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Joan Rivers tells gay performers ''stay in the closet''\\n\\n

Joan Rivers has advice for young gay performers: Stay in the closet! "If you're going to be a romantic idol and try to get every teenage girl to love you, then you'd be an ass to come out and say you're gay," Rivers tells The Advocate. "Ricky Martin was so smart. He did what he did, made his millions and then he said, 'Guess what, every body? I'm gay . . . It didn't matter anymore because he didn't have to bring in 16-year-old girls." Rivers, who once played a lesbian in a show, said if she did it again, she'd pick daughter Melissa to play her love in terest, noting, "Let's really make it good." Or really weird.

by Anonymousreply 14904/01/2013

That last bit is so fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 106/28/2010

Joan Rivers needs to sit her funky white ass down. Ugh!!!

by Anonymousreply 206/28/2010

She's right about the first part and Ricky Martin. You can be sure guys like Zac Efron, the Jonas Brothers, and other teen idols knew all this before Joan told The Advocate.

by Anonymousreply 306/28/2010

She's right, and even if you stay in, it doesn't always work out... I see red everytime I hear the name Bradley anymore... seriously.

by Anonymousreply 406/28/2010

She thinks being gay is bad and it should be hidden unless you're a has-been who no one cares about anymore. It just never occurs to Mrs. Cryptkeeper that coming out while famous is a powerful way to help encourage acceptance and fight the stereotypes... but I don't think acceptance is something she cares about.

by Anonymousreply 506/28/2010

If you give a guy the option to make a shit load of money but he has to stay in the closet or be out and proud and struggle to make ends meet I wonder which option will the guy choose?

I don't feel comfortable with the sacrficial lamb approach where several actors (early or in the middle of their thriving career) are supposed to come out just for the cause (and not because they want it themselves) and hope for their carrers not to take a nosedive.

Do we really need a buch of bitter Rupert Everetts and would that help the gay community?

by Anonymousreply 606/28/2010

R5 totally missed her point, again.

by Anonymousreply 706/28/2010

Glad she said this to all of you queens swooning about how you just love, love LOVE this old bigot. Enjoy swallowing a big old jug of your own medicine.

by Anonymousreply 806/28/2010

Joan has a point.

by Anonymousreply 906/28/2010

I think it's better for entertainers to keep the mystery alive.

by Anonymousreply 1006/28/2010

Yet watch all the hordes of Joan Rivers fans defend her. The fact that this woman remains a gay icon continues to mystify me.

by Anonymousreply 1106/28/2010

I think it's better for entertainers to keep the mystery of whether they're gay or not alive. Of course if they're straight, there's no need to keep it a mystery. So really it's only homosexuality, specifically, that I think should be kept a secret. And this vague "mystery" thing I claim to be in favor of is really just about gays staying in the closet.

by Anonymousreply 1206/28/2010

I will love this woman forever!

by Anonymousreply 1306/28/2010

She does say "romantic idol". I think she's being realistic.

by Anonymousreply 1406/28/2010

They're old-school morons, r11. They never cared that she's a Republican, so why would they care about this? A repulsive woman with repulsive fans.

by Anonymousreply 1506/28/2010

Every actor/actress has a public persona which translates to having to lie about who they really are. Being gay is just one of millions of things performers lie about. In my business affairs I reveal nothing about my background, my religeous or political beliefs, or personal information such as friends and/or significant others. There's less room for judgement.

by Anonymousreply 1606/28/2010

[quote]I don't feel comfortable with the sacrficial lamb approach where several actors (early or in the middle of their thriving career) are supposed to come out just for the cause (and not because they want it themselves) and hope for their carrers not to take a nosedive.

As long as you're not one of the people endlessly bitching about Jake or Tammy or Hugh being in the closet.

The problem is that Rivers is advocating a system where men who are openly gay are financially penalized for being out. She doesn't suggest trying for a society that is more open minded or accepting, she says people should play into our already broken, homophobic society purely for monetary gain.

What she said has fucked up Freeper all over it.

by Anonymousreply 1706/28/2010

I think she's right on the money.

by Anonymousreply 1806/28/2010

#17. We live in a materialistic world where people favor money, social status and power over personal freedom.

Celebrities coming out in droves doesn't solve the problem when there are still people with ambition out there to stay closeted and take over the jobs Hollywood is more willing to give to closeted actors than to out and proud gay actors.

by Anonymousreply 1906/28/2010

WOW

by Anonymousreply 2006/28/2010

We don't know she is right without an example of young performer who comes out as gay. We assume it would hurt their career, but we may be wrong.

by Anonymousreply 2106/28/2010

Joan needs to stick to being funny, period.

I'm so sick of celebs feeling the need to give us their opinions, who gives a shit, I certainly don't.

I don't care about her cheapo jewelry, her scalp cover product or her horse faced daughter!

by Anonymousreply 2206/28/2010

She's a very old woman who learned the ropes in Old Hollywood. I don't think she means any harm, she just doesn't understand that today is different.

by Anonymousreply 2306/28/2010

The answer isn't to encourage the fucked up status quo, R19.

I'm really shocked by the response here. DL is full of threads about how rotten and ridiculous all the closeted actors are, yet people are praising a straight Republican woman encouraging closeted actors to stay that way? Why?

by Anonymousreply 2406/28/2010

[quote]"If you're going to be a romantic idol and try to get every teenage girl to love you, then you'd be an ass to come out and say you're gay%0D %0D %0D No sensible person can disagree with this.%0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 2506/28/2010

Yeah, R23, today is so completely different than fifty years ago...

by Anonymousreply 2606/28/2010

[quote]We don't know she is right without an example of young performer who comes out as gay. We assume it would hurt their career, but we may be wrong.%0D %0D Rupert.

by Anonymousreply 2706/28/2010

Well for her career trumps everything and she has little faith in the ability of someone to ACT. Image is everything.%0D %0D Perhaps this was stated in the context of humor with more said.%0D %0D And of course, as sophisticated as she is, she is essentially Repub. %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 2806/28/2010

Actor Rupert Everett is urging gay stars not to 'come out' and to keep their sexuality a secret as it could end their film career.%0D %0D The 50-year-old My Best Friend's Wedding star came out as gay 20 years ago and admitted that since then, he has been given supporting roles and not lead parts.%0D %0D Everett is now suggesting that aspiring actors stay in the closet as it could harm their career.%0D He said: 'It's not that advisable to be honest. It's not very easy. And, honestly, I would not advise any actor necessarily, if he was really thinking of his career, to come out...%0D %0D 'The fact is that you could not be, and still cannot be, a 25-year-old homosexual trying to make it in the British film business or the American film business or even the Italian film business.%0D 'It just doesn't work and you're going to hit a brick wall at some point. You're going to manage to make it roll for a certain amount of time, but at the first sign of failure, they'll cut you right off.%0D 'And I'm sick of saying: "Yes, it's probably my own fault." Because I've always tried to make it work and when it stops working somewhere, I try to make it work somewhere else. %0D 'But the fact of the matter is, and I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't work if you're gay.'%0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 2906/28/2010

Rupert Everett was only hot for a brief time - after Another Country, and then years later, he got a second shot with My Best Friend's Wedding.

Does he ever wonder if his miniscule talent and lack of charm have anything to do with it?

by Anonymousreply 3006/28/2010

link for r29

by Anonymousreply 3106/28/2010

I agree with her 100%

by Anonymousreply 3206/28/2010

Mad Men creator and executive producer Matthew Weiner said Wednesday that despite Neil Patrick Harris coming out and now working more than ever, %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Clet%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s not pretend%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D that openly gay actors are not limiting their future career choices when they go public.

by Anonymousreply 3306/28/2010

[quote]I don't think she means any harm, she just doesn't understand that today is different.%0D %0D %0D They are so different that all the gay actors have come out!%0D %0D She may be a Republican, but I don't think her statement was homophobic, she is just spouting Entertainment conventional wisdom.%0D %0D It won't really change until an actor comes out and plays a straight role in a successful rom-com.

by Anonymousreply 3406/28/2010

Frankly, the era of the romantic leading man is dead. They only ocassionally reappear in dross like 'Under the Tuscan Sun', and even then the shelf life of the idealized man is limited. There's no reason a gay guy couldn't do the light lifting of say Shia LaBeouf's on-screen romanctic efforts in otherwise action packed special effects movies. Anne Heche came out and was immediately cast opposite Harrison Ford!

by Anonymousreply 3506/28/2010

Let's see, should I stay in the closet and continue to make movies and tens of millions of dollars, or should I come out as gay, never work again and become a pariah of the very community who urged me to come out in the first place?%0D %0D Gee, which option shall I choose?

by Anonymousreply 3606/28/2010

R36-well, when you frame it like the greedy materialistic shit stain you are, it sounds reasonable- sort of.

But here's what's really going on...

"Should I live my entire life as a lie- hiding the truth and deceiving others- just so I can make a lot of money (assuming that I'm one of the lucky one percent who actually make it). Or, should I live my life truthfully, functionally, as a healthy self affirming human being? Maybe i should choose the first option- which means living a double life, joining a homophobic cult, drinking too much, drugging- doing anything to escape the fucked up life I've chosen. I'll have kids for cover, not caring that they're being conceived just to cover up a lie. And I'll do it all for money- because money fixes everything".

Yes- the John Travoltas are so healthy, so happy. I'm sure it was well worth selling his soul and personal integrity just for a few bucks.

Rivers should keep her pie hole closed. Fucking Republican.

Oh and...what I love about threads like this is that you quickly see how many closet cases there are on DL.

by Anonymousreply 3706/28/2010

Aren't fat, conventionally unattractive guys the modern leading men in romantic comedies anyway? What would be lost if, let's say, Seth Rogen came out of the closet?

by Anonymousreply 3806/28/2010

When I was a teenager I raped Minnie Pearl's dead body!

by Anonymousreply 4006/28/2010

[quote]John Travolta appears happier than most of the gay men I know.

You're either unobservant or have the unhappiest acquaintances in the world.

by Anonymousreply 4106/28/2010

What's wrong with Bass or Lane? Nathan did star as a womanizing opera star in an American situation comedy, so your argument falls to pieces on this count.

by Anonymousreply 4206/28/2010

>>I'm really shocked by the response here. DL is full of threads about how rotten and ridiculous all the closeted actors are, yet people are praising a straight Republican woman encouraging closeted actors to stay that way? Why?>>

I'm not praising Joan encouraging closeted actors or actresses to stay closeted, I simply don't give a shit about any celebrity's opinions on anything.

The opinions that should count are those of our elected officials who are in the position to change many things, NOT celebrities.

So many of these celebs make statements to garner a larger audience, their statements are made to appeal to certain demographics. There are so many celebrity hypocrites out there, Sting for example, going on about the Rainforest, meanwhile he owns eight homes, jetsets all over the world, what the hell is his carbon foorprint!?

This is not rocket science.

by Anonymousreply 4306/28/2010

I will never understand why people hate to hear the truth.

by Anonymousreply 4406/28/2010

THERE ARE NO OUT GAY MOVIE STARS. Never have been and probably won't be for decades to come. Right or wrong, the backers won't finance a film with an openly gay romantic lead. Would the public buy it? Perhaps. Should they but it? Of course. Should stars come out? Sure. Is hollywood homophobic? Yes.%0D %0D But those who hold the greedy purse strings are not in the business of risking it to "see how a film fares with an openly gay romantic lead." They are all about the almighty dollar and the sure thing. SO, those "A" films just don't get made with out gay stars. Producers don't have a gay social conscience, they have what is known as GREED.

by Anonymousreply 4506/28/2010

Last time I checked jets weren't fuelled with firewood.

by Anonymousreply 4606/28/2010

Minnie Pearl? You're going to have to update your "raped the dead body of..." bit.

by Anonymousreply 4706/28/2010

I loved Joan's recent interview on Fresh Air. She and Terry Gross got along very well, and Joan was marvelous.

There. I said it.

by Anonymousreply 4806/28/2010

[quote]Nathan did star as a womanizing opera star in an American situation comedy, so your argument falls to pieces on this count.%0D %0D You've got that right. It was a huge hit. I've got the DVDs of all nine seasons. %0D

by Anonymousreply 4906/28/2010

It's sad that so many "gay" men defend this. and it's shameful. No, nothing will ever change as long as you cowards and closet cases rationalize the status quo.

by Anonymousreply 5006/28/2010

People are not "defending" this as a way of saying it's a good thing. They are simply realizing the FACT that young gays in Hollywood must stay in the closet in order to get jobs as leading men.%0D %0D It's a FACT.%0D %0D It's not what we want.%0D %0D BUT IT'S A FACT!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 5106/28/2010

Rivers is encouraging it by telling performers to stay in the closet to appease Hollywood homophobia. She didn't say "it's a sad but true fact that out gay men won't get the roles they deserve." She told them to stay in the closet.

Are there really that many people on this thread who don't know the difference?

by Anonymousreply 5206/28/2010

And you are 'all over' this particular thread, R52.

by Anonymousreply 5306/28/2010

She didn't say to be a "successful actor", she said "romantic idol". There is a difference.

by Anonymousreply 5406/28/2010

OH PLEASE. Joan is coming from a typical straight woman's point of view. "The visualization of two men fucking ruins ANY moment, especially a theatrical one."

THAT's what she means, bitches. Stop pretending she's on your side. lol

by Anonymousreply 5506/28/2010

Its not Hollywood Homophobia, its the homophobia of people who buy movie tickets. C'mon guys, I've even seen it on here. Even when someone who is suspected of being gay plays it straight gets the ole, "who does she think she's fooling" line.

by Anonymousreply 5606/28/2010

This woman is trash. There I said it.

by Anonymousreply 5706/28/2010

I don't think she's saying that's the way she wants it, just that's the way it is, and she's right in that.

The whole comment about her daughter was gross though, and it implies that to her being gay is a single step from incest.

by Anonymousreply 5806/28/2010

All this woman cares about is making a buck. She is gross. She'd probably go down on her own daughter if they paid her enough.

by Anonymousreply 5906/28/2010

R53 is the one who posted about Sandra and Jesse divorcing, then commented several times in that thread repeating himself. His comment at R53 is little attempt at troll-dar stalking in revenge. Proud of yourself, R53? Is this a fun hobby for you?

by Anonymousreply 6006/28/2010

Is she still on the board of that group that delivers meals to AIDS patients in NYC? Didn't she donate a half million to them last year?

by Anonymousreply 6106/28/2010

To change this situation the following things have to happen:

Hollywood has a change of heart and hires out gay actors for very straight (character) roles in blockbuster movie productions or uses the PR machinery to create buzz for a movie by letting the leading man come out. [bold]Repeat[/bold] that for several projects and years. Signal the world that it's no big deal for an openly gay actor to be a major player in Hollywood.

The media industry stops its habit to sensationalize homosexuality (GAY SCANDAL! Male star has SECRET BOYFRIEND! Star COMES OUT AS GAY! Male star A with male star B in one picture: ARE THEY GAY for each other??????? buy this magazine / click this link and keep on reading!)

Train the gay community to become a united force that will support out actors no matter whether individual members of the gay community like the actor, artist, ect. and his work or completely hate him and his work and would love nothing more than to post their contempt for him and his work on message boards / twitter / comment sections / network sites /etc, but refrain from doing so in order to not break the lines of unconditional support.

With those conditions in place the celluloid closet will become a faded memory of the past.

You cannot diss Joan R. for telling like it is now (and has been for a long time), but you can diss her for not doing her part to change Hollywood's lack of trust in the commercial success of hiring out gay men in leading roles or not telling the press and (gossip) media to stop making a fuss about who's gay or not gay in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 6206/28/2010

Gay guys and straight girls ALWAYS swoon over straight guys.

The minute a guy announced he's gay, they both lose interest.

by Anonymousreply 6306/28/2010

[quote]not telling the press and (gossip) media to stop making a fuss about who's gay or not gay in Hollywood.%0D %0D %0D IOW, she should campaign to have DataLounge shut down?

by Anonymousreply 6406/28/2010

R63

Gay guys swooned over Clay Aiken? Yeah, right.

by Anonymousreply 6506/28/2010

[quote]she should campaign to have DataLounge shut down?

No, but boards like Datalounge would lose their initial purpose of being a hotbed of gay gossip threads and topics when Homosexuality is no longer treated as a dirty secret that can hinder or cost a celebrity his career.

I am sure Datalounge itself will remain present in the future with its threads about politics, economics, medical and other issues.

(Treating) gay gossip as a dirty little secret only certain individuals should know about (because even a rumor can put someone's career in danger) is a necessary sacrifice to get rid of homophobia in general.

by Anonymousreply 6606/28/2010

From Advocate interview:%0D %0D Q: Like Betty White, who sort of outed Cary Grant on The Joy Behar Show last week, you%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99ve surely encountered some closeted celebrities through the years.%0D %0D A: Yes. But it%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s a business. If everyone had known that Cary Grant was gay, he wouldn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t have been the great romantic idol, and that would%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99ve been the end of his career. Same with Rock Hudson, who was a very good friend of mine. He had a partner named Tom for years, and when you invited Rock, you invited Tom %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%94 there was no question. But if the world had known, maybe they wouldn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t have wanted to see him make out with Jane Wyman. It makes sense, in a way. If you%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99re looking at someone who%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s your idol, thinking that maybe one day they%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99ll come ring your doorbell, you don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t want to hear, %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CThere%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s no chance in hell, honey, but still buy a ticket to the movie.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D%0D %0D Q: Should young gay performers still keep their sexuality a secret?%0D %0D A: It%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s part of the game. If you%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99re going to be a romantic idol and try to get every teenage girl to love you, then you%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99d be an ass to come out and say you%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99re gay. That%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s why Ricky Martin was so smart %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%94 he did what he did, he made his millions, and then he said, %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CGuess what, everybody? I%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99m gay, I%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99m having this life, and here are my children.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D It didn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t matter anymore because he didn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t have to bring in 16-year-old girls. %0D

by Anonymousreply 6706/28/2010

Interesting.

by Anonymousreply 6806/28/2010

I've always thought that people like Perez are as guilty of keeping the homophobia in Hollywood as any closet case. They're gay minstrels who promote gay witch hunts for the titillation of the middle class.

by Anonymousreply 6906/28/2010

[quote](Treating) gay gossip as a dirty little secret only certain individuals should know about (because even a rumor can put someone's career in danger) is a necessary sacrifice to get rid of homophobia in general.%0D %0D Please take the lead in this r66. Arrange with the webmaster to shut down all threads that discuss anyone being gay. We're depending on you, r66, to eliminate all gay gossip.

by Anonymousreply 7006/28/2010

Joan, needs to keep her big mouth shut.

Oh, that's right, with her face pulled so tight it's doubtful she can keep her stupid yap shut.

by Anonymousreply 7106/28/2010

What I would love to see is an action hero that is GAY. One who can really kick butt. I can understand the romantic idol part. Although straight stars who are married and have kids still get to play romantic leads and it's ok.%0D %0D In a lot of the newer action movies it's not about the hero getting the girl anymore. It's about huge action sequences and kicking ass.

by Anonymousreply 7206/28/2010

R72, Hugh Jackman and Toby McGuire

by Anonymousreply 7306/28/2010

{quote]Rupert Everett was only hot for a brief time - after Another Country, and then years later, he got a second shot with My Best Friend's Wedding... Does he ever wonder if his miniscule talent and lack of charm have anything to do with it?

Rupert Everett has talent and charm to spare. He stole "My Best Friend's Wedding" right out from under the biggest star in the world. He has been terrific in numerous films. He did exactly what YOU and some here want. He came out and got royally fucked and not in a good way. You may not want to hear the truth, but the powers that be in Hollywood, many gay themselves, will NOT hire an out gay man in a romantic lead. It certainly ain't River's fault so don't shoot the messenger. She's only telling the truth.

by Anonymousreply 7406/28/2010

R74

Care to name some of these numerous films?

by Anonymousreply 7506/28/2010

[quote]We're depending on you, [R66], to eliminate all gay gossip.

Your sarcasm sure made a change. Congrats.

by Anonymousreply 7606/28/2010

In your heart you know she's right.

by Anonymousreply 7706/28/2010

I agree with her. And it's not about homophobia. It's about the way the brain works. If teenage girls KNOW that a guy is gay, they have a harder time fantasizing about him EVER "ringing their doorbell," as Joan says. THAT'S why they are romantic idols. Girls think in their fantasies that it MIGHT happen someday, (although, of course, it never will.) They DO think that way. If they know the guy is gay, they also know that that fantasy would NEVER EVER EVER come true. And so they don't buy tickets to that actor's movies. Why would they? Same with gay boys who simply fantasize on the CHANCE that the romantic idol might be a CLOSETED gay guy.%0D %0D The system works very well, folks, and it is something quite separate and apart from gay rights or gay issues. If you want to be a leading man in movies, you must PRESENT as heterosexual. THERE ARE VASTLY MORE HETEROSEXUALS out there buying the movie tickets than gays. The gay dollar doesn't keep Hollywood afloat. We are a minority. And it IS A BUSINESS. THE BUSINESS OF DREAMS (for romantic idols, that is.)

by Anonymousreply 7806/28/2010

It absolutely IS about homophobia. you're a MORON. You have NO RIGHT to complain about homophobic oppression if you advocate that people play the game of perpetuating heterosexual presumption because it profits you in some way. That's complete BULLSHIT.

And what about the people who can't pass? I guess it's absolutely okay to discriminate against them, isn't it?

Fuck all you auntie toms. If you had ANY brains you would realize that you can't FIGHT oppression while PERPETUATING it at the same time. If you're going to say that it's okay for people who can pass to choose to pass, then you are also advocating discrimination against those who can't.

You're cowards. You want the rewards of heterosexual presumption, while you skulk about in the shadows like the lying dregs that you are. Money doesn't make you a decent person- it certainly can't give you happiness and fulfillment.

by Anonymousreply 7906/28/2010

There's absolutely no reason why someone just like Johnny Weir can't play a hetero romantic lead in a huge Hollywood film. If you can't comprehend how butch he would be, then YOU are the problem with Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 8006/28/2010

[quote]If teenage girls KNOW that a guy is gay, they have a harder time fantasizing about him EVER "ringing their doorbell,"

Bullshit. That is a PC slant on the entire thing, but ultimately it is incorrect.

Men have no problems still fantasizing about out bi women, not so for out male actors, whether bi OR Gay.

The reason? .... because the image of two men fucking is repulsive to the majority of human kind. Period. Once that image enters the viewers head, even the suggestion of it, the out bi or gay man is over, as a leading man anyway.

The ONLY way to change the image is to make gay men more accessible and 'common place' so that the repulsed knee jerk reaction is altered. The closet just acquiesces to the notion that what gay men do in bed is repulsive and must be hidden. Joan stating the facts, not truth, but facts, is not helpful at all.

Suppose Joan had said, you know the image of black men kissing a black woman on screen is not something anyone wants to see. This was a fact in hollywood for years. Guess what, black men kiss black women on screen and black men are complete sexual beings on screen because black actors had the courage to do it and black writers had the courage to write decent story lines. Eventually, a sexualized black actor playing a part didn't send the masses screaming for the doors.

But, you know, stay in the closet. Joan and other homophobes will give you plenty of excuses for your cowardice because they know you are desperate for excuses and they don't really like your gay ass anyway.

by Anonymousreply 8106/28/2010

She should just shut the fuck up. Why should anybody give a fuck what Joan Rivers says?

by Anonymousreply 8206/28/2010

What is everyone so upset about?

by Anonymousreply 8306/28/2010

r79, good lord calm down, sista.%0D %0D "Pass?" "PASS?"That is a phrase that light skinned blacks used pre civil rights, honey. "PASS" for straight? ROFL. This discussion is about HOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC IDOLS in 2010, Pinky. %0D %0D I guess you think that out gay actors will still fill the fantasies of young teenage girls, then? Or that Hollywood should just give up making money so out gay actors can star in profitless films, then? It's not ABOUT "oppression" here, Norma Rae. The stars are still getting CAST in the movies, dimwit. They are STILL STARS who make boatloads of money, just like they always have. And this isn't about sneaking around in some closet out of oppression. It's the ACTOR'S CHOICE if he or she want THAT TYPE OF CAREER. Oppression? I think not. You want to make teenage girls love you? You really can't be telling them you prefer dick. How hard is that for you to understand?%0D %0D The Hollywood movie game is a different GAME.%0D %0D "Perpetuating heterosexual presumption" is a psychobabble construct. Because an actor presents as heterosexual in a starring role is not PERPETUATING that ALL actors are heterosexual, just THAT actor.%0D %0D Get in the real world.

by Anonymousreply 8406/28/2010

If we know that teen girls can't fantasize about a gay guy romancing them, and if that apparently disqualifies gay men from playing romantic leads, then so what? Is the romantic lead the pinnacle of the industry? If so, why? Because of the fantasy? But we can't have the fantasy.

We can play the romantic lead in a gay movie. And be the action hero, (Rambo didn't really have romance, so an action hero doesn't always need a love), we can play anything else.

Why is it so important for a gay actor to be able to play a romantic lead in a heterosexual movie? Who cares, it's not like us gay men are going to want to watch a heterosexual romance anyway. There's comedy, horror, period pieces, so much more...

by Anonymousreply 8506/28/2010

Oh yes, Neil Patrick Harris really suffered from being outed. No more work for him. Idiots.

She's a desiccated old fossil who's time has come to die.

The irony...tom Cruise was the biggest box office star in the world for ages and EVERYONE considered him gay. Everyone. The more he denied it, the more people believed it to be true. It did not hurt his box office one iota. What hurt him was when he made a fool of himself, jumping on the couch, declaring his heterosexuality. People thought he looked foolish, and everyone made fun of him for being a closet case. THAT hurt his career.

People KNOW Kevin Spacey is gay, whether he says it or not. Robert Downey was open about his bisexual experiences, and it didn't hurt him. Richard Burton talked openly about having had "homosexual" experiences in his youth, and insisted he was not ashamed of it at all. Most people assumed Richard Gere was gay, when he was in his heyday, and it didn't hurt him.When James Dean was asked about being bisexual, he said that he wasn't going to go through life with "one hand tied behind his back". Almost every superstar has played a gay character at some point in their career and it did not hurt them.

You're all full of shit. I suspect, because the ones agreeing with her are shitstain closet cases. Well, news flash, bitches, YOU'RE WRONG.

by Anonymousreply 8606/28/2010

r81, you miss the point entirely. It's not about "visualizing" anything, doll. It's about just KNOWING that an actor is gay that will kill the FANTASY for people. "He would never look twice at ME so why should I be all enamored with him?" The moviegoing experience is a different animal. Sitting out there in the dark, people want to think they "have a chance" with the stars they love.%0D %0D I also don't think MOST people these days find two men making love repulsive. Project much?

by Anonymousreply 8706/28/2010

[quote]The reason? .... because the image of two men fucking is repulsive to the majority of human kind. Period. Once that image enters the viewers head, even the suggestion of it, the out bi or gay man is over, as a leading man anyway.%0D %0D Correct.%0D %0D [quote]The ONLY way to change the image is to make gay men more accessible and 'common place' so that the repulsed knee jerk reaction is altered. The closet just acquiesces to the notion that what gay men do in bed is repulsive and must be hidden.%0D %0D Wrong. You aren't going to change hetero revulsion to our sexual behavior by making gay men more common place. %0D %0D They will always be revolted by what we do in bed. And that is because they are heterosexual.%0D %0D Witness the knee jerk revulsion to vagine on DL and tell me that can be altered by more exposure to heterosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 8806/28/2010

I think Joan's comment reflects reality to a degree but she's using an old play book in regard to demographics.%0D %0D First, young straight females are about the gay friendliest group out there. They make up a huge part of the fanbase of guys like Adam Lambert. There are a lot of them posting male/male romance stories about their favorite characters and personalities on the web all the time. There are a lot of them who coo over cute gay couples like NPH and David. They tend to be more supportive of gay male stars than gays are, especially if the star in question happens to be less than 110 percent gorgeous and masculine.%0D %0D Second, with the existence of the internet things have changed. Gossip spreads much more easily now, and young women are usually plugged into internet gossip about their favorite stars. They are likely to be well aware of it if a star they like is glass closeted. And if a star lies and beards women who've wasted a lot of time arguing online that the star is too honest and genuine to lie about their sexuality are going to feel angry and betrayed if the star comes out.%0D %0D More difficult groups to market out gay male performers to are the elderly and straight males. Straight guys are a lot less flexible than women about who they are willing to identify with in terms of performers and characters.

by Anonymousreply 8906/28/2010

r86, neither Tom Cruise nor Kevin Spacey ever outed themselves. They are still not out. Presumption is one thing. Being OUT is another. THAT'S the difference here. That's the whole fucking difference. That NOT being out part? It's why they still sold movie tickets.%0D %0D Not sure what your real point is there, partner.

by Anonymousreply 9006/28/2010

Women are generally less homophobic than men- but girls will abandon teen idols who are gay? How OLD are some of you fossils? you don't think that girls can smell a gay werewolf when they see one? Really??

by Anonymousreply 9106/28/2010

We think homosexuals should be outlawed from everywhere, not just the fleshpots of Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 9206/28/2010

Thank you r89. You took my points and ran with them into the 21st century. Every word you typed is true. Maybe we are HEADED in that direction with out stars.

by Anonymousreply 9306/28/2010

R86, what you wrote is most likely true, but your examples are of men who everybody knew to be gay, but those men didn't publicly announce it. Apparently, the annoucement is the killer.

by Anonymousreply 9406/28/2010

r87, yes, most do find what gay men do in bed repulsive. Most found what two black heterosexuals did in bed repulsive. Blacks were seen as animals. Gay men are seen as repugnant. The 'image' of it has to be humanized. You can not humanize the sexual act if the actors are driven into a permanent closet.

I know it is difficult to accept these words but it is fact. However, facts can be changed, not by hiding but by being honest and authentic.

by Anonymousreply 9506/28/2010

R87/88- you're the one who has the problem, cunt. "Queer As Folk" had a huge following of straight women and they LOVED the sex scenes. Your bullshit assertion betrays your own self-loathing. People LOVE watching other people have sex. They especially love fantasizing about it. When people in this culture pretend revulsion at gay sex, it's just that- PRETENDING. If they do feel any revulsion, it's self loathing. Most truly straight people might be bored by gay sex, but it doesn't "revolt" them. Notice I said TRULY straight people. You're talking about closet caes- like yourself.

by Anonymousreply 9606/28/2010

R90- you mentally retarded, cunt? The point is that MOST STRAIGHT PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE GAY. And it didn't hurt their careers. When people do make fun of them, it's when they try to insist they're straight.

But you "don't get it" because you are a self loathing IDIOT.

by Anonymousreply 9706/28/2010

Neal Patrick Harris is a fun and an excellent actor. He is an out, cool, cute gay star. He has been in movies.%0D %0D He is also NOT a romantic idol in "A" films. Not that he wants to be, either. He would be hard pressed to get INTO an A role as the LEAD romantic figure because he is OUT. The moneychangers would not back that film.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 9806/28/2010

A lot of you are old. Things have changed. Young people simply do not care about this. As you old timers die off, hopefully soon, everything will be different.

by Anonymousreply 9906/28/2010

[quote] The irony...tom Cruise was the biggest box office star in the world for ages and EVERYONE considered him gay. Everyone. %0D %0D I disagree with that. He said he was straight, he was married, he was successful when he attacked people legally for making may allegations and he didn't fit neatly into straight people's gay stereotypes. Most straights, especially the ones that don't bother with internet gossip assumed he was probably straight or at the very least maybe straight for most of his career. Certainly the ones I've been around did. %0D %0D [quote] What hurt him was when he made a fool of himself, jumping on the couch, declaring his heterosexuality.%0D %0D What hurt him was he did and said a number of things that convinced people he was creepy and crazy. And it was then that most straights became convinced there was something weird enough going on with him that he was probably gay - the freaks are always assumed to be sexually different and probably gay.

by Anonymousreply 10006/28/2010

R98- you're full of shit. which is it- successful stars, or only movie stars? First you assholes say no one could be a star or sex symbol- then you switch it to movies when people provide examples. Neil Patrick Harris' character is popular with straight people, stupid.

by Anonymousreply 10106/28/2010

Hollywood is and has always been about CLOSETS of ALL kinds. It's about IMAGE. The studio system kept so much from the public to promote it's stars as "royalty" when most were from common, uneducated backgrounds. This image upholding stuff is harder in the internet age. Perhaps the days of the dream factories are truly over if everyone knows who is gay, who is on drugs, who has a criminal past and when he or she takes a shit.

by Anonymousreply 10206/28/2010

Hear, hear, r97. No clearer example of that exists than Ryan Seacrest, who gets derision from all corners.

by Anonymousreply 10306/28/2010

r88, that is simply not true.

For instance, the loving relationship in the documentary on CNN does miles and miles of work to alter hetero perception of homosexuals. Once hetero's witness and absorb the humanity of gay men then it is less of a leap to witness the expression of that love. Once the expression of that love is humanized then out gay actors will no longer be defined by their sexuality and the character will be the source of the 'fantasy' not the actors private life.

And gay men on DL do not represent the entirety of gay men and their viewing of hetero sexual acts as portrayed on screen. If the actors are good, then the story is accepted by gay men as well as anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 10406/28/2010

[quote]Witness the knee jerk revulsion to vagine on DL and tell me that can be altered by more exposure to heterosexuality.%0D %0D R95, R96 read this again, and think really hard. You can do it!

by Anonymousreply 10506/28/2010

R100- of course you disagree. YOU'RE WRONG, though. Very, very wrong. MOST people thought his marriages were shams. People have talked about him being gay since Risky Business. You're WRONG.

by Anonymousreply 10606/28/2010

"Perhaps the days of the dream factories are truly over if everyone knows who is gay, who is on drugs, who has a criminal past and when he or she takes a shit."

Wow- you're not homophobic at all making those associations with being gay.

by Anonymousreply 10706/28/2010

r96, QAF didn't have a huge anything, much less a HUGE straight female following. It had at the very most a cult straight female following.

by Anonymousreply 10806/28/2010

She's wrong. Being a pop singer or a movie star is all about fantasy. Even if a popular performer is frank about being gay or lesbian, their straight fans will dream about being the one who can turn them straight. Also, the slash phenomenon proves that straight women can be as turned on by man on man scenarios as men are by lesbian ones.

by Anonymousreply 10906/28/2010

I see Joan's point, but it's fundamentally wrong on principle. It's probably not wrong financially, but it wrong on so many other levels.%0D %0D We've got to break these barriers. It may take years, but otherwise; homphobia and discrmination will continue.%0D %0D It may also be a generational thing with Joan. I love her and think she's very funny and a great performer. But she's also from a generation that encouarged "the closet." Staying in the closet is living a lie--similar to DADT. It must end.

by Anonymousreply 11006/28/2010

[quote]the image of two men fucking is repulsive to the majority of human kind.%0D %0D Exactly! For our 2011 Gay Agenda, let's convince Hollywood to include gay fucking scenes in all their films so that the public gets used to it.

by Anonymousreply 11106/28/2010

Just to add a little sanity to this thread, actors who can't "pass" will do what they've always done, go to Broadway and have a career in musical theatre or accept character parts in Hollywood films. Its not that difficult to grasp. Joan is 100% correct.

by Anonymousreply 11206/28/2010

r74 Rupert had a real opportunity to become established as a male lead in film. He blew it. He no doubt had some extra challenges to deal with as an out gay man, but there was a great avenue to success at his feet and he ruined it for himself with bad choices and personality flaws.%0D %0D He was the darling of a big female fanset when he stole My Best Friend's Wedding. The critics loved him and were all saying he should have been the romantic lead since he was way more attractive and charming than the lead and had better chemistry with Julia. He received a People's Choice award. He was cast as a straight romantic lead in An Ideal Husband and a lead in Next Best Thing.%0D %0D He made bad film choices at a critical career juncture. He was also difficult to work with. His female fanbase wanted to think of his as being as charming and classy as his character in My Best Friend's Wedding, and instead he did interviews where he went on about things that would put them off like his time as a prostitute and his friendship with bitchy celeb women like Madonna. That's not the way to the A list.

by Anonymousreply 11306/28/2010

Nobody should be listening to that sorry excuse of a human being called Joan Rivers.

What a freak!

by Anonymousreply 11406/28/2010

r106 there are gay rumors about pretty much every successful goodlooking Hollywood guy. Straights are accustomed to that and ignore it for the most part. Tom Cruise was in the "probably straight" category or the "I'll give him the benefit of the doubt he's telling the truth" for most straights until his recent activities made him seem really weird.

by Anonymousreply 11506/28/2010

For those of you who agree with Joan, how does this help gay people? How does lying about yourself bring more acceptance? People like you are the reason why gay rights never get anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 11606/28/2010

r116, they want Obama to do it.

by Anonymousreply 11706/28/2010

[quote]how does this help gay people?

It keeps them employed.

by Anonymousreply 11806/28/2010

[quote]For those of you who agree with Joan, %0D %0D Are you saying it's a lie that gay men don't get cast as romantic leads? You really think she's lying about it? You're pathetic if you can't deal with facts, just some fairytale in your head that says Rock Hudson would have been a star if he had been out. What a fool!

by Anonymousreply 11906/28/2010

Laughing from r118.

by Anonymousreply 12006/28/2010

# 18, I guess things like self respect don't mean anything to you, huh?

by Anonymousreply 12106/28/2010

Most actors, straight and gay, checked their self respect at the door, the minute they entered into the acting profession. Acting is a cold, hard business, that forces you to make tough decisions and compromises that aren't always in your own best interest.

By the time staying in the closet or coming out is an issue, most actors have already made a 100 compromises to further their careers.

by Anonymousreply 12206/28/2010

[quote]She's wrong. Being a pop singer or a movie star is all about fantasy. Even if a popular performer is frank about being gay or lesbian, their straight fans will dream about being the one who can turn them straight.

That's right baby, I'm a sexy beast! And the ladies LOVE me!

by Anonymousreply 12306/28/2010

#119, When did I say she was lying? I never said that. How do expect people to accept gay actors in romantic straight leads when none come out? Telling people to stay in the closet isn't going to change people's opinions.

by Anonymousreply 12406/28/2010

[quote]How do expect people to accept gay actors in romantic straight leads when none come out%0D %0D How do you expect gay actors to come out when it will end their ability to make big money? Should they end up working in a cube like you, just to help the next generation of gay actors to come out? They're not stupid.

by Anonymousreply 12506/28/2010

The self loathers who are posting here are not the ones who understand Joan's statement and agree with it. The self haters here are not those who are comfortable with themselves. They make knee jerk and volatile reactions to posts, filled with invective and vulgarisms. ("cunt?" Oh my.)%0D %0D Those of you who are screaming at posters how wrong it is for romantic leads in "A" pictures to stay closeted obviously do not work in the film industry or understand the main points being made. Your big bag of gay crazy does not help your cause, fellows. If you would stop huffing and puffing long enough to LISTEN to an alternative point of view rather than being out out out and loud loud loud, you would find that there are all kinds of ways to be gay. There is no party line. Gay marriage should be legal. Discrimination of any kind should be illegal. Acceptance of gays should be society-wide. Gays ARE everywhere. The younger generation is more accepting and making it "no big deal." Out gay male romantic leads in the movies won't get cast. %0D %0D You may not want to hear the truth but that doesn't make it any less true.

by Anonymousreply 12606/28/2010

"How do you expect gay actors to come out when it will end their ability to make big money?"%0D %0D %0D %0D Why would it end their ability to make money? No one goes to see movies because of who stars in them. There are no movie stars anymore. People just go to the movies for the special effects. So why would they care if the actors are gay or straight?%0D %0D %0D "You may not want to hear the truth but that doesn't make it any less true."%0D %0D %0D The truth is that you're an Uncle Tom. You may not want to hear it, but it's true.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 12706/28/2010

Are you really that stupid and naive, r127?

by Anonymousreply 12806/28/2010

OK. Ha Ha and all that. Fine. See the point and I don't begrudge her.

BUT people need to come out of the closet. Period. They need to come out early and young. They need to be out and stay out. They need to be out early in their careers and carry on their careers as if being out is perfectly normal, which it is.

Not only do they have to do this to normalize gay life and living in the business and in society, they have to do it as role models for young gay people. It is not acceptable to be cynical about coming out according to a time table for the money (even if Dan Savage says take the college money from fundie parents before coming out to them).

Hiding says something is wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with being gay. It is not a matter of privacy, not so long as civil rights are denied us.

by Anonymousreply 12906/28/2010

George Clooney is a movie star. People don't go to his movies for the special effects.%0D %0D Tom Cruise, love or hate him, is a movie star.%0D %0D Cate Blanchett is a movie star. People don't go to her movies for the special effects.%0D %0D Angelina Jolie is a movie star.%0D %0D They can still open a movie or at least TRY to. %0D %0D The public may not care if these stars are gay or straight but the PRODUCERS do.

by Anonymousreply 13006/28/2010

"Rupert Everett has talent and charm to spare. He stole "My Best Friend's Wedding" right out from under the biggest star in the world. He has been terrific in numerous films. He did exactly what YOU and some here want. He came out and got royally fucked and not in a good way. You may not want to hear the truth, but the powers that be in Hollywood, many gay themselves, will NOT hire an out gay man in a romantic lead. It certainly ain't River's fault so don't shoot the messenger. She's only telling the truth"%0D %0D %0D %0D Good lord, you are retarded. Giving a good performance in one movie doesn't mean you are going to be a big star. Stealing scenes doesn't mean you are going to be a big star. Rupert Everett was never going to be an A-list star. You're just a self-loathing piece of shit. You have no knowledge of Hollywood if you think "making it" is about talent. Lots of talented actors never become big stars, whether they are straight or gay. Lots of untalented stars do become stars. So what if he is talented? That doesn't mean he was destined for stardom before he came out.

by Anonymousreply 13106/28/2010

R130 is sadly mistaken. Cate Blanchett is not a bankable star. George Clooney has had lots of flops. Angelina is not a star, as the sad grosses for Changeling and A Mighty Heart proove.%0D %0D %0D Most of Tom's movies are action movies that would have been big hits even if someone else had starred in them.%0D %0D %0D The fact that a star-free movie like Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time should tell you what audiences want.%0D %0D %0D I know damn well that producers discriminate, but they are wrong. Trust me, most people wouldn't refuse to see a movie because the lead is gay. They mostly go to movies to watch stuff blow up.

by Anonymousreply 13206/29/2010

#128, do you feel that defensive and powerless that you have to go around calling people names and insulting them?

by Anonymousreply 13306/29/2010

r128 is the stupid and naive one. You really think people went to see Avatar because they give a shit about Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana? Most of the people who saw that movie probably don't even know the names of the actors in it. Show people a picture of Zoe Saldana and probably 90% won't know her name, they'll just call her that chick from Avatar. No one goes to the movies for the stars.

by Anonymousreply 13406/29/2010

[quote]You have no knowledge of Hollywood if you think "making it" is about talent.%0D %0D Is that you, MHB?

by Anonymousreply 13506/29/2010

A lot of gay men, like Rupert, don't make it because they're odd, not because they're gay. It makes people feel funny to watch them. It's like they're a little too polished, a little too refined to be convincing in the part.

by Anonymousreply 13606/29/2010

Joan's comments certainly explain why so many actors are still in the closet.

by Anonymousreply 13706/29/2010

"Tom Cruise, love or hate him, is a movie star."

Not any more.

by Anonymousreply 13806/29/2010

If the shoe fits, r133.

by Anonymousreply 13906/29/2010

Gay men look, listen, buy stuff from female celebrities. There obviously is no sexual interest. Heterosexuals are making excuses to keep acting jobs heterosexual-only and to validate heterosexual prejudices. I am very musch ready for a leading gay man in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 14006/29/2010

Openly gay men regularly play leading man roles in musicals and plays...and no one cares.

by Anonymousreply 14106/29/2010

Joan_Rivers

@adamlambert I heard you were a hit at Foxwoods. I just got back from playing there. They're still picking up your glitter on the stage! xo

Tweeted yesterday to a person who by her logic is an idiot for coming out before cashing in.

by Anonymousreply 14206/29/2010

Well, she didn't exactly tweet him a love letter, did she?

by Anonymousreply 14306/29/2010

She is right. For a romantic lead. It does not have anything to do with society being more socially accepting it has to do with female audiences believe that the character said actor is playing is going to want to have sex with the female lead. %0D %0D That suspension of disbelief isn't as easy to do when you know that the actor is into cock. Sure a really good actor should be able to play a part and is believabe. I'm sure I watched many closeted gay actors steam up the screen unbeknownst to me their orientation. But sometimes it's hard to get past the actor. %0D %0D I'm not convinced that Tom Cruise is gay but whenever I see him in a movie I cannot help but think crazy, scientologist freak. Sometimes the persona of the actor gets so big that you can't see past it. %0D %0D Having said that I think out character actors create no problems. Frasier was the biggest gay show there was and I had no problem believing bulldog was a pussyhound, I accepted the Dad's love interest and rooted for Niles and Daphane. But if Ted Danson who played Sam on Cheers had been gay and come out, I wouldn't have believed his character's womanizing for a second.

by Anonymousreply 14406/29/2010

r141, theatre is different. Ugly woman can play leads too.

by Anonymousreply 14506/29/2010

I was flipping through the channels tonight, and the old cunt was peddling some FUGLY ass dresses on QVC. Who actually buys her shit? Old fraus in the south?

by Anonymousreply 14604/01/2013

Joan always knows how to turn anything into commerce.

by Anonymousreply 14704/01/2013

She's a cunt

by Anonymousreply 14804/01/2013

She's America's Beloved Cunt.

by Anonymousreply 14904/01/2013
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