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Will Kamala Harris Have a Backbone and OVER-RULE the Senate Parliamentarian?

Probably not. Even if she wanted to. Because "reaching across the aisle" and kissing Republicans' asses is more important to Biden than fighting for working people. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. I've been pleasantly surprised by some of his more aggressive moves early in his administration. Don't be a wimp on this one, Biden. You fight for working people now, you'll hold Congress in 2022 and Kamala will win the White House in 2024.

But, yes, it's true. The VP DOES have the authority to overrule the Senate Parliamentarian.

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by Anonymousreply 43March 1, 2021 10:58 PM

Rep. Jayapal is right. It's happened before, it can happen again. It is 100% constitutional.

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by Anonymousreply 1February 26, 2021 1:36 AM

No she won’t. Biden is not one to rock the boat, sadly. And because of Manchin and Sinema there isn’t even 50 votes for it.

Worth noting that years ago the GOP wanted to add something to reconciliation and parliamentarian told them no. So they fired him and put it in anyway. Democrats will just never fight as hard as republicans do which is why they always lose.

by Anonymousreply 2February 26, 2021 1:42 AM

The problem here is that would sacrifice everything.

Manchin and Sinema are holding the caucus hostage. The COVID bill will probably pass if Democrats leave out the $15 minimum wage. But if Harris overrules the Parliamentarian both will vote against the wage hike, vote no on the principle of the procedure, and also as a retaliatory power move for last months "invasion" of their states without permission.

This would be different if we had any members of the GQP willing to do what is best for the country. We don't. That is why the example at R2 doesn't work in this case. It is not about having the gumption to do it, it's about having the backup to falter a little bit (my guess is that whatever it was they shoved through got those two to vote for it as well).

All of this is so heartbreaking when we think about how much stronger everything would be if we could have just pulled out Maine, South Carolina and/or Iowa in November. To think where we would be if we could have gotten those seats.

Finally, while I'm ranting, I would just like to ask the Progressives to think strategically before spouting off about things like this. I truly love Jayapal. But she comes from as dark a blue state as The Squad (and Katie Porter). They are all intelligent women, but none of them seem to understand how hard it is get senators from competitive states to balance so many competing factors to enact "bold" legislation. AOC raised $5million last weekend for Texas and yet conservative media attacked her as bringing "bad energy" and accused her of trying to "take advantage" of the situation--because, to them, everything is about power and not people. It's a wholly different mindset when you're dealing with toxic, disingenuous politicians who would--and did--slander you rather than accept help or do the right thing.

I think they will and SHOULD opt to work to fulfill what they promised, which was COVID relief, and circle back to wage increase on the wish list, ultimately settling on something like $13/hour.

by Anonymousreply 3February 26, 2021 2:22 AM

Biden should grow some balls and start strong arming Manchin and Sinema. LBJ used to threaten senators to get them to vote with him. We have two years to get shit done.

by Anonymousreply 4February 26, 2021 2:28 AM

[quote]They are all intelligent women, but none of them seem to understand how hard it is get senators from competitive states to balance so many competing factors to enact "bold" legislation.

Or perhaps they do understand that but they can't suddenly roll over and show their bellies because of it.

Sinema and Manchin have their ways. The Progressives over in the House have theirs. The chips will fall where they will. That doesn't mean they shouldn't stop pushing for what they want even if they know they're unlikely to get it. AOC is where she is because she has the backing of Progressives across the country. Manchin in the Senate will never do anything that makes him seem too far left because of his home state. It sucks but that's how it is.

by Anonymousreply 5February 26, 2021 2:36 AM

It is wonderful that we have control of the Senate in order to set the agenda and control the committees. But, a 50-50 split means that we are not going to be able to move things through as if we had 60+ seats.

by Anonymousreply 6February 26, 2021 2:45 AM

I was once a big fan of Jayapal but her messaging (and of the Progressive Caucus I assume since she heads it) has been remarkably tone deaf to the realities of the political constraints we are in. It reminds me of how progressives were unrealistic during the early years of the Obama admin, especially around health care. Even though the dems had an effective coalition on 60 votes, the Senate Dem caucus was much more conservative than it is now (anyone remember the name Ben Nighthorse Campbell) and that asshole of all time Lieberman, who was singlehandedly responsible for stripping out the Public Option at the last minute just to spite Obama (remember he endorsed Mccain against Obama for president - warmongering asshole). But several of the big progressive blogs blamed Obama for "caving" - I guess he was supposed let the entire bill die instead of making concessions to conservadem senators - and when I heard Jayapal hinting that the "Chair of the Senate can overrule the parliamentarian" (why she didn't just day VP who would be the Chair in that circumstance) I cringed because Senema has already explicitly said she would torpedo the entire bill if the VP attempted to do that. This has nothing to do with who has the bigger balls or "guts" - the press would make the story "Biden loses Senema in futile attempt to bypass Senate Rules" or something and he would be rightly compared to Trump, who would often do "bold" things that completely backfired. And these morons who say "primary Senema or Manchin like republicans do" has no understanding of the internal and regional dynamics that make it impossible to "primary from the left" in those races and how it would backfire (whereas it is the exact opposite in the Republican party) but that has nothing to do with "strength" and everyone to do with the very different coalitions that form the two parties...

by Anonymousreply 7February 26, 2021 3:48 AM

Well then, I guess we'd be better off if cheeto had won, right OP?

Idiot.

by Anonymousreply 8February 26, 2021 3:56 AM

[quote] when I heard Jayapal hinting that the "Chair of the Senate can overrule the parliamentarian"

I googled the parliamentarian and she's actually been pretty fair to both sides over the years. Although if this situation were reversed, trump and the repugs would have fired her last night. And trump would have intimated said she was doing a bad job and was fired for cause and then gone on to hint that she had done something illegal

by Anonymousreply 9February 26, 2021 4:08 AM

Good work, R7

by Anonymousreply 10February 26, 2021 4:22 AM

All other industrialized countries have higher minimum wages than America. And none of them have regretted it. No one's standard of living has gone down in those countries

by Anonymousreply 11February 26, 2021 4:24 AM

Sorry, OP, but you have to have your backbone removed to succeed in politics. But I agree that Biden is better than Cheeto Jesus, the Savior of Q. I never expected much from presidents, but that sow Trump was a step too far.

by Anonymousreply 12February 26, 2021 4:26 AM

I’ll tell you this, if Democrats managed to take this on, either in this bill or another, then it would be a monumental success. America needs more wins like this. Bold moves.

I agree they only have a year and a half to pull this off.

They have to go big and WV and AZ will thank their senators by then if they would do something for their citizens.

by Anonymousreply 13February 26, 2021 4:50 AM

I actually think Sinema is the bigger wild card. For all of Manchin's posturing, by and large, he usually goes along with the Dem caucus. Sinema seems more intent in showing what a "maverick" she is.

by Anonymousreply 14February 26, 2021 4:54 AM

The only people opposed to raising the minimum wage are the corporate pirates and the right-wing think tanks.

Average people are totally for raising the minimum wage. They have the numbers on their side.

What constituent, in WEST VIRGINIA of all places, wouldn’t this?

I think Manchin is beholden to the big moneyed interests; not the average West Virginian.

Surely Biden and Harris know this. If they wanted to play ball, they should go visit WV and show Manchin and the media how much WV needs the stimulus.

by Anonymousreply 15February 26, 2021 4:54 AM

She won't. She's too busy giggling or the cameras.

by Anonymousreply 16February 26, 2021 4:58 AM

Yeah, she needs to stop with the laughing, like she was on laughing gas.

by Anonymousreply 17February 26, 2021 9:48 AM

A girl can't help it when all her machinations have put her one bad fall away from the presidency.

by Anonymousreply 18February 26, 2021 9:52 AM
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by Anonymousreply 19February 26, 2021 10:36 AM

No $2000, bombing Syria, no $15/hr minimum wage, Neera Fucking Tanden, -12% decline in markets so 401(k) is fucked, death toll still rising. But yay trans everything.

At this point I'd vote Trump-Trump in '24 (any combo of them). At lease their incompetence isn't hidden behind symbolic bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 20February 26, 2021 10:42 AM

First off - fuck David Sirota.

Secondly, the Democrats should pull the minimum wage from this bill - they're not going to get the votes and why drag out getting the aid to people. They should introduce a separate bill to address the minimum wage - and that's it. It's hard to spin a bill that would be solely focused on that one issue. And then, yes, Biden and Harris do a full court press in WV, AZ, and across the country - lots of local media to push the minimum wage bill - it's always a winner when people have the chance to vote for it.

The Democrats need to focus. They want to do a lot but trying to do it all in one bill is not the way to go.

by Anonymousreply 21February 26, 2021 10:45 AM

I think Dems should come up with another plan to raise minimum wage. If necessary compromise with a few Republicans and bring it down to $12. They can do one more reconciliation bill and bring it up to 15 next year. Bit Covid relief needs to pass quickly first.

by Anonymousreply 22February 26, 2021 10:58 AM

[quote] Democrats will just never fight as hard as republicans do which is why they always lose.

Psst. Maybe you missed the news cycle. The Dems won the House, Senate, and the White House. And knocked out two senators from an historically red state.

by Anonymousreply 23February 26, 2021 11:55 AM

[quote] The only people opposed to raising the minimum wage are the corporate pirates and the right-wing think tanks.

And a lot of small business owners.

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by Anonymousreply 24February 26, 2021 11:57 AM

From R24:

[quote] The minimum wage battle on Main Street splits along party lines. Small business owners who identify as Democrats were more than four times as likely as Republicans (89% vs. 20%) to support raising the minimum wage

[quote] 55% of Republicans but just 38% of Democrats say they’ll have to raise wages, lay off workers, or do both in order to comply with the proposed change

Again, the people screaming the loudest about being "fair minded", "independent", "free-thinkers" are repeating a partisan talking point.

We literally have a Small Business Administration to work on these issues. Stop letting Faux News dictate policy.

by Anonymousreply 25February 26, 2021 12:51 PM

Isn't Senema bisexual (of course, she has a male partner)?

by Anonymousreply 26February 26, 2021 2:24 PM

The WH isn’t even trying to get Manchin and Sinema on board. They’re just giving up. What’s the point of being president if you don’t use the leverage of the executive branch to whip votes for policies that you supposedly want in a bill? They’re whipping harder to get Neera Tanden confirmed. It’s disgusting.

by Anonymousreply 27February 26, 2021 2:47 PM

Certain states and cities already have a higher minimum wage. Those that don't, will just have to live with it.

by Anonymousreply 28February 26, 2021 3:00 PM

Power. Use it or lose it.

by Anonymousreply 29February 26, 2021 4:06 PM

That is why I say that I voted for Biden/Harris so Trump would lose, not because I supported them per se. I like them well enough but they work for the people who financed them to run for office; not the voters. Trump supporters are too stupid to realize that that’s exactly what Trump did to them.

by Anonymousreply 30February 26, 2021 4:15 PM

What is Biden supposed to force Manchin or Senema? Sick the FBI on him? Buy them hookers and blow? Senators have to get reelected from their state and in case anyone forgot, WV is a deeply red state (2020 - Trump 68.7% vs 29.7% Biden) so Biden attacking Manchin would only increase his popularity. Arizona is more evenly split but the same calculus applies. Pretending that Presidents have some super powers to coerce congress and ranting about it online may be cathartic but isn't going to solve the core problem - the metastization of the filibuster into a process that effectively require supermajority votes for all almost all matters. Until that is fixed, nothing outside of judicial nominations and votes during a narrow reconciliation timeframe (and subject to the whims of an unelected senate parliamentarian) is going to pass the senate.

by Anonymousreply 31February 26, 2021 11:59 PM

[quote] Sick the FBI on him?

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 32February 27, 2021 12:05 AM

Not to mention if Biden were to try to punish them by having Schumer rescind their committee assignments, etc., they'd just switch parties.

by Anonymousreply 33February 27, 2021 12:11 AM

Even if she over ruled the Senate Parliamentarian, the Democrats don't have enough Senate votes to pass it. Machin and Sinema are against it. The only good thing to come out of this is that Stimulus package will pass including some Republicans.

by Anonymousreply 34February 27, 2021 12:14 AM

R34, I just heard someone say on MSNBC a minute ago that they don't expect any Republicans will vote for the stimulus package because (a) they think it's too much money and (b) they have no desire to give a Democratic president a big win like that. And we all know that (b) is far more important to them than (a).

by Anonymousreply 35February 27, 2021 3:30 AM

Progressives Dems demanded @KamalaHarris use her power to ignore the parliamentarian & fulfill her promise to advance a $15 minimum wage.

Letter signed by 23 House Dems including

@RoKhanna

@AOC

@Ilhan

@RepBowman

@RepJayapal

@Ilhan

@RepRashida

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by Anonymousreply 36March 1, 2021 9:00 PM

Pramila is a goddess.

Kamala is merely a handmaiden.

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by Anonymousreply 37March 1, 2021 9:19 PM

I'm so sick of sabotaging far leftists. They are not helping democrats to get bills through congress. They are only in it for the grandstanding, posturing and lifting their own very questionable political profile.

by Anonymousreply 38March 1, 2021 9:23 PM

Take it out of the bill and work on MW $15 seperately. It's obviously not a 'one solution fits all' situation since some small business owners can't afford the $15 and if they are forced to pay higher hourly rates, they'd go bankrupt and nobody wants small businesses like your friendly neighborhood bodega, cafe, pizzeria, butcher and baker to close.

by Anonymousreply 39March 1, 2021 9:38 PM

Wasn't the whole point of electing Biden was that he could reach across the aisle and get things done? That he could work with Democrats AND Republicans?

Pretty sure that was the reason?

Is Manchin going to be the excuse as to why nothing substantial will get done in the next year and a half?

And who is the dumbass complaining about "Using Black women to do your dirty work"? Kamala Harris is VP. Asking her to do her job is now targeting a black woman?

We're just plunging headfirst into a midterm loss with this bullshit, aren't we?

by Anonymousreply 40March 1, 2021 9:48 PM

[quote] And who is the dumbass complaining about "Using Black women to do your dirty work"? Kamala Harris is VP.

Progressives despise Kamala. The K-Hive is insane. They will tear each other limb from limb.

It's going to be even worse with John Fetterman vs. Malcolm Kenyatta for the Democratic Senate Primary in Pennsylvania.

[quote] Asking her to do her job is now targeting a black woman?

But it's not asking her to do her job. It's asking her to lose. Manchin is not going to budge and so a move like this would be the very definition of virtue signaling, garnering zero actual dollars but a huge loss of political capital. Most people look at it as simply impractical. Her biggest fans are offended that some progressives are implying that she should be willing to take this bullet and then just hand over the office to the next victim if she gets destroyed by the move.

by Anonymousreply 41March 1, 2021 10:22 PM

[quote]Her biggest fans are offended that some progressives are implying that she should be willing to take this bullet and then just hand over the office to the next victim if she gets destroyed by the move.

The problem is that Kamala has also spoken at length about how a $15 dollar wage in this environment is necessary all throughout the Trump administration. So of course they're going to use it against her in the middle of a pandemic.

[quote]Progressives despise Kamala. The K-Hive is insane. They will tear each other limb from limb.

I like Kamala, and I would have voted for her in a heartbeat for President, but she gets the same vitriol that Hillary Clinton gets. And it's not just progressives. She bombed in her own state when she ran for President. Her polling among black people was almost zero. It's going to be a VERY rough ride if she runs for President.

I'm really hoping Biden puts her out there more often, because she needs to shine. So far, it seems like she's being sidelined. Not a good look.

by Anonymousreply 42March 1, 2021 10:38 PM

[quote] The problem is that Kamala has also spoken at length about how a $15 dollar wage in this environment is necessary all throughout the Trump administration. So of course they're going to use it against her in the middle of a pandemic.

Or, they could take a bit of comfort knowing that she understands the need and give her a few minutes to sort out the details.

[quote] I'm really hoping Biden puts her out there more often, because she needs to shine. So far, it seems like she's being sidelined.

...Those items, Mr. Biden said, are what “we think the priorities are,” putting the emphasis on the pronoun. Then, turning to face Vice President Kamala Harris, standing a few socially distanced feet behind him, he apologized.

It was a rare slip for the president, who has worked to include Ms. Harris in nearly all his public appearances, and stress that she is a full partner in the decisions he makes. Those recurring scenes are the most tangible result of Mr. Biden’s efforts — and a presidential directive — to treat Ms. Harris, the first woman and Black vice president, as an equal stakeholder as he works to knit together the nation’s political rifts, address racial inequalities and bring the coronavirus pandemic to heel.

“The president has given us clear instructions,” Ron Klain, Mr. Biden’s chief of staff, said in an interview. “Our goal is to get her out there as much as we can.”

Ms. Harris’s relationship with the president was forged by the bare-knuckle politics of the Democratic primary campaign, when she emerged as one of Mr. Biden’s most vocal opponents. A surprising chemistry with Mr. Biden made them running mates and now that relationship will be crucial in enabling Ms. Harris to define herself in what the historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. said has proved “to be a job of spectacular and, I believe, incurable frustration.”

“She went from this failed campaign to getting the golden ticket, as the chief surrogate for a guy who appreciates the role of vice president, and is going to put her out there in this historic role,” said Gil Duran, a former aide to Ms. Harris when she served as California attorney general. “So the question is: What does she do with this reset?”

The answer is a work in progress.

The vice president has already made her presence known, most recently Friday morning, when she traveled to Capitol Hill before sunrise to cast a tiebreaking vote in the Senate, clearing the way for Mr. Biden’s $1.9 trillion coronavirus stimulus package to move forward without Republican support.

And as the barrier-breaking part of the partnership, Ms. Harris has assumed the burden of living up to the expectations of voters, especially people of color, who helped put Mr. Biden in the Oval Office. It is a burden Mr. Klain says she has borne “with grace” even as it weighs heavily on her. Others say it will take time for her to chart her own course.

...

“She starts with a president who has been there and understands what it feels like to be the person standing behind two steps back at a public event,” Mr. Klain said. “I think he has this empathy for her situation that is unique.”

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by Anonymousreply 43March 1, 2021 10:58 PM
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