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Question of trans etiquette

Yesterday I was waiting at the window at my coffee shop in Portland (you cannot go into the shop because of COVID), but order through a little intercom and wait for them to bring out your drink after you place your order. A 6' 2" broad-shouldered person, in a shirt and short shorts with tiny rainbows patterned all over them, walked right up ahead of someone else in line to the intercom. I said to the tall person (whose back was to me), "Sir, excuse me, but I think you stepped in front of this man behind you." The person turned around and I saw they had one long braid on the other side of their head I couldn't see from behind. They said angrily, "I already called in my order!" I apologized, and thought that was that.

As they were leaving with their order, they turned to me and said, again angrily, "Also: this is Portland--you should know better here than to assume someone's gender!" I apologized again immediately. They glared at me like they wanted me to argue with them, but when they saw I wasn't going to (they were bigger than I was, and looked like a crazy person), they turned their heel on me and left.

How should I have addressed them, then, since their back was to me? "Hey, you at the window!"? "Hey, tall person!"?

by Anonymousreply 121September 16, 2021 1:40 PM

How about “Citizen?”

by Anonymousreply 1September 12, 2021 9:18 PM


by Anonymousreply 2September 12, 2021 9:19 PM

How VERY dare you.

by Anonymousreply 3September 12, 2021 9:21 PM

The correct form of address is, “hey, them.”

by Anonymousreply 4September 12, 2021 9:23 PM

So "Hey Cunt" is out of the question now?

by Anonymousreply 5September 12, 2021 9:26 PM

Why don't you just call them "fucking freak" OP? Just be your true awful self.

by Anonymousreply 6September 12, 2021 9:27 PM

IT's obviously not a genuine question but 'excuse me' would have done.

I never use 'sir' or 'ma'am', to use either of those words here would mark you out as extremely old-fashioned.

by Anonymousreply 7September 12, 2021 9:28 PM

Calling in an order doesn't mean you get to bypass the line. Since Covid I've noticed people working in food service are increasingly cracking down on this kind of behavior.

To answer your question, just say "excuse me" without using an honorific.

No apology needed though, you did nothing wrong and this guy cut the line.

by Anonymousreply 8September 12, 2021 9:29 PM

R8 Fuck indulging their delusion.

by Anonymousreply 9September 12, 2021 9:34 PM

As R7 says, why would the act of getting someone’s attention need to refer to their gender in the first place?

Also the American way of using ‘sir’ and ‘ma’am’ I’ve always found 1) extreeeeeemely old fashioned and 2) subservient in the dynamic. Hates it.

by Anonymousreply 10September 12, 2021 9:36 PM

r7 I am in my late 30s and I still use sir/ma'am if I need to get a stranger's attention in a hurry, like if they're getting off the train and they've left something behind.

by Anonymousreply 11September 12, 2021 9:38 PM

Where there are transwomen, male privilege is never far behind.

by Anonymousreply 12September 12, 2021 9:40 PM

I'm not even sure how you pronounce 'ma'am'.

'Ma'am as in ham'? But I've also heard it pronounced closer to 'mum'.

by Anonymousreply 13September 12, 2021 9:40 PM

You should have said, "You looka likka man!" in your Mrs. Swan voice, then giggled.

by Anonymousreply 14September 12, 2021 9:41 PM

“Hey, you fat whore!” That’s gender neutral, and always appropriate!

by Anonymousreply 15September 12, 2021 9:41 PM

Gigantor works for a tall broad person, Pipsqueak for a short slender person, Beanpole for tall and slender, or Butterball for short and fat.

Yes, R13, Ma'am rhymes with ham - at least everywhere I have lived in the US.

by Anonymousreply 16September 12, 2021 9:42 PM


by Anonymousreply 17September 12, 2021 9:44 PM

Yo, motherfucker!

by Anonymousreply 18September 12, 2021 9:50 PM

OP, If the person looked like a man, you were correct to say "Sir." Don't fall into the Pronoun Trap. When enough people refuse to go along with this bullshit, "they" will get over it.

by Anonymousreply 19September 12, 2021 9:51 PM

Do you just assume their height, bitch?

by Anonymousreply 20September 12, 2021 10:01 PM

Darling. Toots. Honey. Sweetie Darling.

All of these would suffice.

by Anonymousreply 21September 12, 2021 10:25 PM

[quote] I never use 'sir' or 'ma'am', to use either of those words here would mark you out as extremely old-fashioned.

The horror!!

by Anonymousreply 22September 12, 2021 10:27 PM

R10 I hate "sir" and "ma'am" too and refuse to use them. I've never understood why I have to lower myself to show respect. I cringe when I'm watching a movie and a grown adult calls their adult boss Mr. last name.

by Anonymousreply 23September 12, 2021 10:33 PM

Why not simply, “Excuse Me! Excuse Me!”?

by Anonymousreply 24September 12, 2021 10:49 PM

[quote] I hate "sir" and "ma'am" too and refuse to use them. I've never understood why I have to lower myself to show respect. I cringe when I'm watching a movie and a grown adult calls their adult boss Mr. last name.

I see that we have... issues.

by Anonymousreply 25September 12, 2021 10:53 PM

The violence. It is LITERAL.

by Anonymousreply 26September 12, 2021 11:10 PM

I thought outrageously entitled and hair trigger MTF behavior was a feverish Datalounge fantasy until I moved back to Portland two years ago.

by Anonymousreply 27September 12, 2021 11:21 PM

r27, there are fewer trans people in Portland than this person I met at the coffee store would suggest, but even so, there are a number--probably more per capita than most major US cities excepting only SF/the Bay Area.

The ones who genuinely are trans--that is, who genuinely feel gender dysmorphia (which is a real thing)--usually actively try to look as much as they can like the gender they feel they truly are.

I normally go out of my way to avoid getting entangled with people who just dress bizarrely and look like insane people (like this person at the coffee shop), because in my experience they can become irrational and even violent (which they enjoy doing--they love to pick a fight). Had I seen from the beginning this person was wearing a long Renata Adler braid to one side as well as the dirty rainbow-patterned hot pants (just from the latter, and given their hairy men's legs, I assumed it was a homeless gay man), I never would have said a word to them about cutting in line.

by Anonymousreply 28September 13, 2021 12:34 AM

The gender they feel they feel they are .... oh Good God ..... There are two genders, male and female. Trans isn’t a thing... it is psychosis.

by Anonymousreply 29September 13, 2021 1:05 AM

Just say "hey asshole you need a shave."

by Anonymousreply 30September 13, 2021 1:31 AM

This is what causes transdeath, to misgender, don't you know that. I personally look past them, don't interact. if someone is dressed as you described I just avoid, avoid, avoid. They are looking for attention. Any kind. Sometimes I feel this is what trans is all about. Look at me!! Pay attention to me!! To deprive them of their personal oxygen is the best way to handle it I have found.

There is a trans MTF locally who loves to make sure to use the ladies in the local supermarket where he works. A few women would see him heading to the ladies & say loudly to each other let's go to Dunkin donuts for a piss. He stopped that shit really quick. No one was giving him any attention.

by Anonymousreply 31September 13, 2021 1:51 AM

The whole thing is about attention and control of others.

by Anonymousreply 32September 13, 2021 3:11 AM

Funny how the percentage per capita of women who are murdered everyday is far greater than the trans, but that is conveniently overlooked.

by Anonymousreply 33September 13, 2021 3:12 AM

If you felt the need to address the person, simply say "excuse me" or "pardon me" and not include the sir/ma'am portion.

Or, if you wanted to be very passive/aggressive, you could use "excuse me, friend" as that would have plausible deniability on whether you were actually being friendly.

by Anonymousreply 34September 13, 2021 3:17 AM

I wish we used “mate” here in the U.S.

Ok I am ignorant- is mate just used for men or can women be your mates too? I don’t want to offend any MTF, cough, women.

by Anonymousreply 35September 13, 2021 3:31 AM

R28 wow you’re so dull. You’re like a boring straight person.

by Anonymousreply 36September 13, 2021 3:34 AM

Saying “ma’am” or “sir” doesn’t mean you’re “lowering yourself”. What an odd idea.

Do you have to debase yourself to show respect? If you debase someone else do you suppose it elevates you?

Using someone’s preferred pronouns is also a sign of respect. Is that debasing yourself, too?

by Anonymousreply 37September 13, 2021 3:45 AM

R37 that’s a bit insincere. Everyone knows that ‘sir’ has a power dynamic in a master / sub way. I would never call anyone sir. And ma’am just sounds so ancient haha.

by Anonymousreply 38September 13, 2021 4:02 AM

R5, I find that using cunt for all genders is WOKE.

by Anonymousreply 39September 13, 2021 4:23 AM


by Anonymousreply 40September 13, 2021 4:27 AM

r38 sees problems where there aren't any as a demented pasttime.

by Anonymousreply 41September 13, 2021 6:19 AM

R41 it’s not a problem or a pastime of mine, I just think it’s outdated and weird. Stupid American cultural tradition. Correct me if I’m wrong but the use of ‘sir’ has some not so savoury historical context in US culture too?

by Anonymousreply 42September 13, 2021 6:40 AM

I propose three pronouns that would solve all the problems. You get to choose one.




Excuse me, fucker, but you cut the line. See, works fine.

by Anonymousreply 43September 13, 2021 6:48 AM

She was being a cunt.

You should have kicked her in the balls.

by Anonymousreply 44September 13, 2021 6:51 AM

You should have asked, 'How do you prefer to be addressed dickhead or cunt?'

by Anonymousreply 45September 13, 2021 6:57 AM

Let's make our own pronoun since doing that is all the rage nowadays.

Dick + Cunt = Dunt

by Anonymousreply 46September 13, 2021 6:59 AM

Was she fat? Then "Gunt" or Hey, gunty!"

by Anonymousreply 47September 13, 2021 9:41 AM

Hey, you, the Rocksteady Crew!

by Anonymousreply 48September 13, 2021 11:50 AM

How about "Hey...fucker at the window...there's a line here!"

by Anonymousreply 49September 13, 2021 12:31 PM

T-etiquette...as if such a thing exists.

by Anonymousreply 50September 13, 2021 12:35 PM

“I don’t mean to be rude, but you do realize how ridiculous you sound? I mean you make Rose McGowan look normal!”

by Anonymousreply 51September 13, 2021 12:39 PM

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that we only call white people “sir”.

by Anonymousreply 52September 13, 2021 1:06 PM

[quote]"Also: this is Portland--you should know better here than to assume someone's gender!"

Seems to me "They" was the one assuming someone's gender. Mine.

Also: what's Portland got to do with it? Would it have been a suitable reply to say, "Sorry, I'm just visiting. I normally live on Planet Earth."?

(I put "They" in quotes because morally IDGAF but grammatically it offends me. The argument that I would EVER write "they" instead of "he or she" anytime the gender of the person was unknown is profoundly wrong, and does literal violence to me, the owner of a degree in English.)

by Anonymousreply 53September 13, 2021 1:21 PM

R53, don't you love the argument the T activists make about the singular "they" having always been a thing? They fail to mention the part where it was used as a speaking/writing convenience when the sex of the person being referred to was unknown to the speaker or writer. It was not used to refer to the 6'3" obvious man with a mental illness who just cut the line.

OP, your only mistake was giving a shit what this man thought because he is insane.

by Anonymousreply 54September 13, 2021 1:42 PM

My pronouns are she and it or shit.

by Anonymousreply 55September 13, 2021 1:58 PM

[quote] the owner of a degree in English.)

I got me one of them too.

It ain’t mine, but I do have the degree.

by Anonymousreply 56September 13, 2021 2:03 PM

Look what this shit hath wrought.

They literally just added the bullshit second usage of "singular they" based on some T committee of the insanely woke. They're just going to pretend this is a real usage. Unbelievable.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 57September 13, 2021 2:11 PM

[quote]How should I have addressed them

"Excuse me."

You're overcomplicating things to ... I don't know ... troll DL?

Aren't you tired, Miss Hilly?

by Anonymousreply 58September 13, 2021 2:15 PM

People say they want Florida or Texas to split off the Union. It really should be Portland. It really could be Portlandia then. And what a dirty little hell hole that would be in six months.

by Anonymousreply 59September 13, 2021 2:34 PM

Always puzzles me when people like R53 pick the 'they' factor as their hill to die on. Like this:

[quote]The argument that I would EVER write "they" instead of "he or she" anytime the gender of the person was unknown is profoundly wrong

Just makes no sense to me. What's profoundly wrong with a sentence like: "I heard that you had a great candidate for that job interview, they had great experience and references, are you going to offer them the job?"

Would you suggest that instead of saying "I don't know much about them, but the new CEO is meant to be a complete nightmare, I heard they sacked half the senior management team at their old company" you'd really, genuinely and truly say "I don't know much about him or her, but the new CEO is meant to be a complete nightmare, I heard he or she sacked half the senior management team at his or her old company?"

Because if you genuinely, truly, honestly would then you're a twat.

by Anonymousreply 60September 13, 2021 3:08 PM

Apparently you can get a whole degree in English without learning that language is a living thing and that usages change to reflect a changing society.

by Anonymousreply 61September 13, 2021 3:16 PM

R60 thinks that using undefined pronouns changes the world and, if you don't agree, then you're a twat for not unnecessarily changing the English language.

Twat, indeed. Kettle, meet twat.

by Anonymousreply 62September 13, 2021 3:17 PM

R35, “Mate” was always used between males, but is now often used by women as well. I would be cautious about shouting “mate” to someone who is transgender. You never know how they might want to present that day. They might kick your cunt in. Or they might not.

by Anonymousreply 63September 13, 2021 3:22 PM

Was that the Stumptown down by the river, OP? On 2nd or 3rd, I think? I love Stumptown. Almost alone in that whole desperately hip city, they give good service.

As to how to address a stranger, I really have no idea. The only people who have ever addressed me in Portland have wanted either money or a signature on their petition(s). I’ve learned that when you see a person looking directly at you and smiling, you just look for their clipboard and keep on moving because no way on earth is it friendliness.

I wish you luck. Portland people are so ridiculously prickly and fault-finding I can barely remember the interesting backwater it used to be before so many downtown stores were boarded up and the effort to clean up the vile graffiti was given up as a lost cause.

by Anonymousreply 64September 13, 2021 3:36 PM

I like the idea of saying "friend," but I don't know if I have the nerve to work that into my regular vocabulary or not.

Trans people are completely attention seeking. They're equal to people who bring dogs into malls. (Or maybe the bringing dogs into malls has stopped with covid. I haven't actually seen that recently.)

Changing the usage of they/them to singular is part of a slippery slope. Yes, a lot of people use it, but it's wrong. I went to art school in Philadelphia with a lot of people who said "drug" instead of "dragged." Are you people okay with that too? My dyslexic daughter used "drug" the other day and I corrected her immediately!

by Anonymousreply 65September 13, 2021 4:01 PM

OP, what are you the line police? I think you’re the problem here.

by Anonymousreply 66September 13, 2021 4:02 PM

R66 is Portland Antifa

by Anonymousreply 67September 13, 2021 4:07 PM

Why is Cinesnatch a staunch trans defender? We can never pick apart their delusions, misogyny, and controlling behavior ( language and thought police) without C-snatch scolding and acting huffy.

And I don’t think we are mocking the gentle people who want to live their peaceful lives in their perceived, preferred gender.

by Anonymousreply 68September 13, 2021 4:07 PM

I will again say that Cinesnatch is brave to continually use his handle. I have stopped using mine because people seem to be nicer when you don't use it. I usually agree with what Cinesnatch has to say, but we did have an online tussle about the trans issue a few months back. I think some people really buy into this (the trans thing). My sister has a biology degree from Johns Hopkins. She's a burnout (is that the right term?) in Seattle, but not stupid. I can't have any kind of real conversations with her anymore, because she thinks I am simple for thinking that men are men and women are women. Look, I am a woman, but I don't go around feeling like a woman. I just feel like myself.

by Anonymousreply 69September 13, 2021 4:16 PM

Also, I am agree applaud OP for being the line police. I am too. It's a subtle form of either bullying, asserting dominance, or not caring at all about others. It is never okay unless it is unintentional. Line cutting must be in my top ten pet peeves.

by Anonymousreply 70September 13, 2021 4:21 PM

Oh shit. What did I just write there? ^

by Anonymousreply 71September 13, 2021 4:23 PM

R70 - and all you have to do is say - oh, excuse me, I have a phone order, I believe it's ready.

Not hard to do. I would never feel so entitled than to skip an entire line without providing an explanation.

Many places now have separate lines/areas for phone orders. Although it would never occur to me to take the time to call up ahead for a cup of coffee.

by Anonymousreply 72September 13, 2021 4:47 PM

[quote] Was that the Stumptown down by the river, OP?

It wasn't Stumptown. It was the Seven Virtues Coffee Shop on NE 60th and Glisan.

by Anonymousreply 73September 13, 2021 5:29 PM

[quote]usages change to reflect a changing society.

No, they don't.

by Anonymousreply 74September 13, 2021 5:54 PM

Next time just say, "Hey, pussycat."

by Anonymousreply 75September 13, 2021 5:55 PM

Could somebody explain to me what feeling like the opposite sex is like? If you're a man but feel that you're a woman what does that feel like? That you want to conform to stereotypical behavior of that sex? You want to go around in dresses and makeup and high heels? Considering the overwhelming majority don't have their genitals removed what exactly makes them feel their a woman? Doesn't it just reinforce gender stereotypes which I though everyone wants to get away from. Longhair and lipstick. This is what defines a woman?

by Anonymousreply 76September 13, 2021 6:01 PM

oh dear 'they're'

by Anonymousreply 77September 13, 2021 6:02 PM

[quote]It was the Seven Virtues Coffee Shop on NE 60th and Glisan.

Thanks! I was about to ask. I was going to guess Coffeehouse Five on N Killingsworth and Albina (they have the intercom setup too).

[quote]this person was wearing a long Renata Adler braid to one side as well as the dirty rainbow-patterned hot pants

Thanks also for this perfect description - I'll be sure to keep my eye out

by Anonymousreply 78September 13, 2021 6:03 PM

R75 = Tom Jones

by Anonymousreply 79September 13, 2021 8:03 PM

They wouldn't do that to Caitlyn on her morning coffee runs in Malibu.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 80September 13, 2021 8:04 PM

R76 you'll notice MTFs always dress slutty as well, like $5 whores (which they probably are). It's a fetish.

by Anonymousreply 81September 13, 2021 9:34 PM

I just call everyone "Sweetie", "Honey", or "Darling".

by Anonymousreply 82September 13, 2021 9:54 PM

I’ve been getting timed out a lot this last week (which is fine; I don’t care).

I wonder if I start espousing anti-trans/race-baiting/anti-abortion rhetoric all the time, if I’ll get timed out as much.

Do people in this thread get timeouts very often?

by Anonymousreply 83September 13, 2021 9:59 PM

R83 Do people ever not accuse you of being a flaming asshole?

by Anonymousreply 84September 13, 2021 10:23 PM

Cinesnatch is a deranged weirdo who has shared his transsexual fantasies/fetishes (having sex with a transsexual AND being a transsexual). He also chastises gay men for not being open minded enough to have sex with transsexuals.

This has been a public service announcement.

by Anonymousreply 85September 13, 2021 10:36 PM

Hi R84. Yes, there are level-headed people on DL who like me and/or understand me.

There are others here who write me off. They are generally trolls. A few are regulars who think I take the trolls too seriously.

Also, R85, I do not endorse having sex with anyone you don't want to have sex with.

But, keep spreading lies like R85 and/or attacking me all you want by calling me a flaming asshole. I know you find my honest threatening.

This behaviour says more about the two of you who cower anonymously behind your computers. Chances are you're fat, ugly, and/or have a small dick (if you're a man). I find comfort in knowing I don't fall in any of those categories. ;)

: shrug :

by Anonymousreply 86September 13, 2021 11:31 PM

Exactly, R76. That's why it's completely fucking regressive.

Hey, Cinesnatch, answer me these:

Why is transgender okay but transracial isn't?

What is the definition of woman?

As usual, the most outspoken defenders of the Transtapo will never, ever answer these two simple questions that I ask in every T thread.

My answers:

Neither is okay or real.

A woman is an adult human with XX chromosomes.

Your turn.

by Anonymousreply 87September 14, 2021 12:05 AM

I used to go to Seven Virtues when I lived by there. Just wanted to mention that. Ha ha. In fact, I’d get coffee there before seeing my wackadoodle therapist around the corner. She was helpful at first but after a few months, I was paying for her to talk about her chronic Lyme disease.

by Anonymousreply 88September 14, 2021 12:07 AM

I have R87 on Ignore. But, I got curious and checked my Ignore List. There is someone in this thread whose opinions line up with mine on multiple issues except this one. They addressed me by name and appear to be asking the same questions they asked in the recent E. Page thread (I forget the name he changed to).

I believe there are people out there who were genuinely born in a physical body that does not match up biologically to who they are. I believe this because biology isn't always black and white. Neither is sexual orientation. Intersex people are born, as well. By and large, males who are born male are male. Same goes for female. As far as sexual orientation, I think a lot more people than we realise are oriented to be bi, but largely have a preference for the opposite sex.

Has this been taken "too far" lately in our culture with all the stuff about binary, etc? Perhaps. Do I think there is mental illness involved with some people who make claims that they fall outside of the norms? Yes. I think there are some who identify outside of the "norm" in part because it's a political choice. Do I think MTF competing against biological females is "unfair"? Perhaps. Do I think it's a legitimate concern the some kids begin hormone therapy and have surgery before they're ready? Perhaps.

But, by and large, I tend to believe those who say they were born in a biological body they don't identify with sex/gender-wise. I grew up in the 80s and I volunteered with various LGBT organisations in the 90s. I've met trans persons and I've heard their stories and what they have been through. I've listened to a lot of shit sandwiches these people have been dealt with in life and would have never "chosen" this much more difficult path to go down.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand/empathise with. Feel free to disagree with me. But, I'm tired of the arrogance and ignorance that the anti-trans posters perpetuate here on the DL. If this is the hill you want to die on, have at it. But, life is short and there are more important battles to fight IMO.

by Anonymousreply 89September 14, 2021 12:26 AM

If I used the word “they” in my response to my that witch, you can bet your ass I would have used air quotes.

by Anonymousreply 90September 14, 2021 12:31 AM

Now, that I can see R87's comment and I can see that I was correct in predicting what it was.

Honestly, to me, from the way you talk about this particular issue, it sounds like you live on the internet and need to get out more.

But, I agree with your stances on abortion, vaccines, pandemic masks, and talk about these issues with a great deal of sound rationale. I believe I have been flexible and openminded as to the way I talk about trans issues when looking at them from both sides. On the trans issue, you sound inexplicably defiant, and not someone I can have a level-headed conversation with.

I have R90 (which does posted) on Ignore as well and my Ignore List isn't loading right now so I can't look up the comment until this posts.

by Anonymousreply 91September 14, 2021 12:33 AM

Yo, move!!

by Anonymousreply 92September 14, 2021 12:34 AM

Too bad the North American Native tradition of Two Spirited people was not adopted. It is a type of third gender and respected. Although I have read that warriors who partnered up with Two Spirited men were mildly joked at.

by Anonymousreply 93September 14, 2021 12:35 AM

[quote]Why is transgender okay but transracial isn't? What is the definition of woman?

To answer these questions, I had to look up transracial. I don't think they're the same thing. Legitimate transgender feel they were born in the wrong body and often face discrimination for any expression of that. This "transracial" thing--as far as I can understand--is also supposed to be about being born in the wrong body. The only problem with that it is minorities who largely bear the brunt of racism, so if someone white is claiming to be "transracial," they're not going to incur any kind of racism in venues where they are biologically part of the majority. So, this is not an apples to applies scenario on one very important level. But, I also don't believe "transracial" is a far reaching phenomenon and bringing it up obfuscates the conversation more than anything.

The second question (What is the definition of a woman?) is designed to be black and white. Like, it's suggested in my previous comment, most women are born with female anatomy. But, there are exceptions. I've met legitimate MTF transpeople who are intelligent, kind, and good human beings. I don't believe they would have chosen their path in life unless they believed they were born in the wrong body. Life is hard enough as it is.

This goes back to a common theme that was discussed with gays in the 1980s. and 1990s: why would most people CHOOSE to be gay. They wouldn't. They would CHOOSE to be straight, because it's easier. No one wants MORE problems and challenges to face. Life is hard enough as it is. What this world needs is more empathy (which is rare on DL, but I guess that's par for course). Do I think there are those who have taken the issue to absurd extremes? Yes. But they are part of the minority. And, thanks to social media, they get amplified on the internet (and the DL) and misrepresent the trans community as a whole.

I have F93 on Ignore as well.

by Anonymousreply 94September 14, 2021 12:49 AM

This is just going to keep going around in circles.

Cinesnatch, you sound like you really care about people and want to do the right thing. You sound like a serious liberal. Most of us are down with that. But how can someone feel like a woman? How can someone feel like a man? It just doesn't mean anything. Does feeling like a man mean someone who flys into a rage and throws shit around and yells in a deep voice? Does feeling like a woman mean getting strangely emotionally sometimes and not realizing why until later? That's really all I can think of.

by Anonymousreply 95September 14, 2021 1:01 AM

taking Portland off my retirment list

by Anonymousreply 96September 14, 2021 1:21 AM

"Toots" is gender-neutral and expresses the DL spirit.

"Hey, toots, no cutting the line!"

"Don't you DARE assume my gender!"

"I'll do what I like, toots!"

by Anonymousreply 97September 14, 2021 2:01 AM

Thanks R95. I would have written you earlier but I was given a timeout. Seemed to be a quick one though (thanks Muriel!). The mouthier I’ve gotten lately, the more timeouts I’ve been given!

Anyway, all I know is that if I were trans, I would want the support of my community, not people criticising my very essence/existence. I treat others how I would want to be treated. Legitimate trans people have had to fight for decades to be recognised, just as the gays have. And they continue to fight.

Like I said, I had trans acquaintances when I volunteered in AIDS hospice and elsewhere. I would want them to stand up for me, so I try to do what I can for them. I do wonder if the average DLer has even gotten to know a trans person and human level.

I can’t see R93 or R97, as I have them on Ignore.

by Anonymousreply 98September 14, 2021 5:53 AM

*on a human level

by Anonymousreply 99September 14, 2021 6:34 AM

To be fair, the LGB community WAS supportive of Trans for decades. We did empathize with them.

However, in the past 10 years, shit has gone off the rails. People are no longer transitioning and just plopping on a wig and some lipstick and saying they're women. Teens and pre-teens are being given drugs to permanently change their bodies before their brains are developed to make such a decision.

Gays and lesbians have been accused of hatred and shamed into putting their needs aside and propping up Trans. They've tried to take over our history and claim that 2 men in dresses were the catalyst and the reason for gay rights.

This isn't the same group that gays and lesbians were supporting years ago. It has become an authoritarian cult that is damaging a lot of good will and young people's lives.

Are all trans this way? No. But there is NOT enough voices calling out when these people are wrong, being offensive and going too fucking far. So, yes, unfortunately, it becomes a blanket dislike of all trans when they start trampling over others' rights and identities.

They're not asking for support, they're asking for complete control and an unquestioning deference to their ideas and beliefs. Ain't nobody got time for that.

by Anonymousreply 100September 14, 2021 3:34 PM

Hi Cinesnatch and all, the argument that people don't do things to make their lives more difficult doesn't hold anymore either. People do all kinds of crazy things to draw attention to themselves and to make their lives more complicated, and, I would say, more difficult:

People bring dogs into malls

People dye their hair unnatural colors to get attention

People get facial tatoos

And so on. I, as an insecure young woman, did everything I could to make myself pretty. One can argue that mermaid hair is pretty, but bright Ronald McDonald hair? (And my favorite color is red). People now intentionally make themselves look unattractive. So yes, people do things to make their lives more difficult. People are nuts.

by Anonymousreply 101September 14, 2021 4:26 PM

Sorry, I can't stop posting. I also think that having a chill, uncomplicated life is no longer the goal for young people. Their goal is now to stand out. They are attention seeking, and do whatever they can to seem cool. Being gay or straight is no longer interesting (that's for old people!). Being bi like a rockstar isn't even good enough anymore. These people want to be different. (Unfortunately, it has become a trend, and now they're all the same.)

by Anonymousreply 102September 14, 2021 4:47 PM

Lol! Similar thing happened to me at Starbucks drive thru yesterday. Make voice took my order in drive thru. I ended by saying “thank you, Sir!” And I got a withering response:”I’m a ma’am, NOT a sir.”

Now if I had seen her when I ordered, I would have never said sir. But I was simply being nice and merry and thanking the person for taking my order.

I just don’t get the intensity behind the response. I’m sure there are a lot of assholes out there who want to trample on trans rights, but I ain’t one of them. If your voice sounds male and I can’t see you, I’m going to assume you’re male.

by Anonymousreply 103September 14, 2021 4:58 PM

I'm surprised she said I'm a ma'am. She must have been old.

by Anonymousreply 104September 14, 2021 10:18 PM

[quote]I believe this because biology isn't always black and white.

I beg to differ.

by Anonymousreply 105September 15, 2021 7:40 AM

Trannys are fucking hilarious. Now that it’s Fall, we should just say…”Trick or Treat”.

by Anonymousreply 106September 15, 2021 9:56 AM

Usually, its' a struggle to address them. Not because of confusion, but because I am pretend coughing into a napkin to disguise the fact that I am LMAO at how they look. God bless those of you who can keep a straight face. How do you do it? I recently saw a clip of Milton Berle in drag & I had that Eureka Moment thought that's it! At least Berle was doing it for laughs. Tragic they have no clue what a gift of laughter they are.

by Anonymousreply 107September 15, 2021 12:52 PM

You should've told them you loved their youtube video.

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by Anonymousreply 108September 15, 2021 12:56 PM

R102 - Amen - and that's because of social media, in my opinion. Gay or lesbian or bi isn't enough. Plus there's a lot of long-term content for trans people - the identification process, choosing the name, the start of treatments, people's reactions, starting the hormones, etc.

I honestly think for some of these people it is a way to make their boring lives interesting. Yeah - it's an uninformed opinion perhaps - but why else with this spike of cases the last 5-10 years?

On the other side, I also blame social media for spreading this and convincing people that their problems would be fixed if they become another gender.

by Anonymousreply 109September 15, 2021 2:37 PM

R86 "Lies"? We can all see your posting history, you fucking imbecile.

This is what you've said:

"I'll also add that I've fantasised about it before (both fucking an MTF and a man fucking me where I'm an MTF).

It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Open your mind, grow up, and stop spreading shit we don't need to hear. LIfe's short. Thanks."

These are your OWN words. You are literally a mentally ill, homophobic bisexual with a transsexual fetish.

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by Anonymousreply 110September 16, 2021 2:49 AM

[quote]These are your OWN words. You are literally a mentally ill, homophobic bisexual with a transsexual fetish.

Does fantasising about killing people make someone a murderer?

[quote]He also chastises gay men for not being open minded enough to have sex with transsexuals.

No I did not. Quoting me doesn't prove it either.

You're deranged. So to the Ignore List you go (if there's still room). Bye.

by Anonymousreply 111September 16, 2021 2:55 AM

Hey big spender!!

by Anonymousreply 112September 16, 2021 3:58 AM

Clearly it’s ma’am!

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by Anonymousreply 113September 16, 2021 4:05 AM

r113, meet r108.

by Anonymousreply 114September 16, 2021 4:10 AM

R111 Fantasizing about killing people makes you a person who fantasizes about killing people. Fantasizing about being a transsexual and having sex with a transsexual makes you a transsexual fetishist. You are not very bright.

"Quoting me doesn't prove it either"

Yes it does. You told gay people that we needed to "open" our minds to the idea of engaging in sexual relations with transsexuals, aka you are pressuring gay people into having sex that we don't want. Again, you are not very bright.

"You're deranged. So to the Ignore List you go (if there's still room). Bye."

Nobody cares about you. Few things are more insufferable than some histrionic Cluster B dramatically announcing that he has blocked someone. N-o-b-o-d-y c-a-r-e-s.

by Anonymousreply 115September 16, 2021 6:17 AM

^^^ THIS x 1000 000

by Anonymousreply 116September 16, 2021 6:22 AM

I love the “if there’s still room” comment. JFC, how many people do you have blocked? And why?

Anyone hear echoes?

by Anonymousreply 117September 16, 2021 11:48 AM

There are cool people on this site (some nice, some honest, some funny, some witty, etc), but I find I have to wade through a sea of assholes to get to them. So, yeah, I put the anti-trans, anti-Muslim, racists on block, so I don't have to deal with inundation of these jerks.

That is my experience. Yours is probably different, R117.

You can block up to 255 people/sock-puppets on here. And some of many (sock-puppets).

by Anonymousreply 118September 16, 2021 11:53 AM

*And some have many (sock-puppets).

by Anonymousreply 119September 16, 2021 11:54 AM

TERFs, Qs, Karens & Proud Hags, Boris and Irina, are distraught because their political ally and sex idol, Caitlyn, lost in California. Their intense hate and meanness makes them delusional, and they invade every DL thread they can seeking support from eldergays whom they also despise.

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by Anonymousreply 120September 16, 2021 1:33 PM

[quote]TERFs, Qs, Karens & Proud Hags, Boris and Irina, are distraught because their political ally and sex idol, Caitlyn, lost in California.

Wouldn't they all be celebrating Jenner's loss?

by Anonymousreply 121September 16, 2021 1:40 PM
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