Sue Snell

No, you are not. Whoever wrote that is clueless. In the book, Sue was yelling "plug it up," but she did not know about the prom "prank" and she stayed home on prom might. She thought she was pregnant and wanted Tommy's baby and began to freak that he was going to fall for Carrie. That is what led her to the gymnasium. At the end she find half-dead Carrie and she and Sue communicate via telepathy because Sue has powers, too. Carrie realizes Sue was not in on it then she dies. In the original movie, as you mention, Sue didn't know about the pig's blood—or any prom prank.

She is innocent of that crime.

Why do people on the internet lie so much???

Shue Shnell! Thish ish my favorite Shisshy Shpacshek movie.

Back when I was in grade school, I had friends who insisted that at the end of the film after Carrie has killed the mother, the creaking that Carrie hears is the devil coming down from the top of the stairs (5:51 of the following clip). And that’s why she pulls herself and her mother’s body into the prayer closet.

I remember telling them no, they we’re watching the wrong movie. But they were convinced.

Three separate things: 1) Satanists; 2) Wiccans; 3) people wih telekinetic powers.

Please. If anything, my daughter was too much a goody two shoes! I warned her to stay out of other people’s business…but she didn’t heed my advice and look where it got her. Twenty years of expensive psychotherapy!

That's actually an angle in the book missing from the movie: Sue is made the scapegoat for the whole disaster & has become something of a local pariah. The locals want to believe she was in on it, but her whole story in the book is that she prompted Tommy to ask Carrie as a way to expiate her guilt as being part of bullying Carrie. Even though some of Stephen King's other female characters are pretty weak, he really gets the "kill or be killed" psyche of teenage girls.

I HATE the way the movie changed the ending and eliminated the brief moment of compassion Sue was able to show Carrie at the end. In the book, Sue comes across Carrie at the end of her rampage, and Carrie, thinking Sue was in on the prank, starts to attack Sue. Sue mentally begs Carrie to look into her mind to see the truth, and Carrie's powers allow her to see that Sue really was trying to be nice in asking Tommy to take Carrie to prom. Sue then holds Carrie as she dies from her wounds. So much more depth than the film's simplistic "Carrie turned evil and is haunting Sue from the grave" crap.

They tried to bring Sue back in during the finale of the last remake, but it came across as too cheesy. But so did just about everything else in that movie.

King has often said he felt Sue was a character he never really understood. He always questioned her motives for being nice to Carrie.

The involvement of Sue and Tommy is ambiguous. How does Sue know exactly when to show up during the coronation and why is she there in the first place. She looks upset when she discovers the wires for the bucket but the lack of total transparency is what makes the characters so interesting.

Betty Lynn does a spectacular job at the prom where she breaks down and tells Carrie the story about her prom, which we learned was all improvised.

[quote]King has often said he felt Sue was a character he never really understood. He always questioned her motives for being nice to Carrie.

That's so interesting because I always thought he did a good job of explaining it. Sue has an inner monologue about how what happens to Carrie in the locker room forces her to face the ugly fake facade so much of her life is: that on the surface she's Suzy Cupcake the nice girl but in reality she the kind of person who torments a vulnerable outcast just to go along. For her, making this small sacrifice to help Carrie fit in is the only way to begin to flip that around.

Buckley grills Sue and Tommy about why they are doing the prom thing to Carrie. Sue says to help her to get her to fit in. The way Amy Irving plays it is sincere. She doesn't seem to be lying at all.

I haven't read the book in ages, but doesn't Carrie use her powers to abort Sue's pregnancy before Carrie dies?

r5 I haven't read the novel. What is the creaking, and why does the house collapse?

R13, I think it's a very interesting scene. You see Tommy wanting out immediately but the manner in which Sue sticks to her guns is rather bizarre. But I agree with pronouncement her mom makes when she says "My Sue is a good girl" but while perhaps she didn't understand the totality of the setup, she was in on it.

R14, no. If I remember correctly, Sue miscarries after Carrie dies.

The sequel to the original movie was lousy. The ending of the first remake was interesting. Sissy Spacek did a phenomenal job as Carrie and Angela Bettis did a great job too. Chloe Grace Moretz was horribly miscast. She was way too pretty to be Carrie. I know pretty girls get bullied too but Carrie was not a pretty girl (at least not until she gets dolled up for the prom).

I think the house collapsing was written for the movie, r15. Carrie’s telekinesis brings it down out of the anguish of what she has done.

At least that’s always been my interpretation. And definitely no Captain Howdy involved!

Maybe Sue's goodness is also a way to showcase that goodness doesn't come from religion and, in fact, some of the most religious people like Carrie's mom are the worst and most evil people on this planet.

Sue's a great everyman/everywoman stand in, because we've all watched something that really upset us but did nothing to prevent it or make it better and have felt guilty about it. I think it's an understandable motivation.

I have always wondered what the real message of the story is. Of course, there's the element of "watch out who you make fun of, because they might get even with you when you push them too far", but Sue is so traumatized after doing the right thing and it literally ruins the rest of her life. The film ends on that great nightmare scene letting us know that she's fucked up for life simply because she dared to step out of line and correct a social injustice that bothered her. That's so tragic to me. All those good intentions only lead to death and heartache.

Snell is not in on the plot.

There is a scene where Buckley is yelling at the girls and telling them they'll get detention.

She asks Chris who's taking her to the prom. Chris boastfully says Billy Nolen.

She then says how about you Sue? Sue says Tommy Ross. Irving looks and sounds so guilty here and Buckley gets a flash of hurt and I always feel at that moment Buckley got thru to her about how lucky and privledged she is and how much Carrie has suffered.

In the book Tommy actually starts to fall in love with Carrie as they dance. He realizes how sweet she is.

I always thought Sue snuck into the prom just to see how things were going with Carrie and Tommy. In the movie, anyway.

The big plot hole really is that Chris comes up with her plan to humiliate Carrie at the prom before Tommy asks her, and before she agrees to go. Without Sue, there would have been no way Carrie would've gone to the prom. How could Chris have known to ask Billy for that favor at that point in the movie?

I never noticed that last part r22. I guess they got the chronology mixed uo.

I too believe that Sue goes to see how things are going at the prom. That scene where she is just about to pull the streamers away and expose Chris and Billy and Buckley pulls her away is so heartbreaking and well shot and acted. You can see Irving trying to explain to Buckley that Chris is under the stairs but Buckley won't listen and pulls her out.

[quote]R23 You can see Irving trying to explain to Buckley that Chris is under the stairs but Buckley won't listen and pulls her out.

Betty is having NONE OF IT!

The editing in that sequence is amazing. I also love Betty's "Whew! Disaster averted!" look right after she kicks Sue out, obviously not knowing what's ahead.

Right. Miss Collins thinks Sue must be up to no good. That whole sequence, leading up to the blood being poured, is brilliantly edited and scored.

I need to re-read Carrie, because I don't remember/never considered Sue being pregnant on prom night. I thought she was just late (which she comments on, how her periods were normally right on schedule). I figured Sue getting her period right after she encounter Carrie was just a bit of things coming full circle. Also, shout out to the commenter who mentioned that Sue's considered an outcast after it all. That, and the utter bleakness of "life" continuing on in Chamberlain after what happened (like the high school valedictorian losing it during his speech) sticks in my memory.

I saw the musical Carrie on Broadway. I recall there being a point in a song where Tommy was falling for Carrie, and Sue was concerned.

I always thought it was a bit much that Buckley’s character was so …desperate, frankly, to kick Snell out. It *almost* made it seem like Miss Collins was the one who was in on it. Of course I know she wasn’t at all, I just think the way that exact moment was written/directed/played was a bit off.

[quote] but while perhaps she didn't understand the totality of the setup, she was in on it.

Sue Snell definitely was not “in on it”—what part of the plot would she have been privy to and gone along with? What do you think she thought was going on?

The message is that teenagers can be as cruelly conservative as adults, and any deviation from the set social hierarchy will be punished. King explored similar themes in Christine.

If Sue had gone to prom with Tommy Ross, leaving Carrie to sit at home like the outcast she was expected to be, nobody would have died. After high school, Carrie would have ended up an obese shut-in living off her mother (Carrie herself imagines this future in the book).

the whole slow motion sequence before the blood drop is amazing (and just prior to that is a long scene with Norma collecting the ballots that is one continuous take)

Irving noticing the rope twitch and then following it up to the bucket and then down to Chris under the stairs, Buckley clapping happily and glancing to the side noticing Irving...yes it does seem a bit far fetched that Sue couldn't get the words "look Chris is under the stairs" out and Buckley hear it but no horror movie is perfect.

Poor suit gets impaled in the head with an arrow in the horrid sequel The Rage: Carrie 2

*Sue NOT suit

yeah r33 they totally dishonored the character in the sequel. It would have been better to have her be the sole survivor again.

I first saw that movie when I was 12 years old, in 1982, on television at my grandparents house. I was supposed to be watching my sister, as all the adults went out to dinner. My sister was in another room watching Webster or some shit.

Obviously, a 12 year old closeted gay boy in 1982 feels for Carrie. I don't think any movie since has impacted me the way Carrie did on that 13 inch SD TV. I was putty in the director's hands. I HATED the kids that teased Carrie so fucking much. I was in a blind rage at them. My heart was in my mouth during the slow motion segment- I was praying that Sue would tell Miss Collins, and Miss Collins would put a stop to it. But no. The blood poured, and I was mortified for Carrie. I started crying. Then, as she started making shit go haywire, I stood up and cheered.

And then the fucking hand shooting up from the grave scene. Goddamn. I sat there through the closing credits PARALYSED with fear. Unable to move.

For about 22 minutes of that movie, Brian De Palma just had me hypnotized, for lack of a better word. Whatever he wanted me the viewer to feel, I felt, and I can never forget that experience.

[quote]The message is that teenagers can be as cruelly conservative as adults, and any deviation from the set social hierarchy will be punished. King explored similar themes in Christine.

If Sue had gone to prom with Tommy Ross, leaving Carrie to sit at home like the outcast she was expected to be, nobody would have died. After high school, Carrie would have ended up an obese shut-in living off her mother (Carrie herself imagines this future in the book).

That's a good point - I forgot about that

The scene where Buckley kicks Sue out of the prom is brilliant, though you can't help but watch that today & think that any teacher that got that aggressive with a student (unless the student is a black male) is about to find herself without a job

[quote]Without Sue, there would have been no way Carrie would've gone to the prom.

R22 that was pointed out in the Moretz version. In the final scene when Carrie is holding her dead mother she screams at Sue: Why didn’t you leave us alone?

You coulda said no, Carrie!

The prom scene is so brilliant. No matter how many times you watch it, you hope that, somehow, Chris and Billy will be stopped this time. The moment Carrie goes from teenage dream in a pink gown to a blood-spattered horror is one of the most shocking visuals in cinema history.

While the novel is great and the story itself is terrific, I find it telling that the only adaptation that's ever been truly brilliant has been the De Palma version. It takes a few (rather smart) liberties with the story, but it's the only one of them that truly works and has you on the edge of your seat the entire time. As others have mentioned, the slow motion prom sequence is brilliant and should be studied over and over by anyone who's thinking of getting into film. You're so thrilled for Carrie when you see how how happy she is to get crowned as prom queen while you're praying that Sue will be able to stop Billy and Chris. So many emotions in 5 minutes of silent film. And that Pino Donaggio score is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

I had a similar experience watching it as a kid as R35. I couldn't take my eyes off the screen the entire time and found myself ripping through the TV Guide, hoping it would be playing again next week. Whenever it was on TV, I had to sit down and watch it from then on out. Eventually, my parents allowed me to buy the VHS because I was watching it so much.

Completely agreed about the prom scene; it's brilliant & it still holds up. But the scenes where Carrie imagines everyone laughing at her & the doors snap shut, it makes me think of school shooters who finally lash out only to kill a lot of innocent people caught in the crossfire

*lash out at their tormenters - real or perceived*

R36 well I did slap that bitch Chris across the face hard and got away with it contrary to what she said.

--Betty "CUNT" Buckley

Who was worse Mrs. White or Beamish?

R41, R42 -- yes, unfortunately reality makes Carrie even more haunting. BITD, the movie was apparently sold as "scary-funny." It's interesting how the ensemble of Carrie's classmates, through little to no changes in their actions-personalities, have gone from people we were okay to see get killed off to "Oh my God, they're kids!"

I'm still happy to see Chris and the cunt in the red hat offed by Carrie.

R22 A lot of Chris' scenes seem edited wrong. She and Billy hide the pigs blood before the scene where they are decorating the gym. Surely someone would have noticed it.

The novel is actually an epistolary novel, one written out of letters, newspaper clippings, police documents, ect. I always wanted a Carrie film to be done Mockumentry style to mirror that.

R48 I can't remember. Is it exclusively epistolary? Or are there times when it switches to third person narrative? I picked up Dracula a few months ago, and realized it was epistolary as well, but also has those third person scenes throughout the book.

Yes, a version of Carrie that's done as an episode of a fictional, well established in it's own world documentary TV series, like Investigative Reports on A&E with Bill Kurtis, could be good.

I think it switches to third person narrative occasionally

She's not in on it (she;s horrified by the truth of it when she spots tyhe pail above Carrie's head), but dePalma purposefully plays with you so you're not sure she's in on it until the very last minute. That's the point of the scene where sue and Tommy are snickering and exhcanging looks when they meet with the gym teacher--to put you off guard. De Palma wants you to participate in Carrie's paranoia so like her you think everyone is plotting against her, just as she believes after the blood drenches her.

[quote] That's the point of the scene where sue and Tommy are snickering and exchanging looks when they meet with the gym teacher--to put you off guard

Sue doesn't snicker. She's quite serious and determined in that scene to prove to Buckley she is trying to help. Only Tommy snickers because he's a dumb jock and Norma makes him laugh.

I actually liked the remake but Chloe Grace Moretz was much too pretty for the part.

They had to get that supermodel type to play Sue as a result. Ridiculous. But other than that I enjoyed it.

The only thing I like about the remake is that Chris gets a more satisfying end

I was n't put off guard by that scene, R51. I never once thought that Sue was involved.

Oh, do shut up Mrs. Snell at R7! Sue is young enough that, in time, she'll forget all about it!

I’ll drink to that!

r48, I hated the structure of the book when I read it in high school. The way it jumped around was distracting to me. I should read it again from a more mature (ie. OLD) perspective.

[quote]Yes, a version of Carrie that's done as an episode of a fictional, well established in it's own world documentary TV series, like Investigative Reports on A&E with Bill Kurtis, could be good.

It might be the only style of remake that would work. You can't beat DePalma for classic horror-thriller: The remakes have proven that. Best to go in a whole new direction.

"Well, Sue always a dizzy slut, so maybe you're right, R56" (takes another gulp of a highball) - Mrs. Snell

My Sue is a good girl!

Apparently, the remake with Chloe was shot to be a mix of regular narrative and courtroom/investigation stuff post-prom massacre, but not much of it remained in the movie after some bad test screenings and studio meddling. Of course, the TV movie tried something similar and it didn't quite work either.

What they should really do is pretend the entire thing is a 2 hour episode of a Netflix documentary and have the narrative parts played be reenactment actors. Make the entire thing seem like a documentary.

Carrie White eats SHIT

I'd say the book was about half epistolary, half third person narrative. What I liked was the variety of the epistolary portions. In addition to excerpts from a scholarly-type book written about the disaster, there's also excerpts from Sue's book, testimony before a commission (including from Sue), and magazine and print articles. For whatever reason, we also get the program from the prom, which adds some amusing camp value. They apparently only danced to a handful of songs even before Carrie's fury.

[quote]R64 there's also excerpts from Sue's book

Ah, yes. The immortal [italic]My Name is Sue Snell.

LOL r56.

I've thought that too. The mother says no I wouldn't let her go to the funerals what with Tommy and all the others gone. Then Dr whoever says she's young enough that in time she'll forget all about it!!! Forget it??? Your whole high school dies in a supernatural massacre that you had a hand in causing. Yeah that's forgettable.

I guess it does set up Irving's scream pretty well though. Irving's shear hysteria lets us know she'll never forget about this.

yes r54 that ending for Chris is so horrible the way her face is stuck in the glass.

The remake must have been a real disappointment. I don't think Julianne Moore did any press for the film. I found some interviews while they were filming it but nothing from the release where she is out selling it.

I think after Piper Laurie, Mrs. White is an impossible role for an actress to play. You either imitate it (poorly) and take another track and pale in comparison.

yes r68. True.

But from what I've seen online Betty Buckley was pretty spectacular in the musical no matter how bad it was.

Nobody else has come close. Interesting that they all tried different tactics. Patricia Clarkson was stoic, Julianne Moore morose and troubled, Marin Mazzie was directed to be a victim too (as the press for the off-Broadway show kept reiterating.)

Buckley's played her as fiercely dominating. That worked. And she sang amazingly.

Betty really does have a phenomenal voice.

Betty in And Eve was Weak

I've heard it said that if the whole show had been at this level it would have been a smash.

(btw that is Barbara Cook at the beginning from the London production and then it flips to show Betty)

It is Betty's voice throughout.

R61 made me laugh.

"And I think you're UNDERreacting, MRS. SNELL!"

I saw Carrie in a packed movie theater, opening weekend, in Seekonk, Massachusetts. As Sue Snell is slowly walking toward the makeshift grave with a bouquet of flowers, the theatre audience is completely silent.

THEN - the hand comes up: MASS HYSTERIA! Screams!! Popcorn and soda containers flying out of hands - up in the air - landing on other people's heads! I was accidentally showered with the diet coke belonging to the patron behind me.

Then everyone laughing out of embarrassment. It was possibly the greatest movie experience I ever had.

Carrie is the movie I would most love to see again for the first time!

Piper Laurie is so good in this. It’s like everything she does in it is perfectly composed.

The 2002 made-for-television movie- the one with Patricia Clarkson and Angela Bettis- I recall some of the publicity leading up to it said that this version was a completely different take from the 1976 feature film- that it would be closer to the book.

But when I watched it, I couldn't believe eyes (or ears.) Not only was a ton of dialogue (which wasn't in the book at all) lifted from the 1976 script for the movie, but there were certain scenes that were shot-for-shot remakes of scenes in the 1976 version! I'm not saying the entire thing, but a ton of it.

Later, I read it was supposed to be a pilot for a new series. Basically, this was a failed pilot they tried to pass off as a stand alone made-for-tv movie. But saying it's a "completely new take" and then lifting from the 1976 movie was really weird.

There were MORE scene in the 2002 version, but many of the ones that were already there used the 1976 script. And added in the internet.

I can remember seeing some kid's movie and they showed the trailer for Carrie. Us kids were terrified. I remember how I'd run home from the house next door after playing there on winter days and be terrified that a bloody Carrie would be in the bushes.

I think the MPAA eventually started rating trailers so they matched with the movie being shown.

The 2002 version also changes the plot into Carrie going into a stupor and not knowing what happens. I guess the series was supposed to be a Fugitive type thing with Carrie and Sue on the run trying to clear Carrie's name. (....and what then? She'd periodically have more spells and things would move around?)

R76 You might be somewhat mis-remembering, or misinterpreting. I remember the tv trailers. It was promoted as "a reimagining" of Carrie. (Nuance is everything).

The tv remake wasn't awful. What I remember most was they cast a light-skinned African-American as Sue Snell. The actress not only strongly resembled Amy Irving, but was, (if possible) even more strikingly beautiful.

R74 That would have had to be TAB. Diet Coke wasn't around yet.

Sorry, sorry, I'm a TAB apologist.

Carry on!

[quote] The 2002 made-for-television movie- the one with Patricia Clarkson and Angela Bettis- I recall some of the publicity leading up to it said that this version was a completely different take from the 1976 feature film- that it would be closer to the book.

[qoute]But when I watched it, I couldn't believe eyes (or ears.) Not only was a ton of dialogue (which wasn't in the book at all) lifted from the 1976 script for the movie, but there were certain scenes that were shot-for-shot remakes of scenes in the 1976 version! I'm not saying the entire thing, but a ton of it.

Same thing with the Chloe Grace Moretz version. I remember interviews with the director saying it was a new adaptation of the book and she didn’t like calling it a remake but when I finally saw the movie there was exact dialogue and scenes copied from the DePalma version.

R81 I believe the studio had massive fights with director Kimberly Pierce, and completely re-edited her cut of the movie. So she might not have been lying when the interview took place.

The 2013 film was heresy. On the same par with Exorcist II: The Heretic

Sue was not in on the prank. I think some of the people who claim this are misunderstanding King's statement that he didn't trust Sue's motives for sending Carrie to the prom.

What I think he means by this is the question: "Does Sue really want to help Carrie, or does she want to alleviate her own guilt?"

Also, this was his first published novel (though he'd been writing a lot prior to this), he may have felt that while he intended Sue to be doing good, he never felt completely satisfied with his writing portraying that.

This story and the de Palma movie are so fascinating, because I think they tap into something within a lot of us, that memory of being bullied and the cathartic nature of revenge in this safe format. No matter how many times I see that movie, I get so angry and then feel so elated as Carrie kills her classmates and teachers. Even my mother, I remember, years ago watching it, and she is very much a "turn the other cheek" person, but she nearly leapt up cheering when PJ Soles' character gets her neck broken. It just gets us, this story, deep inside.

Everyone loves Piper Laurie's performance... except me. It's too hammy, I have trouble watching her. She spoils to me what is otherwise an excellent movie... well, not spoils actually, because I still think it's excellent. But I will never understand why she is so praised. I've never really seen a performance from her that hasn't made me cringe somewhat.

Blasphemy r85!

I love a lot of the songs in the musical, basically the mother's songs, but was always disappointed in how they did the destruction of the prom. This L.A. production got it right. Love how they kill Chris.