London Put in Emergency Lockdown as U.K. Fights New Strain

If the vaccine is not effective to this new strain , I cannot imagine what the world will become . 2020 could be the best year in the next decade

The videos of St. Pancras with Londoners fleeing the city while they can are crazy. What a mess. The five day holiday break was a bad idea from the jump, and this just makes it worse.

JFC, enough!

Gaia is being a cunt.

Their Christmas goose is cooked.

I have no doubt President Dumpfuck will do nothing to stop it from coming here.

Didn't anyone tell the UK our election is over? What's with all the restrictions and lockdowns?

Why is Boris "Herd Immunity" still in office? Even Donald "It's just like a flu" Trump has been kicked to the curb.

Scotland and Wales have issued travel bans throughout the holidays.

Is Harrods considered essential shopping, since they’ve got the food hall and all?

People are still being idiots. I live in Vancouver where it’s not so bad and people are just tempting fate. You still see idiots on the sky train not wearing masks and nobody is enforcing it and people are still taking the ferry to go visit family for Christmas.

[quote] People are still being idiots. I live in Vancouver where it’s not so bad and people are just tempting fate. You still see idiots on the sky train not wearing masks and nobody is enforcing it and people are still taking the ferry to go visit family for Christmas.

For the life of me, I don't fucking understand this.

2,500+ are dying every day in America, and people are just following their old routines like lemmings to their death. I don't understand.

[quote]People are still being idiots. I live in Vancouver where it’s not so bad and people are just tempting fate. You still see idiots on the sky train not wearing masks and nobody is enforcing it a

The masks make no fucking difference they just make people FEEL as though they're protected.

Everyone screeching about the masks is getting annoying.

Bah Humbug

[quote]The masks make no fucking difference they just make people FEEL as though they're protected.

Yes, interesting that there are no mask surveys. California is crazy for the masks and it's made no difference.

Scientific resources right now are dedicated to finding effective treatments, cures and vaccines since thousands are dying daily and tens of thousands are getting sick every day, so no one has shelled out for large scale mask efficacy studies. But my best friend lives in LA, and I assure you, while everyone's wearing masks at the store, they're not wearing them at the raves, parties, clubs and everywhere else. So that's why it's not working there.

Boris and Donald have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams at implementing their herd-culling policy of letting the disease run its course through the population.

R14 It's because there are still plenty of people who still don't wear masks that California is in deep shit, and of course there are still people coming in from states that don't even bother with any mask mandate. There is really no true lock down in the US so the virus is still free to roam from coast to coast. Masks and shelter in place can only do so much at "flattening the curve" locally but they are not a complete solution.

I’m watching London based Instagram accounts of all the traffic etc...pretty interesting from a locals pov

R16 Thinning the herd has always been the aim for diseases in the "free world". But they wanted it to be done more like a mystery flu quietly offing the aged, the poor and the weak, but this pandemic shit show where the whole economy caves in is not exactly what they envisioned.

Marry me, r12. Virtually of course. I stay indoors, ingest net 75g carbs daily and have enough Vitamin D3 for two pandemic years. You can have half my Vitamin D3 and my whey isolate powder.

How would SkyTrain enforcement work? Have a plainclothes security officer in every car, pushing with a 2-metre stick offenders off at the next stop?

Well good luck, no jobs in 2021, no money in 2021, plenty of homeless in 2021. No one is going to care about lockdowns or tiers anymore, what's the point when life is miserable and restricted, might as well risk it and have a little fun before the end.

[quote]might as well risk it and have a little fun before the end.

If you're healthy and under 60 it's not such a fucking risk. Most people get over it in a week. I did and I'm 57. The cough lasted a bit longer.

In Italy they will fine you 400 to 100 euro if you are not wearing a mask. And that means outdoors too. Step out of your home and you must be wearing a mask. And that is since October.

But still, for the past week their number of daily deaths are equivalent to about 3,500 deaths a day in the US.

Go figure.

^ 400 to 1000 euro

R22 I dont mind a hard 6 week lockdown to protect the vulnerable but the UK has been awful at this that they arent protecting anyone, so if they keep this up everyone might as well drop the pretense of trying.

[quote] Didn't anyone tell the UK our election is over? What's with all the restrictions and lockdowns?

Huh???

So are the vaccines working or not??

R27 They are, but they are giving them to care workers (makes sense) and people who are about to die any day now from old age (makes less sense).

[quote]How would SkyTrain enforcement work? Have a plainclothes security officer in every car, pushing with a 2-metre stick offenders off at the next stop?

At this point, I'm good with shoot-on-sight.

Vaccines will work R27 - but not for at least 6 months or so until everyone has been vaccinated.

Once everyone has been vaccinated the virus will slowly die out with small out breaks here and there until it has gone after about 2 years. That's how vaccines work.

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[quote]So are the vaccines working or not??

For those who have received the vaccine, I assume they still have to mask up and social distance and keep business as usual until they receive their second shot in three weeks to a month to make sure it's durable. Let's see if Lady G can follow protocol.

You can still catch it after the full vaccine and still be contagious. But there’s about a 95% chance that if you do get it, you’ll barely be sick if at all.

Another thing about this is if you have tested positive with covid and die within 28 days of testing, it doesnt matter how you die you are put down as a covid death. This is dumbest thing I have ever heard, in 20 years time when the real numbers come out I wont be surprised if it wasnt as bad as they made out.

Yes R33. That's what the vaccine does - limit your reaction (barely be sick as you have said) to Covid because you already have antibodies. The medical community are still trying to work out if it means you are contagious but they assume you probably are and will give it to others who have also been vaccinated so their system reactions will also be low.

And eventually the virus won't have anywhere to go because everyone is immune.

Just fuck off R34.

Intelligent response, R36 - anything to add, pea-brain!

Wow, R31. That's just like 28 Days Later!

BTW, what does vitamin D3 do for you?

Someone mentioned it upthread.

[quote]The masks make no fucking difference they just make people FEEL as though they're protected.

Evidence from every public health expert in the world says that's triple-distilled military-grade horseshit.

The fact that NINE MONTHS INTO A GLOBAL PANDEMIC we still have people vehemently denying the germ theory of disease is mind-boggling. The human race is literally too fucking stupid to survive.

[quote]Everyone screeching about the masks is getting annoying.

I guess you'll just have to live with people annoying you with reality. And while we're at it, drink bleach.

Where are all the Londoners headed on their trains, cars, and buses?

Isn't the lockdown being imposed for the entire country?

Or is it just London?

[quote] that's triple-distilled military-grade horseshit.

[quote]And while we're at it, drink bleach.

tuffgurl talk, from a frightened fairy.

Thank you R39. There are some low info morons with the loudest voices out there. Wear a mask, distance, stay away from indoor gatherings, wash your hands and try not to touch anything public - save yourself and others. It's science.

they're all getting away before the lockdown kicks in, R49

[quote] Wear a mask, distance, stay away from indoor gatherings, wash your hands and try not to touch anything public - save yourself and others.

It's saving no one, you parrot!

[quote] 2,500+ are dying every day in America, and people are just following their old routines like lemmings to their death. I don't understand.

We are too lazy, selfish and entitled. Decades of affluence, people and prosperity have worn down any ability on the part of westerners to deny themselves anything, to think of anything but their own selfish wants.

Hasn’t gun control in America demonstrated that already? After Sandy Hook, I gave up on the West as a lost cause. If anything would cause Americans to stop in their tracks and radically re-evaluate gun laws, it should have been the savage murder of 25 kindergartners by a teenaged asshole. But what happened? Denial. Counterattacks, conspiracy theories. NO ACTION.

You think covid is bad? It’s a walk in the park compared to a worse pandemic or other supreme test of willpower. Under that strain America will NOT pull together and work for the good of the country, as we like to fool ourselves into thinking. Our society will collapse. I can’t speak for Europe or ANZ, but I wouldn’t be shocked if the result was the same.

Yet the Chinese overcame it. So did the Japanese. They did it by wearing masks — universally — and in chinas case by locking down. They all kicked in for the public good. Something that SHOULDN'T BE so hard.

All those Londoners don't come from London, they are from the counties or the North and a few from Wales and Scotland. They are heading "home".

[quote]Intelligent response, [R36] - anything to add, pea-brain!

No. There's no point in engaging with Covid deniers who seek to minimize the pandemic like you R37.

[quote]No. There's no point in engaging with Covid deniers who seek to minimize the pandemic like you [R37].

I didn't deny it - I said I've HAD THE FUCKING THING.

[quote]We are too lazy, selfish and entitled. Decades of affluence, people and prosperity have worn down any ability on the part of westerners to deny themselves anything, to think of anything but their own selfish wants.

Well, that's not true for all western countries R45. You better let New Zealand and Australia know about it.

[quote]Wear a mask, distance, stay away from indoor gatherings, wash your hands and try not to touch anything public - save yourself and others.

Brain washed. Do you say that in your sleep? Do you wear a mask alone in your car? Bet you do.

Both very small countries that can easily seal themselves off from the outside world, r49, but even if that’s true, and it may be, the exception proves the rule.

[quote]I didn't deny it - I said I've HAD THE FUCKING THING.

This is what you said R48 - "I wont be surprised if it wasn't as bad as they made out" at R34. i.e. the usual minimization horseshit spewed out by the Covid denier crowd. No mention of you having it.

You either are one or you should choose your words more carefully.

Now, just fuck off.

[quote]This is what you said [R48] - "I wont be surprised if it wasn't as bad as they made out" at [R34]. i.e. the usual minimization horseshit spewed out by the Covid denier crowd. No mention of you having it.

No, I think that was someone else. LoL.

This idea that the UK is too selfish to lockdown is bullshit. We would've complained and moaned if we had a hard lockdown in the beginning but we would have followed and that's the British way. Unfortunately we have a prime minister and a leading political party that are more interested in the finances of the country than the safety of its people, so we were sent mixed messages and confusion and denial ensued. Now we have a mess of death, job losses, mental health crises, a health crises from delayed treatments, financial crises and much more because of the simple fact that our great leader can't get his shit together. If Scotland and Wales had any sense they would put up a hard border, follow the New Zealand plan and not take down the border until England gets itself under control.

Although being islands helped R51 - both New Zealand and Australia followed medical and scientific advice and followed the pandemic control treatment guidelines. Hard lockdowns, closed borders, quarantines and personal/business economic support.

Nobody liked it but they all just shut the fuck up and did it.

The UK is also an island. So that explanation doesn't fly. Also - both NZ and Australia have exactly the same densely populated cities as the US or Europe. Just less of them.

This is a specific American issue. I agree with what you have said @R45 but it is 100% true for Americans - not all western countries. I don't know if it is true for the Brits and will let them comment.

The resident rat-licker is beneath comment.

Worth noting that the US never truly did a lockdown the likes of which helped NZ, Australia and China. A lockdown means you are NOT LEAVING THE FUCKING HOUSE. You step outside without a documented reason to do so, $1,000 fine off the bat.

And it worked. NZ is COVID free.

"Also - both NZ and Australia have exactly the same densely populated cities as the US or Europe. Just less of them."

Oh dear what R57?

Y'all do realize we're gonna redo all those zombie movies to factor in Americans who'd rush towards the zombies because FreedomEagleMAGAPatriot told them on the internet that zombies aren't real?

So, mutation will basically mean a vaccination each year just like the flu shot right?

Nobody knows yet R60.

[quote]Why is Boris "Herd Immunity" still in office? Even Donald "It's just like a flu" Trump has been kicked to the curb.

Trump is still in office for another month. Plenty of time to do lots more damage.

Is all of the UK in lockdown?

I'm wondering about a friend who lives in Bath.

R45 It's too late really for these western countries that let the virus get all over the place for months already. They would have to lock down everyone, do a full screening for virus carriers, and quarantine a lot of people. Not likely in a "free country" that prioritizes individual rights over public good. They will have to take the mounting deaths and wait for wide-spread vaccination (itself a challenge) to tame the virus in six months or a year. This pandemic will end but the toll will be much higher than for more competent countries.

R42 absolutely. But I will also add when these protocols are followed, lockdowns (or closing of indoor/outdoor dining, etc) are totally unnecessary.

In Manhattan (where, unlike Calif), the vast majority are very compliant, the infection rate peaked at 3.2%. And only 1.4% (this is from the CDC) came from indoor dining. It’s family and private gatherings that are responsible for the spread. So this new closure is unnecessary (the opposite of surgical) and just destroying the city.

We need things to be open but with strict, sensible, and well enforced rules. Because they absolutely do work and stop the spread.

At least all the gloating Californians have STFU about how superior they are. The entire fucking state is shut down.

R66 it’s the OC. The anti/mask protesting there is insane and disgusting (and yes, deplorable).

Lots of Russian anti-mask propaganda on this thread, I see.

They're still hard at it, seeking to maximize damage in the West - spreading the claim that masks don't work, sowing distrust in the vaccines, urging the abandonment of social distancing, etc.

[Quote] At least all the gloating Californians have STFU about how superior they are. The entire fucking state is shut down.

Really? I'll have to tell the THOUSANDS walking and driving around in my {25,000 pop} little city in Los Angeles that. Btw, where the fuck are all these cunts driving towards? EVERYTHING IS FUCKING SUPPOSE TO BE CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fear of a slightly hurt economy (aka greed) fucked the whole world.

A united message of "keep yourself and others safe" would have resulted in a lower death count and helped the economy to face fewer disruptions when people act more considerate while working, shopping, using public transport, or spend money while socializing.

But, of course, some individuals used the pandemic for their own nefarious gain and fucked the rest of us.

R63 No. Bath is still in Tier 2 (of 4) as of this morning.

Jesus - right on cue the usual suspects chime in to explain why the USA is *special* and why countries like Australia and New Zealand have had it easy.

It’s about compliance, civic-mindedness, listening to medical professionals and acting on their direction and giving a flying fuck about people other than themselves.

I’m in Sydney - we’ve had a surge in new cases after a long run of no community transmission. The local government area where I live went into lockdown at 1700 Saturday night. It’s now 1530 Sunday afternoon. We can go out for food shopping, medical appointments, visits to pharmacies and exercise and that is it. I just got in from food shopping - hardly anybody out, especially for a summer Sunday afternoon in a beachside suburb and the majority of people wearing masks (advised but not mandated).

Contact tracing and genome sequencing are underway and while I didn’t vote for either the state or federal governments I trust them to get us through, even though there have been / will be fuckups along the way.

But you American exceptionalists keep coming up with reasons why the USA is different and special - good luck with that.

[quote]tuffgurl talk, from a frightened fairy.

It's a good thing I don't have physical access to you, you pathetic, sniveling, trolling, misleading, public-health-threatening, flat-earther, ratlicking cunt.

I though Australia had beat Covid?

I've seen my own Aussie facebook friend out and about maskless and taking group photos.

I thought it was over there.

We thought that we had R74 and just when the brakes came off and we were looking forward to Xmas in the sun, it came back. The most likely cause is a flight attendant from a USA airline who was asymptomatic and didn’t stick to the requirement to quarantine during their layover in Sydney.

The numbers are relatively low (68 cases in a city of 5.5 million) and we’re pretty good at contact tracing and genome sequencing but it shows that you can’t really be too vigilant.

Any vaccine is NOT a cure for a virus. It simply reduces the chance of a serious illness-- just like the regular flu vaccine. Increased mutations mean this years vaccine is much less effective on this lethal virus-- more lethal than standard influenza. There is no cure. We will be doing this: (mask/lockdowns/vaccinations for years, if not forever

It's far from over everywhere. The drama is heightened now because of the holiday season and a few people arguing in favor of harming themselves and others for a free dinner and presents.

[quote]Where are all the Londoners headed on their trains, cars, and buses?

Downtown.

The way Los Angeles is going I think 2021 is almost over. Even with the vaccine. There are so many fucking assholes living here. I never knew but NOW I know. Note taken.

R74 Western Australia has replaced its hard border overnight to NSW residents while they trace the "patient zero" breach. I definitely feel for NSW while they are in this predicament, no matter how manageable it may be.

WA Premier Mr McGowan said he did not "point fingers" over what happened but said NSW needed to "kill the virus". "They seem to be engaging in a form of whack-a-mole," he said. "They step on a gym here, a restaurant there ... They need to stop the virus." He pointed to South Australia's and Victoria's harsher COVID-19 measures as a successful way to combat the spread.

“Very small countries”, R51? Australia is approximately the same size as continental USA (excluding Alaska). Not exactly small.

The population density is very low - 25 million people in such a huge country, but the two largest cities - Sydney and Melbourne - have populations of 5.3 million and 5 million respectively. Larger than all but a couple of US cities (NYC and LA - not sure about Chicago).

There is nothing easy about handling a pandemic in cities that large.

And as for being an island? It’s the 21st century - people tend to arrive by air rather than sea these days. As they do in the USA. And securing a coastline of 35,000+ kilometres is no easy feat.

Besides, Great Britain is an island, and a much smaller island than Australia, which is 32 times as large. How do you think their island status is protecting them, R51?

Maybe best to get your facts straight, “Bootsy”, before you mouth off about something about which you know so very little.

I think they want the old and elderly to die, they cost them a lot of money in terms of health care and is a drain on resources. They have very good welfare system, free healthcare etc. Look at sweden, etc.

[quote] A united message of "keep yourself and others safe" would have resulted in a lower death count and helped the economy to face fewer disruptions when people act more considerate while working, shopping, using public transport, or spend money while socializing.

Something like this is effective...

r34 That is a gross distortion of the truth that strips out all detail and nuance.

r45 So true. Some future pandemic I was reading in a science journal could throw up a virus with a kill rate of 60 to 70% and it would not just be the old. If that happened western societies will be tested to destruction. If that had happened this time there would be millions now dead in the UK .

r51 You think Australia is small??

[quote]And only 1.4% (this is from the CDC) came from indoor dining. It’s family and private gatherings that are responsible for the spread. So this new closure is unnecessary (the opposite of surgical) and just destroying the city.

Stop arguing this bullshit. Where do you think the people passing it around their families at these private gatherings got infected? The one asshole who went to the bar without a Saturday night before Wednesday dinner with the family. Unfortunately, these people have to be treated like toddlers and the rest of us must suffer.

Why the fuck aren't the ending air travel for two months? End. All planes grounded except cargo planes and emergencies.

There are 36,000 Australians currently listed as stranded overseas as registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT). The mandatory quarantine cap sits at 6,000 arrivals per week, and one per hotel room for 14 days quarantine which is elevating daily costs for the Australians still unable to return. About one-quarter of the stranded number are classed as vulnerable.

[quote] There are 36,000 Australians currently listed as stranded overseas as registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Maybe they never should have left, in the first place.

Too bad!

Does every new strain require a new vaccine?

[quote] Does every new strain require a new vaccine?

More importantly, does every new strain require a fucking lockdown??!!

[quote] This is a specific American issue. I agree with what you have said @[R45] but it is 100% true for Americans - not all western countries.

The actively destructive Trump administration has added jet fuel to the situation here in the US, there’s no doubting it, but this is not just an American problem. For instance I have a lot of English friends and a really shocking number of them are covid skeptics and anti-vaxxers. And flouting the rules certainly isn’t unique to the US.

In fact, despite all the talk in the UK media about the high US death toll, the UK’s death rate is just as high — in fact it’s very slightly higher. And death rate is what matters, not death toll.

The numbers in case anyone was wondering:

UK death rate: 1 in every 1,000 people have died of covid

US death rate: 1 in every 1,050 people have died of covid

R91 It does if Boris hypes it up as a scapegoat for his own failures.

Death rate per million as of yesterday per Worldometers.info

1 San Marino 1,619

2 Belgium 1,589

3 Italy 1,133

4 Peru 1,116

5 Slovenia 1,113

6 Bosnia and Herzegovina 1,108

7 North Macedonia 1,092

8 Spain 1,046

9 Andorra 1,035

10 Montenegro 993

11 UK 986

12 USA 974

13 Czechia 961

14 Bulgaria 946

15 France 925

16 Argentina 920

17 Mexico 905

18 Armenia 882

19 Brazil 874

20 Chile 839

The US death rate is accelerating faster than the UK one and the US should overtake the UK soon. Having said that, there is no uniformity about the way deaths from Covid is reported around the world so the absolute rates here are less informative than the trends in the individual countries.

The WHO confirming the new variant originated here in England and that they were notified back in September of it.

R96 and the government conveniently held off until the majority had finished their Christmas shopping to let them know about it and lockdown, this whole mess has been about money first and safety last.

We are all gonna die. Tell your loved one you love them, say your prayer and meet your end.

A new year, a new strain.

Now, wouldn't that be something if the introverts and shut-ins are the ones outliving the extroverts with their desperate need to socialize? Life worth living 'n all.

[quote] 9 Andorra 1,035

Sad about Andorra.

Their population skews older, so my guess is that it's taking a heavy toll on their people.

The same probably applies to San Marino at number 1, although I don't know much about that country.

I thought you were supposed to be a fucking NURSE Bootsy-Gumdrop?

I don’t understand, they were aware of this new strain weeks ago. Also I can’t read anywhere how they know or how they’ve researched that this strain is more contagious. Honestly I’m getting tired of the headlines who make people panic, come with some decent info ffs.

Everybody - especially the media - are flying by the seat of their pants R102. Nobody actually knows anything. It will be years before we know the ins and outs of COVID-19.

They knew about it but cared more about the economy than anything else, so kept it quiet. If this lockdown does go on past January, with the added bonus of no deal Brexit, I expect mass civil unrest.

City on lockdown, city on lockdown!

R104 I think so too. It’s going to be tough for the UK to overcome the pandemic and Brexit. It’ll take a decade at least. The Brits better prepare for poverty.

So in other words, the vaccines are going to do fuck all and this shit is going to continue for the rest of our lives, which may not be very long if the virus mutates too much. Wonderful news.

Prepare, R106? Same old, same old.

R103, “nobody knows anything”.

They should ask the experts here on this thread. They know everything.

(I agree with you; nobody knows.)

So how do we get this new strain into the vaccine? Why are we inoculating people against something that is old news?

R106 With the current version of the tories in charge, that have been around for 10 years, it's going to take longer. I don't think the United Kingdom will survive this.

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R103 is the most sensible, realistic post I've read in the past 9 months. WW!!

R92 That's true. As a native Brit now living in the US I have noticed a worrying trend of liberal Americans believing that everything is Trump's fault and everything is better outside the US. It's worrying because the same issues that led to Trump are also present in most Western countries and the far right movement has used Covid to spread their message online where there are no borders so there are just as many idiots and protestors in other countries when you adjust for population size. I have noticed the typical suspects in my circle (those who were loudly pro Brexit) jumped right on the 'covid is a scam' train. But others who were fairly moderate found the far right when searching for covid and now they are covid deniers but also have started spouting far right talking points and posting links to far right think pieces as if they were fact.

I think 2021 is another write off. I don't think there will be mass civil unrest in the UK but I think people will become further divided, the us v them will be even more deeply entrenched and Brexit and poor leadership will mean Britain is in for a very hard decade.

I thought COVID was just going to just disappear on the 4th of November? This is getting old.

My god, R112, that's terrifying.

I don't know what's gotten into people these days. Everyone seems to be lying about anything and everything of importance. There were so many mistakes made by a whole lot of people to get to the point where a man died of COVID on a flight.

Covid denial/conspiracy seems to have become another tenet of the conservative movement. It's 'interesting' to click the twitter profiles of the conspiracy theorists because you will find they are crazy pro-lifers, religious nuts, hard core US conservatives, raging Tories or gun nuts and often a combo. One guy posted on a friend's tweet a crazy conspiracy and dude had been to a funeral for aborted babies (maskless) in Poland a few days ago!! I think the world is completely screwed as we will never again be able to bring people together and unite enough to fight any 'enemy' We will destroy ourselves, we don't need climate change to get rid of the human population.

I love face-masks. I no longer have to get up the nerve to show my face to the world.

[quote] We will destroy ourselves

A path humanity has been on since it crawled out of the slime. Greatly hastened by overpopulation, hypocrisy, and the technology to turn the Earth into a sphere of radioactive dust. With their novel virus, China simply pushed the pedal closer to the metal on the out-of-control humanity clown car.

The thing is that bigots fully embrace their multi layered bigotry and hypocrisy nowadays all in the name of owning the Libs.

There is no actual angle to confront, shame, or argue with them. It's really like they are from a different, alternative reality dimension that is somehow connected with ours.

[quote]After Sandy Hook, I gave up on the West as a lost cause.

Gun control isn't symptomatic of a "western" problem; it's a US problem, and even in the US the majority favor stronger gun control laws, particularly concerning semi-automatic weapons (and the support is increasing). Be more specific: the American problem, which has its counterpart in other countries, is the influence of lobbyists or more specifically of money in politics. The horrifying inaction in the US on gun massacres and climate change (etc.) comes from a conviction at the top that short-term profit for the few trumps everything else, and this is obvious in the response to Covid, too. Propaganda has gotten a minority to repeat the lies we're seeing in this very thread—it's unbelievable that 10 months into the pandemic there are still people mouthing the bullshit about masks not being effective.

"Nobody knows anything" Yes we do. It's a virus. Viral infections follow a pattern. Read the wiki or google. What we don't know is how many will die.

FYI, for all the doomsayers/special snowflakes on this thread: Humanity survived the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918. Of course, it’s estimated that nearly 100M people died worldwide. But we have a much better grasp of medicine and have had huge breakthroughs in science, and continue to do so. The problem isn’t necessarily stupid people because people weren’t so stupid back then - the problem is POLITICS. The political stance back then was to completely ignore it and ban newspapers from even reporting on it. Hard to believe, but the political problem seems much worse now. They never even had a vaccine. But politics is truly misdirecting and misinforming people which appears to be worse than total silence.

And religion r119. A destructive force since forever. Note that the UK has exempted religious gatherings from lockdown.

To those in London - are the streets empty?

The UK Health Secretary said this morning that the reason for these late restrictions was that the variant wasn't found to be 70% more virulent by scientists till Friday.

The back bencher who wants the Health Secretary to resign said he believes the Government knew about the 70% new virulence in midweek, but held back on new restrictions till MPs left Parliament for 'the holidays.'

At any rate the PM has been made to look specially questionable after mocking the Opposition leader in the week for urging more Christmas restrictions. Johnson was notably lacking in gusto at yesterday's emergency Briefing, knowing full well not only the serious new health situation, but also how his would-be festive beneficence gambit has been self-cancelled.

Have yourself a merry solo Christmas!

[quote]The thing is that bigots fully embrace their multi layered bigotry and hypocrisy

New Covid strain? Does that means those hundreds of millions of Pfizer vaccines are USELESS?

The thing is that bigots, bigotry and hypocrisy are not restricted to a particular political ideology, ethnicity or race. The "them"/"us" paradigm is simply more bigotry and hypocrisy.

[quote]Viral infections follow a pattern.

No, they don't. If they "follow(ed) a pattern", there would no reason to call Covid a "novel virus". Same with AIDS. Another novel virus.

VIRUS:

A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism.[1] Viruses infect all types of life forms, from animals and plants to microorganisms, including bacteria and archaea.[2] Since Dmitri Ivanovsky's 1892 article describing a non-bacterial pathogen infecting tobacco plants and the discovery of the tobacco mosaic virus by Martinus Beijerinck in 1898,[3] more than 6,000 virus species have been described in detail[4] of the millions of types of viruses in the environment.[5] Viruses are found in almost every ecosystem on Earth and are the most numerous type of biological entity.[6][7] The study of viruses is known as virology, a subspeciality of microbiology.

When infected, a host cell is forced to rapidly produce thousands of identical copies of the original virus. When not inside an infected cell or in the process of infecting a cell, viruses exist in the form of independent particles, or virions, consisting of: (i) the genetic material, i.e., long molecules of DNA or RNA that encode the structure of the proteins by which the virus acts; (ii) a protein coat, the capsid, which surrounds and protects the genetic material; and in some cases (iii) an outside envelope of lipids. The shapes of these virus particles range from simple helical and icosahedral forms to more complex structures. Most virus species have virions too small to be seen with an optical microscope, as they are one-hundredth the size of most bacteria.

The origins of viruses in the evolutionary history of life are unclear: some may have evolved from plasmids—pieces of DNA that can move between cells—while others may have evolved from bacteria. In evolution, viruses are an important means of horizontal gene transfer, which increases genetic diversity in a way analogous to sexual reproduction.[8] Viruses are considered by some biologists to be a life form, because they carry genetic material, reproduce, and evolve through natural selection, although they lack the key characteristics, such as cell structure, that are generally considered necessary criteria for life. Because they possess some but not all such qualities, viruses have been described as "organisms at the edge of life",[9] and as self-replicators.[10]

Viruses spread in many ways. One transmission pathway is through disease-bearing organisms known as vectors: for example, viruses are often transmitted from plant to plant by insects that feed on plant sap, such as aphids; and viruses in animals can be carried by blood-sucking insects. Influenza viruses are spread by coughing and sneezing. Norovirus and rotavirus, common causes of viral gastroenteritis, are transmitted by the faecal–oral route, passed by hand-to-mouth contact or in food or water. The infectious dose of norovirus required to produce infection in humans is less than 100 particles.[11] HIV is one of several viruses transmitted through sexual contact and by exposure to infected blood. The variety of host cells that a virus can infect is called its "host range". This can be narrow, meaning a virus is capable of infecting few species, or broad, meaning it is capable of infecting many.[12]

Viral infections in animals provoke an immune response that usually eliminates the infecting virus. Immune responses can also be produced by vaccines, which confer an artificially acquired immunity to the specific viral infection. Some viruses, including those that cause AIDS, HPV infection, and viral hepatitis, evade these immune responses and result in chronic infections

Not sure R125, as I mostly go out early in the mornings. But this isn’t a surprise, people have been lax about masks and social distancing for months, especially young people. Plus it was ALWAYS ridiculous to think COVID would take a 5 day holiday over Christmas. That never made any sense. Boris keeps thinking he can win this politically and he just keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over. Like Trump, he isn’t really leadership material.

He said yesterday that Christmas wouldn’t be as expected - and failed to mention that New Year’s Day would be even worse when we crash out of the EU while on lockdown. These people really aren’t in touch with reality, he and Truro just think this is one big game.

Belgium and the Netherlands are banning flights from the UK

R130 The UK should've shut down all flights in March, in and out of the country and went into hard lockdown as New Zealand did.

And Australia R131.

[quote]Sydney and Melbourne - have populations of 5.3 million and 5 million respectively. Larger than all but a couple of US cities (NYC and LA - not sure about Chicago).

R81 New York (19.22M), LA (13.21M), plus Chicago (9.46M), Dallas (7.57M), Houston (7.10M), Washington DC (6.28M), Miami (6.17M), Philadelphia (6.10M), and Atlanta (6.02M) are all larger.

all these cities have big immigrant populations where they are crammed 10 per house or worse...

COVID-19 Christmas lockdown leads to chaos, mass exodus out of London

London saw wild scenes of a weekend mass exodus before the start of a Christmas lockdown and travel ban sparked by a new, more infectious mutation of COVID-19.

Within hours of Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s announcement Saturday of a new top-level lockdown for the capital and surrounding areas — one many detractors said had effectively “canceled Christmas” — thousands took to the roads and clogged up train stations.

Witnesses told The Sun it left London like a “war zone,” while journalist Harriet Clugston likened her viral video of people crammed into London’s St. Pancras station to those fleeing Saigon at the end of the Vietnam War.

“Last train out of Saigon,” Clugston wrote alongside her video seen more than 3.1 million times by Sunday morning, calling it “maximum damage guaranteed.”

“As expected, train is crammed … Everyone of course has suitcases,” she said from the train where there were announcements that social distancing “will not be possible” due to how many people were aboard.

She admitted that she — like all the others on the train — had “made what is probably a very silly and irresponsible decision to travel.”

But the last-minute announcement of the lockdown created “a very predictable stampede of people rushing to get out before the midnight deadline,” she wrote.

“It’s this that created crowds of people which increases the risk of virus transmission on the train.

UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock on Sunday ripped the “clearly totally irresponsible behavior” of the masses rushing to travel before the midnight start of the lockdown.

“People should unpack their bags if they have them packed,” he told Sky News.

Hancock insisted the government had been forced to act “quickly and decisively” because the new mutation of the coronavirus “was out of control.”

The strain — which accounts for more than 60% of new infections recorded in London — appears to be more transmittable than previous variants, making it “more important now than ever” to control it, Hancock said.

“This is a deadly disease, we need to keep it under control, and it has been made more difficult by this new variant,” he told Sky.

R133 All lost on our resident dimwit Australian.

Also: the busiest airport in the entire world for passenger traffic is located in the US. And 4 of the top 10 airports are in the US. Australia comes in at 49.

And that's just one of so many facts. You simply cannot compare the US and Europe to Australia on so many levels.

WHO: England’s new Covid-19 variant picked up in Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia

From CNN’s Arnaud Siad in London

The new Covid-19 variant, originating from south-east England, has been identified in Denmark, the Netherlands and as far as Australia, World Health Organization (WHO) Covid-19 technical lead Maria Van Kerkhove said on Sunday.

"We understand that this variant has been identified also in Denmark, in the Netherlands and there was one case in Australia and it didn’t spread further there,” she told the BBC in a pre-recorded interview.

Asked whether it was her understanding that the new variant originated or evolved from southeastern England, she said: “It is, yes. From the information that [the UK] shared with us in either south-east England or in London, yes.”

She added that “the UK had picked [the existence of the new variant] up in September and seen that this had been circulating in south-east England since September.”

“It is of concern that the virus is spreading and that it has so many mutations,” she said.

She also added: “We understand that the virus does not cause more severe disease from the preliminary information that [the UK] shared with us, although again those studies are underway to look at hospitalized patients with this variant.”

Van Kerkhove said that doing more sequencing will be helpful in determining whether this variant is circulating elsewhere.

“The longer this virus spreads, the more opportunities it has to change. So we really need to do everything we can right now to prevent spread,” she added.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R138 It's all Trump's fault!

[quote]But my best friend lives in LA, and I assure you, while everyone's wearing masks at the store, they're not wearing them at the raves, parties, clubs and everywhere else. So that's why it's not working there.

R15, perhaps the problem isn't that people aren't wearing masks at raves, parties and clubs but that raves, parties and clubs in LA haven't been closed down.

R139 Says every selfish white American gay who make this and every thing about Trump and Republicans.

They're just upset that their privilege can't get them the one last seat at the Privileged Table. They don't care about anyone but themselves and how despite being white and privileged, they are still denied one final entitlement.

These are the Buttiwhatever trolls.

They don't care about COVID, BLM, or anything else but for Gods sake stay home and wear your masks so their aging high-risk asses don't die before their Republican family members finally see the light.

R14, It only takes a few not wearing masks. See: Trump Administration.

Our UK Government is right of centre. It's leadership is very much swayed by libertarian principles. It's with that as a backdrop, that they pressed for an easing of restrictions over Christmas. That was a political decision, not grounded on scientific evidence which saw growing infection rates in London and the SE of England, despite the lockdown. The new variant was first spotted in September.

The lack of an effective track and trace, the lack of clear messaging to the population, the lack of sufficient economic support to the population, means that we're seeing infections grow and the virus is currently out of control here.

The blame for that lays firmly with Boris Johnson and his government. Of course it's totally irresponsible for infected people to travel, but the might and the resources of government are there for exactly these times.

[Quote] The virus will never go away because people are liars.

[Bold] Especially Americans.

R144 Especially Californians

Yes, 144!

[Quote] Especially Californians

Did you think I wasn't going to agree, asshole?

Russell Brand asks us to consider whether a Sham/Scam-demic is being used to mask a transfer of power during the Brexit handover. What say we?

I say he's a nutter, but that's me being kind.

Brand is an idiot who believes to beat the right wing you must stop voting, they would love nothing more for left wing people to stop voting, they hate democracy!

What do we expect from a country whose PM can't even control his hair?

Um, R151 - people in glass (White)houses...

r133 those are metro area populations, not cities. But if the Australian ones are metro areas, too, then your comparison is appropriate.

Perhaps, finally, this is the end of the world. Hooray

R154 Cheer as you are murdered, along with other men that you know and the woman that you know are brutally raped and then murdered. While the rich fly off to New Zealand. That's what the end of the world will be for us.

[quote] and the woman that you know

Just the one, dear?

[quote] and the woman that you know are brutally raped and then murdered

I don't know her.

How does Australia keep taking over these threads. Don't be so smug.

R158 14 seasons of state sponsored propaganda from the TV show “Border Security: Australia's Front Line”

I don't know them.

Do they know yet why the new strain is more easily communicable? It was already airborne. Does it infect eyes more easily? They said the spike protein that it uses to infect cells is unchanged so it's not that it's more easily infecting cells. I can't think of a way it would be more infectious without a change to the spike protein.

The new strain is 70% more communicable it was said on the news tonight.

"Why is this one different?

It is important to note that many of the mutations defining the UK variant have been observed in SARS-CoV-2 before and even sometimes quite early in the pandemic.

Yet the UK variant, or lineage, is defined by an unusual number and combination of mutations. One of these mutations, N501Y, has previously been shown to increase binding of the virus to receptors in our cells. N501Y was first sequenced in a virus in Brazil in April 2020 and is currently associated with a SARS-CoV-2 variant also rising in frequency in South Africa — an independent lineage from B.1.1.7 that is also warranting concern.

The particular deletions identified in the spike protein of B.1.1.7 have appeared in multiple other lineages of the virus at increasing frequency and are also observed in chronic infections where they may alter antigenicity — recognition by immune antibodies. These deletions may also be associated with other mutations in the binding region of the coronavirus spike protein, including those observed in infections among farmed mink and a mutation shown to play a role in the virus's ability to evade the immune system in humans. B.1.1.7 also harbours a truncated ORF8 gene, with deletions in this region previously associated with decreased disease severity.

The functional effect of these mutations and deletions, particularly when in the combination reported in B.1.1.7, are still to be determined. The high number of mutations and the recent increase in prevalence of this particular variant, together with the biological relevance of some of the mutation candidates, emphasises the need for in-depth study."

£ crashing.

Europe and the world blockading us.

Our UK Government is right of centre. It's leadership is very much swayed by libertarian principles. It's with that as a backdrop, that they pressed for an easing of restrictions over Christmas. That was a political decision, not grounded on scientific evidence which saw growing infection rates in London and the SE of England, despite the lockdown. The new variant was first spotted in September. The lack of an effective track and trace, the lack of clear messaging to the population, the lack of sufficient economic support to the population, means that we're seeing infections grow and the virus is currently out of control here. The blame for that lays firmly with Boris Johnson and his government. Of course it's totally irresponsible for infected people to travel, but the might and the resources of government are there for exactly these times.

As you should know there's no such thing when it comes to a UK government response to Covid. Wales has a left wing Labour government, Scotland has a left of centre nationalistic government and England has a right of centre nationalistic government.

It's worth noting that South Wales is by far the worst affected part of the UK despite having taken a deliberately different approach to England.

All 3 governments agreed to relax rules over Christmas, all 3 governments changed their rules on relaxation at the same time.

Goodbye, England!

[quote]Our UK Government is right of centre. It's leadership is very much swayed by libertarian principles. It's with that as a backdrop, that they pressed for an easing of restrictions over Christmas. That was a political decision, not grounded on scientific evidence which saw growing infection rates in London and the SE of England, despite the lockdown. The new variant was first spotted in September. The lack of an effective track and trace, the lack of clear messaging to the population, the lack of sufficient economic support to the population, means that we're seeing infections grow and the virus is currently out of control here. The blame for that lays firmly with Boris Johnson and his government. Of course it's totally irresponsible for infected people to travel, but the might and the resources of government are there for exactly these times.

As you should know there's no such thing when it comes to a UK government response to Covid. Wales has a left wing Labour government, Scotland has a left of centre nationalistic government and England has a right of centre nationalistic government.

It's worth noting that South Wales is by far the worst affected part of the UK despite having taken a deliberately different approach to England.

All 3 governments agreed to relax rules over Christmas, all 3 governments changed their rules on relaxation at the same time.

Thanks, we got it the first time, r165/167.

Health was devolved to the 4 nations of the UK as it's a bit potato, which is surprising given that it's supposed to be a National Health Service. Now we get different countries' administrations tacking the virus differently, but coordinating where they see fit.

EU meeting to coordinate it's response

France is blocking the ferries and tunnel for two days and the UK is facing empty selves and food shortages. Brexit and living on an island kinda sounds like a bad idea if you're that dependent on supplies from other countries. Just sayin'.

New virus mutation on top of all the Brexit drama. 🤣 Brits are fucked. Time to get off your high horses.

I wonder how many members of Boris' cabinet will themselves not abide by the restrictions and still travel to their second homes in the country for Christmas. That has been a consistent pattern throughout the pandemic: politicians advising and ordering the people to abide by the rules and then assuming that the same rules don't apply to them.

[quote]I wonder how many members of Boris' cabinet will themselves not abide by the restrictions and still travel to their second homes in the country for Christmas. That has been a consistent pattern throughout the pandemic: politicians advising and ordering the people to abide by the rules and then assuming that the same rules don't apply to them.

Jeremy Corbyn should have been fined the maximum for his lockdown dinner party. Stanley Johnson should have been fined the maximum for his frequent "forgetfulness" around wearing a mask. Enforcing the law and making sure everyone abides by the law by singling out two old wealthy rich posh men would have sent a strong message to everyone.

It's now 3 months since Margaret Ferrier took a return train journey from Scotland to London and speaking in the House Of Commons whilst having Covid. The Scottish Nationalists still haven't expelled her from the party although she remains suspended.

R158 Australia really shouldn't be too smug right now.

[quote]It's worth noting that South Wales is by far the worst affected part of the UK despite having taken a deliberately different approach to England.

I have heard the army is set to be deployed in Wales to assist with the vaccine rollout.

Don't forget that asshole Dom Cummings, R173.

The Oxford vaccine is supposedly set for approval by the 29th and will be rolled out very quickly hopefully. There will be a need for mass vaccination centres which the military will be involved in, r175. Or at least that is my understanding. These types of centre won’t really work with the other vaccine currently available because of storage issues.

I guess this is what "Taking Back Control" looks like. 🤣🤣🤣

How effective is the Oxford vaccine?

R179, it apparently has an efficacy of 62% and let's see just when it gets emergency authorisation.

Sydney is about to go into lockdown within 3 days.

62%? That all?

[quote] 62%? That all?

That’s at least as effective as vaccines for mumps, measles - which is rarely seen nowadays. It’ll do.

R180, it ranges from 62% effective to over 90% effective depending on different circumstances, age ranges, dosage levels etc. It also appears to greatly reduce severity of COVID in those it isn’t completely effective on which is helpful.

Hold me Philip. I'm scared.

[quote]Don't forget that asshole Dom Cummings

Boris didn't forget him, he gave him a 40K bonus.

No it doesn't "range" according to "different circumstances, age ranges, dosage levels etc." The trials have found a 62% efficacy. A very few participants under the age of 55 received a half-dose/full dose regime that may have 90% efficacy but the number of participants was so tiny that this dosage will not be authorised right now and more trials are needed.

Oxford's latest announcement refers only to the two full doses regimen, i.e. 62%. There is also not a "range" of efficacy and no average efficacy can be claimed. There is a two full doses regime that has been shown to have a 62% efficacy and a tiny trial of a half-dose/full dose regimen which suggested 90% efficacy but the MHRA will not consider that for authorisation and no other regulator will either. Regardless, you cannot calculate an "average" for two different dosage regimes.

Consequently, there will be a problem with the Oxford vaccine, if it is authorised (and that is still a if for the time being). Do you give people the 62% efficacy Oxford vaccine or the 95% Pfizer efficacy vaccine? The current priority groups are far more vulnerable and should be given the 95% Pfizer vaccine, so what do you do with all the 62% efficacy doses? Start vaccinating those in their 20s and 30s before those in their 70s?

It should also be noted that if the UK authorises the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine the first few million doses will be shipped in from the Netherlands, where they are being manufactured by contractors. For some reason, the Oxford and AstraZeneca facilities in the UK are currently unable to manufacture their own vaccine - which in itself raises questions about exactly what's going on with this vaccine.

What happens when the UK runs out of Pfizer vaccine doses, which will probably happen in January, and only has Oxford AstraZeneca doses? Do we continue vaccinating the most vulnerable with the lower efficacy vaccine, even though it does not provide as much protection for them or wait until more Pfizer doses eventually became available?

[quote]Our UK Government is right of centre. It's leadership is very much swayed by libertarian principles.

And look at left of center Spain, France, Italy and Belgium. They haven't done much better. Some even worse..

Politics, party affiliation, and philosophies do not matter. How politicians react and manage a crisis matter. Greedy and self-serving politicians happen to be everywhere, and they fuck up the response to a pandemic for everybody else, because they have only their own interests in mind.

Power corrupts.

It's interesting because part of my job has been driving around LA since early November and I haven't this rampant disregard for mask wearing people are talking about. It's simply not true unless people are waiting until I'm gone to take their masks off and I doubt that is happening.

Everywhere I've gone, all over the Valley, Santa Clarita, downtown, Hollywood, West Side, Pasadena, just about every individual you see has a mask on.

There may be large numbers of people somewhere in the county who are not observing mask wearing, but they aren't in the areas most people think of as Los Angeles and adjacent communities.

Somebody is telling lies.

R190 So in other words, people are wearing masks but the virus is surging anyway. Interesting.

No lies R190.

Come to Santa Monica. You will see mask-wearing, certainly. But you'll also see joggers, bikers without masks and shoppers wearing it around their neck or under their nose, and I'll introduce you to my neighbor. He works out of his garage and sees people all day long. I have never seen him wear a mask.

London is a ghost town after city goes into strict COVID-19 lockdown

[quote]So in other words, people are wearing masks but the virus is surging anyway.

In other words, they're wearing masks in public because it's mandated, they're not wearing them in private gatherings, where most transmission is occurring.

r191 From what I've seen yes people are wearing masks.

There are even areas I left out that I've driven to that I forgot to add like Pacioma, Huntington Beach. . . I've been all over the place.

There no areas that I've seen a majority, or even a small minority not wearing masks. So I'm not sure where these people are en masse that are offending.

I have been to Santa Monica r192 and I see people in masks. If people are at the beach (and I do go to the beach) they are not wearing masks. That is where they jog. There aren't joggers in large numbers running through the streets of Santa Monica breathing infected air on passersby. I have not been to 3rd street though. So what you are telling me 192 is that if it is spreading it's all the rich assholes in Santa Monica who are at fault?

R194 is one of those weirdos you see at the traffic lights - wearing a mask while driving alone in his car.

R190, mask wearing might protect but, on the other hand, it leads to less careful behaviour because people think they're protected. That's why for me personally the "wear a mask!" mantra is completely unhelpful. People think that just because they're wearing a mask they can carry on as normal.

The continuing high level of infections in many areas is not due to the odd individual who never wears a mask.

r194 the government is lying to us.

I'm not understanding why you white people are so quick to believe what is being told to you by a media owned and controlled by the billionaires who have bought the political process and the Supreme Court.

What makes you so sure you can trust the information being told to you?

Here's something, I worked with a guy (lets call him Sam) who had his mother and father in law separately in the hospital during early lock down of the pandemic. The reasons they were in the hospital had nothing to do with COVID. His mother was in the ICU. He visited her there, with the precautions in place set by the hospital. Get this. The ICU was not full, not even half full. This is Los Angeles I'm talking about, in a hospital in the Valley. He had the same things happen with his father in law. There was no panic. No over flowing wards with COVID patients. I think his mom was in for a few weeks. Sam logged a lot of hospital hours with his family. What they were reporting on the news, Sam didn't see any of that. So was he at the only hospital in LA during the thick of the pandemic that was not experiencing COVID overload? Or has the media that is controlled by billionaires been spinning a story?

You believe what you want. I'm going to believe my eyes and the experiences of real people.

r190 is also 198.

Just so you know.

[quote]In other words, they're wearing masks in public because it's mandated, they're not wearing them in private gatherings, where most transmission is occurring.

That may very well be the case r194. In which case, private gatherings should be banned and r192's neighbour should be forced to close his garage. This is the problem - government authorities who repeatedly tell everyone to wear a mask but don't impose lockdowns.

The second lockdown ended at the beginning of December and people immediately went back to the gym and restaurants. These last few days I've seen tons of friends post pictures on Social media of Christmas dinners and parties. One friend posted a pic of 10 gays sitting close together at dinner this weekend. No masks, no social distancing. Asked him if they were not worried about the virus currently spreading in London and he said they're all healthy young guys in their 20s and 30s and the lockdown was over.

Even wearing masks you should not linger in an enclosed space or get within six feet of people. Too many think masks give them a license to live life just as they did before COVID. It doesn't work that way.

[quote][R190] is also 198.

Quelle surprise.

I live in Chelsea London and have a small Tesco supermarket across the street but still many in the enclosed space of a store refuse to wear masks and management doesn’t do anything about it. It’s frightening. Same with many places in London. Glad that they shut non essential businesses. The hairdresser I go to in Kensington was allowing their clients to take their masks off just a few weeks ago. My father lives in Virginia and can’t even get into the supermarket without a mask. What gives? Crazy.

I'm on the mailing list for a London restaurant, and as soon as the lockdown ended in early December, they sent an email encouraging people to bring their friends and family for lunch and dinner...

This place was in a fucking underground space with poor ventilation during the best of times!

Is The Vault open?

[quote] to coordinate it's response

Oh, dear!

I’m with r161. How does a virus that’s airborne already become more easy to catch? What’s the science behind that?

Is that like you’d need 5 droplets to be infected by one strain, but merely one to be infected by the second strain?

To R198 and Sam, the "thick of the pandemic" in LA County was not early lockdown last March and April. It's now. People died in March an April, but the ICUs were never overwhelmed. The print news has reported this accurately. My doctor at UCLA said last week, "LA didn't get the surge NYC and the East Coast did last spring. Now we're getting it." She then went on to tell me how scary it is to be in the hospital now, and how many cases she was seeing. The Board of Health told her it's going to be terrible for the next 4-6 weeks at the earliest.

As for mask-wearing which you seem stuck on, read up on Swiss Cheese Model. It's not one thing.

The issue they're worried about here is the transmissibility of the new variant. It's 50-70% more easily transmissible than the original Covid, meaning more people getting sick. Hence threatening to overwhelm the NHS.

R198 is one of the people I'd force to dig graves for COVID victims at gunpoint.

Without a mask of course.

R190 is a Uber/lyft driver or delivers packages for Amazon

R198 s parents spent his college fund on beer and scratchoffs. Sorry, kiddo.

R212 Or he's a porch pirate.

An uber delivery guy on DL has a friend, let's call him Sam, who assured me that some unnamed hospital was lying to us about Covid...

Thank goodness we have a reliable source of info now!

For you deniers, have a look at video footage from Apple Valley. I used to go to raves out here from LA. This looks like NYC and Italy territory. People need to take this seriously. Maybe we need more footage like we got in the early days of Wuhan, doctors wearing diapers so they could work around the clock and Italy. Everyone needs a little reminder. And if you think this is not your community or not your problem, think again. These are the cleaners, grocery store workers, factory workers, etc.

Th reason it is spreading here non stop is because people are wearing masks, but they think that just because they "got tested" before they broke x,y,z rule, "they are playing it really safe". No, that's not how it works. It's an airborne virus. You could get it 5 minutes after taking the test and then pass it to everyone, which is what is happening.

My agent's hairdresser's fuckbuddy told me that there is no such thing as COVID. All the "patients" are being locked up in Area 51 and harvested for their organs.

Why doesn't the media want us to know this??

Yes it's terrible R174! Sydney has 90 cases in total.

There is also 1 case in Melbourne after having zero for over 50 days.

Smug fuckers.

Know what R217?

My sister got all the symptoms two weeks ago, but got tested and it said 'negative'. So she went back to work.

I told her it can take weeks for antibodies to show-up in a blood test.

When will you start the rebellion?

This isn’t science, it is totalitarianism. Our government is fundamentally corrupt.

My brother just flew into JFK from London. There was NO testing upon arrival and NO forms he had to fill out. So, like usual. Cuomo is all talk but has absolutely no control over his state.

And he’s my brother is driving a car to our house in CT, interacting with no one, and spending 5 days alone.

As R12 says-

There is zero evidence that masks outside of a clinical setting provide any protection. At worst, they provide a false sense of security.

R29

Shoot on sight? Yes, any politician that is pushing lockdowns and facemasks deserves it.

Just fuck off R223/R221.

Ignoredar shows you are all over DL posting anti-mask and Covid denier QAnon crap.

Nobody is listening to a word you say...

Why r211?

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I wear a mask and do everything I'm expected to do.

Did I say no people have died because they caught it? No I didn't. It's very dangerous for some people.

What I'm saying is, you can't trust what the media is telling you. Why do you trust a media that is controlled by a few billionaires? Those billionaires own our government and control what happens in our government. If you don't have a problem with any of that then you are one of the ones benefit from this.

I'm not just going to leave all this unexamined. I do not trust the government. I do not trust the media that is owned by Oligarchs who don't give a shit about the citizens of this country.

One other thing, the flu kills a lot of people every flu season, you can look this up. So I guess no one is dying from the regular flu anymore, only COVID right?

[quote] The US death rate is accelerating faster than the UK one and the US should overtake the UK soon.

I’m on it!

[quote] I thought you were supposed to be a fucking NURSE Bootsy-Gumdrop?

I think you have me mixed up with someone else, lol!!!

[quote] Gun control isn't symptomatic of a "western" problem; it's a US problem,

You’re reading too much into the analogy, which was meant to show that people in the west (not just America) are so selfish that they’d rather see a million children die than have to give up done cherished idiotic thing in their lives.

done=some

R174 you’ll be hard-pressed to find any smug people in Sydney today - we on the Northern Beaches have locked down since the weekend, are wearing masks again, getting tested in rapid numbers and are contact tracing and genome testing the results for those of us testing positive to Covid-19.

You know - the way that intelligent and civilised people do.

Try it some time in the USA. And try not to be such a twat.

Also r231, the way that people who live on islands with a relatively small population do.

Try living on a large land mass with 100s of millions of other people.

Sydney had 8 cases today and are in lockdown. How adorable.

In Switzerland fines can reach up to 10 000 Swiss Francs (11289.60 USD with the current exchange rate).

Just this week it was reported, that a train passenger that had been warned by the train police to wear is mask and decided to remove it when they moved on, just to be caught again by the same crew, had to pay 500 Swiss Francs (564.48 USD) for the fine and court proceedings.

Boris Johnson managed to get Jamaicans deported, that came to the UK during the Windrush generation.... well done MEGA (Make England Great Again, as it is predominantly England that voted to leave the EU)

I just read an article in the NY Times, which addressed safety precautions Germany has taken for travelers from London. A 100% testing policy has been implented for all arrivals. The article was full of British cunts claiming their rights were being violated, and in one case a passenger chose to return to London rather than get tested! Glad to know the US isn't alone in having way too many COVIDiots.

both have populist presidents.....

[quote]populist presidents.....

Oh, dear.

R218 Australia has vulnerable and isolated Aboriginal communities to consider. Jail is being used for the worst COVID offenders.

I love Australian English. Thongs mean flip-flops, stubbies mean beer bottles, chunder means to vomit, and vulnerable and isolated means antisocial and irresponsible.

R240 The skank who partied with the rapper in that story is not a native Australian.

[quote]I have heard the army is set to be deployed in Wales to assist with the vaccine rollout.

The Army have now been deployed in Wales to assist the ambulance service. That's how bad it is.

Labour have been in government in Wales since devolved powers are introduced in 1999 and the Welsh Labour government always made a point at how it was well to the the left of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown - the first minister of Wales was a supporter and ally of Jeremy Corbyn.

This it not a left/right issue. It's a competence issue.

BootsyCumdrop is by far the dumbest twat that ever twatted. It had to be said

When I think of Australia now I think of that awful smug cunt Courtney Act from RuPaul's Drag Race and Big Brother. He's not doing you any favors, oz!

R243 = Beamish!

[quote] One other thing, the flu kills a lot of people every flu season, you can look this up. So I guess no one is dying from the regular flu anymore, only COVID right?

COVID is red

The flu is blue.

You’re a fucking moron.

Now I punch and delete you.

GitHub, R244?

User-generated bullshit.

Sorry, R244 - I meant R246 I my post above.

[quote]You simply cannot compare the US and Europe to Australia on so many levels.

I know. Australia would kick our butts.

Population sizes:

Australia = 25 million

New Zealand = < 5 million

UK = 67 million

EU = 450 million

USA = 328 million

It's a lot easier to control a population of 25 million than a population many multiples that size.

That’s right, r247. Just like trump: when unmistakable facts smack you in the face, deny, say the source is faulty or it’s fake.

You’re learning, young grasshopper.

Of course, you could go to the CDC’s site yourself, but nah, that’s too much, right?

... and 'regular' flu deaths are down because, wait for it, people are wearing masks and practicing social distancing. Also- not nearly emphasized as much is hand washing which is the #1 thing you can to to prevent infection.

Fuck Australia and their gigantic rats they call Kangaroos, have you seen the tail? it's fucking gross.

Population sizes:

Australia = 25 million

New Zealand = < 5 million

UK = 67 million

EU = 450 million

USA = 328 million

It's a lot easier to control a population of 25 million than a population many multiples that size.

Meanwhile China with 1.4 billion people is sitting pretty. How can that be with so many people?

Because it's an authoritarian dictatorship, r254.

Belgium 5 mil

Netherlands 17 mil

Luxembourg 500 k

Sweden 9 mil

Portugal 10 mil

Switzerland 9 mil

Your point again? (None of those are better controlled)

Kangaroos are beautiful and awesome beings.

R254 Because China actual let their doctors do the work to eliminate the virus from the population in about 2 months and everything is under control while they develop their vaccines. The west let both the virus and disinformation run wild and free for 9 months with just some preventive countermeasures. You don't do the hard work you can't expect the same result.

It's called a dense population on a land mass, r256. Of course the UK, US and European countries should have done better but comparing them with very different geographical and population situations in Australia or New Zealand or a dictatorship that apparently welded the doors of its people's houses shut so they couldn't get out does not offer any solutions.

Enjoy getting the Sinopharm vaccine, r258. And stop deliberately confusing the bullshit disinformation from Trump and crazy American right-wingers with the "west".

NO country should be gloating right now. We've heard it all before: how Germany eliminated the virus....how Italy's response was a model for us all...etc and etc. Now look.

Months ago the media was full of stories like the one linked below.

But during this month of December, Italy's daily death rate has been as high as 900 deaths in a day. That would be equivalent to 4,500 around deaths in the US.

And Germany's current situation is much worse now than it was in the spring.

The book on the Coronavirus hasn't been written yet. It is a developing story.

Our dimwit Australian should take note.

^That would be equivalent to around 4,500 deaths

[quote] Fuck Australia and their gigantic rats they call Kangaroos,

For some reason this made me bust out laughing. That tickled me so much.

[R250] the math doesn't add up if you look at China and India .... I think the developed countries that are doing such a shitty job are the ones with a spoiled population that is not used to crisis and discipline.

R2683 You believe data coming out of China? And India is a damn mess. Let's not.

R263 China lies and can't be trusted.

In India the median age is around 26 to 27. There are not where near as many oldies for the virus to kill. Also India burns their dead really quickly due to religious practices so their deaths from COVID are under reported, particularly in remote and rural areas.

AND the average life span in India is 68 years. Old people who would have been vulnerable to virus are already dead.

[quote]My brother just flew into JFK from London. There was NO testing upon arrival and NO forms he had to fill out. So, like usual. Cuomo is all talk but has absolutely no control over his state.

Because you're meant to do the test and fill in the form on departure r222, not at arrival.

This is not coming from smugness or anything like that (as I was accused last time I asked this) but what's happening out there? As in - do you know people who are getting seriously ill? Are you stuck inside? Are people that you know (and I'm sorry to ask this) dying?

I'm absolutely being genuine here, I'm in New Zealand and everything we hear from overseas is through our media. It seems things are getting worse? I hear so many conflicting stories...and I'm sure it will hit our shores again in the future.

I wish everyone out there the best.

My friends and social circle have lost a lot of parents.

I never left lockdown. I WFH and stay in my house only leaving for grocery store trips and the gas station and Starbucks.

I also make an effort to go for a walk in my neighborhood just to get out.

R268

Excess deaths in the USA for 2020 will be slightly larger than most years, around 100,000

The age of death for Covid cases is higher than the standard lifespan. Covid is just killing off infirm and elderly people for the most part.

R270 Tell that to the relatives of the younger people who have died.

I mean, in a lot of ways, if you are able to work from home, you can choose to be shielded from the worst of this thing.

I am reading a chapter of a book about Virginia Woolf's time living in London during WWII, and how horrified she was that she would be spending the next few years in war. And how she came back from a weekend in the country, and her house had been bombed, and she had to go looking through the rubble for her diaries that she thought she lost.

We have in America lost almost as many people in 9 months as England did over six years of war. But unless you work in a hospital, you really don't see or experience anything jarring on a day to day basis. My most distinct impression is not the horror of disease, but the disbelief that we have so many fucking stupid people in this country who recklessly risk their own and everyone else's lives.

[quote]Excess deaths in the USA for 2020 will be slightly larger than most years, around 100,000

NYT reports the excess death toll is more than 356,000.

R216 My sister's dogwalker's cousin who scores blow for Christina Ricci said that video is actually just scenes from Grey's Anatomy just like the footage of Osama's killing was just scenes from Black Hawk Down.

"We have in America lost almost as many people in 9 months as England did over six years of war." - This is nothing like World War II or the Blitz r272 and America's population is about 320 million today compared to 38 million for England during the war - in other words, almost 10 times the size so comparing the absolute numbers of US deaths today with English deaths during the war is not a viable comparison.

R268, I’ve been in lockdown since February, because I have medical issues already and I just couldn’t get sick.

I live in Las Vegas, which until about 2008 was majority Republican. There’s a lot of old Republicans that were born here. Over the last twenty years, a lot of younger Democrats from California have moved in, enough to flip the state. But those old Republicans are still around and they do not believe in Covid.

There are three main groups. One, California transplants and their families, wearing masks and taking precautions. Two, old, entitled white male Trumpers that just have to prove how loyal they are to Trump by continually wearing their mask beneath their nose every chance they get. You can literally see who voted for Trump by where their mask is. Three, irresponsible young people that like to go to bars and think they’re immortal.

The governor is a Democrat, and he gave the order to wear masks in public. The entitled old white men tried to recall him twice, but can’t get enough signatures for their petition. But they’re still so angry.

In Vegas, a lot of residents live in the suburbs and avoid the Strip. Generally, our tourists are risk-addicted, drunk and irresponsible. The governor knows that there’s a dichotomy between jobs (interacting with irresponsible people that have no problem spreading disease and going home), and keeping the citizens alive. He’s getting hit from all sides from people who just want money for themselves and don’t care about the larger community at all.

A lot of Vegas is employed by tourism related jobs, so people are hurting. Entitled white male, small business owners are very angry. They care about nothing but money. They don’t care if they’re in a completely out of control, disease plagued city as long as people are getting haircuts or whatever. They’re so irrational, they think people will continue to get haircuts and go to restaurants even if there’s bodies lying the streets, like they’re living on an island separate from all human consequence. They haven’t got the brains to understand that if it gets that bad, they’re going to die too. They don’t care.

There’s also Trumper nurses and medical “professionals” who think Covid isn’t going to affect them for some reason. I went to the hospital last week and a nurse had her mask right at the bottom of her nose. I was scared already to have to go to a hospital in the middle of an epidemic, and the last thing I saw was somebody not adhering to the protocols. But we all know if we see that, that’s a Trumper denying reality. No words need to be said. That person is unreachable, and nobody can watch them 100% of the time. That mask will inevitably come off when nobody is looking, and that person will inevitably expose as many as they can. It’s not just an accident or laziness, it’s on purpose. They want to expose people, to “prove it isn’t real.” It’s like they have an undeterable compulsion to kill people.

There’s a lack of community. It’s every man for himself with these Trumpers. It’s impossible to make them understand they’re the ones dragging it out, they refuse to listen or take any responsibility for the consequences of their actions. It’s like they think they can do absolutely anything they want and there will be zero consequences. There are madmen among us. The difference between you and us is, half your country isn’t sociopaths.

Some of the last lines of the book The Birds, by Daphne du Maurier, seem to apply:

The smaller birds were at the window now. He recognized the light tap-tapping of their beaks and the soft brush of their wings. The hawks ignored the windows. They concentrated their attack upon the door.

Nat listened to the tearing sound of splintering wood and wondered how many million years of memory were stored in those little brains, behind the stabbing beaks, the piercing eyes, now giving them this instinct to destroy mankind with all the deft precision of machines.

Sorry for the post at R276, not applicable to the thread.

dumbdumb

The premise of The Birds, that all the birds in the world were suddenly overcome by some instinct to kill all of humankind at the same time, does seem to apply here.

In every country, there’s been a significant percentage of the population that is vehemently immune to any facts about this disease, or why it’s essential to avoid spreading it. It’s like an irrational compulsion to spread it.

R276 please, please fuck offffff with the "entitled white men" or "old white men" sloganeering racist bullshit.

R276 wrong thread maybe but dang you nailed it! Angry old white guy trumpers in all the stores seemingly trying to spread germs and scare mask wearing folks. I see this alot and I’m in a blue state.

^ does nothing but go to stores looking for "angry white Trumpers"

I see there’s an angry white Trumper in this thread.

It took me a while to see they were all the same people, R280. It’s at the point now where I try to avoid close proximity with these old white guys. I started seeing them at Costco with the mask below their nose. Here, it’s against the law to go into stores without a mask, and Costco has signs all over saying you have to wear a mask inside. They’ve got somebody at the door to make sure you’re wearing one. For months, I’ve seen these old guys go in the store with the mask up, they get out of sight of the door and the mask gets pulled down. Costco made a big deal out of masks here, everyone knows if you want in, you’re going to wear one. It’s not like they can’t go somewhere else.

Over the last month or so I’ve seen signs at the entrance saying your nose has to be covered by the mask. Obviously it’s not just me seeing it. I noticed when I go to a “liberal” store like Sprouts, miraculously everyone wears a mask with no issue. And at Walmart, masks below the nose again. I don’t go there any more unless I have to.

I’m on Nextdoor, and I know my neighbors. There’s a lot of old white retired people near me. Some are Trumpers. The ones throwing a fit about masks and Biden are all old white men. And they’re really belligerent about it. People tell them to shut up.

It’s old white guys at the stores that won’t wear masks, over and over. And they are belligerently glaring at you and daring you to say anything. I’m white myself, I’m not being racist. But these old Trumpers are mad at the world and they won’t listen to anybody because they think they’re better than everybody else and they don’t have to follow the rules. Rules are for other people, not them. Then they’re mad because this isn’t over.

CNN: UK reports two cases of a second Covid-19 variant from South Africa.

R283 Now that you've gifted us a few essays on what pieces of shit white people in your town are, why don't you do the same for the black and brown and Asian and Indian people in your town too? We'll wait.

R285, why don’t you? You know you want to.

No, hon. You're the one posting racist shit all over this thread and others. That's obviously more your thing. I've got work to do. You know what work is don't you?

[quote]The premise of The Birds, that all the birds in the world were suddenly overcome by some instinct to kill all of humankind at the same time, does seem to apply here.

Oh, don't think we haven't been watching and waiting.

R283 Oh right....black people are wearing masks and social distancing. Meanwhile they're dropping like flies. And Trumpers? Funny, it seems like half of Hollywood got Covid. I didn't know they were Trumpers.

Was Nancy a Republican old white man when she broke the rules, was the governor of California or the many other people in power on both sides who broke the rules?

There is zero scientific evidence that this will work, and copious evidence that it is detrimental to public health.

Lockdowns are far more dangerous than coronavirus.

Yashar Ali:

Whenever there are outbreaks in places with stricter measures, anti-lockdown advocates say "lockdowns don't work!"

Nope...it's that people aren't listening.

Just because there are mask orders, doesn't mean people wear masks.

No one can stop people from gathering in their homes.

they close everything...so people have no choice but go to other peoples houses to hang out.

R268: New Yorker here. As you know our hell period was March/April. It's been a bit easier here than the rest of the US. Most people are wearing masks in stores, and while the numbers are too damn high here they're better than the rest of the US.

Among friends, family and neighbors, I know of 11 cases of COVID so far. 7 of them mild, one requiring 2 months in the hospital (still unable to work). One coworker caught (mild) COVID on a commuter train the first week of March. His wife had a bone marrow transplant for lymphoma last year; she was dead a week after he caught it.

I am one of the lucky ones because I can work from home. For that I count my blessings every day.

[quote] they close everything...so people have no choice but go to other peoples houses to hang out.

Yeah, they do have a choice.

For the first time in history, they have zoom, facetime, skype, or the fucking phone.

R294, sorry to hear that about the friend's wife.

If someone told me I had a one and 100 chance of dying every time I left my house, I would still leave my house because I’m not a fucking pussy.

If someone told me I had a one and 100 chance of dying every time I left my house, I would still leave my house because I’m not a fucking pussy.

If someone told me I had a one and 100 chance of dying every time I left my house, I would still leave my house because I’m not a fucking pussy.

[quote]Nope...it's that people aren't listening. Just because there are mask orders, doesn't mean people wear masks. No one can stop people from gathering in their homes.

In fact. Even if we had had a national mask order back in March like some scream about...the result would have been the same.

Mask orders don't work because people simply won't follow them.

R300

Masks, outside a clinical setting, are useless.

A girl I knew in college developed ALS right after she gave birth. She is still alive ten years later, but she's in a large motorized wheelchair with shriveled arms and legs. This woman was on a national team in her sport and had been an Olympic team hopeful (though she didn't make it). An incredible athlete, and very beautiful. It's sort of cruel that ALS seems to attack athletes. (Or there is some statistical propensity there.)

R299 drives a pickup with bumper nuts and likes to kill animals on weekends.

R291 Hi Donald.

Thank heavens you'll be consigned to the history books in a couple of weeks.

[quote]There is zero scientific evidence that this (lockdown) will work

See if you can guess which state instituted a lockdown on Nov. 18.

R297/98/99 = one of those self-identified "completely masculine" men who think Trump has done a bang-up job handling the pandemic.

R305: Yes, Michigan looks good on that graph. but notice the spike after Thanksgiving? Probably due to the idiots that refused to stay home but, instead, traveled and/or socialized inside.

I get most frustrated with the people who complain about lack of masks and social distancing in airports. I’d guess that 95% of them really didn’t need to fly in the first place.

But there they are in the news, still jamming the airports to see grandma for the holidays.

R14, it’s because, Einstein, transmissions are occurring in places where people aren’t wearing masks, like their homes.

I live in a state with a mask mandate. I went running early yesterday -- 3 pm, so businesses were still open. The local barber was working on one customer, the barber had his mask below his chin, the customer no mask at all. I passed two veterinary clinics, I saw four people in one, three in another, none wearing masks. Two body shops -- no masks on the mechanics or the people at the front desks. I could only see three people in the police station, nobody had a mask. Two adults in a day care were wearing masks, none of the kids.

Our cases have been declining for the past three weeks, but I just think how much lower they would be if people actually did what they're supposed to.

[quote] If someone told me I had a one and 100 chance of dying every time I left my house

That someone would sound like a moron, just like you!

What China has done to eradicate COVID might seem like a template worth following, but no western democracy would get away with taking the draconian measures China implemented.

Everyone was tested, regardless of symptoms. The second people tested positive, they were wisked away to government run facilities (no goodbyes, no going home to pack a bag). Everyone who lived in the same household, or even came into contact wirh someone who tested positive was forced to quarantine for 2 weeks. No leaving the house for essentials only or taking a walk in the park. Lastly, entire cities were placed in lockdowns where all businesses were shut and all movement outside the home was restricted.

That shit simply wouldn't fly in most countries, where there has been an effort to balance public health and Constitutional rights. And to this day I strongly believe Trump would've abused emergency powers expliciltly and implicitly granted during the early days of COVID, so it is best his wings remained clipped.

R310, why don't you tell us which state you live in? None of us know you.

[quote] The second people tested positive, they were wisked away to government run facilities (no goodbyes, no going home to pack a bag).

I know everyone is going to focus on the getting whisked away without being able to say goodbye, but the most important part is actually the early treatment. We live in a disgraceful country where (even before COVID), people with dangerous conditions would park outside emergency rooms to see if they got "really bad" because hospital care is ruinously expensive. Most people in this country are financially ruined, sued, financially ruined by any emergency hospital stay unless they are old enough to be covered by medicare.

Americans perilously sick with Covid are sent home to their deaths routinely. FFS, a black doctor --a doctor herself!!--just died with Covid because her evil attending wouldn't treat her.

Are we even a first world country?

gee, they whisk you away into govt facilities...how do you know if your loved one is OK? would you know if they just let your kin lie in a coma, they harvest viable organs, and let your kin die? They probably send the body straight to be cremated so you won't know a fucking thing.

Wuhan also had a crematorium going 24/7 for 2 months. People were whisked away to essentially non-care covid facilities where they would go to die. People were welded in their apartment buildings. They burned their currency b/c it had the virus all over it. Also, we cannot rely on China's reporting. They only had something like 36,000 deaths the last time I looked. which was a while ago, but I haven't heard of many outbreaks.

Sounds like the mink in Denmark got treated better.

Maybe we should discuss the Australia or New Zealand approach.

Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, and South Korea have all handled the pandemic really well without resorting to the Chinese government's measures. Of course the Western media only ever focus on how well Germany or Italy or New Zealand are coping.

Another new variant of COVID has been discovered, this time in Nigeria. It's different than the London and South Africa strain. I can't help but wonder if this is the beginning of an ELE (Extinction Level Event).

R319, I have been wondering this for a while, too. Apparently, this is just the beginning of new viruses that are emerging from animals that used to be deep in the forests, but are now being encroached upon because of deforestation OR fucking disgusting wet markets.

To be fair, R319, there have been hundreds of COVID viral mutations in the past year. UK has been tracking most of them, most of which are minor variations. Scientists think that it'll take COVID at least another year to mutate to the point where they have to change the vaccine.

Not being pollyannish about this mess, but trying not to be alarmist as well. Viruses mutate. It's what they do to survive.

Which means, r14, that unless people wear masks in their own house, asking people to wear masks in public makes almost little difference.

[quote] Mask orders don't work because people simply won't follow them.

Yep. Just like people simply don't follow the law when it comes to murder and rape etc. You can control yourself but not everyone else.

[quote]Scientists think that it'll take COVID at least another year to mutate to the point where they have to change the vaccine.

Unless someone is tinkering with it deliberately (like they perhaps did to create it in the first place).

[quote] If someone told me I had a one and 100 chance of dying every time I left my house, I would still leave my house because I’m not a fucking pussy.

If I gave you a bowl with 100 M&Ms in it, but one was deadly poisonous, would you eat some anyway?

[quote] (like they perhaps did to create it in the first place).

This was not “created.” Coronaviruses have been around for decades. This particular one has not.

Further, every scientist who has studied this in the WORLD, not just the US but everywhere, all say the same thing: it was not manufactured anywhere.

Is that you Don Jr.?

Oh good lord! I’m glad I said M&Ms then.

Maybe it will just be an extinction event for Americans who think risk assessment and mitigation is for "pussies."

Has there ever been a better illustration of pride going before a fall?

How are we at an extinction event when the virus kills like less than 1% of the population? This shit isn't Captain Tripps.

Linda?

According to this, the CFR (case fatality rate) for December 21 was 1.8% in the U.S.

That is 18 times what you suggest, R330.

They give some interesting background information about how the case rate is determined. Basically, it’s documented cases to documented deaths, which means it’s an underestimate. The rate in Wuhan was 5.8%, in Italy it was as high as 7.7% in February or March. They say the Spanish flu probably wasn’t very well documented, since a lot of people died at home, it’s probably much higher than we know.

For people with a pre-existing cardiovascular disease that get Covid, the CFR is 10.5%.

Diabetes - 7.3%

Chronic respiratory disease -6.3%

Hypertension - 6%

Cancer 5.6%

Covid is related to MERS-Cov, which had a case fatality rate as high as 34%. SARS-Cov was about 10%. If MERS-Cov ever comes back in a big way, you may get your Captain Tripps, R330. By the time you get to anywhere near that mortality rate, all the hospitals are full and it’s every man for himself. That’s why it’s so important to try to stop mutations by stopping spreading of the disease. The next mutation could be a lot worse.

well, it's been very clear for a very long time. The planet is dying....global warming, using up natural resources, major pollution of everything etc...too many fucking humans on earth. This is mother nature's answer. Kill off the humans.

Well I can't argue about global warming being a bummer. That could cause our extinction.

My vague understanding of SARS was that it had a really highly mortality rate, but wasn't as infectious.

Of course if COVID and SARS find a way to make a baby we're all fucked; but hopefully the technology that produced the COVID vaccine so quickly could be employed to fight any nasty future bugs.

We now have the technology to produce vaccines much more rapidly than before. That might come in handy someday.

Brits are you worrying about the brexit food shortage possibility? I feel badly for the lorry drivers stranded too.

Over 400,000 COVID deaths are predicted for sometime in January in the US.

Already 403 990 deaths in the EU + UK.

There are predictions the global toll may be closer to 3 million.

R314

I’m sure her extra 50Kg of fat had NOTHING to do with it.

You people are extra.

Whine in the corner while the shutdowns kill millions more than the virus.

Idiots.

Be sure to include mortality from suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, poverty from lost wages, disrupted education, and delayed medical treatment in your statistics.

You people are crazy. The destruction you’re perpetuating with your ignorance will cause hardships for a decade.

Have you people ever heard of second order effects?

[quote]Whine in the corner while the shutdowns kill millions more than the virus.

Trumpers manage to simultaneously believe that a) there are no excess deaths and covid is just this this year’s flu, and b) “millions” are dying from not being able to eat inside restaurants.

R342, I haven’t eaten inside a restaurant since February. I am one of the very few who have somehow survived this ordeal. Almost all the others are dead, it’s just me left. And I’m all alone now. The others gave up long ago.

R342

Not at all.

Deaths are being pulled forward.

Look at the data, twat.

Perfect R343

If this disease was dangerous for people under the age of 60 years old, we might have a problem.

The fact that 99.96% of people under 50 years old survive means that the eldergays are losing their marbles.

Younger people may survive but with damaged immune systems, then we can only guess what long-term health effects they will be burdened with for the rest of their lives.

It’s worth it if they get to eat inside an Applebee’s, R346!

Link, R346?

Real data, not anecdotal bullshit.

Lemme get this straight. Untold millions have died from *not* getting sit-down service at Cheesecake Factory?

R345, actually, I read recently that’s misleading. The real high death rates aren’t based on age alone, they’re based on pre-existing conditions. The worst one is heart issues, the death rate for that is 10.5%. That’s against 1.8% for the general population. They

What happened was in early research, people were trying to figure out what were the higher risk factors. But they didn’t know what they were, so they sorted data different ways, trying to find the common factor. For example, they sorted by age and assumed age was the highest risk. But it wasn’t, pre-existing conditions that become more common with age are what raises the risk level. People who are a hundred years old but healthy have fought this off. But if you have pre-existing heart issues or diabetes, bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. Even worse than cancer.

I don’t know what the data is on young, obese, diabetic people with other underlying health issues. I don’t think youth alone will decrease the risk.

I think it's just terrible that people are putting off regular check ups and other screenings for fear of getting it at the medical facility.

If you think that's scary, check the skyrocketing of risk for pregnant women with Covid.

I've been watching Dr. John Cambell's podcasts since COVID started. He seems to be concerned, to put it mildly, by the number of people who are traveling during the holidays. He also mentions the South African variant at 10 minutes into the video, with a reference to younger previously healthy people who are now becoming sick.

All the pathetic lockins are a joke. Ohhh there are no suicides, woman killed by their husbands are a necessary death, kids getting lung cancer from their parents smoking is fine. The damage done by all of this is horrific and watching as people happily give away their freedoms is terrifying, it's like watching people scream at anyone who didn't support Bush after 9/11 as the Republicans brought in the patriot act.

r270 What about the significant possibly long term health damage caused by long covid in people of all ages?

[quote] woman killed by their husbands

Just the one, dear?

R356 Probably not, but easier to ignore the larger point, isn't it?

It is nice to hear that the Isle of Man (pop. 84,000) has been able to control, if not eliminate the virus since June. That asshole on the jet-ski should have been dealt with with a bullet through the fucking brain, and not 4 days in jail. They have a natural border and a nice homogeneous population that is easy to control, thus have done on a micro scale what NZ and parts of Australia have been doing for most of the year. If only Wales had been able to completely lock its borders down...

R358

[quote] That asshole on the jet-ski should have been dealt with with a bullet through the fucking brain,

And yet you wonder why right wing people want psychotic assholes like you removed from society.

Do you really want Civil War 2.0?

All it takes a "Romeo" like the one the jet skied across the border in the Isle of Man. No surprises the press wants to turn him into a hero! An idiot who thinks his rights are above those of significant number of people who have managed a most difficult feat and create a fragile sanctuary that is now free of the virus. Luckily that idiot was not COVID positive, but screw him. You want to put the lives of thousands at jeopardy? Cross the line suffer the consequences.

The biggest hospital in Wales' capital city is not coping.

All that hospital needs is a goodwill visit from Wills and Kate! That ought to cure what ails them!

All hospitals in the UK are being told to empty the beds for a surge in covid cases, January is going to be really bad.

[quote] All hospitals in the UK are being told to empty the beds

If there’s a run on succinylcholine we’ll know why.

Shit. I hate to see this happening to the UK.

It's going to happen in the U.S. too, R365 -- at least, large parts of it.

I actually don't give a fuck that this is happening in the UK. Even my so-called cleverest friends have been out and about like it's everyone else's problem and won't affect them. Poms are just as arrogant as 'Muricans - maybe they might learn something from this.

[quote]And yet you wonder why right wing people want psychotic assholes like you removed from society.

Says the wingnut psychotic calling on the same thread for shooting politicians who enforce public health regulations.

Why are public calls for violence only okay for "patriots" befouled with Trump-stink?

R366, I know, but I loathe at least 70 million Americans.

Once the healthcare workers are vaccinated, I can focus all my empathy on the UK.

I love London and the UK! Kick ass, sweeties!

[quote] Says the wingnut psychotic calling on the same thread for shooting politicians who enforce public health regulations.

The politicians that are in forcing lockdowns should be permanently removed from polite society. They have destroyed millions of lives because of a disease that kills really old people. You don’t seem to understand the anger bubbling. I have a lot to lose. There are millions of people who have nothing to lose because the government radically overreacted.

Can you not understand that simple fact?

I’m fortunate- I live in a rural area outside of a medium sized city, with farms all around, so lockdowns never happened and everyone ignored the bullshit. Some Karen yelled at me once, and I told her that the stupid cloth mask she was wearing was simple security theater, since it protected no one from anything. She called the manager over and he laughed at her.

Please show me one study that shows that masks work outside of a clinical setting.

Damn Siri.

Enforcing not in forcing

R371, you should encourage your superiors at the Kremlin to add English grammar instruction to your training.

[quote] They have destroyed millions of lives because of a disease that kills really old people. You don’t seem to understand the anger bubbling. I have a lot to lose. There are millions of people who have nothing to lose because the government radically overreacted.

Are you fucking retarded? You do understand that the hospitals that are currently overflowing capacity are not just full of “really old people”? And that as a result many young people won’t get treated for cancer, heart conditions, organ transplants, trauma/car accident injuries?

If you don’t believe that then why don’t you test it by drinking bleach then trying to get assistance at your local hospital’s emergency room?

R371 is indeed fucking retarded.

Had him on block from one of his other retarded responses a few months ago.

It's so bad, the soccer players have it...

I read that 2 of the newcastle players have long vivid, still suffering symptoms months later. They can only manage a walk for 30 min and they want to go back to bed. These players are young and fit...very scary.

[quote]Are you fucking retarded? You do understand that the hospitals that are currently overflowing capacity are not just full of “really old people”? And that as a result many young people won’t get treated for cancer, heart conditions, organ transplants, trauma/car accident injuries?

Cancer treatments have been delayed, monitoring of ongoing conditions and transplants have been stripped back. Quite simply, if you have a heart condition right now, hospital is the last place you want to be going.

Treatment for trauma and accidents is continuing as normal, but there is naturally a risk that anyone going into hospital is at high risk of contracting the virus. Plus ambulance services are restricted by the number of Covid call outs so if you are involved in a car accident you'll be waiting longer for someone to come and get to you. That's why Wales called in the Army to help out.

A friend lives in europe and has MS, her treatment was delayed for 1 year.

A relative of mine had a cancers lump removed last year and now has found another lump, she will have to wait until the middle of January to even get it checked out. The long-term damage of these lockdowns are being ignored because governments the western world made a decision in March, and are terrified off looking weak by changing course.

So your argument is that "lockdowns" -- which haven't locked down medical services -- are forcing people to wait longer for medical appointments?

And that the total breakdown of the medical system that would have occurred without "lockdowns" wouldn't have delayed medical appointments?

R379, so you’re blaming government officials and doctors because there’s Covid patients taking up all the room in the hospitals, and you think if there were no lockdowns and everyone associated freely, no one would get a contagious airborne disease that is spread by people associating freely?

Or you’re mad because the April lockdown stopped a lot of people from getting it in April, and instead they’re getting it now, and if they died in April the hospitals would be emptier now?

It’s the same argument I see everywhere with Covid deniers. “I blame the government because the virus is contagious. My life is upset because the virus is contagious. How dare the government try to stop the contagious virus?” WTF? What kind of logic is that?

The long term damage isn't being "ignored." What is wrong with you? Don't you see that are healthcare workers are dealing with a tsunami of patients--not to mention that many healthcare workers are sick or dead?

Bleat, sheep.

2021 will be a wake up call.

The economic devastation will be far deadlier than Covid.

The economy will come roaring back once herd immunity is achieved.

R385 Doing nothing about the epidemic and letting people fend for themselves would devastate the economy and cause social chaos at the same time. At least this way, vaccination can proceed in an orderly fashion and the economy can recover afterward.

R386

That’s like saying “we can stop your heart for ten minutes and then resuscitate you without any damage to your brain.”

Second. Order. Effects. You fucking moron.

R386

You do realize that 99.96% of people infected survive? The vast majority of deaths have been confined to nursing homes. A large number of deaths attributed to Covid have been shown to be from cancer or automobile crashes. You are panicking because of a really bad flu.

Wake the fuck up.

R388 You sociopaths can't seem to understand there are more than just some old dead people you don't give a shit about involved. There are logistic problems with healthcare system capacity and once that is overwhelmed, all people who need care are affected not just the ones infected by this virus.

Covidiots should be forced to dig mass graves at gunpoint.

R388, no, people that died in car crashes are not Covid deaths. What’s happening is a bunch of cynical liars like Alex Jones have been making up stories with no basis in fact whatsoever and Fox and OANN pick it up and run with it because those networks make money off feeding conspiracy theories to the gullible.

Here’s some other lies: “doctors get paid extra for pretending people died of Covid.” There is no mechanism to give doctors extra pay to lie, and they would lose their license to practice if they got caught lying. Also, doctors are rich and don’t need to risk their licenses every time they go to work. Nothing about this makes any sense.

“Masks don’t work and there’s no possible way to prove they do. “ Over and over, it’s been shown that in mask-wearing counties, there are less Covid cases than in other counties where masks aren’t mandatory. Even in the same state.

“Only very old people die of Covid, everyone else barely knows they’re sick.” Lie. Even if it were true, so what? Nobody voted to live in Logan’s Run.

The worst one: “If we opened everything up, the economy would recover immediately and no one would get sick.” This is not based on any facts or reality and shows a deep seated aversion to reality.

Not just old people: Louisiana Congressman-elect Luke Letlow dies of COVID-19 complications, aged 41! He leaves behind a wife and two young kid.

Yes, just saw that in cnn, he had NO underlying issues, died of heart attack.

R388, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE GOING INTO THE HOSPITAL CAN NOT PAY FOR IT!!!!!!

WHO IS PAYING FOR THE HOSPITALIZATIONS OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO "SURVIVE" COVID?

WHO? YOU?

[quote]The economy will come roaring back once herd immunity is achieved.

Yes, I've seen 'The Roaring Twenties' revived as a possibility for next summer, when all those earning and saving enjoy loud public expensive fun. Maybe it's useful for the stupid to have such a big dangling plastic carrot to reach for.

R391

Just because it should be read again.

R395, meanwhile, in reality, people are jobless and may soon be homeless. And if they’re thrown in the street in February, they’re not going to miraculously get a good job in March when they’re homeless and applying with no address. They’ll be applying against many other people that are equally desperate. And their kids will get PTSD from losing their home and living in a car.

What’s barely discussed is that the vaccination may not actually stop people from getting Covid, they’ll just get a milder, less risky case. Even if it’s only like a cold, they could give it to an unvaccinated person and kill them. Until everyone is vaccinated, there’s still a risk. Especially since now there’s a much more contagious version. The “herd immunity” here isn’t going to mean nobody gets Covid, it may mean that with the vaccine, everybody continues to get Covid, but now it’s like a mild cold. But there will still be people that are high risk and it’s dangerous for them to get it. I can’t see how we get away from mask wearing until everyone is vaccinated, and maybe in winter we’ll have to wear them anyway. The only thing that really stops this is if there is no more Covid floating around for people to get. Vaccines alone may not be enough. At some point people will have to have some self control.

And what will people do next year? Will they refuse to vaccine their kids because they’re anti-vaxxers? We’ve got to do something about all these superstitious, irrational people because they're ruining it for everybody.

If you are healthy, covid is not a threat. We can come out of this economic ally stronger if the old and Ill succumb to covid. Read about the plague, it killed 60 percent and resulted in an improved economy.

If you are healthy, covid is not a threat. We can come out of this economic ally stronger if the old and Ill succumb to covid. Read about the plague, it killed 60 percent and resulted in an improved economy.

Just fuck off R399 you slobbering window licking cuntflap.

[quote]Will they refuse to vaccine their kids because they’re anti-vaxxers?

It's to be hoped that public figures of varying appeal step forward to show the way. Likewise setting out reasons to show anti-vac contrarians how they're retarding progress away from the virus. But of course there'll always be flat-earthers. Speaking of which.

[quote]If you are healthy, covid is not a threat. We can come out of this economic ally stronger if the old and Ill succumb to covid. Read about the plague, it killed 60 percent and resulted in an improved economy.

From the desk of the Mickey Mouse Professor Emeritus of Economic Epidemiology at Trump University. I understand the Nobel Committee have taken a keen interest.

The UK has allowed business travel to continue unchecked all year. Airports are unmonitored and if you can show a recent negative covid test, you can still fly anywhere. Boris should shut the airports down, but he won't.

[QUOTE] , THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE GOING INTO THE HOSPITAL CAN NOT PAY FOR IT!!!!!!WHO IS PAYING FOR THE HOSPITALIZATIONS OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO "SURVIVE" COVID?

This thread is about the UK, Joey Deacon. The NHS is free. No hospital bills for us.

Another 50k new cases today and a record breaking 981 deaths. 23m people are now in Tier 4 and the schools are remaining closed to all but exam classes in Years 11 and 13 until 18 January.

Deaths in Germany yesterday: 1,244.

That would be equivalent to about 5,000 deaths in the US.

'Deaths in Germany yesterday: 1,244'

Horrendous. And the Hitlers handled the first wave so well, better than anywhere else in Europe.

Annus Horribilis 2.0!

[quote] This thread is about the UK, Joey Deacon. The NHS is free. No hospital bills for us.

Hey, Americans,

We could have this, too.

[quote]You do realize that 99.96% of people infected survive?

So fucking what? Our hospitals are overwhelmed. Our health care workers are exhausted. Every week it seems we learn about a new type of long-term damage suffered by survivors.

It didn't have to be this way. We could have produced sufficient PPE. We could have enforced mask wearing. Instead we've had sociopathic politicians hosting superspreader events and ridiculing people who take steps to minimize the spread. We have bleating covidiots who have the nerve to call others sheep.

Look at New Zealand, which has a competent leader who cares about her people. We could have had something similar, but know, we have idiots bleating about their "freedoms" spreading disease like the sociopaths they are.

In the meantime, here in LA this is happening. Trumper attempting to bust into a store to protest wearing masks. Who fucking raised these assholes?

[quote]Look at New Zealand

Yeah, just look at it. An island way out in the Pacific Ocean with a population of less than 5 million. With an economy ranking 51st in the world. With their largest airport not even ranking in the top 100 .

[quote]You do realize that 99.96% of people infected survive?

"Hey, look at all the Jews the Nazis *didn't* gas!"

[quote]"Hey, look at all the Jews the Nazis *didn't* gas!"

I know, right? I mean, what WERE the jews complaining about?! Most of them survived.

What's a little genocide between friends?

P.S: I'm with you, R412.

It's easy to socially distance when your nearest neighbour for five miles is a sheep. London alone has twice the population of New Zealand

[quote]It's easy to socially distance when your nearest neighbour for five miles is a sheep.

And yet the Dakotas had the highest rate of infection in the world for a while. It's not the geography, it's the will of the people to take the virus seriously.

[quote] We could have had something similar, but know, we have idiots bleating about their "freedoms"

Psst.

R403 - The NHS is not FREE. We pay into it weekly and annually. It is affordable and accessible. But it is not free. Everybody pays, you just don’t pay at the point of service.

R418. My brother has been unemployed for ten years and pays zero tax. He still gets full NHS care. Please tell me how he pays yearly and weekly.

[quote]It's easy to socially distance when your nearest neighbour for five miles is a sheep.

Go on....

[quote] My brother has been unemployed for ten years

In ten years he couldn’t find a job?

Catherine says he’s holding out for a management position.

R419 only if his income is below the personal allowance threshold. Even if that income is unemployment benefits. But you already knew that didn’t you?

R419 only if his income is below the personal allowance threshold. Even if that income is unemployment benefits. But you already knew that didn’t you?

[quote] In ten years he couldn’t find a job?

Maybe he's holding out for a management position.

Damn it, R422 beat me to it!

Viral spread is controlled by two factors:

a. the density of the population; and

b. the density of the population.

But it’s the same words, r427.

That's the great thing about the feared socialism of the NHS, it benefits everyone.

R429

Tell that to the citizens of the UK that have been denied cancer treatment, life-saving surgeries, dialysis, etc.

You people are freaking psychopaths.

Lockdowns don’t work. You should look at real science, not bullshit propaganda.

The NHS always under strain is now reaching breaking point. This is as many areas of the UK are now facing tier 5 restrictions.

The only lockdown that worked and got deaths down to single figures per day was the one which closed everything except essential shops. All schools, colleges etc were closed from March-September. Primary schools went back in June. As soon as secondary schools and colleges went back in mid September the case loads/deaths started to increase again. Non essential shops were also open then.

Hey r415, you ignorant slut, New Zealand is 87% urban compared with 84% of the UK.

The reason NZ has been successful because it has done everything that most other western countries haven't.

We spent 6 fucking weeks locked in our houses. NO schools, shops, bars, events open (except for chemists and supermarkets and these were highly regulated). No going to the beach or a bush walk. We all stayed in our bubbles. No mixing AT ALL.

Guess what? We went from 100s of cases to none.

So fuck you and your 'NZ is an island bullshit.' Yeah, it helped - but guess what? Every day we have cases at the border from all over the world that are now in quarantine. It would've run rampant through our country had we not sacrificed those 6 weeks.

And that is better than nothing.

New Zealand is an insignificant country on an island in the middle of nowhere with a tiny population.

Sure thing r434, I never claimed NZ is any sort of powerhouse. Countries with large populations have controlled the virus too (see: China, Australia, Taiwan, S Korea).

But we've been covid-free for months, and I imagine that you're still stuck in your covid-ravaged shithole....so basically, I win. :)

*Hugs and kisses* (we can do that here).

NZ is a relatively isolated nation that depends on exports from advanced economies.

NZ will be nice bellwether for 2021. It depends on the West, and will struggle if globalization shrinks.

R435 China? Korea? Taiwan?

Are you really that stupid?

Since when are the French, the Spanish, the Italians etc ANYTHING like the Chinese or Koreans or whatever?

There are HUGE cultural differences. Different ideas about freedom, about the power of the government. A different relationship to authority. A completely different history. A completely different race of people. We are not like them, nor do we want to be.

And still, you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that a place like the European Union is a union of 27 different countries. 27 countries sharing borders, all with different governments and cultures.

God, you are provincial.

"stuck in your covid-ravaged shithole"? A shit hole dear, is a country like China.

R437

2021 is gonna be like a bitchslap for these people.

You can’t just shut down 2/3 of the economy for nine months and expect that everything goes back to normal on January 21 2021!

It’s scary- they don’t even see the problem!

r438 you fucking tool, there wouldn't be a need for 9 month shut down if your leaders had dealt with the problem in the beginning. But no, instead of locking down hard for 6 weeks your leaders let it run through the population thereby fucking the economy anyway.

r437 Since when are NZ or Australia anything like China or Taiwan either? The only thing we have in common with those countries is WE FUCKING DEALT WITH THE VIRUS INSTEAD OF BURYING OUR HEADS IN THE SAND. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You tried nothing, and are wondering why it didn't work lol. And I've lived in both China AND the States - and I know where I'd rather be right now (guess what? It's not the States).

You're the provincial one - I imagine you have even left your pathetic shit hole country.

You can bitch and moan and attack me all you want - but I'm living life as normal in a covid-free country where everything is back to normal, and you're fucked. Soz, lol

R439

That virus with a 99.96% survival rate? Do you really think surviving is the same thing as thriving?

Do you think that you can thrive when people can’t produce the shit you consume? You are a fucking idiot.

2021 will treat you like one.

[quote]But no, instead of locking down hard for 6 weeks your leaders let it run through the population thereby fucking the economy anyway.

Dear Lord the stupidity.

Let it run through the population? The virus was circulating unbeknownst to anyone in Nov of 2019. Combine that with busy airports, multiple borders and the world's busiest economies and you had the virus get a grip on our countries months before talk about lockdowns by anyone.

And there WAS a hard lockdown in Italy, France Spain....yet their death counts are even higher than the US.

Yesterday Germany had another day of over 1,000 deaths.

Congratulations to the people of the UK on being free of the EU.

R441

Arguing is pointless.

They BELIEVE in masks, and think that the 354K that have died of the virus in the USA is abnormal.

Guess what r441, the virus was running rampant through NZ too, which is why we locked down.

Italy, France, and Spain did not lock down hard, they didn't contact trace, they didn't close their borders properly or quarantine. So what the fuck do you think would happen? It's like the UK changing the closing time of pubs to 6pm instead of 10pm. Or keeping schools open for exams. if you lock down, you have to commit. If you commit, and do it properly the virus is manageable as successful countries (consisting of various cultures, sizes and populations) have proven. And you have to stay on top of it, not do something half-heartedly.

An example of this is Victoria, which went from 700 cases a day to 0. Does it work perfectly? No - but it's a hell of a lot better than hospitals being overrun, uncertainty, and death for the next months or even years.

r443, you seem to be obsessed with masks. Guess what? I've never worn one over here. I've never had too.

But I'm sure you'll come back with some snarky remark about how things that have worked in other countries have been tried (they haven't) in your country, or they wouldn't work for whatever reason.

For those posters who are surrounded by covidiots, I really feel for you and I hope things get better wherever you are.

Population:

EU: 447 million

US: 330 million

NZ: 5 million

New Zealand is so insignificant it has this problem:

Yes, who cares about New Zealand? Apples to oranges. Nobody gives a fuck. This is about London on lockdown.

It is heartening to look at the handful of countries that got a grip on this virus - Taiwan, Vietnam, NZ, among others. Germany seemed to be doing everything right, but I've heard from EU friends that they based their plan on testing and tracing over mask wearing, which is what fucked them over this fall. And they're dealing with their own Q-inspired covidiots now.

Johnson has sought to keep economic activity his priority, not controlling the virus. Weak and confused public messaging, defiance of lockdown measures by public figures, mutation of the virus, an unfit track and trace service have all contributed to the spread of the virus. Our public health hospitals will shortly become overwhelmed. The vaccination program is too slow and the efficacy of it is being compromised by the government imposing a 12 week time frame between 1st & 2nd dose, in order to Vaccinate as many as possible now, due to this new strain.

The virus transmits from person to person. People need break that transmission chain. They need to be given all the assistance to do that. This is a peacetime national effort, that requires all the resources of wartime.

Fuck off, arsehole shithead at r442.

R448 Germany had mask mandates already in April.

Piers Corbyn, brother of fellow crank Jeremy Corbyn, has announced he's standing for Mayor of London in May on an anti-lockdown/Covid is a hoax platform with the campaigning hashtag #letlondonlive

He led a protest last night which started at the London Eye and moved on to St Thomas' Hospital. Staff leaving their shifts had make their way through protesters without masks shouting Covid is a hoax.

[quote]Staff leaving their shifts had make their way through protesters without masks shouting Covid is a hoax.

Because overworked exhausted health care professionals knowing worse is to come need just that at the end of their day.

I wish they would’ve kicked each one of those “protesters” right in the cunt bone on their way out.

Gullible sheep.

Gullible sheep.

r371 Stop solely focusing on and fetishing the number of deaths and focus also on long covid and long term health damage to people of all ages.

r379 Adhere to social distancing then and get everyone else too and then the NHS won't become so overwhelmed with covid infections that it can't treat others. You are blaming the lockdown rather than the virus spreading for the delay in treatments. You think hospitals will stop being overwhelmed if the lockdown stopped? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

371 is a stupid fuck who is posting this same "show me a study where masks work outside of clinical trials" on every Covid thread. People have linked you to NUMEROUS studies that show they do work so shut the fuck up with your dumb mouth.

We are wearing masks because they cut down on transmission by 70%. Look it up yourself you dumb cunt. And let's just say we all stop wearing them and Covid is allowed to spread unchecked. Right now our hospitals are full and on the brink of breaking even WITH people wearing masks. Oxygen supplies are almost gone in LA. Imagine being someone who needs that for Emphysema or other lung issues and not being able to get it because too many people are sick with Covid. The issue isn't that "most of us will survive it if we get it." Of course we know that. The issue is that for the people who are borderline, who might die if they don't get treatment, they will not be able to even get into a hospital now or in the future and people who would normally survive with minimal treatment, will now die. So fuck off you stupid cunt.

Look at headlines from the UK over the last decade.

Every year NHS reaches 99% capacity.

Right r460. And those are in the years without a fucking pandemic. Now add the pandemic numbers onto that and you have a complete collapse.

Has there been a complete collapse of the NHS?

There will be, r462. And it will be in about 3 weeks when all the idiots who went maskless to Christmas gatherings and New Years gatherings start showing up crying about their Covid.

And just like that, r459 gets my first marriage proposal of 2021.

Fair warning, I ask a lot during the year, but still.

r462 Stop being disingenuous with your stupid questions. Look at the news some hospitals in London are at 117% capacity.

The thing about oxygen supplies being almost gone must be absolutely terrifying if you have emphysema or COPD and have to have oxygen to live. I knew a woman with two older relatives that used oxygen all the time. It’s not uncommon for older people in poor health.

The only argument the anti-maskers seem to have about this is “they’re old, let them die. We’re better off without them, they’re just holding us back.”

I’d like to know what kind of relationships they have with their own family members that it’s so easy for them to write off other people’s parents and grandparents. Were they all raised by child molesters and child abusers? What gives them the right to decide whose life is worth saving? I didn’t have such a great relationship with my family, it doesn’t mean I’m sitting here happily cheering on the deaths of every old person as “cleaning house and ridding ourselves of all these useless, worthless burdens.” . But then I’m not a psychopath.

I accept, r464! Although I'm a lesbian so I guess it would be weird. ;)

That's the thing that gets me, too, r466. Who raised these people? Why are some folks born with zero empathy?

One hard lesson COVID has unfortunately taught us is just how many psychotic assholes where are out there.

A lesson I don't plan to forget.

Don't expect empathy from us, R468. This is a war - haven't you noticed? The weapon of choice is disinformation and the goal is the collapse of the West. I think we're going pretty well with that, don't you?

[quote]The weapon of choice is disinformation and the goal is the collapse of the West. I think we're going pretty well with that, don't you?—Russian trolls.

China sends out a virus that puts the world on its knees... but yeah, the REAL threat to the West is imaginary Russian trolls on DataLounge. Good Lord.

I thought that maybe in the beginning this would bring us together with a common purpose, but it's divided us even more. As I am seeing more and more people saying "fuck it", it's starting to get me angry for all the staying home, postponing everything to see all my friends living life, taking vacations. I was hoping that this wouldn't be all for nothing, that we would gain something of value from this. It's shown the opposite.

CUNTS!!!!!

Xi is a student of Sun Tzu.

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.”

Look at New Years pictures in Wuhan.

So basically there was a kernel of truth to the idea that we’d have to learn to live with this virus. It isn’t getting better and to be blunt, extremely few countries have been able to reduce infections to zero. But at the same time, the reality is the majority of people who are infected recover. So it is both political to impose harsh restrictions as well as to push for relaxed restrictions. So no clear solutions.

Shield the elderly, vaccinate health care workers and NHS staff, those with underlying health issues, then vaccinate the school kids and teachers, open up again and then start vaccinating the elderly. It's as simple as that.

The vaccines can't be used on those under 16/18 (depending on the vaccine) r476, so you can't vaccinate the school kids.

R477 The new oxford one does.

According to this article by the BBC, r478, the final group that will be given the Oxford vaccine are those "aged 16 to 49", hence it won't be given to those under 16. I've never read anywhere that this vaccine can be given to kids, everything I've seen suggests that the vaccines developed and being developed thus far are not being trialled on under-16s.

How long before the government give up? It seems more and more people are breaking the rules and police are arresting more people for it. The working class arent being supported and need to work, with schools staying closed it stops them from being able to work or they risk leaving the kid home alone.

[quote] so you’re blaming government officials and doctors because there’s Covid patients taking up all the room in the hospitals

I'm not the person you're screeching at but I spent six hours in a hospital last week due to my partner having a heart-related medical issue and the building was a ghost town. I was bored shitless after hour four and went for a walk to find something to read and ended up getting lost. Not a soul to be seen or a peep to be heard until I somehow found my way back to my partner's room outside of which there was a handful of nurses and one doctor calmly taking care of three patients (the other two patients had injured themselves including one old drunk guy who's broken his ribs and a woman who had banged up her leg) in between laughing at jokes. The hospital was the exact opposite of packed and none of the employees were run off their feet. Don't believe the bullshit that the hospitals are over-run and you can't be seen.

Yeah, nurses are so run off their feet they're spending their shifts rehearsing and performing dance numbers for Tik Tok videos. Notice the empty corridors and rooms in the backgrounds.

[quote]I'm not the person you're screeching at but I spent six hours in a hospital last week due to my partner having a heart-related medical issue and the building was a ghost town. I was bored shitless after hour four and went for a walk to find something to read and ended up getting lost. Not a soul to be seen or a peep to be heard until I somehow found my way back to my partner's room outside of which there was a handful of nurses and one doctor calmly taking care of three patients (the other two patients had injured themselves including one old drunk guy who's broken his ribs and a woman who had banged up her leg) in between laughing at jokes. The hospital was the exact opposite of packed and none of the employees were run off their feet. Don't believe the bullshit that the hospitals are over-run and you can't be seen.

British NHS employee here, it sounds like the hospital you went to is being well run if you're able to wander around and don't go near any zones where highly infections patients are being treated. Most hospitals will have outpatient and emergency areas situated well away from inpatient areas as part of an improved patient flow design. The hospital I work in has security guards to stop visitors/relatives accessing areas where Covid patients are being cared for, another sensible measure.

Most people understand that hospitals don't ONLY treat patients who need to be nursed in a hospital - the overwhelming majority of patients who visit need outpatient appointments, follow ups, diagnostics and don't need to use a bed, so with those services cut back it will be very quiet.

I don’t know but I live near Chelsea Westminster Hospital and there is an ambulance going by last night and today like every 15-20 minutes. It’s normally never that crazy, Definitely sad.

R483 I’m in The borough of Redbridge and have noticed many, many more ambulances going by this last week. It’s frightening.

There is a massive Government recruitment drive underway for NHS frontline workers, unlike anything seen in recent times. The Government is committed to delivering 50,000 more nurses by the end of this Parliament. The number of doctors also rose, with an additional 6,030 to a record 122,446.

The Government has already recruited almost 6,000 extra police officers, putting them on track to hit the target of an additional 20,000 police officers this Parliament. A new TV advertising drive for police officers will launch on Tuesday (5th January) across England and Wales. The campaign aims to showcase the difference that police officers make to their communities – including those from underrepresented groups.

The Ministry of Justice also plans to recruit a further 3,200 prison officers and 1,500 probation officers during the financial year 2021/22.

[quote] How long before the government give up?

In the United States, our government gave up round ‘bout May.

Yashar Ali:

Everyone in England must stay at home except for permitted reasons during a new coronavirus lockdown beginning at midnight, Boris Johnson has announced.

All schools/colleges will close to most pupils and switch to remote learning until mid-February.

The news reports that the new strain of the virus has been found in New York now.

Not being familiar with a monarchy, if Johnson announced this, what if the queen wants to go somewhere? Is she all like, “fuck off, wanker, I’m goin’ to me bingo”?

Any issues with shortages in the grocery stores there?

R490 not so far on the online-only grocery store I use (Ocado). I wouldn’t expect shortages to start to show up just yet but I think they will. Thanks Brexit.

If R491 stubs his toe, he blames Brexit. Thanks Brexit is just another Thanks Obama.

[quote]If [R491] stubs his toe, he blames Brexit.

There is a new breed of upper middle class hoity toity types (of course it's Ocado, she wouldn't be ordering from ASDA now, would she?) who almost long for inconveniences to happen so they can blame Brexit.

When the coffee shops reopen and her barista gives her her triple shot soy latte with a dusting of cinnamon and it has froth, when she specifically asked for no froth, it will be Brexit's fault.

When she goes for her next dental checkup and has to wait 25 minutes because something something blah blah, it will be Brexit's fault.

When she's stuck in an Uber on her way to a Helen Reddy memorial dance recital at the Barbican and there's a hold up because a cyclist has gone under an double decker, it will be Brexit's fault.

When her Ocado delivery includes Preparation H as an alternative for her Anusol order, it will be Brexit's fault.

My deliberately referring to him as she and her when I know it's a man is clearly Brexit's fault.

But Brexit has led to goods shortages and difficulties in shipping things in and out of Britain as well as caused havoc with things sent by post and led to a big problem with VAT and customs charges, r492/r493. It's also stopped UK citizens from entering EU countries.

There's also a big irony (hypocrisy) in your attempt at a witty post at r493, considering that, in the minds of Brexiters, everything negative that ever happened to or in the UK over the past 40+ years was because of the EU.

Brits are still obese so Brexit obviously hasn't caused a slow down in food.

[quote]There's also a big irony (hypocrisy) in your attempt at a witty post at r493, considering that, in the minds of Brexiters, everything negative that ever happened to or in the UK over the past 40+ years was because of the EU.

The irony is that Remainer Ultras are becoming the new Brexiteers.

Shit is going to happen. Things will not always go as planned. I wish we'd stayed in the EU, but seeing EVERYTHING FUCKING THING through the prism of Brexit isn't going to help anyone. I wish we were still in the single market and had freedom of movement but I accept I'm in a minority and moaning about everything and blaming everything on Brexit isn't going to help the UK to rejoin at some point in the future.

Give yourself a slap, Cher style, and SNAP OUT OF IT.

All the rich people I know have been in isolation in the country or the coast since last March. The neighbours either side of me have been gone since then. I feel like I'm in a science fiction film where I'm one of those poor losers miss out on a place in the bunker before the comet hits.

R493 die in a grease fire. This might be a bit much for your simple mind to cope with but I’ll try to break it down for you. The UK has abruptly left the largest and most successful trading bloc in history with the first trade agreement in history that actually raises trade barriers rather than lowers them. This will lead to shortages. Yes, I can easily afford to shop at Ocado and seemingly you can’t, based on your vitriolic reply, but that is your problem, not mine. Why are you wasting your time here when you could be reading the daily mail which seems more in your lane?

R498 Nothing that takes two years is "abrupt", honey.

R499 it was signed less than a week before the end of the transition period with *worse* terms than the first one put forth by Theresa May, you simple child, so yes it was abrupt.

It's dragged on for two years, "child". Face it. It was raining on the day your country voted for it and you didn't want to get your hair wet so you sat your fat James Cordon ass at home while those who wanted to free themselves from the EU got up and voted. You're the minority. Accept it, cunt.

WHET naughty Theresa May?

Of course you're not actually British, dimwit who thinks Brexit is a good thing at r501.

R501 what a vivid imagination you have to be able to divine physical characteristics about a person from the three words “Ocado”, “Thanks” and “Brexit”. I imagine you sitting in the basement of your mother’s house, foaming at the mouth and furiously masturbating to QAnon groups on Facebook. I suppose I am actually the stupid one as I’m arguing with a poorly educated idiot on an anonymous Internet forum. Off for an oat milk latté now, ciao

Now now now R504 Don't get shirty because I did the same thing to you as you did to me.

UK coronavirus cases top 60,000 in one day for first time

From CNN's Niamh Kennedy and Nada Bashir

Daily coronavirus cases in the UK have topped 60,000 for the first time since the pandemic began according to the latest UK government data. Some 60,916 cases were recorded on the government coronavirus dashboard, surpassing Monday's 58,784 cases.

Another 830 deaths have also been registered over the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of people in the UK who have died within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test to 76,305.

The UK reproduction rate sits somewhere between 1.1 and 1.3, according to the dashboard.

In a statement, Public Health England’s Medical Director, Yvonne Doyle, said Tuesday that the “rapid rise in cases is highlight concerning” and will mean “yet more pressure” on the country’s National Health Service.

“We must stay at home, reduce contacts and do everything possible to break the spread of this virus,” Doyle added.

The new case record comes one day after UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a new national lockdown in England to tackle this surge. Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced Monday that mainland Scotland would enter into a lockdown from midnight whilst the remaining UK nations Wales and Northern Ireland started lockdowns in December.

[quote] I suppose I am actually the stupid one as I’m arguing with a poorly educated idiot on an anonymous Internet forum.

MARY!

I'm picturing your lips pursed like a cat's arsehole when you typed that.

WHO chief says China blocking probe into origins of COVID-19

The head of the World Health Organization on Tuesday accused China of hampering its investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic by failing to grant international experts permission to enter the country as part of their examination.

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said he is “disappointed” by Beijing’s stalling and noted that the members of the international scientific team have begun leaving their home countries in the past day under an agreement between WHO and the Communist Chinese government.

“Today, we learned that Chinese officials have not yet finalized the necessary permissions for the team’s arrival in China,” Tedros said during a news conference in Geneva.

“I’m very disappointed with this news, given that two members had already begun their journeys and others were not able to travel at the last minute, but had been in contact with senior Chinese officials,” he said.

The investigators are expected to travel to Wuhan, the Chinese city where the first outbreaks of the pandemic occurred in December 2019.

Tedros said he impressed upon Beijing that the probe was a top priority for the United Nations health agency and was told that China is “speeding up the internal procedures for the earliest possible deployment.”

“We are eager to get the mission underway as soon as possible,” he said.

President Trump withdrew from the WHO after blasting the agency for siding with China and helping it downplay the seriousness of the outbreak and the deaths it caused in Wuhan, leaving the world unprepared when the disease spread outside China.

The Johns Hopkins University coronavirus tracker said globally there are more than 86 million coronavirus cases and more than 1.8 million deaths.

Fuck China! They knew about this virus in October 2019 and said nothing about it, let it spread and go to other countries before it became obvious something was up, they then used their extreme authoritarian ways to lockdown harder than any western country could and went back to normal. China have reaped nothing but massive benefits from this virus and if you think the virus was completely unplanned then you are an idiot.

Over a half million deaths are expected in the US by early April.

You know things are about to get worse if they are suddenly VERY serious.

R510 How many of those deaths were because of covid compared to those who happened to have covid?

R512 How many of those deaths were because of people behaving stupidly and so caught Covid when they could have avoided it? How many of those deaths were because politicians refused to implement anti-Covid restrictions?

R513 Deaths are listed as COVID deaths whether they person died on a ventilator in the hospital or got hit by a bus (while happening to have COVID). Obviously the person who got hit by a bus died of getting hit by a bus. Not COVID. But they'll list it as such anyway because hospitals are paid triple for every COVID death.

[quote] Minnesota State Sen. Scott Jensen, a family physician: "I would remind him that anytime health care intersects with dollars it gets awkward. Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital, you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000, three times as much. Nobody can tell me after 35 years in the world of medicine that sometimes those kinds of things impact on what we do."

USA Today: FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons. But that’s how his comments have been widely interpreted and paraded on social media." (And by R514.)

And you believe "factcheck reporters". They're as biased as Snopes. Try harder, R515.

Those false claims have been disproved, r514.

Cultists don’t acknowledge inconvenient facts, R517.

[quote] Look at headlines from the UK over the last decade. Every year NHS reaches 99% capacity.

With one key difference. The number of beds allocated to flu and winter admissions of various sorts to say nothing of cancer patients has diminished greatly in many hospitals as the number of Covid patients continues to grow. Those patients require more resources and staffing. Staff are having to work longer shifts and decide on the spot which patient to rescue when emergencies arise and there are not enough staff to deal with them all. The bare capacity numbers don't tell the whole story; it is what goes into those numbers which is filling the NHS with dread. The numbers on ventilators today is the highest it has ever been and the UK has one of the lowest ICU capacities per capita in Europe.

The numbers are horrid but the one sliver of hope is that with increased testing (up from 400k daily pre-Xmas to 620k today) the numbers of infected hasn't doubled. Yet. The death figures for the next month are going to be awful, though and will not be helped with hospital staff attrition. There is only so much firefighting you can do before you need a break.

[quote]The numbers are horrid

Dr. Tom Frieden: I've never seen an epidemic curve like this. If strain becomes common in US, close to worst-case scenario, w/ baseline of full hospitals. Potential for perfect storm especially with political turmoil and leadership vacuum.

They managed to fuck up their country worse than Brexit could. Congratufuckinglations, Boris.

I can only thank Covid and Brexit together for getting British people banned from entering Europe. So much nicer now!

The death toll just keeps going up and up. 1820 yesterday. UK has the highest death rate per million in the entire world.

Not surprising at all, R523. I have family in the UK. According to them no one call tell there's a lockdown if they go for a walk in their neighborhoods in London or other parts of Southeast England. People are carrying on as usual, bitching constantly about their kids not being able to go to school, not wearing masks and not really practising much social distancing.

It's almost like a sense of entitlement pushing them to deliberately behave in ways that will make the pandemic worse. Fucking cunts.

My hetero Brit coworkers won't stop complaining about how difficult it is to have their kids at home. I am so tempted to snap back, "Don't fucking have your kids if you don't want to care for them and raise them."

It amuses me how readily hets succumb to peer pressure, and swap lovely lives with plenty of free time for the tyranny of parenthood. I know a couple who lived for their exotic vacations in the Maldives and Thailand and were always cheerful. Now as parents money is short and they holiday in the UK. They rarely smile and look harried.

Once as a teenager I was in the car with my father as we waited at traffic lights. Looked out to see on the pavement a young mother struggling with at least two berserk children. None of them close to happy. I said, 'Why do people keep on having children?' Without missing a beat Dad said, 'Because people like fucking.'

No real answer to that, and soon the lights changed. But given population stats, nothing else has.

Without missing a beat Dad said, 'Because people like fucking.'

But you get to fuck more if you don't have kids. So many women have bladder problems post childbirth or are hung up about the stretch marks and sagginess the pregnancy left them with that they're not keen on very much sex and want the lights out, gentle variety when they do get down to it. The presence of children in the house is of course another notorious passion killer.

r524 Just goes to show how much schools in the modern world have evolved into the role of serving the purpose of babysitters for parents. Many of these people who play at and preach happy families cannot in reality cope with too much of their childrens presence and if they had always had to educate them from home from the off then many would never have had second or third children.

Parents in the West are not equipped to be around their children at all times and can't cope with 24/7 childcare.

Now they say the UK variant is not only more contagious but also deadlier. The UK government has been guilty of one fuck up after another in its handling of the pandemic. There are Tory cunts who are still arguing against lockdowns.

r530 Those arguing against lockdown and saying just isolate the elderly and the vulnerable do not seem to grasp that if the virus finds a big section of healthy people it can easily spread amongst then that facilitates its ability to mutate and get out of control and perhaps evolve towards being deadlier OR even affecting young people or under sixties worse than elderly people. Do we really think if this was a virus that from day one killed the young and middle aged more than older people that so many politicians and right wing media would get away with promoting the idea of opposing lockdown? Lots of anti lockdown folk would soon change their tune if that was the case.

To expand on R531, in 1918, the Spanish flu was deadlier to young people than old people. It caused a cytokine storm, that is, a young, healthy person’s body’s immune system became so overactive, it killed the person by drowning them in their own fluids. Older people’s immune systems didn’t go into overdrive like that, and they were less likely to die of at least that complication. At the time, there was a world war on, and young soldiers were passing it by traveling by train and bus all over the country for the holidays. The last thing they needed was young men dropping dead of illness in the middle of a war.

There have been cases of cytokine storm with Covid, it was discovered in the early part of last year. If Covid evolves to favor spreading by infecting the young, which it certainly could, since none of them want to wear masks or social distance, young people could start dropping like flies. I wonder if they’d care about wearing masks then?

Excellent post r532 Peoples arrogant complacency is shocking.

R532 All true but viruses tend to weaken and not to cause as many deaths as time goes on. Killing 'the host' is the worst possible outcome for a virus because it will die itself.

There are always exceptions to the rule. Even the Spanish Flu started out by not killing too many people but in its second wave it mutated into a more deadly variant. The third wave was also deadly.

After that it would have mutated into something harmless. I know some people say it just vanished but viruses don't just go away. They usually get weaker and less harmful.

r534 Well here in the UK an increasing proportion of under sixties are ending up seriously ill in hospital this time >This is not inevitable but the virus could be adapting in the short to medium term to the unguarded welcome some younger people are giving it by not taking precautions and giving it an opportunity to get in amongst them. As you say viruses do tend to weaken but not always in a linear fashion straight away and maybe not if younger peoples behaviour is such that it encourages the virus to adapt in ways that target them.

"All true but viruses tend to weaken and not to cause as many deaths as time goes on" - except, r534, we're now seeing more virulent variants emerging and record numbers of daily deaths.

There is no reason for SARS-CoV-2 to weaken in virulence. This is not a law of Nature. If you haven't noticed, the virus is spreading exceedingly well already because people only get sick after they've been at their most infectious peak, so there's no evolutionary pressure to make the host less sick (the virus has already been successful in finding new hosts).

I have to say I do feel for parents. I'm not sure there was ever a time in history when parents were locked into a house with their children, no other family members, and forced to teach them and spend every minute with them. I know in my own family we've never been wealthy enough for stay at home moms and the further back you go the less time parents spent with their kids because they were on the land and the kids were working it too and done with schooling at 12. The further back you go the nuclear family living alone also disappears. In my family the first time mom dad and the kids lived alone was my parent's generation. I don't blame fr struggling and I know I could never do it..

Kid do make you poorer, they ruin your sex life and they strain the marriage but if everyone stopped having them we go extinct so I assume there's a very strong draw to procreation in many people. I don't have it but I have gay friends who went through 3 surrogates, hundreds of thousands and years of heartache. They eventually produced bot twins, one from each of their sperm which make me think maybe it's an eho thing too for many parents but who am I to judge because I won't be propagating the species!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Don't forget to mention the UK doing a mass vaccination of the elderly with a vaccine that doesn't work in the elderly, r539.

Rioters were screaming KankerJoden last night - Jew cancer - there is nothing that won't get blamed on Jews if you wait around long enough.

I lived in the Netherlands for nearly ten years, I knew them to be stubborn but principled, what is happening now is a shocking

R540 That isn't true.

We are feeling the same pain and desperation but as usual the right lash out and blame Jews/foreigners and globalists and we sit home depressed and abusing substances to cope. If only we could all put our heads together and agree on better solutions because it is true that governments all losing control and this is getting absurd.

I've been to the Netherlands many times as a teenager when my older brother worked construction over there during the week and cam back to the UK on the weekend. He was interacting obviously with your common man/blue collar worker and the right-wing and their theories was growing there even 15 years ago. I'm not that shocked.

I agree R540 is not true and has been debunked

Haven't lived in the Netherlands since this century really so I'll admit I've seen a very rightward jag in their culture since then.

R543/r544 - the AstraZeneca vaccine absolutely does have a much lower effectiveness in the elderly. That's why you will never, ever find anywhere stated the efficacy level that they found in the trials for the over-55s, let alone over-65s. If you know what it is, just tell us.

The decision to leave the interval between doses to 3 months apart is also a massive health risk.

R546 Am I right that AstraZeneca isn't able to meet the order the EU put in? Sounds like you have done a lot of reading about this so do you know what happens now. Are the EU ordering another vaccine? Going to leave months between the doses? I have an elderly family member with COPD in an EU country who lives with her front line worker son and the slow pace of rollout is terrifying.

[quote][R543]/[R544] - the AstraZeneca vaccine absolutely does have a much lower effectiveness in the elderly. That's why you will never, ever find anywhere stated the efficacy level that they found in the trials for the over-55s, let alone over-65s. If you know what it is, just tell us. The decision to leave the interval between doses to 3 months apart is also a massive health risk.

This is total and utter bullshit but it's not unexpected to see vaccine conspiracy theorists spreading lies to deter people from taking up a vaccine or just scare them.

Yesterday a German news outlet got very confused and reported the AZ vaccine only had 8% efficiency in older patients.

The 8% figure came from the vaccine sample group - 8% of those who trialled the vaccine were aged between 56 and 69.

R548 It's like talking to a child.

Yes, talking to r548 is like talking to a child. It's a very straightforward question: what was the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine in over-55s in the trials? What was the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine overall? Please provide links to original sources when you answer this question (which you of course will - and if you can manage to provide the data supporting the 3-month interval between doses, even better!).

UK passes 100,000 coronavirus deaths

From CNN's Richard Greene and Lauren Kent

More than 100,000 people have died in the United Kingdom within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test, government data Tuesday showed.

The country reported 1,631 new deaths, taking the total to 100,162.

The United Kingdom becomes the fifth country in the world to report that many deaths from the pandemic, following the United States, Brazil, India and Mexico, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

In a statement, UK Health Minister Matt Hancock said the figures were "heart-breaking," adding that the government is working to vaccinate the most vulnerable in society.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is due to lead a Downing Street press conference with health officials at 12 p.m. ET on the latest coronavirus updates.

Haven't the updates already been leaked, mandatory quarantine for travelers and extension of lockdown to March? He's leaked every announcement in advance.

Dutch police arrest more than 180 after third night of violent anti-curfew protests

From CNN’s Mick Krever in London

Police in the Netherlands arrested 184 rioters nationwide on Monday night, according to the country's national broadcaster NOS.

Some of the fiercest clashes with police were in Rotterdam, where officers said 50 arrests were made. Police said in a statement Tuesday that a group of youths started gathering in south Rotterdam around 7:30 p.m. on Monday, and eventually totaled several hundred.

“Agents were bombarded with stones and fireworks, and the rioters were also destructive, looting various stores and committing arson,” according to police. Riot police deployed a water cannon, tear gas, and at one point an agent fired a “warning shot” after being “cornered by a number of rioters.”

It was the third night of confrontation with police in the Netherlands. A national, nightly curfew designed to reduce social contact came into effect in the country on Saturday. It runs from 9 p.m. to 4:30 a.m.

Several cities -- included Eindhoven, Nijmegen, and Roosendaal -- had instituted emergency orders on Monday to prevent people from entering city centers. The rules meant that no one was allowed to be in central areas between 5 p.m. and 4:30 a.m. without a legitimate reason. Ahead of Monday's demonstrations, Eindhoven municipality had tweeted a warning to residents that the city center had been declared "a safety risk area" and that police were "prepared and strict."

National police said earlier Monday that at least 250 were arrested at sometimes violent anti-lockdown protests on Sunday. Police had also used water cannon, dogs and riot police on horseback to disperse the protesters at those incidents.

What's crazy is I bet those people weren't going to go anywhere anyway. Many of them are probably Q-ish shitheads but I can't help but think that common sense protocols and good leadership could avoid curfews and draconian measures. Wouldn't it be easier to close nightclubs, bars, sit in restaurants etc.. which would naturally reduce numbers of people out and about in the cold winter anyway? My birthday is in Feb and I've gone to Europe at that time many times and I have never seen crowds gathered in cities at that time of year.

R554 has obviously never been to the North of England

R55 I'm from there actually lol but so far no curfew there.

[quote]Wouldn't it be easier to close nightclubs, bars, sit in restaurants etc

Those already have been closed for some time in a lot of European countries. Most stores too, except for 'essential needs' like grocery/drug stores

Then what was causing gatherings at night that required a curfew?

R558 We don't have any curfews in the UK. Everything's already shut.

[quote]Then what was causing gatherings at night that required a curfew?

Apparently most infections happen at home. Here's what I found about the Dutch situation:

[italic]The Dutch government hopes that implementing a curfew will (significantly) reduce the number of social gatherings. The Outbreak Management Team said it would be particularly effective in preventing young people from attending / holding parties or meeting one another on the streets. Acting Prime Minister Mark Rutte hopes it will stop people from visiting the homes of family members and friends[/italic]

I was just gonna post that. I think it's so stupid. you close everything early and people have nowhere to go...so the gather at their friend's apts and elsewhere to continue their drinking session or whatever...

and meanwhile small biz everywhere is closing for good and the rich cunts like Jeff bezos get richer.

R559, yes but the raves are great!

Hundreds caught at illegal rave in east London as police hand out fines worth £15,600===========

It is the latest in a series of incidents in London in the past few weeks that have prompted police to describe some as "selfish".

Dozens have been fined after police caught 300 people at an illegal rave in northeast London.

Officers raided the unlicensed music event at a railway arch in Nursery Road, Hackney, at around 1.30am on Sunday.

Organisers padlocked the door from the inside and dozens of those attending scaled fences to escape as officers forced their way inside, the Met Police said.

A total of 78 people were stopped and issued with fixed penalty notices to the value of £200 for breaching COVID regulations by attending an illegal gathering, the force added.

The fines total £15,600. Advertisement

A woman, who claimed she attended the rave but avoided being caught by the police, said she learnt about it on social media.

She admitted she knew she should not have been at the event and later felt guilty about attending amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The woman, who asked not to be identified, told Sky News: "I suppose I'm quite an impulsive person and I feel like it is going on everywhere so there's a part of you that feels like you're missing out.

"I'm not saying it's something I regularly go and do but sometimes you just want to go and see what is actually out there and just explore what's out there, if you feel everyone else is doing it."

The woman said she knew people who had contracted COVID-19 but they had all been "fine".

She added that she did not plan to attend any future raves.

Chief Superintendent Roy Smith said: "Officers were forced, yet again, to put their own health at risk to deal with a large group of incredibly selfish people who were tightly packed together in a confined space - providing an ideal opportunity for this deadly virus to spread.

"Our frontline officers continue to police this public health crisis with compassion and professionalism but it is completely unacceptable they have to face such needless risks to their own health and to their families too."

It comes after police criticised party-goers for making "incredibly selfish" decisions during the coronavirus lockdown.

Superintendent Michael Walsh, of the Met's Central West Basic Command Unit, was speaking after they broke up a series of late-night parties in the London borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

On Sunday 17 January, police found more than 200 people at an illegal gathering in Knightsbridge.

When told to go home, the attendees became hostile and pushed past officers in an attempt to avoid being fined, police said.

Two officers were injured, around 30 fixed penalty notices were issued, and a three-month closure order is being prepared for the establishment, which had already been fined for a previous breach of COVID legislation.

On Saturday 16 January, more than 30 people were found socialising in a venue in Ladbroke Grove, west London, police said.

The venue's owner is being considered for a fixed penalty notice amounting to £10,000 and those who attended were told to go home.

Last month, an illegal gathering at a commercial property in Knightsbridge resulted in the venue being closed for three months, following previous breaches of COVID legislation.

[quote] I think it's so stupid. you close everything early and people have nowhere to go...so the gather at their friend's apts and elsewhere to continue their drinking session or whatever...

Why can't they just go home? The immaturity and irresponsiblity is so OTT. This is how gluttony starts. They just can't limit themselves.

Go home!

it sounds so easy...just go home...but young people just want to have fun! they don't want the fun to end at 9pm or 10pm!

I feel terrible for them.

they can't do nothing lol.

R562 That has nothing to do with what I said. We don't have a curfew and everything is shut. No-one is banned from leaving their home after a certain time and an illegal rave in an underground arch isn't the same as a night club. What is your point?

[quote] it sounds so easy...just go home...but young people just want to have fun!

They're just going to stand around on their phones, texting people.

[quote] I feel terrible for them.

MARY! I don't.

Fat, dumb Brits are so arrogant and selfish they can't even be fucked saving themselves. 'The vaccine will save us! When's the vaccine coming! We are the chosen people, a SUPERPOWER! We need to go to the pub every day and sink piss.'

I hope the virus mutates and kills the lot of them.

'Don't forget to mention the UK doing a mass vaccination of the elderly with a vaccine that doesn't work in the elderly, [R539].'

What are you talking about? The Uk has vaccinaed 90% of over 80 year olds. The US hasn't even vaccinated all the patients who are over a hundred.

'Don't forget to mention the UK doing a mass vaccination of the elderly with a vaccine that doesn't work in the elderly, [[R539]].'

Stop spreading fake news you ugly fat Trump cunt.

R552 They leak everything and judge the next course of action by the reaction of the public, it's almost like holding daily referenda.

London DLers how are things going? The new variant infection rates are sounding dire from here in the states, have you been more cautious with going to shops etc or staying about the same?

Things are getting back on track. There are even some parts of London now which have suppressed figures meaning there are fewer than three cases. You can see on the data map below if you are that interested, r571.

R571, cases are dropping dramatically here, but we're still in hard lockdown. No shops other than food shops and "essential" shops are open at all. Every day is a new BS fear-story from the govt.

The vaccine programme is going really well, except in London where rates are significantly lower.

You have to read between the lines to understand what's going on, but there's a significant reluctance amongst Black communities to get vaccinated, with young black women the most resistant, and there's lower take up with Asian communities as well. There's been a huge amount of effort to overcome the disinformation spread about the vaccine and how it will affect fertility, but it's not cutting through. London has also seen lower figures than the rest of the country for childhood vaccinations.

Black and Asian Londoners already have poorer health outcomes, tend to live in more densely populated areas and overcrowded buildings with more chance to get infected (e.g. large blocks of flats with one communal entrance) and are more likely to work in public facing roles, including the NHS and social care

If vaccine take up in London remains this low, London will reopen later than the rest of the country, or it will have to go back into lockdown more quickly when infections start to inevitably rise.

It took closing all the schools and colleges to get the numbers down but every day the cases drop. From around 60k a day in mid January to 13k today. Deaths are down by about 300 per day week by week.

We now have a Red List of 33 countries and if you fly in from those you'll be escorted to government managed quarantine hotels upon arrival. The UAE is one such country after scores of ugly influencers went out there for 'work' - really a vacation.

[quote]There's been a huge amount of effort to overcome the disinformation spread about the vaccine and how it will affect fertility, but it's not cutting through.

Who is spreading disinformation about the vaccine's affect on fertility?

If it sterilises men over 50 that's a good thing. Those hoes should not be having children. The majority of the rest aren't at risk of serious covid so can skip the vaccine is they're that concerned.

Black obsese people over 60 are literally suicidal if they're refusing the jab.

R578, the latest numbers in the UK seem to point to the mortality rates for Black people having dropped significantly in the second wave and now being the same as or lower than the rates for whites. The worst affected in terms of infection rates, the levels of how serious the illness gets and death rates are people of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin.

[quote]Who is spreading disinformation about the vaccine's affect on fertility?

Anti vaxxers, Covid deniers, Lockdown truthers, religious nuts, conspiracy theorists.

Enough people to get countless media organisations to refute the disinformation.

r573 Mutations that beciome more deadly if given the chance to spread and live amongst the young especially is a real threat .thats why too many people refusing the covid vaccine is dangerous as non vaccinated people socialising heavily could enable the virus the opportunity to adapt to a new variant that kills younger people.

R581

Your Chinese medical school didn’t teach you English grammar.

The BAME population are proud of refusing now but if they want to travel back to India or Africa to see family they're going to have to show proof of vaccination which might push some of them to have it.

R581 Been there. Done that.

r584 Precisely!

actual reason for vaccine delivery constraints :P