Windows 11

I was totally satisfied with Windows 7

Is it a free upgrade?

I use a Mac, so I don't give a shit.

Microsoft sucks

only losers use microsoft products

r2

Most likely

r4

Said the man reading a newspaper

I think every Windows upgrade is just a scam to keep you buying the newer product every couple of years. And then they threaten you with "Windows 7 is no longer updating. You will be vulnerable to hackers."

r7

So don't update (still free)

It took three years for them to work the kinks out of Windows 10. Now it works fine, so of course they want to get rid of it. FUCK THEM!

New Start, Taskbar, Widgets, Tablet Improvements, Sounds

Horrible. I won’t even consider it unless Classic Shell works with it.

I like the way my Samsung devices can use apps on PC now. Windows 11 is supposed to be more compatible with Android. Microsoft seems to be pulling strings to have some devices compatible across platforms in the same way Apple do.

"There's a new Start menu, rounded corners, a new startup sound,"

Ooooh, a new startup sound - how exciting.

They are also planning on doing away with the Control Panel and putting utilities in one place in Settings. That would actually be an improvement. But I agree with the poster above, I will be very pissed if Classic Shell doesn't work with it. I don't think it's being actively developed anymore.

Classic Shell was replaced by Open Shell, which is still in development.

2025?

It looks much better than 10. Live tiles shouldn’t have lived this long. And my Surface is already compatible with my Samsung phone. I can get phone messages and open phone apps on my Surface. It’s a bit clunky, so hopefully Microsoft refines it.

Yawn.

More exciting I think than Windows 11, will be Microsoft Cloud based PC, which should begin this year. Apart from the privacy concerns, I would welcome not having to fork out every two years for expensive tablets and PCs when low powered inexpensive devices could run super fast Windows over the net.

[quote] More exciting I think than Windows 11, will be Microsoft Cloud based PC, which should begin this year.

Cool, more Fappening leaks!

Oh shit

I'm still running Windows 7 on a 10 year old Thinkpad with no issues. Windows 11 can suck a fat one.

I have a Google Pixel mobile, a Google Chromebook and 0 year old Macbook Pro (never with a single problem) laptops, and, for work, a laptop with Windows.

I hate Windows, it's so awkward and the logic of accessing this so roundabout, and every other day day it's spitting out messages so everything must stop (opaque countdown clocks planted over your screen) for another fucking update. With Google and Apple I get about one update a year that I even notice, because the others just happen - no stop signs, no asking for permission to do something it's going to do anyway, and no retarded logic in operations.

Windows is a disaster in all it's iterations it's still the same.

R23, your gross exaggerations are laughable.

Just go to bed.

T25: Just getting up, Windows apologist.

[quote]Windows 11 can suck a fat one.

Pics please.

I think the visuals of Windows 11 look nice. Hate the app tiles of W10.

I don't understand who thought it was a good idea in the first place to make a PC OS system look like Android on a smartphone. There's a reason to keep PC and smartphone separate. Different use requires a different interface.

Firefox updated last week and now the tabs are rounded by default. I assume you can change them. Second, the widget example the site shows popped up on my taskbar last week after an update. As long as I can place my taskbar icons to the left I an okay with that. The desktop and menu look pretty much the same to me.

Tiles? Did Win 10 have tiles on the desktop? It’s been so long that I forget. I did a lot of reconfiguring to get it set up how I like it.

This crap again? Do they ever get it right? I can’t understand why such a huge company can keep shitting out crap for decades.

XP was the best.

Apple sucks in its Apple only crap-ware. Hate it.

Windows is OK, it does what it does and interfaces with everything.

"XP was the best"

Windows 7 still functions perfectly well on my old PC. Ever since I blocked any access to my PC by Microsoft, added a good virus protection I've had zero issues

Apple's new OS is coming out soon too. "Monterey" I believe it is called.

[quote]Firefox updated last week and now the tabs are rounded by default.

You can see "rounded" on your new Firefox tabs? Mine are all so white, I can't see any distinction between them, nor any rounded edges. Everything is so white, when I google, I keep trying to type in the tab of the window I'm using, instead of the Google box.

It's one of the worst designs of anything I've ever seen.

^ When your highlight the Firefox tabs they are rounded, they're also hard to see when not highlighted, but I'm getting used to it

No, R4. Just ... no.

Yes! r37 Just yes.

R33, the current Windows 10 is so vastly superior to Windows 7, I can't imagine what luddites like you are even thinking. I tried going back to Windows 7 once, and it was like trying to use a computer made of stone knives and bear skins while wearing mittens. Slow, inefficient, insecure, and utterly lacking.

It was great for its time, but its time is long, LONG past.

R11 = stuck-in-the-past luddite who fears any change, no matter how much better

R7 is a moron. Windows 10 was a free upgrade, and every update to Windows 10 is free, and Windows 10 and all updates actually run better on the same hardware than previous versions. Such ignorance and irrational hate.

r36 I just don't know how anyone could have approved this design. It's like they stopped working on it halfway through and said, "Fuck it. Let them use another browser if they don't like it."

r39, I liked Windows 7 more than anything that came before it, but I like Windows 10 as well. TTYTT, at this point, I don't remember any distinctions between the two.

Is this going to be another free OTA upgrade like Windows 10?

@r39, much to your dismay I'm not going to toss a perfectly good desktop with a perfectly good operating system because you think I'm a Luddite. I have a Windows 10 laptop, an ipad and an Android smartphone. I am down with all the kids today and their newfangled gadgets /s

You need to get laid, it will do you a world of good

I have no issue with the new tabs on Firefox. Maybe because I use a soft colored theme (which was already activated before the update) that shows the tab bar clearly. To be honest, the only big change I saw in Firefox was the start page only showing the site's logos and a slightly different menu and bookmark section.

r45, where do I need to go to change my theme, Windows 10 or Firefox?

r46, At Firefox, check Extras menu for add-ons and themes.

Why the fuck do you think you'd have to 'toss' a laptop, dumbass at R44? If it runs Windows 7, it can run Windows 10. There's really no good reason to stay on Windows 7. It's out of service, and insecure. If you NEVER EVER connect it to the internet, then it may not be worth the time/effort, but still. The ability to be consistent with your other Windows 10 laptop, and easily share between them, etc, would generally be worth it. You can still get a free upgrade if you look hard enough.

My HP printer/scanner was rendered useless after the last Windows 10 update. Pisses me off!!

Did I miss it somewhere in the article or does anyone know when W11 will be available? October is supposed to be the next big Windows update. I wonder if that's the release date.

So far I like what I see. I always love a new Windows version. Change is good for the soul.

June 24th R50.

@r48, Microsoft tried to ram Windows 10 down the throat of my Windows 7 desktop, it didn't take and I had a hell of a time removing the remnants of Windows 10 to get my desktop back in working order. I also have a few programs I use that don't seem to work very well with 10...

Oh, the hell with it, go find yourself some dick and quit worrying about my computer

They must have found some new methods to collect and then monetize your data.

So much for MS insistence on having Windows 10 forever.

[quote] June 24th [R50].

I may be wrong, but the way I read that part is that June 24th is the day they're going to make the announcement about the new version, not the date it's going to be released.

I don't think you can upgrade to 10 from 7 for free any more.

I recently tried to upgrade a friend's computer from 7 to 10 and I followed all the recommendations online and it got hung up for a day without working.

The windows for free Windows 10 upgrades has been over for a long time.

I only switched from Apple back to Microsoft (Surface) because Apple was getting really bloody expensive, and started getting rid of ports you’d normally want. It’s also lost the stability it once had, or at least seems to have. I find my new iPad Air can be a nightmare at times with apps shutting down mid-use and shit like that. I’ve gotten 3 worry free years out of my Surface, touch wood, and am not inclined to go back to a MacBook anytime soon.

Honestly it looks more refined and sleeker than Windows 10, which in the corporate world, was foisted on a lot of us. I'm looking forward to it.

Ooh, curved corners on windows. How very Windows XP!

[quote] June 24th is the day they're going to make the announcement about the new version

Don't you mean June TwentyFourteenth.?

[quote] only losers use microsoft products

[quote] I hate Windows

It's kinda fascinating, kinda scary too, how emotional some posters here are about an operating system, a piece of codes. I still vividly remember those silly arguments people had about everything Apple vs. all other tech ten years ago. You don't like Windows? Fine. Go with Linux, Android or MacOS. They all have their merits. But why being so emotional about it?

Because some people be crazy.

So glad I've been with Mac since 1992. I was using small Motorola and IBM terminals and pc's for 12--13 yrs before that, and had to go back to IBM in the Soc dept at university, but they hardly do anything interesting. Including working, from time to time. Never had any problems with Mac or MacOS or the iphone. Not interested.

ugh.

R51, no, the announcement is next week. There is no "release date".

There will be a normal fall update for existing Windows 10.

At some point they'll release Windows 11. You'll be able to choose when you upgrade. You won't be forced to upgrade for years.

[quote]I don't think you can upgrade to 10 from 7 for free any more.

Oh, there are still ways, if you make the effort to look for them.

Windows 10 has multiple virtual desktops, universal dictation, emoji/kamoji/symbols panel, pen & inking support, more window snapping options, full touch support, easy universal search, integrated cloud backups, easy phone integration, built-in and integrated Linux environment (choose your distro and go!), sandbox for testing unknown software, much better command line/terminal UI (choose your shell: cmd, powershell, bash, csh, etc), integrated screen shotting (full, window, region) and screen video recording, VASTLY improved security and integrated protection from trojans, viruses, and ransomeware, fast boot/instant-on, windows Hello biometric logins (finger print, facial recognition, and more), notifications and action center, improved start menu, more compatible with more apps, xbox gaming support and 'game bar', a ton more efficient and useful hot-keys, much faster easier-to-control updates....

And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head for all the reasons Windows 10 is better than Windows 7.

If you're having daily problems with Windows 10, the problem is you.

I dont like when Windows 10 is downloading a massive update in the background. It slows the performance of my laptop, and then a day later it will ask me to restart when Im busy working on something. Fuck you Windows.

R70, I'm just going to roll my eyes at you and think you're a whiner, because you have complete control over all of that.

You can set Windows to notify you when updates are available.

You can schedule when an update happens (day and time)

You can block all updates for up to a month

You can set "Active Hours" so updates never happen during those times

This is all really straight forward and easy to find and figure out.

Also, for "Big" updates (the kind that can take an hour or so instead of mere minutes), Windows 10 prints a notice that it's available, and doesn't begin to even download it until you opt in and click the install button. You can just leave it there for months if you're not up to applying the update because you're really busy doing something else.

So yeah, your whining is all because you're apparently utterly incapable of looking at the Settings and turning on or off the various things you want to change. Seesh.

Oh yeah, and by default, even if you don't explicitly set your active hours, windows 10 "learns" when you use your PC over time, so it never applies updates during those times.

Those fucking cunt! They sell out to apple interdace. You know what was fucking perfect? Windows 7. All they had to do is keep a good thing going, but noooooooo, it has to be shitter and shittier "upgrade". Seriously, think Bill, think!

@r68, "And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head for all the reasons Windows 10 is better than Windows 7. "

Since it's so great why will it be obsolete in a week? Will you be back to tell us the same BS about Windows 11?

R74, do you not understand how upgrades work?

Windows 11 is going to have all those things, plus more things... things like new window snapping features, more fluid/performant UI, the ability to center taskbar icons (they can be returned to left-aligned if you like), and more features that haven't been announced yet. It's mostly a visual overhaul to keep Windows looking fresh and modern, but will definitely be adding even more features and conveniences.

So I have to ask, WTF is your problem here? How do you not get/understand such basic things?

Also, nothing said about the features and enhancements Windows 10 has over Windows 7 was "BS". Why do you think that?

I never use Windows update to do the big updates. I have 5 64 bit Windows 10 units so when I see a big update is ready I stop all updates temporarily and go to the Windows Update Catalog (see the link), find the proper version for my computers (each update will have a number beginning with kb) and download one time and then update each computer on my own when I want to. If I want I can update all 5 units at the same time and now worry about everything slowing down from all the massive downloading going on.

Why on earth do you go through all that effort, when you can just leave your PC on over-night and let it update itself through Windows Update? Sounds to me like you're making more pain for yourself.

@r75, your condescending attitude sucks, it disqualifies any points you try to make about Windows 7, 8, 10 or 11. When you don't have answers always try and make the other guy look stupid. You're the stupid one here who only thinks new is always better. You're wrong and you should feel bad

Now, take my advice and quit worrying about Windows and find yourself a nice dick to suck. I guarantee my advice is way better then yours

I'm curious but also trying to keep my expectations in check.

^ About Windows 11 or sucking dick?

Both R80.

Quit yer bitchin' it is free!

Not so the dick...

^ I've never paid for dick, have you?

Every other Windows is a disaster.

98 - Good Millennial Edition - Disaster XP - Good Vista - Disaster 7 - Good 8 - Such a disaster they skipped 9. 10 - Good

So we’re due for a disaster.

Tik Tok iterations are only in the mind of humans who are programmed to look for patterns.

You will succumb.

In time you will come to love me.

I'm not sure anyone would agree that Vista, Millennium and Windows 8 weren't disasters, R84.

That’s true, R84. Every second Microsoft release seems to be a disaster. They refine it and release a new version that excludes or minimizes their “big” changes, or that fully bakes them into something useable. Like the live tiles in 8 were predominant and was supposed to give you the feeling of a tablet or smart phone, and they kept that in 10, but kinda put it off to the side because people actually hated it.

r84 gets it. Some of you youngins may pick on us elderGays, but we've been around Windows a long time and are smart enough not to jump at the latest and greatest from MS. I'll wait a year and see how Windows 11 pans out, then I'll decide if an upgrade is worth it. I've done my share of beta testing for MS. You guys go ahead

[quote]your condescending attitude sucks, it disqualifies any points you try to make about Windows 7, 8, 10 or 11. When you don't have answers always try and make the other guy look stupid. You're the stupid one here who only thinks new is always better. You're wrong and you should feel bad

R78, my condescension was rightfully earned. And my attitude certainly doesn't disqualify the actual facts and points I made. I had answers and gave them. The other guy made himself look stupid, no effort required on my point. I'm not wrong, and I don't feel bad.

Check your own level of condescension in your replies, hypocrite.

Windows 11 is nothing like Vista or Windows 8.

Vista was a massive over-haul over XP, and hardware at the time was NOT up to the task. It also suffered massive development issues, with entire plans scrapped and restarted halfway through development. Once hardware caught up to Vista, it actually wasn't that bad, but the rollout was kind of a disaster because it required all new drivers, and really burdened older hardware so it didn't perform well.

Windows 8 was a complete misstep by management. Original there was going to be a tablet version and a desktop version, and someone decided to mash them together, and it was a HUGE change with the UI that was NOT intuitive. Windows 8.1 was actually pretty decent as it made a lot of the changes optional, restored the start button, but it was still a huge change.

Windows 11 is just a refreshed coat of paint, and a few minor changes (most of which can be reverted to older behavior). A few tweaks and changes to make it look more modern. And it will continue to be updated like Windows 10 is, twice a year, etc. It's not a fundamental change, it's not anything that is going to stress current or even older hardware, it's not a major change to the driver model.

Windows 10 now is very different than Windows 10 when it was first released five years ago. Dark mode was added, Light mode was added, and other cosmetic changes, along with big enhancements like the ability to run Linux within Windows. Windows 11 is just a bigger change to look and feel to make it more modern, more performant, easier to use, etc. And if there's something you hate (like you hate the new centered task bar) you can always go to Settings and move it back to the left.

[quote] Windows 11 is just a refreshed coat of paint

Given the PR they are doing for next week's event, I am wondering if there is more to it. I have a feeling we are going to hear more about Windows in the cloud / Windows as a service. But also given the absence of any public testing, I am really curious how this could be more than just a coat of fresh paint. Maybe it's just going to be the announcement of a road map?

People benchmarking the leaked Windows 11 build (unfinished and old) against Windows 10 on the exact same hardware are showing:

Windows 11 Pro.1 booted 18.75% faster than Windows 10 Pro

Using the 3DMark benchmark suite, Windows 11 has a 9.74% better 3DMark score and 2.05% better clock speed than Windows 10

Using CrystalDiskMark, they measured a 15.03% faster read speed and 4.41% faster write speed on Windows 11 compared to Windows 10

Using GeekBench, they measured a 9.04% better single-core performance and 15.59% better multi-core performance on Windows 11, compared to windows 10

So it's shaping up to be faster, as well as just prettier.

It will also have baked in support for new standards, including USB 4 and 5G and more. It should also be more battery efficient, extending battery life on existing PCs over Windows 10.

You do realize "Windows in the Cloud" is nothing new, right? It's been tried many times. It fails because you still have to have a computing device in your hands (or on your desktop) to connect to the cloud, and the cost of having your own powerful local device keeps getting cheaper so there's not much advantage to the remote PC.

Except remote PCs are becoming more and more used all the time. Pre-configured, software pre-installed, easy to "reset", managed and updated by someone else... for certain kinds of workers (it's not really for consumers), it can actually be quite cost effective. The local device can be really inexpensive, while the remote VM has tons of CPU and disk space and memory, etc.

Dear Microsoft and Google: Fuck computers, tablets, laptops, and phones. I'm still anxiously waiting for my implanted microchip. Hop to it, dammit!

@r89, you have proven over and over that you have zero credibility and appear to know little about MS products. Taking your advice about anything computer related would be a fools game. You have convinced me that Windows 11 is not to be trusted until it's been on the market awhile and proven it's worth

Good job, homeslice, your shilling for MS is a complete FAIL

I'm an eldergay and I'm always excited when Microsoft releases an updated OS. I still love learning and exploring new things.

R77 it's really not much trouble at all. It only takes 2 key clicks on each computer, I walk away and the update is installed. Also, updates through the normal windows update have a higher failure rate. Plus I'm not waisting a huge amount of bandwidth to download the same 500-700 gb software package 5 times.

"I'm an eldergay and I'm always excited when Microsoft releases an updated OS. I still love learning and exploring new things. "

Me too, but after being burned by MS a few times I've decided that a slower approach to accepting new operating systems might be a safer way to go

47 year old Lesbian here. I've been fortunate enough to quite literally have and use a computer since the gist of the advent of personal computers. Back in 1984 was when I first sat down at what was then called an Apple Macintosh. Some of y'all might remember the commercial. I therefore have no fear with technology and do so try and stay current but I don't yet do the Smart TV thing.

I've never stayed exclusively loyal to Mac's throughout the years for financial reasons. Why lie? My cellphone is from Wal-Mart (my eyes are shot so why bother) and my desktop is on Windows 10. Whatever.

Windows 10 gets on my nerves sometimes. Their updates killed a laptop I had. Killed. WiFi did so pass on. I worked the registry. Updated drivers. Almost called a Priest to administer the last rights to the thing. This was about a year and a half ago. You name it and I bet you a chance at my one Bear of a younger brother (he's slutty safely, truth be told) that I did it.

Windows has tried to evolve and grow. They try. Sometimes they suck though.

R31 I adored Windows XP! I had a netbook on XP ages ago and would just toy around with the thing as though it were a cheap trick. It was a very user friendly operating system one could learn from in terms of certain software applications as well as the most inner workings of Windows.

I haven't stock in either Microsoft or Apple so there is only so much of a fuck I give deep down but we all work with either one or the other or stay versatile (naughty sounding that is) so 'ya might as well stay learning.

Today's OS updates are more about increasing profits via cross-collaboration and info-sharing with other tech companies than with improving user experience and satisfaction. Whatever tweaks help to mine your personal information to turn it into profit is what matters most to all tech companies. It's the depressing truth, but that's the age in which we live.

Like big tech companies, Microsoft is adept at planned obsolescence; whether you need an update or not, you WILL get it, sooner or later.

I like that Windows DOWNLOADS updates to my PC but lets me decide when to INSTALL.

Easy peasy.

Windows 11 isn't a "New OS", it's just new branding.

R95, the technology is actually known as thin client computing, and it's been around since the late 1980's. As you say, it's fine for some applications. It's fine for office tasks, but for entertainment and gaming, it sucks. Many have tried, and failed.

[quote] "There's a new Start menu, rounded corners, a new startup sound,"

It sounds like Microsoft has run out of ideas, so now they're changing things just for the sake of changing things.

"How can we make Windows 11 different?" "I know. Let's center the icons on the taskbar." "Why should we do that? What purpose will that serve?" "I don't know. It's just something different."

The only thing I don't like about it at this point is the new start up sound. To me it's way too slow and long. When I listened to it I was initially thinking the sound file wasn't working and then it started. It's just a big blah IMO.

[quote] Windows 11 isn't a "New OS", it's just new branding.

It is a new OS. It may be quite similar to the old OS, but it will replace Windows 10 completely which can eventually be deleted from your system. So IMO that makes it a new OS.

^ "... Meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."

This thread is giving me deja vu. I swear we had a very similar thread before Windows 10 came out, complete with the guy telling us how much of an improvement over the previous iteration it would be.

^ Exactly, that same asshole was calling everyone who didn't want to upgrade to Windows 10 stupid. I knew it was him, he's a shill for MS

The tablet experience had received some big enhancements. Live tiles are still able to be activated, at least in the leaked version of 11.

You're not a shill if you merely like a product. Jeez... you're not allowed to like a product anymore?

And if you don't upgrade your operating system you are, well, a little bit stupid. Sure, there is no immediate need, and you may not need all benefits that a new OS brings. But at some point you will run into compatibility, possibly security issues, especially if you use the computer for work or within an enterprise.

Demo of tablet mode at 7:10

[quote]Microsoft tried to ram Windows 10 down the throat of my Windows 7 desktop

Pics please.

R7 Who the fuck pays for Windows?

If they really want to improve tablet mode, the should improve the on-screen keyboard experience. I don't understand how Microsoft has one of the best, if not the best, Android keyboard, but cannot emulate the same for a Windows tablet. Swiftkey has this nice swipe concept for Android but not for Windows.

... and there he is r112 coming back to tell everyone how stupid they are for not jumping on the latest crap from MS. Fuck off, shill, we see you

" Microsoft tried to ram Windows 10 down the throat of my Windows 7 desktop

Pics please."

My desktop after Windows 10 attempted download

R117, you do realize my post says that there is no immediate need to update right away, right?

Just being curious: What is a shill exactly? Don't shills benefit from the endorsement they make? You actually think I get some sort of kickback from Microsoft for engaging with posters here on DL? And in this thread, what is the acceptable approach for not being considered a shill and still liking Windows?

^ Keep digging, son, we'll believe you, honest

@r120, you're an insulting, condescending asshole. Read the room not too many here are buying what you're selling

I am positive our condescending friend here is the guy who has meltdowns on all the Windows threads. When Windows 7 was updating to Windows 10 and people were having trouble with their PCs, he was screaming at everyone about how stupid they were and how Microsoft never did anything wrong. It ruined pretty much every thread we had about Windows.

^ Yes, it's him he's been around for years. Incels live for their computers and try to make others look stupid

Is Incels the new Nazis?

^ No

I just realized that a thread is so hard to follow when you block posters. There are gaps now where I cannot always tell what's missing. After r120 alone I seem to be missing three posts.

This site says that Windows 11 will indeed be launched on June 24.

I am a huge Microsoft fan, but this is where they piss me off. They seem to just throw shit out there now. It is bad enough with the updates, but they never figure out how it affects other programs that they themselves have running with it, and other programs that are add ons.

EVERY update causes some issues with Adobe programs and AutoCAD or the graphics driver. Not big things, but little insane things that cause the programs to glitch, or lose some capability. It is infuriating. Adobe and AutoDesk have issues normally with their own shit, but add on a huge update like the latest Windows 10 and it is nuts that they can't get a handle on it. Just in the last big Windows 10 update, it caused issues with my pen on my Surface Studio, problems with Excel for my Office 365, and Outlook glitched for two days.

R104, there's a huge push now for cloud gaming... gaming anywhere.

Xbox Cloud and game streaming is just now rolling out. It's not great for First Person Shooter games (the latency is a bit too high still), but it's great for other kinds of games. You can play them on a phone or tablet, instead of a heavy duty gaming PC or Console. And in particular, you'll be able to play Xbox Series S|X games on older Xbox One hardware soon, extending the life of the old consoles. Or stream an xbox game to your tablet to play in the other room if other families want to use the big TV for watching Netflix or something.

Again, it's not for every game, or everyone, but it's more options.

R105 is the type of person that deliberately misrepresents things they don't fully understand just to seem smug and cynical and "cool", and it's just really pathetic.

[quote]It is a new OS. It may be quite similar to the old OS, but it will replace Windows 10 completely which can eventually be deleted from your system. So IMO that makes it a new OS.

No, R107. It's no more a "New OS" than the twice-annual updates that have rolled out for Windows 10 every year for the last four or five years.

It's no more a "New OS" than all those annual updates to OS X were on Macs.

It's an updated version. It's got a tweaked UI. The "new look" is more noticeable so after 5 years they decided to give it new branding. But it's Windows 10 underneath, as a look at the actual core underlying version number will show you.

Unfortunately, it’s STILL Microsoft and I wouldn’t go near their shit.

I’m sick to death of Apple and would consider ditching my Macs for another OS, But anything Microsoft is maddening and dysfunctional is an absolute pain in the fucking ass.

Are they going to fix that thing where you randomly turn off or turn on your computer only to be met by an hour-long update process?

R122 kinda needs to look in the mirror.

And correcting misinformation and providing actual information does not a 'shill' make. Why are you so emotionally invested on hating Windows, I wonder?

R133, you need to update your prejudices. Maybe in a year or two, give Windows 11 a try. Windows is a lot, LOT less "dysfunctional" than it used to be. Windows 10 is actually pretty good. After Windows 11 has been out a year or so and the wrinkles have been ironed out, I'm sure it'll be even better.

No, R128, it will be ANNOUNCED. It will not be "launched". It will be launched AT THE EARLIEST next October. There is no set date for a launch, and for all we know, it might be next year.

^ I see our resident Windows asshole is back pushing his lack of knowledge and trying to brow-beat everyone into accepting MS Crap 2.0. Fuck off, shill

R137 has some real issues. Like, need-to-see-a-shrink-about-them issues.

^ Incel-needs-to-get-fucked-but-is-unfuckable-so-he-cums-on-Windows-10-11-and-beyond

Yeah, putting R139's irrational frothing-at-the-mouth rage on ignore now. Jesus.

I can't imagine using MS. No. Never.

I'm sticking with my 1953 ENIAC and my own code, thank YOU.

@r139 This you?...

^ Oops, ^ r138 ^

^ r134 and r135 as well ^

Yep, that's him every time he hears, "Windows"

@r143, Yeah, thanks for clarifying that

Looks like Mac OS.

R147, it actually looks a lot more like ChromeOS.

They had a project called "Windows 10 X" that was going to be for low-end PCs to compete against Chromebooks. They recently canceled this. And now they're porting much of that same "more modern" UI over to Windows 10 and calling it Windows 11.

And I was just getting used to Windows 95.

r129, have you ever noticed that when you get a glitchy update, for your computer, that a few days later you get another unannounced download that takes care of the problem? I love how MS takes responsibility for my PC's health. Last update, my file explorer went bonkers. I kept on triggering the error and every time it sent a message to MS. A few days later, small update and all is well. With the universe of third party software, MS cannot Beta every program. But when they find a problem, it gets fixed.

They roll out updates more slowly now anyway. They offer it only to hardware configurations they've thoroughly tested. If you have incompatibilities in software or drivers, the update isn't even offered to install. From the time a new version is released to the time it's "released and available for everyone" can be many months. So as time goes on, there's fewer and fewer issues.

And application developers have to take some of the blame... bugs and incompatible code on their part is not Windows' fault. If they use unsupported APIs that change or get removed, that's really on them. But Windows is shockingly good at backwards compatibility, given the thousands of apps and millions of hardware configurations. There are DOS programs and Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 programs that still run fine on Windows 10. Microsoft jumps through hoops to keep as much backwards compatibility as is feasable.

Microsoft needs to hire a few hundred product testers before they release ANYTHING.

I know it's the kool kids thing to bash Microsoft, but that Windows runs as well as on thousands of different hardware configurations in the wild across decades, it does is really is a bit of a miracle. Consider that vs Apple, which only has to bother with a handful of different hardware configurations that it controls completely.

R36 & R42 See the link below for how to make the interface of Firefox version 89 revert to that of version 88.

From what I’ve read, Win 11 is not a big upgrade from Win 10. In fact, up until about a week ago, it was known as Windows 10 Big Sur Edition. That said, when I went from Win 10 version 1909 to Win 10 version 20H2 it caused major problems and I had to have Win 10 revert to 1909 within the 10 days you can do that after an update. Subsequently, I turned off all automatic Win updates with the Windows Group Policy Editor. I'll do them manually from the Windows Update Library when I feel it necessary.

Microsoft said a few years ago that Win 10 was the final edition and would become a subscription service to get updates. So much for that. The link below is a good resource to keep up with what’s going on with Windows.

R154 Sorry, a better reference is below.

[quote] Microsoft needs to hire a few hundred product testers before they release ANYTHING.

Trust me, their software updates are well tested before they're released. The problems people have with the vast majority of updates are primarily of their own causing. They've paid little to no attention to keeping their computers in good operating condition. Everyone should run a system scan for corrupt system files once a month. Right click the start button and choose [command prompt (Admin)] and when the DOS prompt appears type in "sfc /scannow" (without the quotes & make sure there is a blank space between the c and the /) and press enter. It takes the system 30 minutes or so to do a total system scan and repair any corrupt system files it finds. The number of long term Windows users who don't even know they have that function on their system is shocking.

^ Oh, sure, blame the customer. That's so MS. Does MS clearly state that an "sfc /scannow" is highly recommended before installing updates?

@r154, Thanks for that, very helpful

[quote] Does MS clearly state that an "sfc /scannow" is highly recommended before installing updates?

No, because you shouldn't do it before installing every update. As I said, do it once a month to make sure your system files are not corrupt.

If people would stop installing pirated software, and stop visiting sketchy websites, there'd be a lot less corruption on systems. It's shocking the number of people who will go into their system files and delete things they think they don't need without making sure they're okay to delete or uninstall.

^ Well, ok then ;-)

Tools in a box for me. The poster who points out the huge effort by MS and other vendors to make the HCL (Hardware Compatibility LIst) work is considerable in and of itself. Apple would never be able to support an environment where you have the flexibility of choosing your components from multiple vendors. They don't call those clones "hackintoshes" for nothing. Your various iterations of Linux/unix maintain their own HCLs. There are obviously pros and cons of each path. For the Queen who couldn't dream of moving off her Win7 box, I get it. You had some problem with windows 10 that has impacted your psyche to levels documented only in the latest DSM. I can understand you being gun-shy and all, but it was a vastly improved deployment before the free upgrade went away. (BTW, it never did). You say your down with the kids, but you aren't. Companies today have a greater expectation of savvy from the end user for the simple reason that users like you are getting fewer and further between. Doesn't mean your a bad person. Just a bit long in the tooth.

Yes, I remember the initial releases of 10 and the various sundry problems associated with it. But I grew to like it. If you have any experience signing for or deploying thousands of desktop PCs in a cycle, one thing is certain. you won't get yelled at by upper management for buying MS products. You will probably get yelled at because you decided to go with Ubuntu because it "can" work. Are they still doing that outrageous pricing for SQL Server by CPU? I had one manager that I replaced stick it to his then current employer by putting a developers license into a production environment. I sweated that for about a year and then did a complete infrastructure upgrade with proper licensing. I contracted that out because I only had 5 bodies available at the time and I didn't want any of us touching the offensive SQL server install.

Interesting thing about that place was how everybody in art were big MAC enthusiast. I'm fine with Cupertino. I used to work for a company out of Sunnyvale (Its in silicone valley). At the time, we were the biggest VAR for Apple because we moved a lot of their product through the government marketplace, especially education. They would sponsor our employee events like golf tournaments, dinners and excursions just like HP, IBM and DELL did. Anyway, we got a new creative director and she said NOPE! I would prefer a decked out PC, thank you very much. It ran circles around those poor powerbooks running the adobe suite or cloud or whatever and that is where they did most of their work. When she left, that box went to a new junior member of the department who started running circles around her colleagues. If you are in a Mac environment, you should remember how much better their crap ran when they started using Intel chips.

I have always enjoyed the tech discussions on DL. Lots of experienced people in here. I actually ran an environment many years ago comprised of Win 3.12 clients and they had the TCP/IP stack running on them. THAT was a pretty long boot before you even got to the GUI. I laugh at people who complain about long boots. Especially when they haven't even bothered to upgrade to an SSD.

How I feel about the UI of Windows 11.

I feel like Windows 10 is the first time since 95 or XP that Microsoft got it right. I’ve had issues updating, because my “system-reserved partition” is broken from attempting to Hackintosh sometime in the mid-2010s. I was a Mac user for eight years solid, when it was definitely leaps and bounds beyond the PC experience: the PC today is the Mac ten years ago. Now the Macs feel outdated, outside of the new M1 line. They’re trying to modernize them, but they’re all basically iPads with different form factors.

Windows 11 has to be as good. They can’t fuck it up. They’re betting on soooo much market share. Also, I like the Win10 start menu much better. The new one seems clunky and probably difficult to use. I search for files a lot, so Windows 10 has the best search feature I’ve used on any computer. Makes Spotlight on Mac look like a children’s toy.

I am actually surprised how many people here claim that their Win 10 PC crashes a lot. I have three Win 10 PCs. One of them crashed right after I had bought it used from a small business. Did a refresh and it works like new since then. Never had a problem since then.

Some of my colleagues at work sometimes complain that their PC misbehaves and that they need to restart the computer. That is still not a blue-screen-of death scenario though. I attribute their problems to never restarting their computer. For weeks they let their computer go to sleep mode over night, but never shut down or restart as our IT recommends.

Window 95-98 were their best operating systems....they went downhill with Millennium. After that came out, I bought a Mac and never looked back.

What I like about MacOS - it's cheap. I think you can buy the latest update to macos for 20 dollars if you are not getting it for free.

[quote]Microsoft said a few years ago that Win 10 was the final edition and would become a subscription service to get updates. So much for that

Actually Microsoft said no such thing. There is no such official statement. The ONE statement everyone is quoting as if it was some LAW was an off-the-cuff remark from an engineer (not official spokesperson) meant solely to drive home the "Software as a service" aspect of Windows 10... instead of massive monolithic paid upgrades every 3 years or so, Windows 10 would be updated multiple times a year, basically "continuously", for free.

So please stop parroting that line. I know a lot of people are parroting it, but it's ridiculous and meaningless.

R167, Windows 10 is free. Has been. Anyone with Windows 7 or 8 at the time it was released could upgrade for free, and all Windows 10 updates since then have been free, and the update to Windows 11 will be free. So that's just a weird criteria to say you prefer Mac OS.... just sayin'.

R166, your prejudices are more than 20 years out of date, and if you never looked back, how can you possibly say those OSs were the best? XP was great, Windows 7 was great, and Windows 10 is great. And Windows 10 can do tons of things that MacOS simply can't, and doesn't even try to.

W11 will indeed be released on June 24th (or thereabout) but only to those who've signed up for the Windows insider program. They're the millions of testers Microsoft uses the world over to test out their software prior to release to the general public. Most anyone can sign up to be a Windows insider but you've got to be willing to install unproven, buggy software on a computer, run it and tell Microsoft every thing you find wrong with it.

I wish tech press would stop referring to these sanctioned releases as "leaks". It's just marketing.

Samsung is especially egregious about it.

R165, my PC at work only ever reboots/restarts to apply updates, which is maybe once a month. It's on 100 of the time, and never experiences issues or crashes.

R171 you don't even have to tell them, they monitor your system and send information back to their servers about what's working and what isn't working.

[quote]W11 will indeed be released on June 24th (or thereabout) but only to those who've signed up for the Windows insider program.

That's not a release, that's a "beta" program. It will be incomplete. They will update and complete it over the next three or so months, and then finalize it for an actual release in October. At least that's the current guess. For all we know, it won't release until next Spring. That all remains to be seen.

And R172, this wasn't a "sanctioned release", it was a leak, and MS is really annoyed by it (they've issued DCMA take-down orders for the leaked ISOs), because it stole their thunder from the announcement this week, with an outdated/old release that isn't as polished as what they wanted to lead with.

R175 all part of the illusion.

A lot of Windows 10 users don't even know that they can enter emojis anywhere by simply hitting Windows + .

That brings up the Emoji/Kamoji panel, along with special symbols. Every update has improved it as well, since its introduction years ago.

Most Windows 10 years also don't seem to know that Windows + Shift + S will allow them to do screen snips at any time, anywhere.

And Windows + V will bring up the clipboard history and let you past anything you've copied/cut since the last reboot (and you can 'pin' things in the clipboard history so that they persist across reboots as well).

It's funny how almost no one uses the Windows key. I think Microsoft should make an effort to educate people with their next release.

Windows + Left-Arrow to snap the current window to the left half of the screen

Windows + Right-Arrow to snap the current window to the right half of the screen

Windows + Up-Arrow to maximize the current window

Windows + Down-Arrow to minimize the current window

This sounds mostly cosmetic.

Windows: Smurf edition

@r180, Windows is always been a cosmetic cover for DOS

*has ^

R182 I don't think that has been the case since Windows 7 when they see switched to use Windows NT as the foundation (which was built from the ground up) and not MS-DOS.

R184, WIndows XP was the first workstation release based on the NT code-base. WIn 95/98/Millienium were the last DOS-based.

It hasn't been DOS since Windows 2000.

R185 are you sure? Windows XP wasn't using the NT base. It wasn't until Windows 7 that they switched over to it.

Maybe I'm wrong, I keep thinking Windows XP was releases before Windows 95, but it was the other way around.

IIRC Windows 2000 was more for servers, not personal workstations.

[quote] A lot of Windows 10 users don't even know that they can enter emojis anywhere by simply hitting Windows + .

That's probably for the best. Don't tell them.

I started with Windows 3.1 as a kid. I have loved every version of Windows except for the pain in the ass Vista, which was a mistake clearly. My current desktop is 11 years old and runs Windows 10 smoothly. It's my favorite version so far with XP.

On to 11 !

I think Windows 8 was worse than Vista, really.

I think the OS should fade into the background, and Windows 10 seems to so that pretty well.

Windows just hasn't been the same since Microsoft got rid of Clippy.

I can't remember which version of Windows I started with but they were all pretty buggy for me until 10. I've been pleasantly surprised at how stable it's been for me.

"I think Windows 8 was worse than Vista, really."

Yes Windows 8 you had to tweak a bit, to restore the startup menu and the widgets for example (what were they thinking?) But once done, I thought it was much better than Vista.

The only thing that I am worried about is a potential subscription model like they do with Office. I don't like subscription models. For companies that may be a better option for various reasons. But I prefer to own a product with a one time payment. It's just less hassle. And with so many subscription models out there (for internet/streaming alone) it's getting too convoluted already. My worry may also be related to the subscription fee that Microsoft is charging. $7.00 a month for 365 is less than Netflix or a daily paper. But I am using Netflix daily, Office for home use not that often. Office as a paid for service really doesn't have that value for me. If Windows (at some point) gets a comparable fee, I'd be mad. They may fold some Windows add-on services into Microsoft 365, but this nickel-and-diming for everything feels like a pain to me.

Linux

I'm glad Microsoft has toned down that stupid "mobile first everything is brightly-colored squares" interface.

R196, I don't think MS will ever give up their grip on the desktop. It's the desktop that leads to 365 and the app store, etc. Without that, they wouldn't control the entry way to that.

I can't see a monthly sub for Windows - I don't think I've had to pay for it at all since Windows 7.

[quote] I'm glad Microsoft has toned down that stupid "mobile first everything is brightly-colored squares" interface.

They toned it down because Windows Phone was a bust. If Windows Phone had been a success, we'd probably be drowning in brightly colored squares.

Gad, after Android with all its leaky apps and iCrap, I would look forward to a Windows phone. A phone whose apps I could control like my downloaded programs on my desktop. A phone whose crapware was removable and a phone where CCleaner works just like it does on my desktop. A phone where Windows defender is constantly working.

^ My job issued me a Windows phone and I really liked it

r191

i must've been the only one that never had issues with vista. i found it to be excellent and never had a problem with it.

[quote]R185 are you sure? Windows XP wasn't using the NT base. It wasn't until Windows 7 that they switched over to it.

You are incorrect. Windows NT became Windows 2000, and Windows 95 became window 98, and then the much maligned Windows ME (Millennium Edition, since they couldn't call it "2000" since that was taken).

Windows XP brought them together, and was the first consumer OS by Microsoft based on Windows NT.

From XP, the wen to "Windows XP SP2", which in spite of the "Service Pack 2" name, was a serious rewrite of all the core and innards to make it more secure. Before XP SP2, security was an after-thought in windows, but the whole virus/crashing/trojan/malware issue with Windows was spinning out of control.

From XP SP2, they had intended to go to "Windows Longhorn" (the code-name for the never-released follow-up) which would have been really, really cool, and very, very advanced. Unfortunately they hit all sorts of problems (like Apple did with their "Pink" OS years before), where they simply tried to do too much, and the hardware just wasn't ready. They threw it out in a big reset, and came up with Windows Vista.

Windows Vista brought all the modern technology and driver stacks that we all still take advantage of today... built in security, secure driver models, separation of Core and UI... it gets a really bad rap because hardware makers weren't ready, and too many PCs and laptops sold with "Built for Vista" logos on them... weren't. Drivers weren't ready, lots of old hardware had NO drivers, and more. But by the time SP1 came around, and there was a new generation of hardware, Vista was actually pretty solid. Hell, there are still visible Vista UIs in Windows 10 today if you poke around enough.

Learning from the perceived disaster of Vista, they then released Windows 7, which was the THIRD consumer OS based on NT (or fourth if you count XP SP2). Windows 7 added window snapping and window management, an improved taskbar, an improved start menu, a new Task Manager, and a bunch of other improvements throughout. It did NOT change the driver model or do anything else super-disruptive.

After that was the Windows 8 mis-step (which was all UI problems... it actually implemented a lot of great stuff under-the-hood that we still benefit from today, but the UI was too alien and different an unintuitive, and designed for touch when almost everyone would be using it on non-touch desktops and laptops).

Again, recovering from that, they came out with Windows 8.1 (a half-step back UI-wise), and then with Windows 10 made the UI fast, familiar, efficient, and not "scary and weird". And implemented the OS as a Service model that, after a rocky start, has lead to much smoother upgrades, while also adding features like emoji support, virtual desktop support, Linux integrated support, sandboxed virtual machines, improvements to search, etc.

Not that there weren't missteps with Windows 10 too... several introduced features utterly failed to catch on and have been remove, or will be removed soon... including Cortana, People pinned to the task bar, integrated Skype "Meet Now", 3D viewers/AR/VR, "Timeline", and several other minor things most people have probably never even heard of let alone used.

Windows 11 is just continuing the Windows 10 story with new branding and a refresh, light-weight UI that is more familiar to people who use Chromebooks and Macs... while still being familiar to Windows users.

It won't be perfect out of the gate, but I doubt it'll be any kind of fumble or disaster like Vista or Windows 8.

R203, if you got Vista on a brand new PC or Laptop, that had the graphics hardware to run it efficiently and smoothly, it's not surprising you had no real problems with it. Most of the problems were hitting people upgrading existing PCs from XP... or buying it on budget laptops that really couldn't hack it. Since that was the vast majority of people, Vista got tagged with the "buggy/disaster" impression.

R201, I used Windows Phone for five years I think. It was excellent. Better than iOS or Android in almost every way but one: Developer support and Available Applications. Unfortunately that is the single most important aspect. After trying to get developers on board, and failing, Microsoft gave up on Windows Phone, and has since embraced Android and to a lesser extent iOS (iOS being a closed off proprietary walled-garden makes it harder for Microsoft to integrate iPhones with Windows the same way and with the same depth they do with Android).

[quote]@r180, Windows is always been a cosmetic cover for DOS

Not since Windows XP it hasn't.

R168 Thanks for correcting me! -- R155

I thought it was dumb that the new Microsoft CEO cancelled the Windows Phone. It was a long-term play and they likely could have been the third option.

I can understand why Amazon cancelled their phone, but Microsoft should have tried. They used to just focus on software and wouldn't touch hardware, but that changed when they started making laptops.

R205 you probably should have read down a bit further in the thread where I said I was mistaken before typing your unneeded response.

Microsoft needs to be a 5G phone provider AND sell the MS Phone.

I would try a Windows phone. I actually prefer my Windows tablet over Android. Sure I would love to have all the apps, but I have perks from my tablet that I wouldn't have with Android. The file management is easier (mp3 and video editing), and the browser (my main tool on the tablet) is so much more capable (think extensions) than the same browser on my Android phone.

The Microsoft partnership with Samsung is interesting. Samsung have the largest share of smartphones globally, even more than Apple does. Samsung's Dex app offers a very Windows-like desktop mode for phones that works with any monitor or PC, almost like Continuum did for Windows, though not as functional. Strangely, the new Surface Duo phone by MS offers no desktop mode.

Speaking of Windows/Samsung. I was very intrigued by the idea of the YourPhone app. But somehow that concept never seem to go beyond its infant stage. I have a Windows tablet and a Samsung S10. So this should work. Alas it doesn't. It's nice when it works, but it usually fails right when I need it. Which is too bad because I love the concept.

R209, they DID try. They spent BILLIONS trying to make a go of it. Google actively boycotted the platform (and actively sued people trying to make YouTube available on the platform). Developers didn't want to develop THREE versions of their apps, as two was already difficult enough. There wasn't ever enough market share to make it worthwhile for developers to invest the time and energy. And Microsoft itself made several missteps that burned developers who gave up on the platform (like making Windows Phone 8 completely incompatible with Windows Phone 7). They actively PAID developers to make versions of their apps for Windows Phone, but once released those versions languished and became old and stale because they were never updated. I'm not really sure what else they could have realistically done to keep Windows Phone afloat.

I say this as someone who used both a Nokia Lumia 920 and a Microsoft Lumia 950. Still my two favorite phones ever (and the cameras on this phones blew away anything else available at the time... though they don't hold a candle to Pixel and Samsung phones today).

R212, I'm pretty sure EDGE on Android is being brought in line with Edge on desktop (same sources) and should eventually support the same extensions. If you use EDGE on both platforms you might have a better experience. I'm not sure when this convergence will happen but it's supposed to be "soon" (i.e. this year).

R215 they didn't try hard enough. It's Microsoft, they have some very smart people there.

They didn't have to force people to use C# or whatever to code for the phone. They could have provided a tool that let you build an app and export it for different platforms, that would have been amazing on its own.

They just need to try a bit harder. Google and Apple aren't infallible.

Edge=Chrome=Google=Alphabitz

A massive company like LG just exited the Smartphone business because they couldn't make a dent in it, or make money at it... but somehow Microsoft, using an OS no developer would write for, and thus having a mobile platform with few apps, somehow just had to "Try harder" than they did (dropping tens of billions of dollars), and they would have succeeded?

I mean, I loved Windows Phone, but that take seems a little divorced from reality. I wish they could have made it work, but pretty much everything was stacked against their success, and eventually they just had to cut their losses. Same way they gave up on Cortana, and on the Groove music service. There are simply other (better supported, more accepted by consumers) options out there.

R219 all they have to do is try harder. It's not that hard.

Maybe if Microsoft had hung this inspirational poster in their offices, Windows Phone would have succeeded.

I think it would have made all the difference.

R221 I think a lot of the world's problems can be solved with a handcrafted reclaimed wood "live, laugh, love" sign.

There was a moment when it seemed like Windows Phone might just succeed. There were a couple of countries in the world where market share approached 30% (Italy being one of them). But it collapsed soon thereafter.

Microsoft paid a TON for product placement in movies and TV shows. It's almost hilarious now to see those early 2010s shows with everyone using Windows Phones. Now those shows are instantly dated.

I only remember ever seeing a few people using them "in the wild"... other than myself. I don't think they ever got above 3% market share in the US. It's just not enough to make money or entice developers, especially when companies like Amazon and Google were ACTIVELY hostile to the platform, and refusing to port their apps over, or support them in any way.

They could have then sued Google and Apple for anticompetitive monopolistic behavior (which is ironic considering it's Microsoft). Microsoft had the money to do it.

I think the issue is that they seem to think they can make a dent in the competitive phone market and make a profit on the phones initially. You sell the phones at or below cost (the way Amazon does some items to corner market share) and then make the profit back through the app store and getting people locked into the Microsoft ecosystem.

They don't have the cache of Apple where they can make a new product and people will buy it because it's Apple. It's weird that Microsoft didn't play much dirtier.

[quote] Microsoft paid a TON for product placement in movies and TV shows.

They also launched a huge advertising blitz, enlisting celebs like Gwen Stefani to promote Windows Phone.

Believe it or not, Microsoft isn't the dirty player it used to be, and one of the reasons I prefer Windows to Mac and Android to iPhone is that I don't WANT to get "locked into" an ecosystem. I prefer the open, standards-based world, to Apples cult-like/smug locked-in proprietary nonsense. I prefer having options, to "one size fits all".

Another reason Windows Phone didn't succeed is that carriers hated it. They couldn't "customize" it the way they can iPhone or more importantly, Android. Honestly, there are so many reasons Windows Phone didn't make it, you can't cite just one or even three things.

I think modern Microsoft has been catching up to the other technology companies that left it in the dust when they were comfortable and smug at the top of the ecosystem. And by catching up I mean copying other successful things and applying the Microsoft stamp. The Azure cloud, the Surface laptops, etc.

I think the blowhard CEO that was there (Gates' hand-picked successor) is the reason they got stuck in a massive rut.

Steve Ballmer. My goodness. Couldn't stand his alpha personality. He was one of the few who actually wanted to be perceived as a bully. I am actually really happy that his name is associated with Microsoft's initial failings in the internet. Serves him right. Couldn't stand his hubris.

Balmer tried harder than anyone to get Windows Phone going and successful (to the point of even dropping BILLIONS on buying Nokia to ensure they had a manufacturer that didn't abandon them like all the others did).

But yeah, he was pretty awful, and let let Sinofsky ruin Windows with Windows 8, so he wasn't a good CEO at all.

Now that MS has gotten props for the surface and the success of Windows 10, I think the windows phone would have a better chance today. GFY apple clones-heads. It's 2021, and you date yourself with that attitude. Windows 10 is recognized as a huge success in the industry. MS finally reversing their course by giving it away was genius. If it weren't for the iphones, there would be lots of job hunting going on in Cupertino.

But right now the market is stagnant. This years releases look just like last years. And the year before that, and the year before that. A new choice would bring in sales just because it is new and different. And seamless integration between desktop and mobile would be a welcome respite. What you have out there now CAN work. But it can be a chore.

MS Bring out a Win10 phone!

It's just .. too... hard!@ we tried once! We're still exhausted!

Finally we're about to say goodbye to Adobe Flash. The cumulative update on the 2nd Tuesday of July will remove Flash from your computer for good. Or you can install the "preview" of next month's cumulative update now. It's on Windows Update as an optional update.

I'm with R234. Yay!

"Five Windows 10 features you really should be using".

I agree with these five, but I'd add Windows+. (emoji/symbol panel), Virtual Desktops, and Windows Snapping to the list.

About OneDrive: I'd appreciate if it worked exactly like OneDrive for Business. At work I use my OneDrive just like another shared drive. The folders act like any other folders on a shared drive. The regular OneDrive adds complexity that I find unnecessary. Here you have to specify folders on your own computer that then get synced with your folders in OneDrive. It creates a severe lag when sharing files and is much harder to manage overall in my opinion. Having duplicate files here and there seems more difficult to me.

OneDrive needs more work. I haven't found a cloud drive I really like, but OneDrive comes with my Office subscription so I use it more. I don't have it back up files or monitor a folder though, I have it mounted as a drive and copy files into it and then share from there.

When you install Windows 10, you can just say "Make my Documents folder on OneDrive" (or Photos, or videos, or a few other 'well known' folders). I just decided to start doing that. And I love it. I get a new PC, those folders just come over like they never left. All my devices share the same documents in those folders (I only sync Documents and Photos). I don't need to worry about backups, and I just put anything I want to ensure is backed up in those folders.

I agree i liked the "old way" of just having it be like an external drive (only in the cloud), but this feature of just being automatically a part of things is even easier to deal with.

The official reveal is happening now:

Windows 11 is 64 bit only, and requires some certain hardware features. Some older PCs/Laptops will be left behind. To see if your device is compatible, there is a tool that will check your device to see if it meets all requirements:

Windows 11 will not only run most all windows apps (going all the way back to Windows 3.1 and Windows 95), but will also run most Unix apps (command line and GUI), as well as all Android aps.

According to windows central I am not eligible for an upgrade.

Here's the sizzle reel... I think the coolest improvement is the whole "snap sets" thing, and the way windows remember where they were on different monitors and such, when you plug/unplug, dock/undock. It always just returns you to where you were, so you don't have to waste time re-setting up things. It's been one of Windows' biggest flaws for a long time now.

Built in chat/video-call is interesting, and all the new touch improvements and features are welcome (the old separate "tablet mode" has gone away).

[quote]According to windows central I am not eligible for an upgrade.

If you have a relatively new PC, you may just have to go to the BIOS settings and turn on TPM and Secure Boot, and then Windows 11 will work. It now requires TPM 2.0 as a security baseline.

Thank you R245.

More details...

One of the best things is they're going back to just one major update a year, instead of three or two, like with Windows 10.

This is just a minor, really minor, pet peeve of mine: I wish they found better names for their newer apps. A good name can be used as a noun and a verb, like 'zoom' and 'google'. Bing was probably an attempt to accomplish that, mimicking Google's goophy word. It is probably too goophy. Instead we are googling on Bing. But who says "I'll teams you'? Skype somehow worked better in that sense.

I loooove that I may be able to use Android apps. But I am a little wary given my experience with Your Phone. It says Android apps are going to be made available in partnership with Amazon and Intel using their Intel Bridge technology. Would this mean that Android apps will only work with new Intel processors, not their older generation processors, and no AMD? Will it also mean that Windows on ARM is no longer needed?

Does this mean that Android apps will be able to steal my personal info like Google does?

Yeah, Skype was a great name, and they just bought it and let it die. It's a real shame what happened to that.

And "Teams" never started out being what it is now... it was designed for helping out work teams communicate... but I hate the name now, because "Teams me" just sounds awful, but how ELSE are you going to say "message me on Teams"? Ugh.

And no, R250, because Windows 11 will only get Android apps from the Amazon store, so ti will steal your personal info like Amazon does... (ROFL!)

The Amazon store?

That TPM requirement is going to be a nightmare for upgraders.

Related to that, the TPM issue will prompt a lot of people to think they need a new PC. Given the current chip shortage, that's really problematic. We don't need millions of people trying to get new PCs right now.

The Windows Requirement Checker R241's article references basically tells you flat out you need to buy a new computer if your current one doesn't pass their checks and it even has links to Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart and Target (I think) on it.

Wasn't it rumored that Microsoft had arrangements with the computer and chip makers to release new versions that would push the limits of the technology, so people would be forced to buy new ones?

People aren't replacing or upgrading their tech as often as they used to because the returns, they are diminishing.

Will Windows 11 retain the Vista theme? I love that green login screen.

I seriously doubt it, R257, but Windows being what it is, I'm sure there's a way to configure it to your liking. It may take some hacking, and you may need to move the background images and other files from an instance of Vista, but it's likely doable.

That was a facetious comment, R258. Nobody wants Vista. A couple months ago, an old lady neighbor paid me to fix her old Toshiba 17" notebook, purchased in 2009.

I was all BUY A NEW COMPUTER but she was all I like this one. I know where everything is. I told her she wouldn't know where anything was when I was done with it.

Because here's the deal. It had some auto-update feature. But Toshiba got out of the consumer computer biz a few years ago. And the server that fed updates to the computers is no more. Somehow attempts to connect and update the computer screwed up the hard drive so it wouldn't boot. There are many stories about this online.

Rather than troubleshoot endlessly and attempt reformatting, I told her to give me $50 and I bought a new hard drive at Best Buy and put it in. This computer had 8GB RAM in 2009. Impressive. But the OS key? Vista. No way. I told her Vista was worse than Windows ME. I want it to be the same! she said.

She didn't have installation media. There was a coupon in the box she saved to order it for $9.95 shipping and handling, but she never did. She had the original receipt from Fry's electronics.

I told her she'd have to buy Win10 for about $100. Nooooo! Go buy a new computer I told her, or cough up the $$ for Win10 - M$ isn't supporting Vista anymore. She actually started crying. WTF. This was not a money thing - she has plenty. She was somehow attached to her old computer.

I called Microsoft support and told them a sob story about this old lady's Vista computer and could they replace the key please? M$ support was in India from the heavily accented tech English. My dog barked at the speakerphone every time she talked. We got lucky and she gave me a Win10 key for free "as a courtesy."

Now my neighbor's 12 year old computer works again and she's happy sending emails and browsing Fingerhut. She misses the free games that were on Vista but I found a download to replace them.

After Win11 drops, I'll be looking for another laptop in 2024.

[quote]I told her Vista was worse than Windows ME.

So you lied to her? Because Visa was only "bad" on devices that really couldn't run it (or shouldn't have been trying to run it).

[quote]That TPM requirement is going to be a nightmare for upgraders.

THIS!

What the fuck are Microsoft thinking? I get that they are trying to get everyone to purchase a new computer but this will inadvertently translate into stinking bad press and even worse end user sentiment towards Microsoft. There is going to be cacophony of complaining and confusion!

I have a very expensive desktop computer which I use for my graphic design business. It's less that 2 years old and I just ran the Windows 11 tool and got the error message saying "This PC can't run Windows 11" because of the TPC 2.0 issue... (see image link)

I'm not buying a new computer or even a new CPU. That's not gonna happen. I am pretty computer literate and have already found work around tutes on YouTube. Apparently, if you already have TPC 2.0 (most computers do if they are newer than 2016) then you can fiddle around in the BIOS to turn the functionality on. Haven't tried either but my point is that I am computer literate but most people aren't.

It's going to be fucking pandemonium. We better get popcorn stocks.

Here's a fix with the BIOS if anyone is interested. I'm going to do it now:

Sorry that link is just a lot of confused people and bitching! There are a few good tips in the thread if you can be bothered reading down.

Here's a better step-by-step:

I think my PC might be too old for W11. Oh well, it's a good excuse to splurge on a new computer.

R265 = Microsoft PR Representative.

My TPM is enabled and yet I still get the message windows 11 can't run on my computer.

How did you check to confirm TPM was enabled R267?

In my bios R268

I have a Surface Pro 5th gen, which I bought in 2018, and it’s not compatible with Windows 11. It’s nowhere near needing to be replaced. I think uptake on Windows 11 will be a bit slow.

When the Win 11 Beta drops on the Insiders Preview next week, it will be running on systems that are being flagged as incompatible. They say if you have the latest Dev build of W10 running on your computer, then W11 will likely work.

I have downloaded the leak and have it running on my Surface Book 2, it's a little buggy in spots, but overall it's very smooth and I'm surprised how fast it is compared to 10. The nicest thing is the overall polish that has been lacking since Widows 8. The look is more like a souped-up version of XP. It's much fresher and colorful than the boring menu suggests.

An office 365 subscription comes with 1tb of OneDrive storage. That's cheaper than almost everybody else.

Fuck this.

I have an Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz and my processor is NOT supported for Win11!!!!!

Again, I say, fuck this.

Is this going to be a repeat of Windows 8 (aka a disaster)?

R266, just a guy with an 8-year-old PC. I've thinking of replacing for a while.

[quote]It's less that 2 years old and I just ran the Windows 11 tool and got the error message saying "This PC can't run Windows 11" because of the TPC 2.0 issue...

R262, they're updating the tool to be more accurate and informative, but trust me, EVERY PC made in the last 5 years has a TPM chip, and in the last 2 years, it's TPM 2.0. It just may not be enabled in the BIOS. You can turn it on. There is no way a PC newer than 4 years old will fail to run Windows 11.

So don't panic, and put your rage away, as it's unwarranted.

R271, a colleague of mine got an email today telling him he'd been dropped from the insider program because his machine wasn't capable of running Windows 11.

R274, you'll still be able to install Windows 11.

Older CPUs are not "recommended" but will still work. TPM 1.2 is not "recommended", but it'll still work.

Microsoft is being very confusing in their messaging (no surprise, they're routinely terrible at this), so just wait until they clarify everything. If you read the details, you'll see that machines like yours will be able to install Windows 11 just fine.

Fuck them R279.

Call me weird but nobody should expect to automatically get a free update to the latest OS. It's just not what you paid for. You paid (or not) for an OS that works with your current hardware. The OS should still work flawlessly for the time it was agreed to, but I don't see a reasonable expectation for Microsoft to support all types of hardware until the end of time. If you want the latest OS, go and get the hardware that's needed. If you want to use your old hardware, fine, go and use it with the OS it came with. Supporting an OS for 10 years sounds reasonable to me, too. Although - it should be discussed if security updates could be provided for a longer time.

@r276, "[R266], just a guy with an 8-year-old PC. I've thinking of replacing for a while. "

I'm with you buddy, I'm in the same situation, a perfectly good PC running Windows 7 that never gives me a trouble. Great sound card running an excellent stereo. All my programs work well without issue. If Windows 11 turns out to be good I'll probably get a whole new set-up, but I'm sure not in any hurry

This happened to me with my last computer. Windows 10 came out and they said my computer was eligible for an upgrade. Well I went for it and it jacked up my computer. My current computer is about 4 years old and I won't be taking the risk on Windows 11, even though I would like to. I'll stick with 10 until it's time to get a new computer with 11 already loaded.

So far, my Surface Studio 2 will not be able to have it. According to their processor list. Unfuckingbelievable.

Check again in a couple weeks or months. I'm sure it'll be ready for it when the time comes. It would be very surprising if of all the manufacturers they would leave their own devices in the lurch.

There are those that have already successfully installed Windows 11 on the Studio 2, so ...

It should work with most every PC released in the last five years, save for some of the very, very low-end PCs and tablets.

Went into my bios to change secure boot from disabled to enabled and I get this warning: "Attention! Changing this setting may prevent your operating system from booting or require a reinstall. Are you sure you would like to continue?" Doesn't make me secure in changing it to enabled.

I have the TPM chip on my Surface and it’s enabled, and Microsoft’s tool still said I wouldn’t be able to download Windows 11 🤷🏻‍♂️

Checked the requirements to upgrade to windows 11 with my computer. I meet the requirements and yet the Microsoft tool says my processor doesn't meet the requirement.

My Desktop doesn't have the TPM module at all, so that's out, but the Surface Pro 6 passes the compatibility check.

How old is your desktop R290?

About 8 years or so, R291. It's good enough but still kind of a kind of a cyber-dinosaur.

I have so many questions about the Android apps. How will apps specifically developed for small screens and Android navigation buttons work on larger screens? How does Google feel about it? Will they torpedo this porting effort like they torpedoed Original Edge? What about IP usage? Did Amazon have to run the deal by Google in order to get a green light? I am not that well informed about the Android app eco-system, so this is all very exciting.

There are plenty of Android emulators that already that handle app scaling pretty well. As for Google, I don't think MS is going to rely on Google services like the app store, and there's not much Uncle Goog can do to stop a simple compatibility layer, but I'm no expert.

If Google was on board, you'd be able to use the Google Play store and play services and stuff. So clearly they're not on board. But there's nothing they can really do against using the Amazon Android store.

Windows 10 already has the ability to run android apps via "streaming/casting" from certain points (the latest Samsung models mostly). This is the next step, letting Windows 11 run actual android apps without relying on a phone. Of course, I'm not sure of what ANdroid apps I'd actually want to run on Windows 11, but it's nice to have the option.

R293 - my Android plays on my Surface like a virtual machine. I guess that’s an emulator? I don’t know. I’m old.

I'm guessing people already have Google apps side-loaded and running on the leaked Win11 build. I even have it running on my Amazon Fire tablet.

I saw where you can download Win 11 R297, but all the comments were that is very unstable.

All this angst over whether you can upgrade. The reality is, most people will be able to. Microsoft is being typically confusing in their communications here, and already they're backing off on some of the statements of minimum requirements. They started by saying "Only Intel Core 8th-Gen and newer", but are already backing off form that and confirming most 7th gen will qualify.

If your PC or laptop is old enough to not have TPM 1.2 (almost everyone has this), or a 7th-gen or later chip, then it's probably best if you get a new laptop or PC in the next year or so anyway, so don't worry about it.

Also note that there's two distinct levels they're talking about (but sometimes confusingly mislabeling)... the minimum hardware requirements (which are pretty low), and the "recommended" hardware requirements (which are much higher and more stringent).

So relax. Don't worry about it. If you actually want Windows 11, you'll most likely be able to get it by the time it is released. And if you can't, well, Windows 10 will be around, and will get updates, and it's fine... and you'll eventually get Windows 11 when you update your hardware.

Is it like Vista or ME Edition?

They have updated the Windows store this morning on Dev build 22000.51.

It looks good. I can't see any google apps yet but honestly, I am not bothered about seeing them. There are so many junky apps on google store, and I don't need a million dumb filters for my camera. I have sideloaded google apps on PC before, usually not worth the hassle. I prefer full desktop applications.

I ran that app to see if my computer was compatible with Windows 11 and I was told that it is NOT! It's only three or four years old; it has plenty of RAM and other stuff, but for some reason it doesn't like my processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz .

It's because of the TPM 2.0 requirement R302.

Mine is less than 2 years old and this is what I get:

If this hasn't been stated yet, here is a quick way to verify if you have TPM and what version you're running.

Right click the start menu

Click on 'device manager'

Expand the 'security devices'

Confirm the TPM version

I've met all the requirements R303 and R304 and yet it says my processor is the issue. BS.

I have a similar problem, R305. I am able to run a half-dozen virtual machines on my system, but somehow there's not enough oomph for Win11. BS

If they don't get the final product so it will run on more machines there are going to be millions of very pissed off consumers once this upgrade rolls out to the public.

Maybe, I will go back to my old Windows practice and install every OTHER Windows.

I'll keep Win10 until Win12.

The processor issue could be the generation of the processor. They have said they want 7 or better and things seem to change slightly every couple of days

The official line is a Intel Core Gen 8 or later.

I'd wager there are a TON of Gen 7 CPUs out there, so you're likely getting this message if you have a Gen 7 CPU.

It's also VERY likely that they'll respond to the outrage over Gen 7 being so widely used but being left behind, and allow Gen 7 CPUs by the time Windows 11 ships. Don't panic.

And why does the CPU generation matter? It's about security, and some built in vulnerabilities in older CPUs that have been exploited. As such, Windows 11 may end up saying that Gen 8 or later is 'Recommended', but still allow you to upgrade if you're on Gen 7. But don't expect Gen 6 or earlier to qualify.

I seem to remember that they already lowered the bar to 7, r310.

Not OFFICIALLY, R311. Expect that to take a while.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the new start menu or the centered task bar/start-button. I mean, they LOOK nice, but I tried using it for a while, and finally gave up. I switched on the option to move start/taskbar back to the left. What a relief. And if they give me the option to return to the previous start menu, I'll take it, but I won't hold my breath on that one. The new start menu isn't as customizable, no folders, a fixed size space (that is too small for all the apps I want to pin), and that non-optional "Recommended" area is annoying.

I really love everything else about it, so far. But I'm a developer/power-user, and the new start menu and centered task bar seems more tailored to very casual users.

r303 Nope. I have TPM 2.0. My error message clearly states that it's the processor. It's an Intel Core i7-6700. Apparently that's a 6th generation model.

Thanks for that suggestion R304. I tried that but was unable to see a security devices listing. Here's what I see:

Like others have said - Microsoft is going to have to do something about this because a lot of people are panicking and Windows 10 will be officially ditched in October 2025.

Scroll down to "security devices" R314 and click on it. It is the 5th one up from the bottom of your posted link R314.

I tried again R316 - 5th one up is "software devices".

There's no listing for "security devices" in the Device Manager list unfortunately.

Just type TPM in the search box R317

I searched TPM as instructed and this is what came up R318:

Type in security processor R319. This is the last ditch effort. If nothing comes up you don't have TPM. How old is your computer?

The computer is under two years old R320. I posted a screenshot of it at R303.

Searching security processor produced something thank you R320!

If you had TPM under specifications it would give you the manufacturer, version, etc. Looks like you don't have TPM, but someone with more knowledge than me can probably help you out.

Did you check your bios R321?

If this is real there are also reports of Windows 11 working on a decade-old Windows phone and Raspberry Pi.

Type tpm.msc in the run command. That will definitely tell you if a TPM module is installed in your computer.

EVERY computer made in the last 5 years has TPM... either 1.2 or 2.0. If your computer is five years old or less, you definitely have it. The confusion comes from the fact that some manufacturers call it something else. But it's definitely there.

If your computer is between 5 and 7 years old, it may or may not have it, and if it does, it's almost certainly 1.2.

Note that some computers -- especially gaming-focused PCs -- may have it disabled in the BIOS, so it may not appear. You'll have to enable it in the BIOS before you see it in some cases.

If Microsoft has scorned your PC as unfit to run the next generation of Windows, don't fret just yet: "Microsoft Might Lower the Windows 11 Minimum System Requirements"

But how will this affect my abacus?

you nerds are troublesome, creating fake drama.

You can repurpose your abacus into anal balls R328. Simples.

r330 Brilliant! You need to send that in to Martha Stewart.

I will R331. I will.

Did Microsoft mention how the get around not having the benefits of Google Play Services?

If you have an issue with that, take it up with Google.

That wouldn't be Google to resolve. Google Play services provide the support to make an app work on the respective device, like notifications, connecting with maps or other apps. Amazon app store has a decreased variety because not all apps work properly without Google Play services.

I was going to try to replace my desktop's hard drive with an SSD but when I heard about Windows 11, I thought maybe I should wait until it's released rather than reinstalling Windows 10 on the new SSD. But now that it's possible that my computer doesn't meet 11's requirements, I guess I should go ahead and do it.

Just remember one thing. Never run a defrag program on an SSD.

There's literally no need to ever run a defrag program on Windows 10, regardless.

Oh yes there is.

Oh no there isn't.

Windows 10 will automatically turn off optimization (defrag) on solid state disks, otherwise on spinning hard disks, it automatically defrags on a schedule.

Windows 10 defrags automatically on a weekly basis unless (like me) you turn that off. I defrag on average once a month. Anything more is worthless. And I definitely do not use the bundled Windows 10 defrag app. It's crap.

I'm so excited I just blew a load in my shorts!

(rolling eyes at R342)

Or you could have just left everything alone, ignored it all, not wasted your time and energy, and you would have been perfectly fine.

Before I start toying around with 11 on my current computer: If I join the official Microsoft insider program now, will I be able to revert to 10 if things don't work out?

I used Windows eons ago......and ascended to macOS ....never looking back

MacOS is so damn annoying, I know a ton of people who eventually went back to windows and haven't looked back.

R345, the only way I know to "go backwards" is to do a clean install. So if you really think that's likely, I wouldn't go ahead.

[quote]Coming soon, to a computer near you

nope

Mac users are so tedious. Their cult-like "smug" is the main reason I hate Apple (but god there are so many, many other reasons).

R350

I would expect a response like that from a Microsoft employee.

I would expect THAT kind of response from a Mac-cultist.

A new update is out with a bunch of fixes and tweaks.

Honestly, they're shedding or hiding a lot of power-user stuff to make it more "friendly" for laypeople I guess. It looks nice, but I'm less than enthused.

Which features are they shedding?

R353, they've been on a steady march to do this since WinXP. It always takes more steps to get to basic settings and tasks with each new version. Take setting an IP address as an example, you used to be able to get to Network settings directly from the Control P:anel, then they made you go through Network Sharing Center, then through the Metro app abomination.

Which, ironically, makes it more difficult for average users (who often have to look up how to do these things anyway). They then have to contend with ever more convoluted steps and web examples to do something that used to just take a few words to explain. It's idiotic.

I think the most basic case in point is how you turn your computer off. Sleep mode, restart or total shut down - why do I have to do three clicks to turn my computer off? Why is it such an ordeal to simply place an on/off button (shortcut) somewhere on the desktop or task bar? First world problem, I know. But every electronic device from coffee maker to phone to car has a one-hit on/off switch. Why is that such a no-no for a computer? I seem to be the only one wondering because there aren't even good third party solutions for this admittedly minor ordeal.

Another nag: Why is Microsoft so vehemently against a dual pane file manager? What's so extremely harmful about it that they don't even offer an optional dual pane view? At least for this we have third party options, very good ones even.

I have a friend, R356 who's copied over the original dual-pane XP 32-bit File Manager to every new Windows release, even though it can't see x64 folders. It was just better (it didn't take an hour estimating how long it might take to delete files or folders before, you know, deleting them, for example).

[quote]Which features are they shedding?

A bunch of things, but mostly things that won't be much missed.

Cortana is gone

Timeline is gone

"People" on the task bar is gone

You can no longer position the taskbar at the top or sides of the display

You can no longer start Task Manager by right-clicking the Task bar

Tablet Mode is gone

"Wallet" is gone (bet most never even knew it was there)

No more folders or groups on the start menu

Live Tiles are gone

No more "Quick Status" from the lock screen

Guess with my Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6400 CPU @ 2.70GHz 2.71 GHz processor I won't be able to update to Windows11. Oh well, there are worse things in life.

Windows 10 is going to be parallel to Windows 11 for years.

[quote] why do I have to do three clicks to turn my computer off?

You don't. You have a shutdown.exe file in your windows/system32 folder. Just set up a new shortcut anywhere on your hard drive & cut & paste the command below into the location box. Call the new shortcut 'Shutdown'. Then right click the new shortcut, click 'change icon' and assign an icon to it. It won't find an icon at first but just keep going and the built in Windows icon bank will appear. I use the classic red STOP icon you see in the image at the bottom left.

C:WindowsSystem32shutdown.exe /s /t 00

Then move the new shortcut to your start menu/programs folder per the below path. It will then appear on your start menu. You may have to unhide system folders to see the program data folder.

c:/windows/programdata/microsoft/windows/start menu/programs

R361 I can hear Bill Gates yelling, “Melinda? MELINDA!! Come here and help me set up this shortcut I found on DL. Melinda? MELINDA!!”

👍 R362! And I just noticed that for some reason DL mangled the path to the start menu programs I wrote above. But then, anyone should know the mangled word is 'microsoft'. Hmm, now let's see if DL mangles the word again.

R356 The most emblematic thing about the mishigas of Windows is you used to have to click on the “Start” menu to shut Windows down.

R363 I’m guessing the operating system running DL can’t handle the backslashes of WIndows’ file paths.

Microsoft has the worst tech support ever. And I say that as an IT professional. Not even worth calling. The company obviously doesn’t put the proper resources and tools behind their staff to allow them to succeed. Terrible waste of time.

[quote] Cortana is gone

Is it just me or is speech-to-text really not a thing? You could use Cortana, on my Acer laptop you could use Alexa, you could dictate text into Word. But I don't hear anyone ever doing that. I thought maybe people don't use that feature in offices because they don't want to overshare content with co-workers. But now working from home, I am still not using that feature. I am keying it all in. I wonder why speech-to-text is not adopted by users.

It's too slow, R367. Also, it's much more difficult to speak exactly what you want to type than you think. For example, I've paused and edited a couple of times just in writing this post.

[quote] I wonder why speech-to-text is not adopted by users.

I think it's partly an ego thing. In the past, that feature was available in the "Ease of Access" category for disabled people. People may be ok with being lazy, but for some, using features made for the disabled could be a bridge too far for them (Me? I'm not a cripple! I have functioning hands!).

[quote] Microsoft has the worst tech support ever.

Back when Windows 10 first came out I had zero problems upgrading 3 of my devices. But one unit just went haywire. Half the start menu items no longer worked and a whole myriad of other problems. After I worked on it 2 days I broke down and contacted Microsoft through their help app and a tech guy from India said it would be necessary fr him to link up with my computer. Stupidly I allowed him to do that. This was the first time I'd ever contacted Microsoft for any type of support. Within a few minutes I could see this guy had no idea what he was doing and was causing more harm than good. I finally told him to stop and I disconnecting from the link up. I ended up having to spend $100.00 to buy a new W10 installation. I got it up and running 100% by the end of the day.

Fast forward a couple of months and I was on the phone with a Microsoft tech regarding a friend's computer and the conversation got around to the disastrous link up with the tech from India and me having to buy a whole new W10 installation and how horrible their tech support in India was. That guy transferred me to another person at Microsoft who had me email a copy of the purchase receipt when I bought the new W10. Within 30 minutes he had issued a credit for the full amount to my credit card.

R364, that ridiculous criticism (as if it doesn't make sense to "start the shutdown process") is usually from people who were perfectly okay with dragging the system drive to the trash can in order to eject it back in the Mac OS 5-9 days. That was way worse and way more stupid.

R367, you can just hit Windows-H when you're in text box or field of any kind, and dictate anything you want.

It can be REALLY useful if you're using windows on a tablet without a physical keyboard. It works shockingly well.

R71, I don't think it was ever real criticism. I think people were just making fun of a very peculiar scenario.

After a bit of tinkering, some clever person has got Google Play Store working on Windows 11, using Windows Subsystem for Android. I have got Grindr working on my Surface Pro. Works flawlessly.

Thanks R374. I'm going to give that a try on my Surface Pro this weekend.

Fuck Microsoft and Apple.

Linux, kids. Excellent OS. Excellent software. Free.

I can't use an OS, R376, that won't let you create a link on your desktop without creating and editing text files.

No one could in the modern world. You'll be just fine with any modern Linux distribution, R377.

Oh really, R378?

Yes, really. Ubuntu has a task bar that disappears. You put your desired links there.

Move the cursor to where you have put the task bar, top, bottom, or either side, and it appears. Your links are there. You place them yourself with a single click. Go to the menu with all the programs and click "Add to favorites."

The instructions you posted are just a way to complicate a simple process that is already there.

I know about the task bar. However, putting links on the task bar where you have to hunt for them each time is NOT the same as having them instantly available on the desktop. Particularly if you have dozens (as I do). Gnome used to allow shortcuts, they quite stupidly removed them. Unforgiveable.

No, R376. Just ... no.

There are a shitload of reasons normal people should avoid Linux or any variant distro.

Whining about putting things on the desktop isn't really one of them (it's a terrible practice).

But if you do want to pollute and clutter your desktop, use "Fences" from StarDock which lets you organize things on your desktop in a dozen great ways.

Windows 11 is the first version of Windows I think REQUIRES solutions from StarDock to make it useable.

R374 Someone on another site mentioned running an android launcher works well when it's run over Windows Subsystem For Android.

WSFA has a built-in interface, but it's bare-bones. I have Nova Launcher running at the minute and can confirm this works well on a Surface tablet. Nova is running full screen and even the camera is working well. Most of the Play Store apps I have tried have worked well. Of course, it's nicer on apps that adapt to a larger screen.

As Subsystem is running natively alongside Windows it's nice and fast, almost as zippy as my Samsung S21.

So technically this means that anyone who hung on to their old Nokia Windows 10 phones (if they are powerful enough) can download Windows 11, and basically turn their old phones into Pixel 5s with Google Play store?

R2

Yes, basically for those who already have Windows 10 going to 11 will be a free upgrade. Those still running Windows 7 may or may not be so lucky.

Personally wasn't bothered to install Windows 10 as was perfectly happy with 7 on a computer bought back in early 2000's. That computer recently died (hard disk failure), so just decided to buy a new one which came with Windows 10 preinstalled. Dell assured me that Windows 11 was coming and would get a free upgrade. Sure enough about a few weeks ago Windows update informed me that Windows 11 was ready for install on computer. Haven't bothered yet as am really just getting used to Windows 10 from 7, and haven't figured out all what the former can do.

Personally have always believed and followed oft given advice that when going from one OS to a newer version or another, a clean install (on new or wiped computer) is best. Many had no end of problems "upgrading" their devices from Windows 7 to 10.

Thing about Windows 11 is it won't run well on all devices. If you have and older computer, laptop or other device running Windows 7 (or worse Vista or some other ancient MS OS), it may lack necessary bare minimum system requirements to run Windows 11. You can find out if your system can handle Windows 11 by running system compatibility tool.

If you're running windows 10, you don't need to "clean install" Windows 11... they're same underneath, just some UI changes. It's like any other Windows 10 update.

Installed the update.

I don't like being forced to have the desktop nav bar on the bottom of the screen - I read somewhere they were going to re-add the flexibility for it in a future update but it's annoying. I also don't like that you only can dump all the most used apps in one blob at the top of the start menu - mine were organized neatly before.

Most of the new Settings screens are messy, with bad organization.

I didn't like that it silently enabled my microphone for Cortana and that I kept wondering why this weird audio box would appear randomly - it's because Microsoft was listening for anything that sounds like "Cortana". I had to disable the microphone access for that app specifically, there's no way to just turn off voice recognition.

I don't like the right click context menus having things hidden behind a "more options" button - tasks I do normally now have an added step thanks to that.

The rest of it, the visual enhancements are the only actual enhancements I've seen - are very nice. But I'm not seeing any other benefit to this update just yet.

If things follow MS's usual MO Windows 11 is largely one huge patch or whatever of Windows 10 with some extra bits added.

Since day one MS Windows has been famous as a bloated and buggy OS often of security holes. MS puts out a bunch of incremental patches to address this or that known or found issue, then comes a "new" OS that supposedly is better than previous, oh and addresses various concerns.

For years companies and individuals ate this up and did what MS wanted; upgraded to new whatever new Windows OS was being offered. Then people started getting wise and told MS to go and pound salt. Businesses especially were getting tired of the "new" MS OS merry go round that cost them plenty in many ways.

So MS came up with something new; now they just cancel support for older OS, browsers, etc.. leaving them orphaned and those who still run them largely on their own.

MS has tried their level best to kill Windows 7 off totally, but people just won't upgrade to Windows 10. Internet Explorer died a painful death in theory, but people still use that browser even though MS has ceased most if not all support and labels continued use a security risk.

[quote]I don't like the right click context menus having things hidden behind a "more options" button - tasks I do normally now have an added step thanks to that.

I don't know why MS is so intent on doing this in every OS update. They always add additional steps to complicate any task.

[quote]Explorer died a painful death in theory, but people still use that browser even though MS has ceased most if not all support and labels continued use a security risk.

R389 that's because it IS a security risk. Internet Explorer was buggy, incompatible with many HTML standards (Microsoft's hubris in trying to set their own standards and force others to adopt), and needed to die. Edge is much better since they tossed out IE and started over, although I still use Firefox.

Windows 7 was nice for a long while but Windows 10 Pro is actually a vast improvement. (Let us not mention the awfulness of Windows 8/8.1)

R390 the taskbar changes are quite annoying especially if you used the taskbar on the right of left side of the screen (I used it on the left).

I tried to find some way to turn off the right click menu "More options" additional drop-down but didn't see any straightforward way.

They moved Widgets to its own tab in the taskbar (which you have to click to access after opening the start menu) and that makes it essentially useless. It'd be nice if you could drag the widgets to the desktop, but you can't do that in this version.

That being said, I am getting used to it, I guess.

Incidentallty, Microsoft makes a home Launcher replacement for Android mobile devices and it's actually the best launcher I've seen. Also lets you delete the annoying forced Google search bar on the homescreen, which frees up valuable space.

And relatedly...

I just updated my Google Pixel phone to Android 12 and it's revolting. Super rounded icons and huge interface elements presumably for people who thought icons were too confusing. AND Google took the added step of TOTALLY UNINSTALLING the Microsoft Launcher during the upgrade! I had to reinstall it from the Play store.

I hate, hate, hate the round icons, and the giant interface options. Even the new font is annoying.

R388, you can fix and customize all that for five bucks... go to the StarDock website and download "Start11".

[quote]I didn't like that it silently enabled my microphone for Cortana and that I kept wondering why this weird audio box would appear randomly - it's because Microsoft was listening for anything that sounds like "Cortana". I had to disable the microphone access for that app specifically, there's no way to just turn off voice recognition.

Um... this isn't actually a thing. Cortana isn't even in Windows 11. WTF are you even talking about?

[quote]The rest of it, the visual enhancements are the only actual enhancements I've seen - are very nice. But I'm not seeing any other benefit to this update just yet.

Check out snap assist (hover over the maximize button on a window, select a layout, and you can snap apps side-by-side in more ways than Windows 10 allowed). Also "snap groups"... once you snap apps together, Windows 11 remembers it, and you can jump back to them with the click of a taskbar button.

The biggest enhancement is how Windows manages docking and multiple monitors. Plug and unplug displays, or dock and undock laptops to external displays, and apps remember where they were and do the right thing. FINALLY.

There are improvements to virtual desktops as well. Improved power management. Improved performance. A new Windows Store that is a lot better (and will be getting even better shortly). The "comming soon" ability to run any android app on your desktop. Enhancements to touch, voice, and pen support. Improved support for gaming.

R398 is mostly full of shit.

I have been offered it to upgrade but I am afraid. Not that I like windows 10 but...

Windows 11 + Start11 > Windows 10

Windows 10 > Windows 11 w/o Start11

R396 is clairvoyant.

I've decided to not upgrade my 5 machines. I see nothing in W11 that makes it worth all that effort. I'll just wait until I start replacing these machines and the new ones will have W11 already installed.

R394 what are YOU talking about?

Cortana is very much in Windows 10 AND Windows 11. It's their "search experience", and in Windows 10 you actually have the option to turn off the listen word separately. I can't find that option in Windows 11 anymore so I had to block microphone access to the app (luckily, you can still do that).

Please note I literally just installed Windows 11 this past week. It's there.

R395 Ah. I've never used the task view or any of the windows sorting features. So you're saying you can set it up so it has basically multiple desktops you can flip back and forth?

Oh. I did notice some enhanced security features - one of the main ones, which I think is why the whole "some machines aren't ready for Windows 11 so they can't have it" thing happened, is the memory integrity stuff. But because many basic drivers don't work with it, Microsoft ships it off by default. I tried to turn it on but it told me I had four conflicting drivers, all things I actually need.

R394 if you have installed Windows 11* make sure you have a microphone enabled (webcam or whatever) and say "Cortana". A little speech box will pop up briefly and then disappear if you don't follow it with a command.

I never chose to install Cortana in Windows 10, either - it was included by default. But you had the option to turn it off, and so it was.

I haven't upgraded to 11 yet but it is staged to go in my updates...might just stay that way for awhile.

r394 Note Cortana, very much installed after the Windows 10 to Windows 11 upgrade, and uninstallable.

Cortana is not in Windows. There's no more "cortana button" on the taskbbar. There's no saying "Hey Cortana" to get a voice assistant. I seriously have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I'm running Windows 11 right now, and I see no sign of Cortana anywhere.

"So you're saying you can set it up so it has basically multiple desktops you can flip back and forth?"

Yes. Windows 10 has had this for a long time, but Windows 11 brings some very welcome improvements to the experience, including the ability to name each virtual desktop, set custom background images, drag them around, and they persist through reboots.

A four-finger drag left or right will switch desktops by default, and there are also Windows-Key short-cuts for flipping between desktops rapidly, as well as using the task view button to show all available desktops, create new ones, configure existing ones (wallpapers, etc), and moving applications between them.

Both my laptops say I can't go to 11. Oh, well.

Here's a detailed list of system requirements, including requirements for individual features, and what features have been removed.

Girls, you're both Google-challenged.

[quote]Both my laptops say I can't go to 11.

Same here. I have an older desktop with an i7-3770 cpu @3.40GHz processor. It works fine for just browsing and the stock trading program that's installed.

r410 oh, I searched for it before, and I saw the same news article that the other poster mentioned that said Cortana wasn't going to be in Windows 11, but it is, so I chose to believe my own eyes versus a news report that came out before Windows 11 was released.

The search answers to the keyword "Cortana". There is a Cortana app in the Windows 11 applications list that cannot be uninstalled. I even posted a screenshot showing it in the App list, along with the greyed out ability to uninstall. By default, Microsoft installs Cortana and sets it to ON and gives it the microphone ability, exactly as I said.

Windows 11 HAS Cortana.

[quote]So, does windows 11 have Cortana? the short answer is yes, the Cortana feature still exists within the windows 11 operating system but you cannot see this feature within the taskbar. Microsoft has removed this app from the taskbar, and hide this app within this Windows 11 operating system. Besides that, you cannot see this Cortana app after the first boot. Usually, when we install the windows 10 OS at that time we first get the Cortana logo and voice but it is not going to happen in windows 11. However, if you really like to use the Cortana app then you can search this app from the search bar or from voice search.

This, in the article above, is partially incorrect. Cortana the app, which again shows up quite clearly in the app list, is very much still there after multiple reboots. The article is correct in that if you go to App Settings, which I didn't see in the System app list but shows up when you search for it, you can turn it OFF so it doesn't launch at boot, but there is apparently no way to completely uninstall it.

That article above appears to have been written by an ESL content farm person so it's probably cribbed from some other article that explains it better.

Here's the App Settings. Note I have turned it OFF now.

r406 note the Microsoft website referenced in r409 that says it's very much in Windows 11. If my multiple screenshots didn't prove it, at least believe that. You are wrong.

Note that Cortana is listed in the top list of

Then below that, it says this:

[quote]Cortana will no longer be included in the first boot experience or pinned to the Taskbar.

Yes, they changed the taskbar so it doesn't show up as a separate entity. The "first boot experience" I assume means it doesn't prompt you the way you were prompted on Windows 10 to configure Cortana.

The entire reason I mentioned it above, before you keep repeatedly telling me I was wrong, was because I kept seeing that bloody voice input popup whenever I said something that must have sounded like Cortana. It's just a box with no label that shows microphone levels, and it disappears fast. Once I saw it pop up for the third time unbidden, I figured out it must be Cortana, and said "CORTANA" and it popped up again. That is when I turned off microphone access for the app, after I couldn't uninstall it.

In short, Microsoft pulled a Microsoft and hid it somewhat, but it's still there and still appears when you speak to it.

If it's not showing up anywhere for you I'm guessing you are using a different version of Windows 11. I'm using Windows 11 Home, not Pro. I can only assume if you aren't seeing it anywhere, you are using Pro, which you probably should have considered before claiming I'm incorrect.

I don't know what to tell you. I have a laptop here that I got with Windows 11 on it. I can shout "Cortana" and "Hey Cortana" at it until I'm blue in the face, and ... nothing.

You must have upgraded from Windows 10 and it must have been on when you upgrade. By default, it's nowhere to be seen or heard in Windows 11 as far as I can tell. I have to go DIGGING to even find any sign of it.

Your experience is probably NOT typical. Saying you hate Windows 11 because Cortana defaults to "ON" is just a lie... it clearly does not. It's JUST YOU.

Brief run down....

It's rolling out to more people.

If you do get it, I highly recommend the 5-6 bucks on the StarDock "Start11" utility. The worst part of Windows 11 is the fucking start menu, and taskbar limitations... STart11 brings almost all the Windows 10 functionality back, and THEN some (you can have your start menu look like Windows 7 if you want, plus lots of other customization options).

My pc has the icon for the installation of Windows 11. I haven't done it yet. I'll be the last holdout.

r418

Why change whilst it's new? Wait till they find and work out the bugs.

I agree R419. There will be too many things to be sorted out now.

Eh, it's not buggy. It's just Windows 10 with a face-lift, a few new features which are actually pretty decent, and a couple of inexplicable regressions in features/usability around the Start Menu and Task Bar.

And instead of twice-a-year updates they're moving to once-a-year updates. Windows 10 will continue to receive twice a year updates, but they'll be pretty minimal from here on out.

If you DO upgrade to Windows 11, you have like 20 days to decide to roll back if you don't like it or it doesn't work well for you.

Just when I'm starting to feel comfortable enough with something....then they change! I hate change...