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What Cleopatra Possibly Looked Like

….and she looks like a cross between Mel C a.k.a. Sporty Spice of the Spice Girls and some other actress I can’t think of the name at this moment. So much for great beauty.

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by Anonymousreply 130July 21, 2021 8:46 PM

This

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by Anonymousreply 1July 19, 2021 6:31 PM

3,2,1...#cleosowhite

by Anonymousreply 2July 19, 2021 6:36 PM

*

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by Anonymousreply 3July 19, 2021 6:37 PM

Anyone who disagrees that Cleopatra looked exactly like this is a fascist.

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by Anonymousreply 4July 19, 2021 6:40 PM

You mofos.

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by Anonymousreply 5July 19, 2021 6:45 PM

lol he made all of them so pale

by Anonymousreply 6July 19, 2021 6:45 PM

Cleopatra was from a Macedonian Greek family that practiced incestuous marriages (including marrying siblings) to keep the bloodline pure.

by Anonymousreply 7July 19, 2021 6:45 PM

R7- It did keep the bloodline pure-

PURELY INCESTUOUS

by Anonymousreply 8July 19, 2021 6:51 PM

She was supposed to be more of a package than just beauty. Witty, educated, fluent in a couple of languages, crafty and ambitious. That coupled with the better than average looking woman depicted here shows why Caesar and Mark Antony were captivated.

by Anonymousreply 9July 19, 2021 6:52 PM

And, r9, she could both bring home the bacon *and* fry it up in a pan!

by Anonymousreply 10July 19, 2021 6:55 PM

These reconstructions are bullshit. They assume that the portraits (which were driven as much by convention as by the looks of the individual) represent what the person actually looked like; then they tweak the appearance to modern standards (as seen especially in the second Cleopatra portrait).

by Anonymousreply 11July 19, 2021 6:56 PM

Well, besides Caesar and Mark Antony, evidence suggests she also married two of her brothers and killed them afterwards.

R11 I believe it uses AI and 3-D projections with a type of software helping to render these reconstructions. Before, there used to be artist-sculptors who’d reconstruct the old fashioned way, sometimes used to try to identify Jane or John Doe victims.

by Anonymousreply 12July 19, 2021 7:00 PM

I'm sure she looked like Beyoncé!

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by Anonymousreply 13July 19, 2021 7:21 PM

She was not Black, period. Accept and move on.

by Anonymousreply 14July 19, 2021 7:39 PM

I love the perfect skin. Wasn't Cleopatra a teenager? With perfect skin? How about teeth pre-dentistry?

by Anonymousreply 15July 19, 2021 7:51 PM

What r9 said -- that was my take-away from my ancient history class where Cleo was discussed.

And RE the perfect teeth, r15: actually, wonky teeth are modern phenomenon. Ancient people ate a LOT less sugar (like, not even a tenth the amount we eat today) and chewed much tougher food, so they rarely had massive tooth problems. I'm always astonished when I see mummies or old (middle ages and before) skulls, and they all seem to have all their teeth, and perfectly aligned to boot.

by Anonymousreply 16July 19, 2021 8:26 PM

She was no Helen of Troy, that’s for sure.

by Anonymousreply 17July 19, 2021 8:30 PM

Cleopatra had her brothers killed before they got older and would kill her. It was a very prudent decision.

She had charisma in spades and was very intelligent as well.

by Anonymousreply 18July 19, 2021 8:32 PM

I'm the *only* Cleopatra Jones, r13.

by Anonymousreply 19July 19, 2021 8:39 PM

He has a whole series of historical reconstructions on his Youtube channel and they're quite interesting.

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by Anonymousreply 20July 19, 2021 8:40 PM

Ancient people’s teeth were worn down from the coarse ground wheat they used in their breads. But the rotting problems really started with sugar becoming common after 1500.

by Anonymousreply 21July 19, 2021 10:22 PM

She was pretty enough, and with her Egyptian ways seemed a bit mysterious as well. Plus she was RICH BITCH (to quote Dave Chappelle).

by Anonymousreply 22July 19, 2021 10:24 PM

Also, Caesar and Antony were renowned male sluts seducing any woman or boy in their vicinity. Anthony was a handsome guy by any standard and Caesar was considered good looking for his time even if prematurely balding. Caesar also was tall for his time-5’11 I think.

by Anonymousreply 23July 19, 2021 10:26 PM

Caesar was notorious for his bisexuality even during his lifetime. He was called "every woman's husband and every husband's wife." Fucking boys and servants was more or less accepted but he bottomed, which was considered scandalous for a man of his social position.

by Anonymousreply 24July 19, 2021 10:38 PM

Where did it say that Caesar bottomed, R24?

by Anonymousreply 25July 19, 2021 10:40 PM

He crossed the Rubicunt.

by Anonymousreply 26July 19, 2021 10:42 PM

@r25, Yeah, pics or it didn't happen

by Anonymousreply 27July 19, 2021 10:42 PM

"Archeologists have found that many Egyptian royals were overweight, owing at least in part to a diet heavy in beer and bread. However, incest may also have played a role. Cleopatra herself had a hooked nose, a round face, and fat hanging under her chin. Roman propaganda probably showed her as being the indomitable beauty that we think of today, but she wasn’t the Elizabeth Taylor who played her in the 1963 movie."

She was a fat white inbred Greek frau.

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by Anonymousreply 28July 19, 2021 10:43 PM

^ Thank-you, throughout history inbred royals were always hideous mutants why would Cleopatra be any different?

by Anonymousreply 29July 19, 2021 10:46 PM

If that reconstruction is realistic, then Cleo looked like a cross between Mel C and Cher

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by Anonymousreply 30July 19, 2021 10:47 PM

I just don't get why twitter wants to pretend a woman of greek decent that her family practice was incest would be black? Is twitter trying to act like Greeks are black now. Lmao.

by Anonymousreply 31July 19, 2021 10:50 PM

She was notorious for not being beautiful but having a great intellect.

And she was 100% greek

by Anonymousreply 32July 19, 2021 10:51 PM

Cloepatra was no beauty, coins show

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by Anonymousreply 33July 19, 2021 10:51 PM

Did Cleopatra look like Miss. Cleo?

by Anonymousreply 34July 19, 2021 10:51 PM

R24- Bottoming is also considered SCANDALOUS for a GAY man of YOUR social position.

by Anonymousreply 35July 19, 2021 10:53 PM

R9, plus, she was Queen of Egypt, and had an army and fabulous wealth. That was probably the key thing, really.

by Anonymousreply 36July 19, 2021 11:06 PM

30 Helens of Troy agree: Cleopatra was no great beauty.

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by Anonymousreply 37July 19, 2021 11:14 PM

Cleopatra, Nefertiti, Jesus Christ were white, white,white.

by Anonymousreply 38July 19, 2021 11:15 PM

Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony may have been charmed by her, but they were mainly were dazzled by the prospects of becoming the heads of Egypt, which was the breadbasket of the Empire. Whomever controlled Rome's access to Egyptian grain controlled Rome itself. It would mean a permanent grip on Imperial power, along with, as r38 points out, an additional army which would be personally loyal to the individual who married Cleopatra rather than to Rome itself.

For anyone aspiring to be Emperor or First Citizen of Rome, bagging Cleopatra was the key to potentially unlimited power.

by Anonymousreply 39July 19, 2021 11:20 PM

I meant r36^^^ not r38

by Anonymousreply 40July 19, 2021 11:34 PM

I’ve worked with 2 colleagues (physicians) who are Egyptian, one actually from Egypt and the other one who was born here to Egyptian parents who immigrated here. I thought one of them was Italian until she told me about trips to Egypt to see extended family members. The other one looked Middle Eastern/ Jewish. They showed me photos of their large families in Egypt, frankly most of them looked like a cross between Mediterranean and Middle Eastern That’s not to say most Egyptians don’t have darker skin or African features. But the impression I got from talking to my colleagues is that there’s a strain of colorism in Egypt, such that light-skinned people with Euro features are considered more beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 41July 19, 2021 11:39 PM

Queen though she was she still had to deal with being a woman in a man's world giving birth to Antony's twins and finding out Antony had married Octavian's sister on the same day

by Anonymousreply 42July 19, 2021 11:42 PM

Well, he couldn't marry Cleopatra because she was still married to her brother.

by Anonymousreply 43July 19, 2021 11:46 PM

[quote]I just don't get why twitter wants to pretend a woman of greek decent that her family practice was incest would be black? Is twitter trying to act like Greeks are black now. Lmao.

Americans are appallingly uneducated in world history.

by Anonymousreply 44July 20, 2021 12:11 AM

r41 Rami Malek is one of those.

by Anonymousreply 45July 20, 2021 12:12 AM

Was Cleopatra the one who was a famous cock sucker?

by Anonymousreply 46July 20, 2021 12:25 AM

Possibly, r46, but she got 3 children out of Caesar and Marc Anthony, so she was doing far more than sucking cock.

by Anonymousreply 47July 20, 2021 12:27 AM

"of greek decent"

Oh dear X2!

by Anonymousreply 48July 20, 2021 12:28 AM

Poor r48 has never sucked a cock in his miserable life

by Anonymousreply 49July 20, 2021 12:30 AM

Look at Princess Diana. Not beautiful but very attractive and charisma for days. Same as in Cleopatra VII's case.

by Anonymousreply 50July 20, 2021 12:31 AM

She asp-ired to more which was her downfall.

by Anonymousreply 51July 20, 2021 12:33 AM

What every Roman Emperor possibly looked like

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by Anonymousreply 52July 20, 2021 12:33 AM

Cleopatra had Greek blood flowing through her veins from 300 years of the Greeks ruling Egypt but taking on some of their traits and clothes. She was not a great beauty but had a dazzling personality, great charm, and a hypnotic voice - and from this she netted 2 of the biggest fish in Rome!

by Anonymousreply 53July 20, 2021 12:33 AM

She was 100% Greek.

And Greeks back then were visually closer to Northern Italian, including a high % of blonde hair and blue eyes.

Cleopatra wore a black wig, but no one even knows what her true hair color was.

by Anonymousreply 54July 20, 2021 12:46 AM

Surely R49 is also R31.

by Anonymousreply 55July 20, 2021 12:48 AM

"Mark Antony, pray tell, how are things in Rome?"

"Rotten."

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by Anonymousreply 56July 20, 2021 12:55 AM
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by Anonymousreply 57July 20, 2021 12:56 AM

[quote]Cleopatra wore a black wig, but no one even knows what her true hair color was.

Ancient Egyptians (both men and women) commonly shaved their heads and wore wigs 24/7. It was a big part of their culture.

by Anonymousreply 58July 20, 2021 12:58 AM

R33, I saw that same coin on a recent historical TV show of Cleopatra's life. If you google Cleopatra and coin, you can see others with her image. It's not pretty. Who would dare to cast a coin with those images on them, so they would be arrested and killed, without submitting the truth.

by Anonymousreply 59July 20, 2021 12:59 AM

The closest historically accurate depiction of what Cleopatra probably looked like is from HBO's Rome.

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by Anonymousreply 60July 20, 2021 1:02 AM

Another pic of Cleopatra from Rome.

BTW Rome was a great show and was cancelled too soon.

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by Anonymousreply 61July 20, 2021 1:04 AM

She was Macedonian Greek. So olive-skinned, short stature, black thick hair and brown eyes most likely. Most definitely not a tall and skinny pale-skinned, blue-eyed Northern or Western European like Hollywood portrays. They were African or mixed pharaohs in previous dynasties but she was not one of them. Hollywood should hire more Middle Eastern and North African actors when they make Ancient Egypt films but then again they are just entertainment not documentaries.

by Anonymousreply 62July 20, 2021 1:09 AM

Many Macedonians are fair and blue eyed.

by Anonymousreply 63July 20, 2021 1:10 AM

R57 = Paul

by Anonymousreply 64July 20, 2021 1:17 AM

Funny r57! We can't have a thread about anything Greek without the incomparable songstress Nana Mouskouri.

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by Anonymousreply 65July 20, 2021 1:19 AM

[quote] She was no Helen of Troy, that’s for sure.

And certainly no Helen of LAWSON, that’s for damn sure!

by Anonymousreply 66July 20, 2021 1:33 AM

Check out the BDF on Hadrian at R52.

by Anonymousreply 67July 20, 2021 1:33 AM

Vespasian looks exactly like LBJ...lol.

by Anonymousreply 68July 20, 2021 1:39 AM

I saw Nana's Live and Sleazy tour with my mom back in 1979. She did her 3rd encore in a robe with a towel wrapped around her head.

by Anonymousreply 69July 20, 2021 1:41 AM

I've heard of that Nana Mouskouri concert r69. She covered Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" and did a striptease.

by Anonymousreply 70July 20, 2021 1:42 AM

[quote]Cleopatra herself had a hooked nose, a round face, and fat hanging under her chin.

So, she looked a lot like Lens Dunham.

by Anonymousreply 71July 20, 2021 1:49 AM

Nana's encore was a cover of "Love to Love You Baby", which she dedicated to "all the alpha males in my life".

by Anonymousreply 72July 20, 2021 1:50 AM

This is going to become a Nana Mouskouri thread.

by Anonymousreply 73July 20, 2021 1:51 AM

Nana Mouskouri was why the Roman Empire fell.

by Anonymousreply 74July 20, 2021 1:52 AM

Cleopatra's father was very heavy, fat, and she inherited some of this from him. She basically dieted all her life. By the way, her father was at least bisexual and like the young palace lads to bottom for him. He loved fucking guys.

by Anonymousreply 75July 20, 2021 1:59 AM

The location of Cleopatra's tomb is unknown, but it could now be underwater. Parts of Alexandria from back then are now submerged.

by Anonymousreply 76July 20, 2021 2:04 AM

The same YTer who did Cleopatra also has some Roman emperors. Who knew that Marcus Aurelius looked like a darker, hairier version of Chris Watts, or that Lucius Verus was one ancient hottie, I bet he got all the slave boys fighting to service him.

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by Anonymousreply 77July 20, 2021 2:10 AM

Hello? Is Paul there? May I speak to Paul?

***click***

by Anonymousreply 78July 20, 2021 2:11 AM

r4, I'm not a fascist but you're definitely a Republican troll. Notice how they try to make every thread about trans people

by Anonymousreply 79July 20, 2021 2:14 AM

"And Greeks back then were visually closer to Northern Italian, including a high % of blonde hair and blue eyes."

Republicans are tripping over themselves to try to pretend she had blonde hair and blue eyes. LOL. Just like they do with Jesus

by Anonymousreply 80July 20, 2021 2:16 AM

"Americans are appallingly uneducated in world history."

Coming from someone who probably thinks Trump won the election.....

by Anonymousreply 81July 20, 2021 2:16 AM

Nope r81.

by Anonymousreply 82July 20, 2021 2:19 AM

r80 Ancient Greeks were more fair than modern Greeks.

by Anonymousreply 83July 20, 2021 2:20 AM

r80 many Northern Italians do indeed have blond hair and blue eyes.

by Anonymousreply 84July 20, 2021 2:20 AM

Many does not mean all or most. It's pretty clear from images of Cleopatra and the others rulers of Egypt that they weren't WASP-y looking, no matter what you want to believe

by Anonymousreply 85July 20, 2021 2:40 AM

Alexander the Great was Macedonian and he was known as "The blue eyed prince" because he had pale, ice-blue eyes. The only debate between historians is on whether his hair was blonde, strawberry blonde, or deep red hair.

Cleopatra was at a minimum 3/4ths Macedonian and 1/4th a combination of Persian and Hellenic. All of those races were medium height to short, were light skinned and many had light hair. They very often had the 'hook' noses such as the sort we see on Cleopatra's coinage, particularly the Persians.

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by Anonymousreply 86July 20, 2021 2:44 AM

She descended from 300 years of inbreeding sprung from this mans loins. And bare in mind this is statue propaganda of a man who was already being worshipped as a god by his death. He may have looked worse in reality.

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by Anonymousreply 87July 20, 2021 2:46 AM

I want Caracalla in me quite deeply. However, I suspect he might kill me after.

by Anonymousreply 88July 20, 2021 2:54 AM

[quote]Many does not mean all or most. It's pretty clear from images of Cleopatra and the others rulers of Egypt that they weren't WASP-y looking, no matter what you want to believe

Nobody said that, just that Greeks are white and ancient Greeks were more fair than they are now. That is fact.

by Anonymousreply 89July 20, 2021 3:12 AM

r85 have you ever been to Northern Italy?

by Anonymousreply 90July 20, 2021 3:12 AM

She had no neck and she preferred her left side.

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by Anonymousreply 91July 20, 2021 3:15 AM
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by Anonymousreply 92July 20, 2021 3:15 AM

BTW what was Elizabeth Taylor's ancestry? Did she have some Southern European in her? She certainly looked it.

by Anonymousreply 93July 20, 2021 3:29 AM

Ethnicity: English, with one eighth Swiss-German, some Scots-Irish/Northern Irish and French, more distant Dutch, Welsh, and Danish

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by Anonymousreply 94July 20, 2021 3:42 AM

Thanks r94. She was pretty exotic-looking, I wouldn't have guessed she was 100% Northern European.

by Anonymousreply 95July 20, 2021 3:44 AM

For me this has long held the most promising argument for her looks.

You cannot go by coins or the like because they were just reworked casts of the preceding male leaders. They were never meant to be true depictions.

The encaustic portrait found broken in 12 or 14 pieces discovered in 1818 in the ruins of an outbuilding on the grounds of the Emperor Hadrian's villas outside Rome.

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by Anonymousreply 96July 20, 2021 4:26 AM

^^^

The original paper from 1885 discussing the encaustic portrait.

It was put on display in capitol cities in Europe and in London. So there were witnesses to its image.

by Anonymousreply 97July 20, 2021 4:28 AM

Posting R97's link.

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by Anonymousreply 98July 20, 2021 4:29 AM

Thanks, R98 - dummy me put the link in the wrong box. LOL

Here's a rendering based on hearsay of those who viewed the encaustic image.

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by Anonymousreply 99July 20, 2021 4:35 AM

I thought Egyptians were darker than that.

by Anonymousreply 100July 20, 2021 4:56 AM

r100 she wasn't ethnically Egyptian.

by Anonymousreply 101July 20, 2021 4:57 AM

[quote]E the perfect teeth, [R15]: actually, wonky teeth are modern phenomenon. Ancient people ate a LOT less sugar (

Sugar has nothing to do with wonky crooked teeth. Just cavities and tooth loss. Some cultures produce people with naturally straighter teeth than others. If you look at the English and all their inbreeding, that seems to be in tandem with randomly oriented teeth. Italians on the other hand seem on average to have very naturally straight teeth.

by Anonymousreply 102July 20, 2021 5:31 AM

R93 I would have thought she had some Southern Europeans in her as well.

by Anonymousreply 103July 20, 2021 6:31 AM

[quote] I would have thought she had some Southern Europeans in her as well.

With all the men who fucked her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she did.

by Anonymousreply 104July 20, 2021 6:45 AM

Liz got a lot of good dick.

by Anonymousreply 105July 20, 2021 6:55 AM

Ptolemy looks like Rachel Maddow.

by Anonymousreply 106July 20, 2021 8:02 AM

These real life things are such bullshit. They always want to make people uglier than they might have been. Look at one of the statues they modeled the male after, he had beautiful lips and they morphed him into a dweeb. And statues like that from that era are especially from Roman times were the closest thing we had to accurate depictions of people. Not stylized like Egyptian. There must have been some attractive people of that time.

by Anonymousreply 107July 20, 2021 11:39 AM

Despite the "historical value" of this process, it gives me the creeps. Always has.

by Anonymousreply 108July 20, 2021 11:52 AM

[quote] Some cultures produce people with naturally straighter teeth than others.

True. Check out the teeth on the Himba people of northern Namibia. And they all look like they just had Zoom Whitening treatments!

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by Anonymousreply 109July 20, 2021 12:04 PM

She looked like Kim Cattrall...

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by Anonymousreply 110July 20, 2021 4:15 PM

Is the movie with Liz as Cleopatra any good? Worth watching for costumes alone? Apparently the movie was the most expensive to be made at that time and the expenses almost bankrupted the studio.

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by Anonymousreply 111July 20, 2021 6:56 PM

r111, it's worth seeing for its pop culture status -- it's the movie where Taylor and Burton met, their affair (they were both married to others at the time) created international headlines, as did the spiraling budget. The sets and costumes are spectacular, and the film features a solid cast -- Rex Harrison is good as Julius Caesar -- but it's also a slow slog at times.

by Anonymousreply 112July 20, 2021 7:17 PM

R80, it's not republican. It's actually true. The Romans coveted Greek slaves because of their fair coloring.

by Anonymousreply 113July 20, 2021 7:17 PM

It’s nice that there was a time that people didn’t run off and have plastic surgery to correct every flaw, it’s sad you have to go back to ancient times to find it.

by Anonymousreply 114July 20, 2021 8:25 PM

^ You could probably go back a 100 years and find little in the way of cosmetic surgery, unless you think the bustle is the precursor to Kardashian butt

by Anonymousreply 115July 20, 2021 8:35 PM

A few years ago this same subject came up and I remember some lsa trolls shrieking in outrage at the mere fact that Cleo wasn't a Nubian princess.

by Anonymousreply 116July 20, 2021 8:46 PM

I was working at the Brooklyn Museum in Museum Education in1988 when this very groundbreaking exhibit was done. I constantly had classes coming in to visit the show and the teacher, in front of the whole class, would be like “We’ve come to learn all about the proud Black Nubian African Queen that ruled the Ancient World!” And I would have be like, “Well, No!” And go into the whole historical lineage and how she was Greek. There were always constantly conversations with school visits precipitated by the teachers about skin color and Ancient Egypt going on with classes, and we had to explain that skin color was completely meaningless in Ancient times, we even ended holding teacher workshops on it to try and make people understand and teach about it correctly.

All of that paled in comparison to the Orthodox Jewish school that booked a trip to the museum and asked if I could teach Ancient Egyptian Art from the perspective of the Jewish slaves and was upset when I explained that that it couldn’t be done, since their existence isn’t recorded in the objects in the museum.

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by Anonymousreply 117July 20, 2021 9:01 PM

R80, it’s pretty comic. How many people in the world are natural blonds? Two percent. And they are not from Northern Italy.

by Anonymousreply 118July 20, 2021 9:07 PM

No one said she was blonde and blue eyed just that she was Greek. I know some sisters who are Greek and they are light skinned and have dark blonde to light brown hair. Green eyes.

by Anonymousreply 119July 20, 2021 9:12 PM

r118 you've obviously never been to Northern Italy.

by Anonymousreply 120July 20, 2021 9:14 PM

Ancient Greeks were more fair, modern Greeks have a lot of Turkish blood.

by Anonymousreply 121July 20, 2021 9:15 PM

R121 Let’s hope that they got the large Turkish penises as well.

by Anonymousreply 122July 20, 2021 9:17 PM

Americans think all Italians are dark and swarthy because most Italian-Americans are actually Sicilian (trash). Mainland Italians run the gamut from dark to fair. Lots of Northern Italians could pass for German.

by Anonymousreply 123July 20, 2021 9:21 PM

R118, better to be silent then reveal ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 124July 20, 2021 9:30 PM

This is interesting, especially establishing the long presence of Greeks in Ancient Egypt.

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by Anonymousreply 125July 20, 2021 9:43 PM

Perhaps Cleopatra wasn't much of a looker by today's standards, but how did she compare to other upper class women of her era?

by Anonymousreply 126July 21, 2021 4:14 AM

[quote] how did she compare to other upper class women of her era?

I only saw her from a distance at a temple ceremony, so I didn't get a proper view.

by Anonymousreply 127July 21, 2021 4:17 AM

When two men are fighting of one twat, it's usually not for her sparkling personality. Just saying.

She must have been reasonably attractive. I dont buy the "whole package" concept.

by Anonymousreply 128July 21, 2021 4:45 AM

^ I kind of get the sexy is more then just good looks. They said the same about Wallis Simpson, although she was no beauty, she had a trick pelvis that no man could resist

by Anonymousreply 129July 21, 2021 7:59 PM

Here is a look-a-like photo of one of Cleopatra's brothers'. GREAT beauty ran in their family.

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by Anonymousreply 130July 21, 2021 8:46 PM
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