How is Lana Del Rey’s new album not a major topic?

I'm not a big fan, but I found myself listening to the album while scrolling through YT.

Fuck. When did she become amazing?

Who?

[quote]How is Lana Del Rey’s new album not a major topic?

Because nobody likes her OP.

I’m utterly addicted to this track. It’s utterly entrancing and ridiculously beautiful. My favourite.

[quote] Fuck. When did she become amazing?

She hooked me with “Honeymoon” and kept getting better with each release. The development of her songwriting and vision has been a joy to behold. “Norman Fucking Rockwell” was probably the watershed moment when even her harshest critics and attackers had to concede, “nope, she’s actually brilliant.”

I already knew there was a tunnel under Ocean Blvd. Any true Venice Bitch would.

[quote] The development of her songwriting and vision has been a joy to behold

MARY!!

“I've been tearing around in my fucking nightgown

24/7 Sylvia Plath

Writing in blood on the walls

'Cause the ink in my pen don't work in my notepad.”

MARY!, Lana-style, R7

Another record with 40 minutes of the same song? Nah, I'm good.

Listened to it first thing on Friday and apart from the four songs I liked -- already more than what I liked on Chemtrails and Bannisters [italic]combined[/italic] -- I wasn't sure at first, but now it's growing on me more and more.

[quote]The development of her songwriting and vision has been a joy to behold

I actually agree with this. The NYT review nails what's so appealing about her to me, i.e. she has the perfect balance of the sacred and the profane, with occasional flashes of remarkable profundity. I used to be a big fan of Adele, but her songwriting seems so basic to me now.

[quote]Nine albums into her career, she has become a musical mermaid, capable of breathing as easily on the surface as she can in the ocean’s darkest depths.

This is why I don't listen to music anymore.

Oh, and I agree about the interludes. Especially the Judah Smith one. I ain't ever forgetting that scammer at one point in his grifting career compared us to murderers and rapists.

Hopefully this is just a phase and she moves on from the religious crap. I prefer her when she's just vaguely spiritual.

[quote]Oh, and I agree about the interludes. Especially the Judah Smith one. I ain't ever forgetting that scammer at one point in his grifting career compared us to murderers and rapists.

I had never listened to anything by LDR before clicking this thread, and I liked A&W and Ocean Blvd., but when I found out who Judah Smith was, I didn't listen to any more LDR, and I think it's going to stay that way

r13 Yeah, I had the same reaction at first, but then I checked out her fandom and saw they weren't on board with it either. So I think she's done with this now. It's a faux pas basically, she was trying to reconnect to her Catholic roots and what's less problematic than Churchome in L.A., which preaches about nothing these days.

She's too insular and wasn't she accused of being vaguely racist?

They accused her of being racist because she had a chola hairstyle on one of the album covers.

I love that she doubled down on it in this album with that "Lanita" bit. Fuck those people.

The song posted by R4, Paris, Texas is beautiful. It reminds me of Joni Mitchell which is a high compliment.

r17 Along with The Grants, it's the prettiest sounding song on the album, I think.

R12 Dude, she's making fun of his bullshit.

Though, I ASSUME that she tricked him into allowing her to use his sermon.

r19 That thought occurred to me as well, since she can be heard giggling throughout the sermon. But why would he agree to have his sermon on the album if that were the case? Is he really that dumb to be tricked into it?

…those and the song with the ridiculously long title. It was pretty on the first listen, but after a couple I utterly adored it. It’s intimate and beautiful.

I don’t think I’ll ever listen to the pastor interlude again but it’s thematically well placed. Right after “American Whore”, a preacher ranting about lust and then, at the end he admits something like “I used to think I was preaching for you, but I’m actually doing it for me” which is…interesting. I think there are multiple ways to read into it. It’s a skip though.

r21 Same. So many of the songs are growing on me so quickly, I now find the album just as good as NFR.

r22 Agreed, it's just an interlude, it doesn't really matter that much at the end of the day.

[quote] They accused her of being racist because she had a chola hairstyle on one of the album covers.

Yes, because parting your hair in the middle and wearing it in a bun was invented by Hispanic women in the 1980’s. Therefore if any white woman wears her hair like that she is a racist. Thankfully, many people know Lana is a racist even if they don’t know why.

She's mentally ill but definitely a brilliant artist. I think she's more ignorant and elitist than racist though it's a thin line. Spoiled rich white girl who went to private schools and abused tons of drugs would not be the most politically correct or culturally sensitive person. Her rant about Beyonce, Nicki, Cardi B and Rihanna was poorly timed and taken out of context. But her comments on Trump didn't help her case. She's an idiot in regards to social issues and politics. But hardly a horrible person or bigot that she's made out to be.

Don't make the mistake of seeing her in concert, she's much more enjoyable to listen to rather than seeing live.

Agreed, she has good intentions but puts her foot in her mouth too often, like when she patted herself on the back for effortlessly being inclusive before it was hip (look at my colorful friends on the Chemtrails album cover). I get what she was saying about Trump, his narcissism prevents him from seeing he’s done wrong, which isn’t excusing his actions. Remember when she posted advice on casting a Wiccan binding spell on him? I laughed out loud when she said “I’m not the one storming the Capitol.” Oh, and her bizarro fight with her former friend Azaelia Banks: “I won’t not fuck you the fuck up.”

That's because she can't sing, r26, even with the aid of live autotune. She sounds like shit in real life.

[quote]t’s brilliant, her best in my opinion. The songs are awesome, her voice gives me goosebumps, it’s such an experience. I could do without the two “interludes,” but the song below (American Whore, not the root beer) is an ear worm like no other.

I always wondered who listened to this shit. Now I know.

Pity.

She can sing live, as evidenced by countless live performances you can see on YouTube.

r29 Gods forbid others had a different taste than you. People are supposed to shed that attitude in their teens, you definitely sound too old to be typing up replies like those. Also, what does the "pity" part even mean? It's an anonymous forum, you don't even know that poster. Unhinged.

Yup, she did the right thing by stepping right back from social media. She basically revealed in “Wildflower Wildfire” that she’s bipolar and that definitely contextualises some of the awkward outbursts she’s had. I don’t think she’s racist and think she means well. Just for such a beautiful lyricist she can be bad at expressing herself outside of songwriting with a tendency to put her foot in it.

Often she (or her team) writes some of the cringest, the most hipster lyrics in the history of popular music.

There's a beer called American Whore?

My "don't go see her live comment" was based on how cringe I thought she was. It was like she was pretending to be a hippy chic or something she thought was cool or what the audience wanted to see. It had nothing to do with her singing ability. Most singers don't sing entire live sets anymore. She also can't dance nor should she, I mean does her music lend itself to dancing? I was a fan because of NFR but I didn't realize that she was just produced by the guy from Bleachers. Most musicians personas are who they are and can't hide it, like when I saw Amy Winehouse live - she was a mess but she could still sing and was genuine. She wasn't pretending to be a mess. Anyway, I hate the religious tracks and don't get it. I'll skip those tracks and still listen to it. I just won't go see her live.

She attends a LA megachurch called Churchome. I guess she switched from Catholic to Evangelical. I mean given her mental issues and recently going sober, it's almost cliche to find comfort in religion. The only concern is the homophobia, misogyny and cultist nature of these type of churches.

R26 I saw her live in late 2019. She sounded great.

Autotune and backing singers, r36.

No autotune. Some backup. Live in Montreal.

Lana is mysterious. This was a beautiful sad, erotic, regretful tribute to Leonard Cohen. I was there. Girl has a pretty and evocative voice. Not too much vibrato. She can sing.

I was there. It was a great night. Sting, Elvis Costello, Celine, Courtney Love, Chris Martin, Elvis Costello and Bettye Lavette all performed.

Lana was lovely, with Adam Cohen.

Lana doesn’t use autotune (that said, “Fishtail” on the new album uses it as a creative effect and in a fairly cool way). She can sing just fine live (and has more than redeemed herself for *that* SNL performance over a decade ago).

The reason I’d never go to a Lana concert is only because of how the fans obnoxiously sing/shout along loudly to each fucking song. I’d have to kill multiple people. It would end in tears.

She always struck me as a crooner type. Obviously not a powerhouse singer. Not every singer has to be shouty and loud. Conveying emotion is the most important thing. Plenty of jazz and blues singers have small voices.

I have seen her live three times, and she definitely can sing. That being said, when I saw her on the Norman Fucking Rockwell tour, she did lip-synch during her first song when she came onstage. I think it was "Bartender"—I have good ears and could tell that I was hearing the album cut without a shadow of a doubt. Other than that, she did sing live throughout the rest of the show, with some looping backing tracks of her own voice, plus her backup singers. I think the best show I saw of hers was the first one just before she released Ultraviolence; I think this was in 2013. She sounded fantastic, and the show was pretty much no-frills. The second time I saw her was in 2015, and Courtney Love of all people opened for her, which was a weird but fun pairing for me because I am a diehard Hole fan (I'd previously seen Courtney a couple of times before this).

Lana is a pretty understated vocalist and not much of a belter, but she delivers the emotional currents of the songs, and that's all that matters to me. Smart singers aren't always the most vocally acrobatic—they know what the material demands and deliver it accordingly without having to show off. It's all about the song, and I think she approaches it that way. She pretty much just stands onstage and sings. She did a couple of showy quasi-dance numbers on the Norman Fucking Rockwell tour that I felt were unnecessary to be honest, but I guess she and/or her team wanted to throw in a little spectacle. I'd rather just hear her alone onstage with her band. I think she's had the same band for about a decade now, and they're great. Her guitar player is fantastic.

This is a standout for me on this record--it's just gorgeous. She seems to be singing from the perspective of watching two of her friends fall in love.

She's a million times better than Toylet Swift who ripped off Lana's "Without You" for her song Wildest Dreams

The interludes suck, there are a couple of outstanding and lovely tracks, and more Lana Del Rey sounding like Lana Del Rey singing Lana Del Rey songs

RE: Lana's religiosity: I also find it a bit odd that she's a regular at these weird megachurches. She was brought up Catholic and has also made it clear she follows things like astrology. She has said many times that she believes in God, but she's definitely not a mainline Christian in any sense of the word. It seems to me that she's more of a seeker than anything; she was a philosophy major in college and seems very interested in spirituality, which is fine—I was brought up Catholic myself and, whether you remain in that church or not, I think it really shapes you to be a spiritual person in some capacity. It's just part of the wiring under the floorboards and kind of hard to shake. A lot of her fans hate the Judah Smith interlude on the record (either because it's a sermon and/or Smith is a gross person) but I frankly found it haunting and worthy of repeat listens. It's definitely one of the more experimental things she's done. The closing line where he declares that his preaching is "mostly about him" was portentous.

R43 I think Taylor is too scared to alienate the fanbase she worked hard to create. Everything she does is carefully calculated for her audience. TS does show she is capable of expanding her horizons and trying different sounds but ultimately plays it safe and goes back to formula. I guess, not a bad thing but definitely a more commercial mentality and she pleases her fans. LDR just makes the music she wants to make and doesn't care what others think. I honestly would not even compare these two.

R45 Maybe it's symbolic. That fire-and-brimstone Evangelicalism is a big part of American culture especially in the South and Midwest and as bigoted as Judah Smith is, his views are not uncommon in many parts of the US where fundamentalism. I listened to this album and I can't tell what her intentions were with this interlude because it seems to be satirical given it's after American Whore. I don't think she agrees with everything he's saying.

R43 I thought it was weird that Swift had Lana feature on a track from her last album, which was apparently quite reduced. To me it seemed like a calculated move on Swift's part to take a grab at some of Lana's clout. Swift is widely known to be a cunt, and Lana seems like a pretty nice person, so I'm sure she took Swift's invitation to out of kindness. Taylor is a vapid and malignantly ambitious social climber, whereas Lana has always seemed pretty low-key in spite of her fame; she also has about 1/100th of the depth that Lana has, and anyone with a functioning brain can deduce this. I don't think Swift's music will be as well-regarded or timeless in the long run.

I think it's definitely satirical R47. Lana does not strike me as someone who is sexually conservative, and as you noted, the track's placement after "American Whore" (where she's singing about fucking on a hotel floor) is no doubt intentional. Lana is very much into her femininity and the archetypes that come with it, but she also has an edgier side to her that is at odds with the old-school ideas of womanhood that she embodies. I think she's someone who wants to strive for "purity", but is self-aware enough to know that she's not fully capable of it. In the end, she's a "fallen" woman doing the best she can. There are a number of recurrent themes in her music that speak to this.

She’s so boring to me.

Singing about “junkie James Dean in overall jeans kissing a Hayworth drag queen” on a song that’s 30 BPM.

I don’t use it.

I saw her live at Hollywood Bowl and it was a fantastic show

I read a recent interview with Lana where she said she only agreed to do the "Interview" magazine cover story on the condition that they get either John Waters or Billie Eilish to interview her. They got Eilish, which is fine, but Lana tipping her hat to John Waters made me like her even more. I think it would have been a much more interesting interview. Apparently Waters is a fan of hers.

I can definitely see Waters liking her. Both share a love for old Americana and kitsch.

^ Both are subversive and deadpan sentimental too.

When asked "what are you thankful for?" in a 2018 interview, Waters responded: "My health and family. And Lana Del Rey."

Some assorted thoughts...

I took me a month to get into A&W because the structure freaked me out so much at first, but it's finally opened up to me now. It's an Alice in Wonderland type of thing, isn't it? She goes from heavy rape stuff, to that middle part with the rabbit hole where it sounds like she's running down the corridors of the Camarillo asylum, to the second part where nothing matters (foreshadowed in the first part already with the "it doesn't really matter") and she's getting high and partying. Just like life, alternating constantly between pleasure and pain. A perfectly balanced song.

I thought I saw God when I heard Taco Truck switching into Venice Bitch for the first time. Reminds me of the tempo changes in West Coast and Black Bathing Suit, which also caused my eyes to roll towards Jesus.

Have never heard Antonoff sing before, but he has such a sexy and folksy voice, I loved his verse in Margaret. Not a fan of other voices from the band joining in, however. Sounded cacophonous to me.

Former Whitney Houston backing singers in The Grants were delightful, but their diction wasn't the best. "Mine" sounded like "mind" in the intro and I can't unhear it. Lana was much more careful with her delivery.

I have some trouble getting into Sweet and Candy Necklace. Am I missing something or are they both just mid?

R56 I didn't like Candy Necklace either. Can't quite put my finger on why. I was surprised to find that I really enjoyed Peppers, which opened with rap verses from Tommy Genesis (never heard of her before). U am picky when it comes to rap, but I thought the song was quite good and catchy.

r57 Yes, I don't do rap at all and I was kinda annoyed at first with just that one verse being repeated over and over again, but it just clicked after a couple of listens and now I'm enjoying it a lot. I love that she recorded and put in the song a short clip of what sounded like their meeting together. Wipeout!

Has anyone spilled the tea yet on what happened between Lana and her mother, or is that still under wraps? She's made it clear on her last two albums that they are very estranged, and has alluded to her mother being emotionally abusive to her when she was younger. There are photographs of them together in years past, but it seems like something soured in the last several years, and they now have absolutely nothing to do with each other. She is still very close-knit with her dad, sister, and brother—they seem to be the most important people in her life, as she is constantly photographed with them by paparazzi and has written a lot of songs about them. I've never read anything indicating that her parents are divorced, so I can't help but wonder what their family dynamic is like.

Yeah, that dynamic seems crazy to me. And she's her actual mom, not an evil stepmother or anything. I wonder if it's money related. Although her dad isn't poor, so that can't be it.

[quote] It's an Alice in Wonderland type of thing, isn't it?

Thus the initials AW.

Ooooh! Well, I feel so foolish right now.

I must be missing a gene or something, I don’t see anything wrong with the SNL performance. Yeah, she was a little frozen in place, but she sounded fine. The following week Kristen Wiig did a sendup of her on Weekend Update, even. Too soon, indeed, and for what?

R63 I am a fan but that performance was not good—and it wasn’t even because the singing was bad, it was just that it was all over the place. She was giving Shania Twain at one moment, and Shakira at another. It was lacking consistency, which led people to feel that she had no clue what she was doing. I think nerves were probably a contributing factor. She had stage fright early on but has become a much more relaxed performer with time, and it shows. Her performances are a lot more consistent now.

r63 It wasn't the best performance, but I still don't understand the sheer hysteria in its aftermath. I just saw a mob of people wanting to eat a newbie alive. The bloodlust was so over the top, Wiig nailed it when she said you'd think Lana clubbed a baby seal while singing the Taliban national anthem.

I mean, Twitter was just disgusting about it, and that was back when Twitter was still wholesome. It's like they wanted to strip her naked and parade her down the street or something. There was definitely something deeper going on there on a societal level. Doubt she'd get the same reception today because that sort of nastiness is associated with Trump and his deplorables now.

R59 on Fingertips, Lana asks who will be there for her after she dies: Father, Sister, Brother. Ouch!

Damn, good catch!

As far as Lanas go, I place her below Turner and Lang, but well above Wood.

R66 yikes, she really has publicly excoriated her mother. I can’t imagine them reconciling, which is kind of sad. Whatever happened must have been really bad.

Courtney Love was on Maron's podcast a few months ago. She is so damn fascinating! Equal parts train wreck, savant, and human meth vial.

And say what you will about Love, she's as street smart as they come. She knows her shit when it comes to music. And she raved about Lana. Called her an amazing artist. The real deal. I thought it was strange because I assumed Love would think Lana too pop or something.

"How is Lana Del Rey’s new album not a major topic?"

Because it's no longer 2011, OP.

R70 Courtney made some caustic noise rock in her day (Pretty on the Inside is one of the most brutal albums I can think of), but she has always been a closeted pop music fan who was not really so closeted about it. Celebrity Skin was her big swing at doing something that was pop with a heavy, dark glaze of rock and roll on it, and I think she succeeded. I think the truth is that she secretly always wanted to be a pop artist, but it was not in the cards for her, both because of her voice and her overall personality. She’s simply too hard-edged, even when she’s at her softest. She knew this, and went with what she was capable of doing—and she did a damn good job IMO. I’ve always found it kind of endearing.

She is a walking encyclopedia of pop culture and knows her shit, from the most obscure experimental/noise rock bands to Mariah Carey. It’s crazy. I’m not surprised that she is an admirer/confidant of Lana.

Courtney has been in Lana's corner ever since Lana covered Heart-Shaped Box back in 2012.

Photos of Lana with her mother are quite revealing to me. It’s partly the body language and maybe partly just the energy you can pick, but you can almost see Lana shrinking in her mother’s presence. You can see it in Patricia’s face in a number of pictures, she looks domineering and kind of tough, cold.

This is the most revealing one to me. It’s actually sad. They’re both smiling, and Lana is holding her mother, but it looks awkward and staged for the camera. Her mother for her part doesn’t seem to even want to touch her daughter, just look at her hands, left hand in particular. Why would you keep your hand closed like that when embracing someone? My guess is that’s she’s not somebody with any warmth or maternal instinct.

Holy shit, her mom oozes Type A personality in the photo at r74. I pictured her as a manic monster in my mind, not as a top dog. Now I'm even more curious as to what the issue is between them. I bet she's like the mom from Succession, you know the one played by Harriet Walter. All manipulation and snide remarks all the time, with the kids being a nuisance to her more than anything.

I love her albums and I haven't spent enough time yet on this new one but I'm sure I'll love it - they usually take a while to grow on me. I love to listen to them in hot baths. Always an other-worldly, dreamy quality to them, for me.

Though I hate the interludes, I never like interludes in albums.

"Like a groupie incognito posing as a real singer...life imitates art"....

R76 Both of her parents were ad execs in NYC. Seems little Elizabeth took a cue from them and marketed herself into a rock star.

The latest episode of the podcast, Pop Pantheon, looks a Lana's career and examines each of her albums minus this one which was released later that week. Well worth a listen.

r79 I mean, good for her. I wish I had marketing/branding knowledge from an early age, my life would have been a lot easier.

Stefani Germanotta and Michael Aday also marketed themselves into rock stars, story as old as time. Reg Dwight, too. Well, maybe not into a rock star, but certainly into something new.

She's not the first nor the last artist to be financed by her parents. The entire creative world is filled with wealth and privilege. If you think about it, who else has time and money to learn and develop music, study philosophy or invest in paintings and sculpture? It's not cheap. And it's an issue with our society and who runs the show. Not necessarily the fault of individuals who may benefit. I also think LDR has far more self-awareness than others of her background. The worse are the ones like Kid Rock who are rich kids who LARP as hillbillies.

But didn't Lana live in a trailer park? How much more can you LARP as a hillbilly than that?

Lana was SLUMMING as a rich girl in a trailer.

She was doing research for her art. You can hardly do Americana without having ever lived in a trailer park.

Why haven't you eldergays discussed her debut performance on Saturday Night Live, and her being born with a silver spoon in her mouth. These topics are so fascinating and we never talk about them on Datalounge.

By the way, I replaced the album cover with this recent photo from Variety. You're welcome to take it.

The millennial queen of sad is apparently ENGAGED?! Is this just a rumor, or has she corroborated it?

Numerous outlets are reporting it now, so I think they're satisfied with Billboard's sources.

This will end in tears. And a beautiful new album. He's quite handsome, though.

BUMP

Evan's one of those skinny dudes who loves to fuck fat chicks.

Wonder what happened to her and sexy/skanky Jack Donoghue? Maybe she decided jail visits weren’t the most romantic of dates (still disappointed there isn’t a song on her album called “Cook county department of corrections” because it would fit right in).

Hope she’s finally found a decent guy at last. As someone who tended to be attracted to really bad and incompatible relationships, I gotta believe there is hope.

I think people jumped the gun on that one and they were never really together. She was probably just doing research on cagemeat.

She's very tryhard with some of the cringest lyrics ever written. But every now and then she has some cool line or two and an interesting catchy melody

I mean, that's true for most singers.

"How is Lana Del Rey’s new album not a major topic?"

Because it's no longer 2011, OP

And yet you searched for this thread to post a reply. Rent-free in your mind.

[quote] Because it's no longer 2011, OP

No, it’s not, and she’s still selling a huge amount of records in 2023. Which is all the more an accomplishment given how uncommercial her new album is and how she has managed to ascend the charts despite basically not lifting a finger to promote it; no music videos, no performances, no appearances.

I like her but all of her albums sound the same.

Well, that's just crazy talk, she does experimental stuff all the time. Okay, maybe not on Chemtrails and Banisters.

SHe is a bore.

It's subtle, definitely not for an ADHD-addled mind.

R100 just lyrically. Musically all of her albums and all of her vocal phrasing is the same.

I feel she started off as somewhat of a novelty, an artist with a retro sound singing songs about things that made her happy in a melancholy way. She's been described as a woman "whose heart is bleeding, but she still manages to put dinner on the table". Her early albums were filled with skips, but since NFR, she seems to have taken a more serious turn and has worked with some people who really know how to get the best out of her. Her latest release is fucking brilliant, maybe a bit quiet, but brilliant. All of the elements of her early work that were brilliant, are still there, but they've been refined especially lyrically. She's not singing about being fucking crazy anymore because maybe she isn't. I mean, that was a recurring theme in her lyrics which I haven't heard in her past few albums. As a result, her work is much better and somewhat more authentic.

This album is thoroughly boring, nothing is catchy, nothing is tuneful.

MEH!

Sounds like she's been listening to Agnes Obel.

I like a few songs but eh. I miss when her songs were memorable and cinematic.

R99 It’s just her last 3 albums that sound the same.

NFR was her last truly great album.

Peppers is only memorable because of the “Hands on my knees Angelina Jolie” part, but I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean.