Jumping ship: I’m quitting my teaching career Monday morning.

OP my mom, who was a teacher in a public school, retired twenty years ago with the same complaints about lack of support from the administration, no funding for things like air conditioning units, increasingly aggressive parents, etc. I really wish the public school system was better managed in the US although I'm sure it is bad in some private and charter schools too.

Good for you, OP. I think the whole thing — teaching, security, janitorial — should be turned over to parents.

They bitch about "public schools" all the time. Let them do better. Let them have some skin in the game.

This makes me sad to hear, but only that things have gotten so bad. I’m sorry, OP, that you’ve been thru so much.

And WOW to that 1 in 4 statistic. That is really sad and says everything about the state of things in this country.

Get out while you can. I read somewhere the average burnout is 3 to 5 years. Any longer then that and they tend to get wacky. You know the type.

OP, what grade(s)/age level do you teach?

We haven’t given teachers decent pay or support for years.

So who’s left to do the teaching?

Well, OP sounds more like you have decided to take advantage of the current lack of workers situation and stick it to your employer along with all the other looking for a free ride losers out there.

OP, what can parents do to help? My husband and I bought out our kids’ teachers’ amazon wishlists and I send an email every couple weeks asking how we can support them in the classroom. I want to do all I can to help. It’s got to be such a stressful job.

I know 2 teachers who have retired in the last couple of years. One was in his early 70s,and the sweetest person youd ever want to meet . Since he was such a great teacher,they transferred him from the school he had been at for years into a hell hole with a 95% black student rate. He barely made it the entire year,and hes still very sad about leaving the profession he loved so much . They were absolutely vicious to that sweet old man. The other was a lady who had taught for 34 years,but finally had to throw in the towel. They switched her from teaching 1st grade to 6th graders. She said the majority of kids had zero respect for adults and zero desire to learn. She couldnt even make them put their phones down,and they werent even supposed to have them out. She got zero backing from the principal,and after getting her face spat on she gave notice. She too misses teaching but wouldnt go back for double the salary.

[quote] I have not had a single day off since I began the school year in August.

You mean after you had FOUR MONTHS OFF before you started again in August?

R7 STFU you Jesus Freak on another thread. Your judgy comments sure don't sound very Christian.

I don’t mean to lash out but that’s what you get for indoctrinating our kids with the racist social poison of CSN!

For anyone experiencing frustration with work, try caring less. PRACTICE caring less. Make it an active part of your day to remember, it's not your problem. If you want a day off, take a day off. It's the people who try to control things or keep pushing for improvements that drive themselves crazy. Keep the job you have, wait it out, collect a paycheck and interview elsewhere. Quit when you know what you're doing next. You know you have co-workers who don't give a shit and barely do anything--be more like them.

1 in 4 teachers surveyed are planning on leaving the field of teaching at the end of this school year.

OP where is this survey?

For R14

The whole 3-4 months off thing for teachers is BS. You maybe get 2 months off—the beginning of June is wrapping up the school year and packing up your room for the supposed summer “deep cleaning”—or unnecessary classroom shuffle that requires you to move your classroom yet again. The first part of August is prepping for the new school year. And any teacher would trade those two months for all the hours of overtime they put in during the school year.

Get out while you can. No kid or parent is worth the sacrifice to your health or sanity. Anyone who thinks otherwise has watched too many movies about teachers.

👆Ellen

“ You mean after you had FOUR MONTHS OFF before you started again in August?‘

I hardly had 4 months off. School ended mid-June and we are expected to attend teacher trainings and inservices over the summer which we are not compensated for and prohibits flexibility in summer travel or obtaining a second job. Our contracts have us return to school mid August to set up classrooms, attend orientations, and more required trainings. All I do all summer is think of school and complete professional development and trainings for no pay.

OP where do you teach?

I quit teaching college two years ago. It was rough for awhile as I had no easily transferable skills or experience and I had to do some retraining to go into healthcare, but I feel really good now and much happier than I was.

You're doing the right thing, OP.

I met a teacher recently. We had really good chemistry. He shoved his leg between my thighs. It was hot. We haven’t been able to meet. He sounds super burnt out. I worry about him.

[quote] that’s what you get for indoctrinating our kids with the racist social poison of CSN!

Crosby, Stills and Nash are racists?

I was in h.s. back when a teacher could stride up and grab a hank of your hair in front of God and everybody. Or send you to the Principal's office for a whack you wouldn't forget. Then when you got home dad was waiting for you...

You didn't mess around after that.

Good luck, OP. Glad you’ve found the courage to quit what makes you miserable. I hope you find something you love.

Do what you need to do, OP. Take care of yourself.

i disagree with that r6.

You always hear it but I read the salaries of teachers in my old school. They make like 60k to 70k and a lot of them are married to other teachers or the woman have husbands who work.

That kind of money goes really far in that town.

Is teaching in a private school much better?

The pay and overall contracts vary widely.

I have a friend who teaches in a wealthy suburb. She has a fantastic contract, support from families and administration, and is happy. Every holiday and at the end of the school year she receives hundreds of dollars in gift cards.

Another friend works in an inner city school, with a bare bones contract, little to no family and admin support, and is emotionally drained. Every year I buy glue sticks, markers, tissues, etc to help prepare her class. These little children come in starved for attention. She's a saint, pushing through every year.

I met a woman at a resort once who told me she quit the day after 9/11. She taught in Staten Island for years. All the kids were picked up early except one. He was terrified and being the only kid left in the class only made it worse. She said she was holding him and trying to calm him down.

When the mother eventually arrived she asked where she'd been and why she didn't respond to calls or come in sooner. The mother said why should I be inconvinced because of some terrorist act.

She said she felt like teaching was just hopeless after that and typed up her resignation the next day.

OP, my heart goes out to you. Here's hoping you land on your feet and find a career as fulfilling as you thought teaching would be.

I quit teaching at the college level (mostly adjunct, but with some year-to-year FT contract positions) in 2012. Teaching political science (mostly American Government) had even by then become such a political mine field that students were standing up in the classroom and screaming at me when I presented basic and actual facts. One of my students had a job as an armed security guard and was allowed to openly carry his sidearm in the classroom; who knows who was carrying concealed weapons? I was honestly afraid I or students were going to be shot.

I then went back to work for the state government and retired at 58 with a tiny pension -- but it was the right decision for me. Now I work PT from home reading/scoring college applications for a huge public university. No teaching, and I'm completely anonymous to the applicants, so no fear for my life. But the pay sucks. Still, I guess you can't have everything.

I really wish I could go back to teaching American Government. It's shocking how little people know -- even college educated people -- about how our government works. An easy "tell" is asking how many justices are on the Supreme Court, or how many years are in a senator's term of office. My surgeon (born and raised in the U.S.) didn't know how many justices are on the Supreme Court! It's shameful.

At this point, I have very little hope for this country's future. I just hope that, if/when the shit hits the fan, I have the time and money to get out. Keep your passport handy, is what I always say!

I quit teaching after 3 years. I'm an escort now and own my own stripping company. I make two times as much as I did teaching.

Unless you’re in the wealthy, mainly Northeast, suburban school districts, it’s not worth it. But my siblings are - and each make just over $100k and have pensions that guarantee about $100k every year until they die as well as other benefits, I would need to have millions in a 401k to come close to their level of comfort in retirement. It’s a form of compensation that is difficult to value for many - and is completely dependent on your life span.

A difficult, yet potentially rewarding career - for the right person. From what I hear, it’s the parents who are the nightmare and the political administration - especially now.

Covid came and I quit!

Whoot!

OP, if you love teaching you might consider a position in an international school in Europe or other parts of the world where kids are respectful, the schools are flush with cash and parents and administration generally keep things very much in line

I was a lifeguard the year before I started teaching I made less than $1000 more my first year of teaching than I did twirling a whistle. I taught 6 classes, two of which were the same subject/level, so five different preps. That was illegal in my state, but no union. No one gave a shit so why should I.? My first year was also my last. I found a great career in healthcare.

R32, I’m not sure that is the case anymore. Districts are drastically reducing benefits including pensions. What state are the school districts in that you referenced?

You need to do what’s best for your health, OP. I’ve realized this the last couple of years. I teach elementary and can retire in 2025 at 60.

It’s hard to determine what’s the worst - dealing with the students, the parents or administration.

I’ve reduced my teaching time just to try to hang on for the last few years. It’s a marathon and I wasn’t going to make it working a 1.0 contract (doing 70% now).

I’m a science teacher and did a lesson on the coronavirus this month for my grade 5s who’re learning about human organ systems. Two have mask exemptions in class and spouted their anti-mask/anti-vaccine rhetoric that their parents have taught them. One refused to participate in the lesson. I gave him the option of doing something else BECAUSE I’M AFRAID OF PARENT BACKLASH. It’s come to that, being fearful because the parents are so bad to deal with.

Kids will tell us “You can’t do anything to us.” Sadly, they’re right. Best of luck to you!

Best/optimistic/wonderful ass. principal taught in Africa for a bit. They made the bad kids sit in the sun with no food on rocks all day! Sounds good.

She quit this year, along with another good, although Mormon, principal. He was hot though and I'd imagine him in his magic underwear.

good luck... I wish I had your courage. I want to as well but no idea what I would do

It is common to switch careers in one's lifetime. This has always been common among Teachers. Teachers leave all the time. Burn out is also very common. It is a hard job with a lot of responsibility.

You do have a lot of skills, especially soft skills that will serve you well in the next chapter of your life.

Thank you for your service.

I hear you, OP! I have been teaching for 37 years and have four semesters to go before I retire. Believe me, I am counting down...

A few realities that many in the public just don't know/understand:

summer - Summer break was NEVER four months. In most places it was never even three months. In my district it's seven weeks. And it is not "vacation" -vacation is time off from working, where you still get paid. Teachers aren't paid for the summer, and it's a long haul from the the last paycheck in June to the first one at the end of August.

pension - Old teacher like me have a traditional pension, with a defined benefit. Younger teachers mostly have a defined contribution plan that is second-class at best. The pension is calculated based on your salary, years of service, and age. I started young, so I actually have to work longer, as the years of service aren't as important to the calculation as your age. Retiring under age 60 costs you $1,000-1,800 per month for each year before 60. Retiring before 63 will cost you, no matter what. And most teachers do NOT get medical benefits in retirement. If they have a good contract, they get a small stipend to help pay for insurance until they qualify for Medicare.

discipline - At least in California, school have fallen victim to an insidious philosophy. No, not CRT -but "restorative practices." The real RP program might be great, but not the way it is being implemented. It basically says that a child who misbehaves is really a victim who needs to be restored to everyone's good graces, and given a chance to make amends rather than be punished. Suspension is no longer allowed. I recently had an 11-year-old boy (certainly old enough to know better), fondle a girl's buttocks and breasts, smack another student in the head, and use racial slurs to another in a two-day period. He was called to the office for "counseling" and sent back to class within twenty minutes. That was it. He didn't even lose a recess. The result is that the kids know that nothing really ever happens to them, so they just do what they want. At most, they have to do lip service to apologizing to their victims. And the bad behavior continues and escalates.

abuse from parents - This used to be a pretty rare thing. Now it's daily. At every school board meeting my colleagues and I are called racists, communists, socialists, neo-socialist colonialists (not kidding), child abusers, and more. This year I have received death threats, for christ's sake! Not all the parents are insane, of course -but more and more of them are, and they are increasingly vocal. And the local media loves to give them voice and create even more drama. Last month one parent group actually put a picture of me on their Facebook page along with what they claimed was my salary (God, I wish I made that much money!) and called my a hypocrite because I spoke up at a school board meeting, asking the board to pass along to teachers and other employees the cost of living adjustment that the state already paid them. A COLA is not a raise! It's an attempt to keep up with inflation.

The job of teaching has become nearly impossible. I'm at a great school, have a great principal, and wonderful, supportive colleagues -and I'm still miserable. I'm out the minute I can afford to leave.

I teach at the two-year college level so don't have the behavioral issues to deal with, but a lot of the students are unprepared for college and don't want to do anything. They turn in work weeks late and always have an excuse. We get paid less than some K-12 teachers, raises are rare, and the committee work etc. is backbreaking. I'm currently retraining in another field (going to school part-time and working full-time blows, BTW), and as soon as I'm qualified in that other field, I'm OUT.

Teachers are required to act like parents way too much in the US. Instead, teachers should teach and there should be legitimate mental health care for the kids with real problems. If lazy kids don't take their education seriously, and want to browse their phones all day, that's cool. Let them fail. More education for the kids who care. It's the parents' job to teach their kids discipline and monitor their screen time. Kids with true behavioral issues should be in the care of qualified mental health professionals rather than placing that burden on teachers.

Just try convincing their parents that their little darlings need mental health care, R43. They'll sue you!

The problem is the mainstreaming of children with serious issues: autism, mental illness, serious childhood trauma, etc. The teachers have 1 support person in the class with them but are expected to teach 30-40 kids including, usually, 3-5 who should be in a special school. I have friends who teach and tell me those kids are not educable, but they are forced to contend with them anyway.

Why do you think parents of normal children are yanking them out of public schools and putting them in private or charter? They don't want their kids mixed in with the nuts anymore. Why do you think people who can do anything else are getting out fast? It's a stupid solution to a complex problem that puts all the burden on underpaid teachers.

This is probably a stupid question but shouldn't classroom sizes be smaller now that there are fewer kids than before?

Not in my state, R46. There are still lots of poor kids warehoused in the public schools, and a lot of them are NUTS.

Teachers really are the most entitled people sometimes. You all know what the job entails but still acts surprised when the obvious comes to fruition. Sure, COVID changed things a bit but teachers, like cops are drama queens. Why can’t you guys be like your quiet firefighter brothers. They are unionized and are rarely this dramatic.

Not a stupid question, R46 (unlike the comments of 48). In most places teachers are hired to maintain a specific staffing ratio -say 30:1. That means if you lose 30 students in the district, you also lose a teaching position too. In most places there are enough new teachers on temporary or probationary contracts that it's a simple matter of not rehiring them for the next school year, but sometimes it means long-time teachers are let go. This is not necessarily a district's fault. When kids go away their funding goes with them, so the money for paying teachers isn't there. Smaller class sizes are great -but it's not class size that is driving teachers away.

Oh fuck off, R48.

Of course I knew what my job WAS, R48, but that is no longer what my job IS. Of course I accept that curriculum will change, methodologies will change, teaching assignments and classrooms will change. It has always been that way. Also, we all get "clunker" students every now and then. They come, they go. But nowhere in my training or decades of job experience was I prepared to work as a counselor, social worker, or behavior support specialist. If your dentist does not want to do heart surgery does that make her entitled?? They are simply different jobs, and no sane person expects one to do the other's job. So why are teachers expected to be teachers, social workers, counselors, babysitters, nurses, and surrogate parents?

Lots of jobs teaching online OP.

"Silver Steele" gave up teaching high school in the Houston area, and while doing some private sector work, got into porn and now does that full-time.

The American teacher situation sounds insane. Why on earth aren't you paid over the summer? Teachers shouldn't have to look for a second job to make ends meet.

It's a bit of a pendulum situation, I think. I don't know what it's been like historically over there, but in our country when I was at school (the 90s) the teachers were psychotic and abusive, they would bully children and would be terrible teachers. And they would get away with it because the parents assumed the teacher was the good person as the person in authority, and children who complained about that behaviour were made to feel they were the problem.

It's my generation sending their children into the school environment now, and people tell me all the time how afraid they are to send their kids into a situation like that, because of how it was for them. And so the parents are on the school's case over EVERYTHING now. It is too much and I feel sorry for those teachers who are good ones who are being affected by this now. But I can see where it comes from, and I think some sort of middle ground is going to have to be reached.

I’m a teacher. Got into it at 42, now I’m 58, and these responses make me sad because i love teaching. I’ve had a LOT of other careers, so i never felt like i was missing out. I teach in a psychiatric hospital and NEVER have to deal with parents, so theres that. Also, i pretty much teach what i want. If there haven’t been any riots in my room that week, then thats success. Its VERY challenging at times, since, you know, the kids are literally crazy, but i have so many great moments. Kids have actually told me i changed their lives; how do you put a price tag on that?

I ended up here after being run out of my first teaching gig by a sociopath of a principal, and being unable to get another job with the NYC Department of Education. I assume he put something in my file? I bounced around tutoring before this job came along by sheer happenstance. I have a lot of autonomy, which make up for a lot of downsides (you can’t wear a tie to work since someone might try to strangle you with it.)

The worst part, as always, is administration, and since its a hospital, they have even less connection to the needs of the classroom. At my age, retirement is moving to the front of my mind. Im in good shape, but its hard to keep up with teenagers. I have military service, so i’m hoping that will get added onto my years for retirement purposes. I feel for those of you who are burned out, in many ways, i feel oddly lucky. The stars aligned with this job.

I thought teachers get a SALARY each year, it sounds like you all want to be an hourly employee instead, paid for every minute. The one or two months in summer IS your vacation I thought. Someone please explain.

thou art an envious bitch, r56.

I was lucky. I taught 4 years in Connecticut at the end of a period of time where teachers there earned the most in any State with the exception of a few districts in Long Island NY and one Swiss canton. That system was underfunded and changed by around 1999-2000, so I took an offer at a really good independent school in NYC. I stayed on there for 13 years, with three professional leave years to teach in Europe and serve a special fellowship. When I left, my salary was $127k for 179 work days, plus 14% on top of that salary contributed to a 403(b) retirement account that grew pretty fast over time. At 46, using experience from fellowships and some media projects, I switched to an executive nonprofit role and now lead an organization. It’s a great gig.

Thinking back, my time teaching was unusual. I taught two 90 minute lessons on most days, and had large blocks of planning and preparation time at the independent school that surprised me after having taught in public school. Some years I had only one class on Fridays. Only brief supervising duty once or twice per week, 20 minutes in the student lounge during morning arrival or afternoon dismissal, or one lunch block in a the school cafeteria (modern, glass, but noisy, crowded, and sometimes messy).

It was hard to leave that teaching assignment (tenured, vested, with lavish healthcare coverage and a lot of easy recognition), but I knew the conditions were likely to change. There was progressively more jealousy and competition among teachers, increasingly deceptive emails from parents (and sometimes nannies and/tutors) on the night before project deadlines and tests (called Common Assessments). I remember a few late emails ‘our (son or daughter), (Zach or Zoe) didn’t understand the assignment and unfortunately needs more time/guidance/encouragement/support…’ These emails were rare but created a chain of communication that could get stressful and awkward. I saw the potentials of becoming part Nanny/part teacher, being targeted online, bullied or gossiped about by unhappy colleagues, and having bosses that were getting younger and younger and sometimes dumber. I felt sort of vulnerable, picturing myself as ‘clever ten years ago’ and an easy target as I aged out of the teaching profession. I remembered being nicer to my own mentors when I became a young teacher, but it saddened and scared me that most teachers over 40 were easy prey and soft targets for cliques of colleagues and, less so, students. I took off the ‘golden handcuffs’ and moved on. It was hard but I don’t regret it. I’m 56 now, out of teaching for ten years, don’t miss it. I think I hit the right opportunities and moved on at exactly the right moments. That’s luck.

I remember kids whose parents would take them on a week long cruise in the middle of the school year and they would expect me to line up a week of schoolwork for them to do on the ship. Of course I would laugh and tell them to read the chapter and do all the corresponding exercises and workbook assignments. Guess how much they actually completed? 🤔

Teachers have it so easy, the whole summer off plus a couple of weeks in December, another week or two in the spring, every damn holiday. Plus school is usually out by 3 pm.

[quote] teachers have it so easy, the whole summer off plus a couple of weeks in December, another week or two in the spring, every damn holiday. Plus school is usually out by 3 pm.

R55 here, and you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Schools out at 3? Doesn’t mean the teachers are leaving. Theres work to grade, lesson plans to make, paperwork to fill out (especially for a special-ed teacher) and meetings, meetings, MEETINGS!

There are grade-level meetings, content area meetings, and whole staff meeting, along with mandatory professional development. On top of that, this entire thread testifies to how stressful and emotionally taxing teaching is. That toll cant be measured in hours.

You’ve already been told how that time off is filled with more planning and professional development, but you ignore that to say something stupid about people who, at our best, mold the next generation, and at our worst? At least we try. What the fuck do you contribute to the world besides your ignorant, asshole opinions?

[quote]at our best, mold the next generation, and at our worst? At least we try.

Re: the first type of teacher, I admire them. I really, really do. It's not an easy job and the ones who care are gems who deserve every cent and much more that they make.

However, "at least we try" isn't good enough for the worst of you, which in my experience (and the experience of friends, family and anyone I've spoken to about this) is the majority. Most teachers seem to suffer from arrested development. They have never left the school environment, so they behave like the worst aspects of teenagers all the time. I know nurses who say, whenever they have a weird and difficult patient, "I bet they're a teacher" and they always find out they are right. Teachers bully students, they want to be seen as popular by the "cool" group of kids, their sense of humour is on the mean level that kids engage in, they sometimes act inappropriately towards students (flirting etc)...

That's why I admire the ones not like that so much. They don't let then environment affect them, and they really do push to help improve their students. But they're the minority, unfortunately.

I second what r62 says about the arrested development and bullying from teachers.

We’ve dealt with some very unprofessional teachers in a supposedly good district. They are also very entitled- the school can’t run without parent volunteers to do absolutely everything for the teachers.

Fine if you need help— hire teacher’s aids. A lot of our district’s students went with a digital learning academy during covid, and we’d get huffy emails from our home school to the effect that we really should reconsider our decision because it meant our school would lose teaching positions. Not a peep about child safety— just “how can you do this to us.”

There was one teacher who would put out a list of what she DIDNT want as gifts during the year— “please, I don’t like candy. Don’t give me candy.” She was also a rude, tacky bitch in general.

I wouldn’t want my kid picking up the terrible manners of these people.

I understand. I teach at a private school. I would literally make more money per hour working at Dunk'n Donuts (I am not hourly, I am paid per class) . I am at school at 7:00 AM and I leave school between 5:30 and 6:00 on Tues, Wednesday, Thursday. Monday and Tuesday, I leave school at 4:00. This week we had parent/teacher conferences on Saturday. In two weeks, we have a mandatory workshop all weekend.

The crazy at our school seems to have increased with COVID. We have so many serious issues with children and parents. I suspect working from home has really brought out the crazy in the parents. I can't post details even on an anonymous site, but CPS has been called several times.

[quote] However, "at least we try" isn't good enough for the worst of you, which in my experience (and the experience of friends, family and anyone I've spoken to about this) is the majority. Most teachers seem to suffer from arrested development. They have never left the school environment, so they behave like the worst aspects of teenagers all the time. I know nurses who say, whenever they have a weird and difficult patient, "I bet they're a teacher" and they always find out they are right. Teachers bully students, they want to be seen as popular by the "cool" group of kids, their sense of humour is on the mean level that kids engage in, they sometimes act inappropriately towards students (flirting etc)...

Im sorry you’ve had those experiences. Such people should be run out of the profession, but i assure you, i and most of the people i work with, really do care.

[quote]Why can’t you guys be like your quiet firefighter brothers. They are unionized and are rarely this dramatic.

The average firefighter makes like TWICE or THREE TIMES what most teachers make. Plus, no one ever talks shit to someone saving their life or gets upset about their union or payscale. Some firefighter salaries in CA for example average over 110,000 a year and sitting on their ass waiting form something to actually happen 80% of the time.

R66, also the fireman and police unions actively block pay raises for teachers. They see teaching a being predominately a profession of women and they *will not* be paid the same as a woman... or even close.

OP, my heart goes out to teachers. It’s a really tough job.

They should invest more in replacing traditional instruction with on-line learning activities that will capture students' attention. Then, there won't be as high a demand for the teachers, and they can spend their time house sitting and whatnot.

I read (years ago) that teachers had the option of getting full pay for the months they worked OR getting it prorated so they would get a check throughout the year.

I know teachers in my school would get summer jobs. I remember being shocked when I walked into my old elementary school one summer day and saw the phys ed teacher/coach from my high school working as a janitor.

I have a friend who is a teacher in a poor immigrant district and it’s fascinating hearing her talk about what goes on behind the scenes. The pandemic actually worked out well for some of their students because the ones who were too poor to have a laptop and internet service could still come to class (masked) and the teacher/student ratio was so beneficial, 4 or 5 kids to a class. Unfortunately a lot of others fell by the wayside, moved, dropped out, who knows.

In Loco Parentis has taken on a whole different meaning.

It’s interesting that complaining about clients is ok in some professions (teaching) but frowned upon or grounds for losing one’s license in others (law, medicine.)

It’s almost as if some professions expect people to be adults, and others don’t.

Students aren't clients, asshole.

Didn’t teachers have almost a year of not working?

Yes, r73, we all know you feel that way. The students just exist to give you a job.

R72, I am from a medical family. I assure you that doctors talk about their patients exactly the same way teachers talk about the parents and students. We have the same or similar issues of confidentiality. I can write that CPS was contacted because of incidents at the school. I cannot go into any detail. However, generalize bitching? Exactly the same.

What is important about you post is that you compare two professions that are still some of the most highly regarded, with teaching, which is still seen by many as something one is supposed to do until one gets married or once the kids are out of the house. With all the current talk of fast food joints paying a living wage, it would be impossible to raise a family on a teacher's salary. If you want teachers to be professional, treat teaching as a profession and pay us a professional salary. As I mentioned in R64, an employee at Dunk'n Donuts makes more than teachers in our school per hour. s

The teachers today are getting the result of HOW MANY years have we heard ohhh the POOR TEACHERS ! Sick of all their whining.

I'm thinking of signing up to sub in my school district. I taught at the college level for a few years, then moved on. They seem to desperately need subs, and really all I have to do is keep them alive, right?

R78. Pretty much. The teacher should have a lesson plan for you.

R20 How old were you when you made the switch? TIA

So, OP, what happened this morning?

My kid’s kindergarten teacher had a Master’s from Cal and made $105,000 / year five years ago.

She was also a complete nutjob and absent about 25% of the time. But that’s a story for another day.

Teachers in some districts are paid very well, especially if they have a Masters degree.

I'm a teacher. I am sad to hear you are in this state of mind, OP, and also that the working conditions are so bad. However I don't support walking out in the middle of a semester. I guess you are teaching in obligatory school, where it wouldn't matter so much? Can you do "burn out" and just leave and think about it? A doctors note and you are just "gone" for months or a year. Leaving because of emergency mental or physical health issue makes sense. Quitting in the middle of a class in order to change careers seems selfish. But I'm not in your shoes. You do what you have to.

Many many teachers burn out, and its a mistake to keep working in the profession if there is no hope to improve it. Teachers cannot really change anything. The only way a teacher can have a long and satisfying career is to master the exchange of energy so that students are giving back as much energy as the teacher gives to them. It's not easy to do. You have to be conscious about it and a lot of people can't feel this exchange. But its a kind of thing that is important in a lot of "helping" professions and "public facing" professions.

R80, I was 40 when I quit teaching and 42 when I went back to work in healthcare, I retrained online during the lockdown last year and went back to work this year.

40/41/42 seemed like a good time, I didn't want to put off the change any longer.

would be great if the OP came back and told was happened

OP is absolutely right about the behaviour of parents and administration in US schools. My sister teaches in Washington state and says the exact same thing as the OP.

Here’s a good book on just how badly things have become.

My moronic brother is a teacher in an uppity county. He doesn't deserve what he's paid. There's a lot of this, too.

I'm a retired teacher and glad I got out when I did. While I was teaching, we had 3 teachers quit during their lunch...they got in the car, left school, and made a call to the office telling them they were out of there. The school could keep all the posters, furniture, and supplies that the teacher provided out of their own pocket.

[quote] You mean after you had FOUR MONTHS OFF before you started again in August?

I am a teacher and I agree with this. We get so many week- and month- long vacations. What IS bad this year is the kids' behavior. A lot of them haven't been in school for almost two years, and they are poorly socialized. Fortunately my school has brought back corporal punishment and issued tasers to teaching staff. (The last part isn't true but I wish it were.)

Teacher must buy the furniture in the USA? I though it was the richest cuntry in the wold, Amurca!

R84 what healthcare job did you retrain for in just one year? I’m interested.

R91, it was as a pharmacy technician. It can be done in much less than a year, but I dragged it out and took my time and emerged into a Covid-era hiring shortage that allowed me to go on multiple interviews, turn down a few offers, learn how to negotiate better pay, and find a right fit with co-workers and management. This beats having to take what I could get or try to move around the country in search of academic work. I actually had to decline even scheduling some of the interviews, too many suitors. They paid me a little more because I came in already certified and licensed and I was compensated for having my earlier education, too, even though a PhD in English wasn't directly related. It's an employee-driven marketplace and I worked it to my advantage.

So different from life as the token gay adjunct instructor. Once I have six months to a year of hands-on experience in a pharmacy, I can move into other areas (benefit management, for one). It's another world and I don't feel trapped anymore.

Op here. The deed is done. Admin tried to talk me into staying. I stood firm and next Friday is my last day. No regrets (yet). I won’t feel completely unburdened until my last day.

To the poster who commented on not supporting teachers who quit mid-year - I would not have quit if the work environment were healthy and sustainable. Unfortunately, that is not the case in my district. I’m of no value to my students in my current state of mind/despair. I would normally feel guilty for the leaving my principal with the burden of filling my position, but do not as she created this work environment. She has been well aware of my concerns and declining state of mental health this school year so my resignation should come as no surprise. She had ample time to address my concerns, but did not/could not.

And yes, teachers buy furniture and so much more. Every weekend I spend running errands purchasing books, classroom supplies, materials to teach specific lessons required by the curriculum that are not provided by my district, incentives such as candy and crafts required by our admin to distribute at school events such as curriculum nights and Trunk or Treat, cleaning supplies, an entire library of classroom books ($$$$), manipulatives, my own laminator and xerox paper, spiritwear, etc. The list goes on. When I move out of my classroom next weekend I will be making multiple trips to move bookcases, an office chair, rugs, bean bag chairs, small craft table, framed posters, magnetic whiteboard easel, curtains, curtain rod, baskets, boxes of my personal supplies, a fan, a desk lamp, a rolling file cart, and a trash can. And many of my personal items have been stolen or ruined by my students who have no remorse. I think the majority of the public would be shocked to learn how much teachers are required to supply themselves. I can’t think of another profession where employees are not given the tools they need to do their jobs.

If there are any journalists here, an expose on the current state of public schools and teaching in the US would be worth investigating and garner mass interest. Teachers are ready to talk. It’s all over social media. I’m not the only one jumping ship.

Good for you, OP. You knew what you needed and kept to it, I really respect that. I wish we could give you a party on your last day. Hell, I wish I could give you a hand moving all that stuff. Best of luck!

I got out before the smart phone was a reality. Flip phones were bad enough. I honestly don’t know how teachers keep the jaded American offspring with zero attention span engaged.

I quit teaching at the start of the year. Unlike others, I've never had to pay for my own resources or texts and have been lucky to have no really tricky parents (it seems like parents have a lot more influence in the US, as well as politicized school boards). I was finding it frustrating having to deal with an increasing number of students who just don't give a shit, and the ensuing classroom management issues. Though for me, the straw that broke the camel's back was having to work with so many completely useless teachers - most of my issues were students coming in angry or frustrated because of their previous class. Nothing at all was done to try to get these teachers to even make slight changes to the way they worked. I also felt like curriculum and assessment pressures were stymieing creativity or being able to better cater for kids.

My holidays have certainly been cut back by a lot, but since I get my evenings and weekends back, I don't care. In teaching, most nights and weekends there is marking to be done or lessons to prepare, but even if there isn't, you still mentally run through the kinds of challenges you'll face the next day. It's so great to be able to go out for dinner or sit down in an evening and have nothing to do or think about. I definitely miss those moments when you have a great class and they are really engaged in learning - I just have to remind myself that those kinds of classes are much rarer than they used to be.

Teaching is a thankless vocation. Even fraus I worked with whose husbands were the primary breadwinners admitted they wouldn’t do the job if their livelihoods depended on it, and many worked a part time a schedule. No warm fuzzies are worth the mental, emotional and physical toll it takes on you.

Congrats on following your heart, OP. I too gave them my resignation letter in the middle of a semester, although I stayed to teach until the end. I don't know how I made it; I held on by the skin of my teeth, as they say.

People don't understand how disheartening it is to really want to work with and educate students and help them get the materials they'll need to navigate through life and then feel so unappreciated by not just them, but everyone. And I often felt like I was an entertainer as opposed to a professor, but that's what's required now.

As I said, I taught mostly American Government; it's difficult to teach something people truly believe that they already know everything about, while their ignorance is shocking. I remember passing a student in the hallway who said to me, "It's a shame I'm not in your American Government class; we could have some great discussions." I replied, "What makes you think I want to hear your opinions?" His mouth dropped open! Sometimes I would tell my students, "The class is Political SCIENCE, not Political OPINIONS."

Even here on DL, most people don't know that as a (former) working political scientist, I have an intensive statistical background. There are so many things that need to be measured! Is X policy effective? Should we have done Y or Z instead? Who does it help/hurt? Just drawing congressional districts (i.e. "gerrymandering") is a mathematical science in and of itself, as probably some of you here already know. I worked extensively with census data, and we should all know what a fiasco this recent census was under "the last guy." There's a massive argument that has been going on for many years about doing an actual body count for the census vs. (probably more accurate) statistical modeling. And on and on. It really is a social SCIENCE and very few people appreciate that. I'm so happy to be retired!

So congrats again, OP! Your courage has served you well, and I'm sure you'll be successful in whatever future career you choose to pursue.

[quote]And yes, teachers buy furniture and so much more. Every weekend I spend running errands purchasing books, classroom supplies, materials to teach specific lessons required by the curriculum that are not provided by my district, incentives such as candy and crafts required by our admin to distribute at school events such as curriculum nights and Trunk or Treat, cleaning supplies, an entire library of classroom books ($$$$), manipulatives, my own laminator and xerox paper, spiritwear, etc. The list goes on. When I move out of my classroom next weekend I will be making multiple trips to move bookcases, an office chair, rugs, bean bag chairs, small craft table, framed posters, magnetic whiteboard easel, curtains, curtain rod, baskets, boxes of my personal supplies, a fan, a desk lamp, a rolling file cart, and a trash can. And many of my personal items have been stolen or ruined by my students who have no remorse. I think the majority of the public would be shocked to learn how much teachers are required to supply themselves

WHAT?! Just... WHAT?! The way the US treats its teachers is INSANE! No teacher is required to do this in my country.

R99, It is a common ploy in the USA. It is "Think of the children" in the most negative and manipulative form. School districts often do not supply necessities such as toilet paper, etc. knowing that teachers will not allow their students to go without. Teachers are forever filling the void left by the admin or parents. Some parents really work the system. One would not send her children to school with coats, knowing that someone would go out and buy the kids coats so they would be proper dressed in NH winters.

My aunt got her masters degree in Education back in the late 70's, and began a career teaching shortly thereafter. She retired after a couple of years. I'm sure teaching today poses new challenges, but a lot of the shit has been going on for decades.

R101, Up the Down Staircase was published in 1967.

Another teacher here who posted up thread.

I’m very happy you came back to let us know how things worked out, OP. Best wishes as you start a new course in life.

Indeed. R101...

[quote]Students aren't clients, asshole.

You never heard of a For-Profit college? They are in fact considered clients and usually force the teachers to give "their clients" what they want.

It's like that even when it's not a for-profit college, R105.

My department chair made it very clear that I wasn't allowed to fail anyone. You wanna know how he did it? I gave out 10 F's (I probably had about 300 students that semester); he called me into his office and gave me a stern lecture on giving students the benefit of the doubt, etc. Then 10 grade-change forms appeared in my in-box. I can't accuse him of coercion because he doesn't say anything flat-out. So he has what they used to call "plausible deniability."

That's the way things are at this point. Gotta love "higher education"!

Most teachers will experience burnout in their careers. Unfortunately, many are unwilling or unable to leave the profession when they should. Kudos to you, OP. You're doing the right thing for yourself and, most importantly, for your students. They need and deserve more/better than a teacher who has totally burned out on teaching.

Good luck to you in your new future.

Funny, the deans at my Swiss STEM university get pissed when we don't fail enough students. God forbid a semester with no failures. There will be questions and attitude.

All scho districts should ban students from. Ringing phones to school. They are on their phones in class all day.

Parents can contact them using the teacher's phone line in class.

Sorry. From bringing phones to school.

FYI-Schools would love to ban phones, the problem isn't with the students, it is with the parents...they would flip if we banned phones...they think it is the only way they can get in contact with little Debbie or Donnie. Anyone wondering why teachers and admin are leaving the profession? Read this mornings boston.com...the principal of a school was knocked out by a 16 year old girl and ended up in the hospital...add to that the pressure parents and tax payers are putting on them and no wonder.

It's very simple to me, just do not become a teacher, then no bitching is required.

I dunno, my friend is a teacher he makes $80,000.00 (was $100K but he had to take a cut and teach a different level). Anyway he only works until 3pm. All summer off. His only complaint is that sometimes he get a class from hell and it can be stressful.

He may leave at 3 pm, but has to do work at night or on the weekends to be able to that...no teacher can just work the 8-3 time and not do work at home. Most teachers do not make a salary of 80,000, he works in a very good school district if he makes that...and I bet he doesn't live in the same town as his district.

As an elementary teacher, I see no good reasons why kids should have phones at school. Our oldest students, 12-year-olds in grade 6, are even too young IMO, to be given their own phone. I’m pretty sure they’re not paying for it and if they’re not they shouldn’t have one.

[Quote][R101], Up the Down Staircase was published in 1967.

They also made it into a film. The movie seems quite quaint now.

I remember a PE teacher who would read a novel during his prep. Others would read the newspaper. Unfortunately unions keep a lot of shitty/lazy teachers in the classroom. The good ones, the majority, care a lot about the kids they teach, work really hard, and make a shit wage if they figured out salary compared to hours worked. I used to spend most of Sunday in my room working. Summers off were never a equal trade off.

I just looked it up and found roughly 60% of my property taxes go to funding public schools. Since I live in Texas, that's the lion's share of taxes (we don't have a state income tax), and the rest is sales taxes. 40% of my taxes is enough pay for state, county and city taxes, infrastructure, and everything else. So how is it possible teachers don't have enough money?

R118, because that money does not go to teachers. And a great deal of the money that does, does not go to rank-and-file teachers. Obviously, a lot goes to administration and facilities. A great deal goes to programs. Those varsity sports teams cost a lot and parents will not allow their budgets to be cut. However, one of the big drains is Special Education. Cities are required to give all children an education, even those with extreme challenges. This means a lot of expensive extra support in school or, in some states (I don't know the law in Texas), the state has to pay to send the child to a private school if the city is unable or unwilling to teach the child at the public school. I live in a village of 400 households. The largest portion of our property taxes go to education primarily because two students have special needs.

R119 I'll grant you Texas probably spends more than any state on football and huge stadiums, but even so, how is it possible for schools to spend more than the entire state (national guard, state government facilities and personnel, department of transportation, health services, environment, etc.) plus all county and city facilities, police, fire, sanitation, road maintenance, etc. and still be underfunded? It's mind-boggling.

My dad taught math, but I have no real idea of the current state of education beyond occasional anecdotes from friends. If things really are this bad, it would be an excellent counterargument to the CRT narrative we are going to hear until next November.

r120. If you are a native Texan, perhaps it is an indication of the Texas school system that you are asking the question rather telling us the answer. Do the research and come back with the answer.

what did you teach, op? How did it go? Hope you are doing well.

A major part of the problem is student behavior. It’s extraordinarily stressful to be responsible for a classroom full of students when you have a handful of students who hit other students, talk back, insult you, bully/verbally abuse classmates, hide under desks, destroy materials, run (leave the classroom or playground unsupervised), scream, cry, curse, have constant meltdowns, etc. I’m talking about students under the age of 10. The responsibility is enormous and just keeping students safe is a daily challenge. It shouldn’t be this hard. Parents are in denial about their children’s behavior and take no responsibility and their kids know it.

Teaching is really draining, even if you like your job. Most of the time you are not developing lession plans and teaching, you are dealing with a TON of Bullshit from the school district and colleugues at your schools. Parents are overwhemled and are overworking in their life with their shit jobs, and cannot help the schools out anymore. And some parents cannot help because they are stupid, or shady.

Caring and teaching children is stressfull because you care for them as they are your family. Moreover Teachers have so many children per classroom. It is unreal. For all these reason, many people can only be teachers for a short period of time. You have the right to change careers and focus on other interests in your life. This is very common.

People do not understand how hard it is to be a teacher. Republicans hate teachers.

You could become a porn star like this high school Latin teacher.

Teachers and schools no longer just teach. Schools provide breakfast, lunch and in some cases dinner. In my area, schools provide weekend packages so that students are not going with food over the weekend and even on snow days. If schools were only required to focus on teaching and providing students with an education, the budgets would not be in the range they are now. Our society looks at schools to raise, support, counsel and feed our children...if you think teachers are over paid...then you don't have a clue as to what they are doing. FYI, no a teacher, but serve on the local budget committee for my city.

[quote] Do the research and come back with the answer.

I'm not a native Texan, R122 but thanks for the gratuitous insult. The answer, since you asked is gross mismanagement, local school politics, and the fact that schools spend enormous resources trying to teach pigs to sing.

Most students do not benefit from a high school education. Their time would be far better spent in vocational or trade training, along with basic everyday math, communication, and life skills. High schools should probably be means-tested fee-based, with public funded scholarships to those disadvantaged kids who demonstrate academic ability in middle school.

And local school boards should be abolished.

R115 I can understand the need for young kids to have phones-so many single parent households and two income families and so forth, but those phones should be TURNED OFF and LOCKED in a teachers desk. They can have them at lunch and when they leave school for the day. They shouldn’t even have them at recess. Recess should be for games and play and not for the internet

R124 and R125 hit the nail on the head. In some classrooms we aren’t even teaching. We’re constantly dealing with student behaviour. We are expected to be teachers, parents, referees, social workers, mental health counsellors, you name it.

My school board no longer fails children. Giving them a failing grade (“R”” for Remediation) is almost impossible. One of our board’s mission goals is a 90% graduation rate. You know, because it’s more important that a higher percentage of students graduate high school than whether or not they deserve to. Everyone’s a winner. This is not preparing them for the real world.

R45, I have heard in the name of "equity", kids that normally have an IEP and would be taught in a separate classroom are now mainstreamed with normal kids. Which results in absolute chaos in the classroom.

More parents will be yanking their kids out for private school and homeschooling. Do I blame them? No, I don't.

I also just read about a principal in Boston who was knocked out for 4 minutes cold by a violent "student". The parents had previously been threatening the principal due to another violent fight this "student" had been involved in around a month before.

The new Mayor is planning on yanking all SRO's out of the schools along with metal detectors.

If I were a teacher or administrator in Boston, I would be GTFO now.

I teach in high school and there are so many issues

1. cell phone addiction is insane and probably causes 95% of all drama in a school. So many teachers I work with just let them play on their phones during class but I don't... I teach a subject where they can't multitask easily. It is a constant battle but I just want them to be successful in our class. They also want the phone to do all the work for them. They literally don't know how to think for themselves. We are screwed as a society.

2. Our students can not get below a 50 in any class even if they have done zero work. When discussing this with one of the top administrators in my district, I asked her what would happen if I refused to work and still demanded 50% of my salary. She told me that I would be let go yet our students do shit and get a 50%

3. Students get away with murder because we lack assistant principals to actually do discipline. My admins are constantly putting out fires instead of dealing with issues like cutting. I have been told by more than 1 admin that they reason they skip is because they are lost in my class and I always counter that they are lost because they were allowed to cut class for 2 weeks so when the student is finally "held responsible" for cutting, they come to class 1 day and then start cutting again because it is too hard and they are lost. and it's MY fault. I work with mostly great teachers but admin can't actually observe and evaluate teachers so they shitty ones get away with it. TPTB are also also of any legal issue so it is almost impossible to even suspend a student nowadays. Also the 'in" thing is restorative justice so no detentions or suspensions. Students tell our principal fuck you to his face and he does nothing!

I stay in teaching because while I do love the actual teaching (99% of the time), it's the other shit that gets me. I am within 5 years of being able to retire and get an extra buyout but I am nowhere near retirement age but I don't know what else I would/be able to do.

R132, A few years ago, I completed a Masters Degree in Instructional Design. It focused on adult learning theory and the development of training. There was an eLearning concentration for those who like to write scripts, buy stock photos, play with photoshop, and record their narration. A lot of students in the program were middle age teachers and administrators from the Fairfax county public school system.

I teach in a university. The pay is mediocre and I'm on my fourth year of insecure temporary contracts. But I really like the work. Even teaching relatively uninteresting and basic things can be enjoyable because it's really great to help someone understand something, and my students are generally fun.

but before I got this job, when I was looking for work and not finding it, a family member suggested I look into teaching at a school to. There is no fucking way. I would rather pick rubbish off the street for a living.

Years ago I worked one year at a special needs school with students ranging in age from about 7-21. I learned a lot. Many of them were developmentally delayed, autistic, had severe behavioural and emotional problems, etc. It was our only school like this around. The school board decided mainstreaming the students was the right thing to do so they wouldn’t have be “different”. They went to great lengths to hear everyone’s voice on the matter, including the students, who made it very clear that they wanted to stay were they were. Their parents said the same thing. They felt safe there. The board chose to close the school and mainstream them.

It was always financial no matter what they claimed. It’s cheaper to close a school then add more students somewhere else.

Yeah non teachers think of teaching as babysitting—if you can teach 4 you can teach 5. People are not widgets.

I have a friend who has taught public school in New York City for 25 years. He's black and usually his students are black, because of the parts of town he teaches in. He teaches technology and usually has a higher-achieving sort of student enrolled in his classes. In one class a few years ago, he had very good, serious students except for one kid who was consistently disruptive. My friend is a very empathetic teacher who likes to listen to his students; he's not a disciplinarian at all, but it finally reached a point with the disruptive student where he thought he had to confront the kid. One day he told him to stay behind after the other students left; he told him that he couldn't put up with the disruptive behavior anymore; it had to stop. The kid listened to him, said nothing, and marched directly to the principal's office, where he claimed that my friend had sexually molested him. My friend was summoned to the principal's office, where he explained what had happened. The principal believed him and said that the student had a track record of filing bogus sexual-harassment claims. But here's the thing: the principal said that a record of the claim would remain in my friend's personnel file for the rest of his career; if in the future there were any other similar sorts of complaints against him, the complaint in his file (even though the principal had just agreed that it was bogus) would weigh against him. I thought that was totally outrageous. Teachers are, apparently, completely vulnerable to that sort of unscrupulous student, with no support from the administration. And they wonder why teachers feel feel vulnerable and unsupported?

There seems to be a vast difference in the experience of, say, teachers in suburban middle class districts and teachers in other districts (urban, rural.)

I live in a district that’s very middle class— not elite at all. But, because we’re in California, the average house (which is a shitbox) is over 1M.

Our teachers are very, VERY mediocre. Yet they are totally catered to— parents fall all over themselves to volunteer as teachers’ aids, any time teacher needs something they only have to put up the bat signal and parents will deliver the supplies the next day, teachers get $100.00 gift cards from every student’s family for every occasion.

It makes me wonder why good teachers from rural and urban districts don’t apply to the suburban districts.

OP you said you retrained as.a pharmacy assistant, but that job only requires a HS diploma and average pay is like $28,000. Is teaching that goddamn bad?

R139, it is if you get to the point where adjuncts are only getting one class a quarter plus no benefits. Or worse, you have three classes lined up and then all three get canceled at the last minute due to low enrollment. Anything's better than that shit.

Higher education is dying.

[quote] I have heard in the name of "equity", kids that normally have an IEP and would be taught in a separate classroom are now mainstreamed with normal kids. Which results in absolute chaos in the classroom.

I can go either way depending on the parent. Many parents have their doctor give their child a false IEP so they can have the school pay for a private school.

IEPs and such to collect disability!

Higher education isn't dying in most of the world. Americans can't get their shit together to properly fund public education through the Bachelor (university) diploma.

“ OP you said you retrained as.a pharmacy assistant, but that job only requires a HS diploma and average pay is like $28,000. Is teaching that goddamn bad?‘

A different poster took this route, not the OP.

To all of you teachers who really cared about their students: Thank YOU! My perspective is on the parents' side and I really appreciate reading these accounts. When my two were in school, both private and public, I always tried to volunteer in their classes once a week, basically to see if they or their teachers had problems I could help with. I found problems from both sides. Each of my two had minor learning difficulties and I felt guilty when they didn't behave. They had IEPs and I feel like I really had to be their advocate so they could have teachers who were a good fit for them. This was in the '90s. Everyone knew who and where the best teachers were, so I steered my boys to their classes and schools. I enjoyed my time helping these awesome teachers. In return, both boys got diplomas and are doing pretty well in their thirties now. My point is I guess, teachers are stuck with, for better and worse, their students for a third of their lives - and students as well, visa versa. I haven't been in a classroom in many years, but it feels, at least in the U.S., that we have reached a crisis or a tipping point where teachers and students are not very safe. I don't know the answer, but I appreciate hearing accounts from teachers here. I wonder if teachers find that the attitudes of their students, both good and bad, generally reflect the attitudes of their parents? Keep posting and thanks for your work.

R145, I teach at a Waldorf School. We stick with the one class for 8 years. Obviously, in 8 years, I get to know the student very well. I really hate the label of IEP. If one works with the IEP, teaching them is a wonderful experience. In many ways, they are a gift because they prevent you from teaching the lesson plan. The teacher has to adapt and innovate to serve the student.

Every student with an IEP that was difficult had problem parents. Either they were in denial about the IEP, were having marriage issues, etc. or simply would not follow the plan of support.

R32...I'm guessing that these salaries are in New Jersey...especially in the affluent suburban areas? Wow..

R146, do you think 8 years with the same teacher is a good plan? What’s the typical classroom size?

And how do you judge those teachers to be mediocre, R138? Have you observed them teaching? Or are you generalizing based on test scores and graduation rates? Those numbers are truly meaningless because they don't take into account where students are when they come in. If I teach sixth grade and a student enters at a 1st grade reading level (sadly, it happens a lot), he is "far below standard," If I hustle and work with him and get three years' growth in one year, and he tests at end of 4th grade level, he is "far below standard" and I'm a bad teacher... Back in the old days, we used to set the goal of students demonstrating one month of growth for each month of instruction. Now, our high-stakes testing programs make it near-impossible to show real growth in ability because they only test one time, in the early spring. Yes, that means students are tested on the entire year's standards, even though there are still two or three months of school left. It also means that most students switch off after the testing is done, so those final months are a complete waste. Add that to the usual summer loss (who reads or does math over the summer these days?), and you start each year with remedial work for kids who are way behind -and this is without Covid.

The suburbs are where the entitled live -not the inner cities. R138 sees mediocre teachers where I see mediocre students.

The PTA and room moms here in suburbs Texas are all up about rimming the teachers and extorting parents with highly-specific teacher gift lists ("Favorite meal from Chikfila", Favorite Bath & Body Works fragrances", "Favorite Starbucks drink", Amazon Wishlist ID, etc.) and fundraisers, (classroom gifts are another thing) so their kids get the plumb teachers and classes with their cliques where they can ice out the others whose parents don't play the PTA game.

I don't know where the money goes, the school doesn't want for much, as another Texan mentioned upthread, they get a shit load of tax money. I know they buy carts of junk food for the teachers, and obligatory not-yet-ripe fruit trays that must cost a fortune (and go untouched).

suburban*^

[quote]Higher education is dying.

But tuition is now insanely high. Why does none of that filter down to the profs and adjuncts?

R152 Many universities are grant factories, with up to 200 grant writers working on fundraising campaigns in the hundreds of millions of dollars, sometimes more.

A lot of money goes to capital projects, like mock stock exchanges and black box theaters and things like that.

It’s a strange business, not always about the quality of learning per se.

[quote] i wonder if teachers find that the attitudes of their students, both good and bad, generally reflect the attitudes of their parents?

9/10, the parents who showed up had kids who NEVER caused a problem. There’s a direct correlation between parental involvement and student behavior.

[quote] The school board decided mainstreaming the students was the right thing to do so they wouldn’t have be “different”. They went to great lengths to hear everyone’s voice on the matter, including the students, who made it very clear that they wanted to stay were they were. Their parents said the same thing. They felt safe there. The board chose to close the school and mainstream them.

I found that special ed kids did better in their own classes. Kids can be breathtakingly cruel. Let them find a peer can’t read at grade level? Its not pretty.

On the other hand: having a group of kids in a room where they ALL have a disability and they can be braver and take more chances. I’d have kids fighting to be the next one to read because they feel safe trying.

[quote] It was always financial no matter what they claimed. It’s cheaper to close a school then add more students somewhere else.

When my school closed its special-ed class, this was why. I watched many of those kids flounder in general-ed classes.

OP - I haven't read any posts except for yours but wanted to write this to you. Way back around 1989 or thereabouts, a friend's husband used to teach at a Catholic high school. He told me the story about a policeman visiting his school to do various presentations to the kids about safety, etc. Anyway, apparently according to this friend's husband, a policeman walked up to him after this particular visit, and told him straight: You couldn't pay me to work with students.

This was at a time of rising violence, petty crimes, verbal use towards teachers. Yes, nothing compared to how it is now, but wanted to relay this comment as a sort of confirmation of the incredibly challenging work environment in which teachers operate.

People think it’s some sort of rite of passage to be an asshole to teachers, so they see it as normal/part of the job description. Then they whine about the quality of education. It’s similar to asshole customers who complain about bad customer service when they are shitty to everyone they talk to. There’s a correlation—you get what you deserve.

I thought of this thread when I saw this video. OP, there have probably been a lot of quiet or shy students in your classes over the years that you made a big impression on and you just didn’t know it.

R157 I think anyone who loves teaching does it for that reason. Good teaching is more like a vocation. Unfortunately the career is becoming so toxic for a variety of social reasons that it’s unsustainable for anyone who values their health and sanity. No teacher should sacrifice their well being for all the warm fuzzies in the world. The price is too high now.

*Given

I was an Air Force brat and went to school on military bases when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. If you got in trouble more than once, the school called your dad’s commanding officer, who then reprimanded your father. There was NO issue with bullying or abuse in those schools.

When my dad retired and I had to go to a public high school, I went into shock. I’d never seen students who talked back to their teachers or skipped classes or hated education in general. I stopped learning from that point on. Schools shouldn’t have to be disciplinarians. Kick the students out and let the parents deal with them. It wasted so much time, and it clearly exhausted the teachers, who seemed completely disenchanted with even the idea of teaching.

And that was back then. My sympathies go to any teacher dealing with it now. It must be a fucking miserable and demoralising life.

It’s sad because the good teachers either opt out or get worn down. I knew two teachers that had nervous breakdowns and literally couldn’t return to the classroom. Most of the patents are MIA and even if you called home, you either didn’t have a working number or got some parent armchair quarterbacking you. When I left teaching, the school gave me a service plaque and I tossed it in the garbage the day I left. I know that sounds terrible, but I seriously felt like a war veteran who joined am idealistic patriot and left a cynical solider with PTSD. I wanted those years of my life back. Anyone who teaches today needs to be loyal to themselves first.

If your students are disrespectful, it's like being a prison guard. If your students are reasonably nice, it can be very pleasant. Just remember:

You are not responsible for your students' ability to learn and do not accept that responsibility. If someone needs tutoring, make the referral but don't do it yourself.

People will only notice the job you're doing if something goes wrong. You get no praise for doing a good job, and virtually no one R to hear about that cool thing you came up with.

Never allow yourself the luxury of sarcasm or losing your temper. That applies to students, their parents and all your colleagues. Words wound.

You can never give your students enough praise,

Never assume students comprehend what you're saying. You cannot make things too simple.

You are only seeing a tiny portion of your student. Don't assume you know them.

Always maintain your boundaries. Never pander to students or try to impress them with how cool you are.

Stay until you're vested.

Apply rules consistently. Students hate teachers who play favorites.

Pray never to get a student with oppositional defiant disorder. I've had four. If a student starts to harangue you, the conversation is over. You are not paid to take abuse.

The most manipulative kids usually have a hidden learning disability.

Care less. You may have to take work home but you don't have to take the job home.

Excellent advice, R162.

This thread has been fascinating. My mom just told me that my niece has decided, after years of unsuccessfully pursuing her dream job, to do a master's in education and become a teacher. I wanted to scream, "Don't do it!"

I can’t fathom anyone going into teaching today, not with the current challenges. Things have only gotten worse in the 21 years I’ve taught.

R164 I always recommend people who want to teach go and observe the grade/subject they want to teach for at least a whole day. If they do that and say they want to do that day in, day out, great. Too many people watch movies and TV shows and think they are going to have twelve kids who are all diamonds in the rough. Teaching is not an episode of Glee.

I was academically gifted and did some tutoring in high school. I hated it. My mom wanted me to be a teacher, but even then I realized I do not have the patience.

Teaching conditions are fine in many countries. Sorry so much of the USA has gone to hell in a hand basket. I went to school in USA in 60s and 70s and it seemed like public school paradise. What happened?

I have some German colleagues who express anger at students. I can't imagine they get results. I call out shoddy attention free work very clearly but in a friendly way and encourage them to use their skills to do it well - at least for a successful result. Which helps them and me. Many students cannot receive this message unless it is 1-1. You have to explain it directly to that student and a few times even. Finally it will sink in. These are the types who will rarely become natural and curious learners, but they do take the direct suggestion to pass courses and make everyone's lives less complicated. Its what we want to see on the job later on.

I left teaching in the USA and went international and love it. I make more money, I work hard, and I don't have to put up with the stuff going on in the US. I also am saving a lot of money because where I live things are cheap and my lifestyle is better than in the US.

Just go bitch. We're tired this damn thread.

No one is forcing you to read this, R171,

Theorists fall over themselves praising small group activity. From what I can see, maybe two people do the work in a given group while the other slugs check their phone messages. I was recently told that requiring college students to read history books is oppressive and that a slide show should be sufficient, but no more than ten slides please

. I'm at a school that is desperate to raise its graduation rates, and the only way they can do that is, apparently, to dumb down the curriculum and pass everyone who shows up for lass. Next semester is my last and I'm relieved because I can't take much more of this.

The Asian countries will eat our lunch. The foreign students I teach are disciplined, organized, highly motivated and don't expect a round of applause for getting up in the morning. They also are capable of feeling shame, which oddly enough motivates them to work even harder. I don't think we're honest with most students. We're not able to say "this isn't very good" when sometimes that is exactly what the student needs to hear.

Yep, this is the result of little monsters who know they wont get into any kind of trouble. BLAME THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. This kind of crap didnt happen 40 yrs ago.

R66 i would only that a firefighter WOULD make more money ???? Are youso self involved that you dont understand that firefighters risk their lives. Try being a firefighter fir a month then come back here and whine.

No one has it harder than teachers and nurses.

They’ll be happy to tell you all about it.

I'm not saying no one has it harder than teachers. But we see all of society's fault lines. We're at the mercy of stupid bureaucrats and academics, who regularly tell us everything we're doing is wrong and whose bright new ideas absolve students and their parents of any responsibility for their education. The easiest way to get through the day is through grade inflation and social promotion. I'm not recommending this but I've never seen anyone get in trouble because their classes are too easy, only because they're too hard.

It’s beginning.

I second and third what everyone has said above. I am ready to move to elementary again after teaching high school.. I am fed up.

Honestly it has been an educational holding pen for too long. Teachers are tired of being responsible for teaching and warehousing asshole kids and failing at both. Let them find new societal scapegoats.

R106, you think that's bad? There was a student at the for-profit I worked at that failed all 5 classes 2 terms in a row and they still did not kick her out! When I brought this up to my department head, he said "I know, but she needs to be giving a chance and school policy allows for 3 consecutive terms of straight F before they could do something about it.

[quote]Are youso self involved that you dont understand that firefighters risk their lives. Try being a firefighter fir a month then come back here and whine.

No one is whining, except you. It's their job, they signed up for it, not a draft. It not a desk job, they wanted that kind of excitement. I don't see why they are paid so much when most of the time 90% is just hanging out at the fire station. Plus they get a lifetime pension and retire at 50. They cant save all that money in a 401K like the rest of us? At least Nurses and Doctors work their ass off every hour of every day.

[R171] I'm not a teacher and I'm not tired of this thread. You go, Bitch!

I worked as a court transcriptionist for a couple of years. I heard from owners of transcriptionist companies that their clients (lawyers) were complaining that current back of lawyers are barely literate. They are seeing a downward trend in literacy levels and are integrating communications courses for newly minted lawyers joining law firms for first time. They are blaming this poor show of communication skills on universities.

I've been homeschooling my now-eight year old second grader since the first shut-downs (age 6, kindergarten) and I don't want to send him back.

There are lots of opportunities to socialize if one lives in a metropolitan area-- wildlife refuges and Parks and Rec departments have classes, camps and events during 'school hours' just for these kids. He's doing great academically and he's not afraid of people at all despite his mom being a terminal Datalounger.

Is public school still worth it to the kids? This perception that homeschooled are unsocialized would have been valid 25 years ago, but I am not sure I want my kid 'socialized' the way things are now. The out-of-control kids run the classroom and everything else is a shakedown for the cushy PTA, lots of Chick-fil-A and other consumerism promoted in the schools (Texas) etc.

I'm not sure what the point is.

R184- Waldorf School

[quote] Never allow yourself the luxury of sarcasm or losing your temper. That applies to students, their parents and all your colleagues. Words wound.

‘Losing your temper’ I’ll go along with, but sarcasm? Its my bread and butter, and….they LOVE it! The little bastards NEVER get the last word it on me. Of course, there’s a way to do it that doesn’t convey hidden anger, which is what i think most sarcasm is

Your other points at r162 are excellent.

[quote] There are lots of opportunities to socialize if one lives in a metropolitan area-- wildlife refuges and Parks and Rec departments have classes, camps and events during 'school hours' just for these kids. He's doing great academically and he's not afraid of people at all despite his mom being a terminal Datalounger. Is public school still worth it to the kids? This perception that homeschooled are unsocialized would have been valid 25 years ago, but I am not sure I want my kid 'socialized' the way things are now. The out-of-control kids run the classroom

You sound great, especially with the emphasis on other means to socialize, but when he hits high school, you may find subjects that are beyond you. Maybe tutors?

I say it every year, but I feel I’m constantly lowering the bar. At the same time, the government has made the curriculum harder. Our new math curriculum, introduced this past year in the midst of a pandemic(!), is very difficult.

It’s quick fixism—standardize testing, lowering/raising the bar, holistic learning, etc It’s always a solution that never addresses the real problem, and puts it back on the teacher/school. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

[quote] I've been homeschooling my now-eight year old second grader since the first shut-downs (age 6, kindergarten) and I don't want to send him back. There are lots of opportunities to socialize if one lives in a metropolitan area.

Bad idea. He's going to end up like a freak. Taking him to outside events to "socialize" is not the same as daily interaction with the real word. He will get a distorted view of the world with someone helicoptering over every move ready to jump in to protect him/her. Plus in public school, they will get overexposeure to all types of people, not just the highly curated one you are creating for them by taking them to select outside groups.

I wonder what ever happened to OP. I'd like to hear what's happened since he quit a month ago (supposedly).

People I know who were home skilled have gaps in the social skills,.

*their

True. Homeschooled kids have a very hard time dealing with mouth breathing hillbillies who apparently make up 70% of the general population.

So, if you anticipate your kid having a lifetime of dealing with semi-reatards…

[quote] It’s quick fixism—standardize testing, lowering/raising the bar, holistic learning, etc It’s always a solution that never addresses the real problem, and puts it back on the teacher/school. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

When i started teaching, someone told me education is just fashion with master’s degrees: one year the hemlines are up, next they’re down. There’s always some new method/technique/program that will fix everything. (Spoiler alert: it NEVER does!)

While I see the advantages of homeschooling (more individual attention, etc.), there are drawbacks as well. Schools have problems, yes, but socialization is so important. You don’t get that at home. Children need to learn how to deal with other people. It’s a very important life skill. They also need to become independent from their parents. Not every parent can teach either. It’s a skill.

Come over to my Illinois home. We can drink Evian and listen to jazz.

How the fuck do all of you know that Homeschooling is bad for a kid and should not be done?

I have been a teacher/admin for 30 years, homeschooling is fine and can actually benefit a student in the long run. Schools are brutal.

there are tons of groups/activities now. it is a whole industry.

R198 is correct. First home-schooled children have a right to take elective classes at a public school. Many home-schooled children still take music, theater, art, etc. at their local public school. Home-schooled children still go to summer camp, participate in choirs, attend church, and participate in other group acclivities. It is quite common for Home-school parents to co-teach. If one parent is great at math, he will take the math block for all home-schooled children in their pod. Same with foreign languages.

[quote]You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear

Not according the the shitty For-Profit school I worked for a couple years. It was a big for-profit art school chain with over 100 campuses across the US. I was recruited to teach a couple of classes because of my real wold industry background. What a mistake that was. Most real art schools require a portfolio to get in. I just assumed they would have the same policy but I was wrong. They let every single loser with bad grades who couldn't get into a regular college or university to suddenly become a "creative". No portfolio required, as long as you qualified for a student loan you were in.

So the end result was a hand full of students with raw talent, but the vast majority just had no where else to go. All of them are probably still in deep debt and unemployed because jobs in the creative fields are highly competitive and over saturated with really high quality talent. There just are not enough jobs even in good times.

Of course many of us on the teaching side of the equation tried to speak up and change that "no portfolio required" routine, but corporate would not budge. They were not going to turn away any student who could enrich their bottom line. Their BS excuse was that everyone deserves a chance, completely ignoring that talent is not something that can be taught.

Karma finally came around and took the whole chain down in some recruiting scandal. A lawsuit brought by the US government for over a billion dollars took them down a few notches until word got out they sucked.