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***BREAKING*** Supreme Court halts COVID-19 vaccine rule for US businesses

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has stopped the Biden administration from enforcing a requirement that employees at large businesses be vaccinated against COVID-19 or undergo weekly testing and wear a mask on the job.

At the same time, the court is allowing the administration to proceed with a vaccine mandate for most health care workers in the U.S.

The court’s orders Thursday during a spike in coronavirus cases was a mixed bag for the administration’s efforts to boost the vaccination rate among Americans.

The court's conservative majority concluded the administration overstepped its authority by seeking to impose the vaccine-or-test rule on U.S. businesses with at least 100 employees. More than 80 million people would have been affected.

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by Anonymousreply 154January 24, 2022 1:54 AM

Supreme Court to US: "Drop dead"

by Anonymousreply 1January 13, 2022 7:40 PM

Jfc. Nice knowing you America.

by Anonymousreply 2January 13, 2022 7:43 PM

It would be poetic justice if maybe 2 or 3 of the Republican justices died from Covid complications. I would dance, laugh, and celebrate.

by Anonymousreply 3January 13, 2022 7:54 PM

WTF?

by Anonymousreply 4January 13, 2022 7:59 PM

Anti vaxxers are rejoicing

by Anonymousreply 5January 13, 2022 8:01 PM

Can the US get to a million dead? It's as exciting as the Jerry Lewis MDA Telethon tote board. We should set one up!

by Anonymousreply 6January 13, 2022 8:04 PM

There's a certain relentlessness in the way the GOP has gone about as a whole in overseeing the demise of their own constituents.

by Anonymousreply 7January 13, 2022 8:06 PM

r6 by the end of winter, surely

by Anonymousreply 8January 13, 2022 8:08 PM

Good. Good.

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by Anonymousreply 9January 13, 2022 8:09 PM

So does this affect everything?

Restaurants, Airlines, Hollywood, Firemen, Police, etc.?

And what does it mean for those who were let go because of this rule?

Do they get re-hired? And back pay?

What a cluster fuck.

by Anonymousreply 10January 13, 2022 8:12 PM

[quote]Can the US get to a million dead?

Numbers-crunchers at The Economist say we've already surpassed that number.

by Anonymousreply 11January 13, 2022 8:14 PM

But Pfizer?

by Anonymousreply 12January 13, 2022 8:17 PM

WTF R12?

by Anonymousreply 13January 13, 2022 8:22 PM

The common good should supersede personal choice. R14 is common but not good.

by Anonymousreply 16January 13, 2022 8:28 PM

In the case of COVID vaccine "choice" effects the well-being and lives of others, not just ones self. It also effects businesses ability to stay open with serious risk to workers.

by Anonymousreply 17January 13, 2022 8:33 PM

No, R16, that is communism.

by Anonymousreply 18January 13, 2022 8:34 PM

R17 The government shuts businesses not the virus.

by Anonymousreply 19January 13, 2022 8:35 PM

At least health care workers in hospitals will be required.

by Anonymousreply 20January 13, 2022 8:35 PM

[quote]Sorry to be a disenter but that is what freedom is all about .

Seems to me the SC just ruled that a lethal virus has more freedom than I do.

by Anonymousreply 21January 13, 2022 8:36 PM

We reserve the right to passively aggressively kill you all.

by Anonymousreply 22January 13, 2022 8:38 PM

Uh, so my freedom to remain healthy doesn't count? Funny, only the personal freedoms of anti vax loons count.

by Anonymousreply 24January 13, 2022 8:39 PM

R18 wouldn't know communism if it bit him in his fst, flabby white ass.

R18s of the world are like parrots: they simply ape everything they hear on Faux News.

by Anonymousreply 25January 13, 2022 8:40 PM

R23, now do all the people who were hospitalized....

by Anonymousreply 26January 13, 2022 8:40 PM

R16 Who decides common good? In the 1700s, killing the Native Americans was for “the common good”.

You cannot say you stand for freedom and choice, and force a vaccine. You cannot say you support black people, and force a vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 27January 13, 2022 8:40 PM

I like it.

by Anonymousreply 28January 13, 2022 8:40 PM

[quote]99.3% of the population of the US has survived that 'lethal' virus.

"It's only killed a million people, what's the big deal?"

by Anonymousreply 29January 13, 2022 8:40 PM

R23 cite your source. Real clear politics has the death over 1,5%

by Anonymousreply 30January 13, 2022 8:41 PM

The freepers going on and on about "choice" wanted to throw gay people out of the military for having homosexual thoughts

by Anonymousreply 31January 13, 2022 8:41 PM

Like I said elsewhere, the courts were never going to agree to a blanket requirement that everyone had to get a vaccine or wear a mask no matter what.

That doesn't mean the government can't mandate vaccines in order to go to school or state universities, to enter federal buildings, to travel internationally, to work in healthcare, any number of things. They can tell businesses that they don't get certain tax incentives or benefits unless their employees are vaxxed. There are solutions to this problem that will help.

by Anonymousreply 32January 13, 2022 8:42 PM

Can I cough on your grandparents R23?

by Anonymousreply 33January 13, 2022 8:42 PM

99% of people who got polio didn't die from it....I guess we should stop requiring polio vaccines then

by Anonymousreply 34January 13, 2022 8:42 PM

We’re so fucked.

How many of our “both sides” press enablers can be counted in to call out the link between the ongoing harm of the pandemic and this decision one month, six months, or a year from now?

by Anonymousreply 35January 13, 2022 8:43 PM

Our hospitals should just close down since it's such a harmless virus.

by Anonymousreply 36January 13, 2022 8:45 PM

R36 No, the unvaccinated should be turned away from hospitals if they are there for COVID symptoms.

by Anonymousreply 38January 13, 2022 8:49 PM

R23, you are absolutely right! I have not yet died from not wearing my seatbelt! Why should the government be allowed to tell me that I have to wear it? Same thing with running red lights or drunk driving! And don't even get me started on not being able to legally buy and inject heroine. This government sucks and I am so over the democrat socialist communism taking away our freedumbs. We need to rise up and protest this treatment STAT!

by Anonymousreply 39January 13, 2022 8:49 PM

…and you can see the little arrows point up and to the right?

by Anonymousreply 40January 13, 2022 8:50 PM

R37, how many people do you think died from the measles? We require vaccines for that in schools

by Anonymousreply 41January 13, 2022 8:51 PM

Using "communism" as a reason in 2022 outs you as the Q-Loon you are.

by Anonymousreply 42January 13, 2022 8:51 PM

R37 thinks a dozen soldiers dying in Afghanistan means Biden should be impeached

But 840,000 people dying is no biggie!

by Anonymousreply 43January 13, 2022 8:52 PM

[Quote]Sorry to be a disenter but that is what freedom is all about . Choice

The US practices freedom within the framework of Democracy. Issues like this should go to referendum then so a few conservative dimwits on the court can't impose their will on the majority.

by Anonymousreply 44January 13, 2022 8:52 PM

I eat old dead people’s covid infested excrement.

by Anonymousreply 45January 13, 2022 8:54 PM

I'm all about freedom! If businesses want to turn away customers for being gay they should be allowed to! Businesses should be allowed to fire people for being gay! States should be allowed to put gay men in jail for having consensual sex!

by Anonymousreply 46January 13, 2022 8:56 PM

Why would anyone still think that a "vaccine" that doesn't even last 3 months is THE answer? Are you so childishly invested in maintaining the illusion that your cowardly decision to hold out your arm for the first snake oil salesman to come along was that right one? I know cognitive dissonance is a bitch, but the reality is that the vaccine is not very efficacious. Since it CLEARLY does not prevent transmission reliably, what is the point of forcing anyone to get it? Get off your crosses because you aren't protecting anyone by getting vaccinated. You think it still keeps you from dying or going to the hospital but the truth is that the vast majority of people who get COVID only experience mild symptoms.

by Anonymousreply 47January 13, 2022 8:59 PM

R47: you simply shouldn't have the monopoly on stupidity and willful ignorance that your post indicates.

by Anonymousreply 48January 13, 2022 9:07 PM

R47 the vast majority who have died have been unvaccinated. If that doesn’t mean anything to you, you’re a fucking idiot.

by Anonymousreply 49January 13, 2022 9:12 PM

[quote] So does this affect everything?

My understanding is that the Supreme Court is forbidding the government from imposing a vaccine mandate. The court ruled that the government doesn't have that power or authority. But private businesses, acting on their own, can still choose to require their workers or customers to be vaccinated. So if restaurants or bars or airlines want their employees or customers to be vaccinated, they can require it. But the government can't force them to.

by Anonymousreply 50January 13, 2022 9:20 PM

Praise Be.

by Anonymousreply 51January 13, 2022 9:22 PM

The Supremes tell the unvaxxed...Go suck on a pee popsicle& listen to Dr Joe Rogan

by Anonymousreply 52January 13, 2022 9:32 PM

R47 is ignorant of COVID and of vaccination (for all manner of disease). Probably a troll or a Republican which unfortunately seems to be the norm, although Trump has even been advising vaccination.

Suggest anyone with question speak to their primary physician or health care provider for accurate information to maximize their health (with vaccination) when necessary.

The Supreme Court is inhabited by reactionaries who do not come close to representing either majority opinion or it seems the welfare of the American people. It’s stunning, but I expect as much. Several of the them are legal dinosaurs living in the 19th Century.

by Anonymousreply 53January 13, 2022 9:34 PM

R47, why are you terrified to get a safe vaccine?

by Anonymousreply 54January 13, 2022 9:40 PM

R47, the vast majority of people who get the vaccine only have mild side effects but you are still scared of it!

by Anonymousreply 55January 13, 2022 9:41 PM

[quote] In the case of COVID vaccine "choice" effects the well-being and lives of others, not just ones self. It also effects businesses

Oh, DEAR!

by Anonymousreply 56January 13, 2022 9:44 PM

But her emails!!

by Anonymousreply 57January 13, 2022 9:49 PM

Chalie, with all due respect, do you really think an ignorant tool like R47 is capable of having a rational, intelligent discussion with a medical doctor. I mean it's obvious the clown gets all his knowledge of medicine from Facebook.

by Anonymousreply 58January 13, 2022 10:12 PM

Small price to pay! I had my say and voted for Stein in 2016 just to show my progressive cred on Instagram.

I don’t really care that Trump got to stack the court with embarrassingly unqualified rightwing ideologues — I’m covered by my parents’ excellent private health insurance, and don’t have to go to a workplace to work because they pulled some strings and I got a grant.

by Anonymousreply 59January 13, 2022 10:20 PM

Strange contrast as the Army is heading to states to help out in beagured hospitals.

by Anonymousreply 60January 13, 2022 10:23 PM

beleagured

by Anonymousreply 61January 13, 2022 10:23 PM

The TRUMPERS now have the "individual right" to give the rest of us Covid. Insane. The GOP stole the Supreme Court. In broad daylight. And Nancy and Chuck and YES even Obama did nothing to stop it. How do you think the GOP Supreme Court is going to rule when the election is stolen in 2024?

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by Anonymousreply 62January 13, 2022 11:00 PM

[quote] Strange contrast as the Army is heading to states to help out in beagured hospitals.

Not really.

Biden is trying to help out, despite the fact that the Supreme Court is undermining his efforts to stop the spread of Covid.

He's doing what he can, given the circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 63January 13, 2022 11:47 PM

"I don't think things will get worse" = Jewish citizens watching Hitler in 1934. ......"I don't think things will get worse" = Democrats and Gays and Black Voters watching the GOP in 2022.

by Anonymousreply 64January 14, 2022 12:15 AM

Biden thinks this is the Kingdom of the United States and he rules. So sad, too bad, Joe.

by Anonymousreply 65January 14, 2022 12:22 AM

R65 = Misses Trump.

by Anonymousreply 66January 14, 2022 12:23 AM

It's every man for himself now, survival of the fittest.

by Anonymousreply 67January 14, 2022 12:23 AM

And Biden apparently has zero desire to expand The Supreme Court.

by Anonymousreply 68January 14, 2022 12:24 AM

Biden handled the epidemic terribly. He should have cut funding to the states for Covid. Georgia received $50 million to hire staffing agency nurses & respiratory therapists. That's shameful

He shouldn't have ordered mandates either. There were so many better ways to handle this. He should have made this hurt the unvaxxed financially. More people have died in 2021 than in 2020

by Anonymousreply 69January 14, 2022 12:43 AM

R68: You misspelled Joe Manchin, dear.

R65: Kill yourself, Nazi.

by Anonymousreply 70January 14, 2022 12:47 AM

Biden doesn't order anything or make decisions, who is really running the country?

by Anonymousreply 71January 14, 2022 1:49 AM

[quote][R68]: You misspelled Joe Manchin, dear.

I didn't mention Joe Manchin, dear.

by Anonymousreply 72January 14, 2022 1:56 AM

[quote] And Biden apparently has zero desire to expand The Supreme Court.

That would open the door for Republican administrations to expand it as well. It would never stop.

by Anonymousreply 73January 14, 2022 3:53 AM

R72: I know. That's because you clearly do not understand how the American system of government works, dear. Congress must authorize an expansion of the court. The President cannot unilaterally do so, dear.

by Anonymousreply 74January 14, 2022 3:55 AM

Here is the guy running the show. Do you think he has Putin or Xi Jinping quaking in their boots?

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by Anonymousreply 75January 14, 2022 8:09 AM

You're wrong, R54. He isn't scared and the vaccine isn't safe.

Anyone who rolls up their sleeve to take a shot that was fast-tracked for approval like this was, bypassing the necessary, required protocols is a fool. And who demands that everyone else follow suit is a menace. Like you.

by Anonymousreply 76January 14, 2022 8:15 AM

R75 = At least Biden isn't kissing Putins ass like Trump used to.

by Anonymousreply 77January 14, 2022 8:18 AM

Trump was reactive enough that Putin wouldn't have dared call his bluff. Doddering old Joe can't find his ass with both hands. Did you watch the clip?

by Anonymousreply 78January 14, 2022 8:28 AM

I posted this on another thread but FYI = If you have gone to "Center for Covid Control" you are going to want to be on alert. They are being shut down in various states and being investigated. People are going to this clinic chain and giving out all kinds of personal and medical information. One man said he was told he was negative, went to the hospital the same day and was positive. The man who owns these centers posted online he bought luxury cars with "covid money"--so you know where that is going to lead (LINK)..He posted the photos of his cars online (which were screen captured and he has since deleted). The wife posted pix of her mansion online. They have BBB complaints piling up to earn them an F-RATING. They are in multiple states.

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by Anonymousreply 79January 14, 2022 8:32 AM

[quote] Trump was reactive enough that Putin wouldn't have dared call his bluff.

This is hilarious delusion.

by Anonymousreply 80January 14, 2022 8:53 AM

I'm not scared of the vaccine. I think it's worthless, practically a placebo, just a virtue signal for cretins who think it's possible to eradicate a quickly mutating coronavirus with a single antigen vaccine.

I do think it would be poetic justice if they ever find some chronic unintended consequences of this 1st gen mRNA tech though. It took the doctors and scientists 5 years to connect thalidomide to the birth defects it was causing. All the people now sanctimoniously patting themselves on the back, as if consuming pharmaceuticals is a moral virtue, are just begging for karma to slap them in the face.

by Anonymousreply 81January 14, 2022 9:00 AM

Good. More unvaxxed (aka deplorables) are going to die. Hopefully around 5 million of them drop dead before 2024.

by Anonymousreply 82January 14, 2022 9:06 AM

R81 your brain is broken. It's been proven repeatedly that the vaccinated are 80% + less likely to need hospitalization and die, versus the unvaccinated or "natural immunity" folks.

You're just spreading misinformation.

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by Anonymousreply 83January 14, 2022 9:21 AM

My new employer requires employees to be vaccinated. It's a condition of employment. And I'm 100 percent okay with it -- triple vaxed here.

by Anonymousreply 84January 14, 2022 9:24 AM

[quote]Anyone who rolls up their sleeve to take a shot that was fast-tracked for approval like this was, bypassing the necessary, required protocols is a fool. And who demands that everyone else follow suit is a menace. Like you.

You're still living in the 70's. It's new technology. But that's OK, you're one of those that are filling the hospitals once they get it.

by Anonymousreply 85January 14, 2022 9:37 AM

R76 They didn't bypass the "necessary protocols". Once again you prove you know nothing about the approval process. All you have is suspicion, and unwarranted suspicion at that.

by Anonymousreply 86January 14, 2022 9:46 AM

r76, your concerns were valid in December of 2020 when the vaccines were brand new. (even though the technology that was used to develop them has existed for the past 15 years and much research was done on them prior to the development of these vaccines). There have been over 4 billion "guinea pigs" now in January 2022. If the vaccines were unsafe, millions upon millions would be dropping dead or coming down with bizarre symptoms from the vaccines by now. The fact that they are not is evidence that your statement is dead wrong.

by Anonymousreply 87January 14, 2022 9:50 AM

"The First Million is the Hardest..." ....Adolf Hitler

by Anonymousreply 88January 14, 2022 9:55 AM

R87, side effects don't necessarily show up immediately, and don't by definition consist of a person dropping dead. Your comment is overly simplistic.

Look up a familiar prescription pharmaceutical--your choice. See what year it was developed. Then read on to see what year it was approved by the FDA. The intervening years between the two dates are necessary to learn about human reactions to the drug, and they are necessary. R81's example of Thalidomide is but one example.

by Anonymousreply 89January 14, 2022 11:09 AM

[quote]In the case of COVID vaccine "choice" effects the well-being and lives of others

Not if those "others" are vaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you're less likely to get severely ill, hospitalized, or die. You can, however, still spread the virus to others when vaccinated. So, this mandate made no fucking sense. It's not like this virus and its vaccine is polio, smallpox, measles, mumps, etc. It mutates every five damn minutes, and is roaming through the human population unchecked in numerous places on Earth and countries that haven't even received the 1st dose yet.

Worry about yourself, get vaccinated and boosted to your hearts content if you so choose and leave everyone else to their own devices. The hysteria over this damn virus from fully vaccinated and boosted people is insane and no one is taking you guys seriously anymore; even other fully vaccinated people. Get vaxxed, chill, and for crying out loud STFU, already.

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by Anonymousreply 90January 14, 2022 11:20 AM

The vaccinated are far less likely to spread disease, r90.

Not that I expect someone like you who shrieks "shut the fuck up" at people who say things he doesn't want to hear would care about facts.

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by Anonymousreply 91January 14, 2022 11:27 AM

[quote]The vaccinated are [bold]far less likely[/bold] to spread disease

[quote]You [bold]can, however, still[/bold] spread the virus to others when vaccinated.

We are, quite literally, saying the same damn thing in different ways. Thus, your response was unneeded.

And, that article was written before Omicron, which is far more contagious (but more mild). The virus is mutating to be less severe, the vaccines protect the vaccinated. We are heading in the right direction and there is no need for a mandate or panic. People who choose not to be vaccinated and have never had prior infection (so no immunity) are the one's gambling with their lives, and so what? That's on them.

People gamble with their lives by smoking and the lives of others via secondhand smoke. Cigarettes are still legal, as hell, though. It's time to move on. As more people get infected, immunity is increasing in the population, anyway, for the unvaccinated, unboosted, and boosted. Why are you people so determined for everything to still be shit? It's almost like you [italic]want[/italic] it to be the end of the world.

by Anonymousreply 92January 14, 2022 11:40 AM

^^ *that article, and the study it's referring to, was written before Omicron

by Anonymousreply 93January 14, 2022 11:45 AM

Can we just agree you are BOTH assholes, whether you are vaxxed or not?....

by Anonymousreply 94January 14, 2022 11:53 AM

The 'vaccines' don't provide immunity or prevent transmission, they won't stop you dying of Covid and they may very well kill you, destroy your health or leave you permanently disabled.

by Anonymousreply 95January 14, 2022 12:00 PM

Over 95% of those currently hospitalized with COVID related symptoms are unvaccinated.

by Anonymousreply 96January 14, 2022 12:04 PM

[quote]The 'vaccines' don't provide immunity

Incorrect.

[quote]or prevent transmission,

Correct

[quote]they won't stop you dying of Covid

If you have 4+ comorbidities and are of advanced age, this is correct, but less so than the naive and unvaccinated. Otherwise, on average, incorrect.

[quote]and they may very well kill you, destroy your health or leave you permanently disabled.

This is the case with all pharmaceuticals. That's what individual risk/benefit analysis in medicine is for.

Here endeth the lesson.

by Anonymousreply 97January 14, 2022 12:06 PM

That’s what makes no sense about the supremes osha decision. It is a work place hazard. Like smoking. If you want to smoke do it outside. If you want to not be vaccinated, work from someplace else. Anywhere but not where you put others at risk.

The supremes and their my body my choice will go this way on vaccines and then my fetus not your body on abortion.

Senate: broken. Supreme Court: Broken

America is O V E R. Thankfully with world on fire we only have until 2030 until the economy collapses and 2040 until the end times with us going full waterworld/mad max in between.

Here’s to being a childless elder gay….

by Anonymousreply 98January 14, 2022 12:07 PM

[quote]America is O V E R. Thankfully with world on fire we only have until 2030 until the economy collapses and 2040 until the end times with us going full waterworld/mad max in between.

MARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 99January 14, 2022 12:13 PM

I'm vaxxed and boosted and obey all the laws but believe this was a correct decision. Biden was overreaching with OSHA, I said this at the onset.

Vaxxed people can get and spread the virus. The present dominant strain is mild for the vaxxed. The only reason for mandating it is to slow down hospital admissions. An admirable goal but it is debatable whether it rises to the level of such a administrative overreach by the federal government. The country will not fall apart, it will not speed the spread of this already rapidly spreading variant (or at least not by much).

by Anonymousreply 100January 14, 2022 12:27 PM

[quote]It is a work place hazard. Like smoking. If you want to smoke do it outside.

But, with smoking, you are actively releasing toxic, carcinogenic, fumes into the atmosphere. Being unvaccinated does not mean someone is actively infected and being vaccinated does not mean someone [italic]isn't[/italic] actively infected.

A vaccine mandate is not a good mitigation strategy to stop the spread of a contagion in the workplace, especially not with Omicron getting around the block faster than a Las Vegas hooker.

A testing mandate regardless of vaccination status, however, is. We should also only be testing symptomatic people and using rapid antigen testing as it is far more accurate when it comes to catching both a positive AND contagious individual. PCR doesn't test for live virus and can remain positive for weeks post-infection.

Either way, though, vaccinated people are protected from severe illness. A friend of mine is vaccinated (unboosted) and she had COVID a couple of weeks ago. It was just a runny nose and sneezing. Super mild. Again. Chill.

by Anonymousreply 101January 14, 2022 12:29 PM

Vaccines and masks (and, yes, testing) mitigates the disease. No one has ever claimed it'll stop COVID for good, or if they did, it was over a year ago before anyone knew how this would pan out.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't use any mitigation strategies at all. Yes, you can still be contagious when you're vaccinated, but you're less likely to spread disease. That's mitigation.

Reducing the spread of a contagious disease with a significant disability and death factor is important. Saying that we shouldn't bother trying to mitigate the situation because COVID cannot be fully prevented with vaccines alone is very silly.

All the "you're hysterical shut the fuck up just chill" junk you post is just attention-seeking noise.

by Anonymousreply 102January 14, 2022 12:44 PM

R102, I wish you had been arguing the case before the Supreme Court yesterday. Well said.

by Anonymousreply 103January 14, 2022 1:11 PM

[quote] like this was, bypassing the necessary, required protocols is a fool.

Based on merely your comma usage, we see who the fool is.

by Anonymousreply 104January 14, 2022 1:14 PM

I never said we shouldn't use "any mitigation strategies at all." That's just silly. I said the vaccine mandate, specifically, is an ineffective mitigation strategy if the end goal is to prevent the spread. Masking and testing are more effective mitigation strategies for [italic]that specific end goal.[/italic] Do keep in mind that Omicron has gotten around the most in vaccinated travelers who weren't being tested because "they were vaccinated and didn't have to be." That is literally how we got in this situation; assuming being vaccinated means "not infected" by default.

I'm moreso arguing that, as with other respiratory viruses, we can only do so much within reason to prevent the spread. It's never going to stop spreading, though. This virus is hopping back and forth between human and animal reservoirs. It's going to spread regardless. So, a more attainable end goal is to greatly reduce hospitalizations and death. The vaccines are better at doing that than preventing the spread, by comparison.

Thus, the focus needs to shift, to hospitalization and death prevention/reduction for the vulnerable, and the way to do that is to encourage those in high-risk categories to protect themselves via vaccination just like we do with the seasonal flu and the flu shot. If they choose not to, oh well. Forcing healthy and/or immune people to get vaccinated makes no sense for this specific virus especially when it's becoming milder.

by Anonymousreply 105January 14, 2022 1:21 PM

This, people, is what a nuanced, mature, intelligent discussion about this entire situation looks like:

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by Anonymousreply 106January 14, 2022 3:28 PM

The vaccine has never and likely will never provide immunity like mumps, measles, etc. The definition of a vaccine was literally changed back in September from "providing immunity" to "providing protection" to further Orwellinize the response.

It's really just a prophylactic, not a true vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 107January 14, 2022 6:49 PM

The better vaccine will emerge over time. For now we have this and I'm thrilled and grateful for it. And it's FREE.

by Anonymousreply 108January 14, 2022 6:52 PM

Employers can still require a vaccine or test.

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by Anonymousreply 109January 14, 2022 7:17 PM

As can State governments and theoretically Congress. The ruling is specific to OSHA regulations.

by Anonymousreply 110January 14, 2022 7:22 PM

[quote]The vaccine has never and likely will never provide immunity like mumps, measles, etc.

It's the same with the flu shot. Sterilizing immunity is difficult to achieve via vaccination for most respiratory illnesses due to how they are transmitted (nasal mucosal) combined with how fast they mutate.

Ideally, a more effective respiratory illness vaccine would be one that can be administered as a nasal spray. On the bright side, they've found evidence that T-cell immunity from other coronavirus strains (i.e. common cold strains) have cross-reactivity with SAR-CoV-2 epitopes which stimulates an antibody response. There are regions within the "gooey center" of the virus that are highly conserved across coronavirus strains.

I understand people are freaking out and frankly, I blame the sensationalist media for contributing to 95% of the fear in people (which is why I stopped watching the news), but if you understand the science of how viruses work, you will understand why being vaccinated and/or having a prior infection can drive variants that are more mild due to good ole natural selection.

Like all living organisms, a virus has one goal; to survive. It does so by reproducing. It needs hosts to reproduce. If the hosts keep dying en masse and too quickly before the virus has had enough time to spread between hosts, the virus will bring itself to extinction. It doesn't want to do that. So, it evolves to become less lethal so that it has a conducive environment to continue producing itself. That's what we're seeing with Omicron; super contagious, but also super mild.

by Anonymousreply 111January 14, 2022 11:17 PM

[quote] the virus will bring itself to extinction. It doesn't want to do that.

How does a virus know “don’t do such-and-such or it’ll kill my host”?

by Anonymousreply 112January 14, 2022 11:50 PM

Based on past activity of viruses they mutated into different strains and have a variety of affects on humans and other animals. Some of the more virulent contagious diseases killed tens of millions. The Black Plague in the 14th Century killed up to 200 million, and that was bacterial, not viral. A previous Bubonic plague of the 6th Century killed as much as 100 million. The Spanish Influenza virus of 1918-1919 killed up to 100 million. The concern about the COVID-19 virus is that without enough vaccinated people globally a new strain could emerge in which tens or hundreds of millions could die. We have advanced scientifically enough to mitigate the spread by simple distancing, quarantining, wearing proper masks and vaccinating. Theoretically the virus may have seen it's most virulent with the Delta strain, but it is possible another significant strain may emerge that is even more deadly. That is why following common sense guidelines is important t, to less to change of more strains emerging. Eventually the COVID strains should wane and it will eventually be a manageable virus. The goal is to minimize the amount of people exposed, so that there are less who get serious ill and die.

by Anonymousreply 113January 15, 2022 12:07 AM

[quote] the virus may have seen it's most virulent with the Delta strain,

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 114January 15, 2022 12:31 AM

R114 Thanks grammar police. It's didn't look correct to me either, but I posted it anyway.

by Anonymousreply 115January 15, 2022 2:26 AM

The easiest way to remember is the only time you ever use it’s is to say “it is/was.”

It’s is never possessive.

by Anonymousreply 116January 15, 2022 12:52 PM

[quote]That is why following common sense guidelines is important

Unfortunately, we live in a world in which one-third of the population doesn't just lack common sense, it's actively anti common sense.

by Anonymousreply 117January 15, 2022 1:26 PM

You're confusing common sense with conventional wisdom R117. They aren't the same thing. Conventional wisdom is almost never correct, usually something that isn't obvious without hindsight.

by Anonymousreply 118January 15, 2022 4:38 PM

So they legalized murder for cancer & AIDS patients?

Stay pro life right wingers!

by Anonymousreply 119January 15, 2022 7:05 PM

[quote] Supreme Court halts COVID-19 vaccine rule for US businesses

Who needs rules

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by Anonymousreply 120January 15, 2022 8:29 PM

It's both funny and sad that anyone who questions forced/mandated vaccinations is automatically branded as a Trumper or a Republican. Many DEMOCRATS are not necessarily antivaxers, but are against the way the covid vaccine 'rollout' was handled, and yes, forced on the public before studies were completed, by INDEPENDENT researchers.

The other thing is the way the media and online platforms have blocked talk of any other medicines, or any disagreements about mandated rollouts, etc.. They've NEVER done this before.

And ask yourself why is Pfizer insisting they need SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS to comply with a Freedom of Information request?

Also, please just keep in mind that there are countries that didn't have access to 'the vaccine' until very recently (Nigeria is a great example), and they have the lowest rates of death from Covid, because they used other meds to lower viral counts, and recover.

Finally, why does this bother us? Because this is SUPPRESSING FREE SPEECH in the EXTREME. And in doing so, it's turning a LOT of people off -- BOTH Dems and Refugs.

And it's making Biden look like a puppet. Which means WE'LL LOSE A LOT OF SEATS IN 2022 and lose the presidency in 2024.

by Anonymousreply 121January 16, 2022 2:41 AM

Here's the stats from Nigeria. Only 4.4% vaccinated, yet only 3,092 deaths out of a population of 206,000,000.

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by Anonymousreply 122January 16, 2022 2:46 AM

[quote]Also, please just keep in mind that there are countries that didn't have access to 'the vaccine' until very recently (Nigeria is a great example), and they have the lowest rates of death from Covid, because they used other meds to lower viral counts, and recover.

Nigeria, of course, is a terrible example, nice the country doesn’t have the capability to effectively track deaths.

NYT, Oct. 2021: In 2017, only 10 percent of deaths were registered in Nigeria, by far Africa’s biggest country by population — down from 13.5 percent a decade before. In other African countries, like Niger, the percentage is even lower.

Families often don’t know they are expected to report deaths, or even if they do, there is little incentive to do so. Many families bury loved ones in their yard at home, where they don’t need burial permits, let alone death certificates.

by Anonymousreply 123January 16, 2022 2:56 AM

Didn't they used to tell us we'd have herd immunity when vaccinations got to about 60%. After over half a billion US inoculations....

COVID CASES USA

924,343 JAN 14 2022

239,522 JAN 14 2021

DEATHS

2,954 JAN 14 2022

3,980 JAN 14 2021

by Anonymousreply 124January 16, 2022 3:04 AM

[quote]And ask yourself why is Pfizer insisting they need SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS to comply with a Freedom of Information request?

Who cares if they’re “insisting,” since they’re not getting it.

[quote]PFIZER's full vaccine "safety data" will be released in just months, rather than the 75 years they would have taken, after a US judge's ruling.

by Anonymousreply 125January 16, 2022 3:08 AM

[quote]The other thing is the way the media and online platforms have blocked talk of any other medicines, or any disagreements about mandated rollouts, etc.

Don’t know how you missed this, but Fox News and the right-wing radiosophere, which together reach multiple times the audience CNN, MSNBC and left-wing radio does, never shut up about other types of medicine and mandates.

by Anonymousreply 126January 16, 2022 3:12 AM

Of course he didn't miss it, since he's spouting their party line. I think it's so interesting that the hosts on FOX spend hours of time every night decrying that their points of view are censored.....AS they are promoting their points of view for hours every day to millions of viewers - none of whom ever seem to notice the logical disconnect.

by Anonymousreply 127January 16, 2022 3:24 AM

[quote] I think it's so interesting that the hosts on FOX spend hours of time every night decrying that their points of view are censored.....AS they are promoting their points of view for hours every day to millions of viewers

And Fox complains that the "mainstream media" is ignoring them and ignoring conservative/Republican points of view, without acknowledging that Fox IS the mainstream media -- (sadly) the #1-rated cable news network, on all the major cable systems. And without acknowledging that talk radio has always been dominated by right-wingers. Another favorite tactic of Fox News folks and their ilk is to post screeds on social media about how they're being censored on social media.

by Anonymousreply 128January 16, 2022 3:39 AM

[quote]Another favorite tactic of Fox News folks and their ilk is to post screeds on social media about how they're being censored on social media.

Yes, even as Facebook is dominated by right-wing voices:

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by Anonymousreply 129January 16, 2022 3:49 AM

[quote]The concern about the COVID-19 virus is that without enough vaccinated people globally a new strain could emerge in which tens or hundreds of millions could die.

You guys really need to stop using other pathogens (many from different a phylum and many that aren't even viruses) and their vaccines as "cookie cutter" examples of how things will play out with this specific virus and its vaccines. This isn't like measles, mumps, polio, or smallpox. The vaccines will not help to bring us to "COVID zero." That is an unattainable goal. The virus, however, will be forced to mutate to be less lethal thanks to the vaccines which were never designed to completely prevent infection or transmission, but severe illness and death in the inoculated. The vaccines are going to push the virus to evolve in a way that will make it less lethal.

The vaccines do not illicit an immune response to SARS-CoV-2 polymerase (RdRp) or any of the 16 non-structural proteins that form the virus's replication and transcription complex (RTC) which help facilitate viral replication. Thus, being vaccinated does very little to prevent viral replication within the airway once infected. Even in clinical trials, they found significant amount of virus in nasal swabs even though COVID-19 (the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2) was prevented.

This would also explain why Omicron is found mainly in the upper-respiratory system and how it's spreading so rapidly. The immune response within vaccinated hosts prevents disease progression to the lower-respiratory tract which is what causes severe illness, hospitalization, and death, but not in the URT. So, it's very possible, that the virus evolved to only infect the URT as a direct response to the vaccines. But, there's nothing wrong with that because that results in milder symptoms/illness and less severity of disease (see: common cold). In a way, the vaccinated may be helping to facilitate the less lethal variants. So, this means that as the virus moves through the population, more people are getting exposed (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) but less are dying. That is how herd immunity is achieved. For some reason, those in charge don't want to let the scientists tell the whole truth, here, which is that vaccinated people are going to spread this virus, but they'll be spreading milder versions of the disease as time goes on.

We need to stop focusing on "case numbers" and focus more on hospitalizations and ICU admissions. There will always be cases. That is no longer something to be afraid of with the vaccines, however. And they need to stop treating it like it is. Again, this is a coronavirus. It can infect humans and animals. It's here to stay.

by Anonymousreply 130January 16, 2022 7:51 AM

And source:

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by Anonymousreply 131January 16, 2022 7:52 AM

[quote]How does a virus know “don’t do such-and-such or it’ll kill my host”?

It's not so much that it "knows" as in it is consciously making the decision to "dial it back" so it has more opportunity to spread in living hosts. It's just a primal, evolutionary response that occurs. To quote a famous line from [italic]Jurassic Park[/italic]: "Life finds a way."

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by Anonymousreply 132January 16, 2022 8:26 AM

Thank you, r132.

I was afraid people would take my post as a joke or being insincere, but it wasn’t. I truly didn’t understand that aspect from the start of the experts saying it may mutate to a less severe form.

by Anonymousreply 133January 16, 2022 1:02 PM

[quote]The 'vaccines' don't provide immunity or prevent transmission, they won't stop you dying of Covid and they may very well kill you, destroy your health or leave you permanently disabled.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

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by Anonymousreply 134January 16, 2022 3:14 PM

The SC is there to protect the interests of corporations. The only response is striking. Make a deal with the unions first.

by Anonymousreply 135January 16, 2022 3:43 PM

An arrest warrant for murder should be sworn on all the justices who oppose mandates. Do it nowl

by Anonymousreply 136January 16, 2022 4:05 PM

In other news, the infection/fatality rate is actually way down. Unless you're over 70.

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by Anonymousreply 137January 16, 2022 8:03 PM

R128, simply not true.

Fox News (fortunately) has a fraction of the audience of ABC, NBC and CBS. Most people by far still watch "non-cable" news.

by Anonymousreply 138January 16, 2022 8:06 PM

[quote] Most people by far still watch "non-cable" news.

Even though they don't believe it

Gallup October 7, 2021 -- Americans' Trust in Media Dips to Second Lowest on Record

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by Anonymousreply 139January 16, 2022 8:26 PM

[quote] Fox News (fortunately) has a fraction of the audience of ABC, NBC and CBS.

But Fox News airs 24/7, and is often playing in the background on the TVs in bars, hotel lobbies, car dealer/auto repair shops, etc. The nightly newscasts on ABC, NBC and CBS are only half an hour.

[quote] Most people by far still watch "non-cable" news.

Most people no longer watch TV news at all. The average age of a TV news viewer is in the 60s or 70s. Most people get their news from the Internet and social media, where Fox News talking points are constantly being circulated. Take a look at R129.

by Anonymousreply 140January 16, 2022 8:37 PM

[quote] The nightly newscasts on ABC, NBC and CBS are only half an hour.

Not in New York. The news is on from 4-7 nightly in New York on three channels, CBS, NBC, and ABC.

by Anonymousreply 141January 16, 2022 8:41 PM

R139, that's not made any better when they they spend half their airtime pushing forced vaccinations.

by Anonymousreply 142January 16, 2022 8:45 PM

[quote]The virus, however, will be forced to mutate to be less lethal thanks to the vaccines

"Experts don’t know what the next variants will look like or how they might shape the pandemic, but they say there’s no guarantee the sequels of omicron will cause milder illness or that existing vaccines will work against them.

“People have wondered whether the virus will evolve to mildness. But there’s no particular reason for it to do so,” said Dr. Stuart Campbell Ray, an infectious disease expert at Johns Hopkins University. “I don’t think we can be confident that the virus will become less lethal over time.”

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by Anonymousreply 143January 16, 2022 9:03 PM

They've handled this all WRONG. They should have put this on the states

Biden Administration Threatens To Revoke Arizona $170 MILLION in Stimulus Funds Used For Anti-Mask Mandate Programs At Schools. What in the FUCK is he giving this much money to these states for? We have a vaccine. After June, he shouldn't have been giving these states all this money. That is just PISSING MONEY AWAY. Shame on him.

Let these republican governors pay for all of this with their state's own money. You can damn well bet these governors would have mandated the vaccine if they had to pay hundreds of millions out of state taxpayer funds

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by Anonymousreply 144January 16, 2022 9:38 PM

R112, I'm not sure about that other response. We're talking about natural selection. Think of it as: genetic mutations over time are natural and par for the course. The virus strains that kill their hosts then stop reproducing... because they're dead, too. The strains that are less lethal live on to propagate and spread to other hosts. The virus continues to mutate.

It's not a matter of a virus "wanting" to do anything. I know that's just an expression, but it can be very misleading.

by Anonymousreply 145January 16, 2022 10:10 PM

And R143 is right, too. There may well be future mutations that increase the virus's lethality. And those will kill many hosts, too, and subsequently die out. The process of evolution does not have a purpose, but it does have a consistent result: the survival of the fittest.

by Anonymousreply 146January 16, 2022 10:15 PM

WHET the COVID Poll Troll?

by Anonymousreply 147January 16, 2022 10:27 PM

The false equivalence of vaccinated and non-vaccinated is the ridiculous “both sides type argument” that has pushed this pandemic into years.

The vaccinated do not spread it at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

The vaccinated are not getting sick and clogging up the entire hospital system.

The vaccinated are not giving the virus the ability to pass, spread, and mutate so we will continue to live in wave a free wave of variant. As long as this 37ish percent of people are the reason the pandemic continues.

Googling shit in your phone isn’t research, it’s confirmation bias. Listen to science and epidemiologists.

by Anonymousreply 148January 23, 2022 5:52 AM

[quote]The vaccinated are not giving the virus the ability to pass, spread, and mutate so we will continue to live in wave a free wave of variant.

This isn't correct. Sorry.

Also, mutating isn't always a bad thing. For example, the virus mutating to be less lethal is certainly a plus, and something that is likely to be driven specifically by the vaccinated. As the strains that kill their hosts die with their hosts, the strains that don't kill their host will be able to reproduce and will produce less lethal variants. This is called natural selection.

by Anonymousreply 149January 23, 2022 6:57 AM

Here ya go r148:

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by Anonymousreply 150January 23, 2022 6:58 AM

r149 This speculative opinion is from February 2021, when this vaccine was brand new, and is essentially worthless now. There is much more recent and relevant research available.

by Anonymousreply 151January 23, 2022 10:25 AM

[quote]This speculative opinion is from February 2021, [bold]when this vaccine was brand new, and is essentially worthless now.[/bold]

Ok. So, in lieu of that are you rebutting me or this person?

[quote]The vaccinated are not giving the virus the ability to pass, spread, and mutate so we will continue to live in wave a free wave of variant.

In what way, exactly, is the vaccine "essentially worthless?" On average, it's keeping the inoculated from severe illness and death.

by Anonymousreply 152January 23, 2022 12:38 PM

Oh. You know what, never mind. I'm pretty sure you mean the [bold]article[/bold] is essentially worthless, now that I re-read that sentence. I'm sleepy.

But still, that article projects that the vaccines will "slowly, over a long period of time," push more mutations. We're not exactly off track from that projection.

by Anonymousreply 153January 23, 2022 12:40 PM

No, but the point of view I was objecting to was that it was specifically vaccines that would push new variants.

by Anonymousreply 154January 24, 2022 1:54 AM
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