The interviewer kinda goes for the jugular.%0D %0D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%0D This article, like almost every celebrity profile, records a transaction. In return for the chance to discuss her work, a performer subjects herself to personal questions%E2%80%94which, in this case, will concentrate on Minnelli%E2%80%99s relationships with gay men. It%E2%80%99s a difficult topic, fraught with clich%C3%A9s. The air of Sisyphean struggle with tragedy and suffering that hangs over both Garland%E2%80%99s and Minnelli%E2%80%99s reputations has to do in no small part with their connection with gay audiences%E2%80%94and their romantic relationships with gay men.%0D %0D At first, seeming taken aback by this line of questions, Minnelli deflects: %E2%80%9CI don%E2%80%99t know what gay people see in my music. I really haven%E2%80%99t thought about it. I think they see what everyone else sees in my music.%E2%80%9D In interviews sometimes the best way to cut through dissembling is to go straight to the hardest question, so I try that. But after I ask why Minnelli thinks she and her mother both married gay men, she stares at me, blinking, for a long moment, and then pulls the emergency brake: %E2%80%9CI have to go to the john.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D When she returns I shift to what seems like an easier question. Thinking about those parties around the piano she described, where some of the guests, like MGM%E2%80%99s musical director Roger Edens, were gay, it strikes me that Minnelli was surrounded by gay people from a very early age. Yet when I ask how she first became aware of the fact of homosexuality, she says, %E2%80%9CI didn%E2%80%99t really know about it until I was 18, until I lived here,%E2%80%9D in New York. She tells a story about Fred Ebb (the lyricist who, with composer John Kander, wrote %E2%80%9CCabaret,%E2%80%9D %E2%80%9CLiza With a Z,%E2%80%9D and many of the other songs that have become her signatures), who once mentioned that he was going to see a group of lesbians whom he called %E2%80%9Cthe Demonic Eight.%E2%80%9D Minnelli gasps: %E2%80%9CAnd I said, %E2%80%98There are eight of them?%E2%80%99 I could not believe there were eight lesbians! In the world!%E2%80%9D%0D %0D Really? This hardly seems plausible. When she was 15, Minnelli attended her mother%E2%80%99s legendary 1961 concerts at Carnegie Hall, where there were so many gay men in the audience that major publications like Time took note%E2%80%94in an era when many newspapers and magazines kept a strict silence about gay people%E2%80%99s existence. But Minnelli stands by her claim. %E2%80%9CHonestly and truly, I swear to you!%E2%80%9D%0D
New interview with Liza in The Advocate
|by Anonymous||reply 192||02/22/2013|
Leaving aside gay Hollywood and her mother%E2%80%99s gay following, there were at least two central facts about her family that might have given the young Liza a clue that some men loved men. I ask, %E2%80%9CIn your family, was there ever any discussion of your grandfather [Frank Gumm, Judy Garland%E2%80%99s father] being gay?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CNo, it was none of my business.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CSo you didn%E2%80%99t discuss it?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CIt was none of my business.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CHow about your father?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D Her eyebrows scrunch: %E2%80%9CBut he wasn%E2%80%99t%E2%80%A6%E2%80%9D Her voice trails off into a silence that stretches until it%E2%80%99s clear she%E2%80%99s not going to break it. %0D %0D I say, %E2%80%9CYour dad wasn%E2%80%99t gay?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D Breezily, she answers, %E2%80%9CWell, honey, he was married four times. And you should have seen the pictures he painted of naked women!%E2%80%9D%0D %0D Minnelli%E2%80%99s first marriage, from 1967 to 1974, was to a gay man: Peter Allen, a former prot%C3%A9g%C3%A9 of her mother%E2%80%99s, whose pop hits included %E2%80%9CArthur%E2%80%99s Theme (Best That You Can Do)%E2%80%9D and %E2%80%9CI Honestly Love You%E2%80%9D and whose life inspired the musical The Boy From Oz.%0D %0D When I ask Minnelli if she knew Allen was gay when she married him, she says, %E2%80%9CNo, no, of course I didn%E2%80%99t.%E2%80%9D How did she find out? %E2%80%9COh, well, you know, people say things, and somebody said, %E2%80%98I think he%E2%80%99s%E2%80%A6%E2%80%99 And I asked him about it, and he said that yes, there was that, but that he loved me. And I loved him, and we decided to try it, and we got married, and we tried so hard, but then it didn%E2%80%99t work. But we stayed close, always, always, and of course I was with him at the end.%E2%80%9D Allen died of AIDS complications in 1992.%0D %0D Minnelli says she first became aware of AIDS when she invited Rock Hudson to be her date for a charity dinner. %E2%80%9CWhen he showed up he looked so ill, something was wrong, but of course you can%E2%80%99t say, %E2%80%98You look bad.%E2%80%99 But then I began to hear more about the disease, and I called Elizabeth Taylor, and I said, %E2%80%98Elizabeth, something is wrong. Something is happening, and people are not talking about it enough, and we have to do something.%E2%80%99 And so we did, and that helped lead to amfAR [the American Foundation for AIDS Research]. And then it became a movement.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D This was not, of course, the first time that a member of her family was associated with a great leap forward in the gay movement. The Stonewall riots took place in the early morning hours of the day after Judy Garland%E2%80%99s funeral, and though most historians deny any causal relationship between the events, the idea of a connection remains part of the Stonewall legend. When I ask Minnelli what she thinks of that story, she says, %E2%80%9CYou know, I never even heard about it until years later,%E2%80%9D and her friend speaks up for the first time since we all sat down. She asks, %E2%80%9CWhat%E2%80%99s Stonewall?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D To me, Minnelli says, %E2%80%9CTell her what Stonewall is.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D I say, %E2%80%9CYou tell her.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D This is Liza Minnelli%E2%80%99s version of the birth of the gay rights movement: %E2%80%9CWell, Stonewall was a bar for gay people, downtown, and I think it might even still be there. And just after my mother died all these people had gathered there, including some drag queens, and I think they were listening to her songs on the jukebox, and they were sad. And then the police came and told them to get out, and they said, %E2%80%98No, we are listening to our music,%E2%80%99 and it meant a lot to them, my mother%E2%80%99s music. But the police said, %E2%80%98Get out,%E2%80%99 and they said, %E2%80%98No!%E2%80%99 And this was the first time, ever, that they said, %E2%80%98No!%E2%80%99 And there was a fight, and it was in the newspapers, so people finally knew about this struggle. And that%E2%80%9D%E2%80%94here, Minnelli pauses for effect, raises her right hand from her lap, and traces an arc%E2%80%94a rainbow?%E2%80%94in the air%E2%80%94%E2%80%9Cwas how the movement began.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D After a beat she adds, %E2%80%9COr so the story goes. Nobody knows if it%E2%80%99s true. But it%E2%80%99s what I heard. I was in the middle of all the preparations for the funeral, and somebody said, %E2%80%98This has happened, and it%E2%80%99s so exciting,%E2%80%99 and I was so proud, and I thought, well, something good can come of this too.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D The careful reader will have noticed at least two problems in the preceding section. Problem number 1 is that Minnelli first said that she did not know Allen was gay when she married him, and then she said she did. Problem number 2 is that Minnelli first said that she didn%E2%80%99t hear about Stonewall until years later, and then she said she heard about it as it happened. %0D %0D In neither case did I ask her to square the statements. And though it would be easy to speculate, it%E2%80%99s hard to know what to make of the discrepancies, except to say that each contradiction gives a glimpse of how even the most intimate aspects of a star%E2%80%99s life can become infused with legend.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 1||11/06/2010|
Even odder evidence of this fact comes when I circle back to the most difficult question of the interview, the one she dodged at the start. %E2%80%9CBoth you and your mother had repeated romantic involvements with men who had active sex lives with other men%E2%80%94%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9C%E2%80%94and with women.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CYes, but you both married men who were primarily gay. Do you think there is any connection between your romantic attraction to gay men and your mother%E2%80%99s?%E2%80%9D %0D %0D %E2%80%9CI never thought about it.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CReally?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CNo. Why would I think about it?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CIt%E2%80%99s a very unusual situation.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9COh, is it?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CI%E2%80%99ve never heard of or known another mother and daughter who both were involved with gay men. It%E2%80%99s%E2%80%94I don%E2%80%99t see how you could argue that it%E2%80%99s not a very unusual situation.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D Sitting up very straight, in an almost imperious tone, she says, %E2%80%9CWe are a very unusual family. We are the only family in which mother, father, and daughter%E2%80%A6have all%E2%80%A6won%E2%80%A6Oscars!%E2%80%9D As she says the three words %E2%80%9Cmother,%E2%80%9D %E2%80%9Cfather,%E2%80%9D and %E2%80%9Cdaughter,%E2%80%9D she consecutively raises her index, middle, and ring fingers.%0D %0D We both laugh (though I%E2%80%99m not sure why), there%E2%80%99s a short, dramatic silence, and then her attention seems to drift, and she says, without any real transition, %E2%80%9CAnd, you know, the best thing of all%E2%80%94the very best thing!%E2%80%94is when I make my parents proud. That%E2%80%99s%E2%80%94oh, that%E2%80%99s the best thing.%E2%80%9D %0D %0D She speaks in the present tense. Her father died more than 20 years ago; her mother, more than 40.%0D %0D As we finish our conversation, Minnelli says, %E2%80%9CI%E2%80%99m sorry I wasn%E2%80%99t dreary enough for you.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CDo you really think I wanted you to be dreary?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CYes,%E2%80%9D she says, %E2%80%9CI think you wanted to talk about pain and darkness and suffering and difficulty, and I think I disappointed you, because I see the glass as half full, and I want to talk about what%E2%80%99s happy and positive, because that%E2%80%99s what life is about.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D I say that I don%E2%80%99t want her to leave the conversation with the impression that I wanted her to be dreary. I didn%E2%80%99t mean to upset her or bring her down. I say that, even though she might not have spent much time thinking about it, she has played a powerful symbolic role in a lot of people%E2%80%99s lives, my own included. There were generations of kids in little towns in the middle of nowhere who listened to %E2%80%9CNew York, New York%E2%80%9D or %E2%80%9CCabaret%E2%80%9D or %E2%80%9COver the Rainbow,%E2%80%9D using these songs as totems for imagining themselves escaping to someplace far away%E2%80%94a feeling that in time they would discover had included a mute sense of wanting to find a place where they would have the freedom to be gay. The fact that so many of us, at such a young age (in many cases long before we ever consciously understood that we had same-sex desires), made the same connection between this longing and her music (and her mother%E2%80%99s music) strikes me as being meaningful. Because she is in the unique position of being her and has, I%E2%80%99m sure, heard countless stories from people who have shared this response to her music, I imagined that she would have some thoughts about it. And because she and her mother shared an affinity for gay men as both friends and lovers, I thought this might be a connection that she%E2%80%99d pondered too.%0D %0D She listens to all of this and says, %E2%80%9CThat makes sense. I understand. And I%E2%80%99m glad you said it. And, honey, I wish I had more to say about it, but I don%E2%80%99t.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D The next week in a conversation with composer John Kander, who has known Minnelli since she was 18, I tell him how surprised I was that she had given so little thought to these topics, and he says, %E2%80%9CEvery performer, if she%E2%80%99s good, will make you in the audience feel as if you know her. And the fact is, all you know is performance%E2%80%A6. To a lot of people, Liza is a symbol. What she is to me, besides being somebody I love, is an immense talent. What other people choose to make of her%E2%80%94what the audience sees is what the audience needs to see. And what she really is and what all great performers are is a combination of supreme talent, discipline, hard work, self-criticism, all sorts of prosaic things that the people who watch her don%E2%80%99t like to deal with because it%E2%80%99s too boring.%E2%80%9D%0D %0D So if Liza%E2%80%99s never really thought about you, don%E2%80%99t take it personally. Her job isn%E2%80%99t to think about you. Her job is to make a self for you to think about. In fact, if she spent her time thinking about you, there would be no her for you to know. Instead of wondering what Liza thinks about her gay audience, wonder, How did she make that self%E2%80%94and how, in spite of everything, has she kept it? %0D %0D How has she sailed through so many storms that would sink most of the rest of us? How does she get out of bed every day, go to work, and make something new when she knows how many people have written her off? How does she ask you to take her seriously again and buy her new album when she must know that the last time you saw her, she looked like a Xanax cautionary tale on HSN? %0D %0D One could argue that Liza Minnelli, as a supreme mistress of the strange art of celebrity survival, is actually more relevant than ever%E2%80%94in a time when increasing numbers of people are leading ever more inescapably and broadly public lives. As Facebook, YouTube, and other websites soak up our histories and cement our reputations, more people will be forced to ask themselves, How do I keep going when I can never escape the crazy things I%E2%80%99ve done or the bad things people say about me? And given the chance, you%E2%80%99d probably ask Liza, %E2%80%9CHow do you do it?%E2%80%9D%0D %0D %E2%80%9CThe only thing to remember in situations like these,%E2%80%9D she responds, %E2%80%9Cis that it%E2%80%99s all lu-dicrous!%E2%80%9D And, she might have added, if you can do right by your mom and dad or by whoever has loved you best, that%E2%80%99s probably all that counts.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 2||11/06/2010|
Liza? In denial?
But... but... but how can this be!!
|by Anonymous||reply 3||11/06/2010|
Junie Moon doesn't spend much time on this planet.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||11/06/2010|
She sounds like she just didn't want to get into it with the interviewer. I don't think you can definitively say from her comments that she's in denial on a personal level. The pause after saying Vincent wasn't gay sounds to me more like "this is my official story, so back off."
|by Anonymous||reply 5||11/06/2010|
I think she lives in a certain detachment from reality and also acquired a bit of her parents' movie studio induced habit of projecting a public image and hiding the real person underneath.%0D %0D Her sister is nothing like that.%0D %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 6||11/06/2010|
Liza is the best. She's a living legend. Supremely talented. Liza is has made an indelible imprint on our lives. She's the pinacle of celebrity yet down-to-earth and once of the girls. She's just the most extraordinary girl.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||11/06/2010|
Tabloid journalism at its finest. This Gross person (apporpriate name, I bet) is simply out to start shit. There's no respect at all in the interview. %0D %0D I don't get the Liza hate. She's always been completely supportive of her fans and the gay community, and has bent over backwards for them countless times. Yet she gets more shit flung her way than others who get worshipped for doing far less. %0D %0D %0D "the young gays barely have a clue who she is - even the ones who know who Judy is."%0D %0D Please. And how many young gays even know who Dorothy Gale really is?%0D %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 9||11/06/2010|
She is not fat (at least she was not yesterday, not at all), she looks quite well, and in person in normal settings she is quite "normal"- minimal make up and nicely dressed in casual clothes. I see her in such settings quite often. Frankly I cannot reconcile those funny episodes on TV with what I have seen of her in these low key settings. Perhaps she has recently abused Xanax- %0D %0D I agree her voice is gone. But she can deliver a song, or a comedy sketch or song/scene- kind of the way Elaine Stritch does, with timing and rhythm and phrasing and a certain amount of "singing".%0D She never had a great voice, she just acted like it.%0D %0D She clearly is not going to give away a bit of her private self. She knows exactly what is being asked and she is not going to answer it. %0D %0D In that sense she is very very old fashioned. She is speaking to the press and she reserves her private self for herself and perhaps a few close to her. The rest is all business.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 10||11/06/2010|
Love one of the final paragraphs of the interview. Liza is just wonderful:%0D %0D "So if Liza%E2%80%99s never really thought about you, don%E2%80%99t take it personally. Her job isn%E2%80%99t to think about you. Her job is to make a self for you to think about. In fact, if she spent her time thinking about you, there would be no her for you to know. Instead of wondering what Liza thinks about her gay audience, wonder, How did she make that self%E2%80%94and how, in spite of everything, has she kept it?" %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 11||11/06/2010|
Liza may have had her ups and dowsn, but there's never really been any scandal about her. She's incredibly gracious, and never has an unkind word to say about anyone. %0D %0D Watching or reading an interview about her is something to be treasured. In this world of fakers, Liza is the real thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||11/06/2010|
I'd be more impressed if he'd been that tough on an anti-gay Republican politician.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||11/06/2010|
|by Anonymous||reply 14||11/06/2010|
I saw Liza this summer, and the voice is really not "gone." Granted, she doesn't hit all those high notes that she once did. However, when I saw her in concert in August 2010, she delivered and sang plenty of songs in that familiar Liza style in good voice with an electrifying stage presence. She was wonderful.%0D %0D I also met her backstage, ans she was charming, friendly--truly terrific person.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||11/06/2010|
She's a dope, always was, always will be. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||11/06/2010|
The interviewer was kind of a dick--leave her alone, she has enough problems without a journalist going on the attack to try to make a name for himself.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||11/06/2010|
it's an EXCELLENT interview. much better than the advocate deserves.
I would think, instead of talking with kander, the interviewer should have compared notes with LORNA.
lorna knows all about stonewall and the "somewhere over the rainbow" pride flag.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||11/06/2010|
Was it really necessary to press Liza Minnelli on whether or not her father was gay? The interviewer was being a prick. Have some respect. Is there no such thing as decorum? Is everything up for discussion? It's her father. And he's been dead for 20 years. Does the writer really think that she gives the topic all that much thought in the first place? %0D %0D And it's too damn bad if she didn't give the answer the writer wanted. But press on he did again and again. Idiot.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||11/06/2010|
What R20 said. %0D %0D I think the interviewer wanted to be the biggest star in the room.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||11/06/2010|
Why is Liza so put off about her father being gay? I am disgusted by her.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||11/06/2010|
The interview is a testament to Liza's graciousness...and to the writer being a total douchebag. A lesser interview subject may have gotten flustered, embarrassed or told the writer to go fuck himself. %0D %0D Liza is a true professional. We could all take a lesson on how to show class, grace and dignity while spotlighting an interviewer's classlessness.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||11/06/2010|
What a mortifying interview!
|by Anonymous||reply 24||11/06/2010|
"Liza may have had her ups and downs, but there's never really been any scandal about her."
Honey, she was in Betty Ford more often than Gerald.
What I take away for this interview is that Liza is just not very bright. Maybe even mentally disabled.
I always thought she was the type of person who only thinks about herself (as any true star must), but she seems so incurious she probably doesn't even think about that.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||11/06/2010|
"I saw Liza this summer, and the voice is really not "gone." Granted, she doesn't hit all those high notes that she once did. However, when I saw her in concert in August 2010, she delivered and sang plenty of songs in that familiar Liza style in good voice with an electrifying stage presence. She was wonderful."
She was lip-syncing.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||11/06/2010|
R25. Liza is curious and fascinating plenty. She's just not revealing it to you. Her inner thoughts about her father are none of your business.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||11/06/2010|
R26. Liza was not lip-synching. I was part of the production crew when I saw her perform this summer. I would have known. She was terrific, and the audience loved her.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||11/06/2010|
Why so much hate for Liza? Surely there are others who are more deserving of opprobrium.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||11/06/2010|
Liza lived in NYC and knew thousands of gay men and she just discovered AIDS in 1985 when she met Rock Hudson and had to call Liz Taylor to ask about it?
All of her answers are bullshit.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||11/06/2010|
Did she mention that Jack Haley Jr. was her SECOND gay husband?
Does she mention that she's a LESBIAN?
|by Anonymous||reply 31||11/06/2010|
I've met Liza and she is truly a nice person, who never has a bad word to say about anyone. Keep in mind this woman grew up in a different time, under very "strange" circumstances. This writer was just being rude: attacking, badgering someone who doesn't hate gay people. Save that attitude for our enemies.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||11/06/2010|
[quote]Liza may have had her ups and dowsn, but there's never really been any scandal about her.
Miss Fleming, call us when the shuttle lands.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||11/06/2010|
Liza has so many problems...
Read this article:
|by Anonymous||reply 34||11/06/2010|
That guy should interview Jodie Foster next. We'll see how that goes.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||11/06/2010|
Liza is a total whack job and a major phony, and always has been. Totally insincere on every subject, unless a camera is on her.
Try talking to Liza behind the scenes, or in a theater, or on the street. She's agressive and dismissive.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||11/06/2010|
[quote]I don't think you can definitively say from her comments that she's in denial on a personal level. The pause after saying Vincent wasn't gay sounds to me more like "this is my official story, so back off."
So in other words, she's not in denial, but she's lying.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||11/06/2010|
Nothing can diminish Liza's star. She's made her mark through incredible talent and determination. She's entertained millions and reached the height of her profession. She's adored by the masses. And she doesn't owe some smarmy writer anything.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||11/06/2010|
A few rabid loyal queens does not equal masses.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||11/06/2010|
[quote]attacking, badgering someone who doesn't hate gay people. Save that attitude for our enemies.%0D %0D I didn't read any attacks. Do you consider making reference to someone being gay an "attack"?%0D %0D I did read some badgering because once it became clear she was going to go the Old Hollywood "gracious" route, the interviewer should have backed off. He did apologize, but only after she gave him one of those "old school" passive aggressive "I'm sorry I failed to titillate you with dirt" type of stances
|by Anonymous||reply 40||11/06/2010|
[quote]Liza is the best. She's a living legend. Supremely talented. Liza is has made an indelible imprint on our lives. She's the pinacle of celebrity yet down-to-earth and once of the girls. She's just the most extraordinary girl.
[quote]I don't get the Liza hate. She's always been completely supportive of her fans and the gay community, and has bent over backwards for them countless times. Yet she gets more shit flung her way than others who get worshipped for doing far less.
Explain HOW? I've never seen her at the Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS Flea Market. Her back up singer and good friend hosts the autograph table, no less. They could set up a table and charge $20 bucks a signature just for her for a few hours and make some serious cash. If she can't haul her ass a few blocks on a Sunday afternoon, I doubt she bends over backwards. Hell, her sister was there this year and was warm and gracious.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||11/06/2010|
Liza has always been a whack/phony, almost like she was at MGM in the 1940s and told to act phony in public.
R32, people feel sorry for her and few speak up. We all know that Tony Roberts has major problems working with her. How about Ray Bolger? He stated in an interview how he loved Judy but couldn't stand Liza. It was a quote included in a book, I think in a book about Liza, I can't exactly remember 10-15 years ago. What I DO remember is that it was commented upon at length on the radio program I listened to in the morning at the time. Everyone said, "why no one talks about Liza that way!"
|by Anonymous||reply 42||11/06/2010|
R41. So you've never seen Liza at your charity of choice--and that makes her less of a person? Since when do you get to set the standard for humanitarianism? How do you know what organizations she supports anyway?%0D %0D I've met Liza; she was incredibly warm and gracious--just as you say her sister was. Maybe it was their upbringing that made them both such nice people.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||11/06/2010|
I love that this interviewer tried to have a rational interview with the entertainment equivalent of the crazy cat lady.
Even if she wasn't short a few brain cells, what did he think she was going to say?
"well, it's really quite simple, my mother and I were both disgusted by dick, so we married gay men" or "clear as day: my mother and I both inherited a magical faghag gene"?
|by Anonymous||reply 44||11/06/2010|
[quote]I don't get the Liza hate. %0D %0D Omigod, another "HATE" troll at r9. If everyone on the planet doesn't LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Liza that means we all have "Liza hate." %0D %0D No, Troll, not everyone hates her. Some don't like her but it's not your stupid claim of hate, R9.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||11/06/2010|
OMG Madigan's impersonation is dismal. She's mixing up her Liza with her Carol Channing
|by Anonymous||reply 46||11/06/2010|
"Do you consider making reference to someone being gay an "attack"?"%0D %0D I must have missed Vincente Minnelli publicly coming out of the closet. Wasn't he married to a woman? No, making reference to someone being gay isn't an attack, but when that person was not publicly out, it's kind of rude. The interviewer knew what he was doing, and using someones homosexuality as a shock tactic is disgusting. %0D %0D %0D "Explain HOW?"%0D %0D Dearest, she gave her time to numerous AIDS benefits. Back before it was the "in thing" in Hollywood, she was one of the very few in the entertainmen industry who was willing to spread the word about the dangers of AIDS,and who could be counted on to be there when there was a benefit. And when other divas simply couldn't be bothered.%0D %0D And you might want to talk to the people at AMFAR while you're at it. She's served on their board of trustees for years and her numerous donations are well known within the organization.%0D %0D Sorry that she hasn't made it a point to bless Broadway queens like you with an appearance at a flea market, but that's hardly an excuse to paint her as non-caring. Give me a fucking break. You don't even know why she hasn't attended. You Liza haters are a pitiful bunch.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||11/06/2010|
"And she doesn't owe some smarmy writer anything."
Then don't sit for the fucking interview.
But if you are using the smarmy writer to score some publicity to sell something, at least answer his fucking questions.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||11/06/2010|
it is as if her handlers/assistants/"unidentified friend" didn't have the wherewithal to remind liza that this interview was for a GAY magazine, so expect a gay angle.
if i were her i would have said to myself "hmm, now what in my life could qualify as a gay angle? what gay things are in my life?"
but with liza there is no reflection, no self-analysis. it's just not in her dna- what IS in her dna is the uncanny ability to be "ON" under a spotlight or in front of a camera. it's what she does.
oh, MAJOR liza lover here, not hater. but a spade's a spade.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||11/06/2010|
Still wonder why John Fricke detests her so.%0D He loves Lorna but not Liza. Ask him and he won't say a word. I guess that is respectful in a way. To keep mum.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||11/06/2010|
A gay angle doesn't constitute outing people and then watching the subject squrim as they try to answer the unplanned question.%0D %0D The Vincente question was wrong. If Liza wanted to discuss her fathers homosexuality, it's her choice. It's none of the writers damn business. %0D %0D It's like asking Streisand how she's dealing with her son's AIDS. Until the star makes it public, then it's off limits. Any competent journalist knows that. %0D %0D I've e-mailed the magazine demanding an apology from this hack be put in the next issue. And I suggest you do the same. Shameful treatment of an ally by some legitimate gay publication.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||11/06/2010|
I think Liza should discuss her lesbianism before discussing her father's homosexuality.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||11/06/2010|
"I've e-mailed the magazine demanding an apology from this hack be put in the next issue."
|by Anonymous||reply 53||11/06/2010|
Yep, R52, it was her affair with Lisa Mordente (Chita Rivera's daughter) which caused a serious rift between Chita and Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||11/06/2010|
[quote]"Do you consider making reference to someone being gay an "attack"?"
No, it's not an attack. Liza is grateful for her gay fans, and she has done a great deal for AMFAR.
The interview is interesting, because it demonstrates the difference between the public persona and the private person. The interviewer got this, after Kander pointed it out to him.
I'm not really all that surprised that she never thought a great deal about her shared affinity with her mother in their personal relationships with gay men. Many performers are too wrapped up in themselves and incapable of introspection.
Or maybe she wants to keep her feelings on the subject private. If memory serves me correctly, Frank Gumm 's penchant for tearoom sex caused his family some embarrassment. Add to this, the fact that her father preferred men to her mother. And then she married a man, who also preferred men to her. Twice!! Liza's relationship to gay men is complicated.
She was promoting a new album. Doesn't matter what publication she was dealing with.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||11/06/2010|
Someone here has an axe to grind with Liza... This is one of those moments where DL's anonymity gets in the way of what would [italic]really[/italic] be an interesting conversation.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||11/06/2010|
I'm Chita, not Rita And certainly not Liza
That diesel Liza Snorts and lies a- round town And Lisa'll try se- ducing any clown!
I'm Chita, not Rita And certainly not Liza!
|by Anonymous||reply 57||11/06/2010|
R57, BrooklynBoy, dat you?
|by Anonymous||reply 58||11/06/2010|
Somebody's just winding you Liza lovers up.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||11/06/2010|
As I said earlier in the thread- she is quite normal and pleasant in an informal setting where she is not the focus of all attention. She can and is completely honest about herself and her problems in this context.%0D %0D She is well aware of all the issues the interviewer asked, she just does not want to address them perhaps because they have been part of difficult aspects of her life that are very painful to her- I do not know this, I supsect it. Also seems kind of obvious. Nothing wrong with the interviewer asking either. Clearly she has reason not to talk about these issues- reasons known only to her and perhaps a few others. She does not owe it to us. She has done a helluva lot for gay men in terms of charity, not to mention entertaining them. %0D %0D I thought the ending comments of Kander's were facinating- somoething to keep in mind with all performers. She is giving in preformance, all that she wants to give- her version. That you buy it and are entertained is what she cares about- and she is quite good at it. That does not mean that this is all there is to her, or that she is going to share all that there is. Very interesting. %0D %0D I am not a fan, I simply know her in another context and know that she is not what she seems in these public presentations- not that I know her dark side or her truths or her pain. But I know some of it, and know she does not like to talk about it in public or in the press. Do you?
|by Anonymous||reply 60||11/06/2010|
This thread will inspire a LEAVE LIZA ALONE! youtube video with, once again, a crying queen in his basement bedroom.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||11/06/2010|
The psychology isn't that tough, even if Liza didn't want to go there--Judy adored her father, who was gay, and was drawn to men like him. Probably the same thing happened to Liza. The fact that Judy and Liza are gay icons and were surrounded by gay men through-out their careers complicates matters.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||11/06/2010|
There have always been a few bitter Judy trolls who can't stand Liza because she reaped the rewards that Judy unfortunately never got. She has also greatly distanced herself from the Garland legacy, which also infuriates them. %0D %0D They can tolerate Lorna because after her brief attempt at a minor career folded, she has made a living feeding off the memory of Judy. And poor Joey has no choice.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 63||11/06/2010|
I was wondering how Liza could have so many rabid diehard fans on one board, and then I hit troll-dar for r8 and the whole thread lit up like a Christmas tree.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||11/06/2010|
LOL and Bingo r64! You have spotted our likely candidate for the Youtube video. He's taping it as we speak.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||11/06/2010|
R54, there have been MANY women in Liza's life from her late teens on. The affair with Lisa Mordente was the one that hit the gossip columns.
Even some men Liza dated, like Gianni Russo (who besides Liza, dated Dionne Warwick and Zsa Zsa Gabor), claimed Liza wanted to bring another woman into every sexual situation.
Besides, Liza PINGS like hell -- especially in her pre-Fosse, more natural stage, before they turned her into a drag queen.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||11/06/2010|
I would have rather read about her invention of that staple in every modern woman's wardrobe, the Boyfriend Blazer.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||11/06/2010|
She's been murdering songs for nearly 45 years!
I'm acting. I'm screaming! I'm CRYING!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 68||11/06/2010|
To admit that she knows her father was gay would be to admit that she's been lying when she's been asked the question all these years. It's easier at this point to stick with the alternate reality she's created than to confess all the lies she's told over the years.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||11/06/2010|
I thought it was a really strange, snarky interview.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||11/06/2010|
[quote]So you've never seen Liza at your charity of choice--and that makes her less of a person? Since when do you get to set the standard for humanitarianism? How do you know what organizations she supports anyway?
No Dear, I'm not questioning her humanitarianism. Just doubting the statement she bends over backwards for her gays.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||11/06/2010|
"Just doubting the statement she bends over backwards for her gays."
That wasn't Liza. It was Peter Allen.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||11/06/2010|
Liza said it best and with a bit of a laugh when she reflected for a few seconds after Joy Behar asked Liza why gays liked her and her mother so much.%0D %0D Liza responded: "Because they have good taste."%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 73||11/06/2010|
Liza has never said anything bad in public about her parents. Judy met Peter Allen in 1964 in Hong Kong. Judy introducted Liza to Peter shortly thereafter. Liza and Peter were married three years later. %0D %0D Of course, all parties involved knew that Peter was gay, but in Loza's pre-Stonewall mind it would relect badly on her mother if she admitted that Judy played matchmaker.%0D %0D It's no wonder that she has not thought deeply about so many things, given all the not-quite accurate stories she has to remember. To be fair, I think she has a good heart and believes she is protecting Garland and Vincente Minnelli by moving away from anything gay when her parents are mentioned.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 74||11/06/2010|
The biggest door such an admission would open, r74, is her own sexuality, which is the reason why she willingly married at least 3, if not 4 gay men.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||11/06/2010|
"Her sister is nothing like that."%0D %0D And her sister is a crashing bore, on and off stage.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||11/06/2010|
"...which is the reason why she willingly married at least 3, if not 4 gay men."%0D %0D Oh, please, r75. Everyone knows that sculptor guy was totally straight. And how do you explain Martin Scorcese, Mikhail Baryshnikov, and Ben Vereen? These are not men who waste their time with women who won't fuck them. Is Liza bi? Maybe. A lesbian? No.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||11/06/2010|
I'm just curious (R63). How did she distance herself from the "Garland legacy" ?
|by Anonymous||reply 78||11/06/2010|
Does anyone know what happened to her voice? Lots of gals her age still have good pipes.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||11/06/2010|
[quote]Does anyone know what happened to her voice? Lots of gals her age still have good pipes.
It's now the property of Philip Morris.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||11/06/2010|
Chain smoker and, let's face it, she still dips into the chems here and there.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||11/06/2010|
I agree with R77 & you can add Desi Arnaz, Jr. and Peter Sellers to the list of straight boy friends. %0D %0D Also wasn't her marriage to Mark Gero, the one straight guy, her longest marriage?
|by Anonymous||reply 82||11/06/2010|
Sorry but I have to agree with whomever said she was a lesbian. I mean she is her father's daughter. Why else would she bullshit about marrying gay men? Why else would she think it was no problem to marry a gay man? Obviously she wanted a beard and she did not want him to touch her. So weird how all of Hollywood feels this huge need to be closetted. Even a person like Liza needs to be deep in the closet...like, who would even care?
|by Anonymous||reply 83||11/06/2010|
"I would think, instead of talking with kander"
|by Anonymous||reply 84||11/06/2010|
R77, R82, with the exception of 21 year old Desi Arnaz and Marc Gero, those relationships were extremely brief. I wouldn't even call them 'boyfriends,' they were more like 'a few dates.'
I don't know if Liza wanted a beard, but I do think she cannot acknowledge her own sexuality. And a gay man won't touch her too often. That works.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||11/06/2010|
Don't drop bombsche, baby!
|by Anonymous||reply 86||11/06/2010|
[quote]So in other words, she's not in denial, but she's lying.
Sure, if you want to call it that. Like R6 said, she was brought up with old school Hollywood practices where you didn't spill everything to an interviewer just to get attention.
The bitchiness here is really astounding. Trying to vilify her as an evil, evil liar because she didn't want to get into the prying questions the interviewer asked is bad enough. But calling her stupid and mentally retarded? Saying that she fakes her humanitarian actions just to look good to the public?
And as to Mr. Troll-dar Detective up there who claims there is only one person on DL who likes Liza, that's just stupidity. A lot of assholes on DL need to grow up. How do you survive in the real world when you encounter someone who disagrees with you?
|by Anonymous||reply 87||11/06/2010|
I do not know much about the Gero marriage, but the Liza-Desi, Jr.%0D affair (they were also engaged) seemed both real and intense.%0D %0D Why would Desi, who at 21-years old, could have dated any available woman in the world settle for someone who was four-five years older and also a lesbian? It does not make any sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||11/06/2010|
Not that I necessarily think that Liza is/was a lesbian using Desi Arnaz as a merkin, but I can think of a few reasons having to do with career advancement (just like all of Tom Cruises short of famous wives who have done welll married to him). Desi needed some validation other than his last name and Liza was at the peak of her career
|by Anonymous||reply 90||11/06/2010|
"How did she distance herself from the "Garland legacy" ?"%0D %0D 1.) She's done entire shows and acts revolving around Vincent and Kay Thompson, going in depth on the huge influence each has had on her life. She has yet to do one about Judy.%0D %0D 2.) She has never sung "Over the Rainbow", "Man that got away" and other Garland classics. %0D %0D 3.) Saying "Thank you for giving ME this award" when she won for Cabaret. She was publicly pissed at Rock Hudson for insinuating that Judy had something to do with the win. %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 91||11/06/2010|
[quote]She has never sung "Over the Rainbow", "Man that got away" and other Garland classics.%0D %0D IMO that would be a huge mistake
|by Anonymous||reply 92||11/06/2010|
Her Tony speech was unintentionally hilarious... "Lastly, I want to thank my parents.... (huge applause which drowned out the rest of the sentence).... for the gift of Kay Thompson!"
Sorry Liza, Kay will never be a star and we will never buy that she was your main influence! It's all about Judy, Judy, Judy.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||11/06/2010|
She's a homophobe. Gay is not part of her mental universe. She doesn't want to be defined by it because she sees herself as a universal entertainer, not a ghetto diva. In truth, she never had any mainstream appeal, even Liberace had more. She may not be honest, but she's more revealing than if she were. I have no problem believing she had lesbian affairs that have never been brought to life. Can she be a homophobe in that sense and still be charitable and good to gay people? Of course.%0D But don't expect gratitude from her because you know her support comes from gays. She would only think of that rep as something that held back her career rather than advanced it.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 94||11/06/2010|
Liza has sung "The Man that Got Away" in her concerts. She did it as an encore at a 1994 outdoor concert in Boston (dedicated to 'my best friend, Mama').%0D %0D On Desi and Liza, I thought Lucille Ball's objection to the relationship was that Liza had more talent and drive than Desi. I can see Liza's liking Lucy as a mother-in-law --another female show business legend, but one never missed a day of work unlike Judy.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||11/06/2010|
"She's always been completely supportive of her fans and the gay community, and has bent over backwards for them countless times."%0D %0D You are a psychotic Liza-queen. %0D %0D In that interview she makes it clear that she does not and never has given a flying fuck about gays. Why, she was 18 before she knew they existed! She says she was "18 and living in NY" when she found other there was such a thing as homosexuality. Makes sense, I guess; the implication is that NY is where all the queers live, so that's how little Liza came to notice them. %0D %0D She denies her father was gay?! Everyone and his mother knows that Vincent Minnelli was gay as the proverbial tree full of parrots. Either she's lying, or delusional or fucked up on drugs or her brain is so destroyed by drugs that she permanently detached from reality. %0D %0D And do explain how she's "bent over backwards" for gays "countless times." Jesus, the looney fangurls of Liza Minnelli are so fucked up they're scary.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||11/06/2010|
"Liza is a true professional."%0D %0D Sure she is. That's why she keeps cancelling performances due to "illness." You are a big, fat, idiot Liza fangurl.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||11/06/2010|
[quote]The next week in a conversation with composer John Kander, who has known Minnelli since she was 18...
|by Anonymous||reply 98||11/06/2010|
I think R94 hits the nail squarely on the head.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||11/06/2010|
I love R88.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||11/06/2010|
[quote]I would have rather read about her invention of that staple in every modern woman's wardrobe, the Boyfriend Blazer.%0D %0D I love you "I wash working with clay!!
|by Anonymous||reply 101||11/06/2010|
I am two years older than Liza. While I think some of her answers are flat out ridicuous, being gay/lesbian in the '50s and '60s when Liza was growing up was not or seldom talked about. So I am not surprised by her comments about her grandfather and father.%0D %0D But, it's not possible that Liza knew nothing about gays or lesbians until she was 18. Many of her parents' friends were gay. And she grew up in Hollywood, for God's sakes.%0D %0D Her dad's and her three husband's sexuality must be confusing to Liza, so perhaps she's blocked out anything to do with it.%0D %0D Liza has never grown up, but she has lived a much more solid life than her mom. Liza will be 65 in March.%0D For that she does deserve some credit.%0D %0D I do agree that Liza is virtually useless as an advocate for the GLBT%0D community.%0D %0D %0D %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 102||11/06/2010|
She sounds like a princess which, in Hollywood, she was. She has that sense of detachment that one often sees in members of a royal family. It's not so mystifying.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||11/06/2010|
Are all you idiots who say Liza has done nothing for the gay communiyt just talking out of your asses for the hell of it?! She and Elizabeth Taylor were the ONLY celebrities at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic to publicly speak about it and throw their support - personally, financially and artistically - behind AIDS charities when most other stars wouldn't dare go near the subject. Has everyone also forgotten Liza's devastating, but hopeful anthem "THE DAY AFTER THAT" about finding a cure for the disease, all of its proceeedss gooing to charities, btw?? Sheesh. Stop the nonsense people. And on another note, Lucy desperately wanted the relationship between Desi Jr. and Liza to work. She loved her like a daughter and, in fact, said so in many interviews.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||11/06/2010|
"She doesn't want to be defined by it because she sees herself as a universal entertainer, not a ghetto diva."%0D %0D As a longtime observer of Liza, I think r94 has precisely summed up in this sentence why Liza responds the way she does when she is questioned about her gay following.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||11/07/2010|
Many stars are not very bright and Liza is one of them. Drugs has made it much worse. I think she just turns on the old stories whenever she is asked. They are a substitute for reality, and she probably believes them now.
I know some celebs and I hear them, year after year, tell the same old stories that were made up years ago for PR purposes and they are still telling them today like they were true. It is pointless to try and dispute them anymore, they are a part of their mythology.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||11/07/2010|
I don't understand the hate either, she is a warm and gracious lady who has made some rather bad choices in life. She's clearly 'special' not that bright, but that doesn't make her a bad person. She's a great entertainer and for that she deserves respect. Most vocalists lose thier voice later in life, what will happen to Madonna and Britney when they are old? They never had voices to begin with.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||11/07/2010|
"She's clearly 'special' not that bright, but that doesn't make her a bad person."%0D %0D Wait, is the implication that Liza is "special needs"?
|by Anonymous||reply 108||11/07/2010|
Liza and Dolly Parton have much in common. Though of course Dolly isn't as drug-addled as Liza, they both wrote their own bios 40 years ago, and haven't strayed from them, since. It's to the point where they believe it, themselves. If you tell the same story enough times, it begins to seem true to you.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||11/07/2010|
Love r74's mlopian reference to "Loza".
|by Anonymous||reply 110||11/07/2010|
[quote]I know some celebs and I hear them, year after year, tell the same old stories that were made up years ago for PR purposes and they are still telling them today like they were true. It is pointless to try and dispute them anymore, they are a part of their mythology.%0D %0D Kander's point exactly, even if his spin was one of praise and admiration for the consummate entertainer who creates an image or, dare we say, public persona, who elicits strong feelings from her audience.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||11/07/2010|
With Ebb gone, it would be interesting to know what the interaction (if any) is like these days between Kander and Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||11/07/2010|
After reading all the comments here, I re-read the entire article, and really the interviewer was just trying, if insistently, to have her gush about the gay community that loves her so much and by which she was surrounded. She wouldn't, probably because she did not want to compartmentalize her "art', i.e, whatever she's promoting.%0D %0D At no point did I note the interviewer wanting to inject a dreary tone to the interview. I think Liza was referring to perhaps sensationalism, and even then, I diddn't catch that from the interviewer. Instead I caught typical Advocate fare: "OK, what's your link to gay?"
|by Anonymous||reply 113||11/07/2010|
there is so much utter INSANITY on this thread:take it from one who knows:
Liza never had an affair with Lisa Mordente and it was never reported in any gossip columns ever. Link? didn't think so. Lisa was married to a man, and Liza loves cock as much as the rest of us do.
Liza has performed The Man That got Away, part of Over the Rainbow (Liza's Back and Michael Jackson anniversary), Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, and The Trolley song, the latter as a duet with Judy.
Chita and Liza NEVER had a falling out. Liza and John Kander are still close.
She is not crazy or dumb. She's a woman who experiences a traumatic childhood, some miscarriages, a stroke or two, and encephalitis, and has figured out a way to keep on going while keeping those things private. Anyone who thinks she's aggressive in real life clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||11/07/2010|
They should do a new movie, "Riding the Bus with My Sister and Grandma," starring Rosie O and Liza!
|by Anonymous||reply 115||11/07/2010|
R112- I can answer that. I know Mr. Kander.%0D I saw him this summer and asked about Liza at dinner. At that time, he said he hadn't talked to her for a month or so. But he was very involved with SCOTTSBORO which had opened the previous week at the Guthrie. When Liza is working on a show or needs something, she will call. That doesn't mean that they are not close. Mr. Kander and his partner attended Liza at the Palace.. several times. She attended a performance of CURTAINS (not the opening) with them. They occasionally go out to dinner. But their relationship is not as close as the one Liza had with Ebb. Mr. Kander said that he has never heard Liza say one mean thing about anyone in all the years he has known her. They are both very respectful of each other.%0D And he has never said anything mean about her, at least to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||11/07/2010|
"Still wonder why John Fricke detests her so. He loves Lorna but not Liza. Ask him and he won't say a word. I guess that is respectful in a way. To keep mum."%0D %0D And we're supposed to give a fuck why?%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 117||11/07/2010|
"Why would Desi, who at 21-years old, could have dated any available woman in the world settle for someone who was four-five years older and also a lesbian? It does not make any sense"%0D %0D LOL! A young guy would go WILD for a SEVEN years older woman who is a total slut and wants to bring another woman into bed. It makes perfect sense. Plus, he got tons of publicity and even a TV movie role. Not bad for a pretty boy with a famous mother almost zero acting talent.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||11/07/2010|
How old are you R114? You missed a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||11/07/2010|
I don't mean this sarcastically but could someone from the "Leave Liza Alone" side please explain what's wrong with this article? I thought the reporter's central question was very reasonable and hardly constituted an insult or an attack: "I imagined that she would have some thoughts about [how] she and her mother shared an affinity for gay men as both friends and lovers, I thought this might be a connection that she%E2%80%99d pondered too."
It's a reasonable question and hardly invasive, and considering Liza has lived her life in the public eye, it's a gay magazine (and her latest album is titled confessions), she might be able to come up with something to say?
I showed this article to an otherwise reasonable friend of mine who is a Liza fan and he was all "How dare they?!?"
I don't get it. Could someone please explain: point to something specific in the article.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||11/07/2010|
This interview wasn't rude at all. We are just so used to puff-pieces from Liza. The interviewer asked Liza questions I've always wanted someone to ask. I have always assumed Liza is aware of everything, and she just played the role of the naive, scatterbrain. She is a show-biz child, and everything is about the show. I assume she knew full-well that Peter Allen was gay, but she married him because they were friends and it would make great press. Liza grew up with 1) the truth, and 2) what the press people want to put forward. I have always thought that the conflict between reality and public image is the reason why Liza has had problems with substance abuse. I remember when she started her musical collaboration with Billy Stritch, and she told everybody that they were actually a couple. That was the first time I was aware of Liza as a 'fabulist.' I wished that Liza would just drop the pretense and just talk to us honestly. I think she has a lot to say.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||11/07/2010|
"The icky fag who conducted and then wrote up that interview is nothing but an icky, icky fag, and the interview is smeared from head to toe with the kind of smarmy, stupid, bitchy faggot nonsense for which THE INADEQUATE - er, I mean THE ADVOCATE - is famous. Ugh, gay journalism is AWFUL, and I pray for it to die and die and die and never come back. Why is homo-journalism such a cesspool of stupid clubby snide cruisey icky bitchy bargain-basement faggots?"%0D %0D You're a detestable, retarded homophobic fuckwad. If you're gay and that homophobic, then you must be the most self-loathing queen on the planet. Your worship of Liza Minnelli is psychotic. You need HELP.%0D %0D And so does R100, who "loves" you. You two assholes ought to hook up; you deserve each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||11/07/2010|
You're right, r122. That commenter is repulsive. It makes me wonder if the more virulent "Leave Liza Alone" comments aren't motivated by some form of weird internalized reverse-reverse homophobia?
ie We poor, lowly queers should be so grateful to anyone who publicly treats us decently that we should never dare to ask them even mildly uncomfortable questions or cast them in a complicating light.
Could I have identified a syndrome? Internalized homophobic Liza panic disorder? IHLPD?
|by Anonymous||reply 123||11/07/2010|
|by Anonymous||reply 124||11/07/2010|
|by Anonymous||reply 125||11/07/2010|
"I'm a theater major."
|by Anonymous||reply 126||11/07/2010|
R121: Anyone who grew up with such famous and screw-up parents (nine marriages between them)would have problems. She's knows that her dad was gay or bi, Liza just can get herself to say it to the news media.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||11/07/2010|
r125 missed the reference. Zoom! Right over his head.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||11/07/2010|
So did I, r128. Would it ruin all if I asked for a clue?
|by Anonymous||reply 129||11/07/2010|
I'll tell you, R129, but I require you wear a Boyfriend Blazer while listening to my tale.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||11/07/2010|
r128, just watch the first seventeen seconds and you'll understand all.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||11/07/2010|
A young Liza.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 132||11/07/2010|
R129%0D %0D %0D HUH??
|by Anonymous||reply 133||11/07/2010|
I couldn't care less if Liza wants to admit or not that her father was gay. She's one of the biggest goddamn stars to ever perform. And that's what matters. %0D %0D Here are two examples combined into one clip: God Bless the Child from Late night with David Letterman in 1080 and New York, New York from the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson in 1981:
|by Anonymous||reply 134||11/07/2010|
Liza sings The Day After That in 1993:
|by Anonymous||reply 135||11/07/2010|
Here's Liza not capitalizing on her mother while wearing the Swanee drag from A Star is Born...
|by Anonymous||reply 136||11/07/2010|
And an even more emotional version of "The Day After That" sung by Liza on the Rosie O'Donnell Show. Tears your heart out. %0D %0D Liza was tremendous in keeping the AIDS and those suffering in the public's consciousness. The song was translated in several languages and some of the proceeds were donated to research of the disease.%0D %0D And if Liza doesn't want to give the interviewer her innermost feelings of some private family business, then so what!%0D %0D I doubt very much Liza is a homophobe. She never says an unkind word about anyone.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||11/07/2010|
And here's Liza kick-starting her career by stealing Streisand's, well... everything, at the Palladium in 1964.
She's always been a fraud.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||11/07/2010|
I've heard Liza has also brought the dead back to life and has healed many lepers.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||11/07/2010|
Watching the clip in R138's post, you are reminded what a geeky nerd Liza's always been. And quite unattractive, as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||11/07/2010|
Michael Joseph Gross is my mentor!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 141||11/07/2010|
"Still wonder why John Fricke detests her so. He loves Lorna but not Liza. Ask him and he won't say a word. I guess that is respectful in a way. To keep mum."%0D %0D "And we're supposed to give a fuck why?"%0D %0D As a big Judy and Liza fan, I personally am fascinated by this and would love to know what the conflict between Fricke and Liza is about!%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 142||11/07/2010|
Me too R142.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||11/07/2010|
I heard from a Judy fan that Fricke considers Liza a tasteless fraud.
"And an even more emotional version of "The Day After That" sung by Liza on the Rosie O'Donnell Show. Tears your heart out."
I saw it as a career move; there wasn't much career at the time. What I noticed most about Liza during that Rosie O'Donnell interview was how her hands were shaking. I wondered what she was on or what she 'needed' to stop shaking.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||11/07/2010|
Jesus Christ, I don't understand hating Liza. She doesn't deserve it. She has always been a great entertainer, and that's all she owes anyone. How old are some of you people? If you've followed Liza's career, she has spanned the decades and has survived. And she's been great. %0D %0D Liza has brought a lot of joy to millions. Jesus, it seems like some of you just want to focus on her faults and when she had troubles and then judge her life only on a narrow view.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||11/07/2010|
Liza Minnelli has won every major award in the entertainment industry--some awards even several times over. She didn't reach the height of show business because people didn't like her. People have loved Liza. She's talented and she's a good person. Yes, she had some troubles in her life.%0D %0D Liza had taleneted and complicated parents. No one is going to be perfect with a life such as hers. But Liza rose above them all, and she's still here. And I happen to like her for her greatness and her imperfections.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||11/07/2010|
r145, the more you and the other Liza fans let people know they're winding you up successfully, the longer this thread will be.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||11/07/2010|
The happy couple.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||11/07/2010|
Liza and Lisa, how cute. Anyone looking at that photo has to know poor Lisa is a total dyke.
Did you know she auditioned for Morales in ACL but Michael Bennett rejected her right away.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||11/07/2010|
Michael Joseph Gross is a freak, a sad sack and a lousy lay....
|by Anonymous||reply 150||11/07/2010|
I used to take dance class with Phil Black in the 80's and Lisa was in my advanced class.%0D %0D Oh my - She's put on some weight.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 151||11/08/2010|
Liza dated kd Lang before Lang came out of the closet.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||11/11/2010|
I agree with r20 and the others - the interviewer was trying to be confrontational and not showing her respect. Like that other jerk a few years ago who deliberately wound up La Dunaway with questions like did she throw urine over Polanski on Chinatown.... just to get a sensational interview with Dunaway walked out.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||11/11/2010|
The most recent biographer of Liza's dad tried to get someone - anyone - to confirm any gay relationships Vincente had and came up empty. There was one person who claimed to have been cruised but nothing happened and then a dancer who claimed he got his ass pinched onset one day - that was it! Even members of the Cukor and party circuit circles couldn't provide any info.
I think this is also a big part of the problem between Liza and Fricke. Fricke always pushes his gay agenda without any factual basis and it's been repeated so often now that it's taken as fact. Fricke really can't see beyond Judy myth and his own dick.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||11/12/2010|
That's because they're all dead, R154. And I don't think Frickie pushes a gay agenda, he's very uncomfortable with Judy's bisexuality.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||11/12/2010|
Sorry I do not believe Minnelli was straight, perhaps bi. If he was alive today, he would be 107 years old. There's little wonder the biographer could not find anyone who will talk; they are all dead.%0D %0D One of the most mentioned lesbian couples here is Janet Gaynor-Mary Martin, yet has anyone ever provided proof? Not that I do not believe that MM & JG had a sexual relationship. %0D %0D This thread has been taken over by Liza fan girls/guys.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||11/12/2010|
The thing with Minnelli as stated is that there is no actual proof he was gay. He was married several times after all, unlike Cukor whom everyone knew was gay and he lived the gay lifestyle. %0D %0D Minnelli may have been the kind of gay who was always married, as liked to have a hostess for all his soirees etc - but probably cruised trade on the side and sucked a lot of cock - without ever wanting a gay relationship. %0D %0D These old fashioned kind of queens are probably still around.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 158||11/12/2010|
Jesus, you all are so stupid. Do you not realize that there is no human impulse or urge about which people are more likely to lie than sexual desire or activity? People do not tell the truth - especially to themselves - about what they do, and what turns them on, and whom they fuck. It's not generational, it's eternal. People lie about sex and money. And there are bazillions of folks out there in America who have same-sex sex and never admit it to anyone, including themselves. A lot of people who entirely identify as straight have homo sex. Ask them if they're gay, and they will tell you they are not. As them if they are bisexual, and they will say - thank god - that they are not. Nobody in this thread has a shred of imagination or insight. Liza is the entertainer you deserve.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||11/12/2010|
R159 is obviously not comfortable with sex nor with living in his/her own skin.
There were plenty of known gays in old Hollywood. Vincente Minnelli was not among them.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||11/12/2010|
r 160, of course I'm not comfortable in my skin! Duh.
Liza Minnelli is a compulsive liar. She can't stop herself. She goes to the john, she lies about having been in there. There's no reason to believe a word she says. But who cares?
Admit that THE INADEQUATE's interviewer is an idiot.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||11/12/2010|
I'm really disappointed in this interview, the auther seems to only focus on making Liza uncomfortable. Of course she's not going to be open when your asking her so many questions like that.%0D %0D I wish he would have focused on all of the wonderful things Liza has done. Not only is she a talented lady but she was/is an incredible role model for a lot of woman. She broke a lot of ground and showed many woman that you could do whatever you wanted to do and didn't need a man to do it.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||11/12/2010|
Who are the homophobic cunts like R88 and Bev, and why are they on DL?
This place is so full of psychotics it should come with a warning label. I would no more tell my smart gay friends to check DL out than I would recommend godhatesfags or lucianne or freerepublic.
As for "Liza-haters" being pitiful, celebrity-worshippers are sycophantic losers. Being called pitiful by anyone who thinks entertainers are better than other people is a compliment.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||11/12/2010|
R163 being called pitiful by anyone who thinks entertainers / gays / rich people are better than other people is a compliment.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||11/12/2010|
She's just like everyone else in show business. A sociopathic liar. What else can you say for her?
|by Anonymous||reply 166||11/12/2010|
"Michael was one of the greatest performers of ALL TIME."
"Well, you know what? I got the TONY and they told me I was one of the greatest performers of all time!"
|by Anonymous||reply 167||11/12/2010|
No R167 she's just making a point about how overused superlatives like that are. Liza is very down to earth and her comment just before that is spot on - what counts is who he was, not all the stupid gossipy and, frankly, discriminatory stuff the Advocate interviewer was trying to mine.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||11/12/2010|
"And here's Liza kick-starting her career by stealing Streisand's, well... everything"%0D %0D Who in turn stole it from Lena Horne.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||11/13/2010|
Liza grew up amidst the greats in the business. She didn't have to steal squat from a Brooklyn nobody like young Streisand.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||11/13/2010|
Lets amuse R163 and pretend he actually has a life.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||11/13/2010|
[quote]One of the most mentioned lesbian couples here is Janet Gaynor-Mary Martin, yet has anyone ever provided proof?
She was also involved with Margaret Livingston, and there are photos of them together on what appear to be dates to film premiers. Also, Gaynor bearded for Adrian, so that's another bit of circumstantial evidence.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||11/13/2010|
Michael Gross is....GROSS!
|by Anonymous||reply 173||11/13/2010|
Well thank you troll-dar!! %0D %0D r 157, 159, 161 and 165 are one and the same person.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 175||12/14/2010|
R165, I hate you and your obsession with the word 'cunt'. I especially hate that you berate everyone on here for using hate-speech, but you use 'faggot' and 'faggoty' and worse constantly.
I think you're psychotic, and I know you make me sick. You are, in one example, why DL sucks now. You weren't here 10 years ago, and I'm glad you weren't.
Gay, straight, male, female, or trans: you are a cunt of the worst kind, and I wish to fuck you'd never found this site.
|by Anonymous||reply 176||01/14/2011|
Liza never had an affair with Lisa Mordente and it was never reported in any gossip columns ever. Link? didn't think so. Lisa was married to a man, and Liza loves cock as much as the rest of us do."
Some gay men find the thought that one of their female icons could possibly be lesbian so repugnant. Is this not homophobia?
|by Anonymous||reply 177||02/22/2013|
r148, Chita's daughter is very cute
|by Anonymous||reply 178||02/22/2013|
r152, well that proves she is straight because KD is a bulldyke
|by Anonymous||reply 179||02/22/2013|
If cunt is a misogynistic word, asshole is a homophobic word.
Really. Cunt as I learned the word was from my mother and referred to shitty people.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||02/22/2013|
Liza is pretty to me
|by Anonymous||reply 181||02/22/2013|
It used to be a joke around Hollywood, how much Liza loved gay cock. She loved to bow the gays. The joke was that if you were at a party Liza was at and you needed to use the bathroom, you were out of luck, because Liza would be in there all night doing coke and blowing gay men.
Joyce Haber even wrote the situation into her book THE USERS.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||02/22/2013|
why would gay men want a woman to suck them off
|by Anonymous||reply 183||02/22/2013|
Liza only gives performances, not the truth. It's the only way she can cope with her very sad life and traumatic childhood.
She is not as pro-gay as she likes to pretend to be. She has been hurt and betrayed by a lot of gay men in her life, many of whom used or abused her.
Stop trying to make her into some gay icon. She's not.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||02/22/2013|
r184, Yeah because SO many gay men are dicks!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 185||02/22/2013|
Of course she is, R 184.
Just because you don't want her to be a gay icon doesn't mean you get your way.
You can't undo CABARET.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||02/22/2013|
Well. She was a huge, Oscar-winning superstar known for her excellent head, r183. Liza supposedly loved the challenge of getting into a Gaye's pants, and everyone was always stoned at those parties, so I guess there were a lot of gay guys who thought "Blowjob from a superstar? Why not!"
Judy loved blowing gay guys, too. That's how she got Minnelli.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||02/22/2013|
[quote]Liza never had an affair with Lisa Mordente and it was never reported in any gossip columns ever. Link? didn't think so.
I hope this isn't too upsetting for you, but the person you're replying to, in this old thread, died two years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||02/22/2013|
Gay men loathe gay women so much that they act like straight fan girls when their idol is accused of being a gay female
|by Anonymous||reply 189||02/22/2013|
Do you think Liza's very Catholic priest nephew and anti-gay marriage sister would still associate with her if she was gay?
|by Anonymous||reply 190||02/22/2013|
r187, Judy had to actually fuck Minnelli to produce Liza
|by Anonymous||reply 192||02/22/2013|