The world is insanely overpriced

Get a Charley Horse, OP.

OP Would those who get 50K student loan forgiveness also qualify for the 25K if they are first time buyers?

The boomers - who own a disproportionate amount of US real estate - will all be dying or retiring soon. There should be a large amount of prime housing flooding the market over the coming decade or two, prices should come down.

Yeah R3. That’s how it works.

🙄

I want it!

And I want it now!

And I also I want it free! No strings.

Well its true and although it may not solve the problem outright it will alleviate some of it. Housing prices are about supply and demand (and location). More supply and choice usually = better prices and availability.

R2, yes

Oh honey R6, no.

[quote] How are young people who are just starting out supposed to gain footing in this world? Something's gotta give, no?

Your parents said the same thing 25 years ago.

Your grandparents said it 50 years ago.

Every generation has some issues. The economy was doing horrible in the 80s when I got out of college but found a job which developed into a career.

Work on the things you can to better yourself so you can stick out from the pack. It will get better and things will work out...I promise!

My parents lived at first in their (grand)parents' garage.

Later on, they graduated up to live in a boatshed.

My mother kept to a budget and allocated father's bring-home pay into ten envelopes.

R10 I think there have been some structural changes in the job market since the 80's. I graduated from college in the 80's and went directly to Wall Street to start my career. The positions available to me then don't exist anymore due to advances in technology. I'm not sure where I'd land in today's job market.

I wondering though, wouldn't giving a $25,000 housing credit just increase housing prices and inflation? Any economists here?

[quote]Work on the things you can to better yourself so you can stick out from the pack. It will get better and things will work out...I promise!

Thank you for the kind words but you got out of college at a different time. (It's datalounge but seriously, no disrespect at all meant here.) Try doing that 20 years later.

There's a huge problem when most millennials don't own homes. (Only 43% of millennials own their own homes. That's less than half.)

They can't all be fuckups, something is wrong here. It's not a paper dragon.

[quote]I wondering though, wouldn't giving a $25,000 housing credit just increase housing prices and inflation? Any economists here?

And this is another problem.

In many cases, the houses that Boomers own represent the vast majority of their net worth. That means that they are depending on the sale of those houses to pay for their assisted living (if and when they need it). However, many plan to will their real estate to one of their children, or direct that it be sold upon their deaths and the proceeds divided between their children. So that will be a huge transfer of generational wealth to the millennials. However, it might be a case of too little too late.

Well the who's buying all the high-priced real estate? If not the under-40s, then who. Gen X and the Boomers are nearing retirement, their highest earning days behind them. There will be a shift at some point.

Just be a millennial Indian working in tech. They make insane amount of money for doing shit.

[quote]Well the who's buying all the high-priced real estate? If not the under-40s, then who.

According to the NY Times between 55 and 70 percent of homes being bought now are being financed with the sale of another house.

In other words, people who already owned homes are simply jumping to a new one.

The rest of that number are people buy starter homes.

[quote] So that will be a huge transfer of generational wealth to the millennials. However, it might be a case of too little too late.

R14 It has always been like that.

I would like that!

Gimme gimme gimme.

Americans...smh

Americans are insanely overprivileged.

It’s always been hard for young people. Don’t you remember Meathead and Gloria moving in with Archie and Edith?

Rent is also BS and landlords keep raising it and raising it. This is so fucked up.

None of this is anything new. People have always struggled when they're young and just starting out. The difference now is people believe all the fake wealth and lifestyle bullshit that people post about on social media. It's called DEBT and those people really have nothing from a net worth/wealth perspective.

R24

What’s relatively new, and an increasingly gigantic problem, is that the shit wages are not nearly measuring up to the drastic inflation.

R20 & R21 I don't think Americans are asking for any more than the citizens of other countries. I amazed Americans don't expect more and vote accordingly. There's plenty of money to go around, it's just concentrated in the hands of those that influence the laws and make the laws.

[quote] People have always struggled when they're young and just starting out.

Unless you’re in tech.

It's not the same as it has always been. Basic living expenses used to be lower, with food, housing and utilities, and today people have to have a computer, Internet connection and cell phone--most white-collar jobs require these, anyway, and they are pricey and a constant drain that make it harder to save than in the past, when a person could buy and keep a phone for decades and pay a minimal amount.

And college tuition is insane for people who have made poor choices in universities. I don't blame them, either, for the most part. I am almost 43 and I went to a community college and then to a four-year university. I think I made a wise choice in the end, but I really just followed what my sister did. We were first-generation college students and didn't really know what to do. Our problem was a lack of guidance and money, not poor academic performance. It may have worked out well for us in the long run.

Back in the 90s and persisting among too many today, the popular notion was that students should go to the "best" college they can get into. That would be the golden ticket. So here in the DC area, that means (private) Georgetown, which is supposed to be academically rigorous, or (private) George Washington University or (private) American University. I graduated from (public) George Mason University in VA with a 3.86 GPA in 2001 and about $12,000 in debt (because I worked while in college and was able to live at home and commute). Meanwhile, people I knew chose to go to some of the private DC universities that cost $40,000 per year plus expensive room and board in the city. They were saddled with a hell of a lot of debt but 20 years ago didn't even think about it because everyone at the time assumed there's no better investment than "the best" name-brand education.

My generation really was taught to think this way, and by and large it was parents who pushed the idea. My father, not having gone to college and having grown up poor, told me I could go anywhere I wanted but to keep in mind how much debt I was taking and how long it would take to pay it back. I have friends whose parents pushed them to go to "the best" and who ended up suffering and resentful of their debts. We grew up with different expectations and worldviews. I went to college with countless people who were eager to graduate to start living their rich, well-paid lives aa degree holders and I couldn't make any sense of their ideas of how life was supposed to hand them everything.

Now the cost to attend Georgetown as an undergrad is $76,000. GWU is $74,000. American is 68,000.

Some students like the Trumps are insanely rich and so that is no problem. Other students are taking out loans for the better part of $300,000 for a bachelor's degree, and these are (in my view) children from ages 18-22. It's a really fucked up way to start adult life, and parents advised it for decades.

I'm surprised communes haven't made a comeback.

Real estate is ridiculous now. And salaries haven't kept up. Rents are fairly high even in not-so-great areas, never mind more middle-class areas.

High school diplomas used to mean so much more.

Now, you’re expected to go to an elite expensive college just to earn a livable wage.

If the young stopped wasting money on designer clothes, cars, unnecessary overseas travel, plastic surgery, eating out etc. in order to keep up with the Jones's. they'd be able to afford a home

We tried r26 we had Trump in and now that Dems cheated gas is already up 50 cents a gallon in just one month. Cheap foreign labor has also decimated wages for at least three decades now. Globalization has been an utter disaster.

[quote]There's a huge problem when most millennials don't own homes. (Only 43% of millennials own their own homes. That's less than half.)

I'd say 57% of millennials being fuckups is pretty close to reality. How many of that number have chosen to keep living with their parents because they feel like it, not because they have to? How many could totally afford to move out if they'd live with roommates but won't? How many decided to go get three graduate degrees while putting off getting a job, mostly in useless areas, and are therefore in school building debt until they are 35 years old instead of spending a good decade in the work force while attending school at night like previous generations did? Millennials learned their entitlement at the knee of their entitled Boomer parents. That's what we're seeing.

The inheritance issue mentioned above is something I don't see talked about but should be. People are living for a lot longer and they are lingering and using up every bit of their money, including having to give up their homes in reverse mortgages or by selling to pay rent in a retirement home/community. So, basically, the current Boomer generation inherited from their parents but then used up everything they got from them and everything they earned. Inheritance is not only less in amount but it's coming twenty years later than before. Every other generation would have had their inheritance from their parents by the time they were in their 40s. Now, if there is any inheritance, it's not going to come until those inheriting are in their 60s because their parents are living into their 80s or 90s on average.

We've basically removed one entire generation from the inheritance flow. Boomers will leave no inheritance. Gen X and Millennials are just the start of generations that will not see inheritances. No generations after us will see any inheritance unless they are from filthy rich families. And, the economic divide grows.

Oh, and R33 is a fucking idiot.

Maybe they shouldn't buy overpriced shit.

Serious R33 ? You think Americans pay alot for gas compared to other countries? Ignorance is bliss.

The problem is the inheritance issue. In the past no matter how rich you were, people were really in fate's hand (regarding illness and health care). Nowadays people basically use ALL their money to somewhat live longer leaving their children no inheritance whatsoever. And that's because health care has gotten insanely expensive, thanks at least in part to medical advancements.

Hey, the G.I.s at least had to fight a World War for their financial breaks!

"How are young people who are just starting out supposed to gain footing in this world? " You go out and get a job, and sometimes you get two jobs. I had to do this in the 70s and 80s, and I knew many people who did it, too. You get a roommate if necessary. You save a little each paycheck, avoid any type of debt (except a mortgage), and live within your means. You meet someone and get married - two people working is better than one. And guess what - it somehow works out.

What doesn't happen is someone sits around and whines and dreams that nobody will give them free money or forgive their debt. It ain't happening, gurl.

[quote]I had to do this in the 70s and 80s, and I .....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I WANT IT ALL!

that, and...

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH!

Gen Z should say these famous phrases from video games over and over...

[quote] I had to do this in the 70s and 80s

Oh for fuck's sake. The world is much different now than it was back then. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, among other things.

How about just getting a job?

r44 that's not the problem. The jobs are scarce and/or don't pay enough to live independently.

R43. No, the basic world has not changed. Rent was always expensive, entry level jobs never paid well. People have always had budget and make decisions about their future. What has changed is the mentality that just because you breathe, you are entitled to enjoy an easy life. There is a disconnect from reality combined with unrealistic expectations.

[quote] The economy was doing horrible in the 80s when I got out of college but found a job which developed into a career.

Okay Boomer!

[quote]If the young stopped wasting money on designer clothes, cars, unnecessary overseas travel, plastic surgery, eating out etc. in order to keep up with the Jones's. they'd be able to afford a home

[quote]How about just getting a job?

Okay Boomer!

r46 like many elders here, you are completely out of touch with the modern world. Things are different than they were back then.

"Back in MY day, I lived with four roommates in a one bedroom apartment!"

Today, the landlord would call the sheriff's office

Don't be mad at the world being "overpriced." There is such a thing as healthy inflation. Be mad at stagnant wages and corporate greed for the past several decades.

In her recent Netflix series, Fran Lebowitz mentioned that she rented an apartment in the West Village for $120 dollars a month in the 70s. Today that same apartment would be $3000 a month. Crazy.

3/4 of the fucks complaining in this thread are NIMBY assholes who think everything that has historical significance needs to be preserved and all multifamily housing should have low-income allotments. STFU about housing affordability until you reverse course on that obstructionist bullshit.

How many of these poor kids have cable and/or Netflix, and iPhones?

Americans complain about everything: "I'll only be worth $100,000 when I die, while others will be worth millions!"

Fuck off, you babies.

I keep trying to tell you guys we let way too many immigrants in. That keeps wages low and home prices high. But you keep not listening to me.

“Things are different than they were back then.”

How would you know?? You weren’t around then. But you won’t listen to those that were who keep telling you things weren’t really all that different.

The fact is college way more expensive than it used to be, and you're told the ONLY way to have any semblance of a decent life is to have your bachelor's.

I live in a part of Canada that doesn’t offer much, and it’s oddly become a highly unaffordable place to live. Rental vacancy rates are high now that the prospective boom years of 2008-2011 are long over, yet rental rates continue to increase. I wasn’t smart enough to buy a house pre-boom, so now I live in a house I’ll have to sell when I retire, which is okay because I don’t plan to stay in this shit-hole province, anyway.

r55 student loans, the cost of a college education being much more expensive, the cost of housing vs. wage stagnation, more competition for jobs, some jobs from back then no longer existing. working class and middle class people unable to afford a basic lifestyle that was affordable decades ago, etc. There are many fators.

[quote] Well the who's buying all the high-priced real estate? If not the under-40s, then who. Gen X and the Boomers are nearing retirement, their highest earning days behind them. There will be a shift at some point.

Gen X and Boomers will NOT retire. There has been an exponential increase in compensation since they began their careers. For many these are their highest-earning years and that's what they aren't retiring. They have to earn enough to take care of themselves in a hypothetical retirement AND provide for their children -- who've failed to launch and/or are buried in debt.

R48 then people need to go back to the way it used to be. Do 20-somethings still live with multiple roommates? Make extra cash with freelance and weekend gigs? Not have the latest and newest everything? Suck it up buttercup.

I didn’t live alone until I was in my 30s and became a homeowner at 43. I benefited from Obama’s $8000 first time homebuyer credit. Does that still exist or did Trump kill it? Maybe Biden can bump it up to $10k but $25k is preposterous to even suggest.

Just take a look next time when you're out. The people delivering food, work min wage jobs etc, look at what they are wearing. Always brand new expensive sneakers and phones that cost 1000. They are wearing the expensive apple watches as well.

That is why they are poor

When Boomers were your age mortgage rates were 16% today they’re 2.8%. Every generation is victimized by some crazy shit thrown in their way.

Upset that Covid is disrupting your sex life? In 1985 75% of your friends were dead or dying if you were gay and living in an urban environment.

The trick is learning how to thrive regardless of what life throws at you. It would be interesting to see which fields those with and without student loans work. I bet those in finance have the lowest debt.

R49 how do you think illegal immigrants live? They are all “invisible” so they don’t get evicted. You college-educated, debt-ridden pansies should take a clue from illegal immigrants who aren’t gaming the system. They work multiple, often low paying jobs, and still have enough money to not only live on but send back to their family.

R61

Not true at all. That is not why they’re poor. You can go fuck yourself with that BS. People like you are the problem.

R45, then you have roommates until you can afford to live independently. Just like the rest of the world, just like always. Nothing has changed, except the attitude.

R64, it's not BS and you know it. That is what I see ever day. If they saved money instead of wasting it, always needing to get the lastest iphone, sony playstation etc they would be less poor.

You stupid old motherfuckers bitching about Smartphones, Jesus Christ. I know you're not aware of this, but a smartphone is non-negotiable in the modern world. Esp. if you work in any kind of white collar profession. Just because you've all been shut-ins for the last three decades watching your VHS tapes of Designing Women with your cats doesn't mean the world hasn't stopped changing.

[quote]then people need to go back to the way it used to be.

Nothing ever goes back to the way it used to be. And yes, many young people are freelancing and doing gig jobs but they're still not getting ahead.

The out of touch shut ins here are real pieces of work.

Boomers experienced an inheritance windfall because their Greatest Generation parents went to an early oblivion from smoking, drinking and shitty diets. Gen X and Millennials won't experience this same early inheritance windfall because their Boomer parents are going to live to be absolutely ancient, sucking up every last dollar to pay for their elder care.

r28 provides facts.

[quote]how do you think illegal immigrants live? They are all “invisible” so they don’t get evicted. You college-educated, debt-ridden pansies should take a clue from illegal immigrants who aren’t gaming the system.

Another thing you don't understand. Illegal immigrants are held to a different standard. White college grads would not be allowed to live like that. Many have tried.

R67, No one said anything about having a smartphone. The point is you don’t need the latest every time a new version is released. I am still using my iPhone 6, and it does everything I need it to.

Try saving up for something you want instead of going into debt for it.

R71, that is outright racist. Go fuck yourself you spoiled brat.

[quote]then you have roommates until you can afford to live independently.

The problem is they do have roommates and they still can't afford to live independently. You old assholes are completely out of touch with how expensive the modern real estate market is. Forget about home ownership. And wages haven't kept up.

Sorry r73 but that's the real fucking world.

R67. yes smartphones are necessary but is it essential to have the latest version? you can't work your min wage job if you don't have the latest version? c'mon. you now it's true. do you need to wear expensive sneakers when you're delivery food? Wouldn't you save your good sneakers for going out with friends etc? young people are stupid.

This is all leading up to a forecoming genocide against Boomers by Millennials.

many college grads and young working adults are living with roommates. They are just not crammed into apts like illegal immigrants.

I'm a rich, retired Boomer and I have no heirs. Who wants a sugar daddy?

[quote]How are young people who are just starting out supposed to gain footing in this world?

OnlyFans

Chaturbate

RentMen

R76

Companies basically sabotage older versions of smartphones. They’re basically designed not to last so people buy the latest version.

if you cannot afford college, go to trade school to learn a trade like plumbers, electrician, construction etc. After working for a number of years, you can start your own company and be your own boss. You won't be eliminated by a corporation because you're over 40. Experience is actually valued in these fields.

I met someone who went to school to become a super, it didn't take 4 years but they offered some kind of program in a college. He now lives rent free with his wife and 2 kids on central park west.

Forgiving college debt prioritizes the people who chose to go to college. What about the ones who couldn’t afford to go to college? Don’t they deserve some relief? Maybe that womyn’s studies degree wasn’t such a great idea after all.

People should be paid a living wage. Companies should go back to providing benefits and pensions. In the old days people stayed at jobs for the payoff of generous retirements after years of service.

Focus your ire on income inequality and the behavior of corporations - not in giving reparations to a narrow section of society that conveniently overlaps with your own situation.

R69, my 95 year old mother is living it up in an assisted living facility to the tune of 12K a month. Boomers are in fact the first generation to witness generally greater longevity of their elders.

My family has money, so she can do whatever she pleases, but their are boomers all over the world caring for increasingly elder parents.

R81, Apple got into big trouble for that and had to stop. Like I said, no issues at all with my iPhone 6. My bf has a Samsung Galaxy from the same year (2015).

I just wanted to say Yvonne looks like Jamie Gertz’s dad in drag.

yes, it's hard now for young people esp when companies are getting robots and machines to do human jobs. Therefore, go to a human cashier when you check out next time, don't buy from Amazon, they treat robots better than humans at their warehouses (just ask the humans) and they want to use drones for deliveries etc. That job you have delivering packages for amazon? kiss that goodbye.

They want self driving cars so they can get rid of truck drivers who delivers goods. Don't support any of those things.

yes, it's probably inevitable but we can slow it down.

The government needs to regulate the education industry. Professors and admins at universities are grossly overpaid, which is why they are charging students obscene amounts. This isn’t just a problem for young people now, it will continue to be a problem for all young people going forward.

[quote]Companies basically sabotage older versions of smartphones. They’re basically designed not to last so people buy the latest version.

Another thing the olds don't understand. The cell companies send a remote bomb to make cell phones stop working except for incoming and outgoing calls so people have to buy the new version.

[quote]People should be paid a living wage. Companies should go back to providing benefits and pensions. In the old days people stayed at jobs for the payoff of generous retirements after years of service.

And unicorns could fly out of my ass. Guess what? We live in the real world and have to deal with real world issues.

My grandparents smoked themselves to death 20 years before they would have naturally expired. My mother and father inherited a very comfortable amount of $$$, real estate and investments when they were only around forty years old. Then they have the nerve to bitch at me and my siblings that we're just lazy because we're not living the same lifestyle they did at the same age. When we reply that it was only because they inherited relatively early that they could afford their excessive Me Generation Boomer 80s lifestyle, there are tons of excuses.

Boomers make me crazy.

R91 they’re the worst. I finally politely implied the same thing to my parents, and they got soooo offended.

Perhaps if we olds knew how much money you make and what your monthly expenses are we could sympathize or even empathize. I have a hard time understanding why it’s so hard for you all. I struggled in my 20s and 30s but I made do and made it work. Adjusted for inflation, my starting salary is comparatively the same today. So is rent.

R91, you're just a lazy cunt who wants everything handed to you on a sliver platter.

My neighbor is just another example. She is already in her late 20s and her parents are paying her rent. she calls her folks up every week to yell at them she doesn't have money etc. she works in design. They then drive down from out of state to bring her all kinds of supplies and then bring her out to dinner before driving home.

[quote]you're just a lazy cunt who wants everything handed to you on a sliver platter.

Fuck you you're the cunt. You have no idea how hard I've worked in my life. Typical clueless attack by an ignorant asshole. And if you actually read my post, you'd know what the problem is. It has nothing to do with "laziness."

r94 nowhere in my post did I say that I or my siblings are getting money from my parents. We've all been supporting ourselves for years. We're in our forties.

R95, so tell me how hard you've worked? what jobs have you had?

I’m confused R91 and R92. If you were offended by your parents excessive lifestyle, it only makes sense that you have opted for a more modest way of life and value the simplicity that it brings. And yet the inference here is that they spent your inheritance and your hurt by their selfishness.

My mother is still alive and is very well off at the age of 95. She’s also healthy! I am also financially set, but the money I have is from my own work and success, notwithstanding gifting over the past decade that has been put in a trust.

I was R98 (You’re) 😎

yes, you have to work hard but you have to work SMART too! How stupid are you?!

Did you get good grades in school? Speak a 2nd language? you could start a tutoring service and make some extra money that way. I know some were making 50 bucks an hour.

What other skills do you have?

This must be from an American millennial.

As an immigrant Gen X who has done very well (even if modestly so) for myself given that EVERYTHING I am and have today I had to do on my own without any help in the form of trust funds, inheritances, connections, role models, I can 100% say anything you want is up to you.

Sacrifice, hard work, delayed gratification, and prioritization was never taught to millennials, however. Now they and their Gen X parents and Boomer grandparents will pay the price.

Agreed, social media has had a lot to do with this concept that you can have everything you want now.

#LevelUp #YOLO #My____Is BetterThanYou___ #Lifestyle #BOSSMode #BeastMode #AreYouJealousYet

[quote]I’m confused [R91] and [R92]. If you were offended by your parents excessive lifestyle, it only makes sense that you have opted for a more modest way of life and value the simplicity that it brings. And yet the inference here is that they spent your inheritance and your hurt by their selfishness.

Good fucking lord the reading comprehension on this forum. The gist of my above post is that my parents enjoyed an excessive lifestyle mostly because they inherited relatively early. They think my siblings and I are "lazy" because at forty years old we're not living at the same level. None of us are pissed that whatever inheritance we may have had has been spent. That was not mentioned in my post. DLers have an annoying habit of projecting their own biases and prejudices when there is absolutely no evidence in a particular post to support it.

[quote]Sacrifice, hard work, delayed gratification, and prioritization was never taught to millennials, however. Now they and their Gen X parents and Boomer grandparents will pay the price.

Boomers are the parents of most Millennials.

R101 You're obnoxious is what you are. One thing I promise myself in my elderhood to never do is to become that blowhard lecturing about "Well Back in my Day I Had To"

R28 explained things fantastically. I'm having trouble typing because I'm having a visual migraine or something.

People don't get that, but in the late 80's and early 90's we were told to just take out the loans because you HAD to go to college and grad school, and things would work out. No one believes that but that's what we were told. And we were just teens or young adults so we said "duh, okay!" It is true.

r105 the olds are hopeless here. They stopped paying attention to the world circa 1990 and just don't get how much things have changed. They're still clinging to their own personal experiences from decades ago, as if nothing has changed economically.

I know people whose college-aged children are going to a community college to get their Associate's degree out of the way, then transferring to a state college to complete their Bachelor's. Not that state colleges are inexpensive these days, but it's better than other colleges. In another generation these kids would've gone straight to a big university but the cost is so prohibitive now for many people. They don't want to be $250,000 in debt at age 22.

That’s the smartest way to go IMO r107.

R106, and all others who were so ill-advised and naive: You took a gamble that college debt would pay off.

R41, Add a few more Zs, and you'll have OUR response to YOUR whinging!

See how that works, when you're beseeching my g-g-g-generation to give you a financial handout that we didn't receive?

Take the advice instead of biting the hand.....

R102, my reading comprehension is just fine. If your parents are exasperated by you and your 40 year old siblings it’s not a function of you pointing out their faults. Rather it’s probably their disappointment that they have children with a woefully tenuous grasp of family, economics, and self sufficiency.

Trust me, if it had been your parents who smoked themselves to death at an early age and left you their money, the lifestyle you hold against them is one that you would be currently living. It’s human nature.

And by the way, I wasn’t blaming my parents for ANYTHING by the time I was 35. Know why? Because I was grown up. I was responsible for my own life. As parents they made plenty of mistakes that were more significant than yours living too extravagant a life. But, you know, I was all grown up and moved on.

Advice for the day. Move On.

R10 = horseshit

I hate people who throw around how hard they work. Like I give a shit. It doesn’t elicit one more ounce of respect out of me

We need reparations to everyone who was tricked into being responsible and into paying their student loan debt as required.

It is astounding that a generation that literally grew up with all the information in the world at their fingertips is so financially illiterate.

See R111, you just won’t Move On. ‘Daddy and Mommy are selfish monsters, and I’ll never amount to anything because they don’t give me a salary at the age of 40.’

This is a case of all EQ and zero IQ. You feel a lot of everything, but your inability to utilize critical thinking leaves you in the dust.

I know many "olds" still working today and I don't think they afford to retire. They don't have parents with inheritances to leave them or expect there will be anything left in social security.

R116 if one is old and believe SS will run out in their lifetime , then they are plain stupid!

I just saw some Rancho Mirage 2 bed, tract home for $830,000, posted on DL. No wonder there is so much homelessness. Even a $400,000 home in California is near impossible to find.

the problem with affordability in the US means you have to live in a ghetto with rampant crime as a side effect.

Student Loan forgiveness is a middle class subsidy. Defund the military (the most expensive entitlement program the US has ever had) and just give everyone 20k.

that poster has gone quiet. he claimed he worked "hard"...I asked him to state examples...so far, no response. lol

Most people’s idea of hard work is a crock.

I used to be against inheritance tax, but now I am for it, especially for small estates. It’s disgusting that there are people whose retirement planning is based on receiving an inheritance from a relative. People need to work, earn and save for their own retirement.

Maybe time to consider moving to another country? No offense but your country sounds like a broken hellscape.

better yet. move to canada or UK or elsewhere with free health care and better benefits.

or got to Germany for University. it's free!

[quote] I just saw some Rancho Mirage 2 bed, tract home for $830,000, posted on DL. No wonder there is so much homelessness. Even a $400,000 home in California is near impossible to find.

A person who chooses to live in Rancho Mirage, or elsewhere in California, is creating their own financial problem.

R125 Canada is an exopensive country to live in. The money you save on health insurance goes straight to exorbitant rents/house prices.

R124 It is broken. The US has a strong streak of I've got mine so fuck youism. No wonder we have the worst coronavirus deaths and epidemic in the world.

You could move to Ghana and be a bodyguard for Stevie.

R119

The United States provides military protection and aid to over 200 countries.

Maybe we should start addressing that as well.

^ I meant R120

I never hear anybody address the university and administration bureaucracies and their complicity in allowing the price of tuition reach such a fever pitch.

Surely the salaries of these individuals do not match their worth. Let's garnish their wages.

[quote]my reading comprehension is just fine. If your parents are exasperated by you and your 40 year old siblings it’s not a function of you pointing out their faults. Rather it’s probably their disappointment that they have children with a woefully tenuous grasp of family, economics, and self sufficiency.

Good lord, we're all self-sufficient and successful. Just not as successful as our 80s Boomer parents wanted us to be, i.e. more than one house, luxury cars etc. And your assertions are laughable. Again, you're projecting. Probably because you envy my parents' lifestyle since you're of their generation.

[quote]And by the way, I wasn’t blaming my parents for ANYTHING by the time I was 35. Know why? Because I was grown up. I was responsible for my own life. As parents they made plenty of mistakes that were more significant than yours living too extravagant a life. But, you know, I was all grown up and moved on.

Again, there was nothing in my post that pointed to your uninformed assertions. We aren't bitter or anything, and we're all quite responsible. We just tease them that the 80s are over and they're the ones who haven't moved on. Jesus Christ you have issues.

Get rid of Social Security, that'll scare the current olds into a panic. It won't be around in the future anyhow

Those of you saying that older people just don't get how things are today are hilarious. We're living in this world, too. We also have lived through other times, unlike you. We have something called perspective that you completely lack, not only because we've actually lived through both times but because we didn't do it with our heads stuck up our asses which is especially hilarious when you consider that you are also trying to be haughty as shit while your head is up your own ass. We see you.

My parents bought their first house in 1978 for $28,000. It was a small two-bedroom ranch house in a mixed-used residential/commercial area. They lived there for five years and sold it for $34,000. A couple years ago that same house went on the market for $320,000. And the neighborhood is pretty much the same, it hasn't changed much at all.

How many middle-class people in their 20s who are just starting out can afford that?

r135 again, things are much different than they were in 1975. Or 1985 or even 1995.

R136, what was your parents annual income in 1978?

[quote] but because we didn't do it with our heads stuck up our asses

You certainly ushered in an era of politics like you had your heads stuck up your asses

A one-bedroom apartment in a crappy neighborhood starts at $1100 a month around here.

[quote]what was your parents annual income in 1978?

Barely scraping by.

Again, R137, we are still here living every day in this world. Do you think in 2050 you're going to have no clue what's going on in the world around you? Are you all really this dense?

R141, what was the number?

The boomers that got us in this mess are lecturing millennials for purchasing Iphones. These people are embarrassingly out of touch.

r143 I have no idea but they struggled.

r142 you are totally clueless. I'd love for all of you to be 23, have thousands in student loan debt, insane competition for jobs, insane housing costs and try to make your way in the mdoern world.

[quote] The US has a strong streak of I've got mine so fuck youism.

No, this country has a huge streak of I don’t want to work for things, I just want it fucking given to meism.

r143 how many entry-level teachers can afford a $320,00 house in 2021?

Back in the 70s and 80s a waitress could still survive. That type of job couldn't cut it in today's world.

R146 Whatever you say, Republican Filth

Do any of you olds even know anyone in their 20s or 30s?

If a politician ran a campaign with the OP's ideas as a platform ($50k student loan forgiveness and a $25,000 credit towards a first home, $25,000 home credit available to first-time homeowners under 45) he or she would surely be defeated soundly. By a landslide.

[quote] Those of you saying that older people just don't get how things are today are hilarious. We're living in this world, too. We also have lived through other times, unlike you. We have something called perspective that you completely lack, not only because we've actually lived through both times but because we didn't do it with our heads stuck up our asses which is especially hilarious when you consider that you are also trying to be haughty as shit while your head is up your own ass. We see you.

The same people who like to gloat about how innovation and the wonders of modern technology just ignore the fact that those modern jobs are insanely limited and being trained for is expensive. What's more, those skills are more quickly outdated. The type of entry level jobs that are "crap" and "no one wants to do" are the same type of jobs that used to put people through college. In addition to that, we were seeing record job losses due to the pandemic and are spending our way into hyperinflation which will make the problem worse. The rich boomers have accumulated more wealth than prior generations and are leaving their wealth to their children which means that the real estate market will remain expensive.

when college football coaches are being paid a million a year, and severance pay when they end their contracts ON THEIR OWN.... you know something is very very wrong here with colleges...but oh wait, "that college has a great football team, for sure, i'll attend there because of THAT!".. uh huh...

Colleges that don't teach their students essential skills or are not up to date with current technology deserve to be held accountable. Student forgiveness is just another bailout for their incompetence.

I don't think these elders are bad people necessarily, they just don't have any skin in the game, and would rather absolve themselves of their guilt. That's why they push this nonsense about kids today not knowing how to save and all that crap.

Also, in decades past there wasn't as much competition for many jobs. You could walk into the damn office with your resume and ask to see if anyone was hiring. Now everything has to be done online. One job posting gets 1000 responses. And there are 500 people who have more experience than you do.

My uncle got an advertising job in the 70s by literally walking in off the street and asking if they were hiring. This was a reputable agency in NYC, too. Try doing that today lol!

[quote]Colleges that don't teach their students essential skills or are not up to date with current technology deserve to be held accountable. Student forgiveness is just another bailout for their incompetence.

Absolutely. And the administrative side of colleges/universities has become a bloated monster with so many redundant or even useless positions. We don't need an Office of Gender and Inclusion Management or a Dean of Exceptional Studies with a staff of 75 people under them.

r153 that reminded me that the son of the late U of Tennessee women's basketball coach Pat Summit gets her pension of nearly $150,000 per year! No joke. I have never in my life heard of a child receiving their parents' retirement pension after the parent has died but it actually happens.

R156 as an elder gay R156 has some valid points. i slipped in under the wire at my 25 yr job before HR started heavily screening applicants. I would not have made the cut in that scenario, but succeeded because of my specific knowledge, not because of some HR algorithmic personality profile quotient that got me in the door.

R150, I know many. Two of my colleagues who are under 30 recently bought condos. Both lived at home after college to save money. Neither had significant college debt, one went to a commuter college and the other to a state school. A former colleague is in her early 30s who quit her job to raise kids, lives with husband’s family while they struggle one one income and two large student loan debts.

My nephews are in their late 20s and each own houses. No $ help from anyone. No student debt because neither went to college. Blue collar jobs in NYC metro and were able to buy a single family house well before I could.

For anyone who knows anyone contemplating taking on an unreasonable amount of student loan debt, urge them to reconsider because it really can limit the future.

Wow. Of all the retard OPs in the world this one is the most retarded ever.

r159 also has a good point. Fucking useless HR has become a monster. In years past, workplaces weren't so complicated but of course today HR just fucks everything up for everyone.

[quote] We don't need an Office of Gender and Inclusion Management or a Dean of Exceptional Studies with a staff of 75 people under them.

This sort of hyperbole sounds like crap straight from FOX

r163 it's an illustrative statement.

the problem is that income has not kept up with costs. how can anyone afford anything being paid $7.75 an hour in today's economy?? they're lucky they can eat never mind owning anything of value.

How can ANYONE say Americans are over privileged when we barely have a social safety net? Ya'll are living in lalaland. We pay 20-150k+ for college, houses in the most popular spots are 800k+, health insurance is several thousands a year. oh my god...

R133, I can’t believe you even attempted to respond to my post with your passive aggressive instantly revisionist take on what you originally wrote. How fucking lazy of a mind can one possibly have?

You unravel your own arguments in an attempt to continue decrying my points. As I said before, all EQ and zero IQ. If I continued playing with you for three or four more posts you’d be completely (rather than currently partially) contradicting your own original post.

You do understand after you school your parents on their shortcomings they just roll their eyes and shrug their shoulders, and then laugh their asses off. I hope they buy each other his and hers Maybach’s this year.

You can think about them every time you hop in your Hyundai Elantra.

Eat some shit

The cost of living in the middle class world, specifically related to living costs, education costs, and health care have exploded. I recently needed to have a tooth pulled and will require an implant. And an implant is not just cosmetic. When you remove a tooth, the bone structure around it starts collapsing without an implant and fucks up all the healthy teeth around it.

Assuming it goes well, the implant is $4000. Let's not get into the cost if it fails and i need more work done. And Thats the dental school cost, not private dentist. Before I could even get that finished, I had one filling fall out and another small tooth chip. $600 to fix those. Both were fixed in less than an hour.

My college education cost $120,000. Same school today costs about $240,000. I graduated 20 years ago.

I am currently looking for a new apartment. I looked at the costs in an old building I once resided in. Prices are more than double what they were 15 years ago. Its a 70 year old building without amenities. I can't afford a studio apartment there now.

I know someone who is 40 and graduated with something like $50,000 in debt. He has been making payments since graduation and currently has just over 50,000 in debt after nearly 20 years. This is common, especially among students whose families were "wealthy" enough not to qualify for huge scholarships and had income/owned houses. I could say he made a shitty decision when he was 18, but loans are really complicated.

When I had an issue with my own student loans, the customer service person said he'd never seen a loan like mine. That was during a conversation where he informed me because of the specific loan I took out, I was not able to postpone those loans or put them on hold like other students. At 30, I lost my job and because my parents had income when I was 18, I could not take a break on making payments I'd made diligently until that point.

If I want to buy the same exact healthcare people get on Medicaid, it costs me $450 per month, except I will also be liable for a several thousand dollar deductible. My dental costs don't count towards that.

Meanwhile, one party has turned into a cult that worships guns, "freedom", and the idea that you are pro-life. They've been screaming about this stuff for 40 years now in a culture war that is largely working while giant corporations figure out new ways to fuck over consumers. Look at Texas right now. A few thousand people got rich deregulating the industry, people saved $50-100 per month for 20 years and are now having $1,000-5000 per week automatically deducted from their bank accounts.

r167 again, projection and uninformed responses over a very simple and straightforward post.

[quote]I can’t believe you even attempted to respond to my post with your passive aggressive instantly revisionist take on what you originally wrote. How fucking lazy of a mind can one possibly have?

I wrote nothing revisionist. My parents inherited a lot from their parents at a relatively young age. They say my siblings and I are lazy (we're not) because we are not living in the style they did when they were our age because of a generous inheritance. My siblings and I counter that they only reason they got to live that way to begin with was because of their inheritance. End of story.

You unravel your own arguments in an attempt to continue decrying my points. As I said before, all EQ and zero IQ. If I continued playing with you for three or four more posts you’d be completely (rather than currently partially) contradicting your own original post.

I haven't made any arguments, just posted the simple facts and there is no contradiction. You asserted that we are all lazy jealous cunts because in your uninformed opinion our parents pissed away an inhertance and we are jealous. That was not what I said in any of my posts and it is also not true. That is your own projection that is not supported by facts. You took a very simple and straightforward post and tried to twist it around without any corroborating evidence. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

Poo poo 💩

The parents of R170.

R170

Bitch r172/173 you're the one who started it. Don't make shit up and make false assumptions not backed by evidence. Anyway....back to an interesting thread...

People going on about old people dying off conveniently leave out the fact that they are also working longer. Many of these types welcome hyperinflation as the majority of their wealth is tied to their assets. A smaller percentage owns more wealth than at any point in time. Increased poverty, crime, and social unrest should be evidence of where we're headed but people choose to follow the market which is not an accurate indicator. But these wealthier types live in a bubble and rather seek news which makes them feel better.

We should also strive for prioritizing American production. Capitalism is supposed to enrich the country they serve. That's how the free market should work. We shouldn't be exporting our jobs and products overseas while the local economies are forced to starve.

GIVE ME MONEY.

lol - how about leveling the playing field by working, making smarter choices, and sacrificing - you know, like the rest of us did.

People should be able to use their IRAs/401Ks to put a down payment on a house.

Hillary proposed allowing people to open a down-payment-specific IRA/401k, which is fine, but the government might as well let people use what they already have. Add the caveat that, if the homeowner sells the house at a profit, they have to put the original amount back into their account.

Mortgage rates have been under 5% for more than 10 years. I would not call that overpriced; quite the opposite.

[quote] Even a $400,000 home in California is near impossible to find.

There are plenty of homes in California for less than $400K. Even less than $200K. They're just not anywhere you'd want to live.

How about under $30,000 -- in California. 1440 sq. ft.

Yup. All the above AND the financial planners recommending people in their 20s and 30s contribute 10% of their salary into 401(k) or IRAs.

Those areas are full of crime and drugs. That is nothing like the middle class existence we had up to the late 90s.

I debated someone on a different thread who was bragging about California's housing prices and saying how the last few decades of California policy should be a model for the rest of the country. Insane.

Oh yeah and that the growing homeless problem was because of California's good weather 🙄 .

Yeah r185 it certainly had nothing to do with skyrocketing housing costs!

But of course, those people must just be "lazy" and "wanting everything handed to them," right?

GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME .....

Giving people money will only raise prices.

[quote]But you won’t listen to those that were who keep telling you things weren’t really all that different.

And you won't listen to people who keep telling you that things are different now because they're currently living through or recently have lived through it. Younger people know what it was like back then because older people would never stop telling us.

"Just go door to door and ask if they're hiring!" "Yeah, you mean go online and apply with a seekable resume to their corporate headquarters and hope for an interview knowing that companies have a policy of hiring internally and interviewing candidates anyway to appear fair."

"Well I lived with 18 roommates in an old shack!" "That shack today costs 9 million dollars."

"Stop wearing expensive clothes! Go to the Kmart downtown and buy froot of the loom!" "Sir, that Kmart closed in 2007. I buy clothes from Uniqlo. This shirt was 12 dollars."

"You buy 1000 cell phones!" "Not everyone does that and of those who do most of them didn't actually pay 1000 dollars for their phone. Furthermore, who has an actual home phone line anymore? This cell phone is my computer, my map, my internet service hot spot, required for me to even have a job, I use it to pay for things, I have to be available at all times via cell phone not just to respond to text and calls but to check my email. Also, there's no such thing as a phone booth that takes quarters in most cities so yes, having a phone is great in an emergency. So no, no one is buying a Boost Mobile cheap ass phone for that and besides I share a plan with 4 other people so I pay 25 dollars a month!"

Kids are not the same as they were in 1970. The world isn't the same as it was in 1980. And there are many things that cost more than they did in 1990.

If you're an old shut-in I guess you can get by in the modern world without a smartphone, but that's not an option for everybody else. Smartphones are essential for modern living.

God some of you are so dense it’s pathetic. If your destiny is to work at a minimum wage job — and there is nothing wrong with that — if you ever want to break the cycle of poverty, you can’t pursue that career path in an expensive city. You need to relocate and maybe you will be able to get by.

If you are pursuing a career with upward financial mobility, you need to save and invest money for your future. You can’t buy a pair of shoes just because, or rent pay per view movies every night. You need to have access to the equivalent of six months’ salary in case you lose your job. Assuming you stay employed, continue saving and investing to get student loan and credit card debt paid off. Then keep saving and investing to save up for a down payment if you’re interested in buying a house (a mortgage payment is often less expensive than rent every month).

[quote]You need to have access to the equivalent of six months’ salary in case you lose your job.

And Chris Evans needs to sit on my face. Guess what? For many people that's an impossibility.

r191 is another one who doesn't get it. The cost of living eats into expenses, many people aren't blowing their money on other shit.

[quote] If your destiny is to work at a minimum wage job — and there is nothing wrong with that — if you ever want to break the cycle of poverty, you can’t pursue that career path in an expensive city. You need to relocate and maybe you will be able to get by.

People can't get by on a minimum wage job in Bumfucke, you idiot.

R191 Not everything is more expensive. You could argue that the stuff we used to pay more for back in the day would last much longer than the cheap imports we get from Amazon. The cost of streaming subscriptions is certainly much less than going out to the movies. People are more easily entertained nowadays with social media and all that. Can you imagine living during the pandemic pre internet? However, the cost of living is way, way up. Those expenses you mention don't matter but it's telling that you keep bringing that up.

The important things like health care and owning a home is much more expensive. Cost of living is much more expensive. And jobs that provided security, not necessarily luxury, are either gone or harder to get.

R194, this is the only post that I brought up specific “expenses”/disposable income. I live here too. I am well aware that the cost of living keeps going up and wages haven’t kept pace. I moved out of NYC because it just got too expensive. I am over 40 and know that if I lose my job I am unlikely to replace it with one that pays as much or offers benefits. I save as much money as I possibly can to prepare for that scenario. If I am able to hang on until retirement age I will have a comfortable retirement. My point is that I have been sacrificing since my early 20s.

The actual problem is expectations. Years ago most people understood they would live a modest life, with lots of hard work. Somehow that has all gone by the wayside - everyone wants to live beyond their means.

I went to buy a toothbrush at Target today, and the average price was $6. For a damned toothbrush.

R197

A fool and his money...

I was able to live on $5.10 an hour and out of that I had a car,apt,health insurance (that my job paid for,remember that?) and partied occasionally,as well as just lived. Its ridiculous for people to say these kids today have the chances we did 40 years ago. Not even close. They'd have to be making $25 an hour to have what we had then. I wouldnt want to be young now.

R197, actually a SIX PACK of Oral B Toothbrushes is $2.99 at Target according to their web site.

Some people talk to hear their own voices.

[quote]The actual problem is expectations. Years ago most people understood they would live a modest life, with lots of hard work. Somehow that has all gone by the wayside - everyone wants to live beyond their means.

No, many people just want to live a middle class life but that's a struggle for a lot these days.

If you can't afford the city, move to a cheaper town. Yes, it's nice to be able to live and enjoy the city and all it has to offer but if you aren't saving any money, then you should pack up and leave. You had your fun, go somewhere else to save up for future.

[quote]They'd have to be making $25 an hour to have what we had then.

Even $25 an hour would just barely get you all of that.

[quote]If you can't afford the city, move to a cheaper town. Yes, it's nice to be able to live and enjoy the city and all it has to offer but if you aren't saving any money, then you should pack up and leave. You had your fun, go somewhere else to save up for future.

For the millionth time, it's not just cities that are expensive, it's pretty much everywhere. The area I'm originally from in rural New England has one bedroom apartments starting at $1100 a month. And that's in a crappy neighborhood filled with opiod addicts and Section 8. If you want to live in a "normal" neighborhood, you're looking at starting rents of $1600. And this is two-plus hours away from NYC. You need a credit check plus security deposit too.

You need to find a job that can't be out sourced to another country, or replaced by machines or robots.

I agree that it's harder for young people to save but the young people today have MORE opportunities that weren't available to the boomers like social media. They can have side gigs as influencers and teach via online etc.

I can’t tell whether the boomers in this thread are trolling or just completely ignorant and lacking self-awareness.

Yeah, just be an influencer! There you go.

The latter, r205. It's always the latter.

[quote] If you can't afford the city, move to a cheaper town.

The thing with cheaper and smaller towns is that while real estate is less expensive, are there jobs? Although I guess with covid and the rise of Zoom, maybe that is less of an issue nowadays.

Seriously, if you're old, you can be an influencer too. Just saw a report on it today. They featured a few elderly folks, one of them a 90 year old with huge following and one of them makes $5000 per ad.

The point, r201, is that expectations of a middle class life are not realistic. A true middle class life is much simpler than some people think. If you look at the average middle class post-war life it is nothing like what people consider middle class today.

The Chris Evans crack was so funny that I had to tell my underage kids what I was laughing about.

The toothbrush thing is stupid but true. Companies are trying to get us used to higher prices but we don't have to pay those prices a lot of the time. You can usually buy 88 cent toothbrushes at ShopRite. Or get one at Dollar Tree. But yes, the companies are sliding those prices up so that it will soon seem normal.

I think a lot of us do just want to live middle class lives. We feel bad for the poorer classes but we don't want to be stuck there (and nobody should have to be). Oh yeah, another thing we used to hear in the early 90's was that the quickest way to move from lower class to middle class was to get an education.

r210 it's still middle class, though. And it was attainable for many. Not now.

[quote]I went to buy a toothbrush at Target today, and the average price was $6. For a damned toothbrush.

I've done the same thing, toothbrushes can get up to $8. No way. I just go to the Dollar Tree. It's just a stupid toothbrush, they're all pretty much the same thing.

i get a free toothbrush every 6 months thru my dental cleaning

Move back home to live with your parents, I'm sure the rent will be cheaper.

Be realistic

Recalibrate expectations

Work 50 weeks a year, 2 weeks off

Clip coupons. Be very very thrifty with purchases and expenditures

You’d be surprised how much you can save - if you want to

R203 go further away from NYC. Milwaukee, Charlotte, Cincinnati, are relatively affordable.

R215, that’s not always an option. If I had a kid I would encourage it to save up some money if he could get a job nearby.

Not they're not r217. Not with salaries not keeping up with housing. It's the same all over the US. Or if you can find what passes for "cheap" these days you're living where there are not many jobs.

How ‘bout we make minimum wage a living wage, with or without unions.

Universal Basic Income

Give everyone $10,000 a year and have it peter out as you get over $200,000 a year in income. People who want to can pay off their student loans with it or use it for a down payment. Others can save it. Most will spend it and kick the economy into high gear across the board. It will also lighten the burden on the social services needed across the country and thereby improve them. It would also help out charities. We can lessen the growing economic disparity in the country by paying for it by taxing the rich.

I have nothing to contribute other than posting this Frontline episode from last fall. Give it a watch. All of you.

The title big this thread is " the world...". USA is not the world, maybe your dollar will go far in other countries. Have you looked or explored your options elsewhere?

At some point, we're all just going to have to admit to ourselves that this top heavy economy of shoveling ever more money upwards just isn't working. Also that there just isn't that much useful work that needs to get done. That most work, most jobs, are just artificial and ridiculous and completely unnecessary, at least unnecessary for most of the time people are forced to do them. It's pretty much a charade economy of finance, public relations, entertainment, useless tech and silly whims, like needing some fucking toy within 24 hours, pretending to be important advances, all while everybody races to do the stupidest most neurotic shit in the fastest possible way. Of course it's going to collapse. Why wouldn't it? Why shouldn't it?

Yes, universal basic income giving everyone a breathing space and letting everyone rethink this whole idiotic system would be a step forward.

[quote] I agree that it's harder for young people to save but the young people today have MORE opportunities that weren't available to the boomers like social media.

The gig economy is one of the worst things to happen. No job security or benefits and more competition for less pay.

[quote] They can have side gigs as influencers and teach via online etc.

You wouldn't believe how many people, mostly older, I've come across in real life who say this. It's like telling someone, why don't you go on TV and become a star? Some people are able to parlay their hobby into a Youtube channel but even the moderately successful ones are not getting rich or even consider it a full time job.

And absolutely "benefits" like health care have got to be separated from the vagueries of employment. That's been stupid and ridiculous for decades, but of course we can't admit it until we have to.

R220 How does artificially inflating the economy help in anyway? It's just delaying the inevitable.

R223 I am for Universal Basic Income if we can close the dang border!!!!! Taking in ANY immigrants let alone increasing immigration during a pandemic is madness, but really it just shows how destructive our immigration policies already are.

Hopefully I can convince some of you of the immigration problem. Once you see it, you can’t unsee how almost all of our problems right now are either caused by or exacerbated by immigration.

[quote] Taking in ANY immigrants let alone increasing immigration during a pandemic is madness

It shows that our leaders are only looking out for themselves or special interests. They really don't give a shit about any of us.

I waited tables while in college and met many illegals. they worked as barbacks/porters/bartenders etc. So there was this porter, he managed to buy a house in brooklyn (shitty area at the time). I'm pretty sure he was illegal, I do not know how he was allowed to do this, maybe he bought it with someone else...I didn't ask. But he rents out the rooms in the house to other illegals now.

The wealthy need to start paying their fair share of taxes, that's how it would work.

A friend makes about 4 million a year. He's not a ReThug, but he'd always admits, "When it comes to keeping my taxes low, the ReThugs are the best thing to happen to people like me."

[quote]And absolutely "benefits" like health care have got to be separated from the vagueries of employment. That's been stupid and ridiculous for decades, but of course we can't admit it until we have to.

It is one of the dumbest things ever. I'm not an expert on this topic, but whoever decided to tie health care to employment was a fucking idiot. It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I don't know how it got to be the standard in the US. It's madness.

Or maybe just make Amazon pay taxes?! They pay nothing!

Even if I had the talent to become an influencer, I wouldn't want to do anything to risk being cancelled. I'd rather keep a low profile.

and shit like that drives me nuts r230. What the fuck would happen in his life if his tax rate were doubled? What is the actual trauma and horror that he would experience? One less yacht? One less idiotically overpriced car? One less fucking rentboy? What? What the fuck would be so horrifying to him, personally?

R234 The historical argument is that higher taxes are always passed on to the consumer. You need regulation.

I think you're confusing personal taxation with corporate taxation r235. Taxing some rich guy a lot more would not get passed on to anyone.

Immigration isn't the huge problem some say it is. Especially as so many immigrants are working class, they take the low paying low level jobs most Americans feel they are above doing.

Working class whites would not do half the jobs immigrants so easily accept. They'd rather keep blaming immigration on their refusal to learn new skills. They refuse to accept the fact that changing technology and other factors are the main reasons they're losing their jobs.

These people also refuse to put the blame on the corporations CEOs who have moved their jobs overseas. They never seem to think clearly as to why they've lost their jobs. Blaming immigration is much easier for them.

Where I live, I no longer see white cab drivers. Most are South Asian or Hispanic.

Our weird wink-wink, nudge-nudge immigration system I will admit is a problem. Keeping millions of people illegal does allow for a kind of shadow economy of people who can be exploited and paid shit wages with all sorts of other burdens does bring down wages generally, but only in some sectors like construction, landscaping, childcare, home healthcare, etc. I don't know what its effect on the overall economy is, but I don't think it's the major problem. Worshiping the rich and making their whims and needs the be-all and end-all of politics is a much bigger problem, at least since Reagan.

honestly, arresting a few of the big employers of illegal immigrants would do infinitely more than all the roundups and ICE investigations and WALLLLLLL that every asshole politician can dream up. Not just fines, but serious jail time for some of the rich employers. But I ain't holding my breath on that one.

R237, the white cabbies are now driving uber and lyfts.

[quote] Especially as so many immigrants are working class, they take the low paying low level jobs most Americans feel they are above doing.

Not anymore. Lots of white collar professions have it too. H1B's in tech for example.

[quote] Working class whites would not do half the jobs immigrants so easily accept.

That’s demonstrably false. If you studied economics you’d know that if the supply of labor for a particular job role is less than the demand at a given price, the wage would need to be increased until the supply meet the demand. For any job where there are insufficient Americans willing to perform the work at the current price, there is a wage point at which the supply of American workers would meet the demand. If that wage point should make the cost of the good or service more than what it could be sold for, that indicates that either the type of business or the way the goods are produced is not economically practical and capital should be shifted elsewhere..

R242 A man who knows his stuff. Hot.

I honestly wonder what would happen at this point r242 if all illegal immigrants left the field, literally the field where fruit picking takes place. The mechanistic Adam Smith, David Ricardo theory says what you say. The reality? I seriously wonder.

R239 There are 10-30 million illegal immigrants who are part of the American work force. Crackdowns result in entire industries getting their asses kicked. How else do you think we can grow, pick, pack, ship, and display an avocado that costs $1? They pay taxes and social security they never see benefits from.

Anyone concerned that illegal immigrants have it too good is looking the wrong way while a billionaire picks your pocket. For example, billionaire senator Mitt Romney and Tom Cotton (Republican of Arkansas) just offered to help raise the national minimum wage to $10. What great guys! The current minimum wage in Arkansas is $11. Biden is asking for $15 and $10 is their counter offer.

The current minimum wage was $5.15 per hour until 2007. It was raised to $7.25 in 2009 and has been there ever since.

Bring back government work projects -- working on crumbling interstate infrastructure, Americorps, etc. A year of your life of service = loans forgiven.

I think Biden might actually be moving in that direction r246.

Stark fact written by Robert Reich on Twitter today:

in 95% of U.S. counties, minimum wage workers are unable to afford the rent on a 1 bedroom apartment.

R223, I've been disturbed by the evolution of the "service economy" for a long time. To me, the only way that made sense was to have an underclass of slave wage servicers servicing the rich. It's not like we'd all be providing services for each other because we schlubs can't afford to hire people to serve us. Basically, it's a feudal economy by another name.

there is this concept of the Tyranny of Customer Service r249. It is this odd idea that we must all be slaves to each other, and it's actually a good thing. It's actually a shitty thing, this idea that everyone must be constantly on edge about delivering some fast and stupid service to each other is some kind of amazing way to organize the universe. It's idiotic and we all need a break from it.

we need a better world. we need to do a certain amount of redistibution. I get that there will always be rich and poor. that is okay. But we need to do a certain amount of redistribution. We need to tax the rich more, a lot more, and give to the poor more, a lot more. We need to free ourselves of bullshit about how everyone who has money earned that money. most just lucked out, and we should stop pretending it's all part of some master plan of worthiness.

R230 what does your friend do to make $4m per year?

[quote]That’s demonstrably false.

Actually it's not false, if you got out of your, likely, upper middle class bubble and away from your textbook knowledge/explanation of what you think is going on in the real world, well, you'd actually observe what's going on.

Most jobs which involve hard labor, involve immigrants. Anyone with functioning eye scan see that. Immigrants work extremely hard to achieve the American Dream, Americans simply feel entitled to it, entitled because they are Americans and/or because they are white.

Most immigrants work a hell of lot harder than Americans. I even see this at cashier jobs, all the white Americans who worked at my local drugstores are gone, the immigrants who were hired years ago, remain working there. Same with Costco, most of their workers are legal immigrants.

My floors were put down by Brazilians, they did an excellent job. The owner of the mom & pop store I bought my flooring from is also Brazilian, he likely would rather hire his own, than hire lazy Americans. Americans would also likely demand a higher hourly rate and do a shit job.

It goes without saying, Americans demand more money, yet most of them, especially in the labor fields, are simply not good workers. Many skate by and are protected by their unions. You don't need to look past city and state jobs to see how easily I can prove my point, some of the laziest workers I've ever encountered are American-born city and state government workers.

One of the most exasperating sights I witnessed was watching MTA workers at 'work'. It seems the MTA has been doing 'track work' for more years than I can count. One morning, while waiting for my train, on the elevated part of the subway, there were about eight workers, two were actually working, the others stood around watching them and another was literally sleeping on a bench.

[R230] what does your friend do to make $4m per year?

My friend is a music publisher. He works with musicians and others who compose contemporary classical music. He also publishes the music of people who compose soundtracks for various documentaries and TV documentaries. Who knew that field was so lucrative!

My friend was an art major and also has a degree in music. He had worked in fashion advertising for many years, this is some switch!

[quote]I have nothing to contribute other than posting this Frontline episode from last fall. Give it a watch. All of you.

Why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?

[quote]The current minimum wage was $5.15 per hour until 2007. It was raised to $7.25 in 2009

Yes, I remember. Raising the minimum wage was going to be the end of the economy. In the middle of a crisis! Businesses will close! Millions will lose their jobs! An attack on the heart of America!

[quote]No, the basic world has not changed.

It has, quite significantly, and there are literally hundreds of studies and articles outlining exactly how it has changed, but the problem is people like you think your narrow, individual, personal experience somehow overrides actual statistics and facts.

Couple your narrow experiences with fading memory and an agenda, and your anecdotal experience is virtually worthless. The fact that you can't even understand that says loads about you, and nothing about whether the basics of the world have changed or not.

R200, I just bought Oral-B toothbrushes from Target myself, the kind my dentist recommends are $6.99 for a two-pack. When you get to the age of most of us here on DL, you can't just use the cheapie one-buck toothbrush anymore, not if you want to have any gums or original teeth left after age 60.

The western world is insanely overpriced, go to Asia or Africa and you'll find a cheap place to live.

R231, health insurance was first offered as a benefit by US employers trying to attract returning GIs after WW2. It became commonplace, and then standard. It is probably also the reason insurance, healthcare and pharmaceuticals are so messed up and expensive.

[quote] Immigrants work extremely hard to achieve the American Dream, Americans simply feel entitled to it, entitled because they are Americans and/or because they are white.

I was actually impressed this thread lasted this long without the mentioning of race.

[quote] Americans demand more money, yet most of them, especially in the labor fields, are simply not good workers. Many skate by and are protected by their unions.

Justifying slave wages and calling Americans lazy. Impressive.

In a free market, there is no such thing as "overpriced" because prices are determined by supply and demand. The real problem is the increasing disproportionate distribution of wealth, and stagnant growth in real wages, so that now a much smaller percentage of the population can afford things that formerly were much more widely affordable. The lack of decent housing in many metropolitan districts is a good manifestation of this reality.

Florida Instagram model drops out of college, becomes a millionaire before age 25 by posting ultra-racy swimsuit, lingerie pics

An Instagram influencer model who built a massive following on social media says she’s now a millionaire through her social media career.

According to The U.S. Sun, millionaire Instagram influencer model Alexa Collins, of Miami, said she dropped out of college at age 21 to pursue her modeling dreams.

That decision has apparently paid dividends, with 1.2 million followers on Instagram, a million in the bank and a deluxe pad with a pool.

“I’m a millionaire now, I made my first $1m right before I hit a million followers, that felt pretty awesome,” Collins said in a recent interview.

“My boyfriend Tom and I have even bought a house together. It’s a four-bedroom home, we have a pool in the backyard. It’s really nice and it’s our first home, so we’re excited,” she told The Sun.

The millionaire influencer model says she first launched her Instagram in 2014 and began treating it like a full-fledged business soon after.

“At the time I didn’t see it as a full-time job, I always thought it would be something on the side — but I knew Instagram was the way things were going to go,” she said.

According to The Daily Star, she faced pushback from her family when she attempted to pursue modeling online as her career.

“They were set on me going to school, but I told them ‘guys you have to listen to me, understand this is the new age and what I’m going to do,'” the now-millionaire Instagram influencer model said.

Collins said anyone interested in working as an influencer should be aware of a few things.

“You need about 50,000 followers to start making money, that’s when you become a micro-influencer,” Collins said, explaining she grew her following by “posting more about my life, my routine, how I go to photo shoots and create content.”

Collins spoke with Business Insider last year as well, documenting how she pitches her following and brand to businesses for sponsorship opportunities, and explaining how she built a media kit tailored to her strengths. “I started this a while ago, and it takes a really long time to build a following on an app,” the Instagram influencer model turned millionaire said. “I work with a lot of clothing and swimwear and makeup and hair brands. A lot of girly stuff.”

“Most brands now are putting together deals where they’ll be like, ‘Our deal will be two [Instagram] posts and one TikTok, or two [Instagram] posts and one YouTube video,'” Collins said.

“They’re doing bundles now because they want to take advantage of each platform.”

Social media influencers like OnlyFans model Belle Delphine have also reported recent financial success from their online followings, with Delphine reportedly making $1.2 million a month off her platforms.

Here is a perfectly nice three bedroom apartment in Mississippi for $770. A lot of America is dirt cheap.

What sort of job besides working at Waffle House can you get in Missippi?

Yeah you can live cheap in North Dakota too! Why doesn't everybody just move there?

The wealth gap is absolutely obscene. The fact that Michael Bloomberg spent a BILLION dollars on his presidential campaign. I can't believe how much rent & mortgages are. I live in a small town of 3 thousand people, and I just saw an apartment in town advertised for $1400/month. It's not even a great apartment.

By the way, to Defacto and other people railing against "illegals": Rich people love watching one minority group turn against another. Also, HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT ILLEGAL.

"The Magic of the Free Market" just doesn't cover necessities for all, especially housing.

The free market just doesn't supply enough low-income housing to meet the demand, because low-income housing isn't as provitable as high-income housing. So the trend is all the major cities, or any prosperous area, is that only high-income housing is built because it's the most profitable use of space, and low-income housing is converted to middle-income housing and then high-income, and the poor are pushed into campers, or out onto the street. If the free market provides any low-income housing at all, it's hours or days away from available work, and if the poor can't afford both housing and transport then we're back to living in a camper.

This isn't something that can be left to the free market, because by the time a pandemic starts to "correct" the housing market in major cities, lives are lost to the hopeless downhill spiral of the streets when there's no housing available. There needs to be a nationwide policy that preserves and provides low-income housing, and while they're at it how about some middle-income housing? I'm middle-income, and there's hardly anything appropriate available for older singles, all the housing built is McMansions and 3-4 BR condos.

The free market is just free to make rich people even wealthier.

[quote]Most immigrants work a hell of lot harder than Americans. I even see this at cashier jobs, all the white Americans who worked at my local drugstores are gone, the immigrants who were hired years ago, remain working there. Same with Costco, most of their workers are legal immigrants.

The white ones left because no one had been given a raise for years. The reason there were no raises is because the rich owners knew the immigrants, especially if they are illegally here because they are then in no position to demand anything, would continue to work for the measly pay they were being offered. So, the people you are celebrating are being abused by their employer at the expense of everyone. Keep cheerleading, idiot, the abusive employers are counting on the ignorance of people like you.

I don't know why people don't just have rich parents and become IG influencers on the side! It's easy!

Someone above mentioned that corporations are slowly, but effectively, coaxing consumers into paying more for basic goods and necessities. I completely agree with this idea and feel it's a big part of the problem. There needs to be cheaper, yet quality, alternatives for every basic need. I also think the the concept of luxury has become overblown and bastardized, particularly in the US, to a point where we are paying extra to have luxury where one really shouldn't exist. There don't seem to be a lot of quality, low-cost versions of goods out in the market. I disagree that a smart phone is truly necessary these days; I'm a mid-level attorney and the vast majority of my time on my iPhone is spent on IG and other SM apps, sending meaningless text with friends and family, and checking out dudes on Grindr, with maybe ten percent of its daily use spent on work-related stuff. And any work-related tasks can be done on my laptop. I suspect many people who "need" smartphones have a similar pattern of use. We like to think that these things are essential, but they're really not.

Over the past 5 year or so, I've really made an effort to stop my part in mindless consumerism by shopping at discount retailers, keeping clothing and other goods longer, not wasting food, and just really thinking twice and doing a better assessment of whether I need the good I'm potentially buying. Much of what we own we really don't need in any truly significant way, and it also doesn't need to be top of the line.

I agree 100% r271. Costs for just the basic stuff has risen ridiculously high. A fucking plastic toothbrush costing $8, for example.

[quote] Rich people love watching one minority group turn against another.

They also love to pay their employees slave wages whether they identify as a Democrat or Republican. Of course it serves their interests to whine about how all white people are too lazy.

R271 Sure all those costs add up but goods can be obtained fairly cheaply nowadays because of Amazon's predatory business practices. That's what is costing the country in the long run.

[quote] [R197], actually a SIX PACK of Oral B Toothbrushes is $2.99 at Target according to their web site.

Perhaps that's what's on the website, but what was available at MY Target was a selection of $6 toothbrushes.

That's the way the world works now. What you want (entertainment, clothes, toys, phones etc) are relatively cheaper and what you actually need (education, healthcare, housing) is outstripping wages and inflation. I happen to be in the lucky generation that could get their education and first home when they were affordable. Anyone under 40 did not get that opportunity and very few realised that at the time. We all thought the rise in housing prices were a temporary boom, that a good degree would pay for itself, that employers would continue to subsidise health care and retirement etc. I realise now that I've spent my life strolling through open doors that slammed shut behind me.

R267 rich people love massive immigration more than anyone because it gives them plenty of servants they can pay low wages too. I am not the one who is for the rich raping the middle class here. Of course no human being is illegal, so long as they stay on their side of the Rio Grande.

The free market doesn't even exist, just look at what happened with wall street a few weeks ago. Housing needs to be treated like a necessity and not a commodity or an investment.

Thank you for your self awareness r276!

[quote] What you want (entertainment, clothes, toys, phones etc) are relatively cheaper and what you actually need (education, healthcare, housing) is outstripping wages and inflation.

Great line. I'll definitely be using it.

I'm 57 and it's not at all the same as 30 years ago. Don't forget that when boomers 'die off', there will also be more foreign buyers. It's a global economy now and the US will face stiff competition - especially from Asia.

To add, at some/any point in time, there will always be a "correction" whether or not it's war, climate change and maybe it's already here with COVID. It's like the only thing one can be certain about is that things change.

Fuck student loan debt. The government should cover funeral costs.

Fuck funeral costs, most funerals are held for old people and they've had their entire lives to save for that, students are thrown into debt right at the beginning of their adult life.

Consumers can vote with their feet and only buy in stores where the owners pay their taxes and pay their staff a decent wage.

R285 That only works if there are enough alternatives.

I’ve already prepaid my funeral.

r227, ask yourself: which has reduced American jobs more: illegal immigrants coming to the US, or American jobs going to China? And more importantly, how many HIGH-PAYING (i.e, union) jobs have gone overseas?

Also, consider the multiplier effect of jobs going overseas. It's not just the widget makers, it's HR, accounting, etc. that are at the same plant. And the cafe across the road from the plant where all the workers get their lunch.

r288 the point is there are no jobs for unskilled workers. They can't live off of handouts. I know just because they're brown you think there can't be any realistic assessments of the situation but modern realities are quite different.

[quote] ask yourself: which has reduced American jobs more: illegal immigrants coming to the US, or American jobs going to China? And more importantly, how many HIGH-PAYING (i.e, union) jobs have gone overseas?

Immigration lowers the wages for the working poor, students, and seniors. While outsourcing has decimated the middle class, immigration has had a domino effect in that businesses have to rely on cheap labor to stay competitive and many end up going out of business. It doesn't really benefit consumers in the long run as they keep having to replace cheaper goods and services.

Anyone who went into student loan debt for a bachelors degree for anything over $40,000 is a fucking moron.

You either get a scholarship to a higher priced school or you go to community college for the first two years and a state school for the final two. Also, finish your damn degree in four years. Don't dawdle and take idiot classes because you like having no responsibilities and the partying is so good. Yes, you can live in a dorm even if it's more fun to live in your own place. Grow up, figure out what you need to do, and then do it. Stop whining. You made your bed. Hopefully your children will learn their lesson by watching what their stupid parents did to fuck up their lives.

I wouldn't get so smug if I were you R291. As you old bastards age into convalescence, you will get yours. Nobody will treat you the way they treated elders before. There's a Freight train headed your way

[quote]You either get a scholarship to a higher priced school or you go to community college for the first two years and a state school for the final two.

It depends on what you want your career path to be. If you want to work at Lehman Brothes or a blue-chip law firm a state school isn't going to cut it.

Love u r290 ❤️

R293, then you're just playing along with their game. That is the choice one makes. If someone chooses that path and goes into $250,000 in debt because of some dream that has only a small chance of coming true, that's their problem. They don't get to come whine for a handout while those who were in their exact position but chose to act responsibly are living in the real world.

R292, you seem to live under the delusion that GenX ever thought there'd be anything left for us by the time the Boomers suck the country dry. Nope. We are realists, unlike both giant shit generations on either side of us.

[quote] then you're just playing along with their game. That is the choice one makes. If someone chooses that path and goes into $250,000 in debt because of some dream that has only a small chance of coming true, that's their problem. They don't get to come whine for a handout while those who were in their exact position but chose to act responsibly are living in the real world.

You obviously aren't familiar with this world. An Ivy League degree in a business-related field is a golden ticket. Believe me, the investment is worth it.

r290, what you say is true. But why do we see so much animosity against Mexicans but not against Chinese? Why does no one ever say "Build that wall with China!"? China goes completely under the radar.

[R264] oh goodie I can rent the Mississippi apt "dirt cheap" on my minimum wage salary alright - and have $400+ extra aside from my rent to spend for the rest of the month. I hope the taxes taken out don't halve that - but if they do, I'll still have $200 for food for the month ($50/wk), utility bills, transportation, and health care...whoopee! I might need clothes, but if I get lucky and there's a local food bank maybe I can use part of my food money on a pair of good walking shoes since I sure as hell can't afford a car, gas, or insurance.

Get rid of tariffs. Consumer goods will plummet in price.