And Just Like That … part 6 discussion

Part 5

Re-watching SATC after many years. I didn't realize Aiden (sp?) was so boring. Say what you will about CN, Carrie had more chemistry with Big. I do remember how much I detested the story near the end of the series with the Russian. I think I will skip over that when I get there.

God, are we already at seven? It doesn't even seem like anything's really happened.

[quote] I didn't realize Aiden (sp?) was so boring.

Boring at best. I thought he was really toxic. Granted, she treated him terribly, but he was so inflexible and demanding. Those two shouldn't have gotten past the first date. Berger was another freak. Big may have been an asshole but at least he was normal when he wasn't. She kept falling for men who treated her terribly. I know you need tension for drama, obviously, but I wish they'd explored why. More than just unlucky, the character chose terrible men for the most part.

Please R4, Carrie was the toxic one not Aidan. Inflexible and demanding? He wanted her to stop smoking for health reasons. He proposed and was understanding when she wouldn’t set a date and strung him along. She told him to not to speak to her for an hour after getting home and he agreed. He took her back after she cheated on him and he was inflexible? She deserved the asshole that was Big. I also disagree about their chemistry.

It's ok to be wrong, R5.

Aiden had more chemistry with Steve.

All the problems these three idiots have faced in the last 6 episodes are not real, hard, relatable problems. Deciding whether to use your tens of millions of dollars to live in downtown Manhattan? Dealing with an annoying but relatively mild little butch lez daughter? Getting fingered by a deliberately offensive big butch lez woman?

Fucking WOE IS ME! These stories are dull as shit.

Carrie is still looking for the source of the beep.

Eat Che ass.

It's Samantha's vibrator, come for revenge. It's like Jason Voorhees.

The Russian storyline is actually better than I remember, or at least not as annoying. Maybe not the storyline, but the Russian himself. I always enjoyed him because even though he was an asshole he always stuck it to Carrie and told her things point blank when she wanted a soft landing. It was the Berger arc that really made me cringe rewatching the original series. I hated him and I hated Carrie when she was with him.

Carrie: "It's fabulous and you just said that to hurt my feelings."

Berger: "Yeah, well, that's how you made me feel--"

Carrie: "FABULOUSSSSS"

I hate them all! Worst reboot ever, especially what they did to Miranda. Miranda is such a moron in this series. I do think getting fingered in the lez world is considered sex although the coup de grace of lesbian sex was fisting. Anyhow, when Samantha was with Maria she said Maria had TEN dicks when referring to her fingers, which savvy OG Miranda countered that technically Maria had 3.5 dicks when Carrie said "a finger is NOT a dick". And why is so over the moon getting fingered by Che as if that smelly old bull dyke's fingers are better than cock. The writing is lazy and terrible, just like Steve's cock!!!!

Wasn't Miranda a partner in her big corporate law firm? If so, she was making bank. And, if she was a partner, and she's done as an active lawyer, she should have quite a nice chunk of change.

I always liked Big though it seemed improbable that he would have stuck with a mess like Carrie for that long but since she's so irresistable, then why not?

Berger was gross, the Russian seemed even more unlikely than Big to be into Carrie and Aiden was an asshole.

Carrie and Aiden in real life would have had ONE date and that's it.

Two if the sex was good.

It really was an awful hat, lol. But Berger was just so fucking insecure. It actually was a well-written character - consistent with how insecurity, in this case het male insecurity, just infuses everything and makes a relationship toxic. On the flip side, Carrie and even her friends needlessly went in on Berger several times. Maybe carnations are "filler flowers" but the whole "eew, you're a fucking troglodyte for evening mentioning carnations" was a bit much.

Yes, Miranda made partner at 35 or 36 is a major law firm, which might be owed to her pretending to be a lesbian at the company soft ball game, trying to infiltrate her boss's wife's social circle who was looking at add a lesbian couple! By the time of the movies, SATC2, when Miranda's lobotomy had already started to commence, she realized she had not work/life blanace at her big firm and wasn't respected, so we see her join a smaller, more family friendly law firm by the end of the movie. This is why nothing Miranda does now makes any sense of is true to her origin character.

" the Russian seemed even more unlikely than Big to be into Carrie."

I can see him being into her, but he always struck me as someone who would dote on a lover and then become disengaged and lose interest. Carrie was there for his amusement and when he was no longer amused he didn't seem remorseful or sorry at all that he wasn't.

The whole thing should have died in 2003/4.

Carrie was 15 years younger than the Russian, so that was likely the main draw. But despite all those years of living in NYC, she was still gauche, uncultured and uneducated. She had no connections that would be valuable to him, although Charlotte likely would have, in the art world. Temperamentally they weren't suited, he wasn't even capable of empathising over her close friend's cancer diagnosis. I suppose the appeal for her was that he seemed very, very rich.

On the previous thread someone griped that Pat Field's costume choices for the original SATC were bad and I have to disagree. Most of the time, the girls were dressed appropriately for what they were doing with Field only going over the top with them if she had them at something glamorous and really only Carrie got the crazier outfits now and then because it was established that Carrie was into fashion.

The costume person for AJLT, (a former assistant for Fields) is horrible. EVERYONE is dressed over the top for every occassion!

I think they're thinking it's what the hardcore fans want (the deranged fraus who adored the original show) but it's ghastly to the point of being parody.

"Temperamentally they weren't suited, he wasn't even capable of empathising over her close friend's cancer diagnosis."

I rewatched that mini-arc and while he wasn't Hallmark card-level empathetic, I thought he was fine. It was Carrie's completely meltdown like he personally said he hoped Samantha would die that I found surprising upon rewatch.

I always thought the sex in the old show was gross. I much prefer this new show, except that Che, who makes my skin crawl.

"I know you need tension for drama, obviously, but I wish they'd explored why. More than just unlucky, the character chose terrible men for the most part."

It came up intermittently. Dr. G (Carrie and John Bon Jovi's therapist) sort of got into it. The whole La Douleur Exquise episode touched on it, and Carrie intermittently said things like "I can't believe this is happening again" when she found herself back in painful situation. That's actually highly relatable - many people choose terrible mates - consistently. I have my theories as to why some people do it.

Carrie likes to play games.

Despite his flaws - controllingness, rigidity - and boringness, Aiden was the sanest of Carrie's boyfriends. He was mature, loyal, responsible, protective and dependable, and he loved Carrie wholeheartedly. He was husband material, as was Harry.

Big and Steve were not.

I agree in part about Aiden, but not completely. It's SO cliche, but I don't really think he loved the true Carrie. He always seemed like he loved an idealized version of Carrie - and I'm not talking about "surface" things like her smoking and his preference that she didn't.

Aidan loved Pete more than Carrie. He just wanted to get Maui-ed and Carrie had a nice body and perky tits in her 30's. I don't know why they keep dragging this old chestnut out. Like Carried would run into Aidan in Abu Dhabi in SATC2 and now this. Petrovski might be fun to see but isn't he 80 now. In season 6 Carrie was 38 and I thought Petrovski was supposed to be 60.

Kirsten has managed to gain pounds and lose acting ability at the same time. And what is with Cynthia's awful wig? Can't they do something better?

Petrovsky was in his mid 50s. They do the "Studio 54 math" or something and conclude he's in his mid 50s.

Regarding the whole physical therapy/insurance episode, even if you're as rich as Carrie, wouldn't you still want to have insurance as it could potentially save money in the long-run? I mean, how much does it cost to insure yourself with premium coverage as an individual? $15,000 a year?

I thought Samantha said he was a decade older than her. Samantha was 55 in the first SATC film so she was about 50 in the final episode of series 6.

I don't know if it makes sense, but this was the exchange where Carrie tells Samantha she met Petrovsky:

Hey. Have you ever heard of that artist Alexander Petrovsky?

Who?

Alexander Petrovsky ? Oh my god. He was the number one hot guy at Studio 54. Dated every top super model in the 70s. oh my nipple's getting hard just thinking about him. Why?

I met him yesterday.

No. how did he look. Is he still gorgeous?

[We need more time.]

Where did you meet? What's he like?

We met at a gallery and he was odd.

How old is he now? Let me see. When I was 22. He was about 30. Studio 54 was '79.so that would make him, what? 53.

And that would make you..

I'm forty fucking five. I have nothing to hide.

And then later Carrie refers to Petrovsky as being in his "lovah perfect early 50s" or something.

So the character is younger than I thought.

But didn't Enid say Carrie was fishing in her pond with Petrovski???? She had to be pushing 60. Also, I thought Samantha said, "I"m fifty fucking five years old".

I have no idea what's accurate, just what they said. They easily could have had conflicting dialogue.

I think Enid just generally saw herself and Petrovsky as older and more mature, more advanced in their careers vs. Carrie and people of her age. That's all. Thus, she sees him as being in her "pool."

Enid and Petrovsky would have been perfect together. They were the same age, had similar life experiences, probably knew many of the same people, had the same concerns and interests. But just about every male celebrity I can think of has a new partner or wife at least 20 years younger than him.

And poor Enid was stuck with Wallace Shawn.

Not sure how old Enid was supposed to be. While Candace Bergen and the character certainly looked in her 60s, the character could have been younger - not that they ever made a point of it other than that she was generally post-menopause. I thought Petrovsky was younger than the real-life Baryshnikov, but he wasn't by much. Baryshnikov would have been 55-56 during his SATC appearance.

I love how Ashlie Atkinson is playing the shrink, given she was the truly terrifying Janice in Mr Robot.

Candice Bergen is less than 2 years older than Mikhail Baryshnikov.

Samantha was 45 in s6. She turned 50 in the first movie. In the second movie she said to the snotty sales assistant (while buying the Miley dress) "I'm fifty fucking two and will rock this dress.."

Side note R41 - Just to show what a terrible friend Carrie was, instead of defending her BFF against that agist attack when Samantha was buying her dress, Carrie made embarrassed, apologetic gestures to the snotty sales girl and told Samantha to tone it down.

[quote] Boring at best. I thought he was really toxic. Granted, she treated him terribly, but he was so inflexible and demanding.

Aiden was a glimpse into life with the Perfect Sensitive New Age All American Guy. Handsome, handy, artistic, wealthy. And they were a very bad fit.

[quote] Berger was another freak.

He arrived with the introduction of the phrase “zsa zsa zsu”. Fuck Berger.

Charlotte’s entire face rushes to the front whenever she smiles now.

Hey, it’s Che Diaz.

Couldn’t they have found an actually sexually appealing non-binary person to play Che?

Sara Rodriguez’s overly plucked eyebrows make me gag

I don't know if it had been discussed already but I realized watching last week's episode that the whole Samantha replacement wasn't gonna be one woman in their little clique. Apparently each woman found her own "Samantha", or who Samantha used to be to her, in her new friendship.

It's kind of funny that the new show revolves the three gals all trying to find new Samanthas.

Kim Cattrall has the last laugh.

[quote]Most of the time, the girls were dressed appropriately for what they were doing with Field only going over the top with them if she had them at something glamorous

Although there was that time Carrie turned up to a picnic in a dirndl. And Miranda wore a hoodie with the hood up and a hat on top of that.

I recently watched the “Splat!” episode of SATC. Candice Bergen was around 55 when she appeared in that episode and she looks fabulous. Much better than these women who are playing 55 on this version.

R45 SJP looks Ike a slightly older Carrie in the photo. She looks the best SJP has looked in years, not the hag she can look like.

Seema and Samantha would have worked really well together in the original series.

Not sure about that, R51. Sam met a woman she had everything in common with - Claire Anne - and she fled. Both Seema and Samantha are competitive, hardened and at heart insecure.

R48: "Although there was that time Carrie turned up to a picnic in a dirndl. And Miranda wore a hoodie with the hood up and a hat on top of that."

I don't know why I keep laughing at this comment, but I do.

The clothes...Charlotte was always dressed well, Sam, most of the time except for a few times where she looked like a tranny hooker, Miranda's clothes were mostly hideous after the first two episodes. Carrie had some spectacular outfits, eg, the dress where she fell into the lake, the newspaper dress she wore when she ambushed Natasha and of course the amazing dress she had on when the Russian accidentally hit her. But there were some real horrors. I seem to recall her wearing dungaree overalls, all the bra straps as outerwear get ups, etc etc etc ad infitum.

I get that R52, but I feel Claire Ann (think that was her name) was waaay over the top. Seema seems a little more grounded.

Claire Ann would give the blow job under the restaurant table.

Samantha, by contrast, would take the guy to the bathroom stall, close the door, and fellate privately.

And that's the difference.

Che is going to haunt Sara Ramirez for the rest of her goddamned life. I hope she got a decent paycheck for this bullshit role.

R57 are you kidding? There are a lot more prospects for her/him/they now. Before that she was just that doctor from Grey...

As soon as someone convinces MPK to step away from AJLT, it will magically become a better show. King thinks he's on top of today's culture, but his brain is convinced we're still in 2002.

If you watch the show by pretending the back story is that three women in 2003 got in a time machine and landed in modern day NYC, it takes on a whole new dimension. "What is this nonbinary thing you mention?" "Oh, black people live in NYC?"....

R57 Now she's just that annoying, drug pushing, predatory, home wrecking, obnoxious walking stereotype from a show that should have ended 20 odd years ago.

Sorry, above was for R58

[quote]Before that she was just that doctor from Grey...

When people liked her.

I have to admit that although I think 'And Just Like That' is far, far from being a good show - I'm still finding it entertaining to watch, even though it's mostly due to the cringe factor of them trying to add in all these woke elements and making such a monumental fuck-up of it.

I absolutely love that even though Samantha isn't even in it, she's still the star of the show. When Carrie was texting her in the latest episode and then she just didn't reply - I was howling with laughter! It's so funny to me that they are obviously so desperate to leave the door open for Kim to return but you just know she isn't going to.

It's sad that Willie Garson died and they have clearly had to draft Anthony in to essentially play his part in the scenes with Carrie.

The sex scene with Miranda was unintentionally one of the most hilarious/horrifying things I've seen in ages.

^ Everything he said. I don't hate watch it. I ambivalent watch it.

Anthony is almost as revolting as Che.

[quote]It really was an awful hat, lol. But Berger was just so fucking insecure. It actually was a well-written character - consistent with how insecurity, in this case het male insecurity, just infuses everything and makes a relationship toxic.

First of all, it WAS a ridiculous hat. And her defensive "It's fabulous" made her look foolish.

Second, Carrie was insecure/toxic, too. Pointing out an error in a book that is already published is an asshole thing to do. It's so unforgivably smug.

I think they should keep Jonathan Groff as Carrie's gay buddy. That could help a bit.

Kristen Davis will forever be Brooke.

Remember that hot gay Australian who liked to party at Bungalow 8 back in the day? That was the perfect gay BFF for Carrie.

The name of the NEW Sex And The City show- AND JUST LIKE THAT sounds like a name some DL queen would come up with

Perhaps Sara, Tony winner, could come back to Broadway.

Omg how many times are you gonna “rewatch” the show? You said that on the other threads also. Your schtick is old and tired.

Poor Jonathan Groff having to convincingly say SJP and Mario Cantone are hot.

Cynthia Nixon is the one who got Groff the part.

R74 Well, he said Cantone was hot (problematic, to say the least), and that Carrie needed work.

I find Cynthia Nixon's character is at sea... both in the writing and in how she plays the role (the community theater wig). And that this is actually an actress with skills.... her Emily Dickinson in Quiet Passion was brilliant.

That cheap wig on Cynthia Nixon is inexplicable. Did they not do any playbacks?

"Remember that hot gay Australian who liked to party at Bungalow 8 back in the day? That was the perfect gay BFF for Carrie."

Played by Murray Bartlett. He actually wasn't perfect - he was too attractive and Carrie hated that he wasn't paying attention to her at the club and left in a huff. They'd encounter that a lot if they were regular friends because obviously NYC has a lot of gays and mixed spaces where he'd be noticed by men. She ran back to Aiden that night, even though she thought his staying in and eating KFC was a lame way to spend the night. At least he'd give her attention.

I think the series would have been much better if it had killed off Big, Samantha and Stanford. Samantha and Stanford were the two people in Carrie’s life who I bought as being unconditionally there for her despite her bullshit - and them bailing on her doesn’t ring true at all. I find it much more believable that Charlotte and Miranda would have drifted away or fallen out with her. It would have been much more interesting to watch a show where the three of them reconnect after ten years of estrangement, deal with the shared grief of losing Samantha and figure out how to be friends again now that they are older women.

Why is he having full blown conversations with himself? This isn’t funny or normal. It’s alarming.

Who?

[quote] Second, Carrie was insecure/toxic, too. Pointing out an error in a book that is already published is an asshole thing to do. It's so unforgivably smug.

That's kind of hilarious since most of the comments about the show are like that. Pointing out inconsistencies and flaws that can't be changed anyway. And yet, when someone like Carrie does it, it's a bitch move. Some posters should take a good look at themselves.

"Second, Carrie was insecure/toxic, too. Pointing out an error in a book that is already published is an asshole thing to do. It's so unforgivably smug."

I agree, and then especially when she doubled down with the woman in the restaurant when Berger think she's going to "win" the scrunchee debate. BUT, as the Carrie is written, while it was a stupid move, I don't think there was much intent to upset him, as blind as that belief may be. She thought she was going to be "cute" pointing it out and they'd have a good laugh and then she was preparing to go into everything she loved about the book.

Well, he’s certainly had some work done.

[quote]That's kind of hilarious since most of the comments about the show are like that. Pointing out inconsistencies and flaws that can't be changed anyway. And yet, when someone like Carrie does it, it's a bitch move. Some posters should take a good look at themselves.

Ur, we aren't friends with the people who do the show, much less dating them. We don't owe them an obligation to protect their feelings.

You sound like an idiot for not getting that.

Charlotte: It's an affair. Miranda: It was a finger.

An "A Finger" To Remember

Charlotte: It's an affair.

Miranda: It was a finger. A big, hairy finger. With knuckles like rusty steamship rivets.

Charlotte: Hot.

Charlotte must've been on drugs when she said JFK was the most handsome man and no one could've matched him. Like, bitch, there were Paul Newman, Rock Hudson and Marlon Brando to name a few...

[quote] Charlotte must've been on drugs when she said JFK was the most handsome man and no one could've matched him

It makes sense because it’s Charlotte saying that. She wants the preppy Jackie O fantasy. She was a Ralph Lauren teen model.

JFK Jr. was presented as her dream man in Season 1. Not a bit surprising.

R90, my personal opinion, JFK Jr outshined all three of them.

Not a diehard SATC fan so don't really care too much about how these women are written now or how suddenly they're besieged by POC characters. I just find myself still entertained/amused/cringed by it and that I look forward for a new episode each week, probably the only show out there right now.

[quote]Played by Murray Bartlett. He actually wasn't perfect - he was too attractive and Carrie hated that he wasn't paying attention to her at the club and left in a huff.

This is one of those moments that I think exasperate people re: "everything is always all about Carrie". Yes, the show is from her perspective, but when you see her friends time and time again encourage her with men (there's one scene in particular I remember where Samantha is standing behind Carrie and gives her a little nudge towards a guy), and she's happy to stand them up for men, as soon as one of her friends doesn't pay her the slightest bit of attention she starts going off in a huff at them about how they're not being a good friend to her. It's not a great look.

I know a woman just like this in real life.

Boy, Murray Bartlett is the Camilla Parker Bowles of guys who used to be really hot.

Still, does get to go down in history as the first guy to deliver a rimming not in porn.

Unfortunately I think most of us do R95

I think he was at his peak as Dom in Looking. He was cute in SATC, but as hot IMO.

Well r93, yes, the son, but she was referring to the father...

I think...

Hah, r99 you may be right...

Murray Barlett did nothing for me on Looking but then I saw him in Better Things, and I thought, gee, he's really good in this, and then I found out that wasn't Murray Bartlett at all, but Diedrich Bader, so I still don't like Murray Bartlett.

Speaking of Jonathan Groff Murray Bartlett and Looking, what would this reboot look like in the hands of Looking’s show-runner instead of MPK? 🙃

Good question 102. I enjoyed Looking.

I think it would be interesting if they finally gave us some background about the pre-NYC women, especially Carrie's parents or any siblings. How did they all get so fucked up, again, especially Carrie. We got a tiny bit about Miranda's family in SATC and I think once Carrie mentioned her father left when she was very young, but I want details. They could do flashbacks. Of course they would hire the most beautiful little girl to play young Carrie and everyone would be telling her how beautiful she is.

R102 which AJLT character would be the braindead idiot, aka Patrick, who at 30 is SHOCKED! SHOCKED! by concepts such as foreskin and enemas?

R104 didn't they do this on the CW? A pre SATC young adult show

r106, it was called The Carrie Diaries starring AnnaSophia Robb as Carrie. I liked it, but it was cancelled after, I believe, two seasons.

I was NOT amused R107.

Christ what a cunt.

I loved Austin Butler.

SJP was probably pissed that she wasn't asked to be a "producer" on The Carrie Diaries.

Was Carrie in a disfiguring accident between Carrie Diaries and SATC? AnnaSophia Robb is very pretty.

"Was Carrie in a disfiguring accident between Carrie Diaries and SATC? AnnaSophia Robb is very pretty."

And just like that, an ACME anvil smacked me right in the face.

[quote]And just like that, an ACME anvil smacked me right in the face.

I can help with that. A little.

What a cunt. "It takes a certain generosity of spirit."

I am grossed out by Che AND Miranda. That finger-fucking scene in Carrie’s kitchen was beyond nauseating. I’m glad Carrie how did Miranda’s ass to her. Fucking rude and gross.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

******. handed Miranda’s ass to her….

Murray Bartlett is still hella hot.

I do hope they run with the storyline of Che 'ghosting' Miranda, but I don't know if Cynthia Nixon's ego could take it. Poor Steve.

R114 SJP and her passive aggressive BS.

I forget the show's history. Is there a reason Carrie can't go back to working at Vogue? That would at least give context to her fashion clothes.

We don't have enough back story. What has Carrie been doing the last 15 years besides being Mrs. Big? All we know is that she has never had plastic surgery - as if!

Che really is getting it from all angles.

Did the writers really think we would look at Che and think "woah! They're so cool AND sexy!"?

Murray Bartlett looks like a completely different person in the All That Glitters episode. And don’t miss an Andy Cohen cameo in the same episode!

I’m enjoying the series but let’s go back to episode 1 and the explanation of Samantha’s departure. I’ve been thinking about this. So Samantha had a thriving PR business for as far as we know at least 25 years. With offices in both New York and LA. And international clients. So because Carrie who isn’t writing much at the moment which is totally normal (my husband is a writer. And a published author. It could be 5 years before a book comes out) She shuts down her entire business and moves to another country? Absurd. Makes zero sense.

It's totally rational in a world where Miranda - a highly experienced lawyer who was both a litigator and a corporate attorney - needs to go back to law school to understand how to apply her existing legal schools to another variant of law, i.e., human rights.

The plot needs it to happen R125 .

[quote]Did the writers really think we would look at Che and think "woah! They're so cool AND sexy!"?

These writers? You bet!

Plus, now they can bitch at each other about how people just don't get it.

R125 maybe she didn't completely shut down her business, maybe she changed headquarters because a more profitable opportunity appeared in London or she found a long British cock. You know she's dick hungry...

This in addition to being upset with Carrie

Didn’t they add young women of color to the writing staff? THIS is what they come up with?

They could have said Sam moved to the UK because she ran out of men to fuck in the USA.

SJP is right: The Carrie Diaries is odd. Carrie Bradshaw as a WASP Connecticut Princess was bad.

Since when is fingering “having sex”? In the lesbian world, is anything beyond kissing “having sex”? I wouldn’t know.

Well that's what I wondered.

I think they should have a cameo in the last episode of Samantha returning. She must be played by a drag queen, or better, Joanna Lumley in her Patsy look.

Or she should come back with her new best friend, Patsy, who she met in London.

Che is really hot - I can see it. I had a sex dream about them too.

R130 Yes, one of them is Samantha Irby, who said that her friends as 'idiot pigs' and that women's bodies in their 40's/50's are 'decaying' on the AJLT Writer's Room podcast.

*friends are.

Samantha Irby appears to have a lot of Che going on.

R138 Apparently Samantha Irby also has a blog called "Bitches gotta eat" and is good friends with Roxanne Gay so..... we're getting quality writing here folks.

Murray Bartlett's British descendent skin couldn't stay young forever....

And now.....

Jesus, that is one fucking ugly woman.

Bartlett looks good now. I've seen younger looking 50 year olds, but he wears his years well.

It's like Irby is purposefully trying to take an awkward photo so she can write an essay on how she has autism, or some other mental malady, and make it a teachable, lecturing, moralizing moment.

[quote]Jesus, that is one fucking ugly woman.

Don't say that about Bartlett.

Yes 146 there's a lot of...intensity in that face.

I'm not sure those are the right frames for them.

Carrie Bradshaw’s ‘Diwali’ outfit fails to rewrite racist ‘Sex and the City’ past, fans say

In regards to the Diwali outfit, "that's cultural appreciation, no cultural appropriation."

[quote]SJP is right: The Carrie Diaries is odd. Carrie Bradshaw as a WASP Connecticut Princess was bad.

That's actually Candace Bushnell's backgroung.

Bartlett totally has the hot Professor Daddy vibe.

Would bang.

CHE: "I'm non-binary."

CARRIE: "I'm non-buying it."

Don't the writers realise making Che such an obnoxious, mean creep is actually worse than having no non-binary characters?

It would be interesting story telling if she does fuck Miranda... give her the finger and then give her the bird.

All they had to do was write her as a lesbian or bisexual, comfortable with herself and unapologetic about it.

They decided to go with cartoonish bitch on heat instead.

Miranda, Charlotte and Samantha all had episode arcs in the original run of the series where they seriously contemplated whether they could be in a same sex relationship.

Again, if the series had the ovaries to go there, it would be much more interesting to watch Carrie to be the one exploring late-in-life queerness. Especially, since cheesy middle-aged fuckboi (fucknonbinary?) Che is waaaaayyyy more her type than anyone else’s. Che’s near constant toking even reminds me of Carrie and her Marlboros!

"I won't even take off my bra, do you think I'm going to get pegged by an enormous bull dyke?"

Yes

THE CARRIE DIARIES can't be considered canon, as the backstory for characters is entirely different, if I remember correctly.

It was suggested in SATC that Carrie, like Parker, was from a working-class background in Ohio, with a single mother and a father who ditched the family. That's a far more suitable background for a striver like Carrie, obsessed with fashion and Manhttan's bourgeoisie, yet a perpetual outsider looking in and writing about it, than having been the spoiled Connecticut princess depicted in TCD.

Young Carrie would have been closer to Parker's gangly, awkward SQUARE PEGS character than Robb's postcard-perfect Carrie.

Didn't TCD also have Carrie and Samantha as childhood friends? SATC made it crystal-clear that the quartet met in their twenties in NYC.

How could Carrie and Samantha have been childhood friends when Samantha was a decade older than her?

I’ve been watching the original series. Anyone remember the big, white floral arrangement Charlotte sent to Miranda’s mother’s funeral?

I couldn’t help but wonder…was Samantha’s floral arrangement at Big’s funeral meant to be a call-back to Charlotte’s arrangement?

Charlotte was in hyper-housewife at that stage as she just "retired" (AKA bagged a rich husband). She was irritated they got her order wrong and make something that screamed: "Let's disco", instead of the tasteful arrangement she envisioned.

Samantha's floral tribute fitted the theme, although a tad presumptuous to send the main bouquet to lay on the coffin perhaps?

Yeah, Samantha's flowers were running a red light. The casket spray is always from family.

Carrie never mentioned her mother iirc. It was very odd.

Not really. The show purposely had very little family background - though we get snippets of Charlotte's and Miranda's family - even meeting Charlotte's brother and Miranda's sister. But, overall, there was hardly anything. Samantha only mentions her family recipe for flu treatment and working at Dairy Queen when she was younger. It worked in context. I was never clamoring to know more about their families.

The Carrie Diaries was cute. Samantha was brought in in Season 2, an older cousin of Carrie's HS frenemy.

Making the characters childhood friends totally negates the “friends are your chosen family” message.

Friends you have in childhood are friends by proximity and often forced upon you by circumstance.

The friends you make as adults are presumably people you actually have something in common with.

in the Diaries-verse, they met when Carrie was leaving high school and met in New York. Not childhood friends.

Samantha was added to the show in an attempt to save it. Even then they knew they needed Samantha. Suck it, SJP and your "generous spirit"

In the Carrie Diaries, Samantha was basically homeless and starts her career as an event manager. It was more of a feel-good family drama show and had nothing in common with the original Sex & The City show.

Before this show I never considered hand stuff sex, but I suppose if it gets you off it counts.

I wish they would make Carrie put away her puffy skirts and do more sophisticated fits like the one she wore in doctor’s office.

I wish they would have included Stanford’s death in the show. That way Carrie would realize she can’t monopolize grief. Right now, it’s weird how “over it” Anthony is.

R172 I mean, would you be upset if Stanford divorced you? I wouldn't.

Two deaths so early in the season? You just know the haters would've called it a Debbie Downer show. Imagine if they had killed off Samantha. That would've made three deaths pretty much right from the start. That would've killed the show.

Wasn't there a scene some where mid-run of the series where Carrie is in her apartment and we see her looking at a picture of her when she's younger with a woman I assume is her mother? Or maybe it was her father?

Someone like Charlotte would have stayed close to her family and the friends she grew up with all her life. People like her do not need to reinvent themselves. Her own family would have been similar to Trey's.

And for that matter, who walked Charlotte down the aisle for her wedding to Trey?

I would rather watch a show about Anthony and the bread delivery business.

R178 I'm sure there is some reality TV show that suits your elevated tastes.

I like that the bread guys are thicc and beefy, and not crystal meth addicted, rail thin models. Surely, someone in NYC will try to make this a real business now.

I think the days of SATC being a cultural touchstone and trendsetter are way past.

Yet, oddly, they seem to have at least some writers young enough to identify the trends and cultural touchstones. Then again if you're primarily busy being the cultural touchstone you might already have too much to do.

The only people who will identify with the show or try to copy anything are rich people. That has been through since about the 3rd season of SATC. Who else but those rich and with AJLT the filthy rich can live like any of them?

I couldn't help but wonder...does Steve still watch Scooby Doo?

And there is something else I couldn't help but wonder about...Miranda was presented as a natural redhead in SatC. Redheads do not go grey! Natural red hair colour changes to a caramel-y blonde, just as natural blonde hair changes to a creamy white.

What, R184? My father, a natural redhead, went silver-grey in his 40s.

Is he really grey, R185, or white?

From 2013: The Original Carrie basically says Sex and the City went past the finish line with the movies and became a mess and SJP should've hung it up.

Do you think there’s going to be a third Sex and the City movie?

No. Look, Sarah Jessica Parker is 47. I think with the second movie, Carrie Bradshaw couldn’t be an ingenue anymore. But I think they were stuck doing what the audience wanted. Realistically, a middle-aged woman who was married without children would be much more focused on her career and less focused on this Mr. Big: “Does he love me?” ... “Does he still not love me?” I mean, I think it was coming to the end of what they could do with the character.

It wasn’t the best idea to make them leave New York.

If it were up to me, the second movie would have been Carrie Bradshaw decides to run for mayor and Samantha helps her. It would get into some real issues of what happens when you’re part of a relationship and the woman is ambitious. What does that do to her relationship with Mr. Big? To me, that would be interesting. But they were not going to go there.

Did you suggest that to them?

No.

So she would have quit the column?

In real life, it doesn’t seem realistic to me that character would be writing that column for 15 years. It doesn’t make sense! To me. But people love the character, and I think they felt they were doing the movies for fans, and they just wanted to give fans what they wanted. Or what they thought the fans wanted.

Do you think she would have ended up with Big in real life?

No.

Why!!?

[Long silence] I don’t know. In real life, I don’t think women end up with that character, and if they do, they usually get divorced after a year.

The "Hey, it's Che Diaz" memes are hilarious. Everyone is unified in loathing this character. Surely everyone involved with the show realizes this now? If there's a season 2, please write them out.

If they can get rid of Skipper, they can have Che Diaz drop dead.

No one would mind that additional funeral.

He went silver-grey and then white, R486.

The only bad thing about unified hatred of Che is that Sarah Ramirez probably loves it because she can react to it and tell everyone how wrong it is and how they're all bigots.

R167 Samantha also mentioned she is glad she didn't end up like her mother, saddled with a drunk husband and three kids. I think it was the episode she gets the flu after moving to the meatpacking District.

R189 Maybe in season 2, they can have Che go to Japan to finger someone and never come back.

Hopefully Che's next fingering goes like this

How many episodes will be in season 1?

I'm done. I'm out. Won't waste anymore time on this drivel. Way disappointed.

I think 10 episodes.

The beeping was clearly the dishwasher. I had that exact issue in the condo I stayed in recently - after I had done a load of dishes - after 4 days.

Carrie stayed in her new condo what 48 hours? A woman who eats takeout and doesn't cook? And she had a dishwasher beeping at her??

I love Carrie in her old apartment.

They need to get back to fun, zany adventures and frivolous things..

R199 Ah, the past is a foreign country you cannot return to....

R188 what do they think a hack like MPK who has destroyed their imperative to include non-binary characters, gay, non-white etc, should get another chance? He is so ham-fisted, obvious and offensive that a second season with him at the helm seems ill-advised in less they want to stoke the online rage already flaming.

HBO will probably renew it for a second season, but perhaps not for a third IMHO. Nobody likes it, it's just people hate-watching.

There was a certain whimsy the original series had his one needs.

R191 I'm surprised it has happened yet or that someone involved with the show hasn't called it out on Twitter yet.

R201 The thing is, SATC was never about subtlety or being realistic. Each of the 4 main ladies were written as caricatures, so it seems like he's stuck to what he believes to be a winning formula.

I like most of the new characters, it's just shitty that they only exist to prop up their white friends.

Che needs to go though, she's hideous.

Che getting Covid is a good way of bringing in the pandemic into the show.

This was a strange episode.

Oh god, Miranda and Che again this week. I feel so bad for Steve, they better give him some kind of happy ending.

And Charlotte with the mainsplaining bit, what's wrong with apologising to Harry?

Terrible episode. Nothing was cohesive. It was like they tried to shoehorn about sixty different agendas into one episode.

Find a fourth to replace Samantha at the table

Get Carrie back to dating so she can be New York's sweetheart again.

Feminism, however awkward and nonsensical the example (WTF Charlotte, just apologize, you dumb cunt)

Make Steve look befuddled and horrible so that Miranda will be forgiven for sleeping with the worst person in the world. (Also, I love how Miranda basically blamed Steve for the bad sex attempt. It takes two to tango, you frigid bitch.)

Bring in several small reminders of how things used to be, from Carrie meeting with her publisher to Carrie writing in front of the window.

Oh, and in case we all forgot, Carrie's husband died and everything at all times must revolve around her.

Perfectly summed up R209

Miranda cheating is good because, you know, it's liberating. Or empowering. Or whatever.

Charlotte thinks she's Germaine Greer.

Good god, Carrie will never stop with the me me me.

This was a mess and from two of the show’s original writers! I suspect some Executive Producer interference. It must cost them a fucking fortune in post to soften SJP’s wizened countenance.

Things I have had sufficient of: Miranda begging for a fingering 🤢

Che

Charlotte/Kirsten’s shitty surgery speech impediment

All I kept thinking was- Carrie, you look like a motherfucking California Raisin when you pull your hair in a bun. Stop doing it!!

Charlotte acting like a feminist crusader with a face full of fillers. What the actual fuck.

Also, is Che the ONLY standup comedian in NYC?

TV writers and show runners hate having to cope with continuity or any subsidiary characters outside the main cast of a show....unless bringing in "Drunk Uncle Phil" for a guest spot helps them write a script. This is why most characters on TV shows are usually only children. It also explains all the fucked up continuity errors on The Golden Girls that we frequently create threads about and endlessly discuss.

SATC was never a particularly brilliant show. It was fun because it was about...having Sex in New York City! And, wearing cute outfits and going to parties and drinking cocktails.

It was the fantasy life of millions of straight women and gay men.

I'm really feeling like we're going to find out Steve has been having an affair this whole time so they can lazily, easily get Miranda out of her marriage without making her look like the villain.

Steve sounds mentally retarded every time he speaks. But he's not bad looking.

I know she thinks she looks like a ballerina but Carrie looks like Granny Clampett with that bun. But I applaud the writers for putting her in the humiliating situation of no one bidding on a date with her.

I have seen all I ever want to of Miranda/Cynthia's sexuality.

Who is that adorable black couple, but why are there here? And who is the other adorable black couple?

They should bring back the custom of wearing black armbands when someone is in mourning, so Carrie wouldn't have to keep reminding people.

Steve was annoying but had a banging body. I wonder what he looks like naked now?

I HAVE A TODDLER! I HAVE A TODDLER! Screaming gay dad was the worst. Has Harry ever been in an episode where he didn’t remind us he’s Jewish? I’m convinced Steve is in the early stages of dementia but I do love that he washed his hands before fingering his HOT ginger wife.

Screaming gay dad reminded me of Matt Lucas.

And just like that Cynthia showed us a boob.

[quote]Oh god, Miranda and Che again this week. I feel so bad for Steve, they better give him some kind of happy ending.

Jointly?

Poor Steve.

R205, I disagree, gently. In the first couple of seasons the show had a different vibe. They were four normal young women living in New York, looking for men, out on the town. At some point the show became [italic]fabulous[/italic] and got really superficial and material (and took off.) I have never read the book but I imagine part of it was they ran through Bushnell material and the other part is you can trace pretty much everything viewers tend to hate about it back to the reign of MPK.

They should have written it so Black Charlotte hated Charlotte and Charlotte's mission in life was to be liked by Black Charlotte, because when Charlotte gets fixated on something she's so stupid she's often kinda funny.

Tonight Seema was clearly taking Samantha’s seat and I loved it. She’s the most intriguing of the new characters. The professor and her hubby are not connected to the rest of the show in any way, shape or form. Jon Tenney has aged very well and I like him as a potential love interest. The puking caught me off guard but it was pretty funny. Curious to see if Aidan pops up. When the show was announced John Corbett said he was going to be in several episodes. Maybe he spoke too soon.

Episode 7:

The Good:

1. Carrie typing in the window as the seasons change -- aww. Great shot, great music.

2. Professor and hubby - cute couple; I like them. Though these new characters aren't really seemlessly integrated

3. "I have a toddler!!!" The sentiment was funny because parents are like that.

4. Carrie's windower date guy. He was cute and nice.

5. Miranda-Che sex scene. Since I don't like Che, his could be "bad", but at least Miranda is getting what she wants and they're moving the arc forward. I really hope she doesn't end up with Che. Not because I don't like Che (which I don't), but because Miranda is trying to figure things out and her settling down with the first woman she's been with would be stupid. I think Che seems to understand that - when Miranda says "I think I love you," and Che answers, "you love you with me."

The Bad

1. Charlotte and Harry's mansplaining and "I'm sorry" argument. Pointless.

2. South Park vomit.

3. The Fingering 2: Het Valley. A half-assed attempt by Miranda who cut it off just when Steve was getting into it. But then again, Steve should want to initiate things. I guess that they felt they needed to prove to us that their sex life was dead before Miranda continues her lesbian uprising.

4. Che referencing her weed (twice) even when not smoking it. We get it.

5. "I have a toddler!" The depiction of gay men as only bitch queens continues.

LOL @ lesbian uprising.

I hope HBO takes a good look at the press and ratings and writes this off as a one-season blunder. They'll probably give it one more chance for season 2 though, and offer Kim Cattrall the sun, moon, and stars to at least make a guest appearance.

But is it a lesbian uprising? If Miranda's a woman and Che defies description, something's happening but it's hard to put your finger on it.

Meanwhile across the pond, Samantha's finger was where it should be: pointing us anywhere other than this mess.

Steve should come out as a late-in-life bisexual as well.

In my mind, it's a lesbian uprising. Che personally eschews description, but doesn't DEFY description in a larger context, by other people - at least that's my take.

I don't know why. Nothing ever makes Miranda happy and if it does, she fucks it up or rejects it.

If only R228 I think the hate watching figures will guarantee another series.

^ my comment... but in fairness... and most of who are gay on this board have been through this... can your denial of your sexuality really be so strong you're in your mid fifties before you get it? I can see suppressing it. I know a couple guys did that but they knew who they were. Miranda seems taken by surprise... (best Carrie Bradshaw at the diner table voice) and I'm not talking about Peter Pointer here, ladies.

R234 referring to R233.

Great idea R230.

Steve: "You remember that black doctor, Robert something, you used to date when we got back together and then we though the broke our TV. You know, the guy who made you said no one's ever been that deep?"

Miranda: [confused] "Yeah, why?"

Steve: I ran into him a couple weeks ago and we've sort of been hanging out.

Miranda: "Hanging out, what does that mean?"

Steve: "No one's ever been that deep in my ass."

Sorry about all the typos:

"thought he" not "though the." And "made you say," not "made you said."

I don’t have to like all women to be lesbian. I only have to like one.

Realistically, Steve would have divorced neurotic, bitchy Miranda years ago and married a nice bridge-and-tunnel girl like Debbie.

In real life, Miranda would have ended up with Robert and Steve would have ended up with Debbie all those years ago. Today, Miranda and Robert would be divorced (because she's neurotic and bitchy), and Steve and Debbie would be living happily in Queens with 4 kids.

[quote]Che getting Covid and dying very quickly is a good way of bringing in the pandemic into the show.

There, fixed it for you.

I hope they do give Steve a happy ending. As written, he was a decent character who against all odds and logic actually loved that uptight, miserable neurotic.

I loved Debbie. She was the polar opposite of Miranda and perfect for Steve. Even Steve’s mom liked her.

Yes, R242 She was relaxed, down to earth, not stuck up at all. I remember Miranda making a bitchy comment about Debbie's nails and shoes both being acrylic.

You got Steve's motives with Miranda once you met his mom. She was a bitchy, neurotic redhead just like the woman he married.

I never liked Steve, which I've said several times on SATC and AJLT threads. But, even I feel bad about the character's outcome. Jesus that farmer's market scene and his deaf, bumbling self. It's just poor writing. Miranda and Steve grew apart and have a dispassionate marriage. So be it. They don't have to make Steve a deaf idiot to make it realistic why they're not into each other anymore.

I bet Steve really regrets meeting Miranda at that stupid bridge back in the day. He should've run while he had the chance.

R187-In what fantasy world is SJP 47? She's officially 57, and that's probably a lie. Fuck, I'm in my late 60s, and I look better than she does. What does she do when she's not working as an actor? Subway maintenance work?

I just watched Ep 6 and did I spy a middle-aged Carrie wearing knee socks with heels again?

I think that interview with Candace Bushnell was an old interview, back when SJP was in her 40s.

The interview with Candace Bushnell was about the movie, not AJLT.

She was, clearly, not happy with SJP pretending she had created the character of Carrie and shitting on the other show.

This Miranda story arc is just terrible. As other posters have said, they should have done the “amicably divorced, but we’re still a family raising our kid” storyline with Steve and Miranda.

That would actually be realistic. The idea that some people aren’t meant to be married and sharing a household, but can still be there for each other.

r247 Did somebody say subways?

Is any part of the Miranda storyline backlash because Steve is a fundamentally sympathetic character and Miranda, being hard to like on a good day, is off on this herney? I mean part of it is the bad writing - she has a husband, who's a legacy character and his stake in this is completely ignored. Same with Archie Andrews upstairs shagging away. I hope, if they're to pursue this, they do examine the turmoil that falls out from it. As in life, the character should be free to pursue her happiness, but this kind of a bombshell is unlikely to end in glasses raised in toast. To be thrown, maybe.

As usual with this show, some of the dialogue on this episode was really sharp and incisive (thanks to the SATC vets who wrote it, no doubt), but the sum is definitely NOT better than the parts.

What is the point of this show? Why are we on this journey? No one has made that clear, though on SATC the driving force was the search for love, and we all knew it.

The professor and her husband remain totally isolated from the main cast, except for Miranda, and their story hasn't moved a single inch forward. Why are we meant to be invested in them?

The same goes for Black Charlotte and her husband, who fill exactly the same roles here as Charlotte and Harry. What is the point of having them? What is their story? They still don't have one.

Miranda having an affair out of unhappiness over a dead marriage is actually a realistic story and I can buy it. I cannot buy her falling in love with the noxious Che because we know Miranda to be heterosexual after 6 years of SATC and two movies. Her lesbian uprising (love that upthread, btw - kudos!) is an unbelievable rewrite of the character and clearly Cynthia Nixon's decree. (And I think the poster who suggested Steve may be early-stage dementia is correct; that revelation would be a roadblock in a Che/Miranda pairing, and the writers seem to be setting it up. Steve acts like he belongs in a nursing home.)

As for Carrie? This episode is probably where the series should have started for her, having healed sufficiently too start dating again. Watching her do nothing but mope around in a daze for episode after episode has been neither fun nor entertaining.

[quote]and clearly Cynthia Nixon's decree.

There is no evidence for that but I completely agree. She's not just bad a politics. Storylines aren't a strength either.

I actually find Steve very annoying, but still think the show is failing to recognize the real story here.

Sorry, Miranda, your life isn’t about hot sex with new people anymore. I’m sorry if 55-year-old women don’t want to hear that, but it’s true.

The real dramatic possibilities lie in Miranda confronting her bad choices. Steve is a nice enough guy, but he was never Miranda’s peer.

Plenty of professional women talk themselves into settling for the supposedly nice, average guy. It’s nearly always a mistake, but as a society we’re just now figuring that out (GenX being the first generation to really conduct this experiment in large numbers.)

Why isn’t Miranda confronting the “I got screwed, worked all my life and my two idiot husband hunting friends are sitting pretty” issue? I guarantee a competitive woman like Miranda would be struggling with this.

They aren’t addressing Gen X issues because they have no Gen X writers. Just Boomers and Millennials.

^ That would be more interesting than getting finger banged by some vulgar headcase a third of your age.

Much like a man would, Miranda is using a very stupid affair to blow up her life instead of confronting 20 years of bad choices.

I can smell the cigarettes and weed breath through my screen every time I see HER.

It feels like when old people use slang from their era.

Groovy!

That's rad!

Narly!

A few other observations:

1) The fear over Carrie's book being too much of a downer and disappointing fans expecting something lighthearted seems to be a meta-comment for the show itself.

2) How much alcohol did Carrie and her date consume such that they vomited right outside the restaurant? That was beyond over the top. Not to mention, the writers robbed us of what was surely an awkward scene between them afterward.

3) I never need to see Cynthia Nixon or Sara Ramirez in another sex scene of any kind. Ever.

Having two tennis dykes, who are the top competitors of the rec league is the most realistic part of the series so far.

Speaking of the tennis, why is Charlotte playing tennis in what looks like a knee length evening gown?

I get it, none of us weighs 100 pounds at age 55. But surely they could bring the skirt up a few inches?

[quote] They'll probably give it one more chance for season 2 though, and offer Kim Cattrall the sun, moon, and stars to at least make a guest appearance.

They couldn’t even give Kim a storyline in the movies that didn’t involve humiliation: getting fat, spending hours nude covered in sushi, throwing condoms in a Middle Eastern bazaar. And in the third movie, she was meant to be sexting Brady.

And I have no doubt the hip replacement (and this WOULD be due to old age) bed wetting were dreamed up with Kim in mind.

Never gonna happen.

[quote]But is it a lesbian uprising? If Miranda's a woman and Che defies description, something's happening but it's hard to put your finger on it.

But not in it, R229.

I'd argue the precedent for the actress dictating the storyline has now been set.

[quote] The real dramatic possibilities lie in Miranda confronting her bad choices. Steve is a nice enough guy, but he was never Miranda’s peer.

No, he was out of her league. Better body, sane, stable, business owner.

Miranda was mean and bitter and self-loathing.

There were interviews about Cynthia coming back but needing certain storylines. Davis is just happy to get paid.

[quote] I'd argue the precedent for the actress dictating the storyline has now been set.

The actress who has known SJP since age 11, maybe. Not the prettier, funnier one who stole scenes from SJP in her 40s.

I mean Nixon, per the observation from R269.

[quote]And for that matter, who walked Charlotte down the aisle for her wedding to Trey?

I remember the weird blocking of that scene, where Charlotte's father steps directly into frame from a position where he would've heard every word of Charlotte and Carrie's conversations about Trey's penis, haha!

[quote]Apparently Samantha Irby ... is good friends with Roxanne Gay...

Of course she is! That makes the most sense out of anything in this strange reboot.

Which reminds me, I have no intentions of watching the new Queer as Folk, but I think I'll have to at least see the episode written by Roxane - I bet it will be terrible. The "Tragically Hip" episode certainly was.

R251 that's BORING. Che is apparently a polarizing character and is fostering reaction by the public. This is good for the show. The worst thing to happen would be a show that's a reflection of its former self and ignored by viewers.

Why is Nixon wearing a wig?

CN had them over a barrel. They'd already lost Kim, and they couldn't do AJLT with two of the original four missing. If they had to make Miranda a lesbian, they at least could have done it in a more organic and believable way. But, whatever.

This sounds awful, but I actually sort of can't look at Che when they're on the screen. There's like, I dunno, a big cringe-factor maybe, or just the feeling I don't want them anywhere near me? I was actually hoping that Che would've told Miranda she is a "hit it and quit it" type personality and then Miranda went and explored her sexuality with others, rather than the lame "I was stoned and get too many DMs so let's hook up again" storyline. Perhaps it's just the feeling I have that the writers are trying so hard to make them a "you gotta love them!" type character, and it is just not working, in fact, it's having the opposite effect, I'm feeling repulsed from that character rather than drawn to them.

These “chance encounters” are becoming a little too frequent and unlikely. I have whored around in NYC for years and rarely ran into to the guys again.

I feel sick

I just realized something. Whatever episode it was that had Miranda's professor go on that double date with the ultra fertile couple, there were no main cast members in that scene!

Would that be the first time there was an extended scene where not a single main character had the spotlight or even included?

You could argue that the opening scenes of the original series (the English journalist who gets fucked and then fucked over by a toxic bachelor) featured none of what would become the main cast.

But that was back in the day it wasn't the Carrie show.

It was weird in this episode how they constantly made Carrie go on about "I win because my husband died". Like, the writers of the show surely know the hate of "all about me" Carrie? Yet this wasn't done with tongue in cheek, it was just Carrie making every situation about her, constantly.

I’m finally watching it. Was a big fan of the original series, but my interest faded with the movies, and ultimately I forgot all about these people. Thanks to you bitches, I’m giving the series a go.

Verdict? I love it. Let ‘em be old looking! Let ‘em have weird brown front teeth! IDGAF. It’s a decent new take on an old show, and it’s nice to see everyone again. Samantha was exhausting in the original series, so she’s not missed by me at all.

Let’s face it, Miranda was happy with Steve because he loved to fuck her. Otherwise, she was constantly rolling her eyes and treating him like a child. Now the sex is gone and they’re stuck with eachother. She’s sexual and he’s not. But her attraction to Che is puzzling and that’s where they jump the shark.

Didn't Miranda kiss a lesbian in the elevator, she was fairly femme, in the second episode of the original series, then they both agreed she wasn't gay? Well maybe Che is Miranda's "type", like the redhead Cynthia is with is her type in real life.

Have Cynthia and Rojo Caliente invited Sara over for a few drinks yet?

Michael Patrick’s internalized homophobia plays out yet again. We have the hysterical, caterwauling gay dad “I have a toddler!!!” and then Anthony, of course, gets a handjob at the charity benefit by a catering waiter. Imagine how straight people take this in. Gays are either having sex at every opportunity (regardless of propriety) or they are fey, over the top harridans.

"Sorry, Miranda, your life isn’t about hot sex with new people anymore. I’m sorry if 55-year-old women don’t want to hear that, but it’s true. "

I know my experience is by no means indicative of what's normal - it's just anecdotal. But, I know several men and women who had a mid-life sex surge. People 48-56. Usually following a divorce or breakup, but not always. Some it was fueled by trying to find someone else and obviously having sex with them as they found out if they wanted to keep seeing them. Some of it was being "free" and getting to have unencumbered sex again. And nearly all of it was fueled by "I'm old, but not crazy old, so I should take my opportunities while I can."

I actually really like the professor and her husband, but I agree that they're so tangential to the show. It's just odd. When Miranda and the professor first interacted, it was a little more organic - in class, at school. But, they've dropped that. The other black couple makes a more sense. They're still kind of plopped down in the show, but LTW and Charlotte being intense moms with kids at the same school who got to know each other makes sense. And since they're both active at school, it's always realistic that they'll communicate with each other.

[quote]Michael Patrick’s internalized homophobia plays out yet again.

I'm fascinated by this guy. To me he made such a mess of the show/movies and one of his recent interviews about the reboot or regurg or whatever it is, was dripping with defensive disdain. I just had to wonder: is Michael Patrick King the queen of bitchy queens?

Meanwhile, across The Atlantic, Kim Cattrall was smiling at the idea she could be replaced by a singing none.

Random thoughts after viewing the latest episode:

Kristin Davis cannot act - she never could but she was pretty and occasionally funny. But now, having become a feminist, it’s embarrassing to watch her try to educate Harry. Her inflated mouth gets in the way.

Evan Handler (Harry) is looking sicker in each episode.

Cynthia Nixon’s acting while she was trying to catch Che’s attention at the fundraiser was good. She does vulnerability pretty well. She doesn’t do wigs well, though - why didn’t they just dye her hair? It’s distracting.

From the opening montage of the seasons passing as Carrie types at her window are we to believe that we have now skipped forward a year? I assume this was to make Carrie’s post-Big dating more acceptable.

The Anthony hand-job line was just gratuitous and tacky. But his line to Carrie about only getting just one more “my husband died” rang true and was funny.

The Professor and husband driving through Manhattan - I would have thought that they wouldn’t have had a car? Or were they in Brooklyn?

MPK is stuck in another time period. I mean, really, opening the episode with a cut from Carly Simon's 1981 album, "Torch", and then the original "Eye Of The Tiger" backing up the tennis match? Stop making artistic decisions based on your time waiting tables on the Upper West Side and let someone else take the reins.

Steve and Miranda getting horny with each other was like watching grandma and grandpa. I almost puked.

Throwback to when CN could play against the Miranda type very successfully

I liked the use of that Carly Simon song. Eye of the Tiger - not a fan, but it's basically canon for scenes of competitiveness.

I like the Carly Simon song too but Eye Of The Tiger is beyond parody at this point.

MPK played a bitchy, gossipy, needy agent in the Curb Your Enthusiasm pilot, forever cementing my impression of him.

They've turned Steve into this

[quote] No, he was out of her league. Better body, sane, stable, business owner.

Steve was and probably still is an overgrown child. That doesn’t get better with age, and isn’t cute.

And I don’t mean a “likes to watch cartoons” child. I mean a “no comprehension of finances, has no life insurance, wife has to give him to-do lists” child.

[quote]Evan Handler (Harry) is looking sicker in each episode.

It's possible he watches the show in his trailer between scenes.

R198 The beeping was the induction cooktop..

“If the cooktop is continuously beeping it means an object, liquid or soils is putting pressure on the control panel.”

She had her fry pan sitting on it.

Che licking Miranda's tits was just disgusting to watch.

I love how those two straight moms at the auction were mesmerized by Che much in the same way every women seemed turned on by Shane on The L Word but that was believable because Shane was sexy and charismatic.

[quote] Verdict? I love it. Let ‘em be old looking! Let ‘em have weird brown front teeth! IDGAF. It’s a decent new take on an old show, and it’s nice to see everyone again. Samantha was exhausting in the original series, so she’s not missed by me at all.

r284 Sure, SJP. Keep telling yourself that.

I agree with a lot of the comments this week (more than usual), especially r288. This is what they think of us: a shrieking troll on the street and getting a hand job in the bathroom of a fundraiser for children. Gross.

One other note: I get Carrie going back to her apartment, but have you noticed that she still has the Calvin Klein Dusk Wildflower bedspread? I had that in the early 2000s. Come on. She had her place professionally redecorated. She would splurge on some new bedding.

It's a vintage duvet cover, R306. It's changing the straw they will have splurged on. Free range, organic, hand curated.

R304 even I as a gay man could understand why women got wet for Kate Moennig.

Che...no thank you.

I would love to see the viewership numbers for this train wreck. I think it’ll get a second season regardless.

[quote] One other note: I get Carrie going back to her apartment, but have you noticed that she still has the Calvin Klein Dusk Wildflower bedspread? I had that in the early 2000s. Come on. She had her place professionally redecorated. She would splurge on some new bedding.

It’s better quality than what is available now

An ouch review after the premiere but all the problems are unfixed.

I'd like to see the R311 reviewer's additional thoughts after having seen more episodes. I hated the first two episodes and don't love it overall, but I've found a few redeeming moments here and there.

I realized after watching episode 7 that AJLT does intra-episode story arcs horribly. SATC always had the broader story of the women; the broad arcs connected through the series, but also there were clear, concise episode-specific arcs where much of the humor and whimsy resided. I never realized how much Carrie's "column question" mattered. It might be formulaic, but maybe for AJLT, Carrie should have been writing a new column or article series or something addressing women in midlife - putting a question out there each episode relevant to women in that phase of their lives - something as obvious as "How Do We Date After Death?" - that's when SATC would explore an issue for one or more of the characters and possibly bring in side characters and one-off episode characters who are also part of answering the question. And think of all the questions that could be asked - "What Do We Do When the Sex Dies?" - that question is obviously for Steve and Miranda , but then the episode would possibly have one of SATC's "man on the street" montages with different people, some giving thoughtful, serious answers, others be more bold and funny, i.e., "Me and my husband's sex life hit a wall; it's like watching paint dry. What did I do about it? I started fucking his younger, more attractive brother, along with a guy from spinning class." Or someone like Susan Sharon pops up and explains, in more than a quick quip, what she did.

The most cringe part of last night's episode was when Miranda and Carrie were talking about Che and kept using "they" & "them." It honestly sounded like a bad version of an Abbott & Costello routine.

I'm with the above poster who is also sick and tired of hearing about Miranda/Cynthia's sexuality.

"Okay, so you discovered in midlife that you like pussy. Congratulations. Now STFU."

I realize I sound like a broken record, but the most traditional character (Charlotte) is the only one with a happy ending. That really should be discussed considering the original show was all about women enjoying sex the same way men do.

Well, men fuck around until their forties and then settle down. This path isn’t 100% available to women because men in their forties want younger women. Older men want younger women, too.

It’s fairly difficult to meet a mate in your 40s. Not impossible, but difficult.

Much to my surprise, when I look back on my life I realize I should have married someone I met in college or grad school. That seems to be what everyone else did. But I never even gave it a thought.

God. There should have been a seven second warning before we saw those two sea hags doing lez-lez. I couldn't hit fast forward quickly enough.

True r316. If nothing else, Che is teaching me the value of trigger warnings.

Che's big dark secret is that her name's not Cheryl, it's Cliché.

Scene in the writing workshop for this episode: Let's give them a double shot of diversity. We'll have a black couple almost run over a gay couple.

I thought I had a big head until I saw Sara Ramirez'. Damn, she was so pretty on Grey's Anatomy with that beautiful full head of hair. I guess it's the weight gain and the shaved head that makes her less attractive.

By the way did they say how much time passed while Carrie was writing the book? Seemed like they tried to make it appear like a year had passed, and when the two sea dykes had their conversation at the party Miranda said it had been three months since she'd texted Cliché. Maybe she was obsessively texting the lumberjack.

Fun fact: SJP and Jon Tenney played brother and sister in The Substance of Fire at Lincoln Center about a million years ago.

I worked for the house staff. They were both super nice and professional, although I thought SJP didn't do very well in the role. A lot of stale line readings.

R141, Plus friends with Lindy West. The writing is making so much sense to me now...

Just saw it. I enjoyed everything except the lesbian uprising. Miranda has always been like a horse who is likely to shy but she's kind of repellent, the way Nixon is playing her. I feel no empathy for her, just kind of annoyance. Poor old Steve. Scharlotte made me schink of Lizscha the way sche schpeaksch!

I could watch the Todd Wexlers being awesome for a whole show. Love me that husband of hers.

Kristin Davis's face work has impaired her speech, as others have noted.

I was pretty much watching this episode for Chris Jackson, who plays Black Charlotte's husband.

This is what Che on stage reminds me of...

Hi. cliCHÉ here. Have I ever mentioned I smoke pot??????

R322. Patrick Breen and Ron Rifkin both guest starred opposite SJP on the original SATC.

They need to have a running gag where Carrie pees any time she hears that Miranda did the lez-lez.

Hey, it's better than having her vomit all over the street after every drink r330.

That puking was funny but random.

Miranda is so annoying.

I don’t buy that Che would do a benefit for a private school. They would do a benefit for the arts programme for inner city BIPOC majority public school.

Carrie’s outfits looked cute though she needs to rethink the hair.

[quote]The most cringe part of last night's episode was when Miranda and Carrie were talking about Che and kept using "they" & "them." It honestly sounded like a bad version of an Abbott & Costello routine

Yeah R313. “Who’s on Snatch?”

Charlotte did end up happy, R315, but she too paid a high price for having partied her 20s and half her 30s away. As wonderful as Harry is, she would have lost a lot of status in marrying him, NOT just that he wasn't a WASP. Charlotte's younger self never would have even looked at him. Even Trey MacDougall , with his wealth, good looks and family credentials, was a big compromise - he was over 40, never married, had a suffocating domineering mother, and had longstanding sexual problems.

I thought it was really odd how Carrie interacted with her publisher in the first scene. Here Carrie is, in her 50 with decades of writing behind her and SJP played her like an "Awww shucks" first time writer. It just doesn't make sense. By that stage of her career it would be all about the money and bagging a multi-book deal. And why did the publisher have a belt under her boobs?

They also missed a multitude of opportunities with Carrie's online dating experience. First hot guy she responds to is nice, fun smart and looks like his photo. WTF!

I really hated that obese loudmouth editor Amanda.

What Carrie needed to do was join a grief support group. None of her friends could relate to her experience.

Exactly R313 Gotta get those all important woke points that nobody outside of Twitter cares about.

How did Cynthia Nixon get cast in a show about sex? She should be cast in a show about impotence, at most.

R337 I agree. For a show that’s so Woke, having the chubby book publisher tell a grieving widow she needs to go on a date so her memoir is a little happier is like the most tone deaf thing in the world.

And I feel like the show is allowing Che to get away with a lot of toxic traits that a cis-gendered heterosexual man would be roundly panned for. Imagine a straight guy who is a pothead over the age of thirty not only fingering a woman in her fifties in his employee’s apartment, but proceeding to sleep with her again. And oh by the way she’s married. He’d be the biggest asshole douchebag on TV. But Che’s a gender non-conforming Latina with a biker haircut so they get to suck Cynthia Nixon’s titties with reckless abandon.

Did Sara really kiss Cynthia's nipples? That was disturbing.

If this series was set when then they were all little girls in the 1960s I can imagine several alternate scenarios to this crap.

R342 at this rate, with all the awful characters they've shown so far, there would be a pile of bodies at the bottom of a basement staircase.

I've taken to only listening to these episodes and not watching so I don't have to actually see how bad these women look or visualize the ghastly lesbian (or any other) sex scenes. I actually did get a glimpse of Carrie on her date and I was appalled at how old/bad she looked. I'm 10 years older than she is and even I look better than that (seriously!). I wouldn't date her even if it was actually SJP and she was actually a lesbian. Of course, needless to say, I wouldn't date Che either.

I almost bailed on this episode. Maybe the next one will be my last.

Horseface looks a lot better when she doesn't pull her hair back, and I don't think the world needed to see 60 year old tits breastfeeding an overweight, 50 year old pothead.

Just seen the promo for episode 8. Looks like Che gives Miranda a good talking to and says she/they is not a homewrecker.

She/they says that after fucking a married woman twice. Ok.

[quote] Just seen the promo

Oh, dear!

[quote]And why did the publisher have a belt under her boobs?

Because even a pillow has to be defined R336.

It was nice to see Jon Tenney; I’ve always thought he was handsome, and he still looks good.

*Note to self: before producing/writing/wardrobing a show for HBO, refer to Dataloungers for advice. Further note: don't even bother, they'll just shit on everything and offer opinions contradicting each other.*

If there’s a second season I hope they expand Seema’s role, get rid of Che, give Nicole Ari Parker a storyline because right now she’s being wasted and cut Nyla and hubby not because they suck but because they just don’t fit. Oh and please send Brady away to college.

R335: Charlotte never really "partied". That was Carrie and probably Samantha. Her "happy ending" is a dead end storyline where she suddenly becomes a competitive athlete. Evan Handler has been given little to do usually looks like he wishes he was elsewhere.

Steve continues to be presented as a dolt (speaking of underwritten male characters) and Miranda clearly learned nothing form therapy---you don't suddenly try to ignite a relationship. The Che story line seems to be going nowhere, given the previews and the girl-on-girl stuff seems gratuitous, without the humor that often accompanied gratuitous sex on SATC. Having worlds collide at a private school fundraiser seemed like the world's laziest plot device.

The date was and the editor seemed to be a leftover story arc from SATC and could have had a little more lightness----having some fun rather than just being a whiney widow would have given her some dimension. At some point, a real life Carrie would start exploring her ambivalence about being strung along for so long and to have it end so tragically. That realization won't be so fun, but if the Tenney story arc goes anywhere that would be its useful conclusion. He seems like he's meant to be the kind of nice guy she always rejects.

The chubby/obese editor (an interesting contrast in itself - theirself?) was box ticking exercise. Actor of size. Come on, people. Keep up. It was right there in front of you.

R339: I think I felt a breeze as those claws swiped. ;)

[quote]Here Carrie is, in her 50 with decades of writing behind her and SJP played her like an "Awww shucks" first time writer. It just doesn't make sense.

It does if the whole grift teeters on a foundation of the ageless ingenue. This whole show is kind of what it's like to be in Baby Jane's head. Except there are multiple Babies Jane.

[quote]What Carrie needed to do was join a grief support group.

That - seriously - is an excellent idea. It is a late life riff on the dating war stories at the start of the series, when they used to have women (and some men) breaking the fourth wall to narrate experiences. That could have been some moving, hilarious, relatable writing and given a bunch of unemployed theater actors some income, a la Law & Order. They seemed to want to be a serious drama this time around. Carrie's grief was a thing but they lacked the bench or the actual will to explore it, which is probably what happens when you've got a writing team with more agendas than ideas. Even their diversity players have nothing to do but exist. (And compliments to them for doing so much with so little, with one big exception, who is in the unfortunate position of being the dominant that is starting to eat post-COVID Manhattan. And she's a likeable actor, playing one of the most unlikable characters in a long time. Maybe she knows it and is "leaning in.")

Cattrall was wise to stay clear of this mess. It would have been just a series of aging slut scenes the writing team would have defended amongst themselves as jokes so refined "people just don't get it."

"I actually did get a glimpse of Carrie on her date and I was appalled at how old/bad she looked. I'm 10 years older than she is and even I look better than that (seriously!)."

If you hadn't added that "seriously!" I wouldn't have believed you.

The original at least had some funny, quotable moments which became a part of the pop culture lore. The writing was crisp and in on the joke. The new version is trying to be... I'm not quite sure what. A more lighthearted version of "Scenes from a marriage"? Grief therapy? From being in on the joke, it is now being unaware that it *is* the joke. I can't think of a single line in 7 episodes that was insightful, funny, and re-usable in everyday life. And the original had all that.

[quote]Let's give them a double shot of diversity. We'll have a black couple almost run over a gay couple.

And make the gay couple hysterical, silly queens so the black couple can laugh at them.

I really like the suggestions of having the series open with Big already a year dead and Carrie ready to get back on the dating scene. Exploring dating as an older person is something that's not done much on TV, and it would be ripe for all kinds of humor and social insights. Dealing with aging bodies, previous families, disapproving adult kids mindful of their inheritance, widowers and divorcees with ISSUES, etc. Imagine the first time that Carrie fucks a hot daddy type, and he tells her he has to go because he's spending tomorrow with this GRANDKIDS? Charlotte dating a rich WASP widower whose grown kids like her about as much as Sunny Von Bulow's kids liked Claus?

It could have been really something. That's a show an older Samantha could have fit into in an interesting way. Have Miranda divorced and perhaps Charlotte widowed too, and you get some really juicy potential plotlines. And yes, you could have fit many people of color into those plotlines.

Instead, we got . . . this.

The reality is that Carrie would only get matches with men AT LEAST ten years her senior.

Men her age would be looking for much younger women.

Yeah, remember when fiftysomething Enid told thirtysomething Carrie to get out of her (tiny) dating pool? That's the pool Carrie is swimming in now, and all the men in it are STILL going for women twenty years younger.

It would be interesting to get Carrie involved in a Sugar Mama relationship. Let her meet a hot artist in his 30s who is handsome, great in bed, creative and fun, but needs to be looked after financially or he's out the door. How would she navigate that?

In an ideal SATC world, Samantha would be right there, shrugging and telling her that we all pay to play one way or another.

SJP's vanity would never allow her to be depicted as having to pay for sex.

Patronage is not paying, although if Samantha was around she would have said otherwise, but she also would have approved. It would be Cougar with benefits.

[quote]Patronage is not paying

You just keep telling yourself that, Melania. But you're still a whore, darlin'.

Knowing SATC and SJP, the Sugar Mama thing wouldn't last, but it could be a fun 3-episode arc.

You could even do a reversal of her relationship with Petrovsky. She meets this kooky thirtysomething creative type who isn't specifically looking for a sugar mama but grows to enjoy being spoiled by Carrie. Carrie likes having him at her beck and call without having to give much back emotionally. Eventually, he dumps her because he feels like he's being controlled and his emotional needs are not getting met. Also, he wants kids at some point.

THAT I'd love to watch.

It’d be fascinating to watch Carrie trying to navigate a relationship where she is the Petrovsky or the Big, and if she’d finally let go of her reflexive (and at this point excruciating) girlishness or go full Carole Radziwell.

Has Sara Ramirez had top surgery?

[quote]Charlotte dating a rich WASP widower whose grown kids like her about as much as Sunny Von Bulow's kids liked Claus?

Yessssssssch! I will akschept your proposchal!

I'm glad that they showed the black couple in the car calmly reacting to the gay father yelling at them and hitting their car, then laughing lightly about it when it was over.

It was very realistic.

Carrie was sort of the Big with Aidan, as the Carrie/Big thing was always much more about his emotional distance than his money.

I would like to see her consider the world from Petrovksy's POV: When you are older, rich, and settled in your ways, you enjoy younger lovers but you aren't going to upend your life for them. It would also be a chance for a fun Baryshnikov cameo.

Is this the Versace dress Carrie wore with Petrovsky in Paris? It started a 10-12 year trend for fussy, lacy ballgowns.

I don’t think I have ever seen it full length before.

That would be a very brave choice because it would require Carrie to own, coldly, her sexuality, her age and to give up on love. I don't think these writers are up to it, based on seven so far and a couple of truly terrible movies. The checklists for the movies seemed to focus on what would make the mugcradlers happy... the checklists for the regurge seem to to be aimed at Twitter.

Yep, that's the dress, R373.

I don't think Carrie would have to give up on love forever just because she was the patron of a hot young thing for a while. It would be an interesting arc where she began to understand how your viewpoint changes as you age. You have more material things and a stronger sense of self, but this also limits the relationships that will truly fulfill you. Do you go coldly cynical like Petrovksy and Samantha, get off and get out, or do you keep hoping for the fairy tale to happen again? What is your fairy tale at this point?

The sugar mama arc could take most of a season, and you could mine a lot of good stuff from it. That's not likely to happen in this series, though.

I bet they bring Samantha back for Season 2 in CGI form R265, using all her previous lines of dialogue to create new lines.

Samantha had it wired with Smith, because she still looked great, they had amazing chemistry, and he genuinely loved her. Carrie looks far from great, she is not terribly sexual even when she was younger, and she is far too self-absorbed for someone young and hot to fall madly in love with her.

It is so puzzling... SJP looks worse than she should. Neither the Marilla Cuthbert bun nor the Lion King mane flatter her at all. A real puzzle.

Carrie sounds a lot like Petrovksy 15 years ago: rich, passably attractive, low-key sexuality, and totally self-absorbed. Just the type to spoil a younger lover to death but lose them due to being self-centered and set in their ways.

Carrie would never want to spoil anyone, she is the one who wants to be spoiled.

I think that's the ongoing frustration with the character. She never changes. She never seems to get a clue about herself.

And that's why the show is dull: Carrie acts like she did 20 years ago, and the showrunners mined manic pixie dream girl to death then.

I struggle to think what new perspective this show could bring to the story of single(ish) women in their 50s and 60s that the Golden girls didn’t already do.

Beyond more profanity and more explicit sex scenes, it just seems like it’s already been done by a superior cast.

Yes, but people like profanity and explicit sex scenes. Also, the world has changed a lot since the 80s when GG aired. It could have been a fun, dirty update of GG if handled right.

I still wonder how Carrie got that Petrovsky Paris dress in her luggage.

Is SJP the only person on earth still believing Carrie is a fascinating character and not some shallow, narcissistic asshole?

Golden Girls was the Little House on the Prairie of life at a certain age. It was entertaining but any decent comedy drama could mop the floor with Golden Girls. It was a great comedy and loads of fun but even when it got serious it was a great comedy getting serious for a minute. In a class by itself, but in its class.

R386, I think she's aided and abetted by the top. Who may be a bottom, for all I know. But there's more than one kind of gay male masquerading as a SATC gal.

What are Cynthia's titties looking like these days?

Charlotte looks really tubby in those get-ups they put her into. They are clothes for someone slim.

The idea of two people in their 50s drinking so much at a dinner that they immediately--both--throw up is ludicrous.

Either they are both pathetic drunks or the writers are going for cheap laughs.

[quote]what happens when you've got a writing team with more agendas than ideas.

[quote] It would have been just a series of aging slut scenes the writing team would have defended amongst themselves as jokes so refined "people just don't get it."

What's kinda fascinating to me to watch all these writers who make their careers out of pointing out the problems in the past, who, when they get a chance to improve things for a modern age, show just one thing: they are TERRIBLE writers. I don't care how many times they all big up each other on Twitter, ecstatically moaning about how each of them is a "raw, royal and real" writer, they really don't know how to do it.

No one is really going to complain about a "woke" agenda in a show that is actually written well. Personally I love a diverse show, but if it's not written well, it just comes across as smug and patronising, to everyone. AJLT isn't the only one that this is happening to either, though it does seem to be one of the worst, as it's done in such a ham-fisted way, by people who seem to be way too pleased with themselves. But like, I watched the new L Word recently and "cliffhanger: running to the airport, who will she pick?" and "declaration of love when marrying someone else" are such ridiculous clichés, and they're not even played that way.

Compare that to something like Killing Eve - it was only later I realised what a diverse show that is, and yet, doesn't make an issue of it, it focuses on telling a fun and interesting story with great writing and great performances.

The whole tennis thing was odd.

Are we to believe that Charlotte is, suddenly, a competitive athlete?

I was wondering why we were watching that. Until I realized it was just to set up her husband being annoyed with her for the rest of the show. It made both of them look bad.

[quote] The original at least had some funny, quotable moments which became a part of the pop culture lore

I thought Charlotte had some funny ones:

Them? There are others?

It's not an affair. It's a finger.

Bullshit from the writers: We tried to be REAL! That's why we made Steve 90 and had Miranda cheating on him for ages. It's REAL!

[quote]Meanwhile, Miranda had her own romantic twist when she reconnected with Che and went straight to the bedroom, even telling them she’s falling in love. (We noticed that Che didn’t exactly return the favor.) Zuritsky doesn’t want to say too much about where this is heading for Miranda, but “you are going to be on that ride with her, and you will see in the end whether she fell too far, too fast.” And to the fans who are mourning the imminent demise of Miranda and Steve’s marriage, “we felt as invested in their relationship as all the fans did,” Rottenberg emphasizes. “We tried very hard to be true to who they are now, and what is organically, even if painfully, happening in their marriage.”

Who they are now....plot devices. I wonder if any of the writers are 50-something women. If not, then that's part of the problem. It probably also would account for the underdevelopment of the male characters.

And how would those writers know what “organic” issues arise with a middle-aged, straight couple?

[quote]No one is really going to complain about a "woke" agenda in a show that is actually written well. Personally I love a diverse show, but if it's not written well, it just comes across as smug and patronising, to everyone.

R392, I've said it before, will say it again, because I agree with your point so much: one of the best achievements in diversity is Sex Education - which probably doesn't require any more suspension of belief than does AJLT. It is just what you're describing. They have a wildly diverse cast and they never talk about it. They just get on with. It's just people playing out storylines and its fantastic and sometimes moving and always entertaining.

That's why in this mess I think LTW works so well. And the prof (who is part of another show the way she's written. Something had to have changed between announcement of the casting and production.) Seema's written a little bit more obviously (Diwali) but overall she works great too. Che's the failure and Che's the one they write for. Figures. Because in their bubble, Che's the street cred.

R395: Zuritsky and Rottenberg are producers not writers but obviously play a role in this mess. Zuritsky is 52 so she obviously should know better. Rottenberg's age isn't immediately available but she was part of the Russian story arc of SATC, which was the series at its worst and lowest energy, so she may be part of the problem with tone. She also was part of the Berger arc, so she knows how to underdevelop a male character.

[quote] I wonder if any of the writers are 50-something women.

I Googled and there's two cruising fifty, I'd say... Julie Rottenberg and Elisa Zitski (I have totally mangled the names but they're at least in their forties I'd guess based on their pics on the HBO website.)

R350 I don't get what they're doing with the clothes either. Even the general press isn't going all crazy about the wardrobe choices. There were a few "Carries back!"articles when the show started but now it's more to spark debate over what works for older women and what doesn't.

As for Charlotte, they're having trouble dressing her because she no longer has a defined waist and is thick and pair shaped at the same time. It's very hard to dress her sort of figure in a high fashion way. Carrie and Seema look the best in clothes because they are still slim and don't have the waist problem.

The other thing is as you age you generally get if not more conservative as least more simple and conventional in your clothing. These gals often look like the equivalent of that 50 year old in Abercombie on Fire Island.

R402 it's perfect!

The stupid and hard-headed fashion choices make Charlotte look like a tank, and Carrie like a gargoyle who just burst out of a thrift store. Miranda looks… fine, I guess.

Thanks, MPK, FIX YOUR FUCKING SHOW!

From an earlier thread, and a perfect description IMO:

[quote]Carrie dresses like a high end thrift store exploded

I noticed that Miranda looks pretty awkward in heels. And the wig with its unnatural shade of gray.

Why would Nixon wear that crazy wig?

Did they get that wig at Party City?

OMG, I forgot about the subway attacker dressed like Chuckie. Now I’m laughing my ass off all over again.

R399, they are writers. They just get producer titles, which is a thing. It doesn’t mean they produce.

And I'm sure the fact it was written by her good friend is just a complete coincidence.

[quote]The show improved from the pilot and Episode 5 was truly excellent. But some of the stuff is just nuts.

Also, episode 5 was not "truly excellent". I haven't heard one person who wasn't repulsed by that kitchen scene.

The clothes also illustrate another problem; what does and doesn't work as you get older. There is that "don't think about fashion, wear what gives you joy" thing going on in social media at the moment but this show clearly illustrates that some clothes just do not work with middle-aged faces and body shapes. Charlotte's party dresses are the obvious example, but also Carrie in the Indian party getup. That would have worked in the first series because young people can wear odd things and still look good because they are young. Instead, she looked like some sort of witch/cryptkeeper from an Indian horror film.

That outfit she wore to Diwali was so weird, because there were so many beautiful saris in that very shop, and she would've looked a lot better in one of them, and that's what she chose?

I don’t understand than bun Carrie keeps wearing with her hair.

I like that they're giving Carrie a youthful doppelganger who lives in her building, complete with the batshit crazy outfits.

I was shocked at how chubby Charlotte looked in that green getup. Carrie looks horrible when she wears a bun. I noticed that the window where she was typing is different than the window in the original series.

That giant cloth bag with the yard long fringe was the strangest thing I've ever seen. How can SJP agree to these bizarre get-ups? The Diwali hair decor looked like her head was covered with tumours. Yet in her ordinary life, SJP seems to favour normcore.

R350, you have truly grasped the essence of this forum. Seldom have I heard fundamental truth expressed so comprehensively and yet so succinctly. I tip my hat, Sir!

This show is hot garbage. It’s actually remarkable how much they botched it, especially after how much the second movie was pinned. And Che Diaz is the worst character to ever appear on an American television show.

Miranda and Steve made sense, because Miranda needed to be always in charge and control and Steve was willing to be the sad sack pushover.

I love the new show. And I think SJP looks great. Like in the shot where she walks to the restaurant where she meets her online date. Or in the opening shot with the seasons passing by.

And regarding the vomiting. He started to vomit, and it created a domino effect where Carrie started to vomit, too. That is not uncommon.

There is a blogger out there who thinks Miranda whaled on that Chuckie creature so hard because she secretly hates her (red-headed) kid.

We all hate Brady. He's an asshole.

So vomiting is contagious, like yawning?

Who knew?

R421 I've never vomited because someone else was vomiting and to the best of my knowledge, no one's ever vomited because I did.

[quote]And regarding the vomiting. He started to vomit, and it created a domino effect where Carrie started to vomit, too. That is not uncommon.

Honey, you need to hang out with a more sophisticated crowd.

R419 I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough at that trivial prisspot.

Touchy fans and any people who get tetchy about criticism of entertainment, truly, do not belong here.

r425 , it's common occurrence,

I could have gone my whole life without seeing that Che and Miranda sex scene. I so hate what they are doing to Miranda & Steve.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I assumed Seema, who created Carrie's account, weeded out the fakes, posers, and cheaters. Seema doesn't seem the incompetent kind like Charlotte, offering a date with her sex columnist friend at an auction visited only by married parents of her kids' school.

Why does Sara Ramirez insist on looking like that?

R358 the black couple wasn't laughing at the gay couple. They were laughing at the situation.

Agree r393. That whole tennis setup was weird and out of character. Was it just so Charlotte can give the little speech on women always apologizing? Everything is so heavy-handed on this new show. It’s distracting and not interesting

Everything seems off kilter. The acting, weird wigs, Kristin’s weird plastic surgery, the bad writing, the new characters that don’t fit anywhere, and shoehorning fucking woke crap into every storyline

There's no season arc. It feels like a bunch of sketches, sewn together that just stops at the end of the tenth episode. Too many characters.

R392, Killing Eve has the benefits typically associated with a blank canvas. SATC has baggage and this show comes to the table with that baggage firmly in hand. Look what happened to Chris Noth. The people running this show are trying to refresh and revive something that would never play in today’s environment. I don’t think they are really trying to be woke frankly. I think they are trying to figure out how SATC could work in 2022 and still maintain some semblance of itself.

This last episode was completely awful but there have been a couple of gems in a season of ten episodes. I really like the show overall and I’m gonna give them time to figure out the right balance.

They need to pull out all the stops and get Kim Cattrall back though.

Frankly, it’s probably. Ore realistic for one of the friends to have drifted away. I wish it hadn’t been Samantha, though.

more realistic

[quote]I don’t think they are really trying to be woke frankly. I think they are trying to figure out how SATC could work in 2022 and still maintain some semblance of itself.

I know people's eyes light with with $$ with these things, so me saying they should've left it in the past is futile, but... they should've left it in the past. Created a new show about new characters navigating life today. I guess they worry it wouldn't get as many views because the return of Sex and the City is the draw for a lot of people, but if it was a well done show, it could definitely get an audience.

Maybe the result of all this is the realisation that Sex and the City no longer works, full stop. Now or at any time in the future, no matter what changes they try to make to it?

R 421, why did she vomit? Did she look at the ratings or her horse face in the mirror?

My favorite ensemble show "Mom" started out with all white characters, but added two black women, a black gay man, a black blind man who was a veteran, and a man in a wheelchair, and guess what? There was nothing awkward whatsoever about those people becoming part of the show. And it was still funny as hell.

These AJLT writers have a lot to learn about diversity.

[quote]These AJLT writers have a lot to learn about diversity.

It's so bad that whenever I see the new characters on screen I can only think: "the actors must be saying to themselves: what a load of shit this is".

[quote]he started to vomit, and it created a domino effect where Carrie started to vomit, too. That is not uncommon.

The sex scene with Che and Miranda created an entire chain reaction in my neighborhood. It was disgusting.

Thank you, R432, for reminding me so much of my mother, whom I miss.

One theory on the domino effect of vomiting when seeing another person vomit was that it would have been a signal in ancient hunter/gather groups. If one person was vomiting, it could have been because they ate something poisonous and possibly the whole group might of as well. Thus, it would have been a survival mechanism for everyone to vomit.

When Charlotte and her husband were leaving the gym and walking down that marble stairwell, it seriously sounded like Kristin was speaking with a retainer in her mouth, daffy duck style. What kind of surgery would alter you so much that your throat and tongue can't make the proper sounds anymore?

Also, which gym was that?

[quote]What are Cynthia's titties looking like these days?

Out from underneath her armpits R389.

I am surprised that people are surprised at sympathy vomiting.

If you have spent any time in grade school, I assume that you would’ve observed this.

[quote]Maybe the result of all this is the realisation that Sex and the City no longer works, full stop. Now or at any time in the future, no matter what changes they try to make to it?

SJP will be going to the SATC cash cow until she dies, she has nothing else. Cynthia and Kristen need the paychecks. If they all live to their 80s, they'll still be reviving this show, hobbling down the sidewalk in five-inch heels and ridiculous outfits when they all have one foot in the grave.

[quote]They need to pull out all the stops and get Kim Cattrall back though.

Kim Cattrall is never coming back. She even told them to recast her role and offered a few suggestions, Sharon Stone among them.

After watching this season, she was absolutely right. She must be laughing her ass off at how it's universally disliked.

I can see why middle-aged women hate this show, and why SJP is so steamed that no one is giving her credit for showcasing older men and women. The problem is that these women have no financial worries, are not caring for aging parents, getting pushed out of their jobs, struggling to pay their kids' college tution and dealing with husbands walking out on them. They're not even going through menopause, which would wreak havoc with their sleep and sex life.

When you cross all that off the list, what do you have left? How do I sell my luxury apartment and find a new one? How do I get over the loss of a husband whose health problems were visible to anyone with a half a brain cell? How do I find a ray of hope in my new book that Oprah wants for her bookclub? How soon can I wear my five-inch heels again? Should I cheat on my husband and did my late husband cheat on me? What do I do for my nonbinary child? Where do I put all these flowers and baskets, and how do I find the stuff I put into storage?

SJP does deserve credit for showing wrinkly older women who still have sex (ugh Che), want to break out of a rut, and find themselves behind the curve on issues of race and gender. It's just not enough to make them relatable to great numbers of women.

Great post r451.

For a long time before she finally lost her cool, Cattrall was very generously saying: "hey, it's not for me anymore, but please recast the character", as R450 points out. If the cast had just made Seema the new Samantha and stopped trying to pressure Cattrall into it, Kim would've just given it her blessing and moved on, I am sure. There really feels like there's a whole high school vibe going on. SJP is friends with Andy Cohen after all, so I guess there is no surprises there.

Child actors always have arrested development. Not surprising SJP and Nixon ganged up. It’s a shame because I used to find SJP so likeable.

I was going to suggest they bring back Candice Bergen but i see she was on The Conners last year and may be contracted to go there again.

Miranda used to be my favourite character in the original series, helped along by the fact that Nixon was the best actress of the bunch. But I cannot stand her character now.

It’s like they all forgot how to act. And Kristin Davis mouth/vocals are completely ruined

I totally know what you guys mean about that scene with Charlotte yelling at Harry. Her mouth sounded so weird!

I really don't think their storyline needs to include fighting either. They always seemed just cute and into each other. Just give them the trans daughter storyline and how they navigate that.

The new Carrie is actually more obnoxious, because at least in the past, she had real problems that most women could identify with - how to pay the bills on a marginal salary in an expensive city, how to find a decent husband past age 30, how to manage your emotions so your heart doesn't get broken over and over. Her current problems of not liking her new ultra-luxury apartment, deciding whether to go ahead with major plastic surgery with no regard for the cost, deciding which of the slim, attractive, professional-looking men a few years younger than her on Tinder she should choose for a date...yes, we've all been there.

Miranda is slightly more relatable. Not in her bizarre attraction to Che, but her major frustration with her dead end marriage and disappointment in her bratty teenager.

I really do not know how many people can relate to Charlotte's current issues. One kid is a little screwed up, though not in a major way, but the other seems destined to be a concert pianist and probably excels at everything else, as well as giving her no trouble at all.

It's just not a good show. Pointless and needlessly maudlin and preachy - a horrible combo.

R459 is spot-on. The audience who identified with Carrie in SATC did so because she reflected their desires, aspirations and anxieties. She struggled. She wasn't part of the class to which she aspired. She wanted love - true love. They could relate to that.

What portion of that audience relates to her now? A rich widow with. book deal and Oprah's endorsement. How many viewers are in Carrie's economic strata?

This was a terribly conceived revival, developed and written by smug writers woefully out of touch, who think they can do no wrong. And it shows.

I think the point of the show is that not even in the Sex & The City universe, "... and they lived happily ever after." exists. The latest episode very much points that out when the publisher demands a happier ending of Carrie's book and Carrie struggling with giving her fans and readers hope when she can't see it anywhere in her life right now.

Sometimes even rich people struggle (or Karma kicks them in the cunt bone). For some, that's comforting to see.

I like Seema, she has a very regal air about her and she seems like she would be above all this petty insipid conversation. I don't buy that she would want to hang out with these 3 idiots at all. In fact, when she and the other main 3 were at the bar trying to get Carrie hooked up, she looked bored to me. She was scanning the bar looking for something better.

It was very presumptuous of Seema to put Carrie on three dating/hookup sites. Most people would be furious if some one did that without permission.

Was Steve always so goofy and out of control? It's like watching Jerry Lewis or Steve Urquell.

There might be something in whst people hace suggested, Miranda goes to tell him the marriage is over but instead he tells her he is ill or dying.

I wonder if Kim hadn't so publicly fallen out with SJP and refused to ever return, woyld she have shot a few Zoom appearances (for a huge fee and great filtering).

As she looks now, Carrie would have no luck on dating apps beyond some total shlubs. It’s extremely unrealistic that she could find anyone her age without a huge sign announcing her net worth.

[quote] It’s extremely unrealistic that she could find anyone her age without a huge sign announcing her net worth.

Locals would know who she is. She is supposed to be a famous columnist, and married to a millionaire who died recently. Plenty of news coverage should've featured her. Quite frankly, I'd assume some scam artists or greedy Lotharios would've made their moves already. But, I guess, that would be a different show.

They should give the two black couples a spin off and get them away from these crazy white people. I like all four actors and characters and would like to see more of them. Hell, let Seema join that show, too. She’d have more fun with them.

R451 makes an excellent point and one that the this series and the 3rd movie failed to address. Who doesn’t love a little escapism? And the series does draw you in. I think it’s euphoric recall maybe or something. It’s beautifully styled and produced. And right now we need that. But goddamn what awful people with insignificant problems for the most part. Your husband died but you have a 100 million dollars in the bank? Ok. You’re a successful attorney with a devoted husband and a kid who seems relatively normal but your going to throw that all away because your ungrateful and the relationship morph’s into what 90% of what happens in most marriages. My point is and it’s already been discussed these are petty woman with petty problems and it’s impossible to have any empathy for them now. At least in the previous series there was some relatability and struggle. Now it’s just high class problems.

Agreed about the spin-off.

This may have come up in the previous threads but they got her reaction to Big's death very wrong. It's not simply that she's lost the great love of her life but that she should have seen it coming and done something. --been more concerned about his diet, exercise and health. He should have been walking, not spinning. Chris Noth looked as if he was five minutes away from a coronary and pregnant with a beach ball. I hope that was acting because otherwise I see diabetes and mini-strokes in his future.

n real life, Carrie would have felt immensely guilty and angry at him to deflect the guilt. That's something the 30-something scriptwriters couldn't get right because they had never been there.

For a comedy to steep itself in this subject matter implies a special responsibility to get things right. If they had depicted her grief accurately, the Emmy nominations would be piling up.

I seriously doubt locals would recognize her on the apps. It’s NYC. Everyone is in their own orbits, exposed to different segments of the culture. It’s not Mayberry.

At this point, Carrie would be one of the women Richard Gere is escorting in American Gigolo.

Wouldn’t Carrie be on Riya anyway? And sorry I meant 2nd movie not 3rd.

R461: She isn't "struggling" with anything. She's part of a stratum that always has second chances---crappy book, well do some research and punch it up. Plenty of money (where is Natasha, btw), so you can say "screw it" (but then there'd be no dating plot). Doesn't like the cold modernism and high tech of the new apartment---sell it and make even more money. If she did have a real struggle with grief, it might be interesting but these writers are incapable of that. An earlier poster suggested fast forwarding past the initial grief and putting her in more relatable circumstances----a downsized life, getting back into the dating world, etc. Miranda's dead end marriage could be more relatable if we saw them go through some sort of wacky couples counseling---she could still have a same-sex affair (Seinfeld did that ages ago) but it would not be this obvious plot device thing. And Charlotte....it's a shame she wasn't the one who had other priorities, because there's nothing really interesting going on with her character and with all of Carrie's money, she's no longer the only rich princess.

Tne fact that everyone has to praise Baby Carrie and hold her hand mirrors how off-kilter the production company must be and why Kim Cattrall was wise to bail. Can you imagine all the ass kissing going on at that set? Can you imagine anyone disagreeing with SJP? The show keeps invoking Samantha for no good reason. It's as if they can't leave Kim Cattrall alone.

The show isn't very generous to Samantha either--she left because the money wasn't there, which seemed like a dig at Cattrall. Can't people just grow apart? It's as if SJP can't forgive KC for not falling in line. I've never disliked SJP but she seems to be very thin-skinned and needs. to have smoke blown up her ass 24/7. That may explain the Andy Cohen connection. i guess he's her Stanford.

Carrie barely had "neighborhood celebrity", she certainly wasn't a local celebrity. Think about it, how many columnists or bloggers do you know anything about where you live? Yeah she had some books but again, do you know any in your town? Big's death had some traction in the financial world because of who he was but that was as far as that went, he was no Elon Musk. Also, straight men didn't read her column and wouldn't have bought her books so it's unrealistic to think that straight men would recognize her on dating apps.

But the show has always gone back and forth on her fame, R475. There was one episode where she and Berger walked a red carpet and the photogs were going crazy for her, all knowing her by name. And then in the first movie, when she and Big got married, her marriage made the papers and the designer gave her the dress as a gift, etc. I’ve always found that wavering on her fame to be annoying.

Anyone want to describe how Miranda's tittage is holding up?

R451 I agree with you, but just pointing out that the original series DID deal with having to care for aging parents. Miranda helped care for Steve’s mother. She and Anne Meara had a really touching scene about that where Miranda was helping her bathe (if I recall correctly.) you weren’t conked over the head with it but it was there.

And don't forget, R476 -- her pic was on the side of a bus!

True R476 but still, she had no fame in a straight man's world. After reading your post I remembered her telling Big their wedding made Page Six and he really didn't care. Red carpet moments and designer wedding dresses are for us gheys.

That someone drew a weiner on, R479.

[quote]It was very presumptuous of Seema to put Carrie on three dating/hookup sites. Most people would be furious if someone did that without permission.

I rolled my eyes at that plot point. They couldn't have Carrie that eager to get fresh cock, so they, stupidly, made Seema do it, which was a gross violation of Carrie's privacy and their new friendship.

I agree with the posters above— grief group with touching and funny moments played by NYC theater actors like street interview moments of the first few episodes of the original series— I loved those, and it would refresh this new series. Also have Carrie transition to sugar mama. It could be interesting, funny, and sexy. Everything Samantha would approve. But it’s true the fraus want to see her continue her silly fairy tale aspirations. I do love that scene in the upcoming episode where Carrie faces her younger self and undoubtedly realizes she has become her old neighbor Mrs. Cohen. At least they have some humbling moments for Carrie, but she can be humbled and grow from jt which she seems unable to do.

I'm not convinced the money is the problem. Has there ever been a time more suited to some escapism and hope and just plain fun? (Not Abu Dhabi fun.) Besides, 90% of the viewers last time weren't living their lives but loved watching it. If they aren't cop shows, most of the shows are about the moneyed. Money is more fun to write about.

I super agree with this: "It's just not a good show. Pointless and needlessly maudlin and preachy - a horrible combo."

There's no joy in Mudville. It is a series of vignettes to show everybody how they're not those shallow bitches who concocted that movie in the desert, they're today's feeling bitches and they get the struggle.

Carrie, via some writer who must gotten lost, summed up the essence of the original series: I am someone who is looking for love. In the end, that's what the whole thing was about, for better or worse.

This show doesn't know what it's about and it is to bloated and unwieldy to focus. Suppose they stuck with the premise: Big dies. There were ten episodes in her processing that. And humour. (When my dad died, they lost his body somewhere between the nursing home and the autopsy. We thought it was hilarious, after the fact. And to be honest a little hilarious while the facts were being established.) There was humour in the in lieu of flowers flowers that kept arriving. There could be pathos in Carrie being person number nine and a table that seats eight. Carrie should have had the drinking problem, not Miranda. But I wonder if SJP is comfortable outside anything that doesn't feel like screwball comedy and Baby Carrie, eternal ingenue.

There was lots to do but I think these people were so burned by the rightful excoriation for movie #2 they were determined no one could nail them this time... and now everybody's nailing them.

I have no idea why HBO didn't keep the stars and get a new production team.

Another idea: Big didn't die, but he cheated, big time. Basically it's a reboot of her Divorce show only Big just fucks off. But an amazingly hostile divorce of the century and Carrie's left to pick up the pieces.

I feel sorry for the black actors who play the prof (Naya?) and her husband. They have good chemistry and they've got a great vibe about them. They just aren't part of the show. Miranda could have easily known her in any number of ways without that ham fisted scene in class (that was never subsequently explored again. Oh, middle aged white lady doesn't get it! Check!) It was my first clue that the big twist at the end of series one will be the revelation that: [italic]the real Miranda was kidnapped by evil Samantha and is being held captive at a ranch bungalow with a walkout basement in a some red state.[/italic]

Now there's some fine writin'.

I find it hard to comprehend Miranda mooning over some "it" that admits to smoking so much pot it forgets shit. Not an attractive quality unless Che was bullshitting. I didn't see the whole ep yet but stopped there and went to sleep.

The problem with Miranda and Che is they don't have an ounce of chemistry. There is nothing there. What if the storyline had been Miranda and Naya had an affair? Naya was a lesbian prof and they start sleeping together. THAT I would have bought. I literally fast forward every time they are on the screen. No one is buying this.

I also think it's weird that Che plies Miranda with weed before taking advantage of her

Miranda has been a shrewd, smart professional her whole life and now she’s fascinated by some hideous, low rent pothead?

Che has more in common with Brady than Miranda. Steve was bad enough— why is Miranda hanging out with idiots? A real life Miranda would have no time for Che.

I’m in a Panera Bread and there’s a bonsai cliCHÉ in here. Trust me when I say it’s not a good look in 3D.

Cynthia's husband in real life is basically an orange version of Che so it's not an entirely unrealistic pairing.

Then Cynthia can run a livecam and spare us having to watch it junk up the reboot.

The whole Charlotte tennis thing was just strange. Charlotte was never pegged as an athlete in SATC and now she's competitive and good at tennis? With her husband who was always framed as a non-physical lawyer? And it's not as if she even looks like she might play tennis regularly. It would have been far more realistic if they had argued over the trans-y daughter and Charlotte refused to apologize for her perceptive.

The more I see Kirsten on the show the more I think she might have a serious health problem, or be recovering from one. Her body is puffy and bloated beyond middle-aged weight gain. Her comedic timing is off and they seem to be editing around her now almost non-existent acting abilities. Of course, her facial surgery hasn't helped but something else is going on there.

Charlotte and her husband (both who look as if they would get winded crossing a living room) should have argued over a game of bridge, not tennis.

The only (preposterous) thing that would save this po-faced shitshow would be if somebody would start gaslighting Carrie by sending her evidence that Big was alive. Hilarity and craziness ensue.

R494 Kristen is a recovering alcoholic, she has the same droopy face that Lara Flynn Boyle has.

I rewatched the whole series when this thing started and I have a vague memory of Charlotte being a champ in high school athletics. And it might have been tennis.

Kristen was always the weakest of the three actresses, from what I've seen. She's pretty but she never seems to really fully be her character... watching her is watching an actress... watching Nixon or Cattrall they were inhabiting the character. I credit SJP with great comic timing. It's too bad she has to play ingenue because she has wry down pretty well.

[quote]Cynthia's husband in real life is basically an orange version of Che so it's not an entirely unrealistic pairing.

Except Rojo Caliente is a lesbian, not "non-binary" or "trans"

[quote]Except Rojo Caliente is a lesbian

Oh, honey . . . Che Diaz is the biggest dyke who ever dyked.

Christ, this show has to be up there with the worst revival.

Carrie acting like her life meant nothing because her husband died after 20 years together. The way she acts, you'd think he was hit by a drunk cab driver on the way out of the church after their wedding.

Carrie pulling the "my husband died" card every goddamn second.

Every straight woman falling in love with Che. Sara Ramirez is NOT Katherine Moenning.

Che's obsession with weed. I know plenty of people of all ages who smoke, but if you're constantly bringing it up after age 30, it doesn't mean you have a personality, it means you're fucking pathetic.

The shrieking bottomfrau with his toddler. And from the split second we saw of the other dad, he deserves better than the shrieker.

No one mentions that Amanda the editor was the bulldyke character from Another Gay Movie?

[quote]Carrie pulling the "my husband died" card every goddamn second.

That is so odd to me. It makes her seem like an idiot.

I'm glad they had Anthony call her on it.

[quote]Oh, honey . . . Che Diaz is the biggest dyke who ever dyked.

Of corse she is, but they won't stop hitting us over hte head with "Che is non-binary". "Che is a THEY", or in her words, "I'm both genders and neither all at the same time!"

Being a regular dyke is no longer acceptable or "woke"

Che Diaz makes Rosie look femme.

[quote]"I'm both genders and neither all at the same time!"

You're a woman who's a big fucking bulldyke. This gender bullshit is ridiculous.

But she goes to Yankees Stadium in a cap and watches the crowd wonder what she is! She's soooo ambiguous.

^That's the kind of narcissism that is so typical of certain people these days (Randa Jarrar springs to mind). WHY would anyone there be interested in giving Che that attention? Aren't they there to watch sport? People like Che really think they are the centre of everyone else's attention, but most people wouldn't give them more than a couple of seconds thought, if that.

I understand why Sara Ramirez and the director of Transparent, both middle-aged women, announced they were nonbinary rather than lesbians. Unless you're Ellen, being a lesbian doesn't let feminine-presenting women opt out of the pretty game. Being nonbinary does.

Carry on.

This show has become the biggest douche contest.

Frontrunners gotta be, in no particular order, Carrie, Che Diaz, Miranda and Mr. Big.

Mr. Big is (allegedly) a rapist, so that's saying a lot for everyone in the running.

[quote] Tne fact that everyone has to praise Baby Carrie and hold her hand mirrors

They hold her hand mirrors?!?! Is this so that she can look at herself down there? Gross.

I can't believe you all don't remember that Charlotte is a serious runner. Running in Central Park was her thing!

Remember when Sara Ramirez was on Grey’s Anatomy and her character was in love with TR Knight.

R511 I'm glad I ended up under a bus

Che Diaz, I served with Katherine Moennig. I knew Katherine Moennig. Katherine Moennig was a friend of mine. Che, you're no Katherine Moennig

OK Che, we get it, you smoke a lot of weed. You smoke so much weed you can’t keep your DMs straight. You smoke so much weed that it’s step one in your sex routine. We hear you. You smoke a lot of weed.

People who make marijuana their entire personality are some of the most tiresome people out there.

"The problem with Miranda and Che is they don't have an ounce of chemistry. There is nothing there."

I agree in part. I agree that there's no chemistry that could last. But, I DO buy that someone like Miranda - who overthinks everything, is bored with her life, is really having a midlife crisis but isn't the type to make rash decisions - would totally fall for someone like Che who is her opposite, who seems to be saying "fuck it, you gotta live." Che is what Miranda thinks she wants to be - honest, living the life she wants unapologetically - or at least Che is that way in Miranda's head right now. And she's attracted to that because she can't conjure that directness and "this is who I am and what I want" aspect of herself.

BUT, I would find it stupid if they continued together. Miranda would realize that while Che may be "amazing" in some ways, there's also her negative qualities. Miranda would get a better sense of where she's going and realize she doesn't want to (and can't) completely become a different person, the type who would want to be with Che. She'd realize that she is who she is and she might make some tough decisions and change her life in a substantial way - like divorcing steve and dating a woman - but there's a lot of deep personal structure that would stay the same -- she likes order, she likes clear boundaries, she's critical, she has high expectations of people. She'd very quickly get annoyed by Che. IF she continued down the woman path, she'd find someone more like herself.

On the other side, Che seems like the type who had been through this with multiple Mirandas. She enjoys the rush of being found "amazing", she likes being a transitory/first-time fuck for confused women. And then she'd get bored with it and never be in a full relationship with the person.

Che is knocking on 50 and is still obsessed with letting everyone know her sexual identity and the fact that she smokes a lot of weed. This is shit people who are a generation younger than her are about, she's way too old for this shit.

[quote]who overthinks everything, is bored with her life,

Bitch no longer has to work for a living, has a ton of money and gets to live a fabulous life in NYC. 99% of the population don't have the luxury of being that "bored."

[quote]Che is knocking on 50 and is still obsessed with letting everyone know her sexual identity and the fact that she smokes a lot of weed. This is shit people who are a generation younger than her are about, she's way too old for this shit.

This is very true, but also, Che is pretty much the perfect example of those Twitter academics we laugh about on here: pushing 50 and still doing all this stuff.

r519 whoever could you be talking about?

Bwahaha R520! She certainly comes to mind! But even more so, I think Che is reminiscent of this one:

It's almost a cruel trick that writers play on characters sometimes. Take an obnoxious, unattractive character (like, oh, say, Che) and demand that everybody that meets then or sees them finds them irresistible and sexy and amazing.

The audience has no choice but to hate them with the heat of a thousand suns.

[quote]Katherine Moennig

She's nothing to write home about.

Looks like Mrs. Rojo Caliente's having The Talk with Steve in ep. 8. I hope he dumps her and since it looks like cliCHÉ's stepping off too looks like she's fucked.

The professor seems like she’s on a separate show than the others. Plus, why can’t she adopt or find a surrogate?

Che is so annoying that I was tempted to turn off the episode once she appeared.

The whole face lift bit was annoying.

The current writing team sucks.

OMG *CRINGE* Miranda naked in bed with Che. Yikes

Why was Carrie dressed like Paula Poundstone circa 1994?

It took me a minute to realize that was Jon Tenney.

I wonder if David Eigenberg still has a nice ass? I was never that into Steve during the show's run, but then there was that episode where he rolled over in bed, naked, and I started to look at him a bit differently.

They are doing the male characters dirty on this show. Steve and Harry look weak and Stanford looks like a jerk leaving like that.

Steve washed his hands before fingering her but then DIDN'T wash them afterwards and was touching food containers. eeew

The actor who plays Brady is actually 27 years old!

Well Stanford kind of couldn't help it, but damn, is Anthony ever going to say jack shit about it? Maybe next time, for the 100th time, Carrie is mentioning that she is a widow?

They finally had a fat person on the show, the book editor

The actor who played Stanford couldn't help it, but the writers had a choice and that was a shitty way to write him out.

Charlotte was always prissy, it was out of character for her to swear at her husband like that in public. I don't think I ever heard her say Fuck or GD before.

The writers aren't even trying to maintain continuity with the characters

I couldn't believe how big Charlotte's legs were in that tennis skirt. She had cankles!

Carrie and Anthony are headed for a big blow up. They are totally unsuited to be friends. He made a point of sharing that he had shit his pants on a date with a girl and ignored Carrie's distaste for the story. He's always been nasty but now he has quite an aggressive face, mostly the mouth. Truly, they pick the worst people to represent gays and lesbians here and on SatC, which is odd because Darren Starr and MPK are both gay. . The only ones I liked were David and David and the elegant NYC power lesbians. (No matter what Che calls herself, she is a gross bull dyke.)

MPK is the problem. That is clear. Fire him. He is a hack.

Have there ever been gay characters on SatC who had personalities outside of being gay? I'm just wondering, because I can't think of any. There was also always this feeling of "gay men being the perfect accessory for straight women" in the show.

r541 that's always been a criticism about SATC. I don't think we ever saw any "regular" gay guys who weren't basically minstrel shows.

Is there an actual nice and redeemable character on SATC or AJLT (well, except for the new ones we don't know so much about)? A nice gay character would look out of place. And it would most certainly not make any sense for any nice gay to be associated with someone as shallow and self-centered as Carrie (hello, all eyes and ears on me! My husband of 15 years has just died!).

Harry is nice and so is Lily, Smith, Magda, Enid, the bi guy Carrie dated, Charlotte's brother, the Australian gay guy, Natacha, Wallis, Big's first wife Barbara, a bunch of the guys Sam dated, Maria, the model Derek....I thought they were all likeable and normal.

Magda was a religious freak who pushed for the kid to be exposed to religion at a very young age. And guest stars don't count, since they are not around very long (proving my point, actually).

Everyone’s exposed to something at a very young age, so that’s a stupid point.

I can’t believe Miranda would get fingered and then sleep with Che one time and be ready to say, “I think I’m in love with you.” Miranda is not an idiot teenager. They are really doing a disservice to her character.

[quote] Everyone’s exposed to something at a very young age, so that’s a stupid point.

Fuck you. She wanted to push her religious beliefs on an infant. Any acutal gay would know that that's fucked up and not ok.

No, fuck you.

Can anybody describe Miranda's nude scene? Did we see boobs or bush?

Nipple

r546 / r549 = Religious Freak stinking up the place. Cheryl and her stinking pussy?

In the promo for ep. 8 cliCHÉ tells Miranda she's not a homewrecker. What did she expect was going to happen when Miranda told her she was falling in love with her when they were doing the gross nipple bumping lez-lez? NOW she sets her boundaries?

R550, just boobs. Not as pancake and gravity-fed divergent as I would have expected at that age.

A series of pulleys and hoists was employed to elevate the tits.

CGI removed them.

People are evolving in these turbulent times and that's exciting. Many viewers weren't ready for a vital, modern character like Che - but once they get to know her they're going to love her as much as we do! So get ready for Che in the fourth chair every week in exciting, diverse and relatable season two of And Just Like Them!

Thanks guys, wanted to prepare myself mentally before watching the "love scene". Amazing how much they've dumbed Miranda down

Shit! Fuck! We so screwed the pronouns in R556! If anyone is triggered, there is help out there. We are fired.

The minority characters, like the male characters all are underdeveloped. Che is not vital nor is she modern, she's just a cartoon. AS someone else mentioned, the professor, would have been a more interesting romantic partner---she offers many opportunities to be like Miranda (a lawyer, a driven professional). Miranda has things she wants like a child (granted not a model child) and has not had her struggles. They both could be surprised and ambivalent about their attraction. Plus the lawyer is pretty and chic in a way that fits the show. Che is simply the lefty version of Dan Bongino.

Is James Remar (Richard Wright) the only actor to ever show his dick on the show?

I couldn’t help but wonder, who here has tickets to see SIP in Plaza Suite?

Why would anyone want to see her in a dated sitcom-ish play, when we already have her in a stale dramedy on tv?

I think SJP should just own it and play every part as Carrie Bradshaw.

Lady MacBeth, Margot Channing, Catwoman, Alex Forrest, Baby Jane...

Squeal!

Karen Pittman, who plays the prof, is a really talented actor. Shame she’s wasted here.

I think most everyone involved will emerge from this season with a stench (which hopefully isn’t as bad as Che’s stanky pussy).

Great job, MPK. Everybody was crying big ole crocodile tears when Willie Garson died, yet no one has the proper respect to write him off sympathetically. I don't care he never got to film his last scene. He deserved much more than how he's been cruelly thrown away and forgotten. What? Only one funeral per season?

Yea the way they wrote off Samantha and Stanford is very distasteful and shows a lack of creativity

I realize they had to do rewrites in real time, but it’s just as easy to insert some excuses for why he’s too busy to be with them as it is to send Stanford away. Just put the character on ice for a bit before giving him the exit he deserves, and what with the actor being dead, it’s not like they can bring Stanford back down the road to complete his story. MPK sucks.

This popped up in my feed and it's a good look at the show and the disservice to the characters.

Hey, it’s Che Diaz!

I couldn't help but wonder...........

Karen Pittman needs to find herself a new agent R564.

The dreadful writers of The Morning Show aren’t doing her any favors either.

I feel like the Professor and her husband are going through a really slow roll-out of an 80s style spin-off. The scene where Miranda runs into them at the farmer's market was very much like when characters from the parent show appear on an 80s spin off.

I keep expecting an Empty Nests type episode where our main characters barely appear, in favor of the cast of the spin-off:

Coming in 2023: Infertility & the City, or The Barren Professor, or Eggless in Gaza.

I am hoping at the very least that the Professor will punch her pregnant friend in the nose for telling them that the "have to have a baby."

They'd do well to take LTW and the prof and Seema and give them their own show and leave the Facts of Life Gals on And Just Like Che.

They need to address Kristen’s weight gain like they did with Delta Burke on DW. Or at least that she can’t find designer clothes when she is approaching a 1X. She’s at least a 12 now. I’ve heard high end stores don’t carry anything above a 10. Maybe things have changed, though.

We cater to all body sizes.

One of the biggest disservice’s they did to the Miranda’s storyline and maybe they will cover it coming up is Steve version of events. Right now he’s a walking eunuch. Steve always loved Miranda unconditionally (with the exception of that stupid affair in the movie) and she always in the end realized what she had and I hope to God that’s where they are headed. As someone in a 20 year relationship sex fades and the intensity it’s there anymore. I’m going thru something very similar right now. I would never be so cavalier as to throw my relationship away for some cheap sex. I certainly hope this isn’t where they are headed. If this is the message they are sending, I’m seriously done.

Whoever is styling Davis should be shot. She is wearing clothing that is too tight and what's up with the belts? She needs clothes that loosely skim her contours.

Seeing Charlotte in older age, really highlights how vapid she was/is.

Kristen Davis has changed so much now. Her face has morphed that it is joker-like. It’s noticeable that she has difficulty enunciating her lines. Is it all due to bad plastic surgery?

She’s also gained weight as others have stated above.

Certainly not here to drag her down, but when it impacts her acting, it is distracting. And the whole fashion.....appearance-focused aspect of SATC/AJLT becomes a different animal while watching her.

Perhaps they’ll address it head on by writing in episodes of weight gain and poor plastic surgery?

Or not. Perhaps it is too close to home?

It would actually be helpful - and realistic - to address the elephant (or joker) in the room.

I wonder if Kristen Davis is on pain medication (dealing with pain caused by her recent plastic surgery)? Some side effect could be retaining more water.

Now that would be an interesting storyline. Suffering for beauty / looking young again, and questioning if it's really worth it?

Did anyone stay part 7?

This sums up how I feel.

You demanded it! Ok no one demanded it. Part 7 below.

R580, as other posters have said above, there are really some interesting subjects AJLT could address:

-Carrie’s grief and a support group

- The VERY changed appearance of Charlotte (weight/poor plastic surgery)

- The husbands of Charlotte and Miranda: fleshing them out as real humans rather than reducing them to essentially, eunuchs. Share the perception of the poster above that the character of Steve has been treated abysmally.

- Getting over the bizarre adulation of the character Che. What is up with her being elevated as some kind of revered figure? Her comedy is not humorous, she is unattractive, and she is a pothead that has no memory as a result. The continual advancement of this character is mind-boggling.

Than you, R583.

Kristen is still probably smaller than the average American woman, but high fashion is not built for figures like hers. They’d be better off dressing her in flattering clothes rather than making her look stupid in couture.

Do you suppose all this dislike of the reboot actually penetrates the sweet smelling upper echelons where they dwell?

This is more of a money grab than a creative endeavor, r566…

R588 Because most of TV shows are about artistic expression, not $$...

I'll tolerate a Thread #7, but you bitches need to mix it up a bit.

The past 6 threads can be summarized by:

-Che is awful

-Kristen is fat and had bad work done

-Miranda and Steve seem like idiots

-Carrie is self absorbed

-We miss Kim Cattrall

-They did a disservice to Stanford's storyline

-This show sucks in general

Can we find some different things to say for this next thread?

out

of

its

fucking

misery

!

can't

GONE BABY,

you

GONE

see?

no?

mercy

kill

this

,

muriel

!