Why were the Brooke Shields Calvin Klein Jeans commercials so controversial back then?

Because a little girl was telling the world she was freeballing.

Older conservative women were upset at the flaunting of Brooke's butt on TV. The slow moving camera close-ups of a young teen were not the norm at the time.

Of course a wide variety of women rushed out to buy skin tight jeans. Sergio Valente to the more costly brands. Many were thrilled that the emphasis had suddenly switched from big boobs to toned behinds.

She was one of the most beautiful teens ever

R3 agreed. I remember seeing her in The Blue Lagoon and thinking “what a gorgeous girl”.

Years later in the 90s I remember seeing her and thinking “still pretty but what happened to that level of beauty she once had?”

I always wondered what looked different and her jaw (and her face in general) looked different as she got older.

Some conspiracy theorists say the real Brooke was murdered and what we have now is a clone lmao

Shields had a history that informed the reaction. She had been photographed nude as a child by a professional photographer. She'd played a child prostitute etc.

She was very beautiful

Nothing cums between me and my Calvins.

Shields and Lauren Bacall were probably the most beautiful teenage models.

She developed into quite a good actress, especially in comedy. Good for her.

A compilation of her commercials.

On top of women being outraged she was being sexualized at 14/15, the one where she is with a (beautiful) grown man upset many.

Dyan Cannon freeballed first. I think there was false hope the look would fade when the Red-haired tap dancer waddled about with a mooseknuckle on squeek. Along came that head of hair attached to the perfect V-shaped body.

It was an astro-turfed campaign by Big Pharma to create demand for over the counter generic gynelotrimin. A nation of chafed cooter makes conservative decisions.

After the celebrity of her childhood and teen years faded, most people assumed she just faded away as an adult actress. In fact she's had a career in TV and theater that most actresses would kill for. We've been discussing here lately in the theater threads.

She was very beautiful with natural glamour to her. Just like Jennifer Connelly and Sherilynn Fenn. Christopher Atkins and James Spader were also beauties too.

She seems nice.

She was pushed by an ambitious and later bat-shit crazy mother.

How she survived it all is a miracle.

Whats not to get about the controversy? She was an underage girl in a sexually suggestive commercial. It would never fly now.

It was basically glorifying pedophilia

Man the 70s and 80s were amazing

It seemed okay for some reason in the 60s to 90s to sexualize teenagers. I don't know if it was the Foucaltian Postmodern Sexual Revolution mumbo jumbo.

Aside from Brooke Shields who is the most infamous and sexualized even as a child with that disgusting Playboy shoot and Pretty Baby. You had films like Lolita both 60s and 90s version. You had all those European art films. You had all those teen magazines that sexualized teen boys with racy spreads like Leif Garrett, David Cassidy, Donnie Osmond etc. Also Phoebe Cates in Fast Times,, Christian Slater in The Name of The Rose and Matt Dillon in Little Darlings.

Even in the 90s you had Natalie Portman, Brad Renfro, Britney Spears, Usher, Jessica Biel, IMX, Destiny's Child, Aaliyah, Christina Aguilera and Justin Timberlake sexualized before they turned 18.

Yeah. Tiger Beat etc is before my time but I watched the Outsiders TV series a while back and googled some of the actors. One of those mags had Jay R. Ferguson posing in a crop top. He looked 13 or 14.

I like Brooke Shields. She seems a good sort. It’s amazing she turned out as functional and level-headed as she has. Still a very beautiful woman.

I forgot that Rosario Dawson was only 15 in the movie Kids. But her parents were on set keeping an eye on her. Apparently Larry Clark did have the parents around when shooting the film which makes it less creepy but still...

I liked the Martha Plimpton ones better.

My Calvin Klein ads were the best, yo!

She's definitely well-spoken. She and Chris Atkins. Kinda sad how many young stars today talk like airheads

Mark Wahlberg is a trash person but fuck he was sexy.

Because she was all ratted up like a teenage Jezebel.

I think young Christopher Atkins was equally if not more beautiful. And he was generous enough to show us everything too

No. Not remotely.

R29 He looks beautiful in that picture too. Do you think there is a male counterpart to Brooke's beauty?

No. He’s cute. Not beautiful.

Rodney Harvey was luscious. Impressive eyebrows and full lips, like Brooke.

Jon Erik Hexum and Brooke would have looked amazing together. I think he likes shorties, though.

*liked

I remember reading an article around 1980 describing how people age. They showed how Brooke would look in 30 years - and it’s almost dead on. I think it had to do with her jaw being wide and other facial features - at 17 the features looked gorgeous and refined but as it filled out looked masculine.

I love Brooke and have a ton of respect for her. Never a bad thing said and seems like a really decent human being - which is a huge achievement.

I think Ilan Mitchell-Smith was beautiful. Especially in that scene in Weird Science where he comes out wearing a jockstrap and a crop top.

His film career was extremely brief but he was in three 80s cult classics, The Wild Life, Weird Science and The Chocolate War. Ilan's now an academic with published material, so intelligent too.

You like mild sort of faces, I see.

R37 I don't know about mild but probably faces that are emotionally "expressive" or "warm" indicative of a pleasant or humorous personality.

Another women I think were absolutely striking were Vanity, Jennifer Connelly and Vanessa Williams.

Rob Lowe seemed like the counterpart to Brooke Shields. Way too pretty to be taken seriously as an actor until later on when he got into TV roles.

I remember watching this old movie called Class where Rob Lowe's MILF mother played by Jacqueline Bissett sleeps with his best friend played by Andrew McCarthy. John Cusack plays one of the male classmates. Anyway, the premise of a cougar sleeping with a likely underage schoolboy would not fly today.

R11, put down the crack pipe.

I was at her 16th birthday at Studio 54. She was beyond beautiful.

Ezra Miller and Amy Shumer had a sex scene in a comedy a few years ago.

Rob Lowe is a good choice. Unlike Brooke, he seems like a creep.

In that Rob Lowe sex tape (the legal one). He looks like he is sucking the guy off but it's so blurry (80s VHS - to be expected) it's still hard to tell for sure.

Keanu also reached his ultimate beauty in the 90s. My Own Private Idaho, Speed, Dracula and Matrix captured him in his glory.

Keanu often has bloatface.

He and Rob did a movie together with Patrick Swayze too called Youngblood

Best thing about Youngblood was Rob's ass.

Rob Lowe seems to be like the Alain Delon of the 80s. Beautiful on the outside, rotten on the inside. Knowing society will treat him better for his looks and taking full advantage of it. There are beautiful people who are lovely and kind but also ones who are selfish and sociopathic. Beauty is an accident of genetics and doesn't reflect your personality. Oscar Wilde warned us about this with The Picture of Dorian Gray. Rob is a Republican/conservative despite likely sleeping his way for roles and (most likely) sucking his friend's dick in that sex tape.

R44 90s Keanu was hot. He's never been involved in a scandal all these years?

River Phoenix was beautiful too especially with short hair since it showed his facial structure better. His eccentric but charming personality added a lot too. Though he had bad acne so not "perfect" perfect. However he looked pretty bad before he died due to losing too much weight.

Phoenix was a beautiful, sensitive actor. He wasn't a great beauty, visually.

R20 - I used to buy those Tiger Beat type mags in the 70's. I couldn't understand why they always seemed to featur Leif Garrett - I didn't know who he was and thought he was really strange looking.

I used to be in love with Rob Lowe. Such a gorgeous young man he was. Everyone I knew found him beautiful.

A few years ago I showed a female friend a film with him when he was a teen and she was taken aback by his beauty. She knew him as Parks and Recreation Rob Lowe or The West Wing Lowe, never watched any teenage Lowe stuff.

Were any of you OUTRAGED that Rob deigned to date Melissa Gilbert?

Rob Lowe is beautiful but boring as an actor. People who look like him do not need to have any talent, skill or likable personality because everything is handed to them. Rob came from a boring middle class household too. Henry Cavill and Matt Bomer are also gorgeous but boring as dry paint as well.

River Phoenix had an insane and terrible life that sounds almost fictional. It's no wonder he was so good at acting, he was used to being in so many bizarre situations in real life that everything in movies was believable to him. He just happened to also being the most attractive of his homely siblings which helped but he didn't even know he was attractive and frequently dressed sloppy which added to his charm

R52 Non-threatening feminine-looking boys tend to be popular with tween girls. Usually they age out of it and start preferring more masculine looking guys.

Also, I read a theory about birth control pills effects on women's attraction. Apparently women when they are on the pill favor feminine men because they aren't as interested in sex and want more emotional relationship. However I really just think women in general tend to be more flexible and have a higher tolerance of odd-looking men if they like other qualities about them.

Men on the other hand, I think we tend to be very visual and very rigid about what we like and the higher sex drive.

The differences in the emphasis women and men place on looks disappear when women and men have similar economic power.

Rob Lowe was very funny in "Behind the Candelabra." He was also effective in "Wayne's World."

[Quote] he didn't even know he was attractive

There is no actor in the world who doesn't know where they fit in the pecking order. Every actor knows their "type."

R59 I don't think life is like high school and given that River Phoenix was forced into acting and only did it as a filial obligation, he probably didn't pay too much attention to that Hollywood bullshit

Nonsense. Actors go through a million auditions. It's impossible not to attend to what people think of you - every aspect of you from appearance, voice, personality etc.

You're just being a fangirl by deifying your fave.

R61 I'm a guy. How others perceive you and how you perceive yourself do not align. That's why we have body dysmorphia and that's why we have narcissism as well. I know many attractive people who think they aren't attractive and even if they hear praise from others they will deny it or seem puzzled. People who tend to be abused or bullied in childhood tend to never see themselves as beautiful even if they blossom into their looks. The human mind is a funny thing like that. Same relates to intelligence with the Dunning-Kruger effect which many stupid people think they are smart (the current climate in The US proves that this is even more common than ever). And of course, many smart people think they aren't smart and they tend to ask the most questions and are always trying to find new information.

[quote]I remember seeing her in The Blue Lagoon and thinking “what a gorgeous girl”.

Something was wrong with me, I saw parts of Blue Lagoon and was captivated by the scenery. I watched until the end so I could see where ii was filmed. It was filmed on Turtle Island.

It was her age that made the commercials controversial. If a grown woman had done them nobody would have batted an eye, but this was a heavily painted up very young teen girl making those sexually suggestive comments. But that was Brooke Shield's career back then. She was promoted as a sex symbol before she was even 13 years old. I think she was only ten when her crazy mother had her photographed in some "artistic" nude photos, which featured a heavily made up Brooke Shields, her nude child's body out there for the world to see. Later on Shields and her mother sued to keep the pictures from being displayed ever again, but they lost the lawsuit due to the fact that Teri Shields had signed a release form and therefore had no legal recourse. What the hell kind of mother lets her 10 year old daughter get photographed in the nude? I thought Teri Shields should have been arrested for child abuse. But hey, it was the seventies. Anything was ok back then.

You said "he didn't even know he was attractive," not "he never felt attractive." Those are two different things.

R57 If men and women ever become economic equals would that shift the standard of attractiveness? Evolutionary-wise, it seems a lot of women evolved to find men who are bigger and stronger more attractive and also men who are wealthier and successful attractive as well. Which makes perfect sense. But it seems that because men have historically been in power, women are more tolerant of men's physical imperfections because they have been indoctrinated with the idea men are innately of a higher status so their looks should not matter. While because heterosexual men have historically held dominance of society, they pushed the idea of women being more beautiful hence women place more emphasis on their physical beauty. So it seems expected that the woman must always look more beautiful than the guy in pairings.

R65 Whatever.

"I love Brooke and have a ton of respect for her. Never a bad thing said and seems like a really decent human being."

I don't think she's that "decent." She bearded for the child molesting Michael Jackson for years. In fact, she was the one who pursued HIM. She begged him to take her to the Grammys with him. LaToya Jackson said MJ asked her to intervene, tell Shields to back off, but she said no, it's your problem, you deal with it. He ended up taking her (and Emmanuel Lewis) as his date. I guess she adored the publicity of being Michael Jackson's "girlfriend"; he was maybe the most popular entertainer in the world at that time. The thrill started to wear off as Jackson became more and more bizarre and the sexual abuse allegations against him started to heat up. When asked how she felt about him she previously would say "I love him dearly" but then refused to comment about him at all. She distanced herself from him and hadn't had anything to do with him for year, but that didn't stop her from popping up to eulogize him at his televised memorial service. I think all this says a lot about Brooke Shield's character, which doesn't seem very admirable to me.

I think Brooke also had empathy for Michael because they both were exploited as kid stars and she identified strongly with him. Even Barbra Streisand said MJ could not help it and deserved sympathy and Macaulay Culkin defended him. Hollywood people in general tend to not only think they are above the law but also live in this alternative postmodern reality of debauchery that they grow so accustomed to it and it seems so normal that they don't understand why regular people would be shocked by it. Hell, Brooke probably even thought MJ was tame and innocent compared to the other weirdos she was surrounded with. Leif Garret said in his autobiography that MJ asked him once how to masturbate when they were both teens and he gave MJ a porn mag and sent him away.

Could not help what?

Shields was genuinely attracted to MJ at the time. This was around his Thriller phase and he was the biggest star in the whole world. His talent and work ethic was a turn on for her.

She also was into George Michael for a while and went on a date with him and then later had the same attitude about him that she had about MJ.

Michael Jackson also was good-looking before he destroyed his face (should have stopped after surgery number one) and bleached (yes he had vitiligo but still doesn't turn your skin to look like that).

George Michael was handsome until he got fat and the drugs and drinking destroyed his looks.

[Quote]You had all those teen magazines that sexualized teen boys with racy spreads

Were they that racy? They used to be at supermarket checkouts in the 70s. I never opened them because I was too embarrassed and didn't have a sister or good friend who had them. The covers were such innocent puppy love stuff. Donny Osmond, Shaun Cassidy, Mark Hamill. Peter Frampton's open shirt was as racy as the covers got. What do you mean by sexualized boys? What was I missing inside?

I think Shields was genuinely attracted to Michael Jackson's CELEBRITY, not him. He was always a weirdo.

As for George Michaels, she bearded for him, too. I think it was his celebrity that attracted her too. And he was a good looking guy to be seen with, even though he was a flaming homo.

R72 This would not fly today. I think Chris Knight was like 15 here.

R72 I think they can be considered “racy” when it’s a teen boy wearing shorts and a crop top.

By today’s standards that’s just “gay” but back then it was a way to get them to show a lot of skin while not fully exploiting them

Another example is 17 year old Justin Timberlake.

And don’t get me started on how 16/17 year old Britney Spears was overly sexualized

Brad Renfro owns this. Apt Pupil and all those photos. Granted he did look older than his age. He was like the male Natalie Portman.

Brad Renfro was used and abused. Poor thing.

God. Milfs loved teenage Timberlake.

Timberlake is the definition of a butterface to me. I never thought he was beautiful in the face but I loved his hot body between 2003 to 2012. He looked sexy in Friends with Benefits. He looks ugly now which is his karma for thinking his corny thin-voiced ass was legitimately an heir to Michael Jackson and Prince and of course his shitty treatment Britney and Janet.

JC is the only person in NSYNC I think was good-looking. A lot of girls I know admitted to loving Lance the most (WTF!).

Anyway, if JT looked like he did in Friends with Benefits during his NSYNC tenure I would have crushed on him too.

I was talking more about Tiger Beat back my adolescence and early teens (76-80). By Timberlake and Spears' time, yeah, the sexualization was full tilt. I was a pretty dorky, shy, not popular kid so I wasn't the most aware of what my peers were up to.

That picture of the Brady kid, blech. Were pre-prepubescent girls/13-14 year olds really into scrawny bodies? I'd be the last to know. I can see how it would appeal to a gayling coming to understand his sexuality or, shudder, pedos.

Ummmm r19, I dunno maybe because teens WERE having sex, even pursuing adults instead of being "groomed" like some would like to suggest.

R83 Is it okay for adults to profit off of teenager's sex appeal and sell it to millions of consumers? Turning them into a mere object to be ogled and consumed. The human brain doesn't finish maturing until 25 and someone in their teen years is still a child mentally in many ways. I think older people should be protecting the young rather than taking sexy photos of them and publishing them in the mass media. We wonder why so many people have warped views on sexuality too. Nobody denies teenagers have sex but they should learn about in a more organic way not from the manufactured and pornographied imagery they see in the media.

Brooke Shields was into MJ/George Michael like Debbie Reynolds was into Tab Hunter

Did Brooke fuck Chris Atkins, Martin Hewitt or James Spader? The hot guys she was starring in films with

No. She fucked Dean Cain.

Dean is hot despite being a gun nut Republican.

Didn't they make Elizabeth Taylor out to be a "sexy siren" when she was still prepubescent? Seems like the entertainment industry has been overly sexualizing kids much longer than the 60s/70s.

Rob Lowe's parents had been models. Apparently, even prettier than he was. A long ago colleague went to De Pauw with them.

Interesting, sometimes attractive people make ugly kids or ugly people make attractive kids. Genetics are funny like that.

His brother didn’t come out as pretty as him and his poor sons didn’t either, despite him believing they are better looking than he was at their ages.

Brooke looks different as an adult. Both Brookes are beautiful. They young one was a gorgeous model. The current one is handsome and not taking the plastic sugary route makes her more beautiful. Wrinkles and all, make her more attractive than any Hollywood plastic woman in her 50's. She looks like old money, not botoxed Hollywood trash.

one of the best models ever BTW.

It’s all about which features you get from each parent.

And in some cases, you get some features from someone further back in your bloodline.

My cousin looks nothing like my aunt but looks exactly like our great grandma.

"Did Brooke fuck Chris Atkins, Martin Hewitt or James Spader? The hot guys she was starring in films with."

If you believe her, no. She claimed she was a virgin until she was 22. And she lost her virginity to Dean Cain.

His TV son came out handsome AF.

[Quote] despite him believing they are better looking than he was at their ages.

He doesn't think that, the lying ass.

Rob seems like a narcissist. I bet even if his sons came out more beautiful than him, he would die from jealousy.

Meg Tilly referenced a male co-star who refused to wear a modesty pouch for their sex scene. It was most likely Lowe.

[quote] Why were the Brooke Shields Calvin Klein Jeans commercials so controversial back then?

Even a decade later Calvin Klein still used the same sexually exploitive message in his Obsession campaign where jailbait models and Kate Moss whispered the perfume's name to the camera like it's a forbidden fruit.

The adults didn't like that a designer used sex to make his product look cool to hormonal teenagers.

Was he really targeting teenagers?

r101, you think Calvin Klein was in the mom jeans business? And Marky Mark was shilling CK underwear to senior citizens?

I would suggest he was using to teenagers to target people with an actual income, i.e. 18 to 34.

*young people

Teenagers had lots of income. Mommy's and daddy's income.

CK was targeting white Upper. Middle Class to Rich peoples teenagers. And it worked. He was huge with white teens (and minority teens) from affluent backgrounds.

True r106. CK was HUGE in the 90s with upper middle class white teens.

I remember Abercrombie and Fitch and Hollister also used jailbait models too. They even had A&F Quarterly which was mostly softcore gay porn with muscular teens and twins. It seemed like they were mostly targeting teen girls and gay boys with that

^ I meant to say twinks but they did have a ton of twin models too.

Back in the 80s and 90s teens had some money on their own. Allowance and doing the odd jobs like babysitting, mowing neighbors' lawns, newspaper delivery, etc. I believe it started with the early 90s when companies targeted teenagers beyond toys.

[quote] They even had A&F Quarterly which was mostly softcore gay porn with muscular teens and twins.

Shot by Bruce Weber. They were more coffee table art books selling an image branding lifestyle to their teenage / college freshmen customers.

A&F Quarterly was one step removed from gay porn.

Teens are big into coffee table books?

Gay ones were, r112.

R110 It depends on the demographic too. White upper middle-class preppy suburban teens would eat that crap up. But many were interested in the hip-hop street fashion too hence baggy pants, jerseys and gold chains. Many different teen subcultures. It seems more homogenized now especially thanks to social media and 4 media companies owning everything and easily forcing shit down our throats more.

[quote]White upper middle-class preppy suburban teens would eat that crap up. But many were interested in the hip-hop street fashion too hence baggy pants, jerseys and gold chains.

White upper middle-class teens were NOT doing the wigger thing. They looked down on other teens who did that, who tended to be lower middle class.

R115 By the late 90s and post-2000s, hip-hop fashion was pretty mainstream. But I grew up in a small town community that ranged from upper to lower class and I knew many well-off white kids listening to rap and trying to act "street".

R115 false. By mid 90s the hip hop thing was seen as cool to many young white people. Back then many white teens viewed black teens as “hip” and “cool”.

In modern day white teens are more racist than they were 30 years ago.

In the 90s in affluent preppy white communities dressing and acting like a wigger was definitely lower-class. It was looked down on.

And yet, go to a rap concert and the majority of the audience will be young whites.

Mark Wahlberg was from the streets and helped popularize “wigger” culture. Vanilla Ice also, but he faded fast, while Marky Mark never went away because of his acting career taking off.

Marky Mark’s Calvin Klein campaign was the first ever male underwear ads of its kind to be broadcast on TV. He was also the first male underwear model to be plastered all over the world on billboards, in just his white underwear. It made him a star, and also gave CK underwear a 40% boost in sales from the previous year. That is why he meant so much to them and they paid him so much. He was bringing in money like no other male model did for them prior.

R118 Yep because of racism. Those Aryan Orange County/Westchester type of communities. That's also why ball culture which was mostly black and Hispanic and working class would take on a lot of high fashion brands and rappers took on preppy/upmarket brands too. As a way to take something that was defined by racism and exclusivity. The Tommy Hilfiger rumor about the brand being angry at black teens for wearing it come to mind too

R119 even movies about rappers.

When I went to see Straight Outta Compton, about 95% of our audience (and it was packed) were white people. Almost all males, too. A lot of white male groups of friends went to see that.

Eminem was the final step to making hip-hop completely accessible to white communities and even globally in Europe and Australia. Eminem was a sex symbol to many white girls as well.

It's different now with affluent white kids. Many of them are in sportswear/activewear all the time. Back in the 90s the preppy look was still prevalent.

Later the urban fashion trend got replaced by the metrosexual trend where guys like Cristiano Ronaldo and David Beckham promoted high end brands (including Calvin Klein) to younger men like never before.

Tommy Hilfiger even closed his store in Brooklyn years ago because it was so popular with black and Hispanics. He didn’t want them wearing his clothing because he felt it “lowered” his brands image.

Now with all that has been happening in the world over the past few years he decided to reopen a store in Brooklyn again and even used mostly black and Hispanic models to promote it.

Hypocrite.

Anyway the point I was making with R114 was that there were more teen subcultures even with the affluent and middle class. You had the ones wearing CK/A&F and others wearing street brands like Ecko and Phat Farm. You also had skater kids wearing Supreme and Zoo York. The emo/scene, the punk and the goth. It seems like everything has merged into one homogenous look that combines elements of everything I listed. Billie Eilish is a walking example of someone who is half hip-hop street and half-scene and emo.

Billie Eilish seems to wear the same outfit all the time.

Billie has the scene dyed hair and dark emo type lyrics with the jersey and bagging sweats and trap sound production. She's like Avril Lavigne meets trap/Soundcloud star.

Very few could reach Brooke's doll-like beauty. Jennifer Connolly and Heather Graham were close. There were other girls who came later that were stunning in a doll-like way like Mila Kunis who Brooke appropriately played her mom on That 70s Show.

Mila Kunis is doll like but also kind of piggy.

Mila was very beautiful like a painting. I agree she's a bit cherubic and not as elegant and sophisticated looking like Brooke was

Jennifer Connolly rivaled Brooke and her beauty lasted longer too. Still stunning in "A Beautiful Mind" and "Dark City"

Did Brooke ever sing in Japanese?

R134 Jennifer manages to sound beautiful and cute despite her obvious poor grasp of the language.

Alyssa Milano was a huge pop star in Japan. She tried in the US with Teen Steam but that was a cringefest. I guess because she was cute and "exotic", Alyssa got signed onto a J-pop label even though she can't sing at all. Alyssa had 5 albums in Japan. She seems extremely embarrassed by this and never brings it up. Yet thankfully YouTube has all the evidence of this.

Were all Alyssa's music videos shot on videotape?

Japan is infamously low-budget and outdated when it comes to film production. All of her videos look like they were made on shoestring budgets.

Alyssa's Jpop career is so hilariously embarrassing that she likely avoids the topic. It's on par with Mark Wahlberg as "Marky Mark". This video is hilarious, she's singing live and her backup dancers are putting so much effort and she's just rhythmless trying to dance. She's cute as a button though.

She still has more presence than Dua Lipa.

Because she's enthusiastic, cheerful and trying her best. A lot of stars today act bored, apathetic and rather ungrateful for some reason.

Marky Mark only had one real hit and Loleatta Holloway's "Love Sensation" sample is what made that song. That's the only reason why it was successful.

For people too young to remember, Marky Mark did not have a huge string of hits. It was really only Good Vibrations.

Marky Mark was a massive star.

Marky Mark was a media star, but he wasn't a huge recording artist.

Wahlberg was pretty much a joke pre Boogie Nights.

R144 false. He was beloved worldwide.

Mahky Mahk was good for giving gay guys boners and jack-off material with his exercise tape, He even toured gay clubs because he knew his target demographic.

Calvin Klein ads and music videos. When he became Mark Wahlberg he became boringly straight-oriented despite still showing skin from time to time.

The comments on this video are mostly gay men LOL

The majority of his fan base were straight white women. He appealed to all. His manager at the time even said he had a massive female fan base, gay fanbase and even straight male fanbase. He was popular. Whether you liked him or not.

Mark’s performance in FEAR was critically acclaimed. Even critics who trashed the film praised him in it.

Marky Mark was a joke as a pop / rap star whose signature move was to drop his trousers on stage. He got more credit for his acting that came after.

R147 I really doubt this was true. Most people don't care about Marky Mark. He only had one single. Hell Vanilla Ice seemed bigger and is still referenced as a joke and meme.

People know Mark Wahlberg from Three Kings, Boogie Nights, Ted, The Departed but almost no one gives a shit about Marky Mark except gay guys who found him hot like me haha.

Mark Wahlberg has absolutely no talent. His good performances were miracles of directors. Everyone knows he's a scumbag too. He was hot as fuck though.

R150 are you stupid? Only gays liked him? Only gays weren’t making his films hundreds of millions.

Moron.

Marky Mark as a musician sold out shows to... mostly white girls. His audiences were almost all female.

Brooke Shield's beauty peaked in her early teen years then went steadily downhill. As she aged she looked more and more like a tranny. The novelist Scott Spencer, who wrote the novel "Endless Love", was on the set of the movie version of his novel (the movie turned out to be dreadful). He recalled hearing Teri Shields, ever appraising of Brooke's appearance, tell Brooke her face was starting to look "boxy", which annoyed Brooke. But Teri Shields was right; her face DID look boxy in her later years.

R151 I didn't know Mark Wahlberg of all people had stans on this site? Yeah he was a teen idol who had popularity with teenage girls most likely due to his association with New Kids On The Block and being cute with a nice body. However I don't think his film career had anything to do with Marky Mark.

Also what straight men liked him? Maybe ones that wanted to be beat up. Straight guys were most likely listening to real artists like Tupac, Biggie, A Tribe Called Quest, NWA, Public Enemy, Dr. Dre and Big Daddy Kane.

His Calvin Klein ads proved him marketable. His racist antics were never a secret either.

His early role in Basketball Diaries got him attention and Fear was a blockbuster hit but by that time he was MARK WAHLBERG and I don't think everyone made that connection to Marky Mark unless they followed him. Boogie Nights got him serious acclaim by film critics and he got serious roles after that made him a household name.

I think it's safe to say Marky Mark was an alter ego that enjoyed a brief moment of popularity and he had to reinvent himself as Mark Wahlberg and started over a new page.

You all speak like people don’t know Mark was a CK underwear model. He’s their most infamous one. And he still speaks of and acknowledges Marky Mark.

R155 It's good he acknowledges that part of his past of being a stripper who rapped too is what got him famous. Though he ignores the other parts of his past that we all know he did.

R156 people change.

R157 He appears to be Republican and criticized actors for being "political" which really translates to "stop spouting liberal nonsense and trying to change the world for the better". Oh and he also said in regards to the past "I forgive myself". Yep really. He tried to get pardoned for his past crimes just to get an alcohol license for Wahlburgers. His brother is also on a show, Blue Bloods that glorifies the police and has white supremacy undertones. I can't believe on a gay site, we are defending a straight man who couldn't a damn about gay rights and admitted to liking Trump.

Mark still speaks about Good Vibrations with a smile. He has no shame or embarrassment with his music career. He probably appreciates it.

And to people saying he didn’t have a string of hits... he only released one album and 3 singles. Of course he didn’t have a big discography. But 2 out of 3 singles cracked top 10, and 1 of those reached #1 all over the world. The album went Platinum.

That’s a strong debut and finale all on one lol

He speaks about GV here. And yea, it’s a song that still gets played at games etc. idk how DL acts like it’s some long forgotten song. It’s far from.

This was 2 years ago.

R159 I feel bad for white rappers. It took until Eminem for them to be taken seriously because Vanilla Ice and Marky Mark made such a joke of the genre and were clearly just exploiting black culture and music to make money. Maybe they were popular with white teen girls for being cute guys but they made it hard for that genre of music to be taken seriously. Elvis at least admired and respected black artists and was passionate about what he did. Mark just hopped on that culture for profit and while he may reminiscence of it, he damaged the reputation that artists like The Beastie Boys were trying hard to prove that white boys could have soul and rhyme.

Good Vibrations is a good song. I don’t get why DL is always trashing it.

Mark dissing Kate Moss. He didn’t really enjoy working with her I guess.

The only good thing about Good Vibrations is the beautiful soulful voice of Loleatta Hollaway. Not the visually pleasing but utterly untalented white boy who can't rap for shit.

Speaking of beautiful untalented people. Carmen Electra.

I love Prince but what was he thinking trying to make Carmen a star? Was her pussy that magical that it hypnotized him?

She did become a star for a brief moment post Baywatch

Modeling and acting was fine for Carmen. But her music is terrible. Prince's proteges tend to be pretty but untalented vessels he happens to be fucking that he also wants to use to show off his newest production (Susie, Vanity, Apples, Mayte, etc) but Carmen takes the cake being the most talent-free

I expect Prince enjoyed the idea of making a recording star of someone without musical talent. It meant his talent was the only necessary talent.

My mother used to make fun of Vanity.

Mark discusses his past in music here and what would get him to do music again.

Maybe one day he will release a new single.

At least Mark had that singer in the video. Most wouldn’t feature the singer in their video, but he did.

I like Vanity as she is stunning, had a funny and sweet personality and endured hell and back. She could not sing or dance at all. But she was a magnetic actress. Purple Rain would have been better with her as Appolonia while beautiful had no charisma and was an awful actress.

Vanity should been a top model but her drug abuse and terrible taste in men ruined her and then she became an Evangelical after almost ODing and had a religious awakening. But I can't blame her she need a coping mechanism and inner-peace. Prince was devastated by her death.

Mark’s second single, “Wildside” was a top 10 hit.

Boy, did THIS thread run off the rails! I thought it was about Brooke Shields, not Rob Lowe, Mark Wahlberg, Kate Moss, Christopher Atkins, Jennifer Connelly, Alyssa Milano, Brad Renfro, Justin Timberlake, Vanity...

Apollonia was the worst singer ever. Her singing in Purple Rain was headache-inducing. Prince had to overproduce Apollonia 6 album to cover up her atrocious singing. She's on par with J. Lo with worst singer ever.

[quote]idk how DL acts like it’s some long forgotten song. It’s far from.

Nobody said that.

OK back on topic. Brooke is singing! Not too bad. She looks great!

Brooke Shields on Leif Garrett's Variety Hour. Leif was a natural comedic actor and should have done a sitcom because he can't sing. Brooke is way better at comedy than drama, her deadpan sarcastic delivery is great.

Vanity had real star quality, and she was absolutely gorgeous. Terribly tragic about the drug abuse, without it she'd have had a bigger career.

If Vanity coulda been, she woulda been. And that's show business.

R172 Wack as fuck. No flow. No cadence. Very flat and monotone. Marky Mark is not a natural rapper at all. Ice-T and LL Cool J had deadpan deliveries they were actual rappers with flow, rhythm and skill. Mark sounds awkward like reading a script. Only positive of this video is Mark's shirtless body

Prince was a better rapper than Mark Wahlberg.

She woulda been without the drugs.

Marky Mark was the definition of rough trade. Gay guys knew it instinctively, but it probably went over the heads of straight people.

I was about 15 when this picture appeared in Vanity Fair (which I read religiously every month, little gayling that I was). I cannot even tell you how many loads I spanked out to this. Back in those pre-internet days you had to take what you could get.

Mark Wahlberg was a sex object. He was only good for being hot slut and old gay men funded his career kinda like Joe D'Alessandro in a way. Oh and had his brother not have been part of NKOTB then he most likely would not have been able to get into rap as Marky Mark. He also would have been in prison for his criminal behavior and/or ended up in porn since he loves showing his body. But for some reason, he got a Hollywood career and won't go away despite being mediocre at everything and constantly being cancelled online. But for sure, if he came around today, he would been an Instagram ho with an OnlyFans.

[Quote] She woulda been without the drugs.

How many successful acts in the 1980s had bad drug problems? They were still successes because they had talent.

Success and talent aren't correlated though. Success is based on luck.

Luck plays a part. Add talent and the right material & production, and you have a winner.

👆😄 This thread has gone off the rails!

Brooke's mother was an alcoholic. I recall reading that 13 year old Brooke staged an intervention. This was around the time or shortly after of all the controversial material she appeared in. I imagine Teri's judgment wasn't the best. And/or she was desperate for money.

Vanity's issue wasn't necessarily her lack of talent. Vanity's issue was Motown Records screwing her over and not knowing how to market her and giving her shitty songs too. Vanity had the perfect look, raw sexuality and charisma to be successful in the 80s. The 80s was filled with so many untalented pop stars because of MTV. I mean sure Madonna had amazing songs but her musical talent wasn't her strong suit and then you had mediocre singers like Pebbles, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul getting hits.

If Vanity swallowed her pride and stayed with Prince to finish Purple Rain, she could have been bigger. Apollonia was hot but sucked really bad. Vanity would have stole the show in Purple Rain and it would have been also the perfect vehicle for her music career.

And yet Brooke maintains that she was never sexually abused. I guess Teri did something right.

There's a reason no Prince protege was ever massive. Even if they had talent, they'd have to compete with Prince the recording artist. And Prince the writer/producer was going to give his best to his own recording career. Stevie Wonder is the same.

Apparently Teri was very protective of Brooke and was always around her during filming and photoshoots. She had a "look at my underage daughter but don't touch!" mindset I guess

[quote]Vanity's issue was Motown Records screwing her over and not knowing how to market her

Teena Marie had the exact same problem with Motown. She should've been a big star but they had no idea how to market or promote her.

[quote] The 80s was filled with so many untalented pop stars because of MTV. I mean sure Madonna had amazing songs but her musical talent wasn't her strong suit and then you had mediocre singers like Pebbles, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul getting hits.

[quote] The 80s was filled with so many untalented pop stars because of MTV. I mean sure Madonna had amazing songs but her musical talent wasn't her strong suit and then you had mediocre singers like Pebbles, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul getting hits.

[quote] The 80s was filled with so many untalented pop stars because of MTV. I mean sure Madonna had amazing songs but her musical talent wasn't her strong suit and then you had mediocre singers like Pebbles, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul getting hits.

I agree with you, but my god those women seem like mega-talents compared to the absolute trash we have as pop singers now.

BTW sorry I don't know what happened with the two quotes above.

Yes, r192. I read excepts of her autobiography and they were very close. She supervised everything. Even if something happened when she was missing for a while, it sounded like they had the sort of relationship where Brooke would tell her what happened. And there would be hell to pay. Pedos abuse low-hanging fruit.

R196 I actually liked all of the women's music. Madonna's an okay singer. I'm a fan of Janet but she isn't a great singer and you can barely hear her though I rather listen to her than most modern female pop stars that make my ears hurt LOL. Prince's protoges though ouch my ears! Apollonia ruined parts of Purple Rain. He did have some great protoges though like Sheila E and Andy Allo (real musicians), Tamar (great singer) and Rosie Gaines (amazing singer)

"The Glamorous Life" is one of the best songs to come out of the 80s. That song was so fierce.

Whatever about Madonna's live vocals, her voice recorded better than this.

Vanity couldn't sing. She kinda sounds like LaToya in that song. LaToya actually has a lot of good songs though believe it or not. Her early stuff is very Prince-sounding too. LaToya could have been in Purple Rain too. They were looking for a light-skinned chick. Jennifer Beals was also considered and while she was beautiful, I can't picture her with Prince.

La Toya even did a Prince cover. Prince had a thing for La Toya too but I know Papa Joe would not have let that happen. Janet had to sneak out and get married to James DeBarge which Joe had them annul it.

I wonder if Meg Tilly is going to reveal on one of her chat videos that she was up for Purple Rain.

Prince dated black women?

Vanity, Manuela, Sheila E, Jill Jones and Andy Allo are half-black, Mayte was Afro-Latina (Puerto Rican) and Nona Gaye, Susan Moonsie, Judith Hill, Damaris Lewis and Cat Glover were black. The only white women he dated where Kim Basinger and Carmen Electra. And these are only the public relationships.

Prince had crushes on Alicia Keys, Beyonce and La Toya.

[Quote] Mark’s performance in FEAR was critically acclaimed. Even critics who trashed the film praised him in it.

Probably because he wasn't doing much acting.

Craziest ADD thread ever. Always appreciate pics of young rough trade Marky Mark though.

Vanity would have been fine if she hadn't met Nikki Sixx.

Did you see Vanity's appearance on Joan Rivers' daytime talk show? The woman had barely two brain cells. She needed religion. She could never have navigated the business successfully.

R177 - that's really terrible, I could only watch a few minutes. Reminded me of every other cheesy variety show from that era - don't know how we all survived them.

[quote]You had all those teen magazines that sexualized teen boys with racy spreads like Leif Garrett, David Cassidy, Donnie Osmond etc. Also Phoebe Cates in Fast Times,, Christian Slater in The Name of The Rose and Matt Dillon in Little Darlings.

How is it different now? Maybe you just stopped looking? Even younger kids than that are regularly sexualized by Hollywood today.

Bailee Madison and then-boyfriend Alex Lange 18 and 17 at the time.

Also, a lot of kids sexual themselves now. On Tik Tok, Instagram, etc.

*sexualize

This is where it gets tricky. Humans are sexual creatures. Once you reach adolescence you became sexually aware and self-conscious about your appearance. We want to be seen as attractive and desirable and establish ourselves in society. Teenagers are filled with hormones and a desire for independence but they lack the mental capacity to understand the long-term consequences of their actions.

Teens who post selfies of themselves are in charge of what they are doing and may not feel it's objectifying. We sexualize attractive people in general. If someone posted a picture of themselves wearing a crop top or a picture of themselves shirtless but were out of shape we would not consider that sexual because it would not be appealing. But regardless of that posting selfies is an act of individual agency. If an adult tells some teen to stand there and have them take these sexy photos for them then that is where it gets exploitative and you remove the agency because the adult is an authority figure telling the kid to look hot for the camera. To objectify is to remove someone's personhood and turn them into a piece of meat.

Brooke Shields was a child who was made into a sex object by adults and she never looked comfortable doing any of the stuff she was made to. Her image was mass-produced for millions of perverted adults to jack off too. She was pre-pubescent child too. It is not even comparable to Britney Spears as she was at least in her late teens and looked like a young adult though still very child-like and infantile.

So if they (teens) don't "feel" like it's exploitative, R214, then it isn't? As long as they make the decision to post the photo (and are attractive/not out of shape) then in spite of their lack of mental capacity, it's not exploitative?

What if the hypothetical teen wants to be photographed by someone else? Choosing to take a selfie is an act of individual agency (again, in spite of the lack of mental capacity) but choosing to be photographed by some other (older) person isn't?

What a convoluted mess we are these days about this. We've gone full Victorian, clutching pearls not only at adults lusting after teens but doing the same over the mere idea of it. So many men I know (gay and straight) will swear up and down they've never been attracted to anyone under 18, no sir, not ever, that's disgusting.

Which isn't to say young people, teens etc. don't need protecting. Of course they do. Age of consent laws exist for a reason. But this whole thing where we all have to pretend that someone 1 day short of their 18th birthday is somehow a child and anyone finding them hot is a pedo is fucking ridiculous. Grow up. And get your rhetoric straight, too, because it's nonsensical as it stands.

R215 Teenagers will do whatever they want whenever they want. Selfies are an example of that. It's the responsibility of the adult to not exploit them. An old-ass photographer taking sexualized pictures of a young teenager isn't something most people would say is okay. Brooke Shields is an extreme example of this with her infamous Playboy pics which were taken when she wasn't even in pubescent stage.

[Quote] An old-ass photographer taking sexualized pictures of a young teenager isn't something most people would say is okay.

Are you talking about Annie Liebowitz (sp?)?

R217 Yes she is questionable. And so was Miley's hippie hillbilly parents for permitting that too.

Who decides if it's "sexualized" R216?

And again, what if the teen WANTS to be photographed? Why is it OK for them to post sexualized photos of themselves if they were taken by themselves, but not taken by someone else?

And if teens' brain are undeveloped, why do you think it's OK to let them make decisions about sexualizing/exploiting themselves? At what age is this acceptable? 16? 14? 13? 12? You want to have this both ways but I don't think you can. Why does who takes the photo matter so much? Surely it's the "loads of 40-somethings are going to be wanking over this" that's the creepy part? And I don't think any of those 40-somethings gives a fuck who took the photo.

R219 As I have said teenagers will do whatever they want. Parents will and have told them not to post sexual images of themselves. And guess what? They do it anyway.

The difference between posting pictures of yourself is 1) you have ownership of the photo, 2) you can delete the photo.

The difference between having a professional photographer have sexualized images of you in the case of Brooke Shields and Miley Cyrus is 1) widely published across the world, 2) you do not have ownership of the photos and cannot easily get them removed.

None of that makes any sense. "They do it anyway." So - what? That makes it OK? Would you accept that argument for a teen choosing to be photographed by a pro photographer? You're not really answering any of my questions, and I think it's because you know you can't. Why is one thing teens will "do anyway" OK with you but not the other thing?

Also, no photo posted to the internet is truly delete-able and that should be one of the first things we tell children before we let them loose online. Photos posted on social media by young teens often quickly go viral, appearing almost instantly in tabloids etc. There's no controlling that once it's out there.

Anyway you're just being evasive and not really engaging so I'm out.

R221 Okay I see what you're saying. But at least we both agree it's gross to exploit minors.

Teens who post selfies of themselves are in charge of what they are doing and may not feel it's objectifying.

But the platforms they post on are created and controlled by adults. So adults are still providing them with a means to objectify themselves that wouldn't be available to them otherwise. In a sense they're still being exploited by adults.