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Why is DL so against trans/not strictly gay people. Is it a generational thing? Is it trolls?

My (gen-z) kid was born female but felt uncomfortable with that (as did I, always, for what it’s worth), and had top surgery and now identifies as male. He’s now having testosterone injections not to be male, necessarily, but to be more androgenous. He also has a boyfriend whose pronouns are “they/them”.

I get that stuff like this triggers people here, but WHY? I’m a gen-xer who grew up with a gender binary and people making fucking Rock Hudson/gay/AIDS “jokes”. I get that life for gays just trying to exist was HORRIBLE, but why the knee-jerk hate reaction here for young people testing the bounds of gender/sexuality? (This is a serious question!)

by Anonymousreply 128October 19, 2021 1:38 AM

Here's what I don't get. How can ONE person be a "THEY"?

by Anonymousreply 1October 15, 2021 7:36 AM

So you really thought the best way for your daughter to come into terms with her body and the societal expectations of what a woman is, and in general the misogynistic world we live in, is for her to cut her breasts out, start taking hormones and detach herself completely from the reality of the world by claiming she is something she isn't? Just to get away from that uncomfortable feeling that even YOU and millions before you managed to overcome or to deal with rationally?

by Anonymousreply 2October 15, 2021 7:45 AM

The genital mutilation is difficult to swallow. So to speak.

by Anonymousreply 3October 15, 2021 7:51 AM

OP if you are having surgery you are not “ testing the bounds of gender “ you potentially are making yourself infertile and potentially may not be able to transition back. That is more than a test, it is an Exam in which you have to be ready to live with the answers.

I feel we should celebrate someone who has fully transitioned, but to be honest much of this is pushing at Gay Rights. We are being told that we can just decide to change gender after spending our lives trying to tell the world we were born Gay. Now apparently we can change sex. It doesn’t make sense.

But more importantly than that , to me , is that there are many feminine boys and masculine girls who would have been Gay but are now being told that they maybe the opposite sex.

What is also frustrating is that we are regurgitating stereotypes on what Male and Female are. If you don’t fit that you may be Trans. WTF. Is this really progress..

Finally this is all being done in Gay people’s names and if you are ambivalent to this you are called a bigot. To me, that means an agenda and it is not good for Gay people.

Frankly every real Trans person I have met is a valuable member of the Gay community. But if you are just a 20 year old trying to change society because you don’t fit. Fuck you.

Please treat Trans people well but don’t fuck with Gays.

by Anonymousreply 4October 15, 2021 7:56 AM

R2 - my child was an adult when he did this. he’s now 22. That was his decision. What I fail to understand is why so many people here are so “triggered” (apologies for that SJW word) about it. My kid went through that ordeal and will live with it for better or worse. why all the hate?

by Anonymousreply 5October 15, 2021 7:58 AM

OP here, and sorry, R2 - i accidentally ff’d my reply to you! FFS!!! 😖

You’re absolutely not wrong in that millions of women have come to terms with being second-class citizens and accepting their lot in life (I was one of them!)

While I’d be very happy to live without breasts, I also accept that in western society, women can get along very well wearing “men’s” clothing and working in traditionally “male” occupations, whereas the opposite is not true.

I just don’t understand the energetic vitriol on DL, is all.

by Anonymousreply 6October 15, 2021 8:07 AM

Thank you, R4 - that is kind of what I thought was behind the “hatred”. I get that for everyone who came before and lived through so much, the apparent ease in which gen-z people shift genders is looked-upon with a massive side-eye. Like, they have no IDEA!

by Anonymousreply 7October 15, 2021 8:13 AM

I'm with you, OP. I think there are very obviously a lot of trolls on DL (and trans is the freakout issue du jour right now, in many more places than here) and I also think there are a lot of people who unthinkingly allow themselves to be sucked into thought patterns that are really quite ugly. People who reflexively feel that instinct to take a side immediately and can't stop to give an issue some real, lengthy thought. It will never not be fucking weird seeing all the hate spewed here about trans people and how similar it is to what was spewed about gay people extremely recently in western history.

by Anonymousreply 8October 15, 2021 8:16 AM

R5 I can't make you understand, because you won't take a random gay man's word over your daughter's feelings. But this is a pretty good speech on what is happening, and many gays on this board echo the sentiment.

Let me be clear. I was born in 1994, so I'm not an eldergay. I also know several young gay people, younger than me, who feel burdened, anxious, stressed and downright depressed over what the trans ideology has pushed on us, especially younger gays, who need a community, a community that DOESN'T shame them for having no interest in sharing same-sex spaces with opposite sex people who pretend to be gays.

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by Anonymousreply 9October 15, 2021 8:17 AM

You did notice the sign on the way in, didn’t you dear?

by Anonymousreply 10October 15, 2021 8:19 AM

Because Trans activists are bullies and insist that anyone who doesn't follow their doctrine should be cancelled.

I don't hate trans people, but I don't *believe* them. I don't believe your daughter was really a boy the whole time. I don't believe that trans women belong in women's sports and taking women's athletic scholarships. I don't believe that there are pregnant men.

And trans people don't think I have a right to my beliefs without being bullied and threatened with losing my job. They're incredibly intolerant as a political group. Individual trans people, maybe not, but they also don't say "boo" to it.

Basically, they're an incredibly demanding and intolerant group who are so insecure about their identities (because they also suspect that it's all smoke and mirrors) that they go nuts if you don't acquiesce to everything they want.

And, by the way, given what we know about human brain development, your kid was young for a double mastectomy. I'm not a big fan of lopping off healthy tissue and subjecting healthy young people to a lifelong regime of hormones, but that's me.

by Anonymousreply 11October 15, 2021 8:20 AM

I get that you guys are still using the GamerGater troll playbook, but most people have caught on to the "Just asking an honest question!" troll shtick that you're using here.

Social media is saturated with this stuff. "Gosh, I just want to know why" followed by sockpuppets and trolls "answering" the question with an obvious and very sketchy agenda.

Doing this at 2:00AM through 4:00AM U.S. Eastern time is also a pretty big tell. You always post during these times and when people point it out, you say "the internet isn't just Americans" but Datalounge IS, and always HAS been, primarily Americans from the East Coast.

by Anonymousreply 12October 15, 2021 8:22 AM

R8 - yeah… as a gen-xer who was in the punk/grunge scene. I don’t get it. OBVIOUSLY, gays fought and DIED for their rights, but why draw a line? Why say that a new generation is composed of idiots?

by Anonymousreply 13October 15, 2021 8:22 AM

sorry, R10… I did, but I trampled over it, I guess? 😬

by Anonymousreply 14October 15, 2021 8:23 AM

Trolls? WTF are you, OP?

I'm sure there are plenty of places online where the mommies of transfolk can commiserate. DL is not one of them. Perhaps you can tell your sad tale to those people and find some sympathy.

by Anonymousreply 15October 15, 2021 8:24 AM

Notably, not one of the anti-trans trolls on here ever links to anything, it's just "I know some guys" and "trans are awful because I said so."

A lot of people on here are probably the UK anti-trans trolls, and the UK is ripe for this kind of scapegoating, hateful propaganda to take hold. It's not so easy here in the US, as these trolls should know by now, having posted on DL for years and gotten absolutely nowhere with it. In fact, if they paid any attention to the Primetime we had for a couple weeks last month, they would have realized there are very few real people left on DL anymore. It's all trolls and their sockpuppets trolling each other.

In the US, most of this anti-trans stuff began when the rightwing fundies weren't making any headway in their anti-gay crusade, having realized that gay marriage was finally the law of the land, so they repackaged all their anti-gay stuff and turned it into anti-trans attacks, hoping to get a foothold into attacks on the entire LGBT community. That's where the "bathroom laws" started, as far-right Christian attack to reframe pro-LGBT laws as being "bathroom laws."

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by Anonymousreply 16October 15, 2021 8:26 AM

It's a mix between foreign trolls ( borises, kiwi farms uggos etc) trying to push an agenda, unhinged local trolls and actual transphobic people. The actual transphobes have already decided that they hate trans people and will work their discourse around that, splitting hairs really, most never interacted with them outside of twitter and it shows.

R15 is not a lesbian

R11 and R9 are foreign trolls.

And OP is probably a troll too

by Anonymousreply 17October 15, 2021 8:27 AM

In the US, the anti-trans movement is funded by far-right anti-choice millionaires like Kaeley Triller-Haver and Zachary Freeman, and far-right anti-gay groups like the Alliance Defending Freedom and the Heritage Foundation.

One of the co-founders of the UK LGB Alliance is Gary Powell of the Heritage Foundation.

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by Anonymousreply 18October 15, 2021 8:27 AM

The DL anti-trans troll brigade love the LGB Alliance and have even shilled for them on here, asking you buy their tote bags and beanies to support them.

Gary Powell of the LGB Alliance is funded by the homophobic, pro-conversion therapy Heritage Foundation.

Remember, when these anti-trans trolls say "trans erase gays," they're trying to distract you from the fact that they are funded by rightwing organizations who want to push conversion therapy on gays. Conversion therapy is ACTUALLY erasing gays.

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by Anonymousreply 19October 15, 2021 8:29 AM

R12 - I’m an insomniac from the Pacific coast of Canada (where it is 00:30 atm), not “BORIS”. 🙄

I love datalounge and its bitchery, but was just asking an honest question here based on my personal experiences. I wanted to read people’s responses. I’m not a troll, nor am I a Russian operative!

by Anonymousreply 20October 15, 2021 8:30 AM

Most anti-trans, anti-woman, anti-Demicrat, anti-lez comments are the work of fat, ugly, divisive cunt trolls whose mothers are STD-ravaged cuntwhores.

by Anonymousreply 21October 15, 2021 8:31 AM

When rightwing religious groups organized to protest a potential ban on conversion therapy, the LGB Alliance supported the rightwing fundies, saying they wanted to KEEP CONVERSION THERAPY LEGAL.

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by Anonymousreply 22October 15, 2021 8:31 AM

I didn't call you "Boris" r20, you moron, go find someone who did and yell at them.

by Anonymousreply 23October 15, 2021 8:31 AM

The LGB Alliance "has faced heavy criticism for refusing to denounce its neo-Nazi and homophobe supporters, for backing director Malcom Clark’s view that schools should not have LGBT+ clubs because of “predatory gay teachers“, and for standing by co-founder Bev Jackson defending working with the anti-abortion and anti-LGBT+ Heritage Foundation."

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by Anonymousreply 24October 15, 2021 8:33 AM

R16 what you are doing is gaslighting. A very common worry in the anti-TRA communities is the (religious) right getting their hands on this topic, and what it means for the LGB activists. But if anti-TRA and gender critical masses are cosigning republicans and conservatives, it's because liberal hacks have run them out of their spaces and denied any debate and conversation regarding trans activism and trans issues. So it's really your own damn fault if GC and LGB are growing more and more fond of centrist, even conservative political parties, as clearly liberals give a rats ass about same-sex attracted folk who don't want their autonomy, representation, history, media and spaces hijacked by trans activists.

by Anonymousreply 25October 15, 2021 8:37 AM

R19 you are unhinged. Regarding conversion therapy, this sums it up perfectly, you damn poo for brains.

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by Anonymousreply 26October 15, 2021 8:40 AM

R15 - in 1972 I was two-years-old, but I commend you for being out and proud since then. It can’t have been easy.

I’m not some “trans-mommy”, as you say (why so quick to anger??) I’m not straight and not “binary”. What my kid does is his business.

My question was “WHY do people here seem to hate trans people so much?” - like why are they seemingly a threat?

Your knee-jerk reaction would seem to fill in a bit of that question.

by Anonymousreply 27October 15, 2021 8:40 AM

Honestly I think it's more about the activism. The 93 different genders crowd who say it's a hate crime if you misgender them, even if they haven't done a damn thing to look like the gender they are supposed to want to be a part of, the adding of a million different letters to LGBTQASDGHHF!#%&*( alot of cis gay men and women just want to be considered "gay" without having to use the entire alphabet to do it.) the non binary types who at the same time call themselves trans and try to act like they are in the same category as people with genuine gender dysphoria, the stupid pronoun wars were gender wokies feel the need to clarify their pronouns even when they go by the same pronouns the already pass for ( thanks Mary with thefeminine face, tits and long blond hair for clarifying that your pronouns are she, her, really useful), the people with vaginas/penises crowd who feel it's a micro aggresion to call a pregnant person "mother" and also there is a genuine concern for how early these kids are allowed to transition and why they are choosing to do so. And these people actually have power.

I think for the most part DL has no problems in people that are genuinely trans or nb and want to live their lives and be ahppy but when people start acting like a mob of bullies then people are not going to like it.

by Anonymousreply 28October 15, 2021 8:40 AM

[quote]Here's what I don't get. How can ONE person be a "THEY"?

Uhhh, it's been of common use in the English language for ages, R1.

For example. You see someone at a distance, "they're" doing something odd, you can't make out "their" gender --- You might say, "what are THEY doing?" That's just one example but you get the gist.

It's odd that people fixate on the "they" stuff when they've used "they" and "them" for singular unknown people their whole lives.

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by Anonymousreply 29October 15, 2021 8:43 AM

My first experience of anti-trans sentiment was online about five years ago (and they have been online ever since, especially on DL) specific to bathrooms and it has expanded from there. I would hear all these fears/stories about men pretending to be women in an unconvincing manner being a threat to the lives of "the children." It always struck me as so obscure and an irrational fear, especially for the 21 Century (I remember on Ally MacBeal, the characters shared a unisex toilet, so who cares?). The majority of trans who use the restrooms of their preferred gender are also people who aesthetically commit to that gender, so, again, who cares? I never understood why a person obviously presenting as a female should use a male restroom (and vice-verse). And I don't understand the vitriol this has all turned into.

And, if you want to have a debate about trans sports figures crossing over into competitions of their preferred gender, fine, I get it. Let's continue to have that conversation. But, the general hate and disdain towards the trans community just seems beyond the pale.

I also watched the Dave Chappelle special and thought it was really good, and appreciated his story about Daphne Dorman.

Thank you OP for starting this thread. I don't understand the vitriol either.

And I do not live on the East Coast of the U.S. and it is early evening for me right now, so there is nothing unusual about posting comments right now. As you can see, there are already 28 replies.

by Anonymousreply 30October 15, 2021 8:44 AM

I don't think it's hate at all. At least not for me. I am 100% pro trans. But that doesn't mean I agree with everything that trans activist are fighting for.

For instance, I don't think transwoman should play bio women's sports simply because of biology. It's just not fair. To argue otherwise is just being willfully ignorant.

I also don't think we should say transwomen are women. Because it's not true. What is true? Transwomen are transwomen and that's awesome. And honest.

And, I think trans should branch out and start their own clubs, groups, parades etc. We can still be allies, but we don't need to be linked so closely. Obviously, we don't always see eye to eye on everything (gay is all about sex, trans all about gender. That means sometimes we won't be fighting for the same end. No big deal, but can still be an issue) and that can get frustrating for both gays and trans.

Finally, I really, really think a big part of the problem is the trans activists. They seem more interested in sanctimonious fighting than problem solving. It's so off putting and I always try and separate the trans activists from the individual transperson. But I admit I fail sometimes at that.

by Anonymousreply 31October 15, 2021 8:44 AM

R5

Speaking as a Gen Xer, I object to the idea that I'm required to play pretend with your daughter that she's a "man" if I clock her for what she actually is.

It's absolutely outrageous that trans people demand to be lied to and that they demand entry into spaces they categorically do not belong. Those demands have nothing in common with the LGB community asking for basic rights and a claim to human dignity. Your daughter, one way or another, has to come to terms with pretending to be something she's not, and that is no one's problem other than hers and the people who are close to her.

by Anonymousreply 32October 15, 2021 8:45 AM

What I am doing, r25, is posting a series of links to well-researched news articles in legitimate news outlets that have been posted over the course of several years.

That's not gaslighting. It's not even close to gaslighting. You guys post literally nothing except personal rants filled with catchwords that you don't even understand.

The anti-trans movement is a far-right Christian fundamentalist movement that uses the exact same concerns these religious fundies had about gays decades ago, and simply repackages them as concerns about trans. Once they get a foothold by making people unfamiliar with trans scared of them (because of "bathrooms" and "indoctrination" and "pederasty" and all the other golden oldie homophobic hits that have been repackaged) they then start with the legislation, which always includes gays and lesbians along with trans.

Trans is the rightwing Christian fundie Trojan horse to get homophobic laws passed.

You're not entitled to a safe space on Datalounge where people like me won't post actual facts and evidence that prove you're a bunch of trolls and liars.

by Anonymousreply 33October 15, 2021 8:47 AM

If someone is going to use they as singular then they should at least conjugate the verbs they use with it to be singular as well.

Example: "They is weird looking. I hope they isn't a pervert!"

Yes you will sound stupid but you already do using they as singular.

by Anonymousreply 34October 15, 2021 8:47 AM

R33 people also hate trans activists that try to shame people who don't agree in some of the things they fight for by dismissing them as right wing nut jobs.

by Anonymousreply 35October 15, 2021 8:51 AM

R9 - I honestly don’t get it. My kid was born in 1999. He grew up with gay couples, gay friends… his best friend was absolutely flaming from kindergarten on, and he was never forced to be otherwise. Likewise, my now-son was a “girly-girl who did ballet and loved princesses and the colour pink (much to my chagrin).

I grew up on the west coast of canada, where people just tend to let people be who they are.

I guess what I’m saying is that gen-z is a force to be reckoned with. They’re young and they’re still figuring things out. If they can blow up the gender binary, then more power to them. 🤷🏻

by Anonymousreply 36October 15, 2021 8:53 AM

Not a foreign troll, just a fed-up poster on the Pacific Coast. Not everyone goes to bed at 9.

And if we're going to talk about funding, let's talk about the funding of pro trans by big pharma.

Though the they're-all-trolls ranting is what I'd expect from the Pro trans brigade here. It beats having to actually make an argument.

by Anonymousreply 37October 15, 2021 8:55 AM

R17 - I’m not a troll, I swear. I’m just a gen-x weirdo from Vancouver Island who has a (now adult) trans kid… but I agree with what you’re saying! :)

by Anonymousreply 38October 15, 2021 8:56 AM

[quote]The anti-trans movement is a far-right Christian fundamentalist movement that uses the exact same concerns these religious fundies had about gays decades ago, and simply repackages them as concerns about trans. Once they get a foothold by making people unfamiliar with trans scared of them (because of "bathrooms" and "indoctrination" and "pederasty" and all the other golden oldie homophobic hits that have been repackaged) they then start with the legislation, which always includes gays and lesbians along with trans.

100 fucking percent this. (I am also an insomniac west coast Canadian Gen X former grunge kid, OP. I wonder if we ever ran into each other?)

As to the topic, all this pearl clutching and (as you mention) this weird, hysterical fear of trans people in the bathrooms or in the sports etc. and it just feels so... far away. Has anyone here ever had anything even remotely like a trans person acting inappropriately towards them in a bathroom? Or waving their non-matching parts in their child's face? Or kicking their ass at a sport? I can count the number of trans people I've ever met on two hands and have never even remotely had anything like any of this happen to me or to anyone I've ever known. This bathroom shit is made up. As for the sports, I would put money on this being totally settled in favour of people who were born male not being allowed to compete against people who were born female within 5 years.

Social media isn't real life. Twitter isn't real life. Those jackasses are annoying af, I agree. I've been called racist, misogynist, everything in the book by those loons. Most of them are straight white people with psychological damage looking to lord it over others in any way they can. Their insults have nothing to do with me. They're certainly not going to turn me against a whole group of people.

People who have felt that they were "born into the wrong body" aren't new. This type of person has existed throughout history. It's not made up. I believe them. No, I don't believe surgery changes your biological gender (it doesn't). But I believe what other people tell me about their emotions and experiences regarding their own lives.

by Anonymousreply 39October 15, 2021 8:57 AM

R35, you're being shown that this anti-trans movement is also homophobic, and you're posting support for these homophobic organizations on a gay board.

You don't get to have hurt feelings here, buddy. If you don't want someone to question just what your goal is, then don't post support for homophobes on a gay board. If you do, then man up and take responsibility for your own words.

That's another huge problem with you guys: you say all sorts of nasty shit and then when called on it, start whining about being "bullied" and "shamed." Either stand by your own words or don't say them. Don't do this weaselly little passive-aggressive thing where you cry because someone criticized what you voluntarily posted on a gay board.

by Anonymousreply 40October 15, 2021 8:58 AM

R36

Yeah, you don't get it, because you don't want to get it. Because to get it is to recognize and admit that you as a mother failed to protect your daughter from the path she has chosen, a path that is getting her body mutilated and filled with testosterone.

by Anonymousreply 41October 15, 2021 8:59 AM

It's more of a this stupid forum thing. Most of the gay men I know are strong supporters of all of us - yes, the letters are ridiculous but the gay men I know in Pennsylvania and New Jersey are strong backers of the trans youth they all know....

It's just these trolls on here have made Trans a really big deal for them, and that's more their problem - it's the one issue that triggers the hell out of them, and many of these are gay men who are very conservative in other areas too. They are often conservative-leaning anyway.

by Anonymousreply 42October 15, 2021 9:00 AM

[quote]kid was born female but felt uncomfortable with that (as did I, always, for what it’s worth)

This is all you need to have said for us to know you're crazy. You let your child mutilate herself. She's going to regret it one day and you are going to regret going along with this nonsense.

"They" is sometimes used in the singular ONLY when you do not know the person's sex. It is a plural pronoun. If you want a singular pronoun, the one you're looking for is "it".

Trans-ing is conversion therapy on steroids. You erase the gay kids but also mutilate their bodies to conform to regressive gender definitions. This entire movement is regressively sexist and homophobic.

by Anonymousreply 43October 15, 2021 9:00 AM

R36, Seriously? They're high-strung, hugh-maintenance, angry, but lacking in basic life skills. They have huge self-esteem issues that seem to correlate with the amount of time they spend online. The critical thinking skills are noticeable weak partly because they don't know how to disagree. They're far too prone to groupthink.

It worries me because they're up against some big issues, but they're even more of a mess than the feckless millennials.

by Anonymousreply 44October 15, 2021 9:01 AM

[quote]same-sex attracted folk who don't want their autonomy, representation, history, media and spaces hijacked by trans activists.

Oops. You showed your hand, R25, and you perfectly encapsulated how anit-trans gays are really just all about selfishness and having a status above someone else in society.

You think someone else getting equal rights and visibility is YOUR SPACE getting hijacked.? That's EXACTLY what anti-gay marriage people said, "What about muh tRAdiTioNaL MaRRaiGe?!!? "They're ruining tRAdiTioNaL MaRRaiGe for straight people!!"

That's also the mindset of people against desegregation with the idea that "those blacks are going to hijack OUR schools, OUR spaces, OUR entertainment."

You just fucking laid it all out there, R25 It's about insecure smug bigotry and wanting society to treat you as above some other group. Just like bigoted straights have done to gays for eons, and now people like you are doing it to trans people. So, please fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 45October 15, 2021 9:02 AM

My apologies, R23. It’s true you didn’t call me BORIS; you merely intimated I was a Russian sock puppet merely because I said something you didn’t like and was up late (your time). My bad.

by Anonymousreply 46October 15, 2021 9:02 AM

[43] No, dude. YOU have a problem with trans people.... it's not the rest of the world that's crazy, it's you because you're very warped in your thinking.

There is no erasure of gay kids, Grasshopper. What you want to do is erase trans kids which make up a small part of the LGBTQ youth population...

Get an education. You sound like an old hag TERF with a chip of her butch shoulder.

by Anonymousreply 47October 15, 2021 9:03 AM

Oh shit OP I'm on the Island too! Ha ha I wonder if we *do* know each other? As it is, I am enjoying you calmly destroying these losers like R43 and R44. Fucking bravo.

(and to R43 and R44 I'll say again: these people have existed throughout history. this is nothing new. it is not the same thing as being gay)

by Anonymousreply 48October 15, 2021 9:04 AM

[quote]Trans-ing is conversion therapy on steroids. You erase the gay kids but also mutilate their bodies to conform to regressive gender definitions. This entire movement is regressively sexist and homophobic.

Someone like you complaining about "idiot Repugs" on one thread, coming to THIS thread and pushing far-right Republican platform talking points, is just beyond understanding. You're allying with a political party that wants to take away your human rights, because YOU want to take away the rights of trans people.

The best-case scenario for you is that you're a troll and don't mean any of this. The worst-case scenario is that this is genuinely how you are, and you don't realize what you're doing.

by Anonymousreply 49October 15, 2021 9:05 AM

[quote]The best-case scenario for you is that you're a troll and don't mean any of this. The worst-case scenario is that this is genuinely how you are, and you don't realize what you're doing.

I have this exact thought every time I come to DL. Troll is the BEST case scenario for these people. Also, they're probably making a bit of money that way.

You're right about other posters here, too. Rescue Chick etc., so many of them have swallowed this anti-trans propaganda hook, line and sinker.

by Anonymousreply 50October 15, 2021 9:08 AM

R49 My comment was about the issues with Gen Z, so, no they haven't existed throughout history. Neither has widescale transitioning of minors. Or social media, for that matter.

by Anonymousreply 51October 15, 2021 9:08 AM

R49, you moron, do you think fucking Repugs are worried about the erasure of gay kids? You literally have no facts to stand on. You and Iran agree on trans-ing as preferrable to being gay. Femme boys and tomboys are now being told they are trans when, in reality, they are gay. The number of girls suddenly turning trans in the UK has gone up by nearly 4000%. It's fucking social contagion. I can't wait until the population of people who fell for this trans crap and then detransitioned start speaking up without being shouted down and threatened with death by the transtapo.

The transtapo is homophobic and sexist and there is literally no factual argument against that fact. Not one.

by Anonymousreply 52October 15, 2021 9:10 AM

Trans ideology contradicts homosexuality because it reinforces strict gender roles. Such as males are masculine and must love females who are feminine. Homosexuality goes against that societal expectation. That’s why forced gender reassignment is a thing in Islamic countries for gays unless they want to accept death penalty. There are true trans but that should take years of therapy to try to have them accept that they can be different and exhibit or like traits of the opposite sex but still are their birth sex.

by Anonymousreply 53October 15, 2021 9:11 AM

You are so funny R45 oh my goodness.

Yeah, I don't think straight people ' transitioning into gay people ' and then yelling how gays are bigoted because they wont fuck me, how gays need to fix their disgusting genital fetish, how gays do not deserve rights to their own spaces without trans folk, how historical gays are actually trans and ' queer ' and plenty of other nonsense is in any way right, and me feeling so is ABSOLUTELY infringing on the equality of trans folk and their human rights!

by Anonymousreply 54October 15, 2021 9:11 AM

Gender ideology is the new homophobia. We get it from the right and the left now. Saying that you are gay or lesbian and only attracted to the same sex is verboten. We're told we haven't considered our preferences, like we're just mindless zombies fetishizing genitals on autopilot. Any group that tries to organize for gay and lesbian causes without centering trans people is vilified. Gender non-conforming kids, most of whom would be gay if left to develop naturally, are denied puberty and thus any sexual development. This is homophobia!

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by Anonymousreply 55October 15, 2021 9:12 AM

Trans people have existed throughout history, R51. There is absolutely no denying that. And if surgery had been available earlier, trans people would have been having it earlier. If you care, and I don't think you do, I generally oppose the medical blocking of puberty (at least until we can be a hell of a lot more certain that mixed up young teens and kids aren't being strong-armed into transitioning - which I fully admit has been found to be happening at a few clinics in the UK and is, let me be clear, 100% wrong) in minors.

Also, young people who older people think are weak and stupid and overly sensitive etc. *have* always existed. It's just these latest ones we call "Gen Z."

by Anonymousreply 56October 15, 2021 9:13 AM

I posted a veritable shit ton of facts in the links earlier in the thread, r52. In the US the anti-trans movement is a far-right fundie Christian movement specifically created to use fear of the unknown -- in this case, trans -- to get people to agree to anti-LGBT legislation, by making them think it's just "bathroom bills for trans" and such. Plenty of UK anti-transers are involved in the US movement, too, as I posted. Not that I think you care one bit about facts.

If you're British, which it sounds like you are, then maybe I should be asking you why you're even IN the US political threads with all your opinions about the Democratic Party.

by Anonymousreply 57October 15, 2021 9:14 AM

Because what defines Trans people has absolutely not one fucking thing in common with what defines Gays, Lesbians, and/or Bisexuals.

It's that simple, really.

There are people who will argue with great virulence that they must be lumped together and others who insist that they should not be. But the only possible basis by which to suggest any similarity is that both groups represent sexual minorities, or that both groups may face discrimination.

I don't wish ill on Trans people but I don't see any need or benefit or indeed any commonality that would suggest an alliance with them.

by Anonymousreply 58October 15, 2021 9:14 AM

[quote] Saying that you are gay or lesbian and only attracted to the same sex is verboten.

No it isn't.

[quote]We're told we haven't considered our preferences, like we're just mindless zombies fetishizing genitals on autopilot.

Maybe - MAYBE - some freaks on Twitter said this to you. No one said it to your face in real life. It's not a real problem. It doesn't exist.

[quote]Gender non-conforming kids, most of whom would be gay if left to develop naturally

I dare you to back this up. With science.

by Anonymousreply 59October 15, 2021 9:16 AM

We are being asked to believe that the T were the powderkeg behind rights for the GLB, and that they fought for the LGB for decades without regard for their own rights.

Meanwhile, all the strides made for LGB lives in the last decades were made by LGB people who are known by name, who have had meetings, who have showed up for demonstrations, who have donated money, etc.

Now it's 2021. We are being told that LGB rights were the hard-won prizes led by the T. When we ask for the names of the T people, and for historical documentation of what they did, it's either crickets or gaslights.

Today it's being presented that the T did EVERYTHING for LGB rights and that we're denying history or being selfish by saying that we don't have much in common. It makes zero sense; if T led the movement, then T would have reaped the rewards while LGB trailed behind, picking up crumbs.

Fuck, yes, I resent it. I wish no ill against the T, but it's a lie and an attempt to rewrite history.

by Anonymousreply 60October 15, 2021 9:18 AM

Inauthentic Selves: The modern LGBTQ+ Movement Is Run By Philanthropic Astroturf And Based On Junk Science - How the LGBT community got suckered by Big Business and Big Philanthropy.

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by Anonymousreply 61October 15, 2021 9:21 AM

I'm really excited to find out who's behind that New Gay Liberation Front that r55 linked to. It's a new organization piggybacking on the old GLF but completely unrelated, though they don't want you to know that. The original GLF founders aren't happy about the "New" group.

One of the New Gay Liberation Front's founders is Belissa Cohen, long-time anti-trans activist known for filing slip-and-fall lawsuits against large municipalities. She used to be an entertainment journalist until she sued Courtney Love for, you guessed it, being pushed and falling down and injuring herself.

The other founder is John Worth, supposedly a homeless advocate but good luck finding anything about him out there.

It's a brand new org so I suspect in a few months we'll know a LOT more about their funding. I doubt it will be any different than other anti-trans organizational funding.

by Anonymousreply 62October 15, 2021 9:22 AM

My god, R39!! I think I’m in love! Exactly, re “bathroom bills” - like, who has ever really been impacted by that?! It’s all hysteria intended to “other” trans people AND GAYS. Who benefits from the division???

(If you were into Nomeansno and/or Pigment Vehicle/The Dayglo Abortions, I might have known you!) :)

by Anonymousreply 63October 15, 2021 9:22 AM

The surgical suite: Modern-day closet for today’s teen lesbian

Despite the fact that trans activists are diligently trying to lower the age of consent for cross sex hormones and surgeries, as a general rule children under 18 in the US cannot access these “treatments” without parental consent (Oregon being a notable exception). I have argued that even 18 is too young to make such permanent decisions, given that executive function skills are not well developed until the early 20s.

But there is another, equally important reason to question medical transition for adolescent girls. According to several peer-reviewed studies (which I will be discussing in detail in this post),

1. 95-100% of girls who “persist” in gender dysphoria at adolescence are same-sex attracted; these girls are typically offered cross-sex hormones by age 16, and surgeries as young as 18. 2. The typical age that a young lesbian has her first sexual experience and/or claims her sexual orientation is between the ages of 19 and the early 20s.

Let those two statements sink in for a moment.

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by Anonymousreply 64October 15, 2021 9:25 AM

R57, I'm American. American doctors and scientists are not allowed to study this which is why the UK stats are used. Also, the health system there is national and they track the numbers unlike in the US.

You are being purposefully obtuse. You keep stating the right wing arguments as if those are the arguments we are even discussing. They are not. We are talking about the erasure of gay and lesbian children and the forced compliance with regressive gender norms that the transtapo demand. The right hates the trans because they think they are part of the gay community and they hate gays. The gay people who have a problem with this have a problem with it because of the erasure of gay kids and the misogynistic and homophobic nature of the trans movement. All your "facts" pertain only to the right wing homophobes. None of your facts counter the issues the gay community and women in general have with what is being forced on them by the aggressively violent, testosterone-laden men in dresses known as the transtapo.

How do you explain a 4000% increase in girls transing in the UK? Go ahead and explain that with your facts.

by Anonymousreply 65October 15, 2021 9:26 AM

You've fallen for it, R60. You've fallen for trollery and divisiveness. I'm not saying you don't feel what you're saying you feel, but think. Just fucking think about how real those fears are. This isn't happening in real life you know. In real life people know the LGB movement was run by and led by and vastly made up of LGB people. You're taking screaming hysterics on Twitter way too seriously and it's causing you upset you needn't experience or be bothered by.

This is a non-problem for all but the tiniest minority of humans (the actual trans people and those who love them). Christ, fate gave us Covid (i.e. real shit) and we still can't wean ourselves off the fake outrage nipple.

by Anonymousreply 66October 15, 2021 9:26 AM

It is very exciting R62, and totally grassroots. They have open meetings on their youtube channel that anyone can attend. I truly hope that they can secure some funding, even if it's "rightwing" but I mentioned already neither side supports GLB organizations that don't center trans people.

by Anonymousreply 67October 15, 2021 9:31 AM

[quote]American doctors and scientists are not allowed to study this

What are you talking about? What are they not allowed to study? And link to something when you make a claim like this.

by Anonymousreply 68October 15, 2021 9:32 AM

R57 - I’m Canadian/British - dual citizenship, but was born in Vancouver/grew up off the west coast of Canada (we hardly consider ourselves Canadian - more like Cascadia/The Republic of Vancouver Island [my parents were English immigrants])!

by Anonymousreply 69October 15, 2021 9:34 AM

R65, I keep mentioning the rightwing roots of your anti-trans campaign because of people like r67.

[quote] I truly hope that they can secure some funding, even if it's "rightwing"

You want Repug money, you want Repug allies, you want Repugs to pass anti-trans laws that you know will also hurt gays and lesbians. You repeat Repug anti-trans propaganda. You link to organizations that take far-right fundie money and to news outlets that push rightwing propaganda rather than truth or news.

That's why I bring it up. A gay liberal will not ally with, give money to, and support Republicans who want to take your rights away.

by Anonymousreply 70October 15, 2021 9:35 AM

R41 - MARY!!!

Omg - THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

My kid was an adult. If I could do it for free, I’d have my tits cut off, too.

by Anonymousreply 71October 15, 2021 9:41 AM

I came out as a gay man around 2007. I remember reading a news story around that time about a "pregnant man" and looking at the comments and thinking, "Shit. Transgender people have it 100x worse than gays and lesbians."

The trans issue, as I see it in 2021, is about a lot more than just transgender people. It touches women's issues, gay issues, issues of social contagion, issues of self and identity. It touches the fundamental question of "What does it mean to 'identify as' something?"

In the circles I move in (academia), it seems -- could be confirmation bias -- that the people most willing to share their pronouns are women. (This is true both among my colleagues and students.) But for a lot of women in academia, well, centering their gender is a stigma they've fought long and hard against (eg "I'm not a woman mathematician, or a woman doctor; I'm a mathematician, I'm an engineer"), and so I see it as a subtle form of sexism. But women are supposed to be accommodating, right?

It's a complicated issue. I think the social contagion dynamic has certain features in common with the sex abuse hysteria of the 1980s.

by Anonymousreply 72October 15, 2021 9:42 AM

OK R63 this has nothing to do with the topic at hand (although, once again, you are handling these trolls - and I know you know they're trolls - with ease and I'm enjoying it) but I am actually low key freaked out by how similar your life is to mine. Did you go to HS in a small, shitty town north of Victoria? You sound like you would have been too cool for me (I was a self-conscious dork in HS...tbh I still am), either way. I was more into Pearl Jam and Nirvana in HS, and only really because my friends were. Oh dear.

You've really kicked the trollnets nest tonight, though. Look at them pouring out of the woodwork! It will never not be the oddest thing to see so many people (the non-trolls, they exist too and I'm sure some are here with us) so worked up about something that literally will never impact their lives in any way in 99% of cases. It's exactly the same primitive fear of the other that all the other panics over this or that minority in history have been. I swear there's something deep down in human beings that enjoys this reveling in their own theatrical panic/fear.

by Anonymousreply 73October 15, 2021 9:49 AM

R53 - my trans (androgynous) son is in a relationship with a gender-neutral person (let’s face it - he’s a guy). The relationship is apparently poly (or poly-open); my kid’s also had relationships with women.

I just don’t get the hen-clucking/pearl-clutching over shit like this on DL, hence my post. 🤷🏻

by Anonymousreply 74October 15, 2021 9:54 AM

Forget them, they’re just transphobic. There’s nothing more to it than that.

by Anonymousreply 75October 15, 2021 9:55 AM

I hope there is a God. And your child suffers the consequences of playing God.

by Anonymousreply 76October 15, 2021 9:59 AM

Yes we are just "primitive" transphobes who are too stupid to see that it's the right wing that is using us like pawns against the benevolent trans who just want to shepherd our equality movement and speak in our name as the superlative leaders of the LGTBQIAN+++!*&$@.

by Anonymousreply 77October 15, 2021 9:59 AM

R46, as I said more than once, a lot of the anti-trans trolls we get in the overnight hours are from the UK. I didn't imply ANYTHING about you being a "Boris" or Russian. Not even close. You completely invented that.

You are aware I'm an American who is up in the overnight hours, right? Because I'm here right now, and obviously American? You think I'd be saying any American up at this time is really a Russian Boris? Come on, you know better than that.

by Anonymousreply 78October 15, 2021 10:01 AM

R76 has timed their post perfectly to illustrate the truth of the following Aldous Huxley quote:

[quote]“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.”

by Anonymousreply 79October 15, 2021 10:01 AM

R70, go ahead and address the actual points I made at R65. Your avoidance of them is very telling. You cannot argue against the issues that the left, the progressives, the gays, and women have with the transtapo as it currently exists.

by Anonymousreply 80October 15, 2021 10:04 AM

That quote also nicely explains how trans folks delight in spewing the most vile homophobia at gay and lesbian people R79.

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by Anonymousreply 81October 15, 2021 10:06 AM

R79, you realize your quote fits how the transtapo treat women and gays, right?

by Anonymousreply 82October 15, 2021 10:06 AM

Answer my question about what it is American scientists are forbidden to study, r80, and post a link.

by Anonymousreply 83October 15, 2021 10:07 AM

Exhibit B R79

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by Anonymousreply 84October 15, 2021 10:08 AM

R42, et al - Okay, so I earned an English degree back in the day, and though it got me nowhere financially, it at least gave me leave to comment on this: “they” has been used as a singular pronoun since the middle ages. After you/thou lost its meaning, there needed to be SOMETHING.

As a youngling, I was taught that “he” was the appropriate pronoun for individuals in groups, but always knew that wasn’t okay.

Even Shakespeare used the singular “they”, so get outta here with that shit!

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by Anonymousreply 85October 15, 2021 10:09 AM

I post several links to legitimate news sources like the Guardian and BBC, and am told I'm "gaslighting" by the anti-trans brigade.

Meanwhile, if anyone in the anti-trans brigade is asked for a link, they disappear or they post a link to a screencap on a Tumblr blog.

by Anonymousreply 86October 15, 2021 10:12 AM

For R83...

Now, go ahead and answer my questions that you just love to avoid..for obvious reasons.

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by Anonymousreply 87October 15, 2021 10:12 AM

They are impatient. The feminist movement has been going on for over a century working on the rights of half the world. It took 50 years to get from gay pride to marriage equality for 5-10% of people . Trans activists seek more radical change on behalf of far fewer people and they demand instant progress, as if they can just piggyback on feminism and gay rights. Change doesn’t work that way

by Anonymousreply 88October 15, 2021 10:12 AM

^^*ugh - I meant R53? I think…? I’m kinda drunk?

by Anonymousreply 89October 15, 2021 10:13 AM

I think OP Is trolling. I think this is an EST.

by Anonymousreply 90October 15, 2021 10:15 AM

Another for R83...

Now, go ahead and address the issues I discussed at R65. (But, of course, you won't.)

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by Anonymousreply 91October 15, 2021 10:15 AM

I agree, r90

by Anonymousreply 92October 15, 2021 10:16 AM

R87, that was one brain imaging study that was paused temporarily to make sure ethical standards were being met.

It does not in ANY WAY show that American scientists are forbidden from studying whatever it is you claim they're forbidden from studying.

by Anonymousreply 93October 15, 2021 10:16 AM

The quote fitting other bigots (I have repeatedly said there are many bigots on twitter and social media, including ones who would claim to be leftie or progressive) doesn't mean it doesn't also apply to you, R82, R81.

Some people in Greece hate Turkish people. That fact doesn't mean a white American hating a black American somehow isn't racism, because some other people are also racists (against other targeted races). If the quote applies, it applies, regardless of who you vote for or how you identify. It applies to screaming straight hysterics on Twitter claiming that not accepting a transwoman as an XX female human is hate as much as it applies to you. But it DOES apply to you.

Also, trolls, if you want people to "answer your questions" - post links to trustworthy sites. Don't post links to random easily photoshopped image compilations or websites no one has ever heard of. Post links to studies, serious newspapers, wikipedia. Make an effort, this isn't fucking Facebook.

by Anonymousreply 94October 15, 2021 10:17 AM

R57, do you have any issues at all with any part of what trans rights activists endorse? Either specifically or in a more broad sense?

Is there even one thing you don't agree with that falls under the TRA platform (say, giving a ten year old puberty blockers)?

Assuming you do have, maybe, that one thing where your personal beliefs contradict the general TRA platform, do you think if you expressed that difference that would make you anti-trans? Or right-wing? Would that one difference suddenly make the rest of how you vote and who align with just disappear?

Because that's what you're saying about many of us on this site. We are NOT anti-trans or right wing. Saying it over and over and over doesn't make it true. And it's really facile to name call just because some liberals take umbrage with this one issue and see it in a way that doesn't pleases you.

It's okay that some of us have reservations about some elements of some things that some TRA are pushing. It doesn't mean we're angry or want anything bad to happen to anyone, trans or otherwise, or think the OP is bad mother or even give two shits about her son. (Most of us don't OP. Good luck to you and to him).

by Anonymousreply 95October 15, 2021 10:18 AM

Stop usurping women's spaces and women's competitions and we'll talk.

Until then, STHU.

by Anonymousreply 96October 15, 2021 10:20 AM

R93, and what excuse will you use to dismiss the Guardian link I posted at R91 so you don't have to address the issues I presented at R65?

by Anonymousreply 97October 15, 2021 10:21 AM

[quote]Now, go ahead and address the issues I discussed at [R65]. (But, of course, you won't.)

First of all, drunk r91, I'm not someone you can goad into a fight with your Fisher Price's My First Troll tactics.

You started out with a lie about American scientists being forbidden from studying transgenderism, I guess; you're still being purposely vague about it, which isn't a surprise. Your second point about rightwing influence in the anti-trans movement has already been addressed in well over a dozen replies on this thread already.

Your third point about your unsourced figure regarding UK trans numbers increasing is irrelevant. Who cares what my personal speculation is? It's irrelevant. So is your personal speculation.

The whole point of your post is just to say "A ha! You won't answer my IMPORTANT and VITAL questions because you are WRONG and STUPID and also EVIL!" It's dumb. You're dumb. I regret giving you even the tiniest benefit of the doubt here, thinking you may have had a point you were trying to make. Instead, you're just drinking at 5:00AM and trolling DL.

Every answer you were searching for has already been posted on this thread. Go look it up, if you can.

by Anonymousreply 98October 15, 2021 10:23 AM

"My (gen-z) kid was born female but felt uncomfortable with labels (as did I, always, for what it’s worth and I simply didn't believe my child was a "female"), so my child cut off her tits and now identifies as male. He’s now having testosterone injections, his pussy has dried up and though he's 23 he looks 35, but the T is not to be male, necessarily, but to be more androgenous because thats what a FTM wants to be a male how looks androgynous between gender he identifies and gender he rejects. Not to say there is any such thing as gender, rally. He also has a non-binary partner, I believe born intersex, whose pronouns are "Them/Them Majesty”

by Anonymousreply 99October 15, 2021 10:25 AM

Who the fuck is saying gay men and lesbian women didn’t fight and die for gay rights, R60? Literally NO ONE is saying that! It’s not a zero sum game!!

by Anonymousreply 100October 15, 2021 10:27 AM

So, in other words R98, you can't address the legitimate concerns that gays and women have about the trans movement. You even reject the Guardian article after pouting about no one taking your side's Guardian articles as legitimate sources. The homophobes and misogynists like you never answer simple questions and refuse to address actual issues.

Do you think 10 year olds should be given puberty blockers? A simple yes or no. That should be simple enough to answer but, again, you won't because it will prove you're either a full-on child abuse fan or anti-trans. The pro-T side cannot argue facts or logic because logic turns them against themselves. It's hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 101October 15, 2021 10:31 AM

Update from OP: "Dear moderator, Could you please remove this thread? Thank you. I've just heard from my daughter's attorney. Well she was recently my son but was born my daughter and has decided to detransition, as one does in the early 20s, and now identifies as an androgynous female with the pronouns "Angry, Damaged". Angry let me know she is considering a number of lawsuits agains myself and her father (who is now a woman with the pronouns "She/Queen Sheba")."

by Anonymousreply 102October 15, 2021 10:35 AM

OP, if you want to play glib then fine. I will engage even though you are either an EST or a frau who shouldn’t be here anyway.

When trans people were just a few, very feminine gay men, few people cared. They were little threat to women and little threat to gay men. Then, however, more and more people began to identify as trans, and at younger and younger ages. Suddenly little gay boys and little lesbians began to be Trans instead. And then, there is the issue of AGP, who tend to be straight men with both hatred for women and deep seated festish, making women unsafe. Both groups have taken over gay spaces. Gay men have had our contributions to society and history erased, the pride parades we created have been hijacked, all while trans people call us slurs and demand we redefine ourselves to suit their agenda.

Meanwhile woman have it even worse. People with penises are put into their spas, prisons, sports, and rape centers. All the while women are reduced to terms like uterus owners and child birthing people. And unless they accept this, they are called terf and threatened with rape and death.

Then, there is the actual dangerous notion of what trans is. Your daughter says she “feels” like a man. Well, what does that mean? How does one feel like a man? How can one feel like a man without engaging in stereotypes. Is she a man because she likes women? Because she plays football? Because she likes sports? Because plenty of gay men don’t like those things. The trans community would have is believe that stereotype of gender are natural- that is what both feminists and the gay community have fought against for a very long time.

by Anonymousreply 103October 15, 2021 10:39 AM

Yep this is controversial but is a Lesbian talking to a Marxist and in the hour long story convo she also discusses why the US keeps misunderstanding the UK position . I love Brendan o Neill and it is a good discussion about what happens when the Gay community turns on its own.

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by Anonymousreply 104October 15, 2021 10:40 AM

R65 said:

[quote]American doctors and scientists are not allowed to study this

Nothing in the linked Guardian article says anything about American doctors and scientists not being allowed to study trans people/issues. The first woman the article discusses had a lecture cancelled after a Twitter freakout and explicitly makes the point that she feels this is a UK issue and not a North American issue (she specifically references giving the same speech, with no issues, in Newfoundland). The vice-chancellor of the university where this happened has:

[quote]...promised a review into what happened in December, and says the university expects its community not to interfere with “the rights of others to express views with which they might disagree profoundly”.

So the lecture being threatened was not just taken lying down and was in fact controversial enough to make national news.

Also from the article:

[quote]Kathleen Stock, professor of philosophy at Sussex University and a gender-critical feminist, claims that last month Oxford University Press abandoned a book on female philosophers because her inclusion was deemed too controversial.

I don't know anything more about this and so won't comment but it's not "American doctors and scientists aren't allowed to study this"

The article covers the issue of ongoing tension between "gender critical" and "trans and trans-allied" groups on campuses in the UK, detailing heavy security needed at some lectures amongst other details.

Again, NOTHING in the Guardian article supports your point about "American doctors and scientists" not being "allowed" to study this. It doesn't even remotely support UK doctors or scientists not being allowed to study it! It reports on a current controversy in the UK, one which will almost certainly and within the next few years be settled by allowing gender critical academics and thinkers to continue to give lectures at universities etc.

As the OP said, you're either a troll or you're serious and I'm beginning to suspect you're serious. Which is the least favourable outcome for you.

Not as many people are out to get you as you think. Breathe. Once more: social media isn't real life. You are not in danger.

I'm off to bed. Still freaked out by you, OP, and your life's eerie similarities to my own. I think I may have come across you on DL before, because there is definitely someone here who always reminds me of me. Good night, I know I don't have to say "ignore these trolls" so instead I'll just say your kid is lucky to have you as a parent.

by Anonymousreply 105October 15, 2021 10:49 AM

R73… do the words “Parkland” or “North Saanich” ring a bell? If not, no matter!

by Anonymousreply 106October 15, 2021 10:58 AM

R78 - I, a fellow insomniac, wish you only the best! May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest (and I don’t mean that in a passive/aggressive/wish you were dead like *spoiler alert* Hamlet way!!) :)

by Anonymousreply 107October 15, 2021 11:17 AM

Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's their attempts to erase the word "woman" from the legal and medical lexicon? Their attempt to get anyone insising that biology matters is not only wrong, but dangerous and shouldn't be allowed to hold a job in education, entertainment, or politics?

After seeing the governor of California sign a bill aimed at helping black mothers calling same "people who birth black babies" and department stores changing the name of former Maternity Wear sections to Parenthood Wear, I am convinced that the fascist Trans movement is as dangerous to society as Trumpism.

Both deal in peddling a denial of reality through intimidation, threats, and media collusion and cowardice.

Both are straight out of 1984.

by Anonymousreply 108October 15, 2021 11:31 AM

R90 - I’m not trolling and this isn’t an EST. I’ve lurked here for a long time and have been a bit taken aback by the casual transphobia that seems to be taken for granted here, that’s all. I didn’t expect it to blow up!

by Anonymousreply 109October 15, 2021 11:37 AM

OP posts:

[quote]I’ve lurked here for a long time

and

[quote]I didn’t expect it to blow up!

Sure, Jan.

by Anonymousreply 110October 15, 2021 11:39 AM

R99 - What did that contribute, really?

I love DL so very much, but have to grit my teeth sometimes and ignore all the transphobic stuff here. No one is called-out about it. That’s all, really. That’s why I made this post (my first).

by Anonymousreply 111October 15, 2021 11:49 AM

Excellent points, r103. Same with males who "feel like" they are truly a female. No; they don't---can't---know what they are talking about.

Everything is based on stereotypes, such as little boys preferring so-called "girl toys" and "dressing up," as though toys determine gender preference and males aren't supposed to be peacocks.

But now we are fast-tracking irreversible decisions. The little boy playing with dolls is encouraged to think he should "be" a girl (rather than being affirmed as wanting to be a good father), and his parents are encouraged to pursue a surgical and pharmaceutical "solution."

by Anonymousreply 112October 15, 2021 12:07 PM

OP you allowed your daughter to mutilate and sterilize herself. You’re an abject failure as a parent and person. You destroyed your daughter’s life.

by Anonymousreply 113October 15, 2021 12:11 PM

Because why is it that a girl uncomfortable with her developing body who starves herself into thinness is called a victim while a girl who wants to chop off her breasts is called a hero?

by Anonymousreply 114October 15, 2021 12:24 PM

Yeah, no, R102. My son’s trans stuff seemed to come out of the blue as he was always “girly” (this is why it took me some time to take it seriously myself. I was raised in the ‘70s when “gender neutral” stuff was popular amongst hippies like my parents, only “gender neutral” mainly meant that girls wore “boy” clothes and played with “boy” toys.)

Still… that changed when Reagan/the “moral majority” came to power in the U.S. and religious assholes took over my Canadian province (they made it mandatory for us to say the lord’s prayer every morning in high school; I refused and gained the right to stand outside every morning until they were done. I wasn’t putting up with that bullshit!). Social gender dimorphism exploded then because PROFITS. Of course, there’s no reason a boy/man can’t be into so-called “girly” stuff!

Now my son’s an androgynous dandy so… yeah. Still, it’s not hurting anyone. Also, his dad was an abususive, deadbeat asshole whom I escaped after he tried to throw us down the stairs when my kid was in my arms, and whom my son has pretty much cut out of his life recently because of his idiocy, so perhaps your idea about who we are isn’t correct..?

I started this thread because I was curious. I figured much of the anti-trans stuff here was down to a few people/trolls, but wasn’t sure to what extent, and I wanted to know more - to know *why* people here were SO anti-trans.

I’m not interested in figuring out who’s trolling/who’s responding/who has sock puppets or whatever. I also get that the gen-z approach towards gender and sexuality isn’t for everyone.

I’ve enjoyed reading every response, even if they’re dissing me or I don’t happen to agree with them!

by Anonymousreply 115October 15, 2021 12:40 PM

R113 - AGAIN… my child was an ADULT when he had top surgery (do keep up).

by Anonymousreply 116October 15, 2021 12:52 PM

R114 - you raise a good point. I was never comfortable being female, so I starved myself i high school to stave off womanhood.

by Anonymousreply 117October 15, 2021 12:58 PM

You bitches need to stop engaging trolls.

by Anonymousreply 118October 15, 2021 1:10 PM

Is this part of the fundamental transformation of society?

by Anonymousreply 119October 15, 2021 3:39 PM

R115 Then what makes her a man? How can your daughter feel like a man? What does that feeling feel like?

by Anonymousreply 120October 15, 2021 4:25 PM

OP/R115, I'm curious: Has some of the responses at least helped you understand that many of us are NOT anti-trans, NOT right wing, but maybe have some actual real and valid concerns about the larger the trans movement?

Have any gaps been bridged? Or do you think we're just being flippantly transphobic and full stop?

(For me? It really sounds like your son did the right thing for him and I wish him well in all his endeavors.)

by Anonymousreply 121October 15, 2021 5:59 PM

R29 That usage is completely different. We are not talking about unknown people of unknown genders.

We are participating in "their" delusion that "they" are more important than logic or reality.

by Anonymousreply 122October 15, 2021 6:28 PM

Transing kids is gay conversion therapy as 80-90 % of them grow out of their dysphoria and most of them turn into fully functional gay or lesbian adults.

by Anonymousreply 123October 15, 2021 7:16 PM

DL, come ON. If R74/R115 (among others) don't make it clear OP is a troll, what will? They're typical parody posts. Whenever someone rolls up claiming they've lurked for so long and never posted here before but "just needed to understand" some issue, it's EST time.

(Also, R105-- did you miss where OP claimed 'she' had never posted here before now? So how could you have run into her before on DL...unless she's lying?)

Muriel needs to kill this whole thread with fire.

by Anonymousreply 124October 16, 2021 12:01 AM

R28, I agree w/everything you said. Next time it would just be nice to buy a period now and then.

by Anonymousreply 125October 16, 2021 5:18 AM

R122, exactly. I'm actually embarrassed that R29 seems so clueless to have thought the comparison was legit. From R29's link, CAPS for emphasis:

"Last Fall, a transgender Florida school teacher was removed from THEIR fifth-grade classroom for asking THEIR students to refer to THEM with the gender-neutral singular they."

So again, how can ONE PERSON be referred to as two? As 'them'.

by Anonymousreply 126October 16, 2021 5:29 AM

This over-wokeness is going to bite them and other SJWs in the back. And it will cost us the next two elections if they don't reel it in.

At least some are having the courage to stand up to the bullying.

by Anonymousreply 127October 19, 2021 1:37 AM

Shoot -- forgot the link:

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by Anonymousreply 128October 19, 2021 1:38 AM
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