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Casting Of "Cleopatra" Angers Black Community

And here I was pissed that Jolie was getting the part, due to the fact that the bitch can't fucking act!

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Just when we thought there weren't enough leading roles for Black women in Hollywood, they create one and give it to a White woman.

Film producer Scott Rudin has purchased the film rights to upcoming biography 'Queen of the Nile, Cleopatra: A Life,' and has confirmed that the movie "is being developed for and with [Angelina] Jolie." Jolie, a Hollywood A-lister, will do her best in bringing the story of the famed Egyptian queen to life, and it appears no one doubts she can do it... including Pulitzer prize-winning author Stacy Schiff, who penned the biography, "Cleopatra: A Life," a book that won't be on shelves until the fall.

Schiff already heavily endorses Jolie, stating, "I think she'd be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future. Physically, she's got the perfect look."

Gasp, the nerve! "She's got the perfect look?" Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman. I mean, isn't it enough that 47 years ago, dame Elizabeth Taylor was cast to portray Cleopatra in one of the most expensive films ever made? That Elizabeth Taylor was actually the third White woman to be tapped for the Cleopatra role -- following Vivien Leigh and Claudette Colbert -- just makes this all the more comical.

Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day? Why does Hollywood think it's even slightly plausible to cast White women in roles that would be more sensible to cast a Black actress for? Especially when that role is an African queen.

It happened just two years ago, in 2007's thriller "Stuck," directed by Stuart Gordon, based on the true story of a Chante Mallard. The story tells a tale of a woman who hits a homeless man with her car and results with him trapped in her car's windshield. Instead of getting the man help, Mallard (played by actress Mena Suvari) opts to let him die slowly in her garage.

The interesting thing is Mallard is a Black woman, and Suvari, who was cast to play the role, is -- surprise, surprise -- a White woman. Adding insult to injury, instead of just casting a Black woman to play the role, the film gave Suvari a more "ethnic look" for the role, by adding stereotypical cornrows to her hair. Hollywood, are you serious?

Now, Jolie is set to play Cleopatra, who isn't as technically perfect as some would claim if you study the Queen of the Nile's distinguished history. First and foremost, the role should be given to a younger actress -- think Jurnee Smollett -- considering Cleopatra began her reign as Queen of Egypt at the tender age of 18 and ended her own life at the age of 39.

Secondly, while historically there is no concrete confirmation that Cleopatra was of a darker complexion, there is more evidence than not that she was Black, and not entirely of Macedonian Greek ancestry, as Shakespeare, leagues of painters and now Hollywood would have us believe. And, ultimately, while Cleopatra's heritage remains under speculation, it remains that she was in fact an African queen. Jolie -- not so perfect.

What's next? A biopic on Sojourner Truth played by Betty White?

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by Anonymousreply 384October 29, 2014 5:45 AM

Fuck! That part was MINE.

by Anonymousreply 1November 19, 2010 10:10 AM

[quote]there is more evidence than not that she was Black, Such as?

by Anonymousreply 2November 19, 2010 10:11 AM

[quote]I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman. She may as well be bitching that the role should have gone to Lucy Lui. Cleopatra wasn't black. Egyptians weren't even black, and Cleopatra was no Eqyptian.

by Anonymousreply 3November 19, 2010 10:14 AM

Angelina does not look like a typical Caucasian,she has white skin but she looks quiet exotic.

by Anonymousreply 4November 19, 2010 10:18 AM

Are these blacks fucking stupid?? Cleopatra was GREEK. She was the queen of egypt because Greece had colonies there. Cleopatra in Greek means New City'

by Anonymousreply 5November 19, 2010 10:34 AM

Who the hell wants to see the awful Halle Berry in this? Jolie will do her usual shtick:pursed lips, raised eyebrow, that stupid accent she does when she's playing some woman of mystery and the general all around look of constipation.

by Anonymousreply 6November 19, 2010 10:42 AM

Angelina looks like her german-american blue eyed blond father. And exotic? Depends on where you live in the world and what you usually see on the street and in everyday life, any race and ethnicity could possibly be considered exotic. Angelina is not mixed and and in my opinion doesnt look it, IF Cleopatra truly was mixed shes a bad choice for the role indeed.

by Anonymousreply 7November 19, 2010 10:43 AM

She was of 100 Macedonian descent. Unlike most pharoahs, she actually spoke Egyptian - and 8 other languages. Not one drop of black blood. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 8November 19, 2010 11:01 AM

It's not racist to be truthful about a historical figure. Cleopatra, not negro. But the coins with her on them show she was not pretty, but pretty fug.

by Anonymousreply 9November 19, 2010 11:06 AM

Why do blacks keep trying to claim her?

by Anonymousreply 10November 19, 2010 11:09 AM

Sorry,R9 has it. It's the truth. Historical fact not fiction..

by Anonymousreply 11November 19, 2010 11:13 AM

R10, they are desperate to claim some nobility in their lineage. This is unfortunate for an entire continent that did not have any way to memorialize their history. The French cave dwellers and the Druids of Stonehenge left more written records than the entire black/negro population of Africa. It's a vanity thing. If they really wanted to connect with their African roots, they would dump the Southern Baptists and join the Ethiopian Orthodox church, one of the oldest branches of Christianity.

by Anonymousreply 12November 19, 2010 11:18 AM

[quote]Are these blacks fucking stupid??%0D %0D Not nearly as fucking stupid as the white queens who bitch every time a gay role isn't played by an out gay actor.%0D %0D But why let your bigotry get in the way of your double standards.

by Anonymousreply 13November 19, 2010 11:23 AM

Cleopatra VII was GREEK! A Ptolemy!%0D %0D Now, the Queen of Sheba, on the other hand,....

by Anonymousreply 14November 19, 2010 11:24 AM

Maybe they have Cleopatra mixed up with Cleopatra Jones.

by Anonymousreply 15November 19, 2010 11:25 AM

She was a Ptolemy. The original Ptolemy was not merely one of Alexander the Great's Macedonian generals (who took over Egypt on A's death) - the Datalounge of the day claimed he was Philip of Macedon's illegitimate son. If you believe the blond-haired, blue-eyed Alexander to be Philip's legitimate son, they were half-brothers. And no, Ptolemy's mother wasn't black either. While Alexander didn't mind bearding up with the locals as he made his way across Eurasia, in Egypt the Ptolemies took to intermarriage within the family. So the chance that Cleopatra was black is lower than the chance she looked like one of the cast of Deliverance.

by Anonymousreply 16November 19, 2010 11:32 AM

Use a Max Factor that'll make her look mulatto.

by Anonymousreply 17November 19, 2010 11:34 AM

Note to black people: the film and television industry is NOT MORAL. it is a BUSINESS. come up with a black actress who can actually open a film - tyler perry, excluded - and then you'll have something to talk about.

by Anonymousreply 18November 19, 2010 11:35 AM

Gabourney Sidibe opened 'Precious', you racist emeffer.

by Anonymousreply 19November 19, 2010 11:42 AM

Are they pissed because that vapid Beeyotch-ce didn't get the part? As far I know, the real Cleopatra wasn't cockeyed.

by Anonymousreply 20November 19, 2010 11:44 AM

R12, they are simply deprived of the knowledge of African oral and art history, having grown up in a Euro-centric society.

R20, you made me laugh (shamefully).

by Anonymousreply 21November 19, 2010 11:52 AM

Well, yes and no, R19. When Precious went wide after two weeks of limited release, it did gross just over $10 M that weekend on only 629 screens. Whether anyone attributes that directly to the "star power" of the completely unknown Sidibe...I'm not so sure. Great reviews, good marketing and awareness of the book were probably bigger factors. Of course, the film dropped off dramatically after that weekend but performed well enough for a low-budget indie.%0D %0D In the '90s, to open a film, a star had to pull at least 10 M in the opening weekend - the thought then was that they did their job, they got bums on seats, the rest was up to the studio. I don't know if 10 M would cut it nowadays.%0D %0D Again, it's not MORAL. It's a BUSINESS. If there were a black actress who could open a film, she'd be in the running to play Cleopatra. Salt had a 36 M opening weekend and was basically sold on Jolie. What black actress in Hollywood can do that?

by Anonymousreply 22November 19, 2010 11:59 AM

Not many people know, but Alexander the great was actually Irish.

by Anonymousreply 23November 19, 2010 12:23 PM

Cleopatra was Greek peeps, not Egyptian. Her ancestor, the first Ptolemy, acquired Egypt when the empire of the deceased Alexander the Great was divided among his chief generals. The first three Ptolemies were reasonably competent rulers. There was never any doubt that the rulers were Greek and until Cleopatra VII did not even bother to learn the native language, but they employed enough Egyptian tradition--- to gain a grudging acknowledgement of legitimacy.

by Anonymousreply 24November 19, 2010 12:34 PM

Black actresses aren't given nearly as many opportunities to open movies R22. And they certainly aren't given the opportunities that their inferior white counterparts are given. You think a black actress could have Jennifer Aniston or Kate Hudson's career at this point? Please. They'd have gotten the pink slip years ago after the first flop.%0D %0D And Beyonce has opened movies on her own. "Obsessed" was a big hit. She's on average with Jolie as each having one movie that they can legitmitally claim they opened on their own name.

by Anonymousreply 25November 19, 2010 12:35 PM

I'm surprised that a Blacktress wasn't cast.

by Anonymousreply 26November 19, 2010 12:41 PM

Well R26 - again, it's a BUSINESS. Very few people are handed the responsibility of opening such a costly enterprise. While you're correct to mention Beyonce in Obsessed, the truth is that was a genre picture - it was the twist on the genre that sold it. Also, it didn't break the 100 M mark. It's impressive for her but she didn't even get top billing - she shared space above the title with Idris Elba and Ali Larter.%0D %0D If you were producing a film of Cleopatra, which will obviously be budgeted at 100 M or more, the Obsessed numbers aren't exactly going to convince your investors. More often than not, Beyonce's appearances on screen have resulted in little box office action.%0D %0D Angelina Jolie has a box office record dating back to the Tomb Raider pictures. She is a proven female action star.

by Anonymousreply 27November 19, 2010 12:56 PM

It is historical fact that Cleopatra was of 100% Macedonian Greek lineage, therefore she was Caucasian.

by Anonymousreply 28November 19, 2010 1:14 PM

Cleopatra%0D %0D was%0D %0D Greek.

by Anonymousreply 29November 19, 2010 1:17 PM

Many blacks like to lay claim to Cleo because so many LaTonyas/Shaniqua/Ebony Princess' love to say they were Cleo in a past life.

by Anonymousreply 30November 19, 2010 1:19 PM

What idiocy. Cleopatra was Greek. She was not black. So why should she be played by a black actress? I suppose the writer at Essence also believes that Jesus Christ was black and that Denzel Washington would be perfect to play him in a bio-pic.

by Anonymousreply 31November 19, 2010 1:21 PM

Ptolomeys married their siblings. Cleopatra had been married to BOTH of her brothers.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 32November 19, 2010 1:22 PM

She was not a pretty woman but supposedly very charming, with a delightful voice and extremely well educated for her time and spoke several languages.

by Anonymousreply 33November 19, 2010 2:12 PM

Supposedly murdered her brother/husband but who knows. Women back then were demonized if they had power.

by Anonymousreply 34November 19, 2010 2:15 PM

[quote] Use a Max Factor that'll make her look mulatto That would be Max Factor Light Egyptian

by Anonymousreply 35November 19, 2010 2:23 PM

R13= false equivalency troll.%0D %0D Cleopatra wasn't black. I absolutely do not understand this nonsense. If it was historically ambiguous, that would be one thing. But there's absolutely no ambiguity about this.

by Anonymousreply 36November 19, 2010 2:29 PM

One columnist in one magazine complains about the casting (and interviews a couple of likeminded fools), but all of a sudden "the Black Community" is "angered?" There was more anger among black people when Essence chose a white woman as its Fashion Director. Which is to say, not much. All that shit gets overblown and amplified like PCR does with a tiny sample of DNA.

by Anonymousreply 37November 19, 2010 3:52 PM

Jolie's age is more of a problem than her race. She could only play Cleo at the end of her career, not as the teenager who fucked Julius Caesar and who grabbed the throne from her pubescent brother/husband. %0D %0D And then there's the six kids. This is a role for a very sexy woman, and straight men don't lust after women with six kids. And can you imagine seeing a woman who french-kisses her brother and who has six kids being married to her underage brother on screen? Ew.

by Anonymousreply 38November 19, 2010 3:54 PM

What r37 said! It's like most things in the media: A tempest in a teapot.

by Anonymousreply 39November 19, 2010 3:59 PM

"Cleopatra was Greek."%0D %0D I'm ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille.

by Anonymousreply 40November 19, 2010 4:00 PM

"Cleopatra" in Greek means "Her Father's Glory," r5.

by Anonymousreply 41November 19, 2010 4:02 PM

Thanks, R37. Exactly.

by Anonymousreply 42November 19, 2010 4:03 PM

While Cleopatra was not black, are you an idiot, R3? Egyptians weren't black? Do you also believe Jesus was white?

by Anonymousreply 43November 19, 2010 4:08 PM

According to (white) anthropologists/scientists, who make up the rules about such things, *everybody* is white except Sub-Saharan blacks. Quite ridiculous when you think about it.

by Anonymousreply 44November 19, 2010 4:13 PM

White actresses are given all the good roles. Zoe Saldana, Rosario Dawson, Thandie Newton. All have claimed they are told they are to ethnic or urban.

I think the casting of a White actress for Cleopatra (although correct) has more to do with the fact that some are frustrated with racist Hollywood.

Hell, Jolie played the bi-racial Mariannne Pearl when that role should have gone to someone else. Talk about ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 45November 19, 2010 4:15 PM

Alexander's hair was brown, not blond. The Greeks called brown hair blond. You can see Alexander's actual hair color in the mosaic of the Battle of Issus in the House of the Faun at Pompeii.

by Anonymousreply 46November 19, 2010 4:15 PM

Why can't they settle for Aida?

by Anonymousreply 47November 19, 2010 4:17 PM

Egyptians are not black. The Nubians in the south are black. They face discrimination from the majority. Even if Cleopatra had not been Greek, she would not have been black.

by Anonymousreply 49November 19, 2010 4:19 PM

R48 is the same freeper all over the DL today.

by Anonymousreply 50November 19, 2010 4:23 PM

Do these guys look black-African? I mean, look at those flat butts!%0D %0D Although I can't say they look particularly "white", either.

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by Anonymousreply 51November 19, 2010 4:33 PM

R51--that shows a mix of Egyptians and Nubians and the Nubians do look black.

by Anonymousreply 52November 19, 2010 4:35 PM

"again, it's a BUSINESS"%0D %0D %0D It's a RACIST business. You can't say African American women aren't bankable when they hardly even get the opportunities to prove themselves that whites get. And the few that do get them are judged held to more stringent standards than their white counterparts.%0D %0D Look at the alleged "Box office queen of the nineties" Julia Roberts. If you really look at that track record, you would see that she had a good six, seven years of laying one box office turd after another before hitting paydirt. Now look at someone like Whitney Houston, who had three pictures in the nineties, and all of them were successful. But of course, she's black, so her success is glossed over, while horse face is given more credit than she deserves.%0D %0D And Angelina may be a proven action star, but her dramatic turns have flopped badly, as have her attempts at comedy. And you can easily say that the success of the "Tomb Raider" videogames was a primary reason as to why those movies were so successful. Jolie can't get arrested if she's not in action movie. %0D %0D And Cleopatra isn't an action film. %0D %0D A black woman will never be able to even touch another lead in an action movie, because poor Halle Berry has to carry the cross for the entire community for "Catwoman". That's how Hollywood thinks with minorites.

by Anonymousreply 53November 19, 2010 4:36 PM

Angelina was HORRIBLE in Alexander. She isn't an intelligent woman, she would be totally miscast.

by Anonymousreply 54November 19, 2010 4:38 PM

Right-- being black is what stalled Whitney's career.

by Anonymousreply 55November 19, 2010 4:40 PM

Cleopatra was a Ptolemy (a descendant of Alexander). She wasn't black.

by Anonymousreply 56November 19, 2010 4:44 PM

Who the hell still says "pictures" when referring to "movies" or "films"??! LULZ!!!

by Anonymousreply 57November 19, 2010 4:45 PM

R55 is trying to make it look like smoking crack is part of the African American experience.%0D %0D R55 is a racist.%0D %0D F&F for R55!

by Anonymousreply 58November 19, 2010 4:45 PM

Ahem, r7, Jon Voight may be a blue-eyed blond but ethnically speaking he's Jewish, not German.

by Anonymousreply 59November 19, 2010 4:51 PM

Of course Cleopatra was a black African! That's why they cast Leslie Uggams in "Her First Roman"!

by Anonymousreply 60November 19, 2010 4:54 PM

As confusing as it is, strictly speaking neither ethnicity nor nationality are genetic.

by Anonymousreply 61November 19, 2010 4:58 PM

I have a feeling R54 that this Cleopatra won't have to be intelligent, just cunning, manipulative and a man-eater.

by Anonymousreply 62November 19, 2010 5:05 PM

"R51, that shows a mix of Egyptians and Nubians and the Nubians do look black."%0D %0D I disagree. Here's an ancient painting of some "Nubians", and they are portrayed rather differently. %0D %0D Not that we'll ever have a definite answer, anyway, as "race" is such a vague idea.

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by Anonymousreply 63November 19, 2010 5:06 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but even though Cleo was a descendent of Alexander are we sure he never had children with Egyptian women? I thought he was into adopting the culture of Egypt, etc. Maybe she was a little darker due to some Egyptian blood? Just asking, not trying to start an argument.

by Anonymousreply 64November 19, 2010 5:10 PM

You are wrong, R64. She was not a descendant of Alexander. She was a descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander's generals.

by Anonymousreply 65November 19, 2010 5:23 PM

Sorry, my typo R65.

by Anonymousreply 66November 19, 2010 5:27 PM

Even if Cleopatra were 100% ethnic Egyptian, the Egyptians were not "black" so this argument is completely stupid.

by Anonymousreply 67November 19, 2010 5:52 PM

There is no "black."

by Anonymousreply 68November 19, 2010 5:57 PM

You Americans tend to get into this classification thing much more than most countries. Must be that business with slavery; having to keep on your guard and all.

by Anonymousreply 69November 19, 2010 6:01 PM

Ooh, tell us what country you're from, R69, and we'll tell you how you should be classified too.

by Anonymousreply 70November 19, 2010 6:07 PM

A typical deflection, R70.

by Anonymousreply 71November 19, 2010 7:39 PM

I note you declined to answer my question, R71, speaking of deflection.%0D %0D Where are you from, seriously?

by Anonymousreply 72November 19, 2010 7:51 PM

Yeah, r71: where are you from? Answer the question, please.

by Anonymousreply 73November 19, 2010 7:57 PM

Born in Sweden, raised in both Sweden and France, and now here in the US, dear interested ones.

And no one gives a shit about race like Americans.

by Anonymousreply 74November 19, 2010 8:30 PM

R69 is right. %0D %0D A segment of the US is obsessed with race.

by Anonymousreply 75November 19, 2010 8:34 PM

[quote]And no one gives a shit about race like Americans. Yes, the French famously never give a shit about race at all--what a smart and true observation that is.

by Anonymousreply 76November 19, 2010 8:42 PM

The French give a shit about religion. That's the French. But at least religion is a choice and reflects a philosophy. But it's so cute how you all band together when you're criticized...How American!!

by Anonymousreply 77November 19, 2010 9:00 PM

All of this is stupid beyond comment. There is only one race of humans! Skin color like eye color and hair color can vary, but there is only one race of humans or we couldn't reproduce with one another. There are different colors of skin, but all the stuff beneath that skin is the same and in fact, our 7 billion other people are almost too closely related and this is what is largely responsible for most of our birth defects. Boogies, Whities, Chinkies and Brindles, are all one and the same RACE.

by Anonymousreply 78November 19, 2010 9:12 PM

R57, who the fuck types "LULZ" (other than brain-dead 11-year-old girls)? You sound far stupider than the posters you mocked.

by Anonymousreply 79November 19, 2010 9:30 PM

Cleopatra was not Black.

She was not even ethnically Egyptian.

She's was Greek.

Next!

by Anonymousreply 80November 19, 2010 9:35 PM

R80 = brain dead.

Next!

by Anonymousreply 81November 19, 2010 9:49 PM

Whenever I see someone with a t-shirt with the slogan "Proud Black Woman" and a depiction of Cleopatra I smile. You may be proud, but you ain't so smart, love.

by Anonymousreply 82November 19, 2010 10:50 PM

I think Rachel Weisz would have been better.

by Anonymousreply 83November 19, 2010 11:11 PM

[quote]"Cleopatra was Greek." I'm ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille.

Step aside, r40, you old bag of bones,

by Anonymousreply 84November 19, 2010 11:30 PM

R81=wears a Cleopatra t-shirt

by Anonymousreply 85November 19, 2010 11:36 PM

I can't believe this thread has 84 posts of people just posting over and over again that Cleopatra was Greek. Black people have embraced her. There was speculation that she may have been of African ancestry. Based on this bust, she has some African features. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter what some black people think, as long as you know the truth?

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by Anonymousreply 86November 19, 2010 11:37 PM

[quote]She was not a descendant of Alexander. She was a descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander's generals.

Ptolemy Soter was one of Alexander's generals, but he was also Alexander's half brother. They shared the same father, Philip of Macedonia.

by Anonymousreply 87November 19, 2010 11:40 PM

I so deserve this role!

by Anonymousreply 88November 19, 2010 11:41 PM

There is NO "speculation," r86, about Cleopatra's ancestry. And that bust shows zero Black African traits.%0D %0D Good grief. History does not care who "embraces" whom as one of their own.

by Anonymousreply 89November 19, 2010 11:47 PM

[quote]In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter what some black people think, as long as you know the truth?%0D %0D It does matter, when those black people unfairly accuse white people of racism..

by Anonymousreply 90November 19, 2010 11:54 PM

[quote]Correct me if I'm wrong but even though Cleo was a descendent of Alexander are we sure he never had children with Egyptian women? Are you unware that Alexander was the original Gay McGayerson?

by Anonymousreply 91November 19, 2010 11:58 PM

"While Cleopatra was not black, are you an idiot, [R3]? Egyptians weren't black? Do you also believe Jesus was white?"%0D %0D I believe Jesus Christ was white (he sure as hell wasn't black). I believe that since Cleopatra has been PROVEN to be Greek, that she is not black. I also believe that you're a retarded raving nutcase. I have no doubt that you believe Abraham Lincoln was black too, you dumbass. %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 92November 20, 2010 12:01 AM

That nose and those lips would beg to differ r89. Why do you care so much? She probably wasn't black, but there must be a million other things to occupy your mind.

by Anonymousreply 93November 20, 2010 12:02 AM

Jolie is "exotic" compared to say, Christie Brinkley or Michelle Pfeiffer.

The Brinkley/Pfeiffer look is what most define as white German looks.

Jolie has a rounder face with full lips and is a brunette.

by Anonymousreply 94November 20, 2010 12:06 AM

Damn, this thread is all over the place. [quote]Even if Cleopatra were 100% ethnic Egyptian, the Egyptians were not "black" so this argument is completely stupid. Not completely. Lets say Cleopatra was EGYPTIAN, for argument's sake. Hoda Kotb is 100% Egyptian. She looks just as "black" as Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry, or Thandie Newton. If they are casting Cleopatra as an authentic EGYPTIAN, they should find a woman of color, for aesthetic purposes. That's the whole point of that article. This is what happens when you try to put a single label on such a huge and diverse group. "Black" covers a huge spectrum of people, and some of "black" people look Egyptian. (Even though Egyptians would never want to associate themselves with negro blood.)

by Anonymousreply 95November 20, 2010 12:14 AM

R92 = King Tard.

by Anonymousreply 96November 20, 2010 1:08 AM

Some Egyptians are dark, some aren't. Few Greeks are dark. Cleopatra was of course mixed race, as is Angelina Jolie. I don't see what the big to-do is. If Cleopatra did have black blood, none of it came from the Bantu people who constitute most African Americans since they were localized in west Africa until after her reign.%0D

by Anonymousreply 97November 20, 2010 1:16 AM

[quote]Lets say Cleopatra was EGYPTIAN, for argument's sake.

But she wasn't, in terms of her ethnic heritage.

She was Greek. All of her ancestors were Ptolemies and they were all of direct Greek descent.

How many times do you need different people to tell you this until it sinks in?

by Anonymousreply 98November 20, 2010 1:22 AM

Let's say Cleopatra was SWEDISH for argument's sake. . .%0D %0D As we are inanely determined to keep this going.

by Anonymousreply 99November 20, 2010 1:27 AM

Everything is too specific here. The question to be asked is what doesn't anger the black community. Well, except thieving ministers, sex-addled athletes, corrupt and greedy leaders, and cynical, consumerist, anti-education entertainment icons - of color.

by Anonymousreply 100November 20, 2010 1:28 AM

[quote]Cleopatra was of course mixed race, as is Angelina Jolie.

Jolie is of mixed race?

by Anonymousreply 101November 20, 2010 1:36 AM

Was Queen Heifertitty mixed?

by Anonymousreply 102November 20, 2010 1:42 AM

ON-YOUR-KNEES, JOLIE!

by Anonymousreply 103November 20, 2010 1:49 AM

R96 = batshit crazy cretinous fucktard

by Anonymousreply 104November 20, 2010 1:58 AM

I had a history professor who was extremely knowledgeable on history. It drove him crazy when black people would claim that Egyptians were black. The reason why it drove him crazy was because it was historical inaccurate, and he was a stickler on getting the facts straight. He said historically that is completely not true. They claim that they were black because of their skin color and that Egypt is located on the continent of Africa. He said the Egyptians weren%E2%80%99t black, and there are many light to fair skinned colored people. Also, in relation to any group, they lean more of the Arab race.

Cleo was Greek and she wasn%E2%80%99t that pretty at all. She had a bit of a crooked nose. Also, Cleo was extremely ruthless and evil. She had a baby by her brother, and she chopped the baby in little pieces in anger because she claimed the baby ruined her figure.

Now,the Nubians were black, and the Egyptians had a Nubian queen who was considered very beautiful. I forgot her name. Why don%E2%80%99t they make a movie on her and have a black actress in the staring role? I think it would be a fascinating story.

by Anonymousreply 105November 20, 2010 2:00 AM

R104, you really are a complete moron. You believe Jesus was white and in defending that idiocy, you conclude that it means one would also think Lincoln was black. Based on what, you stupid hick? I mean do you even allow for geography to enter that pea-brain of yours when you say such stupid things? We KNOW Lincoln was white, you inbred moron. Common sense dictates Jesus was NOT white. I'm sorry if you're a racist moron who can't accept that basic reality, but he WASN'T white. There's no way in hell he even could've been white.

by Anonymousreply 106November 20, 2010 2:14 AM

Why do white people always think that when one black person writes something that their thoughts represent all black people - this is not true. The Black Community does not care about this movie project.

by Anonymousreply 107November 20, 2010 2:15 AM

Oh right R74, the French don't give a shit about race? The French have always treated everyone else badly in Europe thinking they are above everyone else. There was the French intervention of Mexico, and they treated the Mexicans badly. The French have always highly disliked the Jews, Oh please! Holier then thou!

by Anonymousreply 108November 20, 2010 2:21 AM

Entitlement much? NEXT!

by Anonymousreply 109November 20, 2010 2:36 AM

I agree with R107. I'm not black but it's silly to generalize that all black people think one way, just as it would be to think that all while people do.

by Anonymousreply 110November 20, 2010 3:05 AM

Maybe they were talking about Cleopatra Jones. She was black.

by Anonymousreply 111November 20, 2010 3:11 AM

Sorry to intrude, but was Cleopatra black? I'm a little unclear on that.

by Anonymousreply 112November 20, 2010 3:16 AM

Right you are, R69.

by Anonymousreply 113November 20, 2010 4:07 AM

I see Miss Sissy Boodles being carried by the neck in R63's pic.

by Anonymousreply 114November 20, 2010 4:17 AM

Cleopatra was a product of at least 7 generations brother-sister incest. The other ones were uncle-neice incest. Not only is it not really practicle to claim Cleopatra as anything other then Greek/Macedonian, I'm not sure why you would want too.

by Anonymousreply 115November 20, 2010 4:19 AM

did she have extra fingers?

by Anonymousreply 116November 20, 2010 4:22 AM

But r94, if you go to Germany for instance, everyone has Jolie's look, with the thicker lips, the jutting lower jaw and lots of brunettes as well as blondes and browns.

And there's always been caucasians with thick lips, I'm a Doc Martin fan and his lips are HUGE, bigger than Jolie's fakers (she inflates them at this point, all lips get thinner, she never had a thick upper lip, just an enormous lower one that has thinned as she's aged and had children).

by Anonymousreply 117November 20, 2010 4:23 AM

R115 Greeks are always fucking slaves, you can never be sure about these things. Indeed, the Irish Firbolgs claimed they were Greek slaves who escaped! And some Irish came from Africa too, they were called Fomorians.

by Anonymousreply 118November 20, 2010 4:25 AM

Ah, the so-called black Irish.

by Anonymousreply 119November 20, 2010 4:29 AM

The black Irish are those who have some Spanish Ancestry when Spain invaded Ireland.

by Anonymousreply 120November 20, 2010 4:32 AM

R118, the Greeks also had a lot more knowledge about reproduction and how to avoid reproducing then they are given credit for sometimes. Not to mention that family sounds like it had enough problems with madness and their metabolism to indicate a lot of inbreeding.

by Anonymousreply 121November 20, 2010 4:38 AM

The Black Irish are more likely displaying the dark features of Celtic and pre-Celtic people, many of whom were not fair. Yes, many are fair, but many are not. Lots of dark Welshmen, for example.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 122November 20, 2010 4:49 AM

Um, there are some people on this thread that don't realize that "black" is function of the color of someone's skin and not an actual race.

People of darker skin had ancestors that lived in climates that demanded protection from the sun's deadly rays.

R105's history professor is an idiot. If someone is from Africa what the hell does the color of their skin have to do with it? The lighter skinned people of the Africa are just as African as the darker skinned ones.

And Cleopatra wasn't "white." She would have most likely have had olive skin to protect her from the Mediterranean sun.

by Anonymousreply 123November 20, 2010 4:50 AM

On a board for minorities, you would think people wouldn't paint with such broad strokes. You would think there would be a special sensitivity and understanding that a subset doesn't equal the whole.

by Anonymousreply 124November 20, 2010 4:55 AM

Who cares. It sounds like a big ol' turkey. No one will go see it anyway.

by Anonymousreply 125November 20, 2010 4:56 AM

A family who didn't want to even procreate out of the family would not tend to be biracial. Cleopatra was the first to even speak the "local" language. Her family was Greek and very into their bloodline, so I doubt that she had any African bloodlines.

That said, she didn't seem to be all that pretty either. Very smart though.

by Anonymousreply 126November 20, 2010 5:55 AM

why is cleopatra supposed to be interesting beyond her ability to learn so many fucking languages?

by Anonymousreply 127November 20, 2010 6:03 AM

Because of her ability to fuck many.

by Anonymousreply 128November 20, 2010 6:07 AM

Well, she fucked the two most powerful men in the world, for a start. Then she killed 4 of her siblings when they encroached on her territory and tried to take the throne, or, in the case of her brothers, put on the throne alongside her. She was not someone you fucked with.

by Anonymousreply 129November 20, 2010 6:08 AM

The Marc Anthony and Julius Caesar notches on her bedpost are enough to make her interesting.

by Anonymousreply 130November 20, 2010 6:09 AM

[quote]The interesting thing is Mallard is a Black woman, and Suvari, who was cast to play the role, is -- surprise, surprise -- a White woman. Adding insult to injury, instead of just casting a Black woman to play the role...%0D %0D The funny thing is, I bet they didn't cast a black actress because they didn't want the backlash of showing a black woman in such a horrible manner. %0D %0D [quote]First and foremost, the role should be given to a younger actress -- think Jurnee Smollett...%0D %0D Well, I don't know about any of you but that's the first name that popped into my head!

by Anonymousreply 131November 20, 2010 6:11 AM

The one thing I have heard is that people don't know who Cleopatra's mother was, nor her grandparents, which opens the debate up as to her ethnicity.

by Anonymousreply 132November 20, 2010 6:30 AM

No it doesn't, r132. As some have only just now started to mention, the Ptolemy family were a bunch of inbreeds, and had been for generations. Cleopatra herself married two of her brothers and her mother is thought to be one of her aunts or cousins. Jolie has a deformed look about her, so she'd be suitable to play an inbreed.

I like the way you say "the one thing I have heard...". Really, where did you hear that? From some gossip in the tavern at Alexandria who claims to know someone working in the palace?

And why was Liz Taylor never such a controversial pick?

R5, Cleopatra doesn't mean "new city". New city means.... Neapolis. It's not that difficult to work out. One could rephrase your question in respect of yourself.

by Anonymousreply 133November 20, 2010 7:17 AM

I feel a bit bad for the blacks, they dont have any history to be proud of. I work with blacks who INSIST that Egyptians are black. I find their desperation kind of funny but also sad

by Anonymousreply 134November 20, 2010 10:33 AM

Wikipedia has more on the theories surrounding Cleopatra's race.

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by Anonymousreply 135November 20, 2010 11:22 AM

"Race row erupts over casting of Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra"

She hasn't even been officially confirmed as having the role, but Angelina Jolie is already receiving criticism over her possible portrayal of the legendary Queen of the Nile.

Jolie, who turned 35 last week, is caught up in a racially charged debate over whether the role should have been played by a black woman.

The Egyptian royal was most famously portrayed Elizabeth Taylor in 1963.

The new film's producer, Scott Rudin, previously told USA Today the role is being developed with Angelina in mind as she has 'the perfect look'.

But this statement has angered members of the African American community.

An Essence Magazine online story asks, 'Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?'

'Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a black woman.'

Jolie adopted her daughter Zahara,5, from Ethiopia and gave birth to Shiloh,3, in Namibia. She also has 3 other children with partner, Brad Pitt. Maddox, 8, Pax, 6, and twins Knox and Vivienne, 2.

'Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day?' the writer continued.

'Why does Hollywood think it%E2%80%99s even slightly plausible to cast white women in roles that would be more sensible to cast a black actress for? Especially when that role is an African queen.'

The film is being directed by Ocean%E2%80%99s 11's Steven Soderberg, who originally planned to turn Cleopatra into a $30 million 3D epic starring Catherine-Zeta Jones and Hugh Jackman.

The casting of Joile has been backed by Pulitzer Prize winning author Stacy Schiff, who wrote the book which the film is based on, Cleopatra: A Life.

'I think [Jolie] be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future,' she said. 'Physically, she%E2%80%99s got the perfect look.'

The original film was one of the most infamous films of all time.

With several delays lasting months due to illness, crew strikes, a change of director and even deaths on set, the movie became the most expensive film ever made - nearly bankrupting 20th Century Fox.

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by Anonymousreply 136November 20, 2010 11:25 AM

I always pictured Cleopatra having that slightly mannish look that Greek women have like Melina Mercouri or Olympia Snowe.

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by Anonymousreply 137November 20, 2010 11:42 AM

Cleopatra is fascinating because of her reputation as a seductress. After all, she did bed and marry two of the most powerful men of the ancient world. She was also no dummy. When she took over Egypt it was a complete mess. By the time Octavian defeated her and Antony, she had accumulated enough in her treasury that Octavian was able to retire the Roman government's debt.

by Anonymousreply 138November 20, 2010 11:42 AM

137 LOL I wouldnt call Tina Fey, Maria Menonous, Elizabeth Perkins, Mina Suvari or Angie Harmon 'mannish'%0D %0D I think you refering to the aqualine nose?%0D Cleopatra was also in-bred, which accounts for her strong features

by Anonymousreply 139November 20, 2010 12:07 PM

Tensions in Detroit are high as the Black community reacts to the casting of Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra. %0D %0D Riots erupted in the Paradise Valley section of the city last night as homes were burned, businesses ransacked, and effigies of the glamorous star were hanged and burned on a dozen different street corners. %0D %0D "I was devastated," said Jolie when she saw the news photos. "One of the effigies had my named spelled wrong on the card around its neck. I'm not [italic]Jolly[/italic], I'm [italic]Jolie[/italic]."

by Anonymousreply 140November 20, 2010 12:16 PM

I think you guys are getting hung up on "black".

Cleopatra wasn't black. Since Egypt is in Africa, lets just say that she was Greek-African. And just because she's from African, doesn't mean that she's black.

by Anonymousreply 141November 20, 2010 1:16 PM

What doesn't anger the black community. There are black people whose main activity in life is to look for things some other race has done they can say was done against their race. Them and the American Indians are equal in that regard. They take offense at everything and it only makes them look like whining harpies.

by Anonymousreply 142November 20, 2010 1:45 PM

r142 if more gay people did the same thing, we wouldn't be still fighting for rights in 2010. You jackass.

by Anonymousreply 143November 20, 2010 1:50 PM

r134 thinks 'Hamlet' is about a little pig.

by Anonymousreply 144November 20, 2010 1:57 PM

R143 when they have something worth complaining about I'm all for it, but the vast majority of their complaints are simply ludicrous. This whole "reparations" thing they've been whining about for many years is laughable. In the end, the only people who hold black people back in their ability to better themselves, is themselves. And no one will agree more with that statement than blacks who have made something of themselves through hard work and dedication like anyone else, rather than sitting around expecting a handout or a "social justice" appointment just because some company needs to fill their affirmative action quota.

by Anonymousreply 145November 20, 2010 2:06 PM

OMG since when did an article from Essence Magazine represent all Black people? Oh gosh. I do believe that the earlier dynasty of Pharaohs WERE Black but I and many other Blacks know Cleopatra was White. Damn you fucking White fags sure like generalizing and essentializing about other groups yet cry discrimination when generalizations are made about you.

by Anonymousreply 146November 20, 2010 2:08 PM

Well R145 hit all the racist buzz words about blacks. You mentioned Native Americans earlier. Care to hit gays and women, while you're on a role?

by Anonymousreply 147November 20, 2010 2:15 PM

"why is cleopatra supposed to be interesting beyond her ability to learn so many fucking languages?"%0D %0D It's not just her affairs with Julius Caesar and Marc Antony, it's that she was the last queen of Egypt. After her defeat and death Egypt became a province of the Roman empire, which was more of less the end of its glorious and artistic civilization.%0D %0D Also, she was present in Rome when Julius Caesar was assassinated, and when Octavian defeated her and Marc Antony it cemented his claim to the Emperorship. So she had a role in both the fall of Egyptian civilization, and in changing Rome from a republic to a monarchy. She was a historical lynchpin, not just a fuckfest.%0D

by Anonymousreply 148November 20, 2010 2:25 PM

About the sphinx from that wiki page:%0D %0D [italic]and French novelist Gustave Flaubert.[70] Flaubert traveled to Egypt in 1849 and recorded the following observation:%0D %0D We stop before a Sphinx ; it fixes us with a terrifying stare. Its eyes still seem full of life; the left side is stained white by bird-droppings (the tip of the Pyramid of Khephren has the same long white stains); it exactly faces the rising sun, its head is grey, ears very large and protruding like a negro%E2%80%99s, its neck is eroded; from the front it is seen in its entirety thanks to great hollow dug in the sand; the fact that the nose is missing increases the flat, negroid effect. Besides, it was certainly Ethiopian; the lips are thick%E2%80%A6.[71]%0D %0D American geologist Robert M. Schoch has written that the "Sphinx has a distinctive African, Nubian, or Negroid aspect which is lacking in the face of Khafre."[/italic]%0D %0D That Nubians ruled Ancient Egypt for a while is documented. I really doubt Cleo was 100% Greek. %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 149November 20, 2010 2:27 PM

[quote]That Nubians ruled Ancient Egypt for a while is documented. I really doubt Cleo was 100% Greek.

So, you trust the documentation that the Nubians ruled Ancient Egypt but you don't trust the documentation that the Ptolemy dynasty was an installed monarchy that practiced incestuous marriage. Brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 150November 20, 2010 2:30 PM

Cleopatra was not black, she was NORTH african. Just look at the busts from antiquity. NOT BLACK. Can't, for once, we be politically ACCURATE instead of politically CORRECT?

by Anonymousreply 151November 20, 2010 2:33 PM

Here's where the scholars seem to agree: Cleopatra was the last in a line of Ptolemies--Macedonian Greeks--who ruled Egypt from the death of Alexander the Great in 305 B.C. until Antony's defeat in the battle of Actium in 31 B.C. The Ptolemies, as was the custom, were an incestuous, intermarrying breed (they were concerned about preserving the royal bloodline). But they took their pleasure with the courtiers and concubines who filled their palaces. Many of the children born of these assignations were bestowed a place in the royal lineage despite their dubious--and unspoken--parentage.

Many believe that Cleopatra's father was the product of such a union--his mother may have been a concubine from Nubia or Alexandria. Lending credence to this theory is the fact that Cleopatra's bond to the people of Egypt seemed greater than those of her Ptolemic ancestors, who aligned themselves culturally and linguistically with Greece. "Far more than her predecessors, [Cleopatra] made an effort to learn Egyptian and was very savvy about presenting herself as Egyptian to the people that she ruled," says Molly Levine, a professor of Egyptology in the classics department at Howard University.

So it seems that Cleopatra may have had a true Egyptian (as opposed to Macedonian-Greek) grandmother. Does that make her "Black?" It is a question the organizers of the Field Museum's exhibit wanted to tackle head-on.

"It is a question that is nearly impossible to answer," says Ben Bronson, the museum's curator of Asian archeology and ethnology. "What we've tried to do is narrow down the range of possibilities for her ancestry. And when you do that, you see that there is a perfectly good chance that Cleopatra was an African Egyptian. Was she 100 percent African, meaning was her skin dark? Probably not. The Romans, who wrote extensively about her, probably would have noted that. But it is quite possible--given the comings and goings of people in the Ptolemic court--that she was a mixed-race Egyptian."

Yet, even an answer as hedged as that raises hackles in the scholarly community, where discussions of Cleopatra's race are so couched and guarded that professors even fear engaging in the discussion publicly. One Black classics professor, who asked not to be identified for fear of reprisals, questioned why Cleopatra's race is of any significance in the first place. "Cleopatra is singled out not because she was Egypt's greatest queen (far from it, impressive though she is), but because she is the one who was admired by Europeans (Caesar and Antony) and is the, most famous "ancient Egyptian" in the Western tradition. So the question itself is really profoundly Eurocentric, and, as such, a political question rather than a historical one."

by Anonymousreply 152November 20, 2010 2:37 PM

since, many ancient Egyptians were/are not black, and Cleopatra was Greek, what the fuck is this all about?

Since she was Greek, the only person I know who should be angry about this casting is..... you guessed it..... Jennifer Aniston.

by Anonymousreply 153November 20, 2010 3:04 PM

Cleopatra was fugly!

I will never understand all the raving about her supposed beauty.

Nefertiti was the real beauty.

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by Anonymousreply 154November 20, 2010 5:56 PM

r153, you're a dumbass, the Ancient Egyptians WERE Black! It is so blatant in the texts and hieroglyphs that it's laughable how you whites want to rewrite history. The Ptolemies weren;t Black, however the other dynasties were

by Anonymousreply 155November 20, 2010 6:15 PM

a black egyptian queen

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by Anonymousreply 156November 20, 2010 6:16 PM

black egyptian queens

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by Anonymousreply 157November 20, 2010 6:24 PM

Janet Jackson's agent needs to do his thing.

by Anonymousreply 158November 20, 2010 6:52 PM

teehee r157!

by Anonymousreply 159November 20, 2010 6:53 PM

It is interesting how a magazine with about .008 percent of readership amongst blacks is considered "the black community."

by Anonymousreply 160November 20, 2010 7:21 PM

once you go black, you never go back

by Anonymousreply 161November 20, 2010 7:24 PM

The actress who played Cleopatra in "Rome" was white; I didn't hear any complaints then.

by Anonymousreply 162November 20, 2010 8:22 PM

Who really cares about Cleopatra? Here in LA we have thousands of black queens and many of them claim to be Egyptian, Native Americans and those with vitiligo claim to be penguins. It never stops and "white" doodles make all sorts of claims too. This isn't a racial slur, as there is only one race, it's a breed slur that is really pointless.

by Anonymousreply 163November 20, 2010 9:06 PM

.

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by Anonymousreply 164November 20, 2010 9:12 PM

rather than calling me a dumbass r155, please show me hierogplyphics and texts that make it clear that all ancient Egyptians were black, let alone make the case blatantly. Until you do, don't accuse me of rewriting history.

And please also reread my post. Nowhere did I argue that all ancient Egyptians were white, I merely stated that many ancient Egyptians were white. Just as many modern Egyptians are white. Are you suggesting that the millions of modern white Egyptians don't have any ancient Egyptian roots? Are you arguing that there weren't many ancient Egyptian white people? Because while the images of ancient Egyptians do not blatantly reveal that all Egyptians were white - they do blatantly reveal that many were white.

Why exactly would you refer to me as a dumbass? What the fuck is your problem?

by Anonymousreply 165November 20, 2010 9:21 PM

Republicans race bait, and this is what angers the black community?

by Anonymousreply 166November 20, 2010 9:27 PM

Has the woman who wrote this ever been to North Africa? Has she seen the millions of North African women who are white? And that's not even factoring in that Cleopatra was a Mediterranean North African and her ancestry was at least partly Greek as was that of all the Ptolemaic rulers.

I would have no argument with casting a black actress as Cleopatra or for casting a black actress in any role for that matter. But I don't see why there should be any objection to casting a white actress as Cleopatra.

Now, Jolie's age is another issue altogether.

Why is Cleopatra interesting? She was a powerful ruler, admired as a great beauty and intellect, the wife of her own brother and the lover of two of the most famous men who ever lived, both of whom lived legendarily tragic lives, her life and death itself are legendary and tragic, her leaving Antony at Actium is one of the storied romantic betrayals of all time, and she inspired Shakespeare and Shaw..... isn't that enough for you?

It's also a very ironic question given the huge and inexplicable amount of interest in the actress who is set to play her.

by Anonymousreply 167November 20, 2010 9:32 PM

Elizabeth Taylor WAS Cleopatra!%0D %0D Case closed, bitches.

by Anonymousreply 168November 20, 2010 9:44 PM

With Janet we'd get some songs, and Justin Timmerlake could play Anthony

by Anonymousreply 169November 20, 2010 9:47 PM

[quote]Cleopatra was fugly!

If Jolie is smart she'll fug herself for the role, use a prosthetic nose and teeth, and she'll win a second Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 170November 20, 2010 10:15 PM

[quote]What doesn't anger the black community. There are black people whose main activity in life is to look for things some other race has done they can say was done against their race. They take offense at everything and it only makes them look like whining harpies. Substitute black with gay and you'll see that the same argument is true.

by Anonymousreply 171November 20, 2010 10:29 PM

It's funny you post that, R171. I was just on a message board the other day where the posters were bitching about "the gays" and the fact we made "such a big deal out of nothing" over that Vince Vaughn trailer. They said they get tired of everyone else having to "tiptoe around" the gays all the time just because we can't take a joke.

by Anonymousreply 172November 20, 2010 10:41 PM

[quote]With Janet we'd get some songs, and Justin Timmerlake could play Anthony She could kill all her brothers in the movie too.

by Anonymousreply 173November 20, 2010 10:45 PM

Okay R172... If people starting using the word nigger like they do faggot in comedies and starting saying "that's so black" in a derogatory way, would the black community be able to take the joke?

Yeah... I though so...

by Anonymousreply 174November 20, 2010 10:48 PM

And R174, when people say the word nigger, do you care like you do when they say faggot? Or do you laugh and say what's the big deal, it's just a joke?%0D %0D Yeah, I thought so....

by Anonymousreply 175November 20, 2010 11:05 PM

Thank you for proving my point R175. I DO care when people use the word nigger and DO NOT just laugh it off. I find it offensive.That's why it saddens me that it is perfectly acceptable to use the word faggot and "gay" in comedy.

Ignorant dumb fuck.

by Anonymousreply 176November 20, 2010 11:15 PM

I turned that fucking part down.

by Anonymousreply 177November 20, 2010 11:22 PM

Oh, yes, R176, I can tell you're so sensitive with regard to use of the N word. The way you jumped down the throat of that racist asshole at R48 -- oh, wait, that didn't happen, did it? No, you were obviously saving your outrage for the highly offensive post I left at R172. Oh, yes, you're soooo sensitive about that N word I can tell.%0D %0D For your information, what I posted at R172 was just a fact -- those were comments I read on a message board a few days ago (the Daily Beast to be specific). Maybe if you'd bother to climb down off the cross long enough to read something other than Datalounge, you'd find that there are many people out there who don't think gay people always have a legitimate beef where it comes to these things -- just the way many posters here don't think black people have one where it comes to this Cleopatra issue. Nowhere in my post did I say I agreed with them, I was just making an observation in relation to R171 (whose point, whether you choose to admit it or not, was valid). There was no other motive to what I posted, but of course there's always a hysterical harpie like yourself who will jump on something and make it into a flame war.%0D %0D Now grow up and please stop acting like the ignorant dumb fuck you accuse others of being.

by Anonymousreply 178November 20, 2010 11:43 PM

[quote]It is interesting how a magazine with about .008 percent of readership amongst blacks is considered "the black community."%0D %0D We get the same thing here on a regular basis. "Why does [bold]everyone at DL[/bold] hate..." %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 179November 20, 2010 11:53 PM

I am sorry I did not acknowledge a post that was made a few pages back that most posters here chose to ignore instead of giving the racist the attention he/she was seeking. Because I failed to do that, that clearly shows I am not sensitive to the use of the word nigger. Riiiiiight. You have impeccable logic R172.

You say that R171's point was valid, but you blatantly choose to ignore the valid points I made. For the record, IT IS a faulty analogy on your part and R171. A better analogy would have been comparing the DL posters who insist that every attractive Hollywood actor is gay or that there aren't enough gay characters in movies and television or that gay characters are effeminate caricatures of gay people.

Unfounded complaints about the race of an actress portraying an historical figure IS NOT the same as complaining about the use derogatory words such as faggot, whether it's done with humorous intent or not. Sorry you are too stupid to see that.

I am sure your motives are nothing but "pure" R172, but nevertheless, you remain an ignorant dumb fuck. :)

by Anonymousreply 180November 21, 2010 12:14 AM

Blah blah blah, R180. You're spinning yourself into dust trying to dance around your own hypocrisy and though it's quite amusing to watch, I'm moving on (and wish you well).%0D %0D Peace out.

by Anonymousreply 181November 21, 2010 12:28 AM

"Angelina Jolie has a box office record dating back to the Tomb Raider pictures. She is a proven female action star"%0D %0D %0D %0D Everything she does outside the action genre flops. She is not successful in dramatic roles. Look how hard Changeling and a Mighty Heart flopped.%0D %0D %0D %0D "come up with a black actress who can actually open a film - tyler perry, excluded - and then you'll have something to talk about."%0D %0D %0D %0D Come up with a non-action film that Angelina did that was a huge success - one where she was the only star, ensemble movies or movies with other big stars in them don't count. This will tank as hard as Alexander.%0D %0D %0D "It's not racist to be truthful about a historical figure."%0D %0D %0D %0D If you are so interested in the truth...why aren't you bitching that Angelina isn't Greek? Oh, that's right, you assholes only attack black people. %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 182November 21, 2010 12:28 AM

"Blah blah blah."

The sound of someone who has been bested in an argument.

I wish you well in return, R172. :)

by Anonymousreply 183November 21, 2010 12:55 AM

lol R5

by Anonymousreply 184November 21, 2010 12:58 AM

R183, when you have to declare yourself the winner of an argument, that always means you lost. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 185November 21, 2010 1:09 AM

Nubians are black but they don't look like African Americans.%0D

by Anonymousreply 186November 21, 2010 3:47 AM

The Africans brought over to the New World through the transatlantic slave trade were not from Egypt. Why should we care who plays Cleopatra?

by Anonymousreply 187November 21, 2010 4:03 AM

My, but that's shocking, isn't it?

by Anonymousreply 188November 21, 2010 8:59 AM

Hey guys! Guys! You know who's Greek? You know who would be great for this! ME! ME ME ME!

by Anonymousreply 189November 21, 2010 9:57 AM

The black community are going to luuuv this

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by Anonymousreply 190November 22, 2010 2:18 PM

Dear "Angry Black Community", Make your OWN fucking movie and stay out of ours.

by Anonymousreply 191November 22, 2010 2:24 PM

I knew this topic would devolve into a race wank. DL never fails to disappoint.

by Anonymousreply 192November 22, 2010 3:41 PM

Just why can't someone make a film about a black cleopatra, after all we dont know for sure that cleopatra was not black,every person who has played the part of cleopatra has always been white, i think it would be nice for once to make a film about a black cleopatra, and i would give the leading role to beyonce knowles, i know she has not done that much acting but she could learn and i think she would be great as cleopatra,and by the way i am white not black.

by Anonymousreply 193December 18, 2012 5:45 PM

Cleopatra was what's now known as Sephardic Jews or rather, her people later became Sephardic Jews.

Babs would be a better choice and have more historical accuracy (I know she's not Sephardic, but).

by Anonymousreply 194December 18, 2012 5:57 PM

But what, R194? An elderly Russian Jewess would be a ludicrous and utterly inaccurate choice to play Cleopatra.

by Anonymousreply 195December 18, 2012 7:08 PM

We know for sure Cleopatra wasn't black, R193. Just as many modern day Egyptians aren't black, either. And she wasn't even ethnically Egyptian.

by Anonymousreply 196December 18, 2012 7:21 PM

F&F for r193 for bumping up a dead thread to race-bait.

by Anonymousreply 197December 18, 2012 7:23 PM

[quote]Cleopatra was what's now known as Sephardic Jews or rather, her people later became Sephardic Jews

link.

by Anonymousreply 198December 18, 2012 7:23 PM

I just find it irksome that Jolie would be cast at all. There should be a great movie or miniseries about Cleopatra, but casting this doofus, who we are meant to believe is some temptress, is wrong-headed. Movies now should focus on stories, not these ersatz stars.

by Anonymousreply 199December 18, 2012 7:25 PM

Cleopatra of Jerusalem

Queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt

Two different people.

by Anonymousreply 200December 18, 2012 7:26 PM

I'm pretty sure Cleopatra Jones was black.

by Anonymousreply 201December 18, 2012 7:28 PM

As long as we've revived a two-year-old thread, I have to ask...

WTF happened to this movie? It's been two years, and it hasn't been released, and I haven't heard anything about shooting. Is it still in development hell?

by Anonymousreply 202December 18, 2012 7:36 PM

It's shocking how little research these people did, it would have been easy enough.

Anyway here is a silver coin minted by the Eastern Roman Empire (circa 32 bce). You can plainly see by this and other likenesses of her that she was not African, nor was she beautiful.

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by Anonymousreply 203December 18, 2012 7:43 PM

If the documentary about the skeleton of the believed to be her half sister is correct with the facial reconstruction, then either Shobna Gulati or Stacy Solomon from the UK would be the nearest physical fit for Cleopatra. Now if something could be done about theirs now?...

by Anonymousreply 204December 18, 2012 8:12 PM

For Christ's sake, go to Alexandria, and you will see that people come in all complexions and black women are far from a majority. And then of course there is the inconvenient truth that Cleopatra was a Ptolemy and the Ptolemies were Greek, not Egyptian, and that they generally married their relatives, who were also Ptolemies and therefore also Greek.

And not just Greek, Macedonian. Macedonians are, by and large, white people.

by Anonymousreply 205December 18, 2012 8:12 PM

[quote]Cleopatra was what's now known as Sephardic Jews or rather, her people later became Sephardic Jews.

God damn it.

by Anonymousreply 206December 18, 2012 8:20 PM

What morons. Cleopatra was ethnically Greek.

And I'll never understand the idea that ancient Egyptians should be portrayed as having sub-Saharan African ancestry. Ancient Egyptians were no more "black" than modern Egyptians. They were Arab-Caucasian then just as they are now. They looked a lot more like Angelina Jolie than any black person.

by Anonymousreply 207December 18, 2012 8:23 PM

Cleopatra was not a Sephardic Jew. She was not a Jew at all, least of all a Sephardic Jew. There were no Sephardic Jews at the time. And among her people, well, of course some of them may have converted to Judaism at some point and ended up in Spain (in Hebrew, Sepharad); but that can be said of just about any 1st century Mediterranean person.

by Anonymousreply 208December 18, 2012 8:23 PM

r208, people are trying to claim that Cleopatra of Jerusalem was Cleopatra of Egypt. It's Jews who are linking the two. Like blacks, everyone wants to claim she was one of their own. Honestly, we already know she was an ugly broad. Why on Earth would anyone want to claim her now?

by Anonymousreply 209December 18, 2012 8:27 PM

It's been confirmed that Cleopatra of Jerusalem was indeed Cleopatra of Egypt.

No, I don't have a 'link,' but all the girls over at Manhattan Bagel know it's true.

Let's start a petition to have Barbra play Cleo!

by Anonymousreply 210December 18, 2012 8:30 PM

[quote] They were Arab-Caucasian then just as they are now.

There were probably some Arabs there, but the Arab Conquest wasn't until the 7th century C.E.

by Anonymousreply 211December 18, 2012 8:30 PM

[quote] They were Arab-Caucasian

I know you're trying to say they were white-ish, but to use a more correct description, they were an Afro-Asiatic people like the neighboring Semites (which includes Arabs and Jews).

Their descendants are the Coptic Orthodox Christians, and the Ancient Egyptian language continued (as Coptic) to be used as a vernacular alongside Arabic until the 17th century. Coptic is still the liturgical language of Egyptian Christians.

by Anonymousreply 212December 18, 2012 8:31 PM

Cleopatra of Jerusalem wasn't a Sephardic Jew, either. ***Sephardic Jews were Jews who lived in and were expelled from Spain and Portugal.**

**In 1492.**

by Anonymousreply 213December 18, 2012 8:32 PM

[quote]Let's start a petition to have Barbra play Cleo!

Why? Has Betty Bacall retired from acting?

by Anonymousreply 214December 18, 2012 8:35 PM

Damn, she was quite ugly if the artisans who cast those coins were skillful. The nose and chin are ghastly on the Wicked Witch of the East scale. She does look like Margaret Hamilton, only with a bushier brow.

by Anonymousreply 215December 18, 2012 8:36 PM

[quote]Cleopatra VII Philopator (Ancient Greek: Κλεοπάτρα Φιλοπάτωρ; Late 69 BC[1] – August 12, 30 BC), known to history as Cleopatra,[2][3] was the last pharaoh of Ancient Egypt.

She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a family of Greek[4][5][6][7][8][9] origin that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's death during the Hellenistic period. The Ptolemies, throughout their dynasty, spoke Greek[10] and refused to speak Egyptian, which is the reason that Greek as well as Egyptian languages were used on official court documents such as the Rosetta Stone.[11] By contrast, Cleopatra did learn to speak Egyptian and represented herself as the reincarnation of an Egyptian goddess, Isis

Yep Greek.

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by Anonymousreply 216December 18, 2012 8:51 PM

[quote]Cleopatra VII Philopator (Ancient Greek: Κλεοπάτρα Φιλοπάτωρ; Late 69 BC[1] – August 12, 30 BC), known to history as Cleopatra,[2][3] was the last pharaoh of Ancient Egypt. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a family of Greek[4][5][6][7][8][9] origin that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's death during the Hellenistic period. The Ptolemies, throughout their dynasty, spoke Greek[10] and refused to speak Egyptian, which is the reason that Greek as well as Egyptian languages were used on official court documents such as the Rosetta Stone.[11] By contrast, Cleopatra did learn to speak Egyptian and represented herself as the reincarnation of an Egyptian goddess, Isis

Yep Greek.

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by Anonymousreply 217December 18, 2012 9:39 PM

How about this, Jolie plays Cleopatra of Egypt and Angela Bassett plays Cleopatra of Jerusalem and we call it a day.

by Anonymousreply 218December 18, 2012 10:01 PM

[quote]It's been confirmed that Cleopatra of Jerusalem was indeed Cleopatra of Egypt.

No, hon, but lol to the rest of your post.

by Anonymousreply 219December 18, 2012 10:01 PM

Judging by the coins found in the past few years, Cleo was definitely NOT black. She was no Liz Taylor either but that's a whole different issue.

by Anonymousreply 220December 18, 2012 10:06 PM

It doesn't "anger the black community". The vast majority of the community doesn't give a fuck. Sure, it angers some, and there are vocal opponents of the casting of Jolie, but as a broad, defining issue of the black community, please.

by Anonymousreply 221December 18, 2012 10:11 PM

So who are all the angry black people? Most blacks have no idea this film is even being made.We as a community have other things to worry about like poverty,joblessness, crime and many other issues that are important to us. We don't care about hollyweird and the silly movies made by zionist. Blacks didn't care when Elizabeth Taylor was originally cast and we certainly don't give a rats ass about Angelina Jolie.

by Anonymousreply 222December 18, 2012 10:14 PM

There is a theory that Cleopatra of Jerusalem, one of the wives of Herod the Great was Cleopatra VII of Egypt. But even if that were true that wouldn't make Cleopatra VII Jewish, she would still be the famous Ptolemaic Greek queen of Egypt, who, per this theory, might have married Herod (and then would have also been known by the additional title of Cleopatra of Jerusalem). According to Josephus, the two neighboring rulers may have been lovers during the time she was not with Antony.

While Herod and Cleopatra VII being lovers may not be difficult to believe, it doesn't change the fact that Cleopatra of Jerusalem was almost certainly a completely different person. Had Herod the Great and Cleopatra of Egypt actually been married it seems very likely that that would be a well known historical fact since both of them, and in particular, Cleopatra of Egypt, are well chronicled historical figures, whose lives were well known by their contemporaries, leaving the chance of their marriage (and Cleopatra of Jerusalem and Cleopatra of Egypt being one and the same) extremely difficult to accept.

by Anonymousreply 223December 18, 2012 10:17 PM

I'm still pissed off about Max von Sydow playing Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 224December 18, 2012 10:19 PM

Oh one more thing: according to at least one Jewish tradition, the Idumean king Herod the Great and his dynasty were not ethnically Jewish but rather Nabatean, although he, like many Southern Judeans, may have been practiced the Jewish religion. (in the same way some Roman emperors were not ethnically Roman or even Italian (although they were religiously and politically Roman)).

Of course that begs the question what does ethnic Judaism mean, which has been discussed on DL many times, has no easy answer, includes overlap with various racial and ethnic groups, and, in terms of Jewish origins, has varying theories.

by Anonymousreply 225December 18, 2012 10:29 PM

Interesting, even after I provided links supporting the poster's claim that Cleopatra was in fact Greek – after out of the blue someone posted a supposed Jewish version of it (they could have just done quick research like I did) – the subject somehow moved away from a hand full of (mistaken) blacks complaining about the casting, to Jewish ancestry, and "Zionism".

I've seen this before on DL. I think NOI and KKK are skulking around here.

by Anonymousreply 226December 18, 2012 11:17 PM

With any luck this piece of shit won't get made with anti-thespian Jolie or anyone else.

However, given the arguments in this thread, it's worth noting that in Cleopatra's day the upper-echelon palace dwellers (the palace's many buildings are believed to have taken up a large section of Alexandria) were deeply prejudiced against the non-Macedonian local population. Consorting with Egyptians was looked down on, although fucking slaves of all ethnicities from all over the world was perfectly fine.

Cleopatra probably resembled a Greek/Arab mix, dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes.

by Anonymousreply 227December 18, 2012 11:18 PM

If you look at the profile in the link provided by (R203), you have to conclude that the only actress qualified to play Cleopatra at present is Rumer Willis.

by Anonymousreply 228December 18, 2012 11:19 PM

R226, there are definitely some klantards and white suprematards who post here regularly.

I hope they die in a grease fire.

by Anonymousreply 229December 18, 2012 11:27 PM

[quote]It doesn't "anger the black community". The vast majority of the community doesn't give a fuck.

You mustn't know the black community.

by Anonymousreply 230December 19, 2012 12:44 AM

[quote]So who are all the angry black people? Most blacks have no idea this film is even being made.

Black publications were the ones making a big deal out of this. It was THEIR story.

by Anonymousreply 231December 19, 2012 12:44 AM

Remember the Greeks going apeshit over the gay implications in the "Alexander" movie? This is a community that's heritage had fathers and sons fucking each other, and they're upset that the well-documented fact that Alexander was at least bisexual was included in the film?

by Anonymousreply 232December 19, 2012 12:48 AM

"Remember the Greeks going apeshit over the gay implications in the "Alexander" movie?"

No, I don't recall that at all. And find it very hard to believe. But then again anything's possible.

by Anonymousreply 233December 19, 2012 12:50 AM

[quote] Cleopatra probably resembled a Greek/Arab mix, dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes.

Not this bullshit again. Cleopatra was not African. Cleopatra's family fiercely protected its pure Macedonian blood to the point of intermarriage within the family to preserve the bloodline. They certainly did not marry or breed with the "local" conquered people. Cleopatra was most likely blond, blue eyed, light skinned like many Macedonians - which is what she was. In fact there is a portrait painted after her death by a Greek artist who had earlier painted a picture of the then live Cleopatra and it looks like Cate Blanchett.

So there is no anger in the "Black Community" - just a few ignorant writers trying to get attention.

by Anonymousreply 234December 19, 2012 1:03 AM

They gave the part of Julie in the film of Showboat to Ava Gardner, when Lena Horne was perfect for the role. Ethnically, vocally perfect. And totally gorgeous. .. Thats's Hollywood, folks!

by Anonymousreply 235December 19, 2012 1:08 AM

link to a photo of the portrait bust referred to by r234

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by Anonymousreply 236December 19, 2012 1:22 AM

[quote]..the subject somehow moved away from a hand full of (mistaken) blacks complaining about the casting, to Jewish ancestry, and "Zionism".

There are shit-stirring anti-Semitic trolls on here who are doing this to so many threads.

Grease. Match. Fire. Die.

by Anonymousreply 237December 19, 2012 1:40 AM

Fuck Cleo, I want to see an Hatshesut movie made. She was the queen who took over the rule of Egypt from her brother and made herself pharaoh. The depictions of her at the time show a very soft, female visage with the king's beard. She ruled for many decades and was credited with doing great good for the country. Her successor erased her image from the "list of kings" and systematically attempted to destroy all memory of her existence. She was bad ass and probably liked the company of ladies, although her long term companion and consort was thought to be her head priest.

She is much more interesting than stupid Cleopatra whose arrogance and delusions of grandeur led to the burning of the library at Alexandria, a loss to the world which we can never reclaim and of such depth that we will never know.

by Anonymousreply 238December 19, 2012 1:48 AM

Hatshepsut was a fascinating figure all right, but Cleopatra fucked major historical celebrities, and lost her kingdom and life in a really dramatic fashion. Her story makes great plot material.

Hatshepsut, on the other hand, reigned for decades of peace and plenty, and won all the battles she entered. It's actually harder to make a good story out of someone rising to the top, and staying there, even at times when the movie industry is shy of female-centered films.

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by Anonymousreply 239December 19, 2012 2:47 AM

Cleopatra was of Greek heritage. People need to look up shit before they start bitchin

by Anonymousreply 240December 19, 2012 2:49 AM

Cleopatra was Greek, not black. If I am not mistaken, wasn't this the Hellenistic period, when Greece was conquering portions of the Mediterranean world.

For people of Sub-Saharan ancestry to claim Egypt as their heritage is like me trying to find the roots of my Welsh heritage among the ruins of the Parthanon.

I'm sorry if that hurts, but it is true. Same continent, different peoples and history in both cases.

by Anonymousreply 241December 19, 2012 3:57 AM

You gonna get all the historyless coons chucking their spears at you, r241.

by Anonymousreply 242December 19, 2012 4:12 AM

[quote]Remember the Greeks going apeshit over the gay implications in the "Alexander" movie?

I remember as well. For R233, prepare to be surprised:

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by Anonymousreply 243December 19, 2012 6:23 AM

Cleopatra's mom probably was African--black sub-Saharan African on her mother's side if she and her sister Arsinoe had the same mothers. They shared the same Greek/Macedonian father. Check out the article, BBC NEWS | Also in the news | Cleopatra's mother 'was African'. See the uTube video, Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe had African ancestry - YouTube. Egyptians and Nubians in ancient times had been marrying one another, say most archaeologists.

The only problem is scientists found Cleopatra's sister having African features, but don't know whether the two sisters had the same mother. Cleopatra also had two brothers. And the scientists conclusion is based on African skull shape from drawings of a skeleton found in a tomb in Ephesus, Turkey assumed to hold the bones of Cleopatra's teenage sister, Arsinoe.

Now why would it be important to find out how many African genes Cleopatra's sister had? Would it have any affect on future films about who plays the role of Cleopatra or her sister?

The documentary, "Cleopatra, Portrait of a Killer," aired today in Sacramento on Dish Satellite Network TV from 11 to noon. It also aired back in 2009 on TV stations. See the documentary also on uTube, Cleopatra: A portrait of a killer (part1/6) - YouTube.

Notice how many times Hollywood had the opportunity to make a Cleopatra film and use a woman with an African mother and a Macedonian/Greek father? You have actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra, but not African women that more closely resembled Cleopatra or her sister, Arsinoe in restored facial features, actresses that would have looked more like the original Cleopatra and her sister such as Lena Horne, Eartha Kitt, or Halle Berry, for example. See, Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe reconstructed. | Mathilda's Anthropology.

There was even a TV version of Cleopatra a few years ago played by a South American actress. But why not star an African or part-African actress to more likely resemble a more realistic picture of the real Egyptian queen? Also see, Nature News Blog: Cleopatra: maybe African, maybe not.

According to that article, no one knows whether Cleopatra had the same mother as her younger sister. Perhaps one had an African mother and the other a Greek mother. So if no one knows, it's a guess, based on her sister's facial measurements, say scientists.

A BBC documentary is claiming that the famous Egyptian queen Cleopatra may have been at least part-African, rather than Greek, according to that article. The claim hinges on a skeleton that scientists say could be Cleopatra’s sister Arsinoe. And archaeologists say some ancient historians claim that Cleopatra's sister, Arsinoe is suspected of being murdered on the orders of her sister. The teenage girl's remains were found at an impressive tomb called ‘The Octagon’ in Ephesus, Turkey.

The tower at the top of the tomb resembles the lighthouse at ancient Alexandria, which was burned during the Roman occupation in the first century. For decades, African American women have been vying for an African or part African actress to play the part of Cleopatra in a film or play.

What happened is that Cleopatra's sister's tomb was found in the 1920s. Photos and drawings of the skull were preserved so that a 3-D model could be made showing African features of the sister. But the original skull itself is missing, and only the photos and drawings of the skeleton of Cleopatra's younger sister remain. Three dimensional modeling software restored the facial features to the photos of the skull that were first turned into 3-D images by scientists who restore faces through computer simulation sculpture. The resulting image looks like a black African woman with features intermediate between sub-Saharan East African and southern European.

The Times reports that the skull was reconstructed by forensic anthropologist Caroline Wilkinson, using measurements taken in the 1920s. Why scientists are saying Cleopatra's sister is part African (sub-Saharan Black African) rather than Berber or Arab north African is that the skull has a very long head shape seen in ancient Egyptians and modern black Africans similar to what you see today in East Africa.

Modern Egyptians have a shorter head shape, similar to many Middle Eastern people such as Syrians who have in many cases short, flat heads instead of very long, very narrow heads like you see among the tall African Masai tribe in Kenya, for example or modern Ethiopians and peoples of Somalia. However, Mary Beard, professor in classics at Cambridge, strikes a cautionary note on her blog.

The history pits Arsinoe, Cleopatra's sister as having been killed as she walked up or down the steps of a pagan temple in Ephesus, Anatolia (modern Turkey). She supposedly is buried in the Octagon, a tomb that was found in the 1920s, dated to the first century B.C.E.

The problem is there is not enough writing in the tomb to link the princess to that tomb. So who's in the tomb? It's based on the theory that the tomb represents the lighthouse of Alexandria in shape, which is supposed to symbolize the Roman burning of Alexandria's lighthouse.

The skull is missing since it was somewhere in Germany during the second world war and disappeared in the bombing. So all that's left are the drawings of the skull and face. How accurate are the measurements of the skull by the first excavators from the 1920s? The skeleton shows a young girl age 15 to 17 or 18. But did Arsinoe die at that age or survive into her twenties?

Scientists don't know whether Cleopatra and Arsinoe had the same mothers. All is known is their father was King Ptolemy, descended from a Macedonian general that once fought with Alexander the Great in his Greek and Macedonian military might as he conquored Egypt around 300 BCE. The ethnic analysis needs to get down to the DNA, for example the mtDNA to find out whether Arsinoe is African, part African, or is related to Cleopatra via mother or father.

Assuming, perchance that the sisters had the same mother, Hollywood could do well or any other producer in choosing a part-African actress to play the sister. Cleopatra also had two brothers. But no one knows who the mothers of this royal family were unless the skeletons are analyzed, measured, and their DNA looked at.

According to a BBC team, Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb. Naturally, each ethnic group will claim Cleopatra as one ethnic group or another.

Remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton. The discovery was made by Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences. Sibling rivalry existed between Cleopatra, her sister Arsinoe, and her two brothers. The documentary reported that Cleopatra had her sister and her two brothers done away with so she could be the last Egyptian Queen before Rome took over Egypt in ancient times.

by Anonymousreply 244December 19, 2012 9:34 AM

[quote] What happened is that Cleopatra's sister's tomb was found in the 1920s.

R244, there's a lot off with your theory but the biggest mistake is that they have no proof and no idea if that really was the tomb of Arsinoe. So any reliance on the body found in the tomb is purely speculative and is in direct opposition to the practices of the family.

There is a big political movement that has tried to make Cleopatra "African." History that is tainted by an agenda - whatever that agenda is - will always be suspect.

by Anonymousreply 245December 19, 2012 9:56 AM

[quote] link to a photo of the portrait bust referred to by R234

R236, that's not what I'm referring to. I am referring to a portrait painted in the encaustic technique of a very short time frame that was found broken in pieces on the former estate of one of Hadrian on the outskirts of Rome.

Roman conquerers would bring back the leaders of the conquered lands to be paraded through the streets of Rome - Since Cleo died she couldn't be brought back as a captive to Rome. Instead her portrait was commissioned by Caesar Augustus and that was put on a cart and pulled through the streets.

by Anonymousreply 246December 19, 2012 10:10 AM

R245 Since all historical accounts state Cleo was ethnically Greek, and ancient images don't support the African theory --and her ethnicity is all that that's in questioned here -- I think anything else is suspect.

by Anonymousreply 247December 19, 2012 2:35 PM

From Wikipedia: "The identity of Cleopatra's mother is unknown, but she is generally believed to be Cleopatra V Tryphaena of Egypt, the sister or cousin and wife of Ptolemy XII, or possibly another Ptolemaic family member who was the daughter of Ptolemy X and Cleopatra Berenice III Philopator if Cleopatra V was not the daughter of Ptolemy X and Berenice III.[13] Cleopatra's father Auletes was a direct descendant of Alexander the Great's general, Ptolemy I Soter, son of Arsinoe and Lagus, both of Macedon."

The Ptolemies generally married other Ptolemies (as shown by the fact that Cleopatra herself was married to her own brother). If Arsinoe's mother was not a Ptolemy and instead a sub-Saharan, that would be quite exceptional and certainly wouldn't suggest that Cleopatra's mother was either the same woman or another sub-Saharan consort of her father.

by Anonymousreply 248December 19, 2012 2:49 PM

Her likeness appeared on all sorts of coins in that era, so we do know what she looked like. What color her skin was, we don't know, but she did not have negroid features. Halle Berry could play her very effectively, but so could a white woman.

by Anonymousreply 249December 19, 2012 3:00 PM

She had a big hook nose and sharp witchy chin according to a coin.

This link is supposedly also a good likeness.

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by Anonymousreply 250December 19, 2012 3:05 PM

Why those of African Black genes would consider Cleopatra's legacy as related to them is delusional. Blacks need to stop mixing up race with sharing a continent. Eye roll for decades.

by Anonymousreply 251December 19, 2012 3:17 PM

I doubt too many African blacks care about it. It only takes a few contentious voices belonging to people too lazy to research to create a rumpus..

by Anonymousreply 252December 19, 2012 3:25 PM

Except that Cleopatra was Greek and her lineage was notoriously inbred. The Ptolemies were Greek and at their darkest can at best be defined as 'olive'. Cleopatra VII is descended from one of Alexander the Great's bodyguards. Guess what? He was a 'white' European import and so was she. If op and the rest of the black community did some fucking research, they'd know that by now.

by Anonymousreply 253December 19, 2012 3:36 PM

Here's the reconstruction of Cleo's sister Arsinoe, based on the measurements of the skull that R244 was talking about.

Those aren't African features! Of course the skin tone is only a guess, but that nose? Really, the angular jaw and big nose look European or maybe Semitic, but no way do they look even slightly African.

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by Anonymousreply 254December 19, 2012 3:38 PM

Please get a grip! having straight and narrow noses are very common features amongst africans, just not west africans from which most african americans descend from...most of YOU people do not know anything about either Africa, african people or african history. Sorry sissies, Cleopatra, Arsinoe were black whether you can accept it or not bitches...you fags need to get a life...or a dick to suck on

by Anonymousreply 255December 19, 2012 5:30 PM

R255 the actual history is that they were Macedonian. Now they may have intermarried and had concubines who were Egyptian or even blacks but you are ignorant of history.

by Anonymousreply 256December 19, 2012 5:36 PM

Cleopatra on the coins

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by Anonymousreply 257December 19, 2012 5:37 PM

R255 Why would she need to be black when all historical records show that Cleo was Greek? And no images of her reflect she was African even if some African's do have straight and narrow noses.

by Anonymousreply 258December 19, 2012 5:42 PM

I want big lips, wide nose, coarse hair and skin so black it's blue. Make her look REAL African. For God sakes, give us back our history.

by Anonymousreply 259December 19, 2012 5:48 PM

R255 at the time of Cleo's reign Egypt was no longer ruled by Egyptians. You may be thinking of Nefertiti who may indeed have been a light skinned black woman. Her bust shows a cafe au lait colored, gorgeous woman but she was from a much, much earlier dynasty. Remember the Egyptian empire started by 3050 BC and went on for thousands of years. Cleopatra was a very late ruler.

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by Anonymousreply 260December 19, 2012 5:49 PM

Here are tons of pics of Macedonian Greeks. They all look pretty damn white to me.

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by Anonymousreply 261December 19, 2012 5:51 PM

Bust of Cleopatra VII. Notice she was the seventh. Big honker. If I were black I wouldn't want to claim her.

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by Anonymousreply 262December 19, 2012 5:53 PM

The ancient Egyptians were very similar to their neighbors the Somalis, Ethiopians and Eritreans.They were black people. People need to stop the nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 263December 19, 2012 6:01 PM

R263, I get that you are probably a white moronic race baiting troll, but seriously...Cleo was an import.

by Anonymousreply 264December 19, 2012 6:04 PM

We aren't talking about the Egyptians R263. We are talking about the kin of Alexander the Great who took power from the Egyptians.

You need to start understanding that the ancient Egyptians were basically conquered and "white" Macedonians took the throne. Why is that so hard to understand?

by Anonymousreply 265December 19, 2012 6:05 PM

[quote] She had a big hook nose and sharp witchy chin according to a coin. This link is supposedly also a good likeness

The coins aren't a reliable historical reference since they were usually just adapted from the coins of a previous ruler's likeness. A simple change to make it female is likely all that was done.

There are historical texts that describe Cleopatra. Even descriptions by those who hated her and weren't likely to falsely praise her offer no support for an African likeness. And, yes, there may have been concubines from the local populations but none of their offspring would have been allowed anywhere near the throne.

Though Cleopatra was married to her brothers it was a political coupling not a sexual one. It seems the only ones she ever procreated with were Julius Caesar and Marc Antony.

by Anonymousreply 266December 19, 2012 6:06 PM

Forget it R261. The deniers of her Greek roots are not arguing based on facts, notice no links to credible sources etc... nothing. Just emotion. In which case all evidence will be ignored and they'll just keep repeating the same wrong info as facts.

by Anonymousreply 267December 19, 2012 6:08 PM

"She was a wide-mouthed girl," according to Adam (and the) Ant(s). Does this help the discussion?

by Anonymousreply 268December 19, 2012 6:09 PM

Come on, we gotta find some coon in this bitch if she's going to be one of our ho's.

by Anonymousreply 269December 19, 2012 6:18 PM

Whether she was black or white, Hollywood will never tell a totally truthful or decent story about her life because they are unable to. I love Liz, but her Cleopatra was awful. Claudette Colbert and Vivien Leigh were better but too stagey and mannered and had so many inaccuracies.

And some in the Egyptian Royal family at the time, did supposedly have Nubian ancestry - National Geographic did a cover story on it several years ago. This so-called "Nubian" dynasty lasted about 100 years or so, according to NG. So it's not totally crazy to think that Cleopatra may have been black. I think it is funny how offended some of the white people on this board, and elsewhere get, when anyone is rumored to have black ancestry, be they royalty, celebs or common folk.

Maybe Cleopatra was white, and? I think some people here are letting their prejudices speak for them. It's sad, really. But then, it's Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 270December 19, 2012 6:29 PM

R270 I don't care whether she was black or white I'm just going by historical records. I pointed out that it was very possible that she had some Nubian blood mixed in.

by Anonymousreply 271December 19, 2012 6:38 PM

It's not that anyone's getting offended by the idea of the Nubian Dynasty. It's that we know that the 25th Dynasty, which reigned from 760 BCE to 656 BCE, came centuries before Cleopatra's Ptolemaic dynasty and had nothing to do with her.

by Anonymousreply 272December 19, 2012 6:40 PM

Oh I hear you R271. I'm not disagreeing with you at all...not at all...I just think some posters here equate anything "black" with negativity.

by Anonymousreply 273December 19, 2012 6:41 PM

Egyptians today aren't black, what are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 274December 19, 2012 6:46 PM

[quote]Egyptians today aren't black, what are you talking about?

Egyptians today aren't descended from the ancient Egyptians. But then, neither was Cleopatra, who was descended from the Greek dynasty that conquered the Hellenistic world.

by Anonymousreply 275December 19, 2012 7:14 PM

Uh yes they are R275

by Anonymousreply 276December 19, 2012 7:17 PM

Ancient Egyptian DNA was Eurasian as far as we currently know. African influence has entered over the last several thousand years.

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by Anonymousreply 277December 19, 2012 7:21 PM

Supposedly, when the Ottomans or some other group saw the Sphinx had a black face, they shot most of it out. Charming!

by Anonymousreply 278December 19, 2012 7:25 PM

Jolie is one-note at best.

She'll play Cleopatra just as she played the role of Olympias in "Alexander".

by Anonymousreply 279December 19, 2012 8:16 PM

This racism and misogyny are killing us all. Stop killing women. Stop it.

by Anonymousreply 280December 19, 2012 8:23 PM

I fucking HATE these white racists fags. Seriously? You think all of us Blacks are angered by this? What the fuck is your problem?

While I'm not disputing that Cleopatra was not black, the truth is the MAJORITY of the Pharaohs before the Ptolemys came along WERE Black... don't get it twisted you racist, rancid CUNTS

by Anonymousreply 281December 19, 2012 9:18 PM

Queen Tiye

BLACK

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by Anonymousreply 282December 19, 2012 9:22 PM

Amenhotep

BLACK

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by Anonymousreply 283December 19, 2012 9:23 PM

Nefertiti

Black (looks like Iman/Ethiopian)

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by Anonymousreply 284December 19, 2012 9:24 PM

Another depiction of Nefertiti

BLACK

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by Anonymousreply 285December 19, 2012 9:25 PM

Queen Kiya

BLACK

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by Anonymousreply 286December 19, 2012 9:27 PM

here's a video

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by Anonymousreply 287December 19, 2012 9:29 PM

Exactly, R197.

Transparent fuck.

by Anonymousreply 288December 19, 2012 9:32 PM

Cleoatra.

Ptolemaic Greek.

by Anonymousreply 289December 19, 2012 9:36 PM

You have no idea what skin color those people were. That's probably red makeup faded in most cases.

by Anonymousreply 290December 19, 2012 9:37 PM

"Cleopatra."

by Anonymousreply 291December 19, 2012 9:43 PM

Who gives a shit. She did nothing to advance the cause of black women. Instead, she went cunt-crazy for the two most influential white men she could find and then killed herself when the chips were stacked up against her, ending thousands of years of royal rule in Egypt.

Are we also saying Caesar and Antony were black too?

by Anonymousreply 292December 19, 2012 10:16 PM

We is desperate for a history. Let some famous people be nigras, please.

by Anonymousreply 293December 19, 2012 10:44 PM

Here's the thing R293 I don't even get the great interest in Cleopatra by anyone, much less why anyone of African ancestry would want to claim her as black, despite her documented Greek ancestry.

Why is she so important in the 1st place? I find Joan of Arc and Boudicca far more intriguing.

And I don't want Jolie to play either of them.

by Anonymousreply 294December 19, 2012 11:56 PM

Angelina is too old for the role. Her time is over. Has been for a couple of years now.

by Anonymousreply 295December 19, 2012 11:59 PM

Queen Tiye look SO black! She look like Eartha Kitt!

by Anonymousreply 296December 20, 2012 12:41 AM

Black

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by Anonymousreply 297December 20, 2012 2:28 AM

There is incontrovertible evidence that Cleopatra was anything but black. Did the Macedonian conquerors intermarry with their Egyptian subjects? You bet. All the time. But this most definitely did NOT apply to the Ptolemaic royal family, who were so bent on keeping their bloodline pure that sibling marriage was obligatory.

Sorry, African-Americans. You've got no call to bitch on this one.

by Anonymousreply 298January 29, 2014 6:14 PM

R59 Jon Voight is of Slovak and German descent and he's Catholic.He has no Jewish ancestry.Though he is a philosemite.

R281 The Egyptians were not black. Have you ever seen the Copts from Egypt? They are the direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians and they do not look black.

by Anonymousreply 299January 29, 2014 6:30 PM

What difference would it make if Nefertiti and the other ancient Egyptian queens you mention were black (assuming, for the sake of the argument, they were).

Cleopatra, like all the Ptolemies, was of Greek descent, not of Egyptian descent.

by Anonymousreply 300January 29, 2014 6:33 PM

Jolie is a bad choice because ancient historians described her as charismatic, intelligent, and unattractive. It was her charisma and intelligence that beguiled men, despite by her looks. When I studied ancient art history I learned that coins and busts were stylized and made to look better than the person not that they used profiles from other rulers. I read the National Geo and Nubians ruled for a short time but nowhere in the article do I remember it saying they intermarried with theEgyptian royal family. Quite the opposite.

by Anonymousreply 301January 29, 2014 8:47 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 302January 29, 2014 8:50 PM

[quote]Jolie is a bad choice because ancient historians described her as charismatic, intelligent, and unattractive.

Jolie certainly fits "unattractive." Those bugged out Betty Davis eyes and fishlips are gross.

by Anonymousreply 303January 29, 2014 9:16 PM

R299 "Redheads are still ostracized in much of the UK to this day." No they're not. Stop believing Southpark is real.

by Anonymousreply 304January 29, 2014 9:28 PM

[quote]Redheads are still ostracized in much of the UK to this day.

They got over that.

by Anonymousreply 305January 29, 2014 9:37 PM

[quote]Sorry, African-Americans. You've got no call to bitch on this one

Especially now that the Angelina Jolie "Cleopatra" movie has apparently fallen through, seeing as the original post is THREE FUCKING YEARS OLD!

by Anonymousreply 306January 29, 2014 9:37 PM

Jennifer Aniston is a Greek!!! Let the poor woman have the role. She is so desperate!

by Anonymousreply 307January 29, 2014 10:27 PM

If you want her to look authentic she should be played by a Kardasian

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by Anonymousreply 308January 29, 2014 10:50 PM

But what does the Black Community think about the term "Black Community"?

by Anonymousreply 309January 29, 2014 10:52 PM

She was Greek.

If she'd been black African, roman historians of the time would have noted it. She was the mother of Marc Antony's children (the children were sent to Rome after the deaths of Antony and Cleopatra and were raised by Antony's wife, who was the sister of Octavian Augustus Caesar).

by Anonymousreply 310January 30, 2014 3:06 AM

Polish that Oscar, ladies, 'cause I'm doing my own historic accurate version: Mark Antony She Rode!

by Anonymousreply 311January 30, 2014 3:16 AM

Aren't they remaking Annie with an all black cast? OUTRAGE.

by Anonymousreply 312January 30, 2014 3:23 AM

Dump Jolie and hire Nia Vardalos

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by Anonymousreply 313January 30, 2014 3:26 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 314January 30, 2014 3:27 AM

But Annie was a white character.

And Cleopatra VII was a white woman.

by Anonymousreply 315January 30, 2014 3:27 AM

Octavia, Antony's actual wife and his enemy Augustus's sister, raised them with her own daughters as her own children.

The elder and younger sons Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus vanish from history (they presumably died young), but the daughter Cleopatra Selene was marriued off to an African king, Jubal II of Numidia, and had children by him.

by Anonymousreply 316January 30, 2014 3:35 AM

R317? --> R313

by Anonymousreply 317January 30, 2014 3:40 AM

They should use the new Wonder Woman Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra. She looks Greek enough. It's a better fit than her playing WW anyways.

by Anonymousreply 318January 30, 2014 3:41 AM

Angelina is an A list actor with a proven track record of being able to open movies.

"Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton" are not.

The end.

by Anonymousreply 319January 30, 2014 5:36 AM

Not a fan of Jolie, but she's probably right for this role, if it ever gets going.

by Anonymousreply 320January 31, 2014 10:22 PM

Very unfortunate that Christina Onassis is dead.

by Anonymousreply 321January 31, 2014 10:24 PM

A dormant American blog that trawled a couple of sensationalist tabloids for unsubstantiated anti-ginger stories is not evidence R324.

I live and work in the UK and have never seen or heard any anti red head abuse. Never. It is just not an issue, I can't understand why you are desperate to prove otherwise. As I said before, Southpark is not a documentary.

by Anonymousreply 322January 31, 2014 11:52 PM

Bumping a thread from 2010!? WTF?!

by Anonymousreply 323February 1, 2014 12:18 AM

Sorry, it's true. Cleopatra was not black. She was almost certainly more white looking as the entire line of Ptolemaic were Greeks. They were sent from Greece to rule Egypt when it was conquered. They also ( gross) married each other / practiced incest to keep their blood line pure. She was also reported to be extremely promiscuous and not pretty so really there's no harm done in not claiming her as your own.

by Anonymousreply 324July 12, 2014 2:19 AM

I studied ancient history in grad school.

EGYPTIANS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT BLACK!

THEY ARE ARABIC!

Cleopatra most likely was of Greek or Macedonian descent.

King Tut, Nefertiti, and other famous Egyptians are not black either.

Nefertiti most likely was also Greek or Macedonian.

Just because you want something to be does not mean it is.

AND there were 7 Cleopatras!

by Anonymousreply 325July 12, 2014 2:25 AM

Olympia Dukakis on line one.

by Anonymousreply 326July 12, 2014 2:33 AM

But I want this role!

by Anonymousreply 327July 12, 2014 2:35 AM

Halle Blackberry can go eat shot

by Anonymousreply 328July 12, 2014 2:39 AM

Black Annie is so racist

by Anonymousreply 329July 12, 2014 2:41 AM

Regardless of what race the actress should/shouldn't be this movie has turkey written all over it I don't rate jolie as a very diverse actress out of all the actresses they chose her!

by Anonymousreply 330July 12, 2014 2:56 AM

[quote]She was almost certainly more white looking as the entire line of Ptolemaic were Greeks. They were sent from Greece to rule Egypt when it was conquered. They also ( gross) married each other / practiced incest to keep their blood line pure.

R324, this is one reason Cleopatra might very well have been black (or mixed race rather). The Ptolemaic line was so incest-strewn by the time of Cleopatra's father, Ptolemy XII Auletes, they were not producing healthy children.

Cleopatra, however, was healthy and by all reports highly intelligent. Unlikely, therefore, to be the product of many generations of incest. Many historians think she was the offspring of her father and one of his Egyptian concubines, rather than his wife. Her sister has already been shown to have had a black African mother (sub-Saharan, not north African).

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by Anonymousreply 331July 12, 2014 3:22 AM

And to the posters saying the Ancient Egyptians were also not African, that is just plain wrong, and easily disproved by looking at naturalistic art from the period.

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by Anonymousreply 332July 12, 2014 3:24 AM

Ahem, I meant R331, not R330.

by Anonymousreply 333July 12, 2014 3:25 AM

It's a well known fact that Cleopatra loved chitterlings and watermelon. Hell, she even spit the seeds through the space in her front teeth.

by Anonymousreply 334July 12, 2014 4:12 AM

History is always being white washed. The Ancient Egyptians were black and always have been until the Arab conquest of Egypt. Want proof? Look at the hieroglyphics! Many of which have color, portraying the Egyptians as Black and Brown skinned. There are hieroglyphics of Cleopatra as well and she is clearly brown skinned in the hieroglyphics. Just because factual evidence doesn't line up with your desire to white wash history, doesn't mean Cleopatra was white.

by Anonymousreply 335October 18, 2014 5:50 PM

The "ancient Egyptians" (the pharaohs of the Old, Middle, and New Kingdom) were indeed mostly indigenous people to Egypt.

But the Ptolemy dynasty, of which Cleopatra was one, came from Greece and Macedonia, and were of eastern European stock genetically. They were an invader dynasty.

by Anonymousreply 336October 18, 2014 6:00 PM

"The Ancient Egyptians were black and always have been until the Arab conquest of Egypt. Want proof? Look at the hieroglyphics! Many of which have color, portraying the Egyptians as Black and Brown skinned"

R335, the art of the ancient Egyptians doesn't answer any questions. For instance it shows their neighbors the Nubians (Sudanese) as having very dark skin, curly hair, and classic "African" features; while the Egyptians themselves were portrayed as having light brown skin, Mediteranean features, and straight hair.

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by Anonymousreply 337October 18, 2014 9:30 PM

I always imagined Cleopatra looking like Phalicia Rashaad.

by Anonymousreply 338October 18, 2014 9:33 PM

And here's the famous pharaoh Akhenaten, R335, who came long before those Greeks and who looks about as black African as Adrien Brody.

I'm not sure the ancient Egyptians fit into any of our modern racial categories, certainly they don't seem to be either "black" or "white".

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by Anonymousreply 339October 18, 2014 9:35 PM

In any movie or television portrayal of Cleopatra that I have ever watched, she's always been played by a white actress. Somwhat? I'm so sick and tired of this whining.

by Anonymousreply 340October 18, 2014 9:38 PM

Cleopatra came from a Greek background, she wasn't black.

by Anonymousreply 341October 19, 2014 12:05 AM

Black people, stop playing the victim card!

by Anonymousreply 342October 19, 2014 1:43 AM

[quote]Black people, stop playing the victim card!

R342 How about you stop "playing the" bigoted stereotypical generalizations "card". Why does this thread from 2010 keep getting bumped. No one that I know black blue or green gives a fuck about this movie.

by Anonymousreply 343October 19, 2014 1:58 AM

@341- she was black they have evidence of this that she had African blood.

by Anonymousreply 344October 19, 2014 2:02 AM

@341-see the link

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by Anonymousreply 345October 19, 2014 2:04 AM

Sorry, R335, but the most recent genetic evidence proves Afrocentrists completely wrong. Modern Egyptians share about 85% of their DNA with the ancient Egyptians. They're a unique Mediterranean people, similar to the Berbers, with only about 5% Arab ancestry.

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by Anonymousreply 346October 19, 2014 2:07 AM

Another link for those in denial her mother was black . Not North African either!!

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by Anonymousreply 347October 19, 2014 2:10 AM

why do ugly miserable cunts like scott rudin have so much power in hollywood

by Anonymousreply 348October 19, 2014 2:17 AM

R344

Cleopatra and her sister did not have the same mother, they were half sisters. Even if C's sister had a black mother it still doesn't make C even remotely black.

by Anonymousreply 349October 19, 2014 2:31 AM

There's nothing funnier than the descendants of West Africans claiming ancient Northern African cultures as their own. That's like a Polish American identifying with the Tudors.

by Anonymousreply 350October 19, 2014 3:13 AM

How about the newly improved sexed up Viola Davis as Cleo?

by Anonymousreply 351October 19, 2014 3:17 AM

cleopatra's mother was an egyptian princess and her father was greek.

by Anonymousreply 352October 19, 2014 4:15 AM

R352,

And neither parent was black. The problem here is called Afrocentrism, which is just as racist as Eurocentrism. Afrocentricts steal cultures and cultural achievements and lie and claim them as their own. They lie and say the Egyptians were black. Just like the Eurocentrists lie and say that Columbus discovered America. They are both horribly ractis and ignorant and should not be tolerated. Any black person who insists that the Egyptians were black are holding racist opinions and they need to be called out on it.

by Anonymousreply 353October 19, 2014 4:20 AM

For Sub-Saharan Africans to claim Ancient Egypt as theirs is like me trying to search for my Welsh ancestry among the ruins of the Parthenon in Greece. Same continent but different peoples, and different achievements. So?

by Anonymousreply 354October 19, 2014 4:33 AM

she was not a black woman.

some people should stop trying to say this one was black, that one was black.

Halle may be pretty, but she is getting old and is a lousy actress.

I'm surprised Di-Ah-Hann "I can't spell" hasn't claimed the part!

by Anonymousreply 355October 19, 2014 7:56 AM

Haha so true r350

by Anonymousreply 356October 19, 2014 8:23 AM

Cleo doesn't look like any actress. She has a hook nose and thin lips.

She doesn't look black either.

When I picture Her though I always picture someone that looks like Kim Karshian.

I would like to see Eva Green play her

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by Anonymousreply 357October 19, 2014 1:55 PM

[There is nothing more tedious than a race baiting troll. Except the people that talk to it.]

by Anonymousreply 358October 19, 2014 3:06 PM

R357 I would love to see eva play her.

by Anonymousreply 359October 28, 2014 5:11 AM

"Did this movie ever even get made?"

It's probably still floating around Development Hell.

And I'm thirding the casting of Eva Green. Sure, she's much better-looking than the original, but she can project an intelligence, as well as an exotic, aristocratic glamour that Jolie could only dream of. Jolie isn't great in historical roles.

by Anonymousreply 360October 28, 2014 5:15 AM

Cleopatra was Greek FFS!

by Anonymousreply 361October 28, 2014 5:27 AM

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 362October 28, 2014 5:47 AM

Whenever I think of afrocentrics, that hilarious "spear-chucker" scene from 'Bowfinger' immediately comes to mind.

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by Anonymousreply 363October 28, 2014 5:53 AM

[quote][R335], the art of the ancient Egyptians doesn't answer any questions. For instance it shows their neighbors the Nubians (Sudanese) as having very dark skin, curly hair, and classic "African" features; while the Egyptians themselves were portrayed as having light brown skin, Mediteranean features, and straight hair.

Why does that not answer any questions? That strikes me as very informative.

by Anonymousreply 364October 28, 2014 12:33 PM

R335 and R364 are correct. Egypt was a multi-cultural society, but the ancient Egyptians weren't black (or at least didn't consider themselves so). There are plenty of examples of ancient Egyptian art demonstrating how the Egyptians saw themselves and their neighbouring races.

Here is just one example, where you can see black Nubians (modern Ethiopia), white Asiatics (Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq, and Eurasia)and an Egyptian on the far right. Their language has commonalities with Akkadian language, which was from Iraq, not with the lower African languages.

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by Anonymousreply 365October 28, 2014 10:58 PM

There is a such thing of making your own movies right? I mean there are other minorities who get no attention in this country. Asians, Latinos, native Americans and other's are very few on T.V. Blacks are just the loudest or complain the most when they don't get their way. Just saying.

by Anonymousreply 366October 28, 2014 11:08 PM

Seti 1 and 2 (father and son) were clearly described as having white skin and red hair. The Black American insistence that the Ancient Egyptians were black is racist. It is cultural theft. However, few will call black people out on it. The few who are willing to call black people out on it are deemed racists and become victims of collective black anger. I made one comment on a YouTube video about how Afrocentricsts were racists and then had the pleasure of being stalked and harassed online by a group of about 4 black people. The abuse lasted for months and even included them joining sites I belonged to and publishing my personal information online, telling other black people to go to my house and beat the shit out of me.

by Anonymousreply 367October 28, 2014 11:17 PM

There's a revisionist poster who went bat-shit crazy in the Tutankhamun thread.

They can't talk about it without having a shit-fit.

by Anonymousreply 368October 28, 2014 11:24 PM

I don't think a Caucasian woman should play Cleopatra.

But if Halle Berry were cast in the part there are plenty of people (of different races) that would claim Halle is too light skinned for the role.

by Anonymousreply 369October 28, 2014 11:43 PM

Never, EVER listen to a white man school you on African history.

by Anonymousreply 370October 28, 2014 11:57 PM

A lot of blacks today are just as or more racist than whites. Don't let it fool you... I'm part black and have been around the racist comments from a lot of blacks. And if you are multiracial like myself and don't ignore your European side boy they really lose it. MY grandfather was Scottish and native American. I guess I am just supposed to ignore that huh and denounce my European heritage because of racist "one drop" bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 371October 29, 2014 12:07 AM

R369, Halle can play Nefertiti. However, Cleopatra was white, not black.

by Anonymousreply 372October 29, 2014 12:15 AM

If you look at her features in statuary and coins she is clearly not black. She has a Roman nose to end all Roman noses!

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by Anonymousreply 373October 29, 2014 12:21 AM

And this

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by Anonymousreply 374October 29, 2014 12:27 AM

And this...

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by Anonymousreply 375October 29, 2014 12:28 AM

Never gonna get made

by Anonymousreply 376October 29, 2014 12:39 AM

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 377October 29, 2014 4:43 AM

"but none of us will see it"

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by Anonymousreply 378October 29, 2014 5:45 AM
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