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Gay Chinese National Imprisoned For 15 Years Over Surrogacy

Front page story from last Sunday's NYT.

Seems sad all way round; for surrogate, child and Chinese man who just wanted to have a son.

To be clear Xu Wenjun has stuck with narrative that his "wife" cannot have children. But close friends tell another story.

"In Cambodian court testimony, Xu said his wife could not bear a child. But Xu’s friends, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of antagonizing the Cambodian authorities, said that his situation was more complicated: He had no wife and was open about being gay. Hun Daneth said Xu told her about his sexuality. LGBTQ couples cannot adopt in China, and gay or single individuals are precluded from surrogacy in most countries where that practice is legal."

Apparently gay Chinese have been flocking to Cambodia in good numbers over years for surrogacy services using eggs from Russian or Ukraine women.

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by Anonymousreply 51December 3, 2022 12:14 AM

Surrogacy is human farming. It should be illegal everywhere.

by Anonymousreply 1December 2, 2022 11:47 AM

Isn't gay illegal in their country?

by Anonymousreply 2December 2, 2022 12:20 PM

R2

China decriminalized homosexuality in 1997. Having sex in public and or prostitution is illegal, but that goes for both gays and straights.

OTOH there are few to nil civil rights protections for gays or lesbians. Same sex marriage is not legal and so on.

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by Anonymousreply 3December 2, 2022 12:27 PM

More...

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by Anonymousreply 4December 2, 2022 12:27 PM

This is basically going to another country and buying children.

by Anonymousreply 5December 2, 2022 12:30 PM

Love is where you find it for gay Chinese.

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by Anonymousreply 6December 2, 2022 12:33 PM

[quote] Surrogacy is human farming. It should be illegal everywhere.

The Cambodian secret police have chimed in...

by Anonymousreply 7December 2, 2022 12:35 PM

Surrogacy is a contract between two people. Why should the government get in the middle of what people want to do with their bodies. Willing women are providing a natural function that there is demand for.

Certainly there is often a wealth differential but show me a job that doesn't have one.

by Anonymousreply 8December 2, 2022 12:37 PM

[quote] This is basically going to another country and buying children.

You're actually get your own child.

by Anonymousreply 9December 2, 2022 12:37 PM

If Cambodia wants to make surrogacy illegal, make it illegal. Instead it's using human trafficking laws to imprison everyone involved. That's disgusting.

by Anonymousreply 10December 2, 2022 12:39 PM

[quote] Willing women are providing a natural function that there is demand for.

Women don't 'naturally' give birth to children who are not biologically related to them.

by Anonymousreply 11December 2, 2022 1:05 PM

Richard B. Vaughn, Esq., if this is the face of surrogacy I'm in!

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by Anonymousreply 12December 2, 2022 1:06 PM

Hot damn!

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by Anonymousreply 13December 2, 2022 1:07 PM

Join the fight!

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by Anonymousreply 14December 2, 2022 1:09 PM

Back on topic, attorney Rich Vaughn speaks to issues in Cambodia.

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by Anonymousreply 15December 2, 2022 1:11 PM

Last one...

I mean who wouldn't want to have this man's children?

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by Anonymousreply 16December 2, 2022 1:24 PM

[quote] Willing women are providing a natural function that there is demand for.

"Willing"?? Uh, no. Exploited improverished, third-world women whose sole source of income is their womb.

by Anonymousreply 17December 2, 2022 1:32 PM

[quote] Surrogacy is a contract between two people. Why should the government get in the middle of what people want to do with their bodies. Willing women are providing a natural function that there is demand for. Certainly there is often a wealth differential but show me a job that doesn't have one.

r8 Do you also advocate for organ trafficking, using those same words? (Btw I do understand the desire for a child from my own DNA but I don't see how it's different from organ trafficking which people seem to have a different attitude)

by Anonymousreply 18December 2, 2022 1:35 PM

"Willing women are providing a natural function that there is demand for."

Isn't that what the *other* sort of women have been claiming for centuries?

by Anonymousreply 19December 2, 2022 1:41 PM

[quote] "Willing"?? Uh, no. Exploited impoververished, third-world women whose sole source of income is their womb

How about third-world factory workers, call center staff, Apple workers...

How about first world militaries.

ALL exploited and impoverished. Yet no one ever says dissolve the army.

by Anonymousreply 20December 2, 2022 1:52 PM

[quote] Do you also advocate for organ trafficking, using those same words?

Sure. It's my kidney and I should be able to do what I want with it. It selling it allows me and my family to survive, it's better than dying

by Anonymousreply 21December 2, 2022 1:53 PM

Sadly, the world and society makes choices to keep certain groups impoverished. And then you also take away any ability to use their bodies to make an income. Is that fair?

by Anonymousreply 22December 2, 2022 1:54 PM

[quote] Isn't that what the *other* sort of women have been claiming for centuries?

And that's why prostitution should be legal.

by Anonymousreply 23December 2, 2022 1:55 PM

Why rob poor women a means of making money?

by Anonymousreply 24December 2, 2022 1:55 PM

[quote] Women don't 'naturally' give birth to children who are not biologically related to them.

They naturally give birth, Only they can produce that function.

by Anonymousreply 25December 2, 2022 1:56 PM

R22 and R24 it's not much and it's not an easy procedure to go through. I suggest looking into what surrogacy entails physically and mentally. I feel like we have a lack of studies to expose how bad surrogacy really is for women. The procedures are harsh (using potentially cancer causing drugs to drop eggs), can cause infertility, and it does not pay well enough.

R25 Child birth still comes with a risk of dying. Even besides that risk, every pregnancy comes with the potential for lifelong problems. Human pregnancies are not easy on the body. The head is too big, and the fetus evolved to do something other mammal fetuses can't do -- trap directly into the blood stream, manipulating the body's system. That's why women end up with pelvic floor issues, diabetes, autoimmune diseases (yeah yeah, lol from DL users that don't believe in them), etc.

by Anonymousreply 26December 2, 2022 2:01 PM

Chinese gay sons are worse off than Chinese daughters. And closeted gay sons tend to be more self-deluded, manipulative and egomaniac.

by Anonymousreply 27December 2, 2022 2:04 PM

[quote] How about third-world factory workers, call center staff, Apple workers...

R20 NONE of whom are paid for using their wombs.

by Anonymousreply 28December 2, 2022 2:04 PM

I think surrogacy is wrong. It's another way for the wealthy to exploit the poor, but worse than usual. This is asking women to take on a serious health risk, for 9 months, too birth a baby that isn't biologically theirs. They are just starting to find there might be consequences to child born from these procedures too (IVF techniques).

I won't fault anyone that's already done this for themselves and has their children, but I don't think it's something that should be encouraged or celebrated. It's very backwards. It's creating humans to go up for sale, by using other humans as incubators. It's a gross concept morally.

I just don't agree that people are entitled to having children, as harsh as that sounds.

by Anonymousreply 29December 2, 2022 2:06 PM

R28 exactly. It crosses the line for ethics. This isn't a job, using your actions to perform a task. This is using another human beings body, for almost a year, 24/7, to buy another custom made human being. Human beings shouldn't be ordered up like designer dog breeds. Other countries have banned it for a reason... Even India. It got so bad there, they were imprisoning these women, shackling them to beds, until the baby came, only to whisk them away and still leave these women in poverty.

I'm not sure what the solution should be. I understand wanting children. This just isn't the way to do that. If you can't get a well off western woman to do it, or a female friend, that should tell you something about how it's not complicated than what it's being made out to be. The entire body physically changes, many times for worse. I can't imagine expecting this from anyone else to satisfy a want in my life.

by Anonymousreply 30December 2, 2022 2:14 PM

r1 LOL, if anything, he should've done it in the good ol' US of A like Anderson Cooper.

by Anonymousreply 31December 2, 2022 2:25 PM

Anderson Cooper's surrogate was richly compensated for the first son and IIRC second also provided ample financial rewards.

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by Anonymousreply 32December 2, 2022 2:44 PM

I'm confused why they would use Russian and Ukrainian women as surrogates. Wouldn't this mark their kids out as being different? Han Chinese value having a homogenous culture. I would think biracial kids would have a tough time in China.

by Anonymousreply 33December 2, 2022 2:53 PM

Or is it that that they use Chinese eggs and only Russian/Ukrainian wombs?

by Anonymousreply 34December 2, 2022 3:01 PM

^ Using Cambodian third world body/womb + Russian/Ukrainian eggs.

I don't know about non-Han Chinese eggs. Chinese women aren't willing?

by Anonymousreply 35December 2, 2022 3:08 PM

R34

From original NYT piece that much of linked article in OP was sourced.

"Perfect Fertility Center, or P.F.C., a surrogacy agency registered in the British Virgin Islands, showed rare sympathy for L.G.B.T.Q. intended parents, promising babies via Cambodia, Mexico and the United States. The company’s website is illustrated with photos of same-sex couples cradling babies.

P.F.C. was founded by Tony Yu, who turned to Cambodian surrogates for his own children. Mr. Yu, who is openly gay, said Cambodian lawyers assured him that his agency was legal.

It was a multinational operation that spanned continents. Mr. Yu partnered with a fertility clinic in Phnom Penh run by a Vietnamese person. There, a German fertility specialist trained Cambodian doctors. An Indian logistics expert flew in with eggs harvested from donors.

In 2017, Mr. Xu signed a contract with P.F.C., agreeing to pay $75,000 for surrogacy in Cambodia, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times.

Mr. Xu visited Ms. Hun Daneth at the luxury villa. He told her that the egg donor was a Russian model, and he later showed Ms. Hun Daneth and her husband photographs of a white woman with wavy hair standing next to a sports car.

Mr. Yu, the agency founder, said that many of its egg donors came from Russia, Ukraine and South Africa. The intended fathers were Chinese, and many were gay.

“Mixed-race children are popular with our clients,” said Mr. Yu."

Long story short for Chinese or other Asian men (gay only?) and perhaps straights as well bi-racial children are the "in" thing.

Eastern European men and women are known for their physical beauty. It is one reason white Western Europeans, Americans and others who want "white" children turn to Ukraine or Russia as first choice if they cannot afford or get to USA.

Part of the work of hunky Richard B. Vaughn, Esq, also involves matching egg donors to couples (gay and straight) or singles (ditto).

NPH, Lance Bass, Andersen Cooper, along with many others who use surrogates don't necessarily want that woman's gene pool. They would be happy enough if say a black woman carried their child to term and gave birth, but actual eggs often come from another woman, and she is usually white/European.

Gays of course must use an egg donor from somewhere since there isn't a female "spouse" or whatever to provide eggs for in vitro fertilization.

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by Anonymousreply 36December 2, 2022 3:12 PM

A few heartwarming stories...

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by Anonymousreply 37December 2, 2022 5:43 PM

Russia is set to be next country that bans surrogacy to outsiders.

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by Anonymousreply 38December 2, 2022 5:45 PM

Just so some of you know, American military service members may have surrogacy healthcare expenses covered by Tricare.

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by Anonymousreply 39December 2, 2022 5:47 PM

"I just don't agree that people are entitled to having children, as harsh as that sounds.."

Matter is debatable I suppose, but then you realize you're condemning gay men not to be fathers of their own biological children.

Then there is matter that adoption is neither easy, certain, nor even an option for gay or straight men who are single or even couples.

by Anonymousreply 40December 2, 2022 9:21 PM

R40 No one is condemning them. Access to females bodies is NOT a right.

by Anonymousreply 41December 2, 2022 9:24 PM

R41

My dear no one is forcing these women to lie on their backs. Some willingly go through surrogacy two or more times.

Andersen Cooper isn't first nor last gay or straight man, couple (ditto) to use same surrogate over and over.

by Anonymousreply 42December 2, 2022 10:21 PM

[Quote] it's not an easy procedure to go through. I suggest looking into what surrogacy entails physically and mentally. I feel like we have a lack of studies to expose how bad surrogacy really is for women. The procedures are harsh (using potentially cancer causing drugs to drop eggs), can cause infertility, and it does not pay well enough.

I’m sure surrogates are informed of all the risks and they make their decision accordingly

by Anonymousreply 43December 2, 2022 11:12 PM

[Quote] Child birth still comes with a risk of dying.

So does joining the army. So does driving a car. Should we ban those?

by Anonymousreply 44December 2, 2022 11:13 PM

[Quote] NONE of whom are paid for using their wombs.

What’s so magical about using a womb over using your whole body to work?

by Anonymousreply 45December 2, 2022 11:14 PM

[Quote] I think surrogacy is wrong. It's another way for the wealthy to exploit the poor, but worse than usual. This is asking women to take on a serious health risk, for 9 months, too birth a baby that isn't biologically theirs. They are just starting to find there might be consequences to child born from these procedures too (IVF techniques).

When are any of these surrogates forced to be surrogates?

by Anonymousreply 46December 2, 2022 11:15 PM

Interestingly, far more straight couples use surrogates than gay couples.

It’s not going anywhere

by Anonymousreply 47December 2, 2022 11:16 PM

R46 When people are forced to make a choice or risk poverty then it isn’t really much of a choice.

by Anonymousreply 48December 2, 2022 11:37 PM

"Interestingly, far more straight couples use surrogates than gay couples."

Well they would, wouldn't they? Gays make up a statistically small part of overall population so they wouldn't be hugely represented in many things.

by Anonymousreply 49December 2, 2022 11:43 PM

You want baby, you put it in wife! You no have, you find! Like Miss Cameron say, NO GAY!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 50December 3, 2022 12:07 AM

[Quote] When people are forced to make a choice or risk poverty then it isn’t really much of a choice.

Like EVERY OTHER JOB, including joining the army

by Anonymousreply 51December 3, 2022 12:14 AM
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