WandaVision to premiere on Disney+ on Jan. 15th

What?

Who?

I'm not a huge comic fan, but I did watch the Marvel movies they were in, and this really looks outstanding. Vision is an interesting character, and their relationship is compelling. This is a very "outside the box" storyline, from what I can see. It has something to do with them living in a virtual world as a form of protection...I think? I'm up for it. Looks visually wild.

I hope they don't give them children like in the comics. It never made any sense that an android could procreate. John Byrne tried to erase that dumb storyline but just made things worse and more complicated.

The last I recall was Scarlet Witch and her brother Quicksilver were incestuous lovers. Much to Captain America's disapproval. Will this show explore that plotline?

R5, that was in the terrible Ultimates universe, where SW was then killed off, as was Wasp (eaten by the Blob). These 'radical' comic writers always do this to the female characters, or else turn them into prostitutes.

Meanwhile, Quicksilver is dead in the MCU, so no anyway.

[quote] just made things worse and more complicated

r4 The kids are definitely in it they feature heavily in the trailer. They'll probably just say Wanda magicked them up. Its not overly complicated. It only gets really difficult to understand if they bring in Mephisto and the whole being reborn into Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd parts.

[quote] Mephisto

After the first 2 episode. I'm pretty sure Marvel Satan is definitely involve in this show.

Isn't Evan Peters playing Mephisto in this?

I really enjoyed the first two episodes.

This is a big creative swing for Marvel so different than everything else they've put out, I wonder how it is resonating with the straight fanboys who want to see lots of fight scenes. A love letter to classic sitcoms is right up DL's alley though

It seemed like the pilot was more...Honeymooners/50's? And the second more Bewitched/60's. I don't know anything about this character universe (I'm a New Mutants/DC gal) and accidentally found out that the black woman friend apparently was a Captain Marvel at some point. Does this mean that some of the other characters are also supes?

There was concept art of wonder man and mephisto in a behind scenes

Ah thank you r12. I forgot to mention that black woman friend/actress is also in the Captain Marvel sequel- the first movie had her at 11 years old.

so far it's very dull.

The show had a throwaway line in the first couple of episodes that was clearly directed at the audience telling them to be patient and let them tell or setup the story.

[quote] I forgot to mention that black woman friend/actress is also in the Captain Marvel sequel- the first movie had her at 11 years old.

Teyonah Parris who played Dawn, Don's black secretary on Mad Men.

Monica Rambeau is an awesome character and was, in the comics, Captain Marvel long before Carol Danvers was.

Apparently this show also leads into the next Doctor Strange film, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

People are speculating that Emma Caulfield from Buffy the Vampire Slayer who plays Dot on the show (and was asked to keep her role a secret until the show came on) is actually playing Doctor Strange's girlfriend/wife in the comics, "Clea" sorceress supreme of the Dark Dimension.

Emma Caulfield can't be Clea. She isn't a D cup.

The Olsen girls are all Uggos. The fact that this one is the best looking says it all.

This episode really ramps it up. I think they'd probably have been better releasing the first 3 at the same time.

That 25 minutes went by insanely fast. Another great episode.

I think it’s the type of series I’d rather watch all at once, rather than weekly. It’s a bit slow. I’m hanging on because I keep thinking it will get more exciting, but the week wait in between episodes kind of interrupts the build or momentum.

I like it and I don't know why.

Loving this!

I've seen the first two eps and I'm sort of impressed by the show's commitment to starting slow and, frankly, bland. I know that's a weird compliment but I give them props for not bowing to conventional wisdom and throwing in a framing device or some kind of sizzle to hook us. They know they've got a captive audience and they're proceeding accordingly. Looking forward to more, but I'm impatient and might wait til all the episodes are available.

I’m on episode 2 and already sensing I’m on the verge of a willing descent down this rabbit hole.

During the Strucker Watch commercial, did anyone catch the Hydra insignia on the watch?

[wiki below]

Everything is happening in Wanda's head. Vision is dead, her children have been taken, and she's had a breakdown. Someone (Dr. Strange?) is trying to keep her calm so she doesn't destroy the world. I'm probably completely wrong but I heard it was based on House of M so, I'm going from that.

R26 Interesting.

On a side note, I really do wish Marvel Studios would finally give us a proper Jean Grey movie. She’s my favorite Marvel character and they’ve just shit all over her, going as far back as the cartoon.

I bring her up because I feel they’ve sort of coopted aspects of her character and transferred them over to Scarlet Witch (I noticed this specifically with the films) and it irks me.

Nonetheless, I’m loving this show.

I think you're on to something, R26.

[quote]Everything is happening in Wanda's head. Vision is dead, her children have been taken, and she's had a breakdown. Someone (Dr. Strange?) is trying to keep her calm so she doesn't destroy the world. I'm probably completely wrong but I heard it was based on House of M so, I'm going from that.

I just assume it's Wanda's happy place of her own creation and anytime anyone or anything tries to intrude on that happiness, she just rolls things back or gets rid of them like with Geraldine/Foxy/Monica.

I think there's an organization who is trying to reach her thinking that she is being held under duress, not knowing that she has willingly done this.

I think the symbol on Geraldine/Foxy/Monica's necklace is the symbol of whatever organization it is that's tracking the action.

So since the MCU now pretty much has an entire Young Avengers cast set up, and it'd be surprising if they don't do anything with that.. How do you think they'll handle the fact that Billy and Tommy are canonically gay and bi respectively?

[quote]Everything is happening in Wanda's head. Vision is dead, her children have been taken, and she's had a breakdown. Someone (Dr. Strange?) is trying to keep her calm so she doesn't destroy the world. I'm probably completely wrong but I heard it was based on House of M so, I'm going from that.

I think the twins and Vision are in her head but because of the nature of her powers they're also quite real. She could, during the House of M even bring back the dead with seemingly no strings attached. I think there are very real people who are under her reality warping spell too, trapped. Some of them even seem to realize it occasionally. Then there are a few people who know what's going on and I think some of them are like Agatha Harkness, magical people keeping an eye on her. Wanda is even more powerful than Doctor Strange in this state if it's the same as the comics.

[quote]I think there's an organization who is trying to reach her thinking that she is being held under duress, not knowing that she has willingly done this.

In the comics for House of M, while Wanda created the world it was Quicksilver that convinced her to do it. Magneto kills him because of it and then she brings him right back since she is that powerful. I'm going to guess it was Hydra that convinced Wanda to do this since Quicksilver is dead. However, like the comic, I wouldn't be surprised if she brings him back before all of this is over.

Someone on Twitter captured my favorite moment from this episode when Monica drops her mask completely after Wanda confronts her.

Monica Rambeau is not someone you want to mess with & since she knows how Quicksilver died, she knows how powerful Wanda is and that didn't stop her.

Nextwave Monica is my favorite but undercover Partridge Family Monica is intriguing.

[quote] Wanda is even more powerful than Doctor Strange in this state if it's the same as the comics.

Jean Grey could take them both out with the flicker of a thought.

Wanda has always been the most powerful mutant. Jean Grey is a different kettle of fish. Olsen said in an interview the children are flesh and blood.

[quote] Jean Grey is a different kettle of fish.

Explain.

Jean is more powerful than Scarlet Witch, though the latter’s recent popularity due to the films definitely puts her in an advantageous position which benefits from retconning.

Jean is a Class 5 Omega Level Mutant which basically means her powers have no bounds. Of course, they’ve also unofficially classified Scarlet Witch under the same categories but she’s not on “the list” (see below).

Scarlet Witch is cute but Jean could telepathically annihilate her before her first hex and follow by telekinetically crushing her body to a pulp.

We’re not even talking about Phoenix...

I love this show. Slow reveal, Easter eggs. Very good. Elisabeth Olsen is extremely charismatic. She’s becoming one of my favorite of young actresses

R36 She really shines here.

All I ask is that when it inevitably happens that they don't cast a hetero actor as an older, permanent MCU Billy.

R35 No. More. Mutants.

R26 it's not though, Monica was thrown out of Wanda's fake little world physically, and sword is trying to break into it without success. Monica was likely a mole of them.

Paul Bethany is so gross

R39 Jean’s whole life and existence is a moment that big and bigger.

Is it true that one of Paul Bethanys best friends is Marilyn Manson? Found that odd but also make sense.

R43 His messages with Johnny deep were foul.

Enjoying the slow buildup of this show, since not a fan of Avenger movies, exc Black Panther. I know Disney owns Marvel now, but does it have rights to future X-men film/streanung universe? That's a rabbit hole that they should go down, but may to wait a bit, given recent downright bad movies

R45 They really do need to give X-Men the Avengers treatment. Although it’s already had two unsuccessful adaptations (I did slightly appreciate the second one though), they should do with the Dark Phoenix Saga what they did with the Infinity Gauntlet storyline and spread it across several films.

The Dark Phoenix Saga is one of the, if not [italic]the[/italic], best comic book storylines ever. Spectacularly written and drawn, it deserves a proper adaptation. They never did explore the sci-fi aspects of the story but after seeing how they handled that with their Captain Marvel film, I think they could do it with ease.

I read TDRS (I have the issues in graphic novel form) every couple of years and am always stunned by how intelligent, engrossing, and moving it is. It more than holds up.

Jean Grey is trash and belongs buried in a landfill where trash belongs. There is but ONE queen of the X-men, and it ain't that mohawked pickpocket Storm.

R45, yup and some people are speculating that THIS is how they'll bring mutants in. I guess instead of saying, "No more mutants" she could possibly do the opposite.

They already confirmed that Kevin Feige asked Patrick Stewart to return and he said no only because he felt like he was done after Logan.

R46 Oh, Emma, Emma, Emma... You always did want be what you could never be: me.

Alas, I have defeated you - blissfully, I might add - several times over. I always tremble in ecstasy at the memory of your shit- and blood-stained slinky white bustier and panties quivering under me and reflecting my fire and power.

You were always third-rate, at best. Even [italic]with[/italic] the cape.

*Giggles*. DARLING Jean. The day I want to become a middle-class suburban frau with firecrotch is the day I'll ask that swamp rat Rogue for styling tips. And sweetie, my Dior white bustier cost more your parents' home mortgage and 401k combined. But you wouldn't know a thing about finances, now would you? In your vacuous head, managing wealth is probably "the man's job, teeheehee!".

You see, the reason why Scott lost interest in you, and why Marvel comics lost interest in you to the point where they had to kill you off repeatedly is that you were never interesting nor compelling to begin with. Honestly, the best you could ever hope for is to be the object of masturbatory fantasies of that hairy Canadian midget, and it suits you perfectly... well that and being dead, of course.

To be fair R39, Scarlet Witch "No More Mutant" level power was retconned to be Doom manipulated her to tap into this chaos magic mcguffin (Very Phoenix possessed like) per Children's Crusade. Her real power level is nowhere near that level. She has now been retconned to not a mutant anymore.

Jean Grey also is not that powerful anymore, Hickman showed that she cannot handle a couple of sentinels and got crushed to death in house of X

R51, R35

Per Hickman's last list Jean is still an Omega level mutant but when it comes to telepathy and telekinesis she's only an Omega level telepath like Quentin Quire. So with that in mind, she couldn't handle a couple of sentinels unless they had brains.

The only Omega level telekinetic that we know of is Exodus.

Also R35, Scarlet Witch wouldn't be on an omega level mutant list since she is not a mutant. Mutants call her "The Pretender" now or think of her as the Devil because of "No More Mutants." She is absolutely despised.

r48 Do I have to watch Wolverine before I watch Logan?

I haven't seen an X-men movie since X2.

Jean Grey is an Omega-level mutant, and at her highest and strongest potential was fully merged with the Phoenix Force and with it was able to defeat even Galactus.

R50 The irony of you ridiculing a fire-crotch - has yours ever been quenched? - is staggering. I have a cunt, dear, (pussy if you’re nice) and a juicy one at that. A crotch - a bulging one at that - is something you posses.

You bore me.

The Phoenix Force has possessed so many other Marvel characters at this point -- it's currently moving through one Avenger after another -- that it's cheapened the original story.

R54 Jean Gray committed mass murder. Nothing ever takes away she is a sociopathic destroyer of worlds.

Oh shit. I’ve been away from comics to long. They re-costumed Jean and went back to my favorite costume of hers from her X-Factor days, tweaking the colors a bit.

*too long

I must read this!

Sorry for hijackin’ the thread with all of the Red talk, toots.

Trying to remember my old FF,when Wanda had the twins, and they were fake, was Mephisto behind that?

[R55], Well you would be the expert on boredom, now wouldn't you? Let's see... Scott grew bored of you... check. The professor grew bored of you, check. Your own daughter Rachel from the future grew bored of you, check MATE.

Let's not talk about boredom, since no one could compare will your illustrious 30-year history of boring your fellow X-men and comic book readers left and right. No, the only time when you had an inkling of interest surrounding you was when your so-called pussy was so hungry that it devoured Suns. Now tell me, what man would want to stick their penis in such a ravenous gaping maw? It'd be like throwing a hotdog into the Holland Tunnel.

Darling, men are into women who keep it TIGHT, and pristine. Not wild and immolated. To take some notes dear, and try not to invite more genocidal fiery bird spirits into your body to give yourself some semblance of a personality. There's better ways to be less boring! REALLY!!

emma is a bitchy gay man in a blonde big tittied woman's body, she has always despised jean and envied her, she knows Scott never loved her like he loved jean. Emma does have a pretty tragic backstory too.

R64 Emma is a transvestite. Her self-hatred and the denial of her true self have always been her biggest tragedies and what causes her to be a temporary danger to us all; the operative word being temporary.

I don’t disintegrate her because I pity her and only wish to help her recognize and embrace her truth.

No, the transvestite is Storm.

I do deny my true self, but only out of pity for you, because if I were to truly reveal my glory and shine bright like a diamond, it'd overshadow the rest of you pathetic X-women so much you'd all be relegated to background silent support characters in all the comic book arcs where I feature as HBIC.

Darling, please for your own sake, try not to let your jealousy lead you down dark paths again where you whore yourself out to cosmic entities. Twice was plenty enough.

R52, Jean was S+++ tier in TK under Morisson and was able to perform "Manifestation of the Phoenix" with TK. She should have been able to obliterate Sentinels with TK wave ala The Last Stand. But Hickman homoerotically obsessed with Cyclops, so he like his Jean to be Mom Jean instead.

R63, Jean actually rejected Rachel and ignored Rachel for years. Jean is a very shady person. She also suggested to Storm, right before the vow, that Forge does not really love her (although Jean KNOWS Forge really loves Storm, telepath and all). Storm ended up canning her wedding, and thus, Jean's wedding would not be upstaged.

So what I’m gathering is if you’re not a Marvel nerd, you won’t understand this show.

[quote]So what I’m gathering is if you’re not a Marvel nerd, you won’t understand this show.

You have to at least watch "The Avengers". I've watched the Marvel films but have never read the comics (was a DC Comics fan), but I understand the references due to the cinematic universe.

Yes, indeed, R67, Jean's obsession with putting down others out of her insecurities is well-documented. She tries to play up the motherly nurturing role, but in truth, she has all the maternal instincts of an abortion clinic. Deep down, we all know and see her for exactly what she is - a brute, a bully, and a thug in an ugly bodysuit who likes to commit the occasional genocide of planets.

Me, on the other hand, have mothered and taught 3 wildly successful Stepford Cuckoos, and they've turned out to be preeminent telepaths for the entire mutant race. Jean's progeny on the other hand... well the amount of psychological and emotional trauma they carry from being related to her is just utterly pitiful; it's no wonder they're as poorly-adjusted as they are!

R70 That is hilarious. Because it is true.

Emma seems to be splitting. Tsk tsk.

so far it's so fucking boring.

[quote]Me, on the other hand, have mothered and taught...

Oh, dear.

R53, I’m not R48, but I don’t think you have to watch Wolverine. It’s not a great movie. It’s kind of a capsule story.

Logan goes to Japan, gets mixed up with a old, super rich Japanese guy who wants to steal Logan’s mutant powers and live forever. The old guy’s beautiful daughter, Mariko, is supposed to marry some Japanese dirtbag, but she ends up in Logan’s pants instead. Lots of fight scenes, Old Bad Guy dies and Mariko has to stay in Japan to run Daddy Dearest’s giant business interests. Logan leaves Japan on a plane without her. The end.

Logan is a fantastic film.

Logan is an interesting film because it’s much more realistic than most films in that universe. The concept, of super powered mutants, isn’t realistic of course. But everything else about it is fully grounded on earth.

The film just takes for granted, this is the universe we live in, and goes from there into exploration of the human relationships, old and new, between Logan and Charles Xavier and Logan and his daughter. It’s interesting because it’s set a bit in the future, but it’s a dirty, gritty future like in Star Wars. It skillfully jumps back and forth over the line between idealized comic book stories and characters having become modern day mythological legends, and this earthbound “reality” of people having to earn a living, suffer and struggle. If the MCU was real, it would be this. Bring a hanky.

Are Jean and Wanda our new M and G?

Jesus this thread got nerdy even for me (I subscribe to Marvel Unlimited and DCUniverse).

Let’s get back to the show.

Who are you, Agatha Harkness?

How is Elizabeth Olsen so gorgeous and her sisters look like living toll dolls?

Her sisters were a lot prettier when they were younger. Constant smoking, anorexia and drug use took a toll.

This is what they looked like as young teens. They had a lot more fat in their faces. Now they look like Auschwitz victims.

Some messed up shit must have happened to the twins. And i'll forever side eye the one who was dealing drugs to Heath Ledger.

Here's a list of the sitcoms they're planning to riff off. Next episode in the 80s will be Full House Then 90s Roseanne, 2000s/Malcolm in the Middle and people are guessing 2010s as Modern Family.

[quote]So what I’m gathering is if you’re not a Marvel nerd, you won’t understand this show.

Even us nerds don't understand the show yet!

Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen are doing great work in this. Every time we see Vision in human mode I am surprised again that he is quite a bit older than Olsen...I just find them really believable as a young couple. Then again, Wanda is technically quite a bit older than Vision, so...probably best not to think about it.

Loved the creepy turn at the end of episode three, and great to hear Pietro mentioned. Is this actually the first time he's been mentioned since Age of Ultron?

Bring back Pietro.

Not who you want. But there's a rumor the Evan Peters/ Fox Quicksilver is in next weeks episode as a joke about sitcom recasting.

So dull.

Yeah but this is Datalounge. What we really wanted Aaron Taylor-Johnson's dick. I'm sure they could work it in seamlessly.

VISION: Pietro, is it odd that I fathered the twins yet I don't have a penis?

PIETRO: Gee, you don't have any penis and I have extra penis!

VISION: Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

For those of you who don't know the comic books ... (and there is no reason to think they are going in this direction. They frequently stray from the comic books)

Vision tries to take over the world (for all the right reasons)

He is stopped and basically going to be disassembled.

Wanda is not having it. She breaks him out and they quit the Avengers and try to live a "normal" life.

They have run-ins with various super villains and from one of these episodes, Wanda channels some powerful magic, and her son's are created from this magic.

Dr. Strange examines her (he is both a magician and a medical doctor). He says, "yes you are pregnant with a baby (single baby). She goes into labor, and much to the surprise of everyone, especially Strange, she has twins.

Down the line, it is discovered that the children aren't "real". Yes, they have physical forms, but they have no souls. They aren't real people.

Agatha Harkness (another witch/magician) discovers this, and basically erases them from existence (as well as Wanda's memory of them).

Wanda eventually discovers this (that her children were "erased"), and cracks. She creates an entire reality (with her children re-created). When others discover this, all hell breaks loose, and, blaming her father for her fucked up childhood regarding mutant supremacy, says fuck y'all,, no more mutants, which robs almost all mutants in the Marvel universe of their powers.

My theory is similar to R29. She created this world as an escape because she wasn't all that level to begin with. Two organizations (Sword and Hydra) are fighting to get to her, to control her.

She will eventually be busted out (perhaps unwillingly), but the result will be the opposite of the comics. She won't rob people of their powers, she will give them, as she is sick of being an outcast/different.

Roll in mutants and X-men (which Disney now has the IP for).

Patrick Stewart leaked Kevin feigie wanted him to return as professor x and there's rumors hugh Jackman is returning for doctor strange 2. Wonder if Wanda's craziness cracks the multiverse and causes this.

My issue with that theory R92 (though you could totally be correct), is ... does Disney want to maintain two, separate, cinematic universes? I don't see it.

Unless she merges them somehow, which seems like a tall ask for the movie going public.

A slim percentage of people know all this ridiculous backstory.

[Quote] But there's a rumor the Evan Peters/ Fox Quicksilver is in next weeks episode as a joke about sitcom recasting.

He was one of the best things about those X-Men movies.

[Quote] Patrick Stewart leaked Kevin feigie wanted him to return as professor x and there's rumors hugh Jackman is returning for doctor strange 2.

I thought Hugh and Patrick were done??

R91 Redhead...

Too fucking cute!

Another possibility is that Evan Peters will play the adult Tommy (aka the superhero Speed.) That would also be a good gag.

I don't think they will merge the Fox universe and MCU, that seems way too messy.

As for Young Avengers...I have a suspicion it will be another TV show, because they are very wimpy about putting queer characters in their movies. And it would be crazy to straightwash Billy...right? Right?

In West Coast Avengers Vision is stolen and dismantled and Wanda loses her shit...again. She is neat.

Billy and Hulkling are joining the Guardians of the Galaxy comic, so maybe they’ll be in GG III.

R98 would be worth it just to piss Pratt off. But pretty unlikely. For a start I wouldn't expect Hulkling to even exist before the next Captain Marvel movie whenever that is. And that's if they're willing to give Billy a boyfriend at all, as once they do that they actually have to show them doing couple stuff rather than just having easily editable scenes for the Chinese market of him just mentioning how gay he is.

[quote] PIETRO: Gee, you don't have any penis and I have extra penis!

[quote]VISION: Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Later....

WANDA: Vision, were you planning on making love to me with my brother's penis?

VISION: Of course not, darling. I was going to make love to you with half of your brother's penis.

CUE LAUGH TRACK, HOLD ON WANDA, ROLL CREDITS

[quote]does Disney want to maintain two, separate, cinematic universes? I don't see it.

[quote]I don't think they will merge the Fox universe and MCU, that seems way too messy.

The next X-Men movie will be reboot so they don't have to "merge" the universes.

Kevin Feige has commented on this, when asked if Captain Marvel's Monica Rambeau will be a ramp to the X-Men reboot. He said,

[quote]"In hindsight, in five years if when we're talking about everything that's happened, everything can be a ramp to everything, specifically though, yes, Monica in Captain Marvel 2 and specifically to Wanda teaming up with Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness."

So the X-Men will come about as a result of those two films and after them.

R47, R50, R63, R66, Get in here, bitch.

r99 Hulkling will appear in Wandavision according to 2 reliable scoopers. Kevin Feige seems very impatient with assembling the Young Avengers ASAP. So Wandavision should birth 3 teen superqueeros for the MCU if they decide to keep Speed bi

I've seen the first 3 episodes, it doesn't even feel like the show has begun. Slow paced, clunky but visually stunning. That describes much of modern entertainment.

[quote]The next X-Men movie will be reboot so they don't have to "merge" the universes.

If this is the last reboot, I'm all in. The continuity in the MCU is one of its strengths. It would be nice to see that applied to the X-Men.

BTW I rewatched Age of Ultron this weekend and Elizabeth Olsen is a little thinner in it, enough to show on her face. And yep, she looks better now.

[quote] The continuity in the MCU is one of its strengths. It would be nice to see that applied to the X-Men.

Yes to all of this. I hope they tackle a long arc across several films the way they did with Avengers.

Personally, I want the Dark Phoenix Saga or Age of Apocalypse.

I'm Phoenixed out. What I really want is X-Factor Investigations. But that's a series, not a movie.

R106 They are not going to remake stories they fucked up so royally. And Phoenix really is played out now.

The comic book, S.W.O.R.D. relaunched in December of 2020.

Originally S.W.O.R.D. was an offshoot of S.H.I.E.L.D. dealing with extraterrestrial threats in space.

In the current continuity, mutants live on an island, Krakoa (having given up on living with humans) and they do business with the outside world from there. However, they're also the ones secretly running S.W.O.R.D.

Yes, the same S.W.O.R.D. that Monica Rambeau is part of at least in name. The title features mutants such as: Abigail Brand, Cable, Frenzy, Fabien Cortez, Magneto, Manifold and Wiz Kid.

So Kevin Feige's response as to whether or not this series would lead to mutants/the X-Men is starting to make more sense.

Even that article points out that it's no coincidence this is synching up with WandaVision.

R68 Have you read it? It’s a MASTERPIECE and has so much unexplored cinematic potential.

Byrne and Claremont were the best.

I knew there was a reason I found the twin who could vibrate on command much more interesting

Perfection.

Just sayin’.

No comments yet about episode 4?

It was another good episode but nothing viewers didn't know or guess. Nice seeing certain characters.

R114 What’s been your favorite episode so far? I’ve only gotten up to #3.

I think they should have just worked this episode into the previous ones. It pretty much took 3 whole episodes for Wandavision to get going and now they decide to do an uninteresting break episode to confirm what nearly everyone had already realized about Wanda taking a town of nobodies hostage.

Up to this point I didn't mind the slow pace. But did we really need an entire episode devoted to rehashing the first three episodes from a different point of view? This is reminding me that most of the Netflix shows had padded seasons.

Still there was some good stuff, especially seeing the immediate effects of the second Snappening. Or I guess we're calling it The Blip. Anyway that was some unsettling stuff. Funny I never really thought about how chaotic it would be to bring everyone back.

Seeing dead Vision was also unsettling, as was Vision's barely detectable unease at the very end of the episode. He knows something is up and he doesn't want to discuss it with Wanda. Hmm.

I don't see the point of throwing in Darcey and Jimmy Woo but I guess it was nice to see them again. Anyone else think Woo might be gay? Remember when he thought Scott Lang was inviting him to dinner?

Oh, and I liked that they gave Monica some build-up at the start of the ep. Makes me hopeful that they have plans for her beyond this show. I always liked her back when I read comics, just because her powers are so cool. Getting back to work three days after getting unsnapped...she's a tough cookie.

[quote]What’s been your favorite episode so far?

Favorite episode so far is episode 2 with the magic show. It shows off Bettany's comedic prowess, it was fun and very in line with old time sitcoms.

Episode 4 was good for those of us not familiar with the Marvel universe. But I do think these 4 episodes could have been condensed to at least 3 episodes.

[quote] Agent of P.A.N.T.Y.S.H.I.E.L.D

😂🤣😂🤣

I havent seen it yet. Today's episode isnt the 80s sitcom?

[quote]I havent seen it yet. Today's episode isnt the 80s sitcom?

No. Without giving too much away - it's a complete departure from the format.

Theres been a pretty massive leak for the later episodes if you're not too bothered about spoilers.

r124, I don’t see any real spoilers in the clip. We knew that Tommy and Billy would age with the decade changes, that Vision is dead, that SWORD would have to attempt to confront Wanda at some point and that Evan Peters has a role in the show.

R125 ugh, so the wrong Pietro.

I would rather have seen a HawkSilver show. Like, just the domestic goings-on of Pietro Maximoff (the hot ATJ version, ofc) as he attempts to navigate an unexpected but rewarding homosexual relationship with his elder mentor Clint Barton, freshly divorced and off the farm pretty shaky about this whole late-in-life gay thing. They’re crazy in love, but they’re also kind of disastrous and traumatised plus they don’t really speak the same language and don’t know what they’re doing, so there’s a lot to unpack both comedically and dramatically.

The chemistry is there between the characters/actors. All it would take is resurrecting Pietro, and Marvel is no stranger to that type of fuckery.

I just don’t want to ever hear the Boris and Natasha Sokovian accent again in any Marvel production,

Monica has always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, and Harris is the perfect actress to play her.

R107 I can’t figure out why the X-STATIX property hasn’t been used for a screen-project yet.

It’s topically satirical, very funny and also dark, plus it has a few main characters who are explicitly gay. Maybe I answered my own question..

r129 Or maybe it's cuz Kevin Feige is focused on bringing Marvel's most famous gay couple, Wiccan and Hulkling, bi Speed, bi/pan Kid Loki, and lesbian America Chavez to the MCU as Young Avengers.

Not familiar with X-Statix but it sounds interesting, And hey, we are so super-saturated that there's room for New Mutants as a horror movie and weird stuff like Legion and Doom Patrol, so who knows.

My ignorant question would be, is it a little too close to The Boys? Haven't seen the show but I read a few of the comics and they were dark and sort of satirical, in a "what an angry teenage boy would consider clever" kind of way.

The fourth episode is pretty great. Telling the viewer what is going on and who's behind WandaVision sitcom format.

[quote]Makes me hopeful that they have plans for her beyond this show. I always liked her back when I read comics, just because her powers are so cool.

R118, Monica is confirmed for Captain Marvel 2 which will feature Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) and hopefully at some point (if she isn't already) she'll have powers and start going by Photon since they've been throwing that around a lot.

It's sad, Maria Rambeau is dead but I wouldn't be shocked if she appeared in flashbacks. Although it would be fun if Wanda messing with reality brings her back either here or in her upcoming Dr. Strange movie.

My boyfriend worked on the new Candyman and sad Teyonah Parris was a real piece of work. I like her as Monica, though

Said she was a real piece of work*

Wow, putting together Monica, Carol and Kamala sounds awesome. That should be very fun. I like the team-up movies more than origin stories. (I'm not mad about spoilers but I tend to avoid them, so I'm often unclear on what is pure speculation, what is an informed guess, and what is confirmed.)

Anyway we better get Lashana Lynch flashbacks or something because she was so good as Maria. That character was nothing on paper and she made her so vivid. She was better than Brie Larson if you ask me.

I hope they don't start bringing everyone back from the dead though. I think it cheapens the stories. Bringing back Gamora and Loki was more than enough, and I'm not totally psyched about the possibility of permanently bringing back Vision (or Black Widow or whoever.)

[quote]My boyfriend worked on the new Candyman and sad Teyonah Parris was a real piece of work.

Her being sad may have been the reason.

I love this show so much!

SPOILER WARNING: the 30 second unauthorized leak from episode 7

The thumbnail alone is a spoiler.

Some one claimed on Twitter that evan peters is still playing mephisto and he's mocking wanda by dressing as her dead brother, I think that's a stretch personally. Mephisto most likely has nothing to do with this just like he had nothing to do with house of m. This is all wanda, she went nuts and made a happy bubble for herself to live in. Evan peters is likely just a townsfolk who's trapped in there and dressed up as quicksilver as a nod since everyone knows about sokovia and saw the footage.

[Quote] and I'm not totally psyched about the possibility of permanently bringing back Vision (or Black Widow or whoever.)

Isn't Florence Pugh replacing Black Window??

[quote]This is all wanda, she went nuts and made a happy bubble for herself to live in.

That doesn't explain why she couldn't remember any of her own backstory in episode one. The first time she showed any remembrance was when she was singing the lullaby.

[quote]That doesn't explain why she couldn't remember any of her own backstory in episode one.

If it's like the House of M it is Wanda's doing but only because someone made a suggestion to her that she do it and she's also not quite right in the head.

In this case, there are likely dark forces at play manipulating her so she both knows what she's doing and under normal circumstances wouldn't be doing it.

On one hand, she didn't kill Monica and that throw should have killed Monica. So she obviously meant for her to be okay. On the other hand there are citizens there that are being held prisoner and that's also not something Wanda would do to someone else unless there is someone else doing it or working her so she does it.

Finally it was clear last episode that Vision isn't actually under her control. He shows that he is concerned about Monica's disappearance and even gives her a, "What have you done!?" look at the end of the episode more than once while playing along. A nice piece of acting there.

If she were really in control of everything then she'd be in control of him and she's not. No matter what her magic may have done to put him there he has his own mind.

I’m enjoying this.

I started rolling my eyes at it but kept with it because my partner loves the characters.

Now that it’s developing to be something more sinister, I’m hooked

Someone did take screen shots. He looks directly into the camera at the end of the episode after Monica disappears and he starts to tell Wanda he thinks something is wrong.

He also does a quick look at her, makes a slightly concerned face and then looks at the camera as well at the end as the screen ratio changes.

[quote]If it's like the House of M it is Wanda's doing but only because someone made a suggestion to her that she do it and she's also not quite right in the head.

Yes, episode one and two showed the intentions of the manipulator. In episode one, Agnes tries to spice up their love life, and Mrs. Hart asks Wanda why she hasn't had children yet. In episode two, the intention is even clearer with the repetition of the phrase, "for the children," indicating it's for the creation of the children that all of this is taking place.

R144 I still don't think it's mephisto, might be aim that persuaded wanda to do this instead of quicksilver which he did in the comics.

What happened to the "beekeeper" guy after Wanda said "No!"? Episode 4 didn't show him getting thrown out of town. Did he simply get erased?

r149 We don't know yet, probably became one of the townspeople.

[quote]Isn't Florence Pugh replacing Black Window??

No idea. I tend to avoid spoilers. I'm contemplating avoiding this thread, actually...but DL is the only board I post on regularly and it's nice to chat about the show here. Y'all are funnier than reddit. And crazier.

[quote]What happened to the "beekeeper" guy after Wanda said "No!"?

I'm worried for him lol. Some folks on reddit claim he was "cast" as an extra and can be seen in town in the next episode, but I don't think it's the same guy.

So what do we think about Woo's missing witness? Just the writers' way of getting him on the scene, or something that will pay off later?

[quote] What happened to the "beekeeper" guy after Wanda said "No!"? Episode 4 didn't show him getting thrown out of town. Did he simply get erased?

Wanda told Dottie that she didn’t mean anyone any harm and when she expelled Monica it was violent (done in anger) but Wanda didn’t kill her. So it can be assumed that the SWORD agent is alive somewhere.

I don't think I pictured Teddy being quite as fabulous as Knott seems to be on his Instagram. But we'll see.

Teddy is white, so that would be odd casting.

r154 You mean green?

Loving this show. Here's a leaked audition from the twins

[quote] [R154] You mean green?

His normal form is white. He mimics green.

r157 Hulkling is a Kree-Skrull hybrid who thought he was a mutant growing up. He's has no human DNA. He altered his physical appearance to fit in with the popular kids and later impersonated people to help them grift.

r158, I know he’s not human, that’s why he can change form. However, when he’s not taking the green form, Teddy’s usual appearance is as a blond white character, which are key elements of what he looks like.

Comic book Hulkling's usual human form is Caucasian but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Kevin Feige decided to change it to something more diverse like a mixed Brazilian with blond hair. It also wouldn't be as controversial as other race changes they've made like with the Ancient One, Heimdall, or Valkyrie since they can argue his natural skin color is green and scaly.

[quote] Black Window??

Oh, dear.

They probably wanted someone not White since Wanda's show in show has been pretty White overall. That said he might not be Hulkling since these fetuses r156 look to be playing the twins in the leak of the 2000s episode. Their recast for the 2010s would have to be a LOT older for that guy to be Teddy.

[quote] Isn't Florence Pugh replacing Black Window??

"Black Window" would be a terrible name for a superheroine.

r163 Great name for a Cold War spy though.

[quote]It also wouldn't be as controversial as other race changes they've made like with the Ancient One, Heimdall, or Valkyrie since they can argue his natural skin color is green and scaly.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, unlike the ones you listed.

This just reminds me of when Teen Titans fans were upset they hired a black woman to play Starfire when the character is usually an orange alien.

Heimdall, Valkyrie and Ancient One I see but aliens that are naturally a different color anyway I just shrug my shoulders at.

r165 My point exactly. It won't cause much fuss to cast a nonwhite actor because Hulkling's natural form is that of a green skinned alien. That being said, I don't think he's Hulkling. There's no way Marvel would let someone cast as Hulkling tell the world he's on Wandavision, and he did that over 2 weeks ago with the post still up. They only let minor characters do that.

[quote] There's no way Marvel would let someone cast as Hulkling tell the world he's on Wandavision, and he did that over 2 weeks ago with the post still up. They only let minor characters do that.

He doesn't say he's Teddy, he infers it. And Tommy and Billies actors have had their audition tape up for over a year. That leak from last week is still very available. Hell people knew Han died in Star Wars about a week before it happened. Not even Disney can stop leaks anymore.

r167 1) He's denied being Hulkling, though this by itself doesn't mean much as actors lie all the time when asked about casting. 2) Disney made the actors take down their audition tapes almost immediately. They were saved and uploaded by someone else. 3) No they can't but this was on his personal Instagram. They forced him to take down a picture from the set 2 days ago but let him keep up the posts from over 2 weeks ago telling everyone he's on Wandavision. Again, they only let very minor characters reveal their connection to the show. Even mustache guy, the one who's married to Dottie, said in an interview that he couldn't tell anyone he was on the show, couldn't update his imdb, couldn't reveal anything till his first episode aired.

So chances this guy is Hulkling are slim to none.

The rumor, based on a casting notice was that they were going to cast Hulking but originally he was supposed to be a S.W.O.R.D. refugee that Monica knows. They were looking for someone between the ages of 16-20.

Some people even have speculated that THIS is the person that is in witness protection that Woo said went missing which is another reason why Monica was put on this case in which case, if he's in the town in witness protection he could be Billy's neighbor in the 2000s (when they get there) with the boys aged up.

[quote]Again, they only let very minor characters reveal their connection to the show.

Counterpoint, young actors do this all the time by accident. If he isn't Hulking then something led him to believe he was. He actually knows what he did in the episode and what he said. We don't.

Counter-Counterpoint, it has happened more than once that an actor thought they were playing someone from the books but then realized they weren't playing someone from the books.

Somewhere in Between the Two Points: So maybe he is a skrull but one who isn't Hulkling.

Fun Fact: Nico's mother from Runaways (same actress too) was actually in Doctor Strange's first film with the Staff of One but people didn't realize that until Runaways had already began airing and some crafty viewers watched the movie and saw her.

R161 oopsy daisy

That was more like it. They really managed to sell the feeling of Westview being in a hostage situation. And there's definitely something deeply off with Billy and Tommy. They've got about as much control over the show as Wanda does.

I'm such a geek I got up early to watch the new ep. lol

So Wanda might be going full villain...except....she sometimes seems genuinely confused inside Westview. Maybe the Wanda who threatened SWORD wasn't actually Wanda but the yet-unknown real villain in disguise.

Director Doofus is up to something. He's a little too eager to brand Wanda a terrorist and use force against her. I think SWORD was up to something hinky with Vision's corpse and he wants to cover it up.

Monica is totally getting powers.

This is all super fun. I need to digest it though.

And Evan Peters!

It was clear in episode one that at that time, Wanda didn’t know how she got there. She and Vision indicated as much in episode 5 when Wanda said she didn’t know how all of thus started and Vision suggested that maybe she subconsciously created things at the beginning, but later was cognizant of being in control. It leaves open the possibility that someone has manipulated her and she’s now happy to go along with it.

In an episode with a lot of weird stuff happening this took the cake though.

[quote]Monica is totally getting powers.

Strange how the "X-Rays" (changing herself into them is part of her array of powers) couldn't see anything. As soon as she explained what they'd have to do in order to get in there and said they'd need something made of, "PHOTONS!" to enter (like she did) I figured she already had her powers and just didn't know how to use them yet. She said it was painful going inside of that place so it seems to have altered her forever.

Confirmation that Wanda could have beaten Thanos single handedly if she wasn't distracted by Thanos' tactic of attacking everyone all at once with his ship, which settles an argument on here from way back about Wanda's power levels vs. Captain Marvel.

Monica Rambeau has feelings about Captain Marvel. Either she's sad about her not being around and didn't want to hear about it or she's angry at her about something that happened prior to the story taking place. She didn't even mention that the woman was like a second mother to her at one point.

Why is this thread mostly one person posting over and over?

Maybe they are interested in the topic?

So they reply to themselves?

maybe? i assume lots of folks here respond to their own posts to generate the appearance of enthusiasm for their posts or threads.

Monica might be mad that Carol didn’t find a way to save her mother.

[quote]I figured she already had her powers

Oh that would make more sense. That could be why she didn't care her test results were weird.

[quote]How do you think they'll handle the fact that Billy and Tommy are canonically gay and bi respectively?

Gaylings in Westview.

So no comments on that surprise ending?

I mean... talk about crossing universes!

Sadly, the end revealed was spoiled for many because someone posted a leaked clip. But I found it really fitting for the "Family Ties" inspired episode; he's really like Tom Hanks' alcoholic Uncle Ned character.

It seems that recast Pietro wasn’t cast by Wanda using one of the townspeople, so he may actually be some sinister external party affecting her.

I think this episode illuminates that there is another force at play. As she told Vision she doesn't know how any of it started. I believe her - she just ran with it. Why is Vision's coworker someone who really has no clue that this was a facade and is in a mind-hold, whereas their neighbor, the doctor and the mailman all hint that Wanda is keeping them there and Agnes openly calls out the sham. I think there's another force in play.

[quote] Why is Vision's coworker someone who really has no clue that this was a facade and is in a mind-hold

Abilash (Norm) is very aware that he’s being controlled and that it’s very painful, just like Monica said of her own experience. Abilash told Vision that nothing he had been doing was of his own accord.

HOLY SHIT!

[quote]Abilash (Norm) is very aware that he’s being controlled and that it’s very painful, just like Monica said of her own experience. Abilash told Vision that nothing he had been doing was of his own accord.

I took it that he only was aware of it once Vision did his hand-thingy on him. Unlike the others, even the wife of Vision's boss, he has not dropped hints to Vision that there is something amiss. It seemed, to me, a deeper level of mind control than what others were experiencing.

He seems to be in a deep state of control r189

When Vision touched him his own mind was back, and he knew he was being controlled.

I think Dottie, Norm, Geraldine and Mrs. Hart had a slight dimming in Wanda’s control while she was distracted. When Wanda was watching Mr. Hart choking, hearing Jimmy on the radio, or singing the lullaby, Dottie, Norm, Geraldine and Mrs. Hart had a flicker of being out of character. When Wanda was calm again, Herb and Agnes reverted back into character.

It’s interesting that Wanda can’t control the kids, just like she couldn’t stop the stork. She tried to put the twins to sleep and wondered why they wouldn’t respond to her power. They knew it was Saturday and that it didn’t make sense for Vision to be at work. It’s also interesting that Wanda sent him to work to distract him.

R192 if you know about her kids, you know she can’t control them. They’re also flesh and blood but soulless in the comics

r193

I thought their souls were the original twins that came from Mephisto

[quote] if you know about her kids, you know she can’t control them. They’re also flesh and blood but soulless

A pain every mother knows.

It’s way too confusing. If it’s after Thanos, How is Vision alive? How do they keep skipping decades? I kind of hate it.

I’ve never watched a Marvel or avengers movie but I like this. It’s mind trippy. Where can I read about the backstory and what made her go crazy and create the fake town?

Something about the look of "dead" Vision is really disturbing and thus very emotionally effective for the show. I know he's a robot and thus was never truly alive in the technical sense. But the muted drained colors and caved in forehead are surprisingly scary and dark. I really like the way they did that. Almost like a zombie.

[quote]It’s way too confusing. If it’s after Thanos, How is Vision alive? How do they keep skipping decades? I kind of hate it.

If everything was revealed in the first episode, there wouldn't be a reason to have eight episodes following it.

Agnes seems more lucid than the others. She's also the one who told Vision that Monica is an outsider without a home. I wonder if she's either a hench(wo)man handling Wanda (keeping her busy) and Agnes' boss is the one pulling all the strings or Agnes is the one pulling the strings?

When did Wanda being manipulated start? Before or after she recovered Vision's corpse? I think someone powerful gave her hope that she could revive Vision and have a happy ending with him in her own world. But the one who promised her that must have gotten something in return or got some nefarious advantage out of the deal. And Wanda just prefers not to think about that since all she cared for was Vision to be alive again.

I can totally see Vision giving the "You have to let me go!" drama monologue.

Why did you tell me she's those scary twin's sister! That's all I can see now.

r196 You can always wait till all the episodes are out and binge it like a 6 hour movie or Netflix series

[quote] Agnes seems more lucid than the others. She's also the one who told Vision that Monica is an outsider without a home.

Yes, but the doctor and the mailman also made sly comments. The doctor told Vision about not being able to escape. Herb also was going to tell Vision something apparently more explicit.

When are they going to bring in Polaris? I love her.

Loving Captain Monica Rambeau!

R204 & R205, Polaris and Monica Rambeau were two of my favorite Marvel characters when I was a kid reading comics. I never cared much about the male Marvel characters (preferred DC), but Marvel had (has) great super women. She-Hulk, Dazzler, Spider Woman, Hellcat, Moondragon, Tigra....would be nice to see them all done well in the MCEU. I have my fingers crossed for the upcoming She-Hulk series.

So again why is Evan Peters playing Pietro instead of ATJ?

r207 ATJ didn't want to come back? Or Just because the Fox version is the one audience seemed to prefer given Taylor Johnson's Pietro is a speedster that couldn't outrun bullets.

[quote] So again why is Evan Peters playing Pietro instead of ATJ?

He’s not Wanda’s Pietro. When Darcy said Pietro was recast, she was acknowledging that the guy at the door was not Pietro from the MCU, who by the way is dead.

Thx, altho I think most of us would have preferred looking @ ATJ than EP

Love, love, love WandaVison!

It's so much fun to be caught up in a series, again. Hasn't happened since "Brothers & Sisters" (or, if you prefer, "The Sally Field Programme").

In Ep 5, I can't get enough of Elizabeth Olsen channeling Patty McCormack as Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed".

r210 Its not like Peters is unattractive. And at least I don't have to sit through that Borat accent again

Borat accent would be preferable to Wanda’s bad Boris and Natasha accent.

The X-Men Pietro (Peter) was better received and it also helps build into this multiverse arc that the MCU is shifting into. The show takes place about 3 or 4 weeks after Endgame, so about 6 months before Spider-Man: Far From Home. Wanda is in control to a certain extent but seems to be losing that control, she couldn't wipe Visions mind at the end of the last episode like she did in previous episodes and she couldn't edit out that moment with Agnes asking if she was meant to hold the kids. I think Wanda was at a low point just after Endgame and the marvel version of the devil, Mephisto, offered her a deal to bring Vision back to life and so she took it. Mephisto is now using the WandaVision universe to bring himself physically into the MCU, but now Wanda is having larger effects than even Mephisto planned and she brought Quicksilver across the universe without meaning to. None of the Avengers have shown up yet because SWORD have kept this whole incident on the downlow as they don't want the Avengers to know what they were doing with Visions body, I suspect they were trying to weaponize him or study his technology to create weapons. Now that Quicksilver has been brought across universes I think Strange knows and will show up before the end and this leads into Doctor Strange 2 and Mephisto will have to speed up his plans, I have a feeling Agnes is connected to him, whether she is helping him or not I can't tell.

Captain America, after Iron Man's snap, put all the Infinity Stones back to the point in time from when the Avengers took them.

I sense that after he put them back, Wanda, or whoever is controlling events other than her, figured out how to access them and is manipulating events.

Yes, I have a Marvel-ous grasp of the obvious.

And what r214 said, too.

Can’t believe the reasoning behind Evan Peters casting is going over your heads. I thought you all were “smart”?

[quote]Where can I read about the backstory and what made her go crazy and create the fake town?

There's probably a supercut on YouTube of all her scenes from the movies, but all you really need to know has already been exposited. How she went from seeming relatively okay at the end of Endgame, to this, we just don't know yet.

Not that I really think this is where the show is going, but the writing of the SWORD segments was so pat I wondered if they, too, were being compelled to act out a TV show.

The Lagos commercial brought me back to thinking that each commercial represents a traumatic event in Wanda's life...but I still can't quite fit the bubble bath ad into that theory because it's redundant.

The return of the strong Sokovian accent when Wanda confronts SWORD could be a clue that's not the real Wanda. In the movies her accent faded away over time.

PS Anybody who likes Wandavision might be interested in Legion, another stylish and unconventional show about people with superpowers.

R218 just because you lose an accent doesn’t mean it doesn’t come out on occasion still.

[quote]PS Anybody who likes Wandavision might be interested in Legion, another stylish and unconventional show about people with superpowers.

I watched the first season, but never got around to watching season 2, which I think was the last one. I heard mixed things about the second season, would you recommend it.

Legion went for three seasons and I bailed during S2. It was too dense and convoluted for me. But Dan Stevens was wonderful in it and it was cool seeing another version of Charles Xavier.

[quote]Legion, another stylish and unconventional show about people with superpowers.

Ignoring S2, Legion was great.

S2 took the show so far off the rails that the normalcy of S3 had have been a result of that.

I know a lot of people who quit watching in S2 which is sad because S3 was great when they finally went comic book with characters from the X books.

Regarding Legion S2. I am convinced that Hollywood is run by people who are either scared of success or truly hate successful, creative people.

You got a (surprise) hit on your hands and the next thing you do is say "How can we really fuck this up? Fire everybody and get a new team? Add shit that doesn't fit with the show? Micromanage the shit out of it? Demand the showrunner comes up with a whole new season within the next 24 hours? Or fire the showrunner and let a new guy take over?".

Apparently "don't fix it when it's not broken" only applies to covering up their fellow sexual predators' casting couch assaults.

The thing about Legion is that the longer it went on the more I felt like the writers were just spinning their wheels and had no plan. One of the things I liked about the first season was that I thought they had a complete story in mind, with a beginning and middle and end. Crazy, huh? I stopped watching early in season three because I just didn't care about the characters any more. But it was a very cool and interesting journey up to that point. One could certainly stop watching at the end of the first season. The first season was so good.

[quote]I am convinced that Hollywood is run by people who are either scared of success or truly hate successful, creative people.

David/Legion telepathically raping Syd in S2 put a lot of people off. It was the dumbest move the show ever made. Now no one can like your lead character. The only thing they did to salvage that plot in Season 3 was to NOT have Sid forgive him. Period. End of story. She knew what he was and she wanted no parts of it. Then of course the thing they did at the end of the series put a nail in that.

[quote]When are they going to bring in Polaris? I love her.

Lorna/Polaris was a part of "The Gifted" series. The actress that played her was okay-ish? She doesn't hold a candle to Elizabeth Olsen. The only thing they did right was actually have her be the daughter of Magneto and acknowledge it. It was nice to see a random character or two, like "Tessa"/Sage, Warpath and the Stephord Cuckoos show up on screen in some way.

Otherwise, basing the series around the (in the comic) Nazi Twins, "Fenris" and deciding Blink/Clarice Ferguson is Asian instead of Black and from the Bahamas ... I stopped caring about the characters an episode or two into Season 2. Anyways I'd love to see her but they'd need to do a recast to wash the stink of the show off.

More deepdiving

I too have high hopes for "She-Hulk" because of Tatiana. I loved S1 of, "Legion", and grimly stuck to it to the bitter end. "The Boys" is still going strong.

R228 I'm a little disappointed they didn't cast Alison Brie, the casting call was for an Alison Brie type and I think she would've worked really well in the part.

I adored the first few episodes when I thought it was a pastiche to old sitcoms, now that it is turning all sci fi it is less interesting.

R229, I completely agree. Alison Brie would've been PERFECTION as She-Hulk. Don't know why they didn't go with her. Maybe Tatiana was less expensive. If Marvel is smart, they'll find a role for an actress so wonderfully adept at comedy and drama as Alison Brie.

Ugh can’t stand Alison Brie

I would have sworn the actress playing Agnes was Ana Gasteyer with a good facelift. The bitch stole her schtick.

Even side by side I can't tell Ana and Kathryn apart. I'm still not convinced these are 2 different women.

Could Ana be pulling a joke on all of us?

That is freaky R234.

I tweeted them both the look alike photo and suggested they star in each other's biopics.

This show keeps getting better and better. And I really want to rewatch Malcolm in the Middle now.

over exposed.....tired of hearin bout this piece o shit

"How'd you even do all this?" Pietro asking the important questions.

It seems casting Peters really was a goof, and this Pietro is purely a projection of Wanda's conscience or whatever. Or it could be something else entirely, who knows. But I'm loving the mystery.

The SWORD situation is still very sus, with our trio acting like player characters and now Darcy is a magical hacker? I'm going to be disappointed if they aren't also under the influence of something.

This show makes me realize I don't know as much about sitcoms as I thought. I got that the primary reference was Malcolm in the Middle, but what other references were there?

Those inside the hex are experiencing unknown biological effects. And the hex is expanding. My zod, they might actually be doing "No, more mutants."

Loving this show!

[quote]I got that the primary reference was Malcolm in the Middle, but what other references were there?

In this episode or the series overall? Because Malcolm in the Middle was the only sitcom reference, and the rest comic references.

Where is Dottie? She’s noticeably missing lately, and I thought she was supposed to be the queen of the town lol.

R240 I'm not sure if it was intentional or not but considering it was the 90s episode, parts of it, especially the Vision moments, reminded me of Goosebumps or Are You Afraid of the Dark.

There are spoilers or theories about who Agnes, Ralph, Dottie and even Pietro actually are and they seem to indicate a bunch of new villains. It seems too ambitious to introduce that many major characters.

I would be glad if they were to keep using the actor playing Billy to keep playing that character in any Young Avengers productions and let the character age as the actor ages. He’s so cute in his little Wiccan costume.

Also a bit of a Hocus Pocus feel to the episode.

Weird meta-on-meta moment when Wanda and Pietro made a deliberate thing of saying "Kick-Ass". Was that on purpose.

Yes.

^Bebeh Evan Peters!

Wild guess.

Monica's astrophysicist buddy she called is a "he"-

Harley, the kid from Iron Man 3 and he also was at Tony Stark's funeral.

The Kat Dennings adorable pixie-nerd character is beyond irritating. Is that a straight geek's vision of what an approachable girl looks/acts like?

R250 I don't really count her as one of those types, she's to aggressive to be a pixie-nerd. She's more the brash one who doesn't have much of a filter, probably a little on the spectrum.

Darcy is partly comic relief.

[quote]Monica's astrophysicist buddy she called is a "he"- Harley, the kid from Iron Man 3 and he also was at Tony Stark's funeral.

It'd be great if it was Harley. I felt they had bigger plans for him considering he was in the Marvel 10th anniversary photoshoot. It would be strange just to have a one-off character be invited for that. But there are people theorizing /hoping that it WandaVision will usher in the Fantastic Four and that she's referring to Reed Richards.

[quote]But there are people theorizing /hoping that it WandaVision will usher in the Fantastic Four and that she's referring to Reed Richards.

Which makes more sense than Harley. We know he's someone that Monica has dealt with in re: with SWORD. We also know there are two versions of SWORD. The one on the Earth and the one in space. It would make more sense for it to be Reed Richards, not just because they have a Fantastic Four movie planned but he would obviously have some involvement with space flights based on the Fantastic Four's origin and the idea that he'd be at a level to work with SWORD and Monica as an expert.

[quote]I would be glad if they were to keep using the actor playing Billy to keep playing that character in any Young Avengers productions and let the character age as the actor ages.

The only actor in Young Avengers that should be played by a child that age is Loki. I do wish the kid lots of luck on his career. The Young Avengers are supposed to be out there fighting and it makes more sense to have actual teens (or rather for TV/film people in their 20s) than tweens as the young Avengers so it's not entirely that out odd that they'd be on their own without supervision fighting crime.

I think the Fantastic Four would get a bigger setup than a Reed Richards cameo in a TV show. But I do think it will be a known character from the comics. Or a Skrull, Or both. They did put in a subtle Skrull reference in one of the previous episodes.

Thanks for letting me know I didn't miss any TV references this time. I had missed some things in the last two episodes.

Random thought: Ellis Avenue - a reference to comics writer Warren Ellis? I don't think he has any particular connection to The Avengers but he did write Nextwave which featured Monica.

[quote]I think the Fantastic Four would get a bigger setup than a Reed Richards cameo in a TV show.

Possibly. This is new ground for them. Who ever thought they'd get any of the Marvel actors to appear in a TV show? It's clear they don't treat their shows that different from their films.

[quote]Random thought: Ellis Avenue - a reference to comics writer Warren Ellis? I don't think he has any particular connection to The Avengers but he did write Nextwave which featured Monica.

It's a reference to President Ellis who was President in that Universe and a character in the films and on Agents of SHIELD.

The Malcolm in the Middle theme made me look up Frankie Muniz. So sad.

I’ve never watched anything from the Marvel universe, but I’m liking this now that a know a bit of the Marvel history. It would be a series I’d rather binge watch all at once, though, rather than weekly.

love this show

Evan Peters is so cute and fuckable.

SPOILER OBSERVATION/QUESTION

Geez, how many times am I going to have to see Vision die?

127 and a half times, R261.

President Ellis is named after Warren Ellis. It's all connected! The conspiracy goes all the way to the top!

Great news r258 In one month, you'll be able to binge watch the entire season all at once!

[quote]Geez, how many times am I going to have to see Vision die?

I'm pretty sure once more. : (

Lazy, banal, hope-filled, void-of-any-basis predictions:

Aaron Taylor-Johnson appears to Wanda in a brief reprisal as Pietro Maximoff. It's poignant, tears-producing cameo. He's actually dead, yet, somehow, appears to assure his sister he's now in "a better place".

Heyward is Mephisto

Harley from Iron Man 3 is Monica's aerospace engineer friend.

Westview IS reality.

What if Monica's engineer friend is Fitz-Simmons? That could be fun. At this point I feel like anything can happen.

I'd only be surprised if we don't get at least one more surprise.

Kevin Feige said the final 3 episodes will be 1 hour each.

We can see that Wanda’s power has a limit. She doesn’t have enough power to direct the people on the outskirts, and when she increased the size of the hex, she had to put everyone on pause to have enough power to move it.

Predictions/Questions

I believe Pietro is an agent for a villain -- maybe one left off-screen and unnamed until Doctor Strange 2. Is it Nightmare? Mephisto?

I think Agnes is definitely Agatha Harkness and I think she may be under the sway of a villain but also trying to help. I think she is specifically being used to steal the children but will end up protecting them.... I wonder when she talks about Ralph she is talking about a villain who is using her?

Will we hear the words "Chaos Magic," and "Scarlett Witch" before the end of the series?

I have no idea who Monica's aerospace engineer friend is, but if it turns out to be Reed Richards the internet will melt.

Doctor Strange is definitely showing up by the last episode.

I hear rumors of a mysterious unannounced 10th Episode. Might be nothing.

Next week I wouldn't be surprised if Darcy isn't manning the Funnel Cake truck or somehow work at the circus.

She is going to talk with Vision.

I just hope Darcy gets to taze somebody. It's been a while.

The ending has been leaked by the same leaked that's leaked everything correctly, don't read if you don't want spoilers. Agatha is the villain she turned into a psychologist and tricked wanda into making this little world where she'd be happy. It's unclear if she's working for someone but apparently there's emphasis of nightmare who's is rumored to be the big bad of doc strange 2. Pietro is the quicksilver from the x men Universe but is forced into the role of the dead brother, it all ends in a cliffhanger since it continues with doctor strange 2.

r273 Plausible but the 4chan poster of this leak has no history of reliability and added his own embellishments to the Indonesian facebook page leak he referenced.

R274 Yeah it's maybe maybe not, we'll just have to wait and see but it sounds plausible. Mephisto is not in the series because of china's ban of the occult and magic stuff so having the devil in the mcu would nuke the franchise in China and get itself banned. Marvelnis not having that lol

I don't really like the sound of that ending. It sounds pretty anticlimactic. And while I knew it was going to tease the next Dr Strange this sounds like its going to be a straight up tie n to a movie that not out for over a year.

I'm working with an actress who is on another Marvel series, and all the tv series somehow introduce characters that will tie in with the movies. They all have to be aired in a very linear way to introduce them.

r276

agreed that is too long a wait but we did have to wait a year between infinity movies

Is Agatha Harkness going to appear? It would be a shame if she didn't--she was so integral to this storyline back in the 90s when it was in the comics.

Who could they get today who would look as old as she does? Shirley Maclaine?

R289, Agatha is already on the show -- they just de-aged her.

Sorry, R279

Even Peters is hot as fuckin' SHIT, yo.

Peters got too old. With his forehead crease and worn face he looks silly acting like his younger self. He needs to move on into mature roles.

He's not trying to be his younger self, the character has always been an immature douchebag (the ATJ version didn't have enough screentime to define that) and that's what he's portraying.

[quote] Agatha is already on the show -- they just de-aged her.

Well, that's not been established yet. That's just a fan theory.

[quote]Well, that's not been established yet. That's just a fan theory.

She isn't just a character named [bold]Ag[/bold](atha) (Hark)[bold]nes[/bold] who lives next door.

Who just happens to be part of Wanda's story in the comics involving the twins like "Agnes" is on the show.

Who was involved with the Salem Witch trials and somehow managed to dress like a witch on Halloween.

Who somehow wears a similar broach in a few different eras like the original character.

Who somehow keeps pushing Wanda and Vision to do certain things.

Who has a bunny rabbit named after the comic book character's actual son?

Who was living in a replica of the Bewitched house.

It's barely meant to be a mystery unlike Dottie's real identity, who Monica is meeting or who "Ralph" really is.

Is everyone under her dome a "Thanos Snap" survivor? Or someone who came back and lost someone while they were away? A lot can happen in five years as we clearly saw with Monica.

How much psychic energy would all that grief be that she could channel? Perhaps channeled via an extradimensional villain feeding off of such things?

Could Agnes be Wanda's grief counselor, too, in addition to being a witch?

crazy ideas? Or just crazy enough to be greenlit as a Marvel series?

Pietro is trying to find out for the other side, r287.

The Pietro Funko Pop has his name in quotes, indicating that it’s not really Pietro Maximoff.

Yes it's pretty obvious he's not Wanda's pietro, which begs to differ why did marvel not just get atj to do this part so it could feel way more personal for Wanda than having someone she's never seen before as her brother?

I hope they're saving the reunion with ATJ for the next Dr. Strange movie, R290.

R291 I could see it playing out like it did with Thanos and gamora, since they shared a connection with the mind stone we see him giving her a farewell.

Evan Peters is still hot but he can't so easily play the 20something layabout bro anymore. He's 34 and only easily looking around 30 at youngest (he can certainly pull off younger but not easily, and not at close up viewing angles).

[quote] he can't so easily play the 20something layabout bro anymore.

Exactly, he can’t effectively play the typical Evan Peters character (e.g. this version of Pietro Maximoff) anymore. He has to move on to older roles if he is to have longevity.

New Preview.

It looks like the spoilers on reddit were right again this week, with Darcy telling Vision the backstory in the funnel cake truck, Agatha kidnapping the twins and Monica entering the hex and confronting Wanda.

There was an end credit scene if anyone had already turned off. Already knowing who the main villain is sort of ruined this episode. But her intro song was great.

The 4 chan leaks were real, Agnes was shown controlling quicksilver.

Love WandaVision. I'm in bed with it to the end.

Ep 7, nevertheless, is the first disappointing episode for me. I can't put my finger, just yet, on why.

I love the sheer nonsense of it all Who said the soap opera is a dead genre?

Willingly, eagerly, I suspend disbelief. For example, why doesn't Vision, if he's so intent on getting to the bottom of things, put the mind meld on everybody in Westview? Whatever. I enjoy this ride so I set that aside because damned if I'm not entertained as all get-out.

Still, and call me oversensitive, but Wanda's interaction with the twins, her children, by showing no restraint in describing to them what amounts to a mental breakdown, made me slightly uncomfortable.

I'm unfamiliar with whatever sitcom Ep 7 parodies, so that might be a factor in my reaction.

r299 The sitcom was Modern Family. Though the only thing it had in common was the interview bits.

The way I see Wanda's relationship with the Twins is that she isn't prepared for dealing with parenthood. She went from pregnant to raising two 10 years old's within a couple of days, and in universe she's not even in her mid twenties yet, that added with the fact she's having a breakdown won't put her in the best position to parent as well as she should.

The episode itself was based on those mockumentaries of the last 15 years, the episode itself is obviously based on Modern Family and the opening titles were based on the Office.

Agatha has a son in the comics and I think whoever the big bad is has changed her son into that bunny and will only change him back once Agatha has followed the plan. I believe Wanda created the town and the situation but Agatha has been pushing things a certain way, the talking head allows her to understand Wanda's motive. The final two episodes have a lot of blanks to fill in, and it does seem flashbacks are coming, but I'll be surprised if both episodes are only half an hour each.

Was that the real Quicksilver though? I feel like its implied that he's not actually Pietro multiple times

r302 We don't know yet. I can sort of see Marvel wanting a speedster round for this movie stage. And since Tommy is 10 (and might not make it anyway). They could just say he's Quicksilver now whether Wanda retroactively created him, or he's from a different universe.

PHOTON has entered the chat. (!!!)

Agatha getting her own intro/theme was super fun. (If you're gonna steal, steal from the best.)

[quote]Agatha has a son in the comics and I think whoever the big bad is has changed her son into that bunny and will only change him back once Agatha has followed the plan.

I'm not sure about that specifically, but I do think "It was Agatha all along" is too simplistic. I think I'll be disappointed if there isn't another layer. She's not a villain in the comics, for whatever that's worth. Maybe the rest of the series plays out as a conflict between Wanda and Agnes but at the end we get the reveal of a bigger bad.

[quote]Ep 7, nevertheless, is the first disappointing episode for me. I can't put my finger, just yet, on why.

Considering there are only two episodes left, I'm not sure this one was well paced. Viz and Darcy didn't really do anything, and there was too much buildup to Monica going through the barrier.

I noticed that in the credits Hahn is credited as Agatha Harkness but Peters is still credited as Pietro Maximoff. Probably doesn't mean anything though. Unless it does.

R304 I agree about the pacing and the tone of the Vision and Darcy scenes was strange, like they couldn't find the right balance between comedy and drama.

[quote] Quarantine style staycation

So MCU has Covid too?

Nice homage in the opening credits this week to the Russo Brothers' sitcom Happy Endings

[quote]So MCU has Covid too?

Some called it The China Virus, but it's been Agnes all along.

[quote]The sitcom was Modern Family. Though the only thing it had in common was the interview bits.

The business with Vision and Darcy in the truck reminded me of "Arrested Development".

Modern Family, The Office, Arrested Development with a Happy Endings intro.

Then later on with Agatha, The Adams Family & The Munsters.

Wanda did a good impersonation of Claire Dunphy.

I didn't "get" the opening credits with all the "WANDA!" stuff.

Oh! Y'all see that commercial with Nexus? In the comic, Wanda was the Nexus of All Magic for a bit to warp reality in massive level and "No more mutants" stuffs. I think this lend more credibility to a reverse "No More Mutant" in Strange movie.

Rocking ending

Agatha Harkness is the big bad?

Agnes is either the big bad... or she's falsely 'playing the role' for a greater good or goodish.

People were right that Agnes didn’t seem under the spell when she was was talking to Vision with Herb, and she shouldn’t have been able to speak before she was awakened in her car at the edge of the hex. We know now that Agnes allowed Herb to break character when she was talking to him about Geraldine. It was in that other state that he was able to say “We’re all...” When Agnes left he went back to being Herb.

On the one hand, it may be that Wanda was telling the truth to Vision that she wasn’t controlling everyone, but on the other hand, she seemed to be acknowledging control when “Pietro” was talking to her about what was happening in Westview.

[quote] Agatha Harkness is the big bad?

I think there may be one more layer of control. Also, making viewers think it was all Wanda and then saying it’s all Agatha may not be complex enough.

It's been Agatha all along!

If it turns out to just be Agatha Harkness (who by the way was never a villain in the comics) I feel that would be too simplistic. Besides this ties into Doctor Strange 2 so there must be some hints of a large big bad pulling strings.

Episode 8 is likely to provide a fair amount of flashback -- Agatha's background as a witch and maybe the deal she made to not burn at the stake; how Agatha met Wanda before Westview (I still think she met Wanda as a grief counselor or therapist). Also, how Wanda recovered Vision and restored him. We need to see all that. Some of that has been shown in trailers.

The show writ large is an examination of grief and learning to live with change and loss. I hope it doesn't get too pat.

This show has been great for Elizabeth Olsen. It really shows the full range of what she can do--be funny, charming, scary, tragic....

Oh the latest I am hearing is that Matt Smith is playing Nightmare. Why not? He seems to get name dropped into a lot of things.

[quote]I didn't "get" the opening credits with all the "WANDA!" stuff.

The music is a reference to The Office, the visual is to Happy Endings, which the Russo Bros produced.

[quote]It's been Agatha all along!

I cannot get the song out of my head. As earworms go, it's delightful.

It's a damned shame no one will consider Kathryn Hahn for an Emmy.

For the first month or so when I saw this I was reading it as WakandaVision and assumed it was a Black Panther spin off. But the press had mainly pictures of white people so it was confusing. But I still don’t understand why they wouldn’t do a WankandaVision show, it sounds like most of their shows are very white with people like Jen, Reese and Billy on them.

I wonder who is "Agnes' husband"? There is mention of one, but I don't think we saw him. I think the whole manipulation scheme is a team effort and Agnes is only one part of it. Plus there is the mid credit scene in the latest episode and Evans seems to be more than just a hapless local recast. But would he inquire about what is going on with Wanda if he was on Agnes' team?

[quote]But I still don’t understand why they wouldn’t do a WankandaVision show

I blame that selfish Chadwick Boseman.

I rewatched and caught some more interesting things in the credits:

The TV theme songs were written by Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez of Frozen fame.

Agatha's theme is officially named "It Was _ All Along" which I thought was cute.

There is a young actor credited as "Billy Reference." I think he was the face of the missing child on the milk carton. I don't see why he would be billed fairly prominently for that, so perhaps we'll be seeing more of him.

I tried looking for Easter eggs in Agatha's basement but nothing clicked with me. Some folks on reddit are speculating her grimoire is The Darkhold, which is a big deal in the comics and was also seen on Agents of SHIELD. But it looked different on AoS.

Please try to keep up dear r324 This isn't the final show that they are producing.

In fact they're working on an upcoming Wakanda show at this very moment. Plus there's a Shang Chi movie in July. Plenty of upcoming diversity.

Marvel are going all in on diversity now, they have Ms. Marvel coming up, Monica will play a big role in Captain Marvel 2 and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets her own solo, the Wakanda show is being produced, Doctor Strange 2 is adding Miss America to it's cast with no doubt a Disney+ spin-off in mind, Billy and Tommy are gay and bi so I suspect that will come into play if they give Wanda another solo series or movie.

Forgot to add Ironheart and Rhodey's own show Armor Wars.

[quote]It's a damned shame no one will consider Kathryn Hahn for an Emmy.

Her sister Jessica had the same problem.

[quote]Marvel are going all in on diversity now

The TV shows and movies are all based off of the comics. They're not "going all in on diversity." Marvel has been pretty diverse for years.

Kamala/Ms. Marvel has been around for 8 years.

Miss America has been around for 11 years.

Wiccan and Speed have been around for 16 years as they are now.

Monica Rambeau has been around for 39 years.

Shang-Chi has been around for 48 years.

They're just telling more of their stories and it just so happens most of the ones left feature many of these people.

[quote]I tried looking for Easter eggs in Agatha's basement but nothing clicked with me.

At the link you can see one of the official WandaVision posters.

Behind Vision and Agatha you can see wallpaper. If you zoom in on the wallpaper there's a demonic face looking back at you between them and Wanda's head.

That's the same face that's inside the basement hanging on the wall next to Agatha.

"The devil's in the details."

Not watching, don't know much about Marvel and probably would miss a lot

But looks interesting and well done. Hahn is fabulous.

[quote]If you zoom in on the wallpaper there's a demonic face looking back at you

Perfect, I'm been meaning to redecorate the guest suite.

r300, I thought it was more, "The Office" (especially with the opening credits), although I have never seen, "Modern Family".

I really like this series, although I can't see how they would sustain this for a second season.

[quote]I thought it was more, "The Office" (especially with the opening credits), although I have never seen, "Modern Family".

It’s Modern Family. Wanda was deliberately channeling Claire Dunphy.

I'm going to challenge you on that, r336 , just on the opening credits- The Office title credits (Scranton & Dunder Mifflin shown repeatedly like "Wanda"). Even the music is similar.

"WandaVision" intro:

R337, you shouldn't have challenged that person. As said before, the title credits are knocking off, ABC's "Happy Endings" where they spell out "HAPPY" repeatedly only this time it's "WANDA."

The episode 7 intro is based on Happy Endings, not The Office, but either way that wouldn’t change the fact the creators have already stated the Wanda parts of episode 7 are based on Modern Family.

The sitcom Happy Endings has close ties to the Marvel Universe as the Russo Bros who have directed 4 Marvel movies were also producers on Happy Endings

Vanity Fair is speculating that Al Pacino will be the huge cameo everybody expects.

..with Al Pacino as Mephisto.

Why the fuck not? Lol

Part of me really needs the release of a Battle Royale between Vision/SWORD/Agatha/Scarlet Witch/Fake Pietro and whatever codename Monica is going to call herself (I assume it will Photon after her mom but it might be Spectrum) And then top it off with Dr Strange showing up.

And I mean a real battle not some coitus interruptus version that TV shows so often do with really abbreviated stuff. They need to stick the landing with explosions and SFX while ALSO landing the emotional aspect.

The Head Writer is a woman so the jury is still out if she can pull off a satisfying catharsis.

One of the things I don’t like about Marvel movies is how much of the run time is filled with long, stretched-out big battle sequences. I assume that’s what lowbrow teenage boys and young men want to see when they go to the cinema. WandaVision is a welcome respite from that.

R345 Action is part of the comic DNA. No one said it was filler if it serves the plot, and by all accounts this is leading up to some kind of showdown.

Would you rather they all sit in a circle and talk it all out?

Why is OP's post whited out? What's so objectionable about Wandavision?

R347 It's not the Golden Girls, can't have shows that are less than 20 years old taking up room on this site!

I think the small amounts of action in WandaVision have been appropriate, even the hex expanding was well done with it almost like a chase scene. Wanda's getting a new super suit, so I think it's obvious she's getting a big action sequence eventually.

[quote]Would you rather they all sit in a circle and talk it all out?

Marvel characters having personal issues is what differentiated them from DC in the 60s and 70s, so Marvel characters talking about their problems is part of their comic DNA.

R350 Sure but I am hoping for both.

I think it will actually be pretty tragic when Wanda has to face, again, possibly sacrificing Vision to resolve the issue.

leaks say peter will have a slow mo scene where he saves the citizens from an attack. And apparently the villain is nightmare who is possessing agatha.

[Quote] I tried looking for Easter eggs in Agatha's basement but nothing clicked with me.

Then you weren't paying close enough attention.

The Nexus commercial ties into the multiverse story lines of Spiderman 3 and Doctor Strange 2.

The book is agathas grimore (book of spells) since every wich or Magician has one in fiction. 🤓

The bunny could be a witch's familiar and she turned him into Fake Pietro.

[quote] The Head Writer is a woman so the jury is still out if she can pull off a satisfying catharsis.

Yes, women are such feeble creatures that they are often inadequate writers. What a wise comment.

[quote]The bunny could be a witch's familiar and she turned him into Fake Pietro

Its name is Mr. Scratchy which makes me think more of a devil/demon. Mr. Scratch = the devil

[quote]ALRIGHT THO TELL ME THIS DOESN’T LOOK LIKE MAGNETO’S HELMET! 😱

It doesn't.

[quote] The book is agathas grimore (book of spells) since every wich or Magician has one in fiction.

It's almost certainly the Darkhold, the most infamous and evil grimoire in the Marvel Comics Universe--it's very much tied to Wanda's origin story.

[quote] Its name is Mr. Scratchy which makes me think more of a devil/demon. Mr. Scratch = the devil

In the comics, Agatha Harkness has a very evil son named Nicholas Scratch.

If that's the Darkhold, the villain behind Agatha could also be Chthon, an elder demon associated with the book who has possessed Wanda before in the comics.

The Chinese market does not go for demons.

They'll change it to a hopping vampire for the China release.

Do American TV shows worry about China releases the way the movie studios do?

R365 Not typically, Wanda's kids are gay and bi in the comics and will probably be the same in the MCU once aged up, but I expect their sexuality will only be highlighted when appearing in a Disney+ show and ignored when they appear in the movies.

r366 I wouldn't expect his relationship with Hulkling to be as front and center as it is in the comics even on Disney+. I'm predicting slow burn relationship buildup ultimately leading to the occasional kiss every 4 episodes. Tommy may get to eye up a guy but will probably end up with Hawkeye (girl version).

R367, When you add canonical gay characters to a show you have two options: you embrace it, or you avoid it.

The now cancelled Runaways on ABC Family (which was an MCU show) decided to embrace it by not hiding the fact that two different women were in love with Karolina Dean.

Granted, Wiccan and Hulking are men these and there's a slightly different standard but I have a feeling they know they just have to go for it. You won't get away with having that prominent of a gay character and sweeping it under the rug or briefly mentioning it.

lol disney will either make the gay relationship very minimal or non existent, they'll edit it out of china cut of course if theirs anything gay going on.

Does anyone else think that during the next episode, “Pietro,”instead of being a villain, will say to Monica something like, “Agatha has my nephews, and I want them back, help me”?

I think, since we saw Agnes controlling him, he's the X-Men movie's "Quicksilver" who was yanked into Wanda's universe by Agnes.

He's snooping around trying to figure out just what happened.

Apperantly marvel went with evan peters quicksilver cause he's 3asy and cheap to worth with, atj prolly wanted a huge check and marvel said lol no.

Episode 8 - 9 "Spoilers!"

Look away if you do not want to be potentially spoiled! Grains of salt, of course.

Cataract is the thing Heywood is planning to "launch" into Westview, its what is left of the original Vision minus all the consciousness, empathy and soul. He is all white (a nod to a version of Vision featured in the West Coast Avengers comic from the late 1980s early 90s) Basically an android weapon. Expect Vision vs. Vision action. The internet will melt. Paul Bettany's troll of "someone he always wanted to work with" is, of course, himself!

Wanda did want to bury Vision but when she saw his body in parts she had a breakdown and left SWORD headquarters

Enter...Agnes who promises an end to her grief and gets her to create Westview, and create a new Vision w/ mindstone by pulling both from an alternate universe.

Agatha/Agnes is shown in flashback being a witch due to burn at the stake. Perhaps some deal she made saved her. She says his name is Ralph (Mephisto is not named at all on the show). Implied Agnes is not in control of her actions.

Kids are not in some sorcerous/demonic body horror trap, just hiding from Agnes.

Pietro and Monica team up.

Pietro is a mind controlled Peter from another universe (which is obviously the X-Men Fox universe) that Agnes pulled in when she was unable to pull in Aaron Taylor Johnson's version from MCU. Vision snaps Pietro out his state.

Doctor Strange appears at the climax of the battles in Ep 8 and saves Wanda and the kids and send Pietro back to his own universe.

I'll be the first to say this stuff is dangerously close to fanboy masturbation, so if even 1/3 of it happens it will be an online meltdown.

[quote]send Pietro back to his own universe

Bummer.

I wanted him to stick around and continue the character.

Rumor has it Pietro and Jimmy will join SWORD at the end of the series.

ATJ only signed up to Avengers: Age of Ultron because it was a one picture deal and the character was going to die. He was just coming off of the KickAss movies and was reluctant to join another superhero film because he didn’t want to be typecast.

Joss Whedon, who is notoriously picky with casting, wrote Quicksilver with Aaron in mind and he wrote Scarlet Witch with Saorise Ronan in mind, but Saorise’s people wanted too much money and Marvel execs were already not on the same page as Whedon regarding that casting anyways.

[quote] ATJ only signed up to Avengers: Age of Ultron because it was a one picture deal and the character was going to die. He was just coming off of the KickAss movies and was reluctant to join another superhero film because he didn’t want to be typecast.

That's not strictly true. He signed up for multiple pictures. Though that's common for all actors and its Marvels discretion to use. For example Ty Simpkins the kid in Iron Man 3 signed up for 5 films, and they've used him twice in a decade and don't seem to have further plans for the character after Starks funeral... Despite my wish that he mentors Peter Parker in some way.

This might be fun. There's at least one more character/casting surprise to come. Make an UNSPOILED prediction about who we'll see in the next two episodes. It can be a shrewd guess (Dr. Strange?) or off the wall. (CGI Vivian Vance!)

Keep it spoiler-free please.

My guess, just because it would be cool: Tilda Swinton.

Based off the press the cast has been doing, I think it’s obvious Doctor Strange will pop up considering this show is a lead into Multiverse of Madness. I also think there will be another guest actor but I don’t want to get too spoilery as to who I think it is

I’m more interested in Wanda’s moral alignment. Will she stay an Avenger, or go a little on the dark side? Personally I’m fine with either, although if they do keep her a hero it will take a lot of redemption to shrug of Wanda being okay with 30,000 people being held hostage

MCU Wanda definitely has a dark past so there’s a lot to work from: Volunteering for experiments, trying to kill the Avengers, letting Tony take the staff, Lagos accident

I want Mephisto.

Agree, R380! Would love for Mephisto to show up. I loved how he was always starting shit and lounging around like an insolent red bitch in the comics. #Goals

White Vision is all but confirmed. Cameo in Episode 8, Viz v. Viz battle in 9

Episode 8 will be a lot of backstory/ explanation of Agatha's past, Wanda's past as a child, her instability after Vision's death in Infinity War, the raising of the Hex barrier, creation of Vision, etc.

Episode 8 rumored to be 47 minutes long.

A co-worker who worked on this said they shot so much stuff, he doesn't know exactly how it's all going to end up. But no S2 in this format for sure, if any at all.

SPOILER....

I didn't ask for any (i don't like being spoiled), but he blurted out, "Real Magic, Nexus Magic, and who Wanda really is".

Fortunately, I'm a DC girl, so I don't know what this means.

SPOILERS...

I've also heard White Vision is a shoo-in to appear, and that he is the sentient weapon Heyward has been trying to create from the Vision's dead body in our universe. There will supposedly be a red Vision vs. White Vision battle.

I've also heard the next episode makes it clear tthat the much-mentioned Ralph is the sinister and ageless supernatural being who saved Agatha at the original Salem Witch trials, but whether he's Mephisto or any other established Marvel supervillain is not revealed.

So Agatha wants to be good and just sees Wanda as a possible threat to the world because of her magic? I guess it makes her more complicated than most MCU villains.

I didn't quite understand Agatha's explanation for Pietro, so he was also created by Wanda and no ripped through the multiverse?

White Vision is going to fuck everything up the next ep, Wanda will get her full costume and embrace the Scarlet Witch to defeat white Vision, Hayward will have to answer for weaponizing Vision's body and planting the idea of bringing Vision back to life in Wanda's mind.

SCARLET WITCH has entered the chat.

Yeah, Agatha is one of the few MCU antagonists who isn't forgettable. Also she called Wanda "toots" so she's gotta be a Datalounger. So she drains other people's magic like the YoMagic commercial and also like Mordo. Hmm.

Fantastic effects and a fantastic showcase for Olsen. But how the heck is there only one episode left? I hope the finale feels satisfying. Gonna feel like a long wait for Multiverse of Madness.

I'm nervous about them making Wanda ultrapowerful. That makes her too overpowering to be an Avenger and could lead to another narrative about women going crazy if they have power. Trying to be optimistic.

Can't tell if Hayward is evil or just astoundingly stupid.

I feel like they've got way too much to resolve in the last episode. Hope it's actually an hour long for the finale. And I doubt Mephisto is reveal is coming this late in the show.

Yeah. Another important mid-credits sequence this week.

It just occurred to me that Wanda creating this Vision version makes for a very convoluted family tree. He's essentially Billy and Tommy's father/brother.

[quote]I'm nervous about them making Wanda ultrapowerful. That makes her too overpowering to be an Avenger and could lead to another narrative about women going crazy if they have power. Trying to be optimistic.

This is very difficult to avoid because:

1. Every iteration of Wanda the past few years has been ultra powerful. She was always going to get here in the MCU. Then again so are Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange.

2. She is crazy. I hate it but at least here we have Monica who has her head on mostly straight while grieving. You have a character who started out as a villain in both iterations of her existence. It's hard not to have her have a few screws loose after everything she has been through.

No matter what happens she's still the woman who took over an entire town with her powers and is actively screwing with their minds.

The difference between Wanda and Carol is that Wanda is like a glass canon, she is dangerous and powerful but fragile whereas Carol can tear spaceships apart by flying into them. Wanda still has weaknesses that can hold her back and put her in danger but Carol has the superman problem.

[quote]Wanda still has weaknesses that can hold her back and put her in danger but Carol has the superman problem.

Carol isn't immune to magic, most people aren't in the Marvel Universe, and she also wouldn't be immune to reality warping. Even Superman isn't immune to it. That's what makes Wanda special.

And with this series it's settled: she could have single handedly taken out Thanos when Captain Marvel could not. Even he knew it.

Wanda might be a glass cannon but she's still a hell of a cannon.

R393 I'm not trying to downplay Wanda's abilities but in terms of storytelling her weaknesses allow her to have stronger characterization than Carol. Carol hasn't been helped that during her solo movie she had no memories and personality and then for her next appearance it was filmed prior to Captain Marvel, meaning they weren't comfortable giving her strong character moments incase it went against her own movie. Wanda benefits from being a bit broken and a glass canon, her next appearance will be about her learning to control her magic, Agatha will help her discover it in a sense but she won't control completely by the end of the show. Carol already has her abilities learned, she's a veteran compared to most of the Avengers, this also means she's a lot harder to give strong material.

They don't have to recapitulate all the Wanda messes from the comics. They don't have to put her into some kind of fugue state in which she takes thousands of hostages and starts rewriting reality. They could have made other choices.

But to keep it positive, it's great that Wanda is getting the spotlight, and especially that it's character driven and not too bogged down by plot like the Captain Marvel movie was.

[quote]And with this series it's settled: she could have single handedly taken out Thanos

And 15 minutes earlier (from her POV) she was fighting Thanos while destroying an Infinity Stone!

I want a Scarlet Witch series or movie after WandaVision and DS2. Dealing with being seen as an outside, dangerous and a freak by the public, potentially there are mutants in the MCU by that point, Wanda could start the creation of the Brotherhood of mutants and perhaps find her long lost half-sister Polaris.

So, is it ok to ask about the Scarlet Witch revelation?

I’m unsure about Brie Larson’s Carol. I can’t tell if she’s a charisma void in that part or there is something with the writing. I am excited to see Monica’s future in that universe

As for Hayward, I think he’s a dick but he’s also paranoid and traumatized from The Snap. Clearly reviving Vision is a violation of laws (which is why he kept a secret from Monica, Woo, and Darcy) so he purposely antagonized Wanda by letting her see what he was doing up close and personal. He’s going to blame Wanda for reviving and stealing Vision similar to how Ross blamed the Hulk/Abomimation experiments on Bruce Banner

I was hugely impressed this episode by both Elizabeth Olsen and Kathryn Hahn. The latter is so original--she gets laughs from the most unexpecrted ways of showing her reactions. She is such an inventive actress.

Hayward is yet another S. H. I. E. L. D./ S. W. O. R. D. higher-up gone rogue--the recreation of the Vision as White Vision cannot be legal.

I am not clear yet what Agatha's motivations are, what role the metal-bound book (the Darkhold?) from last episode plays in all this, or who her mother and the other witches were. Or what Tommy and Billy really are (Illusions? Real children created out of Wanda's own DNA from parthogenesis? Soul shards of Mephisto?).

Missed having a theme song this episode, though there would be no point in having had one.

I guess Agatha's line about Wanda being capable of "spontaneous creation" explains Billy and Tommy.

It was interesting that:

*Wanda's mother, when aged and then killed, looked the way Agatha Harkness looks in the comics

*the vision (not the Vision!) that Wanda saw in the Sokovian flashback in the yellow glow looked like her wearing her usual headdress from the comics

*the missile with the blinking red light was like the toaster with the mysterious red light from the commercial in the fist episode.

*Hayward's reveal of Vision's disassembled body looked much like the way John Byrne showed it (see image at link) in the classic "VisionQuest" storyline in the "West Coast Avengers" comics in the early 90s (which also involved the creation of the White Vision we saw midway in the final credits sequence)

*Wanda's favorite episode of her favorite TV sitcom is the classic "It May Look Like a Walnut" episode of DICK VAN DYKE (usually considered one of the two or three funniest episodes from that series), which involves Rob waking up to an altered reality and discovering at the end it was all a dream.

Agatha clearly practices black magic— loved how when she was magically bound to the pyre and pleading her case she couldn’t help but shoot satisfied devious looks her Mother’s way. I think she is either jealous of Wanda’s abilities and wants to steal them or she thinks she’s too dangerous to live. Or maybe both.

I think they are setting up Mephisto to be the Phase 4 big bad just like they were setting up Thanos. We might not see him for a while but he will be referenced here and there

[quote] So, is it ok to ask about the Scarlet Witch revelation?

Agatha spoke of her as being some sort of legend among witches, and said that Wanda must be she. So she's a legendary figure long expected to one day arrive in witchdom, like harry Potter as The Chosen One.

Also, I think the set and costume design for the show are absolutely phenomenal. The houses each decades aren’t direct copies of the shows they are referencing, but close enough that you know. I liked the little things like having the 80’s having a “statement couch” a la Full House and the pink bathroom from Malcolm in The Middle

I loved Wanda’s 70’s styles!

[quote] I think she is either jealous of Wanda’s abilities and wants to steal them or she thinks she’s too dangerous to live. Or maybe both.

It sounded like Agatha was really jealous, like Salieri towards Mozart in "Amadeus': it took Agatha years to learn simple illusion spells, and Wanda can entirely change reality unconsciously.

Someone (either Agatha or Hayward, I can't remember which) said tonight Wanda has always had latent but weak powers of probability-altering magic like she does in the comics (which is probably why the Stark Industries bomb didn't go off--she turned it into a dud); but the encounter with the Mind Stone seems to have boosted her power enormously,. Agatha said she felt the complexities of one spell being cast after another in Westview and came to investigate.

I don't think Agatha needs a Big Bad behind her like Mephisto or Nightmare, as many (including me) posited she would. She's a great villain on her own--probably the best one the MCU has yet had.

Agatha also said Fake Pietro--"Fietro"--has been her "eyes and ears," so he's some sort of illusion she created to pump Wanda for information (since she said she did not reanimate the real Pietro's corpse by necromancy).

It seemed like Agatha coveted Wanda's abilities, then when she pronounced her "The Scarlet Witch", said it in such a way that Wanda was an abomination, rather than someone who was to be admired.

I'm glad they've held back on bringing in a Big Bad. It seems that we're heading toward the MCU referring to her as Scarlet Witch rather than Wanda with the comic accurate headdress from her vision (not Vision)

Plus, we'll likely get the Monica/Photon full reveal next week

Speaking of superpowers and witchcraft, how did Debra Jo Rupp's agent get her such a prominent credit every week on a show where's she's only had a few lines and cameos?

R407 Probably due to using her in promo material to emphasize the sitcom connection, this will have played a big part in her value to the show.

Elizabeth Olson is great as Wanda but as a sitcom actress she's not really working. Paul Bettany and Kathryn Hahn do, but Olson is way too broad and doesnn't have natural comic ease the way great sitcom actresses like MTM did.

R409 I think that works with what she's doing though, Wanda isn't meant to be at ease with the whole situation, she's trying to suppress the reality of it all but reality is fighting its way out.

The last episode really played to Olson's subtle dramatic strengths as Wanda slowly comes to grips with all of her past traumas.

Is it my imagination, or is top-billing on closing credits rotated between Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen?

I swear, one week I saw her name first, than the next week his name was first.

I thought Elizabeth was best when she emulating Claire Dunphy. I think the biggest issue is she has a hard time losing her natural nasally valley accent. But I will say I think her Eastern European accent is much better, especially when she was outside the reality threatening the SWORD Agents

Paul Bettany is absolutely incredible though. He plays Vision with such sweetness. The goodness of the character just shines through

[quote] Go for the eyes like mommy taught you.

I'm not sure what Wanda's game plan for the fight is here. But it looks terrible.

Spoilers!!! So the kid that plays Wiccan has been in London for a few months now, so I guess the twins won't age up by the end of the show but they will survive the evets of the show and turn up in Doctor Strange 2.

R415 I wouldn’t mind them staying younger a bit longer. I kind of figured as much since there haven’t been any leaks as to who are playing the teen versions. I know there have been rumors around Ross Lynch for Speed for a while now.

Also, in the comics Billy is the future Sorcerer Supreme after Strange, so it will be cool to see them interact. I think that’s going to be the reason why Strange didn’t swoop in from the start. He knew he had to let Billy be born first

[quote] Spoilers!!! So the kid that plays Wiccan has been in London for a few months now

r415 Where have you seen that? Also it looks like Strange stopped filming in January for 2nd lockdown so its weird if he's just hanging round.

Someone on reddit mentioned he was in London, so I did a little research and the kids insta page, it's so weird giving a kid that young social media, shows that he was in London a couple of months ago, around when DS2 would've been early in filming. I guess they probably shot the twins scenes early so they were free to go back to America for the holidays.

r418 Huh. Yeah looks like the other one was there as well. They may just allow the actors to age into the roles. 3-4 years would be about my earliest guess for any YA property so they'll be at least 13-14 by then. Also saves wasting time on any pointless soul reincarnation new families stuff since the Kaplans have had about 2 pages in 2 decades, and the Shepherds never even got that.

Agatha revealing why she came to town, explaining why Wanda’s control of the town is so extraordinary, and making Wanda reveal her past in order to finally figure out how Wanda did it, have been the best parts of the series so far. Agatha is such a deliciously Kathryn Hahn type part.

My favorite lines:

Agatha (hearing young Pietro shouting at home): “Oh, he’s really loud isn’t he?”

Agatha (after hearing Pietro again talking loudly): “I mean, we’re right here.”

How come Fox was allowed to have a Quicksilver and not a Wanda?

Pietro was in the X men. Wanda was not.

R421 Fox Studios owned the X-Men characters, but both Marvel Studios and Fox owned the rights to both Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. Why? Because in the comics, they were sometimes in the X-Men and sometimes an Avenger. So the studios had to coordinate. Both used Quicksilver and Marvel used Scarlet Witch exclusively

Watched the episode. Was fun. But I again, have to say, if Agatha is the big bad I will be so pissed off. Agatha adores Wanda, and it is abuse to make her evil.

Were Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch ever X-Men? I thought they were X-Men enemies back when they belonged to the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, and then became Avengers.

r425

The closest either of them got was that Quicksilver was in X-Factor for years

[quote] Agatha adores Wanda, and it is abuse to make her evil.

It actually isn’t.

[quote]Were Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch ever X-Men? I thought they were X-Men enemies back when they belonged to the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, and then became Avengers.

As R426 said, he was a member of X-Factor for years but he also did join the regular group of X-Men as an X-Man for a couple of issues back in the early 90s. He also lived at the X-Mansion for a few issues as well when the Avengers went missing in the 00s.

Outside of that, both he and Scarlet Witch were members of the Uncanny Avengers, a combo team of the X-Men and Avengers squads which, I guess, half counts?

During the Age of Apocalypse alternate universe storyline, Quicksilver lead the X-Men team and Scarlet Witch was apparently also a member who was killed at some point. They paired him off with Storm during their stories which kinda' worked for the both of them.

Originally their reasoning for being okay to associate with but not actually joining the X-Men's core group is because they didn't want to come into conflict with their father at some point as he was (on again off again) their main enemy for years. The versions of X-Factor, Pietro were a part of didn't have much to do with the main X-teams at the time and were either government sanction crime fighters or corporate sponsored. So they've kept to that ideal.

[quote] Agatha adores Wanda, and it is abuse to make her evil.

Agatha has her own agenda which doesn't necessarily make her evil. It just makes her a character with her own agenda.

She could have hurt Monica to get her out of the way but she didn't. As of now she hasn't hurt anyone. The boys sort of count but don't because to Agatha they're just constructs made by Wanda.

If anything she is helping her "snap out of it" and come back to reality at the moment.

Not only does Kathryn resembles Ana Gasteyer, but something about how she plays real-time Agatha reminds me of Sandra Bernhard.

I'll be a bit sad when this ends, knowing that there will be no S2 in this format- I have no interest in the Winter Soldier or Hawkeye series. Maybe Loki and Black Widow. Not sure about Ms. Marvel. I've also been expecting them to revive Daredevil/Jessica Jones/Luke Cage/Punisher since it's been the 2 year lapse needed for the Netflix contract.

R429 I’m super excited for Loki because he’s DB Cooper in the MCU. Of COURSE Loki would be the one behind that.

Is this happening in the post-Endgame timeline or another?

R431 Three weeks after everyone snapped back in EndGame

[quote] Agatha has her own agenda which doesn't necessarily make her evil. It just makes her a character with her own agenda.

Killing her mother and all those other witches makes her evil. I know of no recognizable moral code that allows you to kill your entire community, even in self-defense.

Also, torturing Billy and Tommy at the end of the last episode, and killing Sparky previously and gloating about it, also makes her evil.

^ Not MY Agatha.

r418 r419 Looks like someone got in trouble since those pictures are gone. Apparently Bettany wasn't seen on set for Strange 2 though. So either he's just better at hiding, or it doesn't bode well for Vision on Friday.

Evan looks delicious, never found him attractive but he got hot with age!

Vision is done. I thinkwith all the criticism Marvel gets for being unable to leave a character dead, they won't bring Vision back.

Are you kidding? The Vision is an android, it's easier to justify him coming back than it is the legions of human beings Marvel has brought back from the dead.

I'll cop to it. I want a Happy Ending for WandaVision.

I'm exhausted from the perpetual Wanda angst since Avengers Age of Ultron. Enough already.

[quote]Killing her mother and all those other witches makes her evil.

They were [bold]trying to kill her.[/bold]

[quote]I know of no recognizable moral code that allows you to kill your entire community, even in self-defense.

So she should have let them execute her for ... learning magic they didn't want her to know? That absolutely does not make sense.

I never said she was good, I said she has her own agenda but she's not evil. The Coven would still be alive had they not tried to murder her!

[quote]Also, torturing Billy and Tommy at the end of the last episode

Again, she doesn't see them as "real." To her, Wanda made them like she made everything else. She hasn't tried to hurt anyone that existed prior to Wanda's hex. Not Monica, not Pietro, not anyone else in the town that we've seen. Her concern is Wanda.

This is no different than comic book Agnes. She felt the same way about the boys. Of course Wanda killed her for it.

[quote]and killing Sparky previously and gloating about it, also makes her evil.

She killed Sparky for a reason: she wanted to see if he could be brought back. That was an experiment. An evil one but an experiment none-the-less.

Again: Agatha isn't evil, she just has her own agenda and that agenda is learning what makes Wanda tick and learning new magic.

I googled when ep 9 was going to be broadcasted (I haven't learned which night because I'm on a crazy work schedule), and all the links had a stupid spoilery headline, "Director of ep 9 is telling fans they're going to be disappointed..." Of course I didn't click on the links, but jeez c'mon.

i totally forgot about She-Hulk! I will be looking forward to that.

[quote]I googled when ep 9 was going to be broadcasted

Oh dear...

R441, he’s just saying, some people will be disappointed because their pet theories won’t come to pass. Not that it’s disappointing generally.

It’s interesting that Agatha referred to Wanda’s work as “illusions”, although Monica said that what is created or changed inside the hex, like the kids, is real. Also, when Jimmy and Monica were first outside the town looking down the road, it looked from their and the viewers’ point of view that the town was just the same, and certainly not black and white.

I wish Jennifer Barkley were revealed to be Agatha and that is her secret identity.

r443, r442 was pointing out my grammatical error, "broadcasted"

Disney spent a lot of money for the rights to Vision as well as the other Marvel characters. If they kill him off, he won't stay dead for very long

I guess he'll stay non-loving White Vision for a while then.

For the geeks: a deep dive into the Easter eggs

[quote] She killed Sparky for a reason: she wanted to see if he could be brought back. That was an experiment. An evil one but an experiment none-the-less.

[quote] Again: Agatha isn't evil,

So you're saying she isn't evil, but she committed an experiment you admit is evil, which is killing a dog just to see if it can be brought back to life. How can she have committed an experiment that is evil and not be evil?

You must be the same poster who used to tell Datalounge over and over again that the aliens in SIGNS were not menacing or evil but just trying to communicate.

[quote]So you're saying she isn't evil, but she committed an experiment you admit is evil, which is killing a dog just to see if it can be brought back to life. How can she have committed an experiment that is evil and not be evil?

Good Lord! I wish anything in this sentence made sense.

There was so much left hanging by the last episode. I'm not disappointed since I somewhat expected it But Marvel need to find a balance between sequel bait and actual plot resolution.

Meh.

Blah villains, as ever, with Marvel.

Villainwise I think the fact the final cutscene has Billy and Tommy screaming for help implies Agnes wasn't the final villain. We never see them actually disappear, and we never find out who her husband is. Satan's bride and all that shit. And she genuinely seems more terrified by what Wanda is unleashing with her powers than what Wanda is actually doing to her in the end. But we'll see. In the end I think the fact Multiverse of Madness is no longer coming out just a month after the finale but a whole year really damages the show.

I think the final episode could've done with 10 extra minutes, just to let the episode breathe a little as everything felt rushed. I have a feeling that covid affected the final scenes, Darcy had an offscreen exit, Haywards resolution was weak and it just felt odd. I reckon the original plan was for a Strange cameo but because of the delay in releasing DS2, they changed it so it wasn't as heavy in setup.

I need to process but I gotta say I love the Scarlet Witch costume. The details on the legs are so Silver Age.

Skrull lady is taking Monica to Carol "up there" (outer space)?

R458 The skrull lady was talking about Nick Fury who was last seen at the end of far from home on a space station.

I agree with a previous poster about Agnes / Agatha. She is driven by accumulating knowledge. Her own coven vilified her for it even though the general quest for deeper knowledge of magic made witches a prime target for the bigoted men of their time.

On the show she is driven by finding out more about Wanda. That is her main agenda. Once she finds out who Wanda is, her own hubris kicks in and she thinks, because she knows more about magic than Wanda, that she should be the one who can manage the powers of the Scarlet Witch. But Wanda doesn't agree and punishes her by making her the noisy neighbor, always on the look-out for secrets to unravel, permanently.

LOL, sorry. Nosy neighbor, not noisy.

Great fights and special effects! It had a movie budget and they used it really well. Loved that the Vision conflict ended with a philosophical discussion. So appropriate for Vision. He's the least flashy Avenger and it took this show for me to fully realize how much I like him. Such a noble character.

I didn't exactly find Agatha "blah" but the mystery of Agnes was more interesting than the reality of Agatha.

Hayward, now, was really trite and just plain bad. All the SWORD stuff was clunky IMHO, even most of the Monica parts. I like the actress though and I'm looking forward to more of her.

Elizabeth Olsen did great work but I'm kinda bummed about this depiction of Wanda. It seems she didn't actually have some kind of psychotic break, she was just a selfish asshole. And now she's studying The Darkhold because that's a great idea. Hopefully she's on a redemption arc and not a tragic villain arc.

Multiverse of Madness when??!!

You can tell they scrambled to tie everything up, this last episode was a mess. They tried making up for the lack of action in the show and went out full green screen wires bonanza. The effects were terrible as well. Her costume doesn't look that good as well, that wig isn't very convincing. A mess overall.

Yeah. The last episode was disappointing. So many things I wanted to know and see that ... weren't there. It didn't feel like a resolution. It didn't seem earned. What happened to White Vision? He just sorta disappeared.

So in the end, Agnes was really evil all along, despite what the poster above claimed.

Talk about fucking up the Peter character. Pathetic af.

Talk about fucking up the Agatha character.

Talk about fucking up the White Vision character.

Talk about fucking.

The brother reveal was the most disappointing. We got all worked up for nothing.

I was happy that so much absurd speculation by fans was proven wrong. I no longer have to roll my eyes each week when people talk about Mephisto or Nightmare appearing out of the blue, Señor Scratchy being anything other than Agatha’s familiar, Fietro being Quicksilver from another universe, Fietro and/or the expansion of the hex introducing mutants to MCU, Reed Richards appearing as Monica’s aerospace engineer, Fietro’s exclamation of “demon spawn” having any significance, Dottie being anything other than a regular townsperson, Ralph being anything other than a typical never-seen character on a TV show, etc.

There was barely enough airtime in total in the series to tell the story of Wanda, Vision, Agatha, Monica and Hayward. It would be impossible with that constraint to add more major characters or additional storylines, and anything else would have detracted from Wanda’s story. If there were 4 or 5 seasons, some of these additional twists could have occurred later on, but not with just 9 episodes and most of them being a half hour. Fans were letting their wishful thinking and their knowledge of the comics get in the way of analyzing the show logically.

No Peter. No Strange. No Reed. No Mephisto.

NO MORE MUTANTS!

[quote] I was happy that so much absurd speculation by fans was proven wrong.

The internet has given birth to so many insanely fervid and invested group theories that fail to pan out, it’s not even funny. When the house of cards invariably comes crashing down, the theorizers all get so angry. Get ready for the Zach Snyder JL fanboys to start gnashing their teeth next.

It’s all like QAnon with the world's lowest stakes.

One of the worst cases I witnessed on DL was in a thread about the first season of Westworld where some fans guessed the twist early on and other fans were dismissing it. Then when the twist was revealed the fans, who dismissed it, turned on the show and said it was total bullshit.

I can't enjoy being pissed off at the ending of this show unless I had some weird emotional investment in the theories as to what was going to happen.

I thought it was quite good. Wanda's character has evolved to the next stage so she can figure out who she is. The White version of the Vision has had his memories restored, so we can look forward to their being reunited once he figures out more who he is; Agatha has been shuffled off and Wanda said she might need her again, so we can have the potentially helpful version of Agatha from the comics (since Agatha's memories have been wiped). We heard Tommy and Billy's voices calling for their mother at the end, so they will almost certainly be coming back. Plus we now have the Monica Rambeau character as an adult and now with all her Photon/Spectrum powers.

There will still likely be a Big Bad coming from this down the road tied to all this since Wanda was seen at the end reading the Darkhold, and the Darkhold is tied to a big supernatural villain in the Marvel Comic Universe (i.e. Chthon).

I thought it felt super rushed, particularly the first ten minutes. But what really floored me was Monica saying things like “If I had your power, I’d bring my mom back to” and then her absolving Wanda’s horrific behaviors by saying “They (the townspeople who were held hostage) will never know what you sacrificed for them”

First off, we just saw ten minutes earlier these people begging to be released because they were under mental torture. Some even requested death. Dottie/Sarah spoke about her eight year old daughter who was forcibly locked in her room for a week like all the other children in the town. How the fuck is Wanda a martyr in this situation?! New Vision spent the most of his one week relationship with Wanda desperate to get away from her and she was not a good mother to the twins. Why are we rooting for this family to stay together? Why is Monica so quick to absolve her?

I don’t know if Marvel is intending for us to view her as a hero right now, but I’m not.

[quote]I don’t know if Marvel is intending for us to view her as a hero right now, but I’m not.

Nothing good will come from her reading The Darkhold so I'd say no, you shouldn't.

[quote]Fans were letting their wishful thinking and their knowledge of the comics get in the way of analyzing the show logically.

I don't know if you can blame them. Some of the fan ideas were much better than what the show ended up doing.

[quote]I agree with a previous poster about Agnes / Agatha. She is driven by accumulating knowledge. Her own coven vilified her for it even though the general quest for deeper knowledge of magic made witches a prime target for the bigoted men of their time.

Agatha said her thing was taking power from people who didn't know how to use it. She already had read that Wanda was going to destroy the world and so far, Wanda was proving her right. She was right that Wanda was torturing those people. The only person she's really a villain to is Wanda.

And she'll definitely be back in Dr. Strange. Her line to Wanda, that one day she'd need her, was pretty on the nose.

If you think about it Wanda's coping mechanism dragged everybody around her into an abyss of misery. She was selfish thinking her being happy in her made-up world would automatically mean that everybody around her would be happy, too. Why? Because they couldn't possibly be happy in that run down town she saw when she entered the town. And they probably were not happy, but her mental prison, she created for their minds, was even worse.

Agatha said something to the effect that Wanda doesn't know what she is capable of and how her powers work and Agatha was right. Wanda didn't know, or realize, that the townspeople suffer while playing along.

A villain knows that he inflicts pain onto others, but he doesn't care.

An anti-hero cares and is distraught and feels remorse when he realizes what he has done and at least attempts to redeem himself somehow.

Agatha enjoyed using her powers to hurt people, and gloated while she did it. You're just hanging by your fingernails onto this weird theory you had she's not a villain.

Wanda was not conscious of how her power worked (this has been repeated again and again in the last three episodes), and did not know she was hurting the other people in the town until the last episode when they told her point-blank. She was immediately horrified, and she let them go.

Isn't Wanda sort of cold in the comics? If so, then her not openly apologizing to the towns people is in character. I think it would show growth in female superhero protagonists if there was a female who could be distant and less warm, she isn't the young girl from Sokovia anymore. She's hardened , alone and battle worn

The Darkhold, bringing back the twins and learning to control her powers are setup for Doctor Strange 2 but I think the open threads with new Vision and Agatha are setup for a sequel series or Scarlet Witch solo movie. I doubt DS2 will have time to focus on all of it and new Vision and Agatha are very personal plot points for Wanda.

So, does this series completely invalidate Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

I mean, if Agatha had the Darkhold in her possession her entire time, then that erases an entire continuity of Agents of SHIELD, doesn't it?

New Vision could turn up again in another Avengers movie.

Bettany teasing a major cameo didn't do the show any favors, since the major cameo he was referring to ended up being ... himself, as White Vision.

I think whatever the new Avengers team is like it won't be dealing with things like new Vision, with Kang appearing in the next Antman movie I think he will be the big antagonist of that movie, probably sort of stand alone in the way the first Avengers was, simplify things again as it was getting very involved by Endgame. The lineup is probably Strange, Captain Marvel, new Black Panther, Falcon Captain America, Antman, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Shang Chi and maybe She-Hulk.

the finale was definitely a let down

[quote]I mean, if Agatha had the Darkhold in her possession her entire time, then that erases an entire continuity of Agents of SHIELD, doesn't it?

She didn't.

The Darkhold started out in Agents of SHIELD and then ended up in hell thanks to Ghost RIder.

Then Morgan Le Fay/Elizabeth Hurley in Runaways got hold of it and wanted to merge Earth with the Dark Dimension but was stopped by The Runaways. Tina Minoru, the rest of PRIDE and the Runaways trap her in the Dark Dimension. (She also had a connection to the book and could sense when someone touched it so it would have been easy for her to find it after the Ghost Rider hid it.)

Then Agatha Harkness got it.

It seemed muddled to me.

Why was Wanda fighting? Not for her family. Agatha said she'd let Wanda keep her fake world. Was she fighting to keep her power? Because she hates Agatha? Because she didn't believe Agatha? Okay, but that's not what got set up.

What happened to white vision? What happened to Agatha? Wanda (cruelly) put her back in her Westview character. Okay, but then she got rid of Westview, so....

But R486, wasn't the implication in the show that Agatha had had the darkhold since the 1600s?? If there was any indication she'd only recently obtained it, that was something I clearly missed...

[quote]wasn't the implication in the show that Agatha had had the darkhold since the 1600s??

R488, I just went back and checked since she didn't even say the name of the book until the last episode of the series. I didn't hear her say that. I think all we know is she came to town with it and she'd already read it by that point. They did imply that she had been researching things back in the 1600s above her age and station but they didn't mention the Darkhold then.

The book was implied to have been kept by Doctor Strange before all of this which connects to Tina Minoru since the same character/actress were in that movie long before Runaways with the Staff of One. And we know that The Avengers takes place in the same universe as Agents of SHIELD.

So the book (although it looked different the first two times since they probably didn't have the budget for it) is likely the same book from all three MCU projects and has just been moving around as it usually does.

(Although Agents of SHIELD changed the origin of the book to being from Dormammu and the Dark Dimension rather than Chthon which ties into Dr. Strange since he fought him.)

R487 Westview still exists, but without Wanda’s touches or influence. So Agatha now lives in the real town of Westview, NJ. Because Wanda isn’t mentally suffering anymore I imagine Agatha’s mind is just wiped and Wanda put in a new personality so she doesn’t have dark urges. When Wanda releases the effect she’s back to normal with her old memories

I preordered the Agatha Pop Funko.

R491

*Funko Pop

[quote]I preordered the Agatha Pop Funko.

I thought about getting one after she sang her theme song, but now that she brutally attacked our sweet Wanda, I don't want her in my house.

r493 Can't tell if your're serious, but she was trying to provoke her to use magic. If Wanda refused, Agatha can't just take it from her it seems.

[quote] Why was Wanda fighting? Not for her family. Agatha said she'd let Wanda keep her fake world. Was she fighting to keep her power? Because she hates Agatha? Because she didn't believe Agatha? Okay, but that's not what got set up.

She knew Agatha was her enemy because Agatha had just last episode drained power from her (leaving Wanda's body enormously aged and depleted), trapped and immobilized her, flung her around bodily around physically (hurting her), blasted her, psychologically tormented her, and was physically hurting Wanda's children.

Of course she fought her.

Agatha was a nosy bitch who deserved to get some serious "get off my back, bitch!" punch and delete bitch slapping.

[quote]Wanda was not conscious of how her power worked (this has been repeated again and again in the last three episodes), and did not know she was hurting the other people in the town until the last episode when they told her point-blank. She was immediately horrified, and she let them go.

So you're saying that Wanda did not know she was causing harm by holding people hostage and telepathically reprogramming their minds.

Interesting position.

r497, grieving people are more selfish than usual. They wallow in misery. They don't see how their grieving impacts others and ignore all kinds of things including social cues.

[quote]The Darkhold started out in Agents of SHIELD

Is the Agents of SHIELD worth watching?

I enjoyed the series. I think it also helps that I have some Marvel knowledge but mainly the basics, so am not looking for the multi-verse stuff. I was really only concerned about Pietro in how he was within this series relating to Wanda. The whole alternate X-Men potential was lost on me.

I think when Wanda had her break and modified the town and created Vision she was out of her mind and probably not aware or thinking of the people or had defense mechanisms that completely blocked it out. I think as the series went on there were cracks in the self-denial but was still unable to deal with or process it. Not to excuse what she did but I think her grief, esp. early on did a good job on her blocking out that element much of the time.

I did feel for Wanda and Vision and felt that relationship worked. I did not care as much about the kids, because they showed up late in the game and you never really saw them as a family unit except when Wanda was manipulating them. I thought their was a loss of her seeing her dream of a normal family life disappear, but not so much feeling about those two kids in particular. I did think the tucking them into bed as their final scene was well done though.

It was not perfect, but I enjoyed the series. More high concept shows need to stick to limited episodes and do one or two short seasons. Lost, Twin Peaks, I suspect Stranger Things is going to feel like that in retrospect.

I do think the show was elevated by the acting as well -- Wanda, Vision, Agatha, and down to some of the townspeople who had little more than cameos.

[quote]Is the Agents of SHIELD worth watching?

Over-all yes, but the first season is really rough and difficult to get through. But it gets AMAZINGLY better in the final bits of season one, through season two, and into season three.

I loved it, personally, but will acknowledge it's far from perfect. But it has an amazingly good resolution/finale.

Marvel has indicated they don't necessarily treat the "Agents of SHIELD" show as canon, so I'm not sure the use of the Darkhold there will be carried through to their shows on DisneyPlus and movies from now on.

[quote]So you're saying that Wanda did not know she was causing harm by holding people hostage and telepathically reprogramming their minds.

She was pretty clear on not getting what Monica was saying when she told her, "The only lies I told were the ones you put in my mouth." And being surprised by Dottie, even blaming Agatha for making her say that she locked up her daughter, and the others. As Vision pointed out, Wanda didn't know what was going on at first then figured out that she was in control later on and went with it but she didn't know the extent. She really thought, as she expressed, she was giving them a better life.

[quote]Marvel has indicated they don't necessarily treat the "Agents of SHIELD" show as canon, so I'm not sure the use of the Darkhold there will be carried through to their shows on DisneyPlus and movies from now on.

There's the Joseph Loeb years and the Kevin Feige years. Joseph Loeb said they were all linked and they were written that way. When he left and Kevin took over he said he saw Disney+ as a new start to tell new stories but he didn't clearly state that everything before didn't matter. Some people interpreted that as them starting over.

Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter might be the only shows that are safely canon, The movies acknowledged both shows. Agents of SHIELD stayed in lock step with the Avengers films since Coulson's first appearance in the movies and the events of Agent Carter are mentioned in Endgame. (Agent Carter is also on Disney+ and Agents of SHIELD was allowed to do its entire run instead of being cancelled.) Those two shows are unique because of that.

Cloak & Dagger's and Runaways are both on Disney Plus so they are under that banner already.

However, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders, Punisher, Jessica Jones are in question. They were all originally connected prior to the Disney deal. The twist is that Cloak & Dagger and Runaways mention Netflix MCU characters. Detective O'Reilly from Cloak & Dagger mentions knowing Misty Knight from Luke Cage and in Luke Cage Season 2, they mention Detective O'Reilly. Little things like that happen including mentions of Tony Stark and (Danny) Rand's companies on Runaways and Cloak and Dagger.

And out of that bunch: Daredevil (especially), Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Cloak and Dagger (which actually was successful for Freeform) are the ones they have expressed light interest in bringing back.

Agree with you r476 that Monica's lines illegitimately absolved Wanda.

Moreover, Monica's "I'd bring my Mom back" directly contradicted her previous statement to Wanda about Monica's grief for her Mom was something she didn't want to deny because "it's my truth".

Well, which is it?

Loved WandaVision but since Ep 7, my ardor dimmed slightly and I think it's because the excellent writing and pacing slipped the last 3 episodes and it got a bit sloppy.

Rewatching the show to see how it works all together. The sword stuff peaks when Wanda exits the hex for the first time and threatens hayward, it never feels as interesting or as relevant again after that. They should've had all of sword swallowed by the hex and Hayward dealt with during that ending, then move into the final act with Wanda coming to terms with her grief and Monica walking into the hex, without that random side plot of her scientist friend building a space rover that added nothing.

The boys should've been the ones to stop Hayward, he threatend their mother multiple times and tried to shoot them, speed should've chased after him with wicca using his magic to transform Hayward into something dumb. And Monica should've been more involved in the fight, even just to add something different visually from laser beams and ball magic, I have a feeling marvel mandated that Monica couldn't show to much of her powers as they want to hold that off for Captain Marvel 2.

Jimmy should've been hired by sword, I was shocked that they didn't go down the route. I have a feeling the final episode was the one most affected by covid, Darcy only appeared once and I think they used cgi to place her in that truck, so either the actress wasn't safe to return to work or the scheduling didn't work out, as her resolution was very weak.

[quote] The boys should've been the ones to stop Hayward, he threatend their mother multiple times and tried to shoot them, speed should've chased after him with wicca using his magic to transform Hayward into something dumb.

Like maybe a human jack-in-the-box. Vision could have later made Billy wish him into a cornfield outside of Westview.

So a friend is insisting that Agatha wasn't actually real, and was just a projection of Wanda's dark side.

I think that's ridiculous.

What say all of you?

r506, I was wondering how the hell Agatha conveniently got herself in the hex in the first place, let alone create a inviolate sanctuary without Wanda's knowledge or feeling.

Well, she is a witch.

So, Jimmy (the FBI agent) having someone from the witness protection program go dark (aka being trapped in Wanda's world) was just a red herring?

r509 I don't know if I'd call it a red herring so much as it was the writers creating a convenient reason to get Jimmy/ Monica and then SWORD and everyone else on scene, and then the theorists just ultimately over speculated they did everything else in the show. The fact Jimmy didn't seem to give a shit about them while he was commandeering the hardware store for evidence doesn't imply they ever were, or will be important.

r510. My bad. I should've written plot device then instead of red herring.

r509 They'll tell us eventually what was and wasn't affected by the pandemic including Darcy's disappearance at the end, Jimmy Woo's storyline, Hayward's hamfisted cartoon villainy, the hexagons, Senor Scratchy, the lack of Dr. Strange, etc.

If I had to guess though, it was probably a teaser for a future story/character that's unrelated to the current plot so they put it off.

Did they ever explain how Coulson died in Avengers and then was suddenly alive again for thr tv show?

R513 Yeah, Fury had an experimental thing that could revive people using alien blood. It was during the bad first season, so it was a weird plotline.

The TV Shows:

Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are at least soft canon. More easily able to retcon than the films (except for losers like 'The Hulk'), but MCU *does* have to retcon. They're given the most basic respect, but not significant regard. Future projects could pull from these shows just as Star Wars could pull from Bioware's KOTOR Revan character. 'Coulson' is indeed out there, basically canonically. SHIELD is rebuilding but in little shape to intervene with much.

Inhumans would be included in this group, but its become the black sheep that I think no one wants to deal with. At most, the show will become super soft canon (like 'The Hulk' film) or enough time will distance it so high ups can just handwave it away for a reboot down the line, that still respects Inhuman presence in Agents of SHIELD but puts the Inhumans show in the trash.

The Netflix shows (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Defenders, Punisher) could go three ways. The first way is bringing them into the soft canon relevance of the shows above. The second way is to basically ignore the Netflix versions as just 'other tales', but bring back things like story elements and actors. Like bring in Daredevil's actor, but handwave his origins and history, maybe even reboot his conflicts. The third way is to leave these shows, and even their actors behind and do a fresh take that acknowledges that the deal with Netflix never really worked out. So far, we really shouldn't be considering these shows to be part of the MCU, even if there were the lightest of nods to it. Until further notice, we shouldn't imagine things like "Wow, what is Jessica Jones doing during X event in New York?" Yes, we CAN imagine these things, but we shouldn't.

Side series for younger adults were Runaways and Cloak and Dagger. These shows are even less integrated into the MCU, even if they use more material from it than the Netflix shows (example, the Darkhold is in Runaways and fits into AOS's timeline). I'd say these shows position in canon is more 'in the closet' - effectively less canon than even the Netflix shows, but probably more easy to pull their characters/actors out and it can still make some sense. Personally, I'll disregard these shows too.

Similar is Helstrom which may have been intended as MCU but is already divorced from any connection.

Disney+ shows - so far just Wandavision, but Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and Loki are coming soon (also a What If.. animation), Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye soon after, with SEVERAL more in production or planning, with potential for followups/second 'seasons' of earlier shows if they can fit into the MCU timeline and schedule. These shows, with possible exception of What If..., are all definite canon, though they might get sidelined in respect to future films.

So realistically, it is just Agents of SHIELD, Agent Carter, and Wandavision so far. The rest are a toolbox that could be opened for bits and pieces to be used, or they can be utterly ignored.

Cloak & Dagger had an utterly amazing first season that I loved.

Season two was utter crap, impossible to follow, and just basically awful.

Then it was cancelled.

The trailer of Cloak & Dagger made it look like it's Sense8 Lite with two characters sharing a bond that makes them see what the other one sees and experiences.

Well, that's part of it. But it was really good. I encourage anyone and everyone to watch season one. Don't bother with season two.

I think it must be a little difficult for Feige to accept the earlier marvel tv stuff as canon as it was overseen by both his old boss who was extremely difficult to work for by all accounts and Jeff Loeb who was a racist and enjoyed screaming at kids. I remember an interview with the writers of the Russo's marvel movies, just prior to Civil War, and they were asked about Inhumans in the movies and their possible introduction, the writers were very mocking of the Inhumans in Agents of Shield. So I don't think the shows are thought of highly by the main studio.

The Inhumans show was fucking awful.

Wasn't Inhumans the show that was canceled before it aired a single episode?

It was awful, but it was the Inhumans in Agents of Shield that the writers were particularly mocking off, I don't think the Inhumans show was out by that point.

If the rumors are true, Ms. Marvel will retcon the Inhumans show as an in universe tv show version of the real MCU Inhumans.

R521 No, but it should have been.

R521 That was Marvels Most Wanted, was meant to be a spin-off from Agents of Shield.

Your expectations are not cannon, nerd fuckboys

"As if knowing what its audience wanted, 'WandaVision' flipped the channel on MCU fans to give them what we all needed." - shit? They needed shit?

Anyone who perceives the final Star Wars trilogy as other than a huge mound of woke excrement cannot be respected or listened to.

The problems with the most recent trilogy have absolutely nothing to do with 'wokeness'.

Anyone who uses "woke", "virtue signaling", or "PC Culture" to dismiss media entertainment has nothing of value to contribute to any discussion.

[quote]Hayward's hamfisted cartoon villainy

The more I think about it the more I wish SWORD had been a much much smaller part of the show. Nothing about it was integral to the story of Wanda's grief except maybe the amusing meta stuff about TV viewers. And I would have found the moral ambivalence more palatable if SWORD agents weren't confronting Wanda with the reality of her actions.

I especially disliked Wanda exiting the hex to warn Hayward to leave her alone with her 3,000 tortured hostages. That undermines the idea that she didn't know what she was doing. Not that I necessarily mind making Wanda the person who tortures 3,000 people if they actually engage with that and there are consequences. I just have a problem with shrugging it off.

I was going to start a thread for Falcon and Winter Soldier but I can't think of a funny title. Any ideas?

Maybe a play (although admittedly a stretch) on the movie, "The Falcon and the Snowman"?

An interesting article about how Corona affected the story

[quote] The studio was originally planning on releasing the first three episodes simultaneously, which makes sense with the narrative arc they set-up. However, they only finished the finale around two weeks before its official release, which means they had faced a lot of crunch time. If they went with their original plan, they would’ve had to delay the finale.

[quote] It also seems that the engineer’s tease was 100% intended, but was getting worried when people suddenly expected Reed Richard to show up. A lot was left on the cutting room floor, so it may have originally had a bigger pay-off. They also confess that a lot of CGI edits were a bit awkward, as pointed out by Smith, as they had to finalize those post-lockdown. Monica was even originally going to have a bigger role in the finale, such as her, the kids, Ralph, and Darcy trying to steal the Darkhold from the basement. There we would find out that the bunny Scratchy was a demon. It was all filmed but they couldn’t finish the VFX for it.

[quote] Monica was even originally going to have a bigger role in the finale, such as her, the kids, Ralph, and Darcy trying to steal the Darkhold from the basement. There we would find out that the bunny Scratchy was a demon. It was all filmed but they couldn’t finish the VFX for it.

That is a shame. Not only did the show fall victim to Covid-19 but also ended up with a rush job execution.

r533 It was still successful though in terms of telling a story about the stages of grief and the Scarlet Witch's origin story. We also got the origins of Photon, Wiccan, and Speed.

r534. I could've been even better though.

Bettany looked attractive again in this, even in the Vision makeup. He's so slim aging has hit him hard. Marvel seems to gift all their actors in that way, though.

Olsen is luminous. Amazing since her sisters truly are crones, now.

Loved Teyonah Parris' portrayal of adult Monica. Hope we get to see her slap the shit out of Carol in CM2.

Randall Park continues to be an utter delight! I hope he's the new Coulsen, and shows up in every one of the Phase 4 movies.

Hate, hate, hate Kat Demmings voice. I wince every time she and her udders are on-screen. Shit actress.

Hahn was wonderful.

I want a Scarlet Witch solo project where she hears about some magical fuckery going on in Sokovia and needs the help of Agatha, so they join forces and pay a visit to Wanda's home country that is in the midst of rebellion and political strife, led by Doom who plans to take over and rename Sokovia to Latveria, he is using magic to manipulate the people of the country. Setting the stage for Dooms interactions with the F4, Latveria as a problem country and bringing Agatha back into the MCU and in a better place than an enemy of Wanda's.

Shut up and take my money R537!

According to a former fuck buddy who's been involved in casting some Marvel projects, they're still searching for the right actors to play Wiccan and Speed for the next decade, so only tween Wiccan and Speed will appear in Multiverse of Madness. Hulkling was narrowed down to several finalists before the pandemic hit but Marvel let them go and decided to find a younger teen due to the delay of their entire slate. They're very intent on finding LGBT actors for these roles, which lengthens the search.

R539 If they just look for gay actors it would be easier.

So the current plan is MoM ends with the kids still as kids then offscreen they've aged up to 16-20 year old twinks?

[quote] They're very intent on finding LGBT actors for these roles

They are also considering lesbians and trans actors for the roles of two gay guys??

Speed has become bisexual in the comics.

Yeah but lets be honest the chances of Tommy's bisexuality going beyond subtext are slim to nil.

Great show

r539 Update: It's (pretty much) official! Allan Heinberg, creator of Young Avengers, is adapting the series for the MCU! Besides creating Young Avengers in 2005, he's best known for screenwriting the first Wonder Woman movie and tv shows

R4 Uhm, that's the whole point of the children: to show how powerful the Scarlet Witch is. She and Vision didn't have sex to conceive them. She created them out of nothing with chaos magic, and used a demon's soul to give them life.

[copy]She created them out of nothing with chaos magic, and used a demon's soul to give them life.

Is Ivanka Trump the Red Witch?

[quote]She created them out of nothing with chaos magic, and used a demon's soul to give them life.

Is Ivanka Trump the Red Witch?

ugh