What are the true "tells" of class, prestige, and sophistication?

Not asking people what they are.

doilies on the davenport, dear

Being able to casually speak without unnecessary profanities and expletives every other sentence.

Forgetting to pay the help.

Grey Poupon

A gallows or a block on Hanging Hill.

Oh, and prisons. Lots of big, heavily populated prisons.

Hospitality.

Manners

Depends on which class you're talking about.

Good teeth, for one. Also proper grammar.

Not flaunting money or possessions. (In general, not discussing finances at all, as it’s a private matter and has no reflection on an individual’s worth.)

Quiet generosity, including anonymous donations.

Large, pointy noses with no slope.

Thinking ritual sexual abuse is no big deal.

OP, never using the word "tell" in the manner you have perpetrated here.

Acting in a way as if the people around one are not strangers and potential serial killers.

Graciousness even under stress.

I think it's graciousness and making people comfortable, even if you think they are beneath you, and making sure they are included in conversation and not left being a wallflower everyone ignores.

Unassuming confidence and good manners.

No mugshot(s).

No public fighting.

Self-control (in public).

Being in the absolute semi finals of the ping pong tournament at the country club.

R19, that’s ghastly, just ghastly.

[quote]Being in the absolute semi finals of the ping pong tournament at the country club.

You could practically write a book about what happened to you!

Why no consult one of the zillion or so threads on this topic that already exist, OP?

Joking that when the help skimps on cleaning the bathroom because you refused giving them a raise it’s an act of “domestic terrorism”.

Making sure all your employees own their own homes even if you buy them for them.

People always attribute all these great qualities (kindness, generosity, blah blah blah) to rich people. I know that middle-class and lower-income people can have good manners. But let's face it, we're talking about rich people, mostly. They can be just as or more rude, boring, uncultured, etc., as anyone else.

Beating the servants.

Social comfort in all settings, appropriate engagement and actual, informed, balanced-but-impassioned taste.

R25, it's true money doesn't buy class. Look at social media and reality TV for proof.

Flushing down if it's brown!

Look at the fucking cunt at r3! Fuck you, asshole!

[quote]People always attribute all these great qualities (kindness, generosity, blah blah blah) to rich people.

Nowhere in his post did the OP say anything about money. I think you brought money into it.

R26 = Ellen

The true "tell" of class is how you treat people, especially those who are perceived as "lowly" and who are serving you in some way, as well as people you have nothing to gain from. If you treat these people with the same politeness, respect and kindness as you treat people who are "above you" or who you have something to gain from, then you have class.

Ironically, the true tell of if someone has money is that they don't spend it unnecessarily. These are not the people who you will find buying a new car every year. If you drive past a house with all the bells and whistles and new cars in the driveway, they are trying way too hard to show you how rich they are. The house down the street that is a little ramshackle (not too much) with a couple of two year old cars in the driveway is where the money is. There are very rich people with estates, but most people who have money regard showing off as classless.

Any little subtle things?

Little nuanced touches?

Teeth and shoes. Nice things that aren't flashy brands.

With money, class manifests as a quiet noblesse oblige. There's never a reason to be upset or to hurry because you have the abundance to handle it. And you can afford to walk away from anything. Money can often buy time, power, choices and make things better. People who have money and class understand how to use that money to make their lives better and the lives of those around them, without being ostentatious or getting taken advantage of financially. So there's a graciousness and ease there.

Sophistication: relaxed, kind, not attempting to outshine others. Having genuine interest in others and being modest.

Milk in after.

A fridge full of condiments like cornichons, marmalade, olive, tapenade.

Pronouncing the L in salmon. Not pronouncing the F on often.

Dog hair and old furniture at home.

Not caring about class markers like this thread.

Also, respecting others’ opinions and experiences, especially when differing. Not taking things personally, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Life experience and wisdom of how the world and people work. Sophistication is not common in the young, takes time to develop.

Nonsense R40. Doormats have no class.

Listening to others is classy and sophisticated. Accepting their views is trashy, especially when you have superior e xpertise in the subject matter.

I hear you r42, accepting their right to have an individual point of view, not necessarily agreeing with it...big distinction.

[Quote] Not pronouncing the F on often.

What?!

The true sign of class is the subtext of most of these posts--actual belief that some people are below you and some above.

And treating people "beneath you" kindly like it's no skin off your nose is super patronizing, because you already own everything this person lacks and it truly is nothing to you, but you look upon it as some supreme kindness to behave like a human being.

Noblesse oblige is an evil and delusional concept, extremely morally dubious bordering hypocrisy.

"Class" = heirarchy and the attempt to maintain it.

Generosity, kindness, vast knowledge, and humor. They treat everyone with respect, from the hired help to those in even better positions. No bragging, no name-dropping, no one-upmanship. Compassionate and considerate with the ability to make others feel comfortable and valued. The giving of thoughtful gifts and the joy they get when sharing special things.

These words describe several people I know who have class, prestige, and sophistication, along with great wealth and success. Some are family, others old friends. There are times when I'm with them I think how lucky I am to know such people. Of course not everyone I know who might be intimidating with their wealth and prestige are nice people.

One couple I know owns business properties with tenants (among other businesses they own). Some are young startups and my friends treat them like family. They even fitted out a special break room for employees to gather and chatter about the tenants like they are their kids. They take great care of the tenants and the buildings.

R45, that sounds more like an East Indian caste system than a person with class in America. Thinking of others as beneath you and others as above you is to negate equality. Some beneath you might be above you some day. Treating others politely and respect will give you nothing to regret, unless that person is a hitler or trump.

Joan Crawford's 'Come Fuck Me Pumps'

Nothing in 2022. Physical appearance and worth trumps "upbringing" etc. now.

No one gives a shit about class or prestige unless you're part of some primitive caste system.

After many years, I've decided it's the ability to talk to anyone about... something.

People do not have a "right" to views based on ignorance and lies, such as that their "religion" says homosexuality is a "sin." It's a lie. Nobody who has read the bible all the way through could possibly come to that conclusion honestly. To "agree to disagree" when one point of view is fraudulent and bigoted is not classy or sophisticated: it is patronizing and a denial of citizenship responsibility.

A house with more bathrooms than bedrooms.

R47 read the thread again and note how many times the theme "treating one's lessers the same as anyone else" and get back to me.

The idea that you, or anyone has lessers but still need to treat as human beings (always noted as "naturally" or "gracefully" like it takes special effort of appearing effortless, the thing upper classes are always so enamored of) like it's some special signal of supreme elevation is its own negation.

No erections in public.

No wire hangers EVER.

When you fuck the maid and impregnate her you quietly pay her off versus having her murdered to ensure her silence!

You eat the oreo in your left hand. Or something like that. I always forget.

Living off the interest, never touching the principal. Marrying your second cousin to keep the money in the family.

Clean-shaven and a nice, subtle cologne.

You think that is common? No.

[quote] People always attribute all these great qualities (kindness, generosity, blah blah blah) to rich people. I know that middle-class and lower-income people can have good manners. But let's face it, we're talking about rich people, mostly. They can be just as or more rude, boring, uncultured, etc., as anyone else.

Oh, come on. You stick a silver spoon up any monkey's butt, it's bound to go 'please' and 'thank you

Excellent table manners

Not asking strangers what they do for a living

Not having conversations about how much one paid for something

Knowing how to be a gracious guest

Having neither need nor desire to call attention to one's self

Isn't it human nature, though, to see people above and below you...everyone does it, at least subconsciously.

It's like saying everyone is beautiful. It's a platitude that you would have to be a saint to ascribe to.

The point is you treat everyone well and keep your opinion of them to yourself.

Unclassy is to treat people snobbish or have an inferiority complex.

A classic hairstyle that is neither trendy or outdated. Also, a skeletal frame from which to show it off.

Praise Jesus!!!!

Killing your sleazy Argentine polo player husband yourself instead of insisting the maid do it.

Expressing genuine interest in other people, curiosity about their lives, sympathy about their travails, and being non-judgmental. Making everyone, stranger, friend, or family member feel perfectly comfortable in your presence. Having a lively interest in the events of the day and enough knowledge to converse easily about most topics. Always making sure that visitors to your home have been offered food and drink. Being focused on the needs of others rather than obsessed with yourself. Understanding that the essence of good manners is consideration of the feelings of others. Expressing gratitude for every thing that another person has done for you. That about covers "class"

Prestige? Well, I'm not sure in what sense OP is using that word. It's a word of judgment. It refers to respect or admiration for someone based upon his qualities or achievements. I don't think it belongs with the other 2 words. It's a sort of "in-the-eye-of-the-beholder" word.

Sophistication? To me, this condition connotes someone who is knowledgeable about the arts or "big-city" matters. Someone who has studied art history and knows the hallmarks of the different eras and some important artists from every era . Someone who has tried to achieve the same education in music, theater, dance, interior design, film, fashion, literature, and architecture, and who has seen enough live performances, read enough books, and visited enough museums to make informed judgements about quality. Someone who has done some of this sort of education in one or two fields above can still be sophisticated. Obviously, the more time someone has spent acquiring this sort of education, the more sophisticated he will be. I think the assumption of some posters on DL that someone who can describe I every nuance of the Royal Family of England, or can list all the husbands of his favorite movie stars or pop singers has achieved a high level of sophistication is wrong, or perhaps too narrow. I would describe the character Sutherland in Dancer from the Dance as sophisticated in some ways, although mostly in superficial gay aspects . Sophistication is rarely a sign of moral depth or wisdom, although some sophisticated people have those qualities too. . It's sometimes an attempt by someone to disassociate himself from rural roots and values.

The late philosopher /art critic, Professor Arthur Danto, was the most sophisticated person I’d known personally.

Sophisticated as in knowledgeable, erudite *and* witty

I was just wondering: in the current atmosphere of febrile Wokeism and impassioned political ideology in academic humanities, would one still be able to find someone like that?

Let me start by saying that class, prestige and sophistication are not necessarily linked to socioeconomic level but rather, to sociocultural level. People like the obnoxiously mean-spirited princess Margaret, the boorish, aggressive and rude Ernest of Hannover or the repulsive pig known as prince Andrew may technically be upper class by tradition, but they don't/didn't have any class, prestige nor sophistication of any sort.

As far as I have been able to observe, there are the true characteristics of class:

Adaptability without loss of breeding: truly classy and sophisticated people gracefully adapt to their surroundings without compromising their status or debasing themselves. They are friendly, polite and engaging with everyone and know how to make those around them feel at ease, because it's something they have learned since childhood.

Cordial self-assurance: they know how to face situations of conflict without losing control, and they put people in their place without making embarrassing scenes. Politeness is indispensable, because it reflects power: those who truly are on top are magnanimous, because the people below them are not a threat of any sort - they can afford to treat others with gentle condescension because, in reality, they are very much aware of each person's true position and they know tha this won't change.

Erudition and taste: they show their high level of knowledge and discuss many subjects with naturality and ease. They don't try to intimidate others by trying to embarrass them because they don't know something, nor do they use their knowledge as a way to separate themselves from the rest, as only the vulgar and ignorant would do. For them, erudition, refinement and academic curiosity are natural things.

Simplicity and approppriate grandeur: They lead relatively frugal lives and buy things that are both tastefully conventional and highly durable. Moreover, they know when to dress up and to which degree they should do so - you will never see them wearing a full parure or a tiara for a birthday party, nor broadcast to the world that they are wearing a Christian Dior gown to do their shopping, à la Sarah Jessica Parker. Also, they do not follow fashion trends and you'll never see them stumbling over their own feet to buy the latest thing that everyone wants.

There are also other subtler signs of breeding: how you walk, how you sit (back straight and without letting yourself fall on a chair or sofa as if someone had dropped a sack of potatoes), how you eat and drink (especially how you use your knife and fork), the way in which you speak, etc...

Social events that not include the likes of the Kardashians or Rappers.

Oh and before you say that's racist, let me remind you I did not mention one. Many cultures have Rap music these days. There are just certain styles of music that are classless mainly because they include vulgar language, behavior and false pretense that ostentatious display of expensively branded products elevates one to a higher class.

Lifelong obsession with mommy's art and sex life, and posting sad selfies on Instagram

Has a butler.

Lack of overweight

[quote] Social events that not include the likes of the Kardashians or Rappers. Oh and before you say that's racist, let me remind you I did not mention one. Many cultures have Rap music these days. There are just certain styles of music that are classless mainly because they include vulgar language, behavior and false pretense that ostentatious display of expensively branded products elevates one to a higher class.

You’re seriously arguing that musical artists are defined by whether or not they perform a genre of music that includes what may be perceived as vulgar or profane content. Rather than being defined by their own behavior. That’s a ridiculous argument.

The people who get hung up on money, Kardashians and rappers reveal themselves to be clueless about what class, prestige, and sophistication really are.

They're caught up in some fantasy idea of what those things are, usually based on old movies with large busted white ladies clutching their pearls and saying, "well, I never."

Class is being welcoming to everyone and not looking down on anyone. Sophistication is appreciating everyone's contributions to the world, even when you don't understand them, or better yet, when it's not even your thing. Prestige is using your abilities, whatever they may be, to do good work for the common good.

This is why true class, prestige, and sophistication are not tied to someone's bank account. Every year we have the same thread about the Met Gala or the Oscars no longer being "classy". Those events were never classy. The Met Gala was a fundraising event so that rich New Yorkers could have tax write-offs under the guise of helping the museum. The Oscars was nothing more than an industry trade show to get people to watch more movies. What the people who complain really aren't saying is that they preferred those two events when certain people weren't invited or were deemed unworthy.

Erm, I am pretty sure Kardashians and rappers don't really care what the Rockefellers and Rothschilds consider classy. They're just eager consumers who understand how capitalist systems work, through manipulating public relations and using money to make more money by selling shit people don't need to needy people.

The Trump family wants to be considered high class, or at least most of them. I feel like Don Jr. may not have any illusions. Donald Senior, Melania, Ivanka and Jared all are desperate to be old-money rich and "classy."

Oprah, too.

But I think a lot of rappers and certainly the Karsashian family really don't care at all about that. Or they don't act as if they do. They really seem to work just to sell, sell, sell and pretty much march to their own hired drummers.

This particular group of people is dwindling in numbers now.

R73 What? Isn't Chanel the epitome of class? I don't think the ghost of Karl Lagerfeld agrees with you....

Savoir faire.

An ingenuous refusal to accept that "class, prestige and sophistication" are products of anything but luck and personal practice.

"Class" in the sense the OP means is different from "social class," as it is the best of whatever class one is born into, wanders into through friendships, marries into or works into.

All the social graces are intended to make others and oneself comfortable by applying standards of behavior based on appropriateness. Stepping outside the conventions for purposes of wit, amusement or the making of a point are part of navigating.

The last person I knew who maintained the knowledge, capacity and will to carry out older customs (processing to the dining room, turning the table conversation, seating by precedence, never seating spouses together at a table, being inclusive, knowing and having staff to accomplish both service à la française and service à la russe, while occasionally on holidays loosening up for a rare dinner's service à la anglaise, etc.) died two months ago.

People who use words like "classy" generally have no class.

I love this type of thread, it brings out the high-riding bitch in me & other Dataloungers.

Making anyone, regardless of their station in life, feel comfortable in your presence. You don’t need to be wealthy to do this, but the wealthy often lack this attribute. I think that’s why people look up to institutions like the British Royal Family. The Queen could converse with just about anyone and not belittle or make them feel inferior or judged.

[quote] Making anyone, regardless of their station in life, feel comfortable in your presence. You don’t need to be wealthy to do this, but the wealthy often lack this attribute. I think that’s why people look up to institutions like the British Royal Family. The Queen could converse with just about anyone and not belittle or make them feel inferior or judged.

Her subjects look up to her because they are foolish people who cannot let go of silly antiquated nonsensical traditions. Not because they enjoy chatting with her.

As if the bowing in her presence along with all of the other antiquated rules aren’t designed to make her subjects feel inferior.

R80 What? The queen showed the world her best BITCHFACE at the 2012 Olympics opening ceremony after the James Bond sketch. She wanted to make everybody feel miserable because she had to take part in this silly stunt to please the crowds……

R45 makes an excellent point. If you treat those beneath you well, but are still by definition the kind of person who believes others to be 'beneath' you, then you don't have class. But you will appear to, to many.

I have an uncle like this, who treats everyone kindly and will go quite far out of his way to make everyone feel at ease. He volunteers at a prison teaching inmates how to read and is generous with his wealth. I can't even say it's an act, unless a whole life can be an act. But if one of those inmates got out of prison and made something of himself - if indeed he made more of himself than my uncle has (and in a way that my uncle is personally insecure about) - my uncle would not like that. He maintains his kindness and generosity only when he feels that he is the most important and high status person in an interaction. He does not like to be questioned seriously. You can be an illiterate prisoner and be shouty and rude and that would be fine and there would be a show of tolerance and graciousness in response. But if the prisoner was more intelligent and asked a question my uncle didn't want to answer, or one that threatened his worldview or his idea of himself, he would instantly transform into someone very condescending and even cruel. He would do it passively and there would be no confrontation, but he would do it.

Everyone thinks my uncle is gracious and kind. I used to. I still do - it's not like discovering who he is erases the good things he's done. But he is one of those people who needs to feel 'above' in order to bestow his goodness upon others, and once you see that about a person you cannot unsee it.

Class/manners is the art of making other people feel welcome and at ease, no matter who they are or where you are. It’s a surprisingly rare quality nowadays .

Oh, r78 I wish you would explain more. These are the type of answers that would fill an ENTIRE thread in the heyday of DL. True knowledge of old guard manners and sophistication.

I love you!

You've come to the right place to ask your question, OP.

The eldergays of DL are all high-born members of the nobility.

not mentioning The Clinton Foundation

I’ve noticed the very upper echelon , is always extremely impatient . Like waiting for valet, etc. would never wait in any line. They are also impressed my worldly people, and ones that know intelligent subjects well. The rest they see as plebes. They do have good manners and teach their children manners, as well as always being well dressed (their children are picture perfect) but they always have the same type of impatience. Hard to explain

Underwear so old it's grey, and falling to pieces, is usually a dependable hallmark.

ALWAYS letting the dog ride in the front seat, human passengers go in the back. The car, preferably, is an ancient "woody" station wagon.

For men, using a brown paper grocery bag, instead of a real suitcase, to carry one's clothes on trips. [It feels mildly traitorous to be revealing this precious arcana, frankly.]

They drive red automobiles only in the country, never in the city.

Not voting for Biden.

[quote] Not voting for Biden.

Wishing there was a magic set of rules you could follow to make people forget you are a hairdresser born into a working class family.

Oh wait...

R94 dear anyone can graduate college now. It Is all about which prestigious one you come from. There are very few. You aren’t even skull and bones dear.

r91 What purpose does that serve? Enlighten us peasants.

[quote] [R94] dear anyone can graduate college now. It Is all about which prestigious one you come from. There are very few. You aren’t even skull and bones dear.

“Dear” although it’s true that we now have a public school system that educates even our women and our coloreds. However, only 30 percent of Americans have at least a BA degree. “Class, prestige and sophistication” include a post secondary education. Most college educated voters voted for Biden.

R96 No, it's not even about what prestigious college you graduated from anymore. Not since the influx of the greedy, deceitful anything-but-classy Chinese.

How one treats the hoi polloi.

R98 GASP! Does this mean the help can read?

Shaves his ass-hawk

Never explain. See R91, *supra*.

Not talking about class, prestige, and sophistication.

Never complain, never explain.

Shoes that are well made, well worn and well polished.

Using your pinky whilst picking your nose.

Not having a sex tape leaked

Not shitting the bed

[quote]You’re seriously arguing that musical artists are defined by whether or not they perform a genre of music that includes what may be perceived as vulgar or profane content. Rather than being defined by their own behavior. That’s a ridiculous argument.

I don't make the rules. Hard core Rap is not being played in the halls of Buckingham Palace. Rap is considered vulgar because of it's language. Sure there are exceptions, but the vast body of work is not like that. Sure, being vulgar in a creative scene is fine if you want to make a statement, but it's not considered a tell of class. The whole point of class is not to offend people, such as not referring to woman as bitches N hoes, calling gay men fag-gots and using the F world in every other sentence or starting a song verse with "Booty so stupid it's a motherfucking retard"

R107 which make? I’m on the hunt for a womens’ shoe to wear to a function with old money.

Kind, respectful, loyal, and generous to the help.

The filthy rich “playing poor” is just as annoying as the McMansioners playing filthy rich.

You freed the slaves to celebrate BLM, bitches.

[quote]I don't make the rules. Hard core Rap is not being played in the halls of Buckingham Palace.

The fact that you think that Buckingham Palace is some kind of bastion of good taste says more about you than it does about hip hop music.

Real, imperfect teeth that are not marshmallow white.

They don't buy teeth at the same Chicklets store the Trump clan does, that's for sure.

Treating one and all with respect and dignity...

As my Dad would say, "None too lofty, none too low."

The opposite of anything Madonna does.

impeccable education, taken seriously, knowing things deeply, using the mind reasonably and also frivolously but learnedly. Examples, learning to speak foreign languages to perfection, not proficiency. Have a deep knowledge and passion for some particular literary or artistic tradition. The engineer who plays music beautifully. Creator of brilliant gardens. Also the dignified, classy person of humble means, who works a dull job for a lifetime and writes very good poetry or is a highly skilled master furniture maker as a hobby. The person of humble means who does charitable good works in his or her community and is fair and kind to everyone, for decades, through rain and shine.

Gayest thread i've ever read on DL

Makes me want to fart loud and say FUCK

Not even women type these things, faggots

R119 also the opposite of anything a footballer does.

If you have to ask, you don’t have it.

OP - You do realize that class, prestige, and sophistication are three separate things. They are not synonyms.

Your dentures fit!

Something in the facial bone structure. Not doughy.

Yes, r124, but they go hand in hand, which is why I put them together.

Grey Poupon

Urban wit and style

Drollery

Never picking up the check.

Omg

I meant "urbane" at R129. I guess my autocorrecting phone isn't very sophisticated.

Class = Not mentioning it when someone else farts

Prestige = Being famous despite not having any discernible skills or talent

Sophistication = Knowing which one is the shrimp fork

Pinky out when drinking tea

Reticense, reserve. Not boastful.

Speaking four languages in addition to English and no one knows one knows any of them, except those people who only speak French, Italian, German or Spanish.

They are all charmed by your precision and charm.

Fucking the maid?

Class, prestige, and sophistication are three different things.

Class is hard to acquire if you don't have it naturally. It involves not being a snob, not thinking you're better than others, making other people feel comfortable, doing good deeds without bragging about it, and a lot of other things.

Eccentricity. A flair, odd flair.

Good American Born Colored Help !!!!!

Having not the faintest whiff of striving. For anything.

"What are the true "tells" of class, prestige, and sophistication?"

Committing amoral crimes with little to no fear of retribution.

That's it. Everything else is window dressing.

Monogrammed anal bleaching kits by Chanel.

^They tell their friends they use Chanel, but privately they use Dollar Tree oven cleaner.

Not being on a reality show.

Warning before cumming in mouth.

1987 Volvo Station Wagon parked in the Portico, minimally detailed clothes in bright timeless colors, food tastes that transcend into foods that are not easily understood, media tastes that span other cultures especially those not easily accessible to the masses, work is a part of life but not the main driver. Sensualness that’s nuanced and downplayed. Skin is ink free and minimally sunkissed… where is this guy?

This is of course why the SH dust-up is interesting.

But more for what it says in this regard about Fulani than SH.

It was SH who caused Fulani to say what she said about herself.

Losing most of your sizeable fortune gambling and deciding to kill your wife but mistaking the nanny for her, killing her faking your suicide and then going to live your life in some far Asian country. This also adds a sense of intriguing mystery.

[quote]Being able to casually speak without unnecessary profanities and expletives every other sentence.

R3 Well I'm fucked then

[quote]Lack of overweight

R71 or maybe I arent, maybe I'm real classy as shit cos I'm slim?

[quote]Skin is ink free and minimally sunkissed… where is this guy?

R148 well I got the last two, maybe some of the others. And camo is sorta timeless?