"Men Controlling Women's Bodies"?

I think the better description would be "fake Christians, fake patriots and other assorted miscreants and dirtball scumbags trying to establish a Chrisitan Taliban theocracy by imposing their religious beliefs on others.

No, it’s not factual. It would be factual to say they are controlling *people’s* bodies as this issue also affects trans men.

It's a religious issue. More women are religious than men. It's a moral issue. Some people legitimately think it is murder and don't see why the "baby" must suffer for the mother's "mistake." It's also a class issue. It disproportionately affects lower-income women. It's a racial issue. Some white supremacists are paranoid about the white race going extinct, these types wouldn't say anything if it's women of color getting abortions. On the flip-side, many women of color who are pro-choice compare abortion to genocide.

It's a complex issue and you're right OP that is not as simple as "men controlling women's bodies." There are more men in office but a lot of these issues are voted upon and many women are pro-life.

It’s sexist to believe it’s all men running the show when there’s anti-abortion female politicians. And if I’m not mistaken, it was a woman who wrote the first anti-abortion bill in Atlanta that jump started the train.

More than 1/3 of women believe “all or nearly all” abortions should be legal. Somewhat less than men (41%) but not so much as to make the “war against women” or “men controlling women’s bodies” rhetoric vey persuasive.

Correction: that should read illegal not legal.

It still doesn’t justify the hypocrisy of conservatives who oppose government regulation in businesses but embrace it to enforce their cultural war.

Not to mention the hysterics of “you’re murdering a baby!” Let’s take care of actual babies and the people they become, then we can get back to worrying about a glob cells that only has the potential to become baby.

The rhetoric that those who favor making abortion illegal are all men looking to control woman's bodies is really politically tone death. Not a smart idea trying to make it a men vs. women issue as there are many women who want abortion to be illegal just as there are men who want abortion to remain legal.

And if the line is meant to try to shame men into supporting legalized abortion or at least not advocate to make abortion illegal, it won't work as such men don't care if they are viewed as wanting to control woman's bodies and likely take pride in being perceived as attempting to do so.

Pro choice advocates would be smart to add to their arguments reasons why it's beneficial for men as men to keep abortion legal. Some of the reasons aren't very nice (to prevent entrapment into marriage and supporting a kid you don't want for 18 years), but it could work to get some apathetic men on the issue to factor pro choice when they vote.

The biggest pro-lifers are women.

But pro-abortion women still blame men anyway because they hate men. I saw a bunch of them screeching on TV last night and not a single one of those pro-abortion creatures would ever have to worry about getting one because nobody in their right mind would ever fuck them. Hideous beasts.

Men run every branch of everything. The Repug party would never be elected to anything ever again if men weren't allowed to vote. This is not all women's fault no matter how much the misogynistic incel MRAs try to pretend it is. And, surprisingly, there is even some male involvement in all these unwanted pregnancies...or so I hear.

R3, it is all about men trying to control women through their body. A women can never have full control of her life if she cannot control her reproductive system. Men have always weaponized women to hold other women down.

OP, why you don't understand and seem offended that MEN control women's bodies, that MEN control most everything, is very odd.

It's a deplorable situation.

Most GQP politicians are male. Only 20% of GQP members of congress are male, versus 40% of Dems

[quote] Men have always weaponized women to hold other women down.

When are women going to wise up to this?

How cute. “The mother’s mistake.”

Where’s good old dad?

You people really think men want to be fathers against their will? There's no benefit of banning abortion for men at all. Low-income men and teenage boys are certainly not benefiting of having to support another life for 18 years and plenty of rich, older men would not want their mistress to have a child.

And plenty of women don't care about other women. Women slut-shame, sabotage each other, spread rumors, abuse each other, sleep with taken men, etc. Men do not control women's actions as much people think. Women are intelligent and capable of their own decisions regardless of patriarchy. Posters here rightfully call out how ludicrous the claim that Black people and Native Americans have no free will and whites are to blame for everything. So how is claiming men are to blame for everything negative women not as ludicrous? Systems of oppression do not take away all of one's agency, if it does they are weak-willed. Women learn from their mothers, sisters, female peers, etc. Men are not teaching them how to behave as women.

[quote] Men run every branch of everything. The Repug party would never be elected to anything ever again if men weren't allowed to vote. This is not all women's fault no matter how much the misogynistic incel MRAs try to pretend it is. And, surprisingly, there is even some male involvement in all these unwanted pregnancies...or so I hear.

Most voters are older women. Most older white women supported Trump. Women are more religious on average than men. People regardless of sex become more conservative with age. Both men and women are responsible for the Republican Party, the support is evenly split about them

White Evangelicals are the biggest threat to abortion.

This conversation is being driven by a bunch of angry old white men - and whatever Amy Comey Barrett is. Of course, there are proponents and opponents on both sides, and both genders. But the fight is being driven by people who really don't have standing.

Anti-abortion sentiment is driven by white Christian nationalists, as R19 notes. The same people who are an existential threat to democracy. Of course the women are handmaiden zombies.

[quote]Most older white women supported Trump

So support equals LAW?

R18, more women are Democrats and more women vote. Men are the Repug party. Not sure why you're trying to rewrite reality. If men weren't allowed to vote, no Repug would ever be elected across the entire country. If women weren't allowed to vote, no Democrats would ever be elected. So, just stop with the both sides bullshit.

R17, there was a lot of support for Hillary among women when she initially ran for the Dem Presidential nom. Fast forward eight years later and many women who previously supported her turned against her. Why do you think this happened? Because for eight years men pounded anti-Hillary rhetoric in the ears of women and just enough listened to be detrimental. This is how it was with ERA and many other issues that would benefit and strengthen women.

Whatever happened to "don't count your chickens before they hatch"?

This is as stupid as saying, whites are to blame for black slavery in the US? I'm white and it's unfair to blame me.

I’m a female lifelong democrat prochoice. I never had kids - I spent so many years terrified I’d get pregnant - most likely I wouldn’t have been able to anyway. BUT I always knew that if I DID get pregnant at the wrong time , man, job etc that I could have an abortion. I worked for years with a super sexy wild Italian American - she looked like a cross between Lainie Kazan and Peg Bundy. She had sexual adventures over the years that would make a person blush. She had a few husbands and a few abortions, Frank like a fish etc. BUT - Abortion is a sin and should be outlawed. The wisemen in the church and government know better _ they have STUDIED these things - her pawpaw and the church and the Republican Men’s Rotary club know more than a simple little woman. - Homosexuality was a sin, suicide was a sin - BUT she could have sex in the park in the middle of the day with a stranger and that was ok. Our friendship word out when Obama won - I stopped finding her funny…. I think a lot of these dumb women have no idea what a nightmare lies ahead of all of this goes through.

Drank not Frank!!

Thank you, R28. I was about to go "Frank like a fish."

Well I think she “had” a few drinks in her way as well!

I liked "frank like a fish" too!

I think your point is good though. A lot of women who are anti-abortion have actually had abortions. I don't understand how their minds work. Also, as I've mentioned before, I knew a woman who was always trying to adopt, and she was very anti-abortion. I think there really are people who think that all these fertile chicks should have children for them. And maybe some men are jealous that women have this power. We have this one power, one thing that you can't have. Eventually you won't need us because you'll be able to grow a baby in some kind of water tube (like they put Luke Skywalker in to heal him), but for now, it's one thing we have. Plus I don't think it's really thought out what they're going to do with all the seriously handicapped kids. It will cost a total fortune to take care of them.

[quote]But the fight is being driven by people who really don't have standing.

Who doesn't have a standing in a basic moral issue that affects all of society? Just because you don't have kids doesn't mean you shouldn't care about the state of the schools, and just because you biologically can't have children doesn't mean you don't have the right to a voice in the abortion debate. If you think abortion is immoral you have a right - some would say a duty - to speak against it regardless of your age or sex.

[quote]A lot of women who are anti-abortion have actually had abortions. I don't understand how their minds work.

Actress Jennifer O'Neill is like that - abortion was okay for me, NOT for you.

This phrase also ignores the fact there is another body involved as well, that of the foetus.

Whether you are pro or anti abortion, if you saw an aborted foetus sitting in a kidney dish you would call it a body.

It is about control, but it's control over what causes pregnancy (sex) vs pregnancy itself. Birth control and abortion equates to more sexual freedoms for women. Though some pregnancies slip through, many women can sleep at night knowing they are unlikely to have a baby every time they have sex.

Christians, and especially their controlling men, are taught that pregnancy is a consequence of sex... for women. That it is even meant to be painful. They can't stand the fact that women were getting out of that part of the contract. They want them to be punished, especially the "immoral women". Even wives aren't exempt. Many hardcore Christians eschew birth control for that reason -- sex is supposed to be for making babies.

That's the reason they aren't as riled up over IVF or giving babies formula. IVF can kill many embryos if the means can justify the end (pregnancy). That's why they don't put more effort into babies already born. It's all about making sure pregnancy on is on the table every time a woman has sex. It keeps them in line and doing what they think they should do.

Debatable actually R34, but depends on how far long. A majority of abortions are done the first few months -- you wouldn't see anything very recognizable. My female relative had a miscarriage at 3 months and they wanted her to save it in a container, but she couldn't see anything except clot after clot. There was no "baby" floating in a toilet, or in her pad, but I digress.

That's why I don't bother debating over what it is. Doesn't matter if some see it as a baby right away or not. The debate over abortion should be about choosing medical care for one's own body. It really comes down to reproductive rights as a whole, to prevent others from making any decisions for pregnant women. To give a fetus individual status, is to take away rights from the woman carrying it. For ex; a woman might want to risk natural birth against medical advice that the baby would be at risk, needing a C-section. Well if it's granted more rights, we'd have to say too bad, women must do what doctors say. Or it could bleed over into telling pregnant women what to do the entire pregnancy -- what to ingest, what activities they can do, etc. I'm not comfortable with that, but that's what would need to be done if a fetus is equal to any other child.

While in a womb, not able to survive on it's own, women need to come first. We don't make parents donate organs for living children, or sacrifice their health, because they have individual rights to do what they want with their bodies. Pregnancy entails permanent changes to the body, sometimes to the mind, comes with a risk of death, and it's a long process. No woman should be told they have to do it to save a life that hasn't been born yet. Once it's living outside the body, then yes, save the babies.

It's the very reason most would argue to save a mother over an unborn baby -- the mother is an established human being, with family, contributing to society, maybe with other kids, etc. They are often told if they live, they can try again. Why? Because their life is more valuable to their loved ones. It's smart advice. Why now pretend that every unborn potential baby is more important than women? Could you imagine if doctors thought that way? It would be crazy.

R36, consistent with what you say, R34 and R32 (probably the same poster) don’t mention women at all. Their lives and their right to self-determination—and their importance as individuals to other people—are irrelevant. They’re just flesh envelopes.

I'm R34. I believe in abortion; safe and legal abortion. So your cartoon villain characterization of me and my intentions is way off base. It's idiots like you that increase polarization.

He came to me and took my right to bodily autonomy away, with that Capitol Hill liquor on his breath! And I liked it!

And I am R32. I did mention women by implication because my comment addresses all people, as is evident in what I wrote, which mentions neither sex.

What I didn't do is single women out for special status. That's because I don't believe they have special status, any more than men do.

R32 & R40 person, women do have special status when it comes to pregnancy. Are you crazy? How can you not see that?

Pregnant women have a special status regarding their own pregnancy, just as any patient has special status when it comes to their own health care; but we do not give individuals unlimited control over their health.

Women, collectively, have no special status any more than men do. Even if they did, the special status would apply only to women who are physically capable of being pregnant. Why would a 60-year-old woman have greater voice in this matter than anyone else?

braindead weirdos!

What is a “woman” ?

If a transman is "pro life" should he STFU or is his view valid because uterus?

abortion was legal up until the 1800s and then doctors made it illegal to get rid of the mid-wives because they wanted to bring pregnancy into the medical field. Pure greed

Joan Rivers said abortion should be retroactive.

R7 Everyone starts out as a "glob of cells" but there is already unique DNA. And without the interference an abortion, that glob of cells would become a baby fast. Why bother protecting babies if you say they only have the potential to become an adult....?

R16 There are cases where the woman wants the abortion but the father does not. She gets to decide whether to kill off the fetus or not.

White Evangelicals are the most anti-abortion group there is and they a hold disproportionate amount of political power in Republican majority states. Black women in the South have been doing their hardest to keep abortion a viable option for women especially women who are disadvantaged or victims of assault.

R48, every sperm is also a potential baby. So, do you think we should outlaw jerking off, too?

Vasectomies should also be banned for equality. Will this effect tube tying? Masturbation used to be heavily taboo with boys being punished or "treated" for "self-harm." We know porn will probably be next like what's happening in The UK.