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Nancy Grace.....

Talking about a break in the Jon Benet case. Brother, Burke, to be questioned.

by Anonymousreply 10903/09/2013

She's a sensationalistic media whore. She's sitting there with glee just hoping they'll charge JB's brother with killing her. It'll make her day if it happens.

I hope that bitch burns in a grease fire some day.

by Anonymousreply 109/30/2010

Shit, I knew it. He did it and parents covered it up.

by Anonymousreply 209/30/2010

Right. I think we've been down this road a few times before.

Remember a couple years ago the last time they thought they had a break and caught the suspect? It turned out he wasn't even in the state at the time and he was released a few days later.

by Anonymousreply 309/30/2010

Have they cleared all the guests, deliverymen, caterers, etc? I would hope so but I've forgotten a lot.

by Anonymousreply 409/30/2010

Burke is kind of hot.

by Anonymousreply 509/30/2010

Nancy Grace is a joke, have you seen her show..laughable

by Anonymousreply 609/30/2010

Nancy doesn't think he is involved.%0D I don't either.%0D %0D I think Patsy Ramsey hit her for pissing in her pants.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 709/30/2010

how can the world be rid of nancy? please, some one cancel her from tv!!

by Anonymousreply 809/30/2010

How old was Burke at the time?

by Anonymousreply 909/30/2010

r9, he was 9

by Anonymousreply 1009/30/2010

After all I thought about doing for him, the least that little retard can do is fall on his sword for Mama -- and what a lovely, long sword it was!

by Anonymousreply 1109/30/2010

I hate Nancy Grace, but I've always thought the brother was guilty. Don't know why, just a gut feeling.

by Anonymousreply 1209/30/2010

I think it was the mother who murdered her own daughter but could we have another Joran Van der Sloth on our hands?

by Anonymousreply 1309/30/2010

I think the brother was involved...the family has always known what really happened.

by Anonymousreply 1409/30/2010

She got so nasty with one of her guests, I can't remember which one - I considered never watching Ms. Disgrace again, much as I love hearing about psychos and their crimes.

A while back, Nancy said that she got on a bus in NYC when she was very pregnant with twins and no one got up to give her their seat. WTF? Her bank balance is doubtlessly fatter than she is - so what else does she make up to entertain the trailer trash crowd?

Oh and I always thought Burke did it and his folks covered it up. Something about him and Jon Benet sharing some fruit cocktail or something and leaving the dishes out? Some sort of sex game got out of hand or whatever, gone wrong, is my guess. Patsy could have just shoved her down the stairs and said she tripped, not that I would put it past her.

by Anonymousreply 1509/30/2010

Nancy doesn't think the family had anything to do with it because they were good Christians and good Christians don't hurt their children.

by Anonymousreply 1609/30/2010

When Nancy rhapsodizes about those stupid twins of hers, I always think of a picture of Aimee Semple McPherson - a fake evangelist who used to fill arenas back in the 1920s. She would look up to heaven with the angel-like pose, while squirreling away money and having affairs with mobsters on the side.

by Anonymousreply 1709/30/2010

Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll always think Patsy did it, then her husband decided to help her cover it up. %0D %0D Burke was 9; what 9-year old does something like that? It's more like the twisted act of an aging neurotic mother trying to make her daughter into a perfect reproduction of herself so she can re-live her glory days.

by Anonymousreply 1809/30/2010

It wasn't Burke, the 911 tape clearly records his voice in the background asking what's happening, and his parents tell him to go back to bed.%0D %0D Patsy did it. John helped cover it up, to protect her. He hid the body and set the scene, while Patsy wrote the ransom note. Then they called the police.

by Anonymousreply 1909/30/2010

Mrs. Ramsey did you ever wax that 'stache you had in EVERY interview?

by Anonymousreply 2009/30/2010

"It wasn't Burke, the 911 tape clearly records his voice in the background asking what's happening, and his parents tell him to go back to bed."

No, Patsy (in full make up and the same clothes she wore to a party the night before) actually said to him, "We're not talking to you!"

It was a very busy night in the Ramsey household. Patsy's hand must have cramped writing TWO ransom notes from that "foreign faction."

by Anonymousreply 2109/30/2010

plus r21, Patsy had to come that 'stache.

by Anonymousreply 2209/30/2010

Yes, nine-year onld Burke, wrote that rambling randsom note and then put together that convoluted rope and knot garote designed to strangle someone.

by Anonymousreply 2309/30/2010

Burke killed her out of spite, jealousy whatever. Little boys are predators.

Parents found out and they wrote the note etc to make it look like a stranger.

by Anonymousreply 2409/30/2010

r24, the body was placed, not dragged. burke couldn't have placed her.

by Anonymousreply 2509/30/2010

She died from a blow to the head so why would someone tie a garotte around her neck? Doesn't make any sense.

by Anonymousreply 2609/30/2010

r25 The parents placed her after Burke did it.

by Anonymousreply 2709/30/2010

Same thing happened in the Chamberlain case in Australia.

by Anonymousreply 2809/30/2010

r28 You think one of the kids killed the baby and Lindsay Chamberlain covered for them?

by Anonymousreply 2909/30/2010

Burke is now a Purdue grad and here is a current pic of him:

by Anonymousreply 3009/30/2010

John did it and Patsy covered it up.%0D That's my view.%0D

by Anonymousreply 3109/30/2010

The perps were obviously a group of individuals representing a small foreign faction. After all, who but a group of individuals representing a small foreign faction would refer to themselves as "a group of individuals representing a small foreign faction?"

by Anonymousreply 3209/30/2010

Does anyone think that with my hair-do, if I painted myself green, I'd look like Gazoo?

by Anonymousreply 3309/30/2010

The garrote was used for the killer's sexual pleasure. %0D %0D No 9 year old could have done all that was involved in killing her. If you saw the crime scene photos you could see that. It would also be very unlikely for a 9 year old child to keep up the pretense of such an elaborate cover up and not give his involvement away. %0D %0D I am more convinced than ever that an intruder - likely known to the family but probably aware of their whereabouts that evening and their routines & house layout - went in through that large basement window (with the lock broken for several months at the time). The intruder either came in while the family was out and waited (also no one went to the basement before they all went to bed that night or checked the unused bedrooms on the kids' floor) or came in once the lights in the house went out. With the parents up on the 3rd floor they wouldn't have heard anything espcially if they had a TV on or music on in their rather cavernous bedroom suite. %0D %0D In any event Burke was interviewed at the time and was "cleared" - whatever that means. DNA samples all taken from all of these relatives and friends who had been in the house when her body was found. I don't think samples were taken from all the people who attended the Ramsey's large Chirstmas party shortly before the slaying.%0D %0D I believe they ruled out Patsy Ramsey's handwriting based on her exemplars. %0D %0D JonBenet regularly wet her pants. That was nothing new. Like with most kids who do, Patsy was used to it and had an abundant supply of panties as well as a routine for when it happend. People love to think that normal people with no past history of abuse or violence toward their children or spouses all of a sudden fly into a rage over some mundane or routine event and kill. But almost all such violent acts are preceded by prior acts of violence. This case was thoroughly investigated for such behavior by the parents and none was found. %0D %0D I also don't believe that covering up would have required the very specific marks of a sexual sadist to have simply staged an accidental fall or other such accident.%0D %0D It's tempting to want to characterize a mother who puts her daughter in those awful pageants as capable of murder and other loathesome things. But that's really not the profile involved.

by Anonymousreply 3409/30/2010

I saw that picture when that site was linked earlier but it just dawned on me that John has very prematurely lost 2 daughters and a wife. He still has his oldest daughter, maybe some grandkids, and Burke.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 3509/30/2010

I agree with you R34 but, if past threads are any indication, nothing will sway those that are overly invested in believing that Patsy did it.

by Anonymousreply 3609/30/2010

The biggest clue is the $118,000. Why didn't they investigate every possible person who knew that bonus amount - work, family, bank employee? Couldn't have been too many people.

by Anonymousreply 3709/30/2010

Burke sounds like a little, violent shitbag. What kind of 9 year old says I'm just getting on with my life?

[quote]In the summer of 1994, Burke accidentally hit JonBenet in the left cheek with a golf club he was swinging, an injury severe enough for Patsy Ramsey to take her daughter to a plastic surgeon, who did not feel surgery was warranted.

[quote]The National Enquirer reported, On Sept. 1, 1998, that Burke told Dr. Suzanne Bernhard, a Boulder child psychologist, that he was "getting on with my life." He reportedly said this on Jan. 8, 1997 %E2%80%93 13 days after JonBenet died.

by Anonymousreply 3809/30/2010


"Patsy had to come that 'stache."

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 3909/30/2010

If an intruder killed Jonbenet when did they write the ransom note, before or after the crime? It was such a long, convoluted thing, was this person composing it while the rest of the family slept upstairs?

by Anonymousreply 4009/30/2010

9 year olds can be psychopaths. Maybe he killed her and then they added details to protect their beloved son - I think it's pretty certain that Patsy wrote the ransom note, and it's not like a mother to kill her daughter in that tortuous way.

And there would be other stuff in the father's past if he was the culprit, and it's less likely that Patsy would go so far to cover it up for hubby as she would for son.

But it IS like a psychopathic kid. We'll see if he can keep his hands clean from now on.

by Anonymousreply 4109/30/2010

If they suspect Burke could they be questioning him now beacause he is over 21?

Can you even be charged years later for something if you were 9?

by Anonymousreply 4209/30/2010

I'm not sure if a 9-year-old can be held responsible for murder. And he's past the age where he could be "punished" by being put in a juvenile rehab home.

He's home free. If he behaves from now on. Hell, he could probably make a fortune confessing in a book.

by Anonymousreply 4309/30/2010

[quote]Anywhow, the point is that 13 days after the crime Burke mentions a knife and head injury to Dr. Bernhard, prior to that info being released. How did he know about those things?

by Anonymousreply 4409/30/2010

He's a member of the family and was there that night, R44.

As far as 'getting on with my life', a nine year old does not understand death. His little sister was the center of the family before she died and was even more so after she died. A nine year old would consider her to be a pain in the ass.

by Anonymousreply 4509/30/2010

"It was Burke."

by Anonymousreply 4609/30/2010

Off with his head!

And Nancy Grace's, too--all of it!

by Anonymousreply 4710/01/2010

"I believe they ruled out Patsy Ramsey's handwriting based on her exemplars."

Bless you for believing that, you precious, wide-eyed thing! I'm sending Christian smooches from Hell to you for believing that. Tell all your friends.

by Anonymousreply 4810/01/2010

We've been over all this a zillion times! I've said it before. If you read "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" you will have a very uneasy feeling about the neighbor who was a close friend of the Ramseys. %0D %0D The guy was in and out of their house, stored and hid Christmas presents for them, was there that night, "helped" look for Jon Benet. Personally I think he was a secret perv who was sexually obssessed with her.%0D %0D As for Nancy Grace, she is repulsive! Her show is a sick joke and she is hideous. BTW: What ever happened to the Caley Anthony case?

by Anonymousreply 4910/01/2010

Actually, Patsy's handwriting sample was the only one that COULDN'T be ruled out as having written the ransom note.

by Anonymousreply 5010/01/2010

Children can be nasty, don't you think?

by Anonymousreply 5110/01/2010

r34 is absolutely correct. Most of you don't even know the facts of the story.%0D %0D Also she was tazer about twelve times and they didn't find the tazer gun.%0D %0D The DNA in her underwear didn't match any of her relatives.%0D %0D It was an intruder.

by Anonymousreply 5210/01/2010

Why are some of you calling Burke a psychopath? %0D %0D Hasn't he been completely off the radar since the murder?

by Anonymousreply 5310/01/2010

If Burke is being questioned, it's 99% sure they'll be asking him what his parents did that night and after, not whether he killed the girl himself. %0D %0D Get real.

by Anonymousreply 5410/01/2010

The thing I dislike about Nancy Grace is when someone is suspected of a crime, she go on and on and on about how this person is allegedly guilty, practically convinced of their crime.

But the minute they are cleared, there is no follow-up. No 'this person has been cleared'. She just drops them from her radar on goes on to the next criminal.

by Anonymousreply 5510/01/2010

The best Nancy Grace story, I think, was after a year of bleating about how the Duke Lacrosse team was obviously guilty of rape.

Of course, once they'd cleared the players, she immediately took the night off.

I recall John Stewart mocking her mercilessly for that.

by Anonymousreply 5610/01/2010

[quote]"It was Burke." by: Ellen Ripley


by Anonymousreply 5710/01/2010

Patsy did it, John helped cover it up. Burke had nothing to do with it, and there was never any intruder. %0D %0D Real life is much simpler than Perry Mason or Murder She Wrote scripts.

by Anonymousreply 5810/01/2010

The Ramseys struck me as the kind of rich people who were very courteous on a superficial level, but sort of took the hired help for granted, and didn't pay attention to the workmen around the house from time to time. So it could be an intruder. Someone who was reglarly around that house or knew someone who was. %0D %0D Our family is lower middle income and my mother follows repairmen around the house as if they were about to run off with the crown jewels! She watches everything around the house all the comings and goings.%0D %0D I'm another one who cannot stomach Nancy Grace. It makes me wonder. Who the hell watches that show? Who gives her any credibility? And why would anyone want to appear on her show? If I was a legal expert I would be mortified for anyone to see me on her show.

by Anonymousreply 5910/01/2010

When the police arrived, Patsy was wearing the same clothes and make-up she wore to a Christmas party the night before.

And before that little pageant strumpet had been "found," Jon was on the phone trying to arrange for a private planet to get them out of Boulder.

Patsy wrote that ridiculous ransom note.

We don't know what happened in the house that night, but Patsy and John did.

All the rest is just smoke screen.

by Anonymousreply 6010/01/2010

I guess Jon couldn't get ahold of the private planet R60. Was the private planet going to take them to a private island?

by Anonymousreply 6110/01/2010

Can't Nancy Grace just fucking DIE already?

I'm so sick of this fame-whoring sow.

by Anonymousreply 6210/01/2010

Didn't Dominic Dunne think it was Burke?

by Anonymousreply 6310/01/2010

I slightly remember friends of the Ramseys- the wife was an author who was married to a guy who played Santa Claus? And the book the wife wrote had a plot similar to Jon Benet's death? Does anyone remember this or did I hear wrong?

by Anonymousreply 6410/01/2010

Has NG talked about the cop in KC who got a kid drunk and then raped him?

by Anonymousreply 6510/01/2010

Nancy Grace? You go girl!

by Anonymousreply 6610/01/2010

R49, it's still being tried. Frankly, I think it's taking an awfully long time and I have a horrible feeling she will get off but hopefull I'm wrong. What's up with Kyron Horman? That dropped off the radar fast. Anyone in Oregan?

by Anonymousreply 6710/01/2010

Two nights ago, Nancy was scolding one of her guest lawyers for delivering an answer she didn't want to hear, and during the predictable choice of words, her guest lawyer started to laugh at her. She paused, glared at him and before she could continue to berate him, he started to giggle and said: "Oh Nancy, your children are so gorgeous." She started to lose control but quickly cracked a smile as she knew she had been "snarked". I thought it was hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 6810/01/2010


by Anonymousreply 6910/01/2010

[quote]it's not like a mother to kill her daughter in that tortuous way.%0D %0D Uh huh.%0D %0D Susan Smith = drown kids in the car%0D %0D Andrea Yates = drowns kids in the bathtub with her own hands%0D %0D Elyse Colon = stabbed her two sons%0D %0D Christina Hancock = beat her "fat and lazy" 13 month old son to death

by Anonymousreply 7010/01/2010

None of those deaths had a sexual element. I still say the way Jon Benet was killed points to someone other than her mother.

by Anonymousreply 7110/01/2010

The family was cleared. They are innocent.

by Anonymousreply 7210/01/2010

R49, I've read "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" and I still believe Patsy did it, and that John helped her cover it up. %0D %0D The only thing that gives me pause, is that I believe John would have had to leave the house to discard some of the evidence before calling the police, and I find it a little hard to believe that he could have accomplished that without anyone seeing him. However, he could have just walked down the alley behind the house and placed it in another neighbor's trash can. After finishing "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" I poured back over the first few chapters of the book, looking for some reference to police combing through the neighbors trash, and there was none. I can only conclude that that wasn't done, therefore, that would explain a lot for me.%0D %0D I think the creepy neighbors were just convenient scapegoats. If the pervy old neighbor wanted to molest and murder JonBenet, why write the ransom note and stage it to look like a kidnapping? Why not just sneak in, molest her, then smother her in her bed? How did he manage to break into the house, write "the 'War and Peace' of ransom notes", sneak up to JonBenet's room, molest her, feed her pineapple, then murder her, walk all through the house (in the dark, no less), without leaving behind a shred of physical evidence? And an unknown intruder would have had too difficult a time navigating the house in the dark, and could not have known that the Ramseys slept a floor away from their children.%0D %0D R52, only one retired police detective believes that JonBenet was tasered, due to strange markings on her neck. Those marking could have been caused by any number of things. The underwear were brand-new out of the package, and the DNA on the underwear could easily have come from the person or persons who handled them at the factory. %0D %0D I think John found some items in a neighbor's trash can (used sanitary napkin, cum rag, something) and used it to plant false evidence, including the pubic hair.%0D %0D If I remember correctly, it was reported that Patsy Ramsey passed a polygraph test, but it was not reported that the particular polygraph examination that was performed on her has a rating of 0-10, (0 indicating deceptiveness and 10 indicating that the person is telling the truth) and Patsy scored a 3.%0D %0D I'm sure it was an accident, but Patsy killed that poor child.

by Anonymousreply 7310/01/2010

R73: If only I were still alive, you wouldn't be!

by Anonymousreply 7410/01/2010

[quote] How did he manage to break into the house, write "the 'War and Peace' of ransom notes", sneak up to JonBenet's room, molest her, feed her pineapple, then murder her, walk all through the house (in the dark, no less), without leaving behind a shred of physical evidence?%0D %0D Particularly with Patsy staying up all night (she was still dressed in her party outfit from the previous night). %0D %0D And the ransom note is so indicative of what people tend to do when faking a crime scene - overdo it. Most criminals don't hang around, making up elaborate scenarios at crime scenes. The quicker they get away, the less likely they are to get caught. John and Patsy's "intruder" seems to have been quite a leisurely sort. Most unlikely.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 7510/01/2010

A careful kidnapper writes a two-page practice ransom note. Just to get the tone and feel right.

And then writes a "final" ransom note in block letters, taking care to carefully identify himself in a fashion most likely to come to mind to a spoiled, ignorant housewife who watches FoxNews.

by Anonymousreply 7610/01/2010

I've read alot on this case, too. To those who believe it was an intruder, how do you explain the fact that the police found no footprints in the snow anywhere around the basement perimeter?

by Anonymousreply 7710/01/2010

Actually, when that nitwit who claimed she had acid throw in her face was shown to be a liar, Nancy Grace went after her big time. Of course, in one second, she turned from victim to perpetrator so of course Nancy had a field day.

by Anonymousreply 7810/01/2010

It's possible that Burt killed Jon Benet, either accidently or out of over-the-top sibling rage. Then the Ramseys covered up the killing by adding the ropes or whatever and a (ridculous)ransom note to make it look like an adult did it.

by Anonymousreply 7910/01/2010

I thought it was strange that Patsy was known to brag about what a big cock Burke had.

It seems that it was a weirdly sexualized family.

by Anonymousreply 8010/01/2010

Come on,r80- Patsy never said that. That is just sick.%0D %0D I did.

by Anonymousreply 8110/01/2010

I never understood why Patsy being a former beauty queen and so well groomed didn't bleach that dark mustache.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 8210/02/2010

If Burke were the perp his white trash daddy wouldn't be so chummy with him today.%0D

by Anonymousreply 8310/02/2010

[quote]It's possible that Burt killed Jon Benet

We were dead at the time.

by Anonymousreply 8410/03/2010

If daddy thought Burke didn't mean to kill Jon Benet and felt sorry for what he did, he could still by "chummy" with him. You love your children, even when they do bad things, and you're much more likely to forgive your own flesh and blood child than anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 8510/03/2010

I hate Nancy Grace but I have to admit I'm interested in the Heighly Cummings case and the Casey Anthony case.

by Anonymousreply 8610/03/2010

I think Burk had something to do with Jean Bennett's death but the parents had to cover it up. No one sits around in an occupied house and writes a two page ransom note for a kid they already just doesn't happen.

by Anonymousreply 8710/03/2010

I think the Ramseys were hoping the cops would not find the body...then they were going to find a time and way to bury it.

by Anonymousreply 8810/03/2010

[quote]I believe they ruled out Patsy Ramsey's handwriting based on her exemplars. %0D %0D %0D You believe wrong. Patsy was the one person who submitted handwriting samples that the experts couldn't rule out as having written the note. %0D %0D Would knowing that you got the facts backward change your opinion as to her guilt?

by Anonymousreply 8910/03/2010

I always thought there were two separate crimes, the murder and the cover up.%0D %0D I think an intruder did the actual killing. But I think Patsy thought Burke did it, so she went ahead and covered up the crime. Once she started lying, there was no going back.

by Anonymousreply 9010/03/2010

R90, that is some idiotic thinking right there.

by Anonymousreply 9110/03/2010

I love that Nancy Grace is Pro victim. But I hate how she shows up her guest by correcting them on the air like they were children.

by Anonymousreply 9210/04/2010

I love that Miss Nancy does that. %0D %0D And some of her guests can hardly keep from laughing themselves.

by Anonymousreply 9310/04/2010

R79, I%E2%80%99ve always said that Burt was an evil little fucker, but no one would listen to me. I%E2%80%99m glad that someone finally can see through all that paper clip and bottle cap collecting, cooking oatmeal and watching pigeons bullshit and can see him for what he is.

by Anonymousreply 9410/04/2010

"Mommy, I accidentally murdered Jon Benet."

"Where did you put the body?"

"I forget."

"Okay. Run upstairs to Daddy's office and get me a pad of paper."

by Anonymousreply 9510/04/2010

If Nancy Grace were a DLer, she'd be posting bitchy comments about every typo or any concepts she doesn't understand.

by Anonymousreply 9610/04/2010

"I love that Nancy Grace is Pro victim."%0D %0D Yes, as opposed to all those Pro-murderer types clogging up the airways.

by Anonymousreply 9710/04/2010

r84 & 94,Ok, Ok...You know I meant BURKE.%0D %0D Um....I was getting him mixed up with Mr. Reynolds who was under suspicion in that screenwriter's murder during the filming of The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing.......

by Anonymousreply 9810/04/2010

Jon Benet had pineapple in her stomach when she died.

The Swiss Army knife was used to cut the pineapple.

The only prints on the knife were Burke's and Patsy's.

IIRC, that was the way it went.

by Anonymousreply 9910/04/2010

[quote] The Swiss Army knife was used to cut the pineapple.%0D %0D Where was Swiss Chick on the night of the murder?%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 10010/04/2010

Let's face it, the Ramsay's know who did had to be one of them.

by Anonymousreply 10110/04/2010

Just because JonBenet had a pineapple in her stomach doesn't mean it got there through her mouth.

by Anonymousreply 10210/04/2010

I said it the moment this story broke...the brother did it. Even before the parents became suspects.

by Anonymousreply 10310/04/2010

That ludicrous ransom note proves it was one of the family, imo. I think it had to be Burke. I don't think the police would cover up for one of the parents, but WTF do you do with a 9 year old killer? It would just be a mess - and nobody's gonna punish him anyway, so why pursue the thing.

by Anonymousreply 10410/04/2010

I'm thinking that Burke isn't merely being sought for questioning "to see what he remembers", but there's more evidence pointing to HIM now.

by Anonymousreply 10510/04/2010

So what happened to this news story? Is Burke off the hook?

by Anonymousreply 10601/19/2011


by Anonymousreply 10701/19/2011

Why does HLN dedicate an entire weekend to Nancy disGrace hashing on about this Jodi Arias murder case.

It's already overdone during the week, must we suffer an entire weekend as well??

by Anonymousreply 10803/09/2013

Burke most certainly did kill JBR. Burke had/has a history of inappropriate sexual acting out, and this is why HIS and only his medical records were blocked by the court from being accessed by the BPD or DA's office. There was a book written by James Kolar "Foreign Faction" which came out in 2012. Kolar was brought to Boulder from Telluride to do a complete investigation by the DA's office. It is a VERY dry and scientific/evidence based book. There is nothing lurid or gossipy about it. But it makes it very clear what happened in Kolar's opinion. And it's the only explanation which rings true.

by Anonymousreply 10903/09/2013
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