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"Roseanne" inconsistencies

Um, "Mark", Becky's boyfriend, was waaayy to hot for Becky. Shit he was too hot for the 2nd Becky. I mean what was wrong with Jackie? She was probably just a few years older than Mark and a career girl - cop/truck drivers bring in good money for those kind of people.

by Anonymousreply 43301/28/2016

The vagina I was dead set to conquer.

by Anonymousreply 105/10/2010

Becky became a dumb blonde when Chalke took over the role. It is like they forgot that one of the reasons Mark was wrong for her was her hoped for bright future due to her intelligence.

by Anonymousreply 205/11/2010

Jackie was a closeted lesbian and more than slightly flakey. Is that an answer?

by Anonymousreply 305/11/2010

The changing grandparent stories are the worst inconsistencies. Roseanne's parents started out as average grandparents; her father was long-suffering and her mother annoying. Then the series had to become relevant. Then Dad became an abuser and the mother an ennabler who didn't defend the girls. And along the way Bev had to get stranger and stranger. Dan's mother was perfectly normal at first. She was divorced from her husband and she had a new relationship. Then at the end she goes crazy and her ex-husband is supposedly not helping her and then it turns out he's been helping her. More drama that has more to do with getting Emmy nominations.

by Anonymousreply 405/11/2010

This "way too hot" shit has got to stop. Especially since it's voiced by the same people who constantly remark that someone is "way too hot" for the person he/she is dating in real life. Hey, it happens. Often.

by Anonymousreply 505/11/2010

Bush family inconsistency. George Sr. was way too hot for Barbara. Next!

by Anonymousreply 605/11/2010

It wasn't that he was way-too-hot that was the inconsistency. He was just way-too-stupid for her.

by Anonymousreply 705/11/2010

Bev's drinking. Was she an alcoholic or wasn't she? In one episode, she portrays the zeal of the newly converted to a 12-step program. Subsequent episodes later on show her drinking wine.

by Anonymousreply 805/11/2010

Two DJs, two Beckys and two Audreys (Dan's mom.)

by Anonymousreply 905/11/2010

How about the biggest inconsistency of all which is the character of Roseanne Connor!!!!! In the first few seasons (the best) she is a HARD-WORKING and CARING mother who wants the best for her family. Then she goes to work at the diner and suddenly becomes lazy?? The woman who fought for other women at Wellman and then swept hair in a salon suddenly has no work ethic?? Soon after that, she spends all her time denigrating her children and husband and shows no love whatsoever.

by Anonymousreply 1005/11/2010

[quote]Dan's mother was perfectly normal at first. Played the fabulous and underrated Ann Wedgeworth. So much better than sad old Debbie Reynolds.

by Anonymousreply 1105/11/2010

I agree. The 'way too hot' thing is ridiculous. Just because you don't 'get it', doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been in relationships with guys that most would say were 'way too hot' for me but I just happen to be the type of guy the 'way too hot' guy likes. Just because someone isn't your type, it doesn't make them undesirable or not hot to someone else. And I don't think Mark was too stupid for Becky either. I've known smart guys and smart women that like their men pretty and not so smart. Like R5 said. It happens. Often.

by Anonymousreply 1205/11/2010

Kevin Healy vs. David Healy. I wasn't too crazy about the last two seasons, but did like the fight between Dan and Roseanne at the end of the penultimate season. It encapsulated the entire show to that point; their frustrations and their anger as all the years of disappointment boiled over. Also, Dan and Roseanne were much "wackier" parents in the first season, always laughing at each other and making jokes. I preferred how they both evolved. Roseanne's sarcasm was better than her "cutesy" moments with Dan's boxer shorts.

by Anonymousreply 1305/11/2010

Let's not forget that Mark wasn't an idiot at first. He just wasn't a desirable mate for Becky. That said, Glenn Quinn looks to be having a blast the dumber they made Mark. There are a few times where you can see him turn his head as he's laughing.

by Anonymousreply 1405/11/2010

Two DJs? I wasn't aware of that.

by Anonymousreply 1505/11/2010

Roseanne's character wasn't just inconsistent because of the laziness thing. Her character changed as Roseanne the actress changed. When she was frumpy her character was real and funny. But when the actress starting getting plastic surgery and became more Hollywood-ized, her character totally changed - it was like 2 different sitcoms and very bizarre.

by Anonymousreply 1605/11/2010

The pilot had a different DJ.

by Anonymousreply 1705/11/2010

Remember that one summer she had that major overhaul. She left that season looking like a chubby Jewish broad then came back in the fall looking like a slimmed down Native American.

by Anonymousreply 1805/11/2010

Roseanne's surgery for season six, coupled with the dyed black hair, made my bf at the time comment that she looked like an eskimo.

by Anonymousreply 1905/11/2010

I write off the awful Debbie Reynolds episode as part of the terrible "dream season."

by Anonymousreply 2005/11/2010

The show became unwatchable about a year after the loose meat diner came into play. Roseanne began to believe her own publicity and decided she was The Voice of Every Woman when she was obviously not. I was actually somewhat surprised they never did a plotline where Dan was abusive to her.

She lost me as a fan when they won the lottery and that stupid season where they did the Gilligan's Island parody. Then she decided every episode had to be profound and meaningful. The show turned into a steaming pile of shit.

by Anonymousreply 2105/11/2010

Wasn't the first DJ fired because Roseanne hated him for some reason? And another cast member actually had a fight with him?

by Anonymousreply 2205/11/2010

The first DJ and Sara Gilbert didn't get along, so the parents took him out.

There were a couple of things that bothered me about the last couple of seasons. For instance, in the Walt Disney episode, Roseanne slaps Galecki across the face for getting too excited. I always thought that was kind of tasteless given how the show made a big deal out of both characters coming from abusive homes.

Also, the kids were pretty much called considered failures by both Jackie and Dann in two different episodes.

It saddened me to see such a great show become so mean spirited and humorless.

by Anonymousreply 2305/11/2010

R22, I read it was Sara Gilbert that Sal Barone (pilot DJ) didn't get along with. If you watch the opening credits for the pilot, Gilbert really pushes him hard into a wall. She probably enjoyed that. Michael Fishman was a pretty mediocre actor at best but he did look like he could have been Roseanne's son.

by Anonymousreply 2405/11/2010

The kids were failures, a fact that I kind of liked considering how many sitcom kids are all so perfect. Becky went from being an A student to eloping and living in a trailer park. Darlene had a promising graphic arts career but she got pregnant and married David. And DJ was just weird.

by Anonymousreply 2505/11/2010

The Disney episodes are not continuity for me (even though apparently Darlene's baby was conceived there) because it was a ploy by ABC to publicize the parks on its shows. Even the dialogue is awful as it's more about promoting the parks. (The worst offender is the Spaceship Earth scene where a woman starts spouting off statistics about it to Dan.)

by Anonymousreply 2605/11/2010

I'm pretty sure Roseanne was wearing a wig around seasons 5-6.

by Anonymousreply 2705/11/2010

[quote]Bev's drinking. Was she an alcoholic or wasn't she? In one episode, she portrays the zeal of the newly converted to a 12-step program.

It was established by Roseanne at the end of that episode that she was not an alcoholic. Bev just got off on the control that she had over everyone by being an "alcoholic" in recovery.

by Anonymousreply 2805/11/2010

Did anyone on this thread actually watch the show to the end? OP, if you think Mark and Becki were implausible, what about ugly Darlene and super hot Mark? It was revealed, on the final show, that the series had all been a creation of Roseanne's character, who started writing after Dan died. The "lottery" part of the show was the part where Roseanne actually lost Dan and was grieving. In "reality", Jackie was a lesbian. Mark was with Darlene, and Becki was with David. I know- ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 2905/11/2010

After the fifth season the show seemed to turn into a forum for Roseanne to try her hand at playing whatever she wanted to from week to week. It stopped telling Roseanne Conner's story and starting serving Roseanne the actress and her agenda. Episodes began to feel wildly inconsistent and excellent performers like Goodman, Metcalf and Parsons devolved into caricature, which was a shame because in its early seasons Roseanne really was an incredible example of what could be done within the family sitcom genre.

Personally, I never had a problem with Roseanne's diminishing work ethic and increased surliness when she went to go work at Rodbell's diner. One thing those early seasons did was provide an honest and clear-eyed account of the tolls the system took on working class people and families. I felt like I understood Roseanne's growing resentment of having to live a life that was valued at eight dollars an hour.

I hated that the show upped the terrible parent factor with Roseanne's mom and dad in the later seasons. Again, I felt like you could understand why Roseanne and Jackie had the issues that they did because their parents were dysfunctional in the way that "normal" people are dysfunctional (he was disinterested and boorish, she was passive aggressive and suffocating). It's like the show didn't trust the audience to understand that you can be annoyed, hurt and angered by your parents without them being abusive (something it seemed to understand in the early seasons). I always wondered if that particular story line was a way for Roseanne to exorcise some of the demons from her own abusive childhood.

by Anonymousreply 3005/11/2010

I only vaguely watched the show occasionally and never got to into it, but did the last episode reveal that the WHOLE show had been in Roseanne's mind of that the LAST SEASON had been in Roseanne's mind. This thread has me confused.

by Anonymousreply 3105/11/2010

It's a fictional show. It doesn't have to be consistent.

by Anonymousreply 3205/11/2010

R31- yup. Roseanne became a writer after Dan had his heart attack and died. She wrote about their family, but fictionalized certain parts. As her character explains it on the last show, she'd always felt that Becki should be with Mark, and Darlene with David, so she switched the couples around in her writing. The whole show was Roseanne's story, as it was written after Dan died. I don't remember why she changed Jackie's character- I don't think it was explained.

by Anonymousreply 3305/11/2010

Oh...and I should add...the lottery part was all completely fictionalized by Roseanne, because she couldn't write about Dan's death- it was too painful for her.

by Anonymousreply 3405/11/2010

Yes, R30, the later years were all for the benefit of Roseanne the actress working on her demons. She had abusive parents so the parents on the show had to be abusive. And in the process the characters, as another poster noted, just became caricatures.

The first seasons worked better because Roseanne, the amateur, surrounded herself with really talented actors like Goodman, Metcalf, and the Oscar duo of Parsons and Winters. (Shelly Winters role fit her to a t and she was wonderful.) And Roseanne became a better actress because of them.

It may be fiction and, therefore, doesn't need to be consistent. But the quality of the writing dipped precariously from the great quality of earlier seasons to a total mess.

by Anonymousreply 3505/11/2010

I have always thought that the show lost quality when Tom Arnold and Roseanne broke up. He may be a crazy SOB, but he brought out the best in Roseanne the character and Roseanne the performer. I leave what he brought out in Roseanne the human being for another thread. I think Arnold must have had a hand in keeping the stories well rounded and focused on the Conner family. After their split Roseanne had no one else to push back against her and she ran creatively free.

The changing storyline of Roseanne’s father is a fair critique, but I have met families that later came out with stories of abuse that I would never have suspected. His later portrayal as an abuser could be seen as the same guy at the Thanksgiving table. I don’t think he appeared on the show more than that one time, did he? And if he had not been made an abuser we would not have gotten the episode where he died and his funeral. That was a great episode for Roseanne, performer and character.

by Anonymousreply 3605/11/2010

The rape episode where Roseanne got pregnant from the rapist and decided to have an abortion without telling Dan didn't connect with her calling Jackie a selfish whore later in the season for wanting to abort her fetus when she thought it had Down syndrome. Of course she miscarried and told Roseanne she had decided to keep it before the miscarriage (I thought having it happen in a car wreck was unnecessary, because of the suggestion she had been drinking - remember the line about what harm could her drinking do since the kid already was retarded?) but you just knew she was just saying that.

by Anonymousreply 3705/11/2010

Not a continuity issue, but for me the worst episode of all was the musical episode that was Roseanne's dream sequence. Horrible, horrible writing, nothing funny or interesting.

by Anonymousreply 3805/11/2010

[quote] Um, "Mark", Becky's boyfriend, was waaayy to hot for Becky. Shit he was too hot for the 2nd Becky. I think Sarah Chalke is really pretty. Roseanne on the other hand changed way too much over the years. When she started out she was practically a "person of Wal-Mart" but got A LOT better looking as the show went on.

by Anonymousreply 3905/11/2010

was the post heart attack fight real or did dan actually die at the wedding?

by Anonymousreply 4005/11/2010

[quote]did dan actually die at the wedding?

My career did.

by Anonymousreply 4105/11/2010

Apparently Dan died at the wedding. Though the "all from Roseanne's writing" ending never really jibed for me. If Darlene was really with Mark does that mean SHE ran off at an even younger age and got married? If Jackie was really a lesbian were all her boyfriends just fictional? How did she have her baby with Fred then?

by Anonymousreply 4205/12/2010

How do you get into the basement? In some episodes there seems to be access through the kitchen. In others, it looks like they go through the laundry room (or outside).

by Anonymousreply 4305/12/2010

[quote]The Disney episodes are not continuity for me (even though apparently Darlene's baby was conceived there) because it was a ploy by ABC to publicize the parks on its shows.

You miss the point. At the time, Disney was practically forcing every ABC show to do a "Very Special Episode" where the characters visited a Disney Theme Park.

Most of these VSE's were crap, but they accomplished Disney's intent of trying to create some synergy between TV and the parks.

But, in Roseanne's VSE, the family doesn't stay together and have a wonderful time. They split up the minute they get in. The "cheerful" park employees are annoying fascists. Dan spends the day drinking his way through EPCOT. Darlene and David fuck on one of the rides. Becky tries to pick up a costumed character.

I can just see Roseanne (the actress) thinking: "They want an episode at Disney World? I'll GIVE them an episode at Disney World."

The whole thing is fucking brilliant!

by Anonymousreply 4405/12/2010

I have to agree with Enid. Having worked at universal and Magic Mtn when I was younger, Roseanne really did do a job on that whole "this is the most wonderful place on Earth" shit those corporate fascists try and ram down everyone's throat.

by Anonymousreply 4505/12/2010

That's funny, R44. I wish I could rewatch that episode now.

I missed the final episode. Was it awful or well received? From the synopsis posted here, it sounds awful, almost as if the viewer had been cheated all those years of watching the show. How did the viewers react at the time?

by Anonymousreply 4605/12/2010

[quote] I missed the final episode. Was it awful or well received? From the synopsis posted here, it sounds awful, almost as if the viewer had been cheated all those years of watching the show. How did the viewers react at the time?

I don't remember the general consensus, but I loved the last fifteen minutes of the finale. I still start to cry a little when I see it in the reruns. Didn't feel like a cheat at all, at least to me.

by Anonymousreply 4705/12/2010

Jackie has hauled meat and she has eaten meat.

by Anonymousreply 4805/12/2010

A little inconsistency, but it always drove me insane. I don't remember the seasons, but in one episode Jackie claimed her favorite Beatle was Ringo; then, in a later episode, she compared something or someone to Ringo Starr in a derogatory way. Character inconsistency that Laurie Metcalf should have noticed.

by Anonymousreply 4905/12/2010

Gotta agree with those who say the show and characters "changed" midway though the series. I'm pinpointing it around halfway though Season 5. Of course this was also around the time Roseanne changed herself. Roseanne stopped being fun and just became a shrew and the harsh new look didn't help either. And yes, all the supporting characters basically became caricatures, instead of the fully-developed characters they were in earlier seasons. Also I remember the show being overly focused on the David character in those years.

The inconsistency that always bothered me the most was what they did to the Roseanne's father. The cheating thing was bad enough, but then the abuse and him being such a monster was hard to believe.

by Anonymousreply 5005/12/2010

[quote]Jackie has hauled meat and she has eaten meat.

Tureen of beef.

by Anonymousreply 5105/13/2010

The Pilot

by Anonymousreply 5205/20/2010

Dads Dead!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 5310/11/2012

He's fine. He sends his love.

by Anonymousreply 5410/11/2012

I remember reading an article about the show when it first started how groundbreaking it was to show low income people on tv. They spoke to the costumers who said they figured out how much the Connors would have to spend a year on clothing and then went to places like Kmart and Sears to get their clothing. That seemed to be the first thing to go out of the window once the show was a hit. Also, it looked like they spent more on the Halloween decorations and costumes for those episodes than the family made in 6 months, but that's telelvision.

by Anonymousreply 5510/11/2012

John Goodman was kinda cute in the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 5610/11/2012

[quote]John Goodman was kinda cute in the pilot.

When he was young and fit, he did a ton of commercials.

by Anonymousreply 5710/11/2012

I don't remember Jackie being pregnant and that she thought about aborting it. Are you sure you are thinking of the right show?!!! I was a faithful watcher of the show and even still watch re-runs and have NEVER seen that episode!

by Anonymousreply 5801/31/2013

Jackie was outed by Roseanne as a lesbian in one of the final episodes.

by Anonymousreply 5901/31/2013

[quote] The rape episode where Roseanne got pregnant from the rapist and decided to have an abortion without telling Dan didn't connect with her calling Jackie a selfish whore later in the season for wanting to abort her fetus when she thought it had Down syndrome.

I don't remember either of these stories.

Hey, around 100 episodes (5 seasons) or so all shows start to suck and/or have inconsistencies, and this show seems to fall into that category. It was season 6 and after that they really started to reach for ideas.

by Anonymousreply 6001/31/2013

The change with Roseanne's father always bothered me the most, especially when you watch some of those earlier episodes when he actually appears. I mean it was clear that that development had nothing to do with character and all to do with Roseanne's personal life.

by Anonymousreply 6101/31/2013

I would also point out the huge change in tone of the show and of the Roseanne character after she got her plastic surgery.

And Jackie became a complete cartoon sidekick after about season 6.

by Anonymousreply 6201/31/2013

I thought it unbelieveable that guys would be interested in the homely, surly, very dykey-seeming Darlene. She might as well have had "LESBIAN" stamped on her forehead. She had no chemistry at all with Johnny Galecki; when they kissed it looked painfully fake. I have no idea why her character wasn't made a lesbian. There was a lot of gay characters on the show; why was Darlene made implausibly straight?

Darlene always seemed to want to break away from the type of life her parents had. She was supposed to be very smart. She waits a long time before finally sleeping with David. And she's so dumb and irresponsible that she doesn't use birth control? That seemed very unlike her. And she decides to keep the baby instead of getting an abortion? Darlene as a mother? The saga of Darlene and David was just plain ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 6301/31/2013

Not continuity, but inconsistency. In earlier episodes, Roseanne and Dan are shown living a hand to mouth existence. The motorcycle shop isn't doing well, they're having a hard time with the utility bills, they have no money to send their smart daughters to college, etc. Then a couple of years later they decide to have another baby? OK. I stopped watching around this time. I don't even know if she had the baby on the show or if they were just trying...

by Anonymousreply 6401/31/2013

R64, it was weird because they wrote it into the show and then Roseanne got pregnant for real. She announced her pregnancy at the beginning of the 1994-95 season and didn't even have the baby until the (horrible) Halloween episode in 1995. It went on forever.

And then the baby barely figured into the storylines at all.

by Anonymousreply 6501/31/2013

Jackie was revealed to be gay? Was that in the final episode, when Roseanne's voiceover reveals that Becky had really been with David, and Darlene with Mark? Or an earlier episode?

by Anonymousreply 6601/31/2013

Turning Bev into a lesbian was the low point for me. And then she has Ruta Lee as her girlfriend.

The worst.

by Anonymousreply 6701/31/2013

I quit watching the show after a few episodes into the second to last season because it had really jumped the shark. I tuned in for the series finale and couldn't believe how ridiculous it had gotten.

by Anonymousreply 6801/31/2013

[quote]Um, "Mark", Becky's boyfriend, was waaayy to hot for Becky.

How shallow are you?

The whole universe doesn't pair up entirely according to how hot two people are.

by Anonymousreply 6901/31/2013

[quote]Tureen of beef.

The funniest line from one of the funniest episodes.

by Anonymousreply 7002/01/2013

[quote] The whole show was Roseanne's story, as it was written after Dan died. I don't remember why she changed Jackie's character- I don't think it was explained.

Well the non-fiction reason is Roseanne wanted the Jackie character to be a lesbian, like her own lesbian sister, but the show's producer wouldn't let her. She hated his guts and got him fired at the first opportunity, after the show hit #1. He went on to produce Home Improvement.

by Anonymousreply 7102/01/2013

It was like at one point she decided to screw up all the characters. And it actaully happened quite early, though people usually only complain about the last 2 seasons. Early on, Dan and Roseanne always worked as a tandem, but then she suddenly became a lazy, agressive nightmare, and Dan a bumbling fool who she couldn't trust with anything. Becky turned into an airhead and Mark a total idiot. And of course, Darlene went from surly teenager to sociopath,and Jackie from neurotic to batshit crazy. Even David had a hint of a spine in his first season, before he moved in. No character stayed consistent in this mess of a show, they all devolved into caricatures. It got boring after that.

by Anonymousreply 7202/01/2013

Whatever its faults, it was one of the few sitcoms with any realism. Cardboard character sitcoms my be more "consistent", but they bore anyone with a brain.

by Anonymousreply 7302/01/2013

R72,characters can be consistent and not be cardboards. I don't see what the two things have to do with each other, really. Anyway, what Roseanne did was turn relatable, realistic and engaging characters into one-note caricatures. They became not only different people from what they started as (inconsistency), but also much more boring and predictable (cardboard characterization). Up until then the show definitely was one of the most realistic ones on TV, but it became much more formulaic from then on. Which is not surprising, since you can only do so much with caricatures.

by Anonymousreply 7402/01/2013

The biggest joke about the "too hot" issue is that if you actually believe the final episode, Mark was with Darlene. Now THAT is ridiculous. No way Mark would have been with an ugly mean girl who had more testosterone than he did. At least the first Becky treated him sweetly when they first started dating. Darlene was just an ugly butch bitch. There would be nothing Mark could possibly see in her. But the final episode was an asshole episode anyway so I shouldn't get worked up over it. RIP, Glenn Quinn.

by Anonymousreply 7502/01/2013

Oops, obviously I meant to address R73.

Yeah, I agree, R75. The couples switcheroo made no sense whatsoever. Darlene and Mark together is just impossible. There's the looks issue, but also, what did they have in common? And why would Mark put up with that sociopath? It makes no sense, and Roseanne obviously did it just because she could.

by Anonymousreply 7602/01/2013

I've read that Roseanne Barr did those switcheroos in the last episode so ABC wouldn't make her have a reunion on down the road. It was a big "fuck you" to TPTB. I guess that is just an excuse to cover up for a really shitty last season.

I could tell that the Roseanne changed a lot by Season 5, and how the characters became caricatures of themselves and the show became a huge parody of itself. Roseanne and Tom Arnold managed to burn bridges and fire a lot of writers in Hollywood, so by the time the later seasons came around, they could only hire cheap writers who were starting their careers. The production costs were extremely high to pay for Roseanne's high salary (Laurie Metcalf and John Goodman were also paid very well, about 400-500K/episode), but the declining ratings of the show meant that ABC wasn't getting a return on their investment (advertisers weren't willing to pay top dollar for a show that was no longer top 5/10/20 and so on). It didn't help that Roseanne Barr began to incorporate too many elements of what her real life was becoming off-camera into the show.

by Anonymousreply 7702/01/2013

Pssssttt it was all make believe.

by Anonymousreply 7802/01/2013

The first couple of seasons were hilarious and realistic. Roseann and Dan were a constantly struggling (financially) couple who genuinely cared about each other and did not take any crap from their kids, which was refreshing. I don't know what happened but I eventually stopped watching it.

by Anonymousreply 7902/01/2013

Another unfortunate inconsistency: Mark appeared shirtless in only one episode.

Surprisingly nice nipples . . . delectably puffy, just begging to be sucked.

by Anonymousreply 8002/01/2013

This is soooooo personal, right r63? Please give us your evaluation of the inconsistencies on Gilligan's Island. I can't wait to hear your take on Skipper and Gilligan.

by Anonymousreply 8102/01/2013

Rules of a good sitcom:

First season very good

Second and third season excellent

Fourth season okay

Fifth season mediocre

by Anonymousreply 8202/01/2013

R82, I found the first season of "Roseanne" a bit too sitcommy. It built and I think the fourth and fifth seasons were the absolute best.

The episode that ends with Becky getting married is so well-structured, building up to an ending we didn't see coming: DJ on the phone chasing the creditors away, the kitchen table scene that ends with Becky running out of the room, the conversation between Becky and Darlene in the bedroom in the morning where Darlene tells Becky she's being selfish to have Mark trapped in the hellhole of Lanford, to the amazing kitchen confrontation Becky has with Dan and Roseanne that changes everything.

by Anonymousreply 8302/01/2013

A particular story inconsistency -

When Arnie first appears, it's stated that he was strictly a friend of Dan's who Roseanne did not really know, hence building an entire episode around the notion that he may have been coming on to her.

Fast forward to season 4 when Jackie sleeps with Arnie - Roseanne specifically says they all made a vow in HIGH SCHOOL never to have anything to do with him.

by Anonymousreply 8402/01/2013

R83, I agree with you on half of the shows from the first season -- that's because the jokes were from Roseanne's club act, and she was not an actor just a standup comic.

by Anonymousreply 8502/01/2013

Better inconsistency, r64: DJ was played by a different actor in the first episode.

Best inconsistency: David's name was originally Kevin.

Ther are always inconsistencies in sitcoms. Did you know that Rhoda referred to a brother in the MTM show that disappeared in the Rhoda sitcom? Her sister was Debbie on MTM. On Rhoda, Debbie was gone and there was Brenda.

by Anonymousreply 8602/01/2013

Excuse me, I meant R84.

by Anonymousreply 8702/01/2013

I still love this show. For me, and I'm sure Roseanne would hate to hear this, is during the years Tom Arnold was a producer and featured actor. They were way better than the preceeding years and the ones that followed. I guess the bullying and threats worked because the stories and scripts were incredible during those seasons. When I watch the show today, it's obvious even without seeing the credits, which episodes Arnold helped shape. Have I liked him anywhere else? NO!, but his contribution to the show, and his departure is what led to the inconsistency.

by Anonymousreply 8802/01/2013

I only like the early shows before they had Mark and David.

by Anonymousreply 8902/01/2013

[quote]Whatever its faults, it was one of the few sitcoms with any realism.

That was true until they won the lottery and not only stayed in Lanford, but stayed in the same shitty house. Yeah, very realistic.

by Anonymousreply 9002/01/2013

They didn't really win the lottery r90.

by Anonymousreply 9102/01/2013

What about when sleepy, suburban Lanford became a burgeoning gay Mecca? Martin Mull, Fred Willard, Sandra Bernhardt and Morgan Fairchild all played recurring gay characters. I appreciate the effort to provide visibility but it was all a bit much. Forced.

by Anonymousreply 9202/01/2013

R91 I know that.

by Anonymousreply 9302/01/2013

Agree with R65. Dan and Roseanne, by then in their forties, having already raised three children and struggling financially, would never have had another child.

For me, this was when the show jumped the shark. It soon completely unraveled.

by Anonymousreply 9402/01/2013

The show does not hold up well at all today. I looks VERY dated.

by Anonymousreply 9502/01/2013

There were two or three actors who played Crystal's son, Lonnie. The first boy was dark-haired and the last one was a blond.

by Anonymousreply 9602/01/2013

What ever happened to Crystal? Actually, what ever happened to most of Roseanne's friends on the show in the later seasons?

by Anonymousreply 9702/01/2013

[quote] The show does not hold up well at all today. I looks VERY dated.

They were poor. It looked dated when it was on, like All In The Family.

As everyone else has mentioned, I think the actual content was great for the first five seasons, not as much after that.

[quote] What ever happened to Crystal? Actually, what ever happened to most of Roseanne's friends on the show in the later seasons?

I think the show started becoming way more about Roseanne, obviously. Sandra B replaced the Crystal character. (Like Laurie Metcalf, Natalie West who played Crystal is in Chicago theater and a member of Steppenwolf.)

by Anonymousreply 9802/01/2013


by Anonymousreply 9902/01/2013

I think roseanne had gone through alot of serious changes like a divorce and fighting with the writers so i think her style changed from sweet mom to kinda having a dark edge cuz she changed as the show got more popular

by Anonymousreply 10002/01/2013

I hated Crystal. She was annoying as fuck. She seemed special needs and why the hell did she have a southern accent.

by Anonymousreply 10102/01/2013

Joseph Gordon-Levitt played one of DJ's geeky pals.

by Anonymousreply 10202/01/2013

Sweet mom, R100??? What fucking show were you watching?

by Anonymousreply 10302/01/2013

[QUOTE]I hated Crystal. She was annoying as fuck. She seemed special needs and why the hell did she have a southern accent.


by Anonymousreply 10402/01/2013

One of the biggest inconsistencies for me?

Lecy Goranson's acting.

The first few seasons she's on, she's fine. Then she disappears, gets replaced, comes back and all of a sudden whatever acting skills she had went to shit. She was literally painful to watch when she came back.

Always made me wondered what the hell happened to her during her time off from the show.

by Anonymousreply 10502/01/2013

Lecy always sucked, especially next to Sarah.

by Anonymousreply 10602/01/2013

Please! Sarahs' Becky sucked big balls. Her amteurish acting notwithstanding, her whiny, ditzy interpretation was an insult to what Becky originally was. And I hated how her scenes mostly consisted of her fighting with Mark or her dad and then storming up the stairs or into the next room or outside. Ugh!

by Anonymousreply 10702/01/2013

Lecy was never great, but she was certainly a hell of a lot better in earlier seasons than when she came back.

by Anonymousreply 10802/01/2013

Just read this. Thought it was interesting: . As time went on, relations between Williams and Roseanne became even more heated and came to a head when she boycotted an episode over one line of dialogue. Of course, the show must go on, and this one did so with its star only appearing in the opening scene and the tag (wearing an armband in protest). That episode, "An Officer and a Gentleman," centered around an absent Roseanne and sister Jackie taking over the Conner household for a few days. It was so well-received that Williams asked Laurie Metcalf and John Goodman if they'd be willing to continue with the show if Roseanne suddenly"¦quit. Both actors refused and later reported the meeting to Ms. Barr, winning her loyalty and support for the rest of the series' run. Matt Williams left the show after the first season and went on to co-create the Tim Allen sitcom Home Improvement.

by Anonymousreply 10902/01/2013

"Nearly Identical Beckys" (starts at 1:04 after the Patty Duke Show intro):

by Anonymousreply 11002/01/2013

Didn't Sarah also play a woman who came to the Connor's house with her kids while they were trick or treating?

by Anonymousreply 11102/01/2013

OMG R110 - I'd never seen that before. Fab!

by Anonymousreply 11202/01/2013

Two additional things-even Roseanne's final monologue was inconsistent-part of the time it was written as the characters on the show were real, I.e. Dan dying, and then it would be as though all the characters were in only in the head of Roseanne, the writer, I.e. her "real sister" being lesbian-thus making Jackie a work of fiction. Q Also,even though Dan didn't have sex with that nurse taking care of his mother, the fact that there was any type of romance between them was completely out of character for Dan--he adored Throughout the series-in fact when he thought he might die with the heart attack, he made it a point to tell her that he never even thought about cheating.on her.

by Anonymousreply 11302/01/2013


Yes, it was a gag as Goranson was back on the show at that point.

by Anonymousreply 11402/01/2013

Yes, R105, in the Halloween episode the season when they brought Lecy back.

And then she played Becky again later that season in the Disneyworld episodes and by then, it was just getting confusing.

And then Lecy left again as the eighth season was supposed to be its final season and Lecy hadn't signed for a ninth.

by Anonymousreply 11502/01/2013

It was a mistake to bring Dawn Weiner on as DJ's girlfriend. Hell, that entire final season was a mistake.

The only thing about it I liked was Jackie confronting Dan about the nurse. Jackie wasn't overdoing it and Goodman did well, especially as the scene began with him razzing Jackie about the fact that she's wealthy now and still hangs around all the time.

by Anonymousreply 11602/01/2013

I did like the final episode of the penultimate season when Dan and Roseanne had the big blowup after the heart attack and years of resentment and anger came out. Roseanne even named all the jobs she'd had to take throughout the series.

It was a good episode.

by Anonymousreply 11702/01/2013

The kid that played DJ originally, was canned because they did the pilot and the writer's strike happened.

By the time it was over, the little kid grew up fast and was bigger than Darlene and Roseanne didn't like this.

As for the Kevin vs David thing, Roseanne explained it when she complained to Dan about Darlene controlling David to much...

"And his name isn't even David, Darlene just made that up."

by Anonymousreply 11802/01/2013


I don't know if that was completely out of character. In the one of the earlier seasons, Dan goes out to lunch with... Phylis? An old high school flame and then proceeds to have sex with Roseanne while imagining it was the other woman.

by Anonymousreply 11902/01/2013

I should have said that I don't think my reply at R119 equates to cheating, but it shows that Dan was sort of weak when it came to getting attention from other women.

by Anonymousreply 12002/01/2013

[quote]One of the biggest inconsistencies for me? Lecy Goranson's acting. The first few seasons she's on, she's fine. Then she disappears, gets replaced, comes back and all of a sudden whatever acting skills she had went to shit. She was literally painful to watch when she came back.

This often happens with child actors. They have genuine acting talent and are unself-conscious, and are great on TV. Then as they age, they become very self-conscious and mannered and become horrible.

Currently this seems to be happening with the two little boys on "Moedrn Family," which was tragic because they were so wonderful the first year of the show.

by Anonymousreply 12102/01/2013

One thing I've always heard about this show/cast is that they were all very close and that the set wasn't dysfunctional like most others are.

Found this interview with a grown up DJ which supports that.

by Anonymousreply 12202/01/2013

"Sarahs' Becky sucked big balls."

R107, SARA GILBERT - DARLENE. Next to her, Lecy's Becky sucked. In fact, all of the Beckys sucked.

by Anonymousreply 12302/01/2013


The Sarah reference was probably to Sarah Chalke, the 2nd Becky.

NOT to Sara Gilbert, who played Darlene.

by Anonymousreply 12402/01/2013

Well I'm right about SARA. She's exceptionally good in this show.

by Anonymousreply 12502/01/2013

r122, the cast members may have been close and had no problems among themselves, but there were enormous struggles and blowouts between Roseanne and various producers/writers/directors - I would definitely call it a dysfunctional set.

by Anonymousreply 12602/01/2013

Coming as late as this does in the series run, this is probably one of the best scenes. The acting, the pacing, the anger and the frustration of their marriage and family comes through.

by Anonymousreply 12702/01/2013

I thought it was hilarious that as the years went by Roseanne's face kept getting smoother and her hair kept getting straighter and darker. At the end of the show her hair was shoe polish black and her features had changed entirely.

by Anonymousreply 12802/01/2013

R128, you forgot her ever present tan in the later shows -- like she just vacationed in the Caribbean. Jackie and Bev got tans very late in the show. Everyone else, white as sheets.

by Anonymousreply 12902/01/2013

I thought Lecy Goranson was fantastic after the first few seasons when she started rebelling and became nasty to Roseanne. She really nailed that snarky, belligerent teen girl attitude. Sarah Chalke was way too shiny-happy people to work as Becky.

by Anonymousreply 13002/01/2013

[quote]I've read that Roseanne Barr did those switcheroos in the last episode so ABC wouldn't make her have a reunion on down the road. It was a big "fuck you" to TPTB. I guess that is just an excuse to cover up for a really shitty last season.

Roseanne was on Joy Behar's show last year, and attempted to defend the last season. She said that it was relevant today and she was ahead of her time and blah, blah, blah.

Anyhow, The NY Times did a profile of then-ABC president Jamie Tarses in 1997 (during Roseanne's last season), and one of the nuggets: Roseanne wanted to continue with the show. She proposed that Roseanne Conner was going to move to Vegas and be a maid at a hotel. But everyone at ABC was sick of dealing with Roseanne and the show's ratings were in the toilet, so they intentionally gave a real low-ball offer, so that she would pass.

by Anonymousreply 13102/01/2013


What's more interesting is that it was common knowledge with ABC Execs that Drew Carey was worse to deal with than Roseanne ever was, but they kept letting him get away with that kind of shit for years.

by Anonymousreply 13202/01/2013

Can someone start a "Grace Under Fire" thread so we can talk about the drama on that show as well?

by Anonymousreply 13302/01/2013

"I did like the final episode of the penultimate season when Dan and Roseanne had the big blowup after the heart attack and years of resentment and anger came out. Roseanne even named all the jobs she'd had to take throughout the series."

That scene, once and for all, expressed the REALITY of Dan and Roseanne: two fat losers in a wretched marriage who produced a bunch of other losers. What they were saying to each other was the absolute truth.

And the next season started out with them winning the lottery and everything was pure fun and games from then on. Godawful!

by Anonymousreply 13402/01/2013

R127, that fight scene was like a throwback to the one in "Canoga Time" from Season 1, where they start throwing each other's stuff out the door, except in that episode it sexed them up so much and they ran to their bedroom to finish it. haha

by Anonymousreply 13502/01/2013

Sarah Gilbert was a passable child actor who did not get better as an actress especially with the poorly written part she had. Darlene basically became a bitch and her character became a sellout: the young girl who couldn't wait to leave Lanford was so stupid to get knocked up so she couldn't leave.

by Anonymousreply 13602/01/2013

I always thought Roseanne was robbed an Emmy nod for the episode where Darlene goes into labor and there is potentially a problem with the baby. Best acting she ever did.

That being said, I may be biased as I know her real life daughters.

by Anonymousreply 13702/01/2013

R132 - Please tell us more! I've heard that Drew Carey was not an easy guy to deal with at all.

Also, I agree that the frustration and anger that came out in that argument in that particular episode was well paced and well acted. Reminded me of arguments that my parents had when I was growing up.

by Anonymousreply 13802/02/2013

The show benefitted from the inclusion of many of Chicago's great theatre actors. Metcalf, Goodman, Natalie West, Parsons, Rondi Reed, Galecki, etc. Casting agents need never visit a coast.

by Anonymousreply 13902/02/2013

[quote]I thought Lecy Goranson was fantastic after the first few seasons when she started rebelling and became nasty to Roseanne. She really nailed that snarky, belligerent teen girl attitude

Agreed. Lecy was anything but a bad actress. She really made you hate Becky when the character became mouthy and sassy.

by Anonymousreply 14002/02/2013

Another thing about the show that never made sense to me was the layout of Darlene/Becky's room and DJ's room. The kids' bedrooms were supposed to be connected via the bathroom (it was mentioned a few times), but the position of their bedroom doors doesn't seem to make this possible.

by Anonymousreply 14102/02/2013


Until she came back.

She was fine when first on the show, but after she took her break, her acting was horrendous.

by Anonymousreply 14202/02/2013

For R132 and R138 - a Drew Carey thread.

by Anonymousreply 14302/02/2013

And for R133 - a Brett Butler/Grace Under Fire thread.

by Anonymousreply 14402/02/2013

I loved the pot smoking episode when jackie says, while in the tub, Is this the sink? Am i shrinking?

by Anonymousreply 14502/02/2013

Yes, the pot smoking episode is one I watch whenever it's on! The, "Did I just say that out loud?" so reminds me of me when I smoke, so I don't.

by Anonymousreply 14602/02/2013

One episode that really gripped me was the one where Jackie's boyfriend Fisher beat her up. It was totally realistic the way Laurie played the scene where Rosie discovers her bruises, and Roseanne was great in those scenes too. Funny how she ended up marrying the actor who played Fisher and having his kid (which she was pregnant with in season 6). Jackie always had the hottest guys pining after her. I liked Michael O'Keefe as Jackie's babydaddy Fred, if for nothing more than to see his hot self on the show every week.

by Anonymousreply 14702/02/2013

R144 Thank you so much!

by Anonymousreply 14802/02/2013

Due to this thread, I started watching the series from the pilot ep (I didn't watch it during its initial run, and only caught the occasional ep in syndication). In the third ep, "DIVORCE", a friend reminds Roseanne of her dream of becoming a writer. I don't know if that was ever mentioned in latter eps. However, I like how that came full circle for Roseanne (even though so many viewers seem to hate how it was done) in the final ep of the series. I doubt that anybody associated with the show so many years later even remembered that reference.

by Anonymousreply 14902/02/2013

[quote]Funny how she ended up marrying the actor who played Fisher and having his kid (which she was pregnant with in season 6).

Unfortunately, Metcalf and Matt "Fisher" Roth separated two years ago.

by Anonymousreply 15002/02/2013

Actually, R149, Roseanne the Writer popped up several times throughout the series run. The one episode that sticks out was the one where Dan builds Rosie a room in the basement for her to write in. She loves the room, but gets writer's block in it. At the end of the episode, DJ tells Rosie something that sparks and idea in her.

by Anonymousreply 15102/02/2013

[quote]Another thing about the show that never made sense to me was the layout of Darlene/Becky's room and DJ's room. The kids' bedrooms were supposed to be connected via the bathroom (it was mentioned a few times), but the position of their bedroom doors doesn't seem to make this possible.

I don't recall anything about connected rooms. The girls had the Master Bedroom of the house. They're bedroom was bigger than Roseanne and Dan's. It had a separate bathroom. Roseanne's room shared the bathroom with the downstairs floor. It had two doors, one in the hallway and other Her room.

by Anonymousreply 15202/02/2013

Ahhhh... That's cool, R151. Because it didn't come from left field, that works for me, and makes even more sense that the character wrote the entire dream season. At least there is some consistency.

by Anonymousreply 15302/02/2013


It is mentioned several times and it's also how she connects with Darlene in later episodes. Darlene pursues a writing career, actually gets a writing offer, I believe, and it sort of reminds Roseanne what her dreams were and how Darlene is living the life she wanted for herself.

I believe it also comes up in the episode where Joan Collins plays her cousin...

by Anonymousreply 15402/02/2013

[quote] Unfortunately, Metcalf and Matt "Fisher" Roth separated two years ago.

I had no idea that she'd also been married to Jeff Perry, who is now on Scandal but was Thatcher Grey on Grey's Anatomy. They have a daughter together and that daughter was apparently in Laurie's most recent play.

by Anonymousreply 15502/02/2013


It's mentioned that the girls have a connected room to DJ in a few episodes. It's mainly mentioned in situations where DJs either spying on them or locks them out, etc.

by Anonymousreply 15602/02/2013


Michael O'Keefe who at the time was married to Bonnie Raitt.

by Anonymousreply 15702/02/2013


What! Jackie was married to Mr. Katimiski???

by Anonymousreply 15802/02/2013

[quote]Michael O'Keefe who at the time was married to Bonnie Raitt

Yep, he sure was. And he was too hot for her, LOL.

by Anonymousreply 15902/02/2013

R155, that daughter also played the younger Jackie in the Halloween episode that was sort of like A CHRISTMAS CAROL and Roseanne is visited by three ghosts. The first one takes her to an event from Roseanne's childhood where she was a bitch to Jackie and Laurie's daughter played little Jackie in that scene.

by Anonymousreply 16002/02/2013

Ted was gross when he had that weird fro and beard. When he cut his hair and shaved, I honestly thought another actor had been hired. He looked so different and, well, hot!

by Anonymousreply 16102/02/2013

He also dressed better. It's like he had a complete makeover.

by Anonymousreply 16202/02/2013


She also played younger Jackie in the episode where a Fortune Teller shows young Jackie and young Roseanne their futures... younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman.

by Anonymousreply 16302/02/2013

One other inconsistency... which isn't so much inconsistency as there's no way it could be factual....

Dan and Roseanne share a Full-Size mattress.

by Anonymousreply 16402/02/2013

You mean Fred, R161. And he was HOT with the long hair and goatee!

by Anonymousreply 16502/02/2013

It's called Sherry Stringfield Syndrome, R142.

by Anonymousreply 16602/02/2013

[quote]younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt played young Jackie.

by Anonymousreply 16702/02/2013

The girl's room had it's entry door on the left of the set and the bathroom on the right. DJ's room had the door on the right side of the set and the bathroom on the left.

It made sense that they connected in the center. If you remember, Darlene is looking to beat DJ up in his room when she walks in on Jackie in the bathroom and sees her bruises.

by Anonymousreply 16802/02/2013


I guess it doesnt make sense to me in terms of how it would work in the hallway if their doors are on opposite sides. I don't see how it would be possible for there to be a hallway.

by Anonymousreply 16902/02/2013

[quote]younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman

In watching the re-runs, I have come to love Fishman. He was a peripheral character and hardly ever in the spotlight, but in seeing more and more each viewing, he really was laugh out loud funny many times. If you watch the bloopers, he cracked Roseanne up all the time.

by Anonymousreply 17002/02/2013

I watched the episode of The Nanny where Roseanne plays Miss Fine's cousin, Freda. Oy. Not good. Her acting had gotten so much better during the run of Roseanne and it was like she forgot what she learned by the time her guest starring role came up.

The Nanny is my favorite tv show of all 90s sitcoms. Between that and Bewitched, I could sit in front of the tv for days.

by Anonymousreply 17102/03/2013

[quote]Joseph Gordon-Levitt played young Jackie.

Not in the fortune telling episode, where Dan plays Madame Zafitg. It's on right now and it, and not very good. Jackie is some other kid.

by Anonymousreply 17202/03/2013

Who is the idiot that said Rosanne and Dan had a bad marriage? They had a fantastic marriage for a being together 18-20 years.

by Anonymousreply 17302/03/2013

Sara Rue played a teenage Roseanne Connor in the Season 5 Halloween episode (in the story of how her and Dan met at a Halloween carnival). She totally nailed Roseanne's quirks and mannerisms. I'm not surpirise she went on to bigger and better things. Abraham Benrubi did look a lot like a younger Dan Connor/John Goodman too.

by Anonymousreply 17402/03/2013

I can't believe I read all these comments, but I have to comment on a few things. First of all, what is wrong with the person who speaks in great detail about the episode where Roseanne gets pregnant by a rapist, and Jackie was going to have an abortion? Are you on drugs? That never happened.

Also, to the total idiots who said Mark was way too hot for Becky, or even Darlene. You see that in real life all the time. Haven't you seen plenty of teenage girls with nice bodies, but ugly faces, but will have guys hanging all over them? Guys only care about the body, and it's not like those girls were ugly. Darlene was not ugly, she had great hair, and a cute figure. So this was realistic.

David was a great character, and so sweet, a boyfriend you would love your own teenage daughter to have. Him and Darlene matched well together, because they were so much alike, while at the same time, so unalike. They were perfect for each other.

I've seen all the episodes, and it was a great show. I don't think the lottery thing should never have happened, or the last episode thing. But it is what it is. There has not been a show as good as this since.

by Anonymousreply 17502/03/2013

[quote]David was a great character, and so sweet, a boyfriend you would love your own teenage daughter to have. Him and Darlene matched well together, because they were so much alike, while at the same time, so unalike. They were perfect for each other.

Too bad Darlene always treated him like shit.

by Anonymousreply 17602/03/2013

R154, my favorite line from that episode was when Roseanne was talking to Joan and said something like, "And where did you get that accent, anyway? You grew up in Lanford!"

by Anonymousreply 17702/03/2013

[quote]Too bad Darlene always treated him like shit.

Don't you get it? She grew up to be Roseanne. Like Mother like Daughter. She treated David the same way as her Mom did Dan. They loved them, but always showed who the boss was.

by Anonymousreply 17802/03/2013

The dynamic of Darlene and David was the comedy, you nitwits.

"Also, to the total idiots who said Mark was way too hot for Becky, or even Darlene. You see that in real life all the time."

The people that post here know nothing of real life, only porn and the luster of the walls of their mother's basement apt.

by Anonymousreply 17902/03/2013

Except when Dan really put his foot down, Roseanne backed away. Like that storyline incolving David living with Darlene at college. Roseanne found out and moved David back, but kept Dan in the dark about the whole thing. When Dan finally discovered what David had been living with Darlene and not his mom like he'd said, he punched a hole in the wall and forced David to move out against Roseanne's objections. And later, when Dan learned that Roseanne knew all along, Roseanne had to flee to Jackie's place until Dan cooled down.

For the most part, Dan let Roseanne get her way, but when he meant business, even Roseanne knew not to cross him. On the other hand, when David tried to be assertive, Darlene always cut him down and laughed in his face, then he retreated back into his shell.

by Anonymousreply 18002/03/2013

"You didn't beat the crap out of Fisher then go buy chicken, did you?"

Yeah, Roseanne knew Dan had a temper.

by Anonymousreply 18102/03/2013

Dan's reaction to Darlene living with David was an aberration. Never before in the show did Roseanne let Dan have his way or was she ever "scared" of his temper.

Have any of you noticed that the show is called ROSEANNE? It's not called Dan, Becky or Mark the hot boyfriend. If it wasn't for Roseanne Barr's act as a comic there would be no show.

by Anonymousreply 18202/03/2013

I agree with the posts that say Roseanne herself was the biggest inconsistency. Roseanne did get lazy by the time she waitressed at Rodbells. When she was working at the chicken place they made it a point to say she was their best worker. Then at Rodbells she was known as lazy and obnoxious. The biggest inconsistency was Dan and Roseanne's relationship. They had more of a partenernship in the early seasons. By the 6th season Roseanne was a horrible shrew that emasculated Dan.

Mark also was inconsistent. He was a badass the first couple of seasons he was on, then dumb as a box of rocks when he and Becky came back. Look wise, he was better looking than LG Becky. But they had good chemistry and were believable. Physically, he went better with SC Becky, but their chemistry wasn't as good as with the original Becky. SC acting was terrible on the show.

by Anonymousreply 18302/03/2013

R180 I used to watch this show with my parents as a kid and I caught one of the later seasons recently and I can't believe the amount of man basing and how Dan's role was diminished.

Dan was a kinda role model for me as the kind of man(despite being gay we're still MEN) I'd like to be when I grew up, then they destroyed his character by having him have an affair.

The message you get from this show is all men are beaters cheaters or just pussy whipped (David), while women can do no wrong and are amazing.

by Anonymousreply 18402/03/2013

Which is funny, r184, because early on when NBC came up with its sitcom response to Roseanne called The Mommies, that was exactly the criticism leveled at it (that all men are stupid or evil and all women can do no wrong). Which goes to show how off the track Roseanne had gotten.

by Anonymousreply 18502/03/2013

Mark was "hot"? Not really.

by Anonymousreply 18602/03/2013

R184 is the show is about women, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Then start a men's liberation group in protest.

by Anonymousreply 18702/03/2013

Someone teach OP the meaning of inconsistency.

by Anonymousreply 18802/03/2013

THE MOMMIES -- gosh, I haven't thought about the show in almost 20 years. Never watched it, but I remember the ads and promos. Frankly, it looked stupid to me, and the dumb title didn't help.

by Anonymousreply 18902/03/2013


Younger Jackie was played by Laurie Metcalfe's daughter, which I think I mentioned when I first posted it. I don't know why the other poster decided to say it was Joseph Gordon Levitt.

by Anonymousreply 19002/03/2013

Here is the episode with the fortune teller. The girl does look a lot like Joseph Gordon Levitt did in his appearances on the show, so the mistake is understandable.

by Anonymousreply 19102/03/2013

R181, punching the man that beat up your sister in law is not based on temper.

Also, Dan had a reputation for getting into fist fights in bars. That's not "temper" that's fighting. He'd never hit Roseanne or anyone in his family.

by Anonymousreply 19202/03/2013

"Who is the idiot that said Rosanne and Dan had a bad marriage? They had a fantastic marriage for a being together 18-20 years"

Oh, please! Their marriage was dysfunctional as hell; two fat slobs struggling to make ends meet. All that joking they did was a defense mechanism they used to gloss over the fact that they and their children were so fucked up.

And their children? Well, their eldest daughter, who supposedly had done well in school and looked like she might make something of herself, got married as a teenager to a loser. Her other daughter goes to art school in order to leave her crummy hometown and be an artist, but instead gets pregnant has has to get married. Her son is a weirdo retard.

Despite having three fucked up children and little money, Dan and Roseanne decide to have ANOTHER baby. Simply put, Dan and Roseanne Connor were pure white trash.

by Anonymousreply 19302/03/2013

Something tells me, r193, that you've never been in any kind if relationship.

by Anonymousreply 19402/03/2013

Don't forget CBS's answer to Roseanne starring the one and only.... Nell Carter!

by Anonymousreply 19502/03/2013

That's awesome, R195! I don't remember that Nell show!

by Anonymousreply 19602/03/2013

And then Fox figured if one fat woman could make a hit show... Three fat women is bound to be a BLOCKBUSTERS!!

by Anonymousreply 19702/03/2013

[quote]I agree with the posts that say Roseanne herself was the biggest inconsistency. Roseanne did get lazy by the time she waitressed at Rodbells. When she was working at the chicken place they made it a point to say she was their best worker. Then at Rodbells she was known as lazy and obnoxious.

I don't think of it as an inconsistency in the Roseanne character. I saw it as a very weary forty five year old woman tired of jumping from meaningless job to job and dealing with a dysfunctional family.

by Anonymousreply 19802/03/2013

The best working moment, R197 and R198, was when Roseanne and Bonnie thought Leon would be promoting someone to replace him as manager of the restaurant. When Bonnie found out Roseanne wanted to be her boss, she went off on her for being lazy, basically saying, "Why should I have to work for a lazy ass like you?"

Roseanne's character was like anyone else: she could suck up like crazy if she needed to.

But in her early days her point of pride was that she was a good worker though she was hardly the pride and joy of the factory.

by Anonymousreply 19902/03/2013

I absolutely loved the show when it first came on the air, but as the years went on, I began to watch only sporadically and then stopped altogether, and I think it had to do with the feeling in the house kind of turning sour.

In the beginning, I always got a sense of how, underneath all the sarcasm and crabbiness, it was a very loving household. Back then, I would totally disagree with the people saying Roseanne and Dan had a terrible marriage - I thought they had a wonderful marriage, clearly still in love, and made great partners. And there was clearly a lot of love between the parents and kids, too. At heart, I think it felt to me like essentially a realistic feel-good show - that despite all the things about Roseanne and Dan's lives that sucked (barely making ends meet financially, jobs that sucked, always being worn out and stressed), the fact that they had each other and the kids and Jackie and their friends made things OK. Like, despite dealing with sucky things, your life doesn't have to suck, and can actually be pretty happy.

But over the years, a sort of bitterness came into the relationships, and their lives came to feel a little more bleak, to me. Which is maybe more real and true-to-life, but I don't really enjoy watching a sitcom about it.

That's just my take on it, others may have experienced the show differently.

by Anonymousreply 20002/03/2013

[quote](Shelley Winters' role fit her to a t and she was wonderful.)

Nana Mary got one of my favorite lines ever:

"Oh, have a beer, Roseanne! It's not like the fetus has to drive!"

by Anonymousreply 20102/03/2013

[quote] But over the years, a sort of bitterness came into the relationships, and their lives came to feel a little more bleak, to me. Which is maybe more real and true-to-life, but I don't really enjoy watching a sitcom about it.

I hear you....whether it was Roseanne's increasing anger about things, or just a cast that had worked together for a long time getting on each other's nerves, that warmth was missing in later years.

by Anonymousreply 20202/03/2013

Babes actually rose above the concept of three fat chicks primarily through the work of the late great Wendie Jo Sperber.

by Anonymousreply 20302/03/2013

Love Wendie Jo! That bitch deserves her own thread

by Anonymousreply 20402/03/2013

Roseanne also didn't waste a second. She was the first to use the end credits and sometimes was the funniest part of the show. Love the one where they drag her out of the bingo hall.

by Anonymousreply 20502/03/2013

The change in tone came with Roseanne's plastic surgery and makeover. She looked so much harder, and in turn, the show became harder.

by Anonymousreply 20602/03/2013

The plastic surgery, the ego that grew as the sitcom became more popular, and the narcissistic belief that one is always right took over Rosanne Arnold and then Rosanne Connor.

by Anonymousreply 20702/03/2013

I don't have an issue with the tone of the show changing. That's what great shows do.

And the way I remember it, the changes in tone did reflect what was going on in the Nation at the time. It was around 1992 and the Economy sucked. Families like those that Roseanne depicted really struggled. People go through shit like that and get angry. I think the show did a great job of capturing that.

by Anonymousreply 20802/03/2013

[quote]The change in tone came with Roseanne's plastic surgery and makeover. She looked so much harder, and in turn, the show became harder.

Even the tone and timbre of her voice changed. In the early seasons she sounded warm and lovable (albeit sarcastic), but after the surgeries she sounded shrill and embittered.

by Anonymousreply 20902/03/2013

Re: the bedroom issue.

We're seeing two different perspectives, which is why we see the hallway door on opposite sides of the rooms. It's the same as when we see inside the garage vs. outside. When we are in the living room, we see the front door on our left and the garage to the right of the house. When we are in the garage, we're to the left of the house (from that perspective.) The same rule applies for the second floor. In one room, we see through the windows facing the street, and in the other bedroom we are looking out the window to the backyard. The room that doesn't make sense in Roseanne and Dan's. We know that window faces the next door neighbours' house, but based on the layout of the front door/porch, that window ACTUALLY faces the street. Perhaps there is an awkward hallway between the bedroom door and the archway?

by Anonymousreply 21002/03/2013

I saw Carson the first time Roseanne appeared with her stand-up routine, and she was hilarious. Then the sitcom was very funny, until it degenerated into a soap opera, with the consistent theme that women rule the Earth and hold everything together while the male of the species is incompetent, lazy, uncouth, and just an all around fuck-up.

by Anonymousreply 21102/03/2013


I still don't think that's it. If one bedroom upstairs looks out onto the street and the other bedroom looks out onto the backyard, they can't be connected by the bathroom the way that it is.

I think this is just something that the show didn't bother to think about.

And we actually know that DJs room is supposed to face one of the neighbor's windows.

by Anonymousreply 21202/03/2013

I saw Metcalf's recent Broadway play which her daughter was in. I saw a very early preview and had no idea at the time that that was her daughter. I was very impressed that they had found this actress who more than held her own and also bore a resemblance to Metcalf.

by Anonymousreply 21302/03/2013

[205] I'm reminded of a running gag throughout an episode. Different members of the Connor family would grab the carton of milk out of the fridge only to discover it had gone bad. Instead of tossing it they placed it back into the fridge. Over the end of the episode credits, Dan takes a sip from the carton of milk and collapses to the floor in convulsions. Before he passes out, he manages to place the carton of milk back into the fridge.

You're right, sometimes the scenes over the end credits were a lot funnier than moments in the show.

by Anonymousreply 21402/03/2013

R211 exactly that's why I have time watching this feminist propoganda show in reruns it didn't start out like that, but I guess after her divorce from Tom Arnold it became more and more like that.

I also hate the way how they portrayed the 2 gay characters on one hand you had Leon who was somewhat stereotypical, a lot of times he came off as a fussy queen.

On the other hand you had Sandra Bernheart who was straight than gay and finally bi I believe she was also unstereotypical. For once on a sitcom can we have a gay/ bi male character who's sexuality is fluid and who is really masculine and his being attracted to the same gender is only a part of who he is, not everything of who he is.

Roseanne set the gay characters up to be patronizing to the audience

by Anonymousreply 21502/03/2013


Speaking of running gags. Apparently, every episode either mentions corn or has a shot of corn on screen.

by Anonymousreply 21602/03/2013


I look at it differently. People tend to forget that back then, there weren't really any gay characters on sitcoms. Roseanne had 4. Whether we liked how they were portrayed or not, she at least had them front and center on her show, which was remarkable for its time and did open the door to having audiences used to the idea of gay characters.

by Anonymousreply 21702/03/2013

Leon was the only voice of reason in the entire cast. He just wanted to run the restaurant as smoothly and profitable with as little drama as possible.

by Anonymousreply 21802/03/2013

"Something tells me, [R193], that you've never been in any kind if relationship."

Something tells me, R194, that you are moronic.

by Anonymousreply 21902/03/2013

Things change, shows change during their run..WRITERS change...jeez, you guys take so much of this too seriously. I haven't watched The Simpsons since the fourth season because it began to suck. Was Marge having substance abuse issues off screen????

by Anonymousreply 22002/03/2013

Leon acted like every AIDS infested 'mo I've ever seen.

by Anonymousreply 22102/03/2013

Okay, here is the floor plan of their home.

by Anonymousreply 22202/03/2013

Here is the exterior of the house. It's a real house in Indiana.

by Anonymousreply 22302/03/2013

I think sitcoms would be better if they were designed to last just 52 episodes. It would be one 52 part screenplay. Each episode would tell a story for that week, in line with the humorous situation, but it would also tell its part of the storyline for the 52 part story.

by Anonymousreply 22402/03/2013

R223 your link does not work.

by Anonymousreply 22502/03/2013

Here you go R225. You can put the address in Google Maps and see it too.

by Anonymousreply 22602/04/2013

Don't know if this was brought up, but there were inconsistencies with DJ's room. Some episodes, the door was on the left and then on the right in others.

Also were we supposed to think each bedroom upstairs had a bathroom?

I remember the episode with Jackie's abuse. She says she's going upstairs to borrow a top from Darlene. Then Darlene finds her in DJ's room in a bathroom. Always found that odd.

by Anonymousreply 22702/04/2013

Always wondered what part of the house that small window was in the middle of the front exterior

by Anonymousreply 22802/04/2013

The show about DJ jacking off was really freaky. Can you imagine your mother and sisters making a big public issue of your private masturbation at the age of 13? Just more anti-male propaganda, which is what television has become.

by Anonymousreply 22902/04/2013

R229: take a pill

by Anonymousreply 23002/04/2013

[quote]Speaking of running gags. Apparently, every episode either mentions corn or has a shot of corn on screen.

There was also that damn chicken shirt. Someone always wore it in every episode.


by Anonymousreply 23102/04/2013


by Anonymousreply 23202/04/2013


by Anonymousreply 23302/04/2013

Roseanne again, this time on the apron:

by Anonymousreply 23402/04/2013

Never picked up on the corn and the chicken shirt. Please tell me Carol Channing guest starred at one point.

by Anonymousreply 23502/04/2013

Is Sonny still buried under that damn bridge?

by Anonymousreply 23602/04/2013


It's been mentioned on here that Dj and Darlene/Becky's room shared a bathroom.

It makes no sense to the layout of the house though because of how the bedroom doors are set for each room.

by Anonymousreply 23702/04/2013


Yes, that one was one of the more obvious running gags. I remember reading about it a little while ago where it was explained:

"The chicken shirt, it was just the ugliest shirt I ever saw and we had this bet between us, the actors; if you show something really bad on TV it takes off. It was like another rebellious artistic statement, that it looks like art when it's on TV."

and then:

"Roseanne liked to wear a white t-shirt that had a large picture of an egg with a chicken. Tom Arnold HATED this shirt so much she did not wear it in any episode while they were married. After their divorce Roseanne used the t-shirt in every episode, she either wore it, took it out of the washing machine, had it in her laundry load or Jackie's, and in an episode about her unborn grandchild even framed it on the wall as a giant painting! She even stops to look at it!"

by Anonymousreply 23802/04/2013

[quote]Tom Arnold HATED this shirt so much she did not wear it in any episode while they were married.

I don't think this is true 'cause that chicken shirt did appear in the early seasons, too. This pic is from Season 2. You can tell by the haircut, which she wore during her salon days.

by Anonymousreply 23902/04/2013

R239, I think that the shirt was worn before and after her time with Tom but not during which might explain it being in earlier shows.

by Anonymousreply 24002/04/2013

Webmaster, PLEASE block the "AIDS infested 'mo" troll at R221 and elsewhere.

by Anonymousreply 24102/04/2013


I don't believe that Roseanne was married to Tom at the time. She didn't marry him until 1990 which I think was the third season of the show.

by Anonymousreply 24202/04/2013

I'm now up to S2 Ep.8 "SWEET DREAMS". This is one of the best episodes of any sitcom I've ever seen! Creative and funny. Who knew? I laughed throughout the entire thing! Even without completing the series, I know it'll be one of my favorite eps (those of you who watched at the time: What did you think of it?).

Signed, Earlier poster who didn't watch the show and didn't know that Roseanne the Writer was

by Anonymousreply 24302/04/2013


What was the episode about again?

by Anonymousreply 24402/04/2013

[quote]What was the episode about again?

Roseanne wants 10 minute alone in the bathroom, falls asleep, and has a dream musical about offing her family. "Weeeee luvvvvvve Roseannnnnnnnnne!"

by Anonymousreply 24502/04/2013

Nevermind R244

I remember the episode. At the time it originally aired I remember not liking it and thinking it was one of the weaker episodes.

by Anonymousreply 24602/04/2013

I really liked S2E10.. Brain Dead Poets Society.

by Anonymousreply 24702/04/2013


Webmaster, please block the guy who thinks censorship of opinions is fine.

by Anonymousreply 24802/04/2013

Funny you mention that episode R243. Roseanne hated Sweet Dreams, called it lame and unfunny, regretted ever filming it and apologized to viewers for that episode when she was on Donahue.

by Anonymousreply 24902/04/2013

Remember the time Roseanne said that she wanted cookies but you never see her eating them? She had a bag of chips instead.

by Anonymousreply 25002/04/2013

It made no sense that Bev was the gay character. I agree with those that say Darlene should have been a lesbian (heck, she really is!)

Mark was so hot; I don't remember a shirtless scene of him. Another tragic death due to drugs.

When they won the lottery, the show lost it; the average viewer couldn't relate to it any more.

by Anonymousreply 25102/08/2013

I would say it lost it's luster well before the lottery storyline. After the first few seasons Roseanne became this bitter character and was no longer much fun to watch.

The earlier episodes had her as a sarcastic but loving woman trying to be supportive of her family while at the same time rejecting conventions. It was refreshing because the house could be a mess. They could be short of money. Unlike other sitcoms where the bills were always magically paid and the living room was always spotless, Roseanne was more realistic.

Then she began to have a vision of herself as some kind of champion for working class women and the show became a platform for her anger. It became sad and uncomfortable watching her spar with Dan. It still had it's moments but there was no warmth left.

It didn't help that she remade her face and hair so she looked like an fat Eskimo teenager. Chubby-cheeked Roseanne looked like a woman you would meet at the supermarket. After the surgery and new hairstyle she just looked bizarre.

by Anonymousreply 25202/08/2013

Something tells me, r252, that you don't know much about teenagers.

by Anonymousreply 25302/08/2013

I always thought that dormer over the front porch was weird. Why would you put a dormer there? There's no room behind it.

by Anonymousreply 25402/08/2013

[quote]Something tells me, [R252], that you don't know much about teenagers.

LOL! Fair enough. I meant the hip flat hairstyle.

by Anonymousreply 25502/08/2013

I think that when John Goodman began to hint that he wanted to leave the show, Roseanne got into her mind that she and Laurie Metcalf could tap into the popularity of Absolutely Fabulous. It seems to me that that is what the lottery season was grasping at.

Roseanne also missed a huge opportunity. When Goodman wanted to leave the show, the ghosts of John Amos-Esther Rolle on Good Times were rattling their chains. Could a popular character continue on without her husband? I think if Roseanne pulled herself together she could have pulled off that change and created a new paradigm for sitcoms.

by Anonymousreply 25602/08/2013

I would like to know why Natalie West left Roseanne? The years with Crystal were better than the years without. Did she and Roseanne get into a bitchfight?

by Anonymousreply 25702/08/2013

Natalie West made appearances into season 6 well after she was dropped from the regulars.

I think she was also part of the Roseanne publicity during the time of the DVDs - no seeming bad blood.

by Anonymousreply 25802/08/2013

The show got off track with the shift in focus. The later seasons seemed to be all about David all the time. I also think having Jackie get pregnant changed that character and not for the better.

by Anonymousreply 25902/08/2013

There was some rumor that Natalie West was dropped after she spoke to the tabloids about Tom and Roseanne's relationship.

by Anonymousreply 26002/08/2013

R259 then why was Natalie's West blurred in the DVD extras, when they interviewed certain cast members and they'd show a scene from the show?

by Anonymousreply 26102/08/2013

I hated the show after Natalie left. That's also when Lecy left. Who knew the show would change so much without those two characters?

by Anonymousreply 26202/08/2013

Yeah, I usually only watch the first 4 seasons. I still enjoy the 5th season after Becky #1 left, but I didn't like when Mark and David became mainstay characters. Then Season 6 with Becky #2 and the whole Fred garbage, I can't deal with it anymore. Not to mention Roseanne's appearance and attitude changed drastically.

The show was better when it focused on the family and their struggles. No boyfriends, husbands, outrageous storylines.

by Anonymousreply 26302/08/2013

I think the best episode they ever did was Terms of Estrangement part 1 and 2 of season 5 when Becky left. Roseanne, Goodman, and Lecy all really did some nice dramatic work and the final scene between Roseanne and Lecy was heartbreaking. You could tell it was really goodbye for those two.

by Anonymousreply 26402/08/2013

Roseanne Barr and Laurie Metcalf had way better chemistry and played off of each other better than Roseanne did with Natalie West. Producers and writers noticed this early on and realized that they could create more plots with the main character and sister than they could with a traditional sidekick suck as Crystal/Natalie West.

by Anonymousreply 26502/08/2013

Crystal was the Caroline Appleby to Lucy & Ethel. Funny to have around once in awhile, but isn't right to be in every episode.

I think they also missed an opportunity early on when they didn't have a best friend for Dan. They tried to do it with Fred later on but by that time it just didn't work.

by Anonymousreply 26602/08/2013

[quote]Mark was so hot; I don't remember a shirtless scene of him.

He showed his crack in the Thanksgiving '94 episode. David fixed Mark's pants, but when Mark insults David for the umpteenth time, David rips the seat of his pants. Skip to 24:54 for the end credits scene. They try to blur it out, but as Mark turns around to walk away, the blur doesn't stay on the crack. Get your pause button ready. :-P

by Anonymousreply 26702/08/2013

I've noticed that in the scene where Dan and Roseanne have that screaming argument Roseanne is wearing what is obviously a professional makeup job. They're supposed to be a blue collar couple with little means and she's wearing a makeup job that looks like it's been applied by Bobby Brown? So stupid.

by Anonymousreply 26802/08/2013


I don't think it was that far fetched that Bev turned out to be a lesbian. She was a repressed housewife from the 50's who was angry, bitter, and drank. She was also forced into marriage because she was pregnant and it was a loveless relationship which also turned out to be abusive. I don't see it as being that far from reality that someone like her would also be repressing homosexual feelings.

by Anonymousreply 26902/08/2013

Dan had friends early on, but again, as the focus shifted, it became less about him. I also liked when Roseanne had a group of friends who were recurring. That also disapppeared when the bitterness overtook the show.

by Anonymousreply 27002/08/2013

R261 I don't remember West being blurred out but I remember that the baby she was holding was. The faces are blurred out in the extras because the company that ones the dvd rights would be required to pay the actor more royalties

by Anonymousreply 27102/08/2013

R270, that was not bitterness, it was sarcasm.

by Anonymousreply 27202/08/2013

No, r.272, it was not sarcasm. It was bitterness. Roseanne became angry and bitter and was nothing like the woman from the first 4 seasons. That was sarcasm.

by Anonymousreply 27302/09/2013

It was sarcasm. That's what I think, you cannot "talk me out f it."

by Anonymousreply 27402/09/2013

Bitter or sarcastic, many of the later seasons sucked. Way before the lottery season.

by Anonymousreply 27502/09/2013

I remember when the episode originally aired, Mark's butt WAS shown at the time. In reruns it's been blurred.

by Anonymousreply 27602/09/2013

R275, ALL sitcoms suck in the last two seasons.

by Anonymousreply 27702/09/2013

Sarcasm was the first several seasons when the audience was still able to root for Roseanne. That arc with the priss neighbor comes to mind as a good example.

During the later seasons, she and the show were most assuredly bitter - there was no underlying enjoyment or playfulness that helped make this downtrodden, workaday family loveable.

by Anonymousreply 27802/09/2013

Why do you feel the need to repeat yourself, r278?

by Anonymousreply 27902/09/2013

Sure the tone changed after the first few seasons, so what? It was still one of the best shows on and broke a lot of barriers that weren't being addressed on sitcoms at the time. People seem to forget that.

Plus, I don't think it was that out of character for Roseanne to become more sarcastic, cynical, and to those who want to call her angry and bitter, as the show went on. This was around 1992 and the Economy was shitty and caused a lot of stress, anxiety, fear, and anger in people across the country. I think it was actually pretty realistic.

by Anonymousreply 28002/09/2013

Does anyone know why the show became so David-centric? Is it just because the girls were gone?

by Anonymousreply 28102/10/2013

Also, I've always wanted to know what the heck happened when Lecy returned. Why did she leave again?

by Anonymousreply 28202/10/2013

[quote]Why did she leave again?

Lecy left to go to college.

by Anonymousreply 28302/10/2013

r283, no - I meant the second time when she returned. Not sure what season that was. And then Sarah Chalke was brought in again.

by Anonymousreply 28402/10/2013

Most inconsistent things you ask?

Roseanne Barr's sanity and surnames.

Still, the best show that's ever been on T.V.

by Anonymousreply 28502/10/2013

Television is one word. The abbreviation is TV, not T.V.

by Anonymousreply 28602/10/2013

OP, he's not too hot for her anymore...

by Anonymousreply 28702/10/2013

Lecy reportedly left for good because the tone of the show had changed drastically. She felt it just wasn't the same show by then.

by Anonymousreply 28802/10/2013

So basically Lecy said what every DLer has been saying.

by Anonymousreply 28902/10/2013

I dare you to not laugh at DJ!

by Anonymousreply 29002/10/2013

In the series finale "Roseanne" the character reveals that the whole series was a fictionalized account of her life; with key changes made for, frankly absurd reasons. I believe this was a clever way of reclaiming, in the mind of the audience, the truth about "Roseanne" the series.

The entire premise-which was pretty brilliant and totally unique for it's time-was created entirely from Roseanne Barr's stand-up routine which she had refined and developed for years before Hollywood came to her with an offer to build a series around her work. What she failed to realize was that an unscrupulous Carsey-Werner producer would DEVELOP her CREATION into a sitcom format; then have the audacity to claim the "Created by" credit merely for shaping and refining HER show.

When Roseanne Barr protested, and rightfully so, she was actually denied the right to have his name (Matt Williams) removed and replaced with her own. This was the outcome of an appeal to the Writers Guild of America, which obviously stuck up for one of their own slick, overpaid, Hollywood hack writers over the rights of an average, working class woman who made it to the top through guts, talent and sheer determination.

Perhaps the WGA provides some benefits to it's members, I wouldn't know; but I DO know they apparently have a great deal of power when it comes to keeping new people with new ideas from getting anywhere near a network production. They even kept Prospect Park, a production company from re-launching the online versions of "All My Children" and "One Life to Live" for over a year. The WGA did finally relent once Prospect Park caved and signed a contract basically ensuring that ONLY writers from canceled soaps would be allowed to write for-more likely, recycle-the tired old plots and dialogue that destroyed soaps in the first place.

That last episode, I believe, was a very satisfying, overdue "F-You" to Matt Williams and the WGA for stealing credit for Roseanne Barr's work by denying her the "Created by" credit we all know she deserved. It doesn't fully make up for the injustice-but at least Roseanne will be remembered always as a television pioneer. Matt Williams surely has a ton of money for taking the work of other successful stand-up comedians and appropriating it to "create" sitcoms and "write" scripts; but his WGA cronies can never make him into a legend. That takes hard work, artistic integrity and a divine spark of talent: three things the WGA can work tirelessly to keep out of the business, but can never take from Roseanne Barr and the masterpiece SHE created.

by Anonymousreply 29102/10/2013

Don't forget Roseanne's original husband, Bill Pentland, who was her writing partner.

by Anonymousreply 29202/11/2013

[quote]Lecy reportedly left for good because the tone of the show had changed drastically. She felt it just wasn't the same show by then.

Was that the "safe" reason? Years ago I caught Roseanne and Tom on Howard Stern. Stern told Roseanne that he heard Lecy had left because she was having an affair with a much older producer or a someone-or-other who worked on the show. Rather than deny it, Roseanne asked, "How did YOU hear about that?" And that was it. She didn't say anything more than that and the subject was changed.

by Anonymousreply 29302/11/2013

Wait a sec. I may have misread the quote. My understanding is that Lecy left the first time due to the affair she was having. Don't know what was up the second time.

by Anonymousreply 29402/11/2013

Nice to see Roseanne showing up here as r.291. The finale sucked as did the last few seasons.

by Anonymousreply 29502/14/2013

Lecy left because the show was supposed to end with Dan having a heart attack and at the last minute Roseanne agreed to do another season.

This also explains the weak storyline as no one had anticipated coming back for another year and it gave Roseanne a chance to run amok.

Lecy was asked to come back but had other projects she couldn't get out of.

by Anonymousreply 29602/14/2013

Back when it was airing, I didn't notice it, but now seeing some of the the later episodes, the show did become a LOT about David.

by Anonymousreply 29702/15/2013

Which was good because they needed a young male and DJ was worthless as a character and the actor who played him couldn't act.

In fact Laurie Metcalf, and to a lesser degree John Goodman, were the only talented ones in the cast. Without those two in the cast, Roseanne couldn't have made it past mid season of season 1.

by Anonymousreply 29802/15/2013

I disagree, R298. Michael Fishman may not have been an "actor", but he was funny and totally realistic as an everyday kid. You couldn't even tell he was "acting" most of the time, he was that real. And Roseanne may not have been great in season one, but as the years went by her acting greatly improved. She always brought it when it came to the dramatic stuff (i.e., Roseanne regrets hitting DJ; Roseanne reacts to Jackie being beat up by her boyfriend Fischer; how Rosie takes learning Dan cheated on her).

by Anonymousreply 29902/16/2013

I LOVED this show -- and still do. What I always thought was funny is that in every episode the refrigerator is right up next to the edge of the door-facing going into the living room -- but in all the opening credits it's always several feet or more down the kitchen wall from that door-facing with other furniture by the door-facing. Also, supposedly in season 1 corn is mentioned in every episode, and in season 5 there's a tacky pullover t-shirt with a couple of large chickens on it and many of the cast members wear it in different scenes on all the episodes from that season. Even Dan wore it at the end of one of the episodes sitting on the couch. Hilarious!

by Anonymousreply 30002/22/2013

R293 It wasn't an affair. It was supposedly "sexual harrassment"

by Anonymousreply 30102/22/2013

TV Land is having another Roseanne marathon at this very moment -- the better shows, the early ones. The tornado show is on right now!

by Anonymousreply 30202/23/2013

If you look at the first season, you will notice how much John Goodman's Dan changed in appearance, though not as much as Roseanne, but plenty during the series. In the beginning he's a fat tub with a sweaty mop of uncombed hair. Later, the mop is always coiffed and dyed. The sweat is rarely visible if at all.

by Anonymousreply 30302/23/2013

and remember that David had a different name at first.... cant recall it though~

by Anonymousreply 30408/06/2013

Did anyone ever explain that name change? The episode where David was introduced as "Kevin" was on last night.

by Anonymousreply 30508/06/2013

I watched when it originally aired, but was too young to recall how jarring it was to see Roseanne's facial change during season 5. It seemed like the season started with her normal face, then morphed several episodes in.

by Anonymousreply 30608/06/2013

omg i love every season of this show!!! you all are crazy for knocking any episode of it! i watch it every night and i love it.. every episode from the first to the last makes me laugh and i can relate to at least one thing she says in every single episode! don't overthink it, it's a tv show. take it for what it is and love it :)

by Anonymousreply 30711/26/2013


There's an episode where its addressed. I don't remember which but they basically say that David isn't even his real name, Darlene just changed his name because she liked it better.

by Anonymousreply 30811/26/2013

Dan's background was somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes he's described as the star football player in high school, whose name is still in the trophy case, and in some episodes he's described as the bad-boy biker who Roseanne's mom was afraid of. I suppose these two descriptions could co-exist in one person, but I've never seen it.

by Anonymousreply 30912/16/2013

Isn't the "Gilmore Girls" storyline with Paris going insane as Yale paper editor-in-chief and treating staffers like shit -making them wear numbers and only addressing them as their number, the whole venal, micromanaging, psychotic break- payback from Amy Sherman-Palladino, "Rosanne" vet ( along with Joss Whedon)?

Judging by their work post-"Rosanne", fair to say they were carrying you more than you're genius did them, R291/Rosanne

by Anonymousreply 31012/16/2013

On the old Gilmore Girl TWOP forums, it was decided that Paris' breakdown was a deliberate jab at Roseanne. Michael Ausiello later said the same thing, but I think writers were given t-shirts and not hats.

by Anonymousreply 31112/16/2013

R310 - I thought it naturally flowed from what we knw about Paris.

by Anonymousreply 31212/16/2013

R306, Season 8's intro with Roseanne morphing into her various looks was rather disturbing. The plastic surgery and whatever else she had done was rather apparent.

by Anonymousreply 31312/17/2013

The very first episode of Roseanne featured a DJ who wasn't Michael Fishman.

by Anonymousreply 31412/17/2013

To me, the most jarring inconsistency will always be how they demonized the father for the sole purpose of aping Roseanne's real-life experience.

by Anonymousreply 31512/17/2013

I enjoyed all of the plastic surgery Roseanne had. I base my favorite seasons off Roseanne's appearance. My favorite seasons were when she had jet black, straight hair, was thinner, and had a dark complexion.

by Anonymousreply 31612/17/2013

Does anyone know how long the final episode/season with all its explanations was planned in advance?

Did she know that that would be the ending before the start of that season?

by Anonymousreply 31712/17/2013

That awful last-season episode (but most of the last season was awful, anyway) with Debbie Reynolds as Dan's mother was on recently. UGH!

The re-cast, change in character and now playing her mental illness as a joke -- what a suck fest (and not in the good way).

And the most outlandish thing of all: Dan seriously believes his mother is trying to kill him. A real insult to people who really liked this show and stuck with it through the end.

by Anonymousreply 31812/17/2013

From what I hear, the previous season was supposed to the final one which is why Lecy Goranson came back.

But it didn't work out that way.

by Anonymousreply 31912/17/2013

Roseanne's real life farther still doesn't speak to her because of the false abuse accusations she made against him. She has reconciled with her sister though.

by Anonymousreply 32012/17/2013

I never watched this show regularly. But I remember that Jackie was a cop at one time. And a truck driver. So what happened to those two careers? Did she just quit both jobs? It would seem to me that it would have taken a fair amount of effort to get a job as a cop or a truck driver, and both jobs pay a good wage. So did she just quit them both? Just curious.

by Anonymousreply 32112/18/2013

She was injured as a cop & had to retire; I can't remember exactly, but I think she gave up truck driving when she went in on the restaurant w/Roseanne (and also had a baby).

by Anonymousreply 32212/18/2013

In the Thanksgiving episode about the father's affair, they refer to him as 60. Huge inconsistency considering the actor who played him (name escapes me) looked like he was well into his 70s when he first appeared in season 1.

by Anonymousreply 32303/12/2014

I personally always thought that Mark was more in love with Lecy's Becky than Sarah Chalke's Becky.I think it really showed in the episodes "suck up or shut up","busted",and "lost youth". Mark would have never left Lecy's Becky or attempted to cheat on her like he did in those episodes with Chalke's Becky.

by Anonymousreply 32403/15/2014

Becky and Mark should have just split up for good. He was to bone headed for her! Becky #1 was an intelligent girl, i just can't see her going for a guy like Mark who was to dumb to even remember her middle name!

by Anonymousreply 32503/15/2014

Jackie was so annoying. She was a nosy moocher, a neurotic tramp, and never knew when it was time to go home.

by Anonymousreply 32603/15/2014

Both Becky and Darlene were idiots. Both of them wanted something better for themselves...and both of them threw their chances away for a loser guy. Two loser brothers, in fact. Becky and Darlene were both supposed to be "smart", but I guess deep down they were both really dumb.

by Anonymousreply 32703/15/2014

Ugh..I hated Mark!!! I couldn't stand his chauvinistic pig attitude.I mean I know he had some good qualities,but i just can't like him no matter how hard I try because of his male ego and overly masculine attitude.He was such an ASS to Becky whenever she tried to get more independent and go to school simply because she'd be "superior" than him.David on the other hand, I actually liked because he was a nice kid and supported Darlene's career, something Mark never did for Becky.

by Anonymousreply 32803/15/2014

R328, they both did it - just using different tools. while marl would become outwardly upset, david would make darlene feel bad about it by his passive aggressiveness: saying it was ok but then be hurt by darlene actually doing it. the irony of it was to me that they did it for the exact same reason: fear of being left behind. i remember one scene with mark going along the lines "...and how many doctors do you know who are married to mechanics?"

by Anonymousreply 32903/15/2014

R328, not really. David broke up with Darlene when she "dared" to go to Chicago for art school. Then when she started dating someone else there, David got her in trouble with her family by claiming she was using drugs. Basically, he was trying to sabotage her chances so that she'd be forced to return home.

by Anonymousreply 33003/15/2014

Mark didn't start out being dumb. He was a bad boy but not dumb. In fact none of them were dumb at the beginning. One of the best qualities of the Roseanne character was that no matter how shitty the job she was a hard worker, usually the best there.

Why the actress Roseanne decided to dumb down every single character on the show including her own and show them as lazy never wanting to do a good day's work if they could get away with it was beyond me. She acts like her show was a champion for working class Americans but it was only that for maybe the first 3 years. She was that way at the factory, at the beauty salon and that fast food place, never again once she worked at the mall restaurant and even at her own restaurant she didn't want to be bothered doing any real work.

Dan too became a slacker. The only character who wasn't too dumbed down was David.

by Anonymousreply 33103/15/2014

Always hated the later seasons when the show focused a lot on David. Never understood the appeal there.

by Anonymousreply 33203/16/2014

[quote]I think that when John Goodman began to hint that he wanted to leave the show, Roseanne got into her mind that she and Laurie Metcalf could tap into the popularity of Absolutely Fabulous. It seems to me that that is what the lottery season was grasping at.

It was! The previous year, Roseanne had bought the rights to Ab Fab and was going to make a US adaptation with Carrie Fisher, Barbara Carrera and Sarah Chalke (who was out of work, since Lecy Goranson had resumed the role of Becky). I don't know if they ever shot the pilot, but it didn't go forward. So then, Roseanne made her own (awful) version through her show.

by Anonymousreply 33303/16/2014

I don't like how Darlene started off as unintelligent and later she got smart and same with Becky who was initially extremely intelligent and later became a ditz.As for the relationship switch at the end NO WAY would Mark go for Darlene.However I can actually see Becky with David though.

by Anonymousreply 33403/18/2014

I too disliked Mark, he was an oaf and he was such a bully to David. On top of that he was a bad husband to Becky! If he really loved her he would of supported her education and wanted her to have a better future.

by Anonymousreply 33503/19/2014

r334, I don't think they ever characterized Darlene as unintelligent, quite the opposite. She was just lazy in regard to school.

by Anonymousreply 33603/21/2014

In real life Mark Quinn died of AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 33703/21/2014


[quote]If he really loved her he would of supported her education and wanted her to have a better future.

Absolutely right! And because he didn't support her education she probably goes around saying things like, "would of," instead of, "would HAVE."

by Anonymousreply 33803/21/2014

R334, I agree about Becky turning into a ditz after Sarah Chalke took over, but I disagree that Darlene was portrayed as stupid in the early seasons. From the get-go she was portrayed as quick-witted and sharp. Her problem was that she was lazy or uninterested in academics; her main concern was to be a great athlete. But when she applied herself she could be an outstanding student. Case in point: in the second episode of Season 2 ("Brain Dead Poets Society") when she writes that poem that impresses everyone. She certainly had a knack for creative writing early on, which was honed later when she and David teamed up to create comic books and then when she went off to a Fine Arts College.

by Anonymousreply 33903/21/2014

It wasn't really about Becky turning into a ditz per say - all the characters became one-note after season 6.

by Anonymousreply 34003/21/2014

I also don't think it's a big deal or inconsistent that Becky became dumber later in the series. She was married to Mark after all... I've been around enough people who married people a lot stupider than they were and then all of a sudden, they became just as stupid. A lot of people have tendencies to get lazy and stop using their brain when they don't have to.

by Anonymousreply 34103/21/2014

[quote]In real life Mark Quinn died of AIDS.

He died of a drug overdose. And it was Glenn Quinn.

by Anonymousreply 34203/21/2014

Not so much an inconsistency as a poor plot device- Roseanne getting the job in season 2 and then losing it almost instantly as she didn't know how to work the computer.

This was 1989 and computers were hardly as user friendly as now. You'd think that would have been a question to be asked.

by Anonymousreply 34303/21/2014


by Anonymousreply 34403/21/2014

[quote]In real life Mark Quinn died of AIDS.

I love how Datalounge is so matter of fact with incorrect information.

by Anonymousreply 34503/21/2014

Why was Darlene not made a lesbian? That would have been a lot more interesting than her insipid romance with David. Sara Gilbert and Johnny Galecki had no sexual chemistry at all and no wonder; Gilbert is a real life lesbian, and it shows. Whenever she kissed Galecki she might as well have been kissing a block of wood. A gay Darlene might have made for some good episodes; Darlene coming out, her family's reaction to it, her first relationship with another girl. There were plenty of gay characters on the show; why not Darlene?

I never bought Darlene as a caregiver or nurturer, either. There's Darlene, weird, dissatisfied Darlene, who goes to art school and wants to get out of her crummy hometown and what does she end up doing? Getting pregnant, and finding out that having a baby is the answer to all her longings. God, what a stupid storyline. If anybody should have gotten pregnant, it should have been Becky. It would have been much more believable to have Becky find fulfillment in motherhood than Darlene.

by Anonymousreply 34603/21/2014

Perhaps this was Sara Gilbert's choice, not your's. The producers should have contacted you.

by Anonymousreply 34703/21/2014

"Perhaps this was Sara Gilbert's choice, not your's.'

Why should it have been Sara Gilbert's choice? I never heard that she was in charge of what happened on the show.

Darlene should have been a dyke.

by Anonymousreply 34803/21/2014

Don't forget that Jackie also worked as a squirt girl at Rodbells.

I never understood why they ditched the loose meat restaurant storyline. It seemed like a believable story for Roseanne.

by Anonymousreply 34903/21/2014

[quote]Why was Darlene not made a lesbian?

The show already had 3... just how many more Lesbians and Gays did you want the show to have?

by Anonymousreply 35003/21/2014

"The show already had 3... just how many more Lesbians and Gays did you want the show to have?"

That's what was so strange...all those gays, and yet the most obvious choice for a gay character was made heterosexual for some reason. And not just heterosexual, but VERY heterosexual: married and pregnant and finding out that having a baby in her belly makes everything alright.

I suppose the reason for that was because Sara Gilbert was still in the closet and figured if her character was gay then people would think she was too. But Jesus, it was OBVIOUS she was gay! She wasn't fooling anybody.

by Anonymousreply 35103/21/2014

The loose meat story lines were connected with her marriage to tom Arnold. Arnold is from Iowa and the sandwich is very popular in in that state. At the time tom and roseanne had a diner in Iowa with the sandwich being the main speciality. Tom and roseanne were building a large mansion at the time they split up. The mansion was never completed and is abandoned.

by Anonymousreply 35203/21/2014

Thanks r352. It seemed all of Dan's business ventures failed (drywall, motorcycle shop), so I thought that Roseanne would empower the women of the world by being a successful business owner.

by Anonymousreply 35303/22/2014

Fun fact: Patrika Darbo was in an episode of Roseanne as a woman who Dan fantasizes about. Then she played Roseanne in the made for tv movie "Roseanne and Tom: Behind The Scenes"

by Anonymousreply 35403/22/2014

R354, that's like when Patsy Kensit was cast as Mia Farrow in the 1995 TV movie LOVE AND BETRAYAL: THE MIA FARROW STORY, which dealt with the whole Woody Allen-Soon Yi fiasco. As a tyke, Kensit had played Daisy Buchanan's daughter in the 1974 version of THE GREAT GATSBY, starring Mia as Daisy.

Back to Roseanne, Danielle Harris (most renown as Michael Myers' niece in the HALLOWEEN movies) played slutty next-door-neighbor Molly Tilden (and Darlene's nemesis) for one season of ROSEANNE (1992-1993). A year later, she was cast as Roseanne's daughter Jessica in the TV movie ROSEANNE: AN UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY (also 1994), which was an unflattering portrait of the star.

by Anonymousreply 35503/22/2014

[quote]I suppose the reason for that was because Sara Gilbert was still in the closet and figured if her character was gay then people would think she was too. But Jesus, it was OBVIOUS she was gay! She wasn't fooling anybody.

You can say that again! Even as a little kid watching the show I could tell Sara was gay. I didn't believe she was "just" a tomboy at all.

by Anonymousreply 35603/22/2014

I always thought Sara Gilbert and Lecy Goranson looked kind of...masculine.

by Anonymousreply 35703/24/2014

Dans father / first dan cant even have dinner with him / then he likes him /then his father gets crystal pregnant twice but doesnt appear at all maybe the actor died

by Anonymousreply 35804/29/2014

Fisher jackies bf / becky knows him from school meaning he is 18 or younger / they dont use him in any episodes / he physically abuses jackie even though she is a trained cop / in the same season "stand on your man" features all of the ladies taking self defense and jackie has already been to the class

by Anonymousreply 35904/29/2014

My female cop cousin was beaten by her psychotic ex-husband and has a scar for life because of it. For years I wondered why she didn't just shoot his ass.

by Anonymousreply 36004/29/2014

Shelly winters age as Nana

if all of the women had kids when they were in their 20's that makes Roseanne 40 Estelle 60 and Shelly 80

they are both great actresses and are well cast but nana would be frail and should of had grey hair like Estelle

by Anonymousreply 36104/29/2014

Glen had AIDS and died of it, they don't list AIDS as a cause of death anymore, dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 36204/29/2014

They never portrayed Jackie as having artistic interests (the community theater episode doesn't count because she wasn't interested in it artistically), so the episode where Bev is angry to find out that Jackie was accepted at the art school but hid the letter from her parents didn't ring true. Bev described Jackie as having had a spark artistically, and then said their dad always said she should be a lawyer because she liked to argue (which was another inconsistency, as Roseanne was the argumentative one).

Roseanne was the one who wrote poetry and was interested in music, and even fantasized about being hippie-ish with Dan. Jackie was first portrayed as a follower of get rich quick philosophies, and then was just kind lost and flaky in between romances.

by Anonymousreply 36310/28/2014

What happened to Chrystal's 2nd pregnancy? Did she have a girl? I can't remember much beyond her getting really mad and yelling at Dan about Ed being a ne'er-do-well. And then the pregnancy was gone--and so was Chrystal for that matter.

by Anonymousreply 36412/28/2014

I agree Roseanne had too much say which really ruined the show as the seasons went on. Things I've noticed or wondered about. entrance to basement? in the kitchen or laundry/mud room? Did DJ and the girls share a jack & jill bathroom? they enter DJ's room from both sides throughout the seasons. And he did have a bathroom. Roseanne's father went from supportive funny old man to abusive distant cheater. Dan's mom went from sane woman to crazy mental patient. David as Kevin when we first met him. Was DJ Dan Jr or David-I believe they called him David early on when they said his full name. They like to use the same names through out the show. Like Leon came up a few times. 1st becky was smart, 2nd wasn't as smart. but when the 1st came back the character changed back to smart. I understand changing actors but to have them have completely different personalities. I thought mark would of never dated becky 1, but enjoyed him with becky 2 Tom Arnold was horrible on the show. Thank you Roseanne for inflicting that mess on us. Roseanne's boss from the salon was a counter girl at the mall in season 1. the house that Ed and Crystal lived in was the same house David's mom lived when we met her. the front of the house didn't match the set. one ep. DJ's room was above the parents room, then another it was the girl's room where Becky and Mark fought. Roseanne's baby was suppose to be a girl then they changed it to a boy without an explaination. Roseanne's hair did look like a bad wig most of the time.

by Anonymousreply 36501/26/2015

R365 A lot of this was already covered. The entrance to the basement, I believe in the episode where Dan and the kids make a writing space for Roseanne, was shown to be next to the stove. In a later episode, I believe the entrance was in the Laundry Room.

DJ stood for David Jacob.

They basically screwed up with the upstairs bathroom because there is no way DJ's room could have shared a bathroom with Darlene and Becky's room, which it supposedly did.

by Anonymousreply 36601/26/2015

[quote]Dans father / first dan cant even have dinner with him / then he likes him /then his father gets crystal pregnant twice but doesnt appear at all maybe the actor died

[quote]What happened to Chrystal's 2nd pregnancy? Did she have a girl? I can't remember much beyond her getting really mad and yelling at Dan about Ed being a ne'er-do-well. And then the pregnancy was gone--and so was Chrystal for that matter.

No, Ned Beatty who played Dan's father Ed, didn't die.

Crystal had her baby girl on the show. But disappeared sometime after. Gossip was that Natalie West who played Crystal left the show due to conflicts with Roseanne. But Natalie and Roseanne shot down those rumors.

There were other minor characters that disappeared with no explanation like Chuck and Ann-Marie, the black couple that were friends with the Connors. They did appear in the lottery episode.

by Anonymousreply 36701/26/2015

Rosie's father led a double life in addition to being a child abuser.

Yet he only appeared in one episode.

Not an inconsistency but he got more back story than most of the characters on this show.

BTW, the reason he was only on one show was because the actor John Randoph wanted a raise and they wouldn't give him one. This came from Estelle Parsons.

He also played Steven's kindhearted working class father on Family Ties.

Tom Arnold was an sexually abused then Roseanne Arnold decided she was as well. Then she changed her mind and reconciled with her family.

by Anonymousreply 36801/26/2015

[quote]Rosie's father led a double life in addition to being a child abuser. Yet he only appeared in one episode.

According to IMDB, he appeared in two episodes. One in the first season and the second in season two.

by Anonymousreply 36901/26/2015

Rosie's father appeared in the Thanksgiving episode in season 2. That episode also featured Ann Wedgeworth as Dan's mom Audrey.

Audrey was another minor character that was drastically changed later on. When Audrey appeared in season 2, she was a normal woman working in real estate. Then in later seasons, it is mentioned that she is mentally ill and ends up hospitalized. Debbie Reynolds later played the role.

by Anonymousreply 37001/26/2015

Glenn did not die of AIDS. Don't be stupid. He had a MASSIVE alcohol/drug problem on Angel and got fired for it. This leads into the later drama when Charisma was having a drinking problem and Whedon, who is quite the little sociopath, started messing with her by leaving notes in her dressing room that said "Glenn says hi" taped to bottles of liquor. It's true.

by Anonymousreply 37101/26/2015

Blue collar sitcoms...Roseanne, Malcolm in the Middle, and The Middle. The Middle is the best written/acted and will hold up better than the other two. Plus we have eye candy in The Middle lacking in the first two. Roseanne was like a comic book after seasons one/two; Malcolm in the Middle was surreal and bizarre, far out, and already looks dated.

The Middle is a realistic look at the way lower middle class people live; the kids and their friends all ring true; and the school scenes obviously are written by someone who knows their way around a school, it's politics; it's many exasperating employees. NOTE: LOVE Whoopi Goldberg as the guidance counselor Jane Marsh.

Why did they make Roseanne's mother gay? No reason. They were supposed to make D.J. gay and the (lousy) actor did not want to play gay. Darlene became annoying after seasons one and two. Becky was too loud, the second Becky too pretty. The brothers were the best kid actors on the show. Jackie also annoying. Liked Crystal and the stuck up neighbor, who they probably dropped b/c she was a better actress than Roseanne and Jackie. An okay show, but not stellar and not as great as Roseanne and Jackie thought it was. It seemed gays were depicted in a negative light, insulting and buffoon/comic relief. Leon was always a jerk and the victim of Roseanne. The beauty shop/Darlene's all night rock concert/Jackie at the community theatre/Halloween were the best episodes. Tom Arnold--horrible on the show. Roseanne thought she was another Lucy. SO NOT.

by Anonymousreply 37201/26/2015

Hal on MITM was a white-collar office jockey. And Reese was way hotter than Axl.

by Anonymousreply 37301/26/2015

[R372] sounds like such a bittwr queen. The show was great, even with the inconsistencies.

by Anonymousreply 37401/26/2015

R371 if that's true it's incredibly fucked up but hilarious

by Anonymousreply 37501/26/2015

I came from a family where the dad was charming in public and a major psych fest at home. And I remembered the funeral scene with her dad and what she told him- after mine died and I did the same thing in a way. Maybe as she became more successful she started working thru some old issues because she had more confidence? It's a show and like many families very inconsistent about what "real" memories are. False assumptions and real or imaginary memories abound. And when there is a level of distrust created by that- leads to further misunderstandings. I can understand-

Last season-awful- loved Estele Parsons and Shelly Winters characters. David was too cute to be straight.

by Anonymousreply 37601/26/2015

Kevin/David and Mark had sisters that went to live with their father.

Never mentioned again.

Sally Kirkland overplayed her part as the strung out mother but was very memorable. Should have brought her back to make peace with her boys but Roseanne had to be the eternal gruff earth mother who ruled over all so no redemption for the haggard Healy harridan.

David was such a girl but one of the truly decent people on the show.

Early season Roseanne would never have stolen those stoves, nor would Jackie and Dan have gone along with it.

Florence Henderson was way too mature to have a kid as young as DJ.

by Anonymousreply 37701/26/2015

I didn't think it was an inconsistency that Roseanne's father (whom we only saw once) ended up being revealed to be abusive.

My freshman year of college, I had a roommate who invited me to his house for Thanksgiving because my family was going to be in Disney World that whole week and I wasn't able to join them

I found his family absolutely charming. I especially got on well with his father, who seemed to have the same dry, sarcastic sense of humor as I. All in all, I had a great time.

It wasn't until later in the school year, when I got to know my roommate better, that he gradually revealed his abusive upbringing and what a monster his dad had been. I couldn't believe it. His dad just seemed so jovial and a sweetheart. It reminded me of that line from INTO THE WOODS: "Nice is different than good."

by Anonymousreply 37801/26/2015

R42 - It may mean that the daughters ages were swapped to accommodate the storylines that Rosanne developed in her book. Meaning Darlene was the oldest with mark, and Becky the youngest. Mark and Darlene left town abruptly to elope. Then she returned later(as is Becky presented in the series), to resume school. Remember that Dan and Roseanne wanted each daughter to finish school and be a success, rather than be tied down with Mark/David. Both storylines involved at least one attempt to break both couples up at different points to resolve their concerns about each daughters futures. So there was an overlap of each storyline and plot development of unplanned marriages and pregnancies.

As for Jackie's revelation: I'm not sure what your point is about Jackie's homosexuality unbelievable?

Aren't there are lesbians that wait decades to come to terms with homosexuality? A lot of them spent years in denial trying to work out their identities, and in the process sleeping with a lot of guys to conceal this fact. I think it is plausible her chronic relationship problems and failures with men are due to her homosexuality and denial.

Even Rosanne said her preferences were to keep her sisters heterosexuality-in the epilogue. You could see Jackie's and Nancy's "friendship" was one of which both were actually dating. Think about when Nancy revealed her bisexuality, that both Rosanne and Jackie were stunned. Well, in the reversal roles of that scene, it's between just Jackie and Roseanne and takes a less humorous tone. Plus, think about the therapist sessions between the two leads - the therapist mentions that Roseanne's domineering nature caused Jackie some stunted growth and personal actualization. You also have Nancy calling out Roseanne on some of her latent homophobia in later episodes.

One of the major themes of the series, is how sometimes we unintentionally hurt the people we love and how they may hurt us. This is a tough topic to cover, and doing humorously is practically impossible. Keep in mind, you have additional characters involved in stories for a comic effect, that in the real world wouldn't happen. The point of the show, in breaking canon the way Rosanne did was meant to make an effective humerous story, and made the experience cathartic for Roseanne which in her words was the greatest reward than a lottery ticket.

I also think the writing plot point at the end of the season was to accommodate the drastic changes in the series with characters and plot development. I also think it was an attempt to make up for drastic creative control changes that were happening behind the scenes that caused some change in direction and tone.

I thought it was an effective means of communicating why the series was developed the way it was and to make up for the massive amount of disbelief that would accommodate the stories if presented as "fact." Some may argue that is lazy writing, but I think since the stories are meant as comedy, in order to invoke humor you would have to break with canon at times, exaggerate situations and people to make it entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 37901/26/2015

r3 that season never happened, I don't know what you mean(srsly that was a terrible finale). Also, david was originally named Kevin on the first appearance. But most shows are inconsistent. How did al bundy know peg in high school, when she grew up in wanker county Wisconsin? How did homer and marge go to high school together, even though homer is 2 or 4 years older?

by Anonymousreply 38001/26/2015

Homer and Marge's storyline changed because the writers leave and get replaced.

Or that the show is on for so long, that they keep changing the cannon to be more relevant with the times.

The 90's Episode was not the best writing or upheld any of the prior history of the two characters.

by Anonymousreply 38101/26/2015

r381 Oh I know, I was just making a point.

by Anonymousreply 38201/26/2015

Laurie Metcalf was the only good thing about the show. Same for when she was on Norm. She is a brilliant second banana.

by Anonymousreply 38301/27/2015

[quote]How did homer and marge go to high school together, even though homer is 2 or 4 years older?

Wait, what?

High School's normally consist of Grades 9-12, right? Or were Marge and Homer supposed to have been in the same grade?

by Anonymousreply 38401/27/2015

[quote]Also, david was originally named Kevin on the first appearance.

Wasn't this covered in an episode where it's revealed (to illustrate how controlling Darlene was) that David wasn't even his name but rather, something that Darlene called him?

by Anonymousreply 38501/27/2015

It's established that Homer is 36, Marge 34. They went to the same high school, as established in "The Way We Was" (ep. 7F12).

by Anonymousreply 38601/27/2015

Oh, you simple Marys.

The Simpsons exist in what's called a "fluid" timeline - the same as the X-Men and the Avengers - where things that happened in 1947 then happened in '57, '77, etc. It's sort of an inside joke now that Marge and Homer now met well after they originally first had their children.

by Anonymousreply 38701/27/2015

I don't remember now (and never fully understood at the time) what the fuck was Darlene's problem? She was suddenly "depressed" and laid on the couch all day and Roseanne was like, "oh don't bother her." Was it ever mentioned what made her depressed?

by Anonymousreply 38801/27/2015

R388 she was a teenager.

And if that isn't enough, she had Dan and Roseanne for parents.

by Anonymousreply 38901/27/2015

They should have simply had Becky off at school and never replaced the actress. The whole Becky and Mark storyline with the new actress seriously brought down the quality of the show. Mark and the new Becky were very dull actors, and the characters were equally as dull.

Why do writers get so stupid after a few seasons?

by Anonymousreply 39001/27/2015

R389 So was Becky, she didn't lay around on the couch all day sulking

by Anonymousreply 39101/27/2015

Jackie went from one of the very best sitcom characters to one of the worst. She became unrecognizable by season six. I don't think TV actors really get it when their once great characterizations fall into steep decline. It's as if they didn't really know how good they were… and how bad they have become.

by Anonymousreply 39201/27/2015

r392 I wonder why she looked so different. She was pretty for couple of seasons, then looked like a haggard lesbian.

and r387 I made the original simpsons reference. I know there is continuity, I was just making a point in reference to the Roseanne inconsistencies.

by Anonymousreply 39301/27/2015

I remember everyone talking about how groundbreaking Darlene's depression was. I guess a sitcom had never really showcased it before? I was a child at the time and found her to be really frustrating but I guess that was the point of the storyline.

by Anonymousreply 39401/27/2015

Agreed that Roseanne's character used to be hard working and then turned into a lazy bitch, but the show also saw a huge improvement in Roseanne's character in that she was no longer a cheerful fatso. She became real, and it was a rare portrayal of liberal working poor people on TV. Jackie's character was improved as the show went on, too. In the first season or 2 seasons, she was a ditzy loser in miniskirts trying to snag a man. She continued to jump from man to man but she was way more developed as a character, funnier, more wry and less pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 39501/28/2015

R391 yeah, because all teens behave the same way.

by Anonymousreply 39601/28/2015

I'm Cheryl Ladd TV star woman

by Anonymousreply 39701/28/2015

I think Darlene was just going through the typical adolescent depression, R388. She commented in that episode that everything was wrong, including how she looked and her parents. Hormones at that age are crazy.

by Anonymousreply 39801/28/2015

R374, are you too dense to understand an analysis of severhoal shows?

Also, Reese was cute for awhile but got gooney looking.

If Malcolm's Dad was an exec, why did they live such a white trash existence and why did Mom always worry about her loser minimum wage job?

Roseanne was NOT a great show, it does not hold up in reruns. It was an okay show, that is it. After season two, it became very inconsistent in quality and seemed to have a smarmy, smirking attitude. Watching the reruns, I HATE Jackie. They should have featured Crystal, nosy neighbor, and Bonnie the waitress more. Too much shrieking. Roseanne's mom always shrieking. The Lesbian diner co-worker was annoying and useless.

It seemed like they really didn't know what to do with this show or its' characters.

by Anonymousreply 39901/28/2015

[quote]If Malcolm's Dad was an exec, why did they live such a white trash existence and why did Mom always worry about her loser minimum wage job?

Hal wasn't an executive. He was a cube drone, possibly a salesman, which is a white-collar job. In most middle-class households in the US, both parents have to work to maintain presence in a middle-class neighborhood. Hal also came from a very wealthy family. It was Lois, who was from Eastern European immigrant trash, dragged him down. They weren't really white trash, they were just unable, for various reasons (a big part was the expense of keeping Francis in military school), to keep with with their neighbors.

by Anonymousreply 40001/28/2015

Roseanne plucked from obscurity, given her own show acted like an entitled cunt from the start.

Making writers where numbers on their neck.

Smashing a chocolate cake given to the cast when the show went number one like a little brat. George Clooney joining in like a fellow prima donna.

The show had moments of brilliance but the star was a viper.

Not to mention, lying about being sexually abused at 6 months.

Well at least she was honest about turning tricks in the backs of comedy clubs. I hope the first husband got a good settlement.

by Anonymousreply 40101/28/2015

Jackie's devotion to being a cop after only having the idea and working as one for a few short months was a stretch in believability, especially when she was more of a caricature of a cop than a serious one. She quit the force instead of working at a desk job, a job where she would have still been involved in law enforcement but just in a safer way? Why would it have to be all or nothing? At least she had some direction then.

The writers should have had her marry Gary, and then keep her character Jackie-like instead of what she became, i.e., Don Knotts-like.

by Anonymousreply 40201/28/2015

^ Don Knotts-like in the bad way, of course, i.e., Three's Company Don Knotts,

I hate what they did with the Jackie character.

by Anonymousreply 40301/28/2015

I think like most sitcoms with kids, Roseanne writers ran out of ideas and kids got older and less cute. As the years went on, all the characters became cartoons.

by Anonymousreply 40401/29/2015

[quote]Roseanne plucked from obscurity, given her own show acted like an entitled cunt from the start.

Wrong she was well known and she produced massive ratings from day one. That alone should've entitled her to be a cunt.

The problem with the show was Tom Arnold. When she brought him on, the show got really good. When she dumped him, it went downhill.

He may not have much, if any, talent as an actor or comedian but whatever he brought to the show, clearly shows.

by Anonymousreply 40501/29/2015

[373] So true! I don't get the love for "Axl." Both his friends are much cuter. And "Reese" was a cute kid.

by Anonymousreply 40601/29/2015

Did they use Kathy Bowman's house as the set for Roseanne's house after she won the lottery?

by Anonymousreply 40701/29/2015

No, but David's crazy mom's house was the same set as Dan's crazy father's house, just redressed.

The Lunchbox set was built on top of the old backyard set. If you ever see scenes in the Lunchbox's kitchen (they are not very common), it's actually taking place on part of the Conner family kitchen (where the stove was). If the cameras had panned down, you would've seen the Connor's linoleum on the floor. Crew had to fold up the dummy Conner kitchen walls and move the appliances to build the Lunchbox kitchen, which is why it looks so ragtag.

In early seasons, they built two garages, one on the backyard set, which was just used for exterior shots, and one for interiors that was turned toward cameras/audience.

There was one bedroom for the children, too, just redressed with doors to hallway and bathroom switched.

by Anonymousreply 40801/29/2015

I think they used Kathy's kitchen, R408. The glass above the sink was the same.

David's crazy mom's house looked exactly like Dan's dad and Crystal's home.

by Anonymousreply 40901/29/2015

Is it true that this was the old Mary Tyler Moore set?

Who gave Ms. Clooney her big break? From Facts of Life to Roseanne to ER (and he somehow found a manscaper or groomer prior to ER.) Wasn't he on a GG ep?

Never did see what was so great about him. And Lezzer Jackie having him and hot Gary as a boyfriend? Now Gary was one character they should of kept.

Talk about cheap sets--the mall and Rodbell's looked like it was made by ninth grade drama students!

by Anonymousreply 41001/29/2015

[quote]Who gave Ms. Clooney her big break? From Facts of Life to Roseanne to ER (and he somehow found a manscaper or groomer prior to ER.) Wasn't he on a GG ep?

Clooney was in the Chicago hospital sitcom E/R (co-starring Elliot Gould and Mary McDonnell) from 1984-1985. It only lasted one season. That was his first big gig.

His second was THE FACTS OF LIFE, in which he had a recurring role for the 7th and penultimate season.

He then had guest roles in HUNTER, MURDER, SHE WROTE, and THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

Then he was in the first season of ROSEANNE as Roseanne's factory foreman and Jackie's beau.

After guest starring on other shows, in 1991 Clooney tried to headline another series, BABY TALK, a sitcom based on the LOOK WHO'S TALKING movies co-starring Julia Duffy. That lasted 1 1/2 seasons.

He went back to guesting on other shows, mainly SISTERS as Teddy's beau.

He finally hit it big with E.R. exactly ten years after his debut in another same titled show.

by Anonymousreply 41101/29/2015

[quote]Now Gary was one character they should of kept.

Yes, they should HAVE.

by Anonymousreply 41201/29/2015

Nobody's entitled to be a cunt. I don't care if you are the star. Why would you say such a ridiculous thing?

by Anonymousreply 41301/29/2015


Then why do you defend gays? They're all self entitled cunts.

by Anonymousreply 41401/29/2015

The woman that hired Roseanne and then fired her minutes later after realizing she didn't know how to use the computer should have been thrown into a grease fire.

by Anonymousreply 41501/29/2015

R415 she said they needed somebody to start ASAP, thus no time for training.

by Anonymousreply 41601/29/2015

Then she should have asked about knowledge of the Tangerine software first. Roseanne was a good candidate and could have learned the (probably unsophisticated) software quickly. Why hire her with such assumptions?

by Anonymousreply 41701/29/2015

^ that is, why hire her assuming she knew something rather than asking her first?

by Anonymousreply 41801/29/2015

Becky seemed just as much a tomboy as Darlene, minus the love of basketball. They kept trying to push the wholesome-ish good student/feminine blonde character, but Becky always seemed anything but.

by Anonymousreply 41901/29/2015

[quote]Becky always seemed anything but.

Becky was a whore like her Aunt Jackie!

by Anonymousreply 42001/30/2015

[quote]Then she should have asked about knowledge of the Tangerine software first.

No, the "tangerine" is a play on Peachtree accounting software. You can't simply learn that. It's would require a bookkeeper at least. It's not like QuickBooks is today, where you can learn basics in a week.

by Anonymousreply 42101/30/2015

[quote] Wrong she was well known and she produced massive ratings from day one. That alone should've entitled her to be a cunt.

She was well known in the comedy scene prior to the show. The creators of Married with Children actually based the character of Peggy Bundy off of Roseanne and the character of Al was based off of Sam Kinison. Barr and Kinison were offered the roles of Peggy and Al and both turned down the roles. Kinison guest starred on MWC later on. Roseanne and MWC are still some of my favorite sitcoms from the late 80s and early 90s.

by Anonymousreply 42201/30/2015

r422 Married with children is one of my favorite shows. The early seasons were great, after they added seven they pissed me off. However, if it had that asshole kinnison and Roseanne it would have been horrendous.

by Anonymousreply 42301/30/2015

I'm glad Roseanne passed on the Married with Children offer. Her show was SO much better. No offense, but I hated Married with Children.

by Anonymousreply 42401/30/2015

Yes, Seven was the cousin Oliver of his generation!

by Anonymousreply 42501/30/2015

Cousin Oliver actually boosted the ratings of "The Brady Bunch."

by Anonymousreply 42601/31/2015

Everyone see this episode?

by Anonymousreply 42701/31/2015

I have the show on dvd there is no rape episode. Not for roseanne character or jackie character. There is domestic abuse where fisher beats Jackie . Roseanne and dan had been trying to have a kid for a while the the actress got pregers so they wrote it in for both laurie metcalf and roseanne. In season two roseanne cuts her hair in like the first episode and in the episode where she gets the job where she needs to know how to use a pc it is long again. I am assuming they were either aired out of order or placed on the dvd put of order. Same will similar incidents with beckys haircut

by Anonymousreply 42806/06/2015

Remember when DJ was masturbating to Roseanne's glamour magazine so they took the door off his room to make him stop?

by Anonymousreply 42910/22/2015

Darlene authored a comic book that was filled with such darkness and filth that the school principal and Dan couldn't believe that anyone other than a deranged psychotic could have created it, yet there's no concern afterwards and nothing is ever said to Darlene about it? And David (the comic book's illustrator) is shown in successive episodes happily drawing more comics, filled with "women with great bodies" according to next-door-neighbor Molly. Then, Darlene is accepted at a prestigious writing school before she's even finished with high school and, again, the darkness of the content of her writing is never addressed. Instead, Darlene is suddenly a talented writer, and no one is concerned about David's drawings. Talk about Inconsistencies.

by Anonymousreply 43001/28/2016

It's fake, so...

by Anonymousreply 43101/28/2016

Yes, it's fake, but writers should avoid blatant inconsistencies, even when writing fiction.

by Anonymousreply 43201/28/2016

Roseanne went from being a hard-working wife and mom with a good sense of humor to a lazy, dishonest (kind of) lowlife with a victim mentality, and Dan went from being a hard-working husband and father with a good sense of humor to a mean-spirited guy with no life outside of his (now) shrewish wife. And don't get me started on what they did to the Jackie character. What a shame. They should have ended this series at the end of season 4. It went WAY downhill beginning with season 5. It's hard to tell if the actors ever realized how bad the show became.

by Anonymousreply 43301/28/2016
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