Gloria (1982-1983)- why did this “All In The Family” spin-off only last one season?

It only lasted one season because it wasn’t funny.

Because I didn’t sing the theme song.

R1 while I don’t think it was funny either, the ratings were good. That’s what the network would care about.

Lou Richards was a cutie.

I have three words for you. Sally Fucking Struthers.

It just wasn't well done.

The people involved weren't any of the people who had done the good original AITF episodes. Sally and Carroll apparently fell out after she said she didn't want references to AITF characters in the new show.

Archie Bunker's Place had some decent moments as it still had some of the AITF people involved, but this was more like Family Matters or some equally heinous sitcom.

Wasn't funny.

R6- I agree. Archie Bunker's Place was not a good show but it was still a significantly better show than GLORIA.

Maybe it's just the lighting, but Gloria's weight seems to fluctuate about 70 pounds throughout the opening credits. Was she fat on the show?

The early 80s were a hard time for us old sitcom queens...

Struthers guest spots on Archie Bunkers Place were some of the best episodes. She looked beautiful too.

From IMDB:

Why this show was cancelled

rmkauser 17 April 2018

Someone here asked if anyone knows why Gloria was canceled. I worked on the show as Burgess Merefith's assistant. The show was canceled because Sally Struthers blew off an interview with TV Guide. Also, Carroll O'Connor was a producer and lost control of his vision for the show which included plans for Archie and Gloria to appear on each other's show on occasion. Though the ratings were healthy, the writing was sub-par. O'Connor and Meredith were best friends and they both were fed up with the show and it's many deficiencies. So, it was canceled for political reasons and artistic shortcomings.

I liked Denise Miller on ABP.

R12

Huh?

Some rando on IMDb claims the show was canceled because struthers blew off a TV guide interview and that O’Connor “lost control” of the show as a producer.

Sally blew a TV Guide interviewer?

R9- That’s because she was in the process of becoming a GREAT BIG FAT PERSON

[quote]The show was canceled because Sally Struthers blew off an interview with TV Guide.

I was on my way to the damn interview, but there was a taco truck in the parking lot.

JFC, I was hypoglycemic - it's a medical condition!

^ I totally get that Sally...so much prejudice!

There still has yet to be a good show set in veterinary clinic.

^ and snack purses hadn't been invented yet.

A big problem with the show was the conception. The storyline was that Mike ran off to some commune with one of his female students. Anyone who followed AITF knew how untrue to the character that was. Mike, in fact, was likely becoming very conservative. It was easy to understand why he would have divorced Gloria since it seemed the only thing they had in common was sex and their antagonism with Archie. Once both of those were removed, they had nothing to keep them together. However, no way would Mike have left Joey.

At the time, it seemed as if I had a plenty of other opportunities...

In hindsight, maybe I should've gotten those tacos to go...

I remember watching this as a teen and enjoying it. Looking back, it was probably dreadful. The whole early 80s CBS Sunday night lineup was a staple on our family. Archie Bunker's Place, The Jeffersons, One Day at a Time, and Trapper John MD. They could never successfully fill that slot after ABP. Anyone remember Goodnight, Beantown with Bill Bixby and Mariette Hartley? That was a pretty good show, but couldn't hold ABP's audience.

OP, this wasn’t the final All in the Family spin-off. In the 90s, the Bunker house got its own spin-off - 704 Hauser. It didn’t even last a full season.

[quote] Sally blew a TV Guide interviewer?

Bullshit. Everyone who writes for TV Guide is a FAG!

R22 - True. But having Mike strangle Gloria and then toss her corpse into a woodchipper just to keep Joey was simply too dark for the early 80s.

Did Maude ever appear on her show?

R28 - No. Bea was busy flopping hard in her own 1982 failed sitcom, "Amanda's by the Sea". God finally got her.

She had to play Dolly in Hello Dolly! At the Burt Reynold’s dinner theatre

She had impoverished children in developing countries to advocate for.

The timing was bad.

It all came up just when the "Double-Fudge Brownie" Phase was slipping into the "Nonstop Triple-Chunk Macadamia Brownie with Fudge Icing and Cookie Crumbles Finished with a Hot-Caramel-Pot Fondue and a Quick Deep Fry and Whipped Cream and Meringue on Top" Epoch.

[quote] Did Maude ever appear on her show?

It would be decades later before we would see these two titans work together.

Disappointed audiences had expected Gena Rowlands.

Here is an article written by the NYT in May of 1983 which says that Archie Bunker's Place is being canceled. It also goes on to say that 5 of the 6 new series that were introduced by CBS in the Fall of 1982 were also being canceled, the only one to be renewed was Newhart. Except Gloria is not mentioned at all.

She had to focus on her singing career.

R29- Here you go

Someone in the comment about this video said Beatrice Arthur is somewhere between Maude and Dorothy. Which character is she more of in this show. I would say she's 2/3 Maude and perhaps 1/3 Dorothy.

I remember watching Amanda's. They paired it with an awful sitcom called "Condo" starring McLean Stevenson. Of course, a few years later, McLean would play Dorothy's brother-in-law Ted on an episode of GG.

She needed a gun...

R12 I like that there is still a back door into making comments like that on IMDb. I thought that IMDb shut all that down.

R38 Wasn’t McLean on something like a half a dozen failed shows after MASH? He was once the poster boy for squandering his opportunity in a hit series.

That behind the scenes drama with Carroll O'Connor - what happened reading into this is Embassy Television (who had taken control of Norman Lear's company Tandem Productions by this point- Embassy would later be folded into Columbia TriStar, later Sony Pictures Television) relocated the production from CBS's Television City studios in LA, where Archie Bunker had been filmed, to Universal Studios.

According to an interview later with Sally Struthers, aka Gloria, it didn't sit well with Carroll because Embassy shut him and the Archie Bunker's crew out, including Norman Lear. Hence why he wanted no part of it.

[quote]There still has yet to be a good show set in veterinary clinic.

Rick And Morty?

I thought Archie Bunker's Place was a pretty watchable show. Not as good as the parent show, but still pretty good. He has good chemistry with Martin Balsam and Anne Meara.

I actually liked ABP a lot more than I thought I would.

I never understood why Stapleton refused to come back.

I used to love The Jefferson’s

I had read years ago that when Archie Bunker's Place was cancelled they also cancelled Gloria as a nod to Carroll O'Connor. They didn't want her show to go on while his was cancelled so she got the axe too. Wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

R45 Jean Stapleton's character of Edith died on All In The Family. How on earth could she come back to ABP?!

She only died because Stapleton wanted out.

Luckily, she bounced right back with the smash hit "Nine To Five"- for 10 hilarious seasons and 7 Emmys!

Nine To Five was on for 6 years

The last spinoff inspired by AITF:

"Edith, Again" (1984-85)- Jean Stapleton reprises her iconic role this Fall on CBS, co-starring with Donnie Most and Susan Richardson as a young couple who purchase the Bunker home only to realize they have a ghost only they can see! And their precocious daughter (Aileen Quinn) is tickled to have a 'grandma'.

R2 I just got that

[quote]Wasn’t McLean on something like a half a dozen failed shows after MASH?

No, "Hello Larry" would've been a HUGE hit...

But some network executive got angry because I was schtupping his wife.

^ Well, maybe not as big as Sally Struthers got...but I could been BIG!

This is such an important thread. Thank you, OP.

To be very clear- Edith did not die on All in the Family.

Jean Stapleton agreed to appear on 6 episodes of the first season of Archie Bunker's Place, and was willing to make a similar deal for season 2.

But, it was decided that it was too awkward to explain Edith's absence for 16 out of 22 episodes. And, Lear and O'Connor thought that Archie being able to date might make for some interest story possibilities. So Norman Lear called Jean Stapleton, and told her that Edith was to be killed off. Edith dies off-camera, and season 2 begins in the aftermath of her funeral.

I know Sally Struthers talked about having Stapleton come do a guest shot on Gloria, as a woman who reminds Gloria of Edith, but it never happened. And, Carroll O'Connor once stated that Norman Lear wanted to bring Edith back as a ghost.

The show wasn’t the same without Edith.

She should have done a sitcom with Rita Moreno.

Sally Struthers was SOOOO annoying to listen to and didn't possess the looks to headline ANY show. PERIOD. BYE. NEXT.

Really?

Let's unpack that.

Why was Sally annoying to you?

[quote]She should have done a sitcom with Rita Moreno.

Oh no, Rita Moreno's TV shows was awful!

Did you ever see that terrible back-door pilot she did on The Golden Girls - just awful!

R62 The sound of that voice...just NO!

Sally is a decent actress but the moment she started whining and crying, she was obnoxious.

OP, the show was a spin-off of Archie Bunker's Place, not All In the Family.

[quote]Anyone remember Goodnight, Beantown with Bill Bixby and Mariette Hartley? That was a pretty good show, but couldn't hold ABP's audience.

I loved Goodnight, Beantown! I'd gotten tired of ABP when Martin Balsam left, so I was glad to see a replacement show, and I loved it, but it was cancelled very quickly.

I thought Sally hated Rita, but apparently, they were able to put their differences aside long enough to record this charity ad.

One of the best episodes of Archie Bunker’s Place is when Archie and friends end up in a GAY bar and some FAGS try to pick them up.

^ I wish Matt Damon would stop posting on DL.

R2 what about my song?

The never should’ve killed off Edith. She was the heart of the show. ABP wasn’t that bad, it was better in the first couple of years with Murray though. As for Gloria, why didn’t they just bring her onto ABP, that seems more logical as it sounds like ABP could’ve used a boost.

To the poster who said Mike would’ve turned conservative, not sure about that. When they guest starred on a Thanksgiving ep, Mike was fired from his job for protesting in the nude (never saw the ep until recently). People do leave their families, so not totally unbelievable. I think he asked Gloria to go with and she declined, so he took someone else. I always thought Gloria just adopted Mike’s beliefs on AITF anyway. I could see Mike becoming a loser, on that ep they sort of hinted at it. He always thought he was superior, but he ended up not being as successful as he thought he was.

R57 I saw an interview with Jean Stapleton and she said she left, they asked her to come back, but she had enough. Then they killed Edith.

Why would they kill her off because of a shortened number of appearances? She had all kinds of wacky family members who Archie hated that she could've been visiting.

R72- Like Maude

Rob Reiner was cute as Mike. Not a hunk but thicc and had a nice face.

The show was very low-energy and didn't have much to say.

Theme song SLAPS tho.

They should've brought back Liz Torres to ABP as Teresa to be a foil for Archie. She was still working in the Lear universe at the time, most recently on Checking In, the failed Jeffersons spin-off with Florence as head housekeeper of a hotel. Speaking of awful spinoffs!

R67 Sally and Rita were starting in the all-female revival of the odd couple in 1985. They didn’t know each other beforehand, Moreno eventually left the production and sally later said she was a mean, difficult person.

Sally objected to Rita's idea to give the Palestinians Greenland.

It's hard to believe that Archie's LITTLE GIRL is now 74 years old!

[quote]Supposedly drama with Sally Struthers as well as drama with Carroll O’Connor also, which led him to refuse to appear on the show.

OP, he was in the first episode, FFS!

[quote]So Norman Lear called Jean Stapleton, and told her that Edith was to be killed off.

You couldn’t be more wrong, per both Jean and Norman.

Jean told Norman to kill off the character and Norman told her there was no way he could do that as he loved her too much. Jean told Norman, “she’s just a character,” to which Norman replied, “Not to me, she isn’t.”

Peacock should do a limited series with modern non-binary characters. It would be charming.

R65 incorrect. The storyline for this show was born out of two AITF episodes. It’s always been classified as a spin-off of AITF.

Gloria wasn’t in ABP. she guest starred a couple of times. That’s it.

Jean Stapleton was the Kim Cattrall of her time. She was also fine with Edith being re-cast with an African-American actress.

Archie Bunker would lose his mind if he were around in 2022

R71 I never believed that she adopted his beliefs. She was a young woman in college and a lot of them were like that, very progressive minded when it came to race etc.

Archie is from a different time. Edith never shared his views.

[quote] A big problem with the show was the conception.

Oh my god there was SEX on the show?

R86- He would have LOVED Donald Trump- another white protestant male from Queens.

r81, technically O'Connor wasn't in the first episode, though he was in the original version.

The original Gloria pilot was written by some of O'Connors regular ABP writers, Joe Gannon, Patt Shea, Harriett Weiss. O'Connor appeared in a brief cameo dropping off Gloria and Joey at the beginning.

The network and studio replaced O'Connors writers and gave the show to Steve Marshall and Dan Guntzelman, of WKRP (and later of Just the Ten of Us), who rewrote it. O'Connor was mad about his writers being replaced, so he refused to appear on the new show.

The original Gloria pilot was aired at the end of the previous season of Archie Bunker's Place, which is why you might have seen that version. But when Gloria started, it was with a new version of the pilot (also titled "The First Day") that had her arriving again, this time without Archie, and meeting most (but not all) of the same people. (In the original pilot, there's a half-naked man asleep in the apartment when Burgess Meredith shows it to her. In the show version, he's been written out, so the apartment is empty.)

Original Gloria pilot on Archie Bunker's Place

[quote]She was a young woman in college and a lot of them were like that,

Have you ever seen an episode of AITF? Gloria never went to college. Several episodes revolved around her feelings of insecurity at that.

They should create a new "Archie's Place" starring the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

Why did they name Danielle Brisebois’ character Stephanie Mills on ABP? Was somebody pissed at Stephanie Mills the singer?

I posted the original pilot at r91 and was in the middle of posting the official first episode when the site said I couldn't post. So here it is now. She arrives again, this time without Archie. You can tell the writers were given a mandate to make things lighter (more in the direction early 80s sitcoms were heading, less in the vein of 70s sitcoms like AITF). Plus compared to the original pilot, it's nowhere near as dim and gloomy (so, less like ABP).

Would you like to know the reason Gloria only lasted one season? Sure, we all would!

R96- Do you want to know why Sally Struthers blew up like a balloon 🎈from the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade 🐖

Sure , we all do

Jean Staples was so wonderful as Edith. I know she was sick of playing her, but I would've ridden that gravy train till the very bitter end.

First, it bombed because of the address, The Bunkers lived in Astoria, Queens. All addresses in Queens have hyphenated house numbers, 111-05 Roosevelt Avenue, 82-10 Kew Gardens Road and 25-15 68th Street are just three examples. The only accurate Astoria reference was the Bunkers phone exchange - RAvenswood 8.

But what about the children?!?

😹 Because it sucked?

"Gloria" sucked, but Sally was amusing on the "King of Queens" knockoff "Still Standing" which was "King of Queens" with children.

Mary Richards and Edith Bunker join forces in a Sante Kimes TV bio.

Jean Stapleton discusses her exit from the show here.

It's kind of adorable how many people in the thread think sucking is enough of a reason for a show to fail. As though many terrible shows haven't succeeded and many wonderful shows haven't failed. Your faith in the taste of the viewing public is sweet.

Because it was dumb, OP.

It took place in an animal hospital and Sally kept eating all the pets.

I was never able to look Gloria in the eye after her attempted sexual assault in season three of All In The Family. Poor thing ate her feelings after that…

Critics regarded All in the Family pretty much like this:

Classic - the 4 main characters living under one roof Good - Mike and Gloria living next door Fair - Archie and Edith without Mike and Gloria Poor - Archie on his own Utter Shit - Gloria on her own

So much for trying to format that.

r57 I fucking CRIED when Edith died. I was maybe 11 or 12 and the scene where Archie goes to wake her up in the bedroom...Brutal. They need to kill more characters on sitcoms.

There was no such scene. Edith was already dead when they began season 2 of ABP. She died off-camera. The season began a couple months after her death.

As I recall, Jean Stapleton refused to do a death scene

r113 Calm down Loretta. Of course there was no body/death scene. I recall the assumption was she just went to bed the night before and did not wake up. I thought he went up and into the bedroom and called her name...but I also have not seen the episode in 40 years.

Her last appearance on the show was in December 1979

Sally Struthers was absolutely fucking hysterical as Bills mother on Still Standing.

Original Gloria pilot. Didn’t test well.

Wasn’t Laura Branigan's “Gloria” already out when the show was made? They should have made it the theme song lol

R39 - Oh no, Gloria had that covered!

[quote] It took place in an animal hospital and Sally kept eating all the pets.

Poor thing. She thought Gloria was working at a Golden Corral.

They should have had Gloria go work with Florence in that hotel spinoff, "Checking In". Toss in Vivian and they could have had an early version of Golden Palace.

R99 Jean Staples? Is she the heiress to the office supply chain?

R72 She didn't want to come back full time. But, she was willing to appear in a (very) limited number of episodes. If you watch season 1, she appears in the first six episodes, and every episode after that they had to explain where she was. It makes total sense that the producers/writers felt they would be unable to sustain that formula indefinitely.

It's next to impossible to have an off-camera wife perpetually excused away.

^ Oh I agree!

^ Truer words never spoken

R90- That naked guy was good looking.

R114- Maybe Maureen Stapleton could have stood in for her.

R13- I liked her in Sooner Or Later (1979)

Somehow I missed this one. Is it available on any streaming service?

R95- In the newer version of Gloria they made her hair look like SEAWEED. Her straighter hair in the original pilot looked better.

r131, yes. It's posted on r95.

All I remember from watching as a little kid is Gloria trapped in an overturn phone booth.

Am I remembering this correctly?

I remember her screaming and Archie trying to calm her down.

Thinking about it, the "the show wasn't funny/wasn't good" argument is pretty amusing, since "Alice" and "One Day at a Time" both ran on CBS Sunday nights for years and they were both complete shit. Quality certainly wasn't a requirement for a long run on CBS.

“ODAAT” was NOT complete shit! Just Bonnie!

“Alice” had Flo, but was otherwise complete shit.

Check it. Only Gloria I care about. Super bad bitch right here, baby! Haha yeah...

R132 you mean curls? You can’t be that stupid that you don’t know what curls are.

Networks don’t keep shows on based on quality. Never have. How dense are you people? It’s about ratings. More ratings = they can charge more for advertisements during that time slot

R134, you’re not completely misremembering, but that was on AITF when she gave birth to Joey.

[quote]Plus compared to the original pilot, it's nowhere near as dim and gloomy (so, less like ABP).

Who the hell was the lighting guy on these shows?! I suppose they wanted dim lighting to emulate a bar with Archie Bunker’s Place but it always just looked like a cheap set. I suppose they just redressed the same stage for the Gloria pilot which explains the bad lighting but it certainly didn’t create an atmosphere you wanted to spend time in.

All those Lear shows had cheap awful looking sets.

ODAAT's apartment was atrocious and hardly better than the one the Evans family lived in...and they were supposed to be in Cabrini-Green!

One thing that always struck me as odd was how Alice slept in the living room on the pull out while Tommy got the bedroom then I realized he was just at that age where he was jerking off constantly so she must have wanted him to have his privacy.

Speaking of jerking off constantly, my 14-year-old self resents r136’s casual dismissal by omission of the gruff, hirsute Syrian daddy Mel Sharples.

Great movie if you've never seen it. Casavetes/Roland - Gloria, 1980

[quote] All I remember from watching as a little kid is Gloria trapped in an overturn phone booth.

Damn, she shouldn’t have leaned against the glass.

R95 - But I want to see the episode with the half-naked hunk. Not shriveled up Burgess Meredith.

[quote]Networks don’t keep shows on based on quality. Never have. How dense are you people? It’s about ratings. More ratings = they can charge more for advertisements during that time slot

R139, while I agree with you, I can think of one particular case in which the opposite was true: "Gilligan's Island," despite solid ratings, was canceled by the president of CBS because he needed to open up an extra half-hour in the schedule and he absolutely HATED "Gilligan," so he yanked it to make room (much to the surprise of cast and crew).

[quote] All I remember from watching as a little kid is Gloria trapped in an overturn phone booth.

How did Gloria even manage to fit in a phone booth in the first place? Did she stand outside with cord stretched?

[quote] It’s about ratings. More ratings = they can charge more for advertisements during that time slot

Not only ratings, but the right demographics.

Little Gloria, happy at last?

R149- That episode featured a nurse at the front desk at the hospital who was meaner than Archie.

She's like a female version of Archie Bunker. The FUNNIEST part is when the nurse says THIS IS PRESBYTERIAN hospital

I in a MENTSTRAL show- the scene with Archie interacting with the nurse is so funny.

R112 From what I remember, there was a scene after Edith’s death with Archie in the Bunker’s bedroom and he breaks down holding one of her shoes. Or maybe it was a slipper…

Yup.

Wow that was moving

Carroll O’Connor played the fuck out of that scene. He should have won an Emmy just for that.

Thanks R154 glad I remembered correctly….then again I remember a lot about 70s and 80s TV shows but now often forget where I parked my car at the grocery store.

Sally doing Ernie Flatt...

R125 Are you seriously comparing a running gag with Edith Bunker suddenly not being there for three years, week after week with different excuses? Okaaaaaaaaay.

R134 That was on All in the Family. She was about to give birth to Joey.

This was the final scene from All In the Family and it foretold Edith's death from phlebitis. You can also see how it was essential Part 1 of the breakdown scene where Archie mourned Edith's death. Both beautiful performances and totally within character.

R161 I remember when series finales were a big deal like that. They were sad and felt like you were saying goodbye to people you knew.

Most shows aren’t like that now and it’s whatever.

The only series finale in recent years I can think of as being treated as a big deal and having an impact on its fanbase is This Is Us.

I’m watching AITF season 1 and Archie asks the nurse if she’s one of THOSE senoritas from Italy.

“I never said a guy who wears glasses is queer, a guy who wears glasses is a four eyes! A guy who’s a fag is a queer”- Archie Bunker

I sometimes forget that they could use slurs on national television until the mid 90s. Imagine if this was aired now. Lmao

Who in their right mind would reject David Dukes' advances when he was in his prime? Just sayin.

[quote] I in a MENTSTRAL show

A menstrual show.

When I think comedy.........I think Burgess Meridith..........

R162, the guy in question is real life queer Anthony Geary. It was an interesting story because Big Bo Buchanan was gay but so was Anthony and Archie and Mike both thought their respective friends were straight.

R168, as I remember the episode, Mike never explicitly said his friend Roger was straight. In fact, he deftly avoids saying it. He was just upset because Archie immediately assumed Roger was gay.

R169 he never uses the word straight but he repeatedly says he isn’t gay

Also, the bartender asks Mike if his friend is straight and Mike says yes. So Mike didn’t know he was gay either

[quote] the guy in question is real life queer Anthony Geary. It was an interesting story because Big Bo Buchanan was gay

Phil Carey (Asa, not Bo) - are you saying he was a closeted gay in real life or are you just referring to the character?

The Mike/Roger exchange was on the AITF record, which I admit I bought.

Mike: " We all know Roger and we all know he's straight."

It’s on Crackle, by the way.

R164, I think about that whenever I catch old reruns of "Sanford & Son" and Fred would let the N word fly. Could not happen today.

R175, there weren't a lot of times it happened. The most famous was Aunt Esther's famous outbreak. It was one of the biggest laughs I've ever seen on TV.

The aforementioned hot naked guy from the original pilot is at 6:27 at the link. It's the entire original pilot, dark lighting and all.

The second I saw this thread title I knew there’s be close to 200 responses.

R178 ummm ok

Mea culpa, guys.

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it.