In The Heights

It's boring AF.

Reminds me of the over-praised, over-rated, over-priced Hamilton.

'this is a pretty quaint image of street life, whose unrealities probably worked better on stage' - Peter Bradshaw THE GUARDIAN

I quit trying to like it after my eyes glazed over.

It's not "Follies"

Not enough black people

It doesn’t get more mediocre than this show. It’s being overpraised because of Hamilton, but the fact is if Hamilton had been at the level of Heights, you wouldn’t be hearing a word about this and Miranda’s career would have died on the vine like all those three-named Broadway composers no one cares about. Unfortunately, since Hamilton became a phenomenon we’re subjected to this misery. Thanks HBO/Warner!

[quote]All I can think about is do the plants need watering?

More than likely they do not.

I am big. It's the pictures that got small.

No comments on Mark Anthony?

I won't call it a fluke, but Hamilton was lighting in a bottle. Miranda will never reach those *ahem* heights again.

Hamilton was LMM's 'Thriller' or 'Faith' or 'Purple Rain' or 'Born to Run'. To George Michael: "You only have that big year, once!"

Of course it has a high rotten tomatoes reading because… woke critics love minority storytelling.

[quote]No comments on Mark Anthony?

Who?

I was listening to a podcast review of it yesterday and one of the hosts was on the verge of tears talking about how good it was. I can’t really believe it’s that amazing, but guess I’ll have to see.

R14, many of those people are compensated.

Bitter, Old effete white gay men won’t like it or get it. It’s not for them

OK, Jimmy Smits on hold with a Musak version of "You'll Be Back" was pure genius.

Fun fact: The over-priced new dry cleaner was played by the husband of Paige Davis Page, HGTV's legendary hostess with the mostest.

I’m not really into musicals or theatre but I liked it and would watch it again. The story felt rushed and a little confused at time, but I enjoyed the music.

I don’t like musicals, but I really loved this. It didn’t seem hokey or corny. It seemed hip and fresh.

Jimmy Smits, r17? Fugettaboutit. He's #2 on my list (after Ben Affleck) of actors I can't believe made it.

R19 What story?

If you just look at the story elements, it’s maudlin and shallow and facile. However, like R&H, much of the power comes through the cultural setting. Though LMM has no shame cranking up the deus ex machina. The major plot points are a winning lottery ticket and a blackout.

And the death of Abuela

Yes, r34. Even Hamilton has that feeling of things happening to the characters, though there are a few exceptions. When Hamilton drops the Reynolds pamphlet, someone finally took an action with visible consequences onstage. The showmanship is often audacious, but it’s rarely in the service of a narrative.

[quote] I was listening to a podcast review of it yesterday and one of the hosts was on the verge of tears talking about how good it was. I can’t really believe it’s that amazing, but guess I’ll have to see.

Oh, if it was a podcast review than you have to trust it. I mean, not just anyone can do a podcast review!

OP, I couldn’t get through 40 mins. of it and I started ffwd after about the 1st 20 mins.

LMM is ambitious, great. Seems like a nice guy, terrific. I just don’t get his stuff. I gave the 3rd hour (!) of Hamilton a miss too - just not interested.

I think it has something to do with when the lead guy rapped “my friend, Cole Porter” and I was like, huh? What? That seems really unlikely. Just like all of his stuff does.

I got so bored with Hamilton because nothing immediate ever happened on stage - everyone was always talking about what had just happened off staged (“I’ve returned!”) or what was going to happen once they left the stage. There were hardly any actual dramatic scenes!

Hamilton is a triumph of staging over mediocre material.

I remember hating this back when I saw the performance on the Tony's. LMM is corny and an overrated hack. The new West Side Story will blow this shit out of the water!

Not without Jerome Robbins. Justin Peck is a real mediocrity and dance is such a huge dramatic element in this show it needs a genius. Even Saul Chaplin who co-produced the movie and had spent his life in Hollywood as a musical director and absolute loathed Robbins and said he would never work with him again no matter what said that Robbins was the only person in show business he knew that was a true genius.

R30, you must know that Robbins was fired from the movie? Also, your attribution to Saul Chaplin sounds identical to what Sondheim has said about Robbins many times in interviews.

I loved it

R32 Loved what?

Sorry, I don't pay attention to anything above 14th Street.

[quote]Justin Peck is a real mediocrity

Couldn't be more my type, though.

The dam thing is 3 hours long and directed by the man who gave us Crazy Rich Asians! No thank you. Hamilton didn't produce one memorable or distinctive tune and after half an hour I was bored. That boring pretentious mousey drama queen L-MM is over-rated and as of now over.

I was left bedridden with indifference.

I liked it!

(I really did.)

We get it. The boomer eldergays really hate this and Hamilton.

R39 Just people with taste. And a sense of story.

Blurgh.

Lina's right. It was good and loud, at least!

I'm a bitter, old effete white gay man who enjoyed the film of INTO THE HEIGHTS quite a lot. Done with lots of care and imagination and joy.

A cinematic joy

[quote]I'm a bitter, old effete white gay man

i.e., the quintessential Datalounger.

Just posted in the other ITH thread - I saw it today and quite liked it, and I was lukewarm on "Hamilton." I thought the Marc Anthony bit was a perfect cameo. It brought a real charge to what would have otherwise been a pathetic scene.

Speaking of "Hamilton," anyone heard Weird Al's "Hamilton Polka?" It was very impressive.

[quote] I think it has something to do with when the lead guy rapped “my friend, Cole Porter” and I was like, huh?

Well, it's certainly no "Down on the Depths of the 96th Floor."

It's a huge flop. A Quiet Place in its third week has beaten it from being the #1 at the box office. In The Heights took second place with only $11.4 M. Opening weekend projections for In The Heights were $20M plus...

All that damn singing is truly irritating.

Marc Anthony always looked like the pop eyed chihuahua from Ren and Stimpy.

R48 A Quiet Place II's total gross after 3 weeks is $109 million. ITH will never come close to that or the total gross of Cruella $56 million 3rd week or The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It $43 million 2nd week.

What's irritating R49 is the rapping. I'll take real singing -- in a MUSICAL -- any day over some talent-free hack basically talking to a beat.

I want the 2 hours and 22 minutes back that I wasted watching this.

I saw an article headline that LMM was going for dreamlike and authentic. Did he succeed?

Yes. He created an authentic nightmare.

It never stood a chance it’s getting torn apart on twitter as is the director because of this interview.

^I just saw that too (Roxane Gay naturally has some things to say about it).

It's like a saccharine promotional video for LatinX L11ives Matter.

They're almost white enough to be Cuban!

Saw it at the AMC in Dolby last night and fucking loved it.

Wonderful entertainment. Netflop must be seething with jealousy since all their shows are shit.

It’s a flop!

R29, Oh, in Dolby! That must've been the reason some of you liked it, while most hated it.

It is very good. It has stellar reviews

Everything this guy does is treacle.

The many references to Do The Right Thing made me queasy.

In The Heights doesn’t deserve to even look in its direction.

Overall I liked it. But as someone who saw the stage musical years ago some of the plot changes for the movie were poor choices imo. The undocumented dreamer subplot with the young kid felt very forced. The show was on Broadway in 2008, so I guess the film had to try to address more recent social issues, but it wasn’t very well executed.

They also completely erased one of the main plot points of the musical which was the racial tension and conflict between Nina’s father and the black character, Benny. Leaving that in would have at least helped the movie convey something a little more interesting, a little more nuanced.

I did not love this…but I’m confused by people calling it a “flop.”

I watched this for free on HBO Max, as I’m sure many others did. How can you compare its numbers to movie theater numbers?

Because it underperformed R67. Between acquisition rights, movie budget and marketing the studio spent at least $130 million.

Showing it for free on HBO MAX was a mistake. Plus it’s getting bashed on social media . See the link at R55 the comments below are depressing. Jon Chu was begging people to go see it and people are accusing him of colonization

[quote]Jon Chu was begging people to go see it and people are accusing him of colonization

What does this mean? Is he trying to buy Greenland too?

Where are the trans?

amazingly not everything can be black and trans

there are many amazing stories in the latin community that deserve telling

why does twitter have to ruin everything? not everything is for you!!!!

I thought I spied a tranny or two in it.

The problem is LMM is a racist. The cast isn't dark enough. He could have solved that Lena Horne Max Factor Egyptian or cork.

R73, are you one of these bitches?

Thank you, R41. :)

[quote]amazingly not everything can be black and trans there are many amazing stories in the latin community that deserve

Many of the "black" people in Washington Heights aren't actually "African-American." Quite a few of them wouldn't even consider themselves to be black. (Dominicans especially.)

Afro-Latinos or just dark-skinned Latinos are part of the latino community, especially there. Not everyone is light-skinned.

Gina Torres, Yaya DaCosta and Zoe Saldana are perfect examples.

People just expected better of Lin-Manuel Miranda for some strange reason.

As GDT once said, Hollywood doesn't know how to do Latin. Rap in a Latin film?? Girl please. Get the fuck with that shit! The majority of Latin people despise rap. Some youth loves Reggeton but must people look down on it.

LMM thinks he's Anglo or a Non-Latin Black. He ain't. He's Latino-Asian. Bring some TBS realness with a dash of Bachata or at least give us some Julio Iglesias to add some soul.

BTS I meant to say*

The dreamer stuff was very forced. I do remember more realistic subplots in the play. It was a more realistic if sentimental view of The Heights.

Since when is everyone on Datalounge an expert on Latinx culture and music preferences?

Why isn’t the rap more authentic and hateful and homophobic?

The "Oracle" is a DL psychic, so I guess that qualifies him to be "an expert on Latinx culture and music preferences," R80.

He's also an expert on Froy Gutierrez and Richard Madden.

Maybe there’s experts on Latino culture R80 but not LatinX which almost no one in the Latino community uses or wants to use.

[quote] It doesn’t get more mediocre than this show. It’s being overpraised because of Hamilton, but the fact is if Hamilton had been at the level of Heights, you wouldn’t be hearing a word about this and Miranda’s career

Wrong.

In the Heights was a hit on and off Broadway years before Hamilton.

The musical premiered in 2005. That's during the George W. Bush administration. Not a product of the era of BLM.

R85 2008.

It was so earnest, but didn't have an interesting story to tell. It's the classic boy meets girl story with a dash of the "I have dreams bigger than this town" story with a whole lot of saccharine "there's no place like home" crap thrown in. The direction and choreography are occasionally interesting and creative, but that can't save a script that's hardly there and it certainly didn't need to be 2 1/2 hours. When the old lady died, I thought "please, take me with you."

I'd never seen the stage production, so maybe that's better?

OMG I could barely get through those free first 8 minutes on offer. It was terrible. Not for me.

Is this movie at all gay-themed??

[quote]Wonderful entertainment. Netflop must be seething with jealousy since all their shows are shit.

They would be, if it were making money. But it's a HUGE flop.

It's a colored movie !!!

Lin is sorry.

This is free on HBO Max?

Hey Lin, apologize all you want, but black people aren't going to see your movie. All you did was to give permission for every fucking SJW to post something on social media complaining about black representation in every project from now on.

Afro-Latinos really have it bad, and from their own people.

Black Latinos ARE Latinos. Fully

"Black Latinos ARE Latinos. Fully"

But, what if they identify as Swedish?

The blacks hate it when Latinos take away the spotlight. The whites are too afraid Latinos are going to take over.

Both groups will become irrelevant eventually.

[quote] Afro-Latinos really have it bad, and from their own people.

Right. Blacks look down on them as they see their numbers grow.

You mean blacks can be racist?

r97=Marcus Samuelsson

R98 Can’t they just have a highly climactic dance off to settle this once and for all?

Admittedly not reading the comments above, but I wanted to say I began watching the 8-minute preview on YouTube and as soon as the girl clung to the chain link fence and said, "I want to hear my neighbourhood"...I turned off the preview. I'm the terrible gay who hates musicals, anyway. (They're the most expensive naps I've taken whilst in NYC.) As soon as that bitch said that, I was like, "Nope...not today, Satan."

Shocking, however, that Saint Miranda has put out an apology for not featuring enough dark skinned people in the movie. I thought he was perfect and made no mistakes! No EGOT for you, LMM.

What's the tea on Corey Hawkins? Any noteworthy story or insight? Who's his boyfriend?

I really enjoyed it, actually, but I had a lot of trouble following the story. Which is ironic, since there's so little story.

I was enjoyable and fun. I enjoyed it as a New Yorker and someone who is Hispanic. Fun times. Not the genius that is Hamilton but I had fun.

r55, woman interviewing is full of shit. Nina was afro-latina and so is Daphne Rubin Vega. Stop trying to exclude the Triguena. There were plenty of shades in the movie. Fuck this shit.

Are there folks getting mad for lack of trans rep too?

You can't make everyone happy so I wish Lin would have just not responded.

West Side Story with Spielberg is coming out and he tried to cast latinos but surely they will not be dark enough.

.

That's one of the huge drawbacks of social media - an endless feedback loop from folks with axes to grind.

Remember South Park's Christmas special, where everyone was offended by the school Xmas pageant, that it became a bland and dark grey affair composed by Phillip Glass? LOL. That's reality now.

I hate all non-Sondheim musicals, but I support the idea that people enjoy them. You just can't please everyone, but it used to be that negative Nancies didn't have a platform to derail entertainment. Now when composing a work of art, you have to put filters on everything lest you offend someone. That is beyond what anyone reasonable was asking for when looking to have good representation in art.

[quote]I was enjoyable and fun.

Not based upon your typing.

On Twitter there are hundreds of ads for the movie which is no surprise. The surprise is that “comments” are disabled. That’s unusual.

[quote]Remember South Park's Christmas special, where everyone was offended by the school Xmas pageant, that it became a bland and dark grey affair composed by Phillip Glass? LOL. That's reality now.

Haha, I think about that ALL the time when these issues come up these days. I feel like that scene is more relevant now than it was at the time they did it.

Where is the green representation?

I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually watched this would feel like they wanted to be in it.

Self-righteous SJWs, all of them. Go out, make something of YOURSELF. If you need an Afro-Latino musical - write one.

"Self-righteous SJWs, all of them. Go out, make something of YOURSELF. If you need an Afro-Latino musical - write one."

SJWs don't want to do anything themselves - they are the laziest people on earth. All they want is to criticize so that others will change to what the SJWs want. More people should just stand up to them and tell them to fuck off. Those people will get tons of support....from liberals.

[quote] I was enjoyable and fun.

Do tell us more, R106. Add pics too.

Wait until the West Side Story reboot hits the theatre. It will be a big turd as well.

[quote]Where is the green representation?

Kermit's asking price was too high.

Was there any Asian-Latinos in this movie? You know they are out there. Wasn’t the lead girl a black Latina?

We used to talk about talent when discussing musicals. Then, the SJWs arrived.

Washington Heights is a real place. People from there are upset at not seeing themselves represented.

[quote] Everyone in the universe seems to think this is the best (fill in the blank) known to mankind.

Monday, June 14, 2021 Blind Item #10

Last week I told you that you can't always trust a certain movie review site because it is owned by a movie studio. Well, it looks like that movie studio is also offering podcasters cash and other incentives to say amazing things about a certain movie.

[quote] West Side Story with Spielberg is coming out and he tried to cast latinos but surely they will not be dark enough.

Spielberg covered that base by casting an Afro-Latino actress as Anita. So one of the leads went to a half black, half Latino performer.

Black twitter is bitching there aren't black Latinos in it. Did Latinos complain all the black movies don't cast them? FFS. Black people are 13% of the population but apparently have to be 60% of every cast.

I ask again, are there any LGBT characters at all in this film?

[quote]Black twitter is bitching there aren't black Latinos in it. Did Latinos complain all the black movies don't cast them? FFS. Black people are 13% of the population but apparently have to be 60% of every cast.

First, it's black Latinos (Afro-Latinos) complaining, so it's an argument within the Latino community. They use their neighborhood and their music but try to erase them? Good for them.

The good thing is that no one outside of New York cares.

R126, I thought I saw a trans woman or two, and some same-sex dancing partners. All background characters without lines.

Are there gay characters?

Washington Heights?

It’s definitely black Twitter complaining but their outrage is not genuine at all. They are only using Afro Latinos to tank the film. Wait till this is all over and watch how they revert to trashing black Latinos once again.

Afro-Latin Twitter are the ones complaining about colorism, and alt-right Twitter is triggered

None of them are dark enough, it’s insulting to the community, I don’t want to sleep with any of them, blah blah blah. We need better storytellers.

It's Afro-Latino Twitter complaining and naturally, black Twitter has their back. But let's not overlook the real enemy, the white hegemony, never missing an opportunity to insert themselves into an intracranial discussion and using good old divide and conquer to drive a wedge through minorities. So far, I've seen posts from white DLers fanning hate flames between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans, Afro-Latinos and other Latinos, and Afro-Latinos and African Americans. You people are incorrigible.

Is colorism the new POC?

I started watching it (gave up after about twenty minutes) and my problem with it is that’s it’s a musical by virtue of everyone singing EVERYTHING they’re doing. It’s basically an operetta. I found the effect annoying.

I find that annoying in musicals too, R137, and generally I'm a big fan of them. But the "sing every line" thing can be so easily done badly. This is why Rent is such a terrible musical in my opinion. Those singing answering machine scenes just make you cringe.

It’s a piece of shit.

It's not a piece of shit. It's not Shakespeare either. It's nice, fluffy entertainment. My only gripe: It's too long. The story isn't that complicated or profound to require that much time. And the music wasn't memorable or catchy enough to engage me for that long. I appreciate what the musical is trying to do, but it could have accomplished that in shorter amount of time. That's not a specific opinion about this movie, more about most movies and musicals over two hours.

IMO the classic book musical is the only kind that works on screen. The endless singing of these neo-operettas works onstage because of the general surrealist/escapist nature of theater, but it in movies you want the breathing space that traditional spoken dialogue provides. For this reason I suspect West Side Story will be considerable more successful with mainstream audiences.

This looks way too “woke” from the previews. No way I will waste my time on this. I’m so, so tired of political agendas being projected through “art.” Can’t we separate the two? It doesn’t seem so anymore.

[quote] I’m so, so tired of political agendas being projected through “art.”

Just wait til you see the political jingoistic screed that is the St Crispin’s Day speech in Henry V, r142. Pro-government, pro-war, pro-England, anti-Europe, the fat guy is shunned and the boy king calls himself “Harry” to boot. I don’t know who Shakespeare thought he was. You’d think he was sucking up to the monarch.

What is Afro-Latino Twitter? What is Black Twitter? This Puerto Rican wants to know. Never heard of this shit.

I’m so glad this crap flopped . It’s going to be fun watching LMM and the other bloodsucker producers try and spin this one ! Took them down a few pegs .

Black Latinos are most certainly NOT just 13% of the Washington Heights neighborhood, R125, you fucking moron.

[quote] I’m so, so tired of political agendas being projected through “art.”

Must be fun to be in the entertainment industry nowadays. Navigating between this statement and the omni-present cancel culture must make it really enticing to write, act, direct or produce these days. And even if you don't get the brunt of a dozen interest groups you can still get shunned for life in twenty years if you don't anticipate future sensitivities. (Looking at you my poor Friends from New York)

A team of lawyers approve every joke & utterance

R147, are you posting from North Korea?

I don’t know what movie r137 and r138 saw, but ITH is not a sing-through musical. There are long stretches of dialogue scenes.

r150, I know. They didn't watch it. They just want to come over and pan everything.

Is there any white representation at all?

"It's Afro-Latino Twitter complaining and naturally, black Twitter has their back. But let's not overlook the real enemy, the white hegemony, never missing an opportunity to insert themselves into an intracranial discussion and using good old divide and conquer to drive a wedge through minorities. So far, I've seen posts from white DLers fanning hate flames between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans, Afro-Latinos and other Latinos, and Afro-Latinos and African Americans. You people are incorrigible.'

And you are exhausting.

This won’t be commercially successful. It’s too niche to be enjoyed by the mainstream population.

Are there a lot of homosexuals in the leading roles?

R155 - no but there’s a ton of “POC.”

"Does no one care what I, a Puerto Rican woman of colour, think? It's all about me, me, me...and me reuniting Bennifer again this summer! I'M THE AUTHORITY ON WHAT PUERTO RICANS THINK, BITCHES!"

68% of the Latino population of the US is Mexican and doesn't give a shit what black twitter wants.

My review:

- yes, too long, they could've cut half an hour

- no particularly memorable songs

- the four leads were very good, particularly Nina and Benny

- the big production numbers in the streets and the municipal pool were fun

- not a great movie, but the perfect thing to see following a lockdown and pandemic

And it’s no more woke than “It’s a Small World.” Deep this movie ain’t.

I really liked it - and think it was an important story of immigrant life. It felt very true to life of NYC Latino populations. There were a lot of important messages and stories - and perspectives or stories that have never been told before.

That being said - I think a couple of scenes could have been cut. I know it's a musical but some of the last songs felt forced and unnecessary.

I understand the criticism - the photo below is more representative of the shades of Dominican people. However, he didn't have just Dominicans - he represented many Latino communities. And he had an afro-latina as one of the leads.

Also, there is quite a bit of Spanglish in the film, which is fine as many Americans know enough Spanish words to understand it - particularly if you've lived in big cities. New Yorkers especially. However, many Americans in middle America or suburbs do not and they will be lost.

For example, Alza La Bandera - La Bandera Dominca! Alza La Bandera - La Bandera Mexicana! If you don't know that bandera means flag and they're going through the flags of the different communities - it's just lost.

Also, it's very NYC centric, which was no issue on Broadway. But do non-New Yorkers understand when she sings that she used to think Washington Heights was the top of the world? Unless you know the neighborhoods of Manhattan, this would also draw a blank.

3 or 3.5 stars out of 4 for me. Do I think it's going to be as popular as Hamilton? Nope - because, for some Americans, it's too Latino and New Yorkish to relate to. But I thought it was great - not excellent - but great.

The film is typical of movie musicals made by directors who are more in tune with a knowledge of film than with real life. Almost every musical number is way overstaged and overedited. Honestly, if I was a dancer, I would be disappointed that after all the work and rehearsals you can barely see what any group of dancers is doing because you get 2 seconds of this group and 2 seconds of another, and so on. It's all choppy in an attempt to create artificial energy through editing, which is sad because there's no need to do this. The pool number was ridiculous and most of the cast looked silly doing it.

But ever since music videos and movies like MOULIN ROUGE, it's all rapid cutting for its own sake, not because it's needed. I wonder if the Spielberg WEST SIDE STORY will be like that too. The 1961 film is a model of how you stage great dance numbers for the camera, at least those numbers that Jerome Robbins directed. But he's a choreographer as well.

Marry Me, R143.

What does Afro-Latino mean, anyway? People who are mixed latin and black? Or specifically Dominican NYers?

What's the difference between "Afro-Latino" and "Blatino?" Can there be an Afro-Latino Husbear?

It means they're Latinos with Afro hairdos, Rose.

R164 - there are a lot of Latinos with African heritage, hence the wide range of colors and hair types. Dominicans are on the same island as Haitians, so they are naturally much more African heritage than mestizo/Latino. Puerto Ricans and Cubans also have large, predominantly African communities.

However, shade discrimination is very much a thing in the Latino community as it is (or used to be) in the Black community and Asian community.

Many Americans are only familiar with Mexicans as being their standard of what is considered Latino - they've never seen black people (Afro-Latinos) speak Spanish before and don't know it's an actual thing.

Blatino is typically half African American and half Latino. Afro-Latino is 100% Latino but with darker skin colors and who look more African than their Latino counterparts.

Thanks R167. So the issue raised by Black Twitter, which LMM is copping to, is simply a matter of skin color. They wanted some Latin folks who had darker skin, as a better representation of actual Washington Heights?

If so, is that true that this neighborhood does heavily feature Afro-Latino people in reality?

I have a friend who's 100% Mexican (born and raised there) and could easily pass for black.

R169 - there were black communities in Mexico, but many of them 'disappeared' through mixed marriage. However, there are still some pockets of undeniably African Mexicans.

R168 - I think the main issue is the main character who is supposedly Dominican, but is played by a lighter skinned Puerto Rican with freckles. And Wash Hts has a very large Dominican population, but it always had a large Cuban and Puerto Rican population as well - plus other Latino populations.

So I think the issue people have is with the main character but also in the street scenes where there are relatively few darker skinned Latinos - but there are some. The problem is - this isn't a Dominican story, it's a pan-Latino experience.

The other issue is that in the play, originally there was tension with the father of the dispatch agency not wanting his daughter to date a black man. That was taken out and it seems now like there's no Latino/American Black tension, which isn't true either.

Lin-Manuel seems to have included everyone in my opinion - but it's never going to be enough for some people.

All of the black this and black that is exhausting. Judge the film on its merits.

It's been mentioned before, any Gay characters...any hot man on man Gay action, Okay then, BTW Love the "South Park Xmas special" with music by Philip Glass. Like the song says " you can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself"

Drugs are bad, R172.

Have gays been erasured once again?

Everything doesn't have to be gay

No, everything doesn't have to be gay, R175, you are right.

I posed the original question because (a) I was just curious why DL is talking about this in the first place - my guess is just because it's a musical, and nothing to do with any gay themes, that's ok, just wanted to know, and (b) the Frameline Film Fest this year (a gay film fest in SF) is actually featuring this film in its main programming this summer. There is zero reason for them to be doing so, and now I'm infuriated. LOL.

R150/R151, I never said I saw the film, and I have no interest in panning it. I merely agreed that I find sung-through musicals hard to take.

I do find it weird that people out there are dismissing this film as "woke", based on nothing but a film about a predominantly non-white neighbourhood having predominantly non-white characters. I don't see what's "woke" about that, and it says a lot more about the people criticising it that that's where their mind immediately goes on not seeing white people.

R175 Everything doesn’t have to BE gay. But honest representation would include gays.

Latinos are colorists and spend 24/7 obsessing over race and light skin vs dark skin. It’s a serious self-hate issue they have with themselves. So I’m not surprised Black Latinos were ignored during the casting.

Wow, r179, are you God? How come you know what all Latinos think?

R180 Because they constantly talk about it.

[quote]I've seen posts from white DLers fanning hate flames between Dominicans and Puerto Rican’s

We don’t need to fan any flames, there’s plenty antipathy there already.

R138, thank you. I agree completely, and thought I was the only one who felt that way. IMO, that's a HUGE reason why these may work on stage, but not on film. This isn't 1937, and even then, they didn't sing throughout the ENTIRE picture.

The people calling this an operetta have clearly never seen one.

Nobody will be talking about this train wreck in 90 days. What a piece of crap that has such a narrow audience.

In ten years, A Quiet Place will not be much remembered. But ITH will be watched and rewatched.

When you look at the box office lists of past years, it is funny how often the number one movies are forgotten while those further down the list remain current.

ITH is the kind of film families watch together repeatedly. It may not be great, but it hits the right notes.

[quote]Latinos are colorists and spend 24/7 obsessing over race and light skin vs dark skin. It’s a serious self-hate issue they have with themselves.

It really is a big issue:

[quote][bold]Blanqueamiento,[/bold] or whitening, is a social, political, and economic practice used to "improve" the race[bold] (mejorar la raza)[/bold] towards whiteness.[6] The term blanqueamiento is rooted in Latin America and is used more or less synonymous with racial whitening. However, blanqueamiento can be considered in both the symbolic and biological sense Symbolically, blanqueamiento represents an ideology that emerged from legacies of European colonialism, described by Anibal Quijano's theory of coloniality of power, which caters to white dominance in social hierarchies [8] Biologically, blanqueamiento is the process of whitening by marrying a lighter skinned individual in order to produce lighter-skinned offspring.

[quote]Blanqueamiento was enacted in national policies of many Latin American countries, particularly Brazil, Venezuela and Cuba, at the turn of the 20th century. In most cases, these policies promoted European immigration as a means to whiten the population.

The presidents and ruling classes in all of Latin America (except Bolivia) are white. Mexico and Venezuela are majority mestizo countries, but you wouldn't think it from watching their telenovelas.

^ Link

Sammy Sosa owns this thread

I don’t understand why people are making such a big deal out of “not enough black Latino representation” in this production. How much of a percentage of the market could this demographic possible make up? It’s way less than one percent! People are arguing over a non issue!

I kind of wondered about this. I thought the whole reason Rush Limbaugh went to the Dominican Republic for his underage boy sex fix was he could get Black kids there.

I wonder what a and his x27 sock puppet accounts think about 'ITH'. After all, he's allegedly the only native NY'er in a sea of white transplants (who won't sleep with him when he hits on them at Starbucks).

(Disclaimer: I might've seen his opinions above had I not blocked every fucking, fake account of his I've come across. Bye, bitch!)

r190, I think there are two very basic internet facts that get easily overlooked: "The internet" loves hyperbole. Posters do not want to be ignored in the wide sea of opinions. Everybody is screeching because voicing just an ordinary and common opinion doesn't get you recognized and appreciated. So if you don't say anything outrageous, you are not being noticed.

And 'people' probably don't make a big deal out of things. It's probably just a very minor number of loudmouths 'who will not be ignored'. The vast majority, 95%?, probably read and move on, possibly nodding in agreement or rolling their eyes. In the end all this internet chatter about these very-special niche opinions are maybe just made up by 10% of posters and 2% of overall population. (That isn't saying that they don't impact perception and public opinion. I just don't believe that all outrage deserves equal recognition.)

They definitely do NOT sing every word in this production. What are you guys talking about?

And agreed - there are a few Twitter keyboard warriors who make a topic trending and then, on queue, the media is all over it and creates a story.

Then they shit all over Rita Moreno, Lin Manuel Miranda, and anything else they can criticize because it doesn't fit their worldview. They're hung up on how light skinned the Dominican main character is - but overlook the other characters and the fact that this is a pan-Latino musical.

I hate what a vocal minority can do on social media - it's really annoying that everyone pays attention to this shit.

Are there Boiled Elf Latinos?

Oh c'mon. It was a fun post-covid film. Schmaltzy and a fine way to spend an evening. There did seem to be a lesbian couple but you could blink and miss that fact. The lack of Afro-Latino representation seems like such an unforced error -- even the Corey Hawkins character could have been AfroLatino (as opposed to African American non-Latino) and then all would likely have been forgiven.

Just lighten up (!) and watch it.

R190, by that logic, why not make a movie that takes place in Tokyo with a white cast? If anyone complains about lack of Asian faces in the film it is a non-issue since the Asian demographic for film audiences is so small.

It was an hour too long and had no catchy tunes. For once, I'd like to see one of these modern musicals have a song of the caliber of "Some Enchanted Evening" or "If They Could See Me Now".

And then, dawn 🌅 broke and Pan Latinos emerged in a mesmerizing triumphant dance 💃🏽 of unification....

R198 - you only know those songs due to repeat. There are some catchy songs, you just need to hear it some more.

No other production has wowed me like “Dear Evan Hanson.” I try to watch anything else and I can’t even get through a half hour of it. Oh, and “In the Heights” was the worst piece of crap ever (at least the 30 minutes that I forced myself to watch.)

"...by that logic, why not make a movie that takes place in Tokyo with a white cast? If anyone complains about lack of Asian faces in the film it is a non-issue since the Asian demographic for film audiences is so small."

Have you done any research before posting that nonsense?

R 197,

In markets like Japan, China and Australia, where coronavirus cases have dropped significantly, analysts and operators are seeing box offices recover and thrive.

The global box office shrunk 70% in 2020, falling to $12.4 billion.

Asia Pacific accounted for 51% of that total haul.

Since August, when the majority of theaters globally were reopened, Asia Pacific has accounted for nearly 78% of the total box office worldwide.

[quote]No other production has wowed me like “Dear Evan Hanson.”

How embarrassing for you.

They spoke about it on The View. It may not be satisfactory to a lot of people, but I think Whoopi has a point, fairly or not the best way to deal with this is for people who are not seeing what they want to get busy writing and creating stuff that reflects better what they want to see, not just wait for others to do it.

I did, which is why I'm being rightly hailed as a genius.

Miranda should say, "There's room for everyone. Make your own movie."

R194..."because it doesn't fit their worldview."

Uh, newsflash, it doesn't fit the NEIGHBORHOOD it's supposed to represent.

Schmaltzy R196? Seriously? Sorry, but rap will never be described as schmaltzy.

R208 - but it does represent the neighborhood. Lin-Manuel wrote this FOR HIMSELF and grew up in Washington Heights. He was the lead in the musical on Broadway.

Now, was Lin Manuel an authentic representation to play a Dominican? Nobody talks about that. He's Puerto Rican - the same as the actor in the film production.

Just because WashHts is now more Dominican than before doesn't mean there wasn't large Puerto Rican and Cuban populations also there.

I think it's funny that all these people talking about how they know Washington Heights so much just ignore the fact that Lin Manuel Miranda GREW UP THERE, albeit in Inwood. Maybe it doesn't reflect the same composition of the 80's and 90's when he grew up - but this is his story and his play.

His major mistake was writing the main character as Dominican. But that was probably intentional because if he drew that person as Puerto Rican, then there would be all of these comparisons to West Side Story.

And not all Dominicans are darker skinned - here's Eduardo Renta, a Dominican actor. Imagine if he had cast HIM? And he had other Dominicans in the film, like Dascha Polanco.

"Lin Manuel Miranda GREW UP THERE [in Washington Heights], albeit in Inwood." That is like saying "Orchard Street is in Chinatown, albeit the Lower East Side."

R210, Miranda was not raised in Washington Heights at all. He was raised in Inwood in an upper middle class family and went to prep school with Chris Hayes. Inwood is very different from Washington Heights.

I like In the Heights, but this presentation of Miranda as a barrio boy is simply not true.

This is a film and a controversy best left to New Yorkers. No one else really cares about the situation. But, since New Yorkers are pretty much the only people who will see this film, that's only right.

R211 - Inwood is 74% Latino, it isn't THAT different than Washington Heights and is just north of it. He was a barrio boy in terms of where he lived and how he was perceived in Manhattan in the 80s and 90s. So he went to good schools? That doesn't mean he didn't interact with the people in his neighborhood or the larger Latino community.

Spike Lee's mom was a teacher (private school) and his father was a composer and jazz musician. His father and grandfather graduated from Morehouse College, where Spike also attended and he got an MFA from NYU. Spike never lived in Bed-Sty in Brooklyn, yet that's where he chose to place many of his film projects. He would also not be considered a 'ghetto' black person by other people's standards, but he would beg to differ with you in terms of how he was treated and how he felt.

That argument is just ridiculous.

I was not making an argument, but rather correcting a misconception.

I grew up in Washington Heights and my family moved to Inwood when I was 13 years old. They are very different places. Not all predominantly Latino neighborhoods are the same. The strong Afro-Latino presence in Washington Heights and the economic demographics make it different.

It is a common thing among black and latino writers from middle and upper class backgrounds to try to claim a more impoverished background in the belief it gives them more credibility. And it is the story that white people want to hear.

R214=our beloved/hated a. Case closed.

I just don’t see the whole point of this production. Why not appeal to a broader audience? I would love to watch a production possibly called “San Francisco Days and Nights,” based on a group of 1990s-2000s San Francisco residents and their lives. (A more modern “Tales of the City” if you will).

"It is a common thing among black and latino writers from middle and upper class backgrounds to try to claim a more impoverished background in the belief it gives them more credibility. And it is the story that white people want to hear."

Oh yeah - 1000%. But most lower-socio economic individuals in those communities don't get the chance or opportunity to write or relay those experiences.

I don't know if it is necessarily 'what white people want to hear' - as more of it reflects the larger majority of the people they're writing about. There's more tension and conflict than middle class kids who don't get into their university of choice or having problems finding an affordable larger home for their growing family. It's not some white conspiracy.

They're exploring this more now with Black-ish and other shows, but those are still comedies.

"I just don’t see the whole point of this production. Why not appeal to a broader audience?"

The show is semi-autobiographical. Producers thought it would take advantage of the public's return to the theaters, LMM's popularity with Hamilton, Latin music, and the total emphasis on diversity. Publicity for this film was huge, but failed to realize that, outside of New York, people really don't care about life in Washington Heights. Also, the benefits of diversity extend to only one minority.

R218 - nonsense. The Latino population in the US has grown from 9 million in 1970 to 60 million in 2020.

Most US Latino families can relate to this story in some sense - immigrating to another country, feeling different, different language, being in a tight-knit community but then try to reach out and move up and out of the community.

The money from this project won't be from the original box office - it will make sales for a long time to come, and also in other Latino countries. It will eventually be profitable.

Yeah the box office receipts are low - but the pandemic plus releasing it streaming at the same time doesn't seem to be the greatest idea either.

This production is shit. I’m just surprised it received enough publicity for us to be discussing it on this forum. What investors with money are behind this? Possibly a political agenda.

[quote]Then they shit all over Rita Moreno

Pics please.

R220 found the racist

Anybody with half a brain would understand how and why this was greenlit and funded. And, by the way, interest in making this as film started TEN years ago, far before Hamilton was on stage.

R220 - what would you consider 'genius' then? What standard should we look up to for comparison?

Rita Moreno walks back remarks she made about the movie on Colbert:

[quote]“I’m incredibly disappointed with myself. While making a statement in defense of Lin-Manuel Miranda on the Colbert Show last night, I was clearly dismissive of black lives that matter in our Latin community. It is so easy to forget how celebration for some is lament for others. In addition to applauding Lin for his wonderful movie version of In the Heights, let me add my appreciation for his sensitivity and resolve to be more inclusive of the Afro-Latino community going forward. See, you CAN teach this old dog new tricks.”

This controversy has really hurt its box office.

I don't why why she was on Colbert but it must be annoying for every prominent Latin person to be the spokesperson for the issue du jour. I disagreed with her previous overall statement but "See, you CAN teach this old dog new tricks" is adorable.

R218, ITH is NOT semi-autobiographical. Miranda has been very clear about this.

But like Alice Childress pointed out decades ago, in Trouble in Mind, white people like to imagine that minority artists are just being themselves telling their own life stories.

It's da BOMB!

R214 Don’t beat around my bush!!

[quote] But let's not overlook the real enemy, the white hegemony, never missing an opportunity to insert themselves into an intracranial discussion and using good old divide and conquer to drive a wedge through minorities.

Sounds to me like you're inserting white people into the conversation. White people don't need to divide groups who divide themselves. In fact, most white people can't tell the difference among the various ethnicities and don't care.

My main problem with this film was the speak singing. Most times I couldn't tell when a particular song ended and another began. When I left, I only remembered two of the songs, and both were the most Latin sounding.

[quote]intracranial discussion

Pics please.

In the Heights failed because audiences want a typical book musical with memorable, hummable songs, and movie stars. It has to have BOTH. Remember how Nine was filled with a A list cast but still flopped because of the dreary, unmemoreable music.

Not great opening weekend box office for a film with a $55 million budget, but these aren't exactly normal times. I agree it'll find its audience. Nobody gives a flying fuck about the "controversy" except the usual right wing shit-stirrers.

I enjoyed the dancing...fantastic. Very visual movie. There were small storylines...all good. It is a joyous movie. Pretty long, though...otherwise, I liked it. I would watch it again. Watch through the ending credits..a cute little twist.

"Nobody gives a flying fuck about the "controversy" except the usual right wing shit-stirrers."

Sorry, but it's the SJWs who caused the cancel culture controversy and they are certainly left wingers.

I listened to Anthony Ramos' interview on Fresh Air. He is sexy and really good in this musical, but I was disappointed how little profound things he had to say. Usually Terri Gross can tickle something interesting out of everybody. But this interview didn't rise above Jimmy Fallon level. His constant 'ya know what I'm sayin' didn't help either.

In the Red has been out grossed by Peter Rabbit 2!

I actually enjoyed the story of this movie more than I did the music. I'm not Latino but I had thought of leaving my home because I thought I could find happiness by being part of a larger culture. I studied my heritage, learned another language, but in the end decided that I was happier in the US. However, me wanting to go somewhere had nothing to do with racism, as this movie implies, but I felt that the struggle for identity was a real one for ethnic Americans.

R236, I really disagree. Actor interviews on Fresh Air are usually pretty dull, but Ramos was a lot more interesting than most.

The only disappointment was they did not discuss much his performance on In Treatment. The intelligence and depth of that performance is one of the best television performances of the last few years (even though the show was not great).

R239, I'm glad you enjoyed the interview. Maybe I wasn't in the right space to fully appreciate it.

How did they stag the awesome set piece where Rita and Leon were dancing on the side of the building on Broadway? Did audiences gasp in wonder?

R233 Except it also disappointed on HBO Max too

r218, the blacklash from people that didn't even see it destroyed the films chances for success. I saw it on HBO Max and intend to see it again in the theatre just to show support.

r233, the left canceled it. We eat our own. That is very disappointing. It's an incredible step forward in inclusive filmmaking but you can't make everyone happy and those loud but minor voices, did I say very loud, fucked it up.

I'm not surprised it bombed. There's no plot, the songs are unmemorable, the cast is made up of no names and it's an hour too long.

It's hard to call it a bomb. People don't go to the movies. I haven't seen a movie in the theatre in about 15 months.

I was looking for a chance to go to support and there were people who pre-reserved seats already in the theatres, so nothing is really going to fill theaters like before.

Given the backlash happened after it was released, you can hardly blame the poor opening weekend on that.

R246 Once again though, it underperformed on HBO Max as well as in cinemas.

R246, you win Lamest Comment of the Thread.

I loved it. I have an AMC A-List subscription so I saw it again tonight with a friend who hadn't seen it.

It's captivating audiences all over the nation!

I am Latino, and I really wanted to like this movie, and I really didn't like it.

I was going to write out this long, detailed explanation of everything I think is wrong with it, but then I remembered this is Datalounge, so basically...

There is no story, the music is terrible, it's inauthentic AF, it's waaaaaay too long, and it's just plain boring.

You know how George Lopez does a standup special and he walks onstage and always says something like "Orale, putos!!!" and the crowd just goes CRAZY, as if that's just the FUNNIEST THING EVER? There is nothing particularly funny about that phrase, it's just a cultural touchstone for the audience to grab onto and go "hey, I know that phrase! My dad/abuelo/neighbor/best friend/whoever says that all the time!!! OMG, that's so cool that he's up there saying that, ja ja ja ja ja!!!"

Well, "In the Heights" is basically 2 and a half hours of "Orale, putos!!!"

WHAAAAAAT? ^^^

r251, in what ways did you find it inauthentic? I'd like to know. Include that list because this Hispanic saw it on HBO Max and also in the theatre and may go back and see it again, I enjoyed it that much. Much more so in the theatre. I am from New York and of Puerto Rican and Cuban decent. I have never heard "Orale, putos!!! from Lopez nor do I get your reference. He is not someone who I watch.

The songs are Tony award winning songs. Except Home all Summer which was a new song for the film which was pretty enjoyable. The music is infectious.

Great numbers "When you're home," the subway scene with "Paciencia y fe" was one of the best things I have seen in a long time, "Benny's dispatch", "Carnival de Barrio", "In the Heights", "Blackout" (we are powerless) and "96,000" was incredible in the film. All these were amazing. Other songs like "Breathe" and "When the song goes down" were nice too.

We all know that latinos are very diverse and R151, I don't know your background but it seemed very authentic to me, maybe it was being from New York and of Caribbean origin that it spoke to. Even the Piragua guy and his battle with Mr. Softie brought back memories of being a kid.

Wow, someone can't cope with people having differing opinions from himself.

“So”, gringo no-go?

R253 So.Fake.

Fantastic!

r256, here you go

I don't agree with their top picks but my number 1 is "Paciencia y fe"

Those who don't have HBO Max take a peek and maybe see if you like any of the songs.

oh r258 is r253. What is fake?

Ignore, R256, R253/r258. I loved In the Heights too and greatly enjoyed every song. I also loved Hamilton. For some reason, these Tony Award winning shows aren't good enough for some bitches here.

Only " Follies" is good enough for them, R 260.

Follies lost r261.

R258, I gave it a try, but couldn't get past about 10-12 minutes into the clip. All the songs basically sounded alike -- or specifically, too similar to each other -- and the lip synching was just embarrassing, especially during the gimmicky scene where they're dancing up the side of the building.

r263, skip the beginning then. Until you get to songs 15 and up they are mostly the ones in that play that were cut from the movie.

The clip is every song ranked not the top 10, So you are catching the not so good ones in the beginning. Start exactly at 12 minutes in with #15

Uh, this thread is about the MOVIE, not the play R264, 265. Did you ever stop to think that the reason they left them out of the film is because they sucked even more than the ones that made the cut?

And the box office proves that. It cost $55 mil to make and has only grossed $21 mil.

r266, that was exactly my point. And why I said to move to the middle of the clip that was posted with the top 30 songs. Yes it occurred to me why the left them out but the poster at r263 said they couldn't get past the first 10 minutes. Yes it goes from 30 to 1, meaning the better songs are at the second half of the clip I posted.

It's hard to say things are bombs. People want to say that box office sales are all that but I went to the movies 1 time this year and it was to see In The Heights. Not all seats are open either at my local AMC, some are still sectioned off as unavailable. We are not back to what movies use to be. I used to see 2-3 movies a month in the theatre, not any longer.

Well compared to F9 which made $70M on its opening weekend and a Quiet Place II whose gross so far is $136M and Cruella at $71M the $24M ITH grossed after 3 weeks is certainly not a hit. Both the Hitman's Wife's BodyGuard and Peter Rabbit 2 grossed more than ITH, 'the event of the summer"

The Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard was such a shit movie. I wish I had that time back. I got a free screening to watch at home and I hated it.

It's not a blockbuster summer action movie so it's never going to do as well as that. In the Heights would have been a slow burn and build steam, if the cancel culture hadn't stepped in and cried.

It will fair better as a whole in quality than F9 or that shitty Ryan Reynolds movie. Will be forgotten in 2022.

Boy, after all the hype, interest in this died down really quick.

Good Afternoon everyone!! Honestly, I have stopped going to movies theaters , most movies really SUCK!!!

Yeah, Americans Don’t like musicals

This could have been/should have been a very good movie! Rhyming nonsense does not a good movie make!

^ Nor does rhyming ersatz hip hop dialog make a good play. Hamilton 2hrs and 40mins with a10 intermission seemed interminable and completely tuneless.

I watched this yesterday and I can't remember ONE song from this film! I'm trying desperately but I can only hear Anthony Ramos' "Puff Daddy" style rapping. Actually, now I remember the "Look at the fireworks" song because don't they just repeat "Look at the fireworks" over and over? I don't remember the melody though.

I honestly thought the two female leads were the same person for the first half of the movie. I was like "So she doesn't want to go to Stanford because she wants to be a fashion designer....and now she works at the salon?"

Lin Manuel looked AWFUL in this. I know he was supposed to be a street vendor but he looks fat and like a hard 65.