The Constitution is up for a lot of amendments after Trump and the GOP.

Huh?

If nothing else, Trump has demonstrated our government is only as effective as the people who run it.

There are a lot of traitorous Republicans right now

What specifically, op?

As if.

Do you know what’s required to amend the constitution op?

R4 is right.

Good luck with that, unless you have a majorly of the both the house and senate and the presidency. That last time that happened was in 1992.

Even with a congressional majority, R6, you’ll need a good chunk of red state America, too. Not going to happen.

Well I guess it depends on how much shit comes out after the Secret Service drags Dump's ass out of there. Congress needs to reign in the Executive Branch, to which it has ceded too much power. All this 'executive order' bullshit has to go.

You need 75% of state legislatures to ratify. See that happening?

Just because one sees it difficult does not mean there's not a need. Think replacing fossil fuels.

OP is a moron.

OP is right.

R11 OP is not a moron. The Constitution certainly with respect to the Executive Branch has to an extent relied on the character of those filling the office of POTUS. Those norms have been tested by testy orangeness.

After the failures of intelligence which left us exposed to 9/11, there was a commission established to review those failures with an eye to fixing them. Same should happen now. We need a full laundry list of all the norms that need to be instituted as legal rules. For example, shouldn't future candidates be required to provide their tax returns?

The electoral college should have passed on Trump. It couldn’t, of course, but that is its purpose.

The electoral college is useless. Trash it. I’d like to see the President elected by the popular vote, but that won't ever happen.

Jobs that require Senate approval - limit the time a temporary appointee can occupy the position. Also, limit his power.

Executive orders - limit them.

We need a better way to depose of a President. Trump should have been deposed years ago. Amendment t 25 is useless. It needs to be completely rewritten.

For starters.

I don't understand people who say this or that will never happen. I see it a lot here. I guess the can-do American mojo is gone. I think these attitudes may also skew old.

There are only two we need:A Constitutional amendment to ban dark money and overturn the Citizens United decision. And elimination ofthe electoral College. The rest can be addressed with laws and legislation. The problem is getting people who will ENFORCE the fucking Law. We need a strong ethical DoJ and we need to change the way Congress does business. McConnell abused power and ignored laws. Since when can he block evidence and witnesses from testifying and since when can the fucking executive branch ignore subpoenas and just get a strongly worded letter from the House? That needs to change. We need serious aggressive enforcement when people are in contempt or ignore legal instruments to compel their testimony. I can't even.

We won’t get 3/4ths of the state legislatures and 2/3rds of Congress to agree on anything for a long, long time.

I never got why, since the House of Representatives has "the power of the purse" why they didn't exercise it. If they subpoena the Secretary of the Treasury, or they demand he release the taxes, etc. and he ignores them, or he changes their deadline arbitrarily, he has to feel the burn. Impound his fucking budget. Fine him. rescind something. But back his ass against the wall and keep it there. Nadler and even Pelosi were too timid with those fuckers. This might sound nuts, but every time they were in a situation like we saw, and there were, unfortunately many such situations, they should have asked themselves, "What would the Republicans do if this were Obama and the Dems acting out?"

We need to flip more states. Or at least elect majorities in the state legislatures and elect more governors. Honestly? The Republicans ought to never get elected to public office again for a generation. They need to be dismantled. Right now the Dems have 24 governors. Not sure how many Legislatures. People need to understand how it works. Like, I heard a lot of talk about Mass Incarceration. It is a legitimate issue. But people need to focus on the states and the state corrections systems and the criminal justice systems and state laws and judges. People get caught up in a PResidential election but 2022 is just around the corner and you better believe the Republicans are already planning how they will regain the House and hold the Senate. The stupid squabbling on the Left is gonna fuck us up. The need for compromise within the Democratic PArty is critical.

R19, I think the Dems are praying that they can protect the last few “norms” that are left. Give me a goddamn break. We passed that four years ago. And no OP, this will never ever ever happen.

R17

dark money Citizens United Enforcement the way Congress does business

All of these you mention may not be accomplished under Biden but he can start the work under pressure from the progressives. This Congress is still paid by corporate money. It can be done only by young progressives not by old neoliberals.

[Quote] And no OP, this will never ever ever happen.

Ok boomer.

Aside from Biden the Democrats did horribly in 2020 picking up NO new state legislature. The same legislature that will have to ratify any new amendments. Plan B of waiting for boomers to die also doesn’t seem that sensible. I think the only amendment that might pass is shortening the transition. It’s crazy to wait two months for the new President to take over.

OP PLEASE, I’m not a Boomer — just a highly highly highly cyclamate, jaded, pessimistic Gen Xer. If you’re convinced this will happen, please tell us how. I’m sincerely asking. It’s not like I don’t want it to happen! I DO want change.

[quote] The phrase “Eliminate the electoral college” is used for two different things.

The first is to simply eliminate the gathering of people who cast votes exactly according to how their state voted. We don’t need that. Well, we do need it, in the sense that they should have refused to vote for Trump . But since that didn’t happen, the group is vestigial and should be eliminated. Just count the votes and tally them.

The second meaning of it is to eliminate the gathering of people [italic] and [/italic] just count the national popular vote. This will never pass because the low-population states have a lot of power with the current design, and they won’t give it up.

Yes, we need to get rid of Citizen’s United. Either through carefully crafted legislation, or a constitutional amendment.

The constitution needs an update as it cannot serve the people as it is today.

I’ll add, Biden should increase the SCOTUS to 15. In the same legislation, let it fall back to 11 through attrition. We need to increase from 9 to 11 because their workload has increased.

And this business where the Senate can refuse to hold a hearing and vote for months on a President’s SCOTUS nominee (McConnall/Obama) is BS. We need a “Creep Amendment” to prevent that in the future.

OK GenX! 😂

Look, r25 I'm not a politician. This forum is really just for lightweight fun. I come here to throw ideas in the ring and enjoy your responses. I didn't come here to be prescriptive.

BUT

Since you ask, so prettily ...

I think we need a group of young progressives (like the young Republicans in the Clinton admin) to steer the big creaky status quo DP with a progressive agenda for change. Kinda equivalent of the Contract for America. I rather think a non-identity politics approach centering on Middle America would be my pref.

Or we need a third progressive party allianced to the DP. A second party, if you are wont to be cynical 🤣 Who knows, if the Dump keeps going, the GOP may also split into regular conservative and altright fascist groups.

R25 Most work is always done by a few. Most change comes from the few. It takes time and strategy. Vision and courage too.

The Republicans want a “Constitutional Convention”, which is another way to change the Constitution. Once it is convened for one purpose. It can completely rewrite the Constitution. It’s not a good thing, but it’s been approved by almost enough states to proceed. Red states of course.

I’m r25, terrible typo, meant “cynical”.

I agree with you BTW. I would get right in line behind an agenda to correct these issues IF I think the strategy is smart and that we don’t set ourselves up to fail. All of my cynicism comes from the Rethugs, not Dems. The other thing is that to do this requires such a huge bipartisan agreement that I don’t fathom how you think we can “flip” that many in the GOP. As long as McTurtle is in power, I don’t see how you think this will happen. But again, it’s what I want too, and if the younger Progressives build a coalition that can create the pressure, I’m in.

The best thing that could EVER happen is McTurtle dying. The KY governor could appoint a Dem, yes?

The Governor of KY is a Democrat but Kentucky is super red. Any Democrat he picked would have to be very conservative.

Even Covid can't kill any of these high profile Republicans so I don't think McTurtle is going anywhere soon. Real bastards live forever.

R25 We need to think outside the box. Starting out by counting Senate seats is like counting beans.

You first gotta change minds to cause a mental paradigm shift on HOW we understand governance and society. Like say, David Graeber, RIP, did to put the idea of the 1% in the public mind.

We've been consistently deteriorating since the Vietnam War and sorely need a spit and shine. Or there will always be people like Reagan and Trump to exploit weakness in the way we see ourselves. That's what I think anyway.

I think it's more important to get behind the exploration of an idea than to line up behind a successful piece of legislation. But, ultimately, what do I know.

[quote]I can't even.

Can’t what?

[quote] The first is to simply eliminate the gathering of people who cast votes exactly according to how their state voted. We don’t need that. Well, we do need it, in the sense that they should have refused to vote for Trump . But since that didn’t happen, the group is vestigial and should be eliminated.

If the people in their state voted for him, then they should have. We don’t want to be seen as trying to overturn the will of the people too.

The purpose of the electoral college is to prevent a clown like Trump from becoming President, regardless of the vote. Remember, we vote for electors, not for President. The electors are supposed to be thoughtful, educated, and wise.

r11 is correct-- OP is a moron. Many people in this thread don't appear to understand what the Constitution does and does not do. You can make big changes through legislation. Most of the things mentioned in this thread can't be achieved by amending the Constitution. Also, it is really hard to change the Constitution by design.

Both Dump and Sanders could have been avoided by making it mandatory that presidential candidate release their tax returns.

Yes r38!!!!!! But do we need a Constitutional Amendment to see tax returns??? The parties could simply make it a requirement, would be much easier.

[quote] The purpose of the electoral college is to prevent a clown like Trump from becoming President, regardless of the vote. Remember, we vote for electors, not for President. The electors are supposed to be thoughtful, educated, and wise.

Yeah, OK. And when a blue state like New York says, “Biden is a clown, we’re going trump” what then?

They should be crucified if they don’t vote the way their state has voted, regardless of who that is.

What if the electors in Michigan thought that this time around? What if Georgia, which hasn’t been blue in years said, “we’re not a blue state! Trump it is”?

R40, I described why we have the electoral college in the first place, not why it simply won’t work, today. This is why we should dump it and just go with the state vote as certified by whomever, the Sec of State for the state, or whomever.

Amy Klobuchar was trying to drive this home during the primaries, but since Berners are stupid and Russian propaganda brainwashed partisan hacks they didn't get it.

A democracy is a government system where the people rule by electing their representatives. If democrats had executive, judicial and legislative power for the last 20 years there wouldn't be an electoral college, climate change, social injustice, wide spread racism, Fox News, gender inequality...

Stop putting Trump and Bernie Sanders in the same category. You're making a false equivalence, and you know it.

Both Dump and Bernie received dirty Russian oligarch money with the purpose to weaken Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

The whole squad is getting propped up with dirty money.

It's all about divide and conquer!

[quote]Yes [R38]!!!!!! But do we need a Constitutional Amendment to see tax returns??? The parties could simply make it a requirement, would be much easier.

The requirements for the presidency are in Article 2 of the Constitution.

[quote]No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

There are no other requirements, and if there were, they'd have to be added to this.

I think it's time to make a list highlighting all the similarities between the far left and the far right.

I'll start:

Bernie refused to sign Russian sanctions bills and the Magnitsky act.

The media will actively sabotage any attempts to overturn Citizens United. Why? Because they are the prime beneficiaries.

What a bunch of loser nervous nellies. No wonder they cant get workers, away from thr GOP. Oh wait. Not can't. Won't.

[quote]The Governor of KY is a Democrat but Kentucky is super red. Any Democrat he picked would have to be very conservative.

I'm okay with that, maybe someone slightly to Manchin's left. The Democratic Party once included people like Sam Nunn. I know he wasn't the sort of Democrat Dataloungers long for, but we should broaden our horizons a bit. We could pick up some seats with Democrats who're conservative on defense or law and order, but support collective bargaining, a sturdier social safety net, and more funding for education, K-Ph.D.

^ hehehe funny!

Do we need a constitutional amendment to say the A president cannot pardon his friends or himself?

Let geeky mister beat show you the way

Be careful what you wish for. As was previously posted, once a convention to amend the US Constitution is duly convened, everything is on the table.

Too much has been left to the individual. That is now clear. The powers of the POTUS need to be spelled out constitutionally.

Amending the US Constitution is not an easy nor sure process. Last time it was done gave us Prohibition, and I presume you know what that unfortunate movement lead to... Well among other thing the next and last time USC was amended, to get rid of Prohibition.....

If things could be predicted to have a certain outcome GOP would have carried out their threats to push for amending Constitution to ban same sex marriage.

There is a whole wish list containing scores of proposed amendments to US Constitution that went no where; anti-abortion and banning same sex marriage are but a few in recent memory.

Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it should not be done. Many good things are not easy.

It isn't just the difficulty, but as mentioned uncertain outcome. It would be a huge amount of upheaval just to correct issues that may never arise again.

Besides as stated there are far easier ways (such as via enacting legislation) to deal with issues that have arisen during current administration. Well easier than trying to amend US Constitution anyway.

[Quote] issues that may never arise again.

I think it is highly likely that the issues will rise again and more powerfully. See the Dump as the logical result of GOP policies since Reagan and I thnk it should be clear.

[quote]Last time it was done gave us Prohibition, and I presume you know what that unfortunate movement lead to... Well among other thing the next and last time USC was amended, to get rid of Prohibition.....

There have been six more constitutional amendments since the repeal of Prohibition. Try to keep up, R55.

The presidents powers need to be spelled out and not left to the common decency of the person. You can be sure the next GOP president will be worse than Trump. Guaranteed.

I’m not sure that’s possible.

See this:

The report on self-dealing comes as first daughter Ivanka Trump is being scrutinized as part of the D.C. attorney general’s lawsuit probing potential misuse of the Trump 2016 inauguration fund.

Nothing is impossible, including defeatism.

[Quote] I’m not sure that’s possible

We thought the same after W. To be as bad as Trump and worse is absolutely essential if one of his children is elected in 2024. And don't tell me it is not possible. To be worse than him is the only way a Trump child can rehabilitate is father. See how Trump has made W look good?

But most importantly, the conditions that produced and enabled Trump still exist and don't seem likely to change with the new administration. I don't see or hear anything different in the appointments and pronouncements.

[Quote] I’m not sure that’s possible

We thought the same after W. To be as bad as Trump and worse is absolutely essential if one of his children is elected in 2024. And don't tell me it is not possible. To be worse than him is the only way a Trump child can rehabilitate is father. See how Trump has made W look good?

But most importantly, the conditions that produced and enabled Trump still exist and don't seem likely to change with the new administration. I don't see or hear anything different in the appointments and pronouncements.

After Dubya we got Trump. It’s a race to the fucking bottom with Republicans isn’t it?

The Republicans who are not speaking up now will feel validated and will do more of the same when Trump 2.0 comes along.

Americans view the constitution as a sacred text, even as its flaws are becoming more glaring.

The electoral crisis, the decline of trust in government, and gross income inequality in the United States may seem like separate issues. But they have a surprising, common origin: the US Constitution, or more accurately, its shortcomings. Indeed, the depth of multiple crises in our nation in 2020 — if not their existence entirely — are all rooted in our flawed Constitution and the judicial decisions that it has facilitated.

Pardon me?

OP is correct, but it won't happen because to amend the Constitution requires two thirds of the states to ratify, and most states are GOP states, and the GOP will never allow the loopholes and levers they've exploited to be eliminated.

We need new requirements for running for president (including, but not limited to, requiring anyone who runs have been elected to state-wide or federal office and served a minimum of two years, they must pass a standard security background check, must release the previous 10 years tax returns before they can even declare, cannot hold or trade individual stocks, and must divest from any and ALL businesses they own, control, or have any controlling interest in).

We need new requirements for The Senate (i.e. they MUST bring to the floor for a vote any legislation passed by the House, and they MUST hold a vote on any SCOTUS nominations within three months of the nomination).

We need tons of formalization of standards and practices that have been 'gentlemen's agreements' and simply 'tradition'. We must never allow something like Trump, or this GOP, to happen again.

We also need new laws against nepotism, more muscle behind things like The Hatch Act and the Emolument's Clause (Trump has violated both nearly every day in office with zero consequences).