What is the verb agreement for people who go by "They"?
"They" Sam Smith was interviewed on CBS This Morning today talking about his great struggle to be accepted as a 'queer'. The old man interviewer seemed to be terrified when teasing the story, making sure to refer to Smith as "They". But what's the verb agreement for this stuff?
Is it "They is....going to the store"? Or is it "They are....going to the store"? It's all so confusing. Before it's over, we're all gonna need to retake junior high English and grammar lessons.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||11/21/2020|
They be. I be, you be, we be they be. Be is the universal being verb for all pronouns. Past tense, been. I been, you been, we been , they been.
Personally, tell me your fucking name.
Sharmeka is, Sharmeka been, give it to Sharmeka, Sharmeka is for filth, bye Sharmeka. Where Sharmeka go?
|by Anonymous||reply 3||11/19/2020|
I sat through a Zoom session of a mandated Gender Diversity Awareness Training session for work this week, and according to the multiple presenters (more presenters than staff attending), it's whatever the individual decides. It's the same for how we're to address the individual: the individual decides, and informs us.
We're also supposed to share our own preferred pronouns in our e-signature fields. Oh, it's not _obligatory_. But if we don't, we're making the quirky individuals feel conspicuous, and slighted. And that's hurtful.
We are expected to remember every singular quirky expression preferred by each individual quirky person. And if we forget, we're supposed to apologize immediately. The presenters shared personal anecdotes about how hard it is even for them to remember all various forms of address for all of their quirky peers, and how they're always apologizing when they get it wrong.
This shit's exhausting.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||11/19/2020|
The other day I read a news story about a woman who uses “they” who was upset about a group of people (thus, also “they”) that was impossible to follow. “They said that they...etc.” I keep saying, the enbys will be the death of us.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||11/19/2020|
If you are talking about a hypothetical person or someone whose gender you don’t know you always use they are not they is. It is the same rule for non binary people.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||11/19/2020|
Fuck, I had to learn new pronouns and now verbs too? I’m out!
|by Anonymous||reply 7||11/19/2020|
I really need School House Rock to come back and do a catchy little music video about this so I have a go to to figure out what to do.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||11/19/2020|
Be is the only verb you need in these cases.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||11/19/2020|
"This shit's exhausting"
I agree that adding the words "She/Her" to your email signature is just far, far too much to ask! The labor! The anguish! Can you sue?
|by Anonymous||reply 12||11/19/2020|
I propose a new pronoun.
Combine the words she, he and it.
Sam Smith tripped and fell into the only person who likes Sam Smith.
Shit hit the fan.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||11/19/2020|
Remember when you had to conjugate verbs on the blackboard? I wrote hastily and put “he sh it” leaving off the “e” completely unintentionally. Luckily the teacher was very forgiving.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||11/19/2020|
This shit is exhausting.
*Them* shit is exhausting.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||11/19/2020|
“Shit be exhausting” is best!
|by Anonymous||reply 16||11/19/2020|
Sharmeka wins this thread
|by Anonymous||reply 17||11/19/2020|
[quote] ... (more presenters than staff attending) ...
That's hilarious R4. I assume that 100% of staff attended a "mandated" event, but nevertheless were outnumbered by the crowd of presenters that HR saw fit to invite. What a racket!
|by Anonymous||reply 18||11/19/2020|
I am actually fine with a gender neutral pronoun, but “they” is generally used as a plural, so it sounds awkward, impersonal and almost rude. I would prefer that we settle on a new word completely.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||11/19/2020|
OP, what verb did the interviewer use?
|by Anonymous||reply 21||11/19/2020|
As far as I'm concerned, the verb agreement is fuck-off.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||11/19/2020|
What R6 said - I don't understand why this is complicated?
Person 1: "Does X have a partner?"
Person 2: "Yes"
Person 1: "Are they coming to the party?"
Person 2: "I don't know."
Person 3: "Yes, they are."
It's really not that hard.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||11/19/2020|
If "they" can change rules of grammar to suit "their" needs, you should feel free to select any verb tense, singular or plural, you wish.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||11/19/2020|
I do not use pronouns. Just tell me your fucking name.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||11/19/2020|
R19, there's been a singular gender neutral pronoun forever: one.
To each one's own.
From each according to one's ability, to each according to one's needs.
One attends Trump's rallies at one's peril.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||11/19/2020|
One is such a singular sensation on DL...
|by Anonymous||reply 27||11/19/2020|
Good point, R26. I wonder why that hasn't been adopted.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||11/19/2020|
Almost as ridiculous as “teasing the story”, OP.
The Mail Online is responsible for that linguistic atrocity.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||11/19/2020|
How is knowing about other people’s pronouns any more “exhausting” than knowing about their prefixes such as Miss, Mrs and Ms? Or their sexual orientation? Or their religious belief? It’s really not that hard, if you care about people around you and want to be kind to them, or maybe just to avoid some embarrassment.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||11/19/2020|
[quote]One is such a singular sensation on DL...
They has "tits: ten, face: three"
|by Anonymous||reply 31||11/19/2020|
"I agree that adding the words "She/Her" to your email signature is just far, far too much to ask! The labor! The anguish! Can you sue?"
R12, here in the real world, sexism and sexual harassment still exist, and the LAST thing many women want to do, while using email in professional situations, is call attention to their sex. They shouldn't be made to feel "problematic" for simply opting out.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||11/19/2020|
"...we identify as adolescent the furious response to the discovery that others do not perceive you exactly the way you’d like to imagine to yourself. Those who justify aggression as a response to the “violence” of being misrecognized fail to notice that everyone shares this experience on various registers of gender, race, age, class, professional status, nationality, religion, disability, attractiveness — the list goes on.
Rogers Brubaker’s insightful book, Trans: Gender and Race in an Age of Unsettled Identities, takes up the conundrum of why race, which has far less biological grounding than sex, should be socially constructed in the current moment as much more fixed and immutable than gender. But the broader point is that we are all constantly perceived as someone other than who we think we are. Like (or as) language, social roles are systems bigger than any of us, and what we experience as misrecognitions are registers of other people’s perspectives. To try to shut down, rather than understand, those perspectives; to refuse to engage others as people who also have opinions (not to mention feelings) that might not be all about you; to arrogantly dismiss the past and the perspectives of those who have lived through more of it than you; to summon authorities to impose your will rather than trying to work out conflicts in a mutually respectful way — these are adolescent behaviors."
|by Anonymous||reply 33||11/19/2020|
It's 'they are'. I go on Tumblr and everyone there is trans. They all use the traditional plural declension i.e - they are, they have etc
|by Anonymous||reply 34||11/19/2020|
My feeling is that since they feel that their identity is unique to them and to them alone that a singular verb must be used. It should be “they is” to separate from “they are,” but it should still remain “I am, you are, he/she they is.” The whole point of grammar is to avoid confusion.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||11/19/2020|
I find online profiles amusing, because they switch between singular and plural (and these profiles are common in academia):
Forest studies the literature of Appalachia. Specifically, they investigate the intersections of gendered and disabled bodies in the novels of Author A and Author B. In their spare time, Forest enjoys camping and playing with their dog.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||11/19/2020|
R30 Nobody should be required to memorize the minutiae of the everyday life of his or her coworkers.
"if you care about people around you and want to be kind to them"
"Kindness" is a classic excuse that people use to promote The Social Issue Du Jour™. It's quite compelling because it seeks to pull at people's heartstrings. The idea is that only a cruel, evil person would deliberately choose NOT to be kind and respectful to others. Make no mistake: this is not about "kindness", but about exerting control. 90% of the time when we use pronouns like "he", "she" and "they", the people we are talking about are not even present at all. These attention whores are nothing but pathological narcissists. They don't want you to "be kind" - they yearn for the inevitable moment when you commit a "problematic" faux pas so they can savor the moment of humiliating you in front of everyone and potentially destroy your career.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||11/19/2020|
R38 Did Ursula transition and leave the ocean deep?
|by Anonymous||reply 39||11/19/2020|
R23 it is that hard because it's shit, this pronoun crap seems to be big in the UK, it won't be like that here, THEY can all collectively fuck themselves as much as THEY want.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||11/19/2020|
I should think it doesn't seriously matter much to you OP, because in the rare event you're in his presence, you're not going to be using "they" anyway.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||11/19/2020|
R30 Someone’s pronoun is about as hard to “memorize” as someone’s sexuality or religion. You don’t really “memorize”. You just know it after being told. That’s how our brain works, even if you don’t want to know it. And people are about to “humiliate” you and “destroy your career” for misgendering them as likely as you’re about to for hearing anyone say anything homophobic, which is obviously much commoner in real life than misgendering faux pas.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||11/19/2020|
R43 "Someone’s pronoun is about as hard to “memorize” as someone’s sexuality or religion"
Nobody HAS to memorize things. That's my point. You are not entitled to other people's mental labor. Nobody should be contacted by HR for "misgendering" someone, just like how nobody should be contacted by HR because they forgot how many kids a co-worker has or because they forgot someone's sexual orientation or religion.
"You don’t really “memorize”. You just know it after being told. That’s how our brain works, even if you don’t want to know it."
Ridiculous. Do you live in the real world? Science has shown that our brains are literally hardwired to recognize the sex of the people around us based on cues like secondary sex characteristics. In non-Orwellian society, we use "he/him" pronouns for members of the male sex and "she/her" pronouns for members of the female sex and this all comes from sheer instinct. You are knee-deep in denial if you think our brains will look at DL faves Jonathan Yaniv, Alok, Stefonknee, Gamestop Ma'am and Rhys McKinnon and not instantly recognize that they are male.
"And people are about to “humiliate” you and “destroy your career” for misgendering them as likely as you’re about to for hearing anyone say anything homophobic"
You fail to realize that "misgendering" is not the same thing as a homophobic slur or attack. The homophobic equivalent of someone being "misgendered" would be if somebody called a gay person straight, and the racist equivalent would be if somebody called a black person white. Should that individual be reprimanded or fired for doing these things? No, because that would be fucking absurd and a total non-issue. It becomes an issue when you deal with pathological narcissists/professional victims like the ones I have posted who seek nothing but control and ass-pats.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||11/19/2020|
R45 The real "total non-issue" for me is calling what my friends and colleagues what they prefer to be called. Maybe it involves much "memorization" or "mental labor" for you, but not for me. I actually think it's the least I can do to be a good friend and co-worker, especially compared with real trans people's problems in their life. And yes, "nobody HAS to memorize things." Nobody HAS to do almost anything, such as having to work in an "Orwellian" environment as yours. But for me, I just don't mind sometimes doing something, some very little things that won't hurt me, if I still want to be a social animal. I'd remember my friends' birthdays so that I can send them gifts, or food allergies so that I may invite them for dinners, I don't mind remembering my co-workers' pronouns if I want to have a good relationship with them, or with PR, or with anyone at work who care about these guidelines. You don't have to believe calling someone what they call themselves is a prerequisite for kindness/respect, but it's definitely for less trouble, if our society is really as "Orwellian" as you describe. I'll take the easier, and IMHO, nicer road.
At the end of the day, almost all of your talking points about being persecuted by the "pathological narcissists/professional victims" were and still are being tossed at gay rights movement. I know I'd appreciate if I tell straight people that their "gay jokes" are distasteful or homophobic, and they don't get paranoid and call it PC running amok. I hope our community won't become what is to trans people that straight people was—and more often than not, still is—to us.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||11/20/2020|
^ And of course "PR" should be "HR".
|by Anonymous||reply 47||11/20/2020|
If you use a person's name, pronouns are irrelevant.
Grrrrrl, Sharmeka has a huge cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||11/20/2020|
R46 Everything in your first paragraph I have already addressed in a previous post. This "Appeal To Niceness" is nothing but a shallow attempt to stir people's emotions. You may personally choose to spend every waking moment of your life playing the role goody two-shoes (or so you say), constantly falling over yourself like a spineless servant trying to please those around you and crying when somebody's feelings (or ego in this case) have been hurt. Just like the Nice Guy who didn't get the girl and then goes on 4chan to call her a whore or the Lacrosse Mom who will bake you a cake and then tear you to shreds behind your back, your "niceness" is merely a charade. You have chosen to weaponize kindness and have turned it into a tool to raise your social standing. You are not being kind for the sake of being kind - you are being "kind" simply as a way to seize the moral high ground and thus increase your credibility as a person. How devious and sad.
In your second paragraph, you fail yet AGAIN to understand that homophobic/racist/sexist insults or jokes in the workplace are not the same thing as "misgendering" or "mispronoun-ing". Even after I explained it to you with very simply and concise examples, you choose to ignore my words and instead continue to cling to an argument that you hope will resonate in a website that caters to gay men: "How would YOU feel if somebody called you the f-word!? Now YOU know how transsexuals feel when they are misgendered!" In time you will come to understand that not everyone can be persuaded with such cheap, melodramatic rhetoric.
"I hope our community won't become what is to trans people that straight people was—and more often than not, still is—to us."
Care to try again with this sentence? It feels like a stroke in written form. Are you trying to say that gay people could become the "oppressors" of transsexuals? Really? WE are the oppressors, even after we have relinquished every single major space or organization to transsexual politics [link below courtesy of the Oxford Department of Sociology]? That is preposterous.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||11/20/2020|
If you’re involved with a they is it automatically an orgy when you fuck?
|by Anonymous||reply 52||11/20/2020|
I find the easiest way to remember people’s pronouns is to not talk about them at all.
By the way, R37, excellent post.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||11/20/2020|
They are stupid and I could not give a crap what they think
|by Anonymous||reply 55||11/20/2020|
R49 Maybe you should tell this to your HR? Or to your co-workers who identify as “they/them”? It doesn’t matter what I fail to understand here or if you can convince me. I don’t even live in America and my native language doesn’t have gender pronouns, so it’s really not my problem, but yours. It’d be more useful, and probably less “spineless, devious and sad” if you can convince people around you in real life, especially if what they think and do bothers you so much that you can’t wait to make a change.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||11/20/2020|
R56 I see you've now dropped debate entirely. Why bother writing such a useless, hollow post? Are you so childish that you MUST have the last word?
Enjoy it, then.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||11/20/2020|
[quote] They all use the traditional plural declension i.e - they are, they have etc
Nouns are declined. Verbs are conjugated.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||11/20/2020|
R57 I "dropped" the debate because you started it; I didn't want to enter it in the first place. Also because the issue really doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you. Also because many of your words, "attention whores/pathological narcissists/professional victims", sound too familiar for me to the rhetoric used against gay rights movement. But I dropped primarily because I don't want to become a person as angry and bitter as you are.
The only thing I'm wondering is what you will do in real life now? You obviously have thought a lot about this, but when someone introduces you their non-binary pronoun, will you utter a word? Dare you speak up for yourself, telling them you won't use it and they have no right to ask you to memorize it? Can you be as self-righteous and forceful in front of real people in the workplace as you are here, an anonymous gay forum? With all your worries, principles and Oxford Department of Sociology research, I hope you don't fail yourself. Otherwise, what was all that about? Just for some WW votes on DL?
|by Anonymous||reply 60||11/21/2020|
This is theology. You have 1A protections against compelled speech and against being forced to participate in someone else's religion. Everyone knows that men and women are the only two human sexes, we have words that describe different male and female members of society. If other people believe in an ideology that runs counter to set science and fact, they, like all theists are allowed to do that, but no one else is required to participate in their religion.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||11/21/2020|
There’s He or She. A THEY is Plural. So this untalented fat whiny cunt either pick a gender or pay double taxes if you want to be called a “they”.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||11/21/2020|