New Zealand Māori party launches petition to change country’s name to Aotearoa

It's six syllables long! Double the length of the current name.

Too many mouth-wrenching vowels!

Nice priorities.

[quote] New Zealand is a Dutch name. Even the Dutch have changed their name – from Holland to the Netherlands, for Christ’s sakes!”

[quote] Even the Dutch have changed their name – from Holland to the Netherlands, for Christ’s sakes!”

This is a false statement.

Aotearoa = Land of the Wrong White Crowd

Oh, to live in a prosperous and forgotten little island nation where THIS is the most fiery issue of the day.

Ay.

Oh.

Tea.

Ah.

Ro.

Ah.

Those people in the picture should wash their faces before they try to persuade the country on political matters

The Māori could follow the path of the Nunavutians.

Better than Denali LOL

What next - all public schools to be taught in the Maori language? All government documents to be written in Maori? All news and weather reports as well?

Why do they allow a Maori political party? Would they allow an Asian or Caucasian party that would promote their own special interests?

The more the Maorier.

Handshakes out, nose bumping in.

New National Anthem:

The Maori are one of the most respected indigenous groups in western civilised countries.

It’s not a big deal to change the name of a country. It has happened multiple times in the last couple of decades in Africa and Asia and parts of Europe.

But the right-wing hardliners are going to get their panties in a bunch over this of course.

: shrug :

R15 I hope you're not putting up Africa as a role model—

I’m ok with that. What the fuck is a Zea anyway?

I approve. Take back what was stolen, if you can.

Britain should revert to its original name of Albion.

R18 It wasn't "stolen". There was a treaty.

Why don’t they compromise and name it Phil?

But the petition is in English , the language of the oppressor!

Dumb misguided cunts. And that cunt may have a te moko, but she is whiter, and faker, than even I am.

And Aotearoa is not even a Maori word, as Michael king pointed out decades ago.

>>>>The Maori are one of the most respected indigenous groups in western civilised countries.

'Māori are disproportionately represented in criminal justice statistics to an alarming degree. Despite Māori only making up 15 per cent of the population, they account for a staggering 52.7 per cent of the prison population.'

Additionally - one in three maori women is a victim of domestic violence.

We could look at employment and welfare statistics as well..

R22, it’s actually written in both languages.

Google is your friend. Ignorance just makes you look like an ass.

R25 Oh fuck off you mental spastic.

Good zealand was a stupid name.

[quote] It’s not a big deal to change the name of a country. It has happened multiple times in the last couple of decades in Africa and Asia and parts of Europe.

[quote] But the right-wing hardliners are going to get their panties in a bunch over this of course.

New Zealand is one of only a few countries in Polynesia that isn't named in its original language.

Samoa, Tonga, Tahiti, and even Hawaii are all named in their native languages.

On the other hand, New Zealand, Easter Island, and the Cook Islands are not.

I think the indigenous names sound nicer. Aotearoa (NZ), Rapa Nui (Easter Island), and I think that the Cook Islands are called Rarotonga, but I'm not sure.

Rarotonga is one island in the Cook group.

R28 Easter island should be next, stupid name also.

R18 Funny how people feel this way, yet get mad when Jews took back the land that the Arabs stole.

[quote] I think the indigenous names sound nicer.

Why? R28 Is it more exotic?

Is it sufficiently 'nicer' for you to go and spend your tourist dollars there?

If we can do it so can NZ!

Many Maori men are in prisons. This won't fly if they can't vote.

R32 Your new screen name should be New Bitchcunt.

Aotearoa is not the fucking Maori name you pig ignorant fucks.

I disapprove of their testosterone-filled "haka" where they mimic cutting the necks of the opposing team.

I feel the opposing team should be permitted to mimic shooting a gun at their heart in return.

[quote] Additionally - one in three maori women is a victim of domestic violence.

If more people watched indie movies, they would know this already.

[quote] Once Were Warriors

That slogan is the often-used excuse for 'beating your wife'.

It's enshrined in the culture of other tribes nearby to the Maori that the husband knocks out the front tooth of his wife.

It is their tradition.

It will happen at some stage. As the Older generation part this world, (hurry up Judith Collins) the newbies will get their wish. It's not like it's going to divide the country.

Hmmm.

[quote]nose bumping in.

That's hongi to you, pakeha.

[quote]The Maori are one of the most respected indigenous groups

Maori are not indigenous. They are First. Migrated first to the Cook Islands. Some kept going til they hit New Zealand. Bunch of vicious cannibals the lot of 'em. I think it was in the book The Origin of Maori Wars which described the victors of war carrying back to their camp 66 baskets of the losers' body parts for their victory feast.

The people of Ceylon, Zaire and Rhodesia all recommend this happening.

Their economies TOOK OFF when those name changes, R43.

R43 How do you explain Rhodesia's economy 'taking off'?

The World Health Organization estimates that a quarter of Zimbabwe's population is “food insecure.” 62% live below the poverty line.

R43 31 million live below the poverty line in the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire). They earn less than US$ 1.25 per day.

Didn't South Sudan change their name and immediately fall into extreme poverty?

What a load of pathetic trolls on this thread. Aotearoa is a better name. New Zealand is stupid. It doesn't mean anything.

[quote]Bunch of vicious cannibals the lot of 'em.

Like YOU never ate a guy.

The reality is that without the white colonization, it's unlikely that New Zealand would enjoy it's current standard of living, economic success, or many other benefits of the modern world.

I am neither excusing nor justifying it colonization.

I'm merely suggesting that the situation is a lot more complicated than the white-people-are-bad tropes that are routinely raised to justify certain actions. The difference is that back then, it was standard and accepted practice to engage in colonization by European powers. We only use hindisght and standards of today to wag our fingers at it. Today, such behaviors are not acceptable (yet still done - see Middle East). But, you cannot undo the past.

Thanks for that lecture professor (R48). It never occurred to me.

/sarcasm.

We KNOW about white men/Western Civilisation, etc. we also know that the same group who gave us all those BRILLiANT minds gave us oppressive, greedy fuckwits who abused their power. And a lot of mediocre white men of late enjoy a degree of privilege not afforded to more talented people of oppressed cultures.

The problem isn’t that people doesn’t recognise the contributions of white male ancestors. The problem is more that so many people can’t admit the dark underbelly of the development of Western Civilisation and how it was built off the backs of the oppressed. It’s those people who don’t want to accept and learn about this who are holding us back.

See: those who get their panties in a bunch when someone knocks down a Confederate statue.

[quote]Bunch of vicious cannibals the lot of 'em.

[quote]Like YOU never ate a guy.

R47 There's a vast difference between "eating" and barbequing arms, legs and entrails for communal consumption by the victorious.

Areola

Team name change.

R49

[quote] And a lot of mediocre white men of late enjoy a degree of privilege not afforded to more talented people of oppressed cultures.

Who are you thinking of? Kiri Te Kanawa?

[quote]. Even the Dutch have changed their name – from Holland to the Netherlands, for Christ’s sakes!”

actually this is false, Holland was and still is the two provinces in the west of the country that are the most powerful and populous. the name of the place in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was simply "the United Provinces". only later when they became a monarchy was the country renamed to "the Kingdom of the Netherlands ". Holland was never the name of any country

[quote]The problem is more that so many people can’t admit the dark underbelly of the development of Western Civilisation and how it was built off the backs of the oppressed. It’s those people who don’t want to accept and learn about this who are holding us back.

What is "holding us back" is the ludicrous belief that Western civilization is somehow the cause of everyone's "misfortune", that without it, the "oppressed" would have been and been able to progress unfettered. This of course completely ignores the tribal nature of most of the world and that the "oppressed" were equally oppressive, exploitive and greedy., which can be still be seen in societies from the Atlantic to the Arafura Sea. Of course, one could take the hypocritical road of "well, I don't care if they're exploiting one another, but. . ." as long as one realizes the folly of such a path.

The biggest mistake the West made was to introduce modern medicine to the poor, oppressed, exploited and undeveloped. Would have saved a heap on regional wars, skirmishes, to say nothing of invasions of flourishing societies from those failed, overcrowded, due to 90% of the pop living past the age of 10 thanx to Western medicine, ones.

What has Holland got to do with (new) Zealand ?

R56 The first Europeans into the area were the Dutch. Janzoon rucked up in Australia in 1606, Tasman rucked up in EnZed in 1642.

^^^ Janszoon ^^^

Next stop: Maharlika

[quote]'Māori are disproportionately represented in criminal justice statistics to an alarming degree. Despite Māori only making up 15 per cent of the population, they account for a staggering 52.7 per cent of the prison population.'

Sounds familiar.

Any cute Maori gay ?

Datalounge should rebrand with a name that reflect its true self: The Cunty Cesspool.

It will happen. Who's going to argue against it and risk being cancelled?

“ Didn't South Sudan change their name and immediately fall into extreme poverty?”

Well, it’s expensive changing the name of the country on all their stationery.

[quote] R18 Funny how people feel this way, yet get mad when Jews took back the land that the Arabs stole.

The Arabs didn't "steal" the land from the Jewish people.

Read your history.

The Roman Empire destroyed the temple in Jerusalem and tried to exterminate the Jewish people, causing the Jewish "diaspora." They were forced to leave their homeland because the Roman Army sent them packing.

The Arabs have always been there, and they essentially moved on to a "vacant lot" after the Romans dispersed the Jewish people.

Incidentally, both the Arabs and the Jews are part of the 12 tribes of Israel, which people tend to forget. They're all related.

[quote] The problem is more that so many people can’t admit the dark underbelly of the development of Western Civilisation and how it was built off the backs of the oppressed

At least the Polynesians got revenge by killing and eating their oppressor, Captain Cook!

[quote] What has Holland got to do with (new) Zealand ?

The Dutch actually discovered Aotearoa, and not the British.

They named it after one of the areas of their country, Zeeland.

Later, the British came in and took over.

If you're going to change the name of something, it better be 4 or fewer syllables. Mt. McKinley was changed to Mt. Denali, both 3 syllables. Nearly half of US states have native American names that many foreigners have problem pronouncing, the most difficult being Arkansas and Massachusetts. 4 syllables in the limit for most people.

[quote] Aotearoa is not the fucking Maori name you pig ignorant fucks.

Fun facts:

[quote] New Zealand is one of the last major landmasses settled by humans. Radiocarbon dating, evidence of deforestation[32] and mitochondrial DNA variability within Māori populations suggest that Eastern Polynesians first settled the New Zealand archipelago between 1250 and 1300,

[quote] Aotearoa is often translated as 'land of the long white cloud') is the current Māori name for New Zealand. It is unknown whether Māori had a name for the whole country before the arrival of Europeans; Aotearoa originally referred to just the North Island. Māori had several traditional names for the two main islands, including Te Ika-a-Māui ('the fish of Māui') for the North Island and Te Waipounamu ('the waters of greenstone') or Te Waka o Aoraki ('the canoe of Aoraki') for the South Island.

[quote] Early European maps labelled the islands North (North Island), Middle (South Island) and South (Stewart Island / Rakiura). In 1830, mapmakers began to use "North" and "South" on their maps to distinguish the two largest islands, and by 1907 this was the accepted norm.

[quote][bold] The New Zealand Geographic Board discovered in 2009 that the names of the North Island and South Island had never been formalised, and names and alternative names were formalised in 2013. This set the names as North Island or Te Ika-a-Māui, and South Island or Te Waipounamu. For each island, either its English or Māori name can be used, or both can be used together. Similarly the Māori and English names for the whole country are sometimes used together (Aotearoa New Zealand), however this has no official recognition.[/bold]

[quote] In a hostile 1642 encounter, four of Dutch explorer Abel Tasman's crew members were killed, and at least one Māori was hit by canister shot. Europeans did not revisit New Zealand until 1769, when British explorer James Cook mapped almost the entire coastline.

So it appears the name change would be perfectly legal, since none of its current names have any official recognition.

[quote] Mt. McKinley was changed to Mt. Denali, both 3 syllables

I don't know why people insist on putting "Mount" in front of native names.

It's just DENALI. The word itself has its own meaning. Putting "Mount" in front of Denali, changes that meaning.

[quote] The Koyukon Athabaskans who inhabit the area around the mountain have for centuries referred to the peak as Dinale or Denali. The name is based on a Koyukon word for "high" or "tall".

Same thing with "Mount Fuji." Its name is actually Fujisan.

[quote] Japanese speakers refer to the mountain as "Fuji-san". This "san" is not the honorific suffix used with people's names, such as Watanabe-san, but the Sino-Japanese reading of the character yama (山, "mountain") used in Sino-Japanese compounds. If I have to put it in terms your little brain would understand, it would be like calling Madonna, Mrs. Madonna. See how stupid that sounds?

It's just... Madonna.

I LOVE that the West is focusing on stupid shit like this. LOVE IT.

[...]

[quote] What is "holding us back" is the ludicrous belief that Western civilization is somehow the cause of everyone's "misfortune", that without it, the "oppressed" would have been and been able to progress unfettered

Not EVERYONE, just people of color. I’d like to add women, but the majority of white women, then and now, buy into the white supremacy narrative. You don’t know what would have happened had the Europeans left Africa and Asia alone. Maybe they would have prospered, maybe not. But they weren’t allowed to decide for themselves, we’re they? And by the time they decolonized those continents, they plundered most of the resources and cash.

So we will never really know.

[quote] the majority of white women, then and now, buy into the white supremacy narrative.

What are you saying?

Land of the Long WHITE Cloud.

Whiteness: it wounds.

Try again, Maori people.

Will no one think of the moa?

Ah… this takes me back to 2016.

Simpler times…

[quote] since the country doesn't technically have an official name.

Huh? "New Zealand" is just a nick name?

r76 Its the name by long usage, but no one when the country was getting set up no one bothered to have a vote on "what should we call ourselves?" because everyone (by which I mean white settlers and European mapmakers) were already calling the place New Zealand for over a century by that point. I doubt most countries technically have an "official" name now I think about it.

[quote]And by the time they decolonized those continents, they plundered most of the resources and cash.

Are you saying that Africa no longer has resources. The white man packed it all up and left with it?

And sub-Saharan Africa didn't have cash before white men showed up. Stop being ridiculous. Many of these countries threw out colonizers 70 years ago. They just continue to have corrupt politicians and ignorant, superstitious populations.

It must take a lot of patience to have to pretend to give a fuck what Natives think. Sure, it’s horrible what happened to them throughout history, but sheesh.

r23 Aotearoa (pronounced [aɔˈtɛaɾɔa] in Māori and /ˌaʊtɛəˈroʊ. ə/ in English; often translated as 'land of the long white cloud') is the current Māori name for New Zealand.

[quote]I LOVE that the West is focusing on stupid shit like this. LOVE IT.

Well, the Chinese and Russians fucking love it.

Maybe they could shorten it to whatever "white cloud" is in Maori? A proposition to change the name of a small, relatively irrelevant country to something so difficult to pronounce is not serious. It seems kind of pointless because China is in the middle of economically colonizing New Zealand, so it will probably have a Chinese name in 50 years anyway.

White Cloud = Kapua Ma

New Zealand = Aotearoa

I don't think that is any better.

R65 is 1000% correct but that has never stopped Ugly Anscher before.

She’s kinda what Diana Vreeland would have looked like if she hadn’t shaved her beard.

[quote] You don’t know what would have happened had the Europeans left Africa and Asia alone.

Considering that Africa had a big Headstart over the “west“ why didn’t they develop things like written language or the wheel or weapons?? Thus making them easy to be colonized? Seems like it was pretty clear they were pretty far behind for quite a long time

Um … how will this affect the production of future Hobbit movies?

The answer, r86, is that countries at roughly the same latitude as Mesopotamia were able to import the crops and domesticate farm animals needed to develop agriculture and therefore have enough food to develop civilization. People in different climates had to remain hunter-gatherers to survive.

I think of NZ as Australia’s kid sister. Kind of like how Canada is to the US, Belgium to France, Ireland to England, Austria to Germany, etc.

[quote] how will this affect the production of future Hobbit movies?

They already killed the golden goose. No Māori production money nohow.

Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ Series Exiting New Zealand: Season 2 to Film in United Kingdom. The New Zealand Herald newspaper called Amazon’s exit a “tourism nightmare,” and everyone is pointing fingers over who’s to blame.

New Zealand is very strict about COVID protocols, famously entering lockdown after just ONE positive COVID case was discovered in the country. Some speculate that Amazon left because it was too difficult to produce the show when the Covid measures were this strict.

I think naming a country “Phil” would be so chill. Probably get a bunch of tourists just for that.

It's always instructive, when someone proposes a progressive change, to see an army of dickheads struggle and fail to come up with real arguments against it, because they always resort to complaining that the change won't solve this other social problem they have identified, even though the change wasn't meant to solve that other problem and no-one ever claimed it did.

R11, champion of white people, has never set foot in New Zealand.

[quote] someone proposes a progressive change

"Progressive change" i.e .empty symbolism that addresses no actual real world issues.

R94, please explain in more detail how this name change proposal is stopping you from doing all the work to help abused Maori women that you otherwise would have done?

[quote]Considering that Africa had a big Headstart over the “west“ why didn’t they develop things like written language

Africans have had written language since 5000 BC. There are over 700,000 manuscripts from Timbuktu alone. They also used various forms of Arabic.

[quote]or the wheel

Africans knew of the wheel before colonization. It didn't catch on because ... they needed horses. The thing that pulls things wheels are attached to?

The wheel and horses go hand in hand in history and Africa has always had problems with horses. Many early ones were killed off by a virus. There is the Namib Desert Horse but it's feral.

[quote]or weapons??

They had weapons? Do you mean guns? The Chinese invented guns and accidentally invented gunpowder. The Africans knew about guns long before colonization. The Arabs had them.

All of your questions could, strangely, be answered by the game Civilization. People made things first because they had access to resources other places didn't or they had (as someone pointed out with the equator) access to environments that other people didn't.

Basically you're saying R96 that sub-Saharan Africans got their written language and the wheel from Arabs. who colonized Africa way before Euros did.

[quote] Considering that Africa had a big Headstart over the “west“ why didn’t they develop things like written language or the wheel or weapons?? Thus making them easy to be colonized? Seems like it was pretty clear they were pretty far behind for quite a long time

My understanding has always been that civilizations that developed in "middle climates," also had the most advanced technology.

Something about how cold weather motivated their ingenuity, in terms of food and housing and clothing.

Notice that climates in the far north were less advanced, as were those in the far south. In the north, their focus was on survival. In the south, the also merely existed to survive.

Whereas in the middle climates, civilizations like Europeans, Aztecs in Mexico, Chinese, etc. experienced both warm and cold climates. So during the warmer months they could prepare for the colder months, by inventing things.

It's a pretty simplistic explanation, but that's what I've heard before.

Please, please, please start a trend of tattoo soul patches on wealthy white girls.

[quote] Notice that climates in the far north were less advanced, as were those in the far south. In the north, their focus was on survival. In the south, the also merely existed to survive.... It's a pretty simplistic explanation, but that's what I've heard before.

Some Dlers sound like they've never left their assisted living facilities before.

Of course, at the root of it all, the British moved on in and did their dastardly deeds. Where there is conflict and oppression, look to see that the shitty Brits were there.

Do Maorian men have large cocks?

[quote]The Africans knew about guns long before colonization. The Arabs had them.

Which both the Muslims and Africans used to devastating effect to pursue the slave trade.

R101 greedy and shitty.

@ R101

[quote]Of course, at the root of it all, the British moved on in and did their dastardly deeds.

R101 Uh, no. The "root of it all" is tribalism and Islam, which existed for over a millenia before the British rucked up.

[quote]The Arabs have always been there, and they essentially moved on to a "vacant lot"

R65 Muslims were conquerors, occupiers and colonizers. They most certainly were not "always there". Neither was it a "vacant lot" when Muslim conquerors rucked up. The Romans EXPELLED the Jews from their country, taking them into slavery.

[quote]both the Arabs and the Jews are part of the 12 tribes of Israel

R65 Uh, no, Arabs are not part of the 12 tribes of Israel. The sole "relation" is via Ishmael, Avraham's son via Hagar. You might want to look up WHO the 12 tribes of Israel are before posting ludicrous nonsense. "Arabs" is a misnomer, a Western-invented term. The only Arabs are those from the Arabian peninsula.

^^^^ millennium, not millennia ^^^^

New Zealand sounds so cool. Where is Old Zealand?

R108. It’s a nice place.

This is what happens when a handful of losers who cling to identity issues in an attempt to make their lives meaningful, then force their psychosis upon the rest of society. You can see it manfesting everywhere these days.

[quote] who cling to identity issues

And most of them are on welfare payments.

It's too long. Shorten it to, for example, "Aotea" (A-Oh-Tee-Ah, A-Oh-Tay-Ah) or Tearoa (Tee-Ah-Roh-Ah, Tay-Ah-Roh-Ah)

^ Sacrilege! Our sacred curses be upon you!

We slit your throat and take off your head.

Ok, you get the name change, but we get this flag.

R97 Ethiopia was not colonised by Arabs and its written language, Amharic, is not derived from Arabic, though they are both Semitic languages;

Not that I think you actually want to find out.

Fernland

What’s all this about Chairman Mao moving from China to New Zealand and trying start a new Maoist party?

[quote][R97] Ethiopia was not colonised by Arabs and its written language, Amharic, is not derived from Arabic, though they are both Semitic languages;

Ethiopia is not Sub-Saharan Africa. North Africa(e.g. Ancient Egypt) has always been way more advanced than the rest of the continent that is always blaming the "evil" white man for all their problems.

^^^ Mate where do you think the Sahara desert actually is?

"Mate" what do you think the word "Sub" means? as in Sub-Saharan, as in the countries BELOW the Saharan desert. The ones who had no written language and are still majorly fucked up even AFTER the "colonizers" left.... at least the European ones.

MAORI, I am out of control!

[quote]Ethiopia was not colonised by Arabs

R115 Yes it was. One of the oldest mosques in existence is in Ethiopia.

R119, which begs the question, where do you think Ethiopia is?

^^ I meant that for R20.

R120!

[quote] Do Maorian men have large cocks?

r102 Same size as Mexicans.

R126 what does that mean? yes or no?

What happened to Old Zealand?

Even famous Maori opera diva Dame Kiri Te Kanawa gets into feisty haka mode.

It’s simple. A is the first letter of the alphabet. When you’re filling out an online form and have to input the country, it’s a huge pain to scroll down to N on the pop up list.

Not as bad as scrolling down to U for United States however. Or worse, the time I was buying an airline ticket and neither United States nor America was listed. Looking at you Singapore Airlines.

They fixed it eventually.

r130 You know you can just save time by pressing the first letter and it'll take you to that section of the drop down menu rather than holding a full national referendum on changing your countries name?

R131 tell that to the woman with chin tats in OP's pic!

Yeah, that works sometimes

I think I like Zealand versus Zeeland.

No tourist has ever regretted going to New Zealand. But living there is another story. There are two cultures there - the Once Were Warriors one and the rugby-racing-beer one of the New Zealanders of European extraction. The houses are mould-ridden cracker boxes, service is non-existent, and prices are sky high.

Changing the name to something unpronounceable is not going to protect New Zealand from terrorism.

Has Lainie Kazan weighed in on this proposal?

I've noticed that (politically correct) New Zealanders have been using the name for a while now.

I've noticed that Woke New Zealanders have been using the name for a while now.

R122 Mosques sometimes spread without conquest by the Arabs. There's a few here in Ireland for example (no, Europe is not being overrun by Muslims, turn off the cable news).

There was a conflict between the Christian Ethiopian Empire and the Muslim Adal Sultanate, but the latter, rather than being Arabic, was based in the horn of Africa. Arabs never conquered it either.

R120 J try normally not to speak 'woke' but nothing screams 'mediocre white man' than a guy who loudly insists that the world's biggest desert is in a totally inaccurate location, scrollng past the map someone posted to try and educate him, so as to prevent his ideas about history being challenged.

OK, I get that people can be very attached to their racism, but at least try and grasp basic facts when they are presented to you.

Sorry, *3rd biggest desert if you count the Poles.

“This is New Zealand, love.”

Jacinda, you in danger gurl.

[quote] Mosques sometimes spread without conquest by the Arabs.

R140 Not in Africa, which was at the forefront of Muslim conquest, occupation and colonization. Muslims began conquest and occupation of Ethiopia, Somalia and Djibouti in the 8th century. Muslim on-going wars against Xtians for dominance in Ethiopia and across Africa (and Europe) continue to this day.

Well, you need to differentiate between 'Muslims' and 'Arabs'. Some of the wars you mention will have been led mainly by indigenous Africans, such as Berbers (formerly called Moors).

When Islam spread from the Arabian peninsula to the Horn of Africa, did it spread by force? I don't think this can be said conclusively. It might have spread as a result of trade and commerce, and it may also have spread as the result of its adoption by local rulers.

R146 Arabs were Muslims and Muslims were Arabs during the conquest, occupation and colonization of Africa. There was no difference/differentiation. And of course it spread by force, by the sword. That's why it's called conquest/occupation. Benign "trade" and "commerce" is historical revision.

R147 Are you sure about that? Which was the decisive battle which sealed the conquest of the Horn of Africa by the Arabs and when was it? Who was the first Arab ruler of the region? When were the Arab rulers overthrown?

I'm not sure we know enough about the time period to say..

[quote]'m not sure we know enough about the time period to say..

Perhaps YOU don't know enough about the period. The Muslim conquest, occupation and colonization of Africa, including its Horn, is well known. And whether the conquerors called themselves Berbers or Arabs, DAESH or Al Shabbab, the conquerors and their goal was and remains the same; submission to Islam.

R149 so you ought to be able to answer the questions i asked in R148 then.

They have great cock everyone!

R150 So you ought to be able to Google then, where the answers are readily available.

R152 Nah, I'm not smart enough for that, could you be a bro and just tell me?

[quote] No tourist has ever regretted going to New Zealand.

A very well-travelled Dutch friend did. "It's OK if you living in the Southern Hemisphere, but there's no point in anyone who lives in the Northern Hemisphere going there. You can see exactly the same scenery in Norway, and the following day be in a decent city." The Norwegians are also a shitload prettier. But the NZ Tourist Board is to be congratulated for their selling skills. The NZ of the tourist brochures only exists in patches -- and it's a very, very long drive between those patches.

R3 knowing native Dutch people irl, this has always made me a bit confused. Many of them still refer to their nation as ‘Holland’, some of them young people. Are ‘Holland’ & ‘The Netherlands’ simply interchangeable names? Ore is there a subtle distinction as to when each should be used?

R154 going back to about 2010, I spent about six months in NZ on a work permit. And I hated it.

Being that I come from a very pretty part of rural England (I’m lucky, I know), and at the the time had been living in a hilly forested part of Wales, topographically it didn’t seem much different to home. Same vibe of nothing-to-do, no-one to see, no-where to go, even with thousands of miles of empty space. NZ is just a more immense, much more dangerous, less habitable version. And to my shock, almost everyone I met in NZ was an even bigger and more rude cunt than the people at home—it’s difficult to out-cunt a Brit, we invented the practise.

Have never been back to the Antipodes and never well. Not worth the arduous trip and the massive expense. Now the Scandis on the other hand, I’d love to visit...

[quote] it’s difficult to out-cunt a Brit, we invented the practise

Accurate! I love British cuntitude, served ice cold.

Interesting, R156, as I get the impression they feel superior to "those crass Aussies"?

R158 yes, very much so. The settled people (I.e. non-Aboriginals) seem superior for no merit, but masquerading as if they’re laidback salt-of-the-Earth types. And they’re sour and dour, too. At least with a chill Aussie, you’re more or less guaranteed to have a bit of fun and enjoy some vibes.

Then, I suppose many of the emigre NZ population were from the U.K. originally, so it’s our fault if they are cunts. Funny how the Aussies let go of the attitude and the Kiwis didn’t, though—maybe it’s the amount of sun each get?

[quote] NZ is just a more immense, much more dangerous, less habitable version

Can you explain the "much more dangerous" part?

You've aroused my curiosity.

[quote] Funny how the Aussies let go of the attitude and the Kiwis didn’t, though—maybe it’s the amount of sun each get?

It's definitely the weather.

Australia is sunny and warm, with lots of beautiful beaches.

New Zealand is cold and rainy.

R24, R38, etc ...

Do the Maori still eat people like in the olden days? That would be a good population control measure.

I find the accent the most annoying of all anglophone accents.