When and Why did ROSEMARY'S BABY become a camp classic ?

I don't think the entire movie is a camp classic, only the final scenes, and that's because of the many imitators that came afterward.

RB is a very good movie and much more than a camp classic

I think it's both R1

Bet the devil had a big cock.

MIA FARROW had been a gay & DL-fave for years...until the past few years. So there's that.

I don't know about camp classic, but Guy is a bullying pig and the Castevets are *so* annoying, it makes you understand why the girl Rosemary met in the laundry room jumped off the roof. Rosemary is pliable (up to the very end) and daft to the point of being ridiculous. Yes, she's a catholic girl from the mid-west, but that doesn't entirely explain how dim she is.

"Yes, she's a catholic girl from the mid-west, but that doesn't entirely explain how dim she is."

Just like Mia herself!

The movie is laced with black humor, not camp.

One strength is the casting and performances of the elderly neighbors. Ruth Gordon’s clipped, harsh pragmatism and dismissiveness made an excellent parody of of nosy, bossy neighbors. In real life, she could be as dismissive. Late in life she attended actors workshops and panels, and would abrasively dismiss all the aspirations of participants. “You think you can make it as an actor? Psh…forget about it!”. I know some under-employed egomaniacs who took acting classes, and more than a few had the same experience of being crushed and demoralized by Gordon. Funny enough, she was absolutely right. These same people, 30 years later, are still trying to perform, on podcasts and Patreon. It’s really sad.

In her autobiography, Mia wrote that after the rape scene, the actor playing Satan began showering her with compliments and told her what a privilege it had been to be in a scene with her.

Mia is hardly from the mid-west, she's an LA girl, beverly hills, precisely

Never understood why Mia Farrow was not at least nominated for a Best Actress Oscar.

Were the Academy members fearful of the wrath of Sinatra if she had been, since they had divorced and he had tried vehemently to have her leave the production during the filming?

Mia's a midwest girl just like Ronan is a top.

A good deal of camp is making fun of women’s roles in society and Rosemary’s Baby and The Exorcist are about about that, so it cross-polinated. Roman Polanski’s European sensibility also made RB a campier affair than if it had been done by an American director.

you've answered yourself, R11. If the movie had been finished on time, and Mia had ran back home, she would have had an oscar

I’ll add that Rosemary’s Baby and The Exorcist are both about bourgeois manners, which gives them a campier sensibility than something like The Shining, which is not about bourgeois people.

I saw the shining for the first time last summer, and was shocked at how bad it was. Just crap. bad acting, bad photography, bad script, bad everything

I found it to be an abomination!

The Shining is stunningly photographed. Your opinion is obviously worthless now.

because you've been cut in the editing room, no doubt dear ?

[quote]Never understood why Mia Farrow was not at least nominated for a Best Actress Oscar.

she's jinxed and hardly a nomination anywhere for many of her superb performances in Woody Allen movies - meanwhile Sorvino who can't act and cant act funny won an Oscar for playing stupid in a Woody role.

She had it too easy and was never forgiven in Hollywood. Maureen was fabulously connected. Cukor and louella as god parents, Maureen pulls strings to put her in a Broadway show Vivien makes one phone call and she gets a contract at fox, she gets break after break, a golden globe for her first movie role, the lead in a serie, then Frank marries her, she's cast in the most anticipated movie of the year...they wouldn't give her the AA on top of that. I remember seeing an old interview with Previn and julie andrews where she says she knew she would get the part in the audition room for her stage debut in "the importance of being earnest", and felt sorry for the other girls.

[quote]The Shining is stunningly photographed. Your opinion is obviously worthless now.

This is very true; particularly the opening scene, following the car through the mountains looks amazing on hi-def TVs. Jack & Shelley aren't everyone's cup of tea, but visually the movie still holds up.

I kind of like watching RB for a time when NYC was affordable for an aspiring actor & a stay at home wife, though after a recent re-watch, I was appalled that they painted that beautiful dark wood paneling white. I'll bet the Devil was horrified too

I saw The Shining last year at the gloriously seedy Texas Theater in Dallas (where Oswald was arrested) and the picture was so clear it was like you could walk right through it. If there's one thing you can't complain about in The Shining, it's the magnificent cinematography.

well i saw it on TV and it was crap, so maybe it was the TV set, but I find it way below RB in terms of cinematography

[quote] In her autobiography, Mia wrote that after the rape scene, the actor playing Satan began showering her with compliments and told her what a privilege it had been to be in a scene with her.

Still in-character, I see. The devil would say that, wouldn’t he?

[quote] Mia wrote

sure, Mia, everybody tells you what a privilege it is to breathe the same air as you

Everybody loves Mia

R23, if you don't have a 4k bluray player, I highly encourage you to get one. Just saying! The Shining is out on 4k.

I sort of disagree with the premise that Rosemary’s Baby is a camp classic.

R29, it's not. The humor is intentional so wouldn't that automatically disqualify it as being camp?

It is, someone even made dolls of them alongside Baby Jane, Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte and Hairspray.

I find this a million times more unsettling and scarier than Rosemary's baby :

[quote] The humor is intentional

I'm not so sure

Her bizarre, affected mid-atlantic accent is so off-putting.

^ We don't see a problem

Rosemary's Baby is masterfully directed by Roman Polanski and is further elevated by a strong screenplay and excellent performances from its leads and supporting cast. It's a serious film with about ambition and fanaticism, it employs dark humor, but it isn't camp.

If you can't appreciate it now, watch it again in a few years. The pacing, cinematography and performances (Polanski made use of underemployed character actors to great effect) are just about peerless in this genre. If you think about it as a meditation on ambition and fanaticism, you'll get what makes it great. Nothing great is flawless and there are missteps, but this is a masterwork.

The Shining has camp elements that Kubrick uses to highlight the psychology of isolation, but the core is a deadly serious take on blame and rage. It was not critically successful when it premiered but is now a classic for a reason. Several good reasons. The film versions of Rosemary's Baby and The Shining both elevate the source material.

Interesting bit of trivia: Both Polanski and Kubrick wanted Redford for the roles played by John Cassavetes and Jack Nicholson. In both cases, I think the right actor landed in the respective roles. Polanski offered Rosemary to Tuesday Weld, and she turned it down. Whatever privileges form the basis of Mia Farrow's career, it's hard to believe anyone could beat her performance in this film.

Anyway, to each his own, but I hope anyone dismissing these films gives them a second chance.

R36, those who don't think the humor is intentional should watch Bitter Moon. That movie is insane but also darkly funny (and disturbing). Very underrated movie.

[quote] it's hard to believe anyone could beat her performance in this film.

Because oscars are based on merit ! (Regardless of the fact that you can't compare apples and oranges. As Bacall said, at least if they were in competition in the same role, it would make some sense)

[quote] should watch Bitter Moon.

perhaps not ? what a boring, vulgar turd that was. Thanks, but no thanks

since when is "camp classic " derogatory ? R36, are you faye Dunaway ?

Mia and Prudence fucked The Beatles at an ashram.

Another who disagreed that it's a camp classic. There's some element of that perhaps in that the film has memorable likes that can be quoted and people who are not exactly cinephiles get the reference and laugh: there's dark humor in the film, but taken out of context, some of the lines of dialogue fall into "he has his father's eyes" territory of too easy yet always funny. Camp-like in a sense, but not the same as Helen Lawson's toilet wig scene in Valley of the Dolls - which has no value beyond camp.

Because I follow real estate too much, I often laugh recalling one of the opening lines in the script, from Mr. Nicholas in the elevator ride to show Guy and Rosemary a newly available apartment:

[quote]Originally the smallest apartment was a nine. They've been broken up into fours, fives. and sixes. Seven E is a four that was originally the back part of a ten. It has the original master bedroom for its living room, another bedroom for its bedroom, and two servants rooms thrown together for its dining room or second bedroom. Do you have children?·

Ruth Gordon was, for me, the real star of RB.

[quote]Because Oscars are based on merit ! (Regardless of the fact that you can't compare apples and oranges. As Bacall said, at least if they were in competition in the same role, it would make some sense)

Agreed. When I wrote "her performance is hard to beat" I wasn't referring to the Oscars but rather other speculative casting choices"

The Oscars only reflect industry popularity at a specific moment in time, and they are simply a reflection of that temporal popularity, not a reflection of the work itself. You correctly point out that any comparison is futile.

R42's quote is the mother of all tasteful friends thread

R44 anyone who's ever attended a producer's meeting knows that Oscars are part of the distribution deals. as in "I buy your picture if so and so gets the AA/Palme d'Or/ Golden bear..."

Camp doesn't have to be intentional, and Rosemary's Baby has the unintentional variety in spades - Mia's ghastly clothes, the ghastly 60s hair, the colors, the incredibly silly storyline treated seriously, and Mia's overwrought hysterical performance.

He's my baby AND the incarnation of Evil that will destroy the world!!!

[quote]Camp doesn't have to be intentional, and Rosemary's Baby has the unintentional variety in spades/ the incredibly silly storyline treated seriously

thank you, you got it right

Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist also tap into the whole Douglas Sirk/"women's melodrama" genre which is the font of midcentury camp.

In his autobiography, Robert Wagner wrote that he tested for the role of Guy Woodhouse and was disappointed when he lost out to John Cassavetes.

Too many good lines to pass up.

Mia's shocking weight loss in the 2nd half of the movie should be Oscar*-worthy. The Academy likes when people gain or lose weight for a role.

How could it be anything BUT camp when they had Clara from "The Andy Griffith Show" as one of the witches?

Yes the use of Old Hollywood character actors also gives the film a camp sensibility.

Polanski wanted to show how familiar and commonplace evil can be- right next door.

No he didn't.

"Yes the use of Old Hollywood character actors also gives the film a camp sensibility." - Yes, just like the "waxworks" in Sunset Boulevard.

“Rosemary’s Baby” is cinematic perfection.

I read Son of Rosemary during lockdown. Christ, what a piece of shit.

I've never seen it as camp. Maybe it's Ruth Gordon's performance. People say the same thing about Carrie, because of Piper Laurie's over the top performance. Both are still very effective.

“Tannis anyone?”

It would have been a hell of a lot campier if William Castle, the rights holder, had gotten his wish to direct.

Actually I think the brilliance of the movie is what a friend and I always say: Watch it with someone and it’s funny as Hell, watch it alone and it’s incredibly creepy.

R54, I found it deliciously creepy seeing Clara from Andy Griffith as a witch, too, and came here to mention her! I also wanted to mention beloved wisecracker Patsy Kelly from the old short Thelma Todd comedies playing the awful Laura-Louise. R43, I also thought Ruth Gordon was the highlight of the movie!

Two smaller points: 1) Guy was so repulsive right from the start, even before making his deal with the devil) that it was unbelievable to me that Rosemary ever loved him at all. 2) Maurice Evans as Hutch and Sidney Blackmer as Roman were both great, but I thought there was too much of a surface resemblance between them (both being handsome, sophisticated, older, white men) and this likely caused confusion for those viewers struggling to differentiate the multiple characters being introduced.

Guy was originally offered to Robert Redford. Cassavetes’ casting is one of the movie’s failings because he radiates sinisterness.

On the old Armie Hammer threads we used to comment he would have made the perfect Guy Woodhouse. Little did we know he had more in common with the Trench Sisters.

Weren't they trying to get Jane Fonda for Rosemary, too? I have to admit it'd be hilarious to have her and Redford in this and market it like a follow up to Barefoot in the Park. Imagine everyone's horror when they see what it's actually about.

Evans wanted Mia because of her ubiquous presence in fan magazines at the time. He thought her name would put bums in the seats. Can you imagine Mia Farrow being more bankable than Jane Fonda ? She was riding incredibly high at the time

ubiquitous, sorry...hic

I can see RJ Wagner as Guy.

I hadn't heard that they wanted Redford for Guy. I think it would have been a great choice! I respect Cassavetes, but he's too cynical and dissolute-seeming from the get-go. It would have been better for the audience to be comfortable with him as a nice young man and be all the more shocked when you find out what he did.

They wanted Redford and Tutu Weld. At least Polanski did. He didn't know Mia. nobody knew her in Europe. Evans told him to watch Peyton Place, and Polanski hired her without an audition

I don't think OP knows what camp is.

I think Sydney Blackmer is really bad in the last scene and kills the ending. he's chanting. suddenly we're in THE WITCHES

what I could never understand is why the carpenters and painters who are hired by Roro to refurbish the place don't tell her that there's a door in the cupboard leading directly to the neighbours' apt . She even make shelves for it , how could she not notice ?

I don't agree that Cassavetes was wrong for the part. You know Guy is ambitious, but who would ever think he was *that* ambitious?

Beanie should be cast as Rosemary in the remake.

IRL, most sinister guys look sinister, and the girls who go with them are dumb as fuck.

[quote]Her bizarre, affected mid-atlantic accent is so off-putting.

It's not an affectation - she'd been to boarding school in England and had once had a completely English accent.

is the lady in blue a "Bouvier"? She's got a resemblance in name, profile and vocals to Jackie O

Patsy Kelly

She was HIGH-stair-ICK-ul

^Laura Louise

It's pretty obvious R73 doesn't know what camp is.

Mia's parents were both British, she was raised at the sacred heart in England, she holds dual citizenship, and was one of the first brave heroes to declare they were leaving the country when Trump was elected, and did it;..Oh, wait

John Farrow was Australian and Maureen O’Sullivan was Irish

R85, John Farrow was a notorious womanizer who cheated on wife Maureen O’Sullivan blatantly.

[quote]Mia's parents were both British, she was raised at the sacred heart in England, she holds dual citizenship,

no they weren't, she wasn't raided there she went for a few years - I doubt she has a British passport.

you is FUNNY, gurl.

I think a few people round here need to do some reading up

Bitter Moon is my favorite Rom-Com.

Did anyone here ever fantasize about getting plowed by John Cassavetes?

Who says it’s a camp classic besides the OP? I think it’s just an entertaining and we’ll made horror film.

“The carpet, the CARPET…!!

It was never a camp classic. The dark humor was very intentional. The OP is confusing humor with camp. Rosemary's Baby has some great acting in it by Ruth Gordon,Ralph Bellamy, John Cassevetes,Maurice Evans and Sidney Blackmer. So many camp films have shit performances all over the place. Polanski was no Robert Aldrich. The drag queeny performances in his films were pure cheese. Crawford,Davis and others were unintentional pawns in a camp quest. Kim Novak? Probably the campiest performance in film history.

Kim Novak in a cat fight/cuntfest. I think she won.....

Mia Farrow was brilliant in Rosemary's Baby. Her performance has stood the test of time. What makes her performance so special is that Polanski and Farrow allow you to believe there is a possibility that Rosemary may be crazy or experiencing delusions. The nervous energy Farrow brings to the film works for her character and the film, especially in the last 30 minutes when Rosemary starts to panic and desperately seeks help.

I think there are some things in it that are funny (particularly Ruth Gordon’s kooky performance, and some of the line deliveries “a chalky under taste!”), but I don’t think it’s really camp either. It doesn’t go far enough to qualify IMO—most of it is firmly rooted in the paranoia, fear, and isolation of the main character to be any fun. It’s a very oppressive movie to watch because it leaves you feeling utterly helpless and doomed—like the world’s closing in on you. The book has a similar power to it. It’s a very unnerving read.

[quote]Did anyone here ever fantasize about getting plowed by John Cassavetes?

I am (unfortunately) attracted to bad and dangerous men like filings to a magnet, and John Cassavetes in this is my idea of an 11.

John Cassavetes is very sexy. I think the fact that he is kinda shady made him hotter. Even when he played an outright villain (The Fury) he was still sexy.

*was very sexy

I disagree. "Rosemary's Baby" is pretty much considered a masterpiece and I'm not sure many at all see it as "camp". Suspenseful films almost always have comic moments to break the tension.

When did it become a camp classic? Immediately.

When I first saw it I thought "All of them witches" was some hillbilly thing — "All of them thar goshdang witches!"

Can anyone identify Mia's makeup in the photo at OP?

It's very natural, but I still think it's makeup.

I particularly love the lip and cheek colors. They are red/orange based rather than pink. Just mascara on the eyes?

There are many moments in the film that make clear Roman Polanski was aware of how campy the material is. the big tip off is when the coven members tiptoe behind Rosemary in the hallway when she's on the phone, but others include:

"I heard you were bitten by a mouse!"

"All of them! Witches! **pause** 'All... of... Them... Witches!' **nervously giggles**"

"You name a place, I've been there!"

"Nothing... just messy, that's all."

"I've been to Vidal Sassoon..."

And my favorite of all: "Hey, let's make love."

People, you need to read something other than wikipedia. Mia Farrow was not always raised in California, she went to a convent in Spain first, and then in England for many years . She had dual citizenship. She said so many times in interviews and books. Maureen was British, and the father was a subject of the queen too. Miais thefirst american in the family, she's even been awarded that stupid medal for first generation aericans who achieve shit

[quote] People, you need to read something other than wikipedia. Mia Farrow was not always raised in California, she went to a convent in Spain first, and then in England for many years .

How dare they be so unlettered as not to know such important facts as the details of Mia Farrow's schooling and childhood!

You, my friend, are a true scholar.

thanks R106.;;;at least one understands....appalling

"I can see RJ Wagner as Guy"

And Ira Levin wrote "A Kiss Before Dying" too.

Shame that RJ's dark side was not explored, he could have been a contender, he was a very convincing murderer