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Have you ever been constructively terminated?

My company decided that they no longer "want" the business of my best client. This is 70% of of my income. They made millions off of them, but they feel the profit isn't there.

I have never been written up, warned.. I had the 3rd highest sales volume in my department and actually won an award last year.

We work with books of business and I am being told "It is what it is" and basically good luck with I have left. Our books are set and we are not allowed to seek new accounts. The company Vice Presidents decide if -and- when we are given a new account to grow. It's like being in a prison. Our base is 30K so you cannot support yourself on it.

I have been with the company for a decade. I have not updated a resume in years and I am horrified at the prospect of what is out there! (Or what is not out there)

However, I have not been this excited in a long time!!! Ultimately I will be dead at some point and this will all be a distant memory!

I am googling how to type up a good sales oriented resume. I am 43 so I am probably going to be up against 22 year olds so this should be hilarious.

A buddy of mine said this amounts to a "constructive termination" and I should ask to be laid off. There is no way I am doing that. But if I even attempted to stay I would be looking at being fired in 6-9 months anyway. My growth will end up being -300%!

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7402/22/2021


I can't relate, but that sounds awful.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 101/23/2021

OP - Sorry you are going through this. Since you have generated so much of your income from your best client, you must have a very good relationship with them. Any chance you could go in-house with the best client?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 201/23/2021

I negotiated a divorce from my last company on this basis. Constructive termination - or dismissal - is defined in law.

So get lawyer's advice. These things can often be negotiated. It seems to me they have fundamentally changed the conditions of your employment, which typically is a big part of your case and their exposure. But U.S. law is so cruel to the employee. I am Canadian. Our law here is stronger that respect - though not the land of milk and honey entirely.

In any event, it's worth an hour to talk options with a shark. My strategy was to talk to (or have friends talk to) anyone they knew in senior ranks in HR and find out who the local lawyers are who HR feared.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 301/23/2021

Ha R2! I have to very careful as I work with a VP on these specific larger accounts who is also in constant contact with them. He is a real cunt.

But yes, I actually brought this up privately to one of my other clients and they told me they would look into any possibilities for me there.

Another (small) client who I talk to privately HATES my company but loves me, and was kind enough to offer me a recommendation to anywhere I apply, which really made me feel good.

R3- Awesome advice, but my gut tells me that I will lose. My company is one of the most despicable groups of individuals I have ever encountered. And the HR Dept is EXACTLY like the horror stories I have read here for years. The turnover in all of the sales departments is 60% (documented) and I don't know how I lasted, as it is. I have considered sharing some stories here as they pretty entertaining. However, It is time for me to go. It hit me like a tons of bricks. And this account loss will truly end in my termination anyway. There are 15 people on my team and 1/2 of us are in this position that 1-2 accounts are truly our bread and butter. The other half of the staff were the "originals", treated like royalty, and cherry picked everything very strategically at the beginning of my departments inception. (They have no bad quarters, all accounts that are massive and successful)

Anyway, I am very interested to see what things are like out there and praying I can get out of my own accord before they fuck me.

And I learned yesterday that they (my company) decline all unemployment requests if you are fired over sales performance. I will have to fight that with the Unemployment office as well..

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 401/23/2021

OP, what industry are you in? I need to know that.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 501/23/2021

R5 again, sorry, also how old are you? How long with the company? Education level? What region/metro area please?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 601/23/2021

Why do they no longer want the business of the client?'

I'm sorry you're going through this, OP, and hope you land in a better position.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 701/23/2021

Are you fully vested with a pension or 401K?

Years ago I worked at a place that got rid of people the year before they were to be vested. All money put into their pension accounts therefore forfeited.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 801/23/2021

company = pimp; client = john; sales = sex

This is Datalounge, after all.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 901/23/2021

OP, that's exactly why you need a lawyer.

Let the expert decide it's hopeless, would be my advice.

My sister worked in HR for years. She said when it comes to termination it's never a question of if, it's a question of how much will it cost.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1001/23/2021

I am 43- And a youthful one. I do not look 16 but easily can pass for 38 :) But it will all probably collapse within a few years so I better get in somewhere quick.

I am in an industry that's pretty specialized so I cannot say- We service a lot of construction and retail clients.

I am in the northeast near a few good cities :)

I was just about to purchase a house and I am ready to move anywhere.

A pension? I wish. I have about 130K in my 401K and I am fully vested. And I know I should have 3 times that. I don't want to be attacked by all the wealthy data loungers.

They no longer want the business because the decision makers at the company have given all the power to someone else who disagrees with our business model. The "new" powers that be decided to "lose" the "business" by increasing costs to the client 3 fold- actually charge them 3 times what they have been paying, so it would "price us out of the marketplace" so the clients would go somewhere else. What we do is pretty specialized and it requires a high level of customer engagement. So this poor client is having to find other companies to provide this service. My company is pretty depraved.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1101/23/2021

your 401 will be fine . just keep contributing for the next 24 years as you have been.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1201/23/2021

OP, sounds like you are an "at-will" employee, i.e., you have no contract. You are free to quit and your employer is free to terminate you. There are only a handful of reasons why it would be unlawful for your employer to terminate you (discrimination on protected bases such as race, or being a whistleblower).

IMO, getting an attorney is a waste of money.

IMO, constructive termination is the wrong term for what's happening. Here's a link to a definition for the term.

Law varies, but if you're laid off, you're entitled to unemployment benefits. If you're terminated or fired without good cause, you can still get benefits (you probably have to challenge a denial).

I would just keep working, don't do anything unprofessional, and look for a new job or new way to make $.

Good luck, OP.

Offsite Link
by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1301/23/2021

“So this poor client is having to find other companies to provide this service”

And that’s YOU. Or you’re the Consultant. Or you bring these clients to a new company. I don’t know what your company does but isn’t this a logical next step? Also if you’re current company has a high turnover and you’ve lasted ten years, wouldn’t it make sense to keep you rather than a newbie who will quit soon? (I know that “sensible “ is not in HR vocabulary here but throwing it out anyway)

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1401/23/2021

R14- I'm beat on that score. I have a one year non compete. And my company SUES.

An its funnier than that. Our main competitor is run by disgruntled (rightfully) employees of my current company. (They are generally an awesome group of folks too) Nothing like the scum bags I work for. We are much larger, but they are going to be benefiting in a huge way over this. But I cannot work for them. For a year.

And my current company actually sued one of their reps who left us to go work for them. They ended up torturing him and the company legally. That person had to assume a non sales role in an unrelated territory for a year until the non compete was up.

Guys- thanks for responding- Its pretty basic and boring and I figured the thread would be DOA, but the advice is fantastic.

I just updated my resume after researching what everyone wants to see today. I am going to start by utilizing linked in and see where it all goes..

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1501/23/2021

OP, why would your employer get rid of a good client as a roundabout way to get rid of you?

Can't they just fire you or lay you off if they don't want you? Why go thru the rigamarole of losing a client for a scam to get rid of you?

Perhaps it really is just "it is what it is" but, either way, looks like you will need to dust off that CV if you want to stay at the pay you've worked to get to - even if it is only to for you to go to your current employer to remind them of your stats and maybe also give them some constructive ideas to get you back that 70% before you pull the trigger on starting anew somewhere else.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1601/23/2021

OP lawyer up. I work for a large, aggressive company too - they always crumble behind closed doors. It will cost them more to fight than give you a settlement.

The joy of being in sales is you can sell anything. I know it is hard to imagine it but man-up a little - do your resume or pay someone to do it. Give a great, personable interview. Very few sales people are at the top because most skate by. If you're a top performer you'll find something much better - and wonder why you stayed at that shithole company for so long.

Onward and Upward, OP.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1701/23/2021


I just reread my post twice to make sure that I did not misconstrue-

Your question- OP, why would your employer get rid of a good client as a roundabout way to get rid of you?

I never said that. What they did was ditch a client by offering pricing on services that would cause them to go completely over budget. also knowing that it is price gouging (at least in my industry)- They wanted to force the client elsewhere.

I am just collateral damage. It wasn't personal. But I am finished, and they just don't care. I never expected less of them. I will hold no value to them from a financial standpoint now. I am probably safe for 4-6 months, but I am getting out as fast as possible!

R17- I do have a proven track record of success and was actually promoted to this position because of it... but the job market must be insane.

I am looking for a side hustle too. I was even going to apply at Target, but I don't want to be hit with the "bad strains".

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1801/23/2021

R16 here. That's for re-explaining to me OP.

I guess I got mixed up because of the use of "terminated" in your description I thought that meant that was their primary agenda. Now I get that you're collateral damage and they just don't care (assholes).

But, still, unless they have something against you that you know for sure, meeting with them to re-sell yourself wouldn't be a bad option but you do sound like you're excited to see what's out there so good luck either way.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 1901/23/2021

[quote]And I learned yesterday that they (my company) decline all unemployment requests if you are fired over sales performance.

You brought in millions with your client and that’s considered bad sales???? No way could that be considered bad performance.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2001/23/2021

OP, could you provide services to the terminated client directly? There’s a lot to be said for self employment.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2101/23/2021

OP, I agree that, at the very least, you need to have a consultation with an employment attorney. You have mentioned some things about your company that seem designed to intimidate employees but are legally unenforceable. For example, I don’t understand how you can have a non-compete without having an employment contract. It sounds like your company is attempting (or threatening) to use legal proceedings as a weapon (costs, etc) to get away with shit they know is illegal.

Was that previous case you mentioned taken to trial or some other type of final resolution? If it is company policy to just try to outspend/intimidate ex-employees from suing (and it can be proved ) that would add some interesting causes of action beyond just wrongful termination.

Again, pay a good employment lawyer a few hundred bucks for a consultation before you throw in the towel. If you discover you don’t have a case, at least you won’t wonder forever if there was something you could have done.

P.S. Find a GOOD employment attorney. Don’t necessarily just go for the cheapest one. In fact, there’s noth8ng wrong with talking to a couple of attorneys.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2201/23/2021

Hey Houston Lawyer- Thank you for that advice.

Yes- You sign a non compete when you are hired. However, I am in Massachusetts where it is apparently unenforceable, but you nailed what they do to intimidate-

They have an in-house council at my company as well as utilize other firms. And they do exactly that- they send letters threatening to sue. Almost like a cease and desist.. And the other company did everything that my company wanted them to. That rep could not even make a living for a year as they were forced to put her in an administrative role. And they also did this same thing to a rep in another part of the country. That was negotiated for a dollar amount- That company said under no circumstances would they terminate that rep, and they would pay whatever my company wanted.

These are essentially hard goods/services we provide. This is not Google or Tech- This is a pretty down and dirty industry with a great group of customers.

I will share some other stories some day when I am free of this. A colleague called me from our corporate office when this all went down and said "You are pretty much fired, right?" Then she gave me some good great gossip. We basically have a demonic group in middle management. And the middle management manipulate the upper management (corporate) in myriad ways. It's amazing the curtain that exists between the two.

Thank you for this advice.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2301/23/2021

I wish we could know what it is you do, because your story is really hard to follow without that information. In any case, I hope you land on your feet.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2401/23/2021

What kind of ass-backward company is turning away business?

Get out of there.

I was just thinking the other day about a small company I used to work for. They hired this little old lady to do some sales and figure out how to save money. She was probably in her 70s, and was a bundle of energy and positivity. And she was a noodge. She pestered a supplier who cut their prices and she saved our company a bundle. She was worth every penny.

There’s always room for a good salesperson p

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2501/23/2021

I’m sorry OP. Being an employee in the USA is ridiculously stressful. I wish you the best and hope you find something better!

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2601/23/2021

are you in sales, or you more in project management (client management)? what industry?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2701/23/2021

[quote]What kind of ass-backward company is turning away business?

Yeah, this doesn’t make sense.

OP, is there something you aren’t telling us?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2801/23/2021

R28- No- I could get into great detail as to why they are turning this business away- I alluded to it above (middle management vs. upper management)

I can say that certain managers get their bonuses off of certain categories.

The bonus structure changed and it is a war zone. My segment of the business does not benefit the folks who have suddenly gained supreme control (and who's bonus structure has changed)

And again, they will be able to say "We didn't turn away anything!" We presented the fee and they declined it!

It's beyond. The VP's in my department are all afraid of losing their jobs due to Covid and other reasons. It is a fear and intimidation based organization.

R27- I am in Sales. I work for a National Accounts Division of a public company. That's all I can say.

One day if anyone is interested, I will give you more specific details. It's the worst of corporate America.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 2901/23/2021

It’s not IBM, is it OP? It’s a notoriously terrible company and this sound like shit the would pull

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3001/23/2021

HELL NO, R30- I wish!

If I told you, you would laugh your ass off.

I once made a very good living in an industry that no one really notices or thinks of. It's as far from tech as you could imagine.

Yet horrific behind the scenes.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3101/23/2021

For those of you asking why a company would not want to continue with a particular client, especially a "good" customer, there are various reasons but usually it has to do with profitability and its impact on the company's GP (gross profit) and OP (operating profit). A company could show a healthy volume of sales with a particular client, but if it's not profitable, it becomes a drag on the firm's financials and can affect a company's stock price If the company is publicly traded.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3201/23/2021

So you could still do “sales” but just not in your niche industry?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3301/23/2021

R33- Correct. And I suspect that I am in for a BITCH of a ride. As I have no tech/banking experience.

On my resume I focused on my proven revenue growth and performance.

I suspect no one gives a fuck anymore about longevity, as that is a plus in my case.

As a younger Gen X'er, I still come from the old days when longevity meant something. Not now.

A good friend of mine is very good friends with a manager of a Mortgage Brokerage firm. I am tempted to offer to work for free for 3 months to get into that industry.

It is refinancing and new ownership. They have been busier than they have ever been, even during this pandemic.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3401/23/2021

R32- THANK YOU. This is 1/2 of this equation. I am afraid that you may be my 1 gay co worker. :) It is the Operating Profit. And this year, the comp plan for management has gone away from volume and growth to the operating side. Basically it has shifted from sales to operations.

The relationship is extremely profitable but the effort involved (financial and otherwise) is not as profitable as it once was due to a very simple factor.

My company cannot find the help that we once had to make these "things" happen (Because they do not pay these folks enough)

So to make these deals happen, they need to outsource help. It is very costly. But the fault lies on my pathetic company for not paying people what they are worth (so we would not have to utilize 3rd parties)

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3501/23/2021

are you in insurance? Construction? advertising?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3601/23/2021

R36. Very close. We service one of those verticals in a big way.

Again, my industry is small and everyone knows each other. Now I cannot wait to quit to update this thread with the hardcore details!

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3701/23/2021

are you newscorp?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3801/23/2021

was your client the mypillow guy?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 3901/23/2021

I don't think they are here monitoring us. I sort of get your paranoia. You need a good lawyer op.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4001/23/2021

Guys I don't think a lawyer will help.

Doesn't everyone have an expiration date?

Was I ever guaranteed that my portfolio of customers would last forever?

The hardest thing is that they don't have any intention of assigning me any other accounts. It's like being left for dead.

Worst feeling in the world, but I am grateful to have enjoyed my clients and worked my ass off and got to make a decent living for a decade.

For me that's the hard thing about being gay (no pun intended). You generally do not have kids and all the bullshit that "straight" people spend their time on.

My job was my life. Long hours. And I can see what a mistake it was to really focus on one thing. I can kind of sense the lessons underneath everything.

And shit, if this was thread was interesting to any one, I will one day share all the details. It's probably good to move on to the next chapter. I hope that there is one!

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4101/23/2021

Bummer your client was Trump.

Dem de breaks.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4201/23/2021

[quote]I am 43- And a youthful one. I do not look 16 but easily can pass for 38

What does that even mean?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4301/23/2021

This OP makes up lots of stupid shit. Quit falling for it.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4401/23/2021

apply for a job in transportation. You just know they are on here.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4501/23/2021

Oh jeez. Here they come.

I will update when I have something to update.

Trump was not my client. Nothing politically related at all.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4601/23/2021

I am sorry for the situation and the shock OP. Get a lawyer to figure out a way you can be laid off. Collect unemployment and look for a new job. Its also important just to get out of a toxic situation. FAST. It will hurt your energy when looking for a new job.

I would be tempted to run away and find whatever job I could - just so long as it is not at that company.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4701/23/2021

Very interesting story. I'm intrigued. My mother works in finance and the political situation of who gets what is always entertaining to hear, but seems hellish to work in. Speak to a lawyer- maybe they can't help, but it would be better to hear it from them rather than just assuming it.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4801/23/2021


by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 4901/23/2021

R47- I know me, and I know that I will probably never contact an attorney. But Houston lawyer above certainly tempted me. And I 100% agree. Energetically you don't ever leave a situation angry/stressed and enter a new one. You continue to enter the same kind of situation. I am trying to make peace with the entire thing and move on as calmly as possible. But if things gets worse, I will consider it. I am not a pussy and will absolutely be reaching out to the VP of mu department before I am driven out. And it will be on ZOOM so the motherfucker has to see my face.

R48- It is 100% political. At my company, the elite of the group work at the corporate office. I am the latter half of hires who work remotely at satellite offices. It makes all the difference. I was actually told this by someone above me. "It's political" was the exact term he used. He was actually terminated a year ago. Basically, if you work at the corporate office, you are protected- if you don't- you are not. He warned me when I was promoted, as I was already concerned that the business portfolio was not diverse. It was primarily skewed to the business I have now lost. And I am no fool. I was promoted because I was the 2nd ranked salesperson in the company in my other role. I knew I was fucked from the get go. When I voiced my concerns at the beginning, I was basically told that I accepted the offer as it was. And its true, I did. That's on me.

R49, Stop it. I am not. I have posted before about how I have lost 1/2 of my income in 2020 due to Covid. I didn't even mention that part here. That's because all of these "deals" were cancelled due to Covid last year. These deals my company is turning down are the same "deals" that were cancelled last year- and there are new ones that were added.. Not an EST. We are sending proposals that are +3 TIMES+ what they were last year- To add insult to injury. The client is being given the added "fuck you" of blatantly being ripped off, as they are looking at the proposals from last year vs. the ones from this year. It looks absolutely horrible and my reputation with them is ruined. I am made to be the "face/voice" of the account.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5001/23/2021

Yeah, that’s adding insult to injury OP. You are still in your “vital” years, just to give you my perspective.

I lost my decades-long job 2 years ago and only recently became employed again. It has been ugly, not the least for my deep feelings of betrayal. Also I discovered how my former company had made money on a side-business, illegally. Waiting for that to catch up with them, if it ever does. I think watching Trump get away with shit time and again was like a projection of how I saw my former company. My health suffered so much due to the aggravation.

Anyways, I decided to move on mentally as best as I could. Didn’t hire a lawyer, just tried to keep the wolf from the door and keep the faith. The wheel has turned, and I have emerged with a spotless reputation and a newfound appreciation for living a simpler life. Get your ducks in a row and get out of there.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5101/23/2021

R51- I very much understand. The feelings of betrayal and isolation literally are the first feelings I experience when I wake up in the AM. When your livelihood is taken, it is a game changer. Its always in my stomach area- probably the solar plexus- "The power center"..

And the Trump/political climate has directly mirrored my situation. And I have said this out loud to myself numerous times, "This company is a microcosm of America!" And it is.

And your last paragraph gives me hope. I really appreciate it.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5201/23/2021

Just an update. I was alerted for a Zoom Meeting with VP of Sales this Thursday.

I will let you know what happens.

I am basically going to ask for an updated portfolio with new business to grow, but I suspect that will hasten my termination.

My company does follow a strict protocol for "performance plans" to terminate someone- and I have never been on one or even warned.

We shall see-

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5301/25/2021

I was there ten years ago OP, and at 49 years old. Good luck.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5401/25/2021

Thanks R54! Worst (or best?) case is that I will have 4-6 months to find a new job. I had the resume updated this weekend and I am updating my LinkedIn profile tonight..

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5501/25/2021

Re constructive discharge - you would most likely need to tie your facts to some kind of prohibited discrimination.

Fortunately you now can rely on the ADEA (you're over 40) and Title VII (presumably gay).

People erroneously think "bad situation" = constructive discharge. However for employment laws to protect you, apparently an at-will employee, you need that discrimination element.

I will say this, doesn't sound like constructive discharge to me. Just a business decision that sucks for you.

Talk to a lawyer and be willing to fight if you really think something is there. But "political" really undermines that.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5601/25/2021

OP, any update?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5702/04/2021

Yes, I have been constructively terminated. More than once. What OP is describing sounds like a constructive dismissal/termination, but it's much more civilized than what I experienced. OP just seems to be collateral damage in a war between his employer & his biggest client.

My experience with with this sort of thing has been much more sinister. Full on sabotage by management. Such as moving me over to a different assignment than my colleagues & then switching me back much later. So that by the time I'm back on the same assignment as co-workers, I'm behind and not as knowledgeable.

Another common tactic by upper management is instructing your immediate management & co-workers to try to involve you in a HR worthy incident by any means. If your record is clean and they aren't successful in dragging you into an incident that could potentially get you fired, they'll stage a work fight (incident) in front of you. So now you've been put in a position where if you side with Jack (participant # 1), you've now angered Jane (participant # 2) and her workplace allies. Or if you side with Jane, you've now angered Jack and his workplace allies.

And those are just a few of the endless deceitful tactics that companies use when you've got a clean work record but they want you out. OP, it sounds like you got off easy!

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5802/04/2021

"Constructively terminated."

What IS this bullshit??????

I am screaming.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 5902/04/2021

Three words that will solve all of your problems OP:

Start “an” OnlyFans

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6002/04/2021

R59, it's basically your employer saying "Bitch, I'm firing you but I'm not going to tell you that and risk a lawsuit/having to shell out additional money, etc. So I'm going to make it extremely difficult and downright impossible for you to perform your job until you quit. And in the meantime I'll instruct management, HR & your colleagues to gaslight the fuck out of you about what's going on."

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6102/04/2021

R61 hit the nail on it's head. That's exactly how it works.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6202/05/2021

Wait, what?

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6302/07/2021

when everyone else was moved to working home remotely rather than allowing those of us that had been doing it for years before to train them, they hired new people to do it while cutting hours with the excuse they had to give it over to the new people with bs like well, they have children, they aren't accustomed to it, blah, blah, blah as they inevitably they laid us off. My situation was predictable since I was expected to travel in addition to working remotely and that was obviously shutdown, so I was pretty useless but many of my fellow remote workers had more of a legit reason to stay within the company. honestly, I'm surprised some of them didn't take the company down as they left.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6402/07/2021

R64, I don't think your situation counts as a Constructive Termination. It just sounds like your employer is shady and used the pandemic as an excuse to dump more expensive veteran employees for cheaper new hires

Constructive Termination/Dismissal is what R61 is describing.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6502/07/2021

I suspected I was being constructively terminated but didn't know for sure for a couple years. I quit because I couldn't do my job anymore. I worked in care auditing and quality of care issues for an insurer.

My department was chronically understaffed. I was often the only employee in the department, esp. after my boss (a nurse) got fired for possession of meth on the job. I thought when she was gone that things would get better but they did not. My boss's boss would not return emails or phone calls and he was never in the office - turned out because he was running his family's restaurant on the side. I was often confused about deadlines, details, but managed to get my work done on time.

I had 2 other coworkers who were splitting their time with me/in my dept. They were subject to the same bizarre treatment. One of them abruptly quit because my employer wouldn't honor his pre-employment contract raises. That left me and Marsha.

They moved Marsha and me to work at home while they claimed they were renovating our offices - said renovations were never completed btw. We could not get work done from home. Even though I had gigabit internet, I could not connect and stay connected to the work VPN. It created a lot of problems getting anything done.

I had a guy from the cable company come out and run a bunch of tests. He said, "Something on their end is messing up your connection. It doesn't make sense but it seems like they're deliberately throttling it [and doing other shit I don't remember what he said to cause it to disconnect]." I asked IT, and one sweet employee there hinted at the problem when she said, "I'm under orders not to talk about it or do anything about it. That's all I can say and I've already said too much."

Marsha was having the same problem. However other work-from-home people were not. We returned to the office and found a couple cubbyholes and we worked from there, where we did not experience connection issues.

Then they started harassing us, giving us weird assignments and changing them day to day, week to week. Occasionally they would restrict our access to the data we needed to get our job done. Since I had friends at the state insurance commission's office, I'd tell them what was going on and they'd tell the CEO to fix the problem. Eventually, my employer's fuckery led to one of our providers filing a complaint with the state over how the fuckery fucked with their ability to work with us. My employer wrote me up for issues related to the complaint - trying to put the blame on me - and I forwarded a copy of my nonsensical disciplinary report to the state, telling them that my employer was up to something but I couldn't figure out what.

I quit soon thereafter for another job. Marsha stayed. They harassed the shit outta her after I was gone. They wrote her up for bogus stuff like not being available during working hours - she was always at the office and always reachable - and then fired her the next morning. She filed an age discrimination suit with the EEOC and quickly won - the whole thing took less than a year.

And the EEOC sent me a letter and a check too (much smaller than Marsha's unfortunately), explaining that their investigation showed I was subjected to the same constructive dismissal behavior that Marsha was, and that it was based on age discrimination. IMO it was also about them not wanting people in our job really doing their job, because insurance companies don't really like to have to deal with provider quality of care issues if they can sweep them under the rug instead.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6602/07/2021

Good for you & Marsha, R66! When I took my complaints to the EEOC back in 2017, I was told by both that if no one made mention of my race, gender or sexual orientation that there was nothing I could do about it. I then went to lawyer who told me that Constructive Termination cases are almost impossible to prove. So I gave up and quit my job a short time later.

At least your incident shows that something can be done.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6702/07/2021

I think Marsha's sudden and stupid firing is what tipped the scales in her favor. Had she quit it may not have been proven. I never found out how the EEOC determined it was age related.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6802/07/2021

r8 at most companies, maybe it's by law, if you leave the company prior to vesting, your money goes to other employees in the plan, not to the company. So the company has no financial incentive to lay you off or fire you.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 6902/08/2021

It has an BIG incentive when it is a small company with 4 principal partners and 45 employees, r69.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7002/08/2021

Hello~ OP here.

I ended up having a Zoom Call with a VP of Sales-

I very calmly pleaded my case.

And let me share something with you all that I did not last time.. I didn't want to go this far into details but at this point, who cares- and its important now.

When I took this position/promotion I knew for a fact that they were paying me $5.00 less per hour in my base pay than the other reps. They did not know that I was already pretty tight with a few of the reps and they had told me their base a long time ago...

So when I was made the "offer" I was shocked. And yes, I spoke up then. I told them that I had more experience than half of the team in our industry and wanted to know why the base bay was $5.00 less per hour than the others were making. I was given a blatant lie that some of them came from Sales Management and that is why I did not qualify for their base pay. That was ONE rep who came from management, and the others were just like me, and many of them were less experienced.. Soon thereafter I was subtly threatened at that time by my current manager, that I was to take to that position or my current territory would be cut... This guy is still with the company and a well known scum bag. At the time I took the position, I also repeatedly told them that I was not comfortable with the book as it was not remotely diverse and all of the revenue came from one/two types of project with the same end client. Same threat was made.

So. I went all in during this meeting. I told the VP that I came from a region based on threats like that and he could take or leave what I was saying, however that the region's reputation is very well known. I told him that I repeatedly requested a more diverse book and pay on par with the others. I ultimately took the position as I knew that I was somewhat fucked either way. I also mentioned that my area in the northeast has a higher cost of living than where 3/4 of these reps are based.

Anyway- This is the interesting part...The VP AGREED WITH ME!!! He said that he had heard things like this OFTEN about my former "region" and the management. He also pretended to be shocked that I had a lower base than the others, and that he "thought" we were all given the same base, like my old department. I was really surprised at how open he was. And it was refreshing.

Long story short, he then said "if someone in that department is going go quit (me) he said, it is really good for them to know why. That is pretty much verbatim. So I knew it was pretty hopeless. He also said that he would review my book with my immediate supervisor, as well as my base pay.

I emailed him a week later and asked if my book was being reviewed as well as my base pay. No responses since. That's about 2 weeks ago.

No write ups, no threats, nothing since that meeting.

Needless to say, I am seeking employment elsewhere.

And I didn't even want to update my dumb story after reading that seriously disturbed stuff by the other posters! My situation is not nearly as dark.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7102/09/2021

And I just got my first call for a telephone interview. lol . So we will see how that goes...

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7202/10/2021

Good luck OP!🤞

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7302/10/2021

Holy cow.

Still at my company. We learned this week that they are "resetting" my department and we are ALL going to lose 25% of our accounts in addition to the developments in my original post...

I am basically living my life like an unemployed person and applying through Indeed and other sites.

I am going to get in touch this week with some Recruiting Firms and I am also utilizing some current contacts from my customer base who are looking into positions with their companies. I am pretty well regarded with my base so at this point I have nothing to lose.

by Boring Post. Felt Good to Share.reply 7402/22/2021
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