HBO true crime documentary “Murder on Middle Beach”

Until this, the worst thing that happened in Madison was seeing Ann Coulter everywhere.

No. Come to think of it, that was still the worst.

I am pretty riveted by this show and think the son is brave for making the documentary. Also very interesting that the cops asked for his documentary footage because they think maybe people he talked to would say more to him than them. Makes me think that they were already onto the gifting table angle early on.

And a $5,000 buy in for the gifting table? Wow. These fraus don't mess around.

I grew up in Guilford, the town next to Madison. The Madison cops are notoriously corrupt and have been for decades. Years and years of scandals. Will be interesting to see if he digs deeper into that in the next three episodes. They really screwed this investigation up-perhaps on purpose. The scene when he’s talking to them and they bring up that BS about finding his DNA on a cigarette the day of the murder was sketchy AF.

I think the son/filmmaker did it and suppressed the memory. That's gonna be the twist: he's making a documentary that will actually expose himself as the killer.

That would make this the best documentary of 2020 in my eyes. If his friends or whoever that is working with him have to end up finishing the documentary because he goes to jail.

But I don't think so. It's just too much of a coincidence that she was killed on the same day as her court date.

I feel like the father doing it is just too easy, because there is every reason to suspect him. There will be no Jinx-like surprise if it’s him, so I almost hope it’s the filmmaker with repressed memories, R5. Seems like there must be more to it if there are three more parts, in any case.

The AWG filmmaker/son was away at college the morning his mother was killed.

[quote]I think the son/filmmaker did it and suppressed the memory. That's gonna be the twist: he's making a documentary that will actually expose himself as the killer.

No one would ever buy it

I’m from Guilford next town over, the Madison cops were busted with prostitutes behind the local grocery, they used to steal lobsters from a local restaurant too. Shady cops are easy to pay off.

The father may have hired someone else to do it

The murder has never been solved so there isn’t going to be an answer at the end of the documentary

I watched the first episode too, and I can’t imagine it was anyone other than the filmmaker’s father. I’ll stick with it, but I don’t think it’s very well done. Nowhere near as good as something like The Staircase, or The Keepers, or Making a Murderer.

I hope it doesn’t turn out to be as depressing as There’s Something Wrong With Aunt Diane, but it’s hard to imagine how anything possibly could.

Who knew there were so many Dataloungers from Guilford? I spent half of my childhood in Madison.

OP is an HBO lackey. He keeps posting HBO ads like this post. Even after posting that HBO is planning a huge anti-gay programming initiative. FUCK OFF!

They need a HUGE anti-trans programming initiative, that’s what they need.

Thanks for the spoiler r11!!

It could be Lily Rabe.

The son ain’t all that, OP. Get a better tv.

[quote] Makes me think that they were already onto the gifting table angle early on.

How so? They were referring to his father.

We all know the father did it. Come on. You’d have to be as dumb as an OJ juror not to know that.

[quote] HBO is planning a huge anti-gay programming initiative.

What?

The Keepers was ridiculous. That woman was a schizophrenic. They were exploiting her.

Or Nicole Kidman’s wig r17.

There was lots of gifting table/ local organization embezzlement messiness in the area starting about a year or so before the mom was killed.

Wasn’t the father AT court the time of the murder? He’s definitely involved but I don’t think her personally killed her.

I found the first episode intriguing but very confusing, particularly the way info was given to us.

Madison (the director) said to his father that he and his mother had been married 13 years when she died. But wasn't Madison older than 13 when the murder happened? And there was also mention by the grandmother or an aunt of a half-brother. Where is he and which parent was/is his? Or is Madison's father actually his step-father?

Was Madison in college out of state when the murder occurred? Why are we confused about this detail? If he was, why do the police seem to still consider him a suspect?

Madison behaved like the revelation of the pyramid scheme was a surprise to him but weren't the gifting parties happening when he (or at least his younger sister) were living in the house? How did he not already know about the parties and the accusations, scandal, etc.?

The murder happened in 2010 but when did Madison begin making the documentary? Did he go to the police station to tape the conversations years after the murder?

Thank you r26 I completely agree, the way info was parsed out was very confusing.

Looking forward to tonight's episode and hoping some of the misinformation will be cleared up.

It says 2013 crew in the credits so I guess it started in 2013.

Watched episode 2 and still found it very frustrating but realize now that they continue to withhold info just to create tension. I get it but would prefer a more linear take on the storytelling.

There are also so many of these middle aged women relatives in the story and it's impossible keeping straight who they are and what they know. They all look vaguely alike and then we see them in home video and photos in earlier times with different hairdos....yikes....what a jumble.

I got confused by his Aunt Jill interviews! I didn't know the documentary took place over such a long period of time then all of a sudden she looks completely different and gained a bunch of weight because it's after she served her time in jail for running a gift table pyramid scheme!

Yes, totally confusing, r31!

Aunt Jill seemed to run the gamut of hair coloring from auburn to ginger to platinum blonde, in jail or not.

At times some of these cousins and aunts seem like actresses hired to play cousins and aunts.

Even given all the info about the gifting tables, I still don't think that's why she was killed. No one from the gifting group would gain anything if she was dead. She didn't owe anyone money. The person who had a lot to gain was her ex-husband because he owed her so much money.

Also maybe Aunt Jill would have gained something if Barbara were dead, but Aunt Jill has a good alibi.

It's pretty good

Madison got better looking as he grew up and lost his baby fat. They seem to allude to him going through a bad drug addiction.....am I getting that right?

Yes, he did. Apparently he was in the midst of it when the murder happened....I think.

All the women in this seem like real pieces of work. Bored drunken housewives scamming each other. The mom that was murdered seemed like a shitty person, preying on people in AA like she did.

That said I don’t think the frau group was responsible for her murder. All signs still point to the husband.

Are we supposed to believe that the killer will be revealed in the final episode? Wouldn't that be revealed in a google search?

Spoiler alert, R39. S/he will not be revealed.

Will we have an episode devoted to making the case for the daughter’s guilt?

The son is hot

Yes the son/documentarian is hot af 🔥

I think the jailbird aunt did it! She reminds me of caroline Manzo from Real Housewives of NJ.

The documentary is a bit hard to follow. They didn’t explain the gift table scheme very well-I still don’t really understand it. It both moves too fast and yet doesn’t move much at all.

I agree but I still find it kind of fascinating.

R45 I’m from the Guilford /Madison area and these tables were the talk of the towns at the time. Here is some local reporting from that time

This entire family is a trip. The father was involved in international money-laundering and stole money from his kids. The mother was a scammer who recruited new pyramid scheme victims from her AA meetings. The aunt was an alcoholic and a grifter. The other aunt (?) Jill went to prison and showed no remorse for her actions. Barbara's daughter is mentally ill (according to reddit) and the son had a bad drug addiction. At least he is sober and kinda hot now.

He's just kinda hot IMHO. His hotness varies a lot from scene to scene

After the DISAPPOINTMENT of The Undoing, I'm hoping tonight's episode will be interesting/informative.

Finally, tonight's episode was gripping! And very emotional. I don't know if it was because the information came at us more reasonably or if we've simply come to an understanding of who all the characters are and what their relationships are to each other. In any case, I was riveted and look forward to the conclusion next week.

Do we think the murderer will be revealed?

From what I’ve read, R51, s/he will not be revealed.

It's pretty clear from tonight's episode that this isn't the story of her murder, it's the story of the family that was left behind.

In other words...

[quote]Do we think the murderer will be revealed?

It's an unsolved, real-world murder. No one has been charged and there's nothing to reveal.

The conflict of interest with the attorney has always struck me as weird. He represented Barbara when she offered to provide evidence and testify against Jeffrey, in exchange for immunity, in his money-laundering case and then he turned around and represented Jeffrey a few years later when he was a person of interest in her murder. How does that happen? It looks like they'll finally address what Barbara had on Jeffrey next week.

Does anyone know how this documentary came to be? The son doesn't strike me as ambitious enough to get it to HBO.

In most interviews he referenced getting a SCAD alumni grant in 2016 but the local paper reported he had an in through his uncle:

“It was a fortuitous conversation with an uncle, an actor in the 1970s, that led to a connection with Ron Nyswaner, an Academy Award nominee for the 1994 movie “Philadelphia.” That film was directed and produced by Academy Award winner Jonathan Demme.

After learning of his work, Madison Hamburg recalled, Nyswaner called him and said, “ ‘I’m flying you out to LA. We’re going to do this the right way. Jonathan Demme changed my life in one phone call and I’m going to try to do the same for you.’ ”

Who do you think might have done it? It certainly seems to do with the stupid pyramid scheme.

I'm a little confused about the time line. Supposedly, the mom Barbara drove her daughter Ali to school but then the daughter says she called her mom to come back and bring her home again. But when she couldn't reach her mom, she called her aunt Conway, who she supposedly hated, to come pick her up and then the 2 women drove back to the house to find Barb's dead body. Correct?

I don't think it was her daughter or her sister or even the ex-husband, it doesn't feel like there was really enough rage for any of them to go to such extremes. Would the daughter really have called her aunt to "discover" the body? When are we to presume Ali killed her mother if she was at school in the morning? If it was before she left for school, how did she get to school?

Though the house was on a somewhat secluded lot, the murder happened in broad daylight out in the open. What does that say? I'd think anyone who knew Barbara well would have murdered her inside the house, not taking the chance they could be identified by a a passing neighbor. What's the significance of the broken dog statue? Did it break as Barb tried to flee the house from her killer?

Why bother to cover Barb's body with the patio cushions when it was obviously going to be uncovered so quickly and easily?

If Barb's purse was on the ground near her body, I guess it means she was either peacefully entering or leaving her house.

It's strange (or sloppy) that there was barely any mention of the gifting parties in this episode when it was such a focus of the last one. There could be many outraged women (and raging alcoholics)from them who'd want to kill Barbara.

The director is cute...but those ears!! Very Marco Rubio large.

R59 But Barbra was found dead in pyjamas, right? She drove her daughter to school in pyjamas, oki, it is not imposssible,but she had that visit at court

He is good looking. I think his weird aunt did it. Conrad. Like on Columbo, she is doing way too much explaining and pointing fingers. Columbo would expose her.

R62, I can’t say that Conway did it, for sure, but she’s one twisted bitch. The way she threw Ali under the bus so completely made me uneasy.

Also, she has this way of being so totally warts-and-all honest because honey, she’s seen it all and come out the other side, that strikes me as disingenuous. Like she’s showing you all her cards, but she’s got one hidden in her shirt collar. She’s smarmy, like a TV preacher. Admitting to all the sins except the one at hand.

I can’t get enough of this story. There are so many fucked-up people in it!

Something else that struck me was the blonde tennis-playing therapist lady who currently owns the murder house. She let this film crew just gander around her property? And then she talks about her mother suiciding and Madison gets all weepy with her. I’ll bet a hundred bucks she cougared him.

R54, you made me laugh. But is cougar a verb? We need to consult the grammar troll!

The cougar is a grief counselor, it gives her an edge with Madison.

Considering how many DLers were watching The Undoing, I'm surprised there hasn't been more interest here on this documentary, which followed it in the HBO evening lineup. There's so much more pay off..

R67, I’M here. This is much more interesting than “The Undoing”.

I think the cops kind of ignored the gifting table thing because I’ll bet a few of their wives were involved in it.

And I noticed the name “Norm Pattis” on one of the documents from the gifting table episode. He was defending the hot killer Fortis Dulos. I guess defense attorneys have to deal with these awful people.

Did the deceased have any sort of a sex life? There’s no mention of her dating anyone. Did she go lesbo or was she celibate? She was attractive enough to have found some dick if she wanted it.

Neither here nor there, but I forgot to mention that the same lawyer who represented both Barbara and Jeffrey also represented the Madison cop who moonlighted as a criminal mastermind.

He broke into a seafood restaurant and stole their shrimp and lobster and then called it in as open door. The owner thought an employee did it so he installed security cameras. The cop went back and did the same thing a few nights later, but this time he was caught on camera.

That’s just one of many stupid incidents involving Madison cops, so I can’t imagine how they would handle a murder investigation. When I lived there as a kid the worst thing I remember happening was teenagers smashing mailboxes on Mischief Night.

R69, Oooh I remember Mischief Night! (Also from CT)

These small-town cops fuck things up if they’re not used to things like murder investigations.

The aunt killed her. Someone knew where those cushions were. She had a hammer, tried to hire a hitman and can’t look at the daughter because she reminds her of his mother. She’s nuts and was being thrown out.

Maybe both the daughter and aunt were in on it. lol

It’s embarrassing, r70. We were too milquetoast for Devil’s Night.

How big is his cock?

In the real world 90% of murders are committed by men, but DLers want to blame women for everything. R71 is typical of that kind of thinking.

R74 Fuck off, many women on Reddit think that her sister did that.

Many women on reddit are idiots

R76 They are not idiots here, sure frau

I'm not a frau but r75 is

I wasn't aware of this doc but I watched an episode over the weekend. I didn't care for any of the women and certainly wouldn't be a friend to any of them. It was fascinating, though. How was she killed?

The daughter had to know her mother was supposed to be in court that morning, why would she call her? Something isn't right there.

The daughter made her mother drop her off at school, late, stopping first at a coffee shop for a chai latte. Then almost as soon as she gets there, she wants her mom to come pick her up, just because. She may not have murdered her mom but she was a spoiled brat.

This is one fucked up family. A bunch of addicts and drunks. The parents told the kids about their divorce on Christmas morning? The fuck?

The daughter is a piece of work. If I was the police I’d be giving her another look. She wasn’t telling the truth.

Conway did it

Conway definitely did it. She’s a drunk psycho. She hated and resented her sister. She was jealous of her. She had dreamed about killing her for years. The way she tried to manipulate Madison when she started telling him how the sister did it was sketchy. Physically she’s much bigger than her and could easily overpower her.

Arrest that woman.

Your main takeaway is that the daughter was a brat?!

Man, this case is crazy. Hard to believe it is a true true story, seems like it was engineered in a writers room with all the twists and crazy characters. Complete with Madison as the good looking leading man right out of central casting.

That said while there are lots of other credible suspects, I still would put money her death was caused by her husband.

Interesting how Grandma is such a saint and yet spawned all these creepy drunks and addicts.

Is Great Aunt Jill Grandma's sister? Or did Great Aunt Jill marry into that crazy family?

[quote] In the real world 90% of murders are committed by men, but DLers want to blame women for everything. [R71] is typical of that kind of thinking.

Look at Jodi Arias here.

Madison was giving me Zach Effron vibes last night when he was visiting the house where his mom was killed. His sis was a typical spoiled teen w/anxiety and depression etc at the time of mom’s death. Conway, the drug addict, alcoholic, prostitute who admitted she wanted to put a hit on their family, trying to pin a murder on a teen is laughable! Hope the cops wake up and question her, could she have been the killer hired by the hubby to get rid of Barbara? Sure, why not?!

but dont you understand that barbara had male dna under her fingernails?Not some male dna, but a male from her family!

It’s possible that the father was sexually abusing the daughter. That whole situation seemed weird. Taking her door off the hinges because he felt she was drifting away? Huh? The mother never thought to look into that? And the daughter is fucked up, she has the classic signs of a sexual abuse victim. Drugs, outbursts, mood swings, anger, etc. But I don’t think she was involved in the murder.

Conway, however, was certainly involved. She was pissed that her sister kicked her out of her house and the gravy train ended. She needed money and knew exactly where Barb his hers. She even brought up the life insurance policy. She had the motive and the opportunity and she’s a remorseless psycho. The way she just shrugged off attempting to hire a hit man to kill her sister was a big red flag. Perhaps her and the husband are in on it together. The two of them benefited the most from Barb’s death.

I think just like the Undoing, it was the husband all along. All these other people are good suspects and had motives, but the person who benefitted the most was the the husband. He owed her A LOT of money.

If the court date happens, the money he owed her would go to her estate and he'd still have to pay. If the court date doesn't happen, he's scot free. It was him. Hit man or whatever. Probably after she dropped the daughter off at school.

I'm guessing the 4th and final episode will focus on the original bungled police investigation and the recent follow-up based on the documentary's pursuit of the truth/killer. If we don't get answers it will be very disappointing.

Especially it was him because he KNEW that she has money, a lot of them and stil she wanted him to pay, pretending to be single mum without work.

R94 we wont , the case is unsolved

Well of course there isn't going to be some answer r94 in the documentary. The goal of these things is primarily to get public attention on the case.

My god, even The Undoing gave us answers!

Yes, it's obvious that Hugh Grant did it...with a hammer no less!

Conway did it.

Zac Efron's, I mean, Madison's girlfriend did it.

Why not the new occupant of his childhood home?!

"Look at Jodi Arias here."

For every Jodi Arias, there are a hundred Scott Petersons, so what's your point?

Madison really does look like Zac Efron sometimes. Less perfect so hotter.

How did Conway and hubby benefit the most?

This whole family is creepy. Isn’t it unusual to have multiple murderer suspects in the same family? I think the little sister did it and then ran away. She is very dead behind the eyes.

They should reveal what happened to the mother’s estate and assets after she died.

[quote]Isn’t it unusual to have multiple murderer suspects in the same family?

Oh, bless your precious heart. Aren’t you just the sweetest?

I could see the daughter pretending she forgot something at home, killing the mother, and then going to school. No one saw her dropped off at school, right? She seems crazy but they all do.

Except there would be blood on the daughter. The case makes no sense unless it was a hit man.

R109 I’m from Madison. Daniel hand high school is almost 4 miles away from middle beach. The daughter would not have been able to walk back and forth like that

Pre-prison aunt Jill reminds me so much of Dorothy Breininger from Hoarders right down to the haircut, scarves and the way she speaks.

Is Connecticut part of New England? They all seem like trash from Braintree Massachusetts.

The only one who did not agree to be filmed for the doc was pops.

He was the sole holdout.

[quote] For every Jodi Arias, there are a hundred Scott Petersons, so what's your point?

Oh, do fuck off.

The parents of the 6 kids seemed so normal and like ideal parents.

And then the mom let it slip that she may have been a tad neglectful. And oh by the way, dad was a drunk who left the family to go on AA tours?

No wonder they are a wild lot.

But I do think the gene thing is true. Especially in these white upper crust New England families. It’s always one drunk and they always say they feel “different” than the rest of their family and have so from an early age.

You should be able to peg them in adolescence by now and intervene. There is a pattern there.

It’s Conway. She wanted to do this. They said it was a hammer, she keeps a hammer. Can’t look at the daughter because she looks like her sister, etc. it’s beyond obvious.

[quote] For every Jodi Arias, there are a hundred Scott Petersons, so what's your point?

There no Scott Peterson. I hate to break it to you but women kill and the suspects in this case are female. Deal with it, weirdo.

[quote] If the court date happens, the money he owed her would go to her estate and he'd still have to pay. If the court date doesn't happen, he's scot free. It was him. Hit man or whatever. Probably after she dropped the daughter off at school.

Nah. It was a personal crime. That was not a hit. Any psychologist would tell you that, especially their knowing where the cushions were and covering up the body. It was personal. There was rage. A hit would be a clean shot to the head. The end. This was up close and personal.

Conway is the one who had the rage and the means. She had the hammer from the basement. She can’t even lie well. You can tell how guilty she is when she speaks. She’s a terrible liar. The mother was throwing her out. She blamed her for taking her son away and tried to hire people to kill them. She’s deeply disturbed.

Why would Conway do the doc if she was guilty?

I got a guilty vibe from all of them, really. They were a real messed up bunch. I agree Conway should be a main suspect. But I don’t think she could beat someone with a hammer to death. Maybe a baseball bat. Or golf club.

Why would Conway do the doc if she was guilty?

I got a guilty vibe from all of them, really. They were a real messed up bunch. I agree Conway should be a main suspect. But I don’t think she could beat someone with a hammer to death. Maybe a baseball bat. Or golf club.

Yeah, it's just like MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS. they were ALL in on it.

The daughter went to live in South America. That's not suspicious.

I believe the father has NEVER agreed to a police interview. That seems really suspicious. His phrasing is also weird like “I could never do this” (which allows for I hired someone else to do it). Poor Madison.

Maybe he bribed his attorney, but his dna doesnt match. I dont know,

I agree it would make no sense for the real killer to agree to be a part of an HBO documentary.

Here's an obituary for the patriarch Sandy Beach (no wonder he started drinking). Funnily enough he died at an AA meeting. There was another sister who died a couple of months after Barbara of liver disease.

When Madison started filming for the documentary (in 2013 when he was still a student at SCAD I believe) did he have any knowledge about the gifting table scandal? The documentary makes it appear that he didn't, so it would seem it was pure luck that he had that whole story to tell to add another twist to the story.

[quote] Why would Conway do the doc if she was guilty?

The same reason why murderers try to help the police solve the crime they committed - to throw them off. The question you just asked is what they want to you ask yourself and believe.

R92 is a fucking blathering idiot who needs to STFU. Not everyone has seen The Undoing yet and thy don't need to read spoilers about it on a thread about it in an unrelated thread. Knucklehead chump, GTFO.

The father didn’t know the son recorded conversations that ended up in the documentary. They don’t talk anymore.

I don't understand how the father could "refuse" to do a police interview? Is this true? If so, someone please explain.

Honestly, there are so many unanswered questions and confusing issues three episodes into this thing, it's very clear how unclearly all the information is being presented to us. And is that intentional? I really can't tell.

Yes, you absolutely have the right to refuse to talk to the cops r132. Know your rights!

I believe the police questioned the father but with his attorney present. There was a brief period where they did not know the father’s whereabouts but then he was located. They never had any evidence to charge him and he was with the child support attorneys when it happened. The murder happening the day of the hearing was/is sketchy. It was a hit man.

Ali and Conway are two manipulative bitches. If you have family members like that (and I do), you can smell the manipulation a mile away.

What a messed up family it is.

Did anyone else notice that the sister didn't cry in her interview (when she was on the couch)? Conway did shed actual tears in her interviews.

Ali got insurance?I bet she did.

I think Conway did it. She is trying to do this reverse psychology / misdirection thing where she THINKS that being open about her previous attempts to hire a hitman that people will assume she is not the killer, because why would the killer be so up front about that, right?

This is all definitely linked to the tables and the daughter was not linked to the tables. Conway was.

Conway either killed her or had her killed.

We need a fucking poll.

Muriel, please add the ability to create a poll after a thread has been created. Thanks.

r138, if you think it's linked to the tables, what would be Conway's motivation for murdering her sister? Didn't Barb get Conway into the table scam and make money for her?

Conway said that Barb had 20,000 $. I don't believe her.It had to be more. Much more.

[quote] if you think it's linked to the tables, what would be Conway's motivation for murdering her sister? Didn't Barb get Conway into the table scam and make money for her?

I don't know. The gifting tables was an obvious and inherently shady enterprise so, as shady as everything we have heard is, I doubt we are even hearing the full extent of it. Maybe she killed her trying to get at the money she had stashed? There is a million different reasons it could be linked to the tables. Conway seems to be the only one who knows what ALL OF THOSE REASONS ARE.

Conway did it.

I just don’t understand why Ali would call and text her mom when she knew she’d be in court. This was a very important hearing and she’s expecting her mom to what? Leave and pick her up? Then she gets her aunt to pick her up at 10ish? Seems odd to me.

Would be a very unfortunate coincidence - just like dad’s ex being murdered on the day of their hearing over hundreds of thousands of dollars...

Honestly, Ali is the only one I can see going off with a hammer. She is dead inside.

Gee, maybe she seems "dead inside" because she found her Mother's murdered body when she was 16 r144.

Don’t touch anything! This is a crime scene!

Conway and the daughter were in on it together.

It’s funny that after the first episode it was thought obvious that the ex was responsible. Now, not so much.

Its still the ex, people are just falling for the red herrings.

They all seem messed up and guilty.

Father - hated her for wanting his money

Daughter - hated her mother and was on drugs

Sister - hated her sister and admits she previously tried to get a hit man to kill her sister’s whole family

Madison himself was some messed up heroin junkie at the time right.

Let's not forget him.

Right, and his DNA was under the mom’s nails. This family is the worst.

R151 he was at school in Georgia I believe

R153 he was absent

I don’t really think Ali and Conway teamed up to bump her off, but the whole drive Ali to school, coffee shop stop, and call to Conway, whom she supposedly didn’t like, to pick her up thing is just odd. The “crime scene” comment as well.

maybe they both killed her but didn't realize it at the time.

If Barbara (Madison's mother, the deceased) had to be in court at 9:30 am

there's no way she'd be in her pajamas driving Ali to school and stopping for a Chai at 9 am

so Ali is lying - her whole timeline is wrong

Ali had walked or found a way to school on her own before (according to Conway)

Even Ali's father said her Bordeline Personality Disorder made her prone to violent mood swings

Ali attacked her mom on the way out of the house sometime earlier - maybe around 7:30 or 8 am

She covered up her mom's body with the cushions, made her way to school late, and then started texting and calling Conway to come and pick her up from school so they could go home and "discover the body"

"there's no way she'd be in her pajamas driving Ali to school and stopping for a Chai at 9 am"

Because people are never, ever, late for anything

Who ever said Great Aunt Jill looks and acts just like RHO New Jersey's Coraline Manzo really fucked up this series for me! It's all I see now!

That said, Barbie's sister had something to do with it.

[quote]"there's no way she'd be in her pajamas driving Ali to school and stopping for a Chai at 9 am" Because people are never, ever, late for anything

It was not just "anything". That's the point.

It was a court appearance, in which Barbara was a litigate against her ex-husband, for a claim of about $100,000 in unpaid support.

If Barbara failed to show without cause, there might have been serious consequences for her.

If the judge were angered by her failure to appear, he might have ruled against her claim, or he might have even held her in contempt.

If Barbara had planned not to appear, she would have at least called to advise her attorney she wouldn't be able to be there. And she didn't do that. Her attorney was waiting with everyone else for her show up.

I have to say the r157 makes a lot of sense. I'll add that who else but a teenager (who lived there) would cover a body with outdoor cushions? I can't imagine any adult doing that and the fact that the daughter had to get to school and get out of there quickly seems like a very good reason. Also, dpending on it being true, why would the daughter tell her aunt not to touch anything, because it was a crime scene BEFORE they discovered the body?

I'm going with either the daughter or the father. Also, you can't go by anything the father says like Ali's BPD made her prone to violent mood swings. That is classic deflection away from himself as a suspect.

That would be me r159, she’s a dead ringer for Caroline Manzo.

If the killer isn't revealed tonight, what's the point?

but there were a party last night .Maybe thats why they woke up late.

The point of the documentary is to hopefully help the police conclude their investigation since they have not been able to identify even a person of interest.

r160, people are late for court appearances all the time

It’s interesting, as someone here stated, that the daughter contacted her mother to come pick her up when she knew that her mother would be in court. Maybe the daughter killed her, asked her aunt to come pick her up so she could arrive at the crime scene with her and have an alibi. Honestly, I think one of them did it, the aunt or the daughter.

[quote]people are late for court appearances all the time

I'm not sure what world you live in R167.

Barbara's attorney said in the first episode that Barbara always showed up on time, and he would expect to meet her 30 minutes before their scheduled appearance.

This was not traffic court - Barbara was the plaintiff in a claim for support from her husband - an action she brought for money she needed. Most courts move on a tight schedule, especially early in the day.

If you were to show up late, the court would likely have moved on to other cases. And it would be up to your attorney to make a motion for a rehearing or a continuance.

If Barbara's in her pajamas driving Ali to school and stopping for Chai tea at 9 am - she's not planning to go home, get changed, and be at the court house by 9:30 am. At 9 am, Ali should already have been at school and Barbara should have already been at the courthouse.

At the very least, Barbara would have been on her cell phone to her attorney, explaining she would be late - if she had been alive to make that phone call.

You guys just want to blame the daughter. Look at whose DNA was under the fingernails...

[quote]You guys just want to blame the daughter. Look at whose DNA was under the fingernails...

R170 = Ali

zoned out on Lithium and Depakote

r171 = zoned out on lithium, so he decides to accuse someone of murder based on no evidence

I'm not saying Ali had to be the murderer

but Ali's story is bullshit and Ali was the last one to see her mother alive

Look at how fucked up the Connecticut DNA lab was - we're not sure about the accuracy of those tests or if there's even any more DNA left to retest

Translation - I want to believe she did it, so I'll ignore science

[quote] You guys just want to blame the daughter. Look at whose DNA was under the fingernails...

So you’re saying it was the son cause the dad was in court. The DNA thing was mentioned by police. Not sure I buy it. It sounded more like they wanted to gage the son’s reaction. If there was DNA they would have prosecuted.

People are already calling bs on the fingernail thing. Sounds made up and no official report can be found.

Report says unidentified dna sample. They were fibbing to either get a reaction out of the son or hoping he would turn on his father. It’s a cold case for a reason.

The DNA evidence is, at best, inconclusive.

When the DNA tells me what I don't want to hear, I claim it's made up!

R179 Ali, it is you?

r180 = a grown man who killed someone but wants to blame it on a teen girl

You're not even making sense R181...

And your pussy really does stink

Your dick cheese stinks

Here's something: the aunt is a very unreliable narrator. We only have her word that the daughter said, "This is a crime scene." Aunt may have plenty of reasons to throw suspicion toward someone else.

Another idea: if daughter DID say, "This is a crime scene," it is possible she reacted with intuition, or at some time while living with him over/heard her father talk about getting rid of the mother, and her mind quickly jumped to that conclusion.

I am of the opinion ex-husband got someone else to kill the woman. Timing and benefits for him are greater than for anyone else. Aunt is pissed off at her niece fucking up her free stay with her sister and wants to hassle her niece. She knows charges will not actually stick to her niece because she is throwing out innuendoes, so she just does it to stir up trouble.

It was weird when Ali emphasized that she got a chai latte- which she loves - the morning of her mother’s murder. I also could believe that she took whatever money was in the house and went to South America.

Did Conway say she always carried a hammer under her front car seat or just after the murder? That too was weird.

And that poor private investigator. Good luck solving anything with no witnesses and no murder weapon. It’s why I would never live alone in a house like that.

How did Ali have the money to be an uneducated South American expat dilettante?

She is in school in South America. Not sure who paid for it.

Presumably Ali and Madison received a healthy payday after the death of their mother.

The confusion and disputation on this thread over the timeline on the morning of the murder, the actual whereabouts that morning of the various suspects, the info the police had vs what they didn't know, the fucking gifting parties, as well as the evidence....the quality of the DNA, the murder weapon's origin, etc., only tell me how poorly this documentary is laying out the case. It's truly impossible to follow.

I would love the final episode to begin with a concise recap.

My vibe is that the father did it. 100%

The drunken aunt? No. She is the red herring. She is a pathetic and sad woman, but not a murderer.

Ali- She strikes me that she was a spoiled bitch and monster just like the aunt said. But she also strikes me as someone who grew out of that phase and is a relatively decent human being.

It seems most likely the father or Conway hired a hit man to kill her

Or someone disgruntled by the gifting tables

So, the actual killer is likely not even in the series

Someone told me once you can hire a hit man for around $10K. Save your pennies.

How can I get in on one of these gifting table things?

What gifts are on the tables exactly?

[quote]How can I get in on one of these gifting table things?

Really, did you watch the program at all?

Dear Dad is a thief

It's so obvious the dad did it.

That last episode was stunning. Surprisingly emotional. I really came to love Madison and I hope he gains some real closure on his mother's death as a result of his documentary.

The father is such a dick.

Loved the last episode! Plus it’s perfectly set up for a sequel.

Interestingly this is the first episode I thought Madison was actually hot, and only in certain moments.

Otherwise he just looks like a pretty regular guy

Madison can sit on my face anytime he pleases.

R201, you’re a whore

Madison loses and gains weight throughout the episode—not a lot but he goes from blazing hot to meh I’m those few pounds

^ in

He really just needs a little better grooming. And must stop wearing those awful tapered pants (is there a name for that style?).

So there will be a sequel?

I was shocked that some of the evidence was only attained a few weeks ago in mid-October.

Those fucking police really did a shitty job. But the bald one was kinda hot.

It was a great series. It’s nice that Ali had a happy ending. I think the father is 100% guilty.

I didn't the expect the Connecticut Freedom of Information Commission to rule in Madison's favor after watching the hearing/deposition.

Hopefully there will be a more revealing sequel that stems out of Madison's investigation into the police files. They've been conspicuously stonewalling on this thing from the beginning, which is most likely due to them fucking up badly on the investigation. There's also the remote possibility that there's something going on a much larger scale with the father's shady international dealings and they didn't want to open up a can of worms.

I don't really understand why the father's shady business dealings didn't seem to have any legal repercussions. Did I miss something? Was he prosecuted about that, I mean beyond the murder?

How could the father not be sure he was involved in money laundering? Liar! Madison seems gay. I hope his girlfriend realizes and gets out while she can.

1. I was glad Ali was (basically) exonerated. She seems to have really worked on herself - and not in some lame Oprah way. Actually did the therapeutic work....

2... unlike her Aunt Conway. I don't for a second think she had something to do with the murder (though I did for a quick second). She, as Ali said in the final episode, is just a sad human, a punching bag, and seems happy enough to remain in that state.

3. I am 92% sure the dad did it. But let's say I'm wrong about that. I'm 100% sure he laundered millions and IF he didn't murder Barbie, the reason he's such a dick and obstinate is to protect that element of his criminal past.

Finally, as someone else said, Madison seems like a pretty good guy (granted he IS the editor). At least his mom raised a pretty good son.

How big is Madison’s cock?

Mammoth, R213.

The behavior displayed by the cops here is hardly unusual unfortunately r209. Can't say I am surprised they were stonewalling Madison at every turn.

If we assume that they were referring to his father when they said the prime suspect had their phone off for 24 hours that would indicate to me he personally killed her. But the timeline is tight, but feasible, for him to have killed her with his own hands and then shown up to court that morning. Pretty wreckless plan.

I loved the plastic doughnuts with Barb's ashes that Madison gave to all his relatives. They'll make lovely pendants.

The doc never went very far with the "man in the ski mask" who was seen around the house. I guess that sets up the idea of a hit man but Madison didn't seem to pursue it with his investigators or the police.

Who was it that saw the ski-masked figure again? I seem to remember it was Barb's friend, who didn't want her face seen on camera.....or was the friend saying Barb told her that she had seen the guy?

R212 has summed up my thoughts on the doc perfectly. Thanks!

I wonder if Madison's relationship with his father will be over for good, if the dad wasn't aware of the documentary being made and that all his meetings and phone calls were being recorded. Madison's aunt (the father's sister) seemed like kind of a bitch to him.

I thought the anonymous women who saw the ski mask man was one of Barb's AA friends, though she would probably have to have been a neighbor to have seen that.

I think the ski mask person could be easily explained as someone walking with a hat on (it was winter after all) and it being mistaken for a “ski mask”. And people in AA can tend to be dramatic and unreliable.

It was the father.

It was an AA woman who was interviewed toward the end of the second episode. She was having lunch at Barbara’s house the day before the murder and she said a man in a black ski mask looked in the window as he was walking through the yard.

She said he was walking in the direction of East Wharf Rd., which doesn’t make sense if the house is where I’ve always thought it was. I rewound it to see if I had misheard but she definitely said East, not West.

R221 maybe she did it?

Conway is one fucked up bitch. And she isn’t sober.

I was kind of surprised at the cool detachment of the grandmother. Typical WASP matriarch behavior. I’d love to know more about HER.

And I shouldn’t be, but I was surprised to learn how much money Jeffrey had borrowed from everyone in the family - even his own sister, who he still owes. Apparently he paid it back, like it was some kind of revolving debt. Why would you keep lending money like that? Was he repaying the Beach parents’ loans with interest?

And one more thing; how would he be able to steal money from his children’s trusts? He was a trustee?

What about Viggo Mortensen?

Sorry, wrong thread!

Did they say if the father works now? Abd why wasn't he prosecuted for all the money laundering? Or was he?

It would be great if HBO got a panel together of Madison and few of those involved to discuss the case with a moderator and broadcast it in a few weeks. So many unanswered questions, not only who murdered Barb.

Did they ever get the phone records to see if the dad or one of his minions called to tell Barbi the wrong time for her court date?

Madison has a great plump butt.

Yes. The matriarch seems as unemotional and aloof as possible but it could be because those types tend to close up around company, not to mention the camera. But is she an archetype or what. The chugging vodka in the pantry, the chopped straw hair, the whole 9. All that’s missing is the Volvo.

This Connecticut town seems really unpleasant. A lot is filmed in Winter or early Spring, so it looks grim and grey but the people are also awful. A soulless place.

Stupid question probably but if the father's phone was shut off on the morning of the murder, what would that prove? Wasn't he in the presence f the divorce court during those hours?

And did Madison ever find out who called his mother and told her the court appointment had been moved to the afternoon?

His father’s sister was the icing on the psychotic cake.

The ending was a tease.

There are some ethical questions here. Why all the teasing? There was a murder for gods sake. This is not supposed to be entertainment. And it’s his mom. Is nothing sacred?

He’s going to try to milk another”season”. It was a four episode preview. It seems like this whole thing was patched together just to lead people on. This family is something else.

My DVR recording cut off just as Madison was being told to go to the last page of the hearing decision. Other than the ultimate decision (in his favor, I've learned), what, if anything. did I miss?

[Quote]This is not supposed to be entertainment.

Come again e234? Thats exactly what this was supposed to be.

Why do you think HBO poured money into producing and broading this show? They thought their viewers would find it entertaining. Don't kid yourself, its still all a business. All of the true crime media is a busiess, and a very successful one at that.

R234, I agree. All that lead-up to the release of the 911 call and then we don’t get to hear it?

But oh yeah, there’s going to be a Season 2, so.

They only should do a sequel if it leads to a new investigation. Otherwise, Madison is stuck in the trauma of the past and his job will be spring through his dead mother’s trash.

Going through her trash. That seems wrong.

I agree R236. That's exactly why these shows are made...for their entertainment potential. It's as that simple that. They are not made under the noble pretense of crime solving, but for the viewing audience. This story has a lot of interesting angles to it, many unanswered questions, a smorgasbord of characters, and, of course, an unsolved murder, which is almost certainly why HBO took this project on.

^^ * it's as simple as*

I guess HBOhelped fund it as it saw the first parts of the documentary. Otherwise how could he and his co-producer keep flying to Argentina and such.

The documentary must have been done and then it got the decision about the police records. It was the perfect ending to set up at least one more episode in the future.

I was surprised at the records decision but I figure the records board thought, if the police can't come up with anything in 10 years, why not release the notes to someone else.

I think the dad hired someone to do it. It had to be done before the court hearing or else his fishy dealing would be out in the open. The whole belief that the court time had been moved to later is key.

The theory of the masked guy being there the day before and being deterred by the car in the driveway makes sense. Since it needed to get done before the court date, they hatched the plan to make her think the court time had moved.

The dad seemed completely unemotional about his ex-wife being murdered and kept telling his son, "You will have to accept that you'll never know."

I wasn't going to watch the final episode......but after reading the comments here, I decided it might be worthwhile.

I am glad I did. As other posters have written it seems the father may be behind the hit.....time will tell.

I couldn't find it on my HBO On Demand on Comcast......it wasn't listed by title on the front screen and it wasn't in any of the categories......where did you find it, if you watched OnDemand?

Oh, I found it on the regular schedule showing at 5:05 p.m. this afternoon.......

It's on HBO2 tonight at 8 (EST).

A friend thinks the dad was a government agent that’s why the cops stepped back. I think dad hired a hit man from among the shady folks he was involved with and then he paid off cops to “lose” evidence and bungle things up. Boy I didn’t think Madison Police could look more inept/corrupt, I was wrong!

Hope the state police gets involved, there was so much more to this with the money laundering etc.

But can anyone explain why Dad wasn't prosecuted for his illegal and nefarious business dealings overseas? The paper work is all there.

Learned a really important lesson about both crimes and assumptions with the final revelations about Ali and the changed court time. I couldn't get over the inconsistency of Ali's story, claiming her mother took her to school and was wearing pajamas when she should have been on her way to court. There was just no way that was possible.

Then we find out that's exactly what happened (although its not clear why Ali wouldn't have known her mom expected to be in court later that day--apparently the mom mentioned it to like two other people and it was a big deal in her life).

But Ali showed up at school a few minutes before 8 am according to school records. And that was considered officially late.

Sandy Beach!

You are wondering why this small town incompetent police department didn't go after these complicated finance crimes r248?

People get away with crimes they have committed all the time.

Ok. So I was the one who couldn’t understand Ali calling/texting her mom knowing she’d be in court...Well, maybe she did know that the mom was planning on a 2pm court date. That would explain her behavior. We never heard Ali say that the hearing time was 9:30.

Dad did it. He killed her and the cops probably fucked up the evidence and know they can’t take it to court and would rather everyone NOT know that they fucked up the evidence so they are pretending that they’re still working the case.

r248, no, I would have expected the FBI to go after crimes involving that much money spent (or extorted) on foreign shores. This was clearly beyond the municipal police. And I ask this question regardless of the murder.

R224 He was in New Zealand filming one of the LOTR movies at the time. Airtight alibi.

Ali was a typically self-absorbed teenager who wouldn't have been paying much attention to stuff like the time of her mother's court appointments. Or if she was, she might have thought Barb would be done in court by 10:30 when she called her to be picked up at school.

I about died laughing when Madison visited Conway at her trailer and she comes outside with her gunt hanging out and a cigarette in her mouth. And that phone call she had with Madison when she was drunk as skunk. Give that woman a reality show!

The husband hired a hit man. It was the guy in the ski mask checking out the house the day before. It’s obvious.

Conway was the older sister of Barbara, who was born in 1961. I’m thinking she might’ve been only a couple of years older, making her a very old looking woman in her late 50s & early 60s during the making of this documentary. Another cautionary note about the effects of drinking & drugs.

It's a trailor, dude!

Madison on the next "chapter" of his investigation after the finale

r261 thanks for sharing! I'm torn between whether the cops were getting paid to fuck it up or that the cops were inept. Hope Madison gets this solved. Dad is a dirty gaslighting dog, I am certain he was involved. The info about the court times in the last episode sure made it sound like a Daddio orchestrated hit job,

R261, interestingly, he doesn't really say anything in that interview.

One theory that’s not been examined is the powers-that-be behind a multi-billion dollar money laundering scam. As Madison said in the interview in R261, there was a “hurricane” of things happening within in his Mom’s life. The messy family, divorce and gifting tables just convolute everything. This woman was outing a scheme with billions of dollars involved, people who operate on that level do not think twice to off someone. I think some oligarch type ordered the hit and it was intended to get pinned on the father as a hit or something. It was intentionally made to look like a crime of passion with the hammer, rather than someone showing up 007-style with a silencer. The father probably suspects that an associate did it and he keeps quiet to not incriminate himself in the murder or the money laundering and he doesn’t want to end up dead too.

This would have been interesting to see. Too bad it was cut.

[quote]With the police, the legal team at Jigsaw had the recordings legally vetted and made a group decision that it was okay. Mostly it was from a First Amendment rights standpoint. To that point, something I most regret that was left on the cutting room floor was sequence in which I pieced together all the bits of information I’d heard from the police to find out whether or not I was their number one suspect, and if they thought that, did they think I was doing this documentary in an effort to know what they know. We had to cut a lot of stuff for time, but that one really hurt because it felt like an opportunity to show how easy it is to connect the dots through confirmation bias. I was a suspect in their eyes. So, when I would go and talk to them, I was questioned in a way that I felt recording would protect me if those conversations were ever used against me.

r264, brilliant assessment!

That kid has some balls on him, to secretly record his discussions with the police! I had to laugh.

The police considering Madison himself a suspect was briefly featured in episode 1 but not brought again r265. It makes sense that they planned to do more with that but it was cut.

Wasn't Madison out of the state on a drug/alcohol bender during his mother's death?

Did a pretty boy like Madison ever sleep with a guy for drug money? I guess he is probably too rich for that.

Funny extroversion should be mentioned, I had that very thought this morning, that extroverts have got to be suffering. I would suspect also that it is extroverts who are throwing the ill-advised parties just because they can’t stand the lack of a social life. Being a happy introvert and homebody, I have not suffered from that, although I do miss art galleries, museums, and restaurants. I’m also terribly sad and worried for the world.

Dammit, wrong thread. Apologies-

Madison is really dumb to make this documentary. He showed his dad that he's on to him and his dad will hire someone to kill him, like he did to Madison's mom. You don't show the person you are pursuing your cards. That is soooo stupid! They can't know. It's the only way to take him down. Madison blew it.

(plus, this involves International organized crime, soooo.... myeah... not smart.)

Hi Mr. Hamberg, @ r273!

How is your grifter lifestyle going?

It’s too high profile now. To do something would just bring more attention. Madi is fine.

R157 proven to be an idiot with the new details about the court hearings

"A friend thinks the dad was a government agent that’s why the cops stepped back."

I actually thought the same thing. If the father was involved in shady dealings for the government in the Middle East or Russia (which is not that far-fetched, think of Iran-Contra scandal), then I can understand why he cannot talk about it.

He is still a monster for the way he talks to his son, damn! That was just cold.

Let's not jump to conclusions about Madision. He has the luxury, as the "director," to paint himself a nice guy on a journey to get to the bottom of his mom's murder. He could be a spoiled little asshole who treats his family like shit. For some reason, I suspect that to be true. His dad probably hates the little bitch and knows he's too stupid to handle any kind of truth.

Jeffrey, is that you again at r278?

"His dad probably hates the little bitch and knows he's too stupid to handle any kind of truth."

He may not be a saint but let's not pretend the deadbeat dad is an angel

If the Dad didn't do it he wouldn't maliciously say to his own son that his dead mother was a crazy alcoholic. Especially because she had stopped drinking before she died. He is justifying killing her without even knowing it by speaking of her that way to his son. If you love your children, you don't talk about their dead mother negatively when you know how much they are hurting and miss her. Even if he is trying to cover for all his shady business dealings, he still doesn't have to be so cruel when talking to his children about their murdered mother. He SO did it.

R281 must be a Frau. A woman would definitely talk shit about her dead hubby if the roles were switched. Take your “women are perfect & infallible” bullshit elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with women being infallible, which they aren't. It has everything to do with the guilty father not being able to hide his hatred for the mother from his own children. If he were innocent, he would understand thar trashing his children's mother makes their suffering worse. Why would he want to make his children feel worse if didn't kill her?

I don't know where you got that women are infallible shit from my post, r282. She was obviously into a lot of shady stuff with that gifting table crap, but I do think she loved her kids.

Oh and I'm not a frau, not that I care what you think.

I am a frau and while daddy was a trash, mother was bitch too, she was no better. Sorry, who cares that she stopped drinking before her death when children was almost grew up? when they were small, she was drinking like pig and she left them with her even worse, more drunk, drugged sister. WTF. She was a cheater , like her husband and she would have ended up in jail, like her friend.

Playing the devil's advocate, and to be fair to the father, he didn't start trashing Barb until Madison kept pushing him for reasons for the divorce. The dad was happier not to speak of Barb at all. It's not like he was always trying to get his kids' love back by poisoning Madison's mind against Barb. Remember, we're only getting the portrait of the father Madison wants us to see.

I mean, the father is a probably a dangerous creep, but fair is fair...

"I am a frau and while daddy was a trash, mother was bitch too, she was no better."

He was a deadbeat who didn't pay child support. She took care of the kids. You're not a "frau" - you're one of the MRA trolls

"The dad was happier not to speak of Barb at all. "

Yeah, he was happier just to abandon his wife and kids to travel around the world and ignore them

R286 if a woman did that you’d be all “YASSSS KWEEEEENNNNN!!! EAT PRAY LOVE!!!!!”

R286 she took care of the kids- lol what you mean by that?

r288, they were living with her. She didn't abandon them. Her husband did.

R289 thats her only achievement. In my country they would take children away from her. She raised drug addicts. Thank god, they stopped, but that ali is weird. I wouldnt be surprosed if she will start drink or use drugs again.

R290, a lot of Americans are drug addiction. Are you going to blame the parents in every case, or will you hold people responsible for their own actions? If you insist on blaming the parents, why not blame the dad for abandoning him?

I blame Grandma!

Sorry, that should read "a lot of Americans are drug addicts"

When I saw the gay pride flag hanging prominently from the church where the memorial service was held at the end, I thought that the Big Reveal would be that the mom was the victim of some lesbian domestic violence incident.

R294 totally possible. Percentage-wise Lesbian relationships have the highest domestic violence level.

Barb definitely gave off lesbian vibes in her later years. I can totally see it.

In my opinion lots of straight New England women give off lesbian vibes. They don’t go in much for makeup or clothes and they’re a little blunt in tone and humorless in attitude compared to women in other regions, but they’re 100 percent straight.

Yeah, r297, until the "right" lady comes along.

But what was the gay pride flag doing there? It seems like the mom didn't have any relationships after the divorce, except for those "gals only" gifting [or grifting] tables.

You just know there will be a part 2 to this documentary (he only got the police files at the very end), so maybe they left the lesbian stuff for the sequel?

I say that only partly in jest because there were a lot of major plot twists in the documentary.

Actually, r299, that's exactly how the mini-series was written....withholding vital info until the next episode for a big reveal. I can totally see them introducing a lesbian angle in Part II.

R297, I would have used Meridith Baxter Bernie as a prime example of this phenomenon up until a few years ago. So not a good example.

But they usually are straight. They just have that masculine NE energy.

Bump.

Is there any news on Part II? After reading that interview I think he's playing us for his career. And his family that he himself revealed shows why he might be like that.

It’s been revealed that the son, the one who made the documentary, is the actual killer.

Madison Hamburg is one of the hottest men in the US

I spell his name Madysyn. Because he is your typical twat. And yes, this entire thing is to build his career. Its creepy as balls. And he looks JUST like a younger version of his dad. No thanks.

But the big mystery is: why doesn’t the eldergay on the Yale law team (ep. 4) get some eyework done? And who’s had him?

The dad was well connected with shady business deals all over the world. No doubt he could easily hire a hit man. That’s what happened.

[Quote] Madison Hamburg is one of the hottest men in the US

Maybe before he got fat

I'd kill anyone who gave me the name Madison Hamburg

Mary McCormack as Conway for the inevitable TV movie!

Well, I keep asking who the mom was fucking. You always look at the victim’s closest acquaintance and move outward from there. I could see her being lesbian, and was surprised that there wasn’t a man somewhere. She was attractive.

My father was a deadbeat with the child support. And my husband’s was, too. Our mothers said the hell with it and didn’t bother chasing after the money. They worked their asses off and raised us right. Barbara just went deeper into debt and lawsuits trying to get money from that shithead. And then she got messed up in that pyramid scheme, defrauding people for easy money. Why didn’t she just get a fucking JOB and remarry and move on with her life? She was hung up on revenge and reparation, which was just never going to happen.

I’m sorry she was murdered, but she doesn’t sound all that great to me.

R311, is the world a better place without her?

Aunt Conway is quite a nasty piece of work.

I want Aunt Conway to sit next to me at the next family reunion!

She’ll cut you in a second

"I'd kill anyone who named me Madison Hamburg."

Especially if I was born and bred in Madison, Connecticut.

R316, he was born in Atlanta. The Madison house was like a summer home and then they moved there after the dad was fired.

R317, what a coincidence that he moved to a town with the same name he had.

Thank goodness he wasn't named Poughkeepsie

Isn't the crazy aunt's name Conway Beach? And don't they all live on the Connecticut shore?

It's all very confusing!!!

Just out of curiosity, what does Madison do for a living outside of filming this documentary? I don't recall it being mentioned at all throughout all 4 episodes. Was he on HBO's payroll the whole time he was filming this?

Wasn't the recovering alcoholic great uncle/grandfather/whatever called Sandy Beach? It's clear we're dealing with some very odd people here.

Not reading all this thread yetbbecause I am only on the 3rd episode. But WTF is with the Gifting Table? You just pay $5,000 and you don't get any product or anything? At least with scAmway you got some cleaning supplies from it.

R322, you have to bring in people under you. And then they have to bring in people, etc. When you’ve brought in enough people, you get paid.

“I’m a dessert!”

R322, you have to gift people tables

Conway turned into a bloated boozy mess which makes me wonder if she had a guilty conscience

I am also curious what Madison does for a living, maybe he lived off his inheritance?

I don't trust his sister either but being raised by that screwed up family would effect you.

Does Madison have an onlyfans?

I think Madison got better looking the older he got.

I don't think they have alot of money as a family anymore. The father lost most of it.

Yes, Madison is handsome, but nothing more than most guys his age. He at the "I'm at the peak of my handsomeness" phase that evolution stuck so he can spread his seed around. He's enhanced that working out some.

He's definitely a sharp guy who gives a great speech. There were some scenes where it looked like he had gained weight, and the looks sharply declined in those.

The average guy Madison's age is not as attractive as Madison r330. We all wish everyone was that attractive, but that's not the case.

I'm only 25 and just as handsome!

Wouldn’t you be posted to have worked on all these billion dollar money laundering deals and have nothing to show for it?