Question of trans etiquette
Yesterday I was waiting at the window at my coffee shop in Portland (you cannot go into the shop because of COVID), but order through a little intercom and wait for them to bring out your drink after you place your order. A 6' 2" broad-shouldered person, in a shirt and short shorts with tiny rainbows patterned all over them, walked right up ahead of someone else in line to the intercom. I said to the tall person (whose back was to me), "Sir, excuse me, but I think you stepped in front of this man behind you." The person turned around and I saw they had one long braid on the other side of their head I couldn't see from behind. They said angrily, "I already called in my order!" I apologized, and thought that was that.
As they were leaving with their order, they turned to me and said, again angrily, "Also: this is Portland--you should know better here than to assume someone's gender!" I apologized again immediately. They glared at me like they wanted me to argue with them, but when they saw I wasn't going to (they were bigger than I was, and looked like a crazy person), they turned their heel on me and left.
How should I have addressed them, then, since their back was to me? "Hey, you at the window!"? "Hey, tall person!"?
by Anonymous | reply 191 | September 27, 2021 1:50 AM
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The correct form of address is, “hey, them.”
by Anonymous | reply 4 | September 12, 2021 9:23 PM
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So "Hey Cunt" is out of the question now?
by Anonymous | reply 5 | September 12, 2021 9:26 PM
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Why don't you just call them "fucking freak" OP? Just be your true awful self.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | September 12, 2021 9:27 PM
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IT's obviously not a genuine question but 'excuse me' would have done.
I never use 'sir' or 'ma'am', to use either of those words here would mark you out as extremely old-fashioned.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | September 12, 2021 9:28 PM
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Calling in an order doesn't mean you get to bypass the line. Since Covid I've noticed people working in food service are increasingly cracking down on this kind of behavior.
To answer your question, just say "excuse me" without using an honorific.
No apology needed though, you did nothing wrong and this guy cut the line.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | September 12, 2021 9:29 PM
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R8 Fuck indulging their delusion.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | September 12, 2021 9:34 PM
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As R7 says, why would the act of getting someone’s attention need to refer to their gender in the first place?
Also the American way of using ‘sir’ and ‘ma’am’ I’ve always found 1) extreeeeeemely old fashioned and 2) subservient in the dynamic. Hates it.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | September 12, 2021 9:36 PM
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r7 I am in my late 30s and I still use sir/ma'am if I need to get a stranger's attention in a hurry, like if they're getting off the train and they've left something behind.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | September 12, 2021 9:38 PM
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Where there are transwomen, male privilege is never far behind.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | September 12, 2021 9:40 PM
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I'm not even sure how you pronounce 'ma'am'.
'Ma'am as in ham'? But I've also heard it pronounced closer to 'mum'.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | September 12, 2021 9:40 PM
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You should have said, "You looka likka man!" in your Mrs. Swan voice, then giggled.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | September 12, 2021 9:41 PM
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“Hey, you fat whore!” That’s gender neutral, and always appropriate!
by Anonymous | reply 15 | September 12, 2021 9:41 PM
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Gigantor works for a tall broad person, Pipsqueak for a short slender person, Beanpole for tall and slender, or Butterball for short and fat.
Yes, R13, Ma'am rhymes with ham - at least everywhere I have lived in the US.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | September 12, 2021 9:42 PM
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OP committed LITERAL VIOLENCE!!!!
by Anonymous | reply 17 | September 12, 2021 9:44 PM
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OP, If the person looked like a man, you were correct to say "Sir." Don't fall into the Pronoun Trap. When enough people refuse to go along with this bullshit, "they" will get over it.
by Anonymous | reply 19 | September 12, 2021 9:51 PM
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Do you just assume their height, bitch?
by Anonymous | reply 20 | September 12, 2021 10:01 PM
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Darling. Toots. Honey. Sweetie Darling.
All of these would suffice.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | September 12, 2021 10:25 PM
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[quote] I never use 'sir' or 'ma'am', to use either of those words here would mark you out as extremely old-fashioned.
The horror!!
by Anonymous | reply 22 | September 12, 2021 10:27 PM
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R10 I hate "sir" and "ma'am" too and refuse to use them. I've never understood why I have to lower myself to show respect. I cringe when I'm watching a movie and a grown adult calls their adult boss Mr. last name.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | September 12, 2021 10:33 PM
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Why not simply, “Excuse Me! Excuse Me!”?
by Anonymous | reply 24 | September 12, 2021 10:49 PM
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[quote] I hate "sir" and "ma'am" too and refuse to use them. I've never understood why I have to lower myself to show respect. I cringe when I'm watching a movie and a grown adult calls their adult boss Mr. last name.
I see that we have... issues.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | September 12, 2021 10:53 PM
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The violence. It is LITERAL.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | September 12, 2021 11:10 PM
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I thought outrageously entitled and hair trigger MTF behavior was a feverish Datalounge fantasy until I moved back to Portland two years ago.
by Anonymous | reply 27 | September 12, 2021 11:21 PM
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r27, there are fewer trans people in Portland than this person I met at the coffee store would suggest, but even so, there are a number--probably more per capita than most major US cities excepting only SF/the Bay Area.
The ones who genuinely are trans--that is, who genuinely feel gender dysmorphia (which is a real thing)--usually actively try to look as much as they can like the gender they feel they truly are.
I normally go out of my way to avoid getting entangled with people who just dress bizarrely and look like insane people (like this person at the coffee shop), because in my experience they can become irrational and even violent (which they enjoy doing--they love to pick a fight). Had I seen from the beginning this person was wearing a long Renata Adler braid to one side as well as the dirty rainbow-patterned hot pants (just from the latter, and given their hairy men's legs, I assumed it was a homeless gay man), I never would have said a word to them about cutting in line.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | September 13, 2021 12:34 AM
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The gender they feel they feel they are .... oh Good God ..... There are two genders, male and female. Trans isn’t a thing... it is psychosis.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | September 13, 2021 1:05 AM
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Just say "hey asshole you need a shave."
by Anonymous | reply 30 | September 13, 2021 1:31 AM
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This is what causes transdeath, to misgender, don't you know that. I personally look past them, don't interact. if someone is dressed as you described I just avoid, avoid, avoid. They are looking for attention. Any kind. Sometimes I feel this is what trans is all about. Look at me!! Pay attention to me!! To deprive them of their personal oxygen is the best way to handle it I have found.
There is a trans MTF locally who loves to make sure to use the ladies in the local supermarket where he works. A few women would see him heading to the ladies & say loudly to each other let's go to Dunkin donuts for a piss. He stopped that shit really quick. No one was giving him any attention.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | September 13, 2021 1:51 AM
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The whole thing is about attention and control of others.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | September 13, 2021 3:11 AM
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Funny how the percentage per capita of women who are murdered everyday is far greater than the trans, but that is conveniently overlooked.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | September 13, 2021 3:12 AM
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If you felt the need to address the person, simply say "excuse me" or "pardon me" and not include the sir/ma'am portion.
Or, if you wanted to be very passive/aggressive, you could use "excuse me, friend" as that would have plausible deniability on whether you were actually being friendly.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | September 13, 2021 3:17 AM
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I wish we used “mate” here in the U.S.
Ok I am ignorant- is mate just used for men or can women be your mates too? I don’t want to offend any MTF, cough, women.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | September 13, 2021 3:31 AM
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R28 wow you’re so dull. You’re like a boring straight person.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | September 13, 2021 3:34 AM
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Saying “ma’am” or “sir” doesn’t mean you’re “lowering yourself”. What an odd idea.
Do you have to debase yourself to show respect? If you debase someone else do you suppose it elevates you?
Using someone’s preferred pronouns is also a sign of respect. Is that debasing yourself, too?
by Anonymous | reply 37 | September 13, 2021 3:45 AM
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R37 that’s a bit insincere. Everyone knows that ‘sir’ has a power dynamic in a master / sub way. I would never call anyone sir. And ma’am just sounds so ancient haha.
by Anonymous | reply 38 | September 13, 2021 4:02 AM
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R5, I find that using cunt for all genders is WOKE.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | September 13, 2021 4:23 AM
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r38 sees problems where there aren't any as a demented pasttime.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | September 13, 2021 6:19 AM
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R41 it’s not a problem or a pastime of mine, I just think it’s outdated and weird. Stupid American cultural tradition. Correct me if I’m wrong but the use of ‘sir’ has some not so savoury historical context in US culture too?
by Anonymous | reply 42 | September 13, 2021 6:40 AM
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I propose three pronouns that would solve all the problems. You get to choose one.
He
She
Fucker
Excuse me, fucker, but you cut the line. See, works fine.
by Anonymous | reply 43 | September 13, 2021 6:48 AM
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She was being a cunt.
You should have kicked her in the balls.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | September 13, 2021 6:51 AM
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You should have asked, 'How do you prefer to be addressed dickhead or cunt?'
by Anonymous | reply 45 | September 13, 2021 6:57 AM
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Let's make our own pronoun since doing that is all the rage nowadays.
Dick + Cunt = Dunt
by Anonymous | reply 46 | September 13, 2021 6:59 AM
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Was she fat? Then "Gunt" or Hey, gunty!"
by Anonymous | reply 47 | September 13, 2021 9:41 AM
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Hey, you, the Rocksteady Crew!
by Anonymous | reply 48 | September 13, 2021 11:50 AM
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How about "Hey...fucker at the window...there's a line here!"
by Anonymous | reply 49 | September 13, 2021 12:31 PM
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T-etiquette...as if such a thing exists.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | September 13, 2021 12:35 PM
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“I don’t mean to be rude, but you do realize how ridiculous you sound? I mean you make Rose McGowan look normal!”
by Anonymous | reply 51 | September 13, 2021 12:39 PM
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Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that we only call white people “sir”.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | September 13, 2021 1:06 PM
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[quote]"Also: this is Portland--you should know better here than to assume someone's gender!"
Seems to me "They" was the one assuming someone's gender. Mine.
Also: what's Portland got to do with it? Would it have been a suitable reply to say, "Sorry, I'm just visiting. I normally live on Planet Earth."?
(I put "They" in quotes because morally IDGAF but grammatically it offends me. The argument that I would EVER write "they" instead of "he or she" anytime the gender of the person was unknown is profoundly wrong, and does literal violence to me, the owner of a degree in English.)
by Anonymous | reply 53 | September 13, 2021 1:21 PM
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R53, don't you love the argument the T activists make about the singular "they" having always been a thing? They fail to mention the part where it was used as a speaking/writing convenience when the sex of the person being referred to was unknown to the speaker or writer. It was not used to refer to the 6'3" obvious man with a mental illness who just cut the line.
OP, your only mistake was giving a shit what this man thought because he is insane.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | September 13, 2021 1:42 PM
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My pronouns are she and it or shit.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | September 13, 2021 1:58 PM
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[quote] the owner of a degree in English.)
I got me one of them too.
It ain’t mine, but I do have the degree.
by Anonymous | reply 56 | September 13, 2021 2:03 PM
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Look what this shit hath wrought.
They literally just added the bullshit second usage of "singular they" based on some T committee of the insanely woke. They're just going to pretend this is a real usage. Unbelievable.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 57 | September 13, 2021 2:11 PM
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[quote]How should I have addressed them
"Excuse me."
You're overcomplicating things to ... I don't know ... troll DL?
Aren't you tired, Miss Hilly?
by Anonymous | reply 58 | September 13, 2021 2:15 PM
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People say they want Florida or Texas to split off the Union. It really should be Portland. It really could be Portlandia then. And what a dirty little hell hole that would be in six months.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | September 13, 2021 2:34 PM
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Always puzzles me when people like R53 pick the 'they' factor as their hill to die on. Like this:
[quote]The argument that I would EVER write "they" instead of "he or she" anytime the gender of the person was unknown is profoundly wrong
Just makes no sense to me. What's profoundly wrong with a sentence like: "I heard that you had a great candidate for that job interview, they had great experience and references, are you going to offer them the job?"
Would you suggest that instead of saying "I don't know much about them, but the new CEO is meant to be a complete nightmare, I heard they sacked half the senior management team at their old company" you'd really, genuinely and truly say "I don't know much about him or her, but the new CEO is meant to be a complete nightmare, I heard he or she sacked half the senior management team at his or her old company?"
Because if you genuinely, truly, honestly would then you're a twat.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | September 13, 2021 3:08 PM
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Apparently you can get a whole degree in English without learning that language is a living thing and that usages change to reflect a changing society.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | September 13, 2021 3:16 PM
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R60 thinks that using undefined pronouns changes the world and, if you don't agree, then you're a twat for not unnecessarily changing the English language.
Twat, indeed. Kettle, meet twat.
by Anonymous | reply 62 | September 13, 2021 3:17 PM
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R35, “Mate” was always used between males, but is now often used by women as well. I would be cautious about shouting “mate” to someone who is transgender. You never know how they might want to present that day. They might kick your cunt in. Or they might not.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | September 13, 2021 3:22 PM
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Was that the Stumptown down by the river, OP? On 2nd or 3rd, I think? I love Stumptown. Almost alone in that whole desperately hip city, they give good service.
As to how to address a stranger, I really have no idea. The only people who have ever addressed me in Portland have wanted either money or a signature on their petition(s). I’ve learned that when you see a person looking directly at you and smiling, you just look for their clipboard and keep on moving because no way on earth is it friendliness.
I wish you luck. Portland people are so ridiculously prickly and fault-finding I can barely remember the interesting backwater it used to be before so many downtown stores were boarded up and the effort to clean up the vile graffiti was given up as a lost cause.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | September 13, 2021 3:36 PM
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I like the idea of saying "friend," but I don't know if I have the nerve to work that into my regular vocabulary or not.
Trans people are completely attention seeking. They're equal to people who bring dogs into malls. (Or maybe the bringing dogs into malls has stopped with covid. I haven't actually seen that recently.)
Changing the usage of they/them to singular is part of a slippery slope. Yes, a lot of people use it, but it's wrong. I went to art school in Philadelphia with a lot of people who said "drug" instead of "dragged." Are you people okay with that too? My dyslexic daughter used "drug" the other day and I corrected her immediately!
by Anonymous | reply 65 | September 13, 2021 4:01 PM
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OP, what are you the line police? I think you’re the problem here.
by Anonymous | reply 66 | September 13, 2021 4:02 PM
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Why is Cinesnatch a staunch trans defender? We can never pick apart their delusions, misogyny, and controlling behavior ( language and thought police) without C-snatch scolding and acting huffy.
And I don’t think we are mocking the gentle people who want to live their peaceful lives in their perceived, preferred gender.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | September 13, 2021 4:07 PM
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I will again say that Cinesnatch is brave to continually use his handle. I have stopped using mine because people seem to be nicer when you don't use it. I usually agree with what Cinesnatch has to say, but we did have an online tussle about the trans issue a few months back. I think some people really buy into this (the trans thing). My sister has a biology degree from Johns Hopkins. She's a burnout (is that the right term?) in Seattle, but not stupid. I can't have any kind of real conversations with her anymore, because she thinks I am simple for thinking that men are men and women are women. Look, I am a woman, but I don't go around feeling like a woman. I just feel like myself.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | September 13, 2021 4:16 PM
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Also, I am agree applaud OP for being the line police. I am too. It's a subtle form of either bullying, asserting dominance, or not caring at all about others. It is never okay unless it is unintentional. Line cutting must be in my top ten pet peeves.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | September 13, 2021 4:21 PM
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Oh shit. What did I just write there? ^
by Anonymous | reply 71 | September 13, 2021 4:23 PM
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R70 - and all you have to do is say - oh, excuse me, I have a phone order, I believe it's ready.
Not hard to do. I would never feel so entitled than to skip an entire line without providing an explanation.
Many places now have separate lines/areas for phone orders. Although it would never occur to me to take the time to call up ahead for a cup of coffee.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | September 13, 2021 4:47 PM
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[quote] Was that the Stumptown down by the river, OP?
It wasn't Stumptown. It was the Seven Virtues Coffee Shop on NE 60th and Glisan.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | September 13, 2021 5:29 PM
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[quote]usages change to reflect a changing society.
No, they don't.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | September 13, 2021 5:54 PM
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Next time just say, "Hey, pussycat."
by Anonymous | reply 75 | September 13, 2021 5:55 PM
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Could somebody explain to me what feeling like the opposite sex is like? If you're a man but feel that you're a woman what does that feel like? That you want to conform to stereotypical behavior of that sex? You want to go around in dresses and makeup and high heels? Considering the overwhelming majority don't have their genitals removed what exactly makes them feel their a woman? Doesn't it just reinforce gender stereotypes which I though everyone wants to get away from. Longhair and lipstick. This is what defines a woman?
by Anonymous | reply 76 | September 13, 2021 6:01 PM
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[quote]It was the Seven Virtues Coffee Shop on NE 60th and Glisan.
Thanks! I was about to ask. I was going to guess Coffeehouse Five on N Killingsworth and Albina (they have the intercom setup too).
[quote]this person was wearing a long Renata Adler braid to one side as well as the dirty rainbow-patterned hot pants
Thanks also for this perfect description - I'll be sure to keep my eye out
by Anonymous | reply 78 | September 13, 2021 6:03 PM
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They wouldn't do that to Caitlyn on her morning coffee runs in Malibu.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 80 | September 13, 2021 8:04 PM
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R76 you'll notice MTFs always dress slutty as well, like $5 whores (which they probably are). It's a fetish.
by Anonymous | reply 81 | September 13, 2021 9:34 PM
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I just call everyone "Sweetie", "Honey", or "Darling".
by Anonymous | reply 82 | September 13, 2021 9:54 PM
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I’ve been getting timed out a lot this last week (which is fine; I don’t care).
I wonder if I start espousing anti-trans/race-baiting/anti-abortion rhetoric all the time, if I’ll get timed out as much.
Do people in this thread get timeouts very often?
by Anonymous | reply 83 | September 13, 2021 9:59 PM
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R83 Do people ever not accuse you of being a flaming asshole?
by Anonymous | reply 84 | September 13, 2021 10:23 PM
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Cinesnatch is a deranged weirdo who has shared his transsexual fantasies/fetishes (having sex with a transsexual AND being a transsexual). He also chastises gay men for not being open minded enough to have sex with transsexuals.
This has been a public service announcement.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | September 13, 2021 10:36 PM
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Hi R84. Yes, there are level-headed people on DL who like me and/or understand me.
There are others here who write me off. They are generally trolls. A few are regulars who think I take the trolls too seriously.
Also, R85, I do not endorse having sex with anyone you don't want to have sex with.
But, keep spreading lies like R85 and/or attacking me all you want by calling me a flaming asshole. I know you find my honest threatening.
This behaviour says more about the two of you who cower anonymously behind your computers. Chances are you're fat, ugly, and/or have a small dick (if you're a man). I find comfort in knowing I don't fall in any of those categories. ;)
: shrug :
by Anonymous | reply 86 | September 13, 2021 11:31 PM
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Exactly, R76. That's why it's completely fucking regressive.
Hey, Cinesnatch, answer me these:
Why is transgender okay but transracial isn't?
What is the definition of woman?
As usual, the most outspoken defenders of the Transtapo will never, ever answer these two simple questions that I ask in every T thread.
My answers:
Neither is okay or real.
A woman is an adult human with XX chromosomes.
Your turn.
by Anonymous | reply 87 | September 14, 2021 12:05 AM
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I used to go to Seven Virtues when I lived by there. Just wanted to mention that. Ha ha. In fact, I’d get coffee there before seeing my wackadoodle therapist around the corner. She was helpful at first but after a few months, I was paying for her to talk about her chronic Lyme disease.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | September 14, 2021 12:07 AM
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I have R87 on Ignore. But, I got curious and checked my Ignore List. There is someone in this thread whose opinions line up with mine on multiple issues except this one. They addressed me by name and appear to be asking the same questions they asked in the recent E. Page thread (I forget the name he changed to).
I believe there are people out there who were genuinely born in a physical body that does not match up biologically to who they are. I believe this because biology isn't always black and white. Neither is sexual orientation. Intersex people are born, as well. By and large, males who are born male are male. Same goes for female. As far as sexual orientation, I think a lot more people than we realise are oriented to be bi, but largely have a preference for the opposite sex.
Has this been taken "too far" lately in our culture with all the stuff about binary, etc? Perhaps. Do I think there is mental illness involved with some people who make claims that they fall outside of the norms? Yes. I think there are some who identify outside of the "norm" in part because it's a political choice. Do I think MTF competing against biological females is "unfair"? Perhaps. Do I think it's a legitimate concern the some kids begin hormone therapy and have surgery before they're ready? Perhaps.
But, by and large, I tend to believe those who say they were born in a biological body they don't identify with sex/gender-wise. I grew up in the 80s and I volunteered with various LGBT organisations in the 90s. I've met trans persons and I've heard their stories and what they have been through. I've listened to a lot of shit sandwiches these people have been dealt with in life and would have never "chosen" this much more difficult path to go down.
I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand/empathise with. Feel free to disagree with me. But, I'm tired of the arrogance and ignorance that the anti-trans posters perpetuate here on the DL. If this is the hill you want to die on, have at it. But, life is short and there are more important battles to fight IMO.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | September 14, 2021 12:26 AM
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If I used the word “they” in my response to my that witch, you can bet your ass I would have used air quotes.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | September 14, 2021 12:31 AM
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Now, that I can see R87's comment and I can see that I was correct in predicting what it was.
Honestly, to me, from the way you talk about this particular issue, it sounds like you live on the internet and need to get out more.
But, I agree with your stances on abortion, vaccines, pandemic masks, and talk about these issues with a great deal of sound rationale. I believe I have been flexible and openminded as to the way I talk about trans issues when looking at them from both sides. On the trans issue, you sound inexplicably defiant, and not someone I can have a level-headed conversation with.
I have R90 (which does posted) on Ignore as well and my Ignore List isn't loading right now so I can't look up the comment until this posts.
by Anonymous | reply 91 | September 14, 2021 12:33 AM
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Too bad the North American Native tradition of Two Spirited people was not adopted. It is a type of third gender and respected. Although I have read that warriors who partnered up with Two Spirited men were mildly joked at.
by Anonymous | reply 93 | September 14, 2021 12:35 AM
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[quote]Why is transgender okay but transracial isn't? What is the definition of woman?
To answer these questions, I had to look up transracial. I don't think they're the same thing. Legitimate transgender feel they were born in the wrong body and often face discrimination for any expression of that. This "transracial" thing--as far as I can understand--is also supposed to be about being born in the wrong body. The only problem with that it is minorities who largely bear the brunt of racism, so if someone white is claiming to be "transracial," they're not going to incur any kind of racism in venues where they are biologically part of the majority. So, this is not an apples to applies scenario on one very important level. But, I also don't believe "transracial" is a far reaching phenomenon and bringing it up obfuscates the conversation more than anything.
The second question (What is the definition of a woman?) is designed to be black and white. Like, it's suggested in my previous comment, most women are born with female anatomy. But, there are exceptions. I've met legitimate MTF transpeople who are intelligent, kind, and good human beings. I don't believe they would have chosen their path in life unless they believed they were born in the wrong body. Life is hard enough as it is.
This goes back to a common theme that was discussed with gays in the 1980s. and 1990s: why would most people CHOOSE to be gay. They wouldn't. They would CHOOSE to be straight, because it's easier. No one wants MORE problems and challenges to face. Life is hard enough as it is. What this world needs is more empathy (which is rare on DL, but I guess that's par for course). Do I think there are those who have taken the issue to absurd extremes? Yes. But they are part of the minority. And, thanks to social media, they get amplified on the internet (and the DL) and misrepresent the trans community as a whole.
I have F93 on Ignore as well.
by Anonymous | reply 94 | September 14, 2021 12:49 AM
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This is just going to keep going around in circles.
Cinesnatch, you sound like you really care about people and want to do the right thing. You sound like a serious liberal. Most of us are down with that. But how can someone feel like a woman? How can someone feel like a man? It just doesn't mean anything. Does feeling like a man mean someone who flys into a rage and throws shit around and yells in a deep voice? Does feeling like a woman mean getting strangely emotionally sometimes and not realizing why until later? That's really all I can think of.
by Anonymous | reply 95 | September 14, 2021 1:01 AM
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taking Portland off my retirment list
by Anonymous | reply 96 | September 14, 2021 1:21 AM
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"Toots" is gender-neutral and expresses the DL spirit.
"Hey, toots, no cutting the line!"
"Don't you DARE assume my gender!"
"I'll do what I like, toots!"
by Anonymous | reply 97 | September 14, 2021 2:01 AM
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Thanks R95. I would have written you earlier but I was given a timeout. Seemed to be a quick one though (thanks Muriel!). The mouthier I’ve gotten lately, the more timeouts I’ve been given!
Anyway, all I know is that if I were trans, I would want the support of my community, not people criticising my very essence/existence. I treat others how I would want to be treated. Legitimate trans people have had to fight for decades to be recognised, just as the gays have. And they continue to fight.
Like I said, I had trans acquaintances when I volunteered in AIDS hospice and elsewhere. I would want them to stand up for me, so I try to do what I can for them. I do wonder if the average DLer has even gotten to know a trans person and human level.
I can’t see R93 or R97, as I have them on Ignore.
by Anonymous | reply 98 | September 14, 2021 5:53 AM
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To be fair, the LGB community WAS supportive of Trans for decades. We did empathize with them.
However, in the past 10 years, shit has gone off the rails. People are no longer transitioning and just plopping on a wig and some lipstick and saying they're women. Teens and pre-teens are being given drugs to permanently change their bodies before their brains are developed to make such a decision.
Gays and lesbians have been accused of hatred and shamed into putting their needs aside and propping up Trans. They've tried to take over our history and claim that 2 men in dresses were the catalyst and the reason for gay rights.
This isn't the same group that gays and lesbians were supporting years ago. It has become an authoritarian cult that is damaging a lot of good will and young people's lives.
Are all trans this way? No. But there is NOT enough voices calling out when these people are wrong, being offensive and going too fucking far. So, yes, unfortunately, it becomes a blanket dislike of all trans when they start trampling over others' rights and identities.
They're not asking for support, they're asking for complete control and an unquestioning deference to their ideas and beliefs. Ain't nobody got time for that.
by Anonymous | reply 100 | September 14, 2021 3:34 PM
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Hi Cinesnatch and all, the argument that people don't do things to make their lives more difficult doesn't hold anymore either. People do all kinds of crazy things to draw attention to themselves and to make their lives more complicated, and, I would say, more difficult:
People bring dogs into malls
People dye their hair unnatural colors to get attention
People get facial tatoos
And so on. I, as an insecure young woman, did everything I could to make myself pretty. One can argue that mermaid hair is pretty, but bright Ronald McDonald hair? (And my favorite color is red). People now intentionally make themselves look unattractive. So yes, people do things to make their lives more difficult. People are nuts.
by Anonymous | reply 101 | September 14, 2021 4:26 PM
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Sorry, I can't stop posting. I also think that having a chill, uncomplicated life is no longer the goal for young people. Their goal is now to stand out. They are attention seeking, and do whatever they can to seem cool. Being gay or straight is no longer interesting (that's for old people!). Being bi like a rockstar isn't even good enough anymore. These people want to be different. (Unfortunately, it has become a trend, and now they're all the same.)
by Anonymous | reply 102 | September 14, 2021 4:47 PM
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Lol! Similar thing happened to me at Starbucks drive thru yesterday. Make voice took my order in drive thru. I ended by saying “thank you, Sir!” And I got a withering response:”I’m a ma’am, NOT a sir.”
Now if I had seen her when I ordered, I would have never said sir. But I was simply being nice and merry and thanking the person for taking my order.
I just don’t get the intensity behind the response. I’m sure there are a lot of assholes out there who want to trample on trans rights, but I ain’t one of them. If your voice sounds male and I can’t see you, I’m going to assume you’re male.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | September 14, 2021 4:58 PM
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I'm surprised she said I'm a ma'am. She must have been old.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | September 14, 2021 10:18 PM
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[quote]I believe this because biology isn't always black and white.
I beg to differ.
by Anonymous | reply 105 | September 15, 2021 7:40 AM
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Trannys are fucking hilarious. Now that it’s Fall, we should just say…”Trick or Treat”.
by Anonymous | reply 106 | September 15, 2021 9:56 AM
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Usually, its' a struggle to address them. Not because of confusion, but because I am pretend coughing into a napkin to disguise the fact that I am LMAO at how they look. God bless those of you who can keep a straight face. How do you do it? I recently saw a clip of Milton Berle in drag & I had that Eureka Moment thought that's it! At least Berle was doing it for laughs. Tragic they have no clue what a gift of laughter they are.
by Anonymous | reply 107 | September 15, 2021 12:52 PM
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You should've told them you loved their youtube video.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 108 | September 15, 2021 12:56 PM
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R102 - Amen - and that's because of social media, in my opinion. Gay or lesbian or bi isn't enough. Plus there's a lot of long-term content for trans people - the identification process, choosing the name, the start of treatments, people's reactions, starting the hormones, etc.
I honestly think for some of these people it is a way to make their boring lives interesting. Yeah - it's an uninformed opinion perhaps - but why else with this spike of cases the last 5-10 years?
On the other side, I also blame social media for spreading this and convincing people that their problems would be fixed if they become another gender.
by Anonymous | reply 109 | September 15, 2021 2:37 PM
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R86 "Lies"? We can all see your posting history, you fucking imbecile.
This is what you've said:
"I'll also add that I've fantasised about it before (both fucking an MTF and a man fucking me where I'm an MTF).
It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Open your mind, grow up, and stop spreading shit we don't need to hear. LIfe's short. Thanks."
These are your OWN words. You are literally a mentally ill, homophobic bisexual with a transsexual fetish.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 110 | September 16, 2021 2:49 AM
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[quote]These are your OWN words. You are literally a mentally ill, homophobic bisexual with a transsexual fetish.
Does fantasising about killing people make someone a murderer?
[quote]He also chastises gay men for not being open minded enough to have sex with transsexuals.
No I did not. Quoting me doesn't prove it either.
You're deranged. So to the Ignore List you go (if there's still room). Bye.
by Anonymous | reply 111 | September 16, 2021 2:55 AM
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R111 Fantasizing about killing people makes you a person who fantasizes about killing people. Fantasizing about being a transsexual and having sex with a transsexual makes you a transsexual fetishist. You are not very bright.
"Quoting me doesn't prove it either"
Yes it does. You told gay people that we needed to "open" our minds to the idea of engaging in sexual relations with transsexuals, aka you are pressuring gay people into having sex that we don't want. Again, you are not very bright.
"You're deranged. So to the Ignore List you go (if there's still room). Bye."
Nobody cares about you. Few things are more insufferable than some histrionic Cluster B dramatically announcing that he has blocked someone. N-o-b-o-d-y c-a-r-e-s.
by Anonymous | reply 115 | September 16, 2021 6:17 AM
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I love the “if there’s still room” comment. JFC, how many people do you have blocked? And why?
Anyone hear echoes?
by Anonymous | reply 117 | September 16, 2021 11:48 AM
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There are cool people on this site (some nice, some honest, some funny, some witty, etc), but I find I have to wade through a sea of assholes to get to them. So, yeah, I put the anti-trans, anti-Muslim, racists on block, so I don't have to deal with inundation of these jerks.
That is my experience. Yours is probably different, R117.
You can block up to 255 people/sock-puppets on here. And some of many (sock-puppets).
by Anonymous | reply 118 | September 16, 2021 11:53 AM
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*And some have many (sock-puppets).
by Anonymous | reply 119 | September 16, 2021 11:54 AM
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TERFs, Qs, Karens & Proud Hags, Boris and Irina, are distraught because their political ally and sex idol, Caitlyn, lost in California. Their intense hate and meanness makes them delusional, and they invade every DL thread they can seeking support from eldergays whom they also despise.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 120 | September 16, 2021 1:33 PM
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[quote]TERFs, Qs, Karens & Proud Hags, Boris and Irina, are distraught because their political ally and sex idol, Caitlyn, lost in California.
Wouldn't they all be celebrating Jenner's loss?
by Anonymous | reply 121 | September 16, 2021 1:40 PM
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Bruce getting slaughtered in the recall election is, dare I say it, *ahem*, LITERAL VIOLENCE.
by Anonymous | reply 122 | September 18, 2021 4:43 AM
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Well, it’s certainly not clitoral violence.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | September 18, 2021 4:45 AM
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Who the fuck blocks over 200 people??? Get a fucking grip.
by Anonymous | reply 124 | September 18, 2021 4:52 AM
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When you have racist, anti-trans users changing sock-puppets daily and you don't want to deal with their shit, the Ignore List piles up quickly.
by Anonymous | reply 125 | September 18, 2021 4:55 AM
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As they were leaving with their order, they turned to me and said, again angrily, "Also: this is Portland--you should know better here than to assume someone's gender!" I apologized again immediately. They glared at me like they wanted me to argue with them, but when they saw I wasn't going to (they were bigger than I was, and looked like a crazy person), they turned their heel on me and left.
OP, You had already lost when you used the ungrammatical pronoun "they" in order, I guess, not to offend.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | September 18, 2021 4:59 AM
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How about, "Excuse me, Your Royal Highness of Portlandia!"
by Anonymous | reply 127 | September 18, 2021 5:03 AM
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[quote]When you have racist, anti-trans users changing sock-puppets daily and you don't want to deal with their shit, the Ignore List piles up quickly.
They're not "changing sock puppets" - there are just increasing numbers of people who don't agree with you. Nobody is paying to have multiple accounts here. If you have to put over 200 people on ignore, perhaps YOU are the problem.
by Anonymous | reply 128 | September 18, 2021 5:33 AM
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[quote]They're not "changing sock puppets" - there are just increasing numbers of people who don't agree with you.
The troll who calls everyone who disagrees with him "ancient white fag" has multiple accounts. The troll who calls everyone "Boris" has multiple accounts. Stop gaslighting me and go fuck yourself.
[quote]Nobody is paying to have multiple accounts here.
Um, newsflash, you don't have to pay to have an account (or accounts) here.
How stupid are you?
by Anonymous | reply 129 | September 18, 2021 5:41 AM
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You're fucking insane and being such a delicate little flower that you have to ignore over 200 posters isn't something you should be happy to tell people about.
Oh, I'll make sure to create 100 more accounts to post from just to keep you happy in your little victim status.
by Anonymous | reply 130 | September 18, 2021 5:47 AM
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You gaslight about there not being multiple accounts for single users.
And you're stupid enough to believe everyone here pays for their account.
And, then, you ignore these facts when you're called out.
R130, You're obviously an idiot lol.
by Anonymous | reply 131 | September 18, 2021 5:51 AM
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People don't waste their time creating multiple accounts to call you out. For some reason you seem perpetually shocked that people here hate you and don't support trans. I can't imagine being so pathetic that I use up the 200+ limit on my ignore list. How do you even cope with real life??? You have no coping skills and if you can't deal with the anti-trans sentiment on here, then you are up for a world of pain the second you step out of your basement.
by Anonymous | reply 132 | September 18, 2021 5:57 AM
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Cinesnatch is a piece of shit and it's obvious that everyone who knows him thinks that too as he has no life beyond posting crap on DL.
by Anonymous | reply 133 | September 18, 2021 6:04 AM
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I find it funny that Cinesnatch is constantly complaining that everyone else is so intolerant, meanwhile he has over 200 posters on ignore. I have 8 posters on my ignore list.
by Anonymous | reply 134 | September 18, 2021 6:08 AM
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[quote]People don't waste their time creating multiple accounts to call you out.
Try reading comprehension.
[quote]How do you even cope with real life??? You have no coping skills and if you can't deal with the anti-trans sentiment on here
I cope just fine. The anti-trans vitriol is not in the real world.
[quote]basement.
Projection. Unlike you, I have a job and pay my own rent. Nice view as well.
by Anonymous | reply 135 | September 18, 2021 6:23 AM
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[quote]The anti-trans vitriol is not in the real world.
Nice try. But this proves that you live in a basement.
by Anonymous | reply 136 | September 18, 2021 6:31 AM
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No, the anti-trans shit-posting you see here on DL is not in the real world.
People have better things to do with their time. My friends don't have issues with transpersons, so they're seldom discussed, unless a trans is in the news for getting bashed, for example. Then, the discussion is about the lunacy of people who would hate transperson so badly, they act out violently.
I think I'm done with you. Sending you to Ignore List. Bye.
by Anonymous | reply 137 | September 18, 2021 6:35 AM
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[quote] [bold]A[/bold] 6' 2" broad-shouldered [bold]person[/bold]... The person...
Is certainly not "they" or "them".
by Anonymous | reply 138 | September 18, 2021 6:38 AM
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[quote] Sending you to Ignore List. Bye.
Oh, the irony!!!
by Anonymous | reply 139 | September 18, 2021 6:38 AM
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Cinesnatch, I just read your response at R94.
As are most of your responses, it's very thoughtful and I appreciate you taking the time to express your beliefs. I love your movie thread posts, btw!
I do find one thing interesting in your breakdown of transracialism: You seem to be most concerned with the experiential oppression a bio-minority (coined a new word!) feels from having grown up black/brown when compared to someone who identifies as transracial (specifically a minority) who, ostensibly, grew up white.
That's fine.
I empathize with your empathy!
But that doesn't really have anything to do with the person who actually feels transracial, does it? I am sure that person FEELS black or brown for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with a larger oppression. Or is being black/brown ONLY (or mostly) defined by the oppression that reality sustains? I don't think we should discount how a transracial minority person feels just because they didn't have the same experiences as a bio minority. That feels like were not respecting the wishes of the transracial minority person because of our concern for the bio minority person.
Further, if that's the case, can't (and don't) bio woman make the EXACT same claim against transwomen? Since a transwoman didn't have grow up with the systematic misogyny that bio women endured, does that discount their "trans" woman-ness in the same way you seem to discount, say, Rachel Dolezal's "trans" blackness?
It seems to me, based on your logic, both transgender and transracial have to be supported equally or dismissed equally. Otherwise, the logic doesn't make sense.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | September 18, 2021 6:58 AM
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How about "Hellllooooo BITCH!" in your best gay voice. Flick of the wrist, eyeroll, and hissss must follow.
by Anonymous | reply 141 | September 18, 2021 8:25 AM
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TERFs are 🧙♂️witches🧙♀️with no magical ✨ powers. They get what the devil 😈 allows. Being piggy 🐖 and mean🐍 is not the way to go. See Buddha 👀 exorcist and rid the fire 🔥 from the ❤.
by Anonymous | reply 142 | September 18, 2021 10:35 AM
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Cinesnatch just added R140 to his ignore list for making sense.
They need to tweak the ignore feature so that when you ignore someone, your posts also disappear from their view. Can you imagine the attention whore that is Cinesnatch frantically unblocking everyone because they could no longer read his shit as long as they are on his ignore list?
by Anonymous | reply 143 | September 18, 2021 2:53 PM
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I am a kitty cat! Bring me saucers of cream! Bring me tasty stinky canned food! Clean my litter box! Humor my delusion, or I shall scratch you, and bite you, and pee on your bed!
by Anonymous | reply 144 | September 18, 2021 5:24 PM
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R108 The guy is obviously a violent bully--I don't care whether he prefers to be called "Ma'am" or not. She should have called the police the minute he kicked the merchandise. The fucking sociopath has the nerve to violently intimidate a woman just trying to do her job and get through her day, and then he thinks HE has the right to pose as the victimized one?
by Anonymous | reply 145 | September 18, 2021 6:17 PM
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[quote] Hi [R84]. Yes, there are level-headed people on DL who like me and/or understand me. There are others here who write me off. They are generally trolls. A few are regulars who think I take the trolls too seriously.
Bitch, no one even knows who you are to be talking about you, much less discussing what you take too seriously.
by Anonymous | reply 146 | September 18, 2021 7:03 PM
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R146, There was a thread started last year (it aged out) solely to disparage me. So, okay, whatever.
by Anonymous | reply 147 | September 18, 2021 10:04 PM
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I've never put anybody on ignore but I always find I have people on ignore. Does that mean they put me on ignore?
by Anonymous | reply 148 | September 18, 2021 10:18 PM
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It could mean you fat fingered an F&F.
by Anonymous | reply 149 | September 18, 2021 10:49 PM
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Cinesnatch writes nicely and sounds to be a lovely person.
Show kindness and respect.
by Anonymous | reply 150 | September 19, 2021 7:20 AM
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Cinesnatch "writes nicely and sounds to be a lovely person" in your opinion r150 because he spends his whole life on DL and puts so much effort into his posts (the writing style and supposed "wit", not the arguments and opinions). DL is the only place where he gets to interact with other humans, the only place where he can "perform".
by Anonymous | reply 151 | September 19, 2021 7:36 AM
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[quote].Cinesnatch writes nicely and sounds to be a lovely person.Show kindness and respect.
This sounds exactly like Cinesnatch - the poster who is obsessed with people supposedly having sock-puppet accounts....
by Anonymous | reply 152 | September 19, 2021 7:53 AM
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Cinesnatch, I agree that you write well and seem nice. But I notice that you didn't respond to me (R140).
I hope you didn't put me on ignore! I too, am a pretty nice guy.
And I'm really trying to understand why transracialism is bad. It confounds me, to be honest. Both transgender people and transracial people feel they were assigned incorrect "immutable" characteristics at birth. Both would like the greater society respect the way they feel regarding this self identified reality.
But one is considered valid and the other invalid and offensive.
I just don't get it. I really want to understand what I'm missing. Because I clearly am missing an element.
by Anonymous | reply 154 | September 19, 2021 8:32 AM
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[quote] Show kindness and respect.
I think you missed the sign at the entrance.
by Anonymous | reply 155 | September 19, 2021 12:02 PM
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I apologise, R154.
I don't have you on ignore! I just didn't know how to respond. You make excellent points. I just don't understand "transracial" identities is all and I have a difficult time equating transracial to transsexual.
Sexuality and gender are basic elements to a human being. At their base is the individual who must first understand who they are. Only they can know if they were born in the wrong body, etc. Social politics certainly come into play and can cloud that development. But, essentially, they are innate traits that are part of basic functioning not different from other biological processes.
Race is in part a social construct, it's reflected in how you're perceived/treated by external forces in society. Race can be tied to culture, history. Those "external" elements can inform one's identity. Yet, we are also born with certain facial features, skin colour, biologically predispositions linked to race, etc.
I can't really invalidate and be offended by those who are "transracial." But, I just don't understand it enough to comment in an intelligent way. I don't know why people draw a line, but my comment here was an attempt to understand why.
With transsexualism, I have met transpeople. I haven't transracial people. My only exposure has been the Rachel woman, whom I only have a fleeting knowledge of. Perhaps people hated on her because she "lied"? I think people also have problems with the appropriation of other minorities hardships, which isn't an element for transsexuals. MTF trans generally grow up being bullied and marginalised as they are already effeminate and don't adhere to "masculine norms." Same with FTM trans (but, they also see themselves as men, who are the "dominant" sex in society, and not a minority).
I don't know if any of this makes sense, but it's the best I've got!
by Anonymous | reply 156 | September 19, 2021 12:14 PM
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I betcha anything if when said trans person turned around, a sistah was standing there instead of you, he wouldn't have dared say anything.
by Anonymous | reply 157 | September 19, 2021 12:18 PM
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[quote]Race is in part a social construct, it's reflected in how you're perceived/treated by external forces in society. Race can be tied to culture, history. Those "external" elements can inform one's identity.
Gender is a social construct exactly as you've described here. Sex is a immutable biological trait as you described in the paragraph that preceded this one.
Conflating gender and sex is one of the basic problems the T activists have not only embraced, but cultivated.
by Anonymous | reply 158 | September 19, 2021 2:08 PM
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TERFs and their eldergay hag-queens = Lesboites & their old male slaves with dementia.
This will end sadly.
by Anonymous | reply 159 | September 19, 2021 2:37 PM
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Trans etiquette?
Surely this is an oxymoron.
by Anonymous | reply 160 | September 19, 2021 2:46 PM
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I actually agree with most of what you said Cinesnatch.
Though, like R158 said, I think you may have conflated sex with gender.
Sex and race are immutable. But if we are allow one to change, sex, then we have to allow the other, race, as well. Gender? Change that any and all day no matter what!
I don't think not knowing any transracial individuals should muddy (or clear) the waters. The basic principle exists with or without or anecdotal knowledge.
My gut feeling is that transracialism will start to rise. And I've seen many, many TRA (some even on this board) act as if it's a fate worse than death to compare to the two, which has boggled my mind.
I get the appropriation thing. I guess. But if being a victim is the main thing that defines a status (minority or otherwise), I'd contend that just isn't true. For me? Being gay might include the fear of gay bashing or bad gay jokes, but there are a million other things better define it that have positive connotations. (Also, I would assume that one could change race from black/brown to white, too. Which, of course, would quickly destroy the appropriation factor.)
But I agree with you in part, Cinesnatch: I might not understand transracialism, but its existence should not be relegated to bad actor status. In fact, if we accept transgender with open arms, we must accept transracialism too.
Anyway, thanks for responding. This has been an interesting to discuss!
by Anonymous | reply 161 | September 19, 2021 6:11 PM
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Pretending sex and gender are different is hooey, yet it fascinates the Gender Delusionists and Trans Agendists and those they bully into submission.
by Anonymous | reply 162 | September 19, 2021 9:10 PM
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Is crazy trans problem that no one wants to fuck them? Should we start GoFuck me site, so they get laid & calm down?
by Anonymous | reply 163 | September 19, 2021 9:12 PM
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Is sex and gender only different in English? In most other languages they mean the same thing. There are no different words for it.
by Anonymous | reply 164 | September 19, 2021 11:33 PM
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[quote] Race is in part a social construct, it's reflected in how you're perceived/treated by external forces in society.
Race is not a social construct, dumbass.
by Anonymous | reply 165 | September 19, 2021 11:34 PM
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R165, in the context of identity and "transracialism", race is IN PART a social construct. Someone who claims to be transracial is also ignoring the ways people are treated differently based on skin colour, etc, which are in part socialised into us.
But bless you for your contribution.
I hope your day gets better.
by Anonymous | reply 166 | September 19, 2021 11:45 PM
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R164, in English sex and gender have forever only meant the same thing (man or woman). The fact that there are two words, however, gave the bullshit social theory professors the opportunity to invent gender as an "identity" unrelated to one's sex or body.
You are right though, as far as I'm aware only English has two words for to mean one's biological sex, so the genderists claim that "gender identity" has always existed does not work in other countries. Although even in other languages they are trying to manipulate grammatical gender and/or the act of sex - which have never both meant biological sex - to claim a distinction between gender and sex.
by Anonymous | reply 167 | September 19, 2021 11:56 PM
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Beautiful transgenders of Hollywood.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 169 | September 20, 2021 12:42 AM
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[quote]Transgender models are changing the modeling industry, making it more inclusive. Valentina Sampaio and Leyna Bloom have both appeared in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. Transgender men like Nathan Westling and Chella Man are also game-changing models.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 170 | September 20, 2021 12:46 AM
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Five most beautiful......
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 171 | September 20, 2021 12:50 AM
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OP, it was fine. You made a mistake but it wasn't mean-spirited or meant to offend. The offended party pointed it out, you apologized - interaction managed efficiently.
It was a non-event, I don't know why you'd write to the Datalounge about it. Are you freaked out because someone glared at you or was annoyed by you? That's daily life everywhere on this planet, welcome! It's not something to worry about unless you have an anxiety disorder or mental illness and then you should see your doctor and not the DL anyway.
by Anonymous | reply 172 | September 20, 2021 12:53 AM
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Sex and gender are not the same thing.
[quote]Sex is a biological trait that is determined by the specific sex chromosomes inherited from one’s parents. In humans, male sex is determined (with a few exceptions) by the presence of the Y chromosome. A gene on the Y chromosome directs the differentiation of the fetal gonads into testes, resulting in the production of testosterone — which affects many of the body’s tissues — early in development. People with one X and one Y chromosome, or variants like XXY or XYY, are typically male, while those who have solely X chromosomes are usually female. People have a sex; animals have a sex; all tissues, including the fetal placenta, have a sex; even individual cells have a sex.
[quote]Gender, on the other hand, is socially, culturally and personally defined. It includes how individuals see themselves (gender identity), how others perceive them and expect them to behave (gender norms), and the interactions (gender relations) that they have with others. Often one’s gender aligns with one’s sex: Men tend to assume more masculine behaviors and traits, and to be seen as masculine by others around them, for example. But not always. Increasingly, researchers like Stefanick and Schiebinger are realizing that both men and women exhibit a spectrum of gender traits that aren’t purely masculine or feminine.
Transgender is literally not even a possibility in humans because gender is an infinite behavioral spectrum between masculine and feminine. There is nothing to transition to or from.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 173 | September 20, 2021 1:10 AM
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Terfs, obsessed with controlling public toilets, are threatening, assaulting, and intimidating butch lesbians.
[quote]This hostility towards butch lesbians is believed to be borne out of people challenging the rights of transgender people to use single-sex toilets.
TERF toilet voyeurism needs to be banned.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 174 | September 20, 2021 1:23 AM
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Well?
What about the butch lesbians getting harassed by you and your merry little band of roving bigots?
The Pisser Policewimmin are here to hassle innocent women, Huzzah!
by Anonymous | reply 175 | September 20, 2021 1:33 AM
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So let me get this right, r172: according to you, I did everything right, and yet you still for some reason clearly want to shame me.
by Anonymous | reply 176 | September 20, 2021 1:50 AM
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Because you're an attention-seeking cow, r176, dear.
You clearly didn't want, "It's fine, people often get annoyed that's life," as a response. You wanted "Oh that horrible Trans person was MEAN to you! How dare she?!? How were you to know? You need hugs" as a response and I didn't give it to you. You'll recover.
It's really not a big deal unless you're a fragile flower too weak to handle the world. If that is the case, stay home.
by Anonymous | reply 177 | September 20, 2021 2:00 AM
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inews has been totally taken over by the trans cult. The article linked at r174 is littered with factually incorrect bullshit. UK law protects toilets as single-sex spaces. Trans do not have an automatic right under the Equality Act to use whichever toilets they want.
The butch lesbian in the article the idiot at r174 linked is an employee of the homophobic trans propaganda lobby group Stonewall, for crissakes. I think we can take whatever she says with a pinch of salt.
by Anonymous | reply 178 | September 20, 2021 2:05 AM
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Race is ENTIRELY a social construct, r165. Sex, not so much.
by Anonymous | reply 179 | September 20, 2021 2:24 AM
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Good Lord, r177. Chernobyl had absolutely nothing on that complete meltdown.
by Anonymous | reply 180 | September 20, 2021 2:36 AM
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You definitely need a refresher on Chernobyl, R180.
by Anonymous | reply 181 | September 20, 2021 2:39 AM
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Exclusionist femos need to stay out of public toilets. The body fluid filth and dirty paper and other debris is so unhygienic. Most are too heavy to use them, causing clogs and breaking the toilets, creating more repair, plumbing, and janitorial expenses for taxpayers. They hang in there for hours as if they personally own them, and take joy in the waiting and inconvenience they cause others.
by Anonymous | reply 182 | September 20, 2021 8:03 AM
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[quotes]Gender, on the other hand, is socially, culturally and personally defined.
Just because you and a bunch of pin-headed Vassar Gender Studies grads keep chanting this does not make it remotely true! It's pure Gender Identity Movement gibberish invented to make white woke fauxgressives, and the creme de la BIPOCistans feel extra extra about their strict adherence to the science-free, radical Trans Agenda!
by Anonymous | reply 183 | September 24, 2021 6:22 AM
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[quote] Everyone knows that ‘sir’ has a power dynamic in a master / sub way.
What horseshit!
by Anonymous | reply 184 | September 25, 2021 2:33 AM
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And you definitely need a Midol, r177/ r181.
by Anonymous | reply 185 | September 25, 2021 3:10 AM
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r177 is one of those people who assumes the worst from any poster, and probably thinks everyone around him is stupider than he is. Of course that may also explain why he's so angry all the time.
by Anonymous | reply 187 | September 25, 2021 11:42 PM
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R57 I want to propose another new word for AP: "schloward.' noun. One who, while formally a scholar, is functionally a coward and caves immediately to whatever pressure group happens to be making the most noise at a given moment.
by Anonymous | reply 188 | September 25, 2021 11:50 PM
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[quote]R32 The whole thing is about attention and control of others.
You mean the OP?
by Anonymous | reply 189 | September 25, 2021 11:52 PM
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LadyG is beautiful when she dresses the part.
by Anonymous | reply 190 | September 26, 2021 8:11 AM
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The LadyG is polyamorous, hyperfeminine, closeted trans.
by Anonymous | reply 191 | September 27, 2021 1:50 AM
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