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Bette Midler and Karen Carpenter

Bette used to have a shtick in the early days of her act when she would make fun of Karen Carpenter all the time. You can even see her play into it when she wins and Emmy in the early 70s and keeps referring to Karen as "Miss Karen." I don't think Karen really minded that much (she would only have been upset if Bette had called her fat), but why was Bette so after Karen? And has she spoken about her after KC's death in the 80s? I know KC was really white bread, but she had an even better voice than Bette has ever had.

by Anonymousreply 27810/12/2015

i love both of them. the teasing midler did while karen was alive was simply because of the sugary pop quality of the carpenter's music in general....anyone who was 'cool' and irreverent made fun of their popularity. yes, karen's voice was better. but midler has the most amazing presence on stage (and i saw them both live, if you can believe it). her concert was a religious experience for me. (i was irked by her gay marriage comments faux pas, but i think she's more than made up for it.)

by Anonymousreply 104/09/2010

Karen's voice was better?

How do you figure that?

by Anonymousreply 204/09/2010

i adore bette midler, and she has a better voice than most people realize.

but there's something about karen carpenter's voice that is so pure and so unique that, yes, i think she had the better voice.

or were you being facetious?

by Anonymousreply 304/09/2010

Oh, I should explain: it's because I was born with ears, r2.

by Anonymousreply 404/09/2010

Bette went on record after Karen's death saying she was deeply sorry about all the jokes at Karen's expense and wishes she never did them. At the time Bette was making all those nasty remarks in her act, Karen's medical problems were not known to the public and Bette had no idea.

by Anonymousreply 504/09/2010

Bette Midler can barely sing - but she knows how to put over a song. Her voice was never that much but now - she really can't sustain notes and her pitch is problematic. She is very smart and knows how to navigate and disguise her limitations.

by Anonymousreply 604/09/2010

Karen had a spectacular, unique voice and was an incredible musician. The Carpenters' sound was a perfect fit for a troubled era, and they sold millions of records.

As for Bette? None of the above.

by Anonymousreply 704/09/2010

Would A. Lesbian please drop the itsy-bitsy looky-me refusal to use capital letters the way literate people know they should? Such as affectation always grates, and it's hard to read your posts when the gorge is rising.

Thanks, Darling.

by Anonymousreply 804/09/2010

R2, are you seriously asking that question?

Have you ever heard Karen Carpenter sing? She had one of the greatest voices of any female recording artist in pop music, ever. Bette Midler, while a great performer with a powerful voice, doesn't even compare.

by Anonymousreply 1004/09/2010

Karen Carpenter had a gorgeous voice. But when I heard Bette Midler's version of Superstar/Groupie for the first time recently, it instantly became my favourite version. Midler's interpretation is brilliant and reminds how she had real acting talent.

Karen Carpenter was always hampered by her brother's sugary arrangements, I feel.

by Anonymousreply 1104/09/2010

Bette's Superstar.

by Anonymousreply 1204/09/2010

When Karen gave Bette her Grammy for best new artist back in - what, '74? - there was no real animosity in evidence, just showbiz ribbing. Here's the moment. Oh, and just listen to the rest of the competition. Except for Barry White, they ALL shoulda been hit over the head with it.

by Anonymousreply 1304/09/2010

Jesus, at this point I wouldn't put it past Midler to do a Karen Carpenter tribute album.

It's kind of telling that for all Midler's irreverent posturing at the beginning of her career, she ended up being just as bland and adult-contempo as the Carpenters ever were.

And in retrospect, at least the Carpenters felt somehow strangely era appropriate. With every self-indulgent nostalgia album Midler puts out, it's clear just how much distaste she has for pretty much everything that postdates her.

by Anonymousreply 1404/09/2010

Bette was always retro. Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy was her big hit. The Rosemary Clooney album was fun - but the Peggy Lee material was just beyond her and wasted.

by Anonymousreply 1504/09/2010

I love Bette Midler - best oscar host EVER! - but she can't stay on pitch. At the very least, a singer should stay on pitch. It's like a drummer who can't keep time - what's the point? She is very funny but a terrible singer.

by Anonymousreply 1604/09/2010

"(i was irked by her gay marriage comments faux pas, but i think she's more than made up for it.)" In what way? I think it's unforgivable and I used to adore Bette.

by Anonymousreply 1704/09/2010

"unforgivable"? GIMME AN "M"! etc.

by Anonymousreply 1904/09/2010

Thanks for posting the link, R13. I saw that show live and remembered their interaction being acrimonious, but watching it now it just seems fun -- the Carpenters applauded Bette, Bette kissed Karen -- it doesn't seem nasty at all.

by Anonymousreply 2004/09/2010

The irony is that Bette ended up recording some pretty damn schmaltzy dreck herself.

At least the Carpenters are still listenable.

by Anonymousreply 2104/09/2010

[quote]but why was Bette so after Karen?

Isn't it pretty obvious?

Karen was infinitely more talented, thinner, far more attractive and definitely garnered more respect.

I'd much rather "Miss" Karen still be with us today than that sad old twatface Midler.

Karen, IMHO, is the best singer of all time. I know a lot of people will say Aretha or Streisand, but there was something incredibly beautiful about the subdued way Karen sang. You could hear the pain in her voice and it was powerful.

Go ahead with the "Oh Mary!"s but I do love me some Karen Carpenter.

by Anonymousreply 2204/09/2010

"Superstar" is about a lonely young girl pining for her idol. Midler's version is just irritating and icky. Who are her 'fans' now, middle-aged women who want to feel "naughty"?

by Anonymousreply 2304/09/2010

Heaven is listening to Karen's cover of "Ticket To Ride."

by Anonymousreply 2404/09/2010

love that one too, r24, but my fave is her cover of desperado.

embarrassing but true.

by Anonymousreply 2504/09/2010

A year later she gave out the award for album of the year. This one's interesting because of the sheer level of TALENT in the nominees.

by Anonymousreply 2604/09/2010

R22 Did you really have to mention weight in a Karen Carpenter thread?

by Anonymousreply 2704/09/2010

The nominees for Best New Artist are insane to see alongside each other:

Marie Osmond, Barry White, Bette Midler, Maureen McGovern, and somebody named Eumir Deodata (see link - interesting).

by Anonymousreply 2804/09/2010

Eumir Deodato is AWESOME. Have been a fan for years.

by Anonymousreply 2904/09/2010

This is like when some tired old queen tries to say Bette is better than Streisand (in any way).

Not in this lifetime, love. Never was, isn't, and never ever will be.

by Anonymousreply 3004/09/2010

I've always wanted to start a thread about what it would have been like if Midler had done Funny Girl instead of Streisand.

But ultimately, I'm a peace-loving man.

by Anonymousreply 3104/09/2010


How romantic. You know the original title is "Groupie". Lovely as Karen's voice was, she didn't plumb the depths of the song. It's about a girl who believes her idol when he tells her love her. Midler's performance draws out the complexity of the situation. It's not a simple love song.

by Anonymousreply 3204/09/2010

R31, it wouldn't have been "like" anything because it wouldn't have BEEN. You do realize Babs created the role onstage, right? And please don't harp on Merman/Russell in GYPSY, Andrews/Hepburn in MY FAIR LADY or Martin/Andrews for SOUND OF MUSIC. People STILL, to this day, are talking about Babs onstage in FUNNY GIRL. If she didn't do the film, the film would not have been made. Period.

And, please, Bette bleating "My Man"? Or, better yet, the song in the stage version - "The Music That Makes Me Dance"?? Hahahahahahahaha. THAT's a laugh!


by Anonymousreply 3304/09/2010


That's not true. Shirley MacLaine was talked about for Funny Girl.

by Anonymousreply 3404/09/2010

Not to mention, r32, in one special she sang the song in a straitjacket.

by Anonymousreply 3504/09/2010

R34, lots of things are "talked about" or discussed in Hollywood. It's called bullshit.

Again, without Babs it wouldn't have happened. She WAS Fanny Brice.

by Anonymousreply 3604/09/2010

Yeah, Karen Carpenter would have been awesome in "The Rose."

by Anonymousreply 3704/09/2010

The late Karen Carpenter had a splendid alto voice and also was a serious percussionist who studied the works of Buddy Rich.

by Anonymousreply 3804/09/2010


Have you seen footage of Fanny Brice? Barbara Streisand was Barbara Streisand as Fanny Brice.

If you think Funny Girl wouldn't have been made without Streisand, look at My Fair Lady. Julie Andrews had done the show in New York and London, recorded cast albums for both. And LIKE Streisand, she wasn't a movie star before her Oscar-winning turn.

by Anonymousreply 3904/09/2010

R39, read my other posts in this thread (I am R33). Troll-dar is your friend, doll.

And you are saying SHIRLEY FUCKING MACCLAINE was closer in looks, styling and mannerisms - let alone VOICE and comedy technique - to to the real Fanny Brice? More than Babs was? I think not.

Anne Bancroft was originally supposed to do FUNNY GIRL on Broadway but backed out at the last moment so Arthur Laurents suggested to Jule Styne he have a look at this new girl he cast in his musical I CAN GET IT FOR YOU WHOLESALE. The rest is history.

by Anonymousreply 4004/09/2010

Fanny Brice was a horrible singer.

by Anonymousreply 4104/09/2010

Back in their day, the Carpenters were considered jokes by many people, not just Bette Midler. Their music was syrupy, treacly MOR junk. They were Republicans, boring, conservative, dull, squeaky-clean. And it was the seventies, the era of disco and glam/glitter rock; of COURSE they were going to be made fun of.

In reality the squeaky-clean Carpenters were a drug addict and an anorexic. And not particularly nice or intelligent, either. They both had utter distain for artists like David Bowie and Alice Cooper and Mott the Hoople. They thought they were "better."

There seem to be a lot of Karen fangurls on Datalounge, proclaiming her voice to be gorgeous, stunning, etc. Actually her voice was inexpressive, lackluster and dull. But it was a distinctive voice; you always knew when Karen Carpenter was singing a song. She always sounded like she'd taken a few Quaaludes before each recording session.

by Anonymousreply 4204/09/2010


I said Shirley MacLaine was talked about, I never said she was right for the role.

I'm clearly talking to a rabid fan.

by Anonymousreply 4304/09/2010

R40, don't get me wrong, I love Streisand in Funny Girl as much as the next gay guy, she is undeniably glorious in the part.

I do think, however, that in terms of looks, talent and style, Bette Midler bares a greater resemblance to Fanny Brice than Barbra Streisand, and I would have been interested to see what Midler would have done with the part. She has a much different take on acting, comedy, and putting over a song than Streisand does, and I think Midler's comparable lack of vanity as a performer (and unarguably plainer looks) could have actually served the part well.

I totally would concede that score as written would probably have been too much for Midler even back then ( even at her best, she could never hope to compete with Streisand in terms of pure vocal ability), but I was surprised that you "My Man" as the song you thought Midler would have stumbled on. Midler's always been a deft hand at torch songs and I think it's the one song in the score that Midler's more ragged sound might have actually improved .

by Anonymousreply 4404/09/2010


Well they did retitle their version of "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime" to "Partner, Can You..."

by Anonymousreply 4604/09/2010

[italic]They both had utter distain for artists like David Bowie and Alice Cooper and Mott the Hoople. They thought they were "better." [/italic]

With the exception of Bowie, they were right.

by Anonymousreply 4704/09/2010

Yes, R45. Once when Lola Falana was appearing on the Mike Douglas show at the same time, Karen snuck into her dressing room and hung up a noose for her to find. Also, Richard once burned a cross on Flip Wilson's front lawn.

by Anonymousreply 4804/09/2010

[quote]best oscar host EVER!

She was? When was that?

by Anonymousreply 4904/09/2010

Lots of great points, R44. It would be interesting, but I'm glad we have the Babs/FG and not the Bette/FG at the end of the day.

I actually had a chuckle when trying to imagine Bette "singing" or performing "The Music That Makes Me Dance" - a much rangier and more difficult number than "My Man", but similar in style since it was written to evoke that Brice standard, which, of course, replaced it in the film version of the show - which Babs did 8 times a week in FG on stage. It's a glorious song, and the only person I've seen come close to doing it as well as Babs was Carolee Carmello at the Actor's Fund FG concert a few years ago.

by Anonymousreply 5004/09/2010

I must be the only person on the planet who hates Karen Carpenter's voice.

by Anonymousreply 5104/09/2010

"(i was irked by her gay marriage comments faux pas, but i think she's more than made up for it.)"

In what way? I think it's unforgivable and I used to adore Bette.

You have to remember, Bette found her gay audience when being gay was REALLY bad. She was on the edge, and parlayed that into a career. It is well documented that Bette is not only gay friendly, but she is also beholden to us.

When asked about gay marriage, Bette asked the retorical question of why gay men would want to go through the visussitudes and machinations that entail heterosexual marriage. She was trying to protect us in her less than intellectual way, without realizing that the main reason we want gay marriage is to level the playing field with the breeders.

And please forgive my spelling errors.

by Anonymousreply 5204/09/2010

[quote]she had an even better voice than Bette has ever had.

KC - Miss Dreary Voice.

Bette never had a great voice but she could sell a song. Dreary weary Karen just bored everyone to death.

by Anonymousreply 5304/09/2010

Game. Set. Match!

by Anonymousreply 5404/09/2010


by Anonymousreply 5504/09/2010


by Anonymousreply 5604/09/2010

[quote]Dreary weary Karen just bored everyone to death.

"Everyone"? Speak for yourself.

She was a huge star, and millions of people loved her, including many of this thread. If you don't like her, you don't like her; but it's simply not true to say she "bored [italic]everyone[/italic] to death."

by Anonymousreply 5704/09/2010

[quote]I must be the only person on the planet who hates Karen Carpenter's voice.


by Anonymousreply 5804/09/2010

For those who find Karen "dreary," you'd hate this (done when she was, I think, 17) . . .

by Anonymousreply 5904/09/2010

R5, Bette does that shit. She opens her fat trap and spouts off. Then, only after she gets called on the carpet, she tries to beg forgiveness and apologize.

Trust us, she does this.

by Anonymousreply 6004/10/2010

Karen's lesbianism after Richard's years of incest abuse was considered the likely cause of her anorexia. It wasn't well known that at the time of her death her "assistant" was a black woman named Thelia who actually was her protector and girlfriend and cook. Richard controlled the press even when she died, and the truth of her real struggle never came out.

by Anonymousreply 6104/10/2010

Please, more on Thelia.

by Anonymousreply 6304/10/2010

I can't believe there is anyone who thinks Bette Midler, as entertaining as she can be, has a better voice than Karen Carpenter had. I don't even think this is open for debate, it is that open and shut.

by Anonymousreply 6404/10/2010

[quote]That's not true. Shirley MacLaine was talked about for Funny Girl.

Me too! ME TOO!!

by Anonymousreply 6504/10/2010

Thanks for the information, r48.

by Anonymousreply 6604/10/2010

I have never heard anyone anywhere claim Karen had a great voice.

She sang flat. Had a small range. No real power behind the voice. Did not have much sense of phrasing. Within her limitations she did really well, and I love a lot of her recordings.

You reasonably could claim she had better taste in material or a better understanding of her instrument than Midler. But to claim she had a better voice is just silly.

by Anonymousreply 6704/10/2010

Karen Carpenter always pinged for me. Always.

Back in those days, women simply didn't play the drums -- that was a boy's instrument. In fact, the only woman I ever knew who played the drums back then was my first LTR, and she's an FTM now.

by Anonymousreply 6804/10/2010

"I must be the only person on the planet who hates Karen Carpenter's voice."

No, you're not. A lot of people hated The Carpenters. But since Karen's death, people are much nicer towards them, out of pity for Karen, I guess.

Her fans can't believe anyone could hate her voice, but what do you expect, they're silly Karen Carpenter worshipping fangurls.

by Anonymousreply 6904/10/2010

"Karen's lesbianism after Richard's years of incest abuse"

Wait, wait, wait. Where you goin'?!?!

Get back here. WHAT??

by Anonymousreply 7004/10/2010

"Karen's lesbianism after Richard's years of incest abuse"

That sounds like something out of the Weekly World News.

I've heard a lot about the Carpenters. Their family was dysfunctional. But R61's tale sounds like the result of a very overactive, unstable imagination. It sounds like the ravings of a nutjob.

"It wasn't well known that at the time of her death her "assistant" was a black woman named Thelia who actually was her protector and girlfriend and cook."

I suppose "girlfriend" is another way of saying that "Thelia" was Karen's lesbian lover. And she was her COOK? What the fuck did Karen Carpenter need a cook for? She didn't EAT!

I guess you can say anything about a famous person after they're dead no matter how outlandishly fake it sounds. And no doubt somebody out there will believe it.

by Anonymousreply 7204/11/2010


Karen Carpenter had an eating disorder - why would she have a cook?! Would you be surprised that she had a fridge as well?

by Anonymousreply 7304/11/2010

looking at the youtube clip, both Richard and Karen chuckled when they read off Bette Midler's name so I don't think they took her seriously and they seemed like they had a sense of humor. (By the way, I read somewhere when Bette won Best New Artist, Barry White was PISSED!)

by Anonymousreply 7404/11/2010

There's a bio of Karen called "Little Girl Blue" that comes out in July. Scores of people who were close to Karen were interviews, and Richard had no participation, so it should be interesting.

by Anonymousreply 7504/11/2010

Someone upthread said Karen's voice had no range. Youtube "Hurting Each Other" and tell me that again. And all those massed choir vocals on songs like "Close To You", "Rainy Days And Mondays" and "Superstar" are just Richard and Karen. That's not an easy feet. And for their syrupy, sunshiney image, their most popular songs were pretty sad. "Rainy Days" is one of the only songs I know that is sad and melancholy yet dynamic and exciting all at once. Ok I'll sit here so the Karen-hater trolls come after me.......

by Anonymousreply 7604/11/2010

The fact was that in the 1970s, Karen Carpenter voice and The Carpenters music were considered commercial pop schlock -- never, not ever taken seriously.

Today it's all "oh, Karen had such a beautiful voice," and she's compared to Streisand when Streisand was good. She's even associated with someone with a lesser voice but witty and original stage act, Midler. This IS amusing.

If Karen had lived, none of this would have happened. Well, maybe if Karen came out of the closet. I don't know if r61 has the story, but Karen lesbianism has been around for decades.

by Anonymousreply 7704/11/2010

"Karen Carpenter's cook" is not something I'd put on my resume. That's a bit like saying you're Shane MacGowan's dentist.

by Anonymousreply 7804/11/2010

I certainly wouldn't hire her as a cook!

Karen Carpenter also did that annoying S with upper teeth in lower lip, the kind of S people with buck teeth use, like Matt Lauer, or 13 boys who want to sound "tough." She should have conquered this habit when singing, it was really awful.

by Anonymousreply 7904/11/2010

"13 boys" That's supposed to be 13 year old boys.

by Anonymousreply 8004/11/2010

How do you make an S sound with your teeth in your lips, r79?

by Anonymousreply 8104/11/2010

Chose some words with S in them. Like:

"I say, mister seal stayer"

When you the S in each word, say by pushing air thru your teeth as they're resting in your lower lip.

by Anonymousreply 8204/11/2010

"Karen had a spectacular, unique voice and was an incredible musician. The Carpenters' sound was a perfect fit for a troubled era, and they sold millions of records.

As for Bette? None of the above. by: this thread is closed."

Karen Carpenter was a unique talent. She did not have to work at that voice. In that case she was lucky to have her brother as an arranger.

by Anonymousreply 8306/20/2010

Who are her 'fans' now, middle-aged women who want to feel "naughty"?

*********Midler seems to have forgotten her bawdy days. If you watched her segment on Kathy's D-List last season you'd have seen how far she's come from her fun loving, Divine Mz. M/Continental Baths days. She may as well be a-lady-in-waiting to Camilla. BORING SELF RIGHTEOUS JEWESS.

by Anonymousreply 8406/20/2010

John Lennon himself said he loved the Carpenters' cover of "Ticket To Ride."

by Anonymousreply 8506/20/2010

According to "Little Girl Blue: The Life of Karen Carpenter"...

The Carpenters changed "I can hardly wait to sleep with you again" in Superstar to "be with you again" which was more radio friendly.

Also... [quote]It seemed as though Better Midler might have been miffed by the Carpenters' success with "Superstar," the song she introduced to the duo [she sang it on The Tonight Show and Richard Carpenter liked it], as she began to poke fun at the duo....Karen took it all in stride. Besides, as she pointed out, the gold record for "Superstar" was on the Carpenters' wall, not Midlers.

Karen and Bette got together backstage after the C's gave Bette the grammy for best new artist. And they got along well. "Bette said, 'I don't know what I'm gonna do now that we're friends'"

But she did poke fun at them again at the next Grammy Awards show.

by Anonymousreply 8606/22/2010

The first time I heard Karen Carpenter's voice (I was twelve), I was drawn to it like a firefly is to light. Who is this singing, and why does it make me feel so warm inside? I loved music, and listened to it as much as possible, but I was not ready for this. Her voice, a clear, perfectly tuned instument washed over me like smoke and honey. To this day I have not heard her equal. Of course I would love to experience that feeling again, but I know there will never be another Karen. I knida had a crush on her too, especially after seeing those pretty brown eyes, and her honest smile.............Okay, I'm done........

by Anonymousreply 8710/21/2011

"Little Girl Blue" is an excellent, heartbreaking read. Karen supposedly had a wicked sense of humor, and did get along with Midler.

She always pinged to me, as well, and while the author skirts the issue, it seemed to me that perhaps the anorexia might have had to do with her discomfort with her sexuality.

The Carpenters' mother was a pretty big factor in the family's dysfunction: she (and her husband) favored Richard, deeming him a genius, and moving the family to California so he could study music. Karen was the tagalong little sister, and even after she'd moved front & center, her mother didn't give her much credit.

I think both Midler and Karen Carpenter belong firmly in the pantheon of American pop music/entertainment.

by Anonymousreply 8810/21/2011

My heart is filled with luff for [R4] and [R10]. My kinda bitches!

by Anonymousreply 8910/21/2011

"Karen had a spectacular, unique voice and was an incredible musician. The Carpenters' sound was a perfect fit for a troubled era, and they sold millions of records.

As for Bette? None of the above. by: this thread is closed."

Oh shut UP, you idiot! The Carpenter's "sound was a perfect fit for a troubled era?" Their sound was disposable MOR pap. Of course a lot of people LIKE disposable MOR pap, so that is why they sold "millions of records."

Karen Carpenter was not an "incredible musician." Richard Carpenter was the musician in the duo, not her. And all this crap about her God, her voice was MEDIOCRE. It was a distinctive voice; you always knew when it was Karen Carpenter singing a song. But she had no range, no passion; she always sang as if she were deeply depressed or bombed on quaaludes.

Karen Carpenter is one of the most overrated singers ever.

Bette Midler has a Broadway voice, which serves her well in some songs, but not in others. As far as Karen Carpenter being a better singer than her...well, I don't think either one are particularly great singers.

by Anonymousreply 9010/21/2011

[R90] I'm sorry you were born without ears. Saying Karen Carpenter had a mediocre ears is like saying......Michelangelo was a paint by numbers kinda guy.

And the Carpenters music, like ABBA, had a sugary surface that only partly hid a layer of melancholy and strife underneath. No, it wasn't the fucking Clash, but that was the genius of both the Carpenters and ABBA (and something they shared with Midler): the ability to write catchy tunes about emotional upheaval.

[quote] Karen Carpenter is one of the most overrated singers ever.

No, no and no. Click, dial tone, goodbye.

by Anonymousreply 9110/21/2011

who are these deranged queens who think Midler is consistently pitchy? link please! the one time I can think of is in the studio recording of Delta Dawn, where the producers spliced in a take that had begun with no accompaniment. It's an awkward cut in the middle of a sustained note, more the producer's fault for not catching it.

She didn't forget where she came from, she aged. She's 65 or you really want her to get her tits out and hump the stage ala Divine Madness? From a Distance and Wind Beneath my Wings are shlock..HUGELY POPULAR schlock. When your career pumps into high gear as hers did then, you need to play to the masses. She got that and good for her.

by Anonymousreply 9310/21/2011

No one will remember Bette Midler - she has already been totally forgotten by the upcoming generation.

To criticize The Carpenters and then applaud Milder is ridiculous. Bette Midler is the definition of elevator muzak schlock. "Wind Beneath My Wings" is one of the most nausea inducing songs ever.

by Anonymousreply 9410/21/2011

[quote]She sang flat. Had a small range. No real power behind the voice. Did not have much sense of phrasing. Within her limitations she did really well, and I love a lot of her recordings.

Spot on. For a microphone singer she displayed more control than most, so you can say she was accomplished on a purely technical level, but still. She seemed to have too speeds--vaguely sunny, and morbidly depressed--and nothing she sang took her out of a fairly narrow range. Sometimes it sounded as if she was barely opening her mouth.

Loved some of her recordings, and while her end was tragic I don't think it's cause to over-value her actual talent.

by Anonymousreply 9510/21/2011

[R93] The whole of "Wind Beneath My Wings" is a pitchfest. When she jumps octaves at the end it makes me wince.

by Anonymousreply 9610/21/2011

R44, enjoyed your comments, and I agree that Midler is closer to Fanny Brice - in looks, in schlumpiness, in timing, etc. - than Streisand ever was, and it would've been interesting to see Midler do [italic]Funny Girl[/italic] (although her TV Rose Hovick suggests she can't put a show tune across and create a character at the same time).

Nonetheless: I'm not especially a Streisand fan, but her "My Man" at the end of FG is one of the dozen or so most thrilling perfrormances ever put on film, up there with Garland's "Man That Got Away." Nobody, nobody could have worked that song in the same way Streisand did - her yearning, her anger, her defiance, her unique phrasing, the roughness she allows into her voice all the while maintaining a poignant lyricism, the way she cocks her head, the way she uses her hands - does anyone but Streisand have hands that seem all on their own to have studied with Lee Strasberg?

And I say this as someone who finds FG endless and bloated and indulgent and nearly unwatchable. Ugh, Omar Sharif. It's an exhausting film, and its paradox is that you're too worn out by the end to be able to enjoy Streisand's moment of real genius, "My Man."

Streisand's film career is made for Youtube.

by Anonymousreply 9710/21/2011

Streisand was and is a dumpy cow.

by Anonymousreply 9810/21/2011

Eldergays remember when the battle was between Midler and Streisand, and one could quickly scope out a fellow gay by determining which camp he belonged to.

Karen was around back then, but wasn't on any type of social radar like Midler and Streisand

by Anonymousreply 9910/21/2011

R98, sit down harder on your vintage 1927 Ramon Novarro art deco phallus as you slowly ease yourself from your walker down onto your disco era platform bed and tacky rubber sheets.

by Anonymousreply 10010/21/2011

[quote]Eldergays remember when the battle was between Midler and Streisand, and one could quickly scope out a fellow gay by determining which camp he belonged to.

I know we've suffered as a people, but had no idea things were so bad.

by Anonymousreply 10110/21/2011

What happened with Barry Manilow?

by Anonymousreply 10210/21/2011

I completely support a. lesbian's right to avoid capital letters. However, I'd like to know what Bette Midler did to make up for her gay marriage remarks. I personally haven't been swayed. Plus I saw her on Kathy Griffith acting so dainty and easily offended and I wanted someone to call her on her bullshit. Does she recall her earlier shows? I don't like when stars seem to want to change their own history.

by Anonymousreply 10310/21/2011

I've always thought Karen Carpenter to be a lesbian; more to the point a cute dyke - she pings big time. She even fits the bill for a dyke e.g., weight issues, loneliness, poor self-image, overbearing mother, tomboy who likes playing drums.

Am I the only one who thinks this?


by Anonymousreply 10410/21/2011

It IS interesting to think about what the view of Karen would be now had she lived. Would she be the same as say, Helen Reddy, Toni Tennille? Anyone know where they are today?

All the accolades and tributes came after she died - she would probably still be considered a joke on many levels and more of a guilty pleasure for most.

I LOVE Karen's voice but I really don't think it is due to a crazy talent she possessed. She had a clear and very concise sound that is very very pleasing. Perfect pop voice. But I'm sure she would have been the first to point out her limited range, etc. I do think she had very good pitch however. The background vocals she and Richard did are so mocked because they are so perfect.

by Anonymousreply 10510/21/2011

Listen to the late Karen Carpenter sing "Ave Maria" in the You Tube video I am linking to.

She uses her full vocal range in it and sing the song in Latin.

Bette Midler cannot do that.

by Anonymousreply 10610/21/2011

Listen to the You Tube video I am linking to. It is of the Carpenters doing "Ave Maria." The late Karen Carpenter uses her full vocal range in this version of the song and sings the whole thing in Latin. Bette Midler could not touch her back in the day, nor now!

The late Karen Carpenter was a very fine percussionist who studied the works of Buddy Rich. Buddy Rich is to the drums what Hendrix was to the guitar. What instrument does Bette Midler play again?

Ultimately, they are two very different ladies. But, talent wise, Karen Carpenter pawned Bette like the dickens but at least had a sense of humor about things and all.

by Anonymousreply 10710/21/2011

R106 as well as R107 here...

I am very sorry everyone. I made the one post and it did not go through at all (javascript error) and so then I made another one. Somehow something got crossed and so now I have double posted?!

This was not intentional and I am very sorry.

by Anonymousreply 10810/21/2011

r108 - you are evil and must be destroyed.

by Anonymousreply 10910/21/2011

"I'm sorry you were born without ears. Saying Karen Carpenter had a mediocre ears is like saying......Michelangelo was a paint by numbers kinda guy."

You're comparing the monotone-voiced Karen Carpenter to Michelangelo?! You are one crazy fangurl!

"No, no and no. Click, dial tone, goodbye."

Yes, yes, and yes. Fuck off and die.

by Anonymousreply 11010/21/2011

"who are these deranged queens who think Midler is consistently pitchy?"

Midler's voice could be reedy and off key in the seventies. And yes, many music critics pointed that out at the time (just look at reviews of her second album and SONGS FROM THE NEW DEPRESSION) She was deemed a fantastic live act whose studio work failed to match what she brought to the stage. Her voice got better as she aged.

by Anonymousreply 11110/21/2011

A little known fact about Karen was her coke habit.

by Anonymousreply 11210/21/2011

[quote]Have you ever heard Karen Carpenter sing? She had one of the greatest voices of any female recording artist in pop music, ever.

Karen Carpetner didn't sing. She whined.

by Anonymousreply 11310/21/2011

it's possible to like both girls

by Anonymousreply 11410/21/2011

Karen at the end. Yowzers!

by Anonymousreply 11510/21/2011

I once proposed to a room of gay men that Bette Midler would've made a far more convincing "young man" in "Yentl".

I am lucky to have gotten out of that room with my life.

by Anonymousreply 11610/21/2011

Eydie Gorme and Carol Burnett were also considered for FG before it went to Streisand. Can anyone imagine Carol Burnett belting out "People"?

by Anonymousreply 11710/21/2011

Bette's "Superstar" sounds like a train wreck. And I'm a fan.

by Anonymousreply 11810/21/2011

[quote]It IS interesting to think about what the view of Karen would be now had she lived. Would she be the same as say, Helen Reddy, Toni Tennille? Anyone know where they are today? All the accolades and tributes came after she died - she would probably still be considered a joke on many levels and more of a guilty pleasure for most.

When they were still recording, did Helen Reddy and Toni Tennille ever come close to Karen Carpenter in terms of popularity? The Carpenters enjoyed plenty of "accolades and tributes" when Karen was still alive, they were hugely popular.

by Anonymousreply 11910/21/2011

Yeah, I remember, the day after she died, talking with people at work about Karen's death. The people I worked with were of a big range of ages and backgrounds. But one thing they agreed on was that she was definitely one of the best singers at that time.

by Anonymousreply 12010/21/2011

I signed a petition to keep the Karen Carpenter death house from being razed. The horrible landlady had a tacky yard sale of Karen's possessions with wildly overpriced items such as Karen's LPs. Even her most ardent fans didn't touch the stuff.

by Anonymousreply 12110/21/2011

If Karen had not died she would have had Linda Ronstadt's late career, stage and exploring new genres in music. If you listen to her solo album,recorded in 1980, she was poised for it. I believe that the boycott of this solo album by A&M Records West, lead to Karen's ultimate health decline and death. A&M on the East Coast wanted to release it. I think it is brilliant and she never sounded better. You could release some of the songs today and they would be hits. My 2 cents.

by Anonymousreply 12210/21/2011

[R110] Eat shit, you tonedeaf whore.

by Anonymousreply 12310/21/2011

Toni Tennille and Helen Reddy were not in Karen Carpenter's league. Karen was a superstar and one of the most famous female singers of the 1970s. If Karen were alive today, she would still be in the public eye and not a crazy fat-assed recluse like Linda Ronstadt.

by Anonymousreply 12410/22/2011

Holy Jesus, R115, Karen was fat, fat, fat! Did she kill herself because she was so depressed at being a lardass?

by Anonymousreply 12510/22/2011

Fanny Brice was not 'schlumpy'. In real life, she was an extremely elegant woman who spoke foreign languages and dressed impeccably. This is why her daughter Fran was not interested in having Streisand play her at first. This was the early, thrift shop clothes-wearing Streisand and Fran didn't think she was nearly elegant enough. Early Midler would not have been even in the same ballpark.

by Anonymousreply 12610/22/2011

Btw, Anne Bancroft dropped out of Funny Girl for one reason only: she had been assured by composer Jule Styne that the score would be suitable to her limited range. Styne, in the meantime, had discovered Streisand and was making nightly visits to her nightclub act in the Village. He began composing the score for her voice, her range, her abilities. When Bancroft heard People, she said I can never sing this and bowed out.

by Anonymousreply 12710/22/2011

For fuck's sake, you queens could turn a thread about a nuclear holocaust into a dissertation on fucking Funny Girl. Enough.

by Anonymousreply 12810/22/2011

[quote]When Bancroft heard People, she said I can never sing this and bowed out.

Bancroft may have blanched upon hearing the song, but it wasn't written for BS -- it was written for The Mr Magoo Christmas Special that Styne also scored.

by Anonymousreply 12910/22/2011

What would Karen Carpenter think of how the music business is going these days had she lived passed her thirties?

by Anonymousreply 13010/22/2011

R130, I imagine Karen, if alive today, would do a wonderfully subtextual version of "My neck, my back, lick my pussy and my crack".

by Anonymousreply 13110/22/2011

[quote] John Lennon himself said he loved the Carpenters' cover of "Ticket To Ride."

Link, please.

by Anonymousreply 13210/22/2011

R132 This is all I could find just as of right now.

[quote]John Lennon once told her “You’ve got a fabulous voice,” while Paul McCartney reportedly called it “the best female voice in the world—melodic, tuneful, and distinctive.”

by Anonymousreply 13310/22/2011

R123 = psychotic retarded Karen Carpenter fangurl

by Anonymousreply 13410/23/2011

let me say you're wrong

by Anonymousreply 13511/18/2012

R13: Miss Karen talked like someone with a problem with dolls.

by Anonymousreply 13611/18/2012

[quote]If Karen were alive today, she would still be in the public eye and not a crazy fat-assed recluse like Linda Ronstadt.

Don't talk to me about crazy. I'm the one who is still alive.

by Anonymousreply 13711/18/2012

[quote]That's not an easy feet.

Must you crazy foot fetish trolls infest every thread?

by Anonymousreply 13811/18/2012

We finally have a consensus: Karen Carpenter should have played Fanny Brice.

by Anonymousreply 13911/18/2012

Both Karen and Bette are closet lesbians.

by Anonymousreply 14011/18/2012

Have there ever actually been Midler lesbian rumours? I've heard Karen rumours before, but never any about Bette.

by Anonymousreply 14111/18/2012

I love them both as singers. They have really beautiful voices. However, i think like you Op that Karen had a more lovely voice. In their personal lives, i also suspect that Bette was more coarse and vocal than gentle Karen, but maybe,after all, that's only an impression i have... Karen's voice is impossible not to move someone, you know?

by Anonymousreply 14311/18/2012

why was this thread bumped?

by Anonymousreply 14411/18/2012

if memory serves Bette said something about the Carpenters being 'so white they're transparent'

by Anonymousreply 14511/18/2012

Bette Midler was lady enough to apologize for having mocked Karen. She didn't apologize about Richard, but since he married his biological first cousin and had five children by her, it was best for her to not even mention the sick fuck.

[quote]Bette Midler says she has deep regrets about 'making all those Karen Carpenter jokes.'

[quote]In the September issue of Redbook, Midler apologizes to the deceased singer and her family.

[quote]'She had a tremendous talent, and I was a jerk for saying those things (about Carpenter's anorexia),' Midler said. 'I was young and stupid and crazy, and thought I was doing profound and enduring stuff. But I wasn't - I was adding to the ugliness in the world.'

by Anonymousreply 14611/18/2012

Funny then how Bette has spent the second half of her career doing middle-of-the-road albums that Karen very likely would have made (better).

by Anonymousreply 14711/18/2012

She used to kiss Barbra Streisand's ass in person and then make snide comments about her behind her back, even prompting Barbra to make the comment, "Oh, that's just Bette's shtick."

In the past few years, though, Bette and Barbra have become better friends and Bette only has wonderful things to say about her. Bette was front row and center at her LA concert last week.

by Anonymousreply 14811/18/2012

This is everyone who says they're lame -

by Anonymousreply 14911/18/2012

Bette Midler is simply awful. She'll be remembered for all of the pitchy schmaltz she subjected the world to. She talks about what an "artist" she is, etc., but she has made more MOR garbage than any of her contemporaries.

by Anonymousreply 15011/18/2012

To put it blandly, Karen Carpenter had the greatest female voice i have ever happened to hear. Soft, feminine, powerful, soulful, sincere.

by Anonymousreply 15111/19/2012

R150, you can't deny she was great in the 70s. Her Live at Last album is fantastic. And some of her movies still stand up well, especially Ruthless People.

by Anonymousreply 15211/19/2012

She was just jealous cause Karen was thin.

by Anonymousreply 15311/19/2012

Guys, yes both were great undoubtedly. It's just that Bette was more sassy and she could be impolite in the past. However, i'm glad that according to the link that R146 gave us, Bette seems regretful of her past silly comments. That says a lot. Karen Karen, how we miss you, you were the greatest among female voices. Bette you've been great too, thank God that you understood that you made a lot of inelegant and unfair remarks in your past!

by Anonymousreply 15411/19/2012

Why did Karen marry a gay man?

by Anonymousreply 15511/19/2012

Maybe she liked feminine qualities in a man. :)

by Anonymousreply 15611/19/2012

I was watching an old WKRP last night. Venus had to play a Carpenter's song for Mr. Carlson. They show him at the end unhappily listening to the record, then is startled as he finds himself getting sucked in and swaying to the music.

by Anonymousreply 15711/19/2012

Bette Midler was a fantastic performer who became a terrible disappointment as a person. Haven't paid attention to her since the mid '80s.

by Anonymousreply 15811/19/2012

"To put it blandly, Karen Carpenter had the greatest female voice i have ever happened to hear. Soft, feminine, powerful, soulful, sincere"

Hon, you must not have heard many female voices. Her voice is dead, lifeless, monotonous, dreary, mediocre. She always sounded like she'd popped a couple of quaaludes before every recording session.

by Anonymousreply 15911/19/2012

Well, R159, actually i'm a music buff and i have heard a lot of female and male voices. Karen simply won my heart with the warmth and the sincerity of her voice. Maybe you only get moved by 'black' dynamic voices but that doesn't mean that all the rest can't be powerful and melodic and sometimes even better that the ideal black voice.

by Anonymousreply 16011/19/2012

[quote]She sang flat. Had a small range. No real power behind the voice. Did not have much sense of phrasing.

All that and just two degrees from comatose. She was just plain awful.

by Anonymousreply 16111/19/2012

NO her voice was the opposite of awful. There was obviously a dreamy soul, a serenity and gentleness behind it. How couldn't you sense that? It really amazes me...

by Anonymousreply 16211/19/2012

This is how I break it down.

Karen had a beautiful tone to her voice. You can't make that happen if you don't have it naturally. She had a gift she was born with but she couldn't do much with it, and that's okay. I love that warm rich tone her voice possesses. So I would put her in the has a beautiful voice category.

A great singer is someone who has a beautiful voice and knows how to use it. My best example is Streisand. Beautiful voice and how she uses it, her vocal expression of ideas or feelings how she performs the song. Personal favorite is Yentl soundtrack. She is acting through singing and masterfully so. Too bad she did not stay in musical theater.

And there are vocal stylists like Bette. Good enough voice but it's mainly the performance more than vocal quality she brings to the song that makes her what she is. More about phrasing than vocal perfection.

Karen and Bette aren't comparable they are too different in what makes them great.

Btw could someone start a thread about great artists covering their contemporaries and doing an equally good version? I'm thinking like Gladys covered The Way We Were and Elton covered Lucy In The Sky both of which I enjoy as much as the original.

by Anonymousreply 16311/19/2012

Why does Bette as a person disappoint you R158?

I get that she mellowed out and became less outrageous, and maybe less outspoken during a time when she could have maybe been more opinionated, but some of it comes with aging. If she tried to act now like she did in the 70s, she'd look crazier than Madonna does.

by Anonymousreply 16411/19/2012

Thanks r163. That was a very good way to put it.

Some are all three (Sinatra, Garland). To me, Streisand is has a great voice and she has a great voice and is a great singer. Her style is iffy.

by Anonymousreply 16511/19/2012

r158 is no doubt referring to bette's unfortunate remarks about gay marriage about 6-7 years ago.

She has since apologized for those too, so give her a break.

by Anonymousreply 16611/19/2012

There was obviously a dreamy soul... who sang flat. There was... a serenity and gentleness behind it and that may be why she had no range and no power behind the voice.

by Anonymousreply 16711/19/2012

Karen was a better singer, of course. But Bette has always been a better storyteller. Her first few albums, and especially Live at Last, are her absolute greatest moments.

And Bette sang Superstar before Karen, which is really funny.

by Anonymousreply 16811/19/2012

I remeber back in the day a critic commented that Karen Carpenter's voice was akin to Pat Nixon eating an ice cream cone with a spoon...always thought that was brillant and spot on....

by Anonymousreply 16911/19/2012

Has the Janbot troll weighed in yet?

by Anonymousreply 17011/19/2012

The dismissal of Karen Carpenter's voice is a symptom of a peculiarly American tendency (IMO) to apply the "bigger is better" principle to everything including singing voices. Of course that disease has now spread to other parts of the world, but I've found that Americans, more than anyone else, are more impressed by big, loud voices and they also seem to believe that these are indicators of better musical ability than less powerful ones.

by Anonymousreply 17111/20/2012

Eating an ice cream cone with a spoon sounds like another "dialing the phone with a pencil". I must try it.

by Anonymousreply 17211/20/2012

R171 bless your mouth! I totally agree with you.

by Anonymousreply 17311/20/2012

Karen had several lesbian encounters in the 60's and 70's but didn't consider herself a lesbian. Also according to 2 close friends they grew up with, Karen and Richard apparently experimented with each other more than once.

by Anonymousreply 17411/28/2012

OK. Now THAT is some heavy duty major league gossip right there!!!

(1) thank you r174.

(2) what about ONJ?

(3) did you know them, or did you know their friends?

by Anonymousreply 17511/28/2012


by Anonymousreply 17611/28/2012

I went to high school with Richard, I was a year behind him. I didn't know him well but knew a couple of Karen's friends quite well. And BTW, How is it that just because someone likes her singing ability (which I do as well) that this is automatically untrue? She wasn't peaches and cream, no one is. We're all human.

by Anonymousreply 17711/28/2012


by Anonymousreply 17811/28/2012

Were her lesbian experiences limited to high school, r174? She seems so obviously gay in hindsight (tomboy, drums, sports, gay speaking voice).

by Anonymousreply 17911/28/2012

Being lesbian is not reproachable but fucking your own blood it is sick. So stop telling that Karen and Richard experimented with each other, it's so disrespectful of you.

by Anonymousreply 18011/28/2012

To AAAAH: I heard this from her friends. It may or may not be true. It was discussed before anyone even knew who the Carpenters were. Did you know Karen and/or her friends, AAAH, do you know for a fact it didn't happen? Did you go to our highschool? You seem pretty sure of it. How dare you "matter of fact(ly)" say it didn't happen. It may have, or not. I just know the whole school had heard that rumor. I think her (alleged)lesbian encounters were probably limited to high school. That was passed on to me by a mutual friend of ours who said she and Karen kissed for an hour in her parents basement. She was 16 at the time. We lived about 4 blocks from them and my parents would not let my brother or I trick or treat at their house because of her "weird" mother as my mom called her.

by Anonymousreply 18111/28/2012

You know R180, if you can't stand the heat, then maybe you and your little potty mouth need to get out of the kitchen!

by Anonymousreply 18211/28/2012

Entertainer, don't fuck people with your mouth man/woman. You and your gossipy friends are not a reliable source, you are only trivializing people with your gop. Kissing a girl is pretty normal for a teenager girl but you you passed the limit when you implied that two siblings had sex between them.

by Anonymousreply 18311/28/2012

Luther Vandross doing Superstar, starts about 1:57

Some great parts in it will give you chills, esp when he sings "Long ago...." it does not sustain it's greatness but he can do it pretty well.

by Anonymousreply 18411/28/2012

* teenage

Fuck it.

by Anonymousreply 18511/28/2012

AHHH, I'm not "impling" anything. I went to school with them and I'm repeating what the word was at the time in that school before anyone in the world knew who they were. And I'm not sure where you grew up, but 2 teenage girls kissing each other is not considered a "normal thing" apparently it is for you. This conversation is over. I won't dignify answering ignorance and immaturity. Go back to Fantasyland where everything is sunshine and roses for you.

by Anonymousreply 18611/28/2012

Sometimes I get the feeling that in her heart, Bette is a Republican.

by Anonymousreply 18711/28/2012

In the late 1940s Fanny Brice said "There's only one dame than can play me, and that's Joan Davis!"

by Anonymousreply 18811/28/2012

ignore AAAAH, Entertainer.

Thanks for posting. I believe you.

by Anonymousreply 18911/28/2012

Entertainer, two girls kissing each other is not normal when you feel bad and you speak bad about it. You obviously feel bad about lesbianism and you shouldn't, cause it's just attraction between two people like it is the attraction between man and woman. It's not out of the blue if a girl kiss another girl or if a boy kiss another boy. Obviously you are in that Fantasyland you want me to go. You are immature in the matters of the heart out of stubborness and not because you are really ignorant. That's what i think about you now.

Sunshine and roses are in my garden, but i also have thorns and ants in it.

For one more time...i don't believe that Karen and Richard were experimenting with each other, they were just very close to one another.

by Anonymousreply 19011/28/2012

It would be interesting to know how many records/CD's etc world-wide each has sold. In the 90's the Carpenters were still HUGE in Japan. I was floored at how many of their songs were sung at Karaoke bars, and seeing their CDs still in shops as best sellers. Even today, there's a whole new generation discovering Karen Carpenter there. Bette? Nope.

by Anonymousreply 19111/28/2012

Here's Karen doing Superstar. No one can top this. I do love Thurston Moore's version too.

Bette is just crap. Always has been treacly crap. Karen was sold as treacly crap but was a fantastic amazing singer, and was absolutely gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 19211/28/2012

AAAAH you write as if english is not your first language.

I don't believe the incest rumor, but I have NO problem believing the lesbian rumors. Keep in mind, Entertainer is repeating high school gossip. Feel free to carry on, but your over the top reaction is kind of, well, over the top.

by Anonymousreply 19311/28/2012

R193, you write as if you want to insult me, but of course you can't. I think you are just jealous of my eloquence and you just tried on purpose to stuck on my previous speed error (look at the *). Well, the only thing you managed is to be inelegantly...transparent. Fix your insults, learn to support your arguments and don't worry about my passionate point of view...

by Anonymousreply 19411/28/2012

Have you seen The Rose?!! Bette has an incredible voice!

by Anonymousreply 19511/28/2012

Bette Midler was/is far superior in talent and singing ability to Karen Carpenter. The Carpenters music and popularity was on the sharp decline prior to Karen's death. (except with the over 50 y/o Liberace fans) especiallly with their elevator music style. Barry Manilow and the Bee Gee's were blowing the Carpenters off the music charts. If that overbearing idiot Richard had "allowed" Karen to go solo she might have done pretty well.

by Anonymousreply 19611/28/2012

richard is culpable.

by Anonymousreply 19711/28/2012

The best version of "Groupie (Superstar)" is Bonnie Bramlett's, and she was one of the song's writers.

by Anonymousreply 19811/28/2012

AHHH, Besides ignorance you obviously just barely speak or write English. Why don't you learn proper grammer and the English language before you attempt to express your opinions here.

by Anonymousreply 19911/28/2012

AHHH be honest -- what is your first language?

by Anonymousreply 20011/28/2012


by Anonymousreply 20111/28/2012

feel better r8?

by Anonymousreply 20211/28/2012

I find it interesting how people so desperately wish to think that incest never happens.

It happens. A lot.

And I'm sure it's happened to a plenty of famous people.

And maybe it happened with Karen and her brother.

Usually that type of incest happens when kids are sexually molested by a family member. They then sexualize within the family.

It's not rocket science. And again, happens ALL the time.

by Anonymousreply 20311/28/2012

I saw Bette Midler in the mid-70s atthe Merriwether-Post Pavilion in Maryland. I remember that she made wisecracks about anyone who had recorded songs she had recorded. And yes, she was snide about Karen Carpenter. I felt that was unfair because the Carpenters had a big hit with "Superstar" long before Bette Midler was recording.

However, her comment about Helen Reddy, who had a hit with "Delta Dawn" long after Bette had done it, was brilliant.

"I am woman, who can tell?"

by Anonymousreply 20411/28/2012

A friend of mind lived next door to the C's when they were teens. She's the one who told me the incest rumors before I ever heard it anywhere else.

by Anonymousreply 20511/29/2012

Maybe their dad molested them both and that's how the rumors started...

It seems clear they were widely regarded as strange, way before the 2 became famous. Very weird dynamics in that family.

Poor Karen. She never had a chance.

Is it really true that Richard married his first cousin?

by Anonymousreply 20611/29/2012

You're not Rock Star Martyr are you?

by Anonymousreply 20711/29/2012

...did Little Girl Blue address the lesbian rumors?

by Anonymousreply 20811/29/2012


by Anonymousreply 20911/30/2012

[quote]Bette Midler was/is far superior in talent and singing ability to Karen Carpenter.

That isn't saying much. Karen Carpenter was a questionable talent but Midler is herself a very limited and unpleasant singer. The best thing I've ever read about Midler's singing is the quote below, which explains why her live performances are a lot more successful than someone with her musical abilities deserves.

[quote]For enhanced appreciation, Bette's mediocre vocal quality requires intervening comedy relief and her comedy requires an intervening lyrical respite.

by Anonymousreply 21011/30/2012

I can't believe there are people on this thread who consider Karen Carpenter a lesser or questionable talent.

by Anonymousreply 21111/30/2012

But that has always been the whole point of Midler R210. She's a comic and a singer. She really was born too late, she would have been fabulous as an entertainer and movie star in the 40s and 50s

by Anonymousreply 21211/30/2012

[quote]But that has always been the whole point of Midler [R210]. She's a comic and a singer. She really was born too late, she would have been fabulous as an entertainer and movie star in the 40s and 50s

Except Midler with her distinctive Jewish looks would never have made it as a movie star in the conservative 40s and 50s. Even changing her name wouldn't have helped. She might have been reasonably successful on Broadway and as a nightclub act though.

by Anonymousreply 21311/30/2012

Entertainer (R199,R200) your pointless bitchery must make people like you happy. Learn first to correct your spelling and then try to give me grammar lessons which of course i don't need and you know it...

by Anonymousreply 21411/30/2012

r214. Why did you get all unhinged at the incest rumor?

The poor carpenters had incest rumors about them when they were at the peak of their careers, so it's not like it's something new.

I don't believe them either, but I'm not unhinged like you.

If anything, I *could* believe the dad molested Karen (or both kids). And yes, Karen was likely a closet-lesbian, and no, there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Get a grip.

And the longer you go without answering the first language question the more it is clear it is not english.

by Anonymousreply 21511/30/2012

[quote] savoir-vivre and politesse.


by Anonymousreply 21711/30/2012

Of all the popular singers in the 20th century you pick these two, who are not alike in any way except in genre, to compare singing talents? Why not Barbra Streisand and Helen Reddy?

by Anonymousreply 21811/30/2012

[quote]I'm very experienced to the human race but i still feel frustration when i meet people of your kind.

First language: Japanese?

by Anonymousreply 21911/30/2012

I love Japanese but you are wrong about my first language. Oh...fix your gall issues R219, you are sick. Don't make me feel sorry for you.

by Anonymousreply 22011/30/2012

[quote]Don't make me feel sorry for you.

Hmm...mildly threatening passive aggressive: German?

by Anonymousreply 22111/30/2012

I'm not aggressive, just fair. Remember you attack The Carpenters first by spreading wicked rumors and yet you tried to insult me with deplorable insults. Hahaha. Some people are so wickedly ready to be mean. Incredible. Take my advice and go to see a psychologist 221 or whoever else you really are. Certainly you are not ok.

by Anonymousreply 22211/30/2012

I got it -- Dutch!

by Anonymousreply 22311/30/2012

No comments, i feel a kind of compassion for your bad psychology and i'll pass.

by Anonymousreply 22411/30/2012

"gall issues"??

"wicked rumors...deplorable insults"??

by Anonymousreply 22511/30/2012

Obviously your vocabulary is limited and you only know slang well. Ciao pet! Read a literature book or two, they won't harm you.

by Anonymousreply 22611/30/2012

...not related, huh? they both have the same squinched features...

by Anonymousreply 22711/30/2012

ok maybe Italian. But definitely unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 22811/30/2012

Richard Carpenter married his biological first cousin and had five children with her. Since he did that, the odds are high that he might have molested his own sister.

He tried to spin things to make it seem as though his first cousin was adopted but look at the picture R227 linked to and get back to me on that end.

by Anonymousreply 22911/30/2012

Right. They do look like biological cousins to be sure. And their children. Poor things. They all have those scrunchy rheumy faces too....

And Richard has schlepped them onstage has he not?

He does seem like a creepy character.

by Anonymousreply 23011/30/2012

Fun fact about anorexia: it's mainly found in girls because it's starvation with the specific intent to desexualize. Starvation is a fast way to lose the hips and breasts which occur in females around puberty. Hence why anorexia is most prevalent around that age in females. No amount of starvation takes away a dick and balls, or facial hair, etc.

Now, let's put on our thinking cap. Why was KC trying to desexualize herself? DEEP issues regarding sex and her body.

by Anonymousreply 23111/30/2012

...her voice.

by Anonymousreply 23211/30/2012

one more.

(HATE Sing and Top of the World.)

by Anonymousreply 23311/30/2012

R226, do you know the homosex where the man go up into the man?

by Anonymousreply 23411/30/2012


by Anonymousreply 23511/30/2012

I am going through a renewed Karen Carpenter obsession. Someone help me, please!!

by Anonymousreply 23612/03/2012

am i the only one...?

by Anonymousreply 23712/12/2012

I know a lot of people who are obsessed with Karen Carpenter (me included) but I don't think there's anybody obsessed with Bette Midler

by Anonymousreply 23812/18/2012

If Richard had taken that ham sandwich from Mama Cass and gave it to Karen, the world would be better off today.

by Anonymousreply 23912/18/2012

with just one sandwich?

by Anonymousreply 24012/18/2012

I think Midler is a MASTER performer, and I like her an awful lot, but no, I am not obsessed with her. I worry about my obsession with KC though...

by Anonymousreply 24112/18/2012


did you ever see the SIZE of a sandwich made by that fat bitch Mama Cass?

by Anonymousreply 24212/18/2012

Poor Karen never got to fulfill her attraction to other women and had to endure the indignity of family weiner.

I think this is the story of millions of women who have ever lived on this keening and dying planet. But she left a legacy of a beautiful voice which, if you listen carefully, is the sound of a melancholy mother nature.

by Anonymousreply 24312/18/2012

Those poor lesbians who never had Karen sing into their snatch

by Anonymousreply 24412/18/2012

I'm going to play my old Carpenters albums backwards to hear any messages that have to do with 12/21/12.

by Anonymousreply 24512/18/2012

Karen was NOT gay. She was bestest of friends, part 1, with "lipstick lesbian" Olivia Newton-John. ON-J said, "Karen was constantly trying to fix me up with her brother." And ON-J did NOT like Richard Carpenter. She was on Merv and she said, that he took way too much credit away from Karen.

by Anonymousreply 24612/19/2012

She was gay. She was simply too naive to be aware of it.

Listen to her speaking voice.

by Anonymousreply 24712/19/2012

If Karen had married Olivia instead of Burris she'd be alive and happy. She probably wanted to fix her with her brother because it was the only possibility she saw of keeping Olivia close to her. Anyway, I'm just speculating but, why would Karen want to force her best friend to be with someone she didn't like? Really twisted.

by Anonymousreply 24812/19/2012

R248, sadly, to deflect the sexual attention that Richard gave Karen onto Olivia.

That's probably why she was trying to set them up, it's was Karen's offbeat cry for help and hint to her best friend.

If Karen Carpenter doesn't ping I don't know who does.

She was the Ping-Ball Wizard.

by Anonymousreply 24912/19/2012

Taste is subjective, girls.

by Anonymousreply 25001/10/2013


by Anonymousreply 25101/10/2013

[quote]Why don't you learn proper grammer and the English language before you attempt to express your opinions here.

If you're going to be a grammar queen, you'll need to know how to spell "grammar." After that, you'll need to learn to properly punctuate a question.

by Anonymousreply 25205/20/2013

I think until Bette completely recovers from this cancer scare and surgery, we should withhold comment about her lest we make the same mistake she made with Karen Carpenter.

by Anonymousreply 25305/20/2013

[quote]Eumir Deodato is AWESOME. Have been a fan for years.

Oh you're the one!

by Anonymousreply 25405/20/2013

Who keeps bumping these old-ass threads?

by Anonymousreply 25505/20/2013

Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with Bette Midler, I just wanted to say how I love Karen Carpenter's voice. I am currently listening to her sing Ave Maria -- wow! Her voice just resonates and strikes deep in the heart. While I am not a fan of every Carpenters song, I do like many of them and don't believe anyone can sing them any better than Karen did.

Just my opinion.


by Anonymousreply 25612/01/2013

does OP actually think that schtick = real life?

Bette's a performer. Never believe anything we say onstage.

by Anonymousreply 25712/01/2013

I´m to brainless to comment.

by Anonymousreply 25802/15/2014

R30, Midler might not be a better singer than Babs but for sure she can act and Babs can't, not in the least.

by Anonymousreply 25902/15/2014

It's too, not to R 259, so ITA.

by Anonymousreply 26002/15/2014

The only other version of, "Superstar", that is worth listening to is Luther hem, live mind you. Bette Midler? For the love of music, PLEASE! Karen Carpenter, your sealed in my heart forever. You might not know it, but I am close to you.

by Anonymousreply 26110/27/2014

My favorite Karen Carpenter song was not one of her hits. It was a song from 1938 - I think maybe the McGuire sisters. But what she does with it is amazing, but it's sad song. Haunting.

by Anonymousreply 26210/27/2014

Bette Midler should be sentenced to death for From A Distance. And for never hitting a fucking note on pitch not fucking once in her entire fucking life.

Carpenter was Callas and Garland combined in comparison.

by Anonymousreply 26310/27/2014

Bette Midler is a brilliant entertainer.

Karen Carpenter is a brilliant singer.

My Uncle Tony is a brilliant plumber.

13 is a brilliant unlucky number.

by Anonymousreply 26410/27/2014

When I saw Bette in 1974, she had a few jokes about people who had recorded the same songs as she had. She had jabs about Karen Carpenter about "Superstar," but her most memorable jab was at "Helen Reddy," who had a hit with "Delta Dawn" after Bette had recorded it.

"I am woman, who can tell?"

BTW--the absolute best rendition of "Superstar" was by Leon Russell. Even more soulful than Bette or Luther. I was kind of surprised a few years ago to learn that Leon Russell never recorded the song. I just wish everyone could hear what I remember.

by Anonymousreply 26510/27/2014

The original recording of 'Groupie Superstar' is by Delaney and Bonnie. The Carpenters changed the lyric ' to sleep with you again' in ' to be with you again'.

by Anonymousreply 26610/27/2014

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 26710/27/2014

I prefer Midler's version of Superstar - she sounds like her guts are being ripped out. Karen Carpenter sounds bored.

by Anonymousreply 26810/27/2014

Not one fag on Datalounge would've been familiar with the song, "Superstar" if Karen Carpenter hadn't recorded it.

by Anonymousreply 26910/28/2014

R267, Winehouse recorded A Song For You not Superstar.

by Anonymousreply 27010/28/2014

[quote] Not one fag on Datalounge would've been familiar with the song, "Superstar" if Karen Carpenter hadn't recorded it.

That's doesn't make any sense considering it was previously recorded by Bette Fucking Midler, who was 1970s Queen of the Gays alongside Streisand (Streisand/Midler gays was even a joke in the Tales of the City books).

by Anonymousreply 27110/28/2014

I read somewhere that Superstar was scheduled to be a single for Cher in 1970. Did she ever release it?

by Anonymousreply 27210/28/2014

[R271] I apologize. It must've slipped my mind that Bette Midler's version hit the #1 Billboard spot and stayed their for unclean weeks.

It was originally recorded by Delaney and Bonnie, if their are any straight folks in the crowd.

by Anonymousreply 27310/28/2014

[quote] I apologize. It must've slipped my mind that Bette Midler's version hit the #1 Billboard spot and stayed their for unclean weeks.

What has that got to do with introducing the song to gays? Midler had it on an album, and even if it was a flop album (it wasn't), pop success doesn't mean popularity with the gays or at least, it didn't necessarily in the past.

by Anonymousreply 27410/28/2014

I'm gay and have known who Delaney and Bonnie were since they were Delaney and Bonnie. She co-wrote "Superstar" with Leon Russell, and went on to play Roseanne's friend "Bonnie." They had a hit with "Never Ending Song of Love."

I kind of doubt I'm the only gay person who knows these things.

by Anonymousreply 27510/28/2014

R273 needs a nap.

by Anonymousreply 27610/28/2014

bump (so I remember to read it )

by Anonymousreply 27710/12/2015

R277 Try a Post-It next time.

by Anonymousreply 27810/12/2015
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