The Euros 2020 (actually 2021) Final: England vs Italy

Oh boy oh boy. I feel a little bit sick. It's going to be sad and awful if England loses. I don't know how it is for Italy but it just seems extra, extra important; so much build up and hope.

I feel the same, r1, extremely nervous.

But they've made it this far, which makes it not impossible that this year might actually finally be The Year.

Some kind of sporting event?

The most important sporting event in the last 55 years, r3

Well then, do keep us apprised.

r1 I've gone into every game after Scotland expecting us to lose as its England and they've spent decades disappointing me. Which has made every win better and more surprising. Since Pessimism (and alcohol) has got me this far I might as well carry on. Its the hangover I'll have tomorrow that's worrying me.

BBC going through all the failures of the past 5 decades. Painful.

[quote][R1] I've gone into every game after Scotland expecting us to lose as its England and they've spent decades disappointing me. Which has made every win better and more surprising. Since Pessimism (and alcohol) has got me this far I might as well carry on. Its the hangover I'll have tomorrow that's worrying me.

Tournament stress rating

Croatia: 8

Scotland: 5

Czech Republic: 4

Germany: 10

Ukraine: 5

Denmark: 9

Italy: 7 (so far)

I'll be disappointed if England lose but I'll still feel incredibly proud. If England do lose I just hope it's not on penalties.

But either way, it's come home.

Red Arrows flypast at 7:48 pm local time.

This gives you some idea of just how long football has been played in England:

Looking forward to this game.... second most important football game of the weekend.

It's coming home... and will likely be arrested.

.....

I'm loving the steward in the video at R12 tripping the crowd members up. A centre half in the making.

IT'S COMING HOME

England fans booing Italian national anthem... classy as always.

Such a delicate little anthem, isn't it?

The Italian fans are so good looking.

Booing during another team's national anthem is a disgrace.

Kate made quite the transition from pink at Wimbledon this afternoon to Wembley tonight.

God Save the Queen.

I am nervous.

I'm guessing 2-1 to Italy.

Why have the royals wheeled out George and not Charlotte?

Kneelers seem to be ignored, which is a relief.

Because George plays football and Charlotte plays field hockey, natch

[quote] God Save the Queen. I am nervous.

No need to be nervous. She's, what, 95? She's been saved.

[quote] Why have the royals wheeled out George and not Charlotte?

Because he'll be king.

England score.

GOOOOOAAAAALLLLL

I can't believe it, what a stunning start from rumoured gaymo Luke Shaw too.

Shout out to the car in Pride colours, so good to see in such a macho sport like football now.

Luke Shaw has very bouncy tits

Useless iplayer on 30 second delay but my neighbors have a tv licence so their screams keep me apprised of the goals

For R30:

Cheap bastard

I'm no expert on this matter, but I really think we should try to kick the ball into their net thing again.

For anyone who might be feeling horny tonight

An Italian on the floor who is genuinely injured? This truly is a remarkable tournament.

Mr Mancini’s impeccable hairstyle is not enjoying the weather.

In-ger-land!

English fans should be ashamed at how much they’re booing when the Italians have possession of the ball.

The scenes from earlier are disgraceful. And they wonder why everyone else is supporting Italy. No sportsmanship whatsoever.

[quote]English fans should be ashamed at how much they’re booing when the Italians have possession of the ball. The scenes from earlier are disgraceful. And they wonder why everyone else is supporting Italy. No sportsmanship whatsoever.

Go suck on a manky lemon Cariad.

R39 You have to remember that the English are the most aggressive nation on the planet.

You didn't have an empire by being nice to people.

I hope England wins.

It's being held in ENGLAND, r39. It's called the "home team advantage" and it is completely typical in every country, all over the world.

And if you think for a nanosecond that were it held in Italy the Italians would not be doing the same - if not worse - I have several bridges to sell you in Brooklyn.

R40 Cer i grafu, cont

[quote][R39] You have to remember that the English are the most aggressive nation on the planet. You didn't have an empire by being nice to people.

LOL.

So much bitterness here tonight.

[quote]And if you think for a nanosecond that were it held in Italy the Italians would not be doing the same - if not worse - I have several bridges to sell you in Brooklyn.

If the final was being held in Italy then there'd be monkey chants directed at Sterling, Phillips, Tripper and Walker every time they had possession.

R43 no shit Sherlock, I’m aware that the final is being held in ENGLAND.

The way the fans are behaving is disgraceful, and you’re all a fucking embarrassment. Football really does bring out the dickhead in all of you cunts.

Exactly, r45.

Rydyn ni'n dal i garu'ch cymydog

R39, fans booing when the opposing side has possession is a football staple, it happens even in club games.

Oh look, a thick and bitter Welshman, blaming England for _________.

How RARE.

[quote][R43] no shit Sherlock, I’m aware that the final is being held in ENGLAND. The way the fans are behaving is disgraceful, and you’re all a fucking embarrassment. Football really does bring out the dickhead in all of you cunts.

Have you ever been in Cardiff on a Saturday night after a Six Nations match?

Well that wasn't very nice. Mind you, they drive like that too.

The Italians tonight

Wow. Thanks, Royal Albert Museum and R10!

England has been playing football only a few hundred years less than it (has) spent subjugating the Scots, Welsh and Irish.

That's a very, very long time, isn't it?

So much pride. One little sport left to pour it all into.

Seems an awful shame they don't get to have a ball each. If they did, they wouldn't keep falling over each other.

[quote]England has been playing football only a few hundred years less than it (has) spent subjugating the Scots, Welsh and Irish.

Dear Lord, what a sad little life Jane.

I'm still feeling so nervous. Happy to be up 1-0 at half time. It would be nice to get another goal or two...

I keep telling myself "All it takes is one more, All it takes is ONE more" r57

C'mmon England!

Foreskinpalooza!

[quote]I'm still feeling so nervous. Happy to be up 1-0 at half time. It would be nice to get another goal or two...

I still have flashbacks to England Portugal quarter final in 2004. Michael Owen scored in the 3rd minute, Portugal equalised in the 83rd minute. A goal each in extra time and England lost on penalties.

But that doesn't matter because guess what? IT'S COMING HOME!

Italy were close to a goal at the end of the first. I feel a goal coming for them soon. First final where I'm genuinely ok with either of them winning.

So long as we avoid bloody penalties!

[quote]I still have flashbacks to England Portugal quarter final in 2004. Michael Owen scored in the 3rd minute, Portugal equalised in the 83rd minute. A goal each in extra time and England lost on penalties.

I mean to say I had that flashback during the Ukraine match. And look how that ended!

England's white kit allows for more VPL.

We're now going to find out which are the more powerful: The Catholics' prayers or the Protestants' prayers.

Good no penalty call

Some sexy Italian players

laughing at the Italian fan in a pizza costume.

Raheem's rolling was not required.

But as the Cranberries once said, everyone else is doing it so why can't we?

R69 Lol

the refs have done a good job this entire tournament

the problem with rolling is that if you don't do it, you typically don't get rewarded..

R71, Italians are so funny about food, they HATE it if you do something they consider to be wrong. At least we can blame the Canadians for inventing pineapple on pizza (for real).

Jordan Pickford always looks like he's desperate for the toilet and is worried that a little bit has leaked out.

Italy playing handball and the refs say nothing.

FUCK IT

Nooooo!

yassssssss

I can't bear this I've started pacing the room

Jordan just wet himself

Ciao bambini!

R80 Don't.

We've got extra time and penalties to come!

London is going to be unbearable if England loses this

Italy is bossing this match right now

You're right r83, you're right.

Pickford always looks like he's crapping his pants.

Hendo needed now

Here he comes!

[quote]Italy is bossing this match right now

Evvai, azzurri!

Rice off?

WTF!

England is just hanging on at the moment

I hope England wins - it needs something to cheer it up. Italy already has great food, good weather, beaches, nice clothes. They'll be fine if they lose.

The ref is hot

So is it in the rules that we now have to stay in our half so the other team get a turn?

We need Hendo's leadership.

Maguire & Walker taking them up the field.

Nice VPL from Chiesa as he was rolling around on the floor. Grazie!

The Italian rolling around on the floor is hilarious.

He went from clutching his face to clutching his leg.

I love watching the Italian players talking to each other with the stereotypical hand gestures

When is Kate Moss or the Church of Scientology coming on?

Im-ah sooooo-ah injured-ahhhh!!!!!!!

The injured Italian can walk again! It's a miracle!

England survived the initial post-goal Italian attack. Extra time?

Ouch. Chiesa was the best player on the pitch.

Looking that way

[quote]The injured Italian can walk again! It's a miracle!

A short lived miracle but a miracle nonetheless.

This going to penalties

Italy just wants it more.

IS there a protestor? I saw stewards running on the pitch.

R98 - LOL - that was hilarious - how so many of them scrunched their shoulders and pinched their hands together. I expected one of them to do a chef's kiss.

a streaker, I think

Per favore, the dive diva of the night is Sterling.

It doesn't feel like England are playing in front of a home crowd.

They need Delia Smith to get them motivated.

They need to change the rules in football/soccer. These low-scoring or no scoring matches are not enjoyable.

It's like one slow edging session and half the time you don't come or NOBODY comes at all.

Add some other ways to score points. Like 5 points for a goal, 3 points if you hit the goal bar, 2 points if you headbutt it into some other goal.

R113 = Florentino Pérez

That bald thuggish Italian trying to pull the shirt of the back of the teenage black English player Saka has left me feeling very angry.

The Italians are getting increasingly dirty.

Italy has been the best team outside of the first 10 minutes of the match. But anything can happen in extra time.

R115 It was a tactical foul that any veteran player would have made in the circumstances 🙄

I was mostly pulling for England today... but they've stunk up the game in the second half. Italian players looking so much more skilled. It'd be an injustice if Italy didn't win this thing.

Italy have had 66% of possession and committed 69% of the fouls.

Here we go!

C'mmon Jack!

R119 sounds like England needs to get more physical and attacking

[quote] 69% of the fouls.

Nice.

chialini!

Where's Grealish?

Haha! Here he comes!

England is doing a bit better in extra time than they did in the second half of regular time

Made me chuckle

Prince George.

Them legs is fresh!

Carlos Del Cerro Grande, the official holding the clock, is hot.

R130 I concur

Italy is playing different now. not as much possession or short passes, more long passes and crosses.

15 more minutes! 😬

Some shit's going to go down in England tonight - no matter who wins. You can take that to the bank.

I like Taylor Twellman as commentator

[quote] I like Taylor Twellman as commentator

Yum.

Is he commentating in the States?

R137 Ian Darke and him are in the states

England is feeling a late winner

Our favorite himbo got his balls crushed

Grealish in a bit of pain there

Grealish lives another day!

I won't hear how American football is slow compared to soccer. These guys rolling around the ground like Pentecostals and shrieking like demon possessed maniacs really drags the action.

They're not wearing all that padding though.

they don't need the padding since they miraculously recover after the emoting gives them a penalty kick

Penalties here we come

St Rashford coming on.

Fucking hell. Let's just get this thing over with.

This is some sort of soccer match no? What a bunch of suburban moms, to care so much about a children’s game :-/

Penalties!

Italy has totally changed after Chiesa left

Seriously, I just turned this on. Which color is England wearing?

R143 - it really is a head-scratcher how the rest of the world is obsessed with this low-scoring game with all of these dramatics over injuries.

Nothing comes close to its popularity (outside of the US/Canada). There are some other games - cricket, rugby, ice hockey - but for a lot of countries, this is it.

One sport - that's all. The rest of the sports have such less interest.

We Americans will never really understand it fully - although we've been trying the past 20 years.

White

For those complaining about Italy's dramatics/dives. Grealish acted like he needed knee surgery with that nonsense. Somehow he is able to play on.

The reason football never took off in the States was because the US networks refused to air such long blocks of time without commercial breaks.

[quote] We Americans will never really understand it fully - although we've been trying the past 20 years.

You have your answer right there.

R153 If your a poor boy, with his mates, in the back streets of Sao Paulo, or Bangkok, or Johannesburg, then all you need is a football.

That's it's popularity.

No results in 120 mins.

Rose, Rose @ R152

[quote] [R143] - it really is a head-scratcher how the rest of the world is obsessed with this low-scoring game with all of these dramatics over injuries.

Americans have reputations for short attention spans. Two 45 minute halves of a 90 minute match just won’t cut it for American viewers and advertisers.

Kate naturally changed her outfit but Tammy didn’t.

England just looked slow, tired, sluggish. Italy looked quick, smart, skilled. It'd be a shame for Italy not to win this now.

I find Henderson, his face and sporty thinner body delicious.

Whos the backup Italian keeper? He's hot!

Looked like William was mansplaining about the football to Kate.

R161 This is a comment from 20 years ago. America loves soccer now, understands it. This game was a slog, but not boring... for anyone.

So it comes down to this.

Penalty shootout. England's favourite!

Some of us Yanks are too smart to buy NFL, with its 75% commercials and talking and standing around. I'm watching it on ESPN+

Any relation to Mary?

Those few steps to the place are longest those guys have ever walked.

R155 - the soccer dramatics are constant. I can't think of any other sport where men act like this with an injury.

R157 - I understand that there is a low barrier of entry to PLAY football. But that doesn't explain its dominance over all other sports.

R167 - nah, it was still boring. And to be decided by a penalty shootout is ridiculous. This is what you get with low scoring sports - some ridiculous contest at the end that doesn't have much to do with the actual game.

Save!

Maguire was really nervous and then the relief!

Fantastic game, whoever wins.

What!!

choke... overthinking it.... England.....

Rash misses!

See what happens when you get cute? He may have cost them the entire championship.

Asshole.

The pressure was too much. Oh no.

Jordino. Failure. So close. But he is so handsome.

ITALY!!

Sad for England. But truly, Italy deserved the win.

Yay! England and Penalties, together again. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Italy!!!!

Out on penalties again!

Congratulations Italy.

Well done. Hard luck England.

Italy deserved it but can't help but feel crushed for England fans.

Jorginho, I love his face, I want kiss him touch him do every possible dirty things.

BTW, best player for England.

Oh dear, there goes St. Gareth Southgate's seat in the Lords

Il calcio ste tornendo e case!!

yeah! Congrats Italy!!

There's no shame in going out on penalties.

Poor English players, poor Jack, Henderson, little George, all those fans there. But one day...

R190 He looked sooooooooo sloooowwwww by the end of the game.

Most of England best players didn't even take a penalty kick, instead it was 3 players off the bench just for the penalties. Where was Sterling or Shaw or Himbo?

Italy has won 1968. Great soccer country like England but so few victories.

R197 I agree, too much pressure in front of home audience. Mistake.

Too much pressure on a 19 year old.

I grew up in America with football. I now find it unwatchable. All the jingoistic salutes to "heroes" and games that require 4 hours to finish. I now much prefer soccer.

Can you imagine the celebrations in Italy at the moment? Italy is full of soccer fanatics. Football is their life.

Italian fans will be celebrating that the 3 blacks English players who took penalties didn’t score.

Ha! Suck it baldy and anorexic.

Glad George will know disappointment early on.

R201 I was just about to travel to LA before covid closed everything and I had a ticket to see your football. I don’t understand anything about it, but I wanted to see it. When it is safe to travel, then. I would also like to see Real Madrid vs. FC Barca and Juventus with Ronaldo in Italy. And my English fave Liverpool.

R161 There are now 60 million Americans of Hispanic-Latin orgin and many of them love fútbol.

Italy was a team. England were a bunch of individuals.

Thoughts to Dawn at this difficult time.

The Mexican National team regularly sell out football stadiums here in the US.

Big headline

Gutted. My heart is so broken.

Usually I’m club over country, and have been since I was a kid in the 1990s. But this England squad really felt special and different, endeared themselves—enough that I thought our luck would finally change and the wheel would turn.

The guy who gave medals is a hot daddy!

England's coach is a hot daddy too...

Almost all the England players ripped their silver medals off as soon as they went on. (Henderson didn’t). And that’s why they didn’t deserve a gold one.

England had the squad depth, and Southgate just so badly misused it.

It’s like he wanted us all to share the pain he’s carried for 25 years, so he had to recreate his old trauma. Absolute shitshow.

they rigged this for England but England couldn't deliver...useless cunts!

That penalty by Rashford was fucking weak!!!

Who wants to walk around advertising loser status?

Did they, R214?

Wow, what a bunch of assholes.

I'm loving the scenes on the pitch right now. Italians really show their love, the players are lying on top of each other, hugging etc.

Probably circle jerk later

R214 I don’t blame the England players for feeling bitter, especially the XI. The starters played their hearts & guts out tonight, only to be horribly let down by poor last-minute panic decisions from a manager they trusted, and by critical mistakes from their teammates who just didn’t have their heads present in the game.

Rice’s tears, Mason’s snarl, and the shellshock on Pickford & Stonesy’s faces said it all.

😭😭😭

🤭

Evviva! Gli azzurri hanno vinto!

England didn't deserve to be there, that was not a penalty the last game. It should have been Denmark.

This was the correct result.

That must hurt for England. They never won this cup before and they came this close while hosting at their home country.

Italy were prepare to do anything to win.

5 yellow cards

Stomping on Grealish.

Nearly ripping Sara’s head off.

England surrendered at half time.

R223 we went over that as nauseum in the semis thread, so let’s not do that argument again. tl;dr it was a rectification for a few earlier pens not awarded to England because the ref missed them. End of.

R220 Are you kidding? Talk about bad sportsmanship

R225 given how ripped Jack’s enormous thighs are, getting cleated straight in the slut-gutters must have hurt something chronic.

Thugs

R227 I didn’t say Italy didn’t deserve the win, did I? They made mugs out of us in the second half, and they won those pens fair and square because we sent the wrong players up. No-one is disputing that.

That doesn’t change how heart-shattering this is for England, or how hard they worked to get this far. They’re allowed to be disappointed and feel hard done by.

Given how much the 'modern' English person seems to hate their country, I'm sure there will be as much celebration in London tonight as there is in Rome.

R225 the constant filthy grabs on Sterling wore him him down and got in his head, I think. You could see him getting more and more wound up and distracted all game.

England had home field advantage...they had everything going for them...too bad, so sad!

I wonder if the covid numbers will sky rocket in UK. I hope they are not gonna lock down again! I want to visit during xmas!

*snickers nastily*

R232, he should be used to that, it happens a lot in PL. the shirt pulling shit.

Lineker & Lampsy sound so dejected doing punditry. You can hear the gloom in their voices and see how their postures have fallen.

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😛 at R221.

😬😬

FORZA ITALIAAAA🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹

I love super frank!

R214 That was a really crappy move.

Aw, Frank waxing philosophical on what makes a great coach.

Yeah, after Brexit I've noticed I don't really give a fuck about Brits anymore. Even though three of my nieces are living there and one is about to marry a Brit guy. I was rooting for Italy throughout the game. Out of all European countries the UK is probably mentally closest to me besides my fellow Nordic countries but I'm just over all the fucking drama happening there.

I want to bang Donnarumma so bad right now.

Poor little George looked devastated. So did Kate - she looked like she was going to cry. William was stoic.

R241, most of the losers do that. I've seen it in PL, CL, other leagues as well.

💀

Southgate is about to get eviscerated by the press for a second time.

Oh, well, better him than some poor trembling teenager who wasn’t even warmed up didn’t want to have to take a pen in the first place.

R221 Is Kate hungry?

Aw.

well, he thought fresh legs etc...

Cold, stiff legs, you mean.

Isn’t she always, R248?

R242 wouldn’t surprise me if Lampsy comes in as U17/U21 England coach sooner rather than later. He got that look and feel about him, and no matter how often he fucks up the British public generally forgive him a lot.

IMO Southgate will only last as long as this current squad, and given this performance that will probably mean less than ten years, and after that they’ll need a younger veteran player who has the public trust (regardless of patchy track record...).

Personally, I’d prefer someone like Terry or Gerrard or Rooney in the job, but I don’t think any of them would take it given their hyperfocus on becoming successful Prem managers.

R235 at one point Raz basically got bodyslammed so hard the turf got a dent in it. This isn’t professional wrestling, fucksake.

R216 if it really were rigged, England wouldn’t have lost. No-one’s taking that deal.

They rigged it as far as they could, everything was there for the taking...but they couldn't do it. nobody to blame but themselves.

R197 yes! I was begging for Shaw and then Grealish to take a kick after the Harrys. From their facial expressions, they both looked hungry and focused and sure. I’m confident they could have delivered. Hendo’s older head and experience would have helped take pressure off, too.

Kudos to the double Harrys for their scores, though. Maguire especially buried his kick, against all expectation—on paper it’s hard to believe he made it, where Rashford & Sancho didn’t.

England has never beaten Italy...let that sink in.

England is so competitive about EVERYTHING. All they've done is boast that they were going to win, "It's coming home". That is the stupidest fucking phrase. Then when they lost, people were CRYING

England is a bunch of bad losers. They're like trump

The players that "had the penalties (or whatever they call it) will get so much racial hatred directed at them. I expect their homes to get trashed and the players will have to hide out for a few weeks

Yes, Sterling and Rashford has been racially abused in the past on social media. The main reason is the betting (my opinion).

This hurts like 2018 didn’t. I’m so numb, the the wound is too fresh.

The shots of Saka crying his eyes out have proper done me. Poor lad has only just finished school, and was put up against men pushing 40 with teenaged kids of their own. The pressure on him tonight was more than any of us will likely ever experience. I will be going off on anyone I hear in my vicinity that gives him abuse, racial or otherwise.

R261, I know, poor kid. He will learn from this experience.

R261 The manager should never have put him in that position

I know. Southgate put Saka up at the wrong time for his strong suits, and now Saka wrongly feels he failed, when it was in fact Southgate's management and choices that failed.

Saka might not yet see that, but the rest of the country does.

It was his first ever professional penalty attempt. insane management

R265 competitive, not professional

Thankfully it was Europeans who won the Euro cup and not a bunch of Africans.

Letting kids take the last pens should be illegal. Letting last-minute subs take them shouldn’t be allowed, either. It’s so hard getting your head around how someone like Southgate allowed this to happen.

Kane should have taken the last penalty. He’s the Captain (somehow...), so arguably it was his responsibility. He’s the dedicated penalty taker, too. It’s such a stitch-up, and I’m so unbelievably disappointed for the team.

R267 fuck off

I seen cases where players were tired and missed the pens. it's a crap shoot.

R269 Truth Hurts? It was the multi-culti worship that killed all of England’s chances tonight.

Thankfully engerlund got plenty of kneeling practice in, ‘cause it’s time to fucking kneel before you spaghetti overlords!

Errr, no, r271.

Who to choose for the pens is a manager decision, based on the manager's wisdom regarding player strengths.

Southgate lost this match tonight. Not the Penalty kickers.

Is Southgate from North?

🇮🇹 🇮🇹 🇮🇹

R271 and all those French players from African backgrounds really cost France the World Cup. This has nothing to do with your weird issues about culture. It has to do with a badly mismanaged match.

Ironic, R274:

[quote] Keith Woods is Chief Diversity Officer at NPR. He leads and supports NPR's efforts to bring greater diversity to its audience, content and staffing while creating a workplace where a diverse staff can grow and thrive.

Rashford looked like he’d never taken a penalty before.

Med bvlls reign supreme.

What a truly fucking stupid sport.

2 boring hours and it ends in 1-1 tie

So fucking stupid.

probably a good thing the North London teams don’t make the Champion’s League anymore, cuz the next time Chiellini walks down those streets…

He kicks the shit out of some posho Arsenal cunts?

"MRS GREALISH 69" IN THE ZEBRA UNITED KIT U OK HUN??

sending u (((((vibes)))))

One of North London's specialties is being chockabloc with residents who hate Britain, and England in particular, r280.

The entire Italy team would not only be safe on the streets there but would likely be received with a ticker tape parade.

'It's my fault and it TOTALLY rests on me': Gareth Southgate takes responsibility for choosing England penalty-takers after heartbreaking Euro 2020 final loss to Italy, with Bukayo Saka, Jadon Sancho and Marcus Rashford all missing

check out this naked guy, shameless

R285 Damn, was it cold in England today?

He's right, r284, and he should quit - tonight.

Bonucci took down an armed robber with a punch, I don't think he's worried about walking the streets of London.

If you're England, in your first final in 55 years and playing at home in Wembley, do you want to take your chances with penalty kicks? With that pressure? How do hold your nerve against Italy--usually renown for being tough pragmatic footballers? Look at Cheallini against Spain, did he look bothered? Maybe England should have done a little more after the first 2 minutes.

R286 no, it was muggy and warm out, but overcast and shiteing it down as well, obviously. Pathetic fallacy, I suppose.

Right then, bright side lads—somehow our little island team conceded just two goals in the entire tournament, plus our keeper actually saved a penalty in a final. That is a personal best in over a half-century.

Rashford's penalty was poor.

Let's hope Italy will find a striker for the World Cup. Immobile and Bellotti are so far below standard. Italy won a major tournament in spite of them. Imagine if they had a great striker.

Considering that Luke Shaw almost threw in the towel five years ago, this is quite a comeback for him. Clubs will suddenly be very interested to talk to him.

[quote] check out this naked guy, shameless

We did earlier in the thread.

Southgate has got nothing to resign about.

If you'd said to any England supporter that we'd get to the final this year, then they probably wouldn't have believed you.

Southgate has got us further than most managers in years.

Hilarious how during the punditry before kickoff, when the camera panned over the VIP boxes and one of the English pundits said “oh, there’s Becks, with his new best mate Tom Cruise”, Gary Neville immediately and insistently jumped in to cut him off and quickly remind the world that *he* was and is and always will be David Beckham’s best mate, ACTUALLY.

There was and always will be more than a little ugliness from the English fans so I'm very, very glad the team lost.

R297 statistics tells us that domestic abuse goes up by about 12-15% when England bottle big games. It shouldn’t happen, but it does and no-one’s figured out how to stop it yet (because you know, men can’t resist being shit and throwing their weight around at the slightest flimsy provocation).

But yeah, keep dreaming misogynist dreams..

well tbf we never actually specified what year it was coming home

France NT lost the euro 2016 finals at home and won the world cup two years later. so.

R279 when the whistle blows and its equalised neither team should have a chance to win by going into extra time or pens.

instead both should all stop playing then strip off completely and have an orgy on the pitch. its the pagan way, and the only natural end to a frustrating draw. gotta burn off that adrenaline and testosterone in a safe healthy and non-violent way!

pretty sure at least jack would have preferred a Italian train run on him than having to watch his little brothers choke and his dreams die in front of millions. actually even without the high stakes i think

R299 it’s going to be in 2022 lol

Given English racism, I'm sure there will be hooligan attacks on blacks for weeks. Fans trying to break into the stadium without tickets! Ha, ha. My partner remarked that the English fans, many of them, looked like the guys on Jan. 6. And taking off their medals--what an insult to the teams they beat to get to the finals. Thug move.

God knows why Sterling and Shaw didn't take penalties.

'One of North London's specialties is being chockabloc with residents who hate Britain, and England in particular, [R280].'

What the fuck are you talking about, Welp Troll? And Arsenal and Spurs are still in the premiership league.

About ten months ago I moved reluctantly to Wales from England (long story), with mixed results. It’s ok and even quite nice in some respects, but also negative in others. While I count my blessings that I live in a safe and pleasant Welsh town, I miss England more than I thought I would.

However, I have to say a big plus of being out of England is no longer having to worry about hooliganism. Where I live now, no-one is remotely arsed about international or domestic football. Today, most of my neighbours and fellow locals (mixed English & Welsh, with a few Europeans) watched the tennis then had an early night. I live over the road from a pub that did not show the finals on their screens, and where there has been little to no drunken shithousing. It’s peaceful, and I have the luxury of just wallowing quietly in my lush rainy little bubble without threat or fear of violence and vandalism anywhere near me. For that, I feel very lucky.

My thoughts are with anyone from inner-city England today. Apparently there have already been a dozen reported stabbings. It’s hard to hear news like that.

Well of course there are no English football fans or pubs in Wales, r305. Wales hate England more than Meghan Markle does.

Also, the "stabbings" to which you refer were an invention of the internet. The police have confirmed that there have been no football related stabbings as of yet.

The last people to be arrested for stabbing in the UK were arrested late yesterday, and this is who they stabbed and when. Nothing to do with football.

England didn't lose it. Three players on the team did.

England didn't lose it. The England manager who CHOSE the three players on the team to do the penalty kicks did.

Why didn’t they show the streaker? We’ve already seen nudity, violence and Class A drugs today, couldn’t we at least have some fun?

[quote]I’d prefer someone like Terry or Gerrard or Rooney in the job

Terry has too much baggage. Gerrard is a good call, IMO.

The streaker wasn't naked.

I'm now watching the USA play Haiti in the Gold Cup, and y'all are lucky with how good your teams play. The US looks like shit even when winning. LOL. Everything is frantic and sloppy, no rhythm to the game. I understand why it's not big here. It's hard to get excited about a sport when your national team makes it look so ugly.

[quote] The streaker wasn't naked.

Ah, I feel better now. Thanks!

A national team needs players with deep roots to the country. They are going to have more passion to win for the nation.

that Italian GK is only 22, I thought he was older! He's currently a free agent! He's gonna be making big bucks!

R314, Donnarumma already signed with PSG and yes, he's getting big bucks. All of it was done before the Euros.

Are you saying that every member of the Italy team were born and bred Italians, r313? Because I am certain that cannot be true.

one of them was born in Brazil! He missed a pen today. He plays for Chelsea

Please enjoy some late-night eye candy courtesy of Daddy Mancini.

wow, he's in great shape.

[quote] Please enjoy some late-night eye candy courtesy of Daddy Mancini.

Well that was unexpected.

Many former players are still in great shape. except fat ronaldo.

Gerrard as the next manager? I don't think so.

R271 Oh, finally I understand why France is World Champion....

^^also for R313. All those French players with long, white, connection to their country won the World Cup for France.

[Quote]I’d prefer someone like Terry or Gerrard or Rooney in the job

I don't know about Gerrard, but aren't the other two reputed to be the thickest in the squad?

[quote] aren't the other two reputed to be the thickest in the squad?

I certainly hope so!

I think Super Frank is a possibility. He is super good at football and super smart! He took an IQ test and scored the highest or one of the highest...he did great in school.

Lampard got sacked at Chelsea this season...and they went on to win the Champions League.

Don't understand the call for Terry or Rooney to manage England. Based on what managerial achievement? You think those two planks are an improvement on Southgate?

[quote] .....well that stings

Who knew gays were so into soccerball?

Divegrass, R330.

R306, you are insufferable. You hate the rest of the world as much as Britain does. You wouldn't fit in anywhere else.

There is a lot to love about soccer, you see a lot of penis outlines and they rip off their shirts at the end to exchange with others, you see many pictures of them in locker rooms in various states of undress...

lol!

Nah r283, we North Londoners love England and Britain. We're one of the best things about this country. We just hate pieces of racist shit like you.

Uh huh, r335.

And let me guess - everybody you don't agree with is magically a "racist", right? Everyone who lives in the countryside is "racist" too, I imagine. Or an 'oik', and all so far beneath you and your enlightened ways, despite the fact you live in a grotty basement flat just so you can say you live near Islington.

I've met you a thousand, thousand times. You are just a carbon copy automatron, thinking, and doing and saying anything the Guardian tells you to, and believing yourself to be mentally and spiritually superior for it.

You're utterly typical, and predictable, and the worst thing of all: a bore.

R325 Southgate is the best we’ve had in years and he’s not stupid—just overcautious, and too stubborn to listen to other input.

Rooney is fairly dim, yes, so perhaps we should take him off the potential England manager hopeful list. Owen & Joe Cole would be poor choices for the same reason. Wayne wasn’t ever terribly arsed about making anything happen for England, either.

Frank is a cool head who’s survived the crucible of management failure, plus he has a vendetta when it comes to internationals (that disallowed goal), but he’s a bit touchy, so it’s hard to say whether he’d be more determined to get us a cup or more cynical about it ever happening. I do want him to manage over the other suggestions, but I think like Gary Neville he’s been spooked by his first attempt with club management, and like Rio & Carra he’s got too comfy doing punditry.

The next manager needs Southgate’s composure and compassion for his players, only with more grit and obvious passion as well. That’s why Terry could be a fantastic choice; as taking aside his checkered past and his low education he is intelligent in a streetwise cunning sense, and having been a captain of great ferocity and emotional investment (remember his river of tears? And the way he used to scream up the pitch?) there’s no doubt he will want to make a cup happen. Unfortunately, I think the stain of past incidents mean he would be cancelled before he could park at St. George’s for the first day of training.

Stevie G. has the same type of will and nerve as Terry, with the added bonus that he’s a stoical type who doesn’t lose his head or bow to peer pressure as much as the aforementioned. Only caveat about Gerrard in the role, is that he’s a one-club man, and they tend to have trouble bleeding for England instead of their colour. Also, he’d end up picking a starting XI that all came from or played for Liverpool.

There’s few others I can think of from those 2000s squads who would fit well. Nev or Carra would bring the emotion, but they’re better as pundits and I think they know that. Same for Micah Richards & Sol Campbell. Smudger is far too nice, it would be Kev Keegan all over again with him. Crouchy & Phil Neville would be laughed out of the training facility, no-one takes them seriously. Carrick is too low-key, not far enough removed from the team (he only stopped playing for England in 2014), and he’s not a natural decision maker, plus he’s currently coaching a failing Man United side. Becks & Cashley can do one; if Terry can’t have the job, the. they’re not who we want representing either. Maybe Scott Parker would be a good shout, given his experience and his successes in management so far. Ledley King is currently doing very well as a coach at Spurs, but that isn’t the same as management of course.

An ultimate dream of mine would be for Stevie & Frank to manage the next great England squad (say 2027?) together. Imagine the angst? The banter? The dreamy homoromantism? That is the next redemption arc I want to see. It would make the rest of the country extremely nervous and critical, though.

The manager doesn't have to be English, r337.

If Mou managed England next I’d lose my fucking mind. The memes, alone...

“They are going to keek you, they are going to beng you....”

R321 Ronaldo is a narcissistic creep, grooming his child to become a Mini-me through borderline abusive control of his life (intensive diet, exercise, hyperscheduling etc.). He’s also a cheating and selfish diva on the pitch, and a user of other people off it. He’s a horrible representative for Portugal, so I’m glad he’ll have to retire and go away soon.

[Quote]Terry could be a fantastic choice; as taking aside his checkered past and his low education

How could someone so stupid in any sense in life survive on anything but having bit crazies perform for his stupid life stew? Is he still married to the Teri gimlet?

do non-bandwagon Italy fans actually exist? this week i've only seen England fans and England haters cheering Italy by default...

anyway Grealish player of the tournament at the next World Cup. I’ve spoken it into existence now, can’t take it back 💁‍♀️

[quote] Is he still married to the Teri gimlet?

Hahahahaha, love that!

They’re only together for the kids anyway, mate. John does well with bits on the side.

It was all so predictable...from "It's Coming Home" and "Our Boys" and "Genius Sir Gareth" to what we know to expect from the English. We watched you flip in real time to your default switch, as usual.

I'm glad Italy won, but I'm not sure quite what the apparent social media racism was, and the little I saw didn't look like it came from angry England fans (some cliche monkey emojis from fake accounts).

[quote]when the camera panned over the VIP boxes and one of the English pundits said “oh, there’s Becks, with his new best mate Tom Cruise”

On the BBC when that clip popped up onscreen the commentator took it in, didn't miss a beat, then said '...A Few Good Men there...' then continued with the next phase. Nicely done indeed. That plus the England goal were the only good moments.

Didn't watch the penalties, I've seen that national nervous breakdown too many times. Grimly confirmed when I woke up today. It's not the despair I mind, it's the hope. Mary!

So David Beckham is now a Scientologist, I gather from all that.

Victoria would make a terrible clam. She might be a talent-free money-grubbing mantis, but she won’t be dictated to.

All joking aside now, I have loved watching games with DL; making the obvious jokes, being heartless savage bloodthirsty wenches to each other, thirsting over idiot sluts like Grealish or Daddy coaches & refs, and just putting aside our club loyalties or our preferences for other sports and entertainment to have a good time in this hell year. I wouldn't have been as massively into this tournament if it weren’t for you lot, so thanks for making it more bearable and enjoyable.

Vicky and her money would never be parted for Scientology, or anyone else for that matter.

MARY!

Prince George reacting to the first goal.

Why is that kid wearing a tie?

William ain't no Charles.

What really needs explaining is why Southgate chose Sancho, Rashford and Saka for the penalties. Sancho and Rashford were bought on just before the end of extra time solely for the penalties. Rashford hadn't played a single game throughout the tournament. To bring him on (supposedly injured) just to shoot for a crucial penalty was bizarre. And then to choose a 19 year old for the crucial penalty that would mean win or lose the Euro cup was bizarre. All are very young guys. Aside from tipping the result to Italy, those misses must be crushing those guys.

I like Southgate and he's obviously improved the England team enormously, but that made no sense.

Because it's the official England Euro 2020 tie, r353.

Italian men are the hottest, so I'm glad they won.

[quote]England didn't lose it. Three players on the team did.

Rubbish! This is why Americans shouldn't spout about a sport they don't understand. Two of those players are England's best penalty takers which is why Southgate subbed them in before the end of open play in anticipation of needing them for the kicks. They would've have proven their competence over their teammates in practice and would've been alerted beforehand that they would be needed if it came to spot kicks.

Southgate:

[quote]“I decided on the penalty takers based on what they’d done in training and nobody is on their own.

Also, Rashford and Sancho's penalty stats are impossible to ignore having gone something like 7/1 and 15/3 respectively. This just wasn't their day.

R356, everyone knows that England will always lose the tie. The kid should have too.

That George is giving me future tyrant vibes.

George likes dressing up. He'll treasure his tie and you'll see it make a reappearance in the 2062 Euros final.

[quote]The streaker wasn't naked.

Then surely they weren't technically a streaker?

Also, the logic of pulling players from the bench to take penalties is due to fatigue of those on the field so the task requires fresh legs.

R357 yeah alright, but England are the most homoerotic this year and most other years as well to be honest, so being a gay person you should have wanted them to lift the cup.

Poor stupid slattern Jack has made the predictably thick decision to go on Twitter and reply to trolls (didn’t think he could really read or type, so that’s a pleasant surprise).

He’s saying that he badly wanted a pen, but he couldn’t and wouldn’t argue with the gaffer. We know, babes, we know.

Surely wading into this is against the advice of the England PR/HR team, and UEFA, and the rest of the squad, and Dean Smith...

he's thick as a brick

In the first half, Hendo knew there something seriously wrong about the way Sterling in particular was getting targeted. The second he came on, he walked right up to Donnarumma and started warning him and getting him to back off.

That says to me he should have been the England Captain this year, and should be next year if he stays on and gets picked again (which he will, I hope).

God r367, what a dumb, dumb.

Sad to think that, as well as Henderson we could also lose Walker & Trippier from the squad by the next Euros (Germany 2024), due to age. They both acquitted themselves wonderfully in this year’s competition. Luckily, though, the youth and depth of the whole squad means we have plenty of excellent replacements for both. Let’s hope the older heads train up the younger heads properly, the way the likes of Henderson was trained by the Golden Generation.

Anticipate Fabian Delph, Tom Heaton, Danny Rose & Callum Wilson quietly dropping off the England call-ups list in the next three-to-five years, as well. Perhaps Conor Coady & Jesse Lingard too, if they aren’t called up again for the World Cup.

R364 Shaw is a chunky monkey.... he'd going be fat and slovenly within minutes of retiring.

Speaking of retiring... England supposedly is "young and upcoming" while Italy is old and drifting into history (like Belgium). Given that Argentina showed Brazil is not superhuman after all, England fans should redirect their passion to the World Cup next year. Italy doesn't really have a striker, so I think their performance this year won't be matched next year. France, Brazil, Argentina, Spain and England should be favorites for the WC

On more important matters did Pickford's arse used to be bigger? I remember it being one of the highlights of the last world cup but it seemed less impressive this tournament.

How well will teams fare playing in the desert at high heat? I think a few might come close to dying...

R372 Well, it'd happening in December, not summer, so it'll be 118 degrees, not 125.

R371 Well, he did need to lose weight.

I wonder why the libs haven't started to call for WC to be cancelled? Thousands of slave workers died building those fucking stadiums. So much for football being about "passion".

r374 He did. But at what cost?

I agree, putting that kind of pressure on a teenager for that last pen was insane. he might need to see a shrink after that.

Southgate wants to be in charge for Qatar

If they sack Southgate before the WC... they are insane. England out-performed every logical expectation.

r378 I'd let him. He's done pretty well with the team so far (lucky draws have helped admittedly). I think fans have to accept he's not "the one" and I doubt we'll do brilliant in the WC but he's got the team into a good place and there's no point desperately searching for a new manager then all the upheaval following that in the years run up to your biggest competition.

R374 oh, that’s coz I got Picksy on the hot yoga during Spring training. Sweat his ginger balls off and moaned the whole time, he did, but it worked a treat and he passed physicals like a dream. Good, eh?

He’s got way more shag-stamina now, as well, so that’s a tidy bonus. It were a bit too depressing to have a tumble last night, and it’s harder to get together during club season, so we’ll have to really go for it the next six weeks. Got to look on the bright side, haven’t you?

It's a draw r359, not a tie.

The front page of DailyMail today. Seem their editor speak datalounge.

yes, the Italian men were definitely hotter than the other teams.

They love to kiss

New footage shows Gareth Southgate chose Jordan Pickford and Kalvin Phillips for England's next penalties after Bukayo Saka... so where were Jack Grealish and Raheem Sterling on shootout list?

R386 judging by Jack’s reaction, I’d wonder whether he was on the list at all. Gareth is the only person in the land who doesn’t rate Jack—in fact, going by the minutes Jack actually got in this Euros, I’d even venture to say that Gareth doesn’t like him.

It wouldn’t be a shock that the plain and unassuming and unremarkable if capable man and former player—who was scapegoated for decades, always had to fight desperately for a chance to play, and bottled every one—can’t stand the beautiful charismatic golden child who doesn’t have to try to create magical plays and coasts through his brainless life doing whatever he wants without repercussion.

@ R387, a not implausible dynamic, which Jack's tone-deaf message today wouldn't undermine. But I can't see Gareth sacrificing the chance for desperate national glory due to a petty resentment. He's surely bigger than that.

Nonetheless it's Southgate and penalties, fucking penalties, which yet again are the crux of debate today. The P-word will haunt him till his last. He might as well wear it as a scarlet letter.

I was wondering why I suddenly saw tons of Italian flags go up

[quote] Jack's tone-deaf message today

Surely he’s allowed to defend himself?

Well, you can't blame Mick jagger for jinxing the team this time...

Most of my teams this year went down in defeat. But that's sports--if not for all the random stuff that can happen, like injuries, mistakes, fouls, chokes, etc., what would be the point of watching? There's always next season. The only thing that can't be remedied is extremely bad sportsmanship, which should make all players in all sports think very carefully before matches about their reactions to victory/defeat.

Pickford looked as though the defeat was causing him physical pain.

r393 I think he normally focuses his inner misery at a goal or near goal by screaming at the defensive lineup like a Visigoth with an ingrowing toenail. You can't really do that with penalties.

R393 watch him keep for Everton, man always looks like that. Just furious all day long, on the verge of setting about his own players because he had to get muddy. His stroke risk level must be through the roof.

Goalies in general are highly-strung animal, though. Like anyone else, they prefer not to actually do their job, but also like a lazy, low-stress life because that means their defense is solid and the rest of the team are keeping the sheet clean. If Jordan having to rage and put the scare into Stones & Walks & Maguire, there’s probably a legitimate reason (well, perhaps not with Stonesy, those two just go at each other for fun, like a divorced couple who are still in love).

Picksy’s mile-long balls, wayward kicks and dodgy punches & throws are what’s truly concerning about his game. With them, it’s like he’s telling the rest of the team, “I’ll just try and boot it all the way up and score for youse as well, shall I?” Not a good look.

Poor Kate. You know she couldn’t wait to swan on down to the podium and hand out medals to the victorious England team. Maybe next time, Duchess.

She had to hand out the trophies?????

Too delicious 🤣😂

R375 many of us longtime football fans are beginning to boycott international and domestic football. When it comes to blatant slaving & trafficking, bypassing international law, stealing from the public and essentially lobbying, there’s a big cancerous problem that cannot be ignored any longer.

Much as it breaks my heart, I’m not actively supporting any Prem teams or paying to watch/stream any games next season, because I’m sick of all the disgusting unethical money-grab horseshit—which has been going on all my life, but used to be at least subtle and easier to stomach. I take full responsibility for buying into it, but I see now at what cost that has come. Up to now I have always supported a non-league club as well as a PL team, but from here I’m just going all in with non-league. It’s just a drop in the ocean, but perhaps if there are enough drops...you never know.

Truly I believe we are now at peak corruption. The debacle over Super League back in the Spring awoke a sleeping dragon, thousands upon thousands of disgruntled grassroots fan who miss feeling like their game was something to be proud of and cheer for without a crushing weight of guilt. There’s also a massive contingent of fans who feel anger on a financial level, that they’ve been gentrified and priced out of something they considered a cultural home and sold down the river.

Not to abuse the watery metaphors, but there’s a big sea change coming, that I think Qatar WC will catalyse.

Why would Kate have been handing out the medals, r396? She's not part of UEFA.

[quote] can't see Gareth sacrificing the chance for desperate national glory due to a petty resentment. He's surely bigger than that.

A very good point. Southgate wouldn’t put in all this effort and endure all this heartbreak and censure again just to chuck it away on a vendetta. We mustn’t get carried away with dramatic headcanon.

And visual evidence does point to the fact that Southgate adores Jack as much as his other boys, and even dotes on him like a spoiled baby as indeed the rest of the team and the population do.

R386 what I’d like to know is how we bossed penalties when they didn’t matter as much in 2018, but fucked them up now.

#racistEngland

R402 chance would be a fine thing!

None of you want to admit the truth.... Southgate lost the game because of his political correctness, that was the only reason he put ngubu on.

Hey, asshole: How many fucking years has it been since England even got this far? Take your "PC" crap and shove it up your limey, worthless ass - there's your "un-pc" reaction.

England would still have shit fucking food and even shittier football if they had to compete against the ones who actually got them there.

R405 grooming gangs, destroyed communities, native English a minority in the capital city, stabbings, acid attacks, terror attacks.... I could go on. Thank God, they have curry, kebabs and Ngubu to make up for all of that though.

R406 is very stupid.

R407 Thank you, for your rebuttal.

R406? We have a large immigrant population here and yet our biggest problems are with "real" white Americans who can't accept democracy and go on mass shooting sprees. Stabbings of individuals making global news is an agenda and you're too stupid to recognize it isn't going on 24/7 just because your fucking echo chamber can't wait to go all hysterical over it. Meanwhile, when a white guy kills a baker's dozen here, that's a blip in your country, eh? You don't endlessly hear about it, do you?

Yet I'm sure your bigoted, racist ass manages not to blame your white self for the mass shootings, right? Why do you blame *individuals* for what they do when they're white, yet think if some non-white person stabs someone, you get to blame other non-white people who had nothing to do with it? Oh, yes, the fucking white Britons are simply perfect, not a single pedo or rapist to be found. Every one of them stepped out of Downton Abbey.

[quote]Thank God, they have curry, kebabs and Ngubu to make up for all of that though.

Make up for all that? Yeah, it does, because it's more likely they're serving you that curry every fucking day or playing on a football club every fucking day than "grooming" you or stabbing you.

God, when you're done reading the Daily Mail, do you pulverize it so you can snort it or shoot it into your veins since that shit is like a drug to you people?

R410 typical lib boomer with his head in the sand, I don’t read the daily mail.

You have absolutely no rebuttal, immigration has provided no benefits to Britain, it’s now a dead country. The only things you could bring up are food and football players. The native population are demoralised and being replaced that’s okay with you though.

Another country sacrificed at the alter of diversity.

R411, you should make sure you wipe your bum properly when you take a shit.

Can the race-obsessed trolls actually just fuck right off forever and remain fucked? Some of us are trying to MOURN in PEACE, and catharthise by talking about hot football men doing and saying gay things. Please either get with this program, or depart.

^^^ Can you imperial colonizers STOP ordering the rest of the world around? It's been 70-something years since you mattered. Ciao, ragazzi.

The thread is mainly about England and football r414, so it's quite reasonable for an English person to want to talk about the football. Why are you here?

Because I'm half Italian and a permanent EU resident, which I believe gives me just as much right if not one shot more.

broke: hoping Pep poaches Pickford so Stonesy can be with his man all year

woke: hoping Man City fall into sudden decline and ruination as they richly and karmically deserve so Everton can pick up Stonesy for a song and Pickford can be with his man all year

So, r416, as a half Italian and EU resident (which sounds like you don't have EU citizenship and don't live in Italy) you think you can dictate the direction of the thread? You're not even interested in talking about the football.

Not dictating anything. Mussolini did plenty of that. Just think that your all England, only England, nothing but England view when you were played off the pitch by a better team might warrant some counter-narrative to your dreary, dull football. Even the Italians attack more now.

So my understanding of the last few hours of this thread is there's now a race obsessed Italian-American throwing around stock tourist phrases like Mario on acid, that lives in a region of the EU that somehow doesn't experience intense Muslim and or African immigration and that this cultural homogeny relates to England being crap at penalty shootouts?

R420 good commenter number you got girl you are paranoid haha. Have you ever been to the EU?

R419, I'm from England but not a massive England national team fan. In fact, I'm happy Italy won because the yobbish jeers would have been excruciating if England had won (also, I like Italy). You're annoying, though.

English hooligans attack Italian fans after defeat.

English yobs throw a black man into the River Thames. Another black man was thrown onto rail tracks. The British media is ignoring all this and sweeping it under the carpet.

[quote] The British media is ignoring all this and sweeping it under the carpet.

No they're not. The racist abuse was widely reported today and widely condemned. Also your inability to vaguely fact check your posts by at least looking at the tweets below is the reason boomers accept any old crap posted online as true

WTF are you disparaging boomers in general, R425? If you have a grievance with one person here, there's no need to attack the demographic to which you likely misplace the person.

This is why we hate us.

This is the streaker.

Oh My God R423, there's nothing quite as shocking as a minor scuffle.

The English are the worst when they're bad, and that's often. Worst tourists, worst fans.

[quote]violence ensued onto the streets of London...

Violence? They call those little dust-ups violence?

MARYS!!!

The British media isn't sweeping anything under the carpet r424 but I guess it would be good to verify some videos first and everyone knows that these racist thug violent hooligans are a tiny, tiny and in every way unrepresentative group of people in England, who probably aren't even football fans. It's like saying all black men in America are violent criminals just because a few are.

I don't know. These look like fans to me.

Yes, they're moron fans trying to get into the stadium or acting like drunk exuberant idiots in Trafalgar Square. They're not being racist or kicking anyone's heads in in that video, r432.

R411, here's the rebuttal: If England is a dead country, it is because it was always destined to be one. Do you actually know any English history? After the Romans walked in and took over, much of the indigenous population (Celts) took to the hills of Wales and Cornwall. Then the Danes sashayed in and held the country for 400 years. England is a small island with scant natural resources compared to Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas. They built up their country from raiding, basically, starting in the 1400s. They siphoned off the wealth of nations not as ruthless as themselves, not as organized, not as single-minded and desperate. Britannia HAD to rule the seas or run out of every resource. Then the Industrial Revolution made most of Britain a shit-hole while London and the aristocratic estates were in a bubble of unmerited prosperity. Britain has made war and warriorism its god and now that god has let them down. Starting in 1914 England and the Brit. Empire has been in steady decline. Don't blame the immigrants. If they all left tomorrow, Britain would still be in the merde, just with fewer people and a blancmange culture no one wants to import. Sorry.

R424, what did I say way upthread? Inevitable British bloodyminded thuggery. They truly are the Trumpers of Europe. Hope the better elements get control before they are ostracized by the rest of the world.

That's an interesting reading of history, R434.

Watched most of this tournament. Thought Italy had the best game - despite the outrageous and eyerollingly elaborate staging for frees.

Anyway, really happy England lost. Hate their ugly-ass fans. Saw a sign in the crowd: It's going Rome. lmao

They keep doing this ‘bad apples’ line, they’ve been doing it for years and years and years - when are they gonna acknowledge their massive problem with anti-social behaviour and that a large portion of their population are scumbags? This ‘real fans’ stuff is so eyeroll. These are their real fans, if they don’t like it they should deal with it.

a lot of people said kane’s golden boot at wc18 was undeserved, but it was more merited than crispy ronald’s this year....

imo jordan pickford deserved the 2020 award💁‍♀️

[quote] Then the Danes sashayed in

I love Datalounge history class.

[quote] It is a simple picture on the surface, but with a seemingly unending depth. Kane, tense, uneasy, blurred from his nervous glance, looks upon what can only be described as an enigma- a figure that is simultaneously Buddha and Thor- a troll-like creature of the flesh - a manifestation of physicality.

[quote] The king of the material world that Kane strives and struggles to dominate looks back - almost, but not quite directly, with a complex, royal gaze, his mouth slightly ajar.

[quote] The majesty of this photograph lies here - this expression, much like Da Vinci's timeless Mona Lisa, seems to shift and morph with the viewer's mind. In one viewing, a slight smirk can be seen, in others this is a curled lip of disgust. But the expression is always capricious, and intimately subtle. Is Tango admonishing Harry for having failed to score a "facking goal"? Flanked on each side by equally complex characters, the scene almost resembles a royal judgement or a court trial, with the king sat in judgement, perched physically and spiritually above the nervous subject. Is this a ceremonial approval? Does Tango here bless the England captain with his boon? This ambiguity is the burning soul of the photograph that will never be snuffed out.

[quote] The framing and composition are sublime; the artist clearly and boldly ignoring the traditional rule of thirds and placing the two most important subjects into the middle of the piece in an idiosyncratic, quasi-naïve, almost Wes Anderson-esque fashion, creating an otherworldly, storybook-like feeling that enhances the drama inherent to the events at hand. The use of a zoom lens allows for the distant subjects to simultaneously appear unnaturally close, as if this meeting is occurring somewhere other than physical space. The choice to omit the face of Harry Kane too amplifies and elevates the mystery of the footballer's audience with Tango.

R441, where the hell is that from?

I shudder to imagine how life would be for us if England had held on for the win.

[quote]I shudder to imagine how life would be for us if England had held on for the win.

Racists would have gone off-duty for the night, so there's that.

Initial analysis of the racist twitter abuse indicates most of it came from outside the UK, according to a BBC report last night, which is what Gareth Southgate had already said and was also suggested by some of the messages that were published - e.g. monkey emojis widely used by racists in some European countries, but nor common in the UK. They followed this with a piece on systemic racism in some sectors of British life, so they weren't pushing an agenda..

Interesting that no-one has yet raised the point about intersectional clashes re. race & sexuality. Gay & bi players (statistically numbering a hundred or more across all world Leagues) still do not feel safe to come out and stand up to be counted, for fear of violent backlash and phobic abuse.

Further to this, its a matter of disappointing fact that, in football, the least accepting and most condemnatory demographics of homosexuality tend to be POC/non-white, or from non-white non-Western nations. Historically, it has always been like that. It’s why gay black player Justin Fashanu lived and died the way he did, and why before he signed a contract his family were the first ones to oppress him into tortured silence and keep him in the closet—perhaps out of fear for their son & brother, but oppressively nonetheless.

Rainbow laces & armbands are a good start in the move toward changing this paradigm( a visible token of awareness and a willingness to accept, and one to which England NT as well as Denmark admirably and consistently committed in this year’s Euros. Odd that, as far as documentary evidence shows, there weren’t any POC players or fans out there advocating for LGB in such a way, even on or for the aforementioned teams—is that in itself a racial issue?

Some have indicated that this is because POC people feel the matter of their race being abused is a more urgent and weighty one than that of sexuality, and that whites have the ‘luxury’ of centring gay rights because they do not currently face overt racial hatred in society. Nonetheless, this doesn’t answer the question of why gay POC people are subject to silencing, shame, hatred and even threats of conversion in their own families and communities.

Some honest transparent discussion about the treatment of homosexuality in POC cultures and families would go a long way to improving rights for all minority groups, and curbing this tendency for cruelty coming from the stands. The problem is that minority groups compete for space and air and a microphone in the public arena, and shout each other down.

Link please, R445? I’m on the BBC site right now and haven’t seen this analysis in any of the racism/football articles.

To put a final cap on the point about penalties—no-one can truly be forced to take a penalty. There is a shortlist of penalty takers from which a kicker must be drawn, and if a player is on that list they may be under quite a bit of pressure from a manager or coach or teammates to take a kick, but there is no absolute rule that a player must. If any of those young black boys felt completely unsure and refused, they could have. Ultimately, their choice to follow through and try is their own responsibility. That’s what growing up and having privilege and getting opportunities is about, and sometimes people who face these challenges will fall down or fail. The players can’t—and as far as their statements show, haven’t, to their credit—disavow their part in it.

That said, given how young and inexperienced and doubtlessly eager to please those players are, it was irresponsible of Southgate to put their names down at all, as well as neglectful of the older cooler heads on that team to step back and let it happen. Left on that pitch at the end of the match, Henderson, Walker, Maguire, Kane, Pickford, Stones were all older players with their heads in the game and experience taking penalties at this level, with the authority to object or intercede. Perhaps someone should have tried to prevent the obvious disaster.

[quote] Interesting that no-one has yet raised the point about intersectional clashes re. race & sexuality.

With this as your opener, and using Justin Fashnau as an example, shouldn’t you be talking about how Justin faced racial and homophobic discrimination from a racist and homophobic Britain rather than twisting it into a “it’s the black fans fault :(“ bullshit diatribe?

R446 = scumbag

R449 you missed the point, which was that for one minority group to demand acceptance while denying another minority that same acceptance is hypocritical, and no-one is discussing that.

At no point has anyone denied that during his tragically short life Fashanu faced unacceptable levels of racial discrimination from so-called fans and other players.

It’s actually possible to hold someone accountable for their own prejudices but also defend them from discrimination, though for some this idea is too complex to cope with.

R450 I got your point loud and clear - interpret minorities’ advocacy for themselves as an indication that they do not advocate for other groups, because god forbid they’d be busy enough helping their own out of poverty or discrimination.

And use this as a mechanism to avoid any discussion or critical analysis of responsibility on the part of the white majority (to which I’d bet good money you belong?).

This is a gay site, for gay people, to discuss matters that concern gay people such as equal rights and freedom from sexuality discrimination across all cultures and ethnicities. How then is it unreasonable that we would or should place gay rights on top of our agenda?

Your point was already raised and even-handedly considered at R446:

[quote] Some have indicated that this is because POC people feel the matter of their race being abused is a more urgent and weighty one than that of sexuality, and that whites have the ‘luxury’ of centring gay rights because they do not currently face overt racial hatred in society.

Therefore, the suspicions deflections from pertinent questions are thine.

R447, I watched it live on Newsnight last night, so don't have a link. It may be on the I-Player, if you're in the UK.

[quote] This is a gay site, for gay people, to discuss matters that concern gay people such as equal rights and freedom from sexuality discrimination across all cultures and ethnicities.

But this is not what you mean. What you’re doing is weaponizing homophobia in order to enact racism. And that is not what gay rights is about. Gay people (since they come from all races and ethnicities) must advocate for anti racism and all minorities as part of gay rights, it’s not exclusive to white people (even tho you see it that way). Gay liberation requires freedom for all minorities, all ethnicities, all races because that’s who we are. Your cynicism in totally subverting that into a “it’s all black peoples fault” is intellectually ignorant, or dishonest, or both!

R450 is a troll and racist. Unfortunately, these types seem to be becoming the rule, not the exception, on DL. Every other thread is race-baiting. But they still won't succeed. "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."

The BBC's Ros Atkins' take:

R454/R455 lecturing and shouting down a lower-class gay British female—who has legitimate concerns about covert misuses of political power and activism in her own country, based on historical context—about civil rights and privilege. Wow. Not a good look. Remind me again—how does that lyric go again? You know, “woman is the [redacted] of the world...”.

Reading your posts over, you contradict yourself as well as me, and clearly haven’t taken a single point I raised on board. If you want to buy wholesale into government lies and rise to the level of their instigation, that’s your lookout, but don’t expect everyone else to take what’s happening at face value. This is a Tory government ignoring class issues and throwing all minorities into the fray to save their own skins, and I’ve seen this happen before (albeit in a less severe and frantic and desperate way). My posts do come from a place of compassion for all minorities—I can see that we’re all doomed if we go along with this, let elitists steal and harness our anger.

You’re being played, but you seem to be enjoying the tune.

[quote]lecturing and shouting down a lower-class gay British female

Who is a lower class gay British female?

No British person would ever describe themselves as lower class.

A British person would say working class, R457.

[quote] gay British female

Similarly I think you would have said ‘woman’ rather than female if you are British. Female / male is more American or international way of using a noun to refer to people whereas in the UK/ Ireland it’s almost always man / woman. But enjoy that fantasy.

If you are a woman, and I didn’t know that before because you didn’t mention it, that just is another example of your mechanizing minority rights to defend your racism, now it’s women’s rights. You’re at worst a liar and at best a total cynic.

Are they going to show up at 10 Downing or not? I could use an ashtray, Jack.

I didn't detect any shouting. It's textbook how people displaying bullying attitudes always reach for the "You are bullying me!" defense.

But if you really don't see how your remarks are racist, read some books about racism by black people. That's what I did, starting decades ago. It's hard to see the water if you're a fish, but it can be done.

[quote] Are they going to show up at 10 Downing or not?

I don’t think so.

Thanks, R463. Good for them.

Made me laugh

Concept vs. Execution has always been the cross the England squad bore.

Still don’t like it, but I suppose you’ve got to respect the Double Down.

david beckham and tom cruise fist bump.. still feels illegal

Cruise has a new face, Beckham is covered in tattoos. The fist-bump publicly signifies the confederacy of dunces.

The only positive thing about England losing is that the slimy Bozo Johnson and his repugnant government aren't able to exploit their victory. And we all know they would have behaved so triumphantly and tried to claim the team as theirs and representing their England.

True R469. I am glad that politicians are taking beatings in the press over their little PR stunts, and that the team themselves called them out. This tepid milky Twinings tea is delicious.

As Gareth Southgate states, the racist tweets have been analysed and a disproportionate number came from overseas accounts, and not from the UK.

People forget that because the England team is made up of players from so many different places, England is followed by a worldwide audience, not just an English one. In particular Arsenal and Man United have huge followings overseas.

At Uni I once met a Lebanese Musl!m student who followed Liverpool (for Sala. I’m guessing), and watching games at the campus bar he was known to mutter to himself and come out with some alarming and vile racist comments aimed at both black and white players. Really horrible offputting man.

More interesting numbers from the Guardian.

During the tournament, out of 585,000 tweets aimed at players through the tournament, there were 44 racist tweets, comprising less than 0.0075% of the totality of tweets aimed at the players.

Now we know that a strong proportion of the 44 racist tweets were foreign, and given that the population of the UK is approximately 70 million, Id say that to conclude that "Britain is racist" from the racist Euro tweets is incorrect.

They didn't lose during the group stages, although the draw with Scotland was obviously a disappointment to fans. I think it would be more pertinent to look at the tweets after losing the final and the missed penalties.

Southgate is a idiot. He announced that he knew his first team 11 months before the qualifiers, which stops all players thinking they can or need to push for a place and keep training hard to perform their best.

Also, Southgate said he picked penalty takers from what he saw in training; taking a peno in training is a world away from taking one in a crucial match front of 60,000 people. Grealish for example said he wanted to take penalties, begged to be on the list (as well as just play( all tournament, but because Southgate kept benching him and taking him off the pitch, Jack ended up demotivated in training and therefore putting himself out of consideration.

It was a vicious cycle of poor planning that began before the Euros.

[quote] The only positive thing about England losing is that the slimy Bozo Johnson and his repugnant government aren't able to exploit their victory.

They would still be able to point to getting to the final being a result of the Brexit spirit.

Tokenism works about as well as affirmative action, and this debacle was proof. No one wins, especially POC.

Just let people who know what they’re doing and can deliver do the job, end of. Don’t even consider their colour or creed, and that goes both ways.

I love that the England team turned down a reception at Downing Street.

R477, what does that have to do with the final? Do you really think the players' skin colour entered Southgate's head when he was choosing who should take the penalties?

[quote] Do you really think the players' skin colour entered Southgate's head when he was choosing who should take the penalties?

Is there anyway to know the truth of whether he did or didn’t? He certainly would never be able to confess it if he did, so it would not be possible to make a determination based on whatever he may say.

[quote] The only positive thing about England losing

There are countless, endless, limitless positive things about England losing.

Whoever thinks Southgate would have chosen players to take the penalties in the final of a major international tournament on the basis of their skin colour is an idiot. He chose them because they are top players who are more than capable of scoring goals. It didn't work out, but that's football. Italy missed two of their penalties too. One of the most famous missed penalties in history is Roberto Baggio's in the 1990 World Cup final against Brazil. Missed penalties happen.

Are you Scottish, r481?

R483 close but no cigar

R480 exactly, unconscious bias is called as such for a reason.

They think its all over!

R486 mate come on it’s too fucking soon

I'm British, born and bred in England , Black and I'm glad that England lost, if only to not hear the moronic cries of "it's coming home" that ONE white drunken idiot managed to make sound like a war cry round our way when England beat Denmark ( we came out and told him to shut the fuck up, because unlike him, people have to go to work/do work in the morning). I wouldn't have been able to cope if they all came out after winning the Euros.

Furthermore, I wouldn't have liked how both the Conservatives and Labour would have used the fact that there were more than normal an amount of Black and mixed race players in the team as political scoring with the amount of racism that is riven in both parties with one being better then the other , but no picnic if one is Black or a person of colour with "wrong think."

Since the 70s, there is always a sprinkling of Black men amongst the white, racist hooligan element. What the fuck is up with that? Breaking into Wembley and burning the Italian flag in Leicester Square? Glad that my male kin have some type of code and will never be that one Black man amongst a bunch of white chavs who can't help them in life. That's assimilation gone too far!

[quote] political scoring with the amount of racism that is riven in both parties with one being better then the other , but no picnic if one is Black or a person of colour with "wrong think."

Good catch. Every party is guilty of doing this.

More recently they do it to us gays, too. The Labour Party in particular are cunts for this—hiring for ‘LGBT diversity’ and recruiting young naïve gay people, while at the same time expelling and shutting down dialogue when someone dares to criticise certain ideologies.

R485, except it isn't unconscious bias. The choice of who takes the penalties isn't a last-minute thing, just done on the pitch at that moment, and it's not even just down to the coach. It's part of a strategy put together in advance by the coaching team and often the players themselves and mostly follows a set practice.

R488, the lager louts who smashed up Leicester Square and invaded Wembley aren't necessarily racist. This kind of behaviour stems from somewhere deep in the English psyche and is more to do with the somewhat perverted competitiveness of English society, which is cultural and not ethnic. And I don't mean healthy competition, as in sport, but some weird need for England always to be proving that it's no. 1, while deep-down fearing that it isn't. The juvenile bottom humour is part of this weird aggression. The people who booed other countries' anthems or burnt the Italian flag aren't necessarily racist but they are nationalist. Just look at the make-up of the government to see what I mean.

Yes, of course there is a racist element too, but racism doesn't explain all this bizarre behaviour.

Not that I'm one to defend Starmer, but he's managed to put a lid on those tendencies in Labour and no one has been expelled for criticising trans ideology. On the contrary, Lloyd Russell-Moyle was made to apologise and found himself out of the shadow cabinet when he attacked JK Rowling for saying that the people who menstruate are women.

Don't forget that it was also the Tories who first proposed a gender self-identity law, which has now thankfully been dropped, although Sturgeon is trying to keep it going in Scotland.

[quote]This kind of behaviour stems from somewhere deep in the English psyche

It does, and football demonstrably brings out the worst. Some brain-dead will use that hopeless energy to turn on 'their own': recall how effigies of Beckham were burned after he'd petulantly got himself sent off in that astonishing game way back against Argentina. He was the pretty-boy poster-child star of the time, which doubtless added to thug aggression.

Football gets to people at a level beyond rationality. Witness the shots of highly-paid commentary panels punching the air and hugging when England scored. Imagine that profound hope and energy in England's deplorables, men left behind, fuelled by junk tabloids and beer. They're unlikely to say, 'On balance, we didn't quite deserve to win.' Lashing out is a pathetic compensatory assertion of 'victory.'

One pet theory about European football is that it’s a proxy channel for collective anxieties and trauma left over from the Great Wars, and a way to emotionally negotiate the shifts of power balances between all the nations & islands of the region.

Bit drastic as an idea, but I could see it.

R473 Was Rashford's mural defaced from abroad too? Face it. The UK is an extremely racist country that invests a lot in hiding it.

R214 as well as Jordan Henderson, longtime England defender John Stones also kept his silver medal on. Classy man, and handsome as well.

Notice it was the youngest and more emotional players who removed them, probably in the heat of the moment.

[quote] I'm British, born and bred in England , Black and I'm glad that England lost

Isn’t that what people already assumed?

R495, Rashford's mural wasn't defaced, it had some graffiti sprayed on it and the graffiti was not even racist. We don't exactly know what it said because it was immediately covered up with heart symbols and has since been restored and dozens of messages of love and appreciation for Rashford have been posted onto the wall. The one idiot responsible for the graffiti is spoke only for himself, not the local community or Britain as a whole.

[quote]The vandalism of a mural of England footballer Marcus Rashford was “not believed to be of a racial nature”, police have said as they appealed for witnesses.

The mural looks perfect for painting in cum drops off the lips.

R498 makes a good point. Sometimes in the rush for perceived rectification of justice, actual facts of the case are missed.

mens’ football be like a dark Netflix drama: microcosmic angst, political intrigue, violent scenes, cycles of trauma & abuse, main characters going through it, ambiguous downer ending, intricate rituals

^ That's why most of the world couldn't bear the thought of England winning, r501. In American sports, it all gets forgotten the day after. No one cares who won the Super Bowl or the NBA finals two days ago. England, on the other hand, are still using the the1966 World Cup to mock and insult other countries.

Most of the world couldn't have cared less, R502. Where are you getting this from?

R502 is right. Certainly in Europe and other parts of the world where football is big (i.e. the entire world aside from the US) there was a concerned anxiety at the thought of England winning because of the aggressive English nationalism it would have released and the way the Johnson government would have tried to exploit it. We would have never stopped hearing about it.

This isn't an anti-England thing because English clubs are hugely popular around the world, but the English national team brings out the worst kind of English jingoism and arrogance in England. Which is a shame, because the England team itself has made great strides to be the opposite of that.

To add, many of us in England who are proud of the team itself also feared an England win for the same reasons.

And that's the exactly problem with England: resolutely refusing to let go of, and desperately clinging on to glories that are fading into the dim and distant past. See also: Brexit. To the rest of the world it looks sad and increasingly pathetic.

[quote]Most of the world couldn't have cared less, [R502]. Where are you getting this from?

Actually, most of the world cared and was watching, r503. Not big in the US I know, but mattered in most other places.

[quote]many of us in England who are proud of the team itself also feared an England win

[quote]And that's the exactly problem with England: resolutely refusing to let go of, and desperately clinging on to glories that are fading

The second quote above is too glib, as the first quote above indicates. The Brexit 'victory' was 52-48, which shows a substantial percentage who hate and fear nationalistic triumphalism.

Most thinking people in England and around the world can see right through Johnson and his shameless posh bluster. His friends in the press have given him multiple free passes due to Covid.

74 million people in the US voted for Trump, despite it all, but I'm aware there's a better America there too, some of whom post on DL.

People who thought Boris Johnson would have been able to take any glory from an England win know nothing about England, the UK, Europe or politics in general.

The right wing pro Brexit brigade would have been able to enjoy an England victory the same way Trump enjoyed the women's US team winning the World Cup.

The England team wouldn't have allowed Johnson to enjoy it. They're bright young men who know the influence they carry in the media and they would have taken on the Tory government at every step.

R473, I think Toby Young was, as so often, getting his facts wrong, conflating two different analyses. The Guardian sponsored an analysis of abusive tweets addressed at the England team and manager in the first week - most went to Southgate, then equally to Kane and Sterling . There were a little over 2000 abusive messages sent to the team, of which 44 (2%) were racist - presumably these were only sent to the non-white players, of course. They didn't analyse where these came from, at least not in the Guardian's published report. Last week a BBC report on Newsnight said that initial investigations into the racist tweets on their own addressed to players after the final had a large proportion originating outside the UK. I'm sure there are racist tweeters in the UK (four have now been arrested), but it is likely that a good proportion of the tweets came from abroad, either from actual racists, or else troll-farms inciting division. Like the apparently non-racist graffiti on the Rashford mural, the actual evidence is either ignored, prejudged or distorted to reinforce a message of division and bandwagon-jumping. So we get outraged opinion pieces from the Guardian's usual writers, and also Johnson blowharding about lifetime bans of racists going to football matches, neither of which taker into account what actually happened and what really need to be addressed.

[quote] The England team wouldn't have allowed Johnson to enjoy it. They're bright young men who know the influence they carry in the media

It’s fitting then that these bright young men didn’t get to enjoy it either. If they are that petty and partisan, they deserve the negativity towards them that you indicate they were willing to use against others.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ ^ ( .)( .)

Meanwhile, the Rashford mural above didn't even contain any racist graffiti. Just regular "piss off" stuff that any white player who missed a penalty shot would have got.

Didn't stop the virtue signallers though. They NEEDED it to be racist, so they just ignored the news that it wasn't racist and carried on pretending that it was, culminating in a large group of them taking the knee in front of the non-racistized mural of the multi-millionaire football star who hadn't even been subject to racist abuse.

Almost as if...almost as if... the demand for racism is outstripping the supply...

Here is a photo of the "racist" Rashford mural.

Note there are no racist terms used there.

The Manchester police who had hurriedly covered up the mural and refused to release what was written on it, and who intentionally stirred up the "it must be racist" hysteria regarding the graffiti to bolster their own 'wokepoints', were finally forced to concede that it was not a "racist incident" - once a photo of the uncovered mural went viral.

Those two are just tone-deaf to post those videos on the private jet and living it up in the Turks and Caicos.

Lewis Hamilton racially abused online after British Grand Prix win.

The media are in a difficult position regarding this.

Report it and make a huge deal of the racist abuse (the bulk of which will be coming from oversees troll factories) and they draw more attention to it and encourage the trolls for the next time, knowing they'll get the attention again.

Don't report it with the intention of not drawing attention to it and get criticized for being complicit.

R512/R516 this is what I hate so much—the reification of mega-rich footballers who don’t give a shit about one single tournament or playing for their country. They don’t care, about national pride or about little kids who look up to them, so don’t try to tell me they do. All the weepy apologetic press statements and crying for the camera mean nothing compared to actual actions.

The social media videos and pictures coming out tell the tale—this Euros was just a well-paying if slightly stressful short-term gig to the team, and now it’s over the lads get 21 days or more all expenses to holiday in a private resort in the beautiful Mediterranean before they go back to their own glittering club careers, while the rest of us struggle on as ever trapped at home trying to make ends meet.

It doesn’t matter what colour the player are—they’re bougie elites laughing at the gullible peasants. Yes, even and especially the POC who refuse to inure themselves to the customary fan criticism (which as others upthread have pointed out, does not tend to racial hatred). These ‘bright young men’ are merely puppets groomed to be athletes from a young age and then given obscene earnings to play fixed competitions that entertain the proles.

The race discourse is merely a distraction tactic to ensure that the viewing public don’t focus on player salaries & lifestyles or on the big money backroom deals of the business during this difficult time for most. You’re not supposed to notice the gorilla in the room....

R508, you're mistaken if you think the outburst of exuberant "patriotism" in the event of an England win would have been only from Brexit supporters. The referendum vote of 52-48 was a disaster in terms of what it says about Britain's (England's) understanding of itself and its place in the world, and many of the 48% still hold views of British superiority. Even Gareth Southgate - muse of the new "progressive" patriotism, vocal Brexit opponent and anti-racist activist - succumbed to a minor instance of the "let's revive the spirit wot won the war" rhetoric just before the Euro final.

So, yes, for many of us in England, there was actually a fear of the outburst of jingoism from all sides that a victory at the Euro finals would have produced.

R511, it's not so much a case of the bright young men of the England team not allowing Boris and his government to enjoy a Euro victory, but they would have not wanted Boris and his government to exploit an England victory - which they would have tried to do in an vomit-inducing way.

Patriotism, and the pride of the English in their past and their future potential, is a good thing.

It used to be standard for there to be a Downing St reception for successful UK athletes and teams. It's now been thoroughly politicised (and both sides will claim - They started it!). There could still be a Buck House reception, thankfully.

That's true r522, but it depends on what you're saying and the context as well. Invoking the Second World War for an international football match probably isn't such a good idea.

[quote]It used to be standard for there to be a Downing St reception for successful UK athletes and teams. It's now been thoroughly politicised (and both sides will claim - They started it!). There could still be a Buck House reception, thankfully.

The clue is in the word "successful". England didn't win anything.

Wales had a homecoming parade and concert when they made the semi finals of the Euros in 2016, It was billed as "a nation saluting its heroes".

When England lost their semi final match against Croatia in the 2018 World Cup the idea that they should have a parade or reception was immediately dismissed.

Seeing the England team react to being given medals after the match I doubt any of the players would have been willing to have an official reception with any politicians or royalty. Because they wouldn't have felt they merited one.

When Team GB & NI return from the Olympics there will undoubtedly be some form of official reception. provided of course they win at least 1 gold medal.

I would have thought being finalists counts as something. It was, by any standards, a good achievement.

I am buying a new dress. I am not actually buying a dress, but it feels like it.  The dress made from a pretty flowing white lace, with a lovely red rose appliqué detailing on the trim and the neckline, and three heraldic lion embroidered in navy blue over the bodice. I am not the kind who wears dresses, usually, but this one is beautiful and I feel compelled to put it on. When I do put it on, however, the fabric burns my skin. I want to explain this, but I can’t. I need to take it off, but I know if I took it off I would start sobbing and never be able to stop.

Someone has taken the loss so badly they've lost their mind. Sad.

They keep trying to bring Rashford down, but it never works.

Why don't they name the player from Everton?

R530, it's English media law. I don't know the details but this has happened in many other cases involving famous people. It doesn't stop non-English media outlets reporting names though. Iceland media is reporting it's Gylfi Sigurðsson.

R530/R531 we have a thread about the Everton scandal.

R529 I don’t believe Rashy even needs to address haters anymore. He knows he’s right, why even get into it?

After this year’s debacle, I wonder if Grealish will choose to answer the next call-up. I have a feeling he might leave Gareth on read....

Getting to the final of a major international tournament for the first time in 55 years isn't really a debacle, r534.

R535 true enough—but Jack could have gone one better, and won it. His chances were better than most of the players on the list, because he’s so confident and he’s got his stride in the ascension of his success. He knows it, the team knows it, Gareth knows it, England know it, and the world knows it.

For that matter, Hendo or Shaw or Trippier or Philips could have won it, too, for much the same reason. Given the work and heart these skilled and composed veteran players put into that tournament, against all odds, they have a right to be upset about their mismanagement and about the horrible situation their juniors were put in, and to rethink their dedication to playing for their country in future if management is not changed or brought to task.

Because it’s become clear that the England manager still doesn’t entirely trust all of his players, and seems especially to resent and misjudge Grealish—for his lifestyle, for his talent, for not coming up through the traditional English U16/U18/U21 ranking system). With their leader playing favourites and playing politics, it’s no wonder certain among the squad feel held back from using their full bravura and skill to win. To return to our example, Jack just had to watch helplessly as his effort went down in flames, thanks to foolhardy decisions made by a man who sent knee-knocking kids in Jack’s rightful place. In the post-match footage you can see that Jack looks angry and betrayed and let down, more than just heartbroken or sorry.

You might be a little overinvested, R536. Jack is meanwhile fucking about in Mykonos with barely a thought in his charmingly empty little head.

R537 not really. I’m under no illusion that footballers care about international tournament performances beyond the minutes they’re on the pitch. I get it, I know how it all works. Some of us are paid to think, others are paid to play. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

But I also know a little bit about the egos of athletes, and about how the business works behind the scenes. Thanks to that knowledge, I feel confident saying what I said. I’ve seen the looks on their faces before, I know what it spells. Just thought someone should point that out here before the thread gets closer. Whatever.

You're clearly bonkers is what you are, R538.