Fauci throws shade at Astra Zeneca!

Will anyone want it?

Jesus. Fauci saying that just further removes credibility of AstraZeneca. They are all really doing their best to kill it off as a vaccine. Why?

This is very unimpressive from Fauci.

Fauci is just telegraphing to the FDA to slow walk approval of AZ. If we're ramping enough vaccine from other sources, don't bother with the headache of AZ.

R2 it’s causing severe side effects like blood clots. No one wants that junk.

That’s why the US is dumping it on Canada, and Trudeau is gladly scooping it up to cover for his disastrous mishandling of the vaccines. At least they’re not forcing it on anyone under 55.

[quote] Fauci saying that just further removes credibility of AstraZeneca. They are all really doing their best to kill it off as a vaccine. Why?

I wouldn't take AstraZeneca's vaccine. I don't like Oxford University. when trump was trying to push Hydroxychloroquine and other fucked up nonsense and disinformation about Covid, Oxford kept having scientists that proudly agreed with trump and pushing the disinformation

They also rushed the vaccine's approval in England. They approved it immediately, before they could read the clinical trial results.

England is really super competitive. The prime minister has really PUSHED and PUSHED AstraZeneca's vaccine. If any country or person expresses concerns or wanted to actually read the clinical trial results, he bashes them. He acts like he owns AstraZeneca. That makes me worry there's a problem with it

Fuck AstraZeneca, Fuck Oxford University and Fuck boris johnson. I don't want anything some shitty politician is pushing

But you’re ok if non shitty politicians push it?

R7, why on earth would you think I'd follow medical advice from any politician? Why would you even think that? Your reasoning is weird

I can actually take my own expert advice. Oxford-AstraZeneca proved themselves to be liars early on

And what do you know? They're still lying. They knew there were bad side effects and they continued to bash any and everyone that had reservations about the vaccine safety

Breaking News: Thirty cases of rare blood clot events after the use of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine have been identified by regulators, That's 25 more than the agency previously reported

On Friday, the medicine regulator said that seven (7) recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine have died after registering the rare blood clotting events

I wonder what else other side effects they "forgot" to mention?

Could it be those 5 cases of brain blood clots they casually mentioned on March 18?

Or could it be those 22 reports of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (brain blood clot) they mentioned on April 1 ?

What other side effects have they forgotten?

Omg I had my first AZ shot! Should I take the second? Should I start giving away my stuff?

Yesterday I walked all over the city with my roommate. We are both scheduled for the vaccine at a local military hospital here that has Pfizer but the nurses told us that there are 40 vaccines done per day and over 600 people ahead of us. The rest of the centers with open spots ALL had Astra Zeneca so we didn't get it. Literally, the vaccines are laying around because nobody wants them, even in Romania, after hearing about the blood clotting cases and bans all over northern Europe.

Funny thing was a fellow in the farmer's market told us: "If the Americans who put a man on the moon and the Nordics don't want 'em, we're waiting for the 'civilized people vaccine'". It was hilarious but sad at the same time.

I rather take Sinovac

[quote]Yesterday I walked all over the city with my roommate. We are both scheduled for the vaccine at a local military hospital here that has Pfizer but the nurses told us that there are 40 vaccines done per day and over 600 people ahead of us. The rest of the centers with open spots ALL had Astra Zeneca so we didn't get it. Literally, the vaccines are laying around because nobody wants them, even in Romania, after hearing about the blood clotting cases and bans all over northern Europe.

Gonna be a long wait hun xx

I'm supposed to have my first shot of AstraZeneca vaccine on Monday at 4.5 pm and I don't know what to do frankly. Fuck.

You get blood clot if you smoke or are obese

The Novavax vaccine is looking pretty promising and without Astra Zeneca side effect problems thus far. So see I why they're writing AZ off. We have three good vaccines already and it looks like Novavax will probably be approved in the coming months as well, if everything continues to go smoothly.

You don’t really know the side effects until the vaccine is rolled out

[quote] I'm supposed to have my first shot of AstraZeneca vaccine on Monday at 4.5 pm and I don't know what to do frankly. Fuck.

I've criticized the vaccine, but you'll be alright getting it. tens of Millions have gotten it and been okay

I just hate the smug, competitive brits. Automatically approving the vaccine and bashing anyone who dares to question it. They've always got their nose in everyone else's business. Their idiotic leader (just as stupid as trump) just needs to STFU and worry about his own shitty country

Isn’t this really a matter of the US having more than enough vaccine supply without the AZ version? Of course the US demand for the (not yet FDA approved) vaccine diminishes. This is a pretty realistic and expected outcome.

Sucks for AZ, but they should focus on obtaining FDA approval (to help restore trust) and meeting their original distribution goals to other markets.

R12 - so true. It will be a far longer time before a return to at least a mild semblance of normal life than we expected. The rate here is 7,65 and the Kent variant is predominant. The city I am in has a low mortality rate because it is a very young population. However, having severe asthma, my dentist here (a woman I have kept in touch with despite not going since the pandemic started) says I should be able to qualify as "pre-existing condition" and maybe move up the line. I hate to do that though.

Just take aspirin after the shot to prevent blood clot. Easy.

R18, read the article at OP's link. Novavax hasn't even completed its US trials yet, so won't be used for this round of vaccinations, for which the US has enough Pfizer, Moderna and J&J. Fauci is talking about using Novavax in the future as a booster shot. He's totally shading AZ by saying the US won't even use the AstraZeneca as a booster shot in the future.

[quote]Asked whether the United States will use the AstraZeneca vaccine doses, he said, “That’s still up in the air. My general feeling is that given the contractual relationships that we have with a number of companies, that we have enough vaccine to fulfill all of our needs without invoking AstraZeneca.”

[quote]Fauci said that “If you look at the numbers (of doses) that we’re going to be getting, the amount that you can get from J&J, from Novavax from Moderna if we contract for more, it is likely that we can handle any boost that we need, but I can’t say definitely for sure.”

Most birth control pills do increase a woman's chance of developing a blood clot by about three to four times. Yet they still take them.

I had my 1st AstraZeneca shot this past week. No side effects apart from a sore arm. Looking forward to the second shot in 8 weeks.

R23, can I have your stuff ?

Star’s whole family got Covid after Pfizer’s jab

For those who've had the AZ shot or are about to have it and are panicking, the main symptom of the (really, really rare) clotting disease is headaches around Day 4. You're still liable for them up to Day 16, but if you get past Day 4 or 5 you're probably all right. If you do happen to get a headache between Days 4 and 16, shift off to the doctor fast - unlikely to be it, but you'd want to have some tests.

Headaches the day of or after the shot are normal.

The UK has vaccinated 31 million people with AZ for the most part, so that says something.

This article from the BBC takes a look at the matter without hyberbole. I know a senior public health physician and I asked about Astra as I am now eligible and wavering and the advice he gave me was get the shot you can get... you are far, far likelier to contract COVID than you are to suffer an extreme side effect of AZ or anything else. Still, I am irrationally wavering because I feel like it won't be that much longer til I can get a Pfizer or a Moderna.

I totally get why countries are behaving as they are. The U.S. was as powerful and self-interested as ever and as expected. Britain reasserted itself domestically. The EU failed, as an institution and as a world citizen. Russia was shunned. Middle countries like Canada realized both how fucked, weak, vulnerable and friendless they are.

You knew this was going to go all us first and Lord of the Flies. No politician in any democracy could do any differently, particularly if like in the Canada and Europe they fucked up vaccine readiness to begin with.

In the end, we all took care of ourselves in this war. I wonder what, if anything, this does to the subtext of international relations because we sure didn't unite and understandably so. But what does that tell us? Where does it leave us?

With a third of the country vaccinated already he might be right

R21 I did read the article. Thinking through vaccine origins and production, it seems reasonable that the US would continue forward with domestic supply (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and eventually Novavax). Especially since the US is utilizing the Defense Production Act.

AZ has under-delivered as it is. If the US isn’t going to go into contract for more vaccine, this might help ease the supply chain so they are able to fulfill their original orders.

It is more bad press for AZ, but not necessarily shade.

I didn't think he shaded it at all. He just said there was sufficient supply of alternatives.

Based on is track record, I believe he would have said clearly if he had reservations about the safety of AZ.

I also believe he would not shade it for a bit of Yankee Doodle USA! USA! USA! fun, because he knows that would be irresponsible.

The world needs all the vaccines that work. There are rare but extreme side effects possible with virtually every medicine.

Somebody in health PR once said to me, as far as the media is concerned there are only two kinds of drugs: miracle drugs and killer drugs.

The whole AZ story is getting a bit Facebooky, with a dose of media needing a clicky headline.

The US ordered 500 million doses of AZ and invested $1.2 billion in it. The AstraZeneca vaccine was going to form the bedrock of the US's vaccination programme.

AZ desperately wants the US to use its vaccine and wants a US endorsement. The US isn't going to use the AZ vaccine, not now and not in the future. The US will probably use all the other vaccines it ordered, however, even the Novavax in the future, which hasn't even completed its US trial and is having trouble manufacturing.

Throwing shade on the AZ Vaccine is all political.

It's cheap and effective. Politicians are trying to protect their own national production.

Have it, don't have it. But the efficacy data is good.

R24 sure you can have my stuff. Post your phone number and email address here and I'll get in touch. Feel free to posts nudes too.

Should an AstraZeneca vaccine be accompanied by baby aspirins to lessen the risk of blood clots?

"Is this how we dress for the office? You look like a blood clot!"...

They should just donate the US supply to countries that cannot afford it. The goal is to get the world vaccinated, otherwise this thing isn’t going anywhere.

[Quote]I'm supposed to have my first shot of AstraZeneca vaccine on Monday at 4.5 pm

Oh dear. It seems COVID has already struck and is affecting your understanding of time.

This is a very definite misstep for the Biden Administration. Fauci is missing the bigger geo-political picture.

If we have extra vaccines, we should not be 'throwing shade on them' but rather continue to extol their proven efficacy.

THEN, the extra supply is used as a form of soft diplomacy for countries around the world that need them.

Everyone one wins. And the US can begin the climb out of that diplomatic hole that the former guy left us in.

Monday 4.05 pm R38. I left off the zero by accident.

Feel better now?

[Quote]Monday 4.05 pm [R38]. I left off the zero by accident.

^You forgot the colon too. That COVID is a nasty wench.

[quote]They should just donate the US supply to countries that cannot afford it.

The White House announced in March that is sending 2.5 million AZ doses to Mexico and 1.5 million doses to Canada from its stockpile of 7 million doses.

And you cunts were verbally abusing a poster on a different thread who kept attaching articles regarding A-Z and the terrible side effects that have been reported, calling him Boris, hoping he/she would die, basically proving that you are the perfect microcosm of easily-swayed social test subjects who go with media-guided programming.

Assholes.

Who else should we send vaccine to but our neighbors? This makes sense instead of sending it across the world, these are the most likely people to come into contact with. Besides, our economies and people are intensely intertwined.

The US paid for lots of shots from lots of companies and it will donate the shots it doesn’t need. It’s in every one’s interest to get the whole world vaccinated, but in the words of the plane announcement put your own mask on first.

[quote] Most birth control pills do increase a woman's chance of developing a blood clot by about three to four times. Yet they still take them.

what does that have to do with anything? Oh that's right. NOTHING

[quote] Oh dear. It seems COVID has already struck and is affecting your understanding of time

how cute. That poster left off one digit and you simply weren't able to realize what time he meant

Were you always like this or is a side effect from the vaccine?

^^^ No you twit, vaccinate the people close to us FIRST, fuck the rest until later.

[quote] Fauci is talking about using Novavax in the future as a booster shot. He's totally shading AZ by saying the US won't even use the AstraZeneca as a booster shot in the future

oxford university kept having their scientists go out and blab to whoever they could find to listen to them that hydroxychloroquine worked, despite fauci saying it didn't work. They had opinions on masks too

The entire pandemic was constant disinformation from them. It was really disgusting. They championed all of trump's nonsense. So did boris johnson. Decent people are repulsed by him

R49, you’re a hysteric. Calm down.

The US isn't "donating" excess AZ shots, they traded a lot of them with Canada for future Pfizer shots Canada already has on order. Good deal for Biden, bad (and typical) deal for Justin.

This virus and it's mutations are not going anywhere for the next 2 or 3 years or worse. It's already done the next worst possible thing. We have a whole new pandemic, that is more transmissible and deadly. People should take the vaccine they can get. I'd rather have AZ then Johnson or Moderna, but my mother is a doctor and I have her guidance. Pfizer is a great product. But there's not enough. And it has a weakness too.

BUT, we will ALL need further vaccinations within a year. So don't get sniffy about what is available to you. Take it, for now.

Can change over later.

The Fauci article is not much at all. The most successful country with a major COVID disaster to bring down cases through vaccination is the UK. They have used more Astrazeneca vaccine than any other.

The US manufactures The Pfizer. A very hot commodity. But it's not the end of the story.

[quote] rather have AZ then Johnson or Moderna, but my mother is a doctor and I have her guidance

Your mother is an idiot then. Moderna and Pfizer are the gold standard. Once Novavax arrives it will be lights out for AZ.

Flip flop Fauci. Dr. Fauci was the person I trusted during those disastrous Covid Taskforce briefings. Fauci has added to the politicizing of science and I wish he would just go away at this point. He contradicts himself often.

Does the Oxford vaccine have anything to do with oxford university? If so I should've thought it was of high quality. Maybe I'm wrong.

You people are Idiots. Have you ever read the accompanying document with medication? Going on about “the terrible side effects” is the AZ vaccine. The UK found like 30 people in 30M who experienced blood clots - that’s like 0.0001%. Something like 30,000 a month report cases of blood clots or thrombosis regularly completely unrelated to any vaccinations. The possibility of this is minuscule and yet you go on about how this vaccine shouldn’t be used. That’s nuts. There are always random side effects to medication. Cramping, headaches, depression, increased heart rate, constipation, bleeding, etc. Any insert with medication will tell you this. People are really stupid.

Those doses aren't a donation r42, they are a loan and the US wants the same number of doses back. This is not because the US wants to use them, but it's hedging its bets and saving these doses for later vaccine diplomacy. These doses were likely to reach their expiry date if they weren't used, so lending old doses to get newer ones back is a clever move.

[quote]It will also include the 1.5 million doses of AstraZeneca’s vaccine that will be received through a sharing deal with the United States, which is providing the doses from its domestic surplus. Canada will have to return the favour at a later date.

The US doesn't need the AstraZeneca vaccine. AstraZeneca has proven itself to be a company that cannot be trusted. It's fiddled its data, its executives have lied on various occasions, it's massively behind on its production in Europe and for Canada and elsewhere (hence the loan of AZ doses from the US) and now there is the rare blood clot problem. Using the AZ when the US already has enough Pfizer, Moderna and J&J will just create more of a headache. Novavax is also likely to be authorised in the US relatively soon, so there is another vaccine available if necessary from the second half of the year.

R43 - honey on DL if you post your Ukrainian grandmother's borscht recipe, you are "Boris". Never mind anything political.

R58, the irony is that it was a person called Boris who, for political reasons, pushed for the AstraZeneca vaccine to be released before it was ready.

[quote] Does the Oxford vaccine have anything to do with oxford university? If so I should've thought it was of high quality. Maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, it is Oxford University. And it is supposed a high quality university. But all throughout Covid, you could always find some vocal scientist/doctor was happy to go on the news and essentially say Fauci's information was wrong

trump kept touting hydroxychloroquine and 99% of the dr's in America and the rest of the world were saying it didn't work. Here's comes the losers from Oxford University saying, It did work. Study results were released from studies around the world, saying Hydroxychloroquine did not work. What does Oxford do? Starts another study. THEY WANTED TO DOUBLE DOWN ON THEIR STUPIDITY. Now all the low IQ idiots in America that vote republican believed these Oxford University professionals. Oxford thought this shit was cute.

Then they had scientists go on the news and push the narrative, that masks don't work and might make people sick

So when a university REPEATEDLY pushes medical advice from donald trump, during a deadly epidemic, they've turned basically turned into a clown college

And they're the ones who did the research on AstraZeneca's vaccine. Then we find out they really don't know how to do basic math and fucked up the math calculations regarding dosing. They left out a lot of stuff in the testing results

They're shady as fuck. I'd trust my local community college before I'd trust Oxford University for anything

my mother is a doctor

Tell the truth, you mean veterinarian, STFU.

Wow, the level of stupidity on this thread is staggering. ^

Thanks r60. Jeez. Oxford. Who knew.

R63 How dumb are you? So, someone posts a bunch of bullshit on an anonymous forum, with zero links to anything to back up their claims, and you just blindly believe it and are willing to make healthcare decisions based on that? How utterly embarrassing for you.

That’s funny. I’ve had my AZ. Who’s embarrassed now?

That doesn't change the fact you're still a moron who just believed that bullshit without asking for any kind of evidence, and all from someone with an obvious agenda.

[quote]oxford university kept having their scientists go out and blab to whoever they could find to listen to them that hydroxychloroquine worked

You keep saying this but I can't find a single example of it. All I found is that Oxford resumed a study on whether it was effective or not last July, said they were still studying it in August, then just two weeks later released part of the study saying hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin were dangerous. Less than a month after that, they said the "evidence was clear" that there was no benefit from hydroxychloroquine therapy.

They never, ever said it worked. They said, in July and August of 2020, that the evidence was still unclear, then quickly provided evidence saying it didn't work.

R63, with respect, you need to start acting smarter before you hurt yourself. You're the guy off in the cabbage thread saying cabbage either "causes or reduces blood clots, I forget which." Now here you are, blindly believing what an incredibly obvious troll is saying.

For the love of god, learn how to do a basic internet search.

I think AZ is fine and have no problem with Canadians, Mexicans, and Europeans taking it.

[quote] So, someone posts a bunch of bullshit on an anonymous forum, with zero links to anything to back up their claims, and you just blindly believe it and are willing to make healthcare decisions based on that? How utterly embarrassing for you.

You are a silly ignorant cunt, who spouts off bullshit and couldn't even be bothered to google, Oxford, hydroxychloroquine

Here comes links, you silly cunt

Here's when everyone said it didn't work. Donald trump said it worked and here's comes Oxford University, trying to prove trump right

R69 seems to be unaware that Canada and many European countries have restricted use of the AZ in under-60s or suspended its use altogether because it has been linked to rare CVST blood clots.

And here they are. fox news and all the other repug sites loved spouting this nonsense

The World Health Organization and all other credible doctors said it doesn't work. But Oxford being Oxford, just had to do it. Who cares if people die from taking a useless drug? Gotta help trump and the lunatic fringe

Oxford Clinical Trials of Hydroxychloroquine to Push Through Despite WHO's Order to Stop

There have been no cases of vaccine-induced prothrombotic immune thrombocytopenia (VIPIT) in Canada, but there have been cases in Europe, prompting Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) to recommend pausing administration of the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine to those under age 55.

The McMaster team is preparing to screen blood samples of Canadian patients who may have had VIPIT.

In the meantime, clinical hematologist Meneka Pai, among doctors involved in the McMaster testing, says she likes the idea of pausing the vaccine for "more study" into its safety.

"Ten days ago, we didn't know that this condition existed, so things are moving really fast," Pai told CBC News.

Dr. Menaka Pai, a clinical hematologist at McMaster University Menaka Pai and a member of Ontario’s COVID-19 Science Advisory Table, says 'things are moving fast' when it comes to vaccine-related findings.

"I think when things are moving so fast, just taking this brief pause [allows us to] figure out what's going on … gather more data, tighten up those estimations and continue doing surveillance in Canada to make sure we're not seeing these cases."

When a blood clot occurs, the flow of blood stops, said Pai.

"In many blood clots, it's platelets, little sticky cells — they basically turn on and they form a jam. If you get a blood clot, it stops healthy blood from flowing to the area. And it actually stops deoxygenated blood from draining, so there's a problem with flowing in and flowing out," said Pai.

"In VIPIT, what happens is that patients get the vaccine, and then it seems that four to 20 days later, their body makes a molecule called an antibody and that antibody actually attacks the person's own platelets. These platelets switch on and they get sticky. Now you have these sticky cells and they start to form clots.

"So the real key with VIPIT is there's this predisposing factor of the vaccine, and then the immune response revs up, and then four to 20 days later, we see this very dangerous antibody forming," the hematologist said.

^ To note, this rare VIPIT blood clot condition is happening only with the AstraZeneca vaccine, not all vaccines.

So then in July, after all these studies around the world came in AGAIN and said, Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work

Here comes Oxford

They're going restart their useless study. Who cares if people die?

So Aug 6, rolls around and almost every medical professional is saying, HYDROXYCHLORQUINE IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS and here comes Oxford

Hydroxychloroquine is still useful for Covid.

No Oxford, IT ISN'T. but trump still touts it and idiots on the internet see this shit from oxford and see news interviews with researchers from Oxford and they believe trump and really, really, really start to think the FDA, CDC and all the professionals are conspiring to keep people from a magical covid cure that is Hydroxychloroquine

This isn’t a thread about hydroxychloroquine.

R70 In what way is them continuing a trial which was already underway (and which ultimately proved Trump wrong) supporting Trump?

R75 Yes, they restarted their study after the data (from other researchers) which led to them suspending their study was found to be wrong. You trying to spin that as bad is beyond stupid.

R76 Idiots misunderstanding science isn't Oxford's fault. And it's hilarious you whine about that, given how you clearly don't understand how science works yourself.

Now we can see why you avoided posting links - because they don't back up your claims at all. You're just making yourself look ever increasingly stupid, all in the cause of your weird little anti-British agenda.

Then in November here comes Oxford, pushing this crazy conspiracy theory about Hydroxychloroquine. And at this point, that's exactly what it is, a conspiracy theory"

"it still might be useful"

It's NOT. It is not useful

The fucking clowns at Oxford University keep pissing away taxpayer money CHASING something, anything that will say Hydroxychloroquine works

It does Not work

R79 You keep saying Oxford like it's some singular entity. You do understand how researchers have independence right?

I think I'll trust actual scientists over some addled loon who doesn't even understand how research works.

It was unethical to keep doing studies on Hydroxychloroquine

Oxford University has a bunch of quack researchers

I wouldn't doubt it if they're doing studies on it, right at this moment

They're unethical

R81 Why would it be unethical?

You also have yet to provide a link to Oxford researchers saying hydroxychloroquine worked, like you claimed earlier.

Also, someone with your post history really shouldn't be calling other people quacks. You sound positively unhinged in this thread.

AstraZeneca charges $760 or so a month for a weekly vile of injection of the diabetic medication, Bydereon. Tripled the price in just a few years. They refuse coupons even for Medicare recipients not signed-up for part D.

[quote] Why would it be unethical?

Jesus Christ, I can't believe you need this explained to you

There are other treatments that actually work

To continue to do research on something that has been proven NOT TO WORK, is ridiculous. You know this. You're just being an asshole.

Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result

They're just pissing money away. They'd be better off taking the taxpayer's money and setting it on fire to keep the students warm. And you know that's not a lie

AF may object, in part, as to what AZ wants to charge the U.S. government for the Covid vaccine .

R84 Except it hasn't been proven not to work as a preventative. You do understand that the different trials have been about using hydroxychloroquine in different ways, right?

And even if I were to grant your premise - and to be clear I absolutely do not - even then it still wouldn't be unethical. Just unnecessary.

I am curious though as to how your mind works - so you think they're doing trials on Hydroxychloroquine that aren't needed? Why? What is the purpose of it? What does Oxford gain from that?

Oh and the majority of the funding for this trial comes from trusts and foundations, principally the Wellcome Trust. So you can stop bleating about taxpayers money.

The entire University of Oxford did not develop this vaccine, just one department, but the many flaws of this vaccine and its production partner AstraZeneca will damage the reputations of both. For AstraZeneca, it's deserved - they have behaved appallingly. The researchers at the University of Oxford tried to leverage the university's name to pursue their own glory and personal profit.

In a sense the university itself is bound up in the mess as those in positions of responsibility chose to partner with AstraZeneca, which although a big pharma company has absolutely no experience in making vaccines, rather than with Merck, which was the original option for partner and which has a long experience with vaccines, because a deal with Merck would supposedly have made less money for Oxford University (and less personal profit for the Oxford scientists involved via their company Vaccitech Ltd).

Add in the British government, which apparently pushed for the Oxford-AstraZeneca tie-up and which we can make the educated assumption pressured Oxford/AstraZeneca to get this vaccine out as quickly as possible, not simply in order to battle the pandemic but to prove that Brexit Britain is a winner, and the result is the mess we have today. A vaccine with shoddy trials that produced confusing and deceptive data, "mistakes" in the dosages during the trials, AstraZeneca unable to manufacture even 50% of what it has committed to and, worst of all, a vaccine that can be lethal. If we also consider just how much investment, both in terms of time and energy, was made by the global community into this vaccine - which was hailed (by its developers) as the great "gamechanger" that was going to save the world - when more energy could have been devoted to supporting other vaccines, particularly Johnson & Johnson - then this vaccine has perhaps hindered more than helped efforts against the pandemic.

This vaccine could have been useful if it hadn't been so hyped and conned the world into depending on it. If the Oxford people had just spent a little more time ensuring they had got their vaccine rather than dashing to be first (even though they were beaten by the mRNA vaccines) then we might be in a better place today.

R85 It's selling it at cost, unlike the other big pharma companies who are making a profit. Something to keep in mind when you see it's constantly the AZ vaccine which is slandered, and never the ones from the companies actually profiting from vaccines.

R87 Just skipping over the fact that Merck wouldn't guarantee global availability, wouldn't guarantee they'd make the vaccine available to the poorest countries, and there was concern that the vaccine being by a US company meant the Trump admin would hoard all the doses?

Research undertaken by a team at Oxford University showed that Dexamethasone was very effective in treating Covid.

BUT WAS IT REALLY?

How we do know the Oxford team weren't lying because the Oxford troll says Oxford shouldn't be believed and are run by corrupt lying Trump supporters.

Forgot the link to the full article, which R87 selectively referenced. Funny the number of posters doing that in this thread, isn't it?

The US is giving the AZ vaccine to countries as part of their diplomatic initiatives in Asia and South America. I doubt it will ever be approved for use in the US.

[quote]The US is giving the AZ vaccine to countries as part of their diplomatic initiatives in Asia and South America. I doubt it will ever be approved for use in the US.

What kind of message does the US give to the rest of the world if it declares that the AZ is good enough for Asians and South Americans, but not good enough for its own citizens?

Even if they don't administer the vaccine in huge doses, it will be wholly discredited if the US don't approve it for its own people.

R89, AstraZeneca is unable to produce what it has promised. Its production in the EU (which supplies Covax and many other countries, not just the EU) is fucked, its production in the UK (which had to buy from the Serum Institute of India and is also importing from the EU) is fucked, its production in the US would no doubt also have been a shambles (we've already caught a glimpse of that). AstraZeneca made grand promises of 3 billon doses this year and it's barely squeezed out a few tens of millions.

The "it's selling at cost" argument is the Oxford AstraZeneca advocates' last defence. This isn't even true. First of all, AZ has only committed to selling "at cost" until July 2021. Secondly, AstraZeneca invested practically nothing in this vaccine as it was developed by Oxford, so it's not as though they even need to try to make their investment back. Third, AstraZeneca is doing very little production and is mostly licensing. Licensing entails huge expenditure for countries, who have to set up factories, source the raw materials and other equipment themselves. Fourth, the largest manufacturer of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine will be the Serum Institute of India, which has no obligation to sell at cost.

Johnson and Johnson is selling at cost to Covax and poorer countries. The US is paying around $10 for J&J so Covax can be presumed to be paying less. Since the J&J is a one-dose vaccine, this means it has far fewer transport, storage, administrative, etc. costs than the two-dose AstraZeneca, then it's overall costs are probably even lower.

Novavax will also be sold at cost to Covax. Sinovac is being sold to some countries for just a few dollars a dose. This "it's being sold at cost" claim is just part of the Oxford AstraZeneca hype which doesn't even hold once you take a closer look at the details.

Not to mention, the AstraZeneca vaccine is useless against the E484k mutation ("South Africa" variant), which is the biggest threat at present. You're not saving much if you then have to go and buy new vaccines to tackle variants just a few months later. This is why South Africa abandoned the AstraZeneca vaccine.

What is the availability in the UK and the EU of the 3 US approved vaccines?

R93 the message it sends is that America is back and can be relied upon for help. China and Russia have their own versions of the vaccine that they are also trying to sell or “donate” around the world as well. Economically weaker countries are desperate to get whatever they can.

Do you think a President will turn their nose up to a few million doses of AZ from the US? Especially after it’s been used as the predominant vaccine in the UK? We already know that many parts of the world at least know something about what’s going on in the US. So they saw us go from a fumbling idiot (2020) to beating out Canada, and the EU with vaccine distribution (2021). Meanwhile, many countries still don’t have a vaccination schedule detailed for their citizens.

Many people are forced to sit and wait with little to no direction from their governments as their leaders desperately try to get vaccines for their people. They are watching the US enjoy the benefits of super power status. So I’d say, it’s only good PR for the US to send out the AZ. More importantly, the local leaders will MAKE it into good PR as they boast about securing X amount of vaccines for their people.

[quote]To continue to do research on something that has been proven NOT TO WORK, is ridiculous. You know this. You're just being an asshole.

Oxford never said hydrochloroquinine worked.

They said it hadn't been proven either way, and at the time, they were right. They tested it and quickly determined it was dangerous when used with azithromycin, and useless when used by itself.

Saying that Oxford said it worked and they were trying to help out Trump by proving it worked is a full-on fucking lie. You can stamp your widdle feet and cuss and scream that we're all crazy, not like you, but the fact is that you're either dangerously stupid or a liar.

[quote] I've criticized the vaccine, but you'll be alright getting it.

How the fuck do you know?

[quote] the message it sends is that America is back and can be relied upon for help.

lol. Yeah, okay honey.

None of this stuff is FDA approved. You sign away your right to sue if you die from it. We’re all guinea pigs.

Like it would make any difference to you if it was FDA-approved, R100. You'd just latch on to some other fear-spreading nonsense.

There’s a lot of money to be made by trashing Astra Zeneca, as it is being offered at cost, without a nice mark-up for the company. Undermining confidence in Astrazeneca means more public money going to drug companies.

[quote][R93] the message it sends is that America is back and can be relied upon for help. China and Russia have their own versions of the vaccine that they are also trying to sell or “donate” around the world as well. Economically weaker countries are desperate to get whatever they can.

America refusing to approve a vaccine to be used for its own people but shipping it out to poorer countries doesn't suggest "we're here to help" at me.

It suggests that they are dumping unwanted unsafe vaccines and trying to look generous.

If AZ is safe, they need to approve it first and then make the case that they're giving it away because it doesn't need special storage etc.

[quote]There’s a lot of money to be made by trashing Astra Zeneca, as it is being offered at cost, without a nice mark-up for the company. Undermining confidence in Astrazeneca means more public money going to drug companies.

Interesting.

How do you explain all the problems and side effects that have cropped up that have not occurred with the other vaccines? Or, is it selective reporting on side effects.

As for sending it out to poorer countries, if the choice is keeping production of the other drugs to vaccinate people in your home country vs. having no vaccines in the poorer country, it makes sense to prioritize your home country.

When resources are finite, there are always going to be tough decisions to make. It would be irresponsible, not to mention a violation of their fiduciary duty to their own citizens, to make a different choice by developed governments.

The Wall Street Journal has some interesting investigations on the financing of Vaccitech Ltd, the Oxford University spin-off founded by Adrian Hill, director of the Jenner Institute (Oxford's vaccine research centre) and Sarah Gilbert, who led the team that developed the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine. They opposed the tie-up with Merck, even though Merck have far more experience with vaccines than AstraZeneca and would have helped them navigate the complexities of trials and scaling up production, both of which AstraZeneca has failed at miserably.

Hill and Gilbert and their spinoff Vaccitech profit much more with AstraZeneca than with Merck. Unfortunately, even Oxford University misses out on taking some of the proceeds from the sale of the vaccine, which would have been put directly back into research.

A startup behind the Covid-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca AZN 1.76%▲ PLC is planning an initial public offering that backers hope will be the biggest market debut of an Oxford spinoff in years.

One hurdle: the university itself.

Nine-hundred-year-old Oxford is wrestling with how to rewrite its rules for fostering companies created by its academics or born in its labs, while in a standoff with one that has been thrust into the spotlight by the pandemic. The startup, Vaccitech Ltd., has been pitching to potential investors and laying groundwork for a stock listing in New York as early as this year, according to people close to the plans and marketing documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Investors are aiming for an IPO valuation of around $700 million, with expectations that Vaccitech could be a $1 billion company by year-end. Big investors such as pharmaceutical giant Gilead Sciences Inc. and Lilly Asia Ventures, a venture-capital arm spun off from drugmaker Eli Lilly & Co., have expressed interest in investing, according to people familiar with the matter and documents reviewed by the Journal.

Vaccitech’s chief executive, Bill Enright, declined to comment, as did a Gilead spokesman. Lilly Asia Ventures didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Vaccitech is among a handful of once-obscure biotechs that have found their moment of opportunity in the pandemic. Vaccitech, though, hasn’t yet capitalized on its role. Some investors have been nervous about high-profile stumbles in the shot’s rollout and early negative perceptions about its effectiveness compared with other vaccines.

There is another hitch. Longstanding tensions between the startup and Oxford have raised novel hurdles in the complex fundraising process, according to people familiar with the matter. Plans for an IPO are still in flux, and may still fall apart, these people said.

The university owns about 10% of the startup. Vaccitech, its bankers and lawyers have sought access, so far unsuccessfully, to Oxford’s exclusive Covid-19 vaccine contract with AstraZeneca, according to these people. The pact was struck last spring when the drugmaker agreed to make and distribute the Oxford vaccine. Vaccitech and its advisers have argued that the document spells out financial and legal obligations that are key to valuing the company fairly and for regulatory disclosures.

Oxford and Vaccitech are separately sparring over the narrative of the company’s role in the vaccine’s development, these people say. Vaccitech wants Oxford’s imprimatur to market its scientists’ early work alongside Oxford in inventing the vaccine and its assistance in speeding up manufacturing for early clinical trials and providing safety data for regulators, according to people familiar with the matter and related correspondence viewed by the Journal. The two sides also tussled briefly over where to list, with some Oxford-affiliated investors favoring London. Vaccitech executives have insisted on Nasdaq in New York.

Oxford didn’t reply to requests for comment. AstraZeneca declined to comment.

Before Covid-19, Vaccitech was a little-known biotech startup focused in part on vaccines—a low-profile field until last year. Oxford’s backing helped keep the company afloat. The Covid-19 shot has lent new credence to Vaccitech’s own suite of vaccines and therapies, still in clinical trials, aimed at fighting other viruses and cancers.

The conflict is playing out as Oxford tries to overhaul the way it backs startups, like Vaccitech, that seek to turn science and technology into shareholder returns. The overhaul is part of Oxford’s yearslong quest to better compete with leading U.S. schools like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Stanford University in attracting startup money and talent.

[WSJ article cont.]

Vaccitech was co-founded in 2016 by two Oxford scientists now at the center of the vaccine’s development. They created key technology underpinning the shot, using a modified chimpanzee cold virus to ferry genetic material into human cells to trigger immunity. Vaccitech owns rights to that technology.

Executives and investors say the Covid-19 shot has shown the potential of Vaccitech’s technology to fight hepatitis B, prostate cancer and human papillomavirus—global health problems with huge markets for effective treatments. Vaccitech scientists believe its so-called viral-vector technology used in the Covid-19 vaccine can unlock other therapies and weapons against infection, some of which it could license to big drug companies. Human trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca shot last year—and real-world evidence since—showed it worked against Covid-19, preventing deaths and serious disease. But the trials also generated a confusing spectrum of results that created negative perceptions about its effectiveness compared with other vaccines. AstraZeneca has also been on the defensive over shortfalls in doses it said it would deliver to Europe by this month. Other biotech companies behind Covid-19 vaccines have struck fundraising gold. Germany’s CureVac NV raised more than $200 million in an August stock debut that valued it at more than $2 billion. That has soared past $15 billion as its vaccine has reached final-stage trials. Shares of Novavax Inc., which struggled for years to produce a marketable vaccine, have surged as it closes in on authorization in the U.S. of its Covid-19 vaccine.

Vaccitech gave up direct rights to Oxford’s Covid-19 vaccine and instead stands to make 24% of any royalties Oxford receives from AstraZeneca’s vaccine sales, the Journal previously reported. Vaccitech’s worth is based in small part on potential future royalties from the Covid-19 vaccine, but much more on its plans to adapt the vaccine technology to fight other diseases. That pipeline of drugs needs at least another three to four years to bear fruit, according to marketing documents. Investors previously valued the company at around £100 million, equivalent to $138.4 million, but now estimate it is worth more than $250 million, according to updated, nonpublic figures. Vaccitech’s IPO plans are shaping up as a test case for Oxford’s spinout process. The university has backed more than 200 startups since the late 1980s, but its record of fostering big moneymakers has trailed leading U.S. institutions. Now the British university is tearing up its existing spinout rules, according to nonpublic communications reviewed by the Journal and people familiar with the process.

In 2015, Oxford created its own venture firm, Oxford Sciences Innovation PLC, raising around $800 million from outside investors. Oxford owns 5% of OSI and set out to take a 50% stake in promising startups, giving half of that automatically to OSI. Oxford has since dialed back its founding stakes to around 28% on average, and it is looking to shrink that further for future startups, people close to the process say, in an effort to attract more founders and outside investors. OSI declined to comment.

Oxford’s big initial stakes can give it outsize sway inside the university’s startups, even after other investors dilute those holdings. Oxford and OSI, with a more-than-40% stake in Vaccitech, ultimately pressed the biotech to sign over its 50% share of the vaccine intellectual property to enable the AstraZeneca deal, the Journal previously reported. Vaccitech was also kept out of the negotiations with AstraZeneca.

[WSJ article part 3]

AstraZeneca has publicly promised to provide three billion doses at no profit this year. At the time of the partnership deal, private communications show, OSI told Vaccitech that it, like Oxford, wouldn’t be eligible for any vaccine royalties while Covid-19 remained a pandemic, and for a period of 12 months afterward.

Vaccitech backers pushing for access to the contract now want clarity on the full terms that Oxford reached regarding royalty payments, and any other benefits, once AstraZeneca starts profiting on doses, according to people familiar with the matter.

[quote]America refusing to approve a vaccine to be used for its own people but shipping it out to poorer countries doesn't suggest "we're here to help" at me.

America hasn't refused to approve AZ, the company hasn't yet applied for emergency use authorization.

[quote] Research undertaken by a team at Oxford University showed that Dexamethasone was very effective in treating Covid.

Dexamethasone was already in use in America before this study came out.

Oxford continued trials on using it as a preventative. That's despite the fact that this type of study has been done and it's been determined that Hydroxychloroquine does not work as preventative. A study was done in America on healthcare workers.

They absolutely REFUSE to give up on hydroxychloroquine. And that is insane. Even donald trump gave up on this drug.

We’ll probably never know if hydroxychloroquine is effective in treating Covid.

Why hasn't AstraZeneca applied for authorisation in the US yet, r109.

[quote]There have been no cases of vaccine-induced prothrombotic immune thrombocytopenia (VIPIT) in Canada,

Probably b/c they've barely started vaccinating with it.

[quote]We’ll probably never know if hydroxychloroquine is effective in treating Covid.

Don't we know - and the answer is that it's NOT?

[quote]A National Institutes of Health clinical trial evaluating the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has formally concluded that the drug provides no clinical benefit to hospitalized patients.

[quote]How do you explain all the problems and side effects that have cropped up that have not occurred with the other vaccines?

But they have. In the UK, more blood clot issues were found amongst those who'd received the Pfizer vaccine than the AZ one, and yet that little fact never gets mentioned. Funny, isn't it?

Did the royal family and PM get AZ? That’s my test for effectiveness. Get whatever your leaders got. I got Pfizer, which was my first choice. Trump, Biden, and their families received Pfizer vaccine.

At the time when the Queen got her jab AZ and Pfizer were approved for use. The palace refused to say which one she got. At the time most world leaders appeared to be getting Pfizer’s. So that’s the one I wanted.

Joan Collins got AstraZeneca. And she's 87 years old. The lady from Dragon's Den took AstraZeneca. Ontario's Minister of Health has AstraZeneca. It's a perfectly good vaccine, though most all the vaccines will require tweaks and boosters against VOC and new mutations within the next year.

R115, the UK reports no such thing.

[quote]British regulators on Thursday said they have identified 30 cases of rare blood clot events after the use of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine, 25 more than the agency previously reported. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said it had received no such reports of clotting events following use of the vaccine made by BioNTech SE and Pfizer Inc.

R115, the blood clots found after the Pfizer vaccine have been common blood clots that we would expect to find in that number and population group over that period and there has been no causal effect found with the vaccine. The types of blood clots that are of concern with the AstraZeneca vaccine are extremely rare blood clots known as cerebral venous thrombosis and disseminated intravascular coagulation. These have been appearing in people who have had the AZ vaccine in numbers that are much higher than usual and can be associated with a reduction of blood platelets caused by the vaccine.

Yes, the number of cases is very small but they are increasing and have even led to fatalities (7 deaths in the UK alone so far). In such a situation, governments have to take precautions.

Ruh-roh

Guess who is stopping the trial?

Is it Pfizer? NO. Is It Moderna? NO. Is J & J? NO

It's AstraZeneca

AZ is junk. I feel sorry for the British.

[quote] We’ll probably never know if hydroxychloroquine is effective in treating Covid.

We already know. All the clinical trials have proven that it doesn't work as prophylaxis and sure the fuck doesn't work on Covid patients

But don't worry. Oxford is doing more studies on it

[quote]AZ is junk. I feel sorry for the British.

Please redirect your pity to mainland Europe and Brazil.

EMA now says there is a link between the deadly blood clots and the vaccine.

R43 I think that was me reporting on the deaths from the vaccine here in Norway. Thanks for the support. Turns out I was right, as were the Norwegian scientists and doctors who found the link in the first place.

R115 You are mistaken. The AZ variant is a rare type of blood clot. The vaccine triggers an immune response in people that leads to bleeding, blood clots and low level of blood platelets. That is what makes it so dangerous and deadly. It is very hard to treat. You cannot just give the patients blood thinners as they are already bleeding and would bleed more. The blood clots due to Pfizer have been "normal" blood clots which are much easier to treat. Also, those blood clots have happened in a lot of elderly people with underlying conditions, not young healthy people developing blood clots and dying from it like with AZ. I believe the researchers when they say they have not seen this type of blood clot from the other vaccines, it has only happened from AZ.