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Madonna Sex is almost 30 years old

In which she gave visual voice to queer desire.

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by Anonymousreply 220June 23, 2022 9:29 AM

Matters to WHO? WHO? FFS, it's pics of a horny tart who'd be a porn star if she wasn't already a pop star.

Stop getting your "what matters" shit from decrepit Rolling Stone.

by Anonymousreply 1May 7, 2022 10:54 PM

There's no way around it--it isn't sexy. It's just terrible.

by Anonymousreply 2May 7, 2022 10:55 PM

"In which she gave visual voice to queer desire."

Huh? She saw a money-making venture, that's all. That was when she was a good businesswoman, instead of a sad involuntary retiree

by Anonymousreply 3May 7, 2022 10:55 PM

The book had a cool silver binding. We'd never seen anything like it before.

by Anonymousreply 4May 7, 2022 10:58 PM

Does anyone have a copy?

by Anonymousreply 5May 7, 2022 10:59 PM

"Visual voice to queer desire" is now "Visceral toys and bois for hire" - I think she humped that stage during Express Yourself in 1990 one too many times.

Come back to the Five and Dime, Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone Penn Ritchie, Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone Penn Ritchie...

by Anonymousreply 6May 7, 2022 10:59 PM

"The book had a cool silver binding. We'd never seen anything like it before."

A silver binding, R4? Groundbreaking.

My bf had one, R5. He threw it out.

by Anonymousreply 7May 7, 2022 11:04 PM

"He threw it out."

Much like the world has done with her, the old cunt.

by Anonymousreply 8May 7, 2022 11:05 PM

R7 Do you know how much that book your bf threw out is worth? DO YOU?

by Anonymousreply 9May 7, 2022 11:07 PM

It was mass produced in the millions, R9. I've sold more valuable books, like Weber's Bear Pond. I got $300 for that silly thing.

by Anonymousreply 10May 7, 2022 11:08 PM

I have a copy. It was a birthday present and my friend bought it on the day it was released. I haven't looked at it in years. I mostly remember that the metal binding was really shitty and the pages started to fall out right away.

by Anonymousreply 11May 7, 2022 11:10 PM

Wasn't it so poorly manufactured that it got easily damaged after a browsing through it a few times?

by Anonymousreply 12May 7, 2022 11:11 PM

Yes, it was retchedly manufactured.

by Anonymousreply 13May 7, 2022 11:12 PM

The binding was terrible. Mine started to come apart after a year or two.

Interestingly, Madonna signed a two-book contract when she did the Sex book. Her follow-up was a photo book documenting her 1993 Girlie Show tour. It was quietly released in 1994.

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by Anonymousreply 14May 8, 2022 12:03 AM

Let’s hope she doesn’t do a sequel!

by Anonymousreply 15May 8, 2022 12:13 AM

I was 15 at the time and really wanted it, but you had to be 18 to buy it. Years later I looked at a friend's copy and it wasn't all that good.

by Anonymousreply 16May 8, 2022 12:31 AM

She's an excellent writer.

by Anonymousreply 17May 8, 2022 1:00 AM

Yeah, she's a real Jackie Collins.

by Anonymousreply 18May 8, 2022 1:06 AM

I bought that Girlie Show book. I remember that one well. I got a copy at the Strand Bookstore in NYC for half price in 1994.

by Anonymousreply 19May 8, 2022 1:11 AM

I bought one & remember the frumpy frau clerk agreed with me that it’s art not porn. My back binding fell off right away & you can’t really reattach it.

The pics are nice but the writing is juvenile!

by Anonymousreply 20May 8, 2022 1:14 AM

A company I used to work for had Madonna as a client and they received a complimentary copy of the SEX book the week before it became publicly available. The HR Dept sent an email that morning that said anyone who wants to see the book could stop by at noon, lunchtime. Well, at 12:15pm, HR sent a follow-up email that said "Please do not come to see Madonna's book. We regret the mix-up". I thought that was odd at the time but I had already pre-ordered my own personal copy of the book so when I received it I knew exactly why that 2nd email got sent out.

by Anonymousreply 21May 8, 2022 1:18 AM

I remember I had a first "date" with a guy I met on a chat line (remember those?) shortly after the book came out. I invited him late one night to my very first apartment after graduating college and brought his copy of the book and we sat on my floor and looked at it so we could keep it flat and not hurt the binding. I could tell he wasn't too into me and he made some sort of remark about my weight (I was 5'10" 165) but then invited himself to spend the night in my bed with me. Once we were in bed, he made the most half-hearted moves on me. I think all we did was awkwardly make out for a bit and maybe jerked each other off. I can't really say I was turned on by him, but I was 22. A breeze would get me hard. (I want to say he was 30, 31.) I never saw him after that until about 3 years later, I was shopping on St. Marks and I ran into him at the Gap. He was a sales clerk. You could not wipe the smirk off my face.

by Anonymousreply 22May 8, 2022 1:28 AM

[QUOTE] I got a copy at the Strand Bookstore in NYC for half price in 1994.

Good things come to those who wait -- for two years.

by Anonymousreply 23May 8, 2022 1:29 AM

No, R23, not the Sex Book, the Girlie Show book, which came out in 94.

by Anonymousreply 24May 8, 2022 1:31 AM

I fondly remember duplicating the poses in Sex with my various tricks, back at the time.

by Anonymousreply 25May 8, 2022 1:31 AM

And Madonna is almost twice as OLD as her shitty book.

Hag.

by Anonymousreply 26May 8, 2022 1:32 AM

Actually, she's more than twice as old. Hag is 63.

by Anonymousreply 27May 8, 2022 1:33 AM

I remember looking at it and thinking "whats the big fucking deal ?" .Oooo she naked . So what ? I thought any fool who wasted the money buying that shit deserved what they got.

by Anonymousreply 28May 8, 2022 1:45 AM

It was cool at the time. I ended up selling mine on ebay years later for $250.00

by Anonymousreply 29May 8, 2022 1:46 AM

[quote]The book had a cool silver binding. We'd never seen anything like it before.

Yes we have. lol

by Anonymousreply 30May 8, 2022 1:54 AM

There are outtakes of her urinating into a bowl. It has pedophilia fantasies. The entire thing is embarrassing. She sounds like a typical college dropout.

by Anonymousreply 31May 8, 2022 1:55 AM

I bought one and never took it out of its foil. It’s still here somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 32May 8, 2022 2:39 AM

I have a copy in my closet somewhere. The binding is still intact.

by Anonymousreply 33May 8, 2022 2:44 AM

I also bought a copy and never took it out of its foil. I don't know what happened to it. Must have lost it when moving. I remember the writing being stupid but some of the images were great.

by Anonymousreply 34May 8, 2022 2:47 AM

Still have my copy. By the way, it was wrapped in mylar. My favorite pics are the ones of her in full gown/hair/makeup with all the boys and Udo Kier.

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by Anonymousreply 35May 8, 2022 2:50 AM

The public library where I worked in the late nineties had a copy in a cabinet under lock and key. I guess they’d acquired it in ‘92, and it sat there untouched for the next decade.

by Anonymousreply 36May 8, 2022 3:22 AM

Doing a pie chart of her brain would be fairly easy. I think half of it is just shit like, "How to put myself on yet another magazine cover".

by Anonymousreply 37May 8, 2022 3:25 AM

I would not be surprised if she tried To do another book like this. NOW

by Anonymousreply 38May 8, 2022 10:24 AM

Is it true that there are pictures of Madonna getting fisted in it?

by Anonymousreply 39May 8, 2022 10:27 AM

The only thing I remember about that book were the pictures of Joey Stefano in it.

by Anonymousreply 40May 8, 2022 10:55 AM

I wish this book was better, because I like the idea of it, but honestly, most of the pictures don't really do it for me, the writing is laughably bad, and Madonna can't keep her sense of "humour" and desire to stick two fingers up out of it (hence the picture with the dog and the story about the underage boy, which clearly she did because Warner Bros originally told her she couldn't include such topics). Wasn't Herb Ritts originally meant to shoot it? I wonder if the pics would've been better in that case? Isabella Rossellini, I think, was fair in her criticism that Madonna was too focused on looking perfect in the photos.

The picture of her hitchhiking is a really good one, I will say. I also like when she has her hair up in that 60s style (similar to in her "Girls Gone Wild" and "Turn Up the Radio" videos, that sort of Brigitte Bardot 60s look). But right now I can't think of many pictures that grabbed me, I'll have to look again sometime. I suppose the one in the school gym does, I kept wondering, is this meant to be forced or is she meant to be enjoying it? So, like, I thought about it for more than 2 seconds is I guess what I'm trying to say.

Honestly, I prefer the videoclip for "Erotica" with the behind the scenes of the shooting of the Sex book.

I don't understand the stories about her and Ingrid and Johnny at all. It ends on a really weird note. She's spent the whole book going on and on about her lesbian sex life and then gets pissed off and insulted when her boyfriend is also having gay sex? Weird.

by Anonymousreply 41May 8, 2022 12:15 PM

When I first saw it, it took me a minute to understand what I was looking at when it was the picture of her giant, hair SNOOCH breaching in the pool like a whale.

by Anonymousreply 42May 9, 2022 2:25 AM

Didn't she shave her pussy for Sex? It's been ages since I've seen it, but I don't remember a big hairy snatch on her.

by Anonymousreply 43May 9, 2022 2:53 AM

I heard Madonna and Demi Moore got together to play both sides of Rapunzel's head in an episode of Shelley Duvall's Fairy Tale Theatre.

by Anonymousreply 44May 9, 2022 3:06 AM

You can read Sex in its entirety here........

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by Anonymousreply 45May 9, 2022 3:07 AM

The S&M pics try too hard for Robert Mapplethorpe.

by Anonymousreply 46May 9, 2022 3:13 AM

"I bought it the day it came out!" = "I'm pushing retirement age"

by Anonymousreply 47May 9, 2022 3:30 AM

R35, I don’t think that’s from the book.

by Anonymousreply 48May 9, 2022 10:08 AM

[quote] Didn't she shave her pussy for Sex? It's been ages since I've seen it, but I don't remember a big hairy snatch on her.

She had a bush. It was a big matted mess in the water.

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by Anonymousreply 49May 9, 2022 10:10 AM

I could totally see her doing a sequel to it or re-releasing it again now.

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by Anonymousreply 50May 9, 2022 10:16 AM

The young woman with Isabella Rossellini is Tatiana Von Furstenberg.

by Anonymousreply 51May 9, 2022 10:24 AM

Original silver Mylar Sealed copies of Madonna's "SEX" book generally go for $1,000+... It was daring and provocative for its time 30 years ago, but tame by today's standards where everything is all over the internet...

by Anonymousreply 52May 9, 2022 10:34 AM

Madonna's "SEX" book should be banned from the school library, it's an outrage. Consider the delicate sensibilities and fragile minds of the children...

by Anonymousreply 53May 9, 2022 11:10 AM

[quote]Madonna Sex is almost 30 years old

I woulda sworn that snatch was 128 years old by the time I left her.

by Anonymousreply 54May 9, 2022 11:12 AM

"Sex" has all the sex appeal of a body chart in a doctor's office.

by Anonymousreply 55May 9, 2022 11:33 AM

Everything Madonna does is cold and calculating. She has as much sex appeal as a box of frozen peas.

I never found her interesting let alone sexy. Never liked her music either. You just know she was in it solely for the money and fame. A good word to describe her is 'joyless'. She also lacks a sense of humor.

Madonna wanted this book to be controversial, especially with the silly S&M photos, it wasn't shocking at all, just sad and laughable. VOGUE featured a S&M themed layout with Rene Russo (then still a model) in the 1970s. Madonna wasn't doing anything new.

Of course, none of Madonna's nonsense, and especially this book, had anything to do with music. Imagine if the world's most popular music artists had to do a sex book to garner attention? This ridiculous waste of paper and ink only proved Madonna didn't have much to offer musically.

by Anonymousreply 56May 10, 2022 1:43 AM

Madonna had a lot to offer musically. She has an incredible catalog.

by Anonymousreply 57May 10, 2022 2:41 AM

It was a booting gimmick then and remains a silly gimmick now.

by Anonymousreply 58May 10, 2022 2:42 AM

Boring not booting

by Anonymousreply 59May 10, 2022 2:42 AM

It did get a lot of press at the time and was quite the event. The world was so different before social media and the internet. I didn't buy it and didn't actually look at it until years later other than what was revealed in the media.

This is going to sound total buzz kill, but as a born and bread upper Midwesterner, I never really respected "shock value" artists - whether Madonna, Maplethorpe, John Waters. Not because the content couldn't be good or interesting, but because growing up where I did, I knew that it was SO easy to shock everyday people and make them uncomfortable. So I never really saw the artistic value or achievement in "shocking" middle America. Not sure if Sex was meant to shock, but it was written about as if it was back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 60May 10, 2022 3:02 AM

such a lightweight

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by Anonymousreply 61May 10, 2022 3:16 AM

ii

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by Anonymousreply 62May 10, 2022 3:22 AM

At the time it was a pretty daring concept for a famous woman like her to be in charge of sexualizing herself instead of men being charge.

by Anonymousreply 63May 10, 2022 1:43 PM

R63 I don't know. I was never a Madonna fan and just shrugged my shoulders about her book.

And people like my parents where barely aware of Madonna and would not have even known or cared about her Sex book.

by Anonymousreply 64May 10, 2022 2:16 PM

Madonna needs to do a Sequel of her SEX book. The whole world is screaming for a follow-up to this Masterpiece!! :-)

by Anonymousreply 65May 10, 2022 2:30 PM

Who fucked Madonna when she was young? Her father? Her brothers? Something ain’t right with this aging sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 66May 10, 2022 2:35 PM

her album "erotica" the sex book and that awful basic instinct wannabe film were ALL a trilogy of major MEDIOCRITY.

by Anonymousreply 67May 10, 2022 2:52 PM

I just watched Body of Evidence. I didn't know there was a scene of Willem Defoe eating her out. It was a lot more explicit than I thought it would be. She was a hot mess in that movie too. Her bush was blonde though.

by Anonymousreply 68May 10, 2022 4:49 PM

That book was SO stupid. I still, all these years later, have second-hand embarrassment for her doing this book. You just know she cringes now when she thinks about this whole stunt. It's never going away.

In the black community, his appearance in this book was what finally sunk Big Daddy Kane's career.

by Anonymousreply 69May 10, 2022 5:01 PM

Didn't that book have photos of rimjobs?

by Anonymousreply 70May 10, 2022 5:22 PM

I wish Vanilla Ice had gone full frontal in the book. What did he have to lose? His career was already on the way out.

by Anonymousreply 71May 10, 2022 5:34 PM

I have the book somewhere in a box. I think both front and back covers have been lost.

by Anonymousreply 72May 10, 2022 5:37 PM

Vanilla Ice still looks fucking good ! Hard to believe hes 54 . Does anyone else remember how he dissed Hagdonna after this book ? Claimed she wouldnt stop pursuing him,etc.

by Anonymousreply 73May 10, 2022 5:43 PM

R22 oh the ego of men.

by Anonymousreply 74May 10, 2022 5:52 PM

You had inter office email in 1992 r21?

by Anonymousreply 75May 10, 2022 6:01 PM

I found a copy on a stoop in Brooklyn a few years ago. The binding was somewhat damaged. I looked it up on eBay -- not worth bothering to sell.

I picked it up just to check it out. I have never seen a less erotic book. It's just cold and mechanical and overthought and over-posed. There's not a bit of heat in it. There's no abandon, no horniness, no joy, no ecstasy. As someone said above, it's about as erotic as a medical textbook. Any random photo of a shirtless fit guy at a beach packs more erotic punch than this whole silver-bound dud.

by Anonymousreply 76May 10, 2022 6:13 PM

What could be less erotic than a book called "Sex"?????

by Anonymousreply 77May 10, 2022 6:45 PM

Didn't Vanilla Ice try to argue he'd been tricked into appearing in the book? I guess that's the whole, standard born-again Christian hypocrisy, because I just looked through the link above and there's no way he doesn't know what's happening in those photos, he's bloody posing for them.

by Anonymousreply 78May 10, 2022 8:00 PM

R78, yup, he did say the pictures were in the book without his permission. Not sure if it's true but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

by Anonymousreply 79May 10, 2022 8:08 PM

r70 the entire book is linked upthread.

by Anonymousreply 80May 10, 2022 9:05 PM

[quote]That book was SO stupid. I still, all these years later, have second-hand embarrassment for her doing this book. You just know she cringes now when she thinks about this whole stunt. It's never going away.

There were a number of people at the time who told Madonna not to do the book because it was basically an insane career move, but she refused to listen.

Madonna was coming off an amazing wave of success at the time, with the Blonde Ambition tour, Like A Prayer and Vogue. She was Queen of the World but the Sex book really took her down a few pegs. She never got back to the level she was before it.

by Anonymousreply 81May 10, 2022 9:07 PM

Strangely enough, she seemed her happiest during the Girlie Show tour...she looked downright angry during Blonde Ambition, despite it being her career high

by Anonymousreply 82May 10, 2022 9:10 PM

Doubtful R79. Steven Meisel and Madonna wouldn’t be stupid enough to run photos that didn’t have a signed models release. I’m surprised they ran the photos since he was over by 92.

by Anonymousreply 83May 10, 2022 9:15 PM

R82, she looked very militant during Blonde Ambition, especially with the curled hair. She did seem like she was having a really great time during the Girlie Show even though it was after the disastrous trifecta of the Sex book, Erotica and Body of Evidence.

by Anonymousreply 84May 10, 2022 9:52 PM

They are reading Madge Sex in 11th grade English class these days. Gen Z.

by Anonymousreply 85May 11, 2022 8:14 AM

[quote]Madonna had a lot to offer musically. She has an incredible catalog.

Madonna had little to offer musically, she doesn't have much of a voice and her music was nothing but re-hashed dance music. She ripped-off so many showbiz icons, pop culture icons, fashion imagery and so much more. In fact, there's a website dedicated to who and what Madonna ripped-off. It's a great read and so true.

Madonna's image was always more important that her actual music. If her music was so "incredible" why can't she still have hits? Why did she have massive plastic surgery ? Why can't she simply stand on her music? Because she was never that good to begin with, that's why.

You actually think she has "an incredible catalog."?!

One thing Madonna could do right, she had the ability to market herself or rather, to hire all the right people. Most serious artists cannot do this, especially musicians and fine arts painters, they don't know a thing about marketing. That's where Madonna's true talent was, to surround herself with people who made her famous and rich. Madonna and her team knew how to come up with gimmicks to push her weak music.

Deep down, she knew she didn't have much to offer musically, so, she kept changing her image, did ridiculous stuff like the SEX book and made her calculated controversies more important that her music. Madonna had little to say musically.

by Anonymousreply 86May 11, 2022 6:09 PM

[quote]Madonna had little to offer musically, she doesn't have much of a voice and her music was nothing but re-hashed dance music.

That's total bullshit. She changed the music business. A no-talent who did re-hashed dance music was Stacey Q or Samantha Fox.

Madonna's catalog has held up beautifully.

by Anonymousreply 87May 11, 2022 6:11 PM

[quote] A no-talent who did re-hashed dance music was Stacey Q or Samantha Fox.

Don't forget me!

by Anonymousreply 88May 11, 2022 6:13 PM

[quote] If her music was so "incredible" why can't she still have hits?

She aged out, as they all do. When was the last time Bruce Springsteen or Stevie Nicks had a hit? Nobody would argue that Prince wasn't a huge talent, but he didn't have a hit for two decades before he died.

by Anonymousreply 89May 11, 2022 6:13 PM

Dear @ R87, Madonna sure won't be listened to 40-50-100+ years from now. That is the sign of great musicianship, if generations down the line still care about past musicians.

You are going on about this no-talent as if she's going to be remembered like Shakespeare! She definitely won't be.

by Anonymousreply 90May 11, 2022 6:16 PM

[quote]One thing Madonna could do right, she had the ability to market herself or rather, to hire all the right people.

Madonna wrote or co-wrote much of her own material. People who have worked with her have praised her skills, and her ability to find a great hook. She was always in charge of her look and her sound. She used producers for her albums, as almost all of them do.

Madonna was really the first female artist who was in complete control of her music and image, she didn't have manager or producer calling the shots.

by Anonymousreply 91May 11, 2022 6:16 PM

[quote]Madonna sure won't be listened to 40-50-100+ years from now.

People are still listening to her music after nearly 40 years, now.

by Anonymousreply 92May 11, 2022 6:17 PM

[quote] Madonna and her team knew how to come up with gimmicks to push her weak music.

She had some of the best pop music of her era

by Anonymousreply 93May 11, 2022 6:18 PM

Madonna has said many times that she didn't personally invent her original look, she said she just dressed like every other girl in the East Village was dressing in the early 80s. I remember being in downtown NYC with my parents at the time (I was just a kid) and there were a lot of girls who had that look.

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by Anonymousreply 94May 11, 2022 6:23 PM

[quote]She changed the music business.

How? By making artifice and spectacle [bold]more important than the actual MUSIC? Is that what she brought to the table? A Les Vegas stage act? [/bold]

Videos being a large part of enjoying music? Lots of people don't need all that bullshit to enjoy music. [bold]Music should stand on it's own. [/bold]. For many other artists, it does.

I don't buy that she aged out as the reason she cannot still have hits. The Rolling Stones are old men, yet they can still sell out their tours. Madonna on stage looks as if she needs a walker. Because she made dancing, and spectacle, such a large part of her career and can no longer move like she used to, well, that's on her. Madonna put too much emphasis on her image over the actual music.

IF her music could stand on its own, none of this would be a problem.

If she was still interested in her music, she wouldn't be spending so much time on IG showing her fake ass, plastic surgery and other nonsense. Again, ALL this has nothing to do with making relevant important pop music.

by Anonymousreply 95May 11, 2022 6:27 PM

[quote] I don't buy that she aged out as the reason she cannot still have hits. The Rolling Stones are old men, yet they can still sell out their tours.

How fucking stupid are you? When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a hit? They've been touring on nostalgia for the past 30 years. Old boomers go and see them play their hits.

And Madonna has repeatedly had some of the top grossing tours ever, and recently. All while not giving into the nostalgia trap.

by Anonymousreply 96May 11, 2022 6:44 PM

[quote] Music should stand on it's own.

God, you sound like such an old Boomer.

"Music shouldn't sell out, man! Music shouldn't have any spectacle to it, man!"

This was the argument that all those 60s former hippies used in the 80s when music became more pop and more showmanlike. Times change, the music business evolved as the culture evolved and there was a new generation of young people who wanted something different.

by Anonymousreply 97May 11, 2022 6:44 PM

[quote]Videos being a large part of enjoying music? Lots of people don't need all that bullshit to enjoy music.

Again, the 60s ended. The 70s ended. Times changed.

by Anonymousreply 98May 11, 2022 6:45 PM

The music video debate was a big deal in the 80s. Here's a fascinating time capsule of Madonna defending the new medium while John Oates resented the whole thing.

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by Anonymousreply 99May 11, 2022 6:47 PM

Borderline came up on my Spotify today and damn that song still sounds great.

by Anonymousreply 100May 11, 2022 6:49 PM

[quote]IF her music could stand on its own, none of this would be a problem.

Her music has been standing on its own for nearly 40 years now.

by Anonymousreply 101May 11, 2022 6:52 PM

[quote] If her music was so "incredible" why can't she still have hits?

Umm, when was the last time Michael Jackson had a hit album? 1994? His comeback attempt--Invincible--bombed. Meanwhile, Madonna had a resurgence roughly from 1998 through 2008 (with the American Life dud in there too). So her music was selling well during this period when she was in her 40s. And it wasn't due to shock value. It was clearly about the music.

by Anonymousreply 102May 11, 2022 7:23 PM

There's no arguing with all these braindead Madonna fanatics.

Trying expanding your musical horizons.

by Anonymousreply 103May 11, 2022 7:27 PM

r103 try understanding the music business and pop culture in general.

by Anonymousreply 104May 11, 2022 7:32 PM

The asshole who keeps bringing up past hits of other artists and how they no longer have hits, doesn't have a fucking clue. Or they are purposely missing the point.

With any kind of important music, no matter the genre, it's about longevity. It's not always hit records or the musicians level of popularity or how much money they've earned. Madonna will not be remembered, she's barely mentioned these days, well, her repulsive physical transformation is certainly talked about, not her music.

But you crazy Madonna fans keep conveniently forgetting that fact. Most of the current DL threads about Madonna are about her new alien face, fake ass implants, new fake tits and her current boy toys. Yes, that's all soooo important to her music! 😂 🤣

by Anonymousreply 105May 11, 2022 7:38 PM

[quote][R103] try understanding the music business and pop culture in general.

Listen moron, I work in the music business, have been for years. I know a hell of a lot about the pop music business than most people in this thread do!

WTF do you know? You got suckered in by an image. Have you ever enjoyed any music without knowing, or caring, what the musicians looked like? Seems highly doubtful.

by Anonymousreply 106May 11, 2022 7:42 PM

[quote]Listen moron, I work in the music business, have been for years. I know a hell of a lot about the pop music business than most people in this thread do!

Apparently not.

[quote]WTF do you know? You got suckered in by an image.

The music was fabulous. Madonna's first few songs were popular before most people even knew what she looked like.

[quote]Have you ever enjoyed any music without knowing, or caring, what the musicians looked like? Seems highly doubtful.

Sure. What does that have to do with anything? Madonna's image is a big part of her persona, as it was will all pop stars from her generation. Michael Jackson, Prince, Sade, George Michael, Annie Lennox and many more. That was what was in fashion at the time.

by Anonymousreply 107May 11, 2022 7:47 PM

[quote]Again, the 60s ended. The 70s ended.

Future is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!

by Anonymousreply 108May 11, 2022 8:11 PM

I don't even think Madonna has ever cared about music very much. She was a product and that sold for a long time.

by Anonymousreply 109May 11, 2022 8:30 PM

I LOVE her line of designer cupcakes with the silicone tips!

by Anonymousreply 110May 11, 2022 8:35 PM

I was pretty young when this book came out, it was seen as shocking at the time. Now it's moldering in some man's basement next to his pack of bubblegum trading cards.

by Anonymousreply 111May 11, 2022 8:43 PM

Thanks for posting the link, R45. The book was released when I was 9 and at the time I wanted to read it more than anything, because I was a huge Madonna fan and several of my aunts and older cousins talked about how tawdry it was, and how Madonna was a crazy attention-seeker.

Now that I've seen the photos, all I can say is that the book is awful because of her silly rants and the ugliness of the images. They were not taken to titillate the public with their portrayal of sexual acts nor cause fascination because of their beauty; they are just part of a juvenile attempt to shock everyone in the same way that a naughty 7-year-old would say "fuck" in front of his grandmother, because he knows that she will be scandalized. The photos with the cross and the candles are particularly transparent in this regard. It's so vulgar in its attempts to get a reaction, that it's impossible not to laugh - and in one of the written passages of the book, she has the nerve to say that pornography is ridiculously laughable... Well, a saying about black pots and kettles comes to mind.

The tacky publicity stunt seriously backfired in the same way that Janet Jackson's silly nipplegate nonsense did, but Madonna managed to bounce back thanks to some really nice ballads, Evita and Ray of Light. Janet's insanely boring music is the true reason behind the utter and complete collapse of her career, rather than the fact that she'd shown her hideously saggy breast on TV.

As far as Erotica is concerned, it was released at the end of Madonna's creative pinnacle: True Blue had some truly lovely songs, Like A Prayer was almost a masterpiece in its entirety and Erotica contains fantastic songs like Deeper and Deeper, Bad Girl, Rain, Thief of Hearts and Words. The problem is that as R86 mentions, she has very little talent and instead of working on improving her limited voice, she concentrated on promotional scandals and opportunism.

Body of Evidence is an awful film, but it isn't any worse than the ridiculously overpraised Basic Instinct, the silly Sliver, the self-important Body Heat, the cheesy 9 1/2 Weeks and many other erotic thrillers that were popular in the 80's and early 90's. These films were all really bad, with awful scripts full of plot holes that used sex scenes to compensate for their lack of quality. Madonna simply jumped on a trend that had made starts of many other atrocious actresses (with the exception of Kathleen Turner), but the controversy with the Sex book ruined her chances.

Anyway, she has had enormous cultural significance and many of her songs are classics. I would say that, with her limited talent, she has gone extremely far and should be grateful for what she has achieved. As far as the Sex book is concerned, the image below is the only one I like, as it is genuinely pretty. The rest is a bit naff, to be honest.

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by Anonymousreply 112May 11, 2022 8:45 PM

With the exception of the cover of Peggy Lee's Fever, which was awful, Erotica was a solid album. Unfortunately the Sex controversy overshadowed the music which was a shame because the album deserved better.

IMHO Bad Girl is the best video Madonna ever did.

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by Anonymousreply 113May 11, 2022 8:56 PM

Way to apply DUMBASS gobbledygook lexis to the past. Book had ZILCH to do with "queer desire".

by Anonymousreply 114May 11, 2022 9:12 PM

[quote] The asshole who keeps bringing up past hits of other artists and how they no longer have hits, doesn't have a fucking clue

Those comments were all posted because yousaid " If her music was so "incredible" why can't she still have hits?".

by Anonymousreply 115May 11, 2022 9:20 PM

Even at her prime in this book she was fit-fat. Big titties, but thick waisted, short legs. take off all the hair and she looks like her father. Assuming by the hairy yak, Silvio has a nice, thick Italian bush, and from the size of her watermelons, good low hangers.

by Anonymousreply 116May 12, 2022 4:43 AM

Only on DL could this be considered "fit -fat." You prisspot queens are fucking ridiculous.

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by Anonymousreply 117May 12, 2022 4:48 AM

[quote] The binding was terrible. Mine started to come apart after a year or two.

Well, to be fair, you can hardly blame the publisher. It’s not like they got one look at the galleys and shrieked, “THIS IS A BOOK FOR THE AGES!!! We must publish it to last!”

by Anonymousreply 118May 12, 2022 4:50 AM

On another thread we have an Anglo-American debate going on about what was T'Pau's biggest hit, and ol' Nostradamus at r105 doesn't think Madonna will be remembered?

by Anonymousreply 119May 12, 2022 4:55 AM

^^Heart and Soul was a brilliant song, one of my personal favorites from the 80s.

by Anonymousreply 120May 12, 2022 5:10 AM

[quote]Those comments were all posted because you said " If her music was so "incredible" why can't she still have hits?".

R112, answered that for you, "The problem is that as [R86] mentions, she has very little talent and instead of working on improving her limited voice, she concentrated on promotional scandals and opportunism."

Madonna is one of those artists who always needed gimmicks to keep the interest going. There was always a new image to coincide with every new LP and tour. Her music could rarely stand on its own.

All you have to do is look at her IG to prove that point. Her fans don't need to see her fake ass and new face.

Madame X? Madame Excrement is more like it.

by Anonymousreply 121May 12, 2022 5:37 AM

[quote]she concentrated on promotional scandals and opportunism."

That's showbiz, baby. You wanna be a big star? You gotta swim with the barracudas.

by Anonymousreply 122May 12, 2022 5:45 AM

[quote]Her music could rarely stand on its own.

Her songs are classics and still getting play 30-plus years later. She made some of the best pop music of her era. She also kept releasing music steadily. Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, great talents that they were, took YEARS off in between releases. And after Thriller, Jackson's stuff was lacking.

by Anonymousreply 123May 12, 2022 5:47 AM

Some of you must have a very weird concept of what constitutes "classics", especially as far as pop music goes.

How many pop artists are true legends and are still listened to by various generations of music fans?

by Anonymousreply 124May 12, 2022 5:54 AM

Madonna is r124. You still hear her stuff all the time.

by Anonymousreply 125May 12, 2022 5:59 AM

r124 see r119

by Anonymousreply 126May 12, 2022 5:59 AM

R121 it didn't refute the original questuon at all. I don't know why so many anti-Madonna people keep bringing up her lack of hits as a 60 year old, when aside from Cher, there is literally no other artist who has continued producing hits into that age.

Whether you think Madonna is a great artist or not, her lack of hits at her age indicates nothing about her greatness or lack of it.

by Anonymousreply 127May 12, 2022 6:35 AM

^ That question being, "if her music is so incredible then why can't she still have hits?"

I'm assuming that person was stoned when they pondered why a musical artist isn't still producing hits in their fucking 60s.

by Anonymousreply 128May 12, 2022 6:40 AM

[quote]Book had ZILCH to do with "queer desire".

Well, I suppose she did go on a lot about eating Ingrid out in the book.

I feel a bit ill just typing that.

by Anonymousreply 129May 12, 2022 11:53 AM

R52 You are talking crap, these books do not sell for $1000+. I had two sealed copies of the Japanese edition, the book came with an additional comic and was housed in a custom white and blue box. I bought them in a discount book/sex shop in Soho London in about 2000 for £40 each. There was a pile of them on display without the boxes. I had read that the Japanese edition is rare so asked the guy working there and he went downstairs and got me two of the boxes. I thought given that they were mint condition, sealed and the rare edition they would one day be worth quite a bit. I sold one a few years later for £100 and the other a couple of years ago for £90, and they were difficult to sell, almost no interest.

by Anonymousreply 130May 12, 2022 12:01 PM

"Queer desire"???? That book is such a piece of shit. A naughty Catholic girl saying "LOOK AT ME!!!!"

by Anonymousreply 131May 12, 2022 12:11 PM

[quote]Madonna had little to offer musically, she doesn't have much of a voice and her music was nothing but re-hashed dance music.

Look, I understand you have this irrational hatred for some silly pop singer, but you are just embarrassing yourself here.

by Anonymousreply 132May 12, 2022 12:15 PM

Anyone got any recommendations for some actual good photography in the vein of what Madonna was trying to do in Sex?

by Anonymousreply 133May 12, 2022 12:15 PM

My mami used to read "Sex" to me to put me to sleep at night.

by Anonymousreply 134May 12, 2022 12:18 PM
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by Anonymousreply 135May 12, 2022 12:20 PM

Why does Madonna post every day on social media? I didn’t realize she was an addict personality.

On second thought, if fame/attention was heroin, she woulda died thirty years ago.

by Anonymousreply 136May 12, 2022 12:28 PM

She was addicted to sports and controll her body image , now she is addict to social media and whatever she is taking with her alcohol

by Anonymousreply 137May 12, 2022 12:34 PM

[quote]Why does Madonna post every day on social media? I didn’t realize she was an addict personality.

Why do you post on DL everyday?

by Anonymousreply 138May 12, 2022 12:49 PM

Is this the book where she gloats about getting eaten out by her female friend, but then in another place vituperates her boyfriend for getting his dick sucked by a guy? The inconsistency was considered, shall we say, not progressive.

by Anonymousreply 139May 12, 2022 12:52 PM

Posting on media every day is the least of her problems R136.

And it doesn't make someone an "addict" either.

by Anonymousreply 140May 12, 2022 12:57 PM

R47 dazzling us with her math skills.

by Anonymousreply 141May 12, 2022 1:12 PM

Well she's not wrong R141, since you had to be 18 y.o. to buy it.

by Anonymousreply 142May 12, 2022 1:24 PM

From 1998 through 2008 or so, Madonna really didn't use many gimmicks to sell her music. Ray of Light, Music, Confessions and Hard Candy didn't benefit from any controversies. They sold because of the music. I mean, she was in her fucking 40s and the internet was huge (obviously(, how much controversy could she have possibly caused? There was that "What it Feels like for a Girl" video but that didn't help the song chart better. It was a dud.

by Anonymousreply 143May 12, 2022 1:42 PM

I’m not sure, R63, that, “I can display myself as a fucktoy object all on my own, just as men have always understood and sold displays of female bodies as fucktoy objects” was a terrific advance. I guess you could argue that if the female performing in the equation walks away with the money, instead of the male, that the exercise is at least the rough equivalent of whoring without a pimp, but it’s still whoring. (Which I realize we moderns call “sex work,” because playing semantics games make it sound so much more empowered for the women who are selling themselves to men for sex.)

by Anonymousreply 144May 12, 2022 1:43 PM

^^Apologies to the group for all the heterosexual sexual politics blah blah blah up there in R-144. I got on a roll because Madonna has always been repellent to me. Damn shame there’s no delete function.

by Anonymousreply 145May 12, 2022 1:47 PM

[quote] I don't know why so many anti-Madonna people keep bringing up her lack of hits as a 60 year old, when aside from Cher, there is literally no other artist who has continued producing hits into that age.

Cher has not had a hit in 23 years. Unless she's currently 83, she stopped having hits well before she hit 60.

by Anonymousreply 146May 12, 2022 8:23 PM

[quote]Well she's not wrong [R141]

That was my point you fucking moron. It's not that hard to add 18 and 30. The comment is stupid.

by Anonymousreply 147May 12, 2022 10:00 PM

r97 except old boomers can spell!

by Anonymousreply 148May 12, 2022 11:42 PM

Where are the spelling errors r148?

by Anonymousreply 149May 13, 2022 12:42 AM

[quote] the self-important Body Heat

[quote] These films were all really bad, with awful scripts full of plot holes that used sex scenes to compensate for their lack of quality.

Body Heat is a fucking classic. And Basic Instinct is entertaining as hell. Even 9 1/2 Weeks has its qualities.

Body of Evidence is just shit. Madonna should work as a Catherine Trammell-like character since, early in her career, Madonna had charisma and charm and could manipulate men into getting things she wanted. But her acting is flat and her voice is monotone. None of the energy and edge that Turner and Stone brought to their roles.

by Anonymousreply 150May 13, 2022 12:54 AM

Unclench R147.

by Anonymousreply 151May 13, 2022 1:18 AM

The photo of her squatting over a metal bowl disgusts me to this day.

by Anonymousreply 152May 13, 2022 1:22 AM

The Sex book was one of the first times I was disappointed in Madonna. There was such ugliness to the book that it was off-putting. Not that I am a prude, but I thought Steven Meisel made Madonna look so harsh and unflattering. I wish Herb Ritts had done it. There would have been more humour, more sensuality, more vulnerability. Meisel and Madonna just went for shock value. The "comic book" was lame.

by Anonymousreply 153May 13, 2022 2:03 AM

yet another project she ripped off of someone else. There was some old French sex book she directly copied a lot of the photo ideas from

just trash

hilarious but trash. Most of the pics weren't that appealing

by Anonymousreply 154May 13, 2022 2:05 AM

Astonishing she’s still doing the same tired schtick 30 years on (and 30 years older). It was tired then, and it’s tired now.

by Anonymousreply 155May 13, 2022 3:54 AM

Here's a great website which lists almost everyone Madonna has ripped off. There are few other sites too.

Madonna doesn't have one original bone in her body. Her original body or her new one!

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by Anonymousreply 156May 13, 2022 8:10 AM

Copyright Infringement.

Lots of comparison photos here.

The Guy Bourdin photo rip-offs are extremely obvious. "Madonna was sued by the family of deceased artist Guy Bourdin for ripping off images from his work for her music video “Hollywood.”

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by Anonymousreply 157May 13, 2022 8:17 AM

DL thread from 2012. Madonna - rip-off artist extraordinaire

"my god, Madonna's This Used To Be My Playground video is an exact copy of the Boy George video!!! Same director or not, they should have at least tried to create something slightly different but no it's identical. It's mind boggling."

"Her song "Erotic" illegally sampled the vocals of a Lebanese singer and is banned in Lebanon because of it. Let's see-"Sky Fits Heaven" has lyrics she BOUGHT from a fucking Gap commercial. "Frozen" is banned in Belgium because she ripped off the melody."

"Her song "Rescue Me" is a blatant ripoff of Deee-lite's "Power of Love". So shameful."

"Have you guys seen all the sites showing her various looks that she copied from other entertainers? damn she's unoriginal."

"Fuck me, I just had a look at all the people she's copied off over the years. I find her scary. She is nothing. She is completely empty. She is 55 years old and she still doesn't know who she is, so she just steals - not only the image, but the personality of others. It all makes sense, now; her bisexual stage, her Letterman interview..wow she is a fucked up woman. I don't care how rich she is, either, I think she seems like a nightmare. If she wasn't a pop star I think she would be a narcissistic 'black widow' type."

"Wow I had no idea Ray of Light was a complete ripoff. It put her back in the spotlight, and i don't recall her ever EVER giving credit to the original artists. What a total vampire fraud she is. Didn't know how bad."

"That's the thing with Madonna-she has no original persona. She just changes her rip-off themes from album to album. Her behavior is so strange and she's NOT on drugs. That's what makes her really sad. I understand why people who are high all the time do crazy things but she acts and thinks this way without any substances altering her state of mind...scary as fuck this broad is."

"Madonna was/is nothing more than a Las Vegas act which was presented to a pop and dance music audience. Anyone with half a brain could see that!"

"Vadge is the biggest copycat, thief and the most overrated female recording act of all time. It's sad that so many people for the past 30 years have had no taste and couldn't see through her gimmicky and rip-off act."

And on and on....and totally on point.

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by Anonymousreply 158May 13, 2022 9:05 AM

Ohh, the above post was written by Jabba so everyone ignore it.

by Anonymousreply 159May 13, 2022 4:34 PM

Ive said it before and I'll say it again,if not for MTV we would have never heard of Madonna .She had no real talent as a singer.Micheal Jackson would have been a nostalgia act without videos. Music videos changed music forever.

by Anonymousreply 160May 13, 2022 4:57 PM

R160, not sure about Madonna but Michael Jackson would have definitely been famous without videos. Thriller started selling like crazy AFTER his moonwalk performance at the Motown Anniversary Special.

by Anonymousreply 161May 13, 2022 4:59 PM

[quote] Micheal Jackson would have been a nostalgia act without videos. Music videos changed music forever.

This is a super stupid take. Jackson was coming off of a huge hit album, Off the Wall, which had several hits, including two #1 singles. Everyone was anticipating his next release. And the first single off Thriller hit #2 with no music video at all. And Billie Jean hit #1 while MTV was still debating whether or not to play it. Thriller would have been massive with or without MTV.

by Anonymousreply 162May 13, 2022 5:08 PM

[quote]Ive said it before and I'll say it again,if not for MTV we would have never heard of Madonna .She had no real talent as a singer.Micheal Jackson would have been a nostalgia act without videos. Music videos changed music forever.

This is obvious and 100% true. The advent of MTV was the downfall of popular music. Artifice took a front seat to actual music.

I don't agree about Micheal Jackson. He already had fans, fans who obviously didn't give a toss about his extreme physical transformations. His fans seemed to only care about the music, not his image. Madonna was all about changing her image every few months, that kept her fan base interested.

by Anonymousreply 163May 13, 2022 11:17 PM

Interesting how the Madonna defenders seemed to have run out of steam.

Guess the truth hurts. 😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣

by Anonymousreply 164May 15, 2022 12:39 AM

r164 the Madonna defenders recognize she was a great entertainer at her peak, but has gone off the rails. Nothing can take away what she accomplished, though. Much has been said on this thread about her cultural and musical importance.

by Anonymousreply 165May 15, 2022 1:41 AM

That NFT was the last straw for this Madonna fan. I'll still listen to her older music but i don't want to see any pictures of her ever again. I have never seen her in concert and I definitely wouldn't pay to see her now.

by Anonymousreply 166May 15, 2022 2:13 AM

r166 this is how Star Trek fans feel about Brent Spiner, after Picard Season 2. Once beloved, but we NEVER want to see him in Star Trek again.

by Anonymousreply 167May 15, 2022 2:18 AM

My name is Pita - like the bread!

by Anonymousreply 168June 2, 2022 12:56 PM

Madonna is the Queen of Pop. Show some respect!

Having said that, she looks like shit.

by Anonymousreply 169June 3, 2022 2:48 AM

It's sad we all know the name of this smelly skank from Detroit instead of the incredibly talented who propped her fraudulent ass up during her bullshit career. I mean, have you ever heard her sing live? She can't hold a tune.

by Anonymousreply 170June 6, 2022 11:33 AM

Why was this appealing to "gay men"?

by Anonymousreply 171June 6, 2022 11:49 AM

Gay YouTubers Matt & Blue raved about her sex book, and I was trying to understand why "gay men" liked her sex book.

by Anonymousreply 172June 6, 2022 11:52 AM

[quote]Madonna was coming off an amazing wave of success at the time, with the Blonde Ambition tour, Like A Prayer and Vogue. She was Queen of the World but the Sex book really took her down a few pegs. She never got back to the level she was before it.

Not to mention that 1992 continued to be a good year for her. A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN (in which she had a supporting role and was third-billed in the ads/posters) was a smash hit that summer. It also spawned her another #1 single with "This Used to Be My Playground."

Then came the fall (pun intended). The SEX book, EROTICA album, and BODY OF EVIDENCE in quick succession. SEX was a bestseller, but it was highly maligned by the critics/public.

by Anonymousreply 173June 6, 2022 2:20 PM

Cher had a top 40 hit on the AC charts in 2018, R146.

by Anonymousreply 174June 6, 2022 3:51 PM

Nobody knows or cares r174

by Anonymousreply 175June 6, 2022 6:10 PM

do you believe in life after Sex

by Anonymousreply 176June 6, 2022 10:28 PM

[quoute]You just know she was in it solely for the money and fame.

You just described every person in show business, you moron.

by Anonymousreply 177June 6, 2022 11:10 PM

Whatever happen to Cher's sequel Album to her ABBA covers. "Dancing Queen". It was a nice seller. She recorded it before the pandemic and tweeted while doing it, then nothing.

by Anonymousreply 178June 6, 2022 11:13 PM

[quote] You just described every person in show business, you moron.

Some people are really dumb. They act as if Madonna is the only one who cared about getting rich and famous.

by Anonymousreply 179June 7, 2022 1:14 AM

I thinks gays and lesbians "gave voice to queer desire" long before Madonna's performative appropriating antics...but thanks!

by Anonymousreply 180June 7, 2022 4:08 AM

But Madonna made it mainstream in a way it had never been before.

by Anonymousreply 181June 7, 2022 4:09 AM

r180 nailed it. Thread closed.

by Anonymousreply 182June 7, 2022 3:37 PM

Madonna did more for gay visibility than anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 183June 7, 2022 4:13 PM

Yeah, hardly anyone even KNEW anyone gay until Madonna pointed them out to America!

by Anonymousreply 184June 7, 2022 6:19 PM

r184 you're quite the simpleton. That's not what was said at all. Madonna brought gay culture and gay men into the mainstream pop culture like no other artist had ever done. It's so old hat now, but back then it was pretty revolutionary.

by Anonymousreply 185June 7, 2022 6:59 PM

Yes, and I disagreed.

You likely aren't old enough to have even observed what you're insisting is true and the only allowable opinion, yours.

I am.

by Anonymousreply 186June 7, 2022 7:01 PM

r186 I was born in 1976 and remember the height of Madonna's fame very well. It is without question that she exposed mainstream audiences to gay culture and gay men in ways that no other artist had ever done. That's just a fact. I don't know why anyone would be so bitchy about something so well-known.

by Anonymousreply 187June 7, 2022 7:11 PM

"Masterpiece," OP???? "Defiant"??????

If you say so, OP.

by Anonymousreply 188June 7, 2022 8:08 PM

Madonna's longevity stems from the momentum her career gained in the 80s. The 90s saw her music take a dramatic turn from her original sound as she fell victim to the trends of the time. Could you imagine if every serious musician or band had done this: Work with different producers just to sell an album? I get that this is the end game of everyone who wants to make a living in a very fickle industry, especially pop music, but she's basically become Pat Boone when he made a metal album. How embarrassing. I've heard many of the music stems and original versions of songs from the MDNA album and the biggest problem with the songs as they appeared on that album was Madonna. I know that this thread is about the Sex book, which at the time was interesting in the sense that you got to see Madonna naked along with some other celebrities which most people seem to enjoy. Unfortunately, it didn't really help her career which has always been the end game for the choices she's made.

by Anonymousreply 189June 8, 2022 10:21 AM

I remember when the book came out. The HMV on the Upper East Side set up a little curtained off area. They would let you go behind the curtain and look at the book for five minutes.

by Anonymousreply 190June 8, 2022 10:42 AM

R185, her bringing gay culture into the mainstream was not always a good thing. She basically ruined the Gaiety Theatre, the gay strip club in Midtown Manhattan by bringing unwanted attention to it.

The result of bringing gay culture mainstream is that exclusively gay spaces are overrun with non-gay people.

by Anonymousreply 191June 8, 2022 10:50 AM

r189 Madonna's best work was in the 90s

by Anonymousreply 192June 8, 2022 2:22 PM

R192 It's not what made her famous.

by Anonymousreply 193June 8, 2022 6:55 PM

Of course it wasn't r193. She was a phenomenon in the 80s. But she matured in the 90s and really put out some great music. The Bedtime Stories album is her best, imho.

by Anonymousreply 194June 8, 2022 7:21 PM

I agree that her best and most interesting work was in the 90s. Everything started going south for me when she released that horrible cover of "American Pie" in 2000.

by Anonymousreply 195June 18, 2022 11:52 PM

I've always hated HATED "American Pie," that song is interminable.

by Anonymousreply 196June 19, 2022 12:46 AM

I hate the original and I hate the cover. Of all the classic songs to cover, she choose that one? It was not a good fit for her at all.

by Anonymousreply 197June 19, 2022 12:48 AM

Agreed r197. I like Madonna, but that is a turd of a song no matter who sings it.

by Anonymousreply 198June 19, 2022 1:09 AM

[quote]It is without question that she exposed mainstream audiences to gay culture and gay men in ways that no other artist had ever done.

Huh? What in the world could you even be referring to? Madonna appropriating ball culture for one song? Her dopey performative Britney kiss? Is that it? Madonna did none of the things you keep insisting are fact. Gays liking her music doesn't make her Harry Hay!

by Anonymousreply 199June 19, 2022 1:11 AM

R198, and the thing is, we know Madonna can do ballads and slower songs well. But this song was not the right one for her. It was totally unnecessary.

by Anonymousreply 200June 19, 2022 1:11 AM

r199 Madonna was very gay friendly and incorporated gay culture from the very beginning. If you were around back then, you understood it. It was very risky for an entertainer to be so unabashedly celebratory of gay culture and gay aesthetic in those days.

by Anonymousreply 201June 19, 2022 1:15 AM

[quote]Madonna was very gay friendly and incorporated gay culture from the very beginning. If you were around back then, you understood it. It was very risky for an entertainer to be so unabashedly celebratory of gay culture and gay aesthetic in those days.

This is yet more bullshit. Most of her rabid fans don't comprehend that Madonna was always all about Madonna.

This woman is amazing at marketing, I will give her that much. Madonna knew that a certain segment of gay men would eat up her re-packaged ripped-off bullshit. Well, the gay men who weren't all that savvy about picking up on her 'new' images (not figuring out who she was ripping off at specific points in her career) and all her other marketing nonsense. Little which had to do with actual music.

I remember reading about an argument she had with one of her former songwriters, he told her off, that he couldn't instantly write hits for her, that he wasn't a robot.

Madonna has ripped off everyone and anyone, all in the name of money and fame.

by Anonymousreply 202June 19, 2022 11:59 PM

You're full of shit r202. Artists influence each other. Madonna took things from the past and re-interpreted them. This is very common.

She was a denizen of the gay clubs and discos for years before she became famous. Her closest friends were mostly gay men. She was outspoken about gay rights and fighting against AIDS in the 80s when many entertainers wouldn't have dared say anything.

by Anonymousreply 203June 20, 2022 12:55 AM

[quote] Well, the gay men who weren't all that savvy about picking up on her 'new' images (not figuring out who she was ripping off at specific points in her career) and all her other marketing nonsense. Little which had to do with actual music.

Everybody knew who her influences were at the time. They loved what she was doing. Her music from the 80s and 90s is some of the best pop music of those eras. Nile Rodgers called her his favorite artist he's ever worked with.

by Anonymousreply 204June 20, 2022 12:56 AM

For the most part, from my knowledge, Madonna has always been pretty open about what she has been influenced by, talking lots about the books, movies etc that inspire her. At her best she was taking her influences and putting a twist on them. I personally think this is different from someone like, say, Beyoncé, who seems to just say: "I like the look of that, let's recreate it for my video just to make me look good."

by Anonymousreply 205June 20, 2022 8:15 AM

Madonna never acknowledged that she ripped off Robert Mapplethorpe and Cindy Sherman for the Sex book. She certainly didn’t acknowledge ripping off Guy Bourdin for the Hollywood music video (hence the lawsuit). And let’s not forget the Gap commercial she ripped off for “Sky Fits Heaven” from Ray of Light. She obviously stole from Vanity for her Like a Virgin-era get up and took Melanie Griffith’s hairstyle from Body Double for her True Blue era.

by Anonymousreply 206June 20, 2022 2:54 PM

I really wish she would do a sequel to Sex. To show she is not ashamed of the first go-round. Plus it would allow the world to see a natural 64-year-old woman expressing herself sexually.

I think the world needs to see men eating out a 64-year-old pussy. We are too youth-focused. Madonna could allow this to be subversive.

The focus of the book should show Madonna as a still sexually desirable woman to 25 year olds, turning the table on how men can get away with it, but not women. Sexy shots of young men enjoying Madonna's mature body. So sensuous.

I would hope we would get pictures of Madonna's gorgeous 64-year-old body, including beaver shots, normalizing the nudity of older women.

This could be an important book and the one project that will define Madonna's legacy for a lifetime.

Sex 2.

by Anonymousreply 207June 21, 2022 12:33 AM

[quote]You're full of shit [R202]. Artists influence each other. Madonna took things from the past and re-interpreted them. This is very common.

Please STFU. She's made her millions she doesn't need you defending her. I'm so tired of clueless people defending this woman.

There are several websites dedicated to Madonna outright ripping off music and copyrighted imagery. There was absolutely NO re-interpretation, there was outright STEALING.

The late photographer Guy Bourdin's fashion photos Madonna obviously ripped off for her "Hollywood" video, she was later sued by his family!

Enjoy this website.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 208June 21, 2022 2:17 AM

r208 artists are influenced all the time. What Madonna did is very common in the industry. Obviously people weren't outraged by it because her career never suffered for it.

by Anonymousreply 209June 21, 2022 2:19 AM

"Filmmaker/actor Vincent D'Onofrio sued Madonna for ripping off his idea he pitched to her and her agents for the remake of the film, “Swept Away.” The lawsuit is currently in the court system. However, the film fittingly bombed and was voted the worst movie ever. The copyright owner of the original Swept Away script recently expressed his regret at allowing her to remake his film, due to how badly it turned out."

"Madonna ripped off the 1989 song "Deep In Vogue" by Malcolm McLaren for her 1990 song "Vogue." As with my songs, she stole it shortly after it was made available to the public. His song was released on July 19, 1989 on Epic Records and her rip off was released almost a year later on April 5th, 1990. His song came out first and was about "voguing." Madonna's rip off brought his idea/music/dance trend to the mainstream by stealing it from him, along with melodies, harmonies and portions of his beat. Madonna even tries to sing like the female vocalist on McLaren's track. She then stole the dance that was created to go with the song by dancers in downtown New York."

by Anonymousreply 210June 21, 2022 2:44 AM

"In my opinion, one of her worst, most disgraceful and brazen rip offs was the work she outright stole from Prince protégé, Ingrid Chavez. She stole Chavez’s style and lyrics for her song, “Justify My Love” which is featured on her “Erotica” album. Chavez said, "Madonna only changed one line of the entire song” and stole writers credit for the song, even though Chavez was the one who wrote it (this has been said of her by other credible writers as well involving other songs. The song did match Chavez's trademark style, which at the time was once again unlike anything Madonna had done. Much like my style of music is unlike anything Madonna has done.

An article excerpt: "Meanwhile, Chavez sued Lenny Kravitz for not giving her credit for co-writing Madonna's Justify My Love. Chavez's style consists of breathy spoken passages over heavy dance beats and this can be clearly heard in the Madonna track. Chavez is quoted as having said that Kravitz didn't write any of the lyrics and only came up with the phrase justify my love. She is also reported to have said that Madonna only changed one line of the entire song. She was finally given credit for the lyrics plus a rumored couple of million dollars in an out-of-court settlement."

by Anonymousreply 211June 21, 2022 2:46 AM

Lenny Kravitz was having an affair with Ingrid and didn't want it to come to light which may explain why Ingrid got no credit.

But, yes, Ingrid was shafted and finally got credit on later Madonna releases.

by Anonymousreply 212June 21, 2022 2:54 AM

"Madonna Stole The "Sex" Book A book that is currently available in stores titled, “Madonna: An Intimate Biography,” alleges that Madonna ripped off the idea for her “Sex” book from a publishing executive named Judith Regan (page 221). It was further alleged in another article that the photographs in Madonna's book Sex was a rip off of an old French book by a well know French photographer. Coincidentally, she did an interview with an Hungarian paper, and due to the translation, the name of the book was fittingly called "Slut."

Here's an excerpt from Blikk (publication): BLIKK: OK, here's a question from left space. What was your book "Slut" about? MADONNA: It was called "Sex", my book. BLIKK: Not in Hungary. Here it was called "Slut."

LMAO

by Anonymousreply 213June 21, 2022 3:16 AM

Another great site to read about Madonna's years of ripping off others, "Madonna Blows Chunks"

This section is about how she totally ripped-off the late great fashion photographer Guy Bourdin.

If these images aren't enough to prove she's a shameless thief, I don't know what is!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 214June 21, 2022 3:23 AM

I was just watching the "Erotica" video then with all the images from this book and I thought, you know whatever you think of this period in her career (and as interesting as I find and as much as I enjoy a lot of it, I'm definitely critical of some of it too), I don't know that she's ever been as involved down to ant-fuckery level in any other album project before or since. She really was trying to put a whole package together that had a lot of thought in it.

She even sounds really interesting in her interviews around this time. Quite frankly, sex is probably the best thing she can discuss without lapsing too much into clichés.

by Anonymousreply 215June 23, 2022 8:08 AM

I remember stumbling across this book at my cousin's house (it was his mom's) and it traumatized the hell outta me.

I was in 1st grade...

by Anonymousreply 216June 23, 2022 8:37 AM

R216, funny you say that, I was just remembering yesterday how at 5 years old I was at the house of a friend of my father's, and while all the adults were upstairs getting drunk, the kids were left to play in the basement, which was a converted bar, full of alcohol ('it was acceptable in the 80s', as the song goes). My dad's mate had a giant poster of a lady with no pants on sitting at a bar next to his bar, and I remember finding it kinda disturbing. These days I'd find it campy and of it's time, but I was really put off by it then. Even before knowing that gay was even a thing I knew I didn't want to go near that haha.

by Anonymousreply 217June 23, 2022 8:42 AM

Lol, r217. Funny how our minds exaggerate things as children. I mean, I look back on it now and laugh, mainly because compared to now, what was in the book is fairly tame and not that big of a deal. Dare I say, it was more so "artistic" as opposed to being trashy.

Honestly, it was mainly the BDSM stuff that I found "scary." Damn her for choosing a silver cover. Everyone knows kids are drawn to shiny things like moths to a flame. Also, my cousin's mom was obviously really shitty with hiding items from the kids. He would find all kinds of "adult material" and tease us with it since, we too, were relegated to the basement to play (mostly video games). He knew where literally everything he wasn't supposed to see was in the house. Now, he won't even let his teen daughter have a social media account (for good reason) and is super strict. It's hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 218June 23, 2022 8:54 AM

Totally, R218. And I get you too. BDSM stuff always seemed "scary" to me too when I was young. There was this excellent German documentary called Sex and Pop about sex in pop music and every episode was on a different topic: women, black people, gay people, and the last was on BDSM stuff (like Die Form etc), and that was the episode as a kid I just couldn't watch, haha.

Haha so funny about your friend, he's not taking no chances!

by Anonymousreply 219June 23, 2022 8:58 AM

"In which she gave visual voice to queer desire."

Better visual than auto-tune.

by Anonymousreply 220June 23, 2022 9:29 AM
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