Team Plantagenet or Team Tudor?

Richard III was a usurper himself though.

Team Tudor: were it not for the largely forgotten Henry VII, we wouldn't have had the far more interesting Henry VIII, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I.

Team Plantagenet! I read “Daughter of Time”.

R1 Was not! I truly believe that those little bastard Princes really WERE bastards. If we want to talk usurpers, let's go back to the first Lancastrian king, Henry IV, shall we?

Henry's claim to the throne was whisper thin at best, but he defeated Richard in battle, so the point is moot.

My lineage traces back to the House of Plantagenet but the Tudors had such a profound impact on history. Chances are that I wouldn’t exist had they not taken over.

I'm still trying to remember the Norman conquest and you confront me with this?

[QUOTE] R6 My lineage traces back to the House of Plantagenet.

You and tens of millions of other people of British descent.

[BOLD] [italic] "There is an extremely high probability that a modern English person with predominantly English ancestry descends from Edward III, at a very minimum over 99%, and more likely very close to 100%. The number of descendants of Edward III must therefore include nearly all of the population of England, and probably much of the populations of the rest of the UK and Eire, as well as many millions in the USA, former British colonies and Europe, so 100 million seems a conservative estimate." [/italic] [/BOLD]

Team Tudor. VIII told those bastard Catholics where to go, so England would forever be free of papal control.

He was a bit of a Pagan icon, really. Shame about the misogyny, but there you have it.

As with Woody and Mia, I'm with Team They're Both Assholes! Both sides of an argument can be wrong, and proving one side wrong doesn't prove the other side correct; proving one party in a fight to be an awful person doesn't prove the other is good. So...

Richard flat-out stole the throne from his nephew, and in turn Henry Tudor flat-out stole the throne from Richard.

By the time Tudor was left as the last man standing, there was nothing left to say but "Fine, you're king even though your dynastic claim is pathetic, anything as long as the fighting stops!". That, and "Have fun trying to rule the nightmare world you helped to create, you evil bastard".

Worked out pretty well for his descendants though, R10.

After a lot of research over the years I concluded Richard III was a fine military guy and a shit politician who trusted the wrong people.. Margaret Beaufort and Lord Stafford killed the two boys. She was Henry Tudor's mother.