Terrifying
Trump's Lawyer: 6-Point Plan for Pence to Overturn the Election
by Anonymous | reply 227 | September 29, 2021 9:55 PM |
Wow, it's stunning how seriously they were trying to overturn this election and create chaos. And a willing VP could have done it.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | September 21, 2021 7:40 PM |
Given that Eastman references Lawrence Tribe more than once in this document, I wonder if Tribe will comment and swat this treasonous nonsense down.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | September 21, 2021 7:40 PM |
The country would have exploded if Pence had done this.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | September 21, 2021 7:41 PM |
R2, it's weird that Eastman thinks that, just because Tribe apparently argued that, Tribe reflect the entire Democratic Party
by Anonymous | reply 4 | September 21, 2021 7:42 PM |
Precisely the scenario that somebody had written about last September. I cannot remember where, though.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | September 21, 2021 7:44 PM |
The only revenge we're going to get on Trump is him turning into a grotesque, deranged loon. Fatter, balder, crazier, poorer, oranger, angrier... The gold-plated billionaire will be a distant memory.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | September 21, 2021 7:45 PM |
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the DL before now. I was actually searching for it to see if anyone had posted it.
I've noticed the bash-Biden trolls are out in force today, so possibly they've been mobilized to direct attention away from it.
January 6th is looking more and more like an American Beer Hall Putsch. Which means they'll try again, and probably do it next time.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | September 21, 2021 8:13 PM |
Fake news.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | September 21, 2021 8:35 PM |
This is Treason. Hang him!
by Anonymous | reply 9 | September 21, 2021 8:37 PM |
They tried this past Saturday, r7. Only 200 people showed up. They were outnumbered by the police.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | September 21, 2021 8:38 PM |
R10 no, they didn't. No major Republican showed up to that event. That wasn't an attempt, just some jackholes bad at organizing events.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | September 21, 2021 9:16 PM |
Sure they tried on Saturday, and they failed miserably on Saturday.
They'll try it again, probably on the state level since DC is ready for their fat asses at any time now.
Fuck 'em. They're begging for beatings, gassings and shootings of every treasonous fucker who shows up. They think it will create martyrs. I don't. The same people who consider Hitler a "martyr" will consider these traitors the same way. Who cares what a bunch of people too stupid to see through Hitler believe.
Take them out.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | September 21, 2021 9:25 PM |
Trump's big chance was January 6th. When Pence held firm to the Constitution, he was fucked. He'll never get close to the White House again. If he tries, he'll die suddenly of a 'heart attack.' The military and the security services aren't fucking around about this anymore.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | September 21, 2021 9:29 PM |
The lawyer is a real piece of work, too.
[quote]Eastman isn't swimming in the same the bowl of Froot Loops as Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, but his feet are milk-stained. He's the same guy who pushed the racist argument that Kamala Harris wasn't legally eligible to serve as vice president; as board chairman of the extremely extremist National Organization for Marriage, he had an awful lot of thoughts on homosexuality's "barbarism" and supported Uganda's kill-the-gays law; and he eagerly offered Trump a draft for the next Civil War.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | September 21, 2021 9:40 PM |
These items are always written as if they tried once, failed, and they’ll never try again.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | September 21, 2021 9:43 PM |
Say what you want about Lindsay Graham and Pence (and they are shitbags), they didn't go for this. Pence probably ruined whatever political career he had by going against Trump, but he did the right thing.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | September 21, 2021 9:52 PM |
Um, Lindsey continued to claim that the vote was fraudulent even though he knew better. He also pressured Georgia to "find" votes from Trump
by Anonymous | reply 17 | September 21, 2021 9:59 PM |
R16 I'm guessing you didn't see that bit from Woodward's new book about how Pence tried his hardest to do what Trump wanted, to the point of calling Dan Quayle, who told him he had no leeway and to not even think about it - essentially talked him out of committing outright treason.
Pence was a loyal soldier to the end, but wasn't willing to break the law so overtly for Trump. Behind the scenes I'm sure he'd have (and has) no problem.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | September 22, 2021 2:12 AM |
More Evidence of Trump Crimes Revealed: John Eastman 6-Point-Plan to Overturn Election Results
by Anonymous | reply 20 | September 22, 2021 2:34 AM |
R2 Tribe has already commented. He made a bunch of separate posts, so I'll put the most interesting ones here.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | September 22, 2021 2:37 AM |
And yet half of American still supports the charlatan
by Anonymous | reply 23 | September 22, 2021 2:53 AM |
[quote]Yo, John. Is you typing up legal memos on a criminal fucking conspiracy? - David Simon
by Anonymous | reply 24 | September 22, 2021 6:16 AM |
[quote]I've noticed the bash-Biden trolls are out in force today, so possibly they've been mobilized to direct attention away from it.
That and the two long-time GOP operatives who are being charged in federal court with pay-for-play to get a Russian oligarch private access to Trump.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | September 22, 2021 8:55 AM |
[quote]half of American still supports the charlatan
No. The best poll Trump has had was the August Rasmussen poll where 43% of likely voters said they'd vote Trump, which is lower than the 47% of voters Trump actually got in 2020. That 43% works out to about 26% of voting-age adults, so we're looking at maybe one-quarter of Americans supporting Trump.
Not half. It's never been half. I don't know why people want to exaggerate his support.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | September 22, 2021 9:03 AM |
R26, yes but it’s a very motivated voting block, unlike the Dem base
by Anonymous | reply 27 | September 22, 2021 10:54 AM |
[quote] The country would have exploded if Pence had done this.
Your goddamn right. Even my fat ass would’ve gotten to DC somehow. Even if they didn’t offer donuts.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | September 22, 2021 11:20 AM |
R25 good point. The Russia connections seem to be Trump's biggest sore spot, so it wouldn't surprise me.
Of course from him that means it's totally true. He is an unwitting master of projection.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | September 22, 2021 2:02 PM |
R28 that's what they wanted. Then he could invoke the insurrection act.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | September 22, 2021 2:03 PM |
R26 also Rasmussen is a known right wing pollster. Their results are always skewed.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | September 22, 2021 2:03 PM |
R24 I liked this comment on that tweet:
"Don't write anything you can phone. Don't phone anything you can talk. Don't talk anything you can whisper. Don't whisper anything you can smile. Don't smile anything you can nod. Don't nod anything you can wink." - Earl Long
by Anonymous | reply 32 | September 22, 2021 2:04 PM |
Agree with the country exploding. They really thought they could use a procedural trick to steal the election and the public would just let them? Arrogant fools.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | September 22, 2021 2:21 PM |
Trump is still trying to get Georgia to over turn the election.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | September 22, 2021 4:09 PM |
Forget Trump. Pay attention the Trump cultists who are looking to infiltrate state election infrastructures. They're the real threat.
"Reuters interviewed nine of the 15 declared Republican candidates for secretary of state in five battleground states — Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada — and reviewed public statements by all of the candidates. Ten of the 15 have either declared that the 2020 election was stolen or called for their state’s results to be invalidated or further investigated."
by Anonymous | reply 35 | September 22, 2021 4:13 PM |
In a country run by the rule of law everyone involved with this would already be under active investigation and/or in jail. If not, we effectively legalize this insurrection.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | September 22, 2021 4:18 PM |
I fear we already have, r36, what with the limited prosecutions of the “nobodies” who were collared and no one of any import or substance for their roles.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | September 22, 2021 4:22 PM |
by Anonymous | reply 38 | September 22, 2021 4:26 PM |
Tom is pretty spot on.
I can't believe that the NYT has ignored it. Failure of journalism.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | September 22, 2021 5:16 PM |
The NY Times is on it for sure. It will take one or two days, but NYTimes will have an indepth article on it
by Anonymous | reply 40 | September 22, 2021 5:24 PM |
I really hope the Justice Department announces an investigation. This is actual treason.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | September 22, 2021 5:25 PM |
Apparently the memo being quoted is just the summary. There's six pages of it, and it's even worse.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | September 22, 2021 5:27 PM |
Tribe also announces he thinks pronouns are stupid (more or less).
The they/thems are not having it!
by Anonymous | reply 43 | September 22, 2021 5:30 PM |
And so, have we heard from any Republican regarding these latest revelations?
by Anonymous | reply 44 | September 22, 2021 6:09 PM |
The Republicans are very very concerned about Hunter Biden's laptop again, r44. Very concerned. Whole lotta concerns.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | September 22, 2021 6:13 PM |
R43, I also think THEY is stupid to use as it upends everything we know about the English language. Create another pronoun but They is just bad English
by Anonymous | reply 46 | September 22, 2021 6:18 PM |
As am I.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | September 22, 2021 6:18 PM |
Susan Collins levels of concern, r45? Or just a normal "concern"?
by Anonymous | reply 48 | September 22, 2021 6:19 PM |
Susan Collins is always operating at a Republican level of concern, I've noticed.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | September 22, 2021 6:23 PM |
The Times is more concerned about the debt ceiling/spending bill and Haitian immigrants today.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | September 22, 2021 7:22 PM |
The NYT ignoring this outline for how Trump was going to steal the election is super sketchy.
by Anonymous | reply 51 | September 22, 2021 7:26 PM |
The NY TImes just had a big article on the how the Trump campaign knew the claims of fraud were baseless. Yet they still let Rudy and co. make fools of themselves.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | September 22, 2021 7:59 PM |
by Anonymous | reply 53 | September 22, 2021 8:19 PM |
R44 they've been graveyard quiet about it, and throwing up new distractions.
I hope that Hunter Biden laptop story by the Politico "journalist" banishes any remaining assumptions that Politico isn't a right wing news outlet.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | September 22, 2021 10:28 PM |
I don't understand why all of this hoopla about Hunter Biden's laptop from the right
by Anonymous | reply 55 | September 22, 2021 10:44 PM |
The plan much good! Very solid!
by Anonymous | reply 56 | September 22, 2021 10:51 PM |
In my opinion: It's a distraction tool they've invested millions into, first in an attempt to make Biden seem corrupt (because they can't make Trump look LESS corrupt) and now as a distraction and for Biden and the Democrats. It's also red meat for their base. I expect there are some who were/are hoping Hunter will commit suicide and distract Biden even further than way.
Of course even if any of the allegations are true (they're not) they don't compare at all to Trump's grifting children who were actually setting policy in the Whitehouse, but all that matters is that it's something Republicans can point to when anyone mentions Trump's corruption, and it also discredits faith in the Federal government in general, which is another running theme of theirs.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | September 22, 2021 10:51 PM |
Seems like a giant leap of faith every single Republican lead delegation would have voted for Trump had it gone to the House.
Not saying it wouldn’t of happened, but I wouldn’t have hung my hat on that.
by Anonymous | reply 58 | September 22, 2021 10:56 PM |
The laptop is the new …but her emails! The repugs will milk this for as long as they can.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | September 22, 2021 11:04 PM |
This is beyond horrifying. They all belong in jail.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | September 22, 2021 11:05 PM |
[quote]Seems like a giant leap of faith every single Republican lead delegation would have voted for Trump had it gone to the House.
Do you really think so? Here, you have a group of which 75% still believes that Obama was not born in the USA. You have 70% that believe that the election was stolen. You have 70% that are refusing to get vaccinated. What's the giant leap?
by Anonymous | reply 61 | September 22, 2021 11:15 PM |
Liz Cheney is the sole representative from WY R61.
She may have just abstained, but I don’t believe she would have voted for Trump.
by Anonymous | reply 62 | September 22, 2021 11:22 PM |
R58 the Republican party has spent the last three decades purging the party of moderates and any members that don't follow the party line. It's not guaranteed, but it is definitely not a fringe possibility, either.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | September 22, 2021 11:23 PM |
R61 Do 70% of them believe in automatic transmissions?
by Anonymous | reply 64 | September 22, 2021 11:25 PM |
[quote]Seems like a giant leap of faith every single Republican lead delegation would have voted for Trump had it gone to the House. Not saying it wouldn’t of happened, but I wouldn’t have hung my hat on that.
Not sure what cave you've been living in for the last 5 or 6 years, but yes, every Republican state delegation would have voted for Trump.
Oh, by the way: oh dear!
by Anonymous | reply 65 | September 22, 2021 11:39 PM |
Republicans "think outside the box" and can come up with a plan overnight.
During the past 40 years, the dems couldn't even come up with a supreme court strategy
We're very lucky that pence did the right thing because the dems just don't have it in them to fight anyone or anything
by Anonymous | reply 66 | September 23, 2021 12:42 AM |
[quote] Not saying it wouldn’t of happened,
Oh, dear!
(One wasn’t enough.)
by Anonymous | reply 67 | September 23, 2021 12:49 AM |
R61, it's 75% of the 25% of eligible voters in the US who identify as Republicans.
It's a lot of stupid QOPers who make up a relatively small percentage of adult American citizens. As for how "motivated" they are, they were "motivated" in 2020 and we smoked 'em. So there you go.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | September 23, 2021 1:35 AM |
The fact that Trump was willing to plunge the nation into chaos to stay in office speaks volumes of how terrified and legally exposed he felt about leaving.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | September 23, 2021 1:51 AM |
And yet nothing has happened yet, r69.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | September 23, 2021 1:58 AM |
It is dangerous only in its intense stupidity and lack of reality. It is also announcing what a united GOP is planning to do in 2024.
The VP's role in this is ceremonial. He accepts the votes from each state, there is no mechanism wherein he "approves", or "determines" the votes.
All Republicans are criminal chowderheads!
by Anonymous | reply 71 | September 23, 2021 2:00 AM |
The real problem is that the number of people that pushed the brakes on all this nonsense is dwindling and the number of people that support stuff like this is growing. We can't count on reasonable minds to prevail the next time. It's not like we almost let an extremist become president of the United States. We DID let an extremist become president.... and when he lost his re-election bid some very brave bureaucrats stopped the madness... but can we be so sure that those brave beurocrats will be able to hold something like this off next time? It's frightening. The electorate is so overwhelmingly ignorant.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | September 23, 2021 2:17 AM |
Yes, next time they'll be stopped earlier.
Look at the "J6" rally - a complete shit show and nobody went.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | September 23, 2021 2:29 AM |
What has happened to this modern Republican party?
George Will (paraphrasing)
"Well, it's one thing to be for limited government. It's one thing to be as the Founders were for a government of limited delegated and enumerated powers. This, however, is beyond political philosophy. This is clinical psychology that we have to consult. That clip that you have shown is paralyzing with its sheer insanity. I don't know how you reach people like that, Ari. I just don't. Something has happened to a small group of Americans who define their happiness as the unhappiness of everybody else. They are addicted to furiousness. Actually dopamine is released in the brain when they get angry. They are only happy when unhappy and I don't know what you do with them besides quarantine them, try to get on with politics, without them because they're not coming back."
by Anonymous | reply 74 | September 23, 2021 2:35 AM |
[quote]Look at the "J6" rally - a complete shit show and nobody went.
But, keep in mind that they were told not to come.
by Anonymous | reply 75 | September 23, 2021 2:40 AM |
Yeah and also there were no major Republicans are that event, as they likely knew it wasn't useful at the time. The rally being a bust says more about the event organizers than it does their nefarious plans.
by Anonymous | reply 76 | September 23, 2021 3:24 AM |
Look at the RESPONSE to the J6 shitshow.
Hundreds of cops. Hundreds of reporters. A counter-demonstration that was larger than the shitshow.
Do you think they'll have better luck the next time? Do you think we won't be better prepared than we were on the original J6? Do you think we won't shoot them next time, because we'll shoot those motherfuckers next time. We don't care how many casket dances you perform, we will fucking shoot you where you stand if you come at the United States ever again.
by Anonymous | reply 77 | September 23, 2021 3:30 AM |
R77 they won't need to do it that way next time. They have been quietly replacing election staff with Trump Republicans all over the country, changing laws in swing states to take control of the elections out of neutral hands and give it to Republican legislatures.
They won't need to use violence and an invasive mob, because they will have people in place in all the key locations that failed them last time.
by Anonymous | reply 78 | September 23, 2021 3:59 AM |
R78 is correct. It is now law in many red states that the legislature decides the winner in the state, just as it makes districting decisions. (Not to mention roll-purging and other voting-rights issues.)
by Anonymous | reply 79 | September 23, 2021 8:16 AM |
That's right R78 and the dems have sat back and watched it happen. The repugs can outthink the dems in their sleep
Just more of the same from the NO STRATEGY DEMS
Bye Roe v Wade. Bye voting rights
by Anonymous | reply 80 | September 23, 2021 9:23 AM |
by Anonymous | reply 82 | September 23, 2021 9:37 AM |
Okay, Mr. "NO STRATEGY DEMS" at R80, you've made you point and then some; you're starting to sound like a concern troll.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | September 23, 2021 12:25 PM |
Dems just aren’t good at propaganda. We lack menace. Even calling the fake election fraud The Big Lie lacked power.
by Anonymous | reply 84 | September 23, 2021 12:52 PM |
[quote]Okay, Mr. "NO STRATEGY DEMS" at [R80], you've made you point and then some; you're starting to sound like a concern troll.
I'm not R80 but I understand his/her/it/whatever else, concerns. The Police Reform bill is dead. How do Democrats explain this? Voting Rights is having difficulty. How will Democrats explain this should it fail? The infrastructure bills are up in the air. How can Democrats ever explain this should these bills fail? Blaming Republicans ain't going to cut it.
Then on top of all of this Republicans have been successful in reframing the SCOTUS. Numerous extreme right-wing Judges have been added to the bench. They have been quite successful in passing voter suppression bills. Women's health issues are under attack and Republicans are winning...
Democrats had better do something! Everyone is talking about the death of the Republican party but Democrats might cause their own death.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | September 23, 2021 1:08 PM |
[quote] but I understand his/her/it/whatever else, concerns.
It’s THEY!!
by Anonymous | reply 86 | September 23, 2021 1:11 PM |
[quote] The Police Reform bill is dead. How do Democrats explain this? Voting Rights is having difficulty. How will Democrats explain this should it fail? The infrastructure bills are up in the air. How can Democrats ever explain this should these bills fail? Blaming Republicans ain't going to cut it.
Police Reform and Voting Rights were NEVER going to happen. The Dems have a one vote majority--not enough to overcome a filibuster. Both the Dems and the GOP supposedly worked on Police Reform but then the GOP suddenly stopped--because it was never a true goal.
Infrastructure needs to pass because the Dem and GOP apparently agreed to the final product.
by Anonymous | reply 87 | September 23, 2021 2:24 PM |
[quote]Police Reform and Voting Rights were NEVER going to happen.
I hope you're wrong on that because if you are right on that there goes the Black vote. Black people simply will not vote.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | September 23, 2021 2:30 PM |
The filibuster is dubiously constitutional and obviously not part of the original Constitution of the US. It was established for blatantly anti-democratic purposes—even on top of the anti-democratic Senate. It has no place is a free government, whatever Kirsten Sinema may say.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | September 23, 2021 2:32 PM |
R88, no way for them to pass without GOP votes and the GOP isn't want any police reform or voting rights.
It's simple math that prevents these from passing.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | September 23, 2021 2:34 PM |
[quote] I hope you're wrong on that because if you are right on that there goes the Black vote. Black people simply will not vote.
Which is exactly why the GOP is going to make sure it doesn't happen--it will screw the Dems
by Anonymous | reply 91 | September 23, 2021 2:35 PM |
You're right, R89. But, I understand (what I believe to be), her hesitation. This Republican party is very vindictive and spiteful. Those people will do things because it was done to them. Already many of them are talking about impeaching Biden. For what? Because... Democrats had Trump impeached twice! Forget the fact that he was deserving of impeachment (which is now meaningless in my view). So... the revenge by Republicans would be swift and very hurting.
by Anonymous | reply 92 | September 23, 2021 2:40 PM |
[quote]Which is exactly why the GOP is going to make sure it doesn't happen--it will screw the Dems
Well, you can't blame them. Their strategy and quest for power is working. Democrats had better get very creative and figure out how to "make it happen", though. There will be no excuse that will be acceptable. Again, blaming Republicans ain't gonna cut it. I TOTALLY put the blame for all of this at the feet of Chuck Schumer. He is simply an ineffective as a leader, IMHO. You have to give incentives and makes deals that Manchin, Sinema, and whoever else CANNOT refuse!
But, back to the topic....
Where are the Democrats? EVERY SINGLE ONE of them should be screaming their heads off about the Republican coup which is being attempted that is led by Trump and his minions. Democrats should be leading the campaign to delegitimize the SCOTUS. Notice how Republicans trotted out Uncle Tom Clarence and "the gal" to try and quell the nerves of "the people". Where are the Democrats to call BULL SHIT on this? Where are the Democrats outraged by the light sentences that these "white-boy terrorists" are receiving even though they attempted to overthrow the government? It's not like they don't have the evidence....
by Anonymous | reply 93 | September 23, 2021 3:13 PM |
[quote] Democrats had better get very creative and figure out how to "make it happen", though.
Dems don't have the power to 'make it happen." Just like the GOP wasn't able to repeal Obamacare. Just because they promise something doesn't mean it can actually happen
by Anonymous | reply 94 | September 23, 2021 3:16 PM |
The only way Democrats can "make it happen" is if more Democratic voters get off their asses and vote for Democrats for every office, in every election. Period.
by Anonymous | reply 95 | September 23, 2021 3:39 PM |
If the Dem base gets angry that the Dems can't do what they promised, it will only lead to even worse outcomes under the GOP
by Anonymous | reply 96 | September 23, 2021 3:41 PM |
I get so tired of the constant Dem bashing by armchair pundits who think they know better.
by Anonymous | reply 97 | September 23, 2021 3:42 PM |
[quote]This Republican party is very vindictive and spiteful. Those people will do things because it was done to them.
R92, the Republicans are going to get rid of the filibuster the moment that they retake control of the Senate. Everyone knows that. Except for Sinema and Manchin apparently.
by Anonymous | reply 98 | September 23, 2021 3:43 PM |
Sinema and Manchin know Republicans will blow up the filibuster. They're not idiots, appearances sometimes to the contrary. They just don't care. Their primary motivation is to get reelected, not to advance Democratic causes.
by Anonymous | reply 99 | September 23, 2021 3:47 PM |
[quote]I get so tired of the constant Dem bashing by armchair pundits who think they know better.
Magical thinking isn't the exclusive province of the GQP.
by Anonymous | reply 100 | September 23, 2021 3:51 PM |
I think Manchin is working with McConnell behind the scenes
by Anonymous | reply 101 | September 23, 2021 3:55 PM |
[quote]Their primary motivation is to get reelected, not to advance Democratic causes.
This may be the case with Manchin, but Sinema's support for the filbuster (and her generally "moderate" stance) has cost her popularity (compare her poll numbers in AZ to the other senator, Mark Kelly).
by Anonymous | reply 102 | September 23, 2021 4:08 PM |
[quote]I get so tired of the constant Dem bashing by armchair pundits who think they know better.
What should we do? Give them a cookie? Maybe, the sugar will give them the energy to make them realize the urgency that we are in?
by Anonymous | reply 103 | September 23, 2021 4:10 PM |
R103 gee, I don't know. Maybe start by not turning every thread about political issues dealing with Republicans into a "Dems suck" diatribe that is pretty much concern trolling at this point. It's not helpful to eat our own, and it also doesn't need to be repeated ad infinitum like it has been in this very thread! Once is enough, WE GET IT.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | September 23, 2021 4:48 PM |
"The story has been widely covered on CNN and MSNBC. But the broadcast evening and morning news shows -- which generally have larger audiences, particularly in the evenings -- have ignored it. As of posting time, the memo has not been mentioned on CBS Evening News or CBS Mornings, on NBC’s Nightly News or Today, or on ABC’s World News Tonight or Good Morning America.
In fact, the only national network broadcasts to mention Trump’s coup memo were the late-night variety shows hosted by Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, and Seth Meyers."
by Anonymous | reply 106 | September 23, 2021 6:17 PM |
I realized recently that CBS is pretty right wing.
The major networks are almost all run by Republicans.
I knew Chuck Todd was right-leaning, but I didn't think that Meet the Press was totally right wing until I was reading about how they more often than not don't book ANY Democrats on, just Republicans. And I watched one episode recently where it was being led by this attractive woman who seemed upset that her guest wasn't spending more time bashing Democrats. Looked her up later and she's a former Republican consultant!
by Anonymous | reply 107 | September 23, 2021 9:54 PM |
The ABC, CBS, and NBC morning and evening news broadcasts have all ignored the revelation that one of then-President Donald Trump’s lawyers authored a memo laying out how Trump could effectively pull off a coup.
John Eastman, a member of the conservative legal establishment who worked with Trump’s legal team as the then-president sought to overturn the results of the 2020 election, wrote the document in the days leading up to the January 6 counting of electoral votes. His plan lays out various ways then-Vice President Mike Pence and congressional Republicans could use that event to subvert the election, ensure that Trump remained in office, and terminate the American experiment with democratic rule.
Reporters at The Washington Post and CNN obtained a two-page version of the memo, which CNN published on Monday. On Tuesday, CNN reported that Eastman claimed that document was a “preliminary” version and published a six-page version dated January 3 that the lawyer had provided.
That longer version lays out a series of “alternatives” using the Trump campaign’s false claims of widespread voter fraud and “illegal actions by state and local election officials” during the election as a pretext for Pence and congressional Republicans to throw out electors from as many as seven states that President Joe Biden won. His argument was legally preposterous, but dangerous ambiguities in federal law left the election vulnerable if Republicans were willing to act.
by Anonymous | reply 108 | September 23, 2021 10:31 PM |
TREASON!
by Anonymous | reply 109 | September 23, 2021 10:47 PM |
[quote] Susan Collins levels of concern, [R45]? Or just a normal "concern"?
Susan Collin just won a new six year term starting this year, I am sure her level of concern isn't too high right now.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | September 23, 2021 10:58 PM |
Steve Bannon Admits He Talked with Trump About ‘Killing’ Biden Presidency Ahead of Jan. 6th
Bannon told Trump days before the insurrection that they needed to “kill” the Biden presidency “in the crib,” according to a new book
Steve Bannon, the White House adviser turned accused fraudster turned podcast host, admitted on Wednesday that he conferred with Trump ahead of the January 6th insurrection, with the intention of “kill[ing] the Biden presidency in its crib.”
Bannon’s activity anticipating January 6th has been well-documented, but the extent to which he spoke with Trump ahead of the insurrection was not known until Peril, a new book from Robert Costa and Bob Woodward, was published on Tuesday. Bannon appeared to confirm Costa and Woodward’s reporting during a recording his War Room podcast on Wednesday.
Bannon played clips of journalists discussing the book, which details how Bannon spoke with the then-president about the “crisis” that needed to be rectified on January 6th. “People are going to go, ‘What the fuck is going on here? We’re going to bury Biden on January 6th, fucking bury him,’” Bannon told Trump days before the insurrection, according to Peril. “We’re going to kill it in the crib, kill the Biden presidency in the crib.”
Here’s how Bannon responded on Wednesday:
“Yeah, because his legitimacy. Forty-two percent of the American people — 4-2 — think that Biden did not win the presidency legitimately. It killed itself. … Just let this go with what this illegitimate regime is doing. It killed itself. We told you from the very beginning. Just expose it. Just expose it. Never back down. Never give up. This thing will implode.”
by Anonymous | reply 111 | September 23, 2021 11:22 PM |
[quote]Forty-two percent of the American people — 4-2 — think that Biden did not win the presidency legitimately.
Does Steve Bannon realize that that leaves the sane 58% who know that Biden did legitimately win? And that 58 is more than 42?
by Anonymous | reply 112 | September 23, 2021 11:26 PM |
I'm so sick of hearing about the crazy egomaniac and his cult followers.
by Anonymous | reply 113 | September 23, 2021 11:27 PM |
R111, he sounds quite…drunk.
by Anonymous | reply 114 | September 23, 2021 11:28 PM |
Isn't it actually 42% of republicans that think that? That would mean it is actually a much smaller number of total voters who believe that.
by Anonymous | reply 115 | September 24, 2021 12:01 AM |
Who knows where Bannon got his statistics, R115, but a majority of Republicans do believe Biden did not legitimately win (a minority of the general population, of course, but disturbing).
by Anonymous | reply 116 | September 24, 2021 12:09 AM |
Mark Meadows
Steve Bannon
Dan Scavino
Kashyap Patel
by Anonymous | reply 117 | September 24, 2021 1:15 AM |
Now starts the endless legal wrangling. Meadows et al will try to stall in the courts until the Democrats are out of power. And given the way Trump was successful in stacking the judiciary, they’ll probably succeed.
by Anonymous | reply 118 | September 24, 2021 1:44 AM |
There is an ASTONISHINGLY dark essay about the future in the Washington Post (by Robert Kagan) I highly suggest everyone read. The worst part about it is - he's right. And it's grim. There is a sliver of hope but it depends on the good graces of a tiny handful of Senate Republicans. And this far they have not shown any indication they will make a change.
by Anonymous | reply 119 | September 24, 2021 3:36 AM |
One should open their eyes and accept the FACT that the Dem party is simply an assemblage of varied Special Interest groups. They do not have any core, shared or mutual interest to mount any cohesive and comprehensive attack that the Pukes have. If you aim at nothing, you’ll hit it every time, as the saying goes.
by Anonymous | reply 120 | September 24, 2021 4:40 AM |
[quote]That's right [R78] and the dems have sat back and watched it happen. The repugs can outthink the dems in their sleep
Just who exactly can affect what a red state's fully GOP legislature can do? Chuck Schumer? No, Dems are SOL in many states because both houses of their legislatures are run by Republicans, often with a veto-proof majority. We aren't gonna have a chance in Alabama, but every Democrat in even a somewhat purple state must vote for every Democrat, even a lousy one to prevent the GOP's corruptions against Democracy!
by Anonymous | reply 121 | September 24, 2021 6:02 AM |
[quote]If the Dem base gets angry that the Dems can't do what they promised, it will only lead to even worse outcomes under the GOP
Then we will DESERVE to lose! Dems are intensely jejune about government! They feel because they pried themselves away from their phones and marches and actually voted that all of their dreams will be fulfilled within ninety days, whereas Republicans can lose election after election and still fire themselves up to keep voting in every election for ANY shitty candidate with an R after their name! They need very little seducing to vote and never feel defeated! See the difference?
by Anonymous | reply 122 | September 24, 2021 6:09 AM |
[quote]Bannon told Trump days before the insurrection that they needed to “kill” the Biden presidency “in the crib,” according to a new book
Jesus.
That poll back in June said 32% of Americans believed Biden didn't win but stole the presidency. That's a really concerning number but it's not enough to help the Trump-GOP faction that's trying to end democracy.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | September 24, 2021 10:11 AM |
[quote]One should open their eyes and accept the FACT that the Dem party is simply an assemblage of varied Special Interest groups. They do not have any core, shared or mutual interest to mount any cohesive and comprehensive attack that the Pukes have.
I agree and disagree with this comment. I disagree that Democrats do not have any core, shared, or mutual interest. They do. However, you do have those that will use these shared values just to promote their own interests and go overboard in those pursuits. For example; Let's take these statues. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that these Confederate statues should be dismantled. But, then you have those with a special/selfish agenda that then want to go after the Lincoln, Jefferson, etc memorials/statues to have them dismantled too. Why isn't there someone who would say; "Let's work on getting all of the Confederate statues dismantled before we move to someone else"?
by Anonymous | reply 124 | September 24, 2021 11:53 AM |
There was this really chilling - to me, truly chilling - article in WaPo about what happens next with these people.
Your country may be on the cusp of being well and truly fucked and plunged into authoritarianism under someone as stupid as Donald Trump.
And while, frankly, most of the this board has moved to me to leave you to your fate, the depths to which the American political system is sinking threatens the whole world.
In memory of the fun, intelligent DL that used to be, a bit of advice. If you've got any money in the markets and the Democrats lose control of the House or the Senate next year, get into cash, maybe gold. God knows happens. I hope I'm Mary! I don't think I am.
by Anonymous | reply 125 | September 24, 2021 12:18 PM |
Poor Robert Kagan. His father just died, and he's begun to realize that his decades of working for (neo)conservatism has only abetted a home-grown fascism.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | September 24, 2021 12:33 PM |
The article @r125 is behind a paywall. Can someone post it?
by Anonymous | reply 127 | September 24, 2021 12:43 PM |
So our only hope is for Trump to drop dead. Do your work, Big Macs!
by Anonymous | reply 128 | September 24, 2021 12:47 PM |
by Anonymous | reply 129 | September 24, 2021 12:58 PM |
by Anonymous | reply 130 | September 24, 2021 2:34 PM |
r125 I literally posted that same article at r119. I agree everyone should see it though! (as well as read the thread)
by Anonymous | reply 131 | September 24, 2021 3:58 PM |
R119, sorry I missed it because I posted here right after reading it on WaPo. It should be mandatory.
by Anonymous | reply 132 | September 24, 2021 4:06 PM |
Agreed, it's a powerful article.
by Anonymous | reply 133 | September 24, 2021 5:28 PM |
The White House WILL NOT shield the Trump communications from the January 6th committee.
by Anonymous | reply 134 | September 25, 2021 12:06 AM |
[quote][R125] I literally posted that same article at [R119]. I agree everyone should see it though! (as well as read the thread)
The opinion piece is paywalled.
by Anonymous | reply 135 | September 25, 2021 12:13 AM |
“Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation.”
— James Madison
The United States is heading into its greatest political and constitutional crisis since the Civil War, with a reasonable chance over the next three to four years of incidents of mass violence, a breakdown of federal authority, and the division of the country into warring red and blue enclaves. The warning signs may be obscured by the distractions of politics, the pandemic, the economy and global crises, and by wishful thinking and denial. But about these things there should be no doubt:
First, Donald Trump will be the Republican candidate for president in 2024. The hope and expectation that he would fade in visibility and influence have been delusional. He enjoys mammoth leads in the polls; he is building a massive campaign war chest; and at this moment the Democratic ticket looks vulnerable. Barring health problems, he is running.
Second, Trump and his Republican allies are actively preparing to ensure his victory by whatever means necessary. Trump’s charges of fraud in the 2020 election are now primarily aimed at establishing the predicate to challenge future election results that do not go his way. Some Republican candidates have already begun preparing to declare fraud in 2022, just as Larry Elder tried meekly to do in the California recall contest.
Meanwhile, the amateurish “stop the steal” efforts of 2020 have given way to an organized nationwide campaign to ensure that Trump and his supporters will have the control over state and local election officials that they lacked in 2020. Those recalcitrant Republican state officials who effectively saved the country from calamity by refusing to falsely declare fraud or to “find” more votes for Trump are being systematically removed or hounded from office. Republican legislatures are giving themselves greater control over the election certification process. As of this spring, Republicans have proposed or passed measures in at least 16 states that would shift certain election authorities from the purview of the governor, secretary of state or other executive-branch officers to the legislature. An Arizona bill flatly states that the legislature may “revoke the secretary of state’s issuance or certification of a presidential elector’s certificate of election” by a simple majority vote. Some state legislatures seek to impose criminal penalties on local election officials alleged to have committed “technical infractions,” including obstructing the view of poll watchers.
by Anonymous | reply 136 | September 25, 2021 12:51 AM |
The stage is thus being set for chaos. Imagine weeks of competing mass protests across multiple states as lawmakers from both parties claim victory and charge the other with unconstitutional efforts to take power. Partisans on both sides are likely to be better armed and more willing to inflict harm than they were in 2020. Would governors call out the National Guard? Would President Biden nationalize the Guard and place it under his control, invoke the Insurrection Act, and send troops into Pennsylvania or Texas or Wisconsin to quell violent protests? Deploying federal power in the states would be decried as tyranny. Biden would find himself where other presidents have been — where Andrew Jackson was during the nullification crisis, or where Abraham Lincoln was after the South seceded — navigating without rules or precedents, making his own judgments about what constitutional powers he does and doesn’t have.
Today’s arguments over the filibuster will seem quaint in three years if the American political system enters a crisis for which the Constitution offers no remedy.
Most Americans — and all but a handful of politicians — have refused to take this possibility seriously enough to try to prevent it. As has so often been the case in other countries where fascist leaders arise, their would-be opponents are paralyzed in confusion and amazement at this charismatic authoritarian. They have followed the standard model of appeasement, which always begins with underestimation. The political and intellectual establishments in both parties have been underestimating Trump since he emerged on the scene in 2015. They underestimated the extent of his popularity and the strength of his hold on his followers; they underestimated his ability to take control of the Republican Party; and then they underestimated how far he was willing to go to retain power. The fact that he failed to overturn the 2020 election has reassured many that the American system remains secure, though it easily could have gone the other way — if Biden had not been safely ahead in all four states where the vote was close; if Trump had been more competent and more in control of the decision-makers in his administration, Congress and the states. As it was, Trump came close to bringing off a coup earlier this year. All that prevented it was a handful of state officials with notable courage and integrity, and the reluctance of two attorneys general and a vice president to obey orders they deemed inappropriate.
by Anonymous | reply 137 | September 25, 2021 12:52 AM |
These were not the checks and balances the Framers had in mind when they designed the Constitution, of course, but Trump has exposed the inadequacy of those protections. The Founders did not foresee the Trump phenomenon, in part because they did not foresee national parties. They anticipated the threat of a demagogue, but not of a national cult of personality. They assumed that the new republic’s vast expanse and the historic divisions among the 13 fiercely independent states would pose insuperable barriers to national movements based on party or personality. “Petty” demagogues might sway their own states, where they were known and had influence, but not the whole nation with its diverse populations and divergent interests.
Such checks and balances as the Framers put in place, therefore, depended on the separation of the three branches of government, each of which, they believed, would zealously guard its own power and prerogatives. The Framers did not establish safeguards against the possibility that national-party solidarity would transcend state boundaries because they did not imagine such a thing was possible. Nor did they foresee that members of Congress, and perhaps members of the judicial branch, too, would refuse to check the power of a president from their own party.
In recent decades, however, party loyalty has superseded branch loyalty, and never more so than in the Trump era. As the two Trump impeachments showed, if members of Congress are willing to defend or ignore the president’s actions simply because he is their party leader, then conviction and removal become all but impossible. In such circumstances, the Framers left no other check against usurpation by the executive — except (small-r) republican virtue.
Critics and supporters alike have consistently failed to recognize what a unique figure Trump is in American history. Because his followers share fundamentally conservative views, many see Trump as merely the continuation, and perhaps the logical culmination, of the Reagan Revolution. This is a mistake: Although most Trump supporters are or have become Republicans, they hold a set of beliefs that were not necessarily shared by all Republicans. Some Trump supporters are former Democrats and independents. In fact, the passions that animate the Trump movement are as old as the republic and have found a home in both parties at one time or another.
Suspicion of and hostility toward the federal government; racial hatred and fear; a concern that modern, secular society undermines religion and traditional morality; economic anxiety in an age of rapid technological change; class tensions, with subtle condescension on one side and resentment on the other; distrust of the broader world, especially Europe, and its insidious influence in subverting American freedom — such views and attitudes have been part of the fabric of U.S. politics since the anti-Federalists, the Whiskey Rebellion and Thomas Jefferson. The Democratic Party was the home of white supremacists until they jumped to George Wallace in 1968 and later to the Republicans. Liberals and Democrats in particular need to distinguish between their ongoing battle with Republican policies and the challenge posed by Trump and his followers. One can be fought through the processes of the constitutional system; the other is an assault on the Constitution itself.
by Anonymous | reply 138 | September 25, 2021 12:53 AM |
What makes the Trump movement historically unique is not its passions and paranoias. It is the fact that for millions of Americans, Trump himself is the response to their fears and resentments. This is a stronger bond between leader and followers than anything seen before in U.S. political movements. Although the Founders feared the rise of a king or a Caesar, for two centuries Americans proved relatively immune to unwavering hero-worship of politicians. Their men on horseback — Theodore Roosevelt, Grant, even Washington — were not regarded as infallible. This was true of great populist leaders as well. William Jennings Bryan a century ago was venerated because he advanced certain ideas and policies, but he did not enjoy unquestioning loyalty from his followers. Even Reagan was criticized by conservatives for selling out conservative principles, for deficit spending, for his equivocal stance on abortion, for being “soft” on the Soviet Union.
Trump is different, which is one reason the political system has struggled to understand, much less contain, him. The American liberal worldview tends to search for material and economic explanations for everything, and no doubt a good number of Trump supporters have grounds to complain about their lot in life. But their bond with Trump has little to do with economics or other material concerns. They believe the U.S. government and society have been captured by socialists, minority groups and sexual deviants. They see the Republican Party establishment as corrupt and weak — “losers,” to use Trump’s word, unable to challenge the reigning liberal hegemony. They view Trump as strong and defiant, willing to take on the establishment, Democrats, RINOs, liberal media, antifa, the Squad, Big Tech and the “Mitch McConnell Republicans.” His charismatic leadership has given millions of Americans a feeling of purpose and empowerment, a new sense of identity. While Trump’s critics see him as too narcissistic to be any kind of leader, his supporters admire his unapologetic, militant selfishness. Unlike establishment Republicans, Trump speaks without embarrassment on behalf of an aggrieved segment of Americans, not exclusively White, who feel they have been taking it on the chin for too long. And that is all he needs to do.
There was a time when political analysts wondered what would happen when Trump failed to “deliver” for his constituents. But the most important thing Trump delivers is himself. His egomania is part of his appeal. In his professed victimization by the media and the “elites,” his followers see their own victimization. That is why attacks on Trump by the elites only strengthen his bond with his followers. That is why millions of Trump supporters have even been willing to risk death as part of their show of solidarity: When Trump’s enemies cited his mishandling of the pandemic to discredit him, their answer was to reject the pandemic. One Trump supporter didn’t go to the hospital after developing covid-19 symptoms because he didn’t want to contribute to the liberal case against Trump. “I’m not going to add to the numbers,” he told a reporter.
by Anonymous | reply 139 | September 25, 2021 12:54 AM |
Because the Trump movement is less about policies than about Trump himself, it has undermined the normal role of American political parties, which is to absorb new political and ideological movements into the mainstream. Bryan never became president, but some of his populist policies were adopted by both political parties. Sen. Bernie Sanders’s supporters might not have wanted Biden for president, but having lost the nomination battle they could work on getting Biden to pursue their agenda. Liberal democracy requires acceptance of adverse electoral results, a willingness to countenance the temporary rule of those with whom we disagree. As historian Richard Hofstadter observed, it requires that people “endure error in the interest of social peace.” Part of that willingness stems from the belief that the democratic system makes it possible to work, even in opposition, to correct the ruling party’s errors and overreach. Movements based on ideas and policies can also quickly shift their allegiances. Today, the progressives’ flag-bearer might be Sanders, but tomorrow it could be Sen. Elizabeth Warren or Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or someone else.
For a movement built around a cult of personality, these adjustments are not possible. For Trump supporters, the “error” is that Trump was cheated out of reelection by what he has told them is an oppressive, communist, Democrat regime. While the defeat of a sitting president normally leads to a struggle to claim the party’s mantle, so far no Republican has been able to challenge Trump’s grip on Republican voters: not Sen. Josh Hawley, not Sen. Tom Cotton, not Tucker Carlson, not Gov. Ron DeSantis. It is still all about Trump. The fact that he is not in office means that the United States is “a territory controlled by enemy tribes,” writes one conservative intellectual. The government, as one Trump supporter put it, “is monopolized by a Regime that believes [Trump voters] are beneath representation, and will observe no limits to keep them [from] getting it." If so, the intellectual posits, what choice do they have but to view the government as the enemy and to become “united and armed to take care of themselves as they think best”?
The Trump movement might not have begun as an insurrection, but it became one after its leader claimed he had been cheated out of reelection. For Trump supporters, the events of Jan. 6 were not an embarrassing debacle but a patriotic effort to save the nation, by violent action if necessary. As one 56-year-old Michigan woman explained: “We weren’t there to steal things. We weren’t there to do damage. We were just there to overthrow the government.”
The banal normalcy of the great majority of Trump’s supporters, including those who went to the Capitol on Jan. 6, has befuddled many observers. Although private militia groups and white supremacists played a part in the attack, 90 percent of those arrested or charged had no ties to such groups. The majority were middle-class and middle-aged; 40 percent were business owners or white-collar workers. They came mostly from purple, not red, counties.
Most Trump supporters are good parents, good neighbors and solid members of their communities. Their bigotry, for the most part, is typical white American bigotry, perhaps with an added measure of resentment and a less filtered mode of expression since Trump arrived on the scene. But these are normal people in the sense that they think and act as people have for centuries. They put their trust in family, tribe, religion and race. Although jealous in defense of their own rights and freedoms, they are less concerned about the rights and freedoms of those who are not like them. That, too, is not unusual. What is unnatural is to value the rights of others who are unlike you as much as you value your own.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | September 25, 2021 12:56 AM |
Where does the Republican Party stand in all this? The party gave birth to and nurtured this movement; it bears full responsibility for establishing the conditions in which Trump could capture the loyalty of 90 percent of Republican voters. Republican leaders were more than happy to ride Trump’s coattails if it meant getting paid off with hundreds of conservative court appointments, including three Supreme Court justices; tax cuts; immigration restrictions; and deep reductions in regulations on business. Yet Trump’s triumph also had elements of a hostile takeover. The movement’s passion was for Trump, not the party. GOP primary voters chose Trump over the various flavors of establishment Republicanism (Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio), and after Trump’s election they continued to regard establishment Republicans as enemies. Longtime party heroes like Paul Ryan were cast into oblivion for disparaging Trump. Even staunch supporters such as Jeff Sessions eventually became villains when they would not do as Trump demanded. Those who survived had a difficult balancing act: to use Trump’s appeal to pass the Republican agenda while also controlling Trump’s excesses, which they worried could ultimately threaten the party’s interests.
That plan seemed plausible in 2017. Unlike other insurgent leaders, Trump had not spent time in the political wilderness building a party and surrounding himself with loyalists. He had to choose from an existing pool of Republican officials, who varied in their willingness to do his bidding. The GOP establishment hoped that the presence of “adults” would restrain him, protecting their traditional agenda and, in their view, the country’s interests, from his worst instincts.
This was a miscalculation. Trump’s grip on his supporters left no room for an alternative power center in the party. One by one, the “adults” resigned or were run off. The dissent and contrary opinions that exist in every party — the Northeast moderate Republicans in Reagan’s day; the progressives in today’s Democratic Party — disappeared from Trump’s Republican Party. The only real issue was Trump himself, and on that there could be no dissent. Those who disapproved of Trump could either keep silent or leave.
The takeover extended beyond the level of political leadership. Modern political parties are an ecosystem of interest groups, lobby organizations, job seekers, campaign donors and intellectuals. All have a stake in the party’s viability; all ultimately depend on being roughly aligned with wherever the party is at a given moment; and so all had to make their peace with Trump, too. Conservative publications that once opposed him as unfit for the presidency had to reverse course or lose readership and funding. Pundits had to adjust to the demands of their pro-Trump audiences — and were rewarded handsomely when they did. Donors who had opposed Trump during the primaries fell into line, if only to preserve some influence on the issues that mattered to them. Advocacy organizations that had previously seen their role as holding the Republican Party to certain principles, and thus often dissented from the party leadership, either became advocates for Trump or lost clout.
by Anonymous | reply 141 | September 25, 2021 1:01 AM |
It was no surprise that elected officials feared taking on the Trump movement and that Republican job seekers either kept silent about their views or made show-trial-like apologies for past criticism. Ambition is a powerful antidote to moral qualms. More revealing was the behavior of Republican elder statesmen, former secretaries of state in their 80s or 90s who had no further ambitions for high office and seemingly nothing to lose by speaking out. Despite their known abhorrence of everything Trump stood for, these old lions refused to criticize him. They were unwilling to come out against a Republican Party to which they had devoted their professional lives, even when the party was led by someone they detested. Whatever they thought about Trump, moreover, Republican elders disliked Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and the Democrats more. Again, this is not so unusual. German conservatives accommodated Adolf Hitler in large part because they opposed the socialists more than they opposed the Nazis, who, after all, shared many of their basic prejudices. As for conservative intellectuals, even those who had spent years arguing that Woodrow Wilson was a tyrant because he created the Federal Reserve and supported child labor laws seemed to have no concerns about whether Trump was a would-be despot. They not only came to Trump’s defense but fashioned political doctrines to justify his rule, filling in the wide gaps of his nonexistent ideology with an appeal to “conservative nationalism” and conservative populism. Perhaps American conservatism was never comfortable with the American experiment in liberal democracy, but certainly since Trump took over their party, many conservatives have revealed a hostility to core American beliefs.
All this has left few dissenting voices within the Republican ecosystem. The Republican Party today is a zombie party. Its leaders go through the motions of governing in pursuit of traditional Republican goals, wrestling over infrastructure spending and foreign policy, even as real power in the party has leached away to Trump. From the uneasy and sometimes contentious partnership during Trump’s four years in office, the party’s main if not sole purpose today is as the willing enabler of Trump’s efforts to game the electoral system to ensure his return to power.
With the party firmly under his thumb, Trump is now fighting the Biden administration on separate fronts. One is normal, legitimate political competition, where Republicans criticize Biden’s policies, feed and fight the culture wars, and in general behave like a typical hostile opposition.
The other front is outside the bounds of constitutional and democratic competition and into the realm of illegal or extralegal efforts to undermine the electoral process. The two are intimately related, because the Republican Party has used its institutional power in the political sphere to shield Trump and his followers from the consequences of their illegal and extralegal activities in the lead-up to Jan. 6. Thus, Reps. Kevin McCarthy and Elise Stefanik, in their roles as party leaders, run interference for the Trump movement in the sphere of legitimate politics, while Republicans in lesser positions cheer on the Jan. 6 perpetrators, turning them into martyrs and heroes, and encouraging illegal acts in the future.
This pincer assault has several advantages. Republican politicians and would-be policymakers can play the role of the legitimate opposition. They can rediscover their hawkish internationalist foreign policy (suspended during the Trump years) and their deficit-minded economics (also suspended during the Trump years). They can go on the mainstream Sunday shows and critique the Biden administration on issues such as Afghanistan. They can pretend that Trump is no longer part of the equation. Biden is the president, after all, and his administration is not exactly without faults.
by Anonymous | reply 142 | September 25, 2021 1:02 AM |
Yet whatever the legitimacy of Republican critiques of Biden, there is a fundamental disingenuousness to it all. It is a dodge. Republicans focus on China and critical race theory and avoid any mention of Trump, even as the party works to fix the next election in his favor. The left hand professes to know nothing of what the right hand is doing.
Even Trump opponents play along. Republicans such as Sens. Mitt Romney and Ben Sasse have condemned the events of Jan. 6, criticized Trump and even voted for his impeachment, but in other respects they continue to act as good Republicans and conservatives. On issues such as the filibuster, Romney and others insist on preserving “regular order” and conducting political and legislative business as usual, even though they know that Trump’s lieutenants in their party are working to subvert the next presidential election.
The result is that even these anti-Trump Republicans are enabling the insurrection. Revolutionary movements usually operate outside a society’s power structures. But the Trump movement also enjoys unprecedented influence within those structures. It dominates the coverage on several cable news networks, numerous conservative magazines, hundreds of talk radio stations and all kinds of online platforms. It has access to financing from rich individuals and the Republican National Committee’s donor pool. And, not least, it controls one of the country’s two national parties. All that is reason enough to expect another challenge, for what movement would fail to take advantage of such favorable circumstances to make a play for power?
Today, we are in a time of hope and illusion. The same people who said that Trump wouldn’t try to overturn the last election now say we have nothing to worry about with the next one. Republicans have been playing this game for five years, first pooh-poohing concerns about Trump’s intentions, or about the likelihood of their being realized, and then going silent, or worse, when what they insisted was improbable came to pass. These days, even the anti-Trump media constantly looks for signs that Trump’s influence might be fading and that drastic measures might not be necessary.
The world will look very different in 14 months if, as seems likely, the Republican zombie party wins control of the House. At that point, with the political winds clearly blowing in his favor, Trump is all but certain to announce his candidacy, and social media constraints on his speech are likely to be lifted, since Facebook and Twitter would have a hard time justifying censoring his campaign. With his megaphone back, Trump would once again dominate news coverage, as outlets prove unable to resist covering him around the clock if only for financial reasons.
But this time, Trump would have advantages that he lacked in 2016 and 2020, including more loyal officials in state and local governments; the Republicans in Congress; and the backing of GOP donors, think tanks and journals of opinion. And he will have the Trump movement, including many who are armed and ready to be activated, again. Who is going to stop him then? On its current trajectory, the 2024 Republican Party will make the 2020 Republican Party seem positively defiant.
by Anonymous | reply 143 | September 25, 2021 1:03 AM |
Those who criticize Biden and the Democrats for not doing enough to prevent this disaster are not being fair. There is not much they can do without Republican cooperation, especially if they lose control of either chamber in 2022. It has become fashionable to write off any possibility that a handful of Republicans might rise up to save the day. This preemptive capitulation has certainly served well those Republicans who might otherwise be held to account for their cowardice. How nice for them that everyone has decided to focus fire on Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin.
Yet it is largely upon these Republicans that the fate of the republic rests.
Seven Republican senators voted to convict Trump for inciting an insurrection and attempting to overturn a free and fair election: Richard Burr, Bill Cassidy, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Romney, Sasse and Patrick J. Toomey. It was a brave vote, a display of republican virtue, especially for the five who are not retiring in 2022. All have faced angry backlashes — Romney was booed and called a traitor at the Utah Republican convention; Burr and Cassidy were unanimously censured by their state parties. Yet as much credit as they deserve for taking this stand, it was almost entirely symbolic. When it comes to concrete action that might prevent a debacle in 2024, they have balked.
Specifically, they have refused to work with Democrats to pass legislation limiting state legislatures’ ability to overturn the results of future elections, to ensure that the federal government continues to have some say when states try to limit voting rights, to provide federal protection to state and local election workers who face threats, and in general to make clear to the nation that a bipartisan majority in the Senate opposes the subversion of the popular will. Why?
It can’t be because they think they have a future in a Trump-dominated party. Even if they manage to get reelected, what kind of government would they be serving in? They can’t be under any illusion about what a second Trump term would mean. Trump’s disdain for the rule of law is clear. His exoneration from the charges leveled in his impeachment trials — the only official, legal response to his actions — practically ensures that he would wield power even more aggressively. His experience with unreliable subordinates in his first term is likely to guide personnel decisions in a second. Only total loyalists would serve at the head of the Justice Department, FBI, CIA, National Security Agency and the Pentagon. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs will not be someone likely to place his or her own judgment above that of their civilian commander in chief. Nor would a Republican Senate fail to confirm Trump loyalists. In such a world, with Trump and his lieutenants in charge of all the levers of state power, including its growing capacity for surveillance, opposing Trump would become increasingly risky for Republicans and Democrats alike. A Trump victory is likely to mean at least the temporary suspension of American democracy as we have known it.
by Anonymous | reply 144 | September 25, 2021 1:05 AM |
We are already in a constitutional crisis. The destruction of democracy might not come until November 2024, but critical steps in that direction are happening now. In a little more than a year, it may become impossible to pass legislation to protect the electoral process in 2024. Now it is impossible only because anti-Trump Republicans, and even some Democrats, refuse to tinker with the filibuster. It is impossible because, despite all that has happened, some people still wish to be good Republicans even as they oppose Trump. These decisions will not wear well as the nation tumbles into full-blown crisis.
It is not impossible for politicians to make such a leap. The Republican Party itself was formed in the 1850s by politicians who abandoned their previous party — former Whigs, former Democrats and former members of the Liberty and Free Soil parties. While Whig and Democratic party stalwarts such as Henry Clay and Stephen Douglas juggled and compromised, doing their best to ensure that the issue of slavery did not destroy their great parties, others decided that the parties had become an obstacle to justice and a threat to the nation’s continued viability.
Romney & Co. don’t have to abandon their party. They can fashion themselves as Constitutional Republicans who, in the present emergency, are willing to form a national unity coalition in the Senate for the sole purpose of saving the republic. Their cooperation with Democrats could be strictly limited to matters relating to the Constitution and elections. Or they might strive for a temporary governing consensus on a host of critical issues: government spending, defense, immigration and even the persistent covid-19 pandemic, effectively setting aside the usual battles to focus on the more vital and immediate need to preserve the United States.
It takes two, of course, to form a national unity coalition, and Democrats can make it harder or easier for anti-Trump Republicans to join. Some profess to see no distinction between the threat posed by Trump and the threat posed by the GOP. They prefer to use Trump as a weapon in the ongoing political battle, and not only as a way of discrediting and defeating today’s Republican Party but to paint all GOP policies for the past 30 years as nothing more than precursors to Trumpism. Although today’s Trump-controlled Republican Party does need to be fought and defeated, this kind of opportunistic partisanship and conspiracy-mongering, in addition to being bad history, is no cure for what ails the nation.
Senate Democrats were wise to cut down their once-massive voting rights wish list and get behind the smaller compromise measure unveiled last week by Manchin and Sen. Amy Klobuchar. But they have yet to attract any votes from their Republican colleagues for the measure. Heading into the next election, it is vital to protect election workers, same-day registration and early voting. It will also still be necessary to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, which directly addresses the state legislatures’ electoral power grab. Other battles — such as making Election Day a federal holiday and banning partisan gerrymandering — might better be postponed. Efforts to prevent a debacle in 2024 cannot. Democrats need to give anti-Trump Republicans a chance to do the right thing.
One wonders whether modern American politicians, in either party, have it in them to make such bold moves, whether they have the insight to see where events are going and the courage to do whatever is necessary to save the democratic system. If that means political suicide for this handful of Republicans, wouldn’t it be better to go out fighting for democracy than to slink off quietly into the night?
by Anonymous | reply 145 | September 25, 2021 1:07 AM |
Thank you, Loyal DL lesbian with WAPO subscription!
by Anonymous | reply 146 | September 25, 2021 1:09 AM |
You're more than welcome, R146. Hell, I just read it myself -- it was so long, I had only read the first couple of paragraphs in the WAPO. Posting it on DL forced me to read the whole thing.
Now I'm glad I did.
by Anonymous | reply 147 | September 25, 2021 1:33 AM |
Thanks R147.
~R135
by Anonymous | reply 148 | September 25, 2021 1:48 AM |
Bump for those who want to read the opinion piece.
by Anonymous | reply 149 | September 25, 2021 3:20 PM |
[quote] Okay, Mr. "NO STRATEGY DEMS" at [[R80]], you've made you point and then some; you're starting to sound like a concern troll.
Fuck you. The democrats are pussies.
The republicans find a way around everything. But of course, they know how to come up with long term plans. No matter what, the dems are always playing catch up to something the repugs have thrown at them
The insurrection happened. Senators & Congress people supported it. They still have their jobs. Had the situation been reversed, the dems sitting in cells at Guantanamo Bay prison. That's because the repugs are smart enough to use EVERY single thing they can to get rid of their opponents. The dems refuse to do anything.
The "let's not have any supreme court strategy" dems sat around while trump installed 3 people on the supreme court. Good Bye Roe v Wade. Sorry ladies, the dems couldn't be bothered with your rights. They really just care about you when it's time to vote
And even when trump got Covid and gleefully infected his wife, 2 of his stupid children and half of his administration, they all took a drug created using the stem cells from an abortion, you didn't hear a SINGLE FUCKING WORD ABOUT IT FROM THE DUMB, WEAK dems. Had Obama taken a drug like that, all the repugs would be shouting from the rooftops that he was a BABY KILLER. The dems had the perfect opportunity to smear the dems and possibly make people think twice about wanting to get rid of abortion rights, but they just couldn't be fucking bothered to use it against the repugs. And trump had put a ban on research with stem cells in the beginning of his presidency. The dems refused to call him a hypocrite
Biden quietly reversed that ban. He should have had a full court press and said, "I'm ending that ban because that research helped save the lives of donald trump, melanie trump, two of his sons, ben carson, chris christie, rudy giuliani and who knows how many other so called "pro-life republicans"? He didn't say a word
And now that that drug (Regeneron) is used all over the country (and paid for by the taxpayers) to treat Covid in antivaxxers, not one word from the dems. Roe v Wade is going to the Supreme Court probably next year, and all these pro-lifers are taking this drug and the dumb, lazy dems can't be bothered to say ONE SINGLE FUCKING WORD about it. Would it kill them to say, "hey, you denied science, you got Covid and your life was saved by a drug created using the stem cells from an abortion"
And after abortion is banned, they're coming for gay rights
by Anonymous | reply 150 | September 28, 2021 1:07 AM |
Yes R149. I read it
It's disgusting. But Biden and the dems can't be bothered. They know this plan right now and the dems won't do a thing to prevent them from using it in the next election
Nixon was pardoned after Watergate
Reagan felt no repercussions from Iran-Contra
GHWB got away with pardoning Reagan's people
GWB lied about the Iraq war and got away with it
Trump was behind the Insurrection and even had some of the planners over to the White House the day before
and Clinton was impeached for a blow job
by Anonymous | reply 151 | September 28, 2021 1:36 AM |
This is the memo from hell
by Anonymous | reply 152 | September 28, 2021 1:39 AM |
[quote]Fuck you. The democrats are pussies.
I cannot fully articulate my depth of disappointment because of the Dems inability to get the George Floyd bill to the finish line--let alone over it. I became angry when I watched Cory Booker being interviewed about the issue and his finger pointing at the Republicans. Okay... I got it. But, what's the next step? What's plan "B"? Or, Plan "C"?
There is no plan. It's dead.
However, I REALLY became angry and hit full tilt when Karen Bass (with all smiles) announced her Mayoral run for Los Angeles! WHAT? That's it? Nothing more about Police Reform? Just like that... it's over and done. A few 5 minute interviews for the evening news of that day and that's it? UNBELIEVABLE! Such an important moment and milestone was missed for this nation. Well... I'm done with them. Call me Mary or whatever else, but right at this moment, I'm simply not inclined to vote at all. I'm contributing no more money. Nope. Let what will happen just happen. NOW! If I am feeling this way know that there are THOUSOUNDS UPON THOUSANDS of others who feel the same way too. This is the damage that the Democrats have brought upon themselves. I've sent letters and made phone calls to the offices of Bass, Booker, and that good-for-nothing Chuck Schumer, expressing my sentiments. LOL! What good will it do? That was simply a wasted effort.
by Anonymous | reply 153 | September 28, 2021 1:57 AM |
by Anonymous | reply 154 | September 28, 2021 2:18 AM |
How, r153? We are holding on to the Senate by a thread. I mean really—how? What would your strategy be? You know you can’t count on one vote from the other side, let alone the 10 you need. So what to you do? What do you offer?
by Anonymous | reply 155 | September 28, 2021 2:48 AM |
R155 magical thinking. If only the Democrats tried harder, somehow!
I actually kinda hope the Dems let the Republicans run the country into the ground with the debt default. Let the billionaires lose tons of money and see what they do to get the Republicans to stop dicking around. THAT would impact the stock market. Let the "oh we don't care" bankers have a good proper freakout and maybe they will push their paid for politicians to not do this shit.
Mitch is counting on the Dems to do the responsible thing. He gets to throw a wrench in the works and pretend he's doing something other than messing up the United States. The Republicans have no plan other than to destroy what others have done - deregulation and tax cuts.
I haven't seen a good writeup on what exactly will happen if the government defaults on the debt, other than "divers alarums" which tells me nothing.
by Anonymous | reply 156 | September 28, 2021 3:03 AM |
[quote]How, [R153]? We are holding on to the Senate by a thread.
Well, they'll only have to concern themselves about that for a few more months then after that there will be no more worries.
Look R155, I couldn't care less about what they have or they don't have. Speaking only for myself, Democrats in Congress has shown no urgency in getting done those things that the people overwhelmingly want. I'm sick of them just referring to polls, a television interview here or there--if they have time, etc. Yep, the people elected them to do the people's work but obviously they need some help. Why not beg the people for that help? Remember how successful the "Resist" movement was? Lead rallies. Storm Manchin's & Sinema's offices. Do what Republicans do and weaponize primaries. On and on... Get out of their FUCKING offices (where they obviously are not doing anything anyway) and come down to the people's levels to organize, protest, and exert pressure. DO SOMETHING!
by Anonymous | reply 157 | September 28, 2021 3:21 AM |
R157 you seem to be frustrated and are doing what the majority of Democrats do, which is to attack the party. Maybe focus your ire on the Republicans and the mainstream media that keeps "both sides"ing this whole debacle. Start there.
by Anonymous | reply 158 | September 28, 2021 3:37 AM |
[quote] I became angry when I watched Cory Booker being interviewed about the issue and his finger pointing at the Republicans. Okay... I got it. But, what's the next step? What's plan "B"? Or, Plan "C"? There is no plan. It's dead.
Old Joe has already given up on the voting rights act. His plan is to "out organize the voter suppression laws". He wants to cross his fingers and hope voter turn out is larger than ever.
To quote this guy, "We're at a crossroads, we need assistance IMMEDIATELY. If he's incapable, he needs to step aside"
Even John Oliver called him out and says, "what the fuck are you talking about"? How are you not understanding this. I think I queued this up to start around 16.3 minute mark
These kinds of feelings will make people stay at home and not bother voting
by Anonymous | reply 159 | September 28, 2021 4:02 AM |
[quote] We are holding on to the Senate by a thread. I mean really—how? What would your strategy be? You know you can’t count on one vote from the other side, let alone the 10 you need. So what to you do? What do you offer?
I'm not a lawyer or a politician, but I get shit done at my job and I get creative with the rules when I need to. I expect the lazy dems to do the same. Did you read the Link Op posted? Republicans can think outside the box. THEY HAVE A PLAN FOR EVERYTHING. They rolled those voter suppression laws out and got them passed in weeks.
Trump did all kinds of shit and the repugs reply was, "there's no law against it'. And the dems just accepted it.
The first things the dems should have done when they got into office and still had a lot of goodwill from a few republicans is enacted some laws to prevent a lot of what trump did
by Anonymous | reply 160 | September 28, 2021 4:12 AM |
Depressing! Can’t even watch them news because the DEMS (more like DIMS) are like watching your favorite football team constantly fumbling the ball.
CIVIL WAR!!? We’d be lucky to even muster the energy, the ATP to fuel our body cells, to come close that. I do not like to say bad things about Biden, but he looks like he should take a nap (perhaps a long one?) However, I’m sure the Pukes would find a way to install Dump if that should ever happen.
Epic Fail.
by Anonymous | reply 161 | September 28, 2021 5:22 AM |
Watching [italic]Years and Years[/italic] on HBO and preparing for the worst
by Anonymous | reply 162 | September 28, 2021 5:27 AM |
Lots of right wing trolls on this thread pretending to be Dems. Just saying. Lots of complaining about how “dim” they are with no real ideas on how to solve the Senate. And yes, the “dims” are not like the repigs—do you want them to be? Isn’t that why you’re not repigs? Because of the totally unethical way they do business?
The only way to solve the problem is local politics. It all stems from the root. Too many local and state governments are run by repigs. This is a grass roots effort that will take years to fix. We might all be gone by then.
Queue the nasty comebacks claiming I’m the Boris.
by Anonymous | reply 163 | September 28, 2021 1:03 PM |
I agree with you, R163, but I've also been frustrated for a long time with the Democrats for focusing so much on national races and effectively ceding local boards and state governments to Republicans—who then rig the system for themselves, so that it's a feedback loop of uphill battling for the Democrats with every new election. I live in a very blue area with a vital Democratic party so it's not an issue here, but I wish the Democrats would throw themselves as a party behind a "50 state strategy" or similar.
by Anonymous | reply 164 | September 28, 2021 1:43 PM |
R163....No, youre not Boris, but you are delusional if you cant recognize the problems. The kicker...Democrats are just as culpable as Republicans for the state of our Democracy and politics. Example...Unions. Democrats praise and encourage Unions, but in 1947 they joined Republicans to systematically destroy them...starting with Taft-Hartley.It did not matter that the Unions are what gave FDR the POWER to tax the rich, and the Democrats the POWER to effect actual systematic change regarding income inequality. The republicans went on the attack to dismantle the New Deal...and Democrats joined in out of fear of appearing anti-American because of Republican messaging.
by Anonymous | reply 165 | September 28, 2021 2:00 PM |
[quote]Queue the nasty comebacks claiming I’m the Boris.
I don't think that you are a "Boris", R163. But, in the same vein, do not flippantly dismiss my frustrations, disappointments, pisstivity, or whatever you want to call it! I'm not a right-wing troll either. At this moment, I am just SO angry with Democrats and barely voice my frustration and disappointment, I just really want to scream! Think of Sally Field at the funeral scene in "Steel Magnolias" and you will have an idea of where I am. I don't want to hear this. I don't want to hear that. I WANT RESULTS!
But, let me try to calm down and move to a better place. That better place is letting the Republicans have it and do with as they want. Apparently, people haven't suffered enough--clearly not the Democrats, and they need to suffer some more. Me? I'm basically done. I'm on the side that I have one foot in the grave and the other one isn't too far behind. Women's health, same-sex marriage, voting rights, universal healthcare, on and on. YOU deal with it! I'm going to yoga class.
by Anonymous | reply 166 | September 28, 2021 2:00 PM |
Again, I'm so sick of threads like these where a handful of posters spend an exceptional amount of posts bashing the Democrats.
We get it - you're frustrated, concern trolling, or a bot. Enough! It's just incessant complaining at this point.
The issue is the Republicans, not the Democrats. The Democrats are unique in that they attack their own when things don't go as planned.
by Anonymous | reply 167 | September 28, 2021 2:56 PM |
R165 you are clueless or a disengenuous concern troll if you are using a 1945 decision - and the unique circumstances of the time - as any sort of a comparison to the parties today. They are not the same parties as 1945, which if you knew anything else about history - you would know.
by Anonymous | reply 168 | September 28, 2021 3:00 PM |
I agree r168. R165 is citing something from MORE THAN 70 YEARS AGO. How about something from this century at least.
by Anonymous | reply 169 | September 28, 2021 3:05 PM |
Not to mention it was before the Civil Rights era when many of fhe southern Democrats became Republicans (and some even started their own political party, before ending up in the Republican party). And 1945 was when the WW2 ended, which is kind of a unique situation.
Just a completely clueless statement.
by Anonymous | reply 170 | September 28, 2021 3:15 PM |
[quote]Think of Sally Field at the funeral scene in "Steel Magnolias" and you will have an idea of where I am.
Wherever you are, we're definitely on DataLounge.
by Anonymous | reply 171 | September 28, 2021 3:27 PM |
If you think that just because it was 70 years ago that "it was a different time", you are part of the problem as to why NOTHING has changed in 70 years...AND IN FACT HAS GOTTEN WORSE. There is a direct parallel between decline in Unions, the shrinking middle class, decreased wages and loss of jobs to the tax cuts for the rich. Each one of you need to reexamine OUR HISTORY and learn something. The Capitalists, with the help of Republicans and a boost from Democrats have systematically destroyed our system. Until you realize that both parties dont work for US, THE MAJORITY, and instead for the Capitalists, then you have not been paying attention. AT ALL. Until we deal with that denial, it will continue to get worse until we become some sci-fi post apocalyptic society with the haves living in Ivory towers and the rest of us in slums.
by Anonymous | reply 172 | September 28, 2021 3:41 PM |
To add to r172....I hope you realize that the "coalition" that made The New deal possible...and gave us things like Social Security, Unemployment Insurance and a lot of othe thing that benefitted US, was comprised of COMMUNISTS< SOCIALISTS AND LABOR UNIONS. Yes, thats right...Communists and Socialists. Thats why we had the Communist witch hunts in the 50s, led by Joe McCarthy, and why, even today the Republicans refer to everything as SOCIALIST or SOCIALISM. Its part of a concerted effort (and Democrats participate too) to vilify EVERYTHING that benefitted the working class which results in TAXING THE RICH. History is a wonderful lesson...if you pay attention to it.
by Anonymous | reply 173 | September 28, 2021 3:48 PM |
Also to add to r172...Taft-Hartly, passed in 1947, IS STILL IN EFFECT TODAY and has beed more than detrimental to unionization...creating a steady decline to the present day (from36% to 6%) and it led to Right to Work States and No Collective Bargaining laws.
by Anonymous | reply 174 | September 28, 2021 3:56 PM |
I too am angry at the Democrats. Why play fair when the other side doesn't? To show they are decent? No one cares. And when they lose the House and the Senate in '22, which I fully expect them to do, they will be blamed for not doing enough. And yet... McCarthy as Speaker will do NOTHING to govern. He'll be too busy invoking articles of impeachment against Biden and Harris (doesn't matter if there is no grounds for impeachment - again, no one cares), and will help continue to destroy whatever democracy is left.
As for Moscow Mitch, who is running circles around Schumer (a very weak Majority leader), he'll block the SCOTUS nomination until '24 (one or two Justices will either retire or pass away), and then the country will truly be screwed, especially if you-know-who wins in '24 (or loses but is actually declared the winner by the House).
Dark times lie ahead. And that's scary as shit!
by Anonymous | reply 175 | September 28, 2021 4:04 PM |
R172, you don’t get it. It will ALWAYS be a battle. It will ALWAYS be good vs. evil. You will NEVER fix it. Just keep fighting the good fight and stop complaining. Work on what you can do as a person to make this country better. And giving up is not an option. Unless you choose to check out. Then, you have no right complaining.
by Anonymous | reply 176 | September 28, 2021 4:08 PM |
[quote]Again, I'm so sick of threads like these where a handful of posters spend an exceptional amount of posts bashing the Democrats. The issue is the Republicans, not the Democrats.
Honey-Lamb, the Republicans are wining. The Democrats are not. The Republicans can get their agenda through. But, the Democrats can not. A Republican president basically gets everyone in his cabinet and most of the Judges that he/she will nominate. But, a Democrat president most assuredly will not. So, you say that the issue are the Republicans? Okay....
by Anonymous | reply 177 | September 28, 2021 5:47 PM |
[quote] I do not like to say bad things about Biden, but he looks like he should take a nap (perhaps a long one?)
"I don't like to say bad things about Biden but I wish he was dead."
There's a reason we didn't get 400,000 "The DIMocrats SUCK!" replies on political threads for the last few days, and you all know what it is.
by Anonymous | reply 178 | September 28, 2021 5:53 PM |
R177, both sides have difficulty getting stuff through. The filibuster has made it very difficult to get proactive stuff passed. Btw, most of Dump’s horrible executive orders have been reversed, and the Biden administration is replacing judges at a record pace.
by Anonymous | reply 179 | September 28, 2021 5:59 PM |
[quote]Biden administration is replacing judges at a record pace.
Well... didn't Trump and Mitch only leave him 8-10 open slots to fill? That shouldn't be hard to do!
by Anonymous | reply 180 | September 28, 2021 6:11 PM |
Judges retire all the time, r180.
by Anonymous | reply 181 | September 28, 2021 6:43 PM |
R176....No, YOU dont get it. It wasnt always the way it is today. As I said before...LEARN YOUR HISTORY. Until you do, you will keep plodding ahead with nothing getting accomplished.
by Anonymous | reply 182 | September 28, 2021 8:23 PM |
We need to go back to the original penalty for treason in the US.
by Anonymous | reply 183 | September 28, 2021 8:25 PM |
R176, ummm…. ok. Whatever. I do know there’s one constant in history and you prove the case.
by Anonymous | reply 184 | September 28, 2021 8:26 PM |
[quote] Well... didn't Trump and Mitch only leave him 8-10 open slots to fill?
That was because Clinton, Obama, and a few Bush judges held off on retiring until after Cheatolini was out of office.
by Anonymous | reply 185 | September 28, 2021 9:20 PM |
In light of the discussion over the past day, this is an interesting article admonishing Democrats to pay attention to the Virginia Governor’s race — or risk allowing a tRump wannabe into the Governor’s mansion.
by Anonymous | reply 186 | September 28, 2021 10:04 PM |
The Democrats dont care. Example...I am running for the U.S. Senate. I was literally told by the DNC that a career politician who is running has already been declared the anointed one...and unless I come into the race with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, not to bother. Does that sound like they give a shit about the majority of people ?
by Anonymous | reply 187 | September 28, 2021 10:30 PM |
Well, I for one think that there needs to be many more Democratic primary challenges, R187. Are you running against Cory Booker? I'll send you a few dollars (and, that's after I wrote earlier that I would not be contributing). These Democrats need to wake up and had better start getting stuff done. Many of them need to simply be voted out of office.
by Anonymous | reply 188 | September 28, 2021 10:39 PM |
R172 I notice how you totally ignored the fact that the party compositions are totally different from now versus what they were in 1947, and instead focused exclusively on the "it's been 70 years" comment.
by Anonymous | reply 189 | September 29, 2021 4:07 AM |
[quote]The only way to solve the problem is local politics. It all stems from the root. Too many local and state governments are run by repigs. This is a grass roots effort that will take years to fix. We might all be gone by then.
fuck off you idiot. It sickens some of us that we're seeing the dumb, lazy ass democrats do absolutely nothing. The dems couldn't organize lunch. They had 4 fucking year to organize.
They lost more at state levels when Obama was president than ever before. And they don't have a single plan for anything at the state level. They're too lazy to appoint judges. Obama was a failure with the judges. Couldn't be bothered. Donald trump wasn't lazy. He appointed judges left and right. He understood how to strategize. The dumb dems couldn't be bothered to have a supreme court strategy for the past 40 yrs and Roe will be overturned within a year
And now when the dems have to constantly go to court to fight all the restrictive laws that the repugs put in place at all levels of the judicial branch, more and more trump judges will be deciding these cases
You also believe in the "let's just cross our fingers and hope the republicans finally do the right thing" is the best approach to governing. Of course, that's failed for the past 40 years
by Anonymous | reply 190 | September 29, 2021 4:15 AM |
R177 the Republicans aren't "winning". They don't hold the Presidency, the House of Representatives, or the Senate currently.
It's easy to be a Republican now. You don't have to have a platform or an agenda beyond damaging the Democrats much as possible. They don't want government to work.
The Democrats do, for the most part, and are fighting to DO things instead of simply obstruct. It's a lot harder and they can't "do what the Republicans do" to get their way, because the Republicans aren't governing in good faith about anything nowadays.
So it's an uphill climb when you have one of the only two parties that matter, totally taken over by an ever-accelerating destructive bent, and they are ONLY interested in power, and consolidating that power.
Try to focus less on the sausage as it's being made, you'll be more sane. And it will save the rest of us from hearing the INCESSANT WHINING and CONCERN TROLLING some of you are doing. I'm starting to think you aren't even actual Democrats.
It's been nice having the board in lockdown mode the last week because there's far less obvious troll posts, but what we are left with is suspicious still.
by Anonymous | reply 191 | September 29, 2021 4:18 AM |
R190 that poster was correct, and you are NOT a Democrat. You're either a Bernie Bro / Yang Libertarian or an outright Republican (or worse, one of the "I don't belong to any party, but just yesterday I was reading on Breitbart..." delusional tools), and your attitude is wrong and fucking toxic. Delete yourself.
by Anonymous | reply 192 | September 29, 2021 4:21 AM |
[quote] The Democrats do, for the most part, and are fighting to DO things
[quote] your attitude is wrong and fucking toxic
Having a good "cross your fingers & hope for the best" attitude has really, REALLY allowed the dems to get a lot done over the past 21 years. It allowed bush to start 2 wars, stalled 7 years of Obama's presidency and allowed trump to almost ruin democracy. It will allow Desantis and Hawley to win the next presidential election.
You don't have to be a psychic to know, the republicans will never do the right thing, IT'S TIME TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. The fact that you can't realize this, proves you're just a democratic version of a trumper. That's pathetic
The dems not getting anything done is going to cause the hate in this country to fester. Calling out republicans who won't get vaccinated, but allowing half the border, who have Covid into the country is a big problem. It shows either Biden doesn't care about Covid or he doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Tripling down on the lie that border officials whipped the border criminals is VILE. It's pure trump
Can you imagine being those border officials?
by Anonymous | reply 193 | September 29, 2021 9:56 AM |
The Repbublicans are the Democratic Party's greatest weapon. It's because of the Republicans heinous actions that the voters, especially minority voters, are all fired up to vote no matter how many times the Republicans shout "We do everything we can for your vote not to count!".
Voter fatigue can't set in when voters are being told that they are not welcome. It just makes them want to vote even more. And if some Deplorable tries to erase their votes, because he doesn't like the outcome, he will get his ass handed to him. If SCOTUS is turning on the US citizens' right to vote, there's no excuse for citizens to stay quiet and obedient. And Joe Biden better not try to protect the Republicans from what's coming to them in that situation.
by Anonymous | reply 194 | September 29, 2021 10:27 AM |
If you are a hard Dem, then officially switch to Independent and vote for the weaker Puke in the primaries. That’s what I did and it works like a charm. If more hard Dems would claim sorta noncommittal than we can kill off the likes of Manchin and Sinema - whom we already know are not true Dems.
Also, dedicate yourself to hypocrisy, a hard Dem can always claim (R) be anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-“right wing cause”. Win the Republican primary, get elected and vote against the Rs on just a very small, but important key Puke issues.
Easy peasy. This is not rocket science, guys(gals).
by Anonymous | reply 195 | September 29, 2021 10:33 AM |
[quote]It's because of the Republicans heinous actions that the voters, especially minority voters, are all fired up to vote
I don't know about that. Minorities (Black folk) are UPSET that this George Floyd bill did not get anywhere. I told you that I was NOT the only one! Roland Martin (Roland Martin-Unfiltered) had a discussion about it on his streamed broadcast. Granted, it's a limited environment to draw conclusions from but somebody--particularly Democrats might want to take notice. Roland TORE into Tim Scott! But, he wasn't finished. He TORE into Corey Booker too. Somehow, Kim Bass missed his tirade. What is pertinent here is not so much the broadcast itself but the comments made by viewers. While there was anger about Tim Scott many of the posters were just as, if not even more angry with Corey Booker. You call it just "sausage making", R191. Uh-Huh... Okay...
by Anonymous | reply 196 | September 29, 2021 10:51 AM |
[quote]I'm starting to think you aren't even actual Democrats.
Well, I'm not. I'm independent. I was a registered Republican until Obama ran in 2008 and I saw the blatant racism of the Republican party. However, I've always voted for who I thought would be the best person for the job and the country regardless of party.
by Anonymous | reply 197 | September 29, 2021 10:59 AM |
R190, and his multiple personalities, is tiresome. He has no solutions, only spite. He’s here to sow dissension, he’s no Dem. so fuck off yourself you idiot. You think we can’t see who you are?
by Anonymous | reply 198 | September 29, 2021 12:40 PM |
[quote] They're too lazy to appoint judges. Obama was a failure with the judges. Couldn't be bothered.
🙄
That is a completely inaccurate characterization of what occurred. I know the DOJ lawyers who worked on the judicial nominations process during the Obama years. They, and their counterparts at the WH, knew what the stakes were and pushed through nominations as quickly as possible. The problem was the Repukes in the Senate who decided that it was in their interests to bottle-up the process and they slowed confirmations to a snail’s pace.
From the Politico article:
[quote] Senate Democrats infuriated Republicans in November 2013 by scrapping the 60-vote filibuster rule for judicial nominations — a change Obama and then-Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) used to usher through 96 judicial nominations. [bold] That gush has slowed to a trickle since Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) became majority leader in January. [/bold]
A “gush” of nominations hardly supports the inaccuracy that President Obama “couldn’t be bothered.” 🙄
by Anonymous | reply 199 | September 29, 2021 1:28 PM |
[quote]It's been nice having the board in lockdown mode the last week because there's far less obvious troll posts, but what we are left with is suspicious still.
IMHO, I think it's sad. I know Muriel has to do whatever she has to do and I really don't know about the trolls--who is a troll and who isn't... I don't know. Anyway, I think that it's sad that intelligent discussion cannot be had about this topic. Everyone wants to stay in their own cocooned bubble, I guess. R191, you post that I am one of those with the INCESSANT WHINING and CONCERN TROLLING. Well... maybe, I am. I am what I am and I feel what I feel. AND, where I am at right now AS FAR AS EMOTIONS (shout out to R171) are frustration, disappointment, that is now moving to anger. But, oh well...
by Anonymous | reply 200 | September 29, 2021 1:28 PM |
[quote]They're too lazy to appoint judges. Obama was a failure with the judges. Couldn't be bothered.
No. Nope. Nuh-Huh! Whoever posted this is making an outright lie! Republicans aggressively stalled and blocked Obama Judge nominations along with other positions. Conveniently, you forget that Harry Reid had no other choice but to enact the nuclear option in order to start getting nominations through because of Mitch McConnell's/Republicans strategy.
by Anonymous | reply 201 | September 29, 2021 1:33 PM |
R200, we could also do without your incessant capitalizing of everything. And you are—to put it in your own words—an INCESSANT, WHINING and CONCERN TROLL.
No one is in a bubble. We know what the stakes are.
by Anonymous | reply 202 | September 29, 2021 2:30 PM |
^It was a copy/paste, shugah. More than likely it came from one of your very own posts. Are you, R191?
by Anonymous | reply 203 | September 29, 2021 2:43 PM |
[quote]It sickens some of us that we're seeing the dumb, lazy ass democrats do absolutely nothing.
Blame the Americans who support Democratic policies but can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and vote. If they did, Democratic politicians would have the numbers they need to steamroll Republicans.
by Anonymous | reply 204 | September 29, 2021 3:21 PM |
No, r204. Stop blaming the victims. The Republicans are the criminals, here.
I get where you’re going with the blame thing, yet it’s misdirected.
by Anonymous | reply 205 | September 29, 2021 3:25 PM |
R189....thats where you are off track. The composition of the parties HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Ask yourself....why do our elected officials...BOTH PARTIES... work for the interests of the Capitalists instead of for the MAJORITY...the very people who vote them into office ?
by Anonymous | reply 206 | September 29, 2021 4:09 PM |
“Trump’s 6 Point Plan”
Like Trump can think of 6 things, let alone have a plan for them.
by Anonymous | reply 207 | September 29, 2021 4:12 PM |
R195 you should probably be aware that if you aren't a registered party member you can't vote in most party primaries. So your strategy is lacking. It's better to be registered in a party because you can influence the primaries.
by Anonymous | reply 208 | September 29, 2021 4:15 PM |
R206 said exactly like a Bernie Bro or Yang Libertarian. And yes, the composition does have a great deal to do with it. You have a very simplistic, almost childlike viewpoint of politics and your knowledge of history is lacking.
by Anonymous | reply 209 | September 29, 2021 4:16 PM |
r209....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You are absolutely clueless.
by Anonymous | reply 210 | September 29, 2021 4:18 PM |
R210 good comeback, you triggered snatch dripping! You really told me!
by Anonymous | reply 211 | September 29, 2021 4:20 PM |
R200 you complain that the Dems can't work together and do things against the devil Republicans, yet you spend all of your time attacking Democrats and complaining that we aren't acting like Republicans. You aren't helping the problem.
Currently, we have Moderate Democrats working against Progressive Democrats. Neither camp wants to give, but the Moderates actually have all the power, because they prefer the status quo. As a result the Progressives may end up with nothing. That is similar to the Republicans, who would rather do nothing than something in almost any case except deregulation and bankrupting the government by reducing corporate taxes.
The infighting is part of the party because we haven't spent the past thirty years primary-ing and chasing out moderates like the Republicans have. We also don't have a full-on national "news" organization and major cable presence dedicated to electing Democrats (even more than Fox because Newsmax is on cable packages now). We don't have the mainstream press, of which the vast majority, including the paper of record the NYT, lazily reporting things as "both sides as usual".
There's a lot of issues, but attacking Democrats for not pulling out a magic wand and fixing all of them is not going to help.
by Anonymous | reply 212 | September 29, 2021 4:29 PM |
r211...go back to your delusional cocoon....and when you wake up and wonder why your job opportunities are fewer, your wages are lower, youre buried in debt and your communities continue to crumble and you realize just how shitty you actually have it, consider your own ignorance as part of the reason.
by Anonymous | reply 213 | September 29, 2021 4:35 PM |
^ Dumplin', as I posted earlier on this thread, " I'm basically done. I'm on the side that I have one foot in the grave and the other one isn't too far behind. Women's health, same-sex marriage, voting rights, universal healthcare, on and on. YOU deal with it! I'm going to yoga class." Namaste, honey.
by Anonymous | reply 214 | September 29, 2021 5:27 PM |
R216 they didn't contradict him. They made suggestions and the ultimate issue was that in order to regain the ground after Trump freed the Taliban keaders and 5,000 Taliban from prisons for the Doha agreement that the Taliban promptly ignored, Biden would have had to send in tens of thousands of new troops and there would have been another half trillion spent and more lives lost.
Trump really fucked us all over with that.
by Anonymous | reply 217 | September 29, 2021 8:44 PM |
R215 I'm suspicious of anyone that worked for Bush/Cheney but if he dethrones Abbott, that's good.
However the way Texas gubernatorial elections work automatically favor Republicans. Any additional candidates will be pitted against everyone else and end up splitting the vote. Abbott can actually win the governorship with like 20% of the votes if the field is split enough amongst multiple Democrats.
by Anonymous | reply 218 | September 29, 2021 8:46 PM |
R214 I understand as you age you get less logical and more emotional.
by Anonymous | reply 219 | September 29, 2021 8:47 PM |
[quote][R216] they didn't contradict him. They made suggestions and the ultimate issue was that in order to...
Nope, R217. The reason why I posted this particular clip (and not part one of the segment) is because the ladies get into a conversation about the Democrat infighting and not getting anything done.
by Anonymous | reply 220 | September 29, 2021 8:58 PM |
R220 the ladies aren't political experts. They're basically you.
by Anonymous | reply 221 | September 29, 2021 9:00 PM |
r218....Dowd is one of those very rare breed...a rational Republican who truly is bipartisan. Do you know he worked for Ann Richards...a tried and true Democrat and shit kicker if ever there was one.
by Anonymous | reply 222 | September 29, 2021 9:30 PM |
I blocked r216 and a big chunk of this thread disappeared...
by Anonymous | reply 223 | September 29, 2021 9:35 PM |
Thanks, r223. Now that PrimeTime over, the cockroaches are back.
by Anonymous | reply 224 | September 29, 2021 9:44 PM |
WHOA, R223!
I hope you enjoyed yourself! Make sure you clean up your mess!
You people are truly idiots....
by Anonymous | reply 225 | September 29, 2021 9:54 PM |
r222 I don't see how anyone could work for George W. and Cheney and still be considered partisan. I hope he's a Never-Trumper Republican, at least.
by Anonymous | reply 226 | September 29, 2021 9:54 PM |
^ *bi-partisan
by Anonymous | reply 227 | September 29, 2021 9:55 PM |