"Mommie Dearest" Still Crazy After All These Years

The opening scene is magic. This film is dismissed as camp because the subject is triggering.

OP, why can't you give the film the respect it's entitled to! Why can't you treat it like it would be treated by any stranger on the street!

Because we are not one of its faaaaaaaaaaaans!

Barbara Pleeeeease.

"Nobody ever said life--or film critics--were fair!

I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt!

I saw the movie as a very young child at the recommendation of a teenage girl who worked at the video store. My grandmother says the teenagers working at the video store would always try and convince me to watch something besides “Dick Tracy” and “Drop Dead Fred” because that’s all I would pick out.

It took YEARS, probably into adulthood, and like 30 watches later, to realize Diana Scarwid was supposed to be playing a young teenager. I thought she was in college during that whole school era, she was so old looking. I didn’t think they wanted us to believe she was like 15/16. She looked 35 to me the whole time.

It became Joan's story in the film as opposed to the book which was Christina's story

R8 Christina doesn’t even like the movie and says it’s nothing like Joan.

I don’t believe Joan was this psycho. I believe Christina got her ass beat. I also believe most kids before the Phil Donahue era got their asses beat by their parents.

Kids got their asses beat even in public schools back on those days. I remember a teacher in the room across the hall when I was in 5th grade who would spank kids in the hallway with a wooden paddle for not doing their homework. Nobody seemed to think much of it, other than we better do our homework.

R10 did you attend Crawford Academy?

I used to take a “mental health day” from work once per year and lay in bed and eat See’s Candies and watch Mommie Dearest. It was very cathartic

R12 We know it was, Bette dear.

After 1970, “day drinking” became alcoholism and “child discipline” became abuse.

I shudder to think what the redefining of 30 more years of societal issues looks like.

Which types of See's candy? Bridge mix?

R15- YUM.

I REALLY like Sees Bridge Mix.

^ Milk chocolate butter chews and the Easter candy assortment

R15 & R16 I've STILL never had See's. I first learned about it when I learned Cher once worked there. Anyway, I think I'm going to splurge at Christmas, and build my own box.

Joan had a brother who blackmailed her over her alleged appearances in stag films.

She had a rough childhood. Her stepfather raped her and she had no real education.

The movie provided no context for the way she was.

Feud was much better than Mommie Dearest.

Mommie Dearest is ultimately about a cool, strong-willed child who is paired with an adoptive mother who is also strong-willed and expects a dutiful, always smiling child but instead gets a wilful child who is just a bit too surly for the refined Joan Crawford.

Christina was a little bitch who knew how to press Joan's buttons and didn't conform to the ways Joan wished.

Joan should have traded Christina in for a more loving child.

Christina was also a bit of a tramp, getting it on with boys at school. No shame.

Christina Crawford was the original Xtina.

[quote] getting it on with boys at school

And the booze!

Saw it first when I was 14 at the theater when it opened. The audience howled in the places you would expect. Crawford is besides the point in the film. It’s really about Dunaway trading in on her reputation in the guise of Crawford and a camp comedy about child abuse. Yet I never get tired of watching it.

"Mommie Dearest" is the second-greatest American film of the last 60 years, if John Waters' early work is held in a special category of merit by itself.

The greatest, of course, is "Showgirls."

well, r23, both Mommie Dearest and Showgirls probably get more traction and think pieces than all the other films released in 1981 and 1995, respectively.

well (sic), R24, do you think "getting traction" makes sense in this context, or that "think pieces" is a thing?

Those wouldn't be the ways to measure such monumental works of cinematic art, anyway.

Bean counters. Pffft.

I for one want to see the avalanche of think pieces for "Showgirls"!

Like this?

Art is subjective, but the fact of the matter is Mommie Dearest and Showgirls are still talked about, still beloved, still watched.

Perhaps they are works of art.

I barely remember which films won for Best Picture in 1981 and 1995. But I remember Mommie Dearest and Showgirls.

Wow, what an impressive avalanche, r27!

Anne Bancroft was all set to play Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest - and quit at the last minute. She dodged a bullet! Faye Dunaway took the role and it harmed her career because Hollywood didn't want to see one of its icons dragged through the mud. I read Faye's memoir and even a top producer told her years later that making the movie harmed her film career and she thanked him for his honesty.

But wasn't Faye already on her way out as an A-list actress? By the time of Mommie Dearest's release, a new group of actresses emerged on the scene like Streep, Close, Lange, Sarandon, .etc, that pretty much replaced the likes of Faye Dunaway.

Close who?

What did Bette Davis think of Mommie Dearest?

An excellent video from Be Kind Rewind.

I remember seeing it first-run and the gay GASP!s that ensued when Faye turned that chair around and we beheld her transformation into Joan Fucking Crawford.

Except ... very few people had VCRs in those days and there was no Internet to remind us what Joan looked like.

Today it's hard to see her as anyone but Faye Fucking Dunaway with some Joan warpaint on.

Bump

What's bumps doing in this closet when I told you no bumps ever?!

Great video, R34. Thanks.

R24 When's the last time anyone talked about or watched On Golden Pond, Chariots of Fire and Reds which dominated the 1981 Oscars?

R31 Sarandon didn’t get on the map until Bull Durham and wasn’t A list until the early 90s.

I'd say pre Bull Durham Sarandon was on the map:

Joe, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Pretty Baby. The Other Side of Midnight, The Witches of Eastwick, Compromising Positions, The Front Page, the Great Waldo Pepper, The Hunger, and her Oscar nominated performance in Atlantic City.

I recall what a big to-do that film's release was! It was beautifully filmed and colored, real grand-movie-era style. But sadly, as classic-era impressive Faye's presence was on the screen, she looked more as if she should have been portraying Ava Gardner than Joan Crawford. Many focus, of course, on the film's sensational screenplay vs. Christina's original book argument, but the "Mary" side of me also likes to think about how no endless versions of caterpillar-shaped, glued-on fake bushy eyebrows could really have convincingly transformed Ms. Dunaway into Ms. Crawford on screen visually, IMO.

I'd love John Waters to do one last big huge film production, along the lines of a warped remake of "Mommie Dearest"! lol

R41 yeah I know she was steadily working for a lot time but she wasn’t at or anywhere near the A list like the other actresses mentioned in that post. Bull Durham made her a star and then she cemented her A list status the next decade (well into her 40s).

I saw Debbie Reynolds on Larry King. (ah those were the days.)

She confirmed that Joan would get drunk and go home and take it out on the kids and that Christina got most of it.

Where are the other kids? Did the ever speak out? Confirm Deny?

The younger daughters, who may or may not have been twins, depending on who you believe, said there was no abuse.

Christopher did confirm the abuse. He died first of the four, I think.

Only Christina is alive today.

Line up! I feel like beatin some ass!

Don't need hangers for a good,, old fashioned whoop ass.

[quote]She confirmed that Joan would get drunk and go home and take it out on the kids and that Christina got most of it.

"CHRISTINAAAAA! Where is MY PLACE?"

" ... the Brown Derby?"

* coat-hanger beating commences *

People laugh when we are uncomfortable. This is not a perfect film but it is not camp either. Laughing during the scenes Joan is raging, screaming, beating and trying to kill her children eases the discomfort.

R51 So true

We are not discussing Kamala.

That's right, because we are discussing ME!!!

If this happened today, Joan and Christina’s fights would end with Christina shouting “Fuck you, Bitch” or Christina sneaking in Joans closet to cut the crotch out of all her panties.

It's the "I respond to and like my own troll posts" troll R51, R52. Ugh. It's troll conservatives that make DL "too political". Go back to Parler.

While Rutanya Alda's book isn't a thrill a minute, there are some good bits in it. There were two scenes cut that went a long way to a more multifaceted portrayal of Joan, but they were cut before filming.

[quote] I'd love John Waters to do one last big huge film production, along the lines of a warped remake of "Mommie Dearest"! lol

I saw a theater in Chicago do a combo of Mommie Dearest and A Christmas Carol.

It was twisted, and utterly fabulous.

As someone who hates wire hangers, I have always had a lot of sympathy for Joan.

R51 Nope, I laughed because it was funny.

Whoever wrote the screenplay turned Christina into 'Annie' and Joan into 'Miss Hannigan'. It was only missing a few catchy tunes.

I can handle the socks.

R24, I actually do think there is something to what you typed. People laugh at Showgirls and I do think it's misdirected in many parts but I can think of many far worse films released in the past 5 years. The truth is, Showgirls and Mommie Dearest (regardless of how you feel about it) have SOMETHING that taps into the public's imagination (and not in a "so bad it's good" way either).

Oh, big chunks of it are So Bad It's Good, or Grand Guignol.

Showgirls is camp.Mommie Dearest is about a great movie star, disciplined and revered experiencing a decline in her personal and professional life. That OTT scene where JC tackles and chokes her daughter? Joan tried to kill Christina that day. It may be a good laugh riot for dataloungers but it's a grim story. Not light and fluffy.

The sad thing is, as campy and silly as that movie is, if you ever watch the scenes on YouTube, in the comments there’s so many people who can relate to seeing an over the top abusive mother in action. A lot of people are like “I don’t know why people found this funny, this is just like my mother”.

R65 Some people look for things to offend them in Movies and TV Shows.

And some people capitalize words that shouldn't be capitalized.

R53 Kamala is going to be on The View Friday. Maybe she'll talk about Mommie Dearest.

"I Moved The Tree: Seven Ways You Can, Too!"

The nanny confirmed the abuse and that joan used to make her tie the kid into his high chair...a 600 dollor dress on a WIRE HANGER !!!!!

[quote] a 600 dollor dress on a WIRE HANGER !!!!!

Inflation is a bitch.

And so is Joan!

[quote] 600 dollor

Oh, dear.

Someone here says Joan had transparent plastic covers on her sofas.

I wonder if that's true?

Christina was a scheming cunt

I wish i had an adorable young girl who would make drinks for my gentleman callers.. oops I meant "uncles"

R73, upholstered furniture encased in transparent plastic was a 60s thing. Some of DL’s elder gays can corroborate being forbidden as children to play in the rooms with the plastic-covered furniture (typically a living room reserved for ‘company’ as opposed to a ‘den’ or family room).

"if you ever watch the scenes on YouTube, in the comments there’s so many people who can relate to seeing an over the top abusive mother in action."

That's the thing, "Mommie Dearest" is both a drama about child abuse and an unintentional comedy. Yes, Christina's book about her childhood rings true because that's exactly how mothers on the narcissism spectrum treat their kids, my mother wasn't as bad but I also spent my childhood having my mother furious at me for failing to make polishing her image my #1 priority in life.

But it's also camp, unintentional camp, because the ham-handed Dunaway was playing a ham-handed actress who was as artificial in her private life as she was on screen... and there's really no other way to play Crawford. Crawford really WAS a monster of ego and artifice, and when Jessica Lange tried playing her as an ordinary human being she missed everything that made Joan Crawford into the star she was.

Re the plastic on the furniture: I remember visiting some relatives when I was in grade school, some time in the late sixties, and seeing plastic slipcovers on their furniture. I thought it was the most tasteless lower-middle thing I'd ever seen in my short life!

I wasn't raised to be tasteful or anything, my family of origin were barbarians.

I would argue that the other thing that makes the film camp is the fact that Scarwid underplays Christina to the same level that Dunaway overplays Joan which makes Dunaway look like she's overacting even more.

Finally got the Blu-Ray!!!

[quote]...he adaptation of Christina Crawford's still-controversial book satisfied nobody involved: star Dunaway, author Christina, or Joan's defenders.

Yes, all true, and yet everyone on earth seems to have seen it and millions enjoyed it for the semi-capable-yet-bizarrely-off film that it is. Forty years later we are still watching it, quoting it and having the times of our lives savoring its rich, compelling awfulness (in parts).

It is like a timeless gift to us all!

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

^^

something positive for a change

OP, this is negative. Why can’t you post about positive things, like the Marlon Brando film I did that was the hit of all of Europe and Cannes?

.,.,

Tonight Show, 1962 (audio only).