Biden Affirms: “I Will Eliminate Your Student Debt”

It's good for everyone. This is the first generation not taking part in the housing market at all even into their early thirties. This will reverse that trend. That should also reduce rent in inner cities. A rising tide lifts all boats, etc.

[quote]you come from a family [making less] than $125,000 and went to a public university.

What about people without families that make less than 125K?

It's 10k, OP. Not the entire student loan. Your title is misleading.

What about those of us who did not take out student debt and went to crappier schools we could afford?

$10K is probably the yearly interest expense on most student loans.

GOSH I HOPE SO! i'm in my 50's and i still owe 50 thousand!... personally i've always thought that ALL student loan debt should be forgiven if let's say it's been 10 years plus since you graduated from college.. whether that amount is 10 thousand or 100 thousand...

I do worry though it will be one of those a) you have to work a service govt job or at a non profit or b) after you have continued payments for a few years (just less than what is going on now).....

R4 that's great. You also don't get food stamps of you're not poor and don't get the child tax credit if you don't have kids. This is how policy works

Good luck getting that through a Republican majority senate.

Good.

As long as Biden also looks into the corporatist policies that brought about this heinous system.

He also should not take the younger generation for granted after this largesse.

He needs to take up other promises on the issues that young people with student loans care about such as climate change and universal healthcare.

[quote]What about those of us who did not take out student debt and went to crappier schools we could afford?

You get to pay higher taxes to fund debt forgiveness.

I’ve subscribed to the fact that I may or may not get a house. But I’m okay about it now, I’ve accepted it. If he doesn’t cancel it entirely than they need low-income/middle class people to choose: a college degree or a house?

That's it? $10K?? My loans have been sold back and forth so many times and each time, they tack on a mid-5 figure "handling fee." My loan went from the initial sum (which was just under $100K) to nearly $500K between interest and fees. I'm never going to be able to pay that off and it's ridiculous that I have to.

R8 for student loans he doesn't need congress. That's the whole beauty of it. Most if those loans are ultimately held by the Department of Education, even if they are serviced by a third party like Sallie Mae or Great Lakes. The Secretary of Education can just choose to forgive the debt. Congress has no say. Privately held debt he would need congress for

I don’t agree with this. What about people who already paid off their loans? Everyone should get $10,000 if we’re giving handouts to people who didn’t manage their money properly.

So do I get $10,000 for the student loans I paid off?

Seems only fair. My family are all immigrants and I had to pay my own way.

R2 exactly, how does this work? I’m single and don’t have a family. Is he cutting singles out of it? Why just public university? Most of my debts come from doctoral program at a private university, whereas my master’s and bachelor’s degrees were from public universities. All of my student loans were through the government/ Dept of Education.

How about loan forgiveness for healthcare providers?

R14 and r15 see R7

I would kill for 10K instead of the hundreds of thousands I have to pay off.

Great. So those of us who could not afford to go to college can pay the fees for people who will earn ten times more than us over the course of their lifetime. Sounds fair.

Over the past three years, I paid $20,000 for a Masters Degree. I paid cash and spread the courses over three years so that I could work to pay for my education. Guess I screwed myself over for being too responsible.

Oh of course we're going to hear all the whiners now- I paid my loan, where's my handout!?!?

Go complain to the banks who got bailed out in 2008. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

R19 have you screwed yourself by not becoming a farmer and making yourself ineligible for the aid Trump gave during the trade war?

So, those of us who responsibly economized and paid-off our student loans are SOL - nice.

Of course, they also won't have the usual negative tax consequences of forgiven debt.

People who make poor choices should not be favored or given special dispensation. Now, if they wanted to give EVERYONE money to do as they please, that's a whole separate matter. And, if those people choose not to payoff their student loans with that money, that's on them.

It's ALWAYS the responsible people who don't run up credit card debt to fund their lifestyles or make purchases within their means who inevitably end up funding the idiots.

R19 is the perfect example of why Republicans win elections.

Donald Trump paid $750 in taxes in 2016, skipping out on hundreds of thousands or millions owed to the Feds. Crickets.

You know some guy who went to a liberal arts college, took out a loan and is struggling financially at his dead-end job. Biden forgives part of his loan. Release the hounds!!!!

If someone has student loan debt of 100,000 or more, then they should have gone to a school they can afford. or be working in a job to pay it off. If I want a Maserati, but can only afford a Honda, I dont go in debt for the Maserati. Its called common sense. There are also a lot of local colleges that are quite affordable AND reputable, but I guess that isnt as cool as going to an out of state college because my friends go there or its the "it" school of the day. Im not surprised though...this is the generation who replaces thier 1000,00 dollar phones ANNUALLY just because they CAN.

I cut back on lots of purchases and didn’t go on trips I wanted to go on in order to pay off my student loans. Doing so delayed my ability to save up for a down payment on a house for a decade.

Why shouldn’t I be reimbursed? Paying me back will stimulate the economy.

What about ME? What about ME? What about ME? Selfish selfish selfish selfish.

GUESS WHAT? No public policy can perfectly capture every single goddamn scenario. If you are in a position where you don’t “fit” this plan, sure it sucks....but can you not see that this will benefit our economy as a whole, and therefore STILL SUPPORT IT???? Or will you only support something if it benefits ME only, hmmmm???? Can you imagine people talking like this during the New Deal???? “I didn’t use the soup kitchens, but we aren’t rich and helped poor people, why can’t we get a bigger piece of the pie?”

Short-sighted shameless selfishness pricks.

Biden is lying. He isn't going to do any such thing.

Who's going to pick up the fees for the write-offs?

The people who have degrees will earn several times more than working class people who couldn't afford to go to college or who weren't encouraged by their families to prepare for college. Why should the working poor have to pay for someone else's privilege?

I agree with giving poor people (e.g. struggling farmers) a break. But this action will give the future upper class a break.

Fuck off r27, god forbid you actually want other people to not have it so shitty. Asshole.

R23 is right. The voters republicans do well with are people who cannot fathom doing any good in the world just because it's beneficial to society. If they don't personally get something, then there's no point. It's short sighted, stupid, and shows a lack of basic human empathy but this is how much of our society is run these days

The r28, because that’s how a tax system works. We all throw our money into the pot, then our elected officials decide how to carve up the pot. My fourth grader gets it, and she’s slow.

I gotta get out of this thread. It's pissing me off. It's impossible to have a conversation about this topic on here. It always devolves into a bunch of mealy mouthed whiners who think those of us who are struggling with student loan debt are some kind of grifters looking to get over. Doesn't matter that everyone's circumstances are different.

You can all go fuck yourselves.

Only 35% of the population goes to college. Why should the 65% of Americans who did not attend university subsidize the educational costs of that 35%, - especially when they will be earning more because of those degrees?

The only truly universal aid the government has given in modern times were the $1200 checks from the first Covid bill. Literally EVERYTHING else only goes to specific groups of people and you only qualify if you're part of the group. Social Security and medicare to seniors. The child tax credit just for people with children. Mammogram vouchers for poor women. Cash payments to farmers affected by tariffs. Section 8 housing for poor people.

I don't qualify for a single program I just named. But I pay for all of it. As do all of you. This aid will be no different. That's just what being a tax paying citizen is. Get over it

BULLSHIT r32. You’re getting called out. I have zero problem discussing the pros and cons. But when one gets into the “unfairness” of trying to level the playing field in an unfair fight, then I’ll kick your fucking ass. There’s a big difference between asking, how are we going to do this vs this is sooooooo unfair because I did everything “right” but now these people are getting helped but I’m not, waaaaaaah? Admit it — you’re jealous. It’s that simple, it’s jealousy.

R35, I think R32 is on your side.

R29 I never said I was against Biden doing this. I said he's not going to do it and he won't.

Yeah, R35 is so in attack mode he's attacking his own side.

Is this going to be the only bailout? Because now I'm thinking maybe I could use a PhD.

R32 Stay, don't leave. This is an important thread. Naturally, it's complex. People are trying to be honest, not cunty.

R38 I 100% get the frustration at boomers collecting trillions in medicare and Social security having there nerve to lecture us, people who work for a living to pay for them to sit on their ass and watch the Price is Right.

You know what r38? Of course I’m in attack mode. This site has been overrun with trolls, ignorance, and stupidity. We FINALLY have a President who understands and believe that government can change the game, and then people bitch about me me me? SICK of it. Sorry/not sorry.

If someone here has an actual legitimate policy-argument about how this will negatively impact the economy or society, let’s fucking hear it!!

r41...you just blew your case. People PAY INTO Social Security and Medicare THEIR ENTIRE LIVES TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT. Its like an insurance policy.

R41, this has nothing to do about social security/medicare. And this is not a generational issue. I'm Generation X. My blue-collar dad paid for me to go to college when I was in my late teens/early 20s. And I paid for my Masters degree in my 40s. Both times, I went to a local (cheap) state school within driving distance.

R43 I am am a life insurance actuary. And in college my senior thesis was on the long term solvency of the social security administration so I know what I'm talking about. Let's clarify something:

Social Security as it currently exists is not solvent and has not been for decades. It was only solvent when people usually died at 70-75 and so didn't collect that long. Now people spend a third of their lives collecting and it was never meant to handle that. No one under 40 will see a dime of it. There's a decent chance no one under 50 will.

So the people paying into now are doing so for absolutely no payoff. Just so older folks don't starve to death

[quote]Only 35% of the population goes to college. Why should the 65% of Americans who did not attend university subsidize the educational costs of that 35%, - especially when they will be earning more because of those degrees?

And this pretty much is the end of the conversation as far as I’m concerned.

I hope this faces a lot of hurdles and doesn’t go through.

R44, that was a different time. I’m also Gen X and paid for my Masters working a a gas station.

As with unemployment benefits, money given to student loan relief goes directly into the economy. Not the case with tax cuts for capital gains or corporations.

R46 I'm curious. Do you have children?

r45... You need a different job because you are obviously lousy at yours. SS is not insolvent. IT NEVER WAS. That is strictly a GOP talking point to aid in their mission to dismantle SS and Medicare. If you are so worried about SS being insolvent, then maybe you should be demanding the GOP pay back the 2.9 TRILLION dollars they pilfered from SS in the guise of a "loan" under the Reagan and Bush administrations AND NEVER PAID BACK.

Preach r49. Unfortunately for them, they are now dealing with an electorate who is much much more informed, dramatically so from even five years ago.

The trolls on this thread sound like Dump at Arlington dissing the fallen soldiers - what was in it for them? They think they're being made chumps and losers.

Public policy isn't supposed to be a zero-sum game - i.e., if someone else wins, I lose. We all pay taxes that fund programs we don't benefit from directly, and some of us get tax deductions that don't apply to everyone. If all you can think about is "where's mine?", you are not a very responsible citizen. Shame on you.

Lol I'm not going to argue it. If you want to educate yourself, which I doubt, here is the SSA actuarial report on the topic. Based on current trajectories the fund is expected to be solvent until 2034 by their accounting. In real life it's probably a little longer than that because there are a few ways congress can drag it out and get another couple years. But by 2040 something completely different will need to exist or the payroll tax will need to be raised dramatically. That is mathematical fact. Again I do this for a living.

Eliminating student debt is one of the stupidest ideas ever. Not ONE single person was forced to take on a single penny of debt to attend college. You either 1) go where you can afford to pay, 2) only take on debt that you figure out a way to pay back, or 3) don't go. Student debt is exactly like every other kind of debt: you went into it knowing you would have to pay it back.

No one is going to say, "I want to buy that $500,000 house but I really don't want or think that I should have to pay for it after a couple years." I also don't believe any corporation...especially the thieving Trump Org.... should be forgiven any debt either. No one should be forgiven debt when they willingly took it on in the first place. Period.

This isn't a "me, me, me" thing. It is a grown-up taking responsibility thing. It is an economic thing.

r52...Again...GET A NEW JOB. I am old enough to have directly witnessed the GOP looting Social Security and assuring the public that the money was a "LOAN". Im also old enough to know THEY NEVER PAID IT BACK. Im also old enough to tell you, they have been saying the same things for over 40 years...and every decade they move the goal post.

NO r53. Here’s the reality — you need a college degree to even keep food on the table, and NO ONE can afford it!!!!! We have told multiple generations that higher education is the key to the American dream. People listened to that, because it was and still is true. But they can’t afford it!!!!! Even IF a kid stays at home, goes to community college for an associate degree, then still lives at home to finish a bachelor degree — they CANNOT afford it. That is wrong. It’s totally unfair.

I would be okay with characterizing it as an advance on one's Social Security -- one that would only need to be "repaid" if/when an individual earns above the SS earnings cap (currently around $140,000). These high-earners would have to continue to pay SS tax on the entirety of their earnings. That would help quell some of the opposition, I think ... and if R52, it will all be moot, anyway.

Social Security and Medicare are privately funded by the recipients. It is not taxpayer funded.

People need to be more realistic when choosing schools. If your student loan is going to take more than 10 years to pay off, chances are you are not going to pay it off.

Let the universities and colleges reimburse these fools.

R34 I want to give you a nice, slow bj.

For the first six years after college I worked two jobs so I could pay off my student loan. No, I didn't enjoy working evening shifts and weekends, and not having vacations. But I did it, and managed to pay down most of the principal ahead of time. And I have absolutely no problem with a program that will give people getting some college debt relief now.

Hey r58? Please show us the list of schools where you receive a 4-year degree for less than $10k. I’m so excited to see what you post!!!! Can’t wait to see all these schools these leeches could be choosing instead of their elite Ivy League educations, these morons!!!

R59, tell us your backstory, can’t wait to hear your “pulled myself up by the bootstraps” story!!!

R54 I have no idea if the GOP did that a long time ago. But even if that were true it doesn't affect the reality that the fund will run out decades before I hit 65. There isn't a 3 trillion that's going to materialize and replenish the fund. It is just reality that I pay for boomers to get benefits I will not receive in my lifetime. And I understand it anyway because I genuinely don't want old people to live in abject poverty.

[Quote] Social Security and Medicare are privately funded by the recipients. It is not taxpayer funded.

This is so wrong I'm not sure it was stated in good faith but I'll try anyway. The payroll tax immediately goes out to pay the benefits of recipients. None of it is saved and accumulates anywhere. That's why it's going insolvent. The ratio of people over 65 to the working age population used to be tiny. Three working people for every retiree. So it was easy to find it that way. Now the ratio is nearly 1 to 1. Impossible for that to work long term

[quote]Here’s the reality — you need a college degree to even keep food on the table, and NO ONE can afford it!!!!!

While I agree with you that college costs are completely out of whack, it's not true that you need a college degree to do well. None of my brothers went to college and they all make six figures in the trades. All but one of my nephews skipped college and they all purchased homes in the last few years, in their early to mid 20s. (And their jobs can't be outsourced to another country.)

In addition to radically overhauling college price structures, we need to make trade schools and other career paths more attractive.

List of Realistic Colleges for Average Americans:

Trump University DeVry Liberty U

R64, ok, that’s is totally true. You want to explain to me what high paying jobs are out there for women? For fem gays? You expect us all to become plumbers and welders?

I agree with you — but that little bandaid does not fix this broken system, sorry toots.

R62, how much do you owe?

R55, you really think it's a good idea to close your argument with the, "It's totally unfair" card? You weren't on the debate team at your overpriced university, were you.

Let me guess: you're also living in some urban center where you are paying $2,000 a month for rent? What sort of vehicle are you driving? Maybe you need to make different life choices.

Again, I'd love to live in a $500,000 house (I live somewhere where that means something because housing is relatively affordable), but I know that I can't do it UNLESS I AM WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. Just like I had to purchase a house for much less than that, people should be purchasing their college degrees accordingly as well.

You first r67.

Here’s a clue — I owe sizable chunk of money, I’ve been paying for twenty years, and we make way too much to benefit from this....and yet I STILL support this. Crazy, right?!?!? Doesn’t make ANY sense, yeah?!? Why would I support something that doesn’t help me?????????????????

Now it’s your turn.

R68, I live in Chicagoland in a posh suburb, have a beautiful home worth more than that, have lots of money in retirement, have two new cars. I pay $700 a month for my loans. We make too much to benefit — and I totally support this. Now what, bitch?

For those of you who feel you have overwhelming student debt, I'm very curious as to what you thought when you signed up for it? Did you do any math? Did you really think about HOW you were going to actually pay it back? I don't understand how anyone takes on a penny of debt for any reason without having a game plan on how to pay it back.

[quote] Good luck getting that through a Republican majority senate.

Republicans may not be holding the Senate and Biden is going to be signing executive orders.

R71 = dropout

[quote] For those of you who feel you have overwhelming student debt, I'm very curious as to what you thought when you signed up for it? Did you do any math? Did you really think about HOW you were going to actually pay it back? I don't understand how anyone takes on a penny of debt for any reason without having a game plan on how to pay it back.

You truly are a moron.

I don't get why people get so up in arms about alleviating student debt, but they're perfectly fine with massive corporate bailouts, billions of dollars in wasted military spending, motherfucking churches getting away without paying any taxes, etc.

R75 it's how republicans work. Help the rich and then get the poor tonight each other over what scraps remain.

Because r75, “what about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?”

I'm against this. Sure student debt is bad, but this does nothing to combat the Colleges+Bankers notorious ponzi scheme of getting a wildly overpriced "education".

Nobody forced the students into this rotten deal, why do I the taxpayer need to bail them out? Lots of other Dems think this is a terrible place to start, and it won't even get the youngsters to vote because nothing in the universe will ever do that. They showed up in paltry numbers AGAIN, but now are getting rewarded? Is that a good message?

Even state colleges cost an arm and a leg. People who go to school are the future of this country. These loans are outrageous and parents are also still paying their kid’s debt. Should we not have doctors? Should we just expect them to go to crappy universities? These schools cost shitloads and we all benefit from those who graduate.

This chart is appalling.

R70, then what are you bitching about? So you're posting on behalf of the "poor kids of today?" I lived at home, drove the family car, and went to a public university. I wouldn't have thought about going to a private school or living on my own. I also worked hard in school to be educated enough to qualify for academic scholarships.

Borrowing money means paying back money.

[quote] Nobody forced the students into this rotten deal

They have. It’s a scam. If you want to go to school you’re looking at debut for the next two decades.

Ok r78, I’ll play.....so millions do NOT go to college. They now work in Target. They want to have a family and own their own home. Tell me how they get there — go!!

I believe they’re predatorial lending going on too. This woman owes 500K from acupuncture school. I think the school and the bank may be predators.

[quote] I lived at home, drove the family car, and went to a public university.

Listen faggot, colleges don’t cost what they did when you went. Sit the fuck down and eat your food.

[quote] and it won't even get the youngsters to vote because nothing in the universe will ever do that. They showed up in paltry numbers AGAIN, but now are getting rewarded? Is that a good message?

You might want to walk that back. The younger vote broke 65% for Biden. If you take that number away and leave it to older voters, you'd be welcoming Trump for a second term.

R75, you are 100% incorrect. I'm opposed to all of those things you have listed as well. I just don't think adding to the list helps out society. Instead of adding to the list, we should be getting rid of the things you have listed.

[quote]this does nothing to combat the Colleges+Bankers notorious ponzi scheme of getting a wildly overpriced "education".

Yes, I think it's just as important to address this part of the equation ... though I doubt it will be, and we'll be having the same conversation in 20 years.

R84 it's because educational loans are uniquely exempt from bankruptcy. If you're a bank, you normally need to have discretion over who you loan to and how much because of the chance you won't get it back if they file for bankruptcy.

With educational loans there is no possible relief so no incentive for lenders not to load you up with as much as possible.

Ironically if the GOP actually believed in the free market as opposed to using it as a talking point, they would support letting students file for bankruptcy if they can't pay

[quote]Ok [R78], I’ll play.....so millions do NOT go to college. They now work in Target. They want to have a family and own their own home. Tell me how they get there — go!!

Oh, so it's a binary situation? You sound unhinged. Don't go into playwriting, or dramaturgy, you've no gift for it.

What am I bitching about r81?!?!?? I’m bitching at YOU bitch. I’m bitching at the posters who blame these people. I’m bitching at the posters who don’t understand that people are boxed in to poverty — there’s NO WAY OUT except high education. I’m bitching at the myth of the “affordable college education “. I’m bitching at people “going where they can afford to go”. It’s LIES. I’ve had enough fucking lies for the last five years. No more!!!! We NEED to fight for people to have a FAIR SHOT at the American Dream, and if you don’t like it, too fucking goddamn bad. We are DONE with watching the rich LOOT while they flip off the poor. FUCK YOU, I actually care about someone besides myself.

Way to not answer the question r90. If there is a solution, back your shit up bitch.

R80 Why are Vet Benefits and Services separate from the Military Budget. That's a military thing and I fell that at least 20-30% of the Military Budget should be required to go to paying for the vets after their service.

Wait? Where’s the list of affordable colleges? Where’s the flowchart of how to support a family working retail?

State schools are very expensive today.

R92 the chart is misleading. That's just "discretionary spending". It doesn't include entitlements that the government *must* pay like medicare, medicaid, and social security which are most of the budget. Here is the budget including the mandatory and discretionary parts

R95 the word “entitlement” it makes you sound like Paul Ryan, FYI.

R87, I would rather invest in helping out a huge percentage of the American population and give them a boost so they can become active contributors to a more robust economy. Nobody is benefitting from the situation as it is. People think having all of these young people in debt isn't their problem/doesn't affect them/too bad, so sad -- oh, but it does affect so many other people/industries.

The Federal Loan scam is a mess. If you have a federal loan, and you've been making monthly payments for years, and your outstanding balance is barely moving, you know what I mean. Where do you think your monthly payments are going? Our government is directly profiting off us. They're worse than landlords, who also directly profit from citizens while doing almost nothing. Maddening.

R97, you’re trying to get people to actually put themselves into someone else’s shoes....the GOP has officially made that unAmerican.

R96 wasn't trying to give that impression. It's also called "mandatory spending". Economists and others use the terms interchangeably.

I mostly just get annoyed when people say the military is most of the budget because it isn't true. it's a pet peeve mine. But I don't think people who receive aid from mandatory programs should feel bad or that we should stop doing it.

(I *do* think they should be more empathetic to others that need help, which some of the SS recipients on this thread have not been)

Here are the trends in college pricing for 2020 from the College Board:

In 2020-21, the average published tuition and fees for full-time undergraduate students for a public, four-year in-state university is $10,560 per year.

That seems affordable to me. You should be able to pay for that with a part-time job. R94 (and others), what say ye?

Any benefit program is going to fund some people’s dumb choices, like having 100k in loans for a Masters in Anthropology.

That said, of all the shitty things the US government funds, this doesn’t bother me. And I paid off my student loans.

However, when I listen to people complain about debt they CHOSE to get into, and how it is owed to them to be forgiven, I don’t think highly of those people.

College should be more competitive and free. Start trade schools, code schools. Everyone doesn’t NEED a degree.

Thank you r100 for clarifying.

R101, please cite which page you are pulling those numbers from, that’s a huge doc.

[quote]You should be able to pay for that with a part-time job.

What kind of part-time jobs are these??

R96, when you don’t have a logical response, just start with the ad hominems.

Loan relief is not a good solution if they don't address the predatory nature of student loans first.

R62 is off her meds and in great need of a pair of glasses.

R22 Do you mind paying for Medicaid for my lazy frau cousin who refuses to work? For ineffective services for the homeless? There are a lot of things we pay for...

R101, that quote I site is in the highlights on page 3 but is also shown in table CP-1 on page 10. It also shows that Room and Board is more than the tuition. That's where the bullshit begins; live at home and commute. People are borrowing tons of money to live in greek houses and dorms and party with their friends.

R104, you don't think it is possible to find a part-time job that will pay you $10,560 a year?! That's $203 a week. Even working only 20 hours, that's clearing $10.15 an hour.

R99, I think it would also be politically advantageous for Biden/Democrats to address this. If they move forward with this, they retain a huge chunk of two generations of voters, possibly for a lifetime.

Then these people must be living at home with no rent, no bills, no food expenses, no car payment, no car insurance, no expenses for clothes etc, R108.

I would be indebted to Democrats, R109.

We can't do the "I didn't get any help when I had student loans" nonsense.

Colleges, even state colleges, are gotten ridiculously expensive at this point. I think even the UC system is about $35,000 a year.

Sure, you may say, just go to a community college then--the problem is your chance at a great career diminishes significantly with a community college on your resume.

For those of you who hate socialism, those evil socialist countries pay for college educations because they understand the advantage their economies get with an educated population.

Oh please r105, that word is indeed embedded in GOP talking points, I know that wounds you.

R110, math isn’t their strength. You cannot exist for less than $20k a year — I’m talking housing, food, transportation, and then the tuition of $10,500 is on TOP of that. So now we are at 35k per year to not go into debt. So......AGAIN I ask, show me the jobs that will allow a kid to work PART-TIME while in school full-time, that equal $35k per year.

They won’t answer that because there isn’t an answer.

[quote] Colleges, even state colleges, are gotten ridiculously expensive at this point.

Hell -- even community college prices have inflated since I attended at 18. In my state, it used to be $11 per unit. Now it's $46 per unit. And that's within less than a 20-year span.

R110, thank you. If you go to page 10, the left table, drop down to the bottom line. A public 4-year school with room and board is $22, 200.

Everyone here arguing that these people are just sponges and bad decision-makers keep saying “live at home.” How many here live right next to a public university where this is even an option? I have a shit ton of private schools here, not many public options that would allow a student to actually live at home.

Sorry, above was for r101.

R101, if you look at page three, it says that the estimated cost for 2020/2021 tuition + r&b is $26,820. Does that really sound doable for a regular family to you?

If I may be so bold, do you mind sharing your age here? I appreciate your post, you are at least bringing a valid source to this discussion.

[quote] People who make poor choices should not be favored or given special dispensation

The problem is the rich like to pretend they got there strictly by their own doing and the poor must be poor because of choices they made.

I hate the idea of interest on student debt.

Students should be able to take on debt and then have to repay it slowly, maybe by garnishing wages. There shouldnt be interest on the debt.

[quote] Loan relief is not a good solution if they don't address the predatory nature of student loans first.

We can actually do both simultaneously!

^^^^this. It’s the old “bootstraps” nonsense.

Most people are clueless about inter-generational poverty. They wouldn’t know the first thing about how to move up from the lower to middle class. They’ve had an entire network of business contacts handed to them on a golden platter, and then turn around and essentially victim-blame working class families trying to give their kids a better life.

Meant above for r118

[quote] The problem is the rich like to pretend they got there strictly

The real problem is the wannabe-not-even-rich like to align themselves with the filthy rich who are really just manipulating them into anger over other people getting just a little bit of help.

The interest is a travesty.

Most Americans don’t go to college. If you think the white ones are angry about black people getting stuff they dont get, wait til the “elites” get “free college.” The white working class is going be pissed. They bitch about paying fir Obamacare, now ‘the libs are giving free money to other libs.”

They can stuff it. The same people that elected Trump then went begging him for money when he put in place the tariffs he promised he would during the campaign. Their farms were failing due to their own stupidity in not understanding how global trade works. But still I had to pay to make them whole. They can be angry about us getting help if the want.

[quote] If you think the white ones are angry

Nobody cares. They're always angry and a lost cause, and speaking of community college/trades, they're the real ones who should be sharpening their skills a little bit, because their industries are dying and never coming back.

I sold my ass to pay my monthly expenses and graduated from the Ivy League with honors. They gave me full tuition. There is NO WAY minimum wage would have paid enough for me to live and eat and buy the supplies of my program. I was A WHORE, instead of taking loans. Now, do I get 10K for wear and tear on my ass and throat? You people who took student loan money for food and rent and books etc, while studying - you didn't WORK YOUR ASS literally like I did. I WANT MY HO HANDOUT.

[QUOTE] Sure, you may say, just go to a community college then--the problem is your chance at a great career diminishes significantly with a community college on your resume.

R112 Bullshit. When you go to a community college and transfer to a four-year institution, nowhere on your diploma will it indicate you went to a CC. There’s no asterisk, no red ink. And I have yet to see an employer ask for a transcript.

It might make a slight difference if you go to professional school, but that’s been changing rather quickly. In my own group of friends, the kid who insisted on going to Berkeley far from home fared way worse than the kid who went to community college, then a local Cal State (while commuting from home). The latter kid is now in medical school at USC while the Berkeley kid is “figuring out life.” Seen this time and time again.

I agree with that r129 — or most of that. But are you saying going to elite schools makes zero difference in one’s career trajectory?

Joe didn't mention the way he'll pay for this is by a raising taxes on everyone. Not just the $400,000 plus earners.

R131 you're full of shit. He doesn't need to pay for it. He can just do it by executive action. We already take on debt every year

Tax the churches. Make those motherfuckers pay their fair share.

R131, cite your source — or FUCK OFF. We aren’t in the mood.

R130 For the average person, it really doesn’t. Unless you’re planning on being an elite master of the universe, where connections matter, sure, it might make a difference. But for the average teacher, principal, lawyer, engineer, doctor, dentist, pharmacist, hospital adminstrator, accountant, etc (ie 99.9% of the population), plenty of “average school” grads do very well for themselves, and plenty of elite school grads remain average. You can overcome any perceived disadvantage by working hard.

I graduated almost 10 years ago with a masters in chemical engineering and owed over $100,000 in student loans. I paid on them diligently for years until my father died and I was able to pay them off. Being debt free is an amazing feeling. It's better than being in love.

If I were president, I would eliminate every single fucking penny of student debt held by everyone, good or bad people, defaulters or good payers. No, it's not fair. Then I would pass a law that ALL accredited Bachelor programs in the US be listed to 8000 a year in tuition - for 2 semesters. 4K a semester. Every college, private or public. Then I would work on programs to favor lowing that to 2K a semester in tuition, tops, within 5 years. Every college. The states will have to figure out how to refinance higher education. The private universities that can't figure this out through endowment and fund-raising - fuck them. Good bye. End of "cost of higher ed" problem for 30 years at least.

[quote] Nobody cares. They're always angry and a lost cause,

Well that “lost cause” held onto the senate & picked up lots of seats in Congress. They also hold many state legislatures. And they’ve got SCOTUS now.

The lost cause sure wins a lot. The presidency is only one branch of govt. There are special elections coming up & midterms in 2022. Let’s see how many of those lost causes show up at the polls vs democrats who think everything is fine now that Biden won.

Be LIMITED to 8K. They can charge less, but not more.

Thats a rough calculation of what a 50% time minimum wage job pays over 10 months.

It's op to 4x the cost of higher ed in other civilized, rich, post industrial countries. Where tuition is usually about 1K a semester, at most.

R134 - Mood or no mood, it's a fair question. All of these bennies the left keeps talking about aren't free. Most Western governments have been printing money, so to speak, like drunken sailors, especially in the wake of the pandemic. The enormity of national debts is one day going to fall in on itself like a house of cards.

More realistic is paid for university education at the start, not the end, but that also means a more rigorous system of who gets in. You don't get uni paid for if you can't pass the entrance exam and post high secondary school scores.

As for the $400,000 "cutoff" for the "tax the rich" mantra: one thing rich people know how to do is protect their money, and you have a Senate still held by Republicans already mouthing ye olde "we're going back to fiscal responsibility" bullshit (George Bush raised the debt to unholy levels, if I remember, and then bailed out Wall Street), and a diminished majority in the House. They'll put their money where the government can't get it and if you thought the election was close this time, wait till the midterms. So far, "soak the rich" is going to pay for universal health care, securing Social Security and Medicate and Medicaid, free university, free daycare for working mothers . . .

Oh, wait: that's what they have in Denmark! Do you know the rate at which the Danes are taxed?

And how does Biden get those debts forgiven? Executive Order? What about the entities who gave the loans?

Biden will be lucky if he can get a new stimulus package through as the pandemic rages.

So, telling the poster to fuck off is juvenile. It's a reasonable question because the Democrats are promising lots of bennies and still insisting they can get it done just by taxing the rich.

As George Costanza snarled at Jerry Seinfeld in that cafe in one episode, "Well, you GET in the mood!"

This idealistic English political candidate claimed he would 'Eliminate Student Debt' if he was elected.

No one beloved him and he was dumped.

R140 Your British tightwad ass is complaining about paywalled Royal threads. Maybe you should stick to talking about tiaras and cough up $1.99, you cheap bastard.

[quote]What about people without families that make less than 125K?

Semantics. I don't think it matters whether or not you have a family of your own. The assumption is that you're a person who is in their teen years going to college with the expectation of your family helping you (which is essentially what FAFSA is for.)

[quote]It's 10k, OP. Not the entire student loan. Your title is misleading.

There are two programs.

The 10K off student loans is COVID relief based. Everyone will likely get that because he can do that via executive order.

The eliminating your debt for families under 125K that went to public universities or plan to is another effort.

I'm happy for everyone that gets help. Looking back, I would have gone to the University of my dreams that I was accepted in if the money was there.

R139, please repeat that 10,000 times. Americans have NO IDEA what goes on outside their bubble, and that is quite intentional. If Americans truly understood how much they take it up the ass, their minds would melt.

R137, you’re the first one on this thread to give us a plan — it’s exciting, I love it. It’s very unfortunate that many private colleges are about to go out of business, but it is what it is. The model is not sustainable. If Dems can institute change in higher Ed, I believe our system will look more European. There will essentially be pubic systems, and then a smaller pool of elite schools that become even MORE competitive to get into, but that’s ok.

R140, those a some excellent points, but that poster needs to CITE. We can’t have informed discussion if we aren’t working off the same information.

I agree, our government has been spending like drunken sailors, but have you notice they ALWAYS pump the brakes when it can actually help people? Trump did the PPP loans that NO minority business received, while all the biggest corporations got them, it was literally rammed through overnight!!!! The government couldn’t print the checks fast enough. But now, we are supposed to accept that we can’t even give citizens the education that mist desperately need to not be living in abject poverty?

And I WILL be “in a mood” when a random poster says “Biden says he’s taxing you for this plan” and has no receipts.

R143, thank you thank you thank you. You have a heart. Let’s be HAPPY that people can get some help!!! It IS a win-win — thus helps them, the future, the economy, on and on and on it goes.

R142 - Maybe my British tightwad ass finds too many people like you on this site to make it worth my hard-earned pension pennies.

As to discussions of tiaras, royals, actors, films, antique malls, etc., you know the old saying, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."

R140

R51 No, shame on you for expecting poor people to subsidize the middle class. It’s not right.

Just give everyone in the country $10,000. That’s fair.

R128 Your Program? John....is that you?

R146? That poster agrees with you?

[quote]The assumption is that you're a person who is in their teen years going to college with the expectation of your family helping you (which is essentially what FAFSA is for.)

This is still for everyone, there’s no age limit?

[quote]Bullshit. When you go to a community college and transfer to a four-year institution, nowhere on your diploma will it indicate you went to a CC. There’s no asterisk, no red ink.

You didn't have a counter for the argument that R112 wrote so you made up one that you thought you could win.

If you go to community college, there are employers that look down on that. There is no argument there.

As for what you're proposing, you're right. If you transfer after 2 years that would be best but it's not as easy as picking any school you want. You still have to make sure that your credits will transfer with you. They don't always. You have to discuss that with your guidance counselor.

I actually went to a university then did summer school at community college to graduate on time since I was working two jobs in addition to going to class. I had to pay for my own schooling. Many forms of financial aid have a time limit as do scholarships. You have 4 years to graduate and after that your time is up. However, not every class would transfer. They needed to have an equivalent at my university. (I ended up doing my science and religion gen eds.)

[quote]However, when I listen to people complain about debt they CHOSE to get into, and how it is owed to them to be forgiven, I don’t think highly of those people. College should be more competitive and free. Start trade schools, code schools. Everyone doesn’t NEED a degree.

Spoken like someone who hasn't applied for a job they wanted without a college degree. It's absolutely impossible in some areas.

So your solution is that people should go to trade schools and become mechanics and electricians! Those are great jobs but they aren't the only jobs.

What you're really saying here is that only the rich should have access to jobs that require an education that they'll be easily able to purchase for their children while everyone else that couldn't afford it or went to trade school serves them.

[quote] They bitch about paying fir Obamacare, now ‘the libs are giving free money to other libs.”

The white working class has been convinced by the GOP that Medicaid, Welfare, Obamacare are all to help black people. The truth is the majority of those depending on these programs are white

Community college should be free.

Previously, it was state colleges that were either free or very low tuition. Sadly, not anymore are states tightened budgets.

Instead, community colleges should be free so everyone has a chance at higher education

Huge portions of Appalachia and the deep south would starve to death if not for SS disability income. A whole lotta them could get up off their ass and work any day they chose. They get the government handouts for the same reasons the farmers do, because the GOP looks out for their own.

Dems need to be willing to do the same for us

I see that no one is even attempting to answer my question at R71. Come on; tell me why anyone with an iota of intelligence would sign up to borrow money and not have a clue as to how to pay it back.

For those of you wanting to throw the "but they also have to eat, pay for a car, etc." aspect into the discussion, so what? They would have to do those things whether or not they are going to school. That's life. The $10,500 for tuition falls in the disposable income part of the personal budget. Based on your "logic" then all people should have to pay for is rent, food, and transportation. Live at home with your parents. Eat at home with your parents. Don't drive an expensive car and make sure it gets good gas mileage.

Even if you are responsible for your own living expenses, the point is also that borrowing $42,000 for four years' worth of tuition should NOT be a burdensome debt to pay back after college over 10 years. I'm willing to bet they all want to spend more than that on a vehicle that they are willing to pay off in five years. It's about priorities and responsibilities.

If you borrow money, you have to pay it back regardless of WHY you borrowed it. Period. Some of you sound like gambling addicts. "The casino tricked me into spending $42,000 there...I can't and shouldn't have to pay it back."

[quote]This is still for everyone, there’s no age limit?

There is no age limit.

However, there's a massive caveat: [bold]none[/bold] of this applies to private loans which plenty of people have.

He doesn't have power over that. There are proposals to fix that though including one from Datalounge "fave" Ilhan Omar.

As of, the last time this came up, all they get is the ability to throw the debt in with their bankruptcy proceedings.

I went to college and I've got student loans. why do I have to pay more taxes than someone who didnt go to school, or dropped out and now I have to pay for breeders to have have kids. the more I make, the more they take, and still I have to pay more money every year for student loan as my salary goes up. so for those people who complain about student loans being forgiven, too bad for you.

NOBODY wants to take the hit to make the US more equitable across economic strata, for a RICH country!

If there is to be UNIVERSAL truly affordable medical care (nominal fees), the people who get rich off the current system have to take a hit.

If there is to be really affordable higher ed, some people have to take a hit. It's not going to be fair. Including people who were good citizens and paid their loans, through great sacrifice.

These monumental changes cannot be stopped by having to be 100 % fair - it's not possible.

Also - FUCK Obama for not prosecuting the Dillinger capitalists for the last crash. That was THEFT.

[quote] [R84] it's because educational loans are uniquely exempt from bankruptcy.

Yet all those people who lost their homes to foreclosures during the recession got to file for bankruptcy.

This isn't about what is equal for me versus you, or what I paid or didn't pay, or whether I went to college or didn't go to college. This is about the very basic concept of incurring debt. If any person or organization incurs debt for any reason, they are entering into the upfront agreement that they will be responsible for paying back that debt at the mutually agreed upon terms. It doesn't matter whether they are borrowing money from the federal government or a bank or a family member or a friend or the mafia. For all human history, "borrowing" has meant literally that and not "stealing" which is what many of you are supporting.

I'm all for trying to make college more affordable or having better lending rules up front, etc., but once you have agreed to any terms to receive money, you are now personally responsible for upholding those terms no matter the pain.

R159 I don't agree. Because of predatory lending. Sorry. Many people are dumb desperate twats. They take loans because everyone tells them to go to college and make something of their lives. EVERYONE lies to a lot of people. They go to SHIT schools. They go to for-profit schools. The congress lies to the American people allowing "for profit"colleges of grand larceny. There are a. lot of Trump Universities. People with no or low IQ but enough awareness to be desperate and think they should go college and get ahead. All lied to.

[quote] If any person or organization incurs debt for any reason, they are entering into the upfront agreement that they will be responsible for paying back that debt at the mutually agreed upon terms.

Ha! Someone please pass the memo to Trump. Great at incurring debt and never paying it back and never paying taxes.

Right!!! Corporations, churches, Trump.....none of the have to “pay their share” but the single-mom or the gay kid kicked out trying to make it? Fuck THEM, right????

[quote] I'm all for trying to make college more affordable or having better lending rules up front, etc., but once you have agreed to any terms to receive money, you are now personally responsible for upholding those terms no matter the pain

This is, of course, not remotely how society works in practice. If the "pain" is too much you just file for bankruptcy. Trump has done it a dozen times. Lots of rich people and businesses do. Student loans, uniquely, cannot be dissolved in bankruptcy. They are literally the only type of loan to have that status

We need death panels for Boomers. What a bunch of spoiled turds.

[quote]He doesn't need to pay for it.

True -- U.S. taxpayers do.

R162, no, I don't think that. I really believe that EVERYONE who incurs debt should pay it back...Trump, corporations, all of them. The fact that they don't is indeed an issue and THAT issue should be addressed. I'm 100% for that. We shouldn't ADD to the issue by throwing one more debt log on the fire.

R160, where do you draw the line? Plenty of people borrow money to pay for cars that they can't pay back. Plenty of people borrow money to pay for houses they can't pay back. Plenty of people borrow money for stupid crap they "buy" by using a credit card. Plenty of people borrow money for gambling. What is "predatory" and what isn't? Student loan percentages are fairly reasonable, aren't they?

[quote]everyone tells them to go to college

That was my whole life growing up as gen X. You can’t be anything without a college degree. No job, nothing.

All those other stupid purchases on bad credit can be dealt with through bankruptcy.

R150 Actually, I did counter the argument. Can’t afford a 4 year? Go to a CC. Don’t transfer to a UC, go to a Cal State to save money.

And in California, the transfer experience is quite seamless if you aren’t fucking around in CC. If you make up your mind from the beginning, say you want to major in psychology, you’ll devise a curriculum with the guidance counselor that will include only those classes that will be useful to your degree at the 4-year university. If you’re going to be that moron that wants to study psychology but takes a “study skills” class or a ceramic art class in CC, yeah, that won’t transfer. Let’s not make excuses for poor planning.

Predatory is dumb cunts managing to rack up 100K for Bachelors despite the school being shit or meh and they themselves having no ability to think on their feet and make a career at... anything really. So they take another 100k for grad school. Fucking themselves and their spawn (which they are dumb enough to have) for life.

EVERYBODY got theirs, from such situation, except the dumb cunts.

Remember that young mother and her stupid twat husband with what was it 600K in student debt?

Also HBCU (black colleges) produce astronomical student debt.

R166, the posters here using predatory are referring to specific situations — for example, students borrowing tens of thousands to attend a school that lost their accreditation, that is indeed fraud. There are tens of thousands who went into debt based upon fraud. I do not believe, however, that that represents the bulk of the debt. We do NOT properly educate people on loans, debt, budgets, predicting, planning, inflation, taxes, accrual, compounded interest, etc etc etc. People don’t really understand the real-life consequences for the debt. Furthermore, the system tells them they’ll have zero problem paying it back — another lie.

Oooooo, r170, so let’s close all the black colleges, fuck them too while we’re at it.

[quote] , where do you draw the line? Plenty of people borrow money to pay for cars that they can't pay back. Plenty of people borrow money to pay for houses they can't pay back. Plenty of people borrow money for stupid crap they "buy" by using a credit card. Plenty of people borrow money for gambling. What is "predatory" and what isn't? Student loan percentages are fairly reasonable, aren't they?

If you asked a bank to loan you $400k for a Lamborghini they would say no. Because when you inevitably couldn't make the payments, you would just file for bankruptcy and get the debt erased. And now the bank is stuck with a car they will have to sell for a loss. That ability of borrowers to file for bankruptcy is the incentive for banks to lend responsibly. That incentive doesn't exist for student loans. Lenders are quite happy to write 18 year olds loans totalling up to 6 figures. We shouldn't allow lenders to be this irresponsible.

I think Spellman is producing over 30K a YEAR in parental student debt. That's insane. The kids are taking 18K a year in Plus loans. Bullshit.

The DEMS tried to put in a couple billion to fund HBCUs in the corona bailouts. It was a great idea. My suggestion is not to close he HBCU but to STOP them from burdening kids with astronomical debt.

R150, I also later stated that if you aren’t planning on being on the very top of the corporate food chain, most employers don’t care where you got your degree from. You can get far with a good work ethic. You think all doctors are Harvard grads or something? All lawyers are from Duke? Plenty of people from less prestigious schools do plenty fine for themselves.

Reductress just posted this and I thought of some of you high and mighty gheys.

Havard, with 40 billion in endowment, should incorporate Spellman. Spellman College of Harvard. End of problem.

Harvard. Sorry I can't see well.

100% agree, R175. People put WAY too much emphasis on where someone got their degree. No. One. Cares. Most of the time it is the kids and/or parents wanting the appearance of going to one of those schools instead of the boring state university that is more financially reasonable. If they incur student debt being ignorant trying to keep up with the Joneses, then they need to pay the piper.

R177, I love that idea. There are countless schools with MASSIVE endowments. Why not partner with schools that need help, work together?

R179, there are many who do that, but so many do not!!!! I would argue it’s 50/50. If you’re so sure it’s true, cute your source. Put up or shut up whore!

Going after those endowments is harder than you think. Those graduates are heavily overrepresented in government. CT has considered trying to tax Yale's endowment for years. Bill never even makes it to the floor.

I can see where opposing sides are coming from, and I’m for Biden seriously trying to do something about this problem. Student loans are too easy to apply and receive, and I speak as someone who has used student loans from bachelors’s to doctoral degrees. Grants don’t cover close to tuition, fees, and living expenses. Almost everyone comes out of college in debt unless you’re very rich or practically indigent.

I know many people who took out student loans over what they needed to borrow, and they used the extra money to buy everything from clothes to cars. I even know three people who did so in order to go on vacations in between semesters. This misuse of student loans is openly discussed by students today. I’ve seen and heard it. There are a significant number of people who do not take obligation of loan repayments seriously.

That said, there should be some form of loan forgiveness in the federal student loan program. For instance if you’ve made payments for 10 years and you’ve reached 40 or 50 with still no end in sight. Or if you’re in one of the essential professions, like healthcare or research sciences. This is the boat that I’m floating in right now. Loan forgiveness can be partial or full depending on circumstances instead of blanket application. There should also be some consequences for having loan forgiven. Perhaps not being able to claim certain tax exemptions for certain period of time. Something similar which doesn’t have public stigma of bankruptcy, but is still allows for some sort of measurable consequence.

[quote] Even state colleges cost an arm and a leg.

I'll say. My state has seen an extravagant hike in state college tuition and fees, post-2000. I don't even even want to see what the UC chart looks like.

But r183, if you would JUST realize these people aren’t working hard enough, they aren’t making good choices, they want the cachet (?) of a fancy school, they knew what they were getting into, the tuition for CA schools is pebbles.....it’s EASY, why aren’t they thanking us instead of trying to skip out on their obligations????

I see no need to go after rich schools endowments. As a product of two ivy leagues, of course. The 100 filthy rich private (and a few public) universities are not the primary generators of any of these issues. And they have the means to survive whatever changes are necessary.

Is it “going after” or asking them to step up to help fix a societal issue for which they are partially responsible?

The Ivy League is not responsible for astronomical cost of higher education and high student debt.

Google "need blind admissions and financial aid" and learn something.

I don't think their endowments should be taxed. I do think they should step up and solve more issues in higher ed and I was the one who said every Ivy could incorporate a HBCU and it would be helpful. Decreasing debt for students attending those HBCU, which are good and historic schools.

Oh PUHLEEZE r187, you’re kidding yourself. ALL colleges have played into this situation, so don’t even go there. But I’m not “blaming” the Ivies, I overall love the Ivies. But this is a time where everyone has to do their part.

We are on the same page. Just know that Ivy undergraduate education is NOT producing crushing debt. I think the Princeton statistical average is 5K for all the 4 years, combined!

Yes, r189, I’m well aware. But think about how Princeton might be able to help smaller schools create a model similar to theirs. What if colleges were placed into regional partnerships? WTF not?!?? I can think of all sorts of methods that could be implemented....

Why are you arguing with me, when I introduced that idea in this thread?

College costs are reprehensible. I partially blame the ease of getting federal loans, which allowed colleges to keep raising rates as they pleased. Add in employers expecting a BA for receptionists and student loans not being dischargeable in BK, and it's a complete racket.

I went back to school later in life, and one professor attended our university 25 years prior. Her annual tuition (a CSU) was under a thousand dollars. She could work all summer at a minimum wage job, live at home, save up for tuition, and pay it in full. Not everyone has that kind of support system and it is a barrier that needs to be addressed.

This article that states tuition in the CSU systems has increased 923% since the mid-eighties.

R180 I'm not American so I can't understand this bizarre new concept you call "predatory lending'.

I don't think "predatory lending" would exist if some people weren't passive fools.

R193 you're full of shit. If you aren't from America schooling likely cost next to nothing where you're from. Unless it was a third world country, in which case you should be quite familiar with the concept of predatory lending.

This so-called predatory lending is new—

1990 is not "new". And that bump in usage of the phrase around then wasn't about college debt genius, it was mortgages. Many of the mortgages were predatory. Banks stupidly to people who couldn't pay. Then when it collapsed beneath them, the government paid trillions to help their mistake.

The arguments against the debt relief are getting stupider the thread goes on

Being that this is the DL, the cuntiness should not surprise me, but... some of you are soulless. I paid off my student loans but have no problem with what Biden is proposing. This is a drop in the bucket compared to what the 1% reap. Direct your ire to miniscule portion of the population that greedily holds onto the majority of the world's wealth.

If anything, this proposal will not be enough. Automation is expanding at an exponential rate. There are not enough jobs, even if everyone had advanced degrees and no students loans. In all seriousness, what is a realistic solution for the millions of Americans who are underemployed or unemployed? Because this number will continue to grow. If we don't care for these people, we will still be liable for them one way or another (crime, overburdening social systems, etc.). The bill always comes due.

Continuing to point out that "Trump does it" and "Corporations do it" and "The 1% do it" and on and on is just more whataboutism. People who are saying that eliminating student debt is wrong are NOT stating they are okay with all of the other inequities. That's a specious argument and beneath the level of this discussion. Whataboutism is going to lead to the demise of our society.

Continuing to point out that "Trump does it" and "Corporations do it" and "The 1% do it" and on and on is just more whataboutism. People who are saying that eliminating student debt is wrong are NOT stating they are okay with all of the other inequities. That's a specious argument and beneath the level of this discussion. Whataboutism is going to lead to the demise of our society.

The OP's link was prepared by someone called Adam S. Minsky, Esquire last month.

This month Adam S. Minsky, Esquire asks—

R198, as others have stated, “the trades” lolololol. But in all seriousness, I’m the one who posted that I live in Chicagoland, my SO is a contractor — we live pretty well. If you learn a skilled trade AND have solid business skills (think operations, finance, sales & marketing) you can make a great living, easily $150 — 200k per year if you live in a wealthier area with high disposable income. Our electrician makes about $2000k per day (GROSS not net). So you can indeed pull in some coin. I think the only other field that people can realistically find employment is tech or healthcare, and of course many STEM fields. And just think about how many people do NOT have an aptitude for IT. Coal miners aren’t going to go learn coding or project management.

Millions and millions of jobs are phasing out, and millions of students have no jobs or are underemployed and can’t pay these loans. They need help, and they need people to make their case for them to be taken seriously, people who have no skin in the game. I fit that profile, I am still paying off loans but most likely won’t see government help — and I am realistic enough to be okay with that because in spite of struggles I have had, I have been extremely fortunate. My household has an annual income of maybe $225k, we don’t need the help, but most of my life I was BROKE as hell. These kids borrowing $80k are FUCKED.

R201, I have owed the IRS many many times, if this debt cancellation is taxed, people can go into an installment plan with the IRS. Another interesting idea.....what if a borrow defaults on their installments to the IRS? That I do not know. If a debt is cancelled, moves to IRS installment plan (or even just one bill), and THEN that person files for bankruptcy, could it finally be written off?

Also, could the IRS change the code so that it is *not* treated as income? That’s another topic I know nothing about.

R192, that's obscene. And what justifies these steep fee/tuition hikes for students, exactly? I've been back, off-and-on, to take courses at the same CC I went to straight out of high school. Not much about the campus or student services has changed/improved so dramatically to warrant those increases, from what I can see.

[quote]Being that this is the DL, the cuntiness should not surprise me, but... some of you are soulless.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what is said on Datalounge about this: student loan reform and forgiveness is going to happen whether people here are for it or not.

More than half of the voters thought it was an important issue the next President should deal with so he's dealing with it.

R71 here and still waiting for anyone with student debt to answer my question. Who of you borrowed money without an understanding you would have to pay it back eventually?

Thanks R202. I think some of these people have this attitude because they think they will never be impacted. Automation and outsourcing are coming for everyone. I have friends and former colleagues in the legal industry who talk about the ongoing downsizing. Every year brings more sophisticated software that can increasingly perform more complicated research, draft legal documents, manage legal schedules, etc. I know people in the medical field that talk about how certain professions are being outsourced. How would you feel if you spent 100k in student loans to become a radiologist to see those jobs go to SE Asia? Like your cushy marketing job? Too bad, we'll outsource it to a firm that pays contractors peanuts to create the same product for which you got 6 figures.

Everyone thinks it won't happen to them. Everyone thinks they're middle class, even though they're a couple paychecks from the streets. Even if you don't lose your job directly to automation or outsourcing, you will lose it when there is no longer a market to support your job.

R206 No one here wants to admit to it.

[quote]More than half of the voters thought it was an important issue the next President should deal with so he's dealing with it.

How lovely it would be if our government actually did the things the majority of Americans deemed important.

Not a single poster here gave ONE string data-point arguing against this. When you actually see the rise of tuition (923%?!?!?!?! over thirty years or whatever), and you see how wages look over the same time period (hint: they didn’t go up by 923%), then it becomes quite difficult to deny how out of control it is. Wish I could create an overlay of graphs so you can see income vs tuition over a 40 year period, it’s comical.

That’s the theme of America now. Costs of EVERYTHING have skyrocketed. Wages plateaued 40 years ago. And over and over and over and over, the People take it up the ass while we watch big business get bailed out non-stop, the rich pay NOTHING in taxes, we have had everything stripped away, including the right to unionize, to sue, to do anything. They’ve castrated us, we have literally no way to fight back. The only tools left are a) strike, and b) get our representatives to do their mother fucking jobs.

I’m 48. Before you know it, I’ll be retiring. I’m not fighting this fight for me. This is for all the people who came behind me. All I ask is that you too promise to pay it forward someday. There will be other fights, and we need you to be willing to stand up for a cause greater than yourself.

[quote] Continuing to point out that "Trump does it" and "Corporations do it" and "The 1% do it" and on and on is just more whataboutism. People who are saying that eliminating student debt is wrong are NOT stating they are okay with all of the other inequities.

Yes we all believe you've been suffering in silence about the evil of bankruptcy for years and it's not just that you want to deny relief for student debt, but you wish you could deny it to everyone

R206, I did — I’m still paying for it, it’s been 18 years!!!! I’d like to know how a loan that will land on 30 years could possibly help me “get ahead” if I had to pay or my entire adult life? I didn’t borrow because I wanted to, I borrowed because I HAD to. And I went to the cheapest school I could find. This isn’t even about people trying to “make their dreams come true”, I believe it is SURVIVAL. If you don’t go to college, you literally cannot survive. People don’t even have a true choice on higher ed and debt.

I'm not sure whether or not this is a winning issue. On one hand, it is a huge problem with millennials. We are basically a decade or two behind where boomers were at our age, and this is the biggest reason. On the other hand, this will cause so much anger/resentment from people who already paid off loans or never got them in the first place.

You're right R207. I've seen plenty of professions die off in my time.

R206, not everybody here arguing for some level of student debt forgiveness still have student debt. I am anti the exorbitant, inflated cost of education in this country and against banks/predatory loans taking advantage of naive 17- and 18-year-olds. People make mistakes. Especially dumb kids that age who had it drilled into their skull that they could a). only get a good career via a university degree and b). once they attain said degree, will have decent jobs to help them pay off those loans (which in many cases, never happened).

R207 is totally right!!!! I will say though, I was horrified reading that about say radiology, I never envisioned it happening in healthcare too, but I’m sure there are oodkes of professions that I never dreamt would be decimated by automation. A better way to frame it is — what jobs will NOT be affected by automation?

I saw an incredible 60 Minutes piece about his long haul truck drivers are literally just a couple years out from being obsolete. Do you know how many people making their living driving those trucks???? What will happen to all these people?!?!??

I really wish we could see the government address this DIRECTLY, I’m talking on the level of Obamacare. Let’s put together the best minds in every industry, and make a plan for how we move millions of workers into new fields. A job Corp that is specific to automation.

[quote] I'm not sure whether or not this is a winning issue

The journalist at R201 is suggesting it's not a winning issue. And it may very well be put on Biden's backburner.

Part of what is so stupid about this discussion is the more likely you are to say millennials suck and the Dem party should leave them to their fate rather than help them, the more likely you are to go on screeds against millennials on this website for not voting for Dems enough. No internal logic or consistency

That’s ridiculous r217, a majority of voters support this.

I don't remember Biden making this an important issue in his election speeches.

[quote] a majority of voters support this.

Which makes sense. This is not just affecting those people with student debt. It's affecting the housing market, automobile industry, healthcare industry, on and on.

[quote]I really wish we could see the government address this DIRECTLY

Our government never addresses anything until it has gone beyond the crisis stage. It should have acted on skyrocketing college costs several decades ago and we wouldn't be in this mess.

R212, so you don't think it is "fair" to be paying on your obligation 18 years later? How long do you think it SHOULD have taken you? What does the length of time it has taken you to pay it back have to do with the fact that you knew exactly how much you were borrowing and what the terms of interest were? Based on your statements, it is apparent that you do believe your college education was mandatory so why are you upset to pay for it over that length of time? People pay off mortgages over 30 years so, if your education was at least as important as that, why are you upset now?

No one told you to take 18 plus years to pay it back. How long did you think it would take you when you signed up? (Honest, non-rhetorical question.)

This is intuitive r221 but lots of people would genuinely prefer to be less well off financially if it means some other group they hate will be even worse off

There is no American homegrown capitalist solution to the surplus labour as jobs move to developing and poor countries. There may be enough wealth to make the unemployable, and the low skilled employed, nevertheless comfortable and dignified. But that's not really in the American culture. There could be low skilled public works. Well we already have that, but there could be a LOT more. Jobs like in the old socialist states. Or like in Egypt and India where there are useless people sitting around everywhere doing nothing but its "a job".

R219, cite your source for that. Let's see what happens in two years if it happens or the Democrats decide to run on that full out.

We don't want Biden having such a messy argument like this so soon into his reign. How will Kamala handle this mess?

R223, an honest answer: I went through some major major turmoil that cost me a decade financially. That’s on me, and no, I don’t think it situation is unfair at all. But I’m Gen X. I think the younger generations have NOT been given a fair shake. If I was a millennial or a Gen Z, I would have had to borrow triple that amount.

People can’t afford to be paying *multiple* large loans over three decades. Also, how could workers have predicted that wages would be stagnant for 40 years? I’m not asking for government help, I don’t need it, I’ll be ok. Many/most will NOT. I could pay off my loans very quickly now, but choose not to because I have other bills too, and my interest rate is super low. What I pay per month is triple what I’m required to pay.

So now what? I make too much to qualify for loan cancellation, and I don’t even want it. I have no skin in this game. You’ll have a hard time convincing others here that I am motivated by self-interest as I clearly gave zero to gain. I believe this will stimulate our economy in countless ways, THAT is why I support it.

R228 How can it stimulate our economy?

people paying student debt can instead take loans to buy property, or invest in creating business, or can simply buy shit with that money. America needs people to buy immense quantities of shit.

[quote] …immense quantities of shit.…

Oh.

[quote] …immense quantities of shit.…

Oh.

R228, are you serious? I’ve got two words for you.

REAL ESTATE.

R228, thank you for answering. So you aren't really complaining about the amount of time, then, and are taking the smart step into taking advantage of the low interest rate to use your money elsewhere.

If you want to just "stimulate the economy" there are plenty of other ways to do that than cancelling student debt. Cancelling student debt puts the economic stimulation possibilities into the hands of relatively few compared to the overall population. If you really want to stimulate the economy with a massive cash infusion, why wouldn't you give it to people who are more likely to actually spend it on goods and services and who don't have to have a college degree? I'm not even saying that is a good thing to do, but hopefully you see the slippery slope you are encouraging by focusing solely on people who are subject to a financial situation that they entered into with their own eyes fully open.

Come on, R233. You had the perfect opportunity! It isn't REAL ESTATE, it's

PLASTICS.

[quote] why wouldn't you give it to people who are more likely to actually spend it on goods and services and who don't have to have a college degree?

What makes you think that people with student debt aren't likely to spend it on goods and services?

You got me lmao r235!

Some of you seem to be wilfully misunderstanding. If it's a public university and you meet the financial guidelines, the loan is wiped out. If it's not a public institution and you don't meet the financial guidelines, you still get $10,000 knocked off.

People who don't have families -- former foster kids, kids whose parents died or disowned them, etc. -- will also be accommodated.

And for anyone fortunate enough to have paid off your loans or made do without them, good for us, but before we complain about being left out of the hand-out, maybe it's good to remember we routinely are left out of the billions of taxpayer funds funnelled into defense contrator CEOs' pockets and dozens of other government programs where the super-rich suck on taxpayer tit.

R236 I'm not the one you quoted, but I'm sure they will since many of my peers had no issue taking the full amounts to have extra spending money, while they justified going out of state as "paying for the experience". We should definitely figure out what to do about these loans, but help needs to be on a case by case basis. A majority of my peers went full throttle because they wanted the full package.

Meanwhile my partner and I (poor and not white) missed out by going into a trade and working for a company that paid for higher education if you got the degree they wanted you to. He's sacrificing his body, while I sacrificed my dream for something practical (healthcare).

I'm not against it, just can't be a free for all, and before student loans, healthcare for all should be a priority. That's 10% of income and tied to jobs, which holds people back all the time when they choose benefits over wages.

Thanks for your insights, R239. I also wonder about all of the people who joined up to the military to be able to go to school via the GI Bill. What sort of schmucks are they going to feel like now to know they didn't have to risk their lives or deal with everything that goes along with being in the military just so they could eventually go to college, and now it will turn out all they had to do was go directly to school and incur debt that they would never have to pay back.

I'd be pissed as HELL.

[quote] I'd be pissed as HELL.

Maybe they feel happy for some of their friends/relatives/etc. who this may help? Not everybody operates on a: "Well I did it XYZ way, why the hell can't they?" basis.

R240, I hate to say this but because only 1% of the workforce is in the military, I don’t see Americans as having any compassion for this.

This never would have happened without Bernie bringing this to national attention in 2016 and 2020 (and the years in between). Sorry if you don't like that but it's true.

Arabs and Muslims here in Michigan were mostly Republican pre-911. Makes sense. I never understood how so many voted Democrat here. They’re not exactly pro-gay...at all.

Oops, wrong thread.

I hope this is something Biden addresses immediately. It would be nice to have a little financial breathing room in the new year.

People who wish to punish people who actually go and get an education are Republicans. There’s no way around it. Don’t dare call yourself a Democrat or a liberal. The Right is anti-debt forgiveness because they want people to stop going to school and getting an education. They need stupid people to keep voting their elite asses into power.

It would be wonderful if that was a possibility, but reality must set in...every member of Congress are in the pay of the lobbyists and I doubt members of Congress would readily give up all those "freebies" to help the middle class. Lobbyists dictate policy for this country that is why we have such a corrupt form of government.

Why don’t states make their tuition cheaper? I mean, there’s no reason that they can’t charge less. CA, WA, VT, put your money where your mouth is and make college cheap or free. Universities are run by the state government. If everyone is so concerned for the poor, do something about the cost of tuition. Another problem the gov doesn’t really want to solve so banks can make money. Both parties.

Correct r249. And yet, where does all the money go??? We know academia is a hot mess and that 80% of English profs work three part-time teaching gigs with no benies (I made all that up), who has all the money???? Who is Hoovering all the coke?

Where is the link to an official statement that Biden and Kamala will Eliminate all Student Debt?

It sucks if you paid your loans and this goes through...it sucks that some of didn’t get the stimulus...but ultimately these things are better for all of us

Maybe Biden should try the Modern Debt Jubilee option. Every adult citizen gets $10,000 with the proviso that the money is to pay down debt, starting at the highest interest rate. If you have debt of less than $10k you get to keep the difference. So someone with no debt gets the full $10k to spend how they please. Meanwhile the rest of us can pay our debts off quicker.

Agreed r252. We applied for the PPP and didn’t get a nickel — but I’m glad that some received it, it is what it is.

[quote]...I’m bitching at the myth of the “affordable college education “. I’m bitching at people “going where they can afford to go”. It’s LIES. I’ve had enough fucking lies for the last five years. No more!!!! We NEED to fight for people to have a FAIR SHOT at the American Dream, and if you don’t like it, too fucking goddamn bad.

No, you're just making a lot of noise while mounting your high horse. I know the type. Might I suggest it's not a lack of resources, nor opportunity holding you back, but rather your intemperate, viper-like personality, and lack of impulse control. Nobody anywhere wants to work with self-righteous, angry jerks.

A reasonable solution would be to end and outlaw student loans entirely. Watch the prices for these bloodsucking institutions of higher "learning" crater overnight, and more jobs requiring smart dedicated workers would have to start hiring good employees without the meaningless diploma! You know, supply and demand?

Prospective students might even consider working and saving for their education, which will be ever so much more affordable, as schools would have to fight for good students, while the football, binge drinking, party campus colleges shutter for good. The net result would be no student debt, more motivated students, a true opportunity to work and discover what field of work one might actually enjoy, rather than guessing as a nervous teenager, and reduce the ability of banks to fleece young people.

I'm a Democrat from Massachusetts and in my mid 50s and I've never been to college. I simply wasn't willing to go into debt to maybe discover what I wanted to be when I grew up. Instead I learned useful "work skills" like getting along with others and working lots of fairly humble entry-level jobs to see what best suited me. The only radical thing I did was not fear being poor for awhile and live within my means.

You're still enraged, aren't you?

HA! You’re funny r255.

[quote] Might I suggest it's not a lack of resources, nor opportunity holding you back, but rather your intemperate, viper-like personality, and lack of impulse control. Nobody anywhere wants to work with self-righteous, angry jerks.

You don't sound like much of a charming cupcake yourself, cupcake R255.

I believe in a weighted system. Make it a point system based on financial need, previous academic performance and usefulness of the of the program in the job market. Don’t do well in any of the 3? Maybe they shouldn’t invest in you!

Nice thread, the little I have read of it. Just goes to show how a politician's chicken in every pot election promises play out in real life.

I don't get how colleges are still charging the same prices right now during Coronavirus. Talk about the most expensive Zoom sessions of your life.

The universities who charged huge tuition fees for next-to-worthless degrees should be the ones to cover student loan debt, not the general taxpayers.

A few things:

To those saying "Well, you *knew* what you were getting into... didn't you think you'd have to pay it back?" There are people across this country who have literally paid back their full tuition amount but are still suffering under some very foul and shady loans. Add to that what another poster mentioned, that wages have stagnated, so there's no money to try and get ahead on these loans.

Also somebody mentioned "Why isn't the government looking into this?" Many of these loans are federal loans. As I mentioned upthread, our government is essentially profiting off us. In some really disgusting ways. Why would they investigate...themselves?

We have a long way to go in this. I like though that one of thr posters mentioned a Jubilee, which is considered a fringe idea at this point, but was more common throughout history. In some cultures they would do it whenever a new ruler would take the throne.

We are in transitioning from mostly capitalism to mostly socialism. Those who work hard and pay 50% + to the government (federal, state, city, property, estate, capital gains, sales tax) are being screwed while the rich cheaters laugh at us and those who didn’t play by capitalism rules get money for doing nothing.

Exactly what IS the American Dream these days, can someone enlighten us?

If HGTV is anything to go by, it's granite countertops, two-car garages, a pool out back with a bar in the middle complete with concrete stools to sit on so you can drink margaritas without getting out, and a bathroom for every bedroom.

If other shows, such as the many contests on the Food Channel seem to demonstrate, along with the appalling reality shows, are to be believed, it's also beating everyone else in a race and a winner take all philosophy.

A shot at the "American Dream"?! Which one? Being Bill Gates? Being George Clooney?

A nation of doctors and lawyers and investment bankers, but no lorry drivers, postal workers, secretaries, sanitation workers, mechanics, electricians, and plumbers?

Oh, never mind that bit about the plumbers: we know they're all rich as Croesus.

[quote] I don't get how colleges are still charging the same prices right now during Coronavirus. Talk about the most expensive Zoom sessions of your life.

R260, yeah. If I was just starting college right now, I'd defer, take a leap year, work until this crap is over. No way would I be paying the same price for these grainy, unsteady, unsatisfying Zoom lessons. They're getting screwed.

[quote] What about ME? What about ME? What about ME? Selfish selfish selfish selfish.

GUESS WHAT? No public policy can perfectly capture every single goddamn scenario. If you are in a position where you don’t “fit” this plan, sure it sucks....but can you not see that this will benefit our economy as a whole, and therefore STILL SUPPORT IT????

Fuck right off. People who are not a burden on society and pull their own weight are sick of drug addicts and alcoholics, people who can't afford the kids they have and everyone else get all these services and handouts.

Nope r266, you are WRONG on every single level. So YOU fuck off. This is not about people being a burden. This is about the fact that we have boxed people in. You CANNOT afford to live without a degree. But to get the degree, you have to pull 10’s of thousands in debt, and then hope nothing goes wrong for 20 years while you pay it off???? THAT IS INSANITY. There are better ways to do this. So you can GO GET INFORMED MOTHER FUCKER.

Don’t come here and post shit when you don’t know what in the ever loving FUCK you are talking about. You know nothing but your OPINIONS, nothing based in FUCKING FACTS whore.

I believe that miss R267 has been triggered.

This is student loan debt relief with a lot of ridiculous conditions that make it student loan debt relief "for the few".

Here's an anecdote that doesn't mean anything about anyone except the people involved, but it seems illustrative to me.

A former co-worker inherited at least a million dollars from her parents, and her Ph.D. chemist husband made a lot of money for a lot of years, so they are well set. They have two children, both incredibly smart and accomplished. The parents told the kids they would pay up to $20,000 a year for college, so that was something they should think about when choosing schools.

The daughter was a merit finalist and was offered full-ride scholarships to both of the big state universities and to a highly rated private university 40 miles from her parents' house. Her parents told her if she attended the private university and lived at home with them, they would buy her a new car. They also said they would put the $20,000 a year into an account for her to use for medical school, which she planned to attend, if she accepted any of the scholarships.

She chose to go to a private university across the country that has a decent reputation, but it's not Ivy League and not particularly noteworthy for anything. Her father did the calculations on what her loans would cost her and told her by the time she graduated from med school, she would have a million dollars in debt. She didn't care. When she graduated with her bachelor's, she didn't get accepted to any of the med schools she wanted, so she took a job as a nurse's aide at the university hospital of the med school she most wanted to attend, hoping that she could reapply and have better luck after they got to know her personally. That was a few years ago, and I don't work with her mother any more, so I don't know how it turned out. I hope she got accepted to med school and will be a brilliant doctor. She was a sweet and lovely girl.

The boy, however, attended the biggest state university here, graduated with honors, and immediately started grad school as a teaching assistant with no debt. I'm not sure what his area is, but I'm pretty sure it's something in tech. He, too, was a charming young man with beautiful manners and, to my mind, more common sense than his sister.

R267, get on a lithium IV drip STAT and get your tongue out of AOC's pussy.

R267, you invalidate your own argument by saying “You CANNOT afford to live without a degree”.

Lots of people do. Including some rich people, like celebrities, Bill Gates, etc. A job in the trades often pays more than an office job.

We get it girl, you want your student loan cancelled. Just say it.

In my parents' hometown, lots of blue-collared people own HUGE houses and have 3 or 4 kids. They go into the trades, do some work on the side, and go into business for themselves.

R272, this is absolutely a trigger topic for me (I’m being self-deprecating as I say that lol) because if you read this thread from the beginning, you will see that it was heavy early on with trolls. I am the poster who explained that we make way too much money now for it ever to be forgiven. I’m completely good with that.

What infuriates me about this is that it really does encapsulate everything that is wrong with America today. Education, class, capitalism, greed, academia, on and on and on. So I have staked my flag in this thread to battle lies.

If someone could actually post an opinion against this that isn’t framed in lies, disinformation, and ignorance I wouldn’t put them on blast. It hasn’t happened yet. If there is an actually article answer that can show with hard data that this would be a bad move for our economy or for the future, then let’s see it!!!

Every single poster here claiming that it isn’t fair because “they” didn’t have problems making the system work is a joker. They’re basing their own personal experience against what the rest of our country is dealing with. A better question is WHY are we accepting this???? Why should young people be forced to start their adult life saddled with this? Other generations do NOT face this, and again, I’m Gen X. How are these people supposed to save money? Or buy a home?? Do you think it’s fair that a person is 25 years old and has no hope for financial security? I know it’s so weird for you that some people get enraged and upset because other people are getting fucked — some of us really and truly care about what this is doing to those who are younger than us.

Last but not least r272, my husband works in the trades. I used to too — I know all about it. One can make bank, but do you actually believe that most people without a degree are doing ok???? It’s laughable. Do you think the majority of women can work in the trades? Sure, of course they “can” but many understandably don’t want to work in that industry. If my husband ever got hurt, he’s fucked, there are no other non-degrees jobs that pay even a quarter of what he makes now, so please stop acting like there are just oodles of amazing non-degree careers out there who a person can have a decent life and even save a goddamn penny.

They need to make it a requirement that the people only get this forgiveness after they start paying back their student loans IMMEDIATELY and not miss a single month for at least a year

I know so many people who gave up on paying off their loans. But they sure didn't give up on anything else. They have iPhones, newer cars, they go on vacation, they have children

I paid back $50,000 back in the 1990s , when you couldn't even deduct the interest on your taxes. Those morons didn't even have enough sense to pick a decent major

R275, most are not morons but simply people who didn’t have proper guidance, as you likely had. Now what?

Can an American DLer tell me if your student loans are considered like any other normal debt ie. they can be eliminated if the person declares bankruptcy?

If not, then it seems the fairest way to reduce student debt is to allow debtors to write off the loans by declaring bankruptcy. Yes, bankruptcy is difficult, but the debtors need to feel some pain. Then, get a system in place to reduce college tuition to more realistic levels. Too many colleges are behaving like businesses, not academic institutions.

What was that again, r8?

R277

It once was fairly simple to discharge student loans (including federal) easily via bankruptcy, but over years Congress has made it increasingly difficult if not impossible to do so.

More:

All this being said bankruptcy courts have and are allowing people to discharge student loans. It turns out many who file aren't even asking because they believe what they've been told, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

[quote]Every single poster here claiming that it isn’t fair because “they” didn’t have problems making the system work is a joker. They’re basing their own personal experience against what the rest of our country is dealing with. A better question is WHY are we accepting this???? Why should young people be forced to start their adult life saddled with this? Other generations do NOT face this, and again, I’m Gen X.

GenX absolutely DID face this, and the discussion about student loan debt started during GenX's years in college; remember, it was under Clinton that the government made it nearly impossible to discharge student loan debt via bankruptcy.

GenX didn't have great employment prospects thanks to the recession in early 2000s, when GenX was just getting out of school or were the low men on the totem pole in their jobs and therefore the first laid off, and again in the 2008 economic crash. Sure, other generations were affected, but GenX absolutely WAS affected SERIOUSLY by economic downturns and student loan debt, and it's incredibly strange that so many people claim otherwise.

For my part, I took out $30K in student loans for a state school in the 1990s, struggled to find jobs, then after only about a decade of decent work, got injured and sick and couldn't work full time. Interest has raised it to $92K (as have a series of fraudulent fees Sallie Mae added to the loan for years until I was finally able to get another company to buy the loan from them) and I've been paying on it for 15 years total so far. I've paid more than the original borrowed $30K. There are TONS of people like me, many of them GenX.

[quote]I know so many people who gave up on paying off their loans. But they sure didn't give up on anything else. They have iPhones, newer cars, they go on vacation, they have children

The mysterious "so many people" who "you know."

I know "so many people" too and my "so many people" have those cheap phones people hand out on the streets, they don't drive and take public transportation and going on vacation for them is going to the park. They don't have children either.

[quote]I paid back $50,000 back in the 1990s , when you couldn't even deduct the interest on your taxes. Those morons didn't even have enough sense to pick a decent major

I didn't go to college in the 90s. What was that like? I went later on because I was in middle school or something. The tuition from my university in the early 2000s is at least 20K more than it was when I went when it was already pretty expensive.

I'd ask what you'd define as a decent major but that's inconsequential in the scheme of things. Sure you'll have an easier time getting certain jobs when you choose certain majors but there's a lot more involved here than that singular idea. I knew two kids who majored in Wine (yes, actual wine like wine tasting) and they all managed to get jobs easily. I knew kids who were pre-law, went to law school and took forever to find good jobs and they have even more debt than them. I remember a post on here saying "MOST BIG NAMED ACTORS DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE," to that I say, "Most?" and then I'd add well plenty did go, actually, and now we're on a board dedicated to talking about them.

Like, take a look at Wandavision! Elizabeth Olsen graduated from NYU. Randall Park graduated from UCLA. Teyonah Parris graduated from Julliard.

By telling people not to go into the arts, what you're doing is shoehorning the poorest people into certain jobs and that's absolute bullshit.

Furthermore job requirements to even get your foot in the door of many jobs have changed from high school education to 4 year college to grad school to all of the above with experience in the field for an entry level job.

What most people are complaining about with student loans is the interest. What they should do is get rid of it entirely for student loans. That would solve a tremendous amount of issues.

R281 the article explains it in more detail but for most people, no you cannot discharge student loans in bankruptcy and that is the only commonly held debt that's true of.

It's true that with a good lawyer *AND* an extremely friendly judge, you can sometimes get it discharged anyway through obscure standards. But most people in bad student loan debt can't afford good lawyers and you have no control over who your judge is. The vast majority would not allow it and it's not like you can just say "whoopsies" and stop the bankruptcy once you've declared it.

To others saying Gen X went through this, no you did not. The fact that student loan debt existed in the past does not mean it's the same as what's happening now

Tuition has increased at much higher pace over the last few decades than either income or inflation. So relative to how much money people made in the 80s or 90s or how much things cost back then, education was much, MUCH cheaper.

And because of the way compound interest works, having 30k in debt is much more than twice as bad as having 15k

As one more data point to out things in perspective, student loan debt has tripled just since 2006. There really isn't anything comparable to any prior generation.

And all of you saying you don't care are hurting yourselves. Every prior generation was buying houses or starting businesses by now. This generation can't. It's dragging down the economy and dragging up rents in cities.

It's not sustainable. Of you don't want it forgiven, the next best thing would be to let people discharge it in bankruptcy.

Doesn't the IRS consider loan forgiveness as taxable income? Some people might be in for a big surprise.

R286 that is a good point but I believe it can be done in such a way as to not count as taxable income. Teachers and sometimes lawyers that do non profit work can have their loans forgiven in many places without incurring the tax. I would hope Biden pursues whatever avenue would lead to that result because you're right, it could be tough for people with a lot of debt to cover the tax.

"Biden dismisses a Democratic plan to wipe out $50,000 in federal student-loan debt"

Read that headline. Biden dismisses a DEMOCRATIC plan to wipe out $50K in student loan debt. Biden is a Democrat, not a conservative Republican. His own party proposes a plan to wipe out this amount in student debt and he won't consider it. He's to the right of most Democrats.

They won't even get 10K.

If these assholes get $50,000 to wipe out their student loan debt, then I want MINE retroactively.

What's good for one is good for all. Fucking assholes.

Average loan debt is about 30k. 50 really does seem excessive. 10 isn't a lot but everyone I know would take it gladly

I said before the election that Biden wasn't going to forgive any student loan debt and you all thought I was lying or a Trump troll or being pessimistic. I just knew who he was and his history and I was right. As mentioned in the article at R280, it's going to have to take a mass default on student loan debts before the government is forced to forgive them out of pure necessity, knowing the bill will never be paid anyway. It will destroy an entire generation's wealth forever, but neither the Reich nor Democrats give a shit about that. I'm sure they will when the popularity of socialism reaches critical mass, however. Then they'll have wished to forgiven the debts.

Lol slow down r292. He said he isn't going to forgive 50k. That is not a pledge to forgive nothing

R293 He also said he was going to give out $2000 stimulus checks [bold] immediately. [/bold] They've since reduced the amount of the checks, said they aren't going to be sent out until late March, early April (at the earlies) and they may be negotiated out of the stimulus bill all together so that they can get Neera Fucking Tanden confirmed as the Director of OMB. Politicians lie all the time. Watch him go from promising $50,000 in debt relief to offering up nothing at all to "reach across the aisle" with the political party that attempted to stage a coup last month. Just watch.

R294 literally nothing you just described happened. After congress approved $600 checks and Trump said it should be 2000, AOC and Rashida Tlaib introduced a bill that *revised* the 600 to 2000. It was not for a new 2000 check. Biden promised to enact that if he won and everyone knew it.

He also never promised 50k in debt relief. He promised 10. Then Schumer, AOC, and Warren said he should do 50k instead. He's now said no to *that* specific demand.

Whenever I question why “traditional” Republicans don’t speak out more forcefully against Trumpers and Tea Partiers, I need to remember the fucking unchecked lunacy in my own party.

There is already a loan program in place that forgives student loan debt for those who choose careers in public service, or for the federal government. That cunt Betsy DeVos did what she could to block administration of the program, and approvals were as low as 1% of applications at one point. However, effective management of that program should be priority #1. Additionally, there should be federal laws in place that prohibit student loans with excessive interest rates. As a matter of fact, student loans should be guaranteed to have lower interest rates than home mortgages...and never over 5%.

That said, there should NOT be an across-the-board effort to forgive student loans for everyone. People should choose schools in their price range (not necessarily what they can afford, but according to how much post-graduation debt they’re willing to assume). Even Biden’s offer of $10,000 was overly generous since nobody is forced to take out a loan in the first place.

How about targeting relief toward special groups as well. Maybe people who are in the student loan forgiveness program who work in social services could get their loans forgiven after five or seven years instead of 10?

Wouldn't solve the problem. Most people with the inordinate debt aren't in those fields so the broader economic benefit of having another generation with newly disposable income would be muted and there's less point

People who support student loan forgiveness, without exception:

What should be done to refund the people who paid off their loans in the time allotted? While I make a great salary now, I wasn’t during that 10-year period I had to pay roughly 10% of my salary toward student loans...

Nothing r299. Grow up. Biden has also proposed a 300 per month child allowance and is trying to put that in the covid bill. It's a good idea. Do you know how much you will get if your kid is over 18 but you spent a lot of money raising them before the program? Zero. Because what happens when a new program starts.

Doesn’t make it right, girl.

R20, the entire economy was bailed out, not just banks. The loans were paid back plus the government (us) made $19 billion on the deal.

I've said this in another thread, the colleges and universities that scammed these idiots should refund part or all of the inflated tuition.

I paid off my student loans after 18 years of struggling to do so. In that 18 years, I was not able to save money, nor was I able to purchase a house or condo. I'm in my 50's now and have just been able to start saving, but I'm so far behind my contemporaries who didn't have loans because mommy and daddy paid for everything that I often want to kill myself. Seriously, imagine being in your 50's having never lived in anything but a tiny box (studio apartments). I don't even own decent furniture. And now rents have increased to the point where moving into a bigger place will just be me throwing money away. I live in LA so buying a house or condo here is not an option. I make decent money, but even with what I make, I cannot afford a $5000 house payment when I only bring home $4000 per month.

So while I understand wanting to eliminate student loan debt, it hardly seems fair to those in my generation who had 9% interest rates on loans we could not refinance. I would love to have had $10,000 forgiven. It would have made a huge difference in the quality of my life. And yes, I was the idiot who took the loans out, but I would have otherwise not been able to attend college (I did Community Colleges for a long time before I transferred to University). I guess I'm torn because I don't wish my life on anyone but at the same time, it seems like bullshit to forgive loans when the person taking them out knows they must be repaid.

Funny, I came from a family with nothing yet I paid off my student loans and my law school debt completely on my own.

Doesn’t this coddling just further infantilize an already infantile generation?

[Quote] It was not for a new 2000 check. Biden promised to enact that if he won and everyone knew it.

Roll the video tape.

[Quote] He also never promised 50k in debt relief. He promised 10.

And he won't offer that up either. It's going to end up exactly as I said it will. Many Americans who have student loan debts will default, using the loopholes mentioned at R281 to get out of paying them, and then the government is just going to have to forgive them because they come to the belated realization that they are never getting that money anyway. Or, as mentioned in the article at R280:

[Quote] For those opposed to canceling the debt, there would be some comfort in knowing that bankruptcy comes at a price. It would be a part of a borrower’s credit report for seven or 10 years, depending on whether Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 is used. The availability of credit would be sharply diminished during those periods, eliminating the ability to obtain a mortgage and other loans.

Considering these people with massive student loan debt can't get a mortgage or other loans to begin with, this would be the better option for them. At least they'd be able to get one [italic] at some point, [/italic] as opposed to never getting one, if they discharge the bulk of or all of the student loan debt. People will be pissy about them getting away with not paying it back, but tough fucking shit. It won't be without a penalty and at least the country can move on from this.

This is the bill AOC introduced and called $2000 checks. As you can see, the bill literally crosses out the $600 and replaces it with $2000. That is what was proposed.

No one at any point ever promised the $600 + a new $2000. This was clear at the time and clear now. If you want more, argue for it sure, but stop pretending you were promised it. You know you weren't.

Ossoff says "stimuwus"

[quote]What about those of us who did not take out student debt and went to crappier schools we could afford?

Then you are not in debt are you? It's not a handout to everyone who ever went to college.

[quote]Funny, I came from a family with nothing yet I paid off my student loans and my law school debt completely on my own.

Yeah, it's not 1970 any more Boomer. The cost of a 4 year degree is 4 times what it used to be. And that's AFTER adjusting for the current cost of living. Incomes especially entry level ones you might get as a college student have been stagnate all those years.

Look up how much you would make working at McDonalds 20 hours a week while going to school and look up how much a typical 4 year degree costs and tell me you could do it on that income assuming you still need money for an apartment, food, car and gas.

R300

It's $3k per month for each child sweetie, not $300.

Families like the Duggars, Orthodox Jews or anyone else with a passel of children would get more each month in "aid" than most who hold down full time jobs.

R310, that's why you are stupid, why would you work at McDonald's while going to college? You find a bartending job or wait tables preferably at an expensive restaurant where you make good tips.

On another note federal government can only "forgive" or whatever student loan debt that is still on their books. Tons of student loans long since in repayment have seen those notes sold off to Navient and other servicers with actual paper held by likes of Deutsche Bank.

Case in point when federal government froze student loan payments as part of various stimulus packages everyone I know with loans by Navient and others still had to make monthly payments as the order did not cover. True, Navient and others did step up with various in-house forbearance offers, but they varied from federal order and didn't last as long.

I think they should give more money to singles or couples WITHOUT kids. After all, we are the ones with a smaller carbon foot print and none of us are thrusting our chosen crotch fruit onto society to support. Good behavior should be rewarded, not frowned upon. Don't have kids if you can't afford them.

R311 you're wrong, those figures are per year. It's $300 a month for a child under 6, and a little less for a child 7-17.

Thame way I look at it, even if you never have kids, we all have been kids. Every future child will benefit from having a parent with more resources to raise them.

R313 that's a little bit off. The US government can forgive any debt that's owed to them regardless of who they contract to service it like Navient or Great Lakes. There is lots of private debt also out there issued by those companies and that can't be forgiven by the government. But government student loans are more common

R314 in 2024!!!!

Everyone knows Biden and the rest said $2,000 CHECKS. They all speak English. They were fully capable of saying what they meant. If they meant $1,400 checks, why didn't they say that? People defending this double talk should be ashamed.. They also said "immediately" and that is also English.

If I owed you $1,400 on a $600 down payment, would I tell you, "Don't worry, I'll send you that $2,000 check immediately"? No.

They way we know you're full of shit is that AOC and every member of the squad said the exact same things as Biden and also meant $1400 as evidenced by the bill they tried to pass but you aren't angry at them. Just Biden. Get over it, the promise was bumping the checks from 600 to 2000. Everyone knew it at the time and still knows it

R320 Show me one speech where Biden, Ossof, Warnock, say that. Nobody said it until AFTER the elections. After the elections it became $1,400.

Someone upthread brought up the good point that loan forgiveness is usually taxable so Biden cancelling the debt could cause some people financial pain inadvertently.

The American Rescue Plan, makes student loan debt cancellation tax free. So there is no longer a problem

R305, I’ll take the bait and bite! Please tell us:

How old you are

College and Major, Graduation Year

Your Career

I’m Gen X. I’m still paying off loans, I doubt I’ll reap any benefits from all this — but I’m not a POS who cannot acknowledge that it’s 10 times harder today than when I was in school. If we want a strong work force, then we need to invest in workers, period, end of. It’s great that you think everyone needs to pull themselves up by their bootstraps — they already are. Open your eyes. The deck is stacked against them.

Tom Nicols argues that it is bad politics:

[quote] First, the Republicans will portray this as a costly giveaway that shows just how much Democrats care about college graduates and not at all about working people

[quote] Second... If the goal is to expand the Democratic coalition, then rewarding a group that is already tilting to the Democratic Party — college-educated voters — while shrugging at people who are going broke from major illnesses and other unavoidable problems is the wrong way to do it.

[quote] Third... done by executive order — a habit both parties must break — without any significant legislative reform around education debt (which might include reforming bankruptcy laws, abolishing interest or even, perish the thought, making the colleges partly responsible for a situation they have helped create) means that there is no way to present this plan as anything other than a one-time voter buyout.

The original debt balloons and people end up paying 10x more. The least they could do it lower the interest rates to 1% and allow full interest deduction on income tax returns.

If he just reduced the debt down to the original amount owed, I'd bet millions would be out from under their loans immediately.

I don't know why I didn't understand the loans or really think about them. I just got accepted at the schools and then did what I was told. I think this is true for a lot of people. When you're in your early 20's, you think you're going to get a great job or get married and everything will be fine. We were encouraged to take out the loans and so we did. There was no good guidance.

Then maybe you're not a good interviewer or you say stupid things because you're young and stupid. And then maybe you get discouraged. Maybe nobody teaches you how to present yourself and it takes years to figure it out. Maybe you go into retail just to get a job and you get stuck there. Maybe you're afraid of failure or afraid of success. Maybe you get sick or have a breakdown or need surgery. Maybe a lot of us are not perfect people.

R325 Some of his points just don't make sense. Dems should avoid rewarding a constituency *because* they are loyal?? Do republicans use this logic to talk themselves out of spending billions bailing out farmers? Of course not because that would be dumb and self defeating for them

And now is the best time for Biden to do it because he's given away so much aid to other groups in the last COVID bill. It'll be easier to fight back against charges he only cares about highly educated people while rural stay at home mothers are cashing the new child allowance check each month.

Has he eliminated student debt yet? Has he raised the minimum wage to $15? Simple campaign promises he hasn't shown much determination to accomplish once in office.

I misread the title of the post. I thought it said, "Biden Affirms: “I Will Effeminate Your Student Debt”

This is not good enough! He needs to provide a million dollars and 3 goats to every American, anything less LITERAL VIOLENCE!