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Moderna's vaccine is the most effective, but Pfizer and J&J also protect well, CDC-led study says

A head-to-head study of all three authorized coronavirus vaccines in the United States finds the Moderna vaccine is slightly more effective than Pfizer's in real-life use in keeping people out of the hospital, and Johnson & Johnson's Janssen vaccine comes in third, but still provides 71% protection.

"Among U.S. adults without immunocompromising conditions, vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 hospitalization during March 11- August 15, 2021, was higher for the Moderna vaccine (93%) than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (88%) and the Janssen vaccine (71%)," the team wrote in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease, the MMWR.

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by Anonymousreply 288October 22, 2021 3:59 PM

I already said this. Moderna is the best of the 3. People prefer Pfizer for some reason.

by Anonymousreply 1September 17, 2021 9:04 PM

[quote]I already said this. Moderna is the best of the 3. People prefer Pfizer for some reason.

Huh? Many of us were not given a choice which one we got and had to take whatever they had on hand.

by Anonymousreply 2September 17, 2021 9:09 PM

I'm glad I got Moderna. Of course that was up to chance at the time of the first vax. The clinic had some days of Pfizer, other days were Moderna. Then I had to make sure I got Moderna for the 2nd.

by Anonymousreply 3September 17, 2021 9:13 PM

I heard a doctor say on TV a couple of weeks ago that the only reason Moderna offers more protection than Pfizer is because the dosage one gets with Moderna is much higher than the dosage one gets with Pfizer. If this is true and the dosages were identical, perhaps Pfizer would be just as effective?

by Anonymousreply 4September 17, 2021 10:36 PM

[quote] The researchers speculated the Moderna vaccine may be the best because it uses a strong dose and spaced out the two shots a week longer.

(from NPR.org article)

by Anonymousreply 5September 17, 2021 11:30 PM

I got the two Moderna shots in the Spring. So this past week when I got a little sweaty and a slight cough, I knew I was being protected from severe Covid once again.

God knows what this country would look like without those vaccines. People dying in the streets?

by Anonymousreply 6September 17, 2021 11:35 PM

There was a widespread perception that Pfizer was superior because people who got it reported much less severe side effects than Moderna folks. Perhaps, Moderna’s side effects indicate more efficacy

by Anonymousreply 7September 17, 2021 11:45 PM

I got two Pfizers, second one in February.

Can I specify a Moderna for my third shot?

by Anonymousreply 8September 18, 2021 11:09 AM

I got the Moderna - didn't have a choice was just what I got when it was my time.

Had side effects for about 36 hours. Started eight hours after the shot. Fever of 100 - 101 kept breaking and spiking. Felt like I was hit by a truck and had an odd out of body feeling for the day.

Once the 36 hours had passed I felt fine.

I have been exposed to COVID - that I know of - twice since getting vaxxed. Tested as a precaution - both tests negative.

by Anonymousreply 9September 18, 2021 11:56 AM

In France, people who got Jansen are asked to have a second shot of either Moderna or Pfizer, some people end up in hospital with a severe Covid despite their Jansen shot.

by Anonymousreply 10September 18, 2021 12:06 PM

R8 yes. However, you have to call around and ask. My Walmart had Moderna as did the clinic near it, but in the urban areas they all had Pfizer. Just ask which vaccine they have. They have to tell u Then go to that place .

by Anonymousreply 11September 18, 2021 6:15 PM

Supposedly you’re not supposed to mix the vaccines

by Anonymousreply 12September 18, 2021 6:19 PM

Dolly Parton FTW!

by Anonymousreply 13September 18, 2021 6:39 PM

Well the side effects kicked my ass so I’m glad it wasn’t for nothing. It makes perfect sense though - worse side effects, because it’s a stronger shot.

by Anonymousreply 14September 18, 2021 6:44 PM

Happy I ended up with the better choice.

I had wanted to get the Pfizer vaccine, but I didn't get to choose at my hospital. The worst effects from Moderna were flu-like symptoms: fever, headaches, and body aches for more than two days. A week later, I had a weird yellow bruise at the injection site. It wasn't sore. However, the yellow color took a while to disappear. The temporary discomfort was totally worth it.

by Anonymousreply 15September 18, 2021 8:37 PM

After 120 days, Pfizer protection from hospitalization dropped from 91 to 77. Why is the FDA dicking around about boosters?

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by Anonymousreply 16September 18, 2021 8:42 PM

I got Pfizer because that’s what the Walgreens directly across the street from me had, but all the other places around me that are further (CVS, Target, Rite Aid, my doctor) all have Moderna.

by Anonymousreply 17September 18, 2021 8:42 PM

Anyone who has a brain should have known Pfizer wasn’t as effective, I mean it’s aged at+ while Moderna is 18+

Even after FDA approved it they kept Moderna at 18+. That says a lot right there.

by Anonymousreply 18September 18, 2021 8:44 PM

Aged at 12+

by Anonymousreply 19September 18, 2021 8:44 PM

What exactly is the danger of mixing if Pfizer and Moderna have the same form?

by Anonymousreply 20September 18, 2021 8:47 PM

TikTok played a huge role in why Pfizer was the more popular one. TikTokers all kept pushing “young hot” people to get Pfizer, claiming it’s the one all the hot people between 18-40 are getting while Moderna is for over 40 or fatties/uglies.

Meanwhile Moderna was the better one to get.

I know people who have the J&J too but they’ve had zero issues

by Anonymousreply 21September 18, 2021 8:47 PM

Pfizer and Moderna are not exactly the same. Also, mixing them doesn’t give the full effect and safety.

by Anonymousreply 22September 18, 2021 8:48 PM

By now most of the country is vulnerable to Covid again.

I'm glad I was vaccine hesitant and got the Moderna only a month ago.

by Anonymousreply 23September 18, 2021 8:51 PM

I had to get Pfizer because at the time of making my appointment, everything around me only had Pfizer and I didn’t want to wait even longer for Moderna to be available.

by Anonymousreply 24September 18, 2021 8:52 PM

I got 2 Moderna shots and didn't have a choice. I was also suspecting that Moderna just had a higher dose of the same vaccine than Pfizer, etc. I did feel like crap after the 2nd shot.

by Anonymousreply 25September 18, 2021 8:54 PM

R23

But you could’ve got COVID waiting so long to get the vaccine. A month ago, my unvaccinated cousin was in the hospital on a ventilator with COVID. Thankfully, he survived.

by Anonymousreply 26September 18, 2021 8:55 PM

I got two j&j shots. I want to know how much the 2nd shot boosted the initial dose. I ended up with a bitch of an injection site reaction - so I know my body was primed from the first. I had a shitty next day after the first dose - fever, headache and neck/shoulder aching.

by Anonymousreply 27September 18, 2021 9:00 PM

I got Moderna even those all those superior folks were telling me Pfizer was better. Had zero side effects and have been so glad that was the one I got.

by Anonymousreply 28September 18, 2021 9:01 PM

[quote]A week later, I had a weird yellow bruise at the injection site. It wasn't sore. However, the yellow color took a while to disappear.

Shhhhh. Don’t wake the yellow skin troll.

by Anonymousreply 29September 18, 2021 9:03 PM

From what I've heard from my cousin who is a doctor, getting shots from 2 different vaccin is good. The pb came when people started to be scared of Astra Zeneca and were asked to get a second shot from a different vaccin.

by Anonymousreply 30September 18, 2021 9:07 PM

Ask your “doctor cousin” to teach you English.

by Anonymousreply 31September 18, 2021 9:14 PM

J&J is one shot. How did you get two?

by Anonymousreply 32September 18, 2021 9:36 PM

[quote]But you could’ve got COVID waiting so long to get the vaccine.

But I didn't.

And yes, I could have gotten Covid, just as you can right now.

by Anonymousreply 33September 18, 2021 10:35 PM

I didn't have a choice which vaccine I received. In February, I got notified via email by medical/healthcare company (UCSD Health in San Diego) to make an appointment for the first shot; second shot in March. I made the appointment, showed up and received Moderna. I even asked one of the health care administrators why they got Moderna versus Pfizer sent to UCSD, and she didn't know. There may have been a reason at the time ot may have been just the luck of the draw.

But the side affects kicked my ass for the next four or five days after the second shot (and to a lesser degree after the first shot). Still, the vaccine has been worth it. Glad I got Moderna, but I don't know why my healthcare facility got that vaccine supply versus Pfizer. I will get the third booster when I get notified by UCSD once again.

by Anonymousreply 34September 18, 2021 10:47 PM

I got Pfizer and was sick for a few hours after the first shot, but hardly anything but a headache after the second.

by Anonymousreply 35September 18, 2021 10:49 PM

R31 the french éducation nationale was in charge of teaching me english, I won't bother my cousin for that, thanks. Anybody waiting for the Pasteur vaccin? Don't bother, it's still not ready.

by Anonymousreply 36September 19, 2021 7:44 AM

R20 it’s like mixing red & white wine. It’s simply not done.

by Anonymousreply 37September 19, 2021 7:46 AM

I thought the vaccines were supposed to prevent us from contracting COVID period. Why have they changed the measure of success to preventing hospitalizations?

That’s such bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 38September 19, 2021 7:54 AM

What a bunch of revisionist bullshit. When the vaccines first came around, Pfizer was being touted as the Rolls Royce of vaccines, Moderna was the Volvo and J&J was the Kia. And everyone on here was saying they wanted Pfizer. Now all of a sudden everyone knew Moderna was the best? Sure, Jan.

by Anonymousreply 39September 19, 2021 8:04 AM

R38 vaccins prevent us from dying from Covid, it slow down the virus, but won't stop people from having it completely, and the virus can still mutate into a new variant who could beat the vaccins.

R37 mixing wine? in a meal you're not suppose to have white wine after drinking red, always have white first and eventually red after, but mixing!!!! and yes, you can have different vaccin, you guys know how to use google translate?

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by Anonymousreply 40September 19, 2021 8:36 AM

and another article

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by Anonymousreply 41September 19, 2021 8:37 AM

Pfizer is just as good as Moderna, which is why the FDA isn't proposing booster shots for everyone who had Pfizer, except for the over-65s and people with certain conditions.

The advantage of the BioNTech Pfizer vaccine is that a hell of a lot more of it can be made than of the Moderna vaccine and it's also cheaper. This is presumably because of the lower dose but its significantly greater availability trumps a few percentage differences in protection against hospitalisation - which is extremely, extremely unlikely anyhow - after several months.

For the record, I got Moderna because that's what was given to me, but I would have been happy with Pfizer too.

by Anonymousreply 42September 19, 2021 9:28 AM

I got the Moderna shots in January and February. I had had Covid the summer before, so I expected side effects. Both times it felt like I had Covid again for a few hours, particularly the violent chills I had suffered. Well worth it for the immunity boost, though.

I work in a hospital and am positively swimming in Covid. I’ve not had one problem since vaccination. I would love to get a booster ASAP so I can keep it that way.

by Anonymousreply 43September 19, 2021 9:29 AM

[quote] The advantage of the BioNTech Pfizer vaccine is that a hell of a lot more of it can be made than of the Moderna vaccine and it's also cheaper.

Isn’t the Pfizer more of a problem to store, though?

by Anonymousreply 44September 19, 2021 9:32 AM

No r44.

R43, if you work in a hospital then you might be considered a high risk group and so eligible for a booster.

by Anonymousreply 45September 19, 2021 9:40 AM

I'm getting a bit confused with all these rapid news stories: is the booster shot for seniors and compromised supposed to be 8 months, 6 months, or 5 months?

by Anonymousreply 46September 19, 2021 9:41 AM

AstraZeneca may have had a manufactured PR problem, but it's turning out to be the most effective. Some are suggesting it could be due to the longer gap (up to 12 weeks) between doses, but it is still an interesting twist.

by Anonymousreply 47September 19, 2021 9:49 AM

The problem with Johnson & Johnson is that it should be a two-shot vaccine like the others. That it's getting 71% with just one shot is impressive.

by Anonymousreply 48September 19, 2021 9:51 AM

No, it's not turning out to be the most effective, r47. This is why the UK government has effectively dropped the AstraZeneca vaccine and has shifted almost entirely to BioNTech Pfizer. Everyone in the UK who had AstraZeneca will now get a Pfizer booster (some might get Moderna but the UK does not have much).

by Anonymousreply 49September 19, 2021 9:53 AM

Oh please, AZ is NOT turning out to be the most effective.

by Anonymousreply 50September 19, 2021 9:53 AM

Had Moderna and zero side effects for both shots.

But am obese at 61, so I should certainly qualify for the booster? Abd obese people at any age should qualify for the booster?

by Anonymousreply 51September 19, 2021 10:11 AM

R49/r50 But it is.

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by Anonymousreply 52September 19, 2021 10:13 AM

Really? THAT's your proof?

by Anonymousreply 53September 19, 2021 10:16 AM

It's a legit ongoing study currently being peer-reviewed for later publication.

by Anonymousreply 54September 19, 2021 10:25 AM

[quote]Moderna's vaccine is the most effective

Scrolling through, I read that as Madonna’s vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 55September 19, 2021 10:34 AM

But it isn't r52 and its effectiveness already starts out significantly lower than Pfizer's so even though the Pfizer vaccine might wane it still doesn't get to as low a level as the AstraZeneca vaccine and the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine also wanes.

The UK government - which heavily promoted the "homegrown" Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine - has looked at all this data and has decided that it will only work with mRNA vaccines from now on, in particular Pfizer. They have already ordered 35 million Pfizer doses for boosters for winter 2022, i.e. over a year away. No more AstraZeneca for the UK.

by Anonymousreply 56September 19, 2021 10:39 AM

Close r55 - it's Dolly's vaccine!

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by Anonymousreply 57September 19, 2021 10:40 AM

r56 You seem to take those percentages at face value. First off, the AZ vaccine was tested under different conditions (during Covid spike in cooler weather) than the mRNA vaccines. I believe a large part of it's data comes from South Africa which, at one point, was the epicentre with a uniquely virulent variant. When all is said and done, Data from Israel shows Pfizer wanes and by the 6-month mark, starts performing significantly worse than AZ particularly against Delta. I think the fact that AZ is a traditional vaccine while Pfizer and Moderna use new, relatively untested technology could be it.

Again, J&J which is also an adenovirus vector vaccine like AZ, will end up performing better than both Pfizer and Moderna if taken in two doses, like every other vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 58September 19, 2021 10:51 AM

Two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech have greater initial effectiveness against new COVID-19 infections, but this declines faster compared with two doses of Oxford-AstraZeneca," researchers at Oxford University said.

The study, which has not been peer-reviewed, is based on the results of a survey by Britain's Office for National Statistics that carried out PCR tests from December last year to this month on randomly selected households.

It found that "the dynamics of immunity following second doses differed significantly" between Pfizer and AstraZeneca, according to the university's Nuffield Department of Medicine.

Pfizer had "greater initial effectiveness" but saw "faster declines in protection against high viral burden and symptomatic infection", when looking at a period of several months after full vaccination, although rates remained low for both jabs.

"Results suggest that after four to five months effectiveness of these two vaccines would be similar," the scientists added, while stressing that long-term effects need to be studied.

The study's findings come as Israel is administering booster shots, after giving 58 percent of the population two shots of the Pfizer jab.

by Anonymousreply 59September 19, 2021 10:58 AM

So far AstraZeneca followed by an mRNA vaccine seems to be the most effective.

It’d be good to see what one shot of Moderna or Pfizer would do for the J&J people.

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by Anonymousreply 60September 19, 2021 11:24 AM

R58, wtf are you on about? The Oxford study - done in the UK and which examined the effectiveness of Pfizer and AstraZeneca over the same period - shows that the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine starts off with a much lower effectiveness than the BioNTech Pfizer vaccine and also wanes.

Governments have far more data available to them than the clickbait headlines you read. mRNA is superior to AstraZeneca. This is why even the UK government is switching to Pfizer. The US never even bothered with AstraZeneca. All governments that can afford mRNA are choosing Pfizer and Moderna - but especially Pfizer because it has the most reliable production and delivery - over AstraZeneca. The EU countries, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand. The US never even bothered with AstraZeneca.

If you can see this image, it's from an FT article dated 14 September and shows graphs from data compiled by Public Health England. They show just how much more effective Pfizer is than AstraZeneca and that AstraZeneca starts off much lower than Pfizer and also wanes, so after x number of months it is still less effective than Pfizer. This is why the UK government is now giving Pfizer boosters to everyone who had AstraZeneca (while still Pfizer boosters to everyone who had Pfizer).

Note: in the first graph, Moderna appears to be more effective than Pfizer, but only a very small amount of Moderna has been used in the UK and only in the under-40s ,mostly in the under-30s, who already have very high natural immunity. Pfizer has also been given to older people, people with comorbidities, etc. and, as the other charts show, is extremely effective at preventing hospitalisation and death in the over-65s, far more effective than AstraZeneca.

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by Anonymousreply 61September 19, 2021 11:27 AM

^ In r161, perhaps a better way of saying "very high natural immunity" is "a stronger immune system"

by Anonymousreply 62September 19, 2021 11:30 AM

[quote] Pfizer is just as good as Moderna, which is why the FDA isn't proposing booster shots for everyone who had Pfizer

From a public health perspective, not an individual health view. An individual who had Pfizer is more likely to be hospitalized than a person who got Moderna, and if you are that individual, it’s a big fucking deal.

by Anonymousreply 63September 19, 2021 11:50 AM

Where's Astrazeneca on that list?

by Anonymousreply 64September 19, 2021 12:22 PM

All you're proving R61, is Oxford/AstraZeneca don't have U.S. Big Pharma's PR budget. And as for your FT graphs, a basic knowledge of statistics would let you know the AZ sample was much larger in the UK. Also, no. The vaccine trials weren't done at the same time in the same location. Pfizer, Moderna (and Sputnik) conducted a majority of theirs in the summer of 2020 when it looked like the West would have the virus under control. AZ went to places like South Africa. Those 94% numbers don't tell the whole story and now the world's preeminent medical journal, the Lancet, is about to publish the study showing AZ outlasts mRNA vaccines. This bodes well for Johnson & Johnson.

by Anonymousreply 65September 19, 2021 12:34 PM

R61. You're mixing the whole point. The vaccine effectiveness % doesn't indicate which vaccine is better because of many variables. But it is a fact that some vaccines appear to last longer than others.

Please watch this short video from Vox before further embarrassing yourself.

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by Anonymousreply 66September 19, 2021 12:39 PM

What are you on about R65? AstraZeneca is a huge pharmaceutical company. Moderna is the only small company in the group.

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by Anonymousreply 67September 19, 2021 12:40 PM

Just watch the video, r67

by Anonymousreply 68September 19, 2021 12:51 PM

[quote]But am obese at 61, so I should certainly qualify for the booster?

No, but you certainly qualify for Jennie Craig.

by Anonymousreply 69September 19, 2021 12:56 PM

R63, a person who got Pfizer is highly, highly unlikely to be hospitalised, like extremely unlikely. Like, 0.001% likely and even then it's probably only because you are elderly and have comorbidities.

by Anonymousreply 70September 19, 2021 1:00 PM

R66 I was replying to the first sentence of R65’s post. I think we were typing at the same time.

by Anonymousreply 71September 19, 2021 1:00 PM

[quote] I thought the vaccines were supposed to prevent us from contracting COVID period.

Obviously you weren’t paying attention then.

This was never stated. Not once.

by Anonymousreply 72September 19, 2021 1:04 PM

[quote] I believe a large part of it's data

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 73September 19, 2021 1:07 PM

Sputnik V could be the winner.

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by Anonymousreply 74September 19, 2021 4:17 PM

[quote]this past week when I got a little sweaty and a slight cough, I knew I was being protected from severe Covid once again.

MARY!

by Anonymousreply 75September 19, 2021 7:44 PM

Angela Merkel actually mixed vaccines: AstraZeneca first dose and Moderna second. They say an adenovirus vector followed by mRNA (and not the other way) appears to produce the most anti-bodies. So I've decided, after months of research, to take J&J or two full doses of AstraZeneca and go for a Moderna booster next year if required.

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by Anonymousreply 76September 21, 2021 4:06 AM

I got the Pfizer vaccine, I had no adverse reactions except, around the sight of the injection, my arm was a bit swollen for a few hours.

My elderly mom got the Moderna vaccine, she had no reactions at all.

While in a nursing home for physical rehab after fall, my mom got Covid last year, she developed pneumonia, then was sent to the hospital, where she was on oxygen for a few days.

by Anonymousreply 77September 21, 2021 4:51 AM

Way back when I got vaccinated, I secretly wanted Moderna, just to go against the grain. When I got to the hotel that was hosting the clinic, they had two (unlabeled) lines & I wound up in the Moderna section. So glad I did! Everyone in my family ragged on me for not switching to the other line. Yeah I had a really sore arm from shot 1 & had a fever & couldn’t sleep the night of my 2nd shot, but it was well worth it.

by Anonymousreply 78September 21, 2021 5:21 AM

My husband and I got both doses of Moderna in January and February. I don't know if I qualify for a booster at this point. I'm 56 and the only pre-existing condition I have is obesity, but I'm not sure if that is a qualifying factor for the booster.

However, we're participating in a survey at the University of Texas Health Sciences Center to measure antibodies. We had our first blood draws on August 30, which detected no natural antibodies from an infection but did detect antibodies from the vaccine. My antibody count was 350. His count was over 1000. We will be tested again at 3 months and again at 6 months, so it will be interesting to see how much it changes in the future. Although I hope to get the booster before then if at all possible.

by Anonymousreply 79September 21, 2021 5:24 AM

Do you have fewer antibodies because you're a great big fat person?

by Anonymousreply 80September 21, 2021 6:34 AM

R76, Angela Merkel mixed vaccines because initially the AstraZeneca vaccine was limited to the over-60s in Germany. Once Germany started phasing out AstraZeneca and mRNA second doses were being given to those who had AstraZeneca as a first dose, she had Moderna to encourage people not to worry that the different vaccine types were being mixed. She specifically did not have the vaccine developed by German scientists - the BioNTech vaccine, also known as Pfizer although the doses used in Germany are made solely by BioNTech in Mainz and Marburg - because she's a real leader and wanted to support the other vaccines and not wave flags.

Where exactly do you live that you can choose between J&J, AstraZeneca and Moderna? And why haven't you been vaccinated already?

by Anonymousreply 81September 21, 2021 7:16 AM

I live in Italy. Earlier this year, a guy in my building flew all the way to St Petersburg to get Sputnik V and he's still proudly bragging to everyone. I'm getting my first dose this week.

by Anonymousreply 82September 21, 2021 8:16 AM

Oh, and I haven't been vaccinated till now because I'm a low-risk introvert who rarely interacts with people and was waiting to see how the ongoing live human trials paly out. So glad I didn't get vaxxed earlier because I'd probably have with Pfizer, which after what's happening in Israel, I'm happy to avoid.

by Anonymousreply 83September 21, 2021 8:22 AM

People on DL who haven’t been vaccinated yet should be pulled out into the street and horse whipped.

by Anonymousreply 84September 21, 2021 9:33 AM

R83 the delta variant doesn't care if you are low risk, it spreads even in hot weather like India, love overweight people because it's often associate with heart pbs but the virus has no problem sending kids with no comorbidity to the hospital. Unless you can stay in lockdown until 2023, get vaccinated, and if it's Pfizer take it, it's great, just know that even vaccinated you can get Covid and spread it so keep wearing your mask.

by Anonymousreply 85September 21, 2021 10:56 AM

You're getting your first dose of what this week, r83?

What is happening in Israel is that people vaccinated with Pfizer are not dying and not being hospitalised or suffering from severe infection if they're under 65 and have no comorbidities. Why don't you look at what's happening with Pfizer everywhere else it's being used as the main vaccine, like Italy itself or Europe, where there are low rates of infection and death?

by Anonymousreply 86September 21, 2021 11:29 AM

Exactly r85, that poster is an idiot who thinks he's being clever but in reality has exposed himself to infection, which would also mean he can infect others, even if he is a basement-dwelling incel.

by Anonymousreply 87September 21, 2021 11:29 AM

[quote]You're getting your first dose of what this week, [R83]?

AstraZeneca. Tomorrow, actually. Not allowing Pfizer into my body, especially the way they're now pushing for boosters based on the Israel data. They're so blatantly motivated by the bottom line even though their vaccine is turning out to be the one that wears out the fastest.

by Anonymousreply 88September 21, 2021 11:54 AM

I neeeed my BOOOSTAH!

by Anonymousreply 89September 21, 2021 11:58 AM

[quote] Not allowing Pfizer into my body, especially the way they're now pushing for boosters based on the Israel data.

you're a cunt

by Anonymousreply 90September 21, 2021 12:05 PM

And an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 91September 21, 2021 12:36 PM

R77, glad Mom is doing better.

by Anonymousreply 92September 21, 2021 12:36 PM

R79, please keep us posted. I find this stuff fascinating.

by Anonymousreply 93September 21, 2021 12:36 PM

Why, r90/r91? I'm getting vaccinated, aren't I? Why does it have to be Pfizer? Do you own stock? I've done my research and it's led me to a different vaccine. Aren't you concerned Pfizer is lobbying for boosters for everybody even though they're not necessary at this point?

by Anonymousreply 94September 21, 2021 12:46 PM

You must be over 60 then r88 because Italy stopped using AstraZeneca in younger people months ago, because the of deaths from the blood clots caused by AstraZeneca vaccine.

Why don't you look at what the UK is doing, where everyone who was given AstraZeneca the first time round will be offered a Pfizer booster (more rarely, Moderna), while those who first had Pfizer will be offered a Pfizer booster too. And this is in the country that "invented" the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine and made a big hullabaloo about it.

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by Anonymousreply 95September 21, 2021 12:56 PM

The Italian prime minister had a first dose of AstraZeneca but switched to Pfizer for his second dose 'after being told his first dose had given a “low antibody response”.'

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by Anonymousreply 96September 21, 2021 12:57 PM

How old are you, r94?

by Anonymousreply 97September 21, 2021 12:57 PM

I'm 43 and I'll insist on AZ. If they refuse I'll settle for J&J which a lot of people like because it's one-shot. The blood clots were extremely rare and I'm only aware 2 cases in the news.

by Anonymousreply 98September 21, 2021 1:27 PM

I got Moderna shots, No. 1 & 2, 2nd shot produced fever for about 12 hours, and then a day and half of feeling "off" and no energy, lethargy. I got a 3rd booster, a little over a week ago, Moderna, and was assured that it would not likely produce any after-effects at all. It was actually just like shot no. 2 with the fever being *maybe* a little milder, but it still knocked me back for about 2 days.

by Anonymousreply 99September 21, 2021 1:45 PM

So people will get boosters every 6 months forever?

by Anonymousreply 100September 21, 2021 1:49 PM

So how does Canada have AZ and the US doesn't?

by Anonymousreply 101September 21, 2021 1:50 PM

Then you are bullshitting r98 because if you actually lived in Italy you would know that you can't get AstraZeneca or J&J at your age, which is also not used in the under 60s. You would also know that there is a very limited supply of J&J so it's very unlikely that you would get it anyway.

If you truly had a vaccine appointment booked this week, then you would already know which vaccine you are getting and hence know that you are not getting AstraZeneca or J&J. You would also know that you can't just turn up and demand whichever vaccine you want.

by Anonymousreply 102September 21, 2021 1:52 PM

Why do you think I'm still not vaccinated, r102. And I insisted on AZ, so I don't know what you're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 103September 21, 2021 2:05 PM

If you're 43 and you live in Italy then you cannot get the AstraZeneca vaccine, r103. Perhaps you should fly to Russia like your neighbour, to get the adenovirus Sputnik.

by Anonymousreply 104September 21, 2021 2:15 PM

Vaccines produce a high level of antibodies that wanes over time. This is normal and how they are supposed to work. It teaches your body how to have an immune response that helps you fight the virus vs have severe cases and/or be killed by it without the vaccine. Diminishing antibodies does not mean the vaccine isn’t working or failing , quite the opposite. While J&J might warrant a second shot., American and other developed nations should not be getting “third shots “ or boosters while the rest of the world is waiting for their first shot. The way to fight the virus and win is get more people vaccinated, not revaccinate the same people again.

by Anonymousreply 105September 21, 2021 2:20 PM

All three in my family received both doses of Moderna. Except for sore arm and one day which felt like a very minor cold - no problems at all.

by Anonymousreply 106September 21, 2021 2:22 PM

I will get it, r104. Even if I have to go to France, which I won't have to. If you insist and aware of the risks they'll have to administer it. Better than being unvaxxed. I know many younger people that got AZ (granted before June) and they have their green passes.

by Anonymousreply 107September 21, 2021 2:28 PM

J&J promoting a booster shot now:

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by Anonymousreply 108September 21, 2021 3:51 PM

I’m going to get my booster in Dec but I’m not 65 yet. I’ll just make something up.

by Anonymousreply 109September 21, 2021 5:48 PM

R100 Like for the flu, we have to have a shot every year, because there is a different type of flu every year. Unlike the tetanus vaccin, a bacteria that hasn't change in the last couple of centuries, you need to do a shot every 10 year when you are a child, every 20 years when you are an adult.

by Anonymousreply 110September 21, 2021 7:15 PM

Is there anyone here who can recommend which cigarettes manufacturer is best?

(Thanks!)

by Anonymousreply 111September 21, 2021 7:37 PM

[quote]I’m going to get my booster in Dec but I’m not 65 yet. I’ll just make something up.

I would not be surprised if the FDA actually approves the booster for 60+ -- it doesn't have to follow the recommendations of the advisory panel.

by Anonymousreply 112September 21, 2021 8:00 PM

Moderna vaccine halted for under 30s in Sweden and under 18s in Denmark after a few (very rare) adverse side effects. The same hysterical response happened with AstraZeneca earlier in the year.

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by Anonymousreply 113October 6, 2021 5:01 PM

My Moderna side effects were not as bad as others have described. Nothing after dose 2, but the worst post-injection soreness for a day after dose 1 that I have ever experienced. I think this reversal was due to likely Covid infection 4-6 weeks before dose 1. My derm and an urgent care doctor both said I appeared to have covid toes from visual inspection. I had had no other classic covid symptoms except malaise/tiredness. PCR and antibody test at that time both came back negative, but urgent care doc thought i might have been post active infection but before antibodies could be detected. So in effect dose 1 of Moderna was acting as the dose 2 booster for me.

by Anonymousreply 114October 6, 2021 5:22 PM

In April when I went to the clinic for the first shot they asked which brand I wished. I asked which seemed more effective and the young nurse told me Moderna. Apparently even back then they had indictions

by Anonymousreply 115October 6, 2021 5:25 PM

[Quote]What a bunch of revisionist bullshit. When the vaccines first came around, Pfizer was being touted as the Rolls Royce of vaccines,

This is absolutely true. People were lining up for hours in their cars for a drive thru vax praying that they'd get Pfizer. There was a Pfizer frenzy.

by Anonymousreply 116October 6, 2021 6:03 PM

[quote] Huh? Many of us were not given a choice which one we got and had to take whatever they had on hand

The most important thing is/was to just get vaccinated. Every week the CDC says different things about the vaccines. Each one has some type of benefit that the other ones don't. None of them are perfect. So far the vaccine you got has protected you from Covid

Ignore the noise about this vaccine or that vaccine. Every week it's something different. The CDC continues to continually give out different info that only confuses some people, may seem conflicting to others and can possibly cause more doubt to people who are already skeptical about getting the vaccine.

Their goal should be to get as many people vaccinated as possible.

by Anonymousreply 117October 6, 2021 6:12 PM

Messaging on the issue has been a mess.

by Anonymousreply 118October 6, 2021 6:23 PM

I went to Winn Dixie to get a third Pfizer shot a few days ago since they take walk-ins, but they're being strict about checking vaccination cards—the six months since my second shot aren't fully up, and they told me I'd have to wait until the end of this month.

by Anonymousreply 119October 6, 2021 6:31 PM

I'm fully vaxxed with Pfizer.

by Anonymousreply 120October 6, 2021 6:48 PM

I wish they'd hurry up and approve a booster for Moderna. My 2nd puncture was back on 3/9. I'm ready for a boost.

by Anonymousreply 121October 6, 2021 6:57 PM

FDA meeting to discuss Moderna booster approval is Oct. 14th. J&J booster meeting is Oct. 15th.

by Anonymousreply 122October 6, 2021 7:14 PM

R121 is jonesing.

by Anonymousreply 123October 6, 2021 7:37 PM

[quote]I wish they'd hurry up and approve a booster for Moderna. My 2nd puncture was back on 3/9. I'm ready for a boost.

Three days after they approved boosters for those with compromised immune systems, I called my local pharmacy and went and got my shot five months to the day after my second shot. Moderna.

by Anonymousreply 124October 6, 2021 7:43 PM

You don't need a booster for Moderna.

by Anonymousreply 125October 6, 2021 8:50 PM

BUT I WANT ONE NOW R125

by Anonymousreply 126October 6, 2021 9:06 PM

I'm going on 7 months out since my second Moderna shot, and I'm really antsy for the booster. I'm still careful when I go out, but the more time passes, I find myself emotionally cowering in the corner, terrified of everyone and everything.

by Anonymousreply 127October 6, 2021 9:10 PM

[quote] I find myself emotionally cowering in the corner, terrified of everyone and everything.

Really?

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by Anonymousreply 128October 6, 2021 9:36 PM

[quote]You don't need a booster for Moderna.

Some may disagree.

by Anonymousreply 129October 6, 2021 9:43 PM

I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA! I GOT MODERNA!

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by Anonymousreply 130October 6, 2021 9:50 PM

Moderna gives you a listhp, Thindy.

by Anonymousreply 131October 6, 2021 9:55 PM

I actually didn't want Moderna because everyone was saying Pfizer was the better one. Now, I'm SO glad I got it.

by Anonymousreply 132October 6, 2021 9:59 PM

Pfizer and Moderna have pretty much the same ingredients, but Moderna has more of them in dose. The FDA is considering a lower dose of Moderna for a booster.

by Anonymousreply 133October 6, 2021 10:00 PM

Sweden and Denmark pause use of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine in younger age groups over concerns the shots can cause rare heart inflammation

Sweden and Denmark paused usage of the Moderna vaccine for young people over fears of rare heart inflammation

Sweden will no longer allow anyone born after 1990, or those aged 30 and younger, to receive the Moderna shot

No one under the age of 18 will be able to receive the Moderna shot in Denmark during the pause

by Anonymousreply 134October 7, 2021 1:34 AM

I'm r88 and I did get my first shot of AstraZeneca but had to ask specially or they would've given me Pfizer. I'm getting my second shot as expected in early December. Multiple studies suggest the gap between doses (up to 12 weeks for AZ) may be part of why AZ seems effective for longer than mRNA vaccines. Meaning we will go even longer before needing a booster, if at all (study ongoing and still no suggestion of boosters for people vaccinated with AZ earlier in the year).

Message to all hysterical ninny countries:

1. All vaccines are effective ... to a point.

2. All vaccines have side effects, some potentially life-threatening, but only to a tiny, negligible percentage.

3. Pfizer won the PR/marketing war, but it's certainly not better than the others and could be worse in some areas. AZ got the worst publicity ever and should fire its PR department.

by Anonymousreply 135October 7, 2021 1:38 AM

Japan has also recalled Moderna. This is what you get when you rush vaccines. Suddenly, AstraZeneca's earlier problems not looking so bad.

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by Anonymousreply 136October 7, 2021 1:43 AM

Japan's relatively low vaccination rate is partly due to strong public scepticism and bad publicity for the Moderna vaccine there.

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by Anonymousreply 137October 7, 2021 1:46 AM

Several pharmaceutical companies are still developing new vaccines with some currently undergoing clinical trials. I expect those that took their time will be better and more effective. And if you're not particularly vulnerable, I suggest holding off on that booster until next year. You never know what could come up.

India has developed the first DNA vaccine which means other, richer countries may have their own in the works.

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by Anonymousreply 138October 7, 2021 1:56 AM

Vaccine experts advise the White House to ABANDON its plan to provide Covid booster shots to all Americans in yet another setback for the Biden administration's rollout

Meanwhile the new Quinnipiac poll says only 48% of Americans approve his Covid policies. 50% disapprove

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by Anonymousreply 139October 7, 2021 1:58 AM

Japan got a bad batch with metal particles in it. It's not the vaccine itself. It's the contamination.

Moderna is a higher dose than Pfizer. They act identically. The difference is due to the dose. Moderna's proposed booster is a half dose. Pfizer's is a full dose. So, the effectiveness numbers could flip after boosters become widespread.

Delta is so contagious that it is outcompeting other variants. That, and the number of people in the US who are vaccinated or have had Covid gives me hope that this will be the last large surge. But, mask mandates have to be kept in place through the holidays to keep the progress where it is this time.

by Anonymousreply 140October 7, 2021 2:35 AM

I feel like masks are here to stay. The Japanese pre-Covid habit of wearing masks in public and in public transportation is from the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 - 1920.

by Anonymousreply 141October 7, 2021 2:44 AM

[quote]Meanwhile the new Quinnipiac poll says only 48% of Americans approve his Covid policies. 50% disapprove

Not only that.

The new Quinnipiac poll gives his overall approval rating at 38%. Solid Trump territory.

by Anonymousreply 142October 7, 2021 2:45 AM

[quote] Sweden and Denmark pause use of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine in younger age groups over concerns the shots can cause rare heart inflammation

The Covid virus causes heart inflammation. In the beginning of the pandemic, scientists tested top college athletes who had recovered from Covid. They did every test imaginable and some of these athletes in the best shape in the country had heart inflammation. Almost all the athletes were asymptomatic and the inflammation didn't show up on most of the tests. It was discovered when the researchers used cardiac MRI testing

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by Anonymousreply 143October 7, 2021 2:46 AM

Vaccines haven't even been around for a year, we've had a slew of pros and cons for each one. Now it's Moderna's turn to take a beating.

by Anonymousreply 144October 7, 2021 4:50 AM

Big Pharma doesn't want people mixing vaccine even though studies show an adenovirus first dose like J&J or AZ followed by an mRNA second dose like Pfizer or Moderna results in atypically high antibodies.

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by Anonymousreply 145October 7, 2021 7:56 AM

What studies showed r145 is that a second dose of mRNA after AstraZeneca is better than two doses of AstraZeneca, which was patently obvious even without trials because AstraZeneca is less effective.

J&J is a one-dose vaccine, so it doesn't need to be followed up with a second dose for an initial vaccine course. Certainly, as a booster, mRNA will offer more effectiveness with J&J too.

by Anonymousreply 146October 7, 2021 9:04 AM

Basically, BioNTech Pfizer comes out on top for boosters too.

by Anonymousreply 147October 7, 2021 9:05 AM

.,.,

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by Anonymousreply 148October 7, 2021 9:10 AM

[quote] —I'm better,smarter and prettier than you.

You may be better than me and smarter than me, but you ain’t prettier than me, hunty.

by Anonymousreply 149October 7, 2021 11:07 AM

"Women were found to generally have higher protection against the coronavirus than men after receiving a second shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a study released Wednesday — although immunity in both sexes tended to weaken within months after full vaccination. The study also suggested that people between 18 and 45 years old had stronger immunity than those over 65 after receiving their second shot.

Results showed that antibodies against the coronavirus among vaccinated people fell briskly up to 80 days after receiving the second dose, although the pace of decline slowed thereafter. Women had higher counts of antibodies than men at both their peaks and at the study’s end."

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by Anonymousreply 150October 7, 2021 12:25 PM

Antbodies always decline after a vaccination. That's how immunity works. You don't just have a ton of antibodies floating around your blood. There are T and B cells that remember the invader and send out reinforcements in the form of new antibodies if you get infected. All this talk of antibody decline is becasue journalists are simpletons who can't be bothered to understand or explain in detail.

by Anonymousreply 151October 7, 2021 12:47 PM

I guess I’ll wait until the 14th to see what they say about the Moderna booster

by Anonymousreply 152October 7, 2021 12:48 PM
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by Anonymousreply 153October 7, 2021 12:59 PM

Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong.

One study from Israel showed antibody levels wane rapidly after two doses of vaccine "especially among men, among persons 65 years of age or older, and among persons with immunosuppression."

A Qatar study found that protection against infection builds rapidly after the first dose, peaks in the first month after the second dose, and then gradually wanes in subsequent months. The waning appears to accelerate after the fourth month, to reach a low level of approximately 20% in subsequent months."

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by Anonymousreply 154October 8, 2021 11:25 AM

Moderna also declines.

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by Anonymousreply 155October 8, 2021 11:39 AM

The mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) wane much faster than the adenovector vaccines ( Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca).

[quote]which was patently obvious even without trials because AstraZeneca is less effective.

No, it's not, r146. The video at r66 was made for people like you. Those percentages mean nothing. A vaccine either works or it doesn't. The only thing Pfizer has shown to be good at is marketing itself.

by Anonymousreply 156October 8, 2021 6:23 PM

[quote] A vaccine either works or it doesn't.

Weeks ago the term "vaccine" was REDEFINED by the CDC so no longer must it "work". Now it can just maybe help, or not.

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

by Anonymousreply 157October 8, 2021 6:32 PM

R156, that video doesn't mean anything much, it can be used to show that saying Pfizer and Moderna wane is meaningless.

The facts are that all the countries that are in a position to choose whether to use AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna are choosing Pfizer and Moderna over AstraZeneca. Even the UK, which made a whole big thing out of having developed the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

When governments - which have a whole lot more data available to them than the over-simplified stuff that appears in the media, are going with Pfizer/Moderna over AstraZeneca and J&J, that tells you all you really need to know. The US never even bothered to authorise AstraZeneca.

by Anonymousreply 158October 8, 2021 9:23 PM

Oh look r156, from the UK government's own study:

[quote]. VE against Delta is generally lower with the AstraZeneca vaccine than the Pfizer vaccine, but with both vaccines, waning of VE against symptomatic disease is seen from around 10 weeks, reaching just over 50% with AstraZeneca and just over 70% with Pfizer by 20+ weeks. With the Moderna vaccine, data is not yet available beyond 10 weeks.

[quote]VE against hospitalisation for the AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines for all ages is shown in Figure 2. Waning against hospitalisation appears to be much more limited, in particular with the Pfizer vaccine where VE of around 95% continues to be seen beyond 20 weeks after vaccination. With the AstraZeneca vaccine, there appears to be some waning to just under 80% VE against hospitalisation from 20+ weeks.

VE = vaccine effectiveness

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by Anonymousreply 159October 8, 2021 9:25 PM

They need to stop only looking at antibodies and pretending that's the be all and end all of the immune response. One of the most interesting things I read was that the quick 3-4 week schedule to get the two Pfizer/Moderna injections was most like superdosing in the face of an attack while we were swimming in virus. Actual booster shots are always given months to years later. When we get the boosters, those will be the actual boosters that will provide the longterm protection beyond the antibodies and whatever T and B cell protection you developed from the first round.

In other words, the booster is the real second shot that you would normally get for lasting immunity. You can almost consider the first two doses given close together as one big starter dose. It is not a surprise that protection is waning right at the point where the booster would normally be given.

by Anonymousreply 160October 9, 2021 2:14 AM

[quote] from the UK government's own study:

The UK government is full of shit. So is Oxford University.

by Anonymousreply 161October 9, 2021 8:30 AM

r157, I think you must not be aware that many vaccines do not confer immunity indefinitely. That's why we have to get Tetanus booster shots every decade or so. With mutating viruses, such as various strains of influenza, we need new vaccinations every year. These COV ID vaccines conferred immunity for a few months and limited immunity thereafter, with a certain relatively small percentage of people developing breakthrough infections. I'm sure that scientists are studying individual cases to try to figure out whether the breakthroughs are due to general decline in effectiveness of the vaccines or whether the people who experience breakthroughs are people who didn't have a vigorous immune system response to the vaccines to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 162October 9, 2021 9:55 AM

[quote]The facts are that all the countries that are in a position to choose whether to use AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna are choosing Pfizer and Moderna over AstraZeneca. Even the UK, which made a whole big thing out of having developed the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

Only because AstraZeneca was the first to get bad publicity from being linked to very rare cases of blood clots in some individuals. It was not an effectiveness issue. Moderna is getting the same bad publicity in Japan right now and people there don't want it.

by Anonymousreply 163October 9, 2021 10:47 AM

It's not about bad publicity in the newspapers, r163, it's about the effectiveness - and risks - of the vaccine. The Japanese government is still using Moderna but it has effectively abandoned AstraZeneca.

The Moderna problems in Japan were to do with a manufacturing problem, not the actual vaccine itself, whereas the AstraZeneca vaccine really does carry a risk and is also less effective.

by Anonymousreply 164October 9, 2021 10:51 AM

I got the Moderna vaccine in March the second shot made me feel like I was coming down with the flu, went to bed and was fine the next morning. When the booster is approved I will get it.

by Anonymousreply 165October 9, 2021 11:33 AM

Another thing people fail to consider is the fact that, if the dumbfuck contingent in America had all gotten vaccinated when they could, six months of immunity would have been enough to shut covid down here. It would not have had enough hosts to continue to spread. And, in those six months while our lives went back to normal, we could have moved on to innoculating the rest of the world as fast as we could to keep it from re-entering the US as much as possible.

So, again, all of this is the fault of Trump and his fucking deplorable army of morons. They need to be criminally charged by the fucking world for the murders of 100s of thousands of people. Trump killed more poeple than Hitler. Keep that in fucking mind.

by Anonymousreply 166October 9, 2021 11:33 AM

[quote]it's about the effectiveness - and risks - of the vaccine.

Risks and effectiveness are not the same things. AstraZeneca is still approved by the EU.

by Anonymousreply 167October 9, 2021 12:31 PM

AstraZeneca is not approved in the EU, r167. It has an emergency use authorisation from the European Medicines Agency (EMA), which covers all the countries of the EU. Each EU country can, however, make its own decisions, based on what its own equivalent of the CDC rules and also what its government decides. Just like the UK, each EU country has now effectively ruled out further use of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which they do not need anyway as they have BioNTech Pfizer and Moderna.

The EMA also lists the potentially fatal blood clots as a side effect of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 168October 9, 2021 2:00 PM

r168 really, facts are not your friend. There are people in the EU still getting the AstraZeneca vaccine as we speak. I got my first jab of AZ in Italy just last week, and I wasn't the only one. And again, the countries that paused AZ (like Sweden and Denmark) had issue with one purported side effect (blood clots) not the vaccine's efficacy.

Here's an overview of the current status of vaccines directly from the European Medicines Agency.

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by Anonymousreply 169October 10, 2021 1:37 AM

R169, are you the person posted several weeks ago alleging that you were getting your first AZ dose in Italy that week, even though you are in an age group that is not being given the AZ vaccine in Italy? You must be over 60. Not only that, over-60s are not really being given AZ in Italy anymore and those who did get an AZ first dose are getting an mRNA second dose - the prime minister, Mario Draghi, for example. All third doses and boosters in the EU for all age groups will be with mRNA vaccines.

Do you not comprehend the difference between regulatory approval and conditional authorisation?

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by Anonymousreply 170October 10, 2021 10:16 AM

Here's the Italian government vaccination site, where you can see in the graph towards the bottom captioned "Andamento settimanale delle somministrazioni" that use of the AstraZeneca vaccine has effectively been stopped in Italy.

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by Anonymousreply 171October 10, 2021 10:22 AM

^ Graph towards the middle

by Anonymousreply 172October 10, 2021 10:22 AM

I’m just here to say I love menluvinguy.

He sexy.

by Anonymousreply 173October 10, 2021 12:56 PM

Moderna does not have a booster shot yet. They have a shot for people who are immunocompromised but its not a third booster shot.

by Anonymousreply 174October 10, 2021 1:27 PM

r170 I'll be turning 44 next week. I live in Rome. Where are you? I got mine at the San Camillo here in Trastevere. When I insisted on AZ, they asked me twice if I was sure then gave it to me without a fuss. And the reason it looks like they've stopped AZ is because they didn't replenish stocks after recommending it for over 65s. And you know why they restricted it? Because it was linked to blood clots in 0.0004% of people who got the AZ jab.

by Anonymousreply 175October 10, 2021 3:59 PM

R175, you are talking complete bullshit. You were making the same claim weeks if not months ago that you were going to get your first AZ dose that week. I'm a UK citizen who is a resident of the EU (Greece), where I was vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine. EU countries aren't using the AZ vaccine anymore for the same reason the UK isn't and the US never has - it's less effective than mRNA, it has fatal side effects, the gap between the two doses for the supposed best effect is too long hence leaving people not fully vaccinated for up to 3 months, the supply is inconsistent and the company has not inspired confidence to say the least. Yes, AZ is still patchily delivering to the EU (the EU is one of the biggest manufacturers of this vaccine) but those doses are being directly donated to poorer countries and Covax.

Even if you individually insisted on AZ and the clinic just randomly happened to have some lying around, Italy as a whole has effectively stopped using the AZ vaccine and people are being offered only BioNTech Pfizer and Moderna and a very tiny amount of J&J. As you say yourself, you had to insist you were given AZ (if any of this actually happened) because Italy is not offering AZ.

by Anonymousreply 176October 11, 2021 12:16 PM

^Wow. Knows more than me all the way in Greece. FYI, there are still anti-vaxxers, including a few older ones, who're holding out. AZ happens to have a longer shelf life ( at normal fridge temps) than other vaccines.

by Anonymousreply 177October 11, 2021 4:15 PM

It's stated policy that Italy is no longer using AstraZeneca r177, as is reflected in their official statistics for which vaccines are used. AstraZeneca has exactly the same shelf-life of Pfizer and Moderna, i.e. 6 months.

by Anonymousreply 178October 11, 2021 4:47 PM

I'm telling you I got AstraZeneca at the San Camillo Forlanini Hospital. Why are you arguing?

by Anonymousreply 179October 11, 2021 5:39 PM

Sure, r179. Let's say you did, that doesn't mean that Italy has not effectively stopped using the AstraZeneca vaccine though. Even if they use that vaccine for a very few vaccinations a week (so few they do not show up in the statistics) in very specific circumstances, that does not mean that Italy has not effectively stopped using that vaccine in 99.99% of vaccinations.

Remember when you also got your first dose a couple of months ago?

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by Anonymousreply 180October 11, 2021 6:03 PM

[quote] Isn’t the Pfizer more of a problem to store, though?

The extreme cold you have to store the Pfizer vaccine always bothered me. I worked at a shot clinic and we had to throw out all our vaccines ($20,000 worth) because the refrigerator was left opened over the weekend. I think there would be a problem when shipped out to other countries, especially poorer countries where the standards are more lax.

I got the Moderna shot at my clinic because Pfizer was not available. I thought I was getting the 2nd best treatment but now am glad I didn't receive Pfizer. The PR for Pfizer was so misleading.

by Anonymousreply 181October 11, 2021 6:51 PM

The Novax vaccine is easier to store and transport than some other options, and is expected to play an important role in increasing supplies in poor countries desperate for more vaccine doses.

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by Anonymousreply 182October 11, 2021 7:05 PM

[quote]Remember when you also got your first dose a couple of months ago?

Read the thread again. I said I was going to get the vaccine then DL shut us out the same week. But I think you're just trying to distract from the real debate: you implying that AstraZeneca is somehow inferior to the mRNA vaccines. You were wrong then and are wrong now.

by Anonymousreply 183October 11, 2021 7:07 PM

[quote] So, again, all of this is the fault of Trump and his fucking deplorable army of morons.

Oh of course.

With the Nov. 3 election fast approaching, Democratic officials face a delicate political challenge.

Should they attack Trump’s vaccine claims too aggressively, Democrats risk further undermining public confidence in a possible lifesaving medicine while looking as though they are rooting against a potential cure. But if they don’t push back, it makes it easier for Trump to use the real or imagined prospect of a vaccine to boost his reelection campaign.

In September, Harris, then the Democratic Party’s vice-presidential candidate, hesitated when asked if she would take a vaccine that was approved before the election.

“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump,” Harris said, “and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.”

Cuomo went further, suggesting he mistrusted not just President Donald Trump, but also the Food and Drug Administration under Trump. Asked about his confidence in the FDA, Cuomo indicated he didn’t have much.

“I’m not that confident,” Cuomo said, adding: “You’re going to say to the American people now, ‘Here’s a vaccine, it was new, it was done quickly, but trust this federal administration and their health administration that it’s safe? And we’re not 100 percent sure of the consequences.’ I think it’s going to be a very skeptical American public about taking the vaccine, and they should be.”

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by Anonymousreply 184October 11, 2021 7:13 PM

Harris said that she would not take what Trump said about the vaccine at face value -- which is common sense, given that Trump lied over 30,000 times while in office.

by Anonymousreply 185October 11, 2021 7:20 PM

Moderna is out of reach for most poor countries because their prices are higher. A lot of this could be logistics, it's a smaller company with fewer production facilities and it's only focus is the vaccine whereas Pfizer produces multiple medications.

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by Anonymousreply 186October 11, 2021 7:59 PM

Moderna was supposed to have a press conference today…

by Anonymousreply 187October 12, 2021 9:16 PM

U.S. FDA staff says Moderna did not meet all criteria for COVID-19 boosters

[quote] (Reuters) - Scientists at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said on Tuesday that Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) had not met all of the agency's criteria to support use of booster doses of its COVID-19 vaccine, possibly because the efficacy of the shot's first two doses has remained strong.

[quote] FDA staff said in documents that data for Moderna's vaccine showed that a booster does increase protective antibodies, but the difference in antibody levels before and after the shot was not wide enough, particularly in those whose levels had remained high.

[quote] "There was boosting, sure. Was it enough boosting? Who knows? There’s no standard amount of boosting that is known to be needed, and nor is it clear how much boosting happened in the study,” John Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College in New York, said in an email.

Another article characterizes the FDA's response as

[quote] FDA scientists neutral on Moderna Covid-19 vaccine booster ahead of key meeting

The administration will make the decision on the boosters and may or may note take the FDA's advice.

One university professor characterized the strongest case for boosters this way: The people were promised cake, and so we shall have cake.

Yet DL fav Eric Topol said this about the Moderna booster-

[quote] The evidence for Moderna's booster appears to have "a lot of holes," said Dr. Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, California, noting that the data provided was limited and offers no insight into how the boosters actually perform in people.

[quote] "That is fairly short of what Pfizer had from Israel, where they had the full restoration of the vaccine effectiveness from the booster," Topol said.

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by Anonymousreply 188October 12, 2021 9:46 PM

The answer to this question is, of course, MAGAts.

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by Anonymousreply 189October 12, 2021 11:26 PM

"I said I was going to get the vaccine then DL shut us out the same week." - What the fuck does this mean?

You enjoy the AstraZeneca vaccine that you weren't offered by Italy then r183 and contemplate the fact that even the UK government's own studies - the government that heavily promoted "our" British vaccine - have shown that it is inferior to mRNA. Which is why the UK will only use mRNA for third doses and boosters and has also effectively ended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 190October 12, 2021 11:48 PM

Not sure that Eric Topol is right that the US made the first Covid vaccines. Russia and China had produced their own earlier and the actual development of the BioNTech Pfizer and J&J vaccines was done in the EU.

The first actual doses used in the US - of the BioNTech Pfizer vaccine - were manufactured in Belgium.

by Anonymousreply 191October 12, 2021 11:53 PM

So, there won't be a Moderna booster because the vaccine is so good it doesn't need a booster?

by Anonymousreply 192October 12, 2021 11:54 PM

The FDA is not all that enthused about a Moderna booster. But they weigh in with their opinion, and the Biden administration makes the final decision later this month.

by Anonymousreply 193October 13, 2021 12:05 AM

The FDA didn't authorise Pfizer for universal boosters either, just for those over 65 and those at high risk. The EMA (EU) has authorised third doses of both Pfizer and Moderna for high-risk groups and booster doses of Pfizer for everyone above the age of 18 (Moderna is still being evaluated).

I don't get why the FDA is being so reticent, even with Pfizer, for which there is more - positive - data.

by Anonymousreply 194October 13, 2021 12:19 AM

Got my Pfizer booster today. Now I wait.

by Anonymousreply 195October 13, 2021 12:30 AM

Girls, girls. You're both safe and effective.

by Anonymousreply 196October 13, 2021 12:33 AM

Moderna apparently didn't provide compelling data that a third shot was needed (r188) .

One shot of the Pfizer vaccine contains 30 micrograms of the vaccine, while one shot of the Moderna vaccine contains 100 micrograms. So three shots of Pfizer, including the booster, still provides less vaccine than just one shot of Moderna.

That's only one part of the skepticism for the need for a third shot of Moderna. So all the company has to do is provide data that a third shot would be really helpful, and apparently they haven't. The FDA wasn't thrilled with the evidence provided, and neither were outside critics like Eric Topol. But the people/voters may want a booster, regardless, just to feel extra safe around the holidays. And the stock market also wants Moderna to sell a 1/2 dose booster to the general public as well, so we'll wait and see what is finally decided by the Biden administration.

by Anonymousreply 197October 13, 2021 12:34 AM

[quote] The answer to this question is, of course, MAGAts.

Oh of course.

CDC data show 33% of black Americans are fully vaccinated compared to 40.4% of whites

As of last week, 57% of those who initiated vaccination in the last 14 days were white and just 15% were African American

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by Anonymousreply 198October 13, 2021 12:42 AM

R197, Moderna does indeed have more mRNA per dose than Pfizer, but the FDA didn't even recommend Pfizer for boosters, only for those over the age of 60 or at high risk. The FDA is being a bit of an outlier here compared with other regulatory bodies. I can understand that the FDA wants more data or it doesn't see that a booster is needed (either of Comirnaty or Spikevax), but considering the low vaccination rate in the US and the fact that there are few restrictions in many parts of the country, if I lived in the US I'd want a booster to protect myself from the riskier environment.

by Anonymousreply 199October 13, 2021 12:57 AM

Well stated. Where I live, 50 percent of the population haven't even received one dose of a vaccine. I want the booster.

by Anonymousreply 200October 13, 2021 1:10 AM

65 for Pfizer not 60

by Anonymousreply 201October 13, 2021 1:15 AM

R198 I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren’t an American and don’t know better, but African Americans make up only 13% of the US population and white people are over 60% so those new vaccination numbers don’t support your position. Also African Americans have significantly lower life expectancy so a larger percentage are too you to vaccinate. You need to compare adults to adults or at least control for age.

by Anonymousreply 202October 13, 2021 1:24 AM

Too young, not too you

by Anonymousreply 203October 13, 2021 1:26 AM

[quote]I said I was going to get the vaccine then DL shut us out the same week." - What the fuck does this mean?

Means I couldn't post on DL about my vaccination.

[quote]and contemplate the fact that even the UK government's own studies - the government that heavily promoted "our" British vaccine - have shown that it is inferior to mRNA.

No they do not. A study will be published in the Lancet showing two doses of AstraZeneca and other viral vector vaccines are effective for longer than two doses Pfizer, an mRNA vaccine. Pfizer is emerging as the inferior vaccine in that sense.

by Anonymousreply 204October 13, 2021 1:27 AM

R204, what does you not being able to post on DL have to do with when

It's amazing that you know what's coming out in the Lancet before it comes out. Which viral vector vaccines are you referring to? Sputnik is a bust, as is the Chinese CanSino vaccine, and J&J is only one dose. This would also be fascinating, considering no other study has shown that viral vector vaccines are effective for longer than the Pfizer vaccine.

The UK's own studies show:

[quote] VE against Delta is generally lower with the AstraZeneca vaccine than the Pfizer vaccine, but with both vaccines, waning of VE against symptomatic disease is seen from around 10 weeks, reaching just over 50% with AstraZeneca and just over 70% with Pfizer by 20+ weeks. With the Moderna vaccine, data is not yet available beyond 10 weeks.

[quote] VE against hospitalisation for the AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines for all ages is shown in Figure 2. Waning against hospitalisation appears to be much more limited, in particular with the Pfizer vaccine where VE of around 95% continues to be seen beyond 20 weeks after vaccination. With the AstraZeneca vaccine, there appears to be some waning to just under 80% VE against hospitalisation from 20+ weeks.

AstraZeneca starts off as less effective and also wanes more than Pfizer, which is why the UK government - as well as the Italian and many others - have effectively given up on the AstraZeneca vaccine and are going with mRNA.

by Anonymousreply 205October 13, 2021 2:13 AM

Way to cherrypick sources from who knows where to fit your narrative. The study reported in the link below will be published in the Lancet after being peer-reviewed.

[quote]The effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against Covid-19 declines faster than that of the AstraZeneca jab, according to a new study published on Thursday.

[quote]"Two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech have greater initial effectiveness against new COVID-19 infections, but this declines faster compared with two doses of Oxford-AstraZeneca," researchers at Oxford University said.

But thanks for being a shill and posting a "study" directly funded by Pfizer.

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by Anonymousreply 206October 13, 2021 7:24 AM

[quote]AstraZeneca starts off as less effective and also wanes more than Pfizer, which is why the UK government - as well as the Italian and many others - have effectively given up on the AstraZeneca vaccine and are going with mRNA.

Again, I won't speak for the UK government even though you're wrong, but the Italian government limited AstraZeneca to over 65s because of an issue with reported blood clots in 0.004% of younger recipients of the jab. Not an effectiveness issue.

But I don't care, I still got when I asked. It's Pfizer that I didn't want,

by Anonymousreply 207October 13, 2021 7:29 AM

Can the obsessive asshole who can't stop talking about AstraZenaca and Italy just fuck off already?

So, what are the chances of them still okaying a booster for Moderna at least for those 65 and older? I mean, can it do any harm to shoot another half dose into the arms of the most vulnerable? It's not like all the seniors who got Moderna eight months ago are getting antibody tests. Why not just give it to them before fucking winter hits? Fucking bureaucracy.

by Anonymousreply 208October 13, 2021 8:17 AM

This is just a one person anecdote, so take with a shaker of salt as it applies to other people.

I got Moderna in the spring and am on an infused immunosuppressant so I’ve been eligible for a third dose since August. I decided to wait until I could get my antibody test results since I am in a surveillance study. I got them a few weeks ago and my levels are higher than they need to be. (More than three times higher) My side effects from Moderna were harsh, but totally worth it and I am not getting another dose until I actually need one.

by Anonymousreply 209October 13, 2021 10:00 AM
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by Anonymousreply 210October 13, 2021 6:11 PM

ElderLez have you heard of any research is being done that tracked the vaccine brand of those that have been afflicted with breakthrough cases? A few folks I know that did have breakthroughs in the Summer were all Pfizer. I am fully-vaxxed with Moderna and am at the 7-month post 2nd shot mark, I'm a nervous nelly but maybe I shouldn't be as terrified?

by Anonymousreply 211October 13, 2021 7:23 PM

Yes, there are numerous surveillance studies that are ongoing R211. I am in one.

by Anonymousreply 212October 13, 2021 7:35 PM

I also know several people who had breakthrough cases only with Pfizer. None of my friends with Moderna have had a breakthrough case. I also received Moderna and haven't gotten a breakthrough case. Curiously too, almost no one I know who got Pifzer had a reaction from either shot other than a sore arm or minor headache, but just about everyone I know who got Moderna had miserable side effects, including myself, ranging from high fever, to body aches, to rapid heartbeat, to malaise/fatigue lasting up to several days, especially after the second jab.

by Anonymousreply 213October 13, 2021 7:54 PM

[quote] including myself,

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 214October 13, 2021 8:17 PM

So, since Moderna and Pfizer both use the same technology to deliver the vaccine, the difference has to be in the dosage since Moderna's was something like 3x the dose each time, right? So, the Pfizer booster should jump us up pretty well. That's what's been shown in Israel as far as I've read.

Thanks Elderlez. My 70+ year old mother is the one who got Moderna in our house and she had a hospitalization between doses, so I've been worried about her antibody level. She's also on corticosteroids. So, it's good to hear that even on immunosuppressives, your antibodies were three times the necessary level. Makes me hopeful. She also had a flu-like reaction to the shot, so I know it did something to her immune system.

by Anonymousreply 215October 13, 2021 9:01 PM

The fact that there is a longer time period between doses is also potentially a factor R215, but yes it does appear this might be a size does matter issue.

I am on an integrin inhibitor so I don’t want to generalize too much to corticosteroids (which I’ve been on, but not since being vaccinated), but yeah I do think it’s encouraging especially since my second dose was only a few days post-infusion. And I was miserable for a 24 hour period post dose 2.

My anecdotal experience on breakthroughs mirrors others on this thread. Pfizer, six months after second dose. (Mild case, appears to have transmitted it to no one else.)

And finally my wife just got her Pfizer booster. I am counting this as dose four since she had COVID between the first two doses. This was by far the worst side effect wise for her, but still nothing compared to my Moderna side effects.

by Anonymousreply 216October 13, 2021 9:29 PM

R210 thanks for posting that link! Very interesting

by Anonymousreply 217October 13, 2021 9:32 PM

I got my Pfizer booster yesterday and began feeling tired and not too great a few hours later. Slept for about 4 hours not long after getting home. Around 1 am, I began feeling very wore out, very feverish and had chills. It surprised me because I just had a sore arm after the first two. Feeling a little better, but began having diarrhea a couple hours ago and a slight fever feeling again. Not fun, but hopefully it means my immune system is responding well. Have been trying to stay hydrated, drinking water and gatorade.

My mother (age 76) also got hers a few minutes before I got mine, and she just had a sore arm.

by Anonymousreply 218October 13, 2021 9:43 PM

I asked about an antibody test at a minute clinic today because I was curious about my Moderna VE rate (March vax) and the NP said the test would only indicate whether I had antibodies (Y/N), not a percentage. So I got a flu shot instead.

She said Moderna doesn’t even have a booster out yet. It’s not going to be the same as the shots we got in the spring. Maybe a half-dose? It was confusing and she was really just over it.

by Anonymousreply 219October 13, 2021 9:56 PM

I got both my flu shot (right arm) and Pfizer booster (left arm) yesterday and both arms are sore, but otherwise no other side effects so far.

by Anonymousreply 220October 13, 2021 10:25 PM

R213: my 83 year-old mother had two Modernas and virtually no side effects either time.

by Anonymousreply 221October 14, 2021 12:34 AM

Podcaster Saagar Enjeti got a breakthrough case even though he was double-jabbed with Moderna.

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by Anonymousreply 222October 14, 2021 1:52 AM

R222, that bitch is a cunt.

[quote]My position on removing almost all pandemic restrictions remains steadfast

Hm, wonder how she got that breakthrough infection?

Has anyone who has remained careful after getting vaxxed had a breakthrough infection? Every single person I read about having a breakthrough is like, "Oh, I was so careful...well, except for this one vacation to Florida I took and that dinner party with 20 friends I went to last week!"

by Anonymousreply 223October 14, 2021 1:59 AM

Oh, excuse me, I meant...

R222, that bastard is a dick.

by Anonymousreply 224October 14, 2021 2:00 AM

3 plus 60 in my household received Moderna. Close to no side effects from either dose except slightly sore arms and even that was gone in 24 hours.

by Anonymousreply 225October 14, 2021 4:26 AM

So, the vaccines were developed quickly. They are safe, but the dosing was aimed at solving the problem of how quickly can we get a meaningful response through vaccination? That's where the 28 day product monograph came from. But in immunology the prevailing belief (and precedent) is that the longer you wait between prime and boost, the better off the body is in terms of a long term response. So Israel and the US had the lion's share of vaccines and delivered them on schedule. Other countries, short on supply, strung out the period between first and second dose in order to deliver first doses as widely as possible. (Canada is an example... the stretch between first and second doses was as long as four months in some cases.) The whole point is, when you look at Israel, in particular, you're seeing breakthrough and one theory is the first and second doses were actually so close together the body interpreted both as the priming dose... it is still waiting for a boost and that is why you get breakthroughs. So things ought to be pretty good once third doses are widely delivered in the populations where the production monographs were followed strictly. Interesting story from Canada on mix and match too, where they are not going to rush out third doses for the general population.

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by Anonymousreply 226October 14, 2021 4:40 AM

What are the longterm affects of the mNRA vaccines?

by Anonymousreply 227October 14, 2021 4:55 AM

What are the long term effects of Covid? No question marks there. Plenty. It burrows into your lungs, heart, brain, vascular points, more. Many of those 'recovered' (over 33%) are left with permanent damage to their bodies. It has also recently been learned that it changes the function of your pancreas. That can't be good in the long run. You do not want to get this disease.

by Anonymousreply 228October 14, 2021 5:37 AM

[quote]What are the longterm affects of the mNRA vaccines?

The mRNA vaccines enter the cells and guide them to produce the spike protein that is recognizable to the immune system but without any infective nature. The mRNA is read by the cells internal mechanisms and is broken down during that process. That cell then shows those spike proteins on its surface. It is recognized by your immune system as a foreign body and destroyed by antibodies. The immune system then builds a memory of that spike protein in case it ever encounters it again. If it does, those B and T cells send out a new army of antibodies at that time.

So, the longterm effects of the mRNA vaccines is the exact same as every other vaccine you've ever gotten. The only thing that is different is the delivery system and that delivery system is probably actually safer because it doesn't involve any sort of active or inactivated virus or some deactivated monkey virus. It only contains the mRNA strand, which is produced in other vaccinations, just after going through a few extra steps inside the cells. The reason the mRNA is a game changer for vaccines is that it can be produced very, very quickly in response to a new pathogen because you just have to get the genetic code and plug it into an already created platform.

You know, in case you were actually interested and not just trying to be an anti-vaxxer antagonist, R227.

by Anonymousreply 229October 14, 2021 6:00 AM

[quote]I’m just here to say I love menluvinguy.

Oh shit, r173. I've been reading that dude's name as "melvinguy" for the past two months. Thought his name was Melvin. My eyes. They need a checkin.'

by Anonymousreply 230October 14, 2021 6:11 AM

r229 you didn't answer that person's question, at all. They asked for long-term side effects of the mRNA vaccines, not their mechanism of action.

[quote]It only contains the mRNA strand

No vaccine in the history of vaccination has only one ingredient. There are adjuvants, lipid particles, and other chemicals involved, as well.

The honest answer to that question is a simple "we don't know yet because they've been out for less than 12 months. So, discuss your own risk/benefits with your healthcare provider."

by Anonymousreply 231October 14, 2021 6:16 AM

[quote]You do not want to get this disease

Apparently, I got it at some point and never knew it. I've been fine. Everyone is different. An overweight, diabetic, smoker over 50 who lives a sedentary lifestyle and lives off of processed and greasy foods is going to fair worse than a healthy person under 40 with a BMI of 19.

So...basically everyone down south and in the midwest is doomed. The south is full of fat people with all sorts of comorbidities and horrid diets, and the midwest is full of fat people with comorbidities and low vitamin D levels due to less sun exposure.

America as a whole? Doomed. Bunch of fat, unhealthy, sedentary people.

by Anonymousreply 232October 14, 2021 6:21 AM

R231, I did answer the question. The vaccination particles are destroyed in the replication process after entering the cells. The other ingredients you list are the same inactive media every other vaccine uses. The vaccines ultimately work the same way every other vaccine works. Your agenda is now clear to everyone. Thanks for making that so easy. You are dismissed.

by Anonymousreply 233October 14, 2021 6:35 AM

[quote]What are the longterm affects of the mNRA vaccines?

They're so new, no one knows. That's why only traditional viral vector vaccines, J&J or AZ, are the only ones I was willing to consider for me.

by Anonymousreply 234October 14, 2021 7:31 AM

[quote] is going to fair worse than

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 235October 14, 2021 11:41 AM

Is there a part of you that somehow wishes R232 had suffered a bit more? Because I'm sensing smug cunt.

by Anonymousreply 236October 14, 2021 5:16 PM

Ricarlo Flanagan — a rapper, actor and comedian whose credits include Shameless, Insecure and Last Comic Standing — has died at the age of 41.

Flanagan died over the weekend after contracting COVID-19. No word on vaccination.

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by Anonymousreply 237October 14, 2021 6:16 PM

He wasn’t vaxxed. We know that because if he was a breakthrough case resulting in death, it’d be all over the place. Not just a minor article on Entertainment Weekly.

by Anonymousreply 238October 14, 2021 7:31 PM

r233 You did not answer their question. They asked what the "longterm effects of mrna vaccines" are. You then proceeded to explain how they work. That is literally the opposite of answering that question, man. Just say you don't know, because we don't. That's, just a fact. Science isn't all puppies and rainbows. Sometimes you just have to accept the harsh truths and keep it moving. That is an example of such a harsh truth.

r236 I'm only speaking frankly and saying what most physicians say amongst themselves out of earshot of patients. Maybe if this country promoted healthy diets, exercise, and wellness overall, heart disease wouldn't be the leading killer for the past few decades and we wouldn't have so many people overwhelming the healthcare system during the pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 239October 15, 2021 5:09 AM

r239 is being ingenuous. Mrna vaccines have been used in trials since 2008 for various ailments. 13 years is more than adequate time to evaluate whether there are long-term effects, and in fact, that is much much more time than the vaccines that we all underwent for small pox and polio ever had to investigate long term effects. Since all mRna vaccines operate under the same theoretical premise, and very similar manufacture, etc, there are not going to be long-term effects that show up for COVID vaccination with mRna vaccines that never showed up before in their uses for other conditions. COVID infection on the other hand, has already shown many long term effects and the consequences for the health of all the people infected with it over the past 2 years will be unknown for several more years.

by Anonymousreply 240October 15, 2021 6:56 AM

r240 There is far more to vaccination than just the technology and methodology used. The antigen being vaccinated against, for example, can make all the world of difference with regards to how the human body will respond over time. I'm not going to bother getting into issues such as epitope cross-reactivity with certain human tissue cells, autoimmunity issues, etc. because no one cares to discuss that reality. Once again, no one knows the long-term effects of the [italic]COVID-19 mRNA vaccines[/italic], because they have been out for less than 12 months. There is nothing wrong with admitting that, and no one in science is denying that it's unknown. We have risk/benefit math models for a reason.

Anyway, one issue that is easily fixable (and infuriating once I heard about it), is the possibility that improper vaccination techniques could actually be causing adverse events; specifically with the cardiovascular system. It's not a mandated practice when giving an IM (intramuscular) injection to aspirate the syringe to ensure you're not in blood vessel in places like the US and the UK, and there have been speculations that heart muscle inflammation cases post-vaccination is because of this. When we were taught to give injections, that's literally the first damn thing we learned covering IM; make sure you're not in a vein. I can't believe people still don't do this, but watching injection videos, I've been noticing this.

That's why I don't support going to these ghetto-ass "vaccine sites" to get vaccinated. Go to your doctor. It's no telling what kind of clown is behind that syringe at those sites. That's common damn clinical knowledge. Unbelievable it's been happening.

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by Anonymousreply 241October 15, 2021 7:34 AM

[quote]I'm not going to bother getting into issues such as epitope cross-reactivity with certain human tissue cells, autoimmunity issues, etc. because no one cares to discuss that reality.

You're not going to discuss it because you know those things would have already been shown after almost a year of vaccinations being given to hundreds of millions of people. Go ahead an explain what you think the deconstituted RNA and the non-reactive proteins created by the replication process are going to do two, five, twenty years from now and any possible mechanism they are going to use to do that. Are you okay with the varicella vaccine? The Gardisil vaccine? Shingrix? All of those had the same length of development and study as mRNA vaccines.

by Anonymousreply 242October 15, 2021 8:43 AM

[quote]Go ahead an explain what you think the deconstituted RNA and the non-reactive proteins created by the replication process are going to do two, five, twenty years from now and any possible mechanism they are going to use to do that.

The most that is possible is an increase in autoimmune disorders due to exactly what I was referring to with regards to cross-reactive epitopes of the S-protein for SARS-CoV-2; more specifically GBS. However, GBS is a common side effect of all vaccines, and is certainly considered a long-term side-effect.

Some people may prefer to wait until there isn't such political tension and financial incentive for those driving the vaccine campaign to cool down before getting it. And that's understandable. Our leaders, honestly, can only blame themselves for their messaging and fueling hesitancy to begin with. The media has exacerbated that. And the cesspool that is social media has all but destroyed human communication beyond a point of revival.

All they had to do was be transparent with people. Just like, for the third time now, I'm saying we don't know the long-term effects. How many different ways one can say "I don't know" is a mystery. Perhaps French will satisfy you?

[italic]Je ne sais pas.[/italic]

by Anonymousreply 243October 15, 2021 10:05 AM

[quote] I'm not going to bother getting into issues such as epitope cross-reactivity with certain human tissue cells,

Whew.

by Anonymousreply 244October 15, 2021 12:58 PM

[quote] Some people may prefer to wait until there isn't such political tension and financial incentive for those driving the vaccine campaign

You don’t think the deaths of almost half a million Americans in less than a year, along with millions others around the globe had anything to do with incentivizing the vaccine?

by Anonymousreply 245October 15, 2021 12:59 PM

R239, you may be speaking frankly but you are not speaking for most doctors.

I work directly for the doctor who head public health in a major city and never once have I heard a breezy, oh-everybody-will-be-fine assessment of the reality of this disease.

Sanjay Gupta was on CNN the other night after going head to head with the idiotic Joe Rogan (who you sound a lot a like) and said flat out to him: I do not want this disease.

Bad cold may be what you think but you're a fool or a liar claiming all doctors say as much. If that's so, why did so many (and do so many) still see patients by telephone and zoom?

by Anonymousreply 246October 15, 2021 1:22 PM

[quote]Maybe if this country promoted healthy diets, exercise, and wellness overall, heart disease wouldn't be the leading killer for the past few decades and we wouldn't have so many people overwhelming the healthcare system during the pandemic.

This country should definitely overhaul its approach to promoting wellness. But an 80 year old who ate healthy and exercised his entire life is still at greater risk for serious covid complications than a fat, sedentary 35 year old. Age outweighs any comorbidity. The healthcare system would be overwhelmed by old people alone if they had swallowed your nonsense about "political tension and financial incentive."

by Anonymousreply 247October 15, 2021 2:56 PM

Girls. GIRLS! You're all pedantic.

by Anonymousreply 248October 15, 2021 3:51 PM

To reiterate the 'long term' effects of having Covid are already clear with more than 1/3 who have been identified as 'recovered' being left with permanent damage to their bodies. The virus burrows in everywhere. But most disturbing of all is recent studies showing having the disease CHANGES THE FUNCTION OF YOUR PANCREAS. That can't be great in the long term. Look it up.

by Anonymousreply 249October 15, 2021 6:53 PM

[quote]CDC data show 33% of black Americans are fully vaccinated compared to 40.4% of whites

Bad news for the "MAGAts aren't the worst, blacks are the worst" troll.

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by Anonymousreply 250October 15, 2021 6:59 PM

R243 Vous êtes un imbécile.

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by Anonymousreply 251October 15, 2021 7:09 PM

Looks like J&J's turn for bad publicity. Allegedly drops from 85% efficacy to 3% in just 2 months. What a fail.

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by Anonymousreply 252October 17, 2021 3:48 PM

I received Moderna. Jealous, Pfizer bitches? I hope so since you were the ones all bragging about Pfizer a few months ago.

by Anonymousreply 253October 17, 2021 3:53 PM

Which vaccine did Colin Powell get?

by Anonymousreply 254October 19, 2021 2:06 AM

r254 IMO, probably the saline version (can't believe they'd actually give him the real one)... and he died of cancer, chemo, sth else and/or old age and they're passing this off as COVID to support their "narrative." No a lot makes sense with this one.

by Anonymousreply 255October 19, 2021 2:20 AM

r255 Your opinion is stupid.

by Anonymousreply 256October 19, 2021 7:06 AM

I thought the Moderna booster was a done deal but there’s another approval that needs to happen before they can distribute it.

by Anonymousreply 257October 20, 2021 12:11 AM

Just a question if the first shot did damage why the f would u go for the second shot?

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by Anonymousreply 258October 20, 2021 3:01 AM

I can't believe people like R258 keep posting bitchute links unironically and think they are actual information.

by Anonymousreply 259October 20, 2021 5:34 AM

Sweden and Denmark halted Moderna on Oct 6 for men born after 1991. I can't find any news articles saying the "pause" is over.

Young men are most likely to get the heart inflammation, especially from Moderna which has 3x more of the nanoparticles or whatever the vaccine particles are called - 100 in Moderna, 33 in Pfizer, though they're reducing the potency of the booster by half I believe.

Eventually maybe young men everywhere will be advised to avoid Moderna.

by Anonymousreply 260October 20, 2021 5:40 AM

The heart inflammation is found more in a standard group of young males than it is in a group of young males who've been vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer. It occurs at a higher rate naturally. People are just paying closer attention while looking for side effects so they are finding more cases. If you took a random group of 100 young males and a group of 100 vaccinated males, you'd find almost the exact same number of cases.

by Anonymousreply 261October 20, 2021 5:46 AM

I looked up the actual numbers to head off the "yeah, right!" contigent:

-10-20 cases of myocarditis per 100,000 annually in young males in the general population

- 8.2 cases of myocarditis per 100,000 in military study of young males after covid vaccination

- .48 cases per 100,000 overall in general population after covid vaccination

- 1.2 cases per 100,000 among vaccine recipients between the ages of 18 and 29 years.

Guess what covid infection does to those numbers...

- 45 cases per 100,000 infected with covid have myocarditis

by Anonymousreply 262October 20, 2021 7:29 AM

Get myocarditis after the vaccine and recover just fine. Get myocarditis after covid infection and die or suffer permanent disability.

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by Anonymousreply 263October 20, 2021 11:45 AM

But what about MADONNA’s vaccine? Is that also effective?

by Anonymousreply 264October 20, 2021 2:38 PM

Not gonna argue... so Sweden, Denmark (Finland joined them and Norway made it a "recommendation" that men under 30 avoid Moderna)... so those four countries are just too stupid to find the data you supplied? Maybe you could write them a letter R261

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by Anonymousreply 265October 20, 2021 3:12 PM

^ This is exactly how reacted to AstraZeneca after reports of blood clots in 0.004% percent of recipients. It led to all that bad publicity that caused it to be limited to over 60s.

by Anonymousreply 266October 20, 2021 3:40 PM

It's a precaution r265 and those countries don't need to use Moderna in that age group because they can give them Pfizer instead.

The problem with AstraZeneca r266 is that it literally kills people. Over 60 people were killed by AstraZeneca in the UK. There's no need to force people to take a vaccine that can kill them when there are alternatives, especially when the risk of dying from Covid was already minimal for those people who died from the AstraZeneca vaccine. It's also less effective than Pfizer/Moderna.

The problem with AstraZeneca is the actual technology of the vaccine - a whole new vaccine will have to be developed to get rid of the problem. The problem with Moderna is that the dose is too strong - the dose can simply be reduced.

This is also why Moderna has a slight edge on Pfizer in terms of effectiveness, because of the stronger dose. But, since both vaccines are available in countries like Sweden, etc., young men can be given Pfizer and older people can have Moderna.

by Anonymousreply 267October 20, 2021 3:47 PM

r267 is making up stuff. Where did you get that figure that AstraZeneca killed 60 people? Link, please.

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by Anonymousreply 268October 20, 2021 3:55 PM
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by Anonymousreply 269October 20, 2021 4:29 PM

Oh, you're right r268, I underestimated how many people had killed by blood clots from the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK. On 16 June, 68 people had died from this cause in the UK, and those were just the ones that had been reported by that date. No doubt there have been more deaths from AstraZeneca blood clots in the UK since then. And that's just the UK, who knows what the figure is on a global scale.

[quote]Up to 16 June there were 389 reported cases of blood clots with low platelet levels in people who had the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK, with 68 deaths.

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by Anonymousreply 270October 20, 2021 4:41 PM

It's these kinds of stories that have led to the abandonment of the AstraZeneca vaccine by western governments, including the UK.

[quote]Mother-of-three, 47, dies after AstraZeneca Covid jab caused blood clots on her brain which led to a stroke

[quote]Lucy Taberer, 47, from Aylestone, Leicester, fell seriously ill after getting the jab

[quote]The mother-of-three developed blood clots on her brain which caused stroke

[quote]Fiance Mark Tomlin has since spoken about the devastating impact on the family

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by Anonymousreply 271October 20, 2021 4:43 PM

Here r268, is this a credible enough source for you? From the UK's own Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. Seventy-two deaths by 6 October. The blood clot death rate had slowed significantly since 16 June because the UK effectively stopped using AstrZeneca in June.

[quote]Up to 6 October 2021, the MHRA had received Yellow Card reports of 424 cases of major thromboembolic events (blood clots) with concurrent thrombocytopenia (low platelet counts) in the UK following vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca. Forty six of the 424 reports have been reported after a second dose. Of the 424 reports, 213 occurred in women, and 207 occurred in men aged from 18 to 93 years. The overall case fatality rate was 17% with 72 deaths, six of which occurred after the second dose.

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by Anonymousreply 272October 20, 2021 4:48 PM

^ Now the Scandinavian countries are dumping Moderna, just like they did AstraZeneca.

by Anonymousreply 273October 20, 2021 5:58 PM

Got the Pfzier booster yesterday in CVS. In out in 15 min. Little sore in the arm that's it. What's the fuss?

by Anonymousreply 274October 20, 2021 6:35 PM

Uh, people are different. And maybe your immune system sucks and didn't react?

by Anonymousreply 275October 20, 2021 6:40 PM

No, they haven't r273, they're just restricting it in a certain age group as a precaution. But what a pathetic response to finding out that you're beloved AZ has killed at least 72 people in the UK alone. Italy has dumped AstraZeneca.

by Anonymousreply 276October 20, 2021 8:58 PM

^ I got my AstraZeneca shot in Italy, fool. What are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 277October 21, 2021 2:05 AM

Moderna in Japan's and Scandinavia's shit list. At this rate, only Pfizer, and the vaccines coming out later this year, will be unblemished by scandal.

by Anonymousreply 278October 21, 2021 2:10 AM

Is this why people thought pfizer is the better one?

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by Anonymousreply 279October 21, 2021 10:25 AM

^Dave Rubin? Seriously?

by Anonymousreply 280October 21, 2021 3:52 PM

I chose Pfizer early on (March 2021) because I was hearing from a lot of people who did the Moderna shot that the initial side effects were much more severe. Now we know why (much higher dose of vaccine in Moderna) - but that wasn't advertised at the time. Now that the FDA has sanctioned mixing or matching vaccines, I'm thinking of getting a Moderna booster to bolster or optimize my immune response.

by Anonymousreply 281October 22, 2021 8:31 AM

R281, the Moderna booster is going to be a half dose.

by Anonymousreply 282October 22, 2021 8:37 AM

A half dose of Moderna is still more than a full dose of Pfizer.

by Anonymousreply 283October 22, 2021 9:50 AM

"Now we know why (much higher dose of vaccine in Moderna) - but that wasn't advertised at the time" - I don't know what you mean by "it wasn't advertised", r281. It was always stated that the Moderna dose is larger than the Pfizer dose. The question is, is the Pfizer dose big enough? It probably is for the vast majority of people. The only people for whom there might be a difference between the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are the very elderly, people with comorbidities and the immunosuppressed.

by Anonymousreply 284October 22, 2021 10:08 AM

R278, there is no "scandal" around Moderna - or any vaccine, bar a minor scandal surrounding AstraZeneca's dodgy attitude to its contracts and straight-up lying about its data.

The Moderna vaccine is still being used in Scandinavian countries, just not for the youngest age groups. Denmark is still offering the Moderna vaccine to all age groups, however, even the under-18s.

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by Anonymousreply 285October 22, 2021 10:13 AM

Israel is all vaccinated with Pfizer so you can watch them for answers.

by Anonymousreply 286October 22, 2021 2:43 PM

I never read, certainly not on here, that Moderna was a much larger dose than Pfizer. I don’t think that was common knowledge.

I just wish there was a readily available antibody test to determine the amount of antibodies left before deciding to get the booster.

by Anonymousreply 287October 22, 2021 3:20 PM

Your doctor can do blood work. I know that’s not what you probably meant by “readily available,” but the data is available if you have questions.

by Anonymousreply 288October 22, 2021 3:59 PM
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