Family of Hikers - Part 4

Background on SAR in national parks in US

A popular theory, to bring newcomers up to speed

Timeline with info from LE

I still say heat.

Hard to rule it out, R4

This local reporter seems to have good sources. When there are breaking developments he is a good one to check/follow.

"Not one clue." How about the fact that no one hikes this trail at least two months of the year, except for this one family with a baby and dog. How can that not be a clue? How about Cause of Death: Cluelessness by Law Enforcement?

Lol, they do seem to be drama llamas up there in Mariposa.

Heat stroke is often a diagnosis by exclusion, esp when the bodies were decomposing in baking heat for a while. I get erring on the side of caution and all, but they are amping the "mystery" factor a bit too much IMO.

It was obviously Zombie Vivian Vance who did them in. She had sufficient.

With the candlestick? Or with a trip wire that triggered a spray of poison only available in Mexico?

Christ, the OP and almost all posts are missing....

Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti

Crazy things do happen in national parks, R12, but what is in it for him? Is he/it the enforcer for the drug cartels or what?

R11 No they’re not.

So with the Missing 411 / Bigfoot theories do the people just turn up dead? Or are they never found, thus "missing?" Sorry for my ignorance on the topic. Think the "cases" are linked to national parks and I have seen the term bandied about re: this. Purportedly "details" of such cases are often said to be "covered up." Anyone know more about these sorts of theories and if the facts as we know them would fit? Might was well cast a big net and also keep ourselves entertained as we wait for the next round of "such a MYSTERY" from Mariposa LE.

This is one article linked as to how "out there" causes can be, not sure we would ever know. Never heard of this incident.

Yes they are r11.

Lol so these threads are being started and operated by practically one person?

Yes, R18 and if you comment on how boring it's getting the OP gets very agitated and posts Muriel's rules as if us long time posters don't already know.

I was watching a hiking video on YouTube and the hiker said "It's going to be really hot today" and I thought NO, we want you to live! LOL

I was just looking at pictures of HCT and the trail is VERY steep and narrow at spots. It would be very risky, imo, to try to walk that trail wearing a baby in a carrier on your back and keep a safe balance. The risk of a broken or sprained ankle also comes to mind when viewing the trail. Add a dog into the mix as well who could accidentally trip a hiker. Mind you, I could only see the HCT, the SLT is rated more difficult, much steeper and of course has a steeper incline. Wtf were they thinking? Nothing about hiking there looks fun, even without a baby and a dog, much less with them. Did those two think it was some kind of achievement to take the most dangerous chances possible? What a pair of fuck-ups.

And Snapchat, R21. And many do want to become "counselors."

Very sad but if this was the kind of thing they did when she was so small, seems at some point their luck was gonna run out.

The way people think about risk is so odd. I would bet 1M that they had the baby in a carseat on the way to the trail. And they owned a life jacket for the dog when they took him on a boat. Yet, this risk that killed them did not even seem to register. People are known to discount risks more when they occur close to home. They plan more for overnight trips than day hikes, there are more SAR call outs for the latter for that reason.

To expound R18 I have a feeling that the OP and the troll posting most of the posts in these threads is none other than a LV resident and former Bellagio housekeeper. Just a strong suspicion. I have it on ignore but I wouldn't be surprised if aliens and Bigfoot don't creep into the conversation and in a serious manner instead of jokingly.

R23 Now that you mention it, the troll's linguistic footprint is reminiscent of Poo Shoes and her OCD.

She's only posted on these threads and one or two comments on a Kanye thread R24. Hit ignore on her ass and it's eye opening. OCD is right.

Oh dear, every DL insult is being flung my way, lol.

I've been on DL for a long time, usually it is PR types who work to derail threads and try to suppress posting. No idea what motivates people on this thread, but, don't care. Blocking works fine.

Another dead hiker. Stay safe out there people.

For those voting for algae in the poll, do you think that alone finished them off or a combo of that slowed them down plus heat plus no access to an ER? Or, put another way, if exposed to the algae at home, would they still have died in your opinion? Do you think they all died from algae from drinking the water, from being exposed from the dog or that the algae was somehow aerosolized? Why have other animals not have been found dead from it?

They left us at home and boy was I pissed. Now... well, I can't speak badly about the dead.

"Pointless bickering" = a standard feature of many if not most DL threads. I am shocked when an argument DOESN'T break out on a thread.

Regarding the cluelessness of these parents, I encountered plenty of that with my friends and their firstborns. It seemed to take a while for them to accept the limitations of their kids. I remember one marathon day I spent with two couples and their respective toddlers. I would have been happy to have quit after doing half the things we wound up doing that day, but no, we had to keep going. In the end it was clear that the kids were beyond wiped out, and one of them registered this by shrieking at the top of her lungs throughout the entire drive home. It was not a short drive.

And while this girl's life wasn't in danger, I was kinda surprised at the parents' blase attitude towards the kid's distress nor any recognition that they had contributed to it. One thing I learned on that trip is parents' lose their hearing quickly. The most bloodcurdling shrieks didn't phase them at all.

Aliens is a strong number 3. What purpose?

I'd say because the OP has a history of OCD levels of interest in alien visitations and abductions R30. It used to post long ass threads with post after post of laughably fake videos as though they were absolute proof.

I don't understand why the OP's posting history (or the posting history of anyone else) really matters. No one is saying anything political here. We just want to know what temperature is too hot to take a walk.

R32, it's a long time DL troll thing. She was a big Bush supporter too btw.

That reminds me of the old DL classic "major pussyhound, big Bush supporter"

That sounds almost as miserable as a death march in Devil's Gulch R29.

When my friends spawned I was gobsmacked by how desperate the adults were to get out and socialize on weekends, even if jr. was clearly sick, even puking or if missy had strep throat. WTF would I want to be around that or why shouldn't the kid be in bed?

So much is about the parent's identity and sense of self and not "losing it" instead of understanding life has different phases or hiring a sitter.

To go from adventure tours and the club scene to working from home in the middle of nowhere is a bit of a pendulum swing. Life can have greys and nanny can do some work on the weekend.

Kreycik the dead trail runner used to do risky shit with his kid in tow, his friend oohed and ahhhed. Maybe someone should have called out his risky bs and he might still be alive.

These 2, ordinary was never good enough, had to be at a performative extreme. Behind the scenes was it great? Hope so, since it was so short. Dope house, I would have been hanging at the tiki bar and inviting folks over when it was 105, hiking can wait until it cools off. The mountains and gulches and abandoned mines aren't going anywhere. Live to hike another day.

Did the autopsy results come out yet?

Looks like they basically murdered their child and their dog, by bringing both on their dumb hike.

This is a fascinating story (in a terrible way), though I admit I haven't followed it that closely; heat does appear to be the likely culprit, but were the their bodies found together (ie. she might have dropped quickly, but presumably he should've been able to stagger farther)?

He was wearing the baby in a backpack and may have been carrying an ailing dog, R36, together that would be a significant % of his weight going up a very steep section of trail. He was found seated, she was a little further up the trail, thinner people tend to discharge heat better and she was not wearing a 25 lb pack of baby and carrier.

Horrible way to die esp when they had a lovely in ground pool a few miles away, perfect for frolicking in triple digits.

The mystery is why they went on this hike on this day and why they pressed on and did not turn around earlier on. What could the drivers have been? In the 90s within an hour after presumed start time and climbing, a very furry dog, 12 month old, when you hike on a trail that drops down into a deep canyon you are gonna have to climb back out, no tree cover, warnings about toxic algae in the river so not a great day for swimming for people or pup, just why?

.....

[quote] "You can't drink yourself out of a heat-related injury," explains project leader Joseph Domitrovich, an exercise physiologist at the U.S. Forest Service's National Technology and Development Program. "It's not the magic bullet that people thought."

It looks like Daily Mail is reporting that their latest guess may be lightning.🤔 Two months later: Still waiting....(Please hold..... ...your call is very important..) After reading these posts since the beginning, I'm still thinking Occam's Razor you know: The usual odd man with gun forced all four of them to hike down the Savage Lundy trail, drink the algae-infested water, then pick up dog, hike back up hill till struck by the lightning bolt. I just don't think Mariposa LE is trying hard enough to see the obvious. So frustrating.

So MYSTERIOUS, R40.

Guess framing it that way gets lots of clicks. NYT picked up that theory from online chat boards then that was the basis of a few other stories and now this one. None of it sourced by LE.

The theory is not even an overhead lightning strike, there is one about current travelling underground. But no dead wildlife, just them. No wildlife were said to prey on them either, with the high temps they were staying out of the hot sun and off that exposed trail.

Since heat stroke can be a diagnosis of elimination after death, especially where the bodies were outside in high heat for days, there won't be a finding until the tox screens come back.

Shame they did not just splash in their pool and sip juice at their tiki bar.

The Hart woman, the one who murdered her family in the SUV cliff dive, came back from the dead and took them out, too.

At this point I think that ginger family in SC is involved in the death of this family

What were their relationships with their mothers like?

[quote]I guess stupid people work for Google.

Not anymore.

Could be, R43, he had to spend that embezzled money on something!

Hike safely, live to hang with the burners for another year.

Jon sometimes DJ'd at Burning Man. Some of his sets are on Soundcloud. Sad and such a waste to go so young.

Fentanyl.

What is your theory re: ingestion, R48?

From how dramatic heat stroke seems to be (not downplays it) wouldn't any standard exam show their deformed 'molten' organs? Wouldn't the brain especially have distinct deformation? I'm also not sure what quality the biological remnants will have given how long they were exposed. Doctors of DL, would recovering stomach contents for examination even be possible?

I'd think the sight of a couple, baby, and dog having been cooked to death over the course of days would be pretty incomprehensible, (reason for the dramatic adjectives used by LE).

^downplaying,

Did a little looking and there's a staggering number of dog core cooling vests available, although longevity is limited, for 'all the gear, and no idear' (bragging about our stupidity now?) Why didn't they have something on the dog? How was that poor animal supposed to 'transcend ' it's physical limitations? We're they also teaching their baby to transcend hers?

I don't think the DM should be publishing articles, giving attention to parents pushing young children/toddlers, etc. to participate in these extreme hikes and climbs, etc.

DCF will get involved unfairly if the parents fit a profile but these idiots are getting acclaim for wreckless endangerment, as long as they're well heeled.

Maybe Osski's spirit dogs were supposed to help him "transcend?" There are also hiking booties for dogs so they don't burn their paws on trails in 109 degree heat or cut them on rocks. Who knew? Oski did have a boat safety vest. I think they were just very ignorant about the heat.

I suspect their hiking frequency as a group had slowed from "weekly" post baby and they just had not been out in high temps with the dog and baby. Not sure why they did not expect them that day as it had been 105 on Saturday. Kreycik the runner was running 6 min miles and faster when he "cooked himself" as his friend so elegantly put it. I wonder if the baby was sleeping and they moved very quickly at first, underestimating the steepness of SL and leaving less energy in the tank for the climb. Without a garrulous friend who plied them with beer we are left to simply guess.

Sad.

[quote] "From what search-and-rescue leaders are seeing, people who go missing in the outdoors here [in California] tend to have experience but somehow have gotten in over their heads...In quite a few of those cases, the hikers have gotten into dangerous situations not because they lack experience... but because their deep level of experience led them to feel more comfortable taking risks."

In other SAR articles it has been noted that people take more risks on short day outings that are close to home.

Hope that these articles save at least one life. I have had a heat related emergency but have learned a lot more on these and the Kreycik threads. Nature is great but stay safe out there...

r53 Interesting. I wonder if it is a similar phenomenon as to why car accidents tend to happen closer to home. (Can attest!)

Glad u are ok, R54. Do you think the degree of vigilance might be different?

I used to do somewhat risky hikes during my part-time employed and not in so great in shape situation years three years ago. I can tell you that hiking in even 90 degree heat takes you down several notches on the cognition factor. I almost stepped on a damn rattle snake during a 5 hour hike with a friend and I didn't even see it! I grew up through many years in the SoCal desert and could a rattlesnake fairly easily. Heat was a huge factor during that hike...it was over 95 degrees and although not a novice hiker, not in the most favorable conditions.

I tend to get overheated pretty quickly because i am very fair, my blood vessels are close to my skin and i admittedly don't drink enough water most days. I have re-thought my hikes, in heat, in CA and decided that it's better off NOT DEAD.

[R53], slightly off topic (where do these memories lodge and why do they appear nearly 40 years later?), I remember in driver's ed in high school in 1976 we were told that most accidents occur within something like five miles of home on sunny, dry days.

Interesting, R57, maybe in favorable and familiar conditions we pay less attention?

Live to hike another day, R56.

The "getting in over their heads" theory probably makes the most sense; and you could kind of see these types of people being like "yeah, having a baby won't change us - we're as hardcore as ever!"

^ this times a million

I see our troll is still rubbing one out to this subject, dead in the water as it is. It's one troll replying to every comment.

Hi, 💩!

Posting on a thread I started is not trolling. You however are one of the most unhinged narcissists I have ever encountered on DL and that is a high bar. That you obsessively post about me and make up lies about my post history is deranged. Why you must shit all over threads and attempt to derail them is a mystery.

As someone who worked in Dem politics for years your attempted smears about my politics were amusing. Your references are dated and you type old. Maybe it is a combo of narc rage and early Alzheimer's. Usually it is the Sunshine Sachs / Spazz troll who goes on these tirades targeting ordinary posters, who knows, maybe you are him?

Blocking now. As have many others, I imagine. Sad that so many seem to have been pushed over the edge in this difficult year. I do hope you have adequate support IRL and that your rage has not isolated you.

Back to the Gerrish-Chung saga. It is sad enough on its own IMHO.

R60, the dog was 8, how do you imagine they had managed not too give it heat stroke previously? Was the move from the cooler Bay Area just that much hotter but something they did not factor in?

They had a life vest for Oski on a boat, but the heat not registering as a safety issue is so odd. He had to be visibly panting, etc shortly into the hike into Devil's Gulch. I can see poor planning but the sensory input that day, why not turn around?

Or do you think having a baby was a "hold my beer" kinda thing?

The True Crime Troll talks to himself

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Lol so these threads are being started and operated by practically one person?

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Yes, R18 and if you comment on how boring it's getting the OP gets very agitated and posts Muriel's rules as if us long time posters don't already know.

Fentanyl, maybe residue in water. Way to kill people.

I still think they were high on mushrooms or ecstasy. Who would make the decision to do this?

r50, it's possible that if they were dead relatively early on the first day then there may not be signs.

[quote]The autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short.

In that heat, maybe their bodies could have decomposed enough to make it difficult to determine cause of death.

That is a good point, R67 and seemed to be an issue with the dead trail runner too.

For the it was the algae crew, why no dead wildlife or livestock?

…Still waiting for that tox screen….

Pointless to keep discussing til it's available. It's been rehashed to death.

Has anybody talked about them going to Burning Man, R70?

Yes, that has been talked to death too but I know you're jesting.

Might be weeks yet, R69

From r73's article:

[quote]In under 20 minutes of standing by the edge of the millpond, my throat began to burn. Not like strep throat, however. This was different. More like inhaling bear spray, something I have experience with. And within minutes, it was my lungs, they were on fire. I began coughing. Hacking. Spitting. Before long, the headache set in. At times I couldn’t catch my breath — also like bear spray.

From my post R485, last thread:

[quote]Toxic algae can kill upon contact? Really? There would have been evidence of it all over their bodies and in their hair. Gerrish was a hairy fella. So was the dog. There would have been bits of algae clinging.

[quote]Toxic algae can become aerosolized in moving water. [R493]. Inhaled, it can very quickly cause respiratory distress. I had this happen to me some time ago in a beachfront restaurant with open windows. One of our party was an asthmatic. He began having difficulty breathing, and had to use an emergency inhaler. Before long, we all started having trouble breathing. and the restaurant was shut down. We had breathed in toxic algae from the ocean.

It's a real thing, though I don't think it's what happened to this family. Someone jokingly referred to Occam's razor earlier. It was probably heatstroke. I don't find anything about their deaths mysterious.

[quote]For the it was the algae crew, why no dead wildlife or livestock?

Who says there wasn't, r68?

:)

The sheriff said no dead livestock in a vid that was on here somewhere.

I blame the dopamine seeking in the broiling canyon.

If the algae was in the air seems like it would have impacted the LE who slept on the trail until the bodies could be removed, no? Or maybe it dissipated.

Besides the house someone found with the very sweet pool, they had reportedly bought a house very close to the trail in Jerseydale. Has anyone found that one?

[quote]The sheriff said no dead livestock in a vid that was on here somewhere.

What a bizarre thing for the sheriff to say, r75. Why would there be ANY livestock on that Godforsaken trail?

[quote]If the algae was in the air seems like it would have impacted the LE who slept on the trail until the bodies could be removed, no?

I don't know where the bodies were found with regard to the river. IF algae was a factor in their deaths, they could have gotten some distance away.

There is livestock that drinks from the same river, assume they are kept where there is some grazable vegetation not on SL trail. He was specifically asked if livestock or wildlife had been reported to be killed by the algae, but, nope, only these 4 dead, of whatever cause.

The mix of livestock and recreation in parks seems to have been in place in the Sierras for a long time. Before the drought and frequent fires it was less desert like.

What if they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were placed where they were found? Maybe by her ex-husband?

R78 Relatives don't believe they were murdered.

They were not murdered.

Lol, how would you move a body and then place it seated cross legged on a trail? it gets a bit, well, stiff, after death, no? Not the most bendable and poseable?

She was not reported as having an ex-husband and was only 30ish. He is way older so may have an ex-wife. Neither of those things would have mattered in this instance.

Perhaps they were dropped from a low-flying helicopter?

R82 Family of Hikers - Part 4 What if they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were placed where they were found? Maybe by her ex-husband?

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Perhaps they were dropped from a low-flying helicopter?

I am the Occam’s Razor OG. They *clearly* died of heat. All other hypotheses are absurd. *Clearly*.

It would be nice if states simply begin fining citizens who bring animals and minors into danger. There could be clearly defined parameters, and then it is on the public to understand the law. I have no problem with that — officers and rangers (and search animals) could easily have been killed too. Throw the book at people who refuse to follow the law. Parents need to be accountable, and the only people who will disagree are the same ones still saying COVID isn’t real.

Parents and pet parents — no, you do not have the right to endanger children or pets, they cannot give “informed consent”, just like they can’t give consent to sex. Children and animals are under the supervision of parents/owners, and said parents/owners must be held accountable. Had they lived, they should be charged with endangerment, neglect, kidnapping, animal abuse, animal negligence, and something equivalent to felony assault. I welcome people who make these bad choices to actually serve time.

The state should also file a claim against their estate to cover all costs associated with their case. I’m sure when it’s all said and done, it will cost the state a substantial amount of money. Why should the taxpayers of CA have to foot the bill for this idiocy?

Why do you think there are so many odd and dramatic theories swirling around them, R84?

With Kreycik, I could see, the same county had a famous case of a man who bounced to LA and started a new life, so it was possible. But this family murdered by a 3rd party on a trail? A lightning strike that travelled underground? Algae that has never killed a human suddenly wiping them all out? Even FA by poison seems unlikely, who would go on such a grueling hike in such high temps first?

Humans and animals are simply not designed to do well in 109 degree heat, particularly without shade and when trudging up a scary steep incline. Water, fitness or gear will not save you, the firefighter study and even the Olympics made that clear. .

I agree that people doing dumb shit should be liable, it being in a national park is no get off scott free scenario. Where I live they routinely pluck people off a mountain who have no supplies, even water, and more than one has been in flip flops. Even the easier trails there involve climbing over rocks. SAR costs money and the lives of others may be endangered.

I really wish the public messaging would become more direct and strong re: heat. Possible death, brain damage, visits from CPS and animal control, etc, may get attention. That 32 year old who just died had lingered from collapsing on a hike in July, she had even had organ transplants, the medical costs were extreme and in the end, all for naught.

R83 - I'm trying to think outside the box.

.......

R85, the answer to your first question is that we are a completely debased civilization, without any rudimentary critical thinking skills. Our social skills have regressed. People live inside their info bubble, so they are less street wise too. Basically, our movement is not forward but backward.

Yes r88, we’re rapidly becoming an [italic] Idiocracy [/italic]

Thanks R87 - good info.

The 32 year old woman who experienced heat stroke while hiking in July and who then needed multiple organ transplants but who recently died anyway had NO health insurance the family did GFM.

Hiking has such a "healthy" rep, don't try it if you can't afford multiple organ failure and months in ICU kiddies.

She had gone to visit her brother and they went for a hike. Only 32, another sad case.

People are not educated about the risks of heat, there needs to be an organized campaign beginning in spring. Trails should be announced closed in very high heat or high "feels like" indexes. Or like in DV, people should be told to FINISH hike by 9am.. Will save $$$ re: SAR too and will undoubtedly save lives. An announcement should be added to parks and AllTrails that there may not be cell phone coverage to summon SAR.

The weekend warriors can be conditioned to make different choices, or at least their ranks somewhat thinned in a manner other than premature death.

Some are still speculating FA with eye drops but that did not do well in the poll. Even if they were on the trail at 8 and moved quickly it was still going to be too hot for that type of dog with a double coat sometime after 9 and it was a long loop. I think it was likely that the proximity and all of the mines in the area were the draw for him that day, heat did not really factor in. He also seems to like climbs per his AT account, guess the SL trail meant going out doing something he loved?

Why has this event generated such obsessive interest? Why?

R92 - for me, it's because the dad was such a beautiful hunk. With a foreskin.

Thousands of people die each year in India of heat stroke - they deal with temps above 100 all the time. Plus access to clean water is very limited for many people there.

Sadly, India is getting hotter (as is the middle east) and this will only worsen.

[quote] Hiking has such a "healthy" rep, don't try it if you can't afford multiple organ failure and months in ICU kiddies.

Well, that's a stretch. Hiking and being physically active is much healthier than being a couch potato. Just exercise some common sense and don't hike steep canyons in triple digit weather.

More hiking calamities - solo hiker in GNP dies during hike (specific cause of death is TBD, though thankfully no toxic algae was mentioned).

{quote] “We’ve got this chunk of gulch here called Devil’s Gulch. People go in there and never come back out,” Mackensen said. “It’s a really, really steep hole choked with brush and rocks and the fire is burning in that."

Devil's Gulch sounds like a lovely place for some quality family time.

Who keeps bumping this dead in the water, boring ass thread? I must have it on ignore but seriously why do these trolls keep talking on threads no one else is posting on.

With the fire this bad in Devi's Gulch area, no one is going to be hiking it for a while. After 2018 it took years for the trails to be re-opened. The roots burned under the ground creating very deep holes in the trail with volunteers working to restore it making jokes about falling to hell. Firefighters seem to have a lot of respect for it.

[Quote] One particularly precarious area where the fire is burning was named the Devil’s Gulch many years ago by the area’s first explorers, fire information officer Rob Deyerberg said. The terrain is “only a place where the devil would live,” Deyerberg said. “We will not put firefighters down in the worst places. That’s where they build their lines, develop their plans of where can we catch this fire on our terms.”

Very sad, I hope all the firefighters stay safe.

JG and EC were seemingly ignorant of the dangers they faced. I think it was a combo of heat, poor air quality from the fires that impacts ability to exert oneself, being slowed by the dog who may have needed to be carried if exposed to algae and due to heat, and the steepness of the SL trail. Humans have died from algae exposure but it typically takes a few days (vs. dogs who die very quickly) so it would be unusual if that was a huge factor. The reported temps are taken in the shade, temps in direct sun could be higher than the reported 109 with the ground and rocks also radiating heat up. A dog, esp with a double coat, would have a very hard time. They are more exposed to the sun and closer to the ground heat.

Some still think FA. It does seem to be an extreme thing to do but I think it was just ignorance. Hope the baby and dog went quickly and did not suffer.

Hikers should be careful in fire season esp to not get into places that are difficult to exit quickly, esp if they do not have the gear to summon help. A PLB could have saved all their lives, but common sense goes even farther. I suspect that the dog began to have issues partly down HC trail and they rushed to get down to the river, not factoring in how hard the climb out on SL or HC would be. It's ALWAYS better to turn around than to get into a situation you can't get out of.

We even have haze attributed to the CA wildfires on the East Coast now, stay safe Cali.

The extreme lifestyle changes cut off most of their prior dopamine sources - clubbing, travel, adventure travel, djing, being very social, etc. Abruptly going to living in the middle of nowhere and working/schooling remotely did not leave many of the prior dopamine levers available. Parenthood is a huge adjustment that some resist. All making risk that much more attractive. Chasing dopamine...

After the bodies being out in the heat on the trail for days, anyone know if they would be able to tell if Gerrish had some sort of cardiac event? Stopping to assist him or wait while he rested could have caused Chung to experience heat stroke. Baby and dog were dead before or as a consequence of the adults becoming incapacitated.

His age, being a weekend warrior, the fact that he was packing the baby and may have been carrying the dog, and the steepness of the SL trail could all be factors. Sitting and leaning forward is typical for someone having a hard time with breathing, whether from heart issues, heat overexertion or smoky air. The heat radiating up from the trail could have been quite a bit hotter than the 109 in the shade outside Devil's Gulch, no way was he sitting if staying on his feet was an option.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Nah, there’s just fewer white women available. Where/when I grew up, it was like 95% white, now it’s around 60% Asian and most not born here.

Eesh, R103. Horrifying way to go.

Your theory does seem to have some merit.

The "masking" is important, if they had a toddler on a motorcycle, they would be arrested. When Kreycik pushed a running stroller down an extremely steep trail with poor footing, other dorks looked on with "admiration?" Hmmm. Dopamine junkies looking for a fix and maybe to compensate...

Gayface for days, R103.

What is going on with the bride's throat in that photo?

People overestimate their skills and nature is very unforgiving.

R104 Fewer white women? In Utah?

Mormons brining in a lot of immigrants, perhaps, R107?

My city, not in UT, has a large Mormon population and I know from a Mormon co-worker that many are international.

R102 Fantastic article, thanks for posting it. If you guys haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it.

There is a lot of "who knew?" tidbits in there. I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't a combo platter of fuckery that happened to this family. The lightning portion of the article is especially something everyone should be aware of, hikers or not.

Given the low quality/low IQ of the officials handling this, my guess is someone lost the fucking samples for the tox screen and we are never going to get the results.

That article should be posted at trailheads. I hike and learned things.

I think his age, 45, was also a factor. He likely sat all week and had a very city/club life previously, then did the weekend warrior thing. Kreycik had a lifetime of fitness and was almost a decade younger, but, still "cooked himself" as his friend so elegantly put it. 45 is up there to put so much stress on the heart when you add in the weight of the baby/possibly carried dog, the heat, steepness of trail, smokiness of air, and possibly erm, prior "habits" common to the dj/festival scene that can impact the heart as one gets older and it was a complete clusterfuck.

Best way to live through trail mishaps is to be well informed and cautious and avoid them from the jump. A PLB can save your life or that of someone you run into on the trail. On a trail a 30 min drive from your home, you can die from heat, this summer is sure proof. Those micro climates in CA should be respected. 109 was a nearby town in the shade, in the direct sun it could have been up to 15 degrees hotter. The sun baking down and radiating up from the ground and rocks, the name Devil's Gulch surely seems to fit. At least the trail closure and now fires kept anyone else from sacrificing themselves in that canyon.

Overestimating your own prowess, underestimating the power of Nature and chasing dopamine > you may not live and may put others at risk who depend on you, look for you or try to rescue you. The Tuesday the Gerrish Chungs were airlifted out by helicopter, one of the LE team also succumbed to a heat emergency, it was that hot by 11 am. If you watch news footage, you can see the air shimmer as the heat rises out of the canyon, then imagine the peak heat of afternoon.

For those who chase the thrills/chase the dragon, try dopamine fasting to reset that reward system. That they did something so risky, with a helpless infant and dog in tow was so hard to understand that some speculated they had been forced there at gunpoint. A fast paced life with loads of travel and social stimulation to living isolated in a forest and 20 miles from the nearest smallish town > culture shock and not much dopamine. But loads of other hikers, runners and climbers have died this summer who had not had such extreme lifestyle changes. Learn about heat, learn about brain reward systems (esp re: risk and social media and apps like AllTrails). Stay safe out there everyone.

R109, the officials also seem a bit dramatic, so some surprise shocker end would not be amiss in how this has played out. Shame they did not talk about heat more, as a likely factor to at least SOME degree. This has gotten so much worldwide media attention and that opportunity was missed. Could have saved others by increasing knowledge of heat risks.

[quote]The lightning portion of the article is especially something everyone should be aware of, hikers or not.

Even so, statistically only 10% of people struck by lightning are killed so it's not a likely scenario that his happened to their entire family and dog.

Yes, that article at R102 was very interesting; when you hear about these types of things, it's easy to just write it off as reckless or stupidity, but with a few exceptions all of those fatalities outlined in the article happened to seasoned pros who (appeared to be) well prepared.

Related note: I wonder why national parks are such magnets for suicides. Couldn't you just as easily do that at home?

[quote]I wonder why national parks are such magnets for suicides. Couldn't you just as easily do that at home?

Seriously? I can only imagine the level of turmoil that would drive someone to suicide but, if given a choice, would you want your own four walls to be the last thing you saw on earth before taking your final breath?

.....

Yes, but if you're so depressed that you intend to kill yourself, I would think the last thing one would want to do is exert the effort to get to a national park. During the times in my life I felt so hopeless, I could barely get out of bed. But that's just me.

And you know we’re always here for you, right, r115?

We’re always open 24/7/365, hon.

STILL no toxicology reports? What's the hold-up?

Hope you are doing ok now, R115.

Toxicology results don’t just materialize in a couple of weeks. In this case, there are two discrete agencies involved.

They each do the tests they can do in-house and send the rest to outside labs. We don’t know how busy or how much of a backlog those labs have.

We also don’t know where this case falls on each lab’s list of priorities. Some work on strictly on a first-come-first-served basis while others can be persuaded to push certain samples to the front of the line.

On top of that, some things require secondary, confirmatory testing to be performed at yet other labs.

It doesn't take this long for most toxicology results. And this is a somewhat high-profile, media-covered case to boot. Results are needed ASAP!

DL'ers should start calling the labs and demanding answers!

Mostly, we want to find out if the dog died first.

Toxicology will show that Ellen Chung had traces of pumpkin spice in her system.

I demand to speak to the toxicology manager!

i seriously think they took either shrooms or MDMA and went out on the trail to trip and bond with their "spirit dogs."

However, even w/out, it was WAY too hot out there for ANY of them, much less all of them.

Yes, Karen (r124) - right away. Please hold on a moment while I page him...

Whatever the toxicology reports reveal, they will be a dud. There’s no way they’re going to feel satisfying after this excruciating build-up. Too much buzz—no way they can deliver.

The grandparents won't be in a big hurry to drag out the results that will prove their adult children committed negligent homicide. Better to shroud it in "mystery" that deflects blame away from those two boneheads.

New algae article. It was confirmed that the family did NOT have a portable water filter with them. 1 camelback for all of them?

A filter would not eliminate the algae toxins but absent at least a plan to augment what was carried in for the hike in extreme heat, what they have been reported to have brought was extremely insufficient for the duration, heat and intensity of the hike.

Maybe it was a planned FA/suicide? The water they brought would not be enough for 1 adult in those conditions.

There would be easier ways to kill oneself and one’s family than by dehydration, R130, don’t you think?

Killing oneself with HEAT STROKE is easy and all too common, R131. Why pack in sufficient and very HEAVY water if one does not plan to survive?

Or could just be dopamine chasing dumbshits, we may never know for sure.

R130 is the one who keeps posting incessantly and bumping her dead thread. Nothing is too ridiculous for her to throw out there. Has she brought up Bigfoot or UFOs yet? Pedo pizza parlor sex rings? That's it! These hikers stumbled onto a satanic sex ritual.

Killing oneself INTENTIONALLY by heat stroke? Get outta here.

Some speculate that this could be a case of FA, in such cases they are often staged to seem "accidental." It has been raised in this thread that suicides occur in national parks. With the extreme heat, 109+, anything that was contemplated to slow them down would likely lead to the death of group members, so it is within the realm of possibility. LE may have more info from tox results, phone, etc that will narrow different possibilities in or out.

To me it seems accidental but the failure to bring adequate water, check the forecast or to TURN AROUND are all mystifying decisions as is bringing a double coated older dog and a 12 month old out in extreme heat and direct sun.

Or they could have overestimated themselves and underestimated Nature, or just had their luck run out that day.

R129 - god, he was so hot!

^ heat stroke is all too common

Maybe one day we will get an edit button.

Heat stroke is not the worst way to go, when I had a heat emergency I felt out of it. I felt worse in the subsequent days as I recovered.

If it was FA, it is more typically the man, but she had a TBI in her late teens, which comes with a high risk of depression, esp after 7 years. Postpartum depression is always a risk, esp when going through so many major life changes all at once, the isolation of cv, the enormous lifestyle change from the city - clubs, festivals and adventure travel - and no kids to extremely rural life and 20 miles from a town of 8,000, etc.

Was it actually water they were carrying in the insufficiently sized Camelbak? Or was it vodka??

Will the autopsy report reveal if he was circumcised or not? Will it say how many inches it was? That's all I'm really waiting for.

Is FA really that big a thing? Are there warning signs? I can sort of get some cases of murder-suicide, but why the whole family? Kids and pets are pretty innocent.

(Not saying I AGREE with murder-suicide, but I can see why a twisted mind could commit that type of thing. I just can't wrap my brain around FA.)

[quote]Is FA really that big a thing?

No.

[quote]Will the autopsy report reveal if he was circumcised or not?

Yes.

[quote]Will it say how many inches it was?

Sorry.

It's usually the boilerplate: "the external genitalia are those of a normal (un)circumcised adult male," or some slight variation thereof. We had one very old guy, probably a Datalounger, who always felt the need to add "...of average size, shape, and position."

The description of the genitals is followed by the biggest slap in the face of all, "the anus is unremarkable."

It does happen, R141, without a note it is harder for them to parse it out.

They lived in a new and very isolated place, and had new remote work/school, were their neighbors close enough to spot warning signs?

People's behavior can make perfect sense if they have a different goal. Ellen had owned the very furry Oski for 8 years without baking him to death. Maybe they got in over their heads or maybe they meant to? We may never know.

It can be done with readily available chemicals, tragically. .

Often with heat stroke there are witnesses, here, not the case, so becomes process of elimination. Also, the bodies were out in extreme heat and direct sun for over 48 hours which will impact autopsy findings and possibly particular tox findings. .

Wow, more common than I realized.

I think they likely got in over their heads pretty quickly that morning, the dog would have begun having difficulty within the first hour. Why not turn around? Why not bring more water? Why did Ellen not bring a phone on the hike? If she was trying to go for help at the end, why was the only phone found in Jon's pocket?

It could have been intentional, or just an accident. But if they did make it 7 miles that is a long way to go in such danger, having to pack the baby and likely carry the dog much of the way, the physical demands would be significant, esp given Ellen's small stature. Turning back would have been the better course. They hiked into a very deep canyon, they had to know the effort that would be required to climb out, yet they kept going.

.....

.....

They did not even make it to their second wedding anniversary and the baby had just turned 1. Huge change in lifestyle, plus parenthood, plus cv, that is a lot in a very short period of time, while also being physically separated from their prior social network and pastimes. Where they lived was very pretty but super isolated. Had to be a lot of stressors and boredom. Maybe that made risks seem that much more appealing or maybe life had lost its zing? We may never know.

There is a rumor that he was married before and that his ex lives in Mariposa. Maybe that relationship is why he began buying property there years before meeting Ellen?

The lightning thing doesn't really make sense. Three of them were struck and died and then she took off to get help and got struck by a separate bolt elsewhere?

R151 Lightning would have left obvious burn marks on them.

Like I said upthread, statistically only 10% of people struck by lightning are killed so it's not likely that the entire family and dog perished due to a bolt from the blue.

I knew someone, friend of a friend, who had a psychotic break from PPD. Very sad, was the second kid, she had been fine with the first one. With the second, she was still released from the hospital and she was supposed to go to outpatient therapy. She left the kids with a sitter and offed herself. In the UK they keep both mom and baby hospitalized to stabilize them. Not sure after a year, but someone said elsewhere that that Ellen slept all day while Jon worked and the nanny watched the baby. All may not have been well and the frequent posts to social media had stopped. Men are usually FAs but with women the cause is more typically poison. Maybe that ties in with the inadequate water supply that they were said to have brought?

R154, that’s the first I read that about the wife sleeping all day. Can you cite your source? That could potentially shift my opinion on the cause of death.

Someone posted it on social media, I think the nanny had mentioned it to people in Mariposa.

Ellen had posted regularly on Insta before the baby but had rarely posted since the baby. That an empty baby carrier was posted very early the morning of the hike seems a bit striking.

Not sure what the tox screens will show since they were in extreme heat for a few days before they were airlifted out.

I think heat had to have played some role, one LE was overcome by heat the morning the bodys were removed and dogs were pulled off the search bc they were burning paws on the trail. But, Jon had researched the trail and anyone with sense would have insisted on turning around as the temp soared. So, maybe a plan both were in on?

He is said to have an ex-wife who lives in Mariposa, he bought his first house there years before meeting Ellen, so clearly liked the area. It really may not have been her cup of tea, living 20 miles from Mariposa and that is a pretty small town, would it be easy to meet people there? Would Ellen have much in common with them?

I thought both looked strained in the photos of the baby turning 1.

Tie ins with Scienos. This stuff is wild.

^ oops, R157 was wrong thread

R154 = OP, the Bellagio Maid/Poo Shoes/OCD troll who repeatedly regurgitates the same information mixed with her own manufactured BS. Put her on ignore and you'll see the thread clean up nicely.

Another sock puppet account from the Spazz / Sunshine Sachs / True Crime Troll, shoo.

Ellen had a biology degree, may or may not have any relevance. She worked at Almac prior to leaving corporate life due to her unnamed health issue.

Ellen

R2 Living in TX, I feel that I’ve come close to heat exhaustion while gardening (I bought a rotary mower for when my lawn guy goes awol) and my main symptom is when I start to see black. I can’t believe that I’ve let it get that far but it can be very sneaky and it’s easy to tell one’s self that five more minutes won’t hurt.

You might want to check out a cooling vest, R163.

It came on the same way for me, which is how I got into trouble. I stayed in the sun.

Heat played a role that day, whether it was accidental or not. And anything that would have slowed them down increased the risks.

I wonder how much hiking they had done with the baby and dog, I think it's possible that the "every weekend" was prior to the baby. Curious what health condition led to her quitting corporate work but left her healthy enough for pregnancy and very strenuous hikes.

No results yet? Isn't this unusual? I also do not understand their seemingly reluctance to mention heat stroke as the COD. It is obviously the most likely cause, but LE release little info and act so mysterious, as if a UFO was spotted hovering over them right before death. No disrespect to the victims, the sarcasm was meant for LE.

The median age in Mariposa is well over 50. Not sure how easy it would have been for Ellen to build a social network there as a transplant and Berkeley grad. Hope the last year was a happy one for them, sad that they had so little time. And they were 20 minutes even from there, it was a very isolated life, a complete 180 from SF.

I do wonder if this particular sheriff's dept is just super dramatic or something, R165? Anyone local know if they have a similar take on other cases? Tox screens can take a long time, I think it could be a few weeks yet.

I wonder if she wanted to move back to SF? He had already been divorced once. Who would she hang out with in Mariposa that would make the long drive to get there worth it? Who did they socialize with as a couple or family? What did they have in common with their former SF crowd now?

She looks very different in the face in the 1 yr party photos, is it strain? I wonder if any of her friends from Berkeley had started having kids yet? Who did she talk too, if anyone, on a regular basis? 30 is young these days. He was 45, so getting old to be a 1st time dad. I assume if he had had kids with his first wife that might have come out?

Living in the middle of nowhere with few social outlets during a pandemic would put a lot of stress on a very new marriage. If she felt she was not getting attention from "my Jonny" anymore due to his focus on kid and new job, or if she was talking about moving back to the city with the kid, a FA or m/s scenario becomes a bit more likely. Commonly available chemicals in products like eye drops have been used in the past. Getting a dose in everyone could explain the relatively minimal water that was taken for such a long hike in triple digits.

She had really stepped back from social media, which can be a good thing, but then there was said to be a photo of an empty baby backpack shared early that morning, bit spooky.

If you use Bing Maps and look at the Savage Lundy Trail you will see it as it really is. Burned, barron, brown. It was a shock because it looks bleak enough on Google Earth, however, the Google Earth topography is from before the fire, Bings was mapped after the fire. A striking difference.

R159, glad to see someone else noticed old 💩 👞 was hanging a around again.

Unusual choice for a pleasant family outing, R168, an unlikely place to be discovered if that was a goal.

There have been comments about them going to a local museum and Jon interacting with the baby there on Friday. Wonder what their Saturday looked like, besides him researching the HC trail on AllTrails. The houses are all quite far apart, so no insights from neighbors. Did they have people over regularly? Socialize with other families with babies? The town of Mariposa was closest, 20 miles away and it's TINY, 1,186. They really were in a very isolated, rural area. That is a lot of pressure for a very new marriage and re: adjusting to parenthood. Add in covid isolation and working/going to school remotely and reduced travel, which had been an outlet. She was likely fairly isolated when pregnant too, due to cv. How many people did she hang out with in Mariposa? He had ties there that predated their rx and his ex-wife is said to live there, so he may have had friends there. That the real estate agent comes up so much as their friend in articles is striking, had they met many families or was it mainly relationships with service providers - the realtor (who may have been their "house manager" too, the nanny, etc?"

The town of Mariposa does not even have a stoplight. Quite the 180 on lifestyle.

Mariposa County has a population of under 19k. Tourism is a big source of income, I imagine that is why Jon was buying up B&B properties.

Not really aimed at 12 month olds.

The reality of entertainment options had to hit a bit hard. And in the winter?

I keep hearing about this picture of an empty backpack. Why hasn't it shown up here yet?

"Mariposa Bermuda Triangle"

Wonder what the history is re: the name "Devil's Gulch?" Definitely rugged terrain.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

we STILL don't have an answer on this? WTF?

Tox results were said to take at least 6 weeks.

If they have gone so far to close the area down, you would think they would put a rush on the tox reports in case the cause of death could turn out to be a health hazard to others. It has been 6 weeks and counting.

Closures extended through 10/29.

It is still quite hot, maybe they don't want looky loos getting into trouble?

Doubling down on they lost the fucking lab samples.

Getting close to going from Occam's Razor to something like aliens. I'm half joking but this is getting so stupidly weird, why not some aliens? Why not? Maybe they don't want anyone near the place because something completely freaky went down, and aren't sure what, and they don't want people to panic.

Fed & local agencies are involved and days baking on the trail in the sun probably rendered findings inconclusive, the bureaucracy is grinding on...

Rental bookings are said to be up in the area. It is still in the 90s in the area of the trail and there was just a fire in Devil's Gulch, it might just be public safety concerns re: people wanting to go to the SL trail. No reports of injuries to humans, wildlife or livestock have occurred re: river water. The sheriff did that FB chat and it is monthly so should be another one soon.

I'm thinking they aren't releasing or stalling the results because they KNEW about the algae blossoms/poisons and didn't take appropriate precautions/warnings. They are worried about fallout if they report all of them died from algae poisoning.

that's my conspiracy theory at this point.

I totally forgot about these losers.

Dog The Bounty Hunter is on the way. And oh boy, Dog and his children HATE toxic algae.... So, yeah.

It's personal.

ROFL

There was a caution level re: the algae before the hike.

No other humans, pets, livestock or wildlife appear to have been affected by the algae in the South Merced/Merced River.

My theory is that everyone is eager for the story to be buried because: 1) the over-confident Googler and his brain-damaged wife committed negligent infanticide and 2) the Forest Service should have closed all trails leading to Devil's Gulch after the fires because they became dangerously exposed in summer. So all of the culpable parties benefit from spinning it as a mystery to deflect attention away from how this could have been avoided.

All are punish-ed.

I feel strangely emotionally invested in the outcome of this story, though I don't know if anyone remembers the NYC Ninja Murders, but DL spun all manner of crazy conspiracy theories only to have the crime be about as basic as it can be: the guy was murdered by a known associate over work/money issues. So I have a feeling this story will have a similar outcome: one day there will be a brief blurb on the news that these people likely died of heat exhaustion and the response will be "duh, of course they did!"

R190 Or all the heat exposure know-it-alls find out that it was takedown warning that went too far because of a hit by a rival gang angry about the GC's sex trafficking and drug running operation moving into Mariposa territory. "We're going to cram your heads into algae-infested river water and leave you to crawl your way home in 107 degree weather. Good luck, suckers!"

As of the date of this update, the cause of death remains undetermined. Detectives continue conducting interviews and investigating all potential possible explanations for the death of the Gerrish / Chung family. Many toxicology reports have been completed; however, we are still pending a few key results. We have no timeline for those pending results.

Causes of Death Ruled Out: The following have been ruled out based on evidence recovered or through investigation. ALL other potential causes of death remain.

Gun or any other type of weapon

Lightning Strike

Carbon Monoxide

Carbon Dioxide

Cyanide Exposure

Illegal Drugs / Alcohol

Suicide

4 threads later and you just know it will end up being fucking heat stroke.

They have taken a lot of potential causes off the table. Thanks for posting, R192.

[quote]Many toxicology reports have been completed; however, we are still pending a few key results. We have no timeline for those pending results.

No timeline? It's just chaos and entropy over there? Brilliant PR messaging. smh

I notice they haven't ruled out Foreign Factions yet.

R196 or mothers.

No Fentynal?

There's a strong possibility that they OD'd on a drug called 'Foolish Unwise Careless Knuckleheaded Unfit Parents' or FUCK UPs for short. Unfortunately, it won't show up in the tox report.

I think Brian Laundrie killed them.

[quote]It's just chaos and entropy over there?

No thoughts, just vibes.

Seriously, though, illegal drugs and alcohol being ruled out must have made a lot of our old thread regulars really unhappy.

[quote] a drug called 'Foolish Unwise Careless Knuckleheaded Unfit Parents' or FUCK UPs for short. Unfortunately, [bold]it won't show up in the tox report.[/bold]

Where may one find some of this? Of course, asking for a friend (as though it had to be said).

Wonder if there will be a COD announced in October?

At this point, it's looking like the CIA must have been involved in their deaths. Why else would they still be holding back the cause?

They killed those two lesbians and then Brian killed them - it’s like a triple cross Mob movie.

how long has it been? should the results be back now?

Yes.

They are back. Didn’t you guys read?

They ruled out anything in their toxicology report, i.e., no overdose or anything unusual.

so how the fuck did they die? from what? exposure?

Um, if we knew that, r209; this thread would’ve died a month ago.

Did you not recognize the whole reason for this thread?

No cause of death has been announced yet.

If it turns out to be heat stroke, that is a diagnosis of exclusion when there are no witnesses. Findings of any COD will be more difficult by the bodies being out in the elements and very high heat for 72+ hours.

Final tox results are not all back and until they are, no COD.

It’s not a tumah!

By the time they figure it out, it won’t even make the news.

How pathetic it is that there are a few of us curious stragglers waiting around to hear about this family and Gabby/Brian? Wouldn't it be nice if answers were always revealed like the end of a movie. Maybe no resolutions and these threads will be shelved like Jon Benet has been.

Sorry for bumping this understandably dead thread, but doesn't anyone find it strange that their family members and/or friends aren't banging the drum in the media to get some answers/full tox reports released?

Unless they know, and they know it's not going to be a good look?

Still team heatstroke, but this is getting ridiculous.

The only thing that would look bad is illicit drugs, and they’ve been ruled out.

Both the family and the Sheriff's Office have said they are in close communication so I don't think they need the media. Just waiting on labs and a final COD which will likely be heat stroke.

HS is also not a good look with a 12 month old in tow and a furry dog, but, maybe this will make others think about heat differently.

I agree that it is kind of weird that the family isn’t publicly asking for COD. Obviously they value privacy, I’m sure they are still reeling.

[quote]Unless they know, and they know it's not going to be a good look?

^^This. The family has been spinning the "mysterious" bullshit since day one because their idiot children attempted a dangerous hike with a baby and fucking killed themselves and the kid.

Actually it was the LE with the mysterious narrative and fears of a hazmat site. But, did not pan out.

I would also think to settle their estate and for insurance purposes they need a cause of death. But it all silently keeps dragging out. It is so down-low with extra crickets, and that's become the most creepy part of this.

I don't think you need a cause of death to settle estates. There may be some CODs that need to be ruled out like suicide if there is some insurance suicide clause but other than that what difference would it make.

Unless the family wants a COD they can use to base a law suit on.

I thought this might be a heartwarming 'second coming,' story where the baby and dog would rise from the dead and get their own show on The PTL Network. Each week's new episode would have the baby dragging its' dolly and doggy around the country warning everyone of the dangers of heat stroke: "Only you can prevent an interminable thread on DL! Stay hydrated, my friends."

[quote] dragging its' dolly and doggy

Oh, dear!

The issue is not hydration but cooking from the inside, duh.

Why not today? Who knows? But tomorrow we will have our answer.

Couldn't he have washed his hair for that? Is that their wedding?

Thanks for the update, R226.

Yes and yes, R227.

Thanks, r226!

Purportedly there is a series of posts on the MP SO Facebook by a Chuck Stone, who was/is a CALFIRE chief. He had a similar hike with a dog on SL and came close to death by misjudging the heat and conditions. I do not have FB but if someone does, perhaps you could cut and paste the thread for us? It is said to be around the end of Sept/early October, I believe. Or maybe there is a way to search from Chuck Stone's posts?

Chuck Stone's post:

[quote] Nicole Fleming Heat stroke, especially fatal, is very uncommon in human beings too. I've had heat stroke, and I had it on a hike in and out of Hites Cove (on the lesser used Savage-Lundy Trail) when I hiked down to the river with my wife and dogs. We started at about 9 am, but after swimming and a snack we started walking out, but later than we had intended. The temperature that day was about 106 at about noon. My dogs paws were burned and one of my dogs was so badly affected by the heat, she collapsed. I made a sling for her from my t-shirt, so I could carry her. We rationed what little water we had between all of us. I had drank deeply from the flowing river so I thought I was ok. A little before the top I stopped sweating, and I knew I had heat stroke, being a retired firefighter. I tried calling for help but there was no cell coverage. I nearly died just trying to make the last 1/2 mile to my truck at the top of Hites Cove road at the gate. Fortunately, I had an ice chest with some water at the top, and we lived. But yeah, dogs and people rarely get heat stroke (much less die) , but it happens.

Thanks very much, R231. Sounds harrowing for sure.

I had a heat related emergency in the past and when you stop sweating it is a very bad sign. Glad that Mr. Stone had access to ice and was close enough to get to the truck. I suspect the GC family had a similar experience on the same trail but in even hotter conditions.

Sheriff will announce findings tomorrow (Thursday.) From today's SFChronicle:

"Mariposa County investigators will end the mystery of how a family and their dog died together on a remote hiking trail when they announce their causes of death Thursday. The Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office said Wednesday it will hold a news conference “regarding the cause of death and final investigative update on the Gerrish/Chung case.” 'No interviews or information will be given prior to the conference,' the sheriff’s office said in a brief announcement. The sheriff will announce the findings 2 p.m. Thursday. Jonathan Gerrish, 45, Ellen Chung, 31, their 1-year-old daughter Miju and dog Oski, were found dead on the Hites Cove Trail on Aug. 16. For two months, investigators have tried to determine what could have killed all of them in a case that has baffled law enforcement and observers. Investigators believe the family died on a steep switchback about 1.5 miles below where they parked their vehicle after completing most of the looping trail. In the weeks since their deaths, investigators have ruled out out a number of possible causes of death, such as a lightning strike, mine fumes, suicide, illegal drugs and other signs of foul play. Authorities have said the family hiked during extreme heat and the water sources along the trail tested positive for toxic algae blooms."

The press conference will take place at 5 eastern time.

A local station has said they will stream, linked below. If anyone finds other streams, please post.

.....

The stream is live at link above

Hyperthermia

This cop sounds like he can barely read. What the fuck.

He is a rural sheriff in Central CA.

The dumbass parents and pet owners were the ones who decided to hike in full sun in 109 degree weather, the inadequate water was the cherry on the sundae. They took 4 lives, not so IG worthy, eh?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Video of press conference

It is worth watching the helicopter video of the trail/terrain.

Dopamine chasing couched as loving nature is no less dangerous. The SL trail is the stuff of nightmares.

They did not even have sufficient water for 1 for that hike in high temps, never mind 4, and not even a filter, not that it would take out the algae toxins, but algae does not kill adults. SO insanely reckless, ALL of it. With a 12 month old and double coated dog dragged along to their deaths.

They basically cooked themselves, the baby and dog.

Their core temps got so hot their brains and other organs failed = hyperthermia.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. No one found them because NO ONE ELSE was out on those trails in that heat. AND they did not even bring an appropriate amount of water for the number of bodies, not that the heat would not have gotten them anyway.

......

Sad.

Thanks, R243. Baffling. That trail just looks like SO much work for very little reward.

There was an extreme heat warning. It is as hard to understand their recklessness now as when it first happened.

And so little water. There are online guides about how much to carry based on conditions. Did they think they were above the rules of human physiology?

8 is when you should be FINISHING a hike in that weather, not starting.

That trail is the stuff of NIGHTMARES.

More like "Officials Disclose-ish". All that wait for this? And add in "possible" (hey, it coulda happened!) dehydration. Fucking dreadful handling of this case. The language is so vague. They still haven't reached a conclusion re: the dog, but it "appears" to be heat related. You think? But seriously, they still haven't reached a solid conclusion? What have they been doing this whole time?

FBI is *still* working on the phone?

No full tox report?

Updates will be posted at the article below. After 2 months this should have been sorted and not in need of any fucking updates.

Whatever.

The disgust should be reserved for the adults who chose to go on a hike in 109+ degree temps and who murdered their infant and double coated dog. There was an extreme heat warning, there is NO excuse for their recklessness. Dopamine chasing and determined that parenthood would not slow them down.

The dog and baby had no choice but to be dragged along to their deaths.

r249 Don't worry, I have a fuckton of disgust for those two as well.

[quote]A Central California family found dead on a hiking trail in August died from hyperthermia and possible dehydration

Hey, what about us?

No dog bowl for water. Fuck them!

Well that was a long wait for....the obvious. Heat stroke and dehydration! Not the big mystery law enforcement made it out to be in the beginning.

Hyperthermia, huh? You don’t say! When you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras.

I can’t stand parents who don’t seem to understand that having a kid means everything changes. If you can’t put the needs of the child first, then pull out, wear a condom or take the morning after pill. How dumb do you have to be to take a baby and a thick-coat dog out in 105 degree heat? Anything for bragging rights on the ‘gram!

In two days, this case and the Brian Laundrie case solved in the expected, Occam's Razor manner.

I get that people enjoy wild speculating, but it's so stupid.

The only ones I feel sorry for in this sordid tale are the baby and dog, both of whom had no choice.

Agreed; hindsight is always 20/20, but it's hard to look at that barren terrain & think that a hike on a brutally hot afternoon - with very little water & two dependents was a good idea..

And they had a home with a lovely in ground pool, R257. But where is the dopamine chasing in lounging there?

Poor baby and poor Oski.

[quote]I can’t stand parents who don’t seem to understand that having a kid means everything changes.

Those two were a deadly combination of thrill seeking, arrogance, disorganization, brain damage (literally) and magical thinking. They were barely able to keep themselves safe much less other helpless creatures who depended on them for survival.

Spot on, R259.

They did not even wear hats, have a collapsible dog bowl or carry water sufficient for 1 in those temps for that length hike, never mind 4. They did not carry a filtration system to refill at the river (algae does not kill adult humans). They were poseurs, dressed in shorts and tank tops, not for a hike in terrain locals knew to avoid from late spring until fall. They had visited the area for years and he was a member of the Mariposa Trails FB group, NO EXCUSE to do something so risky that killed an infant and double coated older dog. Just garbage humans.

Brought this over because I posted in the wrong thread.

Improper clothing , no hats, improper shoes, left one hour later than recommended for the hot summer months. No water bowl for that loyal, helpless little dog, no protection for his tender paw pads. Left no instructions for anyone to check on them if they were late coming home, and of course the shockingly inadequate amount of water, which for that hike was not enough for even ONE person. Stupid fucking baby killers. If that bitch had lived, either of them, they would have most likely been charged with criminal child endangerment at the LEAST. ( If they had survived ) Obviously they were the only two people who mattered in their minds and even helpless little ones had to fit into their lifestyle, no matter the discomfort and danger to them. What selfish rotten cunts. I hope Oski and Miju went quickly. Brutal way to die. Just wanted to add that the SLT will forever be a haunted, dystopian hell scape.

I still say it was the algae what done ‘em in.

Stupidity did them in. And arrogance. But people are still arguing about this and they refuse to accept what most of us figured out within one minute of learning what the temperature was that day. " We are being lied to! No way did ALL of them DIE at the SAME time of the SAME thing!" " And the DOG too! " " Nah! " Sigh.

R258 I was wrong when I previously posted that the house with the pool was where they were currently living. They had moved to another home near the trailhead. I can't find the address to search on Realtor.com to see the listing.

I remember one photo that Ellen had posted on her IG that showed Oski sleeping on a round floor pillow in the living room. The wall had rustic mismatched wooden planks. Through the large window, you could see trees, a paver stone patio, and a BBQ underneath a metal terracotta canopy. Ellen's friend had left a comment about it looked good

People have been referring to the blonde, older woman who lives in Mariposa and posts a lot about being friends with Chung + Gerrish as being their real estate broker. I think she was their house manager who managed their Airbnb homes and not their broker.

According to his posts on Mariposa Trails FB, their real estate broker who sold them multiple homes was a guy who works for a luxury homes realty.

I thought they had one in Darrah(?) And the other was Jerseydale? Both probably spelled incorrectly but that is all I can remember.

[quote]SLT will forever be a haunted, dystopian hell scape.

Ya think?

A friend described Jon spending time in their pool with the baby so they may have had multiple houses with pools.

Once the core goes over 105 the clock is ticking until death without significant cooling and medical intervention and the window before brain damage and multiple organ failure can be as narrow as 30 minutes. It was 109+ and they were hiking up a very steep trail. The human and canine body is not meant to discharge that much heat. There was no shade and the switchbacks are in full sun.

The arrogance is astounding.

R265 I think the Darah house is the one with the swimming pool and tiki bar.

It has to be the Jerseydale house that was the last house that they bought, recently renovated, and were living in. It is that has that was near the trailhead.

I can't find anything about them not wearing hats or proper shoes. Where did you guys read or hear that?

The press conference the Sheriff did on Friday.

Thanks, R270

It is on YT. The helicopter vid of the SL trail is well worth the watch.

This video of the Savage Lundy Trail taken from a helicopter really shows the horror of the trail. Seeing it on Google Satellite View or videos that were posted by hikers just isn't the same.

Ugh...i really don't see any draw to that trail...it's not a very pretty area and yeah, that trail looks like hell to climb. I love hiking but i would have thoroughly researched any new trail on Alltrails.com and I go by comments, especially the most recent ones. What a fiery hot hell it must have been trying to climb out of there.

What goes down must come up.

Per the press conference, JG was carrying the baby in a backpack along with the only water bladder they had with them. EC was not wearing even a daypack and carried no additional water. They were dressed in shorts and tank tops, nothing that would shield them from sun, and had no hats.

The lesson they seemed to learn from the close call at altitude "all the gear and no idear" her IG post read, was to drop most gear and travel light. Even with an infant in tow, and not even a collapsible dog water dish. No small water filtration system to add to their woefully inadequate supply.

These were not experienced hikers, they were dopamine chasers who spent time outdoors. It was 105 the day before and there was an extreme heat advisory. They did not think such lowly mortal considerations applied to them, apparently.

I hope that the baby and the older, very furry dog did not suffer too much. SAR dogs had to be pulled due to burning paws on the trail. Both adults are responsible, shame 2 others lost their lives.

R276- Inexcusable callousness. I think everything they did was superficial, only for appearances and bragging rights, including parenthood. They appear to have been very shallow, selfish, egotistical people. They were determined to get their power hike in that day, no matter the danger and misery to the two little dependants who had no choice and were hostages on that hellish hike to their death. J&E could have, and should have, turned around and gone back at some point in that hike before it was too late. So if we put aside how woefully unprepared they were, my question would be why didn't they do that? It HAD to have been a miserable hike well before they reached the SLT. Were they just that fucking stupid? They could not have been anything except miserable long before the catastrophic end. They had no salt replacement so they must have been experiencing stomach cramps from the excessive sweating. Or maybe I am wrong about that, but there is no damn way they weren't already very uncomfortable, is there? Mental illness? Drug abuse? Death by narcissism?

I do wonder if her traumatic brain injury from 12 years or so earlier had impaired her decision making in some way.

Gerrish seems like an arrogant tech bro. There was something he wanted to do so nothing that would counter it was allowed to register.

Why no electrolytes and why she did not have a pack with another water bladder and why they did not have at least hats is all a mystery to me quite honestly.

It had been hot all week and 105 the day before so the weather and temps could not have been a complete surprise.

I think they were chasing dopamine and got in way over their heads. How do you go from the close call and post of "all the gear and no idear" to not even carrying water yourself? That she did not even have a daypack is just astonishing.

That is astonishing, but then the entire death hike is. She seemed to be very spoiled, imo. I read on some blog months ago that she slept all day while the nanny watched the baby. They both were home all day, he worked from home, she slept. How spoiled and entitled do you have to be to think nothing can bad ever happen to you? That you have no responsibility to anyone except yourself? Just really boggles the mind. They suffered a horrific death, but so did the only two there who were innocent and should have been protected and loved. Neither of them put their child or pet first. Had they lived they would be facing a manslaughter charge, criminal child neglect and endangerment and who knows what else. Utterly heartless.

They must've overestimated their abilities and strength. Also, this was very close to home--statistics say that the closer you are to home, the more accidents you have because of a false sense of security--you under-prepare and underestimate risks.

People are stupid. Close calls happen, and sometimes a close call turns into a real call and you die. They did it in a spectacular way, all together in a national park. Others do it by climbing up a wobbly ladder to do some roof work.

True, but I will never understand why they didn't at least turn back. I have been reading some of the comments from people who refuse to accept HS as COD. I wonder if her family have anything to do with people not accepting the final report?

He was the one who planned the hike, R281.

The sleeping all day thing was from a sock puppeting troll bounced from another board. Likely completely made up.

They did look strained in the 1st birthday photos. He was divorced and there was a huge age difference. Then moving to rural central CA from SF, the isolation of the pandemic and parenthood, another huge adjustment. Possibly a horrific final day to cap a tense and unhappy year.

Dopamine chasing can kill you. And sadly, others. That runner Kreycik did super risky things with his kid too, just did not take him out with him the day he died. Being outdoorsy is not necessarily wholesome. Seems like it can mask a lot of other issues and reckless behavior.

I still am stuck on how you can go from a close call and post "all the gear and no idear" and then have an infant, not only not become more cautious BUT skip the gear as if THAT is the solution. Maybe her debilitating illness that caused her to quit the corp world made it difficult to carry a pack?

They were poseurs who fit well in a world of adventure tourism and BM and djing, maybe not so much in the middle of nowhere, the nearest small town a 20 mile drive and cooped up working and going to school from home.

There is nothing happy about poor Miju's bday photos, even the baby looks solemn as is often the case in a tense home.

John planned the hike, and seemed to favor steep climbs on other hikes he did, the attempts to blame Ellen are silly. He was the dominant partner who made the money, relocated them, researched the trail and had been on it before. He was also on the Mariposa Trails FB group. There are descriptions of the trails in that canyon that advise avoiding them from late spring until fall, people with more common sense did, which is why they were not found for days on the trail.

109+ is not survivable for humans or canines. Once the brain goes over 105 the window of time is short if there is to be a chance of survival. Wonder what Gerrish's first wife thinks?

Usually one parent is more reckless and one more cautious. Here, the poor kid had no chance. I do wonder if EC had always been that way and that contributed to the accident that caused the TBI. Even with recovery, years later depression is much more likely. Gerrish did not seem protective of her either, a TBI can make you more sensitive to heat stroke.

There are a lot of people in SF like JG. Wonder if he missed the attention from djing, BM, etc, and pushed the limits even harder as some men do in middle age?

Because the farther you get from 'unknown, mysterious causes,' the closer you get to recklessness and stupidity. Of course, the family doesn't want to highlight that, and the last news article really soft-soaped it with gauzy words and phrases. But we're not fooled. Anyone who has had a close call at those altitudes can see it clear as day. They were fucked before they started.

I am sure both families were well acquainted with their reckless tendencies.

My dog has overheated on a hike in high 70s temps in direct sun and that was a one-time learning experience for me. I never take her on a short neighborhood walk even when it’s 79 or so. To think they took a baby and a dog on hike WITHOUT a water bowl for the dog when it was high 80s/low 90s when they STARTED (100s along the hike) is just insane to me.

Are we sure this wasn’t purposeful? I know they ruled out suicide, but any dog owner with half a brain knows that heat is extremely dangerous and dogs always need water on hikes. It’s just hard to fathom this level of f’ing stupidity and lack of caring.

It’s fucking weird how you shut-ins on these threads have invented personalities for the whole family, baby included. She was a narcissist! He was arrogant! The baby was depressed! You only have to look at the conspiracy nutters on Twitter who refuse to accept the cause of death, people do not want to accept the idea that heat can kill. It’s only in the fevered DL mind that these people were depraved murderers.

R286, see R285.

No one else in the area was on those trails for DAYS in that heat or they would have been found.

Why were they?

They had to see the depth of the canyon, know it would be a long steep climb out, feel the rising heat and know the water packed in was not even enough for one. Why continue and not turn back?

I assume the dog was to drink from the river, and go without before and after.

I see the point of this conversation; the simple answer is that these two were clueless & arrogant, which may be true, but given the extreme heat, the isolation of the spot, the knowledge about the trail and presumably savviness hiking does make you wonder if it was some kind of desire to end things between the two parents.

They had had close calls before in their "adventures" so do not think this was out of character for them. In the birthday photos of the kid they both look strained, but do not think that they meant to off themselves. They went from close call and a flippant "all the gear and no idear" to minimal gear and no idear. Dopamine chasers gonna chase and many previous supplies were cut off by cv, no BM, no SF nightlife, no dj sets, no adventure travels. Just SL and Devil's Gulch.

Guys, guys, has anyone said yet that the woman once posted on Instagram “all the gear and no idear” yet?

I hear that’s breaking.

Oh, that’s right, r289 mentioned it five times already among her 175 posts in this thread.

Dopamine chasers gonna chase.

Sucks to be their kid or their dog.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

.....

Yikes, what a grim read. Horrific way to die knowing your carelessness killed your baby. WHY take so little water? Ellen did not have a pack, she could have worn another bladder. Would not have been enough, esp since heat was likely to kill anyway but would have been twice as much as they had. Spandex shorts but no pack with water? Poor priorities. Carried a snakebite kit but did not check the temps or terrain? None of it makes sense. Dopamine chasing is dangerous.

[quote] The family appeared to catastrophically underestimate just how dangerous their trek would be with temperatures reaching 109 degrees on a steep path locals knew to avoid during the summer. Crucially, it appeared they hadn’t brought enough water.

[quote] A survival trainer told detectives the terrain, elevation and heat were a “deadly trifecta.”

So, in other words....nothing new. A survivalist's opinion about how it all unfolded -- the infant succumbed to hyperthermia/dehydration before the adults, and they were probably trying to save it.

Well, fucking DUH! I think anyone with a basic understanding of human physiology understood that the infant succumbed to heat/dehydration before the adults.

Obv the cause of death did not change but there are way more details in the report from LE than had been previously known.

That map in the Daily Mail article at R292 (showing where their car was parked in relation to where their bodies were found) is completely wrong. That is not where their car was parked, that is not where they started the hike.

I think this goes in the record books as one of the most lengthy, repetitive, and pointless discussions ever to grace the pages of the DL.

More concerning is the fact I've read every single post on all four threads. Fool me once...

I have to say, the DM posters demonstrated unusual restraint in their comments about the couple; not even any speculation as to whether or not they were democrats/Biden supporters (therefore prone to bad decisions...)

I get the idea that they were new to the area & possibly didn't realize how quickly the temperature would climb, though if 2 miles in when it got really hot they had just doubled back & returned to the trail head, they'd be alive today.

The guy had owned property in the area since 2016 and often spent weekend hiking there. Lots of attempts to try to pretty up their recklessness.

I can't believe they would not take the baby out of the backpack if they thought she was dying/had died. She would have been cooler not in the nylon casing. So odd that it was on the support feet and she was in it. Maybe the father felt too weak to hold her, dunno. One more inexplicable thing. There have to be a lot of dumb people in central CA, like anywhere, but they were literally the only ones on those trails for days. It had been 105 the day before, so...could not have been that much of a surprise. Jon had also hiked in Devil's Gulch previously. Dopamine chasers who did what they wanted to do and disregarded any information to the contrary.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Well, let's see the fucking selfies that were so important to them . Not 90 minutes later they were frantically dialing for help (forgetting to dial 911 though that likely wouldn't have connected either)

Maddening. That poor kid and that poor dog.

I looked up the trail the hiked, and still don’t understand. I regularly hike 10+ miles with a 2 liter thermos of water. How did they manage to go into distress on a 4-5 mile trail?

R304, the temp was over 109 nearby, perhaps hotter in the canyon and there was no shade due to prior wildfires. There were 3 humans and a dog sharing the small amount of water they carried. Devil's Gulch is extremely deep and the elevation changes to climb out of it are significant. thus switchbacks. If you look at the trail on Google Earth you will get a better sense, although the images are prior to the wildfires taking out the trees. Climbing up the SL switchbacks they were in direct sun. Others have gotten into trouble, including a local fire captain, at more temperate times of the year. Locals avoid the trail during the summer months; thus, they were not found for days.

The sherrif's dept had a video that really captured the terrain, there are also pics on a facebook group from when the trail was restored following the fire.

I still cannot fathom why Ellen Chung carried no water unless to do so would have interfered with the aesthetic of her outfit.

It's a shame they had no computers or computer access at home so they could google how babies and dogs handle heat.

I hope Biden fulfills his promise to ensure that all underserved people can finally get internet. Maybe the ionization from their swimming pool interfered with reception.

Now, now, R306. It had been 105 the day before in their neighborhood, so not sure how that did not influence the hike plan, except I suspect that their Burning Man outings and adventure tour of Gobi had made them think themselves above such plebe concerns.

Looking at the map with timestamps for photos and attempted calls/texts they got into trouble pretty quickly. There was a blog post in one of the threads that talked about how deep the canyon was and turning around due to heat and that was in the spring, not in a heat wave in the summer. One reviewer said the depth was "scary" and his/her group did not attempt it, also spring visitors. They really were not thinking at all it seems. And not even an attempt at a 911 call seems esp strange. They did not even have hats and were dressed more for the Gram than the terrain. Odd folks. Really sad for the helpless tot and dog who had no choice. Both of them would have overheated first.

Had they gone back down to the river and stayed there until the sun was off the trail they might have lived. The change in elevation in direct sun with extreme heat radiating off the trail was not wise to attempt. The SARS dogs were burning their paws on the trail when it was cooler and earlier in the day, their poor older dog must really have been suffering.

This is one of the saddest stories I’ve heard. I do not understand the posters here who are sure they were doing it for the aesthetics, for their outfits, to brag on instagram. Inhumane.

Babies do not need to be outside - let alone on hikes - when the weather is hot like 90 or above. Babies are perfectly happy and healthy at home. If you somehow think they need to be outside in hot weather, then buy a cheap blow-up pool at Target and fill it with water in the backyard or balcony and let them sit in it for about 10 minutes - while shaded.

Parents use their kids like they use their pets. Dragging them everywhere they go. Unwilling to forego what they want to do even when they are parents.

Poor baby. Poor doggie. They deserved better. So simple and easy to do the right thing.

Why do you think they dragged an infant and a double coated dog on a death march in steep terrain with minimal water when it was 109+, R308?

They were very big on IG and adventure tourism, djing and attending festivals, per their own social media.

They owned multiple homes, including one with a pool.

Jon was on a local FB trail group and had owned homes in the area since 2016. Locals avoided that trail during summer months, thus them not being found for days. He had resources to seek guidance.

They were dopamine chasers. Anyone who hiked down, down, down into Devil's Gulch had to understand the effort needed to climb back up and out on a visceral level. Ellen did not even wear a pack, explain why she did not carry ANY water, R308? Arrogance and hubris seemed to be guiding forces, and they did post a lot of social media, including reportedly posting the empty baby backpack on FB early on the day they all died.

Of course it is sad, particularly for the baby and dog who must have suffered greatly and who had NO choice.

For those who missed the video of the terrain, imagine standing at the top of the trail and looking down at that and thiniking it was wise, despite a heat advisory, despite it having been 105 the day before, despite the tree cover having burned off. Babies and dogs can only dissipate so much heat. The temps that day were well over what was survivable for an adult human, and in this case there was not enough water brought for 1, never mind 4, and the change in elevation was very demanding.

To the dopamine/Instagram troll: maybe it was just ignorance. They had hiked a lot and thus maybe had a false sense of security. They lived nearby, which also gives people a false sense of security. Maybe they didn't realize that this trail was much harder than ones they'd done before. They didn't consider how much hotter it would be on the trail than in their backyard. Maybe they didn't know how steep the ascent out is, or that the tree cover had been burned off.

I assume, based on their early start and small amount of water, that they thought they'd be in and out in 2 hours.

The fact that the phone had fucking SELFIES taken much more than an hour before they were freaking out tells us a LOT about their personality type. They were taking photos the entire time from the start, but far from when they should have been in the car back from their horribly ill advised adventure, they were still clicking, clicking, clicking. And then begging, begging, begging.

I don't get not even attempting to call 911. They needed a helicopter to get them out of that deep gulch. Not calls to friends that did not go through. I thought calls to 911 are more likely to go through with poor service? Not sure where I read that. It seemed like the crisis was slow to dawn on them. Wasn't it 7 or 8 miles with very steep changes in elevation? Maybe if they have left earlier. There are reviews of the trail that were posted on earlier threads that had people overcome, turning around, or not even attempting the gulch, one called it "scary mountain" and those posts were all from spring.

That they were just taking photos and getting their dopamine on until it was literally a life or death crisis seems so hard to believe. If the search dogs on Tuesday morning were burning paws on the trail, surely their dog was suffering in higher heat on Sunday afternoon? I still think if they had stayed at the river or gone back down to it until the sun was off Savage Lundy they would have had a better chance. To climb up an elevation so steep it needed switchbacks in direct sun when out of water (Ellen did not even carry a pack at all) was likely to fail. Maybe by then they were so overheated that they could not think clearly. The baby had to be so hot in a nylon carrier and the dog had a double coat. How did Jon and Ellen not key in to their overheating?

Were they trying to "sweat off" some cv weight? Did that play into the lack of water? In photos before her IG was made private, Ellen did wear packs, why did she carry nothing that day? I get the idea of travelling light and moving quickly but all of the reviews of the trail from spring talked about how hot the canyon gets and to bring a LOT of water. Even without the extreme temps they did not have enough for 4, nor did they carry any type of water filtering device, which is common. Hell, in those temps, as an adult, I would have drunk the river water unfiltered, toxins be damned. I would have saved the safer water for the dog and baby but even immersion in the river could have been life saving had they paused there or just reversed course.

Why not at least try to call and text 911? Also, for people of means, who liked to hike, with a BABY, it is still unfathomable that they would not carry a PLB. It might not have gotten a signal, or it could have saved them all.

I don't care what his app did or did not show, it was a 7-8 mile hike in very arduous terrain with an extreme heat warning in effect. Standing on the ridge, looking down, this is what they saw.

[quote] This is one of the saddest stories I’ve heard. I do not understand the posters here who are sure they were doing it for the aesthetics, for their outfits, to brag on instagram. Inhumane.

It's common sense that they had planned to post photos & film of this accomplishment on Instagram, YouTube, wherever.

If you've ever seen a thirsty dog drink water, you'd pack a ton of water.

The police said she didn't have her phone with her, r316, as was mentioned about one hundred fucking million times in these threads, so no, it's NOT "common sense" that they were doin' this for the 'gram.

[quote]I think this goes in the record books as one of the most lengthy, repetitive, and pointless discussions ever to grace the pages of the DL.

DL is unfortunately full of the kind of people who think that, if they just repeat their asinine theories over and over again for months and months, they will become true. You also have the newbies who come into threads demanding answers instead of just scrolling or doing a CTRL-F for keywords, plus a few people who have based their personal self worth on winning internet arguments.

Per the sheriff, they did not have a collapsible bowl for the dog, they can be killed by the algae bloom toxin unlike adult humans so presumably he would not be allowed to drink from the river and they had one water bladder, no bottles. Not sure how the dog was supposed to drink, normally one bites on a connected hose to get the water to flow. Since it was hot enough for the trail to burn the pads of his paws, perhaps the dog was carried at some point. Horrific way to go, very sad for all of them. CA has charged people who have taken dogs on trails in extreme heat, other dogs also died last summer. Even with all that publicity that runner got for dying from heat on a CA trail, a few weeks later, this family did the same, without seeming to grasp the risk, even close to death. Maybe this will be a cautionary tale for someone, but, probably not.

Jon had his phone, the one they were using to take photos at all the timestamps on the sheriff's map.

^R317, did you miss the part of the articles where the sheriff describes the photos they took of nature and the family along the trail on Gerrish's PHONE? They were in shorts and tank tops without even hats and they had a long history of documenting their #Jellon Adventures on social media, along with their djing at Burning Man and other festivals, etc. They were not focused on caution or safety, bringing water that was not enough for 1, never mind 4, and no small filtration kit. They had to be thinking about something other than the wellbeing of the dog or baby they were about to kill, what was their focus? Oh, photos. On the camera of the phone they did have with them.