What Cleopatra Possibly Looked Like

This

3,2,1...#cleosowhite

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Anyone who disagrees that Cleopatra looked exactly like this is a fascist.

You mofos.

lol he made all of them so pale

Cleopatra was from a Macedonian Greek family that practiced incestuous marriages (including marrying siblings) to keep the bloodline pure.

R7- It did keep the bloodline pure-

PURELY INCESTUOUS

She was supposed to be more of a package than just beauty. Witty, educated, fluent in a couple of languages, crafty and ambitious. That coupled with the better than average looking woman depicted here shows why Caesar and Mark Antony were captivated.

And, r9, she could both bring home the bacon *and* fry it up in a pan!

These reconstructions are bullshit. They assume that the portraits (which were driven as much by convention as by the looks of the individual) represent what the person actually looked like; then they tweak the appearance to modern standards (as seen especially in the second Cleopatra portrait).

Well, besides Caesar and Mark Antony, evidence suggests she also married two of her brothers and killed them afterwards.

R11 I believe it uses AI and 3-D projections with a type of software helping to render these reconstructions. Before, there used to be artist-sculptors who’d reconstruct the old fashioned way, sometimes used to try to identify Jane or John Doe victims.

I'm sure she looked like Beyoncé!

She was not Black, period. Accept and move on.

I love the perfect skin. Wasn't Cleopatra a teenager? With perfect skin? How about teeth pre-dentistry?

What r9 said -- that was my take-away from my ancient history class where Cleo was discussed.

And RE the perfect teeth, r15: actually, wonky teeth are modern phenomenon. Ancient people ate a LOT less sugar (like, not even a tenth the amount we eat today) and chewed much tougher food, so they rarely had massive tooth problems. I'm always astonished when I see mummies or old (middle ages and before) skulls, and they all seem to have all their teeth, and perfectly aligned to boot.

She was no Helen of Troy, that’s for sure.

Cleopatra had her brothers killed before they got older and would kill her. It was a very prudent decision.

She had charisma in spades and was very intelligent as well.

I'm the *only* Cleopatra Jones, r13.

He has a whole series of historical reconstructions on his Youtube channel and they're quite interesting.

Ancient people’s teeth were worn down from the coarse ground wheat they used in their breads. But the rotting problems really started with sugar becoming common after 1500.

She was pretty enough, and with her Egyptian ways seemed a bit mysterious as well. Plus she was RICH BITCH (to quote Dave Chappelle).

Also, Caesar and Antony were renowned male sluts seducing any woman or boy in their vicinity. Anthony was a handsome guy by any standard and Caesar was considered good looking for his time even if prematurely balding. Caesar also was tall for his time-5’11 I think.

Caesar was notorious for his bisexuality even during his lifetime. He was called "every woman's husband and every husband's wife." Fucking boys and servants was more or less accepted but he bottomed, which was considered scandalous for a man of his social position.

Where did it say that Caesar bottomed, R24?

He crossed the Rubicunt.

@r25, Yeah, pics or it didn't happen

"Archeologists have found that many Egyptian royals were overweight, owing at least in part to a diet heavy in beer and bread. However, incest may also have played a role. Cleopatra herself had a hooked nose, a round face, and fat hanging under her chin. Roman propaganda probably showed her as being the indomitable beauty that we think of today, but she wasn’t the Elizabeth Taylor who played her in the 1963 movie."

She was a fat white inbred Greek frau.

^ Thank-you, throughout history inbred royals were always hideous mutants why would Cleopatra be any different?

If that reconstruction is realistic, then Cleo looked like a cross between Mel C and Cher

I just don't get why twitter wants to pretend a woman of greek decent that her family practice was incest would be black? Is twitter trying to act like Greeks are black now. Lmao.

She was notorious for not being beautiful but having a great intellect.

And she was 100% greek

Cloepatra was no beauty, coins show

Did Cleopatra look like Miss. Cleo?

R24- Bottoming is also considered SCANDALOUS for a GAY man of YOUR social position.

R9, plus, she was Queen of Egypt, and had an army and fabulous wealth. That was probably the key thing, really.

30 Helens of Troy agree: Cleopatra was no great beauty.

Cleopatra, Nefertiti, Jesus Christ were white, white,white.

Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony may have been charmed by her, but they were mainly were dazzled by the prospects of becoming the heads of Egypt, which was the breadbasket of the Empire. Whomever controlled Rome's access to Egyptian grain controlled Rome itself. It would mean a permanent grip on Imperial power, along with, as r38 points out, an additional army which would be personally loyal to the individual who married Cleopatra rather than to Rome itself.

For anyone aspiring to be Emperor or First Citizen of Rome, bagging Cleopatra was the key to potentially unlimited power.

I meant r36^^^ not r38

I’ve worked with 2 colleagues (physicians) who are Egyptian, one actually from Egypt and the other one who was born here to Egyptian parents who immigrated here. I thought one of them was Italian until she told me about trips to Egypt to see extended family members. The other one looked Middle Eastern/ Jewish. They showed me photos of their large families in Egypt, frankly most of them looked like a cross between Mediterranean and Middle Eastern That’s not to say most Egyptians don’t have darker skin or African features. But the impression I got from talking to my colleagues is that there’s a strain of colorism in Egypt, such that light-skinned people with Euro features are considered more beautiful.

Queen though she was she still had to deal with being a woman in a man's world giving birth to Antony's twins and finding out Antony had married Octavian's sister on the same day

Well, he couldn't marry Cleopatra because she was still married to her brother.

[quote]I just don't get why twitter wants to pretend a woman of greek decent that her family practice was incest would be black? Is twitter trying to act like Greeks are black now. Lmao.

Americans are appallingly uneducated in world history.

r41 Rami Malek is one of those.

Was Cleopatra the one who was a famous cock sucker?

Possibly, r46, but she got 3 children out of Caesar and Marc Anthony, so she was doing far more than sucking cock.

"of greek decent"

Oh dear X2!

Poor r48 has never sucked a cock in his miserable life

Look at Princess Diana. Not beautiful but very attractive and charisma for days. Same as in Cleopatra VII's case.

She asp-ired to more which was her downfall.

What every Roman Emperor possibly looked like

Cleopatra had Greek blood flowing through her veins from 300 years of the Greeks ruling Egypt but taking on some of their traits and clothes. She was not a great beauty but had a dazzling personality, great charm, and a hypnotic voice - and from this she netted 2 of the biggest fish in Rome!

She was 100% Greek.

And Greeks back then were visually closer to Northern Italian, including a high % of blonde hair and blue eyes.

Cleopatra wore a black wig, but no one even knows what her true hair color was.

Surely R49 is also R31.

"Mark Antony, pray tell, how are things in Rome?"

"Rotten."

[quote]Cleopatra wore a black wig, but no one even knows what her true hair color was.

Ancient Egyptians (both men and women) commonly shaved their heads and wore wigs 24/7. It was a big part of their culture.

R33, I saw that same coin on a recent historical TV show of Cleopatra's life. If you google Cleopatra and coin, you can see others with her image. It's not pretty. Who would dare to cast a coin with those images on them, so they would be arrested and killed, without submitting the truth.

The closest historically accurate depiction of what Cleopatra probably looked like is from HBO's Rome.

Another pic of Cleopatra from Rome.

BTW Rome was a great show and was cancelled too soon.

She was Macedonian Greek. So olive-skinned, short stature, black thick hair and brown eyes most likely. Most definitely not a tall and skinny pale-skinned, blue-eyed Northern or Western European like Hollywood portrays. They were African or mixed pharaohs in previous dynasties but she was not one of them. Hollywood should hire more Middle Eastern and North African actors when they make Ancient Egypt films but then again they are just entertainment not documentaries.

Many Macedonians are fair and blue eyed.

R57 = Paul

Funny r57! We can't have a thread about anything Greek without the incomparable songstress Nana Mouskouri.

[quote] She was no Helen of Troy, that’s for sure.

And certainly no Helen of LAWSON, that’s for damn sure!

Check out the BDF on Hadrian at R52.

Vespasian looks exactly like LBJ...lol.

I saw Nana's Live and Sleazy tour with my mom back in 1979. She did her 3rd encore in a robe with a towel wrapped around her head.

I've heard of that Nana Mouskouri concert r69. She covered Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" and did a striptease.

[quote]Cleopatra herself had a hooked nose, a round face, and fat hanging under her chin.

So, she looked a lot like Lens Dunham.

Nana's encore was a cover of "Love to Love You Baby", which she dedicated to "all the alpha males in my life".

This is going to become a Nana Mouskouri thread.

Nana Mouskouri was why the Roman Empire fell.

Cleopatra's father was very heavy, fat, and she inherited some of this from him. She basically dieted all her life. By the way, her father was at least bisexual and like the young palace lads to bottom for him. He loved fucking guys.

The location of Cleopatra's tomb is unknown, but it could now be underwater. Parts of Alexandria from back then are now submerged.

The same YTer who did Cleopatra also has some Roman emperors. Who knew that Marcus Aurelius looked like a darker, hairier version of Chris Watts, or that Lucius Verus was one ancient hottie, I bet he got all the slave boys fighting to service him.

Hello? Is Paul there? May I speak to Paul?

***click***

r4, I'm not a fascist but you're definitely a Republican troll. Notice how they try to make every thread about trans people

"And Greeks back then were visually closer to Northern Italian, including a high % of blonde hair and blue eyes."

Republicans are tripping over themselves to try to pretend she had blonde hair and blue eyes. LOL. Just like they do with Jesus

"Americans are appallingly uneducated in world history."

Coming from someone who probably thinks Trump won the election.....

Nope r81.

r80 Ancient Greeks were more fair than modern Greeks.

r80 many Northern Italians do indeed have blond hair and blue eyes.

Many does not mean all or most. It's pretty clear from images of Cleopatra and the others rulers of Egypt that they weren't WASP-y looking, no matter what you want to believe

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

She descended from 300 years of inbreeding sprung from this mans loins. And bare in mind this is statue propaganda of a man who was already being worshipped as a god by his death. He may have looked worse in reality.

I want Caracalla in me quite deeply. However, I suspect he might kill me after.

[quote]Many does not mean all or most. It's pretty clear from images of Cleopatra and the others rulers of Egypt that they weren't WASP-y looking, no matter what you want to believe

Nobody said that, just that Greeks are white and ancient Greeks were more fair than they are now. That is fact.

r85 have you ever been to Northern Italy?

She had no neck and she preferred her left side.

BTW what was Elizabeth Taylor's ancestry? Did she have some Southern European in her? She certainly looked it.

Ethnicity: English, with one eighth Swiss-German, some Scots-Irish/Northern Irish and French, more distant Dutch, Welsh, and Danish

Thanks r94. She was pretty exotic-looking, I wouldn't have guessed she was 100% Northern European.

For me this has long held the most promising argument for her looks.

You cannot go by coins or the like because they were just reworked casts of the preceding male leaders. They were never meant to be true depictions.

The encaustic portrait found broken in 12 or 14 pieces discovered in 1818 in the ruins of an outbuilding on the grounds of the Emperor Hadrian's villas outside Rome.

^^^

The original paper from 1885 discussing the encaustic portrait.

It was put on display in capitol cities in Europe and in London. So there were witnesses to its image.

Posting R97's link.

Thanks, R98 - dummy me put the link in the wrong box. LOL

Here's a rendering based on hearsay of those who viewed the encaustic image.

I thought Egyptians were darker than that.

r100 she wasn't ethnically Egyptian.

[quote]E the perfect teeth, [R15]: actually, wonky teeth are modern phenomenon. Ancient people ate a LOT less sugar (

Sugar has nothing to do with wonky crooked teeth. Just cavities and tooth loss. Some cultures produce people with naturally straighter teeth than others. If you look at the English and all their inbreeding, that seems to be in tandem with randomly oriented teeth. Italians on the other hand seem on average to have very naturally straight teeth.

R93 I would have thought she had some Southern Europeans in her as well.

[quote] I would have thought she had some Southern Europeans in her as well.

With all the men who fucked her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she did.

Liz got a lot of good dick.

Ptolemy looks like Rachel Maddow.

These real life things are such bullshit. They always want to make people uglier than they might have been. Look at one of the statues they modeled the male after, he had beautiful lips and they morphed him into a dweeb. And statues like that from that era are especially from Roman times were the closest thing we had to accurate depictions of people. Not stylized like Egyptian. There must have been some attractive people of that time.

Despite the "historical value" of this process, it gives me the creeps. Always has.

[quote] Some cultures produce people with naturally straighter teeth than others.

True. Check out the teeth on the Himba people of northern Namibia. And they all look like they just had Zoom Whitening treatments!

She looked like Kim Cattrall...

Is the movie with Liz as Cleopatra any good? Worth watching for costumes alone? Apparently the movie was the most expensive to be made at that time and the expenses almost bankrupted the studio.

r111, it's worth seeing for its pop culture status -- it's the movie where Taylor and Burton met, their affair (they were both married to others at the time) created international headlines, as did the spiraling budget. The sets and costumes are spectacular, and the film features a solid cast -- Rex Harrison is good as Julius Caesar -- but it's also a slow slog at times.

R80, it's not republican. It's actually true. The Romans coveted Greek slaves because of their fair coloring.

It’s nice that there was a time that people didn’t run off and have plastic surgery to correct every flaw, it’s sad you have to go back to ancient times to find it.

^ You could probably go back a 100 years and find little in the way of cosmetic surgery, unless you think the bustle is the precursor to Kardashian butt

A few years ago this same subject came up and I remember some lsa trolls shrieking in outrage at the mere fact that Cleo wasn't a Nubian princess.

I was working at the Brooklyn Museum in Museum Education in1988 when this very groundbreaking exhibit was done. I constantly had classes coming in to visit the show and the teacher, in front of the whole class, would be like “We’ve come to learn all about the proud Black Nubian African Queen that ruled the Ancient World!” And I would have be like, “Well, No!” And go into the whole historical lineage and how she was Greek. There were always constantly conversations with school visits precipitated by the teachers about skin color and Ancient Egypt going on with classes, and we had to explain that skin color was completely meaningless in Ancient times, we even ended holding teacher workshops on it to try and make people understand and teach about it correctly.

All of that paled in comparison to the Orthodox Jewish school that booked a trip to the museum and asked if I could teach Ancient Egyptian Art from the perspective of the Jewish slaves and was upset when I explained that that it couldn’t be done, since their existence isn’t recorded in the objects in the museum.

R80, it’s pretty comic. How many people in the world are natural blonds? Two percent. And they are not from Northern Italy.

No one said she was blonde and blue eyed just that she was Greek. I know some sisters who are Greek and they are light skinned and have dark blonde to light brown hair. Green eyes.

r118 you've obviously never been to Northern Italy.

Ancient Greeks were more fair, modern Greeks have a lot of Turkish blood.

R121 Let’s hope that they got the large Turkish penises as well.

Americans think all Italians are dark and swarthy because most Italian-Americans are actually Sicilian (trash). Mainland Italians run the gamut from dark to fair. Lots of Northern Italians could pass for German.

R118, better to be silent then reveal ignorance.

This is interesting, especially establishing the long presence of Greeks in Ancient Egypt.

Perhaps Cleopatra wasn't much of a looker by today's standards, but how did she compare to other upper class women of her era?

[quote] how did she compare to other upper class women of her era?

I only saw her from a distance at a temple ceremony, so I didn't get a proper view.

When two men are fighting of one twat, it's usually not for her sparkling personality. Just saying.

She must have been reasonably attractive. I dont buy the "whole package" concept.

^ I kind of get the sexy is more then just good looks. They said the same about Wallis Simpson, although she was no beauty, she had a trick pelvis that no man could resist

Here is a look-a-like photo of one of Cleopatra's brothers'. GREAT beauty ran in their family.

I am a huge geek of Cleopatra and I have to say, I find this depiction inaccurate based off the other facial reconstructions in the last few years that all seem to resemble each other and the statue.

The Pompeii paintings are also close depictions of her. I believe the statue and the paintings are posthumous but all most likely come from the statue Julius Caesar had sculpted of her in Rome.

All the statues depict her with big eyes and brown hair and big round lips.

Being the loser I am, I tried to send the screenwriter of the Gal Gadot movie all of my notes I’ve collected over 2 years based on all the books I’ve read.

People seem tired of the idea of remaking Cleopatra but her true story hasn’t even been seen on screen.

I personally feel like it would make a great HBO miniseries because there’s so much story. In the Elizabeth Taylor movie, Caesarion dies at the end at like 10 years old. He was actually 17. And Mark Antony’s son lived with them as well and was murdered upon Augustus’ request.

Her death wasn’t just a snake in a basket. She tried to burn her mausoleum down with all of her treasure, then tried to stab herself, then got sick from an infection, then tried to stave herself, THEN poisoned herself. It was like a 2 week ordeal.

And that she most likely wanted Mark Antony dead so that she could make a deal with Augustus.

I feel like this Gal Gadot movie is going to be Elizabeth Taylor’s movie rebooted. Elizabeth Taylor didn’t even like it.

But it’s cool someone took the time to reconstruct all of the Ptolemies.

I think the Ptolemies should have a miniseries too lol.

Arsinoe II was the most interesting Ptolemy, in my opinion, after Cleopatra.

As well as the story of how Cleopatra’s father became ruler. The whole family basically killed each other until he and his brother were the only ones left. An uncle married his niece - he dies - the niece marries her cousin - he murders her - and it pisses the Egyptians off and they lynch him. Then the Romans came in and made Ptolemy Auletes, who had no heir to the throne, the ruler.

And then he gets overthrown by his daughter Berenice and goes to Rome with Cleopatra when she was 13 and comes back with a Roman army and has her beheaded. And the last year of his life, he makes Cleopatra his co-ruler.

It’s all fascinating and it’s taken several books to know everything.

R128 Caesar and Mark Antony didn’t fight over her. Caesar had been dead for like 3 years before Mark Antony met her in Tarsus.

Cleopatra was smart. For a long time, the Ptolemies had been basically in debt to Rome and had to maintain a good relationship to keep their kingdom. Cleopatra had babies with the most powerful men of Rome at that time. They gave her what she wanted and she did the same. She funded Mark Antony’s campaigns. He gave her territories the Ptolemies hadn’t ruled in 200 years.

The most interesting story is her rivalry with Herod the Great. Herod hated her because she wanted Judea and went behind his back and helped his mother in law, who’s son he had murdered because Mark Antony wanted to fuck him and was afraid he’d make him ruler and replace Herod.

R133 glad you shared. Interesting info. Crazy that sometimes movies even manage to miss the real life drama, in favor of romance or other mundane shit.

R134 Absolutely.

And she’s never been accurately depicted even appearance wise. She dressed and resembled more of a John William Godward painting than Nefertiti.

I hope in my lifetime, they are able to find more of the palace underwater in Alexandria.

I know she’s underwater, along with Alexander the Great, and the rest of the Ptolemies. Her mausoleum was by the Lighthouse of Alexandria along with Alexander the Great’s tomb. People say his tomb is in the center of Alexandria but the center of Alexandria back then was most likely in the palace because the Royal quarters was a little village in itself.

R38 Yes of course, we all know Jesus Christ was from an upper neighborhood in Michigan.

Looking at the ancient coins and similar likenesses this lady might be close.

Spanish actress Alba Flores

So she was basically Carnie Wilson or Liz in her fat 70s period. Were there snackpurses in ancient Egypt?

R137 Jesus Christ that’s Cleopatra. The eyes, the nose, the mouth are like exact matches to the statue

So I say

Alba Flores as Cleopatra

Daniel Craig as Julius Caesar

Chris Messina as Mark Antony

Thanks OP!

Does the guy who did that have any recreations of a Ptolemy (any Ptolemy) jerking off? That would be hot.

Thanks f139. I had given the subject some real thought and couldn't come up with any actress closer the image from actual history. She breaks most of Hollywood's rules of beauty but I think she is hot. Just as Cleopatra broke the Roman rules for beauty and still could snare Caesar and Anthony. And her Mediterranean coloring is a bonus.

Plus she is a good actress as well

It must be frustrating that even ancient Cleopatra has more manageable eyebrows than Lola, Queen of Better Than Nothing.

Cleo was descended from colonizers.

They shaved their heads because of that nasty little problem of head lice.

Which Hollywood movie depicts Cleopatra as blonde and blue eyes?

R142 The similarities are remarkable. The features are a perfect match.

No one ever said Cleopatra was ugly, someone said she wasn’t so beautiful that you’d notice her in a crowded room but it was her charm and words and intelligence that made her beautiful. She was was basically called average. But I’m sure her makeup and hairstyles and jewelry and personality made up for it.

People say she’s ugly because of that scary coin but based on what I read, it was a transition coin from her father. When her father died, coins and statues that were being made for him changed to being made for her.

There’s 3 coin looks - the scary one, the middle one, and the one where she resembles Marc Antony. The middle one, she looks normal and it was made during the middle of her reign.

I doubt really that some upper middle-class Long Island high school yearbook pic's senior student resembled Cleo..

Cleopatra couldn’t seduce Octavian(Augustus) like she did Antony and Caesar because Octavian was an insatiable bottom.

Everyone thinks she looks like Liz Taylor but she really looks more like Lady Gaga (pre cosmetic surgery).

R150 Lol.

But Caesar and Antony fucked men too. I’m sure they were tops.

R38 What about Santa Claus?

Cleopatra was Trans.. she is the first trans queen!

Cleo could have looked like Quasimodo and Caesar and Antony would still have wanted her because she ruled the richest kingdom on the planet.

Sofia Boutella would have been decent casting for the film.

R155 She kind of did though.

R154 When Big Brother frpm 1984 takes over the world and later on becomes Big Sister the records on Cleopatra will be "corrected" in this manner.

R154 R158 Already happening.

r154 is the troll who is obsessed with trans people

r158 is a big government conservative who supports Don't Say Gay bills and bans on "Critical Race Theory"......but he thinks he's an expert on Big Brother

Ok, she was no great beauty, but was she aspie?

They're all hotties. With all the inbreeding, it's surprising that they were not retarded.

Her being a beauty is probably all a myth.

She came from a long line of inbreeding.

She was probably better off than most because she was able to stand upright and walk.

Seri. My guess is she was very unattractive, due to her being a product of a very limited gene pool, and not as intelligent as history claims.