Following Wednesday's ruling striking down Proposition 8, Barbra Streisand released this statement of support:%0D %0D "With this judge's decision, we are closer to the day that all people will have access to the same fundamental rights. Hopefully, this remaining civil rights violation will soon be a part of our past and we can look to a future where all people will be treated equally under the law." %0D %0D Streisand's statement really rubbed playwright and activist Larry Kramer the wrong way, enough so for him to post this searing response on the ACT UP forum:%0D %0D "Barbra Streisand is a hypocrite. If she had made my play about AIDS, The Normal Heart, in 1986, when she first acquired the rights, only to sit on them for a full ten years without filming it, she could have done something for gay rights when we were really in the sewer of death. But no, she chose to go off and make such vitally important and classic movies as Nuts and The Mirror Has Two Faces. Barbra Streisand cares about gay rights as much as i care about spending a zillion dollars decorating a colony of houses in Malibu. As the mother of a son who is not only gay but HIV positive, she should be ashamed of herself. %0D %0D Fortunately and at last, an exciting movie version is now being prepared by openly gay director-producer Ryan Murphy to star Mark Ruffalo. i hope it will prove that the best thing that happened for The Normal Heart is that Barbra Streisand didn't make it. %0D %0D I think it is important for all her many gay fans around the world, which certainly had once included me, to know the above.
Larry Kramer is trashing Barbra!
|by Anonymous||reply 214||03/20/2013|
"Larry Kramer the wrong way, enough so for him to post this searing response on the ACT UP forum"
Translation: If only I had had the chance to make more money, I wouldn't trash Streisand.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||08/06/2010|
Uch, Larry Kramer.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||08/06/2010|
Did he just out her son as HIV positive? I knew Jason Gould was gay, didn't know he was HIV positive.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||08/06/2010|
Larry's credibility suffers in this rant, because he sounds like he's just pissed about his play. Very self-indulgent.%0D %0D As for him talking about her son, he was completely out of line. and BTW: Larry has no idea what Babs does or doesn't do.%0D %0D Choosing or not choosing to turn his play into a film is not THE litmus test for Babs. Sorry. Larry can be a real asshole. And I love him.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||08/06/2010|
Bitter...party of one!
|by Anonymous||reply 5||08/06/2010|
It's all about me!
|by Anonymous||reply 6||08/06/2010|
"vitally important and classic movies as Nuts and The Mirror Has Two Faces."
|by Anonymous||reply 7||08/06/2010|
This Larry Kramer sounds like a class-A asshole...%0D %0D To declare that someone is HIV just to get back at that person's mother is actually beyond asshole-dom...%0D %0D What a cunt!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 8||08/06/2010|
In the wake of the Prop 8 decisions, THIS is what Larry Kramer decides to focus on? Nice.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||08/06/2010|
this is clearly a professional grudge held firmly for years masquerading under the guise of political outrage.%0D %0D Larry is pissed because he willingly sold her the option and she considered but ultimately didn't make the movie. Fact of the business it happens every day, people by the option they don't legally or morally bind themselves to producing the project. The money was paid, Larry cashed the check and the deal was fulfilled by both parties.%0D %0D There is also the hubris of him thinking that a movie based on "The Normal Heart" produced in the late 80's would have had any significant impact on the gay rights movement.%0D %0D A movie that would be made without stars [at that time no star would touch it] would have been relegated to art house "preaching to the choir" status.%0D %0D He is mad because he has convinced himself that the option was some kind of promise and that the brilliance of his writing would have transformed the mass consciousness to support of gay rights.%0D %0D He is using a political front as a front to punish her for not making him richer.%0D %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 10||08/06/2010|
Aally, I saw "Nuts." It was pretty powerful at the time. Babs demonstrated serious acting chops.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||08/06/2010|
OMG, what a class A asshole. Horrible man. ALL of that nasty inappropriate rant simply because Streisand didn't make a movie that HE wanted her to make? As if making a movie of his play would have single-handedly cured AIDS or something? How does he know what Barbra has donated to or has done with her money and time over the years with regard to gay rights? %0D %0D He resembles the disease more than the cure.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||08/06/2010|
I thought it was well known that her son is HIV ?
|by Anonymous||reply 13||08/06/2010|
I'm with Larry. What did Barbra say when Prop. 8 passed? NOT A DAMN WORD. What has she done for AIDS awareness? NOT A DAMN THING. She all of a sudden decides she can get some publicity for a "correct" cause and so she issues a statement.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||08/06/2010|
r14, how do YOU know that Barbra "didn't say a damned word?" Are you a regular follower of her blogs or public appearances? What the hell is WRONG with you? Celebs couldn't change the law, for chrissake. Perhaps she donated money behind the scenes. And, anyway, why NOT make a positive statement at this time? Do you think it is every celebrity's life duty to go around making gay rights THEIR life's fucking purpose?%0D %0D CHIP ON YOUR GAY ASS SHOULDER MUCH?
|by Anonymous||reply 15||08/06/2010|
Larry sounds like the typical DL queen.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||08/06/2010|
Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Aug 6, 2010 8:58:42 AM%0D %0D Larry has made being a Bitter Old Queen totally FABULOUS! I can appreciate his anger at Babs for stringing him along for so long on the project. When she acquired it everyne naturally thought the movie was a done deal. But it wasn't. I very much look forward to Ryan Murphy doing it and Mark Ruffalo is perfect for the central role of Ned Weeks.%0D %0D That Jason is HIV has been known for a great many years but never discussed publically. He's no longer interested in acting, preferring to work behind the scenes instead.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||08/06/2010|
He makes a good point. The film version of NORMAL HEART would have brought a lot more awareness to AIDS had it been made when BS owned the option. Unfortunately that point gets obscured by his totally out of line outing of her son's HIV status. Beyond reprehensible.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||08/06/2010|
No he doesn't R16 -%0D %0D unless u consider yourself that "typical DL queen"%0D %0D That is - a total bitch%0D %0D This Kramer creature sounds positively sub-human. Just like u.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||08/06/2010|
It's no secret that Larry Kramer is a deeply unhappy person with a messiah complex.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||08/06/2010|
but the point is the way options work, nobody should have been considering the movie a "done deal" that is why it is called an option.%0D %0D How does he reason that she is a hypocrite? because she didn't do what he wanted her to do?%0D %0D just BUYING the option created press and probably did as much for awareness of Striesand's support of gay rights.%0D r10 again.%0D %0D How is she a hypocrite? Larry is a writer and an activist. His thinking on this couldn't be more muddled or more driven by his anger at her.%0D %0D This has nothing to do with gay rights and everything to do with his massive ego.%0D %0D It is also a questionable strategy to call out vocal famous supporters as hypocrites, when they aren't hypocrites and there is no evidence to support the claim.%0D %0D He is full of shit and he should apologize.%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 21||08/06/2010|
I HATE myself for having this thought about anyone but all I could think of after I read that rant was Larry: %0D %0D Just. Die. Already.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||08/06/2010|
The Normal Heart would have been an art house B film, folks. Babs paid for the rights and Kramer SOLD them to her. He should have been more discretionary about who he sold them to if he wanted to INSURE that a filmed adaptation got made so he could SAVE the FUCKING WORLD from AIDS. (eye roll) HE is the one who signed on the dotted line. And the assclown signed the check, too, I am sure.%0D %0D Kramer is a self-important douchebag of the highest order, the self-appointed Jesus Christ of the AIDS era. He really needs to get down off the cross, too. Angels in America was a good, theatrical "documentation," of sorts, but it didn't do diddly squat to find a cure for the disease now, did it? It sure didn't do anything for gay acceptance or tolerance from the religious right now, did it? %0D %0D What a reprehensible person.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||08/06/2010|
You know what? The Normal Heart is a lousy play. Barbra showed good judgment in not filming it. Too bad she didn't show the same good judgment and not make Nuts, an all-time career low for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||08/06/2010|
Larry Kramer was once considered the gay Al Sharpton, that is when Sharpton was a shrill asshole. %0D %0D However, Kramer should be happy that Streisand didn't make his play into a smaltzy messy movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||08/06/2010|
Kramer is in his 80s, isn't he? And he has AIDS. He probably gets confused and may have thought everyone knew Jason has AIDS, therefore he wouldn't have been outing him in his mind, only stating what he thought was commonly known. And the point of bringing Jason up was to make his mother look like a hypocrite for sitting on Kramer's AIDS-themed play.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||08/06/2010|
Yes he's egotistical and has trouble framing a rant. But he HAS a valid point. She sat on it, while it lost its currency, when she could she could have sold it on. That would have been the right thing -- not just for him, but to do justice to the piece. She IS equally egotistical, vain, and unlike him, can be breathtakingly vapid: that interview where she gushes endlessly about her dazzling insights into decorating her Malibu living room is all you need to hear to realise she could not only talk under wet concrete, but (after an hour in her company) you'd be wishing you could put her there.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||08/06/2010|
Obviously Mr Kramer feels that buying an OPTION for his play (for which, let us not forget, Ms Streisand PAID good money) not only allows him to moan, bitch and complain when it is not made (and again, let us not forget that Ms Streisand is reknowned as a slow woman with a dollar) BUT also apparently allows him to trash-talk about her family...%0D %0D Not coming soon to a theatre near you - anything by Larry Kramer
|by Anonymous||reply 28||08/06/2010|
>>This Larry Kramer%0D %0D As opposed to "that" Larry Kramer?%0D %0D Babs is a cunt and everyone knows it. What's the big deal?
|by Anonymous||reply 29||08/06/2010|
R26, most everyone DOES know that Jason is HIV positive. Only you don't.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||08/06/2010|
r10, here again%0D %0D R27, there isn't a point within 10 miles of Larry Kramer's rant.%0D %0D "The Normal Heart" NEVER HAD CURRENCY as a film the only thing that gave it any currency at all is the fact that Streisand optioned it.%0D %0D SHE gave the project any traction or currency it had in terms of becoming a film. %0D %0D Have to say the vapid one here is Larry Kramer. Shallow thinking led him to believe that had someone else held the option he would be polishing his oscar and counting his money.%0D %0D VERY unlikely scenario and his assertion that Streisand is a hypocrite is baseless.%0D %0D Maybe they differed on the screenplay, maybe the differed on casting, maybe she wanted changes he didn't want to make. %0D %0D Maybe she couldn't get a bankable male star interested in playing the role.%0D %0D Larry has no point and the vapidity is all his.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||08/06/2010|
Reading this thread made me realize that not many DLers know who Larry Kramer is. Interesting.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||08/06/2010|
R19, thank you for proving my point. You sound like a delight!
|by Anonymous||reply 33||08/06/2010|
"She sat on it, while it lost its currency, when she could she could have sold it on"%0D %0D To whom?%0D %0D Was the world queuing at her door to reimburse her for purchasing the rights to this piece?
|by Anonymous||reply 34||08/06/2010|
John Schlesinger had it after Streisand gave up -- it was after Kramer said he wanted to see the movie made before he died, and that she was such a lousy & slow producer. That was almost 15 years ago. %0D %0D Streisand is a slow producer, she's always been. No good excuses for it. If her livelyhood depended on being faster, she's have to get her ass in gear faster. Unfortunately for Kramer, she doesn't have to. %0D %0D John Schlesinger died in 2003. No movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||08/06/2010|
There just may be a tiny, eroded nugget of a point in Kramer's position, but it was ridiculous and outrageous to make this rant in this context, mentioning her son's condition.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||08/06/2010|
"R16....ROFLMAO!!!!!"%0D %0D Methinks the bitch doth protest too much...%0D %0D I mean, honestly - "ROFLMAO!!!!!" Are you 12?%0D %0D And five exclamation marks? Three at most, lovey.%0D %0D Four at a pinch, and then only under duress.%0D %0D Five just screams "I need help"%0D %0D Though I think we got that "ROFLMAO"
|by Anonymous||reply 37||08/06/2010|
btw -%0D %0D "If her livelyhood depended on being faster"%0D %0D Could someone start a thread -"you know you have spent too much time on MichFest threads when this seems like acceptable spelling"?
|by Anonymous||reply 38||08/06/2010|
r10 here again%0D %0D lets assume for the sake of argument that Larry had some tiny eroded nugget of a point somewhere in his tantrum.%0D %0D Although people on this thread have asserted that Larry "has a point" nobody has defined what that point is. %0D %0D But lets say he is justifiably angry at her for some unknown/unstated reason.%0D %0D Here is my question:%0D %0D Isn't it kind of tawdry for a gay rights activist of his stature to USE the issue of gay rights movement and the inequities gay people face as a MEANS to punish someone who didn't do what he wanted her to do?%0D %0D There is no argument or evidence that Streisand is a hypocrite over this issue of optioning and then not producing his screenplay.%0D %0D NONE. He can be angry at her for not doing it but there is nothing hypocritical in word or deed that substantiates it.%0D %0D He is hiding his anger behind a larger issue in an effort to punish her by questioning her courage.%0D %0D Yeah, when lots of hollywood heavy hitters MANY OF WHOM ARE GAY THEMSELVES didn't even consider optioning it.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||08/06/2010|
[quote]Reading this thread made me realize that not many DLers know who Larry Kramer is. Interesting.
Not interesting. Ignorance is only ever depressing.
Yes he's an egomaniac. BUT also a mammoth gay hero.
For his founding of Act Up, co-founding of the GMHC, his donation of a million dollars to Yale for gl studies, and for his righteous anger that makes that of Nan Michiganwomyn seem a mere moustached mouse -- we should all momentarily kneel.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||08/06/2010|
Years ago, while Streisand had the option, she held a public reading of the play in NYC with Eric Bogosian in the lead, so she must have been seriously considering making the movie.
Kramer's rant may be objectionable in many ways but he did not out Jason as HIV posotive. I definitely remember that being reported in the mainstream press.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||08/06/2010|
Despite all of that R40, he comes across as a self-important egomaniac (is that redundant?) who outed an unashamedly gay man as HIV because he has a grudge against that man's mother...%0D %0D When Jason says he is HIV or has AIDS, then it becomes public domain...%0D %0D Until then, Kramer is WAY out of order...%0D %0D And let's remember - the old bugger was undoubtedly paid very well for his script...
|by Anonymous||reply 42||08/06/2010|
"BUT also a mammoth gay hero."%0D %0D Not really.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||08/06/2010|
Why isn't the (plus sign) showing up in my post?
|by Anonymous||reply 44||08/06/2010|
R41, Streisand wanted Ralph Fiennes for the lead because he was popular in the mid-1990s, yet not available when she wanted him, so the wait, the wait, the wait...
|by Anonymous||reply 45||08/06/2010|
I like Larry Kramer, but he's way off on this one. The assumption that a film adaption of his play would have changed public perception on AIDS is a stretch and bringing her son into it is just not cool.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||08/06/2010|
Can anyone link to Jason being reported as having AIDS in the mainstream press? I remember the rumor being reported, but I don't remember it being confirmed or it necessarily being a mainstream story. Whether it was just a rumor or not though, Kramer may have thought it was confirmed so he wasn't necessarily being malicious in referring to it.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||08/06/2010|
[quote] Kramer may have thought it was confirmed so he wasn't necessarily being malicious in referring to it.
Bulls#$%. Larry Kramer knew exactly what he was doing. He's no fool.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||08/06/2010|
Why does anyone have to take sides here?%0D %0D Can't we just enjoy it for the pure entertainment value?%0D %0D I love these sorts of eruptions.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||08/06/2010|
Oh no, r49-most of us are sitting here beside our Barbra doll (as seen on Oprah) irked to death that somebody would say something negative about OUR Barbra. She is such a friend to the gays. BTW, Jason has been out with his diagnosis for YEARS-if you queens had been paying attention instead of watching Funny Lady every three days you would have learned about something called "google".
|by Anonymous||reply 50||08/06/2010|
"Why does anyone have to take sides here?%0D %0D Can't we just enjoy it for the pure entertainment value?"%0D %0D We could, but Kramer seems to delight in collateral damage. %0D %0D WTF does poor Jason's HIV status got to do with Kramer's bitch-fest against Babs? %0D %0D (I have never seen Kramer's play (and after this, I suspect that no-one will) but the synopsis sounds- to be fair - a bit crap...)
|by Anonymous||reply 51||08/06/2010|
Larry - sorry, I mean r50...%0D %0D Take your meds...
|by Anonymous||reply 52||08/06/2010|
People Who Can Bitchslap Barbra Are The Luckiest People In The World.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||08/06/2010|
His normal heart has turned into a bitter heart.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||08/06/2010|
Larry is just repeating the same rumor he has heard about Jason. We have all heard it since Karl Rove started spreading it in the 1990's to blackmail Barbra. He doesn't have direct evidence or proof about Jason's HIV status - until I hear something from him or his mom I say it's just a rumor.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||08/06/2010|
He's a fucking egomaniac. Did he give the money back in protest? He got to do something a lot of young fags did not. He got to be an old man. You would think he would have mellowed and actually enjoy life and he's still seems to think the world revolves around him.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||08/06/2010|
Kramer is a legend in his own mind. Once that bitter little troll is dead, he will be forgotten. His body of work will be largely forgotten in a matter of years after that.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||08/06/2010|
The thing about Larry Kramer is that he has done vitally important work as an activist which cannot be denied and which he deserves much respect AND he's an insufferable smug asshole (at least much of the time) who makes many things about him.
It's never either-or.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||08/06/2010|
The Normal Heart is a piece of shit and Larry Kramer needs to shut the fuck up.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||08/06/2010|
r58 is right. However, in this case, he's making it all about HIM.%0D %0D I'm not one of those BS queens who thinks she walks on water. She is hardly a hypocrite. She has always openly supported gay rights over the years and LK's comments are totally baseless, uncalled for and truly disgusting.%0D %0D hey r14 - [quote]Barbra Streisand and actor-director Rob Reiner are among the Hollywood celebrities expected to attend a $25,000-a-plate fundraiser to support the %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CNo on 8%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%B3 effort on Tuesday at the Los Angeles home of billionaire Ron Burkle.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||08/06/2010|
LOL. I read this as he was trashing Barbie...the barbie doll. This is somewhat disappointing I must say.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||08/06/2010|
R40, hell no will I kneel in respect of Kramer and his ACT UP group. I was there back in the day and I remember ACT UP did more to hurt us then help us in the upheavel days of AIDS. ACT UP was not favored by the majority of the gay community and many of their civil disobediant displays were roundly criticized and rejected by the gay community.%0D %0D The Gay Men's Health Crisis was a whole different ball of wax. That it was the first community wide response to the AIDS cirsis was a crowning glory...but it wasn't done by Kramer alone.%0D %0D As to Jason. I remember a documentary he did not too long ago, I don't really remember what it was about but he does mention he has AIDS in the documentary. That said, they way Kramer used that information in his rant was irreverant at best and at worst diminishes any point he was trying to make, what ever that was.%0D %0D One movie would not have made a hill of beans of a difference. The movie that was made back then, Randy Shilts book, "And the Band Played On" chronicling in dramatic terms the AIDS crisis from patient zero to current times only helped to further understand this was not a "gay disease" but a human disease. How much help was it? Not much, but some. It took years...AIDS turned out to give conservative politicians the license to discriminate against all things gay, openly. %0D %0D I agree with one post, Kramer should be thrilled he got what so many gay men never got, the chance to grow old.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||08/06/2010|
What about her attendance at a tea-party cheer where she solidly applauded the head tea party master?%0D %0D There is a thread on it several weeks ago. Search it.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||08/06/2010|
Because you're not positive, r44?
|by Anonymous||reply 64||08/06/2010|
[quote]If she had made my play about AIDS, The Normal Heart, in 1986, when she first acquired the rights, only to sit on them for a full ten years without filming it, she could have done something for gay rights when we were really in the sewer of death.
Uh, explain to us how that would have worked, Lar. Did you think your crappy self-sentimentalizing play was going to be a hit movie and change hearts and minds everywhere? Don't think so.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||08/06/2010|
[quote]Larry has made being a Bitter Old Queen totally FABULOUS!
Gee, imagine this coming from the keyboard of David Ehrenstein...
|by Anonymous||reply 66||08/06/2010|
Streisand has GIVEN MORE AWAY to AIDS foundations than the one hit, err sorry semi-one hit wonder ("The Normal Heart" never even made it Broadway, the goal of every playwright) has probably made in his whole career.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||08/06/2010|
"After age fifty, you get the face you deserve"--my grandmother
|by Anonymous||reply 68||08/06/2010|
[quote]What about her attendance at a tea-party cheer where she solidly applauded the head tea party master?
I had forgotten what a seminal moment that was in the fight to combat AIDS. That moment really saved a million lives.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||08/06/2010|
He's right, of course. A lot of these self-congratulating liberals who make BANK off the gay community were curiously silent during the 80s and 90s (Miss Griffin too I dare say). I have no problem with his being miffed at them. In my own life I have rich assholes who were homophobic assholes come up to me and coo about what friends we all were in college when in truth they treated me like a vile disease. I get mad about this all the time, but when they are doing the right thing now, we can at least give them credit. And I think it highly likely that Barbra S. was one of the people who may not have done much but was certainly on the right side back then, or else she never would have bought the thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||08/06/2010|
I always felt "The Normal Heart" was too self-congratulatory. Basically listen to Larry and forget what every one else says.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||08/06/2010|
This is so like Larry Kramer. As always, he casts himself as this messiah figure: if ONLY she had made his movie, THEN everyone would have behaved differently and AIDS would now be cured because his play was that important and that powerful. Also, he pathetically attacks powerful people by going after their children (just like he stupidly did in his play JUST SAY NO, where he tried to go after the Reagans by trying to expose Ron Jr. as gay). And finally, he reveals himself as such a nasty hater. How can he still give a shit about this so many years later, especially since the play is actually being made into a movie now?
I've never liked him, and I agree ACT-UP did nothing to help the gay community during the AIDS crisis (and as for the money he gave to Yale to start up gay and lesbian studies: he held up that money for years and years after Yale was ready to implement it because he arrogantly assumed that the money guaranteed him the right to tell the school how gay and lesbian studies could be taught and by whom... an obnoxious threat to academic freedom).
|by Anonymous||reply 72||08/06/2010|
LOL!!! Utterly pathetic. Next Jennifer Holiday will be slamming Babs for telling her NOT to lose all that weight.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||08/06/2010|
David E agrees with him... That's all you need to know about Larry.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||08/06/2010|
Great film plug Larry. You DISGUST me you animal, who are you to drag her son into this?
So your film did not get made for ten years you rancid piece of shit, I hope it dies at the box office and you see jack shit in the way of $$$$ which clearly is all you care about.
RANCID PIECE OF SHIT!
|by Anonymous||reply 75||08/06/2010|
"He's a fucking egomaniac."%0D %0D And she is....?
|by Anonymous||reply 76||08/06/2010|
Larry Kramer is inherently a deeply angry man whom we were fortunate enough to have around at a time when deep anger was needed and appropriate.
In real life, though, he really is every bit as solipsistic, aggressive, self-serving and cruel as has been widely reported.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||08/06/2010|
I for one am grateful they waited for the heart-melting Mark Ruffalo to come along before they made it.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||08/06/2010|
AIDS dementia. Just feel sorry for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||08/06/2010|
The Normal Heart is a period piece at this point. It was extremely notable at the time for being an important piece of gay theater and of contemporary theater, an extremely important call for action about AIDS care and prevention, and also in bringing well-needed awareness to problems facing the gay community. But we have moved on. Thank god.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||08/06/2010|
This is Barbra from last night, looking better than she's looked in years. Scroll down for photos. %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 81||08/06/2010|
I told Larry, "Are you gonna let that Jewish bitch tell you what to say?"
|by Anonymous||reply 82||08/06/2010|
Larry...you in danger girl!
|by Anonymous||reply 83||08/06/2010|
who's the real hypocrite?%0D %0D kramer doesnt give shit about prop. 8..%0D %0D its all about the fact that she didnt make his fucking movie.%0D %0D kramer lives in NY...but he's a hack who belongs in Hollywood.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 84||08/06/2010|
I wish I ken where the little shit head lived
|by Anonymous||reply 85||08/06/2010|
Perhaps, Streisand assured Kramer that she would make the film and then lo and behold it just gathered dust for years, eventually becoming irrelevant.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||08/06/2010|
[quote]Perhaps, Streisand assured Kramer that she would make the film and then lo and behold it just gathered dust for years, eventually becoming irrelevant.
Doesn't that happen ALL the time in Hollywood. Not that it wouldn't be disappointing, but hardly so unexpected that it would make someone go that crazy.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||08/06/2010|
Larry's really a vindictive bitch. She's really fallen in my esteem.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||08/06/2010|
Larry should thank Barbara for buying him a new liver!
|by Anonymous||reply 89||08/06/2010|
|by Anonymous||reply 90||08/06/2010|
Larry Kramer is a hack. As far as Gay and Lesbian Studies go, no one takes him seriously. "The Normal Heart?" Melodrama. It has the same relevance as "The Boys in the Band" or "Tea and Sympathy." It is a period work, and does not read well. %0D %0D Barbra will survive and endure long after Kramer is done with his kvetching.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||08/06/2010|
I hate the way he makes me feel
|by Anonymous||reply 92||08/06/2010|
Wait a minute!%0D %0D I thought the reason "The Normal Heart" wasn't made was because Kramer and Streisand disagreed on one line of the play where one character says that they are not the same. (I've never read or seen the play, so someone help me out.) Barbra hated the line and wanted it changed, because she felt everyone was essentially the same regardless of color sexual orientation, etc. while Kramer felt gays and straights were vastly different. %0D %0D Neither would budge on the line change, so the project stalled. %0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 93||08/06/2010|
Asshole that Kramer is, R91, he earned a place in gay & lesbian history with his '79 novel, "Faggots".
|by Anonymous||reply 94||08/06/2010|
Larry Kramer can blow me!
|by Anonymous||reply 95||08/06/2010|
Well sure, I suppose it would have been a good thing if Barbra had made the movie, "The Normal Heart," but it wasn't going to change the world. "Philadelphia" with Tom Hanks, but it didn't change the world.%0D %0D Barbra made the movies she wanted to make, and "Nuts" and "The Mirror Has Two Faces" were both pretty damn good. Not to mention "The Prince of Tides," which was brilliant.%0D %0D So Kramer, "If she had made my movie...?" blah, blah, blah. STFU!
|by Anonymous||reply 96||08/06/2010|
Help the Streisand trolls have taken over DL
|by Anonymous||reply 97||08/06/2010|
The Normal Heart isn't about AIDS, it's about Larry Kramer.
If you're talking AIDS, a film version of Faggots would have been more helpful in the mid-1980s, since it's about the dawning of a more mature attitude towards sex in the gay community. Actually, if I were to adapt any Kramer work for the screen, that's the one I'd pick.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||08/06/2010|
"Brillant"? R96. You gotta be kidding me
|by Anonymous||reply 99||08/06/2010|
If Kramer has evidence that Barbra's not making The Normal Heart was somehow politically motivated or otherwise homophobic, he can make that case. But ascribing her statement lauding the decision finding Prop 8 unconstitutional as hypocrisy because she didn't make his play into a film is presumptuous.
If this is a woman who didn't care about gay rights, why did she bother getting the rights to that play in the first place?
I'm no fan of Barbra as a filmmaker (I haven't been for long before she acquired The Normal Heart). However, isn't Kramer showing himself to be a hypocrite by his voicing that he also has no faith in her talent as a filmmaker, on the one hand, and his willingness to have her take on the screen adaptation of his play on the other?
|by Anonymous||reply 100||08/06/2010|
"Tides" was enjoyable schlock, and that's about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||08/06/2010|
I feel the words building inside me, I can't stop them, or tell you why I say them, but as I reach the top of the bridge these words come to me in a whisper. I say these words as a prayer, as regret, as praise, I say: Lowenstein, Lowenstein...
|by Anonymous||reply 102||08/06/2010|
Agreed. Tons of plays and novels gather dust once their screen rights are purchased. To argue that The Normal Heart lay stagnant because Streisand doesn't give a shit about gay rights is quite a leap.
Mr. Kramer, to suggest that gay rights would have moved light years ahead of where they are now if we long ago had seen a film version of The Normal Heart is ridiculous. What political capital could The Normal Heart have produced that other well meaning films on HIV, e.g. Long Time Companion, and other films and television programs staunchly supporting gays, e.g. Bent, Tales of the City, haven't?
And included in those is the tv film Streisand produced about gays in the military, with Glenn Close and Judy Davis.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||08/06/2010|
true, she made a lot of crap but she also produced Serving in Silence, a satisfying tv movie and a project just as important for gay rights as an adaptation of The Normal Heart would have proved. Larry, you are losing it.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||08/06/2010|
Really Larry? how quickly you forget..
|by Anonymous||reply 105||08/06/2010|
R99, R101...Tides was brilliant, and Barbra did a superb job of taking the novel and condensing it into two hours. It was a great, great book and movie.%0D %0D But you're probably the types who nothing she ever does would make you happy or deserve praise.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||08/06/2010|
My fave Barbra quote of all time:
"Why do you sound so ACCUSATORY?"
|by Anonymous||reply 107||08/06/2010|
[quote]Tides was brilliant, and Barbra did a superb job of taking the novel and condensing it into two hours. It was a great, great book and movie.
What crappy, crappy taste you have.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||08/06/2010|
[quote]Reading this thread made me realize that not many DLers know who Larry Kramer is. Interesting.%0D %0D He's Seinfeld's neighbor that had that rant at the comedy club about Black people.%0D %0D Duh.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||08/06/2010|
Mentioning her son's health - that broke the shovel for me.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||08/06/2010|
Don't you idiots realize that Larry Kramer is a hero.
Don't you know that at the beginning of the AIDS crisis, his loud voice was one of the only ones speaking out?
Most gay men wanted him to shut his mouth, while people were getting sick and dying.
Larry Kramer committed social suicide (later vindicated) in NYC because he insisted on action. That's what "The Normal Heart" is about.
Larry Kramer was, and is a hero, and anybody who think's he's just a cranky bitter old queen has no concept of what he did.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||08/06/2010|
Still doesn't give him any right to spread rumors about Jason Gould's HIV status (which the consensis has been around here that rumor was created by Streisand's political enemies anyway).
|by Anonymous||reply 112||08/06/2010|
Mark Ruffalo is completely miscast as a Kramer-surrogate. You want a lean guerilla fighter in the role, not a disheveled fuckin' teddy bear.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||08/06/2010|
Barbra is like a mother who aborts her child at 9 months - is that what he's getting at?
|by Anonymous||reply 114||08/06/2010|
Yeah, r111, that's pretty much the history of Larry Kramer according to Larry Kramer. And it's partially true. There's no denying he was a hero of the moment. But not the only one. Even back then, at the very worst moment, there were gay men (and women, and straight allies) whose activism was just as committed and just as important as Larry's, but who were willing to do the hard, hard work of organizing and protesting and making crucial alliances with the medical and research communities without making their own anger the center of every issue, which was Larry's specialty.
Larry was briefly a hero, and always an asshole, and if his name is remembered and invoked more often than that of a dozen gay activists who did much more than he did, it's because A) he wanted it that way and B) he was lucky enough to live.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||08/06/2010|
[quote]Even back then, at the very worst moment, there were gay men (and women, and straight allies) whose activism was just as committed and just as important as Larry's
|by Anonymous||reply 116||08/06/2010|
[quote]Larry Kramer was, and is a hero, and anybody who think's he's just a cranky bitter old queen has no concept of what he did.
He may have SAVED hundreds, if not thousands of lives through ActUp enabling early release of drugs, the GMHC, and his early and continued warnings.
He certainly made a significant different to thousands of lives because of them.
As far as I'm concerned he can damn well say anything he likes.
And as for the mental pygmies slagging him - one only has to ask this:
WHAT HAVE YOU ACHIEVED FOR OTHERS?
When you can detail here what you've done for other people that amounts to even 0.1% of that, then I'll be prepared to listen to you.
Until then, you can royally fuck off.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||08/06/2010|
So that means we can't criticize him for his nasty attitude R111? Yes, he did a lot of things for the gay cause, but he was not the only one working out there in the trenches during those times. Nor was he the only one writing powerful and thought provoking gay pieces. %0D %0D His statement smacks of the worst kind of arrogance. If she had only done HIS play. Why not, if she had done a gay themed play or work of literature in general? She did do a lesbian themed TV movie that was well received. Why didn't he point that out? Oh, right, because it wasn't HIS work. Therefore, it isn't good enough. %0D %0D Why didn't he also address the millions she's given to numerous charities (AIDS and gay related included) or the successful boycott of Colorado that she initiated at an AMFAR benefit? Surely, those were every bit as important as making a movie?%0D %0D And bringing up her kids HIV is disgusting. She has never addressed it in public, and for him to do so is the worst kind of petty, cheap shot to make. He should be ashamed of himself.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||08/06/2010|
Excuse you R117, but charity is not a contest. We should be grateful for anyone and everyone who helps out for the cause, whether it be for one person or a group. %0D %0D Nor does he have the right to out someones son (with rumors that have never been confirmed), and use AIDS as a smear tactic. For someone who first hand dealt with the grotesque stigma of AIDS in the eighties, this is digsusting and inexcusable. No, he doesn't have to the right to do what he wants in this case!%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 119||08/06/2010|
Barbra has been trying for the past 2 years to finally get TNH made, but Kramer fought her at every turn. She had already lined up the financing thru Paramount, got Ben Stiller and Julia Roberts to agree to star in the movie, and scouted filming locations in NYC in the Fall of 2009. %0D %0D Kramer sabotoged the movie at the last minute by demanding more money and refusing to make some minor changes to the script, which Barbra felt were essential to make the film a success.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||08/06/2010|
Read "And The Band Played On," r116. I'm not going to do your homework for you. But for starters, Rodger McFarlane.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||08/06/2010|
quote]Tides was brilliant, and Barbra did a superb job of taking the novel and condensing it into two hours. It was a great, great book and movie.
[quote]What crappy, crappy taste you have.
I didn't post that, but I ran a movie theater and I played it to crowds around the block for weeks. It also happened to be nominated for seven Academy Awards including Best Picture as well as The Golden Globe. It also had nominations from The Los Angeles Film Critics Association Awards, The Writers Guild of America, Directors Guild of America, Boston Society of Film Critics Awards,& American Society of Cinematographers.
Just because YOU didn't like it means shit. I'd tell you to shove your "taste" up your ass but it wouldn't fit with your head up there already.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||08/06/2010|
[quote]CHIP ON YOUR GAY ASS SHOULDER MUCH?
What's an ass shoulder?
|by Anonymous||reply 123||08/06/2010|
|by Anonymous||reply 124||08/06/2010|
[quote]Barbra has been trying for the past 2 years to finally get TNH made, but Kramer fought her at every turn. She had already lined up the financing thru Paramount, got Ben Stiller and Julia Roberts to agree to star in the movie, and scouted filming locations in NYC in the Fall of 2009
Thank god that fell through. Seriously.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||08/06/2010|
[quote]As far as I'm concerned he can damn well say anything he likes.
Why? Doing great things gets you a free pass? I'm R58, and I previously stated that Kramer's activism is unassailable. He deserves respect, his work was hugely important, and gay people should respect him for that. But he is ALSO, often, a smug, self-centered, asshole.
Not just Kramer, but lots of public figures and celebs - people let them ride their own coattails forever. If you do great things, you can forever say anything you like without criticism?
|by Anonymous||reply 126||08/06/2010|
I never said that Kramer was the ONLY hero. And yes, he is, and has always been abrasive and lacking in diplomacy.
But he is a hero! And a hero doesn't have to be a saint.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||08/06/2010|
"Most gay men wanted him to shut his mouth"
|by Anonymous||reply 128||08/06/2010|
.. except when he had someone's dick in his mouth...
|by Anonymous||reply 129||08/06/2010|
I'm glad Streisand never made it because it would have been a CRAPPY MOVIE. And she would have played the Dr. Mathilde Krim character and all you'd see is Barbra and her fab fingernails. And she would have undoubtedly cast Jason as the guy who works in Ned's office and he would have sapped the energy out of those scenes.
Ruffalo is great casting for Ned, reminiscent of Brad Davis, who created the role.
I wonder if Scott Rudin is involved with the film version.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||08/06/2010|
Had David been diagnosed HIV Positive when he did the play?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||08/06/2010|
I think Ben Stiller would have been fantastic as Ned Weeks. He's a much better fit than Ruffalo. Stiller was very eager to get a dramatic part like this and you can bet he would have knocked it out of the park....he probably would have won the Oscar.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||08/06/2010|
Davis, not David
|by Anonymous||reply 133||08/06/2010|
This Brad Davis?
|by Anonymous||reply 134||08/06/2010|
Barbra had also interviewed Ruffalo for the starring role before deciding that Stiller was a better fit and hungrier for it.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||08/06/2010|
[quote]You know what? The Normal Heart is a lousy play. Barbra showed good judgment in not filming it. Too bad she didn't show the same good judgment and not make Nuts, an all-time career low for her.
I guess you're not familiar with The Main Event?
|by Anonymous||reply 136||08/06/2010|
Streisand was long out of the picture before the Ben Stiller version of this project came into being. She had nothing to do with that version--but Kramer still managed to torpedo it.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||08/06/2010|
Why didn't she make the movie 20 years ago is THE QUESTION. Back then it would have been significant.
Larry Kramer has always trampled on the sensibilities of the delicate for a good cause. Cheers.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||08/06/2010|
thanks for the link r134
|by Anonymous||reply 139||08/06/2010|
[quote]Why didn't she make the movie 20 years ago is THE QUESTION.
I have no idea why she didn't make the movie 20 years ago.
But thinking rationally, which do you think makes more sense?
1) She didn't make the movie for any of the reasons that movies don't get made (financial, timing, talent, creative, etc.), or
2) Decades of political activism and donations notwithstanding, she actually doesn't support gay rights.
Which do you think is more likely?
|by Anonymous||reply 140||08/06/2010|
Stiller would have been better casting because it's mentioned in the play he's a bulldog and not attractive (like Kramer). And abrasive (like Kramer). Ruffalo is too adorable.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||08/06/2010|
Larry Kramer didn't invent queer activism. Sure, he wrote those pieces in the NEW YORK NATIVE, and he was yelling about AIDS - GRID, at first - before most people were willing to discuss it publicly. But that's because Kramer had more access than most lesbians or gays - he'd published FAGGOTS, a novel that had a certain amount of impact, for a "gay" book. Also, he was rich. And white. And male. And he had contacts in the NYC media-elite community. Certainly he was a "somebody" in the A List homo community in NYC. And he knew show bizzy types, given his work on films like WOMEN IN LOVE and of course LOST HORIZON (or as Bette Midler called it, LOST HER REASON: "I never miss a Liv Ullman musical"). Plus he'd gone to Yale, and he was a member of the NYC ivy league mafia. And dare I say it, but he was a smart, connected, social, energetic, New York Jewish guy: right up there in the mainstream of Manhattan power and influence. And he lived in Mayor Ed Koch's building!
The dude had connections, and he could get his voice heard.
Lots of people were working as hard as Kramer, but they're weren't connected in the same ways he was.
And this is not his fault, but: reputation-wise, Kramer benefited from the longstanding tradition of the hetero New York media elite singling out JUST ONE QUEER to stand in for the entire community. The NYTIMES would allow itself ONE QUEER. The House Homo, if you will. The NYC media wasn't interested in showing the world a diversity of queers, it was interested in anointing ONE WHITE GUY as the spokesmodel for Everyhomo. Kramer got singled out, he got to be the political spokesmodel. Edmund White was the literary spokesmodel. But Ed White was in Paris during a big chunk of the '80s. Fran Lebowitz was the funny spokesmodel. But Lebowitz was not really "out." So there was Kramer.
Okay, there were other people with his connections, and he made the most noise of all of them, in public. But there were many, many heroic women and men involved with GMHC and ACT UP in the early days of those two organizations; and there were many, many women and men across the country who were NOT media figures, and yet who did incredible work towards fighting AIDS.
It's frustrating when, for instance, THE NEW YORKER runs a profile of Kramer that depicts him as the "lone voice against AIDS, the inventor of AIDS activism," etc. Kramer played his part. He also undermined things. He is not a team player, he is a megalomaniac, and he quits groups as soon as he is no longer the sole leader.
And let's not trash ACT UP. One of the great accomplishments of ACT UP was its refusing to allow itself a "leader." It was not a group that believed in demagogues. It was a group that understood that the collective needed to act AS a collective. There were many people in ACT UP who facilitated the work of the group, but there was not - and this was its point - a single leader.
ACT UP was important not just in what it did to speed up drug trials and expedite the development of drugs that are keeping people alive today. I mean, it was CRUCIALLY important in that process. But it was also important - unique, in my experience of politics - in its modeling a structure that empowered all its members, each and every member, and discouraged the notion that a political or social movement needed an idol at its center, a superstar, a demagogue. ACT UP was democratic, it was amazing, and one of the great tragedies of the so-called LGBT movement these days is how it has buried, erased, forgotten the unique and miraculous and life-saving and culture-changing work that ACT UP did.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||08/06/2010|
[quote]When you can detail here what you've done for other people that amounts to even 0.1% of that, then I'll be prepared to listen to you.
Like we give a shit.
[quote]Until then, you can royally fuck off.
Well, you can issue forth commandments until you're blue in the face, Witchiepoo, but we'll come and go exactly as we please and say whatever the fuck we like.
Get OVER yourself!
|by Anonymous||reply 143||08/06/2010|
I'm please that people can really see this animal for what he is, a self publicist of the highest order who will do anything to drag himself into the limelight, he's the Norma Desmond of the literary world. "I am big it's the plays that got small"!
I hope no one goes to see this new version of his play, I hope that funding is withdrawn that the cast question it's relevance today.
To mention anything pertaining to Barbra's son is off mark even for Krammer. This really was the last nail in his coffin.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||08/07/2010|
[quote]As to Jason. I remember a documentary he did not too long ago, I don't really remember what it was about but he does mention he has AIDS in the documentary.
Respectfully, no you didn't. That is a false memory.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||08/07/2010|
"Streisand cares about gay rights as much as i care about spending a zillion dollars decorating a colony of houses in Malibu."%0D %0D Another zigger to the heart. She built small five houses on her property in Malibu (on Highway 1,%0D but opposite side from the ocean)%0D and decorated them in different styles. She also brought in full-grown trees and plants from all over the world.%0D %0D Fine, except that all the activity was a constant annoyance to the dozen or more families who lived in modest houses on the same street.%0D They took Streisand to court, and the judge established rules under which she then had to operate.%0D %0D Kramer knows this is not a pleasant memory, so, of corse, he decided to throw it in as well. What a jerk.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||08/07/2010|
She didn't build the houses, she bought them up on the surrounding property. The whole estate is 22.5 acres. She donated the entire estate to The Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy. The neighbors didn't sue Barbra. They sued the Conservancy because they set up tours as "Tour Barbara Streisand's Malibu House" and even Streisand had them take her name of Conservancy.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||08/07/2010|
I don't believe it ever says the character is unattractive in the play.
fuck, he was originally played by Brad Davis, hardly an unattractive man. Stiller might have been interesting as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not sure about Roberts as Matilda. Why not Frannie Macdormand?
|by Anonymous||reply 148||08/07/2010|
He needs to give it a rest--the whole Normal Heart catfight was, what, 20 years ago? I wonder if Jason Gould will sue--I kind of hope so.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||08/07/2010|
The reason the Conservancy had to resort to tours and weddings is that Streisand left either no money, or very little money, for the upkeep of the compound.%0D %0D Again, the compound is at the end of a road with relatively small houses%0D on both sides of the street. I am sure Streisand had people bused in for her concert in the 1980s. %0D %0D But, there was no way to molify the neighbors with all the trucks coming and going from Highway 1 into her property. Your link only discusses the current situation, not the issues that arose when Streisand actually lived there.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 150||08/07/2010|
Jason is a private person, he is no longer a performer and has not been for some time, why pull him into his mess?
I find this whole thing very under hand
|by Anonymous||reply 151||08/07/2010|
R148, it's not mentioned explicitly in the play that Ned is physically unattractive but a major plot point is that someone who is is shunted forth to be the new leader of ACT-UP-he was played in the original production by the gorgeous soap opera actor David Alan Brooks.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||08/07/2010|
r 152, your post makes no sense.
And, as for whether or not Ned Weeks is cute:
He's been played by Brad Davis, Joel Grey, and Raul Esparza, among others, all of them totally attractive.
I think it's a great part for Mark Ruffalo.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||08/07/2010|
Shouln't we wait to hear what Celine Dion has to say?
|by Anonymous||reply 154||08/07/2010|
ACT UP was a mess. I belonged to a chapter, and it was a complete disaster. Nobody knew what to do, and then a whole bunch of MichFest-type women joined and insisted we make it pro-lesbian, pro-children, and pro-green. It eventually fell apart--like all ACT-UP chapters did--because of the stupid wrangling and in-fighting.
It started filled with promise (I and my friends who joined really hoped we would be doing something positive during the worst time of the AIDS crisis), but I really don't think it accomplished very much.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||08/07/2010|
Joel Grey was attractive?
|by Anonymous||reply 156||08/07/2010|
I've been around forever, and while I'm just a gay man and not a fabulous activist and writer, I can say from a detached perspective that I've never heard a decent, objective, non-self-regarding word ever come out of Larry Kramer's mouth.
I never felt he represented me or my interests beyond outrage. I appreciated his outrage, and shared it, and feel sure he did some good, but Lord what a nasty tool.
His statement about Streisand reads like he said, "If only she had made a movie out of the play she paid me for, everyone would have been cured a long time ago. It's her fault AIDS continued to kill people." That's idiocy. That's Kramer.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||08/07/2010|
Yeah, R153, your mentioning Joel Grey totally blew your argument out of the water. Grey's a meeskite.%0D %0D I remember seeing the very pretty John Shea play it in London (he'd replaced Martin Sheen) and all anyone could talk about was how wrong he was to play Ned because he was so good-looking. It's Larry Kramer, for chrissakes, who's the anti-Viagra if ever there was one.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||08/07/2010|
I feel the same way, 158. There are those of us who would have wanted the drug trials to proceed in a more thorough, less abbreviated manner as well. %0D %0D Haste makes waste, and two of my partners were wasted over the course of 9 years.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||08/07/2010|
Can I just ask, what's with the overalls?
|by Anonymous||reply 160||08/07/2010|
r160, they just prove how fabulous and fashion-forward Larry is.
In two years, we will all be wearing overalls. Well, except for Anna Wintour, who will have started wearing them a year earlier than that, just to catch up with Larry.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||08/07/2010|
Read the play. When Ned has his first date with Felix he says "You're very good-looking-what are you doing here?"
And later in the play Bruce is put in place of Ned because he has a "more presentable" face for the organization. The volunteer guys swoon over Bruce, not over Ned.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||08/07/2010|
Larry Kramer is a Datalounge lurker. Moreover, he has posted several times over the years identifying himself, only to disappear again. (The most infamous event was when he posted here once on World AIDS Day, berating everyone for not doing more to combat the AIDS crisis, and David Ehrenstein tried immediately to suck up to him: "Hi, Larry!!!") I would not be surprised at all to discover he is monitoring this very thread and even that he has posted here defending himself in the third person.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||08/07/2010|
Can you imagine how sentimental and corny Streisand would have made the film? Kramer should have teamed up with director Ken Russell again to make it.
Just so you understand about Barbra's appalling taste, she sat on and then lost the chance to play Sarah Bernhardt for Russell in the 70s, in a fabulous original script. Her loss.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||08/07/2010|
Glenda Jackson or Vanessa Redgrave as Dr Emma Brookner.... oh the unrealized genius of it!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 165||08/07/2010|
Emma Thompson as Brookner!
|by Anonymous||reply 166||08/07/2010|
"Well, you can issue forth commandments until you're blue in the face, Witchiepoo, but we'll come and go exactly as we please and say whatever the fuck we like."
Forgive me, it's so childish--but I've been giggling over this for the last few minutes.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||08/07/2010|
Miranda Richardson as Brookner. Her rage would be palpable.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||08/07/2010|
Jennifer Jason Leigh as Brookner. Her rage would be mannered.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||08/07/2010|
Justine Bateman. Her rage would be very lucid.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||08/07/2010|
Roma Downey. No rage at all.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||08/07/2010|
Joel Grey was totally cute in 1972.
I hope my link works!
|by Anonymous||reply 172||08/07/2010|
Loved that comment about Barbra and her manicured fingernails playing Brookner. How can you not howl?
|by Anonymous||reply 173||08/07/2010|
Laura Linney should play Dr. Emma Brookner.%0D %0D Say what you want about Streisand, the director, but she knows how to direct other actors. All 3 of her directed movies have produced Oscar acting nominations--Amy Irving(Yentl); Nick Nolte & Kate Nelligan(Tides); Lauren Bacall(Mirror).
|by Anonymous||reply 174||08/07/2010|
[quote]Just so you understand about Barbra's appalling taste, she sat on and then lost the chance to play Sarah Bernhardt for Russell in the 70s, in a fabulous original script. Her loss.
Wow, just think what a career she could have had.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||08/07/2010|
Larry Kramer, while perhaps having quite an intellect and having brought plenty of attention to gay people and AIDS, is one of the most obnoxious, needy and insufferable people in the Gay world. I wish he would just shut the fuck up. ENOUGH of his fucking rants!
|by Anonymous||reply 176||08/07/2010|
I hope someone is gathering all the negative comments against him in this thread and composing an email to send to him.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||08/07/2010|
R105. Excellent link. Thanks!
|by Anonymous||reply 178||08/07/2010|
Larry Kramer continues to give "Mean Old Gay AIDS-Riddled Jews" a bad name.
He's exactly like Arthur Laurents in that regard. He becomes more self-awed by his own achievements with each passing year, while each and every person who has ever worked closely with him considers him a jackass of the highest order.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||08/07/2010|
Who'd make a better Emma: Glenn or Meryl?
I say Meryl.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||08/07/2010|
The Normal Heart is not a play. It was a great long animated version of a magazine article. It worked because it was current.
Subsequent productions have proven how creaky and insufficiently dramatized it was. Its uncritical admiration for its hero's rage gets pretty tiresome after awhile. A real dramatist would make the opposition clearer and less villainous. (Think of the Inquisitor's speech in St. Joan.)
These are the reasons no one rushed to make a film of TNH. With some rewrites that could make the characters and conflict less black and white. But Kramer believes the play is a masterpiece so everyone knows that this project cannot succeed while he lives to block any reexamination of the material.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||08/07/2010|
Remember Maria Magenti's attempt to get Act Up members to pay for her schooling?
Act Up became a career move rather than sincere activism.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||08/07/2010|
"Kramer is a legend in his own mind. Once that bitter little troll is dead, he will be forgotten. His body of work will be largely forgotten in a matter of years after that."%0D %0D %0D %0D Please, he's an activist from the old school who stood up when no one else would. Fuck you for trashing him, you self-loathing Log Cabinette.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 183||08/07/2010|
r 182, don't blame ACT UP for Maria Maggenti!
And don't dismiss a whole generation of homo activists because of Larry Kramer's periodic rants! And don't blame Kramer for them, either. It's just what he does. Do you not remember his complaining that people were dying with perfectly good livers in their bodies, and that they should be made to leave their livers to science/humanity, so that people like Kramer who needed new livers could have them?
"How dare you die with a decent liver inside of you!"
"That could be my liver!"
And I mean, whatever, no doubt I'd feel desperate and angry if I knew that only a liver transplant would keep me alive, and Kramer's will to live is an awesome thing - though very much unlike the feelings of a couple of DH Lawrence's characters in WOMEN IN LOVE, interestingly, a book in which Rupert Birkin (the Alan Bates character) says death is more satisfying than life because it is truly unknown.
Nonetheless, the dude was willing to say, "How dare you take a perfectly good liver to the grave!"
And to say it without a trace of irony.
He's unique, he's his own self, he had an important role to play in the history of queer/AIDS activism, but his was not the only voice, and it's foolish and wrong to characterize a whole era of recent LGBT history as generally Kramer-ish.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||08/07/2010|
I wasn't blaming Magenti on Act Up. Rather I was using her as an example of the kind of careerism that killed Act Up.
Once it became known as a great place to network for that needed career boost, people went to the meetings to advance themselves.
Of course, I think that was inevitable because the organization was structured like high school. People had to promote themselves to get in with the in crowd. That was only one step away from Magenitism.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||08/07/2010|
r 185, I found ACT UP to be the least in-crowdish of homo gatherings. I mean, whatever, there was plenty of in-crowd-ism, but there was less of that at ACT UP, in my experience, than in anything else gay I've ever done.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||08/07/2010|
Just in case you didn't know, David Ehrenstein reared his ugly head in the comment section of Michael Musto's blog coverage of this scandal. Perfectly reasonable people stated Kramer's bad form, so that's where DE comes in, and promptly goes off the rails:
David Ehrenstein says: Utterly appropriate for Larry to air his bitter feelings publically. This is Larry Kramer, folks -- not Oprah . Or Anderson ("Does this closet door need oiling?") Cooper, for that matter.
Babs pissed away years making dreck as "The Normla Heart' sat in Development Hell. You think it's "extremely dated" dear? Apprently you weren't paying the sligest bit of attention to the pitched battle over health care waged earlier this year to eek out an utterly pathetic "reform" that does nothing but reward the status quo.
The only thing Obama cares for about us is our money. Give it to him and he'll reward you with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!
And please don't start with how much "better" Hillary would have been. There's not the slightest bit of difference between them. Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 7 2010 @ 5:45PM
|by Anonymous||reply 187||08/08/2010|
[quote]Apprently you weren't paying the sligest bit of attention to the pitched battle over health care waged earlier this year to eek out
Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic] Or should I say, "Oh, [italic]eek[/italic]"?
|by Anonymous||reply 188||08/08/2010|
Not so R186. Queer Nation was much less cliquish than ACT UP.
|by Anonymous||reply 189||08/08/2010|
Oh, I don't know, was there much difference between Queer Nation and ACT UP? As far as I could tell, it was the same gang of homos.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||08/08/2010|
I am really shocked that he would post about Barbra's son. I for one did not know that Jason had AIDS. And I do not care what most of you say,you did not know either.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||08/08/2010|
[quote]And I do not care what most of you say,you did not know either.
Do you think we're somehow conspiring together by only somehow [italic]pretending,[/italic] en masse, that we had heard this rumor before Kramer had posted this? Get a life, freakshow. We did know it before.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||08/08/2010|
No r192 you get a life it is called jumping on the bandwagon not that you all pretending, en masse....
|by Anonymous||reply 193||08/08/2010|
Jesus fuck, r193.
GET. A. LIFE.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||08/08/2010|
Story from the archive of the New York Daily News, published Friday February 14th 2003:
"Barbra's son is ill
The only son of Barbra Streisand and Elliott Gould is ailing. Jason Gould, 36, checked out of the New York Weill Cornell Medical Center this week after receiving treatment for "systemic problems," a hospital source told us.
The National Enquirer reports that Gould is HIV-positive, and was receiving special care for a case of chickenpox.
An immune system com-promised with HIV would make any infection especially dangerous.
Neither Streisand nor her ex-husband would comment on the story. But the Enquirer quotes a source as saying, "When Barbra got the news Jason tested positive for HIV, she was so heartsick she collapsed."
It is understood that Streisand, 60, has known about her son's HIV status for some time.
Jason, who lives in New York, has dabbled in acting and filmmaking. He could not be reached for comment."
|by Anonymous||reply 195||08/08/2010|
Oh well excuse me if The National Enquirer reports and the NY Daily News picks up the story than it must be true. So sorry I will now have to "GET A LIFE" PLEASE!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 196||08/08/2010|
r196, no one said the rumor was TRUE. We said we had known about the rumor before Kramer wrote it, and I proved that we did because it had been printed in the Enquirer and many, many other places elsewhere in 2003.
Now go scurry back under your bridge.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||08/08/2010|
No most of the people here are posting as if this is a FACT not a rumor. It is called READING!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 198||08/08/2010|
No, it is called hysteria.
Slowly put down the exclamation points and grab your smelling salts instead.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||08/08/2010|
Larry Kramer, Babs, AIDS, who should star in a play, queer activism, gay outrage, gay generational battles.
Could this be the gayest thread ever?
|by Anonymous||reply 200||08/08/2010|
Barbra optioned the play because she wanted to use it as bait to make Ralph Fiennes her mantoy. When he lost interest (perhaps detecting her true intentions?) she dropped the project.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||08/10/2010|
Oh SHIT!!!! Julia is going to play Brookner for the people behind Eat Pray Love! Oh SHIT!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 202||08/11/2010|
Ryan Murphy is a scary Barbra stalker. He strangely thanked her first when Glee won the Golden Globe last year, and now he's swooped in to direct Barbra's version of The Normal Heart. Barbra interviewed Ruffalo last year for the lead and had already got a commitment from Julia Roberts to play the female lead before Larry Kramer torpedoed the project. %0D %0D Then Murphy features several Streisand songs on Glee this year, using the exact same arrangements that Barbra used. Lea Michelle is in the running to portray Fanny Brice in the revival of Funny Girl.%0D %0D If I was Barbra, I would get a restraining order against Ryan.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||08/11/2010|
Time to pass the torch Babs.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||08/11/2010|
R187, do you cut anything David E. does elsewhere online, and and paste it here to encourage other people to bash him?
That's kind of pathetic.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||08/12/2010|
Ryan Murphy finally confirms that he is going to be helming the long-overdue big-screen adaptation of Larry Kramer's The Normal Heart (starring Mark Ruffalo.) What about directing Wicked? He remains cagey.%0D %0D Video:%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 206||08/13/2010|
Kramer has a right to be angry. I suppose he thought that with Streisand optioning his play a movie would be made, an A-list movie, maybe Oscar worthy. It didn't happen and probably never will. He has a right to be angry.%0D %0D But then that's typical. For years a movie version of the book "Fear of Flying" was supposed to have in been the works. Erica Jong had meetings with the looney Julia Phillips (she snorted cocaine throughout their discussions), who was determined to produce the movie and maybe even direct it herself. It was considered a hot property; supposedly every actress in Hollywood wanted the part of slutty Isadora Wing, including Streisand. But no movie got made and it was probably a good thing, too. "Fear of Flying" was very much a product of the seventies; a movie version probably would have sucked.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||08/13/2010|
It is hypocritical to cry crocodile tears about the failed repeal of DADT, all the while sitting idly by while people post abusive comments about women.
If you do not intervene against misogyny, you contribute to it.
|by Anonymous||reply 208||12/05/2010|
Use of the word "frau" is rampant all over DL, and it is meant to abuse, belittle, objectify, mock, disempower, threaten, and demonize women.
Your contempt for women is killing queer teens.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||12/13/2010|
So it's been three years now. Where is the movie? Did it ever get made?
|by Anonymous||reply 210||03/20/2013|
Considering you must have used Google search to locate this thread, surely you would have seen the other threads reporting that the movie is going to be produced by HBO for broadcast next year, you waste of carbon-based life.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||03/20/2013|
Don't mess with Larry Kramer!
He gave Patti LuPone cunting lessons.
Years ago, Kim Jong Il ran up to Larry to punch him in the face, looked in his cunting eyes, whimpered and ran away.
Leona Helmsley used to send Larry floral arrangements with notes that said "I love you" and "Don't hate me" every day.
|by Anonymous||reply 212||03/20/2013|
Yikes I never saw this thread.
The reason he did not make Normal Heart with Steisand is pretty simple. No studio would meet his fees/asking price. Period.
Barbra wrote a very sane explanation of all this a year or so ago on her web site with none of the ridiculous bile of course that he displays. She made no comments on his other assertions.
Larry Kramer was an effective activist back in the day (Act Up). But Larry is also and always has been a very nasty man. Very close old friend of mine was his lawyer going back to the 1970s when I first met him (late 70s.) I can tell a least on juice nasty story about him unrelated to all this. I'm sure anyone with even passing aquaintance with him can as well.
I think Streisand has shown class in the manner she handled him and his play. Fact is he deep sixed his own chances and not because of Barbra but because of studio and production decisions related to his compensation demands.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||03/20/2013|
[quote]I can tell a least on juice nasty story about him unrelated to all this.
So why don't you?
|by Anonymous||reply 214||03/20/2013|