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Why do most people become more conservative as they age?

Is it that we don’t embrace change as easily? I am a gold star gay, spent many years living in SF, and a life long Democrat. I moved to the center politically in the last 10 years as have most of my friends. Thoughts?

by Anonymousreply 268December 9, 2022 1:39 PM

Why don't you answer your own question, OP?

Since you fit the narrative.

by Anonymousreply 1July 10, 2022 1:30 AM

I think a lot of it is because when you’re younger, and you don’t appreciate rules and boundaries, you often end up suffering as a result of not setting boundaries. You learn from experience the folly of the ideas you had when you were younger.

by Anonymousreply 2July 10, 2022 1:31 AM

It's because they get tired of the absolute bs of this woke culture . They don't accept responsibility for anything and only look to blame others instead of finding solutions

by Anonymousreply 3July 10, 2022 1:32 AM

Socialism is fine and dandy until you run out of other people's money.

by Anonymousreply 4July 10, 2022 1:33 AM

I'm not conserverative and never have been.

by Anonymousreply 5July 10, 2022 1:33 AM

Full marks for spelling, R5.

by Anonymousreply 6July 10, 2022 1:37 AM

I think I’ve always had a conservative nature. I’ve always been pro-choice, but I wasn’t always pro homosexuality. In my earlier childhood, I believed in God but had no moral judgment about homosexuality. I was a Scientologist as a teen, and I was taught that gays were aberrated and covertly hostile and toxic to be around.

Now I’m an atheist.

I’ve always been pro responsibility and hard work. But as I get older, the conservative part of me acknowledges that nature plays a huge role as well and that some people are naturally going to be the products of their nurturing environment that is influenced by the nature of the people in those environments.

Not everyone can be equal when it comes to distribution of intelligence and talent.

by Anonymousreply 7July 10, 2022 1:42 AM

Well now.

by Anonymousreply 8July 10, 2022 1:45 AM

They’re afraid of dying, and they’re under the impression that everyone owes them something since they’re old.

Not everyone goes down this path, but plenty of seniors do.

by Anonymousreply 9July 10, 2022 1:47 AM

R7 That's interesting.

by Anonymousreply 10July 10, 2022 1:48 AM

OP, you need to give is a definition of what you mean by 'conservative' because R9 obviously has a different one.

by Anonymousreply 11July 10, 2022 1:49 AM

Fox News, from dawn to dusk. Deeply indoctrinated. The older we get the more gullible we are. Fox knows how to use fear to brainwash elders.

by Anonymousreply 12July 10, 2022 1:51 AM

Why? Several reasons:

1. When you're young you're idealistic because you have no experience in the limitations that idealism has. Later you learn.

2. With age you become more self-protective and if you've done well for yourself, you don't want to just give it away to lost causes.

3. You realize that sometimes, even your enemies have some good ideas so you're not as righteous anymore.

4. You begin to tire of the echo chamber of your friends and allies, and you question whether they are right or just wanting to sound right.

I'm sure there's more.

by Anonymousreply 13July 10, 2022 1:53 AM

Because they lose more than they're getting and must HOLD ON to what they got.

by Anonymousreply 14July 10, 2022 1:55 AM

Well that sounds very sensible, R14.

by Anonymousreply 15July 10, 2022 1:56 AM

R14 Pretty much this. A lot of people get theirs and don't think anyone else deserves the same opportunities. They want to keep what they have, pay less taxes, etc.

by Anonymousreply 16July 10, 2022 1:58 AM

The logic is:

“I’m old and unhappy. Not everything in society today is the same as it was was when I was young and happy. I can only conclude I’m unhappy because some things in society are changing.”

People turn conservative because their views become obsolete as the world starts to pass them by. They’d rather drag everyone down and make everyone unhappy than accept that the world is going to keep on spinning after they’re six feet under.

by Anonymousreply 17July 10, 2022 1:59 AM

[quote] They want to keep what they have, pay less taxes, etc

R16 Do you know any young people who want to give money away and pay more taxes?

by Anonymousreply 18July 10, 2022 2:00 AM

R17 = Sigmund Freud

by Anonymousreply 19July 10, 2022 2:01 AM

R18 Yeah? If it helps society why not. Get back to me in 10 years though.

by Anonymousreply 20July 10, 2022 2:02 AM

"They don't accept responsibility for anything and only look to blame others instead of finding solutions"

LOL, as opposed to people who blame Biden for gas prices and blame rap music and marijuana for mass shootings. When did Republicans find solutions for anything? The red states have more poverty and more crime

by Anonymousreply 21July 10, 2022 2:06 AM

I'm not. I'm becoming increasingly more liberal and livid at Republicans and their shenanigans as I age.

by Anonymousreply 22July 10, 2022 2:08 AM

"Socialism is fine and dandy until you run out of other people's money."

How much did Republicans waste on bullshit audits because they were too pathetic to admit that Trump lost the election?

How much money did California conservatives waste on a bullshit recall election in a state where Republicans are a dwindling minority?

And only low IQ conservatives think Democrats are "socialist"

by Anonymousreply 23July 10, 2022 2:08 AM

r22, me too

by Anonymousreply 24July 10, 2022 2:08 AM

Conservatives said their world would collapse if gay people got married......now 70% of Americans support gay marriage

Why would you side with people who have been wrong about everything?

by Anonymousreply 25July 10, 2022 2:09 AM

I honestly never gave a shit about politics in my youth and despised political conversations. I found them boring. It wasn't until I got a job that put me in a higher tax bracket where I started paying attention because my first reaction to income tax deductions was, legit, "Where the fuck did all my money go!? I worked 120 hours up in this bitch, damn it!"

I teetered slowly between total anarchist to libertarian. I've never been a completely liberal, especially not fiscally. Because, I prefer to keep the money I make. I like money. And I like it even more when I bust my ass for it. I don't like giving away my money involuntarily.

by Anonymousreply 26July 10, 2022 2:11 AM

If you’re not liberal when you’re young you’re heartless, if you’re not conservative when you’re old you’re an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 27July 10, 2022 2:11 AM

[quote] if you’re not conservative when you’re old you’re an idiot.

This is no longer true in the age of Republican Christian fascism.

by Anonymousreply 28July 10, 2022 2:16 AM

Both sides lie a lot. And you get more cynical with age

by Anonymousreply 29July 10, 2022 2:17 AM

[quote] This is no longer true in the age of Republican Christian fascism.

You don't have to be a Christian fascist to have some less than extreme Left values but today it doesn't matter, you'll be accused of being a fascist anyway.

by Anonymousreply 30July 10, 2022 2:24 AM

R30 being a moderate is the way to go, the rest are nuts.

by Anonymousreply 31July 10, 2022 2:28 AM

R30, oh well.That's an ancient quote from a different era and a different Republican party that no longer exists.

by Anonymousreply 32July 10, 2022 2:31 AM

As one gets older one becomes more fearful and insecure. We seek comfort in our nostalgic views of the past. Propogandist like FOX know this well Old people are fearful and FOX preys on that.

by Anonymousreply 33July 10, 2022 2:34 AM

When you have worked to get stuff that you want to keep, you change.

by Anonymousreply 34July 10, 2022 2:36 AM

Because they can see through all the bullshit and delusions. And they have seen it all before. Like social Justice starting out as a noble cause and ending in Jonestown.

by Anonymousreply 35July 10, 2022 2:36 AM

R26 sounds very sensible.

by Anonymousreply 36July 10, 2022 2:37 AM

Being in the middle moves the needle slowly, too fast on either side scares people. The answer has always been moderation.

by Anonymousreply 37July 10, 2022 2:40 AM

The old saw is that if you’re young and not liberal, you’re functioning without a soul. If you’re old and not conservative, you’re functioning without a brain.

I don’t completely subscribe to it, but it has some element of truth. When you’re young you see injustice and it angers you and you want to make peoples lives better. When you get older you see so often that social systems are self-serving and so the “improvements” really just replace one injustice with another.

That said, there is SO much injustice in the USA of 2022 that some progressive reform literally can’t make things more horrible than they are already. And fuck you to the people who say, “want to bet?” — sure I’d be happy to. LET’S TRY IT. We have what looks more and more like de facto slavery for tens of millions of the poorest Americans while the rich rake in tens of billions during times of others’ misfortune.

By the way this is why I hate neo-progressivism so much. So much focus on statues, student loans and pronouns as the colossal injustices of our society get ignored.

by Anonymousreply 38July 10, 2022 2:46 AM

[quote]Why do most people become more conservative as they age?

It’s not about becoming conservative, what you’ll see a the selfish, self-centered belief that oneself is - and always has been - right.

Every generation looks at youth and hisses, “In MY day…”

by Anonymousreply 39July 10, 2022 2:48 AM

^^ is the

by Anonymousreply 40July 10, 2022 2:49 AM

R26 you also don't acknowledge how you've benefitted in life from that "stolen" (tax) money. It helped you make the money you have today and now you're thinking, "I've got mine, I'm not sharing it!" (Though the amount taken out at certain income levels is ludicrous)

by Anonymousreply 41July 10, 2022 4:01 AM

[quote]The old saw is that if you’re young and not liberal, you’re functioning without a soul. If you’re old and not conservative, you’re functioning without a brain.

I don’t completely subscribe to it, but it has some element of truth. When you’re young you see injustice and it angers you and you want to make peoples lives better. When you get older you see so often that social systems are self-serving and so the “improvements” really just replace one injustice with another.

That said, there is SO much injustice in the USA of 2022 that some progressive reform literally can’t make things more horrible than they are already. And fuck you to the people who say, “want to bet?” — sure I’d be happy to. LET’S TRY IT. We have what looks more and more like de facto slavery for tens of millions of the poorest Americans while the rich rake in tens of billions during times of others’ misfortune.

By the way this is why I hate neo-progressivism so much. So much focus on statues, student loans and pronouns as the colossal injustices of our society get ignored. [quote]

I agree with this. I also think as you get older you understand people and their motivations more.

I live in a lower class area, I work a blue collar job (I haven't always - I am well educated) and I can see the entitlement and laziness all around me. There is the expectations of hand-outs and the victimhood is off the charts.

The left-wing government in my country thinks everything can be solved with greater handouts (often race-based) and the right-wing are the usual pack of cunts. However, there is a middle ground, and I see the value in people learning to pull themselves up.

The left thinks we can do this by handing out money instead of tools (with the obligatory white guilt) and the right thinks we can force this by gutting social services. Neither works because the true answer takes time, effort, and changes in culture. No political party wants to deal with that can of worms.

by Anonymousreply 42July 10, 2022 4:11 AM

I've become more liberal as I've gotten older. I can't be the only one.

by Anonymousreply 43July 10, 2022 4:22 AM

[quote]It helped you make the money you have today

Lol. How sway?

by Anonymousreply 44July 10, 2022 4:25 AM

Because with age comes wisdom and that enables you to see more of the BS thats out there. And usually you were fooled when you were young. There are people that get paid outrageous amounts of cash to spin things so you swallow hook line and sinker. And there is a reason they get paid so much.

by Anonymousreply 45July 10, 2022 4:26 AM

It's the economy stupid.

by Anonymousreply 46July 10, 2022 4:36 AM

Conservatard troll thread. "I used to be a liberal, but I just can't stand how Joe Biden and those Democrats have ruined the country."

Sure, Jan.

by Anonymousreply 47July 10, 2022 4:38 AM

it may be a thing, but despite my oldness, I am not becoming more conservative. so, in all polite seriousness, fuck off,,,,,

by Anonymousreply 48July 10, 2022 4:39 AM

I voted for Biden and will again (unless a better democrat gets nominated). Also don’t think he’s ruined the country. And I’m still a liberal. So maybe some people are saying that, r47, but not all replies.

by Anonymousreply 49July 10, 2022 4:41 AM

[quote] I've become more liberal as I've gotten older.

But do you give your money away to strangers, R43? Do you adore Kamala?

by Anonymousreply 50July 10, 2022 4:42 AM

Nothing makes one more conservative than having something to conserve.

by Anonymousreply 51July 10, 2022 4:44 AM

How would I know, I’m a drunk?

by Anonymousreply 52July 10, 2022 4:44 AM

Drunkie skunky. HI!

by Anonymousreply 53July 10, 2022 4:45 AM

Within our friend group we say, we vote Dem because it's the right thing to do. Worries about money/retirement happen as we age but if you look back historically voting Dem is best for your savings and quality of life. I think you're suffering from brainwashing that dems spend spend spend but in reality Dems spend wisely AND pay down our country's debt. Dems balance the budget. Clinton brought us a surplus and Biden is paying down debt caused by tax breaks for the rich. It's wild that people don't see through the sound bytes.

by Anonymousreply 54July 10, 2022 4:45 AM

The older you get (usually) the more you have to conserve and the less time and energy you have to adapt to change, so you tend to vote conservative. Younger people have plenty of time and energy but fewer material possessions, they've got little to lose and plenty to gain by changes.

Or in the words of the great Jack Lang "In the race of life, always bet on self interest, at least you know she's always trying."

by Anonymousreply 55July 10, 2022 4:47 AM

^ Jack Lang thought the best way to cope with debt was to not pay it.

by Anonymousreply 56July 10, 2022 4:58 AM

[quote] I voted for Biden … And I’m still a liberal.

But do you give your money away to strangers, R49?

by Anonymousreply 57July 10, 2022 5:00 AM

It's the fear. You get older and everything becomes a threat. Everything becomes scarier. Everything becomes more disgusting.

Threat, fear and disgust are the strongest markers of conservatism. Threat especially because as you get older you some people become less comfortable with complex ideas. Simplicity is comforting: hence the simplicity of conservative arguments.

by Anonymousreply 58July 10, 2022 5:09 AM

I have been a life long Dem but just had to renew my Drivers License and for the first time in my life, I opted out of either party. I know I won't be able to vote in the primaries but I don't care. I cannot stand by while Dems deny science and biology. The fact that there were THREE choices for sex on the application didn't help. M, F, Non Binary.

There is no fucking thing as not having a sex. I live in Los Angeles and I cannot abide this bullshit any longer. Until the Dems stop denying science and biology, I'm out.

But I will likely NEVER vote for a Republican. Never have, never will.

by Anonymousreply 59July 10, 2022 5:10 AM

There are other parties, r59. If you've already decided not to vote, what do you have to lose by exploring other political ideologies besides the Crips and the Bloods?

by Anonymousreply 60July 10, 2022 5:14 AM

[quote]Socialism is fine and dandy until you run out of other people's money.

Fuck you troll. You just keep believing your MAGA politicians and Faux News bullshit. Or rather, isn't it bedtime in Russia, get some sleep.

The US has more than enough of "other people's money" to help the less fortunate or to simply pay for courses to get many Americans out of their cycle of poverty. To stop waste and too many 'freebies' getting out of hand, give people who are on social service programs, a time frame to get their lives in order, to get a well-paying job. That starts with training programs. It's not as difficult as the politicians claim it is.

The US is the second richest country in the world, yet we have people living in cardboard boxes and under the subway tunnels!

Do you realize how much the upper classes have amassed over the past few years alone? How many billionnaires the US now has? How most of these wealthy people find ways not to pay their fair share of taxes? Don't play stupid, you know all about this.

What about Bezos, Musk and all those other vile super rich bastards who pay less taxes than most middle class US citizens.

After a while, people will protest, but not for assholes like Dump, these people will finally see how they are always being duped.

You think those morons on Jan 6th actually knew WTF they were protesting about? How able they get up in arms about their own personal problems: the high cost of healthcare, needing a living wage, the need for unions (esp for disgusting companies like Amazon, Starbucks etc) and all other daily bullshit that working people deal with. Instead, we have to read about hateful tedious assholes like Musk and Bezos and their trips to ouer space and other such nonsense.

Why must consumers simply accept companies which keep raising their rates for no other reason than making their CEOs and shareholders wealthier.

The government doesn't run a damn thing in the US, corporations do. Those idiots on Jan 6th are way too dense to comprehend most of this.

by Anonymousreply 61July 10, 2022 5:18 AM

But I’ve always wondered why the opposite isn’t equally if not more true. When I was younger I was much more of a believer in a meritocracy - not totally , obviously, but that if you worked hard and were somewhat capable, you could really make a great life for yourself. I’m far more jaded about things like that now, and as we get older aren’t we witness to more and more injustices? Plus the state of our health care system and the elderly…there seem to be a lot of reasons why people would go further left, as well.

by Anonymousreply 62July 10, 2022 5:31 AM

I think for some people it’s about becoming successful and finally having money. Being conservative is also about being fiscally prudent for many people.

by Anonymousreply 63July 10, 2022 5:32 AM

One gets more realistic based on one's experience.

I'm still way left but i supported Hillary for POTUS twice Knowing she is right wing neoliberal. It was because i thought she was the best for the US, and not because my political views have changed.

by Anonymousreply 64July 10, 2022 5:39 AM

On the back nine of your life who cares if the planet burns up in the latter half of this century. Unless you went the weird route and tried to emulate by having kids, things like global warning or nuclear armageddon have little chance of affecting your life. Have fun and judge others all you want.

by Anonymousreply 65July 10, 2022 5:44 AM

[quote] The US has more than enough of "other people's money" to help the less fortunate or to simply pay for courses to get many Americans out of their cycle of poverty

Which "other people's money" are you talking about, R61? Why isn't Joe using this "other people's money" to what you him to do?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 66July 10, 2022 6:04 AM

Over time you begin to realize that throwing money at problems is a feel-good move by politicians that so often has more to do with patronage than anything else. Look for example at where all that money for homeless ends up in West Coast cities.

by Anonymousreply 67July 10, 2022 6:21 AM

I’m socially liberal, but increasingly conservative when it comes to fiscal and national security issues. I think my drift rightward has to do with the fact that despite being a mediocre student in high school, I managed to get my shit together and make something of my life. I have very little patience for people who expect handouts or want to blame others for their shitty lives.

Also, hate the sense of entitlement found in the current generation. No rules seem to apply to them—especially rules governing immigration.

by Anonymousreply 68July 10, 2022 6:42 AM

They turn into their parents.

by Anonymousreply 69July 10, 2022 6:59 AM

The definition/litmus test for what is liberal and conservative also rapidly changing as both sides moving their goalpost. And most people do not see issues as black and white.

I have no problem with trans to self-ID but against biological males in in sports. I support to provide working undocumented legal pathway for permanent residency but at the same we must enforce immigration rules and border control. College debt forgiveness but only for "useful" majors like medicine/healthcare/science . Reparations for AA not giving money to individuals but in a form of scholarship or home ownership aid.

Governing a huge and diverse country should not be a yes/no questions but building consensus from the middle.

by Anonymousreply 70July 10, 2022 7:10 AM

[quote]Conservatives said their world would collapse if gay people got married......now 70% of Americans support gay marriage Why would you side with people who have been wrong about everything?

In the words of former Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron

[quote]And to anyone who has reservations, I say: Yes, it's about equality, but it's also about something else: commitment. Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other. So I don't support gay marriage despite being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I'm a Conservative.

The frothing swivel eyed loons on the right opposed same sex marriage but many left wing radicals did as well, on the principle that marriage is an outdated concept and gay marriage was queers adopting orthodox heteronormativity or something like that.

by Anonymousreply 71July 10, 2022 7:24 AM

[quote] But do you give your money away to strangers,

I give my money to Democrats. I always have and I always will.

Who do you give your money to, asshole R50?

by Anonymousreply 72July 10, 2022 7:29 AM

[quote]The frothing swivel eyed loons on the right opposed same sex marriage but many left wing radicals did as well, on the principle that marriage is an outdated concept and gay marriage was queers adopting orthodox heteronormativity or something like that.

JFC don't try to pretend like the numbers are in any way comparable. 99% of opposition to gay marriage came from conservatives and 1% if that came from gender separatists or whatever, none of whom were voting for the Republicans who passed conservative laws and installed conservative judges.

Typical conservative bullshit. No defense for your past behavior, so you just rewrite history and gaslight. (Like the old chestnut about how racist Southern Democrats were. You hear that? 60 years ago, the racists mostly went by the label DEMOCRATS!)

by Anonymousreply 73July 10, 2022 7:34 AM

“Conservatism” is popular among older people because people who are old now were part of the me generation. Modern conservatism is tailor-made to appeal to a selfish generation that disliked personal responsibly. They feed at the public trough with abandon but become enraged at being asked to pay taxes for it. Don’t dare ask them to take the responsibility to get a simple vaccine but you must provide them unlimited medical care when they get sick. They insist insurers insure them when they are Ill but don’t dare require them to buy insurance when they are well. If they failed at everything. It’s because of their race—-the dark people have taken over. Don’t dare curb any of their impulses. If they want to to own dangerous weapons you can’t stop them. Their side wins every election no matter the votes cast.

Conservatism is a religion of self indulgence and irresponsibility for old people who remained indulged children their whole life.

by Anonymousreply 74July 10, 2022 8:02 AM

Yeah, how did that happen.

by Anonymousreply 75July 10, 2022 8:07 AM

Things are constantly changing they want things to stay as they are, it’s bad enough society looks over you once you hit your 40’s.

by Anonymousreply 76July 10, 2022 8:45 AM

"Grumpy old men" are absolutely NO different from Angry Young Men.

by Anonymousreply 77July 10, 2022 8:49 AM

R76 What do you mean "society looks over you" ?

Do you mean 'scrutinise' Or do you mean 'ignore'?

by Anonymousreply 78July 10, 2022 8:51 AM

Count me among the people who have not gotten one bit more conservative with age. To the various people above who feel that they made it on their own and they want to keep all their own money, do they drive? (Who paid for the roads and highways?) Do they utilize or plan to utilize Medicare and Social Security? (Who paid for those?) Have they ever flown on an airplane? (Whose money built all the airports and maintain them?) have they benefitted from a stable banking and economic system? (How did that happen?). Have they ever visited a national or state park? (Who paid for and maintained those?) Sewer systems, clean water delivered to your tap, It always astounds me that people think these things just magically happen and God forbid they should be expected to pay some portion out of their salaries. As Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said MANY years ago - "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization". Moreover, although someone earning 120,000 for the first time may be startled when he realized he has paid 30,000 or so in taxes, he is not really paying that much proportionally more than someone who earned 40,000 and is paying 9,000 in taxes. In fact, he has a LOT more money to "squander" than the person earning less even after paying taxes. Of course there is always waste in government spending and inequalities in distribution, and all sorts of ills. The alternative though is what? Mogadishu, Calcutta, Lima, Lagos?

The root of problems today is the vast inequality built into our system and getting worse by the year. The system has always been gamed by the wealthy and even more so since the Supreme Court decided not to limit spending on campaigns by corporations - a gift to people like the Mercers and the Koch brothers who have used their money to buy thousands of political offices in the US. This inequality trickled down to the inadequacies in funding of schools, in opportunities in inner cities, in countless ways that affect crime rates and medical outcomes. People are easily distracted by social issues and forget the REAL problem of our system, which almost needs a revolution to overcome. As Napoleon said many years ago, "If not for the power of the churches over the minds of men, the common people would rise up, kill the rich and take over their lands and houses". Thomas Jefferson thought that ALL inheritance should be fully taxed so that families could not accumulate wealth over time, because he recognized the corrupting power of the desire to accumulate wealth at the expense of others in society. His will did not prevail, unfortunately.

by Anonymousreply 79July 10, 2022 9:00 AM

[quote] Napoleon said many years ago, "If not for the power of the churches over the minds of men, the common people would rise up, kill the rich and take over their lands and houses"

Napoleon gave himself the same powers as the church.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 80July 10, 2022 9:04 AM

One cause is that as people age their circles narrows.

They have fewer friends who grow more alike in age and situation and perspective. If they have children, the children are themselves of adult age and doing adult things like marriage or buying a second home. Their careers are at peak: with room to move up, a bit, but for many they start to see an arc where an end to work and working income is in sight.

Their social life narrows, the people they socialize with are fewer and, through whatever forms of attrition, are more peas in a pod than a chaotic mix. The younger people they know are their adult children, their grandchildren, people who work in restaurants and shops. The older people they once knew are increasing out of the picture. They meet very few new people, and fewer still who stand a chance to penetrate their now we'll defined circles.

The stimulus of being young and having young friends and finding your way in a more adult, more established world is in the past. The friends you had that will argue anything, the ones you sometimes want to smack for using the term "devil's advocate" the 7th time in an evening...they moved away, or you moved away. They're forgotten. So are lively arguments and discussions. So are oddball friends who live very differently than you do. The mix of people has shrunken. The excitement of meeting new people never happens. The circle grows ever smaller and ever more homogenous.

I think that aspect of aging is sad more than malicious. It's not a conscious cutting off of hippy friends or people living at the edges of things; not always a conscious choice to circle the wagons and protect their own financial and class interests. It's more incremental this narrowing of friends, of focus, of exposure to dissent and different ideas. When you've unconsciously self selected to a boring sameness, you get a mutual admiration circle jerk. It's unknowingly insidious more than it's consciously malicious.

by Anonymousreply 81July 10, 2022 9:09 AM

Blabbing on about social inequality becomes a bore as you age. Besides, you sound like a hypocrite. Think Bernie and his houses.

by Anonymousreply 82July 10, 2022 9:11 AM

Napoleon's sentence is true, but that doesn't make him a saint. He didn't apply his own analysis to his own behavior. It was partially based upon people like Napoleon that Lord Acton wrote his famous sentences: “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

Our system is supposed to be designed to limit the power acquired and wielded by one person - "checks and balances". But it's not a perfect system and money has corrupted it.

by Anonymousreply 83July 10, 2022 9:11 AM

I'd like to see the world through the eyes of the old man looking on and disgust as the pretty Nazi boy sings "Tomorrow belongs to Me" in "Cabaret". The Nazis thought what they were doing was for the good of the world, and the old man was seeing his world fall apart. Perhaps he was an old Christian man watching old Jewish friends of his losing their businesses and maybe even taken away. The shot of that man looking on and disgust has always haunted me since I first saw the movie.

As I reach the beginning of my 60's, I look back to my idealistic self 30 something years ago, and I see an extreme shift. I don't like extremism from the right or the left because common sense disappears when it's overshadowed by extreme emotion. Even when I was much more liberal, when I would see mobs of extreme liberals getting violent in protests, I knew it would destroy the cause we were fighting for because hot heads were in charge that day.

by Anonymousreply 84July 10, 2022 9:12 AM

Social inequality is minor. Income inequality is huge. When 1% of the people own 90% of the wealth of a country, something is seriously amiss.

by Anonymousreply 85July 10, 2022 9:15 AM

[quote] The left-wing government in my country thinks everything can be solved with greater handouts (often race-based)

Can you tell us, R42, which country you're from?

by Anonymousreply 86July 10, 2022 9:15 AM

In the US most hand-outs go to the elderly, most of whom are white.

by Anonymousreply 87July 10, 2022 9:20 AM

The longer you live, the more you want to preserve the past......

by Anonymousreply 88July 10, 2022 9:24 AM

Isn't there a quote attributed to Churchill: "the one who is not socialist as youth has no heart and the one that isn't conservative in old age has no brains."

by Anonymousreply 89July 10, 2022 9:25 AM

[quote] In the US most hand-outs go to the elderly…

R87 The elderly have paid the most taxes over the greater number of years.

by Anonymousreply 90July 10, 2022 9:26 AM

Yes. But their payments don’t equal on average what they take from the system

by Anonymousreply 91July 10, 2022 9:28 AM

R84 That song was used in the Hitler-Thatcher Spitting Image skit discussed in another thread today!

by Anonymousreply 92July 10, 2022 9:31 AM

Acquired wisdom comes with age hopefully

by Anonymousreply 93July 10, 2022 9:34 AM

Experience over idealism.

Also, when you've worked for what you have over many years, and when you actually have assets, which most younger people don't, you want to protect them.

by Anonymousreply 94July 10, 2022 9:37 AM

R91 Silly you. You are complaining about old people being conservative and you are worse than Thatcher. A real right winger. Cause every society that is not anti social takes care of elderly and vulnerable members.

by Anonymousreply 95July 10, 2022 9:40 AM

R95. Where did I say it was a bad thing to take care of the elderly? I said nothing of the sort.

by Anonymousreply 96July 10, 2022 9:44 AM

In a nutshell, there is something psychologically infantile about the way Dems operate. It's a perpetual victim mentality...the mentality of children who always want someone else to come and take care of things for them. It's very easy to be an idealist if the expectation is that *someone else* is going to build Utopia. It's also easy as a young person to shit on the status quo....because you didn't have hand in creating it. In other words, it's easy to tear things down....and much harder to build systems that work. As young liberals get older, many will feel a stronger pull to maintain and conserve systems....because they had a hand in their design and they recognize how hard it was to get things even partially right.

Republicans, for all their MANY flaws, seem to recognize that *they* are the grownups in the room. The cavalry isn't coming- if they want something done, they have to do it themselves. So, lots of people become more conservative simply by maturing and being willing to accept responsibility for things.

I mean, look at what they just accomplished with Roe, horrifying though it is. They rolled up their sleeves and chipped away at that ruling for *years* and started feeding more hard line conservative types into the courts until they had all their devious ducks in a row.

Meanwhile, the Dems could have codified Roe any time and instead they just sat on their asses whining about other stuff. And RBG *refused* to step down during Obama's presidency- yet another moronic Dem decision rooted in sentiment.... not strategy.

by Anonymousreply 97July 10, 2022 10:09 AM

Really, it all comes down to politics. Republicans and the capital gains tax, Democrats and Obamaphones, and Chuck Schumer in the middle trying to justify his support for ending the SALT limitation.

by Anonymousreply 98July 10, 2022 10:30 AM

Let's not pretend that the current Republicans/GOP are conservative. Conservative has typically meant smaller government and more fiscal responsibility.

Not tax cuts the government can't afford and state governments regulating against abortion.

People talk about spending other people's money, where the hell do you think that $2 trillion that Trump gave to corporations came from? Your pocket.

by Anonymousreply 99July 10, 2022 11:00 AM

Getting more conservative does not mean turning into a conservative. Most of us just become more moderate in some areas because we understand that the world is gray, not black and white. Plus, all these shiny new ideas the youngins are having were all shiny and new a couple decades ago when we had them. We just understand they won't work now because we've been in the world longer.

I love the sensible answers on here coming from actual older people who've come to conclusions based on their experiences and by watching the world around them and then the idiotic answers spouting the same shit young people have spouted forever that are coming from a place of complete naivete and ignorance.

In the form of the answers on this thread, you have the answer to your original question, OP. It's actual experience versus naive ignorance. Down and dirty reality vs. pie in the sky fantasyland.

by Anonymousreply 100July 10, 2022 11:26 AM

Older people who survive to old age are generally wealthier than the ones that don't survive.

Wealthy people are concerned with hanging on to what they believe they rightfully "earned" and oppose anything that appears to threaten that.

They also lack empathy because they experienced very different labor market and economic conditions which allowed them to build that wealth that are not present in today's precarious job market.

by Anonymousreply 101July 10, 2022 11:47 AM

Because they become old enough to know things don’t fundamentally change, stereotypes exist for a reason and it is ultimately best to vote with your own interests in mind.

by Anonymousreply 102July 10, 2022 11:49 AM

You learn that making poor people rich doesn't solve many problems. Look at lottery winners. Look at casinoed Indian tribe members. Realism vs idealism.

by Anonymousreply 103July 10, 2022 12:00 PM

Dear lord. You do realise people who play the lottery don’t make good financial decisions to begin with? But if that makes you feel about income equality, you can keep dwelling on that. You can also delude yourself that most government spending hire to the poor, despite realty.

by Anonymousreply 104July 10, 2022 12:03 PM

But that's exactly exactly the point. Throwing money at an underclass that can't handle money well achieves nothing except make the SJWs feel good about themselves.

by Anonymousreply 105July 10, 2022 12:19 PM

Right. That’s exactly the point. Every single poor person plays the lottery. Every single poor person has no grasp of how to manage his or her money. You know that despite having no evidence. And I trust you despite the fact that you offer no evidence. Poor people are hopeless hey over it.

by Anonymousreply 106July 10, 2022 12:30 PM

It's hilarious to see some posters blaming Fox News. What OP described is as old as time. Fox News has only been around for 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 107July 10, 2022 12:50 PM

R105. Sigh. Inequality has been shown to be a huge problem for everybody. Piketty did a whole book on it. As did Wilkinson and Pikett, Stiglitz and many others I have yet to get round to reading. Piketty was very thorough, though its very dense. Wilkinson and Pikett did a nice job and there are powerpoint slides that communicate their main points.

Anyway, redressing inequality does a lot more than just make people feel good. It is one of the biggest drivers of instability in the US right now and has been throughout history. I'm sure the people who ended up under the guillotine regretted not addressing wealth disparities sooner.

by Anonymousreply 108July 10, 2022 12:57 PM

I'm fiscally moderate and socially liberal but military conservative and 65 years old. When I was younger I was more conservative and voted for Ford, Reagan twice and Bush I and then went more liberal and since have only voted for those with Democrats.

by Anonymousreply 109July 10, 2022 1:04 PM

R109. Good on you. Let's be honest: Bush I was the last decent Republican president and really the last true Conservative president.

by Anonymousreply 110July 10, 2022 1:07 PM

No guys. You're supposed to suggest resolving the problem by setting up financial education centers for the poor headed up by $200,000/year administrators, $125,000 educators and with loads of big contracts to McKinsey-types to plan and organize it all. That's the Democratic way. Pork disguised as help.

by Anonymousreply 111July 10, 2022 1:09 PM

senility and fear of change/being left behind

by Anonymousreply 112July 10, 2022 1:12 PM

Do they?

by Anonymousreply 113July 10, 2022 1:20 PM

I am a moderate democrat. I haven't become more conservative, it is just that many of the things that used to be considered "liberal" are now not considered liberal any longer. It's not like I'm voting republican because they've gone completely off the deep end, but I do feel that there is a push to move the democratic party into a place that I'm not comfortable with either. But I know at some point soon the party will nominate a Bernie/AOC/Squad type and I will be fucked, because that is the one place I won't go with this party.

by Anonymousreply 114July 10, 2022 1:21 PM

Agree completely with R42.

I also agree with R114 when he (she?) bemoans the potential of the Democrats nominating a socialist, instead of forcing that small part of our our party to go make their own (which would collapse on its own of course, or they would already have made their own party and not glommed onto ours).

I will never become a Republican even if I live to be 120. But I won't become a Bernie/AOC/Squad Socialist, either. I'd say that it might get to the point where I am uninterested in voting, should the Socialist Bernie/AOC/Squad types take over my party but the current Republican party have already put in place mechanisms to nullify my vote in future elections.

As long as my vote does still count, I will vote for Democrats. Every election, every damn time.

by Anonymousreply 115July 10, 2022 1:37 PM

They get older, become aware of their own mortality, get engulfed with fear which feelings of personal grievance help them deflect. As long as their wallowing in their own sense of victimhood they feel purposeful and in the right. Then they white knuckle it on their death bed.

by Anonymousreply 116July 10, 2022 1:54 PM

The parties change not the people. If people think transgenderism is “liberal” they’re smoking some strong crack.

by Anonymousreply 117July 10, 2022 1:55 PM

I have become more liberal with age because I’m old enough to know the truth

by Anonymousreply 118July 10, 2022 2:00 PM

I have become more progressive as I age. Money in politics has put the thumb on the scale of generational wealth. Institutional racism has denied many Americans of a successful future. As a gay man who sees and has experienced the bias and bigotry in the workplace, I believe that only the government can move the needle on social fairness.

by Anonymousreply 119July 10, 2022 2:02 PM

[Quote] I will never become a Republican even if I live to be 120. But I won't become a Bernie/AOC/Squad Socialist, either.

The GOP has no problem voting in fascists as the left gets squeamish about the word “socialist.”

In fact they are “Democratic socialists.” They are pushing to get everyone healthcare, child care, colleges, etc. how horrible!

by Anonymousreply 120July 10, 2022 2:02 PM

Not me. I think people who are conservative at heart but used to make a show of being progressive because that was the thing to do in the 1980s and 1990s now feel comfortable letting the shittier aspects of their belief systems show.

by Anonymousreply 121July 10, 2022 2:02 PM

[quote]In fact they are “Democratic socialists.” They are pushing to get everyone healthcare, child care, colleges, etc. how horrible!

And transitioning.

by Anonymousreply 122July 10, 2022 2:04 PM

[Quote] Good on you. Let's be honest: Bush I was the last decent Republican president and really the last true Conservative president.

Complete bull shit. The right wants to forget that it supported GWB and Trump wholeheartedly so, once the country has seen them as the worst presidents ever, the right is suddenly “George H W Bush was the last true conservative.”

by Anonymousreply 123July 10, 2022 2:04 PM

[Quote] And transitioning.

Caitlyn disagrees with you

by Anonymousreply 124July 10, 2022 2:04 PM

[Quote] I'm fiscally moderate and socially liberal but military conservative and 65 years old.

What’s a military conservative?

by Anonymousreply 125July 10, 2022 2:05 PM

It's easy to be more socialist when your'e a young student and don't own anything or pay taxes. When you have stuff you don't want to lose it or give it away for free.

by Anonymousreply 126July 10, 2022 2:06 PM

Once you've been alive long enough you realize for all the talk and talk and talk and talk, it's all the same as it ever was. It isn't so much conservatism as a blend of self-preservation (self-care, if it's more palatable) and resignation. 'Twas ever thus.

by Anonymousreply 127July 10, 2022 2:10 PM

[quote]Caitlyn disagrees with you

Transgenderism is conservative. That’s why I say if you believe transgenderism is a liberal ideal, you’re mistaken.

by Anonymousreply 128July 10, 2022 2:13 PM

R126. That might be true if conservatives actually believed in fiscal restraint. They don’t at all.

by Anonymousreply 129July 10, 2022 2:13 PM

I don't think that it's necessarily that people get more conservative as we age, but that younger people are getting more and more liberal, to the point of ridiculousness at times. We may be gold star gays and lifelong democrats but we came up when people were expected to make a life for themselves, not expect the government to just hand them everything they want. Our attitudes have not changed. It's the times that have changed.

by Anonymousreply 130July 10, 2022 2:17 PM

I used to be in far left groups when I was in my late teens and early 20s. I drifted closer to centre after I started seeing the hypocrisy within the movement. Which is actually more authoritarian than the far right, more in inclined to violence, bigotry and all they stuff they accuse everyone else of. I'd take anything, including classic fascism, over a communist dictatorship.

I'm closer to being an anarchist these days, the further away from authoritarian attitudes the better.

by Anonymousreply 131July 10, 2022 2:19 PM

R63, but here’s the thing:

Republicans are NOT more fiscally prudent.

They deregulate the hell out of everything, and spend away like there’s no tomorrow.

They claim to want small government, and states’ rights, but in the final analysis, they spend recklessly, and cut any social benefits for the poor, wherever and whenever they can, while giving the one percent a pass on taxes.

This isn’t economic conservatism. It’s widespread theft and a system that saddles generation upon generation with overwhelming debt and crush economic opportunities for generations to come.

I’ve never understood why people still claim that conservatives in government are prudent with money, when every single time they leave office, we’re in more debt than ever and end up with huge deficits.

Then the Dems come in, fix it, and once the Republicans get back into office, they ride on the coattails of the Dems who fixed it, while destroying the economy again in the background.

It happens every single time.

Again, how are conservatives more economically sound?

by Anonymousreply 132July 10, 2022 2:19 PM

[Quote] It's easy to be more socialist when your'e a young student and don't own anything or pay taxes. When you have stuff you don't want to lose it or give it away for free.

Except that now that I pay a lot in taxes AND I have to pay separately for healthcare, childcare, college, etc, I’ve realized that socialism actually is cheaper

by Anonymousreply 133July 10, 2022 2:20 PM

I’ve realized that being a “moderate” or a centrist is basically being fine with half-asses policies that don’t move the country anywhere at all

by Anonymousreply 134July 10, 2022 2:21 PM

[Quote] Being conservative is also about being fiscally prudent for many people.

You seem to have missed every GOP administration in the last 100 years

by Anonymousreply 135July 10, 2022 2:22 PM

In Europe, even the conservatives are fine with a socialist safety net.

by Anonymousreply 136July 10, 2022 2:23 PM

People who become more conservative are the ones who become more resentful, selfish, jealous and bitter with every sag and every wrinkle and they want to make younger people miserable. They want to take opportunities away from young people that they themselves had growing up. They envy youth being able to have fun as they themselves watch their lives coming closer to the end.

by Anonymousreply 137July 10, 2022 2:23 PM

R133 I'm talking about the young kids who call themselves marxists in college etc. My stepdaughter is an avowed communist these days. I'm guessing that will change the moment she inherits the house and actually has something to lose. Suddenly property ownership wont be evil anymore.

I live in a socialist country with free healthcare etc and I thoroughly agree with you. It is cheaper, but you do pay for it through your taxes and they are high. Every now and then I do feel as though a lot of people are freeloading on the social welfare system, but swings and roundabouts I guess.

by Anonymousreply 138July 10, 2022 2:25 PM

An avowed communist, R138?

Do you live in a communist country?

Because we do NOT have a communist party in America.

by Anonymousreply 139July 10, 2022 2:27 PM

Always remember one thing about Republicans. They want smaller government for one main reason. Smaller government means less people available to keep watch over their illegal activities.

by Anonymousreply 140July 10, 2022 2:27 PM

R123 HW Bush got those amendments to Clean Air through which I respected him for. He's no Teddy but at least that's something.

And whilst his tax increase was unpopular I at least give him kudos for doing it. The modern GOP would never in a million years. They'd rather blow out the deficit even further, fiscal responsibility be damned.

by Anonymousreply 141July 10, 2022 2:34 PM

Of course, HW also got Clarence on the bench so that's definitely a mark against him.

by Anonymousreply 142July 10, 2022 2:36 PM

R136 I'm not American

by Anonymousreply 143July 10, 2022 2:37 PM

I mean r139 We arent american.

by Anonymousreply 144July 10, 2022 2:38 PM

I don't fit OP's narrative but I don't dispute it generally, I am a 70 year white gay man, while I have never voted for a Republican but I would have if a good one came along. I use to watch Fox News occasionally but no more, I use to be one of those "we have to work with the right to get anything done" No more, Fuck the right because that is what they are trying to do to us. The right is a bunch of racist hating fucking assholes who want to turn this country into a Christian/fascist theocracy and anyone who doesn't realize that is a fool. Fox News is destroying this country, and working with the right only gets their ideas passed not ours.

So what I am saying is I don't know why anyone is conservative, they are a bunch of nasty ass hating bigots.

by Anonymousreply 145July 10, 2022 2:45 PM

R38 "That said, there is SO much injustice in the USA of 2022 . . ."

Yep. So many guys with guns going around shooting people. That's injustice.

Like the armed and murderous squeegee "workers" in Baltimore the NYT excused as "'squeegee kids,' young people who clean the windshields of cars stopped at red lights, often without permission, in the hopes of scoring a few dollars in return. The young people, who are often living in poverty, say the practice is a lifeline." A murder or two: understandable in that context to provide a lifeline for those living in poverty.

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by Anonymousreply 146July 10, 2022 2:50 PM

I don’t get the logic behind the statement I’ve read several times here that older people don’t want young people to have the opportunity we had to succeed. Can one of the young people who feel that way explain?

by Anonymousreply 147July 10, 2022 3:52 PM

R147 Well one example is home ownership. That's increasingly out of reach for young people and older people are more likely to own a home.

First home buyers are priced out of the market and older folks don't want their property prices to drop (which would help young buyers out) since often it's part of their retirement plan.

Housing was not nearly as expensive 50 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 148July 10, 2022 3:58 PM

R148 Thinking that home prices are where they are because "older folks don't want their property prices to drop" shows a lack of understanding of basic economics worthy of AOC herself. But hey, you're welcome to sell your place at a 25 percent discount to some poor and deserving folk. Do your part to spread the American Dream.

by Anonymousreply 149July 10, 2022 4:05 PM

I was going to say, R149, market economics weren't taught in that collective learning circle.

by Anonymousreply 150July 10, 2022 4:11 PM

R149. House prices aren't where they are because older folks don't want their property prices to drop. That would be silly.

But older folks are disincentivized to sell during dips in the market (naturally) so first home buyers can't necessarily take advantage of those. Inevitably the pressure of demand drives up prices again, sometimes higher than before.

Not to mention a complete dearth of supply that I can lay at the feet of politicians and large companies intent on adding more rental properties to their portfolios.

But that attitude of, "I've got my house so go get yours" is perhaps why people are saying older folks don't want younger people to succeed. I don't have a home but my parents bought their first home in the 50s for a fraction of what it would be worth today.

I know my prospect of owning a house is unlikely.

by Anonymousreply 151July 10, 2022 4:16 PM

I don't think it's 'becoming more conservative' - as it is being more moderate and pragmatic. There is no 'conservative' value anymore that isn't fucking obscene and distorted.

Becoming more measured and moderate does NOT equal becoming more conservative. I've never understood this line of thinking.

Meanwhile most young conservatives go further right and become batshit crazy.

by Anonymousreply 152July 10, 2022 4:19 PM

I am old and in the house I can afford. I am retired and have neither need nor reason to sell. Why should we olds sell our homes to you young’uns?

by Anonymousreply 153July 10, 2022 4:20 PM

[quote]I don't have a home but my parents bought their first home in the 50s for a fraction of what it would be worth today.

In New Jersey, the median home value in 1950 was $10,408. Adjusted for inflation at time of writing (October 2021) $118,145. The median home value in 2019: $348,800.

In 1950, the household median income in the U.S. in 1950 was $2,990 — roughly 40% of the median home value of $7,354 at the time, according to census data. By 2010, household median income was $49,445 — or 22% of the $221,800 median home value. The median income in 2021 hovers around the same percentage of median home costs.

People lived differently. They made different choices. It's not just housing was cheaper back in the old days. Parents probably paid off their mortgages, which seem unbelievably small from the 1950s, over twenty-five and thirty years then, too.

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by Anonymousreply 154July 10, 2022 4:24 PM

R153. You shouldn't unless you want to downsize. Nobody's going to force you. And I'm sure some older folks want to pass their houses onto their kids.

It's just a bit of a shame because many young people, parents and families are now living as permanent renters without that sense of housing security. Especially with how greedy and temperamental landlords can be.

And they're missing out on how valuable an asset a house can be for securing their own futures.

That's why young people feel that way, fair or not.

by Anonymousreply 155July 10, 2022 4:25 PM

Re: housing: That is oversimplifying

Olds need that money for health care, nursing homes, and/or long-term care. Who is going to care for them, 24/7, where will they live, unless they can afford to pay for care? With their younger relatives? Many times nowadays, those younger relatives are unable or unwilling to care for them as they need and they certainly do not have the extra income to pay for medication/hospital bills for the elder, as needed.

I'm sure many olds wouldn't be opposed to selling their homes /property but how would THEY live and care for themselves? Every year, the Republicans want to cut Social Security. The higher cost of living for food and utilities hits them, too. And, olds have more hospital bills and medication costs than any other demographic.

Are some olds selfish? Sure. Are all olds selfish? I don't think so, at all. I believe they are just doing what they have to do to survive like many other people.

Every Old should be voting DEMOCRAT, as they at least give a fuck about them. See, also: the Republican's response to COVID ->>throw the Olds under the bus and them admitting they are going to shut down Social Security.

by Anonymousreply 156July 10, 2022 4:27 PM

I agree R156. Turning older folks against younger ones (and vice-versa) seems like another tactic from the GOP who want to raid Social Security to pad the wallets of their corporate sponsors.

by Anonymousreply 157July 10, 2022 4:31 PM

[...]

by Anonymousreply 158July 10, 2022 4:34 PM

Re: Housing

There is plenty of affordable housing, it just in areas where the people looking for homes don't want to live; or the house doesn't have all the amenities that people want. Home-buying is about being realistic and sacrifice. It's kind of like how no one wants to start in the mail room anymore. People who are looking for McMansions in the perfect school district don't seem to understand that lifestyle comes with a premium price.

Look in an older neighborhood or a changing neighborhood, you may not get a man cave or she shed or granite countertops, but you'll find an affordable house that will get you on the road.

by Anonymousreply 159July 10, 2022 4:34 PM

I'm not going to say this is true but ask it. Do the youngs have realistic expectations about the kind of house or location they can afford? If they can afford anything. I recognize the change in the economy has made full time work tricker for some.

by Anonymousreply 160July 10, 2022 4:38 PM

Yep, looking only at home prices and forgetting that people are living longer and more likely to need a vast amount for care.

Plus ignoring the tax rule that keeps many from selling. If your gain is over the exempt amount -- and for a great many it is -- you'll pay capital gains tax when you sell. But if the home's sold after you die, the tax will be wiped out.

The real world is not so simple!

by Anonymousreply 161July 10, 2022 4:39 PM

That's a great point, R157, that Republicans are using Olds vs. Young to get Olds to vote for them and against their own interests.

Republicans vote against lowering drug prices. Who does that hurt the most? OLDS

Republicans want to abolish Social Security. Who does that hurt the most? OLDS

Republicans fight against every little bit of economic progress for 98% of the American population. Who does that hurt? 98% of Americans, including the OLDS.

by Anonymousreply 162July 10, 2022 4:40 PM

R159. I think people have a pretty realistic idea of what it takes to buy a house. Hell, most first home buyers aren't actually young, they're 44. And young people are already making sacrifices so they can afford housing with 60% of first-home buyers being childless.

I don't think expectations are the issue so much. It's also difficult to convince people to buy something where nobody wants to live since the ability to re-sell it and potentially get your money back isn't guaranteed since... you know... nobody wants to live there.

by Anonymousreply 163July 10, 2022 4:42 PM

[quote] It's also difficult to convince people to buy something where nobody wants to live since the ability to re-sell it and potentially get your money back isn't guaranteed since... you know... nobody wants to live there.

That's the very definition of an expectation.

by Anonymousreply 164July 10, 2022 4:45 PM

R164. It's a sensible one though. Why would people live in the middle of nowhere only to potentially lose money on a house? Just to get on the property ladder?

What does that accomplish if you can't sell it because no other first-home buyer wants to buy it? I suppose it gives them that housing security but part of that security is the prospect of being able to sell the house at a reasonable price (even if they do lose a little money) if they need to liquidate assets or move for jobs or whatever.

In a scenario where you're stuck with a house you didn't really want and nobody is willing to buy, you might as well rent and have the flexibility to move.

A cultural shift might change that but nobody wants to be the pioneer and end up trapped in a house with your debt for years on end.

by Anonymousreply 165July 10, 2022 4:52 PM

Sometimes you have to take a chance and hope for the best. Look at all of those gays who moved into crappy neighborhoods and changed them with hope, disposable income, and some fabulousness. While they eventually got booted out by young straights with young families and strollers, they tripled their investments.

by Anonymousreply 166July 10, 2022 4:53 PM

R166. I suppose. Maybe young people just aren't that adventurous anymore.

by Anonymousreply 167July 10, 2022 4:55 PM

You're talking about the biggest investment most people will be making in their life. Who on earth wouldn't be prudent as can be.

by Anonymousreply 168July 10, 2022 4:59 PM

Selfishness is the only reason anyone is ever conservative or becomes conservative.

by Anonymousreply 169July 10, 2022 5:04 PM

There is a difference between being prudent and being picky. I get a young family wanting to move into a neighborhood with good schools. But, if you're a single first time homebuyer, you can usually afford to take some chances. I bought my first house after years of renting. I didn't want the responsibility of a house and wall that came with it until I found a house that I fell in love with. Now that I'm a homeowner, along with the headaches comes some nice privileges that you don't realize are available to you until you're actually in the game.

by Anonymousreply 170July 10, 2022 5:06 PM

[quote]Selfishness

Narrow thinking.

by Anonymousreply 171July 10, 2022 5:07 PM

R169 Mao couldn't change his own selfish nature. Much less the nature of a billion Chinese. But he put a country through Hell trying.

Best you learn from history.

by Anonymousreply 172July 10, 2022 5:08 PM

R163, I get your frustration and I empathize, but there's a whole whack of the world owes you something in your reasoning and the fact is, it just doesn't. That's how it works. If you want differently, you need a home loan program through government or something. But fighting the market doesn't work. And I imagine you wouldn't be complaining if the market crashes and the house you can't afford is suddenly affordable.

by Anonymousreply 173July 10, 2022 5:10 PM

Part of the problem is that people used to look at a house as a home, some place to live. You sold it when you died or aged out and you got back most or all or some profit from the rent you'd been paying yourself through the mortgage.

Now a house is an investment that is meant to secure a certain return. Stocks don't work that way, why should housing?

by Anonymousreply 174July 10, 2022 5:12 PM

R173 Nope, it's the mindset of some people who'll always find a reason not to buy even if prices drop 30 percent. But different people, different perceptions, that's what makes a market.

by Anonymousreply 175July 10, 2022 5:14 PM

Resentment of the young(er), dissatisfaction with their lives.

by Anonymousreply 176July 10, 2022 5:22 PM

If you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart. If you're still a liberal at 60 you have no brain.

by Anonymousreply 177July 10, 2022 7:14 PM

Nothing to do with aging. Everything to do with self image.

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by Anonymousreply 178July 10, 2022 7:18 PM

[quote]Housing was not nearly as expensive 50 years ago.

The spread between housing costs and income became wider from about 1980, but it grew to something akin to today's disparity only from the start of this century. 22 years, not 50 years. And not 72 years...

[quote]In New Jersey, the median home value in 1950 was $10,408. Adjusted for inflation at time of writing (October 2021) $118,145. The median home value in 2019: $348,800

I know R154 was responding to another poster about his parents having bought a house in the 1950s, but who on Data lounge was buying houses 72 years ago? Not fucking many.

[quote]Now a house is an investment that is meant to secure a certain return.

Absolutely. It's a fundamental difference. But another fundamental difference is that 50, 40, even 30 years ago, people started on their property ladder with a place they could afford or almost afford with the idea of improving the property. They bought old houses to restore or renovate, not always in the very best neighborhoods, on the hope that time and improvements and a rise in neighborhood desirability would pay off. They knew that if they insisted on everything being in perfect condution, up to the minute on every design trend, in their dream location, and their "forever house" (until the next forever house came along), that they would never get a foot on the property ladder. They nade compromised and bought what they could be afford, where they could afford, and fully intending to make substantial improvements.

Timing is never unimportant, but neither is a dose of practicality and intelligent buying based on more than the color of a kitchen backsplash. Impossible standards can really aggravate a budget that isn't a dream to match a dream house.

Gay men who have been trading up houses for 30, 40, 50 years benefited from timing in most cases, but they also benefited from starting with properties they wouldn't dream of living in today but where what they scrambled to afford then, or bought in neighborhoods that were not 1st, 2nd, or 3rd choice.

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by Anonymousreply 179July 10, 2022 9:05 PM

I become more liberal with each passing year

by Anonymousreply 180July 11, 2022 12:48 AM

Maybe a liberal who has lost all hope that anything will ever get better just looks like a conservative to the woke.

by Anonymousreply 181July 11, 2022 1:07 AM

[quote]I don’t get the logic behind the statement I’ve read several times here that older people don’t want young people to have the opportunity we had to succeed. Can one of the young people who feel that way explain?

Remind us what the tax rate was for the wealthy up until the 80s. Remind us what Union benefits were like before the 90s. Remind us what health insurance was like. There's your answer as to what old people had and young people don't.

by Anonymousreply 182July 11, 2022 2:12 AM

Two separate factors.

First, the portion of the brain that correlates cause-and-effect and consequences with actions is among the last to develop and mature in the brain. This is why people who are young(er) are much greater risk-takers in general.

Second, as you get older, you have a lot more to lose. You become more concerned about protecting what you have in addition to having less time to make it up if something goes wrong. You become more afraid of losing what you spent your entire life to create.

When you combine these, becoming more conservative becomes inevitable if new opinions appear to threaten the status quo.

by Anonymousreply 183July 11, 2022 2:12 AM

[quote]To stop waste and too many 'freebies' getting out of hand, give people who are on social service programs, a time frame to get their lives in order, to get a well-paying job. That starts with training programs. It's not as difficult as the politicians claim it is.

Boy bye. I know plenty of able-bodied people on assistance who simply just don't [bold]want[/bold] to do better. In fact, a lot of them are like that. They don't want to work. They don't want to get an education. You could offer to pay for a whole-ass trade school education and these mfs still would rather sit on their ass and spend other people's money. Obviously, not everyone on assistance is like this. But damn it, I've grown up around enough of that foolishness to become jaded about the shit at this point.

I think it's easier if you grew up in a mostly privileged suburban area where you're far removed from what's really going on with a lot of the individuals who are in poverty. It's easier to look at that situation with pity and yes, it is sad. But what's even sadder is when you have those who have gotten "comfortable" with receiving handouts. Or, they don't "trust the system" and prefer to "hustle" for money doing dumb shit.

You are correct in that America, as wealthy as we are, has no excuse to have people living in poverty and struggling. However, a lot of those people are in that situation due to bad choices, and a lot of them stay in that situation because our government gives them no incentive to do better by becoming self-sufficient.

"The working man is a sucka." -- A Bronx Tale

^There are literally people who think like this. And most of them are "about that life." If it sounds like I've "given up" on the poor...yeeeah, I sort of have. Because I grew up around them, in the ghetto. And the things I've personally seen was mostly people living in entirely avoidable circumstances. I fully acknowledge my biases in that regard. But when you have people from actual war-torn impoverished nations fighting to get into this country and actually willing to work to better themselves and get a better life while lazy-ass Americans prefer to mooch off of others, yeah, my sympathy died in like '05, bruh lol.

by Anonymousreply 184July 11, 2022 4:33 AM

Idealism if for the sheltered and inexperienced. As you get out in the world and see how people really are and how things really work you begin to understand that things are not so simple. Life in the real world changes people.

by Anonymousreply 185July 11, 2022 6:18 AM

As I've gotten out in the world, I've learned how much more awful conservatives really are.

by Anonymousreply 186July 11, 2022 12:54 PM

There's an old saying:

If you're young and your not progressive, you don't have a heart. If you're old and you're not conservative, you don't have a brain.

by Anonymousreply 187July 11, 2022 1:05 PM

And there's an old saying much repeated: see R38, R89, R177, and R187.

by Anonymousreply 188July 11, 2022 1:09 PM

That quote is so dumb and made even dumber by the people who repeat it over and over and over again like no one has ever heard that stupid fucking quote.

by Anonymousreply 189July 11, 2022 3:11 PM

Churchill did not say that.

by Anonymousreply 190July 11, 2022 3:14 PM

I've met enough people in my life to know that one's age is not a determinant for knowledge. If anything, most of the ignorance I hear, comes from older people.

by Anonymousreply 191July 11, 2022 3:26 PM

If you are concerned about what type of world future generations will live in, you are probably liberal. If you are worried about yourself or your children, you are probably conservative. It's all about the future distribution of resources.

Why do you think that whites have institutionally killed trans generational wealth by minorities?

Resource distribution.

by Anonymousreply 192December 6, 2022 12:19 PM

I'm proud to say I wouldn't know since this doesn't apply to me. I've moved to the left as I've gotten older, because life experience has taught me that the majority of people struggle because the ultra-wealthy are greedy, immoral and destructive to life on this planet.

by Anonymousreply 193December 6, 2022 12:33 PM

I’m a moderate democrat and always have been since I identified my political beliefs in HS. I’m in my 30s so maybe I will become more liberal or conservative with age, but no movement yet in ~20 years

by Anonymousreply 194December 6, 2022 1:37 PM

As we age, we change and get set in our idea of how things should be and how they should run; it's familiar and comfortable. For example : when I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down, look at the menu, and order. Now, I have to get a smartphone, download an app, scan a barcode, and try to read the tiny letters on the phone. I was comfortable with the way things were and don't understand why such a seemingly easy task has become so complicated. My life doesn't depend on having a phone in my hand 24/7. I was always taught the difference between boys and girls. Being gay, I also realized that sexual orientation was not a choice, and my friends and I fought for just the right to exist as gays in this society. Now, I am bombarded by pronouns, choosing to identify as a different gender, and the way some go back and forth ( now I'm lesbian, now I'm non binary, now I'm straight). Politically, I can't abide by the extremes on either side, but am called a "racist" or "fascist" if I dare criticize the far left, or a " communist" if I criticize the far right. I don't understand the whole reparations thing, and I don't understand the acceptance of traitors who attempt to overthrow the government. I am afraid of crime, since I no longer am physically fit to fight back and am afraid to carry a gun or any weapon. Yet, I see nothing being done to address this, although one political party screams about the other being too soft on crime. If seniors have this as their primary fear, they will vote for the side which pretends to care. I wanted to be liberal, but it's so difficult. I had always voted as an Independent, but stopped when the Republicans got into bed with the Christian extremists. Many of my generation function on fear and believe much of what is said on television and in the news, since we were brought up to trust institutions. Walter Cronkite was the most trusted person we knew. Since so many are struggling to make ends meet, fear of financial problems govern much of the thinking. Fox News seems to be the trusted name now, because it espouses what many of this generation believe is a return to the simpler life, not realizing that they are being cynically manipulated by the network. Once again, being brought up to trust institutions, what is on Fox must be true for a great number of seniors. What do you think is more effective in forming political stances: there are two genders or " I identify as woman, so, even though I am a biological man, I demand the right to compete in women's sporting events"? But, they also are afraid of anything that threatens Social Security, which is conveniently ignored by Fox. People get more conservative as they get older in an attempt to keep what they believe they have earned, and will oppose anything that threatens that. But, the older generations still, deep down, are much too trusting, because that's the way we were brought up.

by Anonymousreply 195December 6, 2022 2:21 PM

It's odd because they always vote against their own interests. Conservative politics is not friendly towards the elderly.

by Anonymousreply 196December 6, 2022 2:29 PM

I feel like a lot of these answers are off.

I think it has to do with the fact that most of the hippies and punks and rebels all came from conservative families and once they go through their rebellious liberal phase, they finally conform to how they were raised.

I was raised in a household where nothing was politically pushed on me and religion was mandatory on holidays but even that didn’t last.

I didn’t have a sexist, racist, homophobic parents. I didn’t come from that type of household.

I’m 35 and my views haven’t changed. I think I’ve become even more open minded the older I’ve gotten. I’m definitely not a radical liberal of today and have been called a Trump supporter / Nazi because I don’t believe the sky is polka dot because they say so.

But I certainly don’t have conservative or traditional views because I just wasn’t raised that way and never lived that way.

Most people who become conservative when they’re older are simply reverting back to what they were taught when there’s no longer a reason to rebel against it.

by Anonymousreply 197December 6, 2022 2:35 PM

If you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart. If you're still a liberal at 60 you have no brains.

by Anonymousreply 198December 6, 2022 2:37 PM

^READ THE FUCKIN THREAD OLD MAN

by Anonymousreply 199December 6, 2022 2:38 PM

Because believe it or not there are some things to embrace about conservatism. That's what they don't teach you in college. In fact, they treat you like a nazi if you do. We are not all equal and we don't have all have the same work ethic. And government can be pretty dam incompetent when it comes to running big cities.

Never think in a box. Always fight for civil rights. Common sense and intellect are not mutually exclusive.

by Anonymousreply 200December 6, 2022 2:38 PM

R200 Civil rights and conservatism don’t go together. It wasn’t conservatives who were in favor of civil rights.

by Anonymousreply 201December 6, 2022 2:40 PM

My guess: You spent a big part of your life fighting/changing rules and the status quo, and then "some new generation" comes and thinks it should all be done anew all over again!

by Anonymousreply 202December 6, 2022 2:41 PM

[quote]As one gets older one becomes more fearful and insecure.

I think this is an excellent point, though I feel more fearful for many things, like the environment. I'm genuinely scared of some overheated world without water & places that have become unlivable. I don't get the "fuck that shit, all be dead by the time all that happens" mentality.

by Anonymousreply 203December 6, 2022 2:47 PM

R202 But I don’t think they fight for anything.

I think the liberalism is a form of rebellion for a lot of people and then once they get comfortable, they go back.

I remember someone said about the Riot Grrrls in the 90’s - they all joined bands and the feminist movement because they didn’t want to work and stopped as soon as they got married and settled into suburbia.

That’s kind of how it works in the big picture for most people.

It’s like post-teenage rebellion.

But for liberals who stay liberal, it’s cause they weren’t rebelling against anything.

Like I said I’m liberal. I don’t find any of my views radical or rebellious so they’re not going to change. My views didn’t come from an angry teenage phase.

Like I was raised Catholic (but not really that was just my family’s religion) and I declared myself an atheist as a teenager. I guess that was my rebellion. But I think I became more liberal when I understood that it’s ok for people to be religious and shouldn’t judge them for it.

And I know there’s a lot of angry atheists out there and they get that from their conservative upbringing. Just like the radical lgbt movement, it might be liberal but they adopt the angry conservative mindset they were raised with, just with liberal views.

by Anonymousreply 204December 6, 2022 2:55 PM

I haven't gotten more conservative, but I do find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of nonsense as I've gotten older.

by Anonymousreply 205December 6, 2022 3:04 PM

I can understand that r205, but these days there just seems to be so much more nonsense on the right. And more dangerous. The whole nonbinary thing seems stupid to me, but it's not dangerous in the way that baboons shrieking about their love of fascism and their hatred of drag queens is.

by Anonymousreply 206December 6, 2022 3:13 PM

I cannot believe how many times that stupid fucking quote has been posted. Shows how many conservatives there are on this supposedly gay website.

by Anonymousreply 207December 6, 2022 3:14 PM

I’m 58 and I’ve become more liberal with each passing day

by Anonymousreply 208December 6, 2022 3:16 PM

[quote] but I do find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of nonsense as I've gotten older.

Translation: You find the Nazis on the right easy for you to ignore, but your views on Trans people are indistinguishable from theirs.

by Anonymousreply 209December 6, 2022 3:16 PM

Agree r207. Not sure what country you are in, but in the U.S. nobody looking at the average modern American conservative thinks it was intelligence that got them to that position.

by Anonymousreply 210December 6, 2022 3:18 PM

What R209? Where in the hell did you pull Trans from? I made one statement about nonsense and you just assume I'm talking about trans? Get a life.

by Anonymousreply 211December 6, 2022 3:22 PM

Money, better living situations.

by Anonymousreply 212December 6, 2022 3:24 PM

R13 I wish I read your post before I hastily posted. But yes, you're right and describe where I'm at in this stage of life.

by Anonymousreply 213December 6, 2022 3:27 PM

Money and fear come up a lot, but it is those that make me lean toward the "liberal" policies of the safety net and the welfare state. Some collectivism makes for a safer and saner society. Everyone running around risking it all and praying that they are one of the lucky few who "make it" seems like a really shitty ideal for any society.

I like the old American dream, that if you are reasonably good and responsible you can have enough. I don't like the new American dream, that if you are awesome and obsessive and perfect (and let's not forget lucky) you can be one of the few billionaires and not one of the many miserable wage slaves, scraping by.

by Anonymousreply 214December 6, 2022 3:41 PM

I think Op's original assumption is wrong. If anything, I've become more liberal as I age

by Anonymousreply 215December 6, 2022 3:45 PM

One of my fuck buddies who came from a northeast conservative family told me he tried being a liberal in college, early 20s but was tired of being told he was racist by black people.

by Anonymousreply 216December 6, 2022 3:48 PM

[quote] that if you are awesome and obsessive and perfect (and let's not forget lucky)

How did you leave out "immoral?"

by Anonymousreply 217December 6, 2022 3:50 PM

[quote] but was tired of being told he was racist by black people. but was tired of being told he was racist by black people.

You save some time by just typing "but he was racist."

by Anonymousreply 218December 6, 2022 3:51 PM

That's not a strict requirement r217, just strongly encouraged.

by Anonymousreply 219December 6, 2022 3:51 PM

No, I don't think it's possible to become a billionaire without being immoral on some level. Wage theft is a big part of it.

by Anonymousreply 220December 6, 2022 4:41 PM

I don't know if that's true. I care more about social justice now in my 40s than I did when I was younger. I also think we need a substantial policy change if we want to handle climate change and this - in my opinion - can only come through innovation. Nuclear energy can buy us a couple of decades there. Climate change activists are a doomsday cult and the left is hard-against nuclear here. I usually vote for a very left very fringe party here that mostly focuses on digital infrastructure. The center left has just made itself unacceptable to me (and I will never vote conservative or alt right). (Greetings from Germany)

by Anonymousreply 221December 6, 2022 4:48 PM

[quote] One of my fuck buddies who came from a northeast conservative family told me he tried being a liberal in college, early 20s but was tired of being told he was racist by black people.

Racists tend to feel that way

by Anonymousreply 222December 6, 2022 5:31 PM

[quote] No, I don't think it's possible to become a billionaire without being immoral on some level. Wage theft is a big part of it.

All great wealth involves theft at some level

by Anonymousreply 223December 6, 2022 5:31 PM

From my view, there are two types of people: those for whom growing old means a reining in, closing the shutters on life and the outside world, reducing risk, living in the memory of the past; and there are those for whom growing old means seizing the time left to be bold and thinking of now and the future and how to put that time to use.

The first group grow more conservative, the second group grow more liberal -- politically and in a broader sense.

by Anonymousreply 224December 6, 2022 5:41 PM

You get sick if wasteful programs for the homeless, because you realize they are actually making the situation worse. Plus as you get older, you appreciate calm rational thinkers rather than left-wing or right-wing blowhards. People like Liz Cheney, Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger seem like what Democrats used to be.

by Anonymousreply 225December 6, 2022 5:51 PM

[quote]You get sick if wasteful programs for the homeless, because you realize they are actually making the situation worse.

What are you referring to, specifically?

[quote]People like Liz Cheney, Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger seem like what Democrats used to be.

You seem quite confused. Every one of them is to the right of Ronald Reagan.

by Anonymousreply 226December 6, 2022 6:02 PM

…because blue hair and imaginary friends aren’t cute!

by Anonymousreply 227December 6, 2022 6:17 PM

I’m not more conservative at 56 than I was at 30. But I am definitely less left wing than I was in college or grad school. I attribute the evolution as a result of two things (1) adult conflictive development and (2) exposure to the real world through work and exposure to the broader world. Those less than 25 are more prone to dualistic (black/white) thinking, and I think I see a more nuanced world than I did as a young Democratic Socialist of 19.

by Anonymousreply 228December 6, 2022 6:31 PM

Fucking typo at r228. Should be adult COGNITIVE not conflict development.

by Anonymousreply 229December 6, 2022 6:33 PM

Older people didn't need a caveat before enjoying " Blazing Saddles," since we didn't have the snowflake cancel culture.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 230December 6, 2022 10:31 PM

Your neurololgical brain structures diminish and weaken slowly, leaving only the most primitive mechanisms behind

by Anonymousreply 231December 7, 2022 9:56 AM

[quote]Older people didn't need a caveat before enjoying " Blazing Saddles," since we didn't have the snowflake cancel culture.

Well, that goes a long way toward answering OP's question. R230 see R231.

by Anonymousreply 232December 7, 2022 9:59 AM

I was a liberal as a young adult. But in my middle age I became a conservative when I inherited an estate in the tens of millions.

My parents didn't work this hard to establish generational wealth so I could pay exorbitant taxes to support 30 year old meth grandmas in Florida. Don't get me wrong, I donate generously to charities that help people overcome various issues, but I'm not about to provide funding to the unwashed masses "just because" they want subsist on handouts and not do anything to earn them. They need to put in the work to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. My parents were in that same position when they were younger and got their shit together. And I was expected to be a contributing member of society in order to get what I have passed down.

by Anonymousreply 233December 7, 2022 11:32 AM

R233, that's fine just tell me you aren't a Maga

by Anonymousreply 234December 7, 2022 1:04 PM

R232, nice try, but your response makes absolutely no sense, unless you are a member of the snowflake cancel culture.

by Anonymousreply 235December 7, 2022 1:20 PM

Young people are often idealists, hence liberals. Older people often become pragmatists, hence conservatives…

by Anonymousreply 236December 7, 2022 3:22 PM

from Blazing Saddles

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 237December 7, 2022 3:28 PM

[quote] the conservative part of me acknowledges that nature plays a huge role as well and that some people are naturally going to be the products of their nurturing environment that is influenced by the nature of the people in those environments.

What?

by Anonymousreply 238December 7, 2022 3:31 PM

R234 - definitely not a MAGA. I loathe those people with every fiber in my being.

by Anonymousreply 239December 7, 2022 4:48 PM

I haven’t OP. I was anti choice as a youngster, having been brainwashed by Catholicism, and decades later I’m pro choice. We aren’t all regressing.

by Anonymousreply 240December 7, 2022 4:59 PM

I got more liberal as I got older too r240, but in fairness I think we are the minority. It is true that some kinds of "conservatism" does set in for a lot of people as they get older, and partly it's just having more assets and fewer and fewer options as you get older. Preservation becomes more of a priority, and some of that is reasonable.

What is unreasonable is voting for the Right, at least in the U.S. (Europe may or may not be different, not sure). But in the U.S. the Right politically is crazed and bitter and lashing out in all directions. Fear-based, but not in a calm, cautious way, more in a panic. Terrified that white people are losing status, Christianity is losing control of the population, particularly over women, and convinced that any taxation of the rich will lead inevitably to gulags and guillotines.

Voting as a Centrist Democrat seems to be the real way to be cautious, preserving the gains that have been made but reluctant to embrace radical new ideas. These days voting Republican is more about a Burn It All Down and start over philosophy.

by Anonymousreply 241December 7, 2022 5:05 PM

I don’t think people change that dramatically, except for types like Jon Voight that went from Coming Home to Rightwing Nutjob.

by Anonymousreply 242December 7, 2022 5:14 PM

We need a maximum voting age. I propose 72. After that you have no voting rights because it's the people with actual futures who should decide the future, not ossified octogenarians who shifted far to the right once dementia set it.

by Anonymousreply 243December 7, 2022 6:27 PM

It's shit like this... The Voice is obviously racist because it has no black finalists. It does have a man named Omar José Cardona, but he's not representative enough, because the minority contestant must be black. Everything is explained by claiming racism.... only one way, however.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 244December 8, 2022 12:24 AM

I don't know about becoming more conservative, but I would say that people put aside fantasy and become more realistic as they get older. I guess that could shift them to being conservative.

by Anonymousreply 245December 8, 2022 12:37 AM

[quote] Get back to me in 10 years though.

R20 It's now two months since you made that admission. Have you changed since then?

Are you any more inclined to give some of your money away to others?

by Anonymousreply 246December 8, 2022 3:18 AM

I’ve become more conservative in some ways but more liberal in others. I think it’s just based on what you’ve seen in your life.

by Anonymousreply 247December 8, 2022 4:20 AM

R230 Older people also engaged in racism heavily. “Blazing Saddles” came out 9 years after Jim Crow laws ended in the US.

by Anonymousreply 248December 8, 2022 4:29 AM

Oooh back in my day we didn’t care about racism.

Yeah no shit.

by Anonymousreply 249December 8, 2022 4:30 AM

[quote] “Blazing Saddles”

R248, are you suggesting that film was important in gauging the moral-superiority of the typical intelligent American audience.

by Anonymousreply 250December 8, 2022 4:40 AM

R233 you didn't earn that money either so I don't know why you are looking down your nose at welfare rats. You are equal to them.

by Anonymousreply 251December 8, 2022 4:44 AM

R82 What's even worse is when a cunt like Alex Jones who owns multiple houses criticizes Bernie for having multiple houses! Not only is Jones bugfuck crazy ,he is a hypocritically insane piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 252December 8, 2022 4:45 AM

And Jones is fat! And he's ugly. And his mother is ugly!

He makes me SO mad!

by Anonymousreply 253December 8, 2022 4:46 AM

R233. Why don't you just admit you're selfish rather than using the tired, silly,, transparent lie that a significant share of government spending goes to the poor, much less poor meth addicts. The vast majority of government spending is on defence, interest on public debt, and programs for the elderly. It's gone to want to keep the money you lucked into, just don't use stupid, unfactual arguments to justify it.

by Anonymousreply 254December 8, 2022 1:10 PM

If your parents started with nothing and had tens of millions to leave you, some crime was going on r233. What was it? Drugs? Arms? The corrupt finance industry? What was happening there?

by Anonymousreply 255December 9, 2022 1:46 AM

I would love to know what people think conservatism is, both politically and culturally.

by Anonymousreply 256December 9, 2022 1:48 AM

They become smarter OP. I look back at some of the risks I took when I was younger a time when most feel invincible and realize I'm lucky to be alive and you learn from yours and others' mistakes.

by Anonymousreply 257December 9, 2022 2:53 AM

[quote] I would love to know what people think conservatism

I never use that word as a noun or adjective.

I use the word 'sensible'.

by Anonymousreply 258December 9, 2022 3:10 AM

Well that is fine r258. But it is a political word, really, deep down. Saying people get more sensible as they get older is possible, but it is about something else, and even that is probably often untrue.

I would agree most people get more and more fearful of risk as they get older. That does make sense, although oddly as you get closer and closer to death, maybe those risks and those costs might actually matter less.

by Anonymousreply 259December 9, 2022 3:15 AM

What is funny is that a lot of people get more religious as they get older and closer to death, but that is very much moving less and less toward realism and more and more toward fantasy.

by Anonymousreply 260December 9, 2022 3:18 AM

[quote] I would love to know what people think conservatism

I don't know the meaning of the word!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 261December 9, 2022 4:37 AM

I think it is fear, and I think it is a natural but sad consequence of aging. I watched it happen to my parents, even my beautiful, liberal mother. They didn't go crazy with it and I think that may be because my siblings and I stayed close with them until they died, it helped keep them in touch with younger people and ideas. People getting older, getting sick and dealing with it on their own I imagine are the cornerstone of Fox News audience.

by Anonymousreply 262December 9, 2022 11:06 AM

Let's also acknowledge that in 2022, a lot of people of all ages are programmed what to believe by conservative media like Fox news (see R233), from which a significant number move on to OAN, then QAnon, drifting further right as they go. It's not just old people, but a lot of old people follow this trajectory too.

Some old folks sit with Fox News on from the time they wake up til the time they go to bed, and over time it changes them. They're glued to a constant stream of manufactured outrage (like high schoolers using litterboxes) and other fake news and it sends them over the edge. They become obsessed with whatever Fox and the right wing rage machine is churning out at the moment, and they believe every word of it.

Old people used to grow conservative as they ages

by Anonymousreply 263December 9, 2022 11:59 AM

I don’t know that your statement is accurate OP- just an opinion.

by Anonymousreply 264December 9, 2022 12:24 PM

If you’re conservative when you’re young you have no heart. If you’re liberal when you’re old yo have no brain.

Now in 2022 things have drifted so far right I’m changing it to if you’re conservative when you’re young you’re a cunt. If you’re conservative when you’re old you’re still a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 265December 9, 2022 12:35 PM

The terms liberal and conservative are meaningless in the US.

by Anonymousreply 266December 9, 2022 12:38 PM

[quote] I think it is fear, and I think it is a natural but sad consequence of aging

More like the left is just as batshit crazy as the right. They don’t even believe in biology.

by Anonymousreply 267December 9, 2022 12:39 PM

R265 read the fucking thread. Your moronic quote has been posted about 15 times.

by Anonymousreply 268December 9, 2022 1:39 PM
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