What was her thing and intention on "What's My Line?" about character people when she asked if they were? Would she be insulted if you called her a character woman? It seems she was asking them if they weren't good-looking. There were some very good-looking character people as well as they really out there folks as well. Frankly, Glenn Close and Meryl Streep and DeNIro and Pacino and Hoffman are in the leading character category.
Was Arlene Francis considered a character actress?
|by Anonymous||reply 208||November 29, 2021 1:22 AM|
[Quote] There were some very good-looking character people as well
|by Anonymous||reply 1||October 14, 2021 5:29 PM|
She was considered a ‘personality.’ Her acting was incidental.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||October 14, 2021 5:31 PM|
She was considered very fecund.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||October 14, 2021 5:34 PM|
Bitch killed Jack Kennedy.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||October 14, 2021 5:47 PM|
My name is Bevery Boyer and I'm a pig.
And you, Arlene are my supporting (character)!
|by Anonymous||reply 5||October 14, 2021 5:48 PM|
Correct quote: Hello, I'm Beverly Boyer and I'm a pig.
You're still supporting, Arlene. I don't care that you're having a baby and getting all orgasmic during the film's opening.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||October 14, 2021 5:49 PM|
She was basically an older Phyllis Newman. Married to someone more famous and accomplished in show business. Stage experience, but not much. Did "panel" and quiz shows. Kitty Carlisle was much the same, except she'd done more in films.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||October 14, 2021 5:55 PM|
I don't know if I'd call Martin Gabel more famous, but I believe that he did win a Tony.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||October 14, 2021 6:00 PM|
Phyllis Newman was pretty accomplished -- her showstopper in "Subways Are For Sleeping" won the Tony over Barbra Streisand's big number in "I Can Get It For You Wholesale".
|by Anonymous||reply 9||October 14, 2021 6:02 PM|
She Newman) didn't do much after that.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||October 14, 2021 6:04 PM|
Wasn’t her husband gay?
|by Anonymous||reply 11||October 14, 2021 6:04 PM|
You consider 26 Broadway shows "not much", r7?
|by Anonymous||reply 12||October 14, 2021 6:09 PM|
R12: Most of them closed quickly. She was no Geraldine Page.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||October 14, 2021 6:29 PM|
How would she react if she were Mystery Guest and someone asked her if she were a character actress? She was relatively ethnic looking for the time, despite her stage name.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||October 14, 2021 6:30 PM|
It's still 26 times she got hired and appeared on Broadway, r13. She also had a 40 year radio career. You're really short-changing her accomplishments in the business.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||October 14, 2021 6:40 PM|
Plus she co-starred with James Cagney in the hilarious "One, Two, Three" and also Beverly Boyer (Doris Day) in "The Thrill of It All" among others. In character roles (wife), but still...
|by Anonymous||reply 16||October 14, 2021 6:43 PM|
I didn’t know she was in the original Broadway run of The Women … two years.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||October 14, 2021 6:51 PM|
Arlene was multi-talented, including murder.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||October 15, 2021 5:25 AM|
Give it up, R18. DL keeps trying to pin a murder rap on her when ten seconds of online research will show she didn't kill anyone. There was a tragic accident at her apartment while she and her family were away, and she was in a fatal car accident that was not her fault.
And, yes, she would have been proud to be called a character actress.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||October 15, 2021 6:24 AM|
🤔 sounds like murder to me…
|by Anonymous||reply 20||October 16, 2021 1:20 AM|
Who might Bennett Cerf and Dorothy Kilgallen guess if Arlene had been a mystery guest?
|by Anonymous||reply 21||October 16, 2021 2:06 AM|
Lotte Lenya, R21.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||October 16, 2021 2:27 AM|
A radio and TV host. Lots of Broadway gigs and a wonderful person. She possessed a unique quality that made you want to look at her. She lived a long time.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||October 16, 2021 2:31 AM|
R23 Many years ago, an ex and I were visiting NYC, and while walking on the Upper East Side I saw an elderly, well-dressed and well-coiffed woman walking towards us slowly with the assistance of a younger woman. After we passed them, I realized the elderly woman was Arlene Francis. I looked back thinking about whether to go back to her and tell her how much I had enjoyed her TV work, but I saw how much trouble she was having walking and thought it best to not bother her. I still enjoy watching her on old What’s My Line shows. She was vivacious and had a lovely smile.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||October 16, 2021 4:52 AM|
She's no Ann Baxter.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||October 16, 2021 5:03 AM|
Or Ann Blythe
|by Anonymous||reply 26||October 16, 2021 5:05 AM|
She's no Anne Miller.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||October 16, 2021 5:05 AM|
Or Miss or Missus Miller.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||October 16, 2021 5:07 AM|
R24, I think she suffered from Alzheimer’s for many years before her death, so you & your ex may have encountered her during this period of her life.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||October 16, 2021 5:09 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 30||October 16, 2021 5:10 AM|
Let’s not forget that, for all her formidable charm, she was also a serial killer.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||October 16, 2021 5:14 AM|
Would she have been described as a handsome woman?
|by Anonymous||reply 32||October 16, 2021 5:28 AM|
[Quote] According to TV Guide, Francis was the highest-earning game show panelist in the 1950s, making $1000 (equal to $10,757 today) per show on the prime time version of What's My Line?. By contrast, the second-highest paid panelists on TV, Dorothy Kilgallen and Faye Emerson, received $500 (equal to $5,378 today) per appearance.
Interesting that the female panellists were paid for than the men.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||October 16, 2021 5:36 AM|
Miss Francis was an accomplished actress on the legitimate stage performing in 25 Broadway plays through 1975.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||October 16, 2021 6:01 AM|
She was also Armenian.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||October 16, 2021 6:15 AM|
She wasn't a character actress.
She was The Lovely Star of Stage and Television, MIss Arlene Francis™.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||October 16, 2021 6:18 AM|
R29 I think you’re correct. According to her NYT obituary, she started showing signs of Alzheimer’s around 1984 and left NYC in 1995 to be near her son in California. I would have seen her between 1990 and 1995, when she had been in a decline for a long time. It’s just as well I didn’t try to go up to her.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||October 16, 2021 6:31 AM|
Wiki says she left New York for a home in San Francisco in 1993.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||October 16, 2021 6:35 AM|
Are these F Me pumps?
|by Anonymous||reply 39||October 16, 2021 7:14 AM|
Most of her Broadway work was in short runs or plays no one remembers. The Women, an ensemble, is really her only major credit and that was 29+ years before "What's My Line". Her film credits were "sporadic" as Wiki describes them. She was basically a proto-Phyllis Newman.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||October 16, 2021 1:33 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 41||October 16, 2021 3:18 PM|
Her famous diamond heart-shaped necklace was stolen from her, and I don't think it's ever surfaced since.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||October 16, 2021 4:47 PM|
The people who made the WACO mini series are developing a Dorothy Kilgallen - who should be played by Rooney Mara or Emily Blunt - biopic.
Who to play Arlene and the rest of the the panel?
|by Anonymous||reply 43||October 16, 2021 4:53 PM|
Rebecca De Mornay
|by Anonymous||reply 44||October 16, 2021 5:10 PM|
maybe Wendie Malick as Dorothy (though Wendie is always pretty likeable and Dorothy was mostly bitchy)
|by Anonymous||reply 45||October 16, 2021 5:12 PM|
Arlene interviewed. Date unknown, but no earlier than 1987.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||October 16, 2021 5:18 PM|
Dorothy should only be played by chinless wonder. Cast an unknown.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||October 16, 2021 6:33 PM|
Goodson-Todman would not have dared pay Arlene twice as much Dorothy. Dorothy would of course have found out and that would be the end of WML as we knew it.
As to Arlene, she was far more famous and talented on television than her husband. He never would have been seen on the program if he hadn't been Mr. Francis.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||October 16, 2021 6:50 PM|
[quote]She was basically a proto-Phyllis Newman.
They were both basically TV celebrities despite work on stage, but Phyllis was the ditzy ingénue type. All giggles.
Arlene was sophisticated and witty. A TV pioneer hosting her own show in the 1950s. Had radio shows. She had a lot more substance than Phyllis Newman.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||October 16, 2021 9:21 PM|
Arlene was the first woman to host a game show when she subbed for Bill Cullen on The Price is Right.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||October 16, 2021 9:54 PM|
During the interregnum between Jack Paar's departure & Johnny Carson's start date, she also was the first woman to host the Tonight Show.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||October 16, 2021 10:06 PM|
Although different personalities, Arlene and Betty White shared a common denominator: they were just born for TV, live TV especially.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||October 16, 2021 10:13 PM|
[quote]Arlene was the first woman to host a game show when she subbed for Bill Cullen on The Price is Right.
Actually Arlene was the host of the TV game show "Blind Date", years before the Price is Right.
She also hosted it when it was on the radio. Starting in 1943.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||October 16, 2021 10:44 PM|
I'd consider Betty a pioneer, r52.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||October 16, 2021 10:50 PM|
[quote]Although different personalities, Arlene and Betty White shared a common denominator: they were just born for TV, live TV especially.
That would describe Dinah Shore too. And with her own variety show starting in '51.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||October 16, 2021 11:40 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 56||October 17, 2021 12:01 AM|
What about Bel Powley?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||October 17, 2021 12:04 AM|
They will most likely cast a quince...
|by Anonymous||reply 58||October 17, 2021 12:34 AM|
I was just about to post that Dinah Shore didn't have the perfect frame for '50s TV, she always seemed bigger than the screen. Then I just checked. She was 5'3". Yet I remember her as so tall and elegant.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||October 17, 2021 12:43 AM|
Dinah was top heavy. Noted for her tits when she was starting out and getting show biz breaks from Eddie Cantor.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||October 17, 2021 12:49 AM|
On TV her only rival in the 1950s and early '60s was Perry Como.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||October 17, 2021 12:54 AM|
There's something else these three women all have: great voices. So warm, and with that intimacy that lets you somehow feel you really know them. And like them.
I assume this comes from their radio training, when the voice was all a performer had to offer.
That's a lost art today. Listen to Mayim. Her voice is OK, better than nearly all the contenders'. But it's pretty clear she's had no training. She speaks as host exactly the way she speaks on the phone. She'd be so much better as host if a voice trainer worked with her on developing that warm engaging tone that brought Dinah, Betty and Arlene such success.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||October 17, 2021 1:07 AM|
R61 For tits?
|by Anonymous||reply 63||October 17, 2021 1:10 AM|
Who was Milton Berle's rival?
|by Anonymous||reply 64||October 17, 2021 1:11 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 65||October 17, 2021 1:12 AM|
[quote]Who was Milton Berle's rival? For dick, obv.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||October 17, 2021 1:13 AM|
Betty Furness and Harriet Hilliard Nelson (of Ozzie and Harriet) each show up in different Fred Astaire-Ginger Rogers movies as the 2nd female lead way back in the 1930s.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||October 17, 2021 1:15 AM|
I see that we've turned our attention away from Arlene to dick, but, R64, David Steinberg, who saw Uncle Miltie in all his glorious wonder, has recently written that Berle wasn't as well-endowed as he wanted people to believe he was.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||October 17, 2021 1:28 AM|
WHET David Steinberg?
|by Anonymous||reply 69||October 17, 2021 1:46 AM|
R69, apart from a Showtime series he helmed in the ‘10s where he interviewed other comedians, he’s been a top go-to director of TV sit coms - think Golden Girls, Mad About You, Friends & Curb - since the ‘80s.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||October 17, 2021 1:59 AM|
Arlene was one of those people who couldn’t sit still. On WML she was always plugging her appearances in theatre, sometimes on Broadway but more often at local suburban theaters in places like Paramus or Mineola. This on top of her TV and radio jobs. She obviously didn’t need the money.
I read her memoir and she had not one but two anecdotes in there which had to do with her public hair. One about having it shaved into the shape of a heart and dyed red. I believe this was behind Martin giving her the trademark heart necklace. Another anecdote later in the book detailed that no matter what her hair color at any time she was always Armenian in hair color down below. I really wasn’t expecting to get that kind of candor in an old lady’s autobiography.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||October 17, 2021 2:05 AM|
Martin was probably a cunning linguist.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||October 17, 2021 2:10 AM|
Martin was the Liev Schreiber of his era as he was a leading voiceover artist.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||October 17, 2021 2:17 AM|
Martin was brilliant in his small role in Lord Love A Duck. Both he and Arlene were reliable performers; you could count on them to come in prepared and do at least a solid job. Sometimes, when the role was right (as with Martin in LLAD, or Arlene in One Two Three) they was really great. And speaking of Arlene in OTT, she held her own against James Cagney, which is saying a helluva lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||October 17, 2021 2:28 AM|
I think Arlene is really fine in "The Thrill of It All", too, especially the opening upon hearing of her pregnancy. "One, Two, Three", while now dated because of the fall of the Berlin Wall, is still a fast-moving and hilarious hoot.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||October 17, 2021 2:32 AM|
I believe Arlene's casting in 123 originated with Billy Wilder telling his casting people he wanted an "Arlene Francis type'" for Cagney's wife.
I think Arlene had something of a Broadway hit in the mid-60s with a glamorous all-star revival of DINNER AT EIGHT in which she played the Marie Dressler role. The cast included Darren McGavin, Walter Pidgeon, June Havoc and Arlene's 123 co-star Pamela Tiffin.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||October 17, 2021 3:34 AM|
Look how tiny Dinah's (granted cinched) waist is...
|by Anonymous||reply 77||October 17, 2021 3:50 AM|
Did Dinah and Carol Channing ever do a medley of Negro Spirituals together?
|by Anonymous||reply 78||October 17, 2021 3:53 AM|
WML? with the Dinner at Eight cast...
|by Anonymous||reply 79||October 17, 2021 4:06 AM|
Francis seemed old playing Cagney's wife in One, Two, Three and had a relatively minor role.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||October 17, 2021 4:09 AM|
Oh, yeah. It was Arlene who seemed OLD.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||October 17, 2021 4:11 AM|
Miss Francis totally redefined the meaning of character actress in the legitimate theater.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||October 17, 2021 4:14 AM|
I think she'd glare at you (then smile -- cameras are on) if the person sitting to her right on 'What's My Line" introduced her as "the dozen of New York's character actresses", though.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||October 17, 2021 5:46 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 84||October 17, 2021 5:46 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 85||October 17, 2021 5:48 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 86||October 17, 2021 5:51 AM|
More of a personality than performer
|by Anonymous||reply 87||October 17, 2021 6:05 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 88||October 17, 2021 6:14 AM|
As a reflection of just how much the memory of another Goodson-Todman game show doyenne has receded, today’s Newsday crossword puzzle - always exponentially tougher than the Times’s Saturday puzzle - has this clue: “Six-decade game show panelist in A Night at the Opera.”
|by Anonymous||reply 89||October 23, 2021 7:32 PM|
R69, David Steinberg has written an autobiography "Inside Comedy", published this year.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||October 23, 2021 8:46 PM|
She had a potty mouth!
|by Anonymous||reply 91||October 23, 2021 8:55 PM|
I read Steinberg’s book, R90. My greatest takeaway was that he liked everyone he worked … with the exception of Bea Arthur. He related that Bea once asked him why people took such an instant dislike to her. He told her it just saves time. He also wrote about seeing Uncle Miltie in the nude. He said that Berle liked people to think he was more endowed than he really was.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||October 23, 2021 9:24 PM|
Oh, I met someone who worked for the Friars club who told me Berle had a very big dick.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||October 23, 2021 10:29 PM|
Did he mention the temperature in the room?
|by Anonymous||reply 94||October 23, 2021 10:39 PM|
Gentleman, can we please move this dick discussion elsewhere, somewhere not in the presence of a lady like Miss Francis?
|by Anonymous||reply 95||October 23, 2021 10:45 PM|
[quote]Gentleman, can we please move this dick discussion elsewhere, somewhere not in the presence of a lady like Miss Francis?
|by Anonymous||reply 96||October 24, 2021 2:37 AM|
What was Arlene's favorite word for the male member?
|by Anonymous||reply 97||October 24, 2021 2:53 AM|
I was getting confused then I realized this wasn't the Arlene Dahl thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||October 24, 2021 3:54 AM|
Nah, r98, yer Miss Arlene Dahl thread is here...
|by Anonymous||reply 99||October 24, 2021 4:01 AM|
R99, can you likewise direct me to the Arlene Golonka thread?
|by Anonymous||reply 100||October 24, 2021 4:05 AM|
sigh...Fine, r100, but this is the last one. I need to get back to Mimeo.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||October 24, 2021 4:11 AM|
[quote] What was Arlene's favorite word for the male member?
|by Anonymous||reply 102||October 24, 2021 6:15 PM|
The Sal Mimeo thread, R101?
|by Anonymous||reply 103||October 24, 2021 6:20 PM|
r7 - Phyllis Newman was a wonderful talent. She had a lot to offer as a singer and an actress.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||October 24, 2021 6:30 PM|
The Sal Mimeo thread, r103, or the Sal Mimeo Mimeo thread?
|by Anonymous||reply 105||October 24, 2021 6:35 PM|
I wouldn't mind a mimeo of Mineo in his pool scenes in "Who Killed Teddy Bear?"
|by Anonymous||reply 106||October 24, 2021 6:37 PM|
I dispute that Dinah Shore was 5' 3." She was, by her own admission, closer to 5' 6." I have photos of her standing next to Andy Williams who was about 5' 7" and she is taller because of her heels. She is about the same height as Peggy Lee - who was 5' 6." I was a huge fan as a kid and I met her a few times.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||October 24, 2021 6:46 PM|
Arlene looks like an Armenian American house frau in that commercial. Her husband just got a raise at his factory job.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||October 24, 2021 6:47 PM|
She had...that certain something...
|by Anonymous||reply 109||October 24, 2021 6:50 PM|
Like JP Morgan on the Gong Show- She was known for being a personality and being famous and didn’t have much of a career before that or ever.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||October 24, 2021 6:52 PM|
At first this sounds crazy - Arlene and Helen Mirren have very similar facial features and mannerisms. They both have that “knowing” merry look in their eyes - but intelligent and classy at the same time.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||October 24, 2021 7:01 PM|
Helen would be an ideal choice for an Arlene biopic.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||October 24, 2021 7:03 PM|
Well, Helen featured a lot more nudity in her career.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||October 24, 2021 7:04 PM|
Arlene would have done a topless scene, I'm sure. It's just that no one asked.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||October 24, 2021 7:06 PM|
I could see Arlene playing Mrs. Kendall in "The Elephant Man" had she been the right age when it was done.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||October 24, 2021 7:07 PM|
All they had to do, r114, is ask!
|by Anonymous||reply 116||October 24, 2021 7:09 PM|
During her hey day on American television (1951-1967), Arlene surely got some great plastic surgery done but I've always wondered how and when as she seemed to be virtually on camera all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think WML only took a brief month off during the summers and even then, Arlene was usually touring in stock.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||October 24, 2021 7:10 PM|
For someone who had a child at a later age, she managed to stay well preserved. Bette Davis and Lucy both aged pretty quickly after having their first children in their late thirties…especially Bette.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||October 24, 2021 7:13 PM|
[quote] Helen would be an ideal choice for an Arlene biopic.
Any such production would have to tackle her murderess tendencies.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||October 24, 2021 7:21 PM|
[quote] Like JP Morgan on the Gong Show- She was known for being a personality and being famous and didn’t have much of a career before that or ever.
R110, you are completely full of shit. She had a big stage career both on Broadway (25 shows) and in stock. Big radio career,TV guest spots, and a sprinkling of films.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||October 24, 2021 9:03 PM|
Arlene lifted weights. That says a lot about her attitude to maintaining her body.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||October 25, 2021 12:03 AM|
[Quote] At first this sounds crazy - Arlene and Helen Mirren have very similar facial features
That doesn't sound crazy. Helen Mirren came to mind when I Image Searched photos of younger Arlene.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||October 25, 2021 12:04 AM|
Dinner at Eight
|by Anonymous||reply 123||October 25, 2021 12:07 AM|
[quote]Like JP Morgan on the Gong Show- She was known for being a personality and being famous and didn’t have much of a career before that or ever.
You don't know what you're talking about.
And BTW: Jaye P. Morgan had quite a career in the 1950s: top-10 hit records, plenty of TV appearances including her own TV show.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||October 25, 2021 12:12 AM|
And Jaye P. is family to boot.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||October 25, 2021 12:13 AM|
I loved watching the original WML as a little kid, it was very special getting to stay up late on those Sunday nights. I was obsessed with Dorothy Kilgallen but found Arlene kind of boring.
But when I rediscovered the show about 15 years ago on youtube and started watching all the episodes again (and by now I've seen them multiple times) I'm absolutely floored by how spontaneously clever and witty and gracious Arlene always was....it went over my head as a child, I guess. She's always so complimentary to the Mystery Guests when they're revealed, often the first to mention how wonderful they are in their latest project. I can't imagine she wasn't beloved by all of her colleagues. That kind of effervescent personality has sorely been missing from TV for a very long time now.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||October 25, 2021 12:15 AM|
Used to confuse Jaye P Morgan and singer Jane Morgan, but the former was infinitely hip and the latter......well, she just wasn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||October 25, 2021 12:17 AM|
[quote] Arlene lifted weights
It was one of those weights that killed one of her victims.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||October 25, 2021 12:18 AM|
[quote]but found Arlene kind of boring.
Same for me when I was a kid. She really didn't register.
But now I'm so impressed everything she did on that show.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||October 25, 2021 12:21 AM|
^But now I'm so impressed with everything she did on that show.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||October 25, 2021 12:21 AM|
Jaye P. did a disco album in the 70s that is surprisingly good. Beautifully produced. Give it a listen.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||October 25, 2021 12:25 AM|
I think it was produced by David Foster.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||October 25, 2021 12:27 AM|
Arlene was not the one who used a weight to prop open the window. It was her maid. Arlene and Martin weren’t even there ar the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||October 25, 2021 1:07 AM|
[quote] Arlene was not the one who used a weight to prop open the window. It was her maid. Arlene and Martin weren’t even there ar the time.
I never said otherwise. I just said that "[i]t was one of those weights that killed one of her victims." Unless it was the maid's weight.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||October 25, 2021 1:26 AM|
HER victims. Don't pretend you didn't know what you were doing with that word.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||October 25, 2021 1:27 AM|
If Arlene didn't kill him, how is he "one of her victims" R126/R134?
|by Anonymous||reply 136||October 25, 2021 1:28 AM|
C'mon, R135/136, this is Datalounge, where bitchery is part of our constitution. And she WAS associated with the accidental deaths of two people.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||October 25, 2021 1:30 AM|
What is your problem, r137? You sound like a real cunt. And you’re a bore, too, which is an even bigger sin on DL.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||October 25, 2021 1:54 AM|
Am I a boor or a bore, R138? I'll take either.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||October 25, 2021 1:57 AM|
Strange how another singer cut 4 of the same tracks as Jaye P. Morgans 1976 album the next year. "You're All I Need to Get By" is the only really famous song of the four.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||October 25, 2021 2:38 AM|
R79 That episode perfectly sums up why I like WML, yes they could all be elitists, but they celebrated each other's triumphs like they were their own.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||October 25, 2021 2:43 AM|
Did you know Bennett Cerf was related to Ginger Rogers?
|by Anonymous||reply 142||October 25, 2021 2:45 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 143||October 25, 2021 2:48 AM|
Dinner at Eight is one straight play, that I think could be turned into a fun musical.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||October 25, 2021 2:53 AM|
[quote]Strange how another singer cut 4 of the same tracks as Jaye P. Morgans 1976 album the next year. "You're All I Need to Get By" is the only really famous song of the four.
Jaye P.'s performance on "You're All I Need to Get By" is very skillful.
Anyway, Arlene Francis never cut a disco album. So there's that.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||October 25, 2021 3:14 AM|
[quote]Arlene was not the one who used a weight to prop open the window. It was her maid. Arlene and Martin weren’t even there ar the time.
I propped mine open with the fookin baby, and won a Grammy for it.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||October 25, 2021 3:16 AM|
The production on Jaye's version is good. The vocal layering hides her somewhat thin voice. She sounds like late period Dusty Springfield at times.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||October 25, 2021 3:35 AM|
This is basically the same arrangement as Jaye's. How odd. Foster is credited for arranging Jaisun's "Closet Man," so maybe he was behind both projects.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||October 25, 2021 3:37 AM|
Jaye would have been 45 years old when she did that album.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||October 25, 2021 4:01 AM|
When I was a kid I used to think Arlene Francis and Kitty Carlisle were the same person who just switched wigs from "What's My Line" to "To Tell the Truth".
|by Anonymous||reply 150||October 25, 2021 5:22 AM|
They did look like sisters.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||October 25, 2021 5:26 AM|
Arlene broke down in tears live on the radio when Bennett Cerf died.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||October 25, 2021 5:31 AM|
Kate Micucci looks has a Dorothy Kilgallen.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||October 25, 2021 9:29 AM|
Micucci is cringeworthy in everything she does. She lacks Kilgallen's cut throat menace. She and Cerf played to win on WML, but Bennett did it with a bit more finesse.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||October 25, 2021 1:51 PM|
Ginger Rogers was first cousin to Bennett Cerf’s wife Phyllis. Ginger was a frequent house guest of the Cerfs. It was mentioned that she was residing with them when she made an appearance on WML in the early 60s, and that obituary posted at r152 says she was a guest in 1971 at the time of his death. Was Ginger broke or something that made her stay with them so often? Surely she wasn’t a house guest all that time.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||October 25, 2021 1:57 PM|
Maybe the Cerfs loved her and she loved them, r155?
I've read Bennett Cerf's biography and while it's somewhat entertaining, he really could have written a ferocious tell-all about the hundreds of celebrities he hobnobbed with in all aspects of the arts from first wife Sylvia Sidney (who he divorced because he was jealous of her greater fame), Frank Sinatra (Bennett was an honorary member of The Rat Pack) to Marilyn Monroe (he wrote a fab profile of her for Esquire), to every important author and playwright of the 20th century (Bennett was, of course, the Random House lead publisher). As outspoken as he was, he was an old-fashioned gentleman and knew how to keep his mouth shut in print.
But there's a wonderful audio interview Bennett did near the end of his life where he loosens up and talks all about WML, his dislike of Dorothy Kilgallen and many other things. Check it online. Sorry not to provide a link.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||October 25, 2021 2:31 PM|
[quote]But there's a wonderful audio interview Bennett did near the end of his life where he loosens up and talks all about WML, his dislike of Dorothy Kilgallen and many other things. Check it online. Sorry not to provide a link.
Dorothy's politics were a bit more right-wing than the rest of the regulars, but what frosted Bennett's biscuits was Dorothy's attitude that anything and everything was fodder for her newspaper column. He thought some things should stay among friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||October 25, 2021 10:52 PM|
R157 While she might have leaned to the right, she was killed for trying to uncover the truth about the JFK assassination. People who knew her, and most biographers agree that because of her Catholicism she would never have killed herself and she wasn't the type of person to accidently kill herself either.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||October 26, 2021 12:53 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 159||October 26, 2021 12:55 AM|
Through the smoke, Bennett Cerf interviewed by Mike Wallace.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||October 26, 2021 1:18 AM|
Bennett is now famously remembered (if at all) for his horribly old-fashioned attitudes towards women's liberation (he persisted on calling women "girls"), rock and roll (he insisted it was a passing fad), avant-garde theater (he thought Waiting for Godot was a lot of nonsense) and the sack dress ("a disturbing abomination!").
|by Anonymous||reply 161||October 26, 2021 1:30 AM|
Well, he was right about the sack dress
He was right about "Waiting for Godot".
And as we now know, Rock&Roll was indeed a passing fad, though it took a while to pass from fashion.
As for calling women "girls": it's a lot more sensible than claiming men can be women.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||October 26, 2021 1:40 AM|
[quote] he persisted on calling women "girls"
How dare he, a man born in the 19th Century?!
|by Anonymous||reply 163||October 26, 2021 1:42 AM|
The T obsessive will always find a way to change the subject to his fave.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||October 26, 2021 1:43 AM|
[quote] Her acting was incidental…
😂 I love it when jokes tell themselves.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||October 26, 2021 1:47 AM|
Incidental as two lentils?
|by Anonymous||reply 166||October 26, 2021 2:21 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 167||October 26, 2021 3:28 AM|
Well aren’t we all chummy up here in Mount Kisco? …. Actually a few years ago I googled Bennett Cerf in Mt Kisco New York - it gave his address and I don’t remember if it had a real estate listing or not - but there were several beautiful photos of his house. I don’t think I looked up Arlene & Martin Gabel’s Mt Kisco house …
|by Anonymous||reply 168||October 26, 2021 9:00 AM|
Around 1932, Cerf went to Paris, met James Joyce, signed him up as a Random House author, then returned to the U.S. and fought the court battle to overturn the U.S. Customs ban on Ulysses.
In my book, that if nothing else earns him his star in the Literary Hall of Fame.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||October 26, 2021 9:01 PM|
Here’s Bennett’s house
|by Anonymous||reply 170||October 26, 2021 9:19 PM|
Ted Geisel was far and away Cerf's most profitable author. Children's books like his never grow out of fashion. They just keep selling and selling.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||October 26, 2021 9:31 PM|
Here's more pics of Bennett's house.
It really is such a comfortable looking house. I love the grounds.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||October 26, 2021 10:16 PM|
As a little kid I fantasized about the WML mentions of Bennett's home on Mt. Kisco and thought of it as some kind of little kingdom. It helped that they sometimes referred to him as the Count of Mt. Kisco.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||October 26, 2021 10:21 PM|
I've always had the sense that his wife Phyliss must have been quite a handful. After he died you can see her throwing down her pearls in disgust and declaring Mame-like that she is NOT going to be spending the rest of her life as the Widow Cerf.
And so she became Mrs. Robert Wagner, and lived another 35 years after Cerf's death.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||October 26, 2021 10:24 PM|
Do you think she donned a sack dress in celebration of Bennett's death, r174?
|by Anonymous||reply 175||October 26, 2021 10:27 PM|
I think Arlene's house was on an adjoining lot within walking distance. Looking at the satellite Google street view there are some lovely old houses on both sides of Orchard Road, but part of the land butting up to Cerf's house has a cul-de-sac of newer mcmansions, so that land was sold off by somebody for developers. No idea which old house might of been hers or if it was torn down. I do know it had a pool as Arlene mentions it in her memoir. Saw Mill Parkway runs behind Orchard, so the traffic noise must be considerable there (the highway opened in 1954, so it was build around the time they all lived there).
Anyway - why am I stalking these old, dead people?
|by Anonymous||reply 176||October 26, 2021 10:42 PM|
[quote] Anyway - why am I stalking these old, dead people?
Because they had more class and elegance in their small toes than most current stars have in their entire bodies.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||October 26, 2021 10:45 PM|
Idk about that, R177, as that outtake upthread shows, Arlene had a filthy mouth. The so-called class & elegance may be a reflection of the belief that the past was so much better.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||October 26, 2021 10:50 PM|
R178 OMG she said shit, let me clutch my pearls and grab the smelling salts.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||October 26, 2021 10:52 PM|
Oh please, r178. Loretta had a swear jar *and* an illegitimate kid.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||October 26, 2021 10:52 PM|
Classy women don’t have a potty mouth. Just sayin’.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||October 26, 2021 11:20 PM|
Yes, that's it indeed r177.
OK, so I found an old Facebook page where someone who grew up in Mt Kisco posted a 1960 local news article about some kids blowing up Arlene's mailbox with firecrackers and the address given was 4 Orchard Road. So, if that is correct then this is her house (as it was built in 1925).
|by Anonymous||reply 182||October 26, 2021 11:27 PM|
Thank you for the links to the Mount Kisco homes! Aren’t they beauties? They spoke of Mount Kisco so frequently on the show - so neat to see them. ….. Bennett being a liberal Democrat must have had some tense moments with Ginger Rogers - I have a feeling if she was alive today she would be a Trumper.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||October 26, 2021 11:42 PM|
She was married to Martin Gabel and they were a very social theatrical couple and knew everybody. Gabel played the part of “Strutt” in Hitchcock’s Marnie. I read Bennet Cerf’s memoir At Random and the couple figure largely as a part of their social group.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||October 26, 2021 11:48 PM|
So according this this article, when the barbell fell from Arlene's window and killed a guy (1960) she and Martin were living at the Ritz Tower at the corner of Park Avenue and East 57th Street.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||October 27, 2021 12:01 AM|
In 1967 and 1968 Bennett Cerf was interviewed extensively by journalist Robin Hawkins for an oral history project about notable New Yorkers. On January 23, 1968, he spoke for almost 40 minutes about his experiences on "What's My Line?". This is part one.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||October 27, 2021 12:15 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 187||October 27, 2021 12:15 AM|
Argh. My bad about the house I posted at r182. That house at 4 Orchard wasn't Arlene's. Apparently the street numbers on that street were reorganized at some point. The Gabels' place is described as up a 200 yard long driveway and it was built in 1957 so it clearly is a different houe. It may have been demolished, but some posters and one real estate site say the house ended up being the one now located at 9 Caren Court (the street where a new subdivision was built around it). Zillow says that house was built in 1965 (the house is clearly decades older than the rest on that street and it does have the pool). It hasn't been on the market in recent years so there aren't any pictures to be found.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||October 27, 2021 12:30 AM|
My father drove a cab and once had Arlene as a passenger. He referred to her as a “pot marked bitch” whenever he saw her on tv or someone mentioned her name.
This had to be sometime in the early to mid 60s when I was a kid, so I don’t remember the particulars.
|by Anonymous||reply 189||October 27, 2021 12:37 AM|
Martin would hit her in the head with a fondue pot, r189.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||October 27, 2021 12:47 AM|
Ignore part two of the Cerf interview as it's just a repeat of part one.
A brief summary. He loved Arlene & John Daly, but Dorothy, who wrote a "disgusting column," was always the outsider. He & the others didn't like her politics & that she was always the reporter, with one such incident involving Mike Wallace causing John Daly's permanent dislike. He did say she was a "nice woman," with none of her "cattiness" from her column in person. He said he started out making $300 a week, eventually making a "scandalous" amount later on, which included profit-sharing.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||October 27, 2021 1:00 AM|
Then there was the Famous Writers School scandal, in 1970. I often wondered whether it was a factor in Bennett's death at 73 in '71. It certainly was hugely embarrassing to a man who had spent his life developing his reputation.
Jessica Mitford was a master with the knife. Here's Bennett's reply when she asks how many graduates of the school have written for Random House:
"Oh, come on, you must be pulling my leg—no person of any sophistication, whose book we'd publish, would have to take a mail-order course to learn how to write."
Her exposé is still worth a read today to learn how a good writer does it.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||October 27, 2021 2:28 AM|
I had never before seen the original WML in living color.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||November 27, 2021 11:10 PM|
"In Living Color" was an NBC phrase. WML was on CBS. (Those things counted at that time.)
|by Anonymous||reply 194||November 27, 2021 11:19 PM|
Is that What's My Line taped in color, or is it a colorized episode? I know CBS filmed one episode of Perry Mason in color to see how it looked
|by Anonymous||reply 195||November 28, 2021 12:24 AM|
[quote] Because they had more class and elegance in their small toes than most current stars have in their entire bodies.
It only seems like it because they didn’t have social media back then. Look at all of those biographies about famous entertainers who were exposed as not being like their public persona.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||November 28, 2021 2:44 PM|
But this was live unscripted TV year in and year out for around 17 years. Bennett and Arlene and John and Dorothy couldn't hide their real selves that long.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||November 28, 2021 5:05 PM|
^^^ Not unless you consider them brilliant character actors. ;)
|by Anonymous||reply 198||November 28, 2021 7:50 PM|
They were playing a game for an hour. It was hardly Celebrity Big Brother.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||November 28, 2021 7:53 PM|
R199 You're obviously not even familiar with WML, just troll posting.
|by Anonymous||reply 200||November 28, 2021 8:55 PM|
Daly and Cerf didn't like Kilgallen. Was that obvious watching the show? No, it wasn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||November 28, 2021 9:10 PM|
R201 The tension between Dorothy and John was obvious from time to time. If you'd actually watched the shows.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||November 28, 2021 9:22 PM|
Hindsight is 20/20, r202.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||November 28, 2021 9:27 PM|
Here's Arlene cunting it up with Jackie Kennedy. She's oh so subtle, but Jackie knew what time it was.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||November 28, 2021 9:31 PM|
Arlene's chef d'oeuvre, "The Thrill of It All," is on TCM today.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||November 28, 2021 9:38 PM|
Martin Gabel was great as the Viennese shrink in Billy Wilder's remake of The Front Page. After being shot in the nuts by Austin Pendleton: "Fruitcake! Fruitcake!"
|by Anonymous||reply 206||November 28, 2021 9:49 PM|
No one on the show really liked Dorothy. the tension was one of the things that made the show---once she was gone, something seemed to be missing. They should have gotten a new shrew, but I would imagine that most of them would have been more obvious than her.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||November 29, 2021 1:20 AM|
[quote]No one on the show really liked Dorothy. the tension was one of the things that made the show---once she was gone, something seemed to be missing. They should have gotten a new shrew, but I would imagine that most of them would have been more obvious than her.
You could have written that, word-for-word, about "The Golden Girls."
|by Anonymous||reply 208||November 29, 2021 1:22 AM|