Why didn't Joan Crawford try her own television series? So many of her contemporaries did.

She didn't need the money.

[quote] Why didn't Joan Crawford try her own television series?

Because producers were not some of her faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaans!

She tried, bless her.

One of the movies she made with Diane Baker was a TV pilot. Not Straitjacket.

Why are you comparing me to other actresses? Why must EVERYTHING be a [italic]contest[/italic]?

[Quote] Had the pilot been turned into a television series, Crawford would have most likely made an occasional guest appearance (she's listed as a "Guest Star" in the credits) but leave the primary responsibility to Paul Burke and younger cast members to keep the story moving along.

Sounds like Joanie was smart about her ability to work a TV schedule at her advanced age.

If you're curious about her pilot, "Della"...

Too DRUNK

The mind boggles at the thought of Joan remaining alive into the 1980s when prime time soaps were at their hottest. She would have snapped Stanwyck's neck in order to play Constance Colby.

Ryan Murphy should do "Trog: Origin Story" as his next mini-series. Miss Dunaway may be available...

I wonder if Crawford was bearding for Steele? She was his only marriage, late in life. I just can't imagine them having sex.

Joan was better value than Jane Wyman. If she'd been younger and in better health, she'd have made "Falcon Crest" a bigger hit.

She had another pilot "The Joan Crawford Show," in 1959 according to wikipedia. R9 The Della pilot is basically the pilot for a 1980s primetime soap in the sixties.

Bette Davis tried several times to get a show, as well. Sadly when she finally landed one, Hotel, she had the stroke and had to quit after the pilot only to be replaced by Anne Baxter, in an example of life imitating art.

OMG! She would have been great as Edith Bunker. Sweet, empathetic and she looked fantastic in a house dress.

Joan on a Bob Hope TV special, where she does a sketch that will give you an idea of how she would've done on a a sitcom. Go to 11:30 mark.

Sorry, I meant 11:40 mark.

Haven't you bitches ever heard of The Secret Storm?

R17 Out of respect, Ms. Crawford, we were going to ignore that.

Because (I think...) she was a C-U-N-T.

I wonder if Crawford was bearding for Steele? She was his only marriage, late in life. I just can't imagine them having sex.

He was married and had children from a previous marriage. Though I can't picture them having sex either

There's no video of Joan's turn in The Secret Storm. Just a few photos and audio boots.

R21 Which is crazy. I know soaps were regularly wiped back then, but there are the odd kinescopes of soaps from back then. I can't believe that NO ONE managed to save a copy of something that surreal, if for nothing else than to pass around in the industry and laugh at? I wonder if William Paley or someone equally powerful made sure they were destroyed.

They didn't save the Merman Granny Get Your Gun either.

R23 That is a travesty, but it was video taped. While it is missing and presumed lost, there is still the possibility that a version exists somewhere in the world. The world should be able to witness Merman's Annie. They also should've done a recording of the Reba one. Probably the two best Annie Oakleys in the history of Broadway and we only have audio of Merman's take on the role and fragmentary evidence of Reba's.

We have an idea of the Merman Granny performance.

R25 That was about a decade after her last Broadway run in AGYG and say what you will the old broad could still belt better than anyone.

"A decade" after, R26? Try THREE decades.

R27 The performance that was taped and is missing was from her 1966 run. R25's clip was from 1975.

I have questions about the Bob Hope skit.

1) It's the last round of because she has "run out of mayonnaise" - the last round of cards? the last round of popcorn? They put mayonnaise on popcorn?

2) Where can I get that enormous candelabra applique in resin, on Joan and Bob's wall?

Joan would've been great in "Flamingo Road."

When she did a guest starring role on Lucy's show in the late 1960's she seemed to be incoherent and high on booze. Lucy was so fed up with her that she wanted her replaced. But Joan pulled herself together and gave a very good performance at the last moment.

Because she was Box Office Poison.

Who's the lady in pink beside Morgan Fairchild?

R33, Barbara Rush

Imagine Joan on "Paper Dolls" as Racine, the head of the agency, smacking around all those teen models.

[italic]Racine's been in more beds than a hotel breakfast tray...[/italic]

Joan would've picked up where she left off.

Joan would be a great host for a competition show like Hollywood's Next Top Starlet. Or Young Homemaker of the Year. So completely phony and piss elegant and unctuous.

With her mania for cleaning, they should have cast her as Alice on The Brady Bunch.

They could have written a part for her on Peyton Place.

Although the full performance of Ethel's 1966 Annie appears to be long gone, they company did "I've Got the Sun in the Morning..." on the Sullivan show and it's on youtube in color. There's also some home recorded audio there from the full 1966 version. And there's this:

CBS should've built a primetime soap centering on her "The Best of Everything" character, Amanda Farrow.

[quote]r23 They didn't save the Merman Granny Get Your Gun either.

[quote]r24 That is a travesty

Write your senator NOW!

Years ago it was hotly debated on the Datalounge whether Crawford would have appeared on "The Love Boat" given the chance. There even were some scenarios. "Autumn Love at Sea" was the one I remember.

If they had only let her do "Our Miss Chadwick".

Joan on TV

There was a lot of video that wasn’t saved. Johnny Carson was pissed when he found out they didn’t save the first year of The Tonight Show.

Thankfully Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz spent the money to have I Love Lucy filmed. You look at some of those 1950s kinescopes and thank the comedy gods that the chocolate factory and Vitavetavegamin are in pristine condition.

And...

“And One was Loyal”

Ironic.

^^ or is the word “apt”?

Carson found out the first several years, not just first year, of his shows hadn't been preserved and he thereafter had it written into his contract that it would be and he would get a personal copy of every show.

[quote]When she did a guest starring role on Lucy's show in the late 1960's she seemed to be incoherent and high on booze. Lucy was so fed up with her that she wanted her replaced. But Joan pulled herself together and gave a very good performance at the last moment.

Well, in Joan's defense Lucy was a real bitch during rehearsals.

R41 Funny that ABC adapted it into a daytime soap, after her run on The Secret Storm. I wonder if anyone considered calling her. ABC did have Dark Shadows on the schedule at the time starring Joan Bennett, who had earned one of the very rare soap Emmy nominations, prior to the Daytime Emmys. They had to figure she'd get one just because of her name.

The exterior set of that Crawford/Zane Grey episode is the original Tara set from Gone With the Wind. It was finally torn down not long after the episode was shot.

Thanks, r34. She got to climb Jeffrey Hunter. Lucky.

R53 it was dismantled and sent to GA, where it has languished in a barn owned by the ex-wife of Senator/Gov. Talmadge. She has died but it is still in the barn. I'm surprised because for years I thought it was the house in The Big Valley, they really look an awful lot alike.

Crawford's "acting" in Della seems mostly about looking vacantly around her. They must have troweled on the make-up and done that wiring stiff to tie back the wrinkles. At least she didn't wear linebacker shoulder pads. In that Bob Hope Show she has that Groucho Marx as Joan Crawford look that Dunaway had in "Mommie Dearest".

[quote] At least she didn't wear linebacker shoulder pads.

Lucille didn't need them!

R55, wasn't the front door from the Tara set installed somewhere in Atlanta? A department store or a public building? I'm too tired to search.

Yes, she allowed it to be removed and restored it is at the Road to Tara Museum.

She could have done one of those Victoria Barkley/Barbara Stanwyck, Angela Channing/Jane Wyman, or Miss Ellie/Barbara Bel Geddes type roles. But she may have been too addicted to - um - Pepsi to do a regular TV series.

She would have been great as Jessica Fletcher.

Thank you so much for your concern, my dear, dear fans...

But during that time I was so happily married to my husband Alfred Steele, President of PepsiCo International

and so very busy providing a happy, stable home for my family

Joan Crawford as Miss Marple?

Box office poison!

Joan's marriage to Al Steele lasted all of 3 years and 11 months. And she was broke when he died.

[quote] She would have been great as Jessica Fletcher.

No she wouldn't have been. She didn't have any warmth.

[quote]1) It's the last round of because she has "run out of mayonnaise" - the last round of cards? the last round of popcorn? They put mayonnaise on popcorn?

It's a reference to her lady mayo, which she squirted all over her ham sandwich!

R66 She would've been perfect for the fan theory that Jessica Fletcher is really a serial killer.

Mildred Pierce had no warmth?!

She would've been great as sex-hungry Mrs. Roper on Three's Company. She would've been better than Audra Lindley, and she and Normal Fell would've had terrific chemistry.

^^^She would have been hitting on Jack, Janet AND Chrissie.

She would have been hitting Jack, Janet AND Chrissie.

R46, I Love Lucy was FILM, not Kinescopes

[quote]She would have snapped Stanwyck's neck in order to play Constance Colby

Joanie and Stany were close friends, Joan would never do that...but she was not above begging Barbara to get her on the show. Perhaps she could have taken over the matriarch role after Stanwyck left (she thought The Colbys was a piece of shit).

Sorry, R46, I misread your post.

[quote] [R46], I Love Lucy was FILM, not Kinescopes

That was the point I was making.

R75 see R74

Joan would have been great on BJ & the Bear. Lady truck driver on the roads of America riding with a chimp and bedding a different woman at every stop.

R29 Also wondered about the mayonnaise and loved the candelabra. .

[quote]Joan's marriage to Al Steele lasted all of 3 years and 11 months. And she was broke when he died.

And after Mr. Steele's sudden death, I became the International Brand Ambassador, traveling the world on behalf of PepsiCo International.

It was exhausting, of course, but I felt I had to continue my husband's work.

Joan off camera:

Lottie there is a cunt in this room.

Will you please come and show it out!

[quote]Joan would have been great on BJ & the Bear.

She would have been confused by the title.

[quote]She would have been confused by the title.

Dear Producers:

While my work with PepsiCo International prevents me from accepting your offer at this time.

My dear friend Bette Davis is quite good at this type of thing and is apparently desperate for work.

She would've been great on 3's Company.

"Dammit, the Regal Beagle is MY place!"

Unlike Davis, she minded losing marquee status, so she would have been unlikely to have played a grandmother of a major character unless it was a Very Special Episode where she could star.

R79: She had overspent on their new apartment, she had to do something to make money.

More info on Alfred Steele. Apparently Joan was his third wife.

Al Steele was a graduate of Northwestern University.

I do believe that Joan loved Al.

[quote]I do believe that Joan loved Al.

Why of course Mr. Steele and I adored each other.

And why not?

I was a very sensual woman, who needed a man for myself, and my young children needed a father.

[quote] I do believe that Joan loved Al.

I fully believe that, as well. Love takes many forms. I'm sure she loved how he worshiped and adored her. But, I think she loved how he finally gave her real status. She had money and fame on her own, but he gave her status in the business and financial high society that really means something. A kid like her growing up in poverty at that time would have dreamt of becoming a movie star to gain a fortune, then bag a president of a company to really gain status and security. I'm sure she felt like she had finally gotten her Prince.

Did she lust after him, possibly, but I suspect not.

I loved him and I slapped him!

We know, Joan.

I love that scene, R92. Joan at her very best!

I'm certain Joan seduced Jack Carson. I think most actors he worked with were very fond of him.

He and Joan have great chemistry in "Mildred Pierce".

To address OP, most of these women had very mixed experiences on series tv.....

Barbara Stanwyck---failed anthology series, then The Big Valley and then prime time soap opera that even she wanted to forget Bette Davis---a pilot as bad as Joan's and when she finally got a series, she had a stroke and had to leave the show Jean Arthur---One 13 week series and then she returned to more or less seclusion Loretta Young---A big success followed by a big, forgotten failure Jane Wyman---Always being confused with Jane Wyatt, but two successful shows Judy Garland---Her variety show didn't last a season and was a disaster start to finish Donna Reed---Iconic sitcom which she ultimately came to hate; had trouble restarting her career--miscast and mistreated on Dallas; did tv roles with Efrem Zimbalist, Jr which must have been misery by itself Eve Arden---Iconic sitcom that moved from radio, then a failed series in the late 50s and the execrable "Mothers in Law" for two seasons; at least she had the occasional guest role and reprised her school teacher character in "Grease". Lucille Ball---four series, three were successful, all were laden with endlessly recycled schtick

The moral......big stars often have regrets or little success on the small screens and often don't leave it with their reputations intact. Joan's later roles like Trog did enough to tarnish her reputation. She didn't need tv.

Better formatting

To address OP, most of these women had very mixed experiences on series tv.....

Barbara Stanwyck---failed anthology series, then The Big Valley and then prime time soap opera that even she wanted to forget

Bette Davis---a pilot as bad as Joan's and when she finally got a series, she had a stroke and had to leave the show

Jean Arthur---One 13 week series and then she returned to more or less seclusion Loretta Young---A big success followed by a big, forgotten failure

Jane Wyman---Always being confused with Jane Wyatt, but two successful shows Judy Garland---Her variety show didn't last a season and was a disaster start to finish

Donna Reed---Iconic sitcom which she ultimately came to hate; had trouble restarting her career--miscast and mistreated on Dallas; did tv roles with Efrem Zimbalist, Jr which must have been misery by itself

Eve Arden---Iconic sitcom that moved from radio, then a failed series in the late 50s and the execrable "Mothers in Law" for two seasons; at least she had the occasional guest role and reprised her school teacher character in "Grease".

Lucille Ball---four series, three were successful, all were laden with endlessly recycled schtick

The moral......big stars often have regrets or little success on the small screens and often don't leave it with their reputations intact. Joan's later roles like Trog did enough to tarnish her reputation. She didn't need tv.

Anyone catch the gay joke in #15's clip (at the 12:55 mark)? Joan is not amused.

Bette was at a point where she would take just about anything offered. I'm surprised she didn't end up on a daytime soap opera.

If Joan had lived she would have probably been on one of the nighttime shows, like Dallas or Falcon's Landing or something. I actually like the pilot to Della.

Ann Sothern - Private Secretary, The Ann Sothern Show

Ann Sheridan - Pistols 'n' Petticoats

Joan Bennett - Too Young to Go Steady, Dark Shadows

Ida Lupino - Mr. Adams and Eve

She might have seen TV work as a drop in status. The films she made at the end of her life were total shit, but they were not TV.

R99: You're forgetting Ann Sothern in "My Mother the Car", one of the worst shows ever. Her other two shows were basically the same series, with a lot of the same cast members.

Ann Sheridan's show was not a hit and she died during its run.

Lupino's show lasted for part of one season. She had more success as a tv director and by some reports, she preferred being behind the camera, although she did a lot of tv guest shots.

More proof that success eluded or was tarnished for most film actresses in tv. Joan might have left us more camp but there is a good chance that she would have been set up for ridicule in tv.

R100: She was willing to make a glossy but disappointing pilot and act in a soap, as well as guest with Lucy. It couldn't have been that much of a comedown.

[quote] Bette was at a point where she would take just about anything offered. I'm surprised she didn't end up on a daytime soap opera.

She had already done a weekly radio soap, Whispering Streets.

In case you newcomers don't know, Jack Carson is a long standing DL heartthrob. I don't get it, but he is.

I love Stanwyck's 1960-61 two season anthology series. It needed to be an hour so the stories could be fleshed out more, they usually simplified and rushed the ending. But it's Stanwyck, and I love anything Stanwyck. Unfortunately, The Big Valley is dreck and unwatchable imho.

Would Angie have hired Joan for Murder, She Wrote?

R105: Angie was a B-level contractee at MGM. I doubt that they ever travelled in the same circles. Donna Reed, another MGM B-type had former MGM cronies on her show but never true A-listers (unless you count Esther Williams as one, and I don't). Plus Joan was dead by the time of MSW and long out of the public eye in the years before her demise.

Joan Crawford was a Movie Star. She probably wasn't as enthusiastic about doing television as some of the other female Stars from her film generation.

I've always thought television is a step down for film Stars who had huge careers on the silver screen. Television takes up a lot of time, while a film is shot in just a few weeks or two months etc.

I think one of the great things about being a film Star is. You work for a limited amount of time & you collect a generous salary & then you can go back to living your jet setting life and carry on with your social life etc. I'd never want to go from film Stardom to television. Television is way to confining in my opinion.

But then, television is a better schedule for some people. Especially if they're married and have children. I guess the same could be said for film Stars too. But some people are just natural born film Stars and just belong on the silver screen.

Joan Crawford was one of those people who belonged on the silver screen.

Jack Carson had a nice body under all those baggy suits.

Imagine Joan in a bad wig with a bad British accent as Alexis’ aunt on Dynasty. Joan Collins and John Forsythe would have despised her.

Or if she played Mrs.Garrett on Facts of Life. She would slap the shit out of Tootie and Blair when they acted up.

[quote]the original Tara set from Gone With the Wind. It was finally torn down not long after the episode was shot.

Tara was disassembled in roughly 1959 by Lucy and Desi.

[quote]The most durable portions were salvaged, including windows, shutters, doors, porch posts and railings, cornice, and other elements. “Tara” was removed at no expense to the studio by Southern Attractions, Inc., presided by Julian M. Foster, an Atlanta-based real estate developer who had envisioned the set to be reconstructed on 300 acres of forested land in Northern Georgia, recreating the Hollywood “Tara” plantation in its entirety. Foster’s vision never came to fruition due to complications arising from copyright protections by the Margaret Mitchell family.

A little more history and photographs at link.

All of Helen Lawson's shows failed but her series of annual Christmas variety specials are legendary.

<- many of the famous GWTW scenes were actually a clever use of matte paintings on glass.

[quote]Eve Arden---Iconic sitcom that moved from radio, then a failed series in the late 50s

I wasn't aware Our Miss Brooks was a flop, r96.

^Never mind, r96, I didn't know she had a second '50s series. What was it?

[quote]I doubt that they ever travelled in the same circles.

What are you talking about? The bitch worked on my hair!

“My Way of Life”, the first of its kind reality show detailing the daily life and adventures of the Ultimate Movie Star, Miss Joan Crawford.

[quote]Joan Crawford was a Movie Star. She probably wasn't as enthusiastic about doing television...

Joan Crawford was delusional. If she wanted to work, if she was sober enough to work, there was ONLY television.

[quote]Joan Crawford was delusional.

There will be none of that on this thread R117.

R56, I'm watching Della on youtube. She's in a scene in a living room with a younger guy. The difference between their closeups is cracking me up. When the guy has a closeup it's crystal clear. When it switches to her it gets all hazy, as though they're filming through smoke. Even with all the makeup they practically had to put vaseline on the screen for her.

She made at least a movie per year in the 50s, plus she was married and living in New York. Why would she want the grind of a series?

Though she did do several guest-starring roles.

R119, I mentioned that same phenomenon in the "Strait-Jacket" thread. Every close-up of Joan was hazy. It was distracting.

She could've had a daytime talk show like Virginia Graham or Dinah. Cooking tips, housekeeping tips, and of course, parenting skills!

Yeah R121, it's so obvious it looks like she's in a different dimension. After a certain point I bet she had it in her contracts that all her close-ups had to be soft focus.

Did Joan get along with Miriam Hopkins?

When would they have had any interaction, r124?

Someone said Crawford was broke.

Not true at all. Joan left behind a $2 million dollar estate in 1977. And she left the twins nearly $100K a peice.

That's not a broke person. I bet Joan was frugal with her money for the most part. Especially since she came from adject poverty. Having a film career in Hollywood gave her financial security and stabilized her in life. A doubt if she'd fuck up her finances after coming from the childhood she came from.

Joan downsized in later years, which is the smart thing to do. Especially if you're not going to be working any longer. But she still had a comfortable apartment, befitting someone who was formally a major film Star.

So no! Joan Crawford was not broke after walking away from Hollywood.

[quote] But Joan pulled herself together and gave a very good performance at the last moment.

Joan was visibly drunk on the show. She was slurring.

[quote]she came from adject poverty

Oh, dear. "Adject," ironically, is not an adjectIVE.

I know, r127, hardly "a very good performance".

Some of you have little knowledge of old movies, it seems. The soft focus close up on a female star was a common occurence, and not just on old women.

[quote]Someone said Crawford was broke. Not true at all. Joan left behind a $2 million dollar estate in 1977

Joan was broke as in not liquid. You can't eat real estate for breakfast.

R130 So Stars were allowed to bring their own personal Vanity on into a film scene?

Dosen't that defeat the purpose of losing yourself to the character in a film?

R131 She had some cash. She left her daughters some money. She also had assets too.

That's not broke.

R130, in old movies, including Joan's, the film grain and focus on the leading ladies matched the others in the scene, so there was a seamless continuity in the quality. In Joan's later movies, the close-ups absolutely do not match in focus and film stock. They are grainy and so soft focused that it is distracting.

Joan and Al Steele lived in the penthouse at 2 E. 70th St. which is on 5th Ave. You can imagine how much that must've cost. No wonder she had money troubles after he died. She eventually moved out to a smaller apartment several blocks away.

[quote]Bette was at a point where she would take just about anything offered. I'm surprised she didn't end up on a daytime soap opera.

Bette Davis supported her leeching family for nearly her entire life. She was always broke because they were all completely financially dependent on her.

Star Trek used soft focus close ups all the time on the glamorous guest stars.

Margaret could relate, r136.

That was on Bette.

Who said it wasn't?

R134 exactly in some of Joan’s later films it looks like she filmed her closeups underwater while everyone else was on dry land. Match it for everyone in the scene or forget it.

Silly boys.

Joan would've wiped the floor with Lana. Lana was purely a Hollywood concoction, totally fake and artificial. Joan was too to an extent, but she could act. Lana was just so bad she's good in most of her films. Having said that, I thought she gave her best performance in her supporting role in "Peyton Place." She's actually quite in some of her scenes.

R143 - that's a very good put-down - "She's actually quite in some of her scenes".

Joan also used every lighting trick in the book to hide her aging appearance.

[quote]Joan was broke as in not liquid. You can't eat real estate for breakfast.

Most of Joan's assets were liquid. Vodka, gin, bourbon, scotch -- all liquid.

I love Joan Crawford for many reasons. She came from nothing and used what skills she had to make it to the top. She created a character and she played that character to the very end. She liked the booze, she liked the boys and she liked being a star. She was flawed and had her demons, how could you not with her background, but when the camera came on she was all star.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The rumors about Joan and Lucy have been around for decades but Jeanette MacDonald? Wow, never heard that.

The article says that Desi Arnaz was another of Adler's clients. Just how did Lucy and Desi rerally meet?

I thought Lucy was common knowledge.

Too Many Girls, r149.

The Polly Adler story should be the next HBO series. I'd watch the hell of that.

Lucy was actually rumored to have work as a prostitute in NYC when she was a supposedly a "model" for Hattie Carnegie

Lucy told friends that she would be invited to dinners during the Depression where she and other young models would find cash payments under their dinner plates

And then there was the mysterious story of Lucy being injured in an accident and losing the ability to walk for a while. But she went home to Jamestown where she was miraculously cured.

Some people interpreted this story as Lucy developing sepsis from a botched abortion.

That why a lot of those gals had trouble conceiving. It took Lucy a long time and many tries. It never happened for Joan. It was all those half-assed abortions.

[quote]she and other young models would find cash payments under their dinner plates

If the women found cash under their dinner plates, it meant they had been selected by a customer for the evening.

Working for the studios, even MGM, was prostitution

Women under contract slept with the men the studio told them to sleep with

They even married the men the studio told them to marry

Lucy herself said you went to the parties the studio told you to go to

and you went home when the studio rep told you to go home

She also had a long running affair with Pandro Berman (head of RKO) when she was an RKO contract player.

Polly Adler wrote an autobiography in the early 1950s, A House Is Not a Home. It was filmed 10 years later with Shelley Winters as Adler and a young Racquel Welch as one of her girls. You know that the book and film must have been highly sanitized accounts during those years. This new book sounds really trashy, just the way I like them.

Lucy was old to have gotten Rheumatic fever, that disease usually happens between 5-14, though wikipedia claims 20% of people first develop it as an adult.

There were different versions of the source of Lucy's mysterious illness.

It was sometimes reported that she was in a car accident, and that her mother DeeDee applied hot compresses and miraculously cured Lucy's paralysis.

Shelley knew how to pick 'em...

R73: Neither Stanwyck nor Crawford hadmany really close friends, let alone were close to each other. Crawford was basically a recluse at the end. Both were estranged from children. Stanwyck was never a contract player--she was independent in a way that Crawford never was. The wiki entry that asserts their friendship makes no sense given other information about either one of them.

Listen to the first few episodes of TCM's current "Lucy" podcast for coverage of her wicked ways.

Stanwyck was also reclusive.

Did they both like bread pudding?

r162...the Eder tapes

[quote]R126 The wiki entry that asserts their friendship makes no sense given other information about either one of them.

Um, they were neighbors. Barb would regularly escape to Joan’s house when beaten by her husband Frank Fay.

That prolly when the lickin’ an lappin’ started.

That was in the 30s. It didn't mean they were close in the 60s or 70s. If she was close to Joan, she probably would have gotten her on her anthology show or The Big Valley.

They were friends, r168, not bosom buddies.

If I didn't know any better, I would think this was a gay couple and a lesbian couple.

Ruby during her FOLLIES days...

Ruby Stevens and Lucille LeSueur

It's friendship, friendship, just a perfect blendship.

When other friendships are soon forgot, ours will still be hot.

"Keeping Up With Joan Crawford."

She didn’t do TV because she was A MOVIE STAH!

Joan spent all her free time being a warm and loving mother.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the accusations of that fat, greedy, ungrateful bitch of a daughter Christina!

Joan used only the finest covered padded hangers to beat the children.

[quote] but never true A-listers (unless you count Esther Williams as one, and I don't)

Esther Williams was about as A list as you can get. Do you think A list means only a serious dramatic actress?

I'm surprised Joan never did a cameo on her pal Eve Arden's series, Our Miss Brooks.

She'd have been great on "The Comeback."

[quote] When the guy has a closeup it's crystal clear. When it switches to her it gets all hazy, as though they're filming through smoke.

Do you remember the Barbara Walters specials, she always looked hazy and when she was interviewing an older actress it was like they were conducting the interview in a sauna.

Doris Day was a top movie star who did a TV series against her will. Her husband had signed her to do the show and it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. When her husband died she discovered that he and a crooked lawyer had squandered all her millions and she was almost broke. The TV series made her financially solvent again and many years later she died a wealthy woman.

R181 ..........