It’s back. Six episodes in and I am still in love.
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It’s back. Six episodes in and I am still in love.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||Last Tuesday at 6:43 PM|
The Andorian in the most recent episode was played by Mary Wiseman's cookie-smelling husband.
He was apparently a huge Trekkie growing up, so it was kind of a dream come true for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||11/23/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 2||11/27/2020|
I'd love it a lot more if it didn't try to make Michael the savior of the universe in every single episode.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||11/27/2020|
R3 doesn't know what a protagonist is.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||11/27/2020|
Yes, dear, I do. But there was no reason for Micheal to go to Trill with Adira, other than it's the Michael Burnham show.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||11/27/2020|
I love Michael, including her flaws and conflicts, and I love that they - the writers - don’t shy away from pointing them out and that they make her answer for them.
Episode 6 and 7 were fantastic, and both highlight the strengths of both Star Trek as a whole and of Discovery in particular.
And again - omg! Tilly!!!!! 😭
|by Anonymous||reply 6||11/27/2020|
Really? Honestly I think this season is boring AF.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||11/27/2020|
R7 Really? I don’t feel that way. I think it’s really established the characters and their dynamics, and I am loving the mystery of “the burn.”
Also, might I add that the acting in this series is so overlooked and underrated. Everyone brings their A-game.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||11/27/2020|
More a comment on the entire season: I am getting more and more frustrated with the lack of depth the show is showing. Discovery simply has too many main characters that it cannot possibly service sufficiently in 10 – 15 episodes per season. Did Saru actually have a story this season? Stamets, Culber, Reno? So many characters are sidelined while we get a rehash of Burnham feeling out of place. I didn’t need the introduction of Book. How about telling us more about the more seasoned characters? We get bits and pieces about everybody all the time, but never a dedicated story. I don’t have ADD; I can handle a story in one piece within 60 minutes.
More related about the they/them C-story: Those lines about “they” and “them” wasn’t even a story. That dialog sounded like coming straight from a deck of my HR department.
What was good? Detmer having fun flying. That was a great moment. Could have become a real story. But even those two minutes were fun to watch.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||12/04/2020|
I have to check out the latest episode. I love the whole series, unabashedly, but I feel you, R9.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||12/04/2020|
Book and his bro definitely had some sexual chemistry, yes?
|by Anonymous||reply 11||12/05/2020|
No. They didn't have any chemistry - at least in my more or less humble opinion. I didn't even buy them as friends let alone Bros. I may not have paid too much attention. That story was so by the book (really no pun intended) that I started reading on my tablet.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||12/05/2020|
You nail it R9. The best way to describe this show is that a lot is going on but nothing is happening. The writers are so focused on going from one point to the next, but we never see how we get to each point. That's what plot is all about and there's too many shows on TV now that have no character development. STD is one of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||12/05/2020|
Star Trek: Discovery does have character development, goddammit!
|by Anonymous||reply 14||12/05/2020|
The best part of the last episode was Detmer getting a few minutes to cut loose and show some personality. I do enjoy the show overall, but it doesn't seem to have much of an idea of what it wants to do. It's suffocated by the savior complex they've saddled Michael with, plus now it's "woke" with the addition of the Adira character. Michelle Yeoh is being completely wasted.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||12/05/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 16||12/05/2020|
I have to discuss the preview scene for next week, which is going to explain just what's happening with Phillipa.
David Cronenberg is back, and explains that she's messed up because she's traveled through time in a different dimension and her howsiwhatsits are all messed up.
Cronenberg knows this because he's seen it before, in an officer who came from the 24th century, but had originated in an alternate universe created by a Romulan mining ship.
He's from the Kelvin-verse.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||12/06/2020|
[quote]Michelle Yeoh is being completely wasted.
THIS!!! In fact, all their big name appearances (Rebecca Romijn, Tig Notaro, Michelle Yeoh, even Spock) are all wasted.
It must be nice working on that show because you get paid to not do much... outside of Sonequa Martin Green.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||12/08/2020|
needs more Borg
|by Anonymous||reply 19||12/08/2020|
Bitches, it will get better! I love it too much, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||12/08/2020|
The actor that plays Saru does a terrific job. Great character. It’s probably one of the best, most layered and empathetic performances on the show, and he’s got a big goddamn rubber mask on his head. Amazing, really.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||12/08/2020|
People jacking off to mediocrities like Discovery and The Mandalorian are proof of our declining standards and our increasingly impoverished culture.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||12/08/2020|
Oooh, get her!
|by Anonymous||reply 23||12/08/2020|
R22 Your dank pomposity and odious pretension as you shoot your noxious and bitter jizz off on a pleb innocently enjoying a harmless crackerjack show - in my opinion, of course - are surely proof of something, though I don’t care enough to reach beyond the, I am sure, apt labels: boring and tedious.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||12/08/2020|
Steady on, r24.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||12/09/2020|
Love that Detmer got a moment - but there's still something going on with her.
I actually missed Reno the past couple of episodes.
The more they feature Book the more I love him.
Current theory amongst the ST geeks is that BURNham caused the Burn.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||12/09/2020|
Urgh... Say it ain't so. Burnham's role in the universe has been overexposed already.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||12/09/2020|
I also enjoyed the Detmer flying scenes much more than some of the other scenes. Enjoyed seeing her flying with Ryn the Andorian, especially his reaction when the cat jumped onto his lap. "AAAAAH, WHAT IS THIS CREATURE?!?"
|by Anonymous||reply 28||12/09/2020|
Overall, I'm really liking this season so far (can't believe it's half over already). I greatly appreciate the shift towards more character focused stories with less frantic pacing. The best episode so far was Unification III which didn't feature a single battle or action sequence, it felt much more 'old school' Star Trek. That being said, and I might be in the minority, I still think season 2 was slightly better (I'll reserve final judgment until we see the whole season). I really feel the absences of Anson Mount and Ethan Peck greatly this season, I think they and their characters added a great dynamic to the show and the show falls kind of flat without them. It's clear that this season they've tried to move away from the completely interconnected episodes to more of a thread approach (similar to DS9) where the story lines continue into subsequent episodes, but every episode can stand on its own merit to a degree, but this season just seems to lack stakes. The main story 'what caused the burn' is really kind of 'meh,' it hasn't captured my attention. I read that they were planning on focusing more on Michael's quest to find her mother, but the actress who played Michael's mother was arrested last year with possession of cocaine and they weren't sure if they could get her into Canada to film.
R1 Mary Wiseman's husband, Noah really long last name, does ping BUT I actually think he's a really geeky/preppy straight guy.
R6 I actually like the soft reboot of Michael's character this season. Although, I have to be honest, I don't 12 months separated from Discovery is a long enough gap to justify the huge changes in her character. What I do like is the fact that she no longer seems to want the responsibilities of command. I think the "saviour of the universe" story of the first two seasons has made her shy away from wanting to be in the center seat.
R15 Michelle Yeoh was given more to do last season. This season's they're basically setting up the Section 31 series, but I think they dragged it out too long. Yeoh is not in Toronto filming season 4 (she's back in Paris where she lives) and the rumour is the Section 31 series will begin filming later in 2021.
R26 Tig Notaro has confirmed she was in fewer episodes in season 3 because of her touring schedule.
R28 I enjoyed the Detmer scenes too. I also just recently learned that the actress that plays her is married to a woman in real life.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||12/09/2020|
Good science fiction is theme and plot driven, with character development taking a back seat. Discovery is just a soap opera set in space. It's not science fiction.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||12/09/2020|
R30 Um, have your ever watched Star Trek (particularly TNG or DS9) or shows like Babylon 5, or BSG, or even the Orville?
|by Anonymous||reply 31||12/09/2020|
R31 I'm a huge fan of TOS and TNG. DS9 is where it started to go off the rails although it's still good. The Orville is just pure trash, as is Picard and Discovery. Some character development is good, but it shouldn't be the raison d'etre. The Expanse is a show that balances character development with hard science fiction.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||12/09/2020|
You take that back about Picard and Discovery!
|by Anonymous||reply 33||12/09/2020|
Not a particularly constructive comment but I find Book utterly hot.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||12/09/2020|
R30 Then don't watch it.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||12/09/2020|
R35 oh believe me I dumped these trash heaps of shows after watching the first few episodes and skipping through the newer seasons. Absolute shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||12/09/2020|
R35 oh believe me I dumped these trash heaps of shows after watching the first few episodes and skipping through the newer seasons. Absolute shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||12/09/2020|
R36 & R37 and yet you're wasting time on a thread about (4 or 5 replies now) about a show you hate....maybe you should do something more productive, or get a hobby or actually meet people and move out of your parent's basement?
|by Anonymous||reply 38||12/09/2020|
R38 I think he/she hate watches both this thread and the aforementioned shows.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||12/09/2020|
R38 Here's my take: anyone who spends hours of their writing about something they claim to hate actually loves it. But we live in a time were shitting on everything gets you more views.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||12/09/2020|
I am filled with hate and rage for Star Trek. I will see it dead and buried. To the last I grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||12/09/2020|
You’re a cutie, R38/R41. Please stay.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||12/09/2020|
My theory: Detmer has cybernetic implants which means, just like Arium (Erium?) she was susceptible to infection by Control. I think that her mental state is partly caused by a tiny piece of Control that’s currently dormant.
And can I just say, thank fucking God we have moved past any mention of holodecks and episodes of them malfunctioning.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||12/09/2020|
[quote]. Some character development is good, but it shouldn't be the raison d'etre.
Some character development is good, but personally I prefer other elements of Sci Fi.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||12/09/2020|
R44 It's not control Kristen Beyer confirmed in a Positively Trek podcast a few weeks ago that they will not be revisiting the Control story line. Emily Coutts (who plays Detmer) said in an interview with Star Trek magazine that Detmer is dealing with PTSD stemming back to the battle during the Klingon War. Also, She and Lt. Owosekun are a couple right?
|by Anonymous||reply 45||12/09/2020|
I do wish they had opted for stand alone episodes, rather than a long story arc. Somehow I wasn’t awfully invested in Michael’s mom/red angel last year, and the burn this year. Give me a Harry Mudd episode.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||12/09/2020|
R46 I prefer season long arcs myself but I have to admit, the burn stuff isn't really all that interesting. In all honesty though, this season has been more episodic than the previous two. Strange New World is supposed to be more episodic "planet of the week" stuff. I think producers are really trying to give every part of the fandom something they'll be drawn to.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||12/09/2020|
The writing just isn't very good. The red angel thing was cringy.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||12/09/2020|
I think overall Discovery has improved this season. The writing is stronger and the characterizations are improving. But anyone else find this season kind of directionless with a noticeable lack of stakes. Today's episode "Terra Firma Part 1" was a good episode but really was just filler. If the burn is supposed to be the central story of the season than go all the way. I think they beated on fans being way more interested in that they actually are.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||12/10/2020|
R49 I haven’t watched today’s ep yet!
|by Anonymous||reply 50||12/10/2020|
R48 Bingo! I don’t dislike Discovery because I’m some sort of snob; I dislike it because I know what well-written, well-cast, well-acted Star Trek looks like, and this ain’t it. Same is true for Picard, by the way. The increased availability of mediocre content (fueled by tired franchises, remakes, and remakes of remakes) in the Streaming Age has deadened everyone’s critical faculties.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||12/11/2020|
I think - and this is not based on well-founded fact finding, just my hypothesis - that the show has a too large budget, and that it is too self-conscious to write something extraordinary.
Visually, the show has all the bells and whistles. Personally, I could do with less. Lots of SFX are overdone. Remember the times when outer space was just dark and black with maybe one or two white spots sprinkled in? When I look out the window that still seems more plausible than all the CGI fogs and energy ribbons you see in Sci Fi. Less is more in my opinion. Or think the overdeveloped Klingon look leading to decreased abilities for the actors to act (behind all that rubber), or at least two fighting scenes in each episodes, just because you need to spend the budget.
Then there is so much fan service that the writers feel compelled to do which prevents them from finding the show's own Star Trek voice. Great SFX look good, but that's not what a show is going to be remembered for. Neither are fight scenes. Audiences usually remember a great story arc, a remarkable character or a profound message. Not sure DSC has found its voice in this regard yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||12/11/2020|
R51 Or maybe some of us just like cotton candy, as cambric and unnutritious as it may be.
R52 Good points.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||12/11/2020|
R52 You mentioned a lot of the points I wanted to make! They are clearly trying to be more cinematic with Discovery, which is great, but Star Trek has never been a cinematic show (even the movies with the exception the Kelvin ones). Star Trek at it's core, is an exposition based show. It's interesting if you look at many of the different series, it's their 'bottle episodes' (the ones they wrote to save money) that often end up being the legacy episodes: "The Drumhead" or "Measure of a Man" on TNG. "In the Pale Moonlight," "The Visitor" and "Far Beyond the Stars" on DS9. Voyager I can't think of any because I think most of it's top 10 episodes are its high-budget two parters.
And I agree, the fan service is damaging the show. Every season so far has been an attempt to rectify the fan complaints. TNG and DS9 writers/producers largely ignored the fandom and ended up producing two shows with lasting legacies within the franchise. The show needs to be allowed to find its own voice. There are hints that's happening this season but still not quiet there.
There has been a lot of turnover in the Disco writer's room so that probably explains a lot of what is going on. When I watch the show, I feel like the episodes lack anchors e.g. a clearly defined A-story. Unification III is probably the best episode this season because it's plot was the central focus of the entire episode with a minor B-plot of Tilly being offered the role of first officer. Many of the episodes have so much going on it's hard to keep track.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||12/11/2020|
R52 It's strange that such a high budget show seemingly can't afford good writers. It's all style over substance. It's visually stunning, but not a whole lot of new ground being covered for Star Trek or science fiction, generally. I randomly watched an episode of TNG yesterday, not a well known one either, and it was far superior in pacing, plot, dialogue, etc. than Discovery or Picard.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||12/11/2020|
Is the female android the android Messia or something and have they shown more of the male android with BDF?
|by Anonymous||reply 56||12/11/2020|
Paul Guilfoyle’s character is a Q, right? We’re agreed?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||12/11/2020|
R57 Maybe but he seems to be connected the the Guardian of Forever. The newspaper he holds up, is the same one we see at the mission Kirk and Spock go to in "City on the Edge of Forever" there is allegedly even a picture of Joan Collins as Edith Keeler briefly seen in the paper.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||12/11/2020|
Anyone else think Jason Isaacs is going to turn up next week?
Also I am assuming this Michelle Yeoh's swansong to Discovery? These seems to be setting up the groundwork for her own show which I believe is supposed to start filming later in 2021. Right now Discovery is filming season 4 in Toronto but Yeoh is currently at her home in Paris.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||12/13/2020|
Wow, I don't know if we needed a two-part episode setting up the Section 31 series, but that was honestly a great episode. I loved watching Philippa realize how much the Prime Universe had changed her, and that she liked that about herself. And I got quite verklempt at her goodbyes to Michael.
The crew toasting her was great too.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||12/17/2020|
In ToS, Guardian of Forever specifically states that he cannot alter the speed at which he operates.
It stated that it was older than the Earth's sun - 4.6 billion years old. In the paltry 900 years, it couldn't possibly have evolved as it did to present itself as it did.
When you cannot write a coherent story without deus ex machina magic, you do not have a coherent story.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||12/17/2020|
R60 I haven’t watched the last two episodes- I’ve been busy with work - but your post has me excited!
|by Anonymous||reply 62||12/17/2020|
R60 It has me legit excited for the Section 31 series. Michelle Yeoh is just fantastic and she's more than worthy of carrying a whole show on her own. I loved the speech Michael gives at the end of the episode about her relationship with "Philippa." Anyone who has a complex relationship with family (or chosen family) will understand that line: "I loved her, I hated her, often at the same time."
R61 Why would you waste two hours of your life watching something that you don't like and then spent more time afterwards writing about it on DL?
|by Anonymous||reply 63||12/18/2020|
What was it exactly that mirror Georgiou gave Burnham? I understand that 'our' Philippa was like a mother to her. But what was it exactly that MU Georgiou gave her?
|by Anonymous||reply 64||12/18/2020|
[quote][R61] Why would you waste two hours of your life watching something that you don't like and then spent more time afterwards writing about it on DL?
Another exhausting person who doesn't understand the role of critique and critical analysis.
Does it cause you social anxiety when people don't agree completely with you? Do you get sad or depressed when people don't shower you and the things you like with praise without any negative criticism?
Would you like us to find you your comfort animal to self-soothe while you try to courageously carry-on through a discussion thread?
|by Anonymous||reply 65||12/19/2020|
R63 Just block R61 trust me, half the form will disappear ;)
|by Anonymous||reply 66||12/19/2020|
I still haven’t watched the last 2 episodes. Discovery was trending on Thursday and yesterday, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||12/19/2020|
R67 I really enjoyed the last two episodes but they are viewed better if you watch them as a single two hour episode. The episode is clearly set up to redeem the Georgiou character and set her up for the Section 31 series (if/when that happens).
|by Anonymous||reply 68||12/19/2020|
R68 Will do. I plan on watching them tomorrow.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||12/19/2020|
So, is the Section 31 series actually happening? After the new Pike show was announced, all the talk about Michelle Yeoh's spin-off seemed to die down.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||12/21/2020|
The explanation for the Burn is...disappointing.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||12/24/2020|
r71, very disappointing. Now watch Burnham save the universe at the end of the season. I’m so over that show hogging character.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||12/24/2020|
[quote][R71], very disappointing. Now watch Burnham save the universe at the end of the season. I’m so over that show hogging character.
It's too bad that the character isn't that good because I find that I like the actress - she's doing as good a job as she can with what's she's given.
Every once in a while, you see glimmers of what could-have-been with her portrayal of the character. Frankly, if the character were a bit better, she'd probably knock it out of the park, and we'd all love her.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||12/24/2020|
The op looks pretty now!
|by Anonymous||reply 74||12/24/2020|
r73, my favorite season 3 episode thus far is Episode 2 when we get a whole episode with everyone but Burnham and she shows up just in the last scene.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||12/24/2020|
R72 hello? The premise of the show is about her. Its always has.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||12/24/2020|
[quote]The explanation for the Burn is...disappointing.
Yet if it had had something to do with Michael, people would have complained louder.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||12/25/2020|
[quote]Yet if it had had something to do with Michael, people would have complained louder.
There are many possible explanations that would have made for great tv that would have had nothing to do with her - strawman much?
Can you imagine how hated the Kelpians would be if they are found to have been responsible for the Burn? Threat ganglia would be going back on the menu across the galaxy...
|by Anonymous||reply 78||12/25/2020|
Yeah I have to say this week's episode was a let down. I feel like the writing for the season is much stronger than the previous two, but the pacing and the stakes are way off. The burn story has been uninteresting, and this sudden shift back to possibly making Michael the captain of the Discovery is annoying.
That being said, I'm not sold that the explanation for the burn is 100% the whole story, I think there's more to come. The writer's of discovery have been good at defying our expectations. I also think the story for this season is going to continue into season 4. The season opening was "That Hope Is Your Part 1" but there was not a part two. I think part two will be the opening to season 4.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||12/25/2020|
If the explanation for the burn is really just a kelpian kid having a tantrum then I’ll definitely be disappointed, but I’m hoping that’s not the whole story
|by Anonymous||reply 80||12/25/2020|
[quote]If the explanation for the burn is really just a kelpian kid having a tantrum then I’ll definitely be disappointed, but I’m hoping that’s not the whole story
For the story to have that sense of surprise, but inevitability - the kind of ending where no one guessed, but all the pieces of the puzzle and clues were right there - the Burn needs to have been tied somehow to Discovery coming to the future. A lot of folks have also tried tying the short Trek Calypso to the current situation which would give it a clear sense that it was all planned out.
If you look at the TNG episode "Cause and Effect" (the one with Kelsey Grammer), his ship coming forward in time causes the temporal anomaly that traps the Enterprise. Discovery going 1000 years into the future needs to have consequences.
The most satisfying shows and movies are the ones where all the pieces fall into place when the final string is pulled. Given Lost and Alias, I doubt that Kurtzman will pull it off.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||12/26/2020|
Can someone please explain the Calypso short with Book. When did this take place. He was on an empty Discovery acting like it was his first time on that ship. Was it Discovery or another Federation vessel?
|by Anonymous||reply 82||12/26/2020|
Don’t laugh, bitches, but I’m mentioning this show in here because Trekkies are so the demo for it. I think you’ll like!
[quote] Stumbled upon this on Disney + and am shocked by how smart and good it is! I vaguely remember being aware of this in the 90s but I was in my mid-teens and outgrowing my love of comic books (one never really does, though). Pleasantly surprised and engrossed. Too bad it only lasted one season.
Sci-Fi and Trekkies will appreciate it!
|by Anonymous||reply 83||12/26/2020|
[quote]Can someone please explain the Calypso short with Book. When did this take place. He was on an empty Discovery acting like it was his first time on that ship. Was it Discovery or another Federation vessel?
This short trek was released between season 1 and season 2. It's not book. It's a guy named Craft.
What makes it so interesting is that a sentient AI is running Discovery at that point after the crew has abandoned the ship - a hint at the sphere data that was eventually downloaded in Season 2 and the reason they needed to jump into the future. During Season 3, we've gotten hints that the AI is becoming sentient and will "become" the AI named Zora that we see in Calypso.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||12/26/2020|
Thank you r84.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||12/26/2020|
[quote]So, is the Section 31 series actually happening? After the new Pike show was announced, all the talk about Michelle Yeoh's spin-off seemed to die down.
If you noticed, Discovery Season 3 was obviously filmed with a much lower budget than the previous 2 seasons. COVID delayed productions & the network bottom line took a punch because of the shutdowns. And the recent industry articles about Discovery not getting the viewership that the network expected. It all comes down to some plans being delayed or cancelled all together. And Section 31 may just be one of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||12/26/2020|
R86 The recent "industry article" you're referring to if from Giant Freaking Robot which is a dubious news source that is typically on board with those "Alex Kurtzman is fired" dudes. I suspect this bull, though I am willing to believe CBS All Access is not the success CBS had hoped for.
First off, Amazon Prime pays part of Picard and Lower Deck's budget so I doubt they're going to allow it be streamed on Netflix in the US. Season 4 of Discovery is already filming, Strange New World, and Picard season 2 are set to film in February, and Section 31 is supposed to start filing in the summer after Season 4 of Discovery is done. The Section 31 show was announced in January 2019 but even then, Kurtzman said it would be two years or so before the show would start filming because they were going to wrap Georgiou's story on Discovery and Michelle was basically booked solid until the end of 2020 (this was before COVID of course). The Pike show was always going to go into production before Section 31 because the sets were built and the show cast.
Picard is going to film season 2 and 3 back to back, Discovery has unofficially been given the green light for season 5, and Lower Decks is currently filming season 2 which is likely going to be out by the Summer or fall.
Star Trek Prodigy is set to begin in 2021 (Mulgrew has hinted she will be doing voice work from home in January) and Kurtzman has implied CBS has greenlit two more project we haven't heard anything about yet. Star Trek is doing fine.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||12/26/2020|
Are they filming Picard in LA at the same time they're filming SNW in Toronto? There was a post on the Star Trek on All Access Twitter (which is separate from the main Star Trek one) which was a video clip of La Sirena at warp with the message "Heading towards 2021 as fast as possible. #StarTrekPicard."
|by Anonymous||reply 88||12/27/2020|
R88 Yes, Picard will film (assuming there are no further COVID delays) at the same time as SNW in Toronto, but in LA. When Patrick Stewart agreed to do the new show, one of his conditions was that it would be filmed in LA because it was more convenient for him. Stewart is primarily based in New York but he bought a house in LA in Summer 2019 (while Picard was still filming) and he seems to have been based there during COVID.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||12/27/2020|
R86 & R87 CBS All Access is being rebranded next year to Paramount+ and it sounds like the new service is going to have a greater focus on sports and movies. The new Star Trek shows were the cornerstone of CBS All Access but it's possible with the rebrand they may feel Star Trek doesn't fit the brand as much. Discovery does really strong numbers on international Netflix and is typically in the top 10 when new episodes air. US Netflix has wanted to buy the licensing right to Star Trek for years. That being said, I can't see CBS selling off or moving new Trek a different platform. What I can see happening is a deal with Netflix in which the PAST SEASONS of Discovery, Picard and LD are made available several months after they air on Paramount+
|by Anonymous||reply 90||12/27/2020|
Apparently this week's upcoming episode of Discovery will be the 800th episode of the entire Trek franchise.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||12/28/2020|
Long live the empire
|by Anonymous||reply 92||12/29/2020|
Interesting thread about Anthony Rapp over here: allegedly he's a bitch to deal with on the Discovery set. Also, all the men's butts are padded on the show?!
|by Anonymous||reply 93||12/29/2020|
I used to love Star Trek. But I'm kinda done with this show. The episode yesterday had only one silver lining which was Tilly in the captain's chair. I'm glad she was portrayed as competent and not insecure like other underlings before who got to try the big chair for the first time. Tilly even oozed some great gravitas as acting captain. But oh my god does this show need a sense of direction. It really has no clue what it wants to be. Right now it wants to be everything for everyone and accomplishes nothing.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||12/31/2020|
The writers really need to learn basic script writing, e.g., how scenes "turn", setup/pattern/payoff, show/don't tell.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||12/31/2020|
Is the ship a Venezuelan, or a homosexual? Why does it twirl in that flamboyant and attention-getting way before traveling at warp speed?
|by Anonymous||reply 96||12/31/2020|
In another forum they call the Orion villain "Discount Seska". That made me laugh.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||01/01/2021|
I actually thought she did well in her scenes with Vance. She doesn't seem that intimidating when she's ordering people around.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||01/01/2021|
I also thought it was very sweet of them to find a way to give Kenneth Mitchell some work while accommodating his ALS limitations.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||01/01/2021|
If Michael ends up kicking that Orion bitch’s ass and saving the day, I will be so piss. Let Tilly be the hero.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||01/01/2021|
I actually think they are setting it up to be Tilly. Michael hasn't had any scenes with Ossyra I don't think.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||01/01/2021|
R101 in the trailer from next week, Ossyra and Michael are shown engaging in hand to hand combat.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||01/01/2021|
r102, that’s what I’m talking about. I’m so over Michael.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||01/01/2021|
Are there more episodes to this season or was that the finale?
|by Anonymous||reply 104||01/01/2021|
Next week will be the season finale I think.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||01/01/2021|
What the fuck is wrong with that Orion chick's mouth? It's like there are prosthetics that don't fit well or something. It's CONSTANTLY distracting.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||01/01/2021|
R106 I've noticed that with both the Orion and Andorian characters this season. Their skins seems rubbery. I think rather than applying the green or blue paint right to the actors skin, they are putting on pieces of pre-painted latex (similar to the type of mask they would have used for Odo back on DS9).
|by Anonymous||reply 107||01/01/2021|
That's really sad about Kenneth Mitchell. He was so hot on Jericho.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||01/02/2021|
R106 & R107 I'm pretty sure they are using latex applications on her face. Discovery is filmed in HDR and applying green paint directly to an actors face would look "cakey" because it would draw attention to every pore and wrinkle on their face. Applying painted latex gives a smooth look.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||01/02/2021|
Except I'm constantly distracted by how fake her mouth looks.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||01/02/2021|
I noticed that her mouth was “off” too. Not sure what it was, but it was quite distracting.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||01/02/2021|
Same actress when she was in CW's Arrow:
|by Anonymous||reply 112||01/03/2021|
[quote] Is the ship a Venezuelan, or a homosexual? Why does it twirl in that flamboyant and attention-getting way before traveling at warp speed?
What a cutie you are, lol.
So, I’ve fallen behind by 4 episodes. Good thing about that, though, is that I’ll be able to go on a mini-binge.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||01/03/2021|
R112 The actresses name is Janet Kidder. She is the niece of the late Margot Kidder. I was kind of shocked to read she's 50 in real life. I guess using the green latex cuts down on showing wrinkles.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||01/03/2021|
[quote]She is the niece of the late Margot Kidder.
Now that you say that, I totally see it. Even with the makeup.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||01/03/2021|
A little over 6 hours before the season finale drops.
Things I don't want to see happen:
- Saru leaving Discovery to be with his people.
- A combined Vulcan/-Ni'Var and Earth fleet warping in to save the Federation.
- A cliffhanger beyond Osyraa escaping.
- Somehow there is a space magic explanation that makes Tal "real" and able to interact with everyone else.
Things I hope happen:
- A better explanation for the Burn than a child's tantrum (the timing is such that it was either his mother's death or his birth that caused the original Burn if that is what caused it).
- The floating apparition turning out to be the "real" Sukal after decades of radiation with the one that looks Kelpian being a hologram.
- David Cronenberg is the President of the Federation, not the head of Section 21.
- A much better version of Zora, the sphere data AI. Frankly, if it's got that much knowledge, why doesn't it have info on other options besides dilithium-based warp cores? If it could pinpoint the location of the Guardian, especially since it's been moved from the original planet, then it's got to have other options (frankly, the sphere data is a huge and ridiculous plot device - how could Discovery have enough memory/storage for all that data. The Enterprise D was barely large enough to store the Binars' data and the sphere data has to be orders of magnitude larger).
|by Anonymous||reply 116||01/06/2021|
Well, that was utterly disappointing...
They could have at least created some conflict and escalation of stakes by making it that another Burn would happen if Sukal left the dilithium planet forcing them into a moral dilemma between saving him and utterly destroying the rest of the dilithium or leaving him to die as the ship falls apart, then space magicked a solution to save him. Even better, they could have NOT saved him and given the character a development arc where he finally matures after being told what's happened and he sacrifices himself. For good measure, they could have thrown in Saru deciding to stay with him as he dies, but at the last minute Sukal pulls a Data-from-Nemesis and saves Saru who is left devastated afterwards and needing time away from the ship. It all could still have ended the same way, but with better escalation of stakes and tension.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||01/07/2021|
r116, please tell me Burnham didn’t save the day and became Captain.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||01/07/2021|
r118 - if only I could, r118. If only I could.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||01/07/2021|
So my overall thoughts for the season. I loved the character development, and I liked the slower more thoughtful tone. That being said, these season's biggest problem was its pacing. The main story (finding the federation and the cause of the burn) was too spread out and made the last 3 episodes feel weak and more like after thoughts. I still think the show has improved but if you're going to tell one continuing story over the span of a season, it needs to be more connected. I still think Season 2 was better overall than season 3.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||01/07/2021|
In season two, the final two episodes were the best two.
In season three, the final two episodes were the weakest two.
I kinda agree with R117.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||01/07/2021|
Just once I'd like to see an episode where Michael Burnham isn't the savior and maybe actually is saved by someone else.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||01/07/2021|
And what the fuck was up with that scene with the turbo lift? Why was there so much unused space? Very unrealistic considering the ship design.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||01/07/2021|
R122 How dare the star of the show frequently save the day. I mean it's not the lead character of any other Star Trek series saved the ship week after week. Like we never saw Kirk save the ship, well maybe sometimes, but only like in 79 episodes.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||01/07/2021|
Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer weren’t always the only one saving the day. I will miss Saru.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||01/07/2021|
"Get a life. For God sakes its just a tv show"
|by Anonymous||reply 126||01/07/2021|
I loved the first part of season 3 up until they revealed the cause of the burn and Georgiou left. A kid grew up close to dilithium and now his tantrums can affect dilithium everywhere in the galaxy? I know it’s sci-fi but that just makes no sense to me - and from a story point of view I found it very unsatisfying.
R123 And yeah, wtf was up with 90% of the interior of discovery looking like a futuristic Amazon warehouse
I had no problem with Michael becoming captain though, that’s been inevitable since episode 1 anyway, I’m only surprised it took so long
|by Anonymous||reply 127||01/07/2021|
[quote][R123] And yeah, wtf was up with 90% of the interior of discovery looking like a futuristic Amazon warehouse
It was a cool visual but didn't make a lot of sense.
Then again, Insurrection revealed that the Enterprise-E had its own bottomless pit, so there's that.
I'm glad they saved putting the crew in the contemporary Starfleet uniforms for this.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||01/08/2021|
Saru is the best character and real star of the show - sorry Burnham stans.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||01/08/2021|
Burnham being Captain was always the plan, but it just doesn't seem in line with where she is in her character development. I did enjoy the changes they made to her character this season and the move away from her more 'logical' view to more 'Kirky' kind of rouge action hero. But honestly, I think they should have either made her captain right from the start of the season OR waited until the end of next season.
The first half of the season was better than the second half but overall as a whole it was too padded out. I think the writers caved too much to fan pressure to make the series feel more episodic and as a result, they lost control of the story they were trying to tell, and key elements were added in too late. Like Osyraa didn't have enough screen time to make her feel like more than a cookie cutter Star Trek villain. The Emerald Chain also didn't work well because we really didn't see much of them to make them seem like bad guys we should be concerned about. Saru longing to be with his people came in too late. Ironically the Georgiou two-parter was probably the best episodes of the season and yet they should have been much closer to the beginning.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||01/08/2021|
[quote] lost control of the story they were trying to tell, and key elements were added in too late.
I agree with that, but I really don't understand how that could happen. You have roughly a year to come up with thirteen episodes. But this season feels like they hammered something together within six week and ran out of time to mold thirteen segments into a cohesive product. And that was before Covid.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||01/08/2021|
When Adira went to Trill, it was Dr. Culber that should’ve went with her and not Michael. The episode started off being centered on him and that his voice over narration commenting on everyone. This is the main problem I have with the show. They got Michael damn near everything and considering the ensemble like acting from previous ST shows, it’s tiresome. The only other person the show spent considerable time with is Saru and Georgiou. They’re both gone and Michael’s the Captain. I’m not looking forward to season 4.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||01/08/2021|
R131 They didn't have a year. Season Two ended principal production in December 2018 and Season Three began filming in July 2019. It's likely the story boarding for season 3 didn't begin until January or February 2019 and active script writing probably not until March or April. They don't write the whole season before filming beings. At the most they had one script in production, one in pre-production, and one in final draft at any given time. I'm not excusing the writers but the pace of television is such that even in serialized TV while the whole story might be plotted in advanced scripts are not written as far out.
I think there was some turnover in the writer's room again this season and I think they had too much on their list of what they wanted to do (the state of the federation, the burn, the emerald chain, Earth, writing Georgeou out of the show) that it all got lost in the mix. I think they made a mistake with the Georgeou stuff, either it should have been earlier in the season freeing more space at the back end, or saved for Season 4 since the Section 31 should will likely not be ready until after season 4 airs any ways. If we're lucky Section 31 is supposed to go into production in Fall of this year....but who knows with COVID>
|by Anonymous||reply 133||01/08/2021|
[quote] should’ve went
May I "Oh dear" real quick?
|by Anonymous||reply 134||01/08/2021|
I don't like being so negative on this show there are flashes of something profound but it always seems to immediately correct itself into mediocrity. Like when Ossyra was negotiating with Vance, suddenly she becomes a layered villain ruthless but who lays out a path forward for her society banning slavery and the writers immediately chuck that into the garbage by having Vance insist she stand trial for crimes. He never had Georgiou prosecuted. Discovery's pet nazi committed crimes many magnitudes worse than Ossyra but never saw consequences for it. Now Vance is ending those slaves' chance for freedom by making a deal no leader of a foreign nation would ever possibly agree to. It would be like if the Khitomer Accords required Klingons to be prosecuted for war crimes, it's the federation struck by utter stupidity and that characterises so many poor decisions the characters make. Plot threads that if the writers thought about for more than 5 minutes they'd realise make no sense.
But I'm watching old old trek for the first time and Spock, Kirk and McCoy are so wonderfully bitchy to each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||01/08/2021|
They need to go back to an episodic format like TNG. DS9 style serialization is not working for this clunker.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||01/08/2021|
The problem is not the serialization, but the bad writers.
These people follow the JJ Abrams/Kurtzman approach that was used in Lost and Alias: toss in as much "cool" stuff as you can possibly think of without any plan to being the threads all back together. Then, throw out some half-assed explanation that doesn't even follow the rules of the universe they created, let alone the established rules of the franchise they're playing in.
These writers are actually technically less proficient at the craft than a lot of the Trek fanfiction out there.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||01/08/2021|
R136 No thanks. I actually don't like episodic TV and it's not how things are done anymore in most sci-fi shows. It's more the quality of the writing rather than the serialized story telling. Strange New Worlds is supposed to be more 'old school Trek' which is awesome and I suspect it might steal some of Discovery's dominance as 'the' Star Trek show (you know part of the fandom will be happy with the white male lead). But Discovery was always set up to be an arc based show as was Picard.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||01/08/2021|
[quote]there are flashes of something profound but it always seems to immediately correct itself into mediocrity
This is EXACTLY how I feel about this show. Glad I'm not the only one.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||01/08/2021|
There are some who absolutely love this show. I know someone on FB who think this show is God’s greatest gift to TV and do applause emojis for every damn episode. I’m scratching my head and thinking WHY?
|by Anonymous||reply 140||01/08/2021|
I really did love the first half of the season. I thought it had so much promise.
That promise was never lived up to.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||01/08/2021|
I like Discovery, I don't love it, but I appreciate for what it is. To me it kind of feels like what Voyager would have been if it had a much larger budget. I do think the writer's just need to stop worrying about the fans and write the show they want to write. I think a lot of the show's problems rest with caving into the a vocal minority of fans who will shit on it regardless of what they do. The Star Trek fandom as become toxic just virtually everything else in our lives these days.
R141 I agree the first half was much better. The second half just lost its way although I enjoyed the finale even though it was fairly predictable take back the ship story that we've seen a dozen times before. Though I have to say, how the fuck is discovery that big inside given how flat the ship design is.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||01/08/2021|
So the turbolifts aren’t ‘lifts’ at all. They are pretty much the same as the mining trolleys in Gringotts Bank according to the final episode.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||01/08/2021|
The whole turbolift thing was ridiculous. Unless, it's built in subspace or something.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||01/08/2021|
Discovery must be a TARDIS. Larger on the inside.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||01/08/2021|
I am not even sure the season started well. The season opener wasn't that great either. This whole show has become so tedious. The pacing is off, characters don't get the opportunity to shine, plots don't make sense... what's to love?
|by Anonymous||reply 146||01/09/2021|
Is Discovery a flawed show? Hell yes. It reminds me a lot of Voyager in that it regularly displayed good concepts and interesting stories that often lagged in execution. What I don't get is people who clearly hate the show but keep watching it. That just seems like a waste of time frankly. You must have very little joy in your life. Seriously, go spend your time doing something more productive or do something that makes you feel good, particularly in this day and age.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||01/09/2021|
I love Star Trek, I watch Discovery in the hope it will live up to the franchise.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||01/09/2021|
I think the first half of the season was much more solid and then about half way through it seems to have lost focus and then had to rush the ending. Now, I did like the movement towards more character development over constant action. Burnham has been re-worked to be more of a Kirk character and I like that much better. I know part of the fandom is at odds with making her captain and I get it to a degree. For me I always knew that's where the character was headed but I think the problem is we are so used to her not being the captain it's going to be an adjustment seeing her in the role.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||01/09/2021|
R145 an episode of Enterprise apparently does confirm that by the 29th century, the Federation does possess tardis technology.
One thing I was blown away with this season was the score. Apparently due to covid every musician had to record their part at home and then Jeff Russo pieced it together part by part.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||01/10/2021|
Someone earlier in the thread claimed that the budget was cut for Season 3 and, yes it was and wasn't. Both Seasons 1 and 2 went over budget due to production overruns. Season 1 filming took much longer to film than originally expected due to the complexity of set construction and FX shots, and turnover in the writers room. Season 2's production also ran over by almost two months. While the fifth episode of the season was filming, the head writers of the show were fired and production was halted for six weeks while the season was reworked slightly.
When it came to season 3, CBS became more strict about the budget and production time (six months plus 1 months for re-shoots). This was one reason why Discovery took on a slower pace this season to better be able to meet production requirements.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||01/10/2021|
That's at least 9 days per episode. Does that include pre- and post-production? Otherwise 9 days sounds like a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||01/10/2021|
I enjoy the show, but I think Season 3 was the worst of the seasons. I am really over Anthony Rapp as he isn't a great actor and the editor was really heavy handed by cutting to his "upset face" at the end of the finale too many times. We get it. He's pissed at Michael. I like Tilly and the rest but the acting was just off this year. I'm sure it's the stress of the year coming through. I really hated the whole "they/them" bullshit that they forced into the storyline although the actress who plays Adira is very likeable and actually a good addition to the cast. The weird twinky dude? who plays Grey though is just annoying. Still, we got to see Tilly showing herself as a bit of a bad ass and I think Book is a great addition to the cast. I felt the same about Voyager but it turned out to be one of my favorite Star Trek series in the end, so I will stick to this one for a bit longer.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||01/10/2021|
Twinky dude ? It's an FTM. Did you not notice the blue hair ? The pairing of the old gays and the queer kids was an awful idea, it doesn't look natural. They talk with Adira twice and they all fancy themselves as a big and happy queer family ? Don't feel the love here, maybe because Rapp can't emote and Cruz is no better.
They did a much better job with Saru and the unbearable man child. And they only had two episodes together !
|by Anonymous||reply 154||01/10/2021|
So I guess we’ll have Burnham go on every damn away mission next season because, well, Burnham. One of my favorite episodes of the season was the second one that focused on everyone but Burnham who didn’t show up until the very last scene.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||01/10/2021|
Book was an unnecessary add-on in my - book. He didn't add much that the Klingon-to-Human former boyfriend didn't bring already. Unlike Ash/Voq, Book was terribly underdeveloped (like all the other characters too actually). I don't even think Book and Michael had good chemistry. Their friendship started somewhere between episode 1 and 2 of this season. Why and how they became lovers? I have no idea.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||01/10/2021|
R156, they spent a year together and I guess they became lovers during the episode when they kissed.
But yes, all the characters except Burnham and Saru and maybe Tilly are underdeveloped. I couldn't even tell you the names of the crew member who were making the run with Tilly at the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||01/10/2021|
The third season started with Lt. Detmer having some issues after Discovery crashed upon entering the future because of possible issues with her cybernetic face implants. I was intrigued but they totally dropped that storyline.
We got to see a little more of Lt. Owasekun and it was enough to establish she’s a bad ass. I want to see more of her.
I definitely want to know more about those absolute hotties Lt. Bryce (African-American) and Lt. Rhys (Asian-American). Their characters are obviously great friends and I do appreciate great platonic ST friendships.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||01/10/2021|
The whole 1000 years into the future was as bust as well. Even a portion of a millennium of technological advancement would have yielded much more than ordinary humans with site-to-site beaming. They could have jumped 200 years and it would have been more believable.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||01/10/2021|
The overall fan favorite moment of the finale seems to be when we saw Aditya Sahil, who had never abandoned his post behind the desk on an abandoned Federation relay station in the hopes that one day the Federation would return, near the end of the episode wearing his Star Fleet uniform after being made Lieutenant. In almost every discussion board I've read, people have said THIS was the moment where they literally cheered.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||01/10/2021|
r160, I agree!
|by Anonymous||reply 161||01/10/2021|
R152 My understanding is that Discovery (and Picard) take about 10 to 12 filming days for a single episode. TNG, VOY, DS9, & ENT were 8 days for filming per episode but television production has taken on more of a cinematic approach with less pages of the script being shot every day. Picard was only 10 episodes but had a 5.5 month shoot. Discovery had a 13 episode seasons and shot for almost 7 months.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||01/10/2021|
[quote]The overall fan favorite moment of the finale seems to be when we saw Aditya Sahil, who had never abandoned his post behind the desk on an abandoned Federation relay station in the hopes that one day the Federation would return, near the end of the episode wearing his Star Fleet uniform after being made Lieutenant. In almost every discussion board I've read, people have said THIS was the moment where they literally cheered.
It was probably the best moment in the finale...And, it wasn't nearly as big a moment as it should have been - which demonstrates that the writers don't actually understand what they're doing.
Yet, the way they emphasize Burnham's "I don't believe in a no-win scenario" was clearly thought that it would hit BIG with fans as a callback to Kobyashi Maru and Kirk.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||01/11/2021|
R162 I know for Picard the shooting schedule is longer because Marina Sirtis talked about it in an interview after her appearance on the show. She said they had a lot more time and money than on TNG.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||01/12/2021|
|by Anonymous||reply 165||01/12/2021|
Wow, the admiral is really doing every Federation business all by himself - all from his white little office. The Federation IS tiny.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||01/13/2021|
Random: Mary Wiseman has come out as queer. She states that before she met her husband Noah she had dated women and men. So, to date that means out of the main cast (the one's listed in the opening credits) on SMG and Doug Jones identify as straight. In terms of the secondary characters, Tig Notaro and Emily Coutts who are both in relationships with women in real life.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||01/14/2021|
I suspect her husband has either gone up inside another man or had another man go up inside him as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||01/14/2021|
R168 Yeah I've got that vibe from him too. I also wonder about Doug Jones actually. I know he's been married to a woman for almost 40 years, but he pings for me as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||01/14/2021|
So the consensus here seems to be that the writing ... could improve. Maybe Alex Kurtzman can be convinced to shovel boatloads of money toward Ron Moore or Ira Steven Behr. Everything would be forgiven.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||Last Tuesday at 6:22 PM|
Ron Moore gave us the stinker final season of BSG with the utterly disappointing resolution to several key plot points...just like Fringe, Alias, and Lost.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||Last Tuesday at 6:27 PM|
I would love to see Ron More and Ira Steven Behr come back to the ST universe. DS9 was the best ST show. Deal with it! If they took on Discovery, one thing we do know. Burnham would still be the star/central character but all the other supporting players would be better written and get their days in the sun. Burnham WOULD NOT be the saving every damn day.
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