How does one convince a youngish man that I'm not his sugar daddy? Not a humble brag...

0/10, Do better 🙄

cool story brah

Need pics.

^ For the first time I'm going to say, "not really"

Ask Richard Madden.

I call it subtle grifting because the older gay is always expected to pay as a default mode, so you have to create several workarounds to avoid the bill always falling into your lap.

What worked for me when I was single was to be more deliberate and proactive with how dates and going out are set up. Going to a group brunch with other couples, while being seated you quickly say, “We’ll each have separate checks” to the waiter before sitting down so he is presented with his own check. Group dating sets this up where he really cannot argue about having to pay in front of others- without making himself look bad. It also proactively reigns in drinking or ambitious ordering behavior.

Also, if I was going to a club with an expensive door entry, you call and say, “I’ll meet you inside at 9”, or even better, “I’m here already, see you in a bit!”

I blame the parents.

^ If you can't afford the game perhaps you shouldn't play

R7, I never dated outside my capabilities to attract a man, paid for sex, or dated anyone more than 5 years younger than myself.

All bets are off if you are ugly or more than 10 years his senior.

^ You don't make any sense, if you're dating in your lane why do you need a repertoire of devious workarounds to avoid picking up the tab? Do you date a lot of unemployed gentlemen within your age group?

Not workarounds, but assumptions by self absorbed people- if you’re older and always pick up the check, it’s assumed you always will. Presenting two checks disarms this natural assumption. I also use group dating to see if the man I’m interested in is a whore- I’d get a friend to gently but firmly hit on him while I’m in the bathroom, my friend swiping his eyebrow a sign when I get back means that he failed.

There’s a series of tests when dating, the one where you unlock the passenger side car door and if he doesn’t think to unlock the other side for you is a good one, there’s variations of this, like “forgot my wallet” and see if he has the wherewithal to pay himself.

It’s a little more difficult with technology nowadays, but you get the idea!

Sometimes to avoid being taken advantage of requires you to proactively brighten the boundaries.

^ Sounds too complicated for me. I date within my peer group and taking turns picking up the tab seems to work best. Although it's not a hard, fast rule, but if you have a thing for the youngsters, be prepared to pay

R11 I agreed with this approach right up to getting taken advantage of someone I’d been invested in for awhile and getting my heart broken by misplaced trust.

Also, I say “test”, but it’s common again and again to miss out on subtle red flags when they’re devastatingly handsome, have an amazing body, or amazing sex.

Remember, the best narcissist has carefully honed his irresistible charm and gaslighting is an art form.

Even if you have an hardon, never ignore a nagging conscience telling you something’s wrong.

It’s often not what they say, but what they DON”T say.

R11 Sounds like multiple dates with the same person don't happen often for you

^ Actually just the opposite. Long term dating is really the only place where taking turns paying works. I've been dating a guy for a couple of years and that's how we work it

The secret is not to fuck anyone, including young men, who expect you to pick up the tab.

Unless you're Santa.

I’m willing to bet every gay man in a long term relationship recognizes and has been put through several tests before committing to one man for the rest of his life. I have.

There’s a taut “script” and reams of expectations we and our friends follow while dating, and if it’s true love- somewhere along the line the script completely falls apart. Mishap, test, whatever…

If you’re lucky, it reveals the truth of the person underneath the surface- because that’s the one you want to fall in love with!

[quote]There’s a taut “script” and reams of expectations we and our friends follow while dating

Jesus. That sounds like the Boys In The Band or a set of uptight and passé Upper East Side queens. The types that once demanded a French vocubulary and and an ironed polo shirt, or a big dick.

R17, decades ago, I dated a stunning fitness trainer from New York sports club, and was sitting in a bar and over about half an hour- had the slow dawning horror that he’d slept with pretty much everyone in the room, including the ugly old ones.

So yeah, expectations are important, lol.

R16 = the embodiment of Carrie Bradshaw.

Wants the social equivalent of the trials if Hercules.

Deluded

Is there 'The Rules' for gay men?

[quote]I’d get a friend to gently but firmly hit on him while I’m in the bathroom, my friend swiping his eyebrow a sign when I get back means that he failed.

I don't believe this is true. I don't actually believe you get "dates". And if you're playing these kinds of childish games at your age, you should be embarrassed. Your "dates" should think you have terrible taste in friends and see that as a red flag.

But again, you're an admitted game player. I think this is just a fantasy you made up.

Troll

Pick them up in an old shitbox car or even better old work truck. Borrow something suitable off a friend if needs be. An old beater wagon with some tools and/or a lawnmower in the back will demonstrate you aint sugar daddy material. Dress down, no flash suits shoes watches and such.

You'll soon know if they want you for your personality, character and body. Or your money

Too much game-playing. If I have money that's part of who I am. Some guys with a lot of money don't really care if the guys they date are after some. As long as the relationship is mutually beneficial, what difference does it make?

The problem is not them. It's YOU! If you don't want him just tell him. If you do want him, then be prepared to pay. Them's the rules.

[Quote]Actually, I'm the hot one in this equation

If you're so hot, why are you picking up and trying to take advantage of a guy who is drugged out of his mind. And you're disappointed that he couldn't get it up? Maybe it wasn't the drugs. Maybe he sobered up and just wasn't into you.

And 31 aint young. He's old enough to have his shit together. If he is still getting so high that he can't function sexually at 31 then you are either dealing with someone who has to get high just to stand the sight of you, or he is an addict. Either way, he is not relationship material. You are not in a "relationship" with him.

You seem like so many old guys on the dating apps who ONLY want to date guys 18 to 35 but then have the audacity to get mad when he ACTS 18 -35.

You don't have the right to get angry when you seek relationships with people who are incompatible with you and they turn out to be "incompatible." LOL

A young guy may go out with you but he doesn't have the lived experience to understand why you don't wanna check into a Super 8 or eat McDonalds or spend the day playing video games. He does those things because that's what kids his age do and what he can AFFORD. Dating him will cost YOU more!

Also, think about it. When you were 20 years old, would you have wanted to be in a sexual "relationship" with your grandfather or anyone his age? LOL Imagine trying to explain to your friends or your parents (who are probably younger than you) why you're hanging around this old fart.

And don't flatter yourself, While some may be gold diggers who want your money, most guys that age are just trying to figure out who they are.

If you are into young guys and are able to find one who is looking to explore a little role play (very rare - the guys who claim to want daddies are mostly just fantasizing and have no interest in following through - it is common for guys that age to fantasize about many things that they will NEVER do), or more likely find one drunk enough, high enough or maybe emotionally damaged enough to sleep with you, then be grateful. Don't look for anything beyond that. THEY DON'T WANT YOU! LOL

You should be old enough to know that you cannot build a relationship on sex (especially when he is not sexually attracted to you). Relationships are about more than looks. It must ALSO include commonality. Your money is not enough to keep him. He will eventually figure out a way to get his own money or find another man with more money who he may or may not be interested in. Either way, he is moving on.

You're just a speed bump. Accept it and be prepared to open your wallet. That's all baked in if you want to date the young guns.

OP, what I am not understanding here is why you still have this person in your life?

If this person is who you describe, then why not cut it off after these initial, negative experiences?

Personally, I’m all about going dutch for the beginning of the relationship.

If it lasts, then alternating on who pays for what and when, is the way to go, or just continue going dutch.

If a person you’re dating doesn’t make as much money as you do, keep in mind that they may not be able to financially go Dutch with you, or pay alternatively, for dates that are at the same level of dates you are able to pay for.

But I’m not sure that any of this matters anyhow.

They’re high and under the influence, they’re not any good in bed, they’re not aware that generosity goes both ways, regardless of a difference in incomes, etc., etc.

What’s the point?

Just let them go and move on.

I have a coworker I hang out with daily. We’re not romantic at all, and it’s strictly friendship.

Earlier this week, he took me to a pricey place for lunch. I advised him that I couldn’t afford lunch there. He answered that it wasn’t a problem, he was willing to cover me. The following day I immediately insisted that I pick up the tab at a less pricey spot, however, I wanted to return his kindness, because that’s what you do in friendships and romantic relationships, as well.

I plan on making some awesome lunches next week, in order to save money, and I’m going to make a few of these lunches for him as well. He’s a really good guy, and I’m fortunate to have found a kind and funny soul for what may turn out to be a lifelong friendship.

Treating people who are good people and are in your life well, is essential. I’m VERY picky as to whom I allow to get close to me, and I recognize I found a really good person who is now my friend.

I tend to look at romantic relationships, in the same way I look at my friendships, which is one of the reasons why I don’t start off with romantic partners, by immediately getting sexually involved with potential, romantic partners.

I prefer to get to know someone I’m physically attracted to and who may be someone I end up being romantically involved with, as a friend, first. I usually have a pretty good idea who I’m dealing with, after 5-6 dates. From there, it either turns sexual, or we remain friends or go out separate ways.

Perhaps don’t sleep with someone you’re into, immediately, and see how that goes.

But OP, this guy in particular, sounds like a huge dud. Let it go and move on to healthier and happier horizons.

Good luck!

OP, I think you'll feel much better if you just have your 31 year old killed.

This is for all the Mary’s that think it’s made up- go fuck yourselves. The NYC scene in the aughts was loaded with meth heads that’d run every dime they could put of you and install key swipe software on your PC while you’re in the bathroom washing out your ass.

I had some hot looking friends when I was single and we took care and looked out for each other. I actually LOVE a guy that’s got some game in them, it keeps things interesting.

[quote] Going to a group brunch with other couples, while being seated you quickly say, “We’ll each have separate checks” to the waiter before sitting down so he is presented with his own check.

Sounds like you're deciding for the entire group. You should just work out separate payment between you and the young guy.

Never indulge a golddigger. Respect yourself. You’re worthy of having someone choose to be with you for yourself, not what you can give them.

I don't actually mind paying for everything but generally people think I'm poor because I don't have many overtly expensive things. But that's why I can pay for everything now!

How old are you again, OP? You sound like a teenager. And I don't mean that in a good way.

He's 31 which isn't exactly young (he's on the brink of not being in his prime) but he is still young to you. He is not fulfilling your needs. If you only prefer younger men, then you may have to be a Sugar Daddy. Being young and attractive is like being rich and people will pay for it. There are a lot of attractive, interesting men over 30 who may be closer to your age. You have to decide if you want to pay to have a younger man. And if you do, at least get your money's worth. Relationships are reciprocal. If you want young and hot, you are probably going to have to spend some money.

31 is no ingenue, but then again you can't convince a leech not to suck your blood. It's in their DNA.

While I fundamentally disagree with OP, there are hot young guys that only want to date or fuck older guys, and not necessarily for money.

I'm 50. I *CANNOT* attract another 50 year old man to save my life. And that's my preferred dating pool. I've said this before, but they're either all married (and I'm not into guy in open relationships. I want my own relationship) or they're fucking 25 year odd themselves.

I only attract the 25-28 year old crowd. (Actually, I get get hit on a lot by 18-24 year olds, but I don't even respond to them.). One kid has been messaging me since he was 21(!) and now that's he's graduated college and is 25 I finally started telling him, ok, we can have sex, but there needs to be ground rules. I'm not your boyfriend, I don't want to go dancing, I don't particularly want to go anyplace too public with you because I don't want that reputation. You're the one that's messaging me for crazy got daddy sexy. And they always agree to it.

But these kids are relentless! A 26 year old told me recently when I asked him "you're young and hot, why would you want to hang out with me?" -Do you think I don't know what I want?" I don't know how to respond to that.

And they know I'm not rich.

But I do follow Dan Savage's camping /hiking rules for fucking younger guys 1. Don't leave a mess behind, 2. Don't do any harm, 3 Leave things better when you leave then when you found them.

So if we go out for drinks (at a quiet bar, not some highly visible dance club) I'll buy his drinks. I'll buy his dinner. I'm older and I make more and I don't want them not being able to pay rent trying to hang out with me. I'm not jetting them off to Europe, but I'll pay for their beer.

And regarding the "we'll have separate checks, thank you". That is So. Tacky.

Split the bill if everyone wants to. Sometimes I'll purposefully order less or not get an expensive drink so someone isn't paying my share. I'm happy to split the bill. I call it the no-hassle fee. If you're gonna penny pinch on a date, or even with friends, just don't go out. If someone does that when I'm with them, it's unlikely we'll be having dinner together a second time.

Age before beauty.

Tell us more, R35. What do these young, hot guys see in your 50 year old self?

[quote] Actually, I'm the hot one in this equation and the one with the bigger, harder dick, how do millennials get even this set up wrong? Idiots.

It's obvious that you're the idiot.

He's got you paying for him and you're not even attracted to this druggie.

[quote]Tell us more, [R35]. What do these young, hot guys see in your 50 year old self?

That I look like George Clooney and have a huge dick? What do you want to hear? You seem to have already formed an opinion, so share it.

No opinions, R39! I really would like to know what it is about your photo and profile that attracts these young guys. Because when I was in my 20s, I was not attracted to 50 year olds, even if they looked like George Clooney and had a huge dick.

I like your take on generosity; makes a lot of sense.

R35

OP, you haven't really given us a lot to go on. You say you look like George Clooney, have a big dick which can get hard on cue, and are generous with your money. Great. But, you complained you had to pay for everything, and then didn't even get requited with good sex portraying the guy to sound like a prostitute. Wonderful. He has a drug problem or isn't able to moderate his drug use well. He's not hot in your opinion (why go out with him in the first place?), and, at least for the first night (whilst being lit), he's not good in bed either (why come back for seconds?). You set a boundary and kicked him out before morning, but, apparently, you're "in a relationship" with him, which begs the question, again: why? Sorry to be a bitch, but you're too vague about what happened or you're an EST here to paint millennials with a broad brush.

R41, I (r35) am the one who made the comment about looking like George Clooney and having a huge dick in response to what I thought was r37's insincere comment (and to whom I apologize) and I'm not OP.

And I neither look like George Clooney nor have a huge penis (it's gigantic!!) but I still do only attract 25 year olds. What I have is prematurely completely silver hair and an age appropriate looking face. My face looks 50, but my hair looks 70 and is thick and wild. And for some reason that's catnip to 25 year olds.

I won't humble brag, I'll straight up brag. I look better than most other 50 year olds my age. I wasn't a sporty kid, I never spent any time in the sun, and I don't even have crows feet yet much less wrinkles (but I have 70 year old hair). I get called a sliver daddy constantly. I'm bearish and reasonably handsome and have nice skin. There pretty much it. That's enough to attract a 25 year old these days.

R42, thanks for your reply. I think I'm getting the picture. (I'm guessing you must be a top.) I can see from your posts that you are funny, confident and clear about what you want. Could I ask a few more questions?

R37

Sure, r43

Great, thanks!

This is on Grindr, right? What do you say in your profile? What do you show in your photos? What is it you are looking for - hookups, dating, or a relationship?

Have you ever thought you could have a relationship with one of these young guys? Have any of them become FBs or friends?

Aside from being attracted by your looks and personality, what do you think they want from you, ie, do they want you to take any other role apart from sex partner - friend, confidante, mentor?

Does any experience stand out as being exceptionally good or bad?

R37

R45, first, I only have clothed pics, and almost all just head and shoulders. One is headless because I'm wearing a cool shirt and one is a pic of me with a home sleep test machine on which I thought was funny because it has popsicle sticks taped to it to prevent my cat from touching the reset button and ruining the test results. But I have a nasal cannula a and a monitor strapped to me (and I have a huge smile in the photo). I thought it was cute, but I had to add a comment in my profile that said "please stop asking me if I'm dying! It's a home sleep test and I thought it was funny. But feel free to ask why there are popsicle sticks taped to it" it does kinda look like I'm in a hospital.

I don't have and don't share nudes (get a fuck ton of them though) and if a guy bugs me enough for "pics" or "please unlock". I unlock my private album which is only pictures of my cat wearing clothes. They'll either laugh or block me.

My bio info is incredibly sarcastic. It says things like "I'm not into drama, but one time I ordered a sandwich and specifically asked for no mayo, and it still had mayo and I was mad for a whole weekend". That one attracts like-minded guys who say things like "I volunteer to read porn to the blind".

I'm only on Scruff. Grindr seems sketchy and too young for me (which is a terrible irony in that I can't land a 50 year old on scruff).

I don't list whether I'm a top or a bottom, but will tell guys if they ask (I'm a top. And the 25 year olds all seem to assume I am anyway) and I say I'm interested in friendships, dates and chats. Ii don't say dates, hookups, relationships. I'll actually tell a guy I won't hookup until we meet for a drink or coffee (and the ONE time I hooked up with a guy before doing that, I knew within the first ten minutes that I was going to fall head over heels in love and we did start dating. He's the only 50 year old I've ever hooked up with through the app and I was so excited I bypassed my "meet first" rule. So I'm actually pretty bad at one night stands)

With the 25 year olds, I try to push them off. I do block a lot because they're way too aggressive! But if they're nice, mature, and have jobs, I'll do it. But usually months after talking with them online.

(continued in pt 2)

(Part 2) And the craziest and cutest one that I ever connected with came over to my place, had a massive allergic reaction to my cat. So whenever he came over, we'd change the sheets while he was there and keep her locked out. But then one day he was in a mood, already mad about something and he said something like "and your FUCKING CAT won't stay out of the room!" and I asked him to leave. He asked if I was seriously kicking him out and I said yes, I am. The next day he called to apologize and i said it was ok, but we weren't hooking up anymore. And he lost his shit! Texted me saying he was going to kill himself, was going to write a letter, blame it on me. I didn't want to block or ignore him so I kept talking to him (over two days) until I was convinced he wasn't going to hurt himself, and then quietly stopped speaking to him. Then months later he called to apologize and said his meds were all messed up, but he was back on everything, and I said that's great, but we're still not seeing one another again. He started sending me nudes and begging me to let him come over, but I declined. But he was hot as hell! Shorty Latino with a fiery temper. He was so adorable that months after all THAT, I texted HIM and we went out for dinner, didn't end up having sex, and then he moved out of state. I was slightly relieved and a little bummed because he was great in bed, Just a little (lot) crazy.

But nobody has ever asked me for money or anything weird. And if they've been to my 500 sq foot apartment, they know I'm not wealthy and a bit of a minimalist. But like I said before, I make more money, so I do buy the drinks and dinner, but they're not (I don't think) expecting me to. I just offer to do it.

I am friends with several of them, in person and on Facebook and Instagram (so they can see my real name, my real friends, my real life).

What they all have in common is that they ONLY seem to be attracted to older guys. They have young friends, but they only want sex with older guys. And they don't want relationships, mentoring (I wouldn't even know what to do there!) or confidantes. They want sex. They want sweaty, hot, daddy, messy sex. That's it.

This is great, thank you, R46, R47. I'm still no closer to understanding why these young, hot men prefer to have a lover the same age as their father, although a skilled top will always be in demand. My single 50+ women friends tell me the 30 year old guys chase them specifically because they place no demands on them for marriage, children or rescuing, unlike women their own age.

But your tale should give hope to 40+ gay men who think their sell-by date has passed.

R37

I felt basically invisible to men from when I was 35 to 45, and then suddenly I started getting all this attention from young guys. I imagine it will be gone by the time I'm 60 (I kinda hope so) and then I'll probably have no prospects until I move into some Rainbow Retirement Community and start having sex with other 80 year olds.

My great grandfather and my grandfather were notorious ladies' men when they were widowed and hit their 80s. My great grandfather got a stern warning for having sex at 98(!) in a nursing home. They told my aunt!!

Apparently I come from a long line of man-sluts. I see it as my duty to keep up that tradition.

Well, Hot Silver Daddy, perhaps you can ask one of the more thoughtful and articulate ones how he came to the conclusion that mature 45+ men are the hottest.

I really enjoyed your forthright and uplifting descriptions. I hope you find the man of your dreams.

R37

Nowhere near daddy-territory yet (35 here, in actual years) — but this is why I avoid dating students. Give me men my age who can afford to pay for a drink every now and then.

R37, I have asked and all I can get out of them is "I just like older guys" or "I don't really like guys my age". I get hit on by a very small subset of 25 year olds. The vast majority wouldn't give me the time of day, but there are so many of them that a small subset is actually a LOT of 25 year olds. I've probably screened out the ones that were seeking money, travel, diamonds, by putting them off and not saying "c'mon over!" the first night. And I know enough about some of these guys to know they have dads that they get along with and I wouldn't say they *all* have daddy issues. Some clearly have issues (See above about the suicide threat) but the rest have jobs, roommates where they can't bring someone home, and are all around not too crazy. Maybe it's because old guys live alone and that means they don't have to deal with other 25 year olds with roommates 🤷🏻

Last story: a nice, but relentless pursuer has been chatting at me for over a year. During the course of the year he started an onlyfans. That's a turn off for me, but we're already friendly so I'm not going to stop talking to him (but I'm not hooking up with him either) and all his videos? Only 50 year old guys that are about my build.

I cal him my little porn pet to a friend who knows about this phenomenon.

But there's also good news. I asked a 50 year guy (someone I already know) out and he said YES! I think. He's very sarcastic. He definitely said yes, but I asked "is this a date?" and never got a clear yes because he was being too sarcastic. I like that actually.

[quote]Apparently I come from a long line of man-sluts. I see it as my duty to keep up that tradition.

R49 that is a mighty fine family tradition to keep up! Do it honour!

Nicholas won't like you running your potty mouth like that, R53

I guess that explains it, R52, although I don't know why you were invisible before. It also explains something else to me - a fair number of times, I've noticed very young guys looking at my 50+ husband with interest or even longing. He is tall and well-built, with a full head of silver hair. He also said a young friend - 21- from his car club seemed to be all over him. But we dismissed it as preposterous. I guess not...

R37

[quote]Age before beauty

Pearls before swine!