What is the name of the impediment. when a person says Im-POR-Int for Important and Man-HA-in for Manhattan? A NYC Dept of Health exec encourages people to be vaxxed, telling us it's "Im-POR-int."
Question for Speech Pathologist
by Anonymous | reply 142 | October 26, 2021 11:59 PM |
I'm not speech pathologist, but surely it's just an accent. I first noticed it in a white coworker who grew up in Brooklyn, but I hear it more in black speech.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | October 20, 2021 5:48 PM |
On a related note, I know a woman who cannot pronounce the word "our" - her speech is otherwise fairly normal. I thought she had some regional accent, but this thread leads me to believe it's not that.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | October 20, 2021 5:48 PM |
It’s a glottal stop, op.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | October 20, 2021 5:49 PM |
It used to drive me insane when Gina would say "MAR-in" on the show Martin. (Lawrence). I also hate it when people say "im-POR-Dant. It's not a speech impediment, just irritating as fuck. Kind of like how Drew Barrymore speaks out of the side of her mouth. She didn't actually have a stroke or Bell's palsy, she just got into the habit of doing it.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | October 20, 2021 5:49 PM |
If your talking about Dr. Easterling that man can pronounce anything anyway he wants. What a side of beef he is.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | October 20, 2021 6:26 PM |
Some people from NYC have a weird way of saying ‘school’ or things with that type of oo sound.
Like they drag it out but every other word is “normal”
Anybody know what I’m talking about?
Lil Mo does it.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | October 20, 2021 6:58 PM |
My guido friend from Bensonhurst (now Staten Island) says “Man-HA-in.”
by Anonymous | reply 7 | October 20, 2021 7:01 PM |
It's just accent and usually it's young white women who lead the new speech patterns and trends, Google will tell you a lot.
I hate the bookish highly enunciated way many, mostly for now, young women say things like did-dent gar-den etc, every syllable is pronounced painstakingly.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | October 20, 2021 7:03 PM |
These mispronunciations need to be beaten out of those who say the words incorrectly.
Next time you hear one of them, OP, bitchslap the speaker.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | October 20, 2021 7:07 PM |
The umbrella term for the general category is "phonological change" - when changes occur in pronunciation patterns.
Dropping syllables is typical of the way languages evolve over time.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | October 20, 2021 7:08 PM |
Glottal shtop?
by Anonymous | reply 11 | October 20, 2021 7:08 PM |
People from Lonk Guyland do this.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | October 20, 2021 7:32 PM |
People just speak like this because they think it's cute. It's like people who say BUH-IN for button. My stupid coworker has just suddenly starting pronouncing it that way, when the whole 12 years we've worked together, she pronounced it correctly.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | October 20, 2021 7:34 PM |
Glottal Stop is correct. It's all over the US. Frequently heard on NPR in combination with vocal fry.
It's not limited to the US. It's all over the UK and is a feature of Cockney English.
It can appear as part of an accent, or as part of the phonetic structure of a language. And it appears in a LOT of different languages.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | October 20, 2021 7:38 PM |
Stupidity.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | October 20, 2021 7:39 PM |
Some people say “buddin,” with an obvious D sound.
Frankly, “BUH-in” sounds most natural to me, with a very soft or silent but implied T sound. Do people actually go around saying “buTT-on”?
by Anonymous | reply 16 | October 20, 2021 7:39 PM |
[quote]Do people actually go around saying “buTT-on”?
Fuck yes! That is how the word is properly pronounced. If you want to be heard, keep the air going forward.
by Anonymous | reply 17 | October 20, 2021 7:49 PM |
R16 Yes, non-retarded people say button.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | October 20, 2021 7:52 PM |
I would write the standard pronunciation as BUT-n (second syllable as n-sound with no vowel).
by Anonymous | reply 19 | October 20, 2021 7:57 PM |
Yes, it's a glottal stop, but IMO the larger issue is obliterating the consonant sound. It's a fucking double consonant, a lot of times, for God's sake. (Manhattan.)
On Real Housewives of NY, Carol Radziwill would say "kitten" like this "ki'in." I don't know why. IMO, it's not cute.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | October 20, 2021 7:57 PM |
And you would be wrong, R19.
NOT standard. You have described a non-standard regional pronunciation.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | October 20, 2021 7:58 PM |
This isn't really a speech impediment. It's a choice (maybe learned) to remove a consonant sound. It's a regional or trendyway of saying something. The same person who says "Manha'an" (Manhattan) would be able to say "tomato" and enunciate two separate T sounds.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | October 20, 2021 8:01 PM |
Hearing someone hard-pronouncing the Ts in ‘button’ makes me think of a Mary Poppins type of person. Or like a schoolteacher trying to emphasize for 1st graders how words should be pronounced.
Reminiscent of people who always enunciate the ‘-ing’ at the end of gerunds, never shortening it to ‘-in’. Dorks and fruitcakes, basically.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | October 20, 2021 8:08 PM |
OP, it's just the New York accent. No real New Yorker would ever pronounce the T sound in Manhattan, including the well-educated ones.
by Anonymous | reply 24 | October 20, 2021 8:26 PM |
My friend from New Jersey talks like this, not as an affectation.
A similar pronunciation tic I hear further south in the Mid-Atlantic is with “-ing” words. Not dropping the g as if you’re from the country, but pronouncing it more like “een” - “let’s go walking” pronounced “let’s go walkeen.”
by Anonymous | reply 25 | October 20, 2021 8:31 PM |
You can hear this stupidity only in the US.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | October 20, 2021 8:34 PM |
I hear im-por-TANT a lot, which is not how I learned to pronounce the word.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | October 20, 2021 9:28 PM |
Is it now acceptable to pronounce the T in "often"?
by Anonymous | reply 29 | October 20, 2021 9:34 PM |
One of the hosts on QVC (botoxed and filled to the max) pronounces it "imporDant." Another can't - or won't - pronounce the letter L. She says "code" for cold or "cawed" for called, etc. Many of the vendors also say things like "buh'in" in stead of button, etc.
It sounds like affectations.
It's bizarre that a business relying on salespeople who can talk nonstop would hire those who can't or won't speak properly.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | October 20, 2021 9:49 PM |
People who insist on a hard T must be Brits. Button and Manhattan are not pronounced that way in American English.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | October 20, 2021 10:01 PM |
I will shank anyone who says Real-A-tor.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | October 20, 2021 10:04 PM |
OP here, thanks R3 for Glottal Stop. I knew it wasn't a local accent.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | October 20, 2021 10:24 PM |
R29 It's not acceptable to pronounce the "T." Here's an easy remindert .. If You Can Say Soften, You Can Say Often."
by Anonymous | reply 34 | October 20, 2021 10:30 PM |
Another mispronunciation I'm reminded of is "little," when sung. It should be LIT-ul. Too many sing it as two syllabels .... LIT-TUL.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | October 20, 2021 10:34 PM |
R34 = William Safire
by Anonymous | reply 36 | October 20, 2021 10:51 PM |
It’s just regional. Nobody from the Bay Area pronounces hard consonants in the middle of words and every word melts together, for example. T-glottalization is the norm and not a speech impediment. In fact, I can’t think of anyone under the age of 70 who hits their Ts violently. That sounds pretentious, as if one is trying to compensate for childhood speech issues.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | October 20, 2021 11:07 PM |
Is saying wahdur for water, bad?
by Anonymous | reply 38 | October 21, 2021 12:05 AM |
[quote] People who insist on a hard T must be Brits. Button and Manhattan are not pronounced that way in American English.
Thank you. I don’t know what the hell R17 and R18 were on about.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | October 21, 2021 12:25 AM |
Rather than the crap shoot of finding a speech pathologist on the datalounge, I’d’ve power walked my Fanny to my local libary, heck, even Alexa may have been able to answer your question without weaponizing it through a politisexual prism.
by Anonymous | reply 40 | October 21, 2021 12:33 AM |
Yes, its stupidity born from poor education. After all, the USA ranks last in the developed world in education.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | October 21, 2021 12:40 AM |
[quote] libary
It’s liberry.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | October 21, 2021 12:41 AM |
R29 No. Someone who pronounces the ‘t’ in ‘often’ is trying overly hard to sound educated. That pronunciation marks the speaker out as terribly nouveau, and has the opposite of the desired effect.
by Anonymous | reply 43 | October 21, 2021 12:48 AM |
The founder of Harry's Razors pronounces the name "Hairys" Some people think Merry and Mary are the same. They need a vowel adjustment.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | October 21, 2021 12:56 AM |
r43 Uh no, the desired effect is to speak properly.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | October 21, 2021 12:57 AM |
That's a regional dialect. With a little low class thrown in.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | October 21, 2021 12:59 AM |
It's like the lower classes in Britain who pronounce "isn't it" as "init", or American blacks who pronounce "alright" as "ahight". It's a dialect based on vocal laziness.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | October 21, 2021 1:01 AM |
But it’s not “low class”. The wealthiest “classiest” groups of Americans don’t over enunciate T, and haven’t for generations. People who do sound insecure, as if they are trying to imitate some culture they have only witnessed on Frasier. People who want you to think they have an education, class, and money, but have none of those cultural currencies are who pronounce “often” with a T. Actual educated “upper class” individuals scoff at this lower class pretense.
by Anonymous | reply 48 | October 21, 2021 1:12 AM |
[Quote]The wealthiest “classiest” groups of Americans don’t over enunciate T,
To pronounce the T is not to over rnunciate anything. Aren't your vittles getting cold?
by Anonymous | reply 50 | October 21, 2021 1:16 AM |
There was a time when all broadcasters understood that NEWS rhymed with views and cues. Today we hear network announcers says "CBS Nooz."
by Anonymous | reply 51 | October 21, 2021 1:41 AM |
That would sound incredibly pretentious, R51, to pronounce ‘news’ like ‘views’.
[quote] The founder of Harry's Razors pronounces the name "Hairys" Some people think Merry and Mary are the same. They need a vowel adjustment.
All those vowel sounds are the same to me. It also sounds odd to me when I encounter someone who pronounces ‘bury’ like ‘worry’ instead of ‘berry’.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | October 21, 2021 1:52 AM |
Cut the anti-elite bullshit offered to justify your poor educations and your lazy speech. You sound like a bunch of fucking Republicans.
Just listen to Arlene. Let her be your guide. Pay special attention to how to properly pronounce "chiffon."
by Anonymous | reply 53 | October 21, 2021 1:53 AM |
And by the way, I’ve heard maybe 2 or 3 people in my life pronounce ‘bury’ like ‘worry’.
Can someone explain what the subtle difference is suppose to be between ‘hairy’ and ‘Harry’? I have never heard anyone pronounce them in anything but an identical way.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | October 21, 2021 1:54 AM |
R53, I’m assuming you’re joking…
If not, yikes!
by Anonymous | reply 55 | October 21, 2021 1:55 AM |
What does it mean that I still cannot pronounce the word rural?
by Anonymous | reply 56 | October 21, 2021 1:58 AM |
R56 I cannot say rural or Rory clearly.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | October 21, 2021 2:00 AM |
R54, go to Philadelphia and South Jersey and you will hear "ferry" pronounced "furry."
The vowel in "hairy" is phonated much farther forwarded in the mouth than the vowel in "Harry."
by Anonymous | reply 58 | October 21, 2021 2:01 AM |
[quote] ‘hairy’ and ‘Harry’
Hairy should be pronounced with a along A. Harry should be pronounced with a short a.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | October 21, 2021 2:02 AM |
Okay, folks... Here you go:
The letter T is a stop, not a glottal stop. A glottal stop happens further back in the throat, like the transition in uh-oh.
The phenomenon of dropping letters or sounds is called elision. Elision is common in English in the form of contractions. Elision (or deletion) of the letter T is fairly common on some regional accents outside the US, but actually fairly rare inside the US. It most likely happens before the letter N, like in the word kitten.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | October 21, 2021 2:13 AM |
No, R59. Not a long "a" in hairy.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | October 21, 2021 2:15 AM |
[quote] Hairy should be pronounced with a along A. Harry should be pronounced with a short a.
This just seems like a bizarre distinction to make (not your fault!), and incredibly awkward to try to insert a long A sound into ‘hairy’.
The word ‘dairy’ doesn’t seem to have what I would consider a long A sound. It rhymes with ‘carry’, doesn’t it?
by Anonymous | reply 62 | October 21, 2021 2:17 AM |
I can't believe some here don't know the difference between the pronunciation of Harry vs hairy.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | October 21, 2021 2:18 AM |
^^ I wouldn’t be surprised if a poll was conducted and found that most people don’t know there’s supposed to be a difference between Harry and hairy. I just never hear people pronounce them differently.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | October 21, 2021 2:20 AM |
What about the word ‘harried’? Is it pronounced like Harry, or hairy?
by Anonymous | reply 65 | October 21, 2021 2:20 AM |
Do salmon next!
by Anonymous | reply 66 | October 21, 2021 2:28 AM |
I’ve only ever heard non-native English speakers pronounce the ‘l’ in ‘salmon’.
by Anonymous | reply 67 | October 21, 2021 2:33 AM |
R66 My father has always pronounced it “sal-mon.” He has a very formal way of speaking and constantly corrected our grammar growing up, so this mispronounciation (?) puzzles the whole family.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | October 21, 2021 2:34 AM |
I liked this reply on another site:
[quote]I know this is an old post now, I wish I had been here to discuss this...so I will now, in case anyone wants to know, to include the author.
[quote]The Californian who answered that Harry and Hairy sound the same to him (and the PA person too) were right that in the majority of American dialects, the vowel sound in both of those words has become [ɛʌ], making both of those words sound like [hɛʌri]. It's a quick diphthong for them.
[quote]Now, where I am from- the metro New York area- we pronounce them quite differently. Harry = [hæri] and Hairy = [hɛʌri]. As far as I can tell from my studies, travels, interstate moves, and friends from other areas, the ONLY parts of the the US that recognize the distinction are metro NY and the northern half of New Jersey. Funny, growing up I thought it was normal, but when I went to college in Connecticut and then lived around the South, I got laughed at for making that distinction. Anyway, I like the distinction, and consider it correct, especially since it is distinguished in England to this day.
[quote]A second example of a distinction you will only see in metro New York is Mary/marry/merry. Most of the US considers those all to be [mɛʌri] but for me, they are three completely distinct words:
[quote]Mary = [mɛʌri] [quote]marry = [mæri] [quote]merry = [mɛri]
[quote]A complicated language, to be sure.
R63, where are you from?
by Anonymous | reply 69 | October 21, 2021 2:40 AM |
What about caramel everyone???
by Anonymous | reply 70 | October 21, 2021 2:46 AM |
Car-mel corn
Car-a-mel sauce
by Anonymous | reply 71 | October 21, 2021 2:47 AM |
^^ I have heard the word caramelized pronounced as carmelized more than a few times.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | October 21, 2021 2:52 AM |
I have never heard the word ‘caramelized’ pronounced with 4 syllables.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | October 21, 2021 2:53 AM |
R60 - followers of Nicki Minaj or Cardi B are all about the glottal break. It’s a thing now.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | October 21, 2021 2:56 AM |
A friend of mine pronounces the word ‘egg’ with a long A sound. Is she crazy?
She also pronounces ‘milk’ like ‘melk’.
by Anonymous | reply 75 | October 21, 2021 2:59 AM |
Google the word R72, and click the sound icon. It's four syllables. I was watching a cooking segment on TV earlier today, and that's the way the chef pronounced it as well.
by Anonymous | reply 76 | October 21, 2021 2:59 AM |
If you want to really parse someone’s speech, listen to and hour of The Pet Shop Boys. It ranges from repeating hard consonants to slurred ones.
“ .. I wanTT TTo wake up .. “
And “to do” becomes “to Loo”
by Anonymous | reply 77 | October 21, 2021 3:03 AM |
[quote] Google the word...
I meant that post for R73.
by Anonymous | reply 78 | October 21, 2021 3:10 AM |
R60, when describing physical distance. the correct word is "farther." "Farther back in the throat. "Easy to remember, begins with "far."
by Anonymous | reply 79 | October 21, 2021 12:45 PM |
R52, Pretentious? Maybe where you live in Bumfucke, but not with well-educated people.
by Anonymous | reply 80 | October 21, 2021 12:50 PM |
Would a thread like this work if we had questions for a sex therapist or would every Tom, Dick and Harry just give their opinions?
by Anonymous | reply 81 | October 21, 2021 12:52 PM |
R80, I live in NYC in the year 2021.
There’s a lot of classism in this thread from posters who think everyone should speak like society people from the 1950s and if we don’t, then we must be Republicans or living in some backwater town.
Old pronunciations for a lot of these words have mostly died out. I can empathize with the people who are upset about this, because I agree, broadly, that the old ways were better. I am generally opposed to the evolution of language. Certain DLers are gung-ho about that, however—“Language has always evolved, it’s a wondrous thing, it’s BEAUTIFUL that ignoramuses don’t understand certain idioms and words and have now bastardized them to the point that the malaprop version is becoming standard…”
I’m not one of those people! But it just isn’t accurate to say that ‘hairy’ and ‘Harry’ are pronounced differently and that people who don’t understand this are deficient in some way. Those words are pronounced different from each other in Britain and in the NYC metro area, and that’s it. The rest of N America, including Canada, does not pronounce them differently.
Same with ‘tour’— no doubt certain people are sure it’s pronounced like ‘tore’, and that that’s the only correct way to pronounce it, but there are regional variations all over the country. No doubt just as many, if not more, pronounce it as ‘too-er’, with two syllables.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | October 21, 2021 1:06 PM |
Let’s discuss Houston.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | October 21, 2021 1:08 PM |
[quote]Elision (or deletion) of the letter T is fairly common on some regional accents outside the US, but actually fairly rare inside the US.
You're a piss poor linguist, R60. The glottal stop is widespread in the US. Mou'un. Fou'un. Cer'ain. Impor'ant. Buh'un. Threa'un. Wri'un. Cur'un.
Listen - carefully - to broadcasts on radio and television - especially local broadcasts - and the glottal stop is constantly served up. Only cer'ain speakers will be doing, though. And when they do it, they always do it. It's the regional accent they learned. And no one on the faculty of their silly state university broadcast or communications programs bothered to make them fix it.
It's just a habit. A good speech teacher can point it out to them. As should any good station manager. Many of their listeners could do it, too. Then the speakers just have to discipline themselves to get rid of the goddamned thing.
by Anonymous | reply 84 | October 21, 2021 1:16 PM |
I don’t care about any of these pronunciations as long as vocal fry exists, let’s conquer that first and then we can sort this out.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | October 21, 2021 1:19 PM |
To-ron'-To
by Anonymous | reply 86 | October 21, 2021 1:25 PM |
My parents (born and raised in NYC) have an accent. I too was born and raised in NYC, but I don't have one. If I do, its not as pronounced. So, ya...I make fun of them.
by Anonymous | reply 87 | October 21, 2021 1:35 PM |
Try to place "Man Ha en, bu en" thats Manatten and button. I lived and worked in the area around Hartford CT and south. and some people had the accent so strongly that I couldn't nderstand rhem.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | October 21, 2021 2:44 PM |
That pronunciation of ‘button’ is common everywhere in North America, R88.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | October 21, 2021 2:45 PM |
Most of you come from trash.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | October 21, 2021 2:51 PM |
Yeah, I guess so, R90. That’s just the standard American accent, though.
Watch this video, where a woman clearly enunciates these words we’ve been discussing and explains how the “glottal stop” version works, and how it’s the standard American pronunciation.
Any American who pronounces ‘button’ with clearly emphasized T-sounds is either a fruitcake, a total dork, or a child just beginning to learn how to speak.
Fast forward to 0:30.
by Anonymous | reply 91 | October 21, 2021 2:58 PM |
This is partly why international business and humanitarian organizations don't like to hire Americans. Can't speak or write properly, no foreign language skills and can't find most countries on a world map.
Only the wealthy who have gone to private schools in the US seem to have a shot at a proper education.
by Anonymous | reply 92 | October 21, 2021 3:37 PM |
I think it is closer to elision than a glottal stop, as stated above (on second thought).
Even if you don't say a hard T, notice where your tongue is when you say "Manhattan," the tt part. At least for me, even if I elide or swallow the T sound, my tongue is placed at the roof of my mouth as if saying the T.
Also, "clothes." You don't really enunciate the "th" sound, but for a split second, your tongue is probably up against your top teeth as if saying the "th" sound.
by Anonymous | reply 93 | October 21, 2021 5:03 PM |
[quote]At least for me, even if I elide or swallow the T sound, my tongue is placed at the roof of my mouth as if saying the T.
Then you're not doing a glottal stop. It happens deep in the throat. Your teeth are irrelevant.
by Anonymous | reply 94 | October 21, 2021 5:25 PM |
[quote] This is partly why international business and humanitarian organizations don't like to hire Americans. Can't speak or write properly,
This is ridiculous. You are essentially saying Americans should stick to the British pronunciations of certain words. (But only certain words, of course, like ‘button’.) And if they don’t, that means they haven’t received a proper education and probably won’t be hired by international organizations. Pffft.
If you want to feign a British accent, go right ahead. But that makes YOU the freak, and a pretentious one at that.
by Anonymous | reply 95 | October 21, 2021 5:31 PM |
R60 Where'd you buy that "linguist" certification?
by Anonymous | reply 96 | October 21, 2021 5:34 PM |
Poor R95.
Of course, the quote and the entire post from which it was pulled, have nothing to do with R95's silly, het up diatribe. His use of the word "pretentious" gives it all away. Just more GOP anti-elitist garbage, designed to make the masses feel better about the shitty public school education the tax-cutting GOP has deigned to let them have.
Yes, dear. You know nothing, but you're every bit as good as those who do. Your thoughts are not every bit as good. But you are. Not to worry about that.
by Anonymous | reply 97 | October 21, 2021 5:35 PM |
[quote] Just more GOP anti-elitist garbage
You’re a nutjob. It does not take a Republican anti-elitist to recognize that someone is pretentious.
Which posts were you responding to at R92 anyway?
For the record, I’m a true blue Democrat with zero ties to the GOP or conservatism in general, I live in Brooklyn, and I have a degree in English.
Pull that stick out of your ass and shove your strawman up it, cunt.
by Anonymous | reply 98 | October 21, 2021 5:42 PM |
It's GOP garbage. They've been pushing it for years. You may not know you've adopted it, but clearly you have.
by Anonymous | reply 99 | October 21, 2021 5:43 PM |
The GOP has been pushing the idea that people who affect a British accent—and pretend it’s merely “proper” and all educated people should do it—are pretentious? Really, the *GOP* is behind that idea? It’s Republicans who have conned the majority of Americans into speaking with an unaffected American accent?
Take your goddamn meds and LOG OFF.
by Anonymous | reply 100 | October 21, 2021 5:46 PM |
First of all, standard speech is not 'affecting a British accent.' Take that away and the rest of your post collapses.
Dubya was famous for making decisions with "mah gut." Ivy League schooling, but don't let anyone know that it's a big part of who he is and how he got to the White House. No, no. Eschew education. Deny its importance.
Just rely on your gut and no one will call you pretentious. Don't listen to pretentious scientists when they talk about the need for vaccination against Covid. Just turn to your idiot pastor for help with science and medicien and you'll be fine. And no one will call you pretentious with your fancy airs and education and shit like that.
GOP garbage.
by Anonymous | reply 101 | October 21, 2021 5:53 PM |
“Standard speech”? As defined by whom?
The American English pronunciations as demonstrated in the video at R91 ARE STANDARD in North America.
Not even going to waste my time with the rest of your post, because your entire criticism rests on the idea that anyone not using *British English* pronunciations if certain words is not using “standard speech.” You do realize that’s the main thrust of your argument, yes?
by Anonymous | reply 102 | October 21, 2021 6:04 PM |
P.S. I’m an atheist, and I have been fully vaccinated against Covid since May.
And FUCK YOU for baiting me into responding to your nonsense. Blocking your delusional ass now.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | October 21, 2021 6:06 PM |
R102 believes pronouncing both Ts in Important is Brit-speak.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | October 21, 2021 9:39 PM |
Yeah, because it is, R102. Do you honestly believe in American Standard English, people clearly enunciate both of those Ts?
by Anonymous | reply 105 | October 21, 2021 9:55 PM |
R83, Houston in Texas, pronounced HEW-ston is named for Sam.
Houston in New York (HOW-ston) is for William Houstoun, who's father-in-law who owned lots of property, naming a street for him which was misspelled in city records in the 1800s.
by Anonymous | reply 106 | October 21, 2021 10:48 PM |
I moved from NYC to Hawaii several years ago. Of the new regional dialect, the pronunciation of the soft "T" drives me crazy. The newscasters say that something is very im-por-TANT. There's also pidgin Hawaiian which is something completely different. More like NewYorican.
by Anonymous | reply 107 | October 21, 2021 11:19 PM |
Who pronounces ‘important’ that way, R107? NYers or Hawaiians?
by Anonymous | reply 108 | October 22, 2021 12:01 AM |
What never ceases to astound me about the DL are the posters who firmly believe they, and only they, are in possession of The One True Way.
Who doesn’t understand that there are still regional accents in the US, and certain words are pronounced slightly differently in different parts of the country?
How this obvious and basic fact becomes fodder for class & political warfare is much more interesting to me than If you happen to pronounce pin/pen or hairy/Harry the same way or differently.
MARY! (Not “merry”)
by Anonymous | reply 109 | October 22, 2021 1:58 AM |
In English there is really no correct way to speak, as long as you speak whatever way consistently. The only arbiter are your peers, family, employer, teachers etc. There is no one officiel unlike in French or Spanish to decide. Even old teachers on DL cant control speach.
I was taught to not say the T in often too, but it is so common now that it may become standard. English changes constantly unlike other languages of-Ten do not.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | October 22, 2021 2:48 AM |
R109, As for "One True Way," broadcasters are trained to speak "General American English," On TV stations in the South, reporters and anchors don't have a Southern drawl.
by Anonymous | reply 111 | October 22, 2021 7:59 AM |
I miss the days of Old Hollywood and early TV when the Mid Atlantic accent was the standard elocution training for people working in media. And all on air radio and news journalists spoke the same, and again were trained to do so.
by Anonymous | reply 112 | October 22, 2021 1:07 PM |
R91 - there is a 4th version of the word "cotton" that she did not use as an example - and that's what some of the post are about in this thread.
She described "coTTon", "coDDen" and "coTNN". What she did not describe is "cah-Un" which has more of a grunting sound. So annoying.
by Anonymous | reply 113 | October 22, 2021 10:54 PM |
R108 Hawaiians say im-por-TANT...
by Anonymous | reply 114 | October 22, 2021 11:11 PM |
If you have two words with different pronunciations, they're not "both correct." One is always "preferred" by educated speakers, i.e. Koopon and Kewpon.
by Anonymous | reply 115 | October 23, 2021 3:34 PM |
Usually poor and/or stupid people sound like that.
by Anonymous | reply 116 | October 23, 2021 4:05 PM |
That's elitist BS. A preferred pronunciation by "educated speakers" does not automatically confer incorrectness on a word with multiple pronunciations.
by Anonymous | reply 117 | October 23, 2021 4:08 PM |
For those who are fascinated with the various American accents from the 1950s, watch this 30-minute-long video. The moderator chose six people from various areas of the US, and discussed why all of them spoke the way they did. Apparently, this was a topic of interest even back then.
by Anonymous | reply 118 | October 23, 2021 4:17 PM |
All I know is when I moved from the northeast to the southeast I noticed a few things. For example when I talk to people they cannot figure out where I'm from. I'm from the northeast baby.
by Anonymous | reply 119 | October 23, 2021 4:30 PM |
As long as you understand the person, what's the problem?
by Anonymous | reply 120 | October 23, 2021 4:45 PM |
The problem, R120, is that you can go to a job interview and sound like an educated professional person, or you can sound like the trash collector. You can meet new people in your life and sound like an accomplished and disciplined person, or you can sound like a hick.
Nothing necessarily is wrong with being a hick or sounding like your trash collector. But there are different ways to present yourself to the world and you should be in charge of that, armed with the skills you need to do well. If you went to a business dinner and ate peas off your knife, or pushed food onto a fork with your finger, it would be unlikely to make a favorable impression on your business colleagues. And things like vocal fry and glottal stops analogize to poor table manners. Saying, 'well, as long as I cleaned the plate' misses the point entirely and does not address the problem the poor table manners creates. Same thing with lazy regional speech.
Black and Hispanic professionals long ago learned to code switch, i.e., speak one way at home with family and in casual gatherings with friends, and then employ standard speech in the workplace. It's for many good reasons they do it and it is a valuable skill to have. We have a lot of privileged white Americans here in this thread who insist on being just as good as anyone else (probably better,) without cleaning up their lazy speech. They are just as good. But they don't sound like it. And they've no one to blame but themselves. Every college and university with a theater department, a music department, a communications department, broadcast department... they all have speech teachers. Use them.
by Anonymous | reply 121 | October 23, 2021 5:40 PM |
R121, if it falls within the accepted American English pronunciation, then it’s good enough for a professional setting. You’re talking about pronunciations that are used in professional settings everywhere in North America.
You just have arbitrary standards that are loftier than anyone else’s. No one outside of Great Britain and the NYC metro area is ever going to meet those standards. And fortunately, you aren’t the arbiter of what is proper and you aren’t hiring or firing any of us here.
by Anonymous | reply 122 | October 23, 2021 5:50 PM |
[quote]You just have arbitrary standards that are loftier than anyone else’s.
Simply untrue. And very, very, defensive. I wonder why.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | October 23, 2021 6:04 PM |
R118, thank you! That was really interesting.
I'm going to try to clean up my speech. I just asked my son if he wanted mayonnaise on his veggie burger. Maynaise? Mayonnaise?
by Anonymous | reply 124 | October 23, 2021 6:05 PM |
R121 You are an extremely condescending, pretentious gasbag who lives in an ivory tower.
by Anonymous | reply 125 | October 23, 2021 6:18 PM |
I had a handsome strapping boyfriend from New Jersey who did the improper pronunciation of Manhattan, it tends to be a very Jersey thing, butchered button and kitten too. Those double “T”s just seemed to do him in. He could never understand why he didn’t get promoted at Goldman Sachs despite how hard he worked. I could never bring myself to tell him that part of it was most likely his pronouncement of certain words. He grew up upper middle class, went to a good college, was tall, good looking, outgoing and personable, but if you can’t pronounce the word kitten correctly you’re going be fucked getting ahead in the high end business world.
And not to come off as biased, I grew poor white trash in Pennsylvania, but education and sounding educated was very important to my family. While I had cousins who spoke with a Pennsylvania Dutch inflections, we’re we’re told at an early age that was very uneducated despite being our heritage. My mother being a school teacher recognized that I had a speech impediment by the time I was four and sought to get me speech therapy paid for by the school district since it was very expensive. They said I could wait until I was in Kindergarten, but she said I couldn’t wait that long and lobbied them to provide it. I was the youngest child in the state to get speech therapy before I began school (circa 1969) By the time I entered school I spoke clear enough that students didn’t notice and I did not get teased for it. After years of speech therapy it was all corrected.
I studied Art History and got internships at Museums like The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Brooklyn Museum and IBM Corporate collections and lectured on Art at all three. Once when I was at The National Gallery of Art talking to a friend about a painting a stranger approached and asked if I lectured in the galleries at the Met, because my voice sounded so familiar, distinctive, dedicated and authoritative on art and the recognized me because of it. Multiple times I had people ask me about my background after lecture on art believing that I grew up wealthy in New York surrounded by art and antiques because that’s how I sounded. Little did they know I grew up poor white trash trash with gun racks in the back windows of our car and should have gone hungry many times if not for my father being a hunter and a state college education.
You can hide a lot of your background by speaking correctly and educated and carrying yourself well. Conversely, you can come from wealth and privilege with everything handed to you including a Ivy League education, but if you can speak correctly you can be written off just based on that.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | October 23, 2021 6:31 PM |
*can’t
by Anonymous | reply 127 | October 23, 2021 6:33 PM |
Notice how the presenter in the video no longer speaks the way he used to. I wonder why? That’s because he knows he sounds far more intelligent doing it the British way. He doesn’t sound like a hick from down South.
by Anonymous | reply 128 | October 23, 2021 7:06 PM |
"..but if you can’t pronounce the word kitten correctly you’re going be fucked getting ahead in the high end business world"
So true, R126. Education, work experience, prior success, NONE of those matter at all. It's definitely ALL about the kittens.
by Anonymous | reply 129 | October 23, 2021 9:03 PM |
R126 is a parody post, right? A parody of R121, perhaps?
God, I hope so, because that was hilarious.
by Anonymous | reply 130 | October 23, 2021 9:38 PM |
[Quote]Notice how the presenter in the video no longer speaks the way he used to. I wonder why?
R128 Are you talking about the video in r118? I think, in those days, he never would've been given that type of job if he had spoken in his original accent. I believe it was in the late 1960s or early 1970s when today's General American Accent became the norm among public speakers.
by Anonymous | reply 131 | October 23, 2021 9:45 PM |
Loved both posts @ r121 and r126. He knew what was important to him, and he took care of it. Presentation, accent, carriage, grooming, and dress can make a huge difference in some lines of work.
by Anonymous | reply 132 | October 23, 2021 10:05 PM |
For people who grew up in lower or working class circumstances, have gone to college and aspire to better things, there are classes on how on how to handle yourself in social situations, including proper etiquette when dining out. Before I got a Management job in my Fortune 50 company was taken to lunch, had no clue my table manners were part of the evaluation. Found out later had I salted or peppered food before I ate, it meant I made decisions without the full knowledge of the situation.
by Anonymous | reply 133 | October 23, 2021 10:42 PM |
My partner’s grandchild is named Ainsley but her Mexican grandmother calls her Ashley because she can’t pronounce her name.
by Anonymous | reply 134 | October 24, 2021 7:32 PM |
I pronounce the word puberty as poo-berty. I know it’s wrong but the priest in high school who taught a very tame, low key course in development pronounced the word that way. He also pronounced vagina as vah-geenuh, with a hard g. I don’t pronounce it that way because I don’t use the word.
by Anonymous | reply 135 | October 24, 2021 7:38 PM |
[quote] He also pronounced vagina as vah-geenuh, with a hard g. I don’t pronounce it that way because I don’t use the word.
LMFAO
by Anonymous | reply 136 | October 24, 2021 8:30 PM |
[quote] but if you can’t pronounce the word kitten correctly you’re going be fucked getting ahead in the high end business world
Comedic facetiousness at its best. Bravo R126.
by Anonymous | reply 137 | October 25, 2021 5:14 PM |
A woman I worked with said Pon-tee-Us Pilot and Port-U-gul.
by Anonymous | reply 138 | October 25, 2021 6:40 PM |
The News Director for a 50,000 watt New York station can't say contractions. Wouldn't is woont and says coont for Couldn't. Is this a Glottal Stop problem?
by Anonymous | reply 139 | October 25, 2021 10:33 PM |
[quote]Is this a Glottal Stop problem?
No. It's the opposite of a glottal stop, in that coont and woont have no stop of the air flow at all.
Properly pronounced, the "d" in couldn't and wouldn't is sounded by momentarily stopping the air flow by placing the tongue at the rough of the mouth, just behind the teeth.
The glottal stop eliminates the interruption of the air flow with the tongue at the roof of the mouth, just behind the teeth, and replaces it with stopping the air flow with the glottis, deep in the speaker's throat.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | October 26, 2021 12:51 PM |
In my case I'm mutli-lingual. English of course then Spanish and Italian - all because I found out the Latin root languages all use identical vowel sets and the differences in language depend upon who invaded who. In the case of Spain the Islamic/Arabic thing influenced the hell out of the language where Italian is more Latin based.
by Anonymous | reply 141 | October 26, 2021 6:16 PM |
I love the way we speak in Andalucia. It even varies on our mood. Nada mas. Nada ma, Nao mao. Try to keep up, Spanish students. LMAO.
by Anonymous | reply 142 | October 26, 2021 11:59 PM |