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Retail Queens

Why do so many of our less intelligent gay brothers end up trapped as retail queens, apartment leasing agents, flight attendants, and servers? It’s such a dead end career that can only end in working nights, weekends, and holidays. Even the most basics can get a vocational degree at a community college.

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by Anonymousreply 209October 28, 2020 10:12 PM

I was one until I decided to go back to school in my late 30s. I’m so glad I made that commitment.

by Anonymousreply 1October 25, 2020 3:57 PM

Why are they so fucking rude is the question? Especially in high end boutiques where I don't very much that they can afford the merchandise.

You only work in a shop, you know. You can drop the attitude.

by Anonymousreply 2October 25, 2020 4:03 PM

It used to be easier to make a career out of it--commissioned sales and promotions into management training programs. Even in the old days some people did it as a day job while pursuing something else---I worked with a guy getting a PhD in nutrition and another who did local theater, another was a go-go boy at a disco.

by Anonymousreply 3October 25, 2020 4:13 PM

My first job as a young gayling was at Foleys in Houston (any of you Texas DLers remember Foleys and Joskes?) I worked with the first guy I knew was a homo. His mom was my mom's hairdresser (!) and he was the manager of the men's dept. He was a nice guy and didn't try to do anything to me. He DID, though, take me to see my first gay film (I remember there were two films that we saw - but I can't remember the title of either of them..)

by Anonymousreply 4October 25, 2020 4:16 PM

Wasn't there a time when retail was legit? Granted that time was quite a while ago, probably finally falling to the wayside sometime in the 2000s, with the peak being? - 70s-90s?

by Anonymousreply 5October 25, 2020 4:18 PM

[quote] My first job as a young gayling was at Foleys in Houston (any of you Texas DLers remember Foleys and Joskes?)

I remember both! The women in my family worked at Foleys.

by Anonymousreply 6October 25, 2020 4:19 PM

Trigger alert warning for the Gap store playlist queen on here. She's gotta be in her late 50's by now.

by Anonymousreply 7October 25, 2020 4:21 PM

"Retail queens" used to make good money in big city boutiques and department stores. And I was thankful for them: They knew their jobs and were good at them, helping the customer look good and fitting them out on the budget allowed.

by Anonymousreply 8October 25, 2020 4:21 PM

This may no longer be true, but I always thought in years past, that there weren't a ton of job opportunities if you were an openly gay man.

Retail was fashion, so that was more accepting. Flight attendants - because gays like to travel and they do need some males in those positions. Waiters - because the money is good (at the right place) and leaves day time hours for other pursuits.

It may just be my impression, but there was quite a bit of discrimination about hiring people openly gay or suspected of being gay. They 'don't fit into our culture here'. I know things have changed a LOT the past 15 years, but it really was a thing - still is in some places in the US.

by Anonymousreply 9October 25, 2020 4:25 PM

Many of us didn't have the confidence and focus to pursue higher-end jobs, where we might've felt intimidated by those passing judgment on our being gay. We chose service jobs, instead, because we felt we could be our gay selves without receiving much criticism for it.

by Anonymousreply 10October 25, 2020 4:26 PM

R9 here - and let me add, up until maybe the last 10-20 years, I also believe that gay men were much more 'service' oriented than straight men.

Gay men know how to do customer service well. They are also over-represented in the hotel industry.

And if you were in a good high-end retail job or at an expensive restaurant, you could make very good money in those jobs.

by Anonymousreply 11October 25, 2020 4:29 PM

What a snobby question!

by Anonymousreply 12October 25, 2020 4:31 PM

[quote] I worked with the first guy I knew was a homo.

[quote]He was a nice guy and didn't try to do anything to me.

He probably read you for a douche bag from the start. First you call him a homo then you make it a point to say he “didn’t do anything TO you.” WTF? Because a guy is gay that makes him some sort of predator?

You sound like a homophobe.

by Anonymousreply 13October 25, 2020 4:33 PM

OP, Fuck you!

by Anonymousreply 14October 25, 2020 4:36 PM

I had always figured there were two factors:

1. Men who were disowned by their families for being gay and had to struggle to make it on their own.

2. Men who came from families where no one went to college but were too gay to work a factory job

And, as others have mentioned, that retail jobs used to pay a middle class salary, especially if you worked for a department store, and that many hairdressers had designs on having their own salons.

by Anonymousreply 15October 25, 2020 4:38 PM

“ It’s such a dead end career that can only end in working nights, weekends, and holidays.”

Do you think hospitals close at these times? Some of my most memorable work experiences were on night and holidays at the hospital working as RN and NP. One Christmas eve I’d spent with a 12-year-old girl with terminal leukemia, on my breaks and free time that night, I’d play Monopoly with her and watch shows on Animal Planet. Her family was dysfunctional and her mom chose to spend Christmas eve with her boyfriend.

Also OP, why look down on retail or restaurant staff? Yes some are bossy and judgmental sales-bottoms, but some are just naturals at working retail. I have nothing against people doing honest day or night of work, even if it’s menial or unskilled labor.

by Anonymousreply 16October 25, 2020 4:40 PM

OP if this is your attitude about gay wait staff, you've swallowed a lot of human fluids.

by Anonymousreply 17October 25, 2020 4:43 PM

R16, what a tremendously compassionate person you are to have spent time with that 12-year-old girl. Very kind.

by Anonymousreply 18October 25, 2020 4:44 PM

And - OP - it doesn't make them 'less intelligent'. Actually, far from it in most of my experiences. I've known many (if not most) flight attendants with college degrees - along with servers.

The problem is that some go into these jobs while they're trying to figure things out, then end up in partying gay scene, and find themselves stuck at the age of 30.

Your 20's are a unique period for gay men - they usually are out for the first time in their lives and start to build a gay life and be part of the community. It's freedom and able to life your life fully for the first time and you can get absorbed into that world.

Straight people never have to do that - they've always been who they are and keep their same friends and don't feel like they have to hide who they are for certain jobs, etc., etc.

Your 20's are a very tricky time for gay people - maybe not so much anymore. But you could easily get 'stuck' if you weren't careful.

Gay rights and acceptance goes so far - it touches every aspect of your life and younger people now just take it for granted. But where you could live, where you could work, how open you could be - these were all rather limited only until a few years ago.

Hell, gay people still flock to urban areas because of this.

by Anonymousreply 19October 25, 2020 4:44 PM

[gay men were much more 'service' oriented]

Mmm hmm. I don’t know if that’s really changed.

by Anonymousreply 20October 25, 2020 4:46 PM

As a gayling, I worked at Emporio Armani when I was in college. Yes, I was a shop bottom for a spell, but it was really fun. I had also worked at the Gap (Gay Playlist Guy!!!!). Armani was cool b/c we got pieces from each seasons collections to wear for free including shoes. There were some pretty good commissions for a college kid. I have had friends who as adults have worked at Tom Ford, Chanel and YSL. These are 6 figure sales jobs. You have to build a client book and really know your customer. It is hard word standing on your feet all day.

by Anonymousreply 21October 25, 2020 4:49 PM

Thank you, r21. You sound reasonably intelligent.

Not to mention hawt.

by Anonymousreply 22October 25, 2020 4:53 PM

[quote]This may no longer be true, but I always thought in years past, that there weren't a ton of job opportunities if you were an openly gay man.

If you were an obviously gay man, there weren't. Job options were very limited for gay men who couldn't "pass for straight."

by Anonymousreply 23October 25, 2020 5:07 PM

r16 you sound like a lovely person.

by Anonymousreply 24October 25, 2020 5:09 PM

I have multiple degree, but I do it because I'm lazy and love the discount.

by Anonymousreply 25October 25, 2020 5:11 PM

*degrees

by Anonymousreply 26October 25, 2020 5:11 PM

R18 thank you, but for me and most pediatric RNs I know, it was more fulfilling for us to spend time with vulnerable patients especially on holidays and times of need. Still have vivid memories of details such as conversations and what the kids looked like, their quirks and personalities. Some kids were assholes, some were funny as fuck, and some were just in sad situations, sometimes all three at the same time.

Retail/ restaurant work is hard. You’re at the mercy of a fickle public, some who even enjoy making life difficult for you, the service staff. I sucked at it when I worked retail in high school and as undergrad in college. I sucked at selling clothes at Macy’s. The only thing I didn’t suck at was being a barista, I could crank out beautiful drinks like a fiend. But then at the end of the 7-hour shift my left shoulder and arm would be stiff and sore from steaming large pitchers of milk. Good tips for a shift would be $20-25 for each of us working the drink station. Then if working the closing shift, we’d have to clean everything, including the floors. It was very physical work. Some people loved it. I knew it wasn’t for me.

by Anonymousreply 27October 25, 2020 5:14 PM

The same way everyone else ends up in those jobs. Because it's hard to get a better job in America no matter what your qualifications.

by Anonymousreply 28October 25, 2020 5:14 PM

Retail is great when you are young. I said upthread that there is a lot of money to be made if you are good and doing luxury. However, I think it's a very hard, competitive job and isn't something you really want to do as an adult. Unless you love and then who cares.

If you are smart and I was smart, you'll find yourself a man and job for later. I married my dentist after chipping my tooth on a quaalude.

by Anonymousreply 29October 25, 2020 5:15 PM

Commission based jobs attract a lot of people. Real Estate and restaurant serving are just a couple of them (this is why we have tipping culture, etc). They’re easy to get into and can have a relatively big payout.

by Anonymousreply 30October 25, 2020 5:15 PM

I did it all for over 30 years . Waiter ,retail , hotels , you name it . It takes real skill to work with the public since 80% of them are stupid assholes and always have been . I worked for a private club for several years , and I was raking in more money a week than many of my friends in a "professional" setting . I was very,very good at customer service and could defuse even the most irate customer . I just had a knack for it. I likened it to being an actor ,you played a part . I also perfected a death stare that could silence even the most fretful child . My coworkers were in awe on how effective it was. Alas , I did finally have my fill of it as the public became insane and the rewards were so meager . You could make a nice little living as a waiter or a clerk but companies long ago quit paying enough .

by Anonymousreply 31October 25, 2020 5:22 PM

Retail queens - advice. If you are good at your job and attractive, transition to real estate. Gaylings, start as an assistant to a high powered agent while you learn the ropes. Some older gaygents or queen bees can set you up very comfortably if you show loyalty. You can easily make around 100K your first year in a big city. Entry assistant is 80K + commission. Note, this is a 24/7 job so you definitely earn that money and deal with some Devil Wears Prada scenarios, but it can be worth it. That would be my advice. Don't waste your first year trying to figure it out when you can get paid a salary to learn how the ins and outs. If you have the whole package, you can do very well for yourself at a young age and then chart your own course in your 30's. The money is very good. This for LA, NY, SF, etc. For all those who say the aforementioned cities are dead in real estate, they are not and they will always bounce back from a slump.

by Anonymousreply 32October 25, 2020 5:27 PM

People used to be happy having a decent joy and a fulfilling private life.

by Anonymousreply 33October 25, 2020 5:41 PM

decent job--which CAN be a joy!

by Anonymousreply 34October 25, 2020 5:41 PM

At 40, what I've learned is that money gives you the freedom to make choices. It's not about the material good, although it's fine in moderation. Having the savings to sit out the early days of the pandemic at home, taking a trip when you want, being able to afford good health care. When you live paycheck to paycheck, you lose your freedom to be selective. You end up taking the job at a lower wage because you have no choice. I've had money and I have been broke as fuck. I've learned all these lessons the hard way. Since this is about retail queens - play nice. Even if you have to fake it, a friendly, accommodating attitude will take you far. A bitter, bridge burning attitude will not. Service is so shitty these days that people are blown away with basic human kindness. Another hard learned lesson.

by Anonymousreply 35October 25, 2020 5:47 PM

Actually, I miss the good old days of "retail queens" -These days they are few and far between. Today you're lucky if you can get a salesperson to wait on you at all -let alone advise you on a flattering fit or an appropriate tie.

Middle-level restaurants seem to be the last bastion of good service. I eat at my favorite Mexican restaurant twice a week, and I overtip outrageously (I know how hard it is to do the job well). The result is that everyone there knows my order and keeps the iced tea and salsa flowing throughout the meal. But even there the straight twenty-somethings are rearing their cute heads. I know they are straight because they try just a little too hard, if you know what I mean. Just a tiny notch below actual flirting. Gay servers share a glance that says "I see you, too, are gay." The straight boys try to appear cool by coming on to you a bit -But I suspect they pocket the large tip and despise you for it, thinking they pulled a fast one. Pleasant as they may be to look at, I much prefer the good-service-with-a-smile of the more seasoned servers.

by Anonymousreply 36October 25, 2020 5:49 PM

R36 that's really too complicated. If the straight boys are good waiters and throw you a flirt, why complain? You said you are a good tipper by nature. And they are providing the service. I don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 37October 25, 2020 5:55 PM

This waitress was over the top friendly at a place where the servers are known not to be. She was tipped next level. We gave her a 20% tip on a large bill and then my drunk friend was so touched, she tipped her another $100. What I am seeing now is that with everything operating a minimum capacity, the cream of the crop are the ones that have been saved and the ones with the attitude are no longer. I love seeing a friendly face at the (outdoor) gym check in instead of some scowling bitch on their phone being rude. It makes my day when someone is friendly. It really does.

by Anonymousreply 38October 25, 2020 5:55 PM

Covid has not affected your favorite Mexican restaurant R36?

by Anonymousreply 39October 25, 2020 5:57 PM

R39 - I’m in Texas and all of my favorite restaurants are open. The tables are further apart though.

by Anonymousreply 40October 25, 2020 6:02 PM

Bless your heart R40.

Are they still full?

Here in the Northeast restaurants are open at limited capacity but people seem to mostly be doing outdoor dining or takeout

by Anonymousreply 41October 25, 2020 6:08 PM

Back in the day when department stores were more prevalent, a good entry-level job for recent college graduates (especially those with liberal arts or undergrad business degrees) was one of their management trainee programs. A lot of gay men followed that career path.

by Anonymousreply 42October 25, 2020 6:09 PM

My favorite Mexican restaurant has always had a large outdoor eating area. (Southern CA) Since covid they have closed off the inside and expanded the outside. Sadly, they are no longer open for lunch, but otherwise doing pretty well.

R37, I wouldn't mind a genuine flirt at all -It's the mercenary ones that put me off. I am a reasonably good-looking, middle-aged gay man. I know the cute young guy isn't interested in anything but the tip. If he thinks he got that tip because he flirted, rather than because I am a good tipper or because he has been a good server, then it makes me feel like a dirty old man, rather than a good customer. I'm not hoping to get into his pants, I'm hoping not to see the bottom of the salsa dish.

by Anonymousreply 43October 25, 2020 6:12 PM

Salesbottoms exist because most managers of retail outlets are either women, or gay men who have worked their way up from salesbottom.

It's all but impossible to work one's way out, unless you have a partner or parents that can support you while you're in school.

by Anonymousreply 44October 25, 2020 6:14 PM

R43 you're making it too complicated. It's BAD that some gen z guy flits with schlub daddy gay customer? Do you even know how to read a flirt? Many cute 20 year old guys flirt with EVERYONE, regardless of gender. I a college prof and young women and men flirt all the time. They aren't going to get As. And I'm not going to resent the flirt. It's just a way to be charming. Sheesh! Take what you can get.

by Anonymousreply 45October 25, 2020 6:20 PM

[quote] I a college prof

God, I hope not.

by Anonymousreply 46October 25, 2020 6:28 PM

Maybe OP is not aware that there were only certain professional environments that were not inhospitable to gay people. As someone who spent the 90s in a hostile corporate environment I am not sure I would be worse off today if I had just worked at Saks during that time.

by Anonymousreply 47October 25, 2020 6:34 PM

R45,

I get what R43 is saying. I have some acquaintances who have no talent, little intelligence, below average looks, but they flirt with guys 30+ years older than they are to get things (money, a place to stay on fire island, drinks, meals out). I find it really disgusting behavior.

by Anonymousreply 48October 25, 2020 6:47 PM

R48 - You’re being judgmental! Why fault these “below average” guys for using what they have to get what they want?

by Anonymousreply 49October 25, 2020 6:49 PM

??? talentless stupid plain men flirt their ways into Fire Island weekends? On what planet is this alternative Fire Island? If an old guy pays off the flirt, he knows what he is doing. A straight waiter flirting with a middle aged gay guys is the most routine and harmless thing imaginable.

by Anonymousreply 50October 25, 2020 6:50 PM

R49,

I know I’m judgmental. That behavior really grosses me out and I can’t help the way I feel. It’s basically lying and taking advantage of others. If they want those things, they should work for it.

by Anonymousreply 51October 25, 2020 6:52 PM

The public is so insane and entitled these days, I could never work a customer service job because I would just explode. So many nasty cunty people now, it's much worse than it used to be.

by Anonymousreply 52October 25, 2020 6:53 PM

In true DL fashion the thread has turned into an argument about straight guys who flirt with gays.

Or maybe it's that R47's response is so obvious it's not worth discussing?

by Anonymousreply 53October 25, 2020 6:53 PM

If you presume people in any job are less intelligent than you, you're probably not very bright.

by Anonymousreply 54October 25, 2020 6:55 PM

R54 - I’m sorry if I’m “presuming” to be more intelligent than a queen selling women’s shoes at Neiman’s, but I hold an M.D. (doctor of medicine) AND a J.D. (doctor of jurisprudence.) I have a combined 14 years of education.

by Anonymousreply 55October 25, 2020 6:59 PM

I'm retired and had a successful career in advertising after getting a degree in graphic design. I ended up doing all manner of things in the field from web design to managing the marketing for a large, prominent public agency. I worked in retail throughout college and off and on through career changes. I really enjoy retail. Sure, it doesn't pay a lot but in the old days you could advance in your career by going into buying and management. When I worked in the ad dept of a large department store I was envious of the buyers who were paid to travel and shop. So many people start out in retail then go on to other careers.

Now that I'm retired I'm back in retail part time. The job provides extra spending money, community, flexibility, and contact with the public.

by Anonymousreply 56October 25, 2020 7:04 PM

R55 No, you're just more educated, and nobody cares about your degrees.

by Anonymousreply 57October 25, 2020 7:04 PM

Yes, R55 is more educated. It takes a certain level of dedication that most gays (and many straight people don’t have). That dedication deserves some respect.

by Anonymousreply 58October 25, 2020 7:06 PM

Also there are people who work retail or wait tables, etc. who have degrees, and by the way it's not a job everyone does because they *have* to do it. Your whole attitude is off-putting.

by Anonymousreply 59October 25, 2020 7:06 PM

One can be highly educated and still quite stupid . Ben Carson comes to mind. I believe R55 might be highly educated ,but he still seems to be an insufferable bore .

by Anonymousreply 60October 25, 2020 7:10 PM

[quote]Yes, [R55] is more educated. It takes a certain level of dedication that most gays (and many straight people don’t have). That dedication deserves some respect.

A level of dedication "most gays and many straight people..."? Wtf kind of comment is that? Gays aren't as dedicated as straights? I feel like this was written by a straight person in 1950.

I have a very good education but at times I've worked retail, and had a lot of different jobs, because I'm in the arts. A lot of people who have achieved more than OP have done even more menial jobs, even after having been educated. Read some biographies of authors sometime.

by Anonymousreply 61October 25, 2020 7:11 PM

Very fortunate to never have to work paid retail or service jobs. On the other hand, had working class parents who made lots of sacrifices to do that so I could focus on school and get a professional job.

by Anonymousreply 62October 25, 2020 7:12 PM

[quote] I always thought in years past, that there weren't a ton of job opportunities if you were an openly gay man.

R9's point, addressed by others as well, is particularly important.

After WWII a lot of gay soldiers returning to the U.S. had seen enough of the world that they decided against moving back to the farm and chose cities instead. Lacking social connections and degrees in specialty fields at a time when degrees were far fewer, they favored service jobs as something that could be picked up quickly and with low startup costs. The occupation of florists, for example, became a significantly gay occupation, requiring a bit of capital to open a shop in this case, but not insurmountable costs for a retail job in which you could be your own boss.

Retail sales people were chosen for their presentability and kept on and promoted for social skills in bringing in high sales and commissions. There were opportunities for upward movement and that route was favored over today's pattern in bringing in a new management regime, top down.

It wasn't such a dirty picture as OP paints of uneducated people making bad choices. These were great choices for people who found a way off the farm or out of some pokey little stuffing town into a job where they could make good money, had benefits and pensions and real advancement opportunities, and a level of respect for the quality of their work. They also didn't have to fabricate elaborate stories about wives and girlfriends, didn't have to trot a beard around to be scrutinized at office parties, didn't have to open conversations with newly net business associates with questions about their marriage.

by Anonymousreply 63October 25, 2020 7:19 PM

R55, let's see the diploma or it didn't happen.

I don't know a single professional who would use 'tad' in a sentence.

by Anonymousreply 64October 25, 2020 7:23 PM

and esp. not "tad bit"

by Anonymousreply 65October 25, 2020 7:25 PM

Well I have a J.D., an M.D., and MBA and a PhD

So I win

by Anonymousreply 66October 25, 2020 7:27 PM

Fuck you R66

I have a JD, MD, DDS, MBA, PhD and I own a Sweet'n'Low factory

by Anonymousreply 67October 25, 2020 7:28 PM

[quote] So many nasty cunty people now, it's much worse than it used to be.

You better believe it too.

by Anonymousreply 68October 25, 2020 7:29 PM

Very true.

Just a year ago, no one even used the word "cunt" or "cunty" on DL unless they were Brits

Now it's in every fifth post!

by Anonymousreply 69October 25, 2020 7:30 PM

[quote] I have a JD, MD, DDS, MBA, PhD

Pish posh. I have all these degrees too.

They’re not mine, but I do have the degrees.

by Anonymousreply 70October 25, 2020 7:30 PM

[quote] but I hold an M.D. (doctor of medicine) AND a J.D. (doctor of jurisprudence.)

We can tell by the way you snobbishly look down your nose at everyone else who is trying to make an honest days work for an honest days pay but isn’t in your station in life. In short, you’re an arrogant shit.

You may be book smart and good at taking tests, but you ain’t very smart.

by Anonymousreply 71October 25, 2020 7:33 PM

But do you own a Sweet'n'Low factory R70?

Well?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 72October 25, 2020 7:35 PM

Barbara: [looks at Rhonda ] Oh, such cute earrings.

Rhonda Weiss: Oh, I got them from my brother. He’s a dentist and a jeweler.

Barbara: Really? My brother’s a doctor and a lawyer.

Rhonda Weiss: Really?

Barbara: And a furrier! When I had my accident, he examined me, defended me, and replaced my coat.

Rhonda Weiss: Well, my other brother is a dentist, a jeweler, a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, and the owner of a Sweet and Low factory.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 73October 25, 2020 7:37 PM

No, I don’t, r72. You got me.

I did, however, once own a Mrs. Field’s Cookie store.

But when business is slow you tend to eat the inventory.

by Anonymousreply 74October 25, 2020 7:39 PM

UK here. I worked in a call centre while finishing my PhD and it was full of gay guys, disproportionately so.

by Anonymousreply 75October 25, 2020 7:39 PM

What a vile, snobbish thread. But what do expect from DL.

by Anonymousreply 76October 25, 2020 7:41 PM

Kick them in the cunt bone.

by Anonymousreply 77October 25, 2020 7:42 PM

Actually, r76, I’m expecting exactly what we got:

OP got ratioed, as he should have. That’s what *I* expect from my fellow DLers.

by Anonymousreply 78October 25, 2020 7:42 PM

You all do realize that OP was trolling you, right?

by Anonymousreply 79October 25, 2020 7:44 PM

No R79, he/she/ze is serious.

by Anonymousreply 80October 25, 2020 7:46 PM

A lot of gay men came to big cities not for their “careers” but because they wanted to lead fabulous lives as gay men. They wanted to be a part of the whole night world of dancing and partying. They knew that they weren’t going to get married and have to put kids through college—they didn’t need to slave away to becoming a partner in a law firms. They had escaped their families and small towns and they wanted to enjoy themselves.

At least that’s the impression I get from stories about pre-AIDS life.

by Anonymousreply 81October 25, 2020 7:53 PM

And to add to what r63 said, cities were much more affordable back then. You could have a retail career in a higher-end store and still live a pretty comfortable life in a place like NYC.

Impossible today, of course.

by Anonymousreply 82October 25, 2020 7:58 PM

I got stuck in work such as retail clerk, phone sales and supermarket work. Life happened when I was trying to live my life. I just could not finish my degree, despite my best efforts. Looking back, I see where I went wrong. I am now older, too old to realistically plan on ever finishing a degree. Never mind that once I was a student with a 4.0 average. Now I have Parkinson's disease. Now what?

I did learn, however, that there is no such thing as a shitty job, just a shitty attitude. I give every job my best efforts. That is noticed!

by Anonymousreply 83October 25, 2020 8:12 PM

I don't remember seeing lots of gay men in retail (e.g., Macy's), except in the shoe departments. Lots of salesmen in the shoe department. Apparently, it was a well-paid gig (shoe sales on commission).

[quote] Middle-level restaurants seem to be the last bastion of good service.

About a year ago, I treated a friend to a restaurant meal of his choice. He picked an old school, high-end restaurant (I had never been). I was impressed with the service. I ordered something that was halfway between a cioppino and a bouillabaisse and it was brought out in a heated bowl. Stayed hot 'til I was done eating. Bread crumbs raked off the tablecloth, etc. Courses came out a nice pace.

by Anonymousreply 84October 25, 2020 8:14 PM

R83, you’re excellent and don’t feel about where you are now. I have come to the conclusion that people’s success sometimes has a lot of luck factoring into it, and some people don’t have great luck. You’re lucky you seem to have a nice disposition and probably a lot of friends and loved ones see that.

As to snobhead OP, maybe a lot of these men want to get a discount on cool clothes, ever think of that?

by Anonymousreply 85October 25, 2020 8:32 PM

[quote] Never mind that once I was a student with a 4.0 average.

So you made Dean Martin’s list!

[quote]Now I have Parkinson's disease. Now what?

Now what? You continue living your life. No need to give up now.

You know we love you here so at least you’ve got that.

And I just gave you a hug. And because this IS DL after all, I have to say you turned my glass of milk into a milk shake, but that’s ok, it’s tastier.

by Anonymousreply 86October 25, 2020 8:49 PM

[quote] Never mind that once I was a student with a 4.0 average.

Oh, please. When I went to school I had a 6.0 average.

by Anonymousreply 87October 25, 2020 8:51 PM

Well this thread devolved quickly into the usual boring bickering. Nobody gives a shit how many degrees you have. I enjoyed the posters explaining why people went into retail earlier on. More of that please.

by Anonymousreply 88October 25, 2020 8:58 PM

They are hoping to latch on to a rich old man they might encounter through their job.

by Anonymousreply 89October 25, 2020 8:59 PM

[quote]I have a JD, MD, DDS, MBA, PhD and I own a Sweet'n'Low factory

Oh yeah? Well I invented Post-It notes!

by Anonymousreply 90October 25, 2020 9:04 PM

Sending R83 a hug.

I worked in retail from 18 to 22. Took a job as office manager after, really bluffed my way in.

Now I work as COO at a medium-sized company (no longer a startup, but still as messy as one..) — and I sometimes find myself longing back to the simpler retail days...

by Anonymousreply 91October 25, 2020 9:05 PM

[quote] Now I work as COO at a medium-sized company

Does this mean you coo at new fashions and fashion models?

by Anonymousreply 92October 25, 2020 9:07 PM

Oh, dear R92 - if only that’s how I could spend my weekdays

by Anonymousreply 93October 25, 2020 9:09 PM

R81 that is so sad.

by Anonymousreply 94October 25, 2020 9:10 PM

I have a JD, MBA, MD, CPA. DDS, LLM and I'm working on my PhD

I'm 45 and should be done sometime next year.

I also have a tech startup--it's like Uber for Keto Breakfast Muffins

by Anonymousreply 95October 25, 2020 9:15 PM

I have a LSD, MBA and a LMNOP.

by Anonymousreply 96October 25, 2020 9:17 PM

Well I have a DNA and an LLC, along with a PDQ and an ASAP.

So fuck all y’all.

by Anonymousreply 97October 25, 2020 9:23 PM

I am the architeckt.

by Anonymousreply 98October 25, 2020 9:47 PM

And I've got a Yale JD, 9 inches, and part-T favors.

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by Anonymousreply 99October 25, 2020 9:49 PM

I have fond memories of working in H&M at 17; some of the queens there were an exercise in worldliness to my green eyes before I went to uni. They must’ve been about 30, but they seemed so sure, powerful and in control. Whether they were or not, I have no idea, but they were good people.

What is it your business whether Kenny at H&M does a degree or lives his life as he does? The pinnacle of education is insight; there are many with no formal education replete with it and many with reams of qualifications without it. Stop being snobby and wish good people the best.

Twat.

by Anonymousreply 100October 25, 2020 10:31 PM

IMO, OP's question was an interesting question asked in a bitchy fashion (this is DL). If the answers here help some young gaylings to expand their financial options, then that's good. Money is freedom.

I have *one* advanced college degree, which I do use in my field of work. I wouldn't be that impressed by someone who brags about multiple professional degrees. It's fine if you have the money to pay for those degrees, but most of us just need to earn a living.

by Anonymousreply 101October 25, 2020 10:38 PM

R83. I have two PhDs (no, not humblebrag—the second was when I was in my mid-forties, had a sabbatical coming, and the degree program paid tuition and a stipend, which provided most of the other half of my salary the sabbatical did not cover) and retired the end of August after four decades in higher ed. I enjoyed the opportunities working in higher ed offered (and the flexible time schedule, as well as the students and some of my colleagues). But I’m not sorry to have taken retirement at 63–I was worn out, finding a bigger gap between me and the students, and found some of the job a grind. And I know a lot of very educated folk (I.e. advanced degrees) who are perfectly miserable and make the lives of their co-workers miserable. You sound like a nice person and I am sorry to hear about the Parkinson’s (one of my colleagues was diagnosed with it at 30 and his life has been tough)—you might find out you have had a happier life, with friendlier co-workers than if you’d done the undergrad/grad/pro-school path. Be well.

by Anonymousreply 102October 25, 2020 10:44 PM

[quote] our less intelligent gay brothers end up trapped as retail queens

FFS, OP, that was really loaded and truly insulting. Not everyone is cut out to be a degreed professional that requires extensive schooling. As many have mentioned, there are fields in which many men went when they didn't "fit" more traditional roles. This trend is waning now, but back in the days when college was for the very rich or very smart people often took jobs to pay the bills. When I was 18 (late 1960s), my father took me to the men's department of the fancy department store downtown. All the men were professionals who devoted their lives to this -- not fashion exactly, but they really knew their stuff. My father had a favorite salesman, Doug, who was really effeminate but they knew each other from high school (maybe?).

Also, my mother had a favorite waiter at a nice restaurant and these guys were all married with kids.

by Anonymousreply 103October 25, 2020 11:07 PM

If I'm not mistaken, an enterprising young retail queen could make a nice living in some niche areas such as women's shoes, men's suits, bridal, etc. I think Covid may have killed that though.

by Anonymousreply 104October 25, 2020 11:17 PM

R55, take a lesson from r100.

R100, thank you for a well thought out and pleasant response. You represent your profession well.

Though as you know me being an American, I’m forced under International Law to say “pip pip” after I say barrister. I don’t know why that is, but I obey the law, dammit.

by Anonymousreply 105October 26, 2020 12:10 AM

Not everyone is going end up being a white collar professional, society doesn't work that way.

And if you like to travel flight attendant isn't a bad gig to get, no surprise it attracts a fair number of gay guys who are less likely to have families and like jetsetting.

by Anonymousreply 106October 26, 2020 12:25 AM

I’m a PhD and have an MBA. I work part time at H&M.

by Anonymousreply 107October 26, 2020 12:35 AM

[quote] Not everyone is going end up being a white collar professional, society doesn't work that way.

As all of my teachers used to say to me with a sigh, “the world needs ditch diggers too.”

by Anonymousreply 108October 26, 2020 12:36 AM

R107 backstory please

by Anonymousreply 109October 26, 2020 12:40 AM

I have a D.D. to get me to A.A. so my queenliness triumphs over anything in the retail world! Let me tell you girl the queens bow down to me! I AM BOSS LADY!

by Anonymousreply 110October 26, 2020 1:40 AM

Retail queens, don't like these bitches shame you. When I worked int retail in college in the early 2000's, you had to be hot work on Rodeo (or someplace similar) and be able to wear the clothes well. Managers would watch through the video cams as applicants came in for interviews to see how long the interview was. If you were hot, you would get the job. So retail bitches, you are probably hot and personable, which counts out the majority of DL.

by Anonymousreply 111October 26, 2020 7:44 AM

R111 - agree! Our salesmen here in Texas are so hot and masculine, I get warm just looking at them!

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by Anonymousreply 112October 26, 2020 11:51 AM

My initial thought was the same as R9. DL is an interesting place because there seems to be a lot of older gay men who did extraordinarily well in the professions and corporate world, earning in the top 2% and living very comfortable urban lives. It really surprised me when I first came here. I was raised in the U.K. and 30 years ago men like me had our class and our sexuality going against us. It would have been very, very hard for a straight man from a council estate in the Wirral to end up as we say back home “high up” in a big corporation. If you were an effeminate gay men you’d be more likely to become a pop star really. The only exception I can think of is being in the upper classes where your parents can pay for the best education and you have the connections to get in.

I did get a job in the local factory at 16 and needless to say I was closeted and trying to butch you my body language and voice. I have nothing but admiration for the few effeminate men I knew who just owned it and got jobs in retail and hairdressing. I’m an introvert and would be terrible in those jobs but they were the only options for a safe space to work.

And don’t be a snob. Not everyone can work a white collar job. We need millions of blue collar workers to keep the world going. If every American got a degree and a white collar job we would need to bring back open borders to fill all of the blue collar jobs. There is no shame in working in the service industry. Many people find it very fulfilling. The only shame is that we’ve allowed a society where an honest 40 hour week won’t even pay enough for a one bed apartment in most cities while the top 1% get richer and richer and screw is all deeper and deeper.

by Anonymousreply 113October 26, 2020 12:17 PM

I have a friend who has a master's degree but continues to basically wait tables at a restaurant. He says he does it because it gives him a pretty decent salary and he's free in life to do what he wants without being tethered to a 9-5 job.

For a short time, I also went out with a guy who had an MBA but took a job as a flight attendant for basically the same reason.

by Anonymousreply 114October 26, 2020 2:19 PM

Retail queens who pretend they are as rich as the people shopping at the store are the most pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 115October 26, 2020 2:31 PM

R115 - I hate this!! When I’m purchasing $800 worth of clothes at Bloomies and then lunching afterwards at Bab’s, they converse with me as if they’re my equal. I just smile politely and nod, thinking to myself “I’m spending more money today than you make in a month.”

by Anonymousreply 116October 26, 2020 2:38 PM

R113 - the harsh reality is that those who are older on this board who became successful were almost uniformly in the closet (DEEP) at work during the first couple of decades of work. It was a minefield you had to navigate on almost a daily basis and it became increasingly difficult as you aged.

You made up for it by working harder and longer hours than your co-workers and keeping your head down. However, there was always a limit in how high you could rise in the ranks. You took female friends as your dates to functions as it was just expected and no way could you ever bring your partner.

Homophobia and anti-gay comments were the norm - and I worked in NYC and Chicago. We really only got out of this in the past 10 years. It was still common in the 2000's and a career-killer if you came out. You definitely didn't mention it - even casually.

I can't count how many times people on this board have criticized others for not being out at work and calling them cowards. However, if you wanted to succeed and not have all your hard work thrown away, that was the best option for you.

To be successful, there's always a price to pay in terms of workload in your 20's and 30's - but for gays and lesbians, the burden was even higher. You gave up a lot of yourself and identity in ways straight people would never understand.

And the worst were the few people that you may come out to - your very close personal work friends who you got to know over years - who would then openly discuss it among others outside your circle without thinking about it. That was the worst - a naive, unintentional betrayal that could derail your career and advancement opportunities. They would always just shrug it off and say it's no big deal - when you knew better. It was a big deal and, although it is better now, being out can still harm your work relationships and options.

Of course there were always a few professions or cities (SF) where it was different, and I expect people to reply and say - that's not true! and only where you worked!. But I know differently.

by Anonymousreply 117October 26, 2020 2:55 PM

I do not understand the condescension. We're supposed to support each other and value others' strengths. I worked at Bloomingdales part time when I was in school. I met many people with advanced degrees and/or rich husbands. People have to understand that there is still systemic homophobia in corporate America. The gays are the first to be let go in corporate downsizing and don't get the same promotions or raises. Gays with the most money are in their own businesses or creative fields. I learned things at the Bloomingdale's sales counter that I carry today. The poise learned and the showmanships carries to many professions. After too many years in corporate accounting, I became successful in real estate, utilizing a lot of my Bloomingdale's sales training.

by Anonymousreply 118October 26, 2020 3:29 PM

Retail is not a bad job at all. If it's a commission position, then you directly receive the rewards of your hard work. If you work your butt off, then it shows in your paycheck. (In an office environment, it's easy for someone to slack off unnoticed and still reap the rewards on the backs of the overachievers on the team.)

It's perfect for extroverted people who actually feel energized when they talk to other people, and it's great for someone who doesn't want to sit on their ass staring at a computer screen all day.

by Anonymousreply 119October 26, 2020 3:43 PM

R113 - This is just DL jibber jabber. I thought the same as you until I had said that I felt it unfair that $400K be part of the tax hikes proposed by Biden. I find that threshold to be very upper middle class, not wealthy nor deserving of 62% taxation in places like NY and CA. Growing up in a household where my dad made a bit more than that but 200K more was a very working white collar, normal life. Not Ferraris and mansions. The comments of how out of touch I was with in terms of the definition of wealth and how that was just so much money came fast. I think there is a lot of puffing on here. For working urban professionals doing well, 400K is not very much money in relation to the real 1% of generational inherited wealth.

DL is just pissing on retail sales people because I think people have their own insecurities about shopping in nice stores and go in with a "less than mentality", perceiving everything as a slight or rude. There is rudeness out there for sure, but for the most part people are generally nice and helpful. The judging started before people enter the store.

by Anonymousreply 120October 26, 2020 4:00 PM

"too gay to work in a factory job" lmao!

by Anonymousreply 121October 26, 2020 4:06 PM

Oh stop R120. Let's not have that debate again.

[quote] For working urban professionals doing well, 400K is not very much money in relation to the real 1% of generational inherited wealth.

This is exactly the attitude that will give us another Trump worse than this one. Accept that 400K is a top 2% salary and that trying to protect these people from taxes by comparing them to the 0.01% are trying to pretend they are average is driving people to the Right and god help us all but without the pandemic we would have had another 4 years guaranteed. And when the next Trump brings more chaos and more division and more mismanagement those 400K people will sit in their lovely homes and look at their 401Ks and investments and send thoughts and prayers, maybe do a Zoom where they express deep solidarity with all Americans while we slip closer and closer to third world country with no middle class.

by Anonymousreply 122October 26, 2020 4:09 PM

R120 in that thread you said your father made 600K, you were an entitled brat who got cut off the gravy train and turned to prostitution and now you're in here shading retail workers. Take several seats.

by Anonymousreply 123October 26, 2020 4:12 PM

Actually no, R123. I did work retail in college and I did turn to prostitiution later in life - you are correct on that. Having worked retail, I think it's lame to see others shitting on retail workers. It's a job and can be a lucrative one. People deserve respect. I'm writing in defense of sales people and have throughout this thread.

by Anonymousreply 124October 26, 2020 4:23 PM

R122, that scenario is more like celebrities lecturing from their golden pedestals as they constantly do, not small business owners, doctors, lawyers, professors, etc.

by Anonymousreply 125October 26, 2020 4:24 PM

are retail jobs in shops still paying commissions? I thought they are min wage jobs.

I know that there are many "personal shoppers" these days and they take a percentage. they ship you the goods. they shop all over the city.

by Anonymousreply 126October 26, 2020 4:29 PM

Were these two actually gay men?

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by Anonymousreply 127October 26, 2020 4:34 PM

For Chrissakes, the $400k thread was about an article that made up bogus numbers to prove it was solidly middle class. And the tax increase for those around $400k would be minimal as it would only be a slight bit more from a bracket perspective.

Let's all leave that to rest - $400k is upper 2% and is by definition not middle class. And no, they are not going to be disproportionately hit with higher taxes either. It's those with incomes greatly exceeding $400k that is going to feel a slight adjustment - of just 2%.

Now - back to the thread. Homophobia and anti-gay bias has kept gays out of a lot of professions historically...

by Anonymousreply 128October 26, 2020 4:37 PM

"It's very expensive". Ha - Michael K used to riff on this bitches on D-Listed and I think one of them received a Hot Slut of the Week.

by Anonymousreply 129October 26, 2020 4:38 PM

R128 - It was said by Biden and widely reported on by every news source including CNN, WSJ, WaPO, NY Times. At least stop posting false info so that people know the facts and can make their own decisions.

Now back to the retail thread.

by Anonymousreply 130October 26, 2020 4:44 PM

R130 - what was said by Biden? That taxes would go up for people over $400k? Yes - but if you understand tax brackets, you'd know it would be a low amount for people who just meet that threshold.

It's not false info - you're just too stupid to understand tax brackets.

And don't act like you've been entirely nice on this thread - you posted at R2 implying that they were rude and stuckup - even if it was an AbFab reference.

by Anonymousreply 131October 26, 2020 4:50 PM

R130 Yes because 98% of people support an increase in taxes on the 2%. End of. We are in a pandemic, facing the worst economic recession in decades, nobody gives a flying fuck about California lawyers on high salaries getting a tax hike. If they don't like it, let them move off to Europe where they will earn 50% less and start getting taxed 44%+ on salaries over 50K.

by Anonymousreply 132October 26, 2020 4:53 PM

Wait why are we discussing taxes and income levels? This thread is so we can look down on lowly retail workers. That’s what I enjoy.

by Anonymousreply 133October 26, 2020 4:55 PM

[quote] I do not understand the condescension.

What I hate is the Retail Queen's condescension towards me. The minute they realize I'm gay, it becomes a "I work at this luxury brand store and wear great clothes; why should I bother with you attitude."

I'm happy to give their straight colleague who actually helps me the sale

by Anonymousreply 134October 26, 2020 4:59 PM

R133 - it was R120 who is still burning from the blowback he received on the other thread when he declared his father's $600k income as middle class. He's still trying to justify his ignorance and keeps digging a bigger hole each time.

by Anonymousreply 135October 26, 2020 4:59 PM

This is such a dumb, homophobic thread. Shocker: gay people aren’t that much different from straight people. We are in all industries, all walks of life.

R134

I’ve had several gay retail workers and they were all nice to me. I’ve actually come across very rude straight workers.

by Anonymousreply 136October 26, 2020 5:04 PM

Every Gift, Only GAP!

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by Anonymousreply 137October 26, 2020 5:05 PM

gap is closing lots and lots of stores. they are practically out of biz. They are gonna focus on old navy.

by Anonymousreply 138October 26, 2020 5:11 PM

R138 is posting from 2019.

Old Navy is slipping while GAP is rebounding.

#GapStrong

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by Anonymousreply 139October 26, 2020 5:15 PM

I used to manage a casual $$-$$$ range restaurant and most of the full time servers are making 80,000-100,000 a year, most were in their late 20's to late 30's.

by Anonymousreply 140October 26, 2020 5:18 PM

R140 - No server anywhere ever made $80,000.

by Anonymousreply 141October 26, 2020 5:19 PM

Gap is "rebounding" because the masks sales. that's it. They were already in trouble before the pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 142October 26, 2020 5:20 PM

People are really are clueless and then put that information out as fact. There are plenty of servers that make six figures at top restaurants. I know servers at Jean George in BH, Nobu Malibu who make 120K a year pre pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 143October 26, 2020 5:24 PM

R141 - you are flat wrong. Servers in steakhouses routinely make much more than that. You can make that much if you are in a moderately expensive restaurant that has a good following and is busy most days of the week.

They don't have to work at the high-end places like R143 mentions.

by Anonymousreply 144October 26, 2020 5:29 PM

Gap is rebounding nicely.

Old Navy’s mask sales aren’t helping at all.

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by Anonymousreply 145October 26, 2020 5:29 PM

Gap should be doing well. The majority of the unwashed masses love cheap clothes, especially in a pandemic when they may be making even less money than they previously did.

by Anonymousreply 146October 26, 2020 5:32 PM

I'm living for cheap sweat pants and hoodies from target and gap right now. They had an epic outlet sale and I stocked up.

by Anonymousreply 147October 26, 2020 5:46 PM

From 16 to 26 I worked at various restaurants and stores while going to school (for Arts, yeah I know).

I’m not technically qualified to do anything in particular, mostly because I have been depressed all that time and lack essential basic confidence (didn’t get into the good schools & programs I applied to in high-school), but also because my only real aptitude is creative writing (which is how I scraped by in College & University despite limits). The depression issue means I lack any connections or social circle to get me into a well-paying do-nothing job, and the fact that I have high-functioning autism restricts how far I can charm my way up any ladder by myself.

It sucks, because I don’t think I’m dumb (no genius, but I get by and I’m well-spoken enough to fake it) and I have creativity to offer, but nowhere decent will hire me with a middling BA and a patchy resume full of low rent work. I’m also pretty conscientious, pleasant-natured (if quiet and serious), and good with people1-1.

I remember my father telling me, in the throes of my last breakdown, that the best I could hope for was either coordinating at a garbage dump or managing a Walmart someday if I got lucky. That really hurt.

by Anonymousreply 148October 26, 2020 5:58 PM

Don't listen to him R148. That's bullshit. You have some disabilities and that makes things harder. Can you use your writing in some way? I know being creative is hard when you are depressed. Are you taking anything to treat your depression?

by Anonymousreply 149October 26, 2020 6:18 PM

R147 It's all about attitude. The most successful people don't let a defeat slow them down, they pick themselves up and keep charging. It is too bad that your parents weren't more supportive but you can overcome that. "Fake it till you make it" comes to mind. Don't tell people what you can't do. Displays of insecurity are not appealing to anyone. You have to be interesting in order to attract interesting people. You are lucky that you can write, most can't, and it gives you a huge advantage.

by Anonymousreply 150October 26, 2020 6:18 PM

R150 was responding to R148.

by Anonymousreply 151October 26, 2020 6:20 PM

[quote] (In an office environment, it's easy for someone to slack off unnoticed and still reap the rewards on the backs of the overachievers on the team.)

Not on my watch, buddy.

by Anonymousreply 152October 26, 2020 6:45 PM

[quote] End of.

*eyeroll*

by Anonymousreply 153October 26, 2020 6:46 PM

OP, bravo!

by Anonymousreply 154October 26, 2020 8:28 PM

For her, I think you mean ‘brava!’

by Anonymousreply 155October 26, 2020 8:38 PM

The OP asked why so many of our younger brethren end up in retail/service jobs. That's an interesting question. All this "discussion" of tax brackets and debating salaries is boring and off-topic. So is the terrible condescension toward people in retail. C'mon, people -Quit shitting on each other and stick to the topic at hand.

by Anonymousreply 156October 26, 2020 9:29 PM

What's up with the snobbishness and bashing people based on their jobs?

You sound like Jared Kushner

by Anonymousreply 157October 26, 2020 9:34 PM

Yet another condescending thread. Doesn't OP have better things to do than to think of ways to put down others.

Does it make you feel better about yourself?

I'm really surprised that so many "elites" spend so much time on DL.

by Anonymousreply 158October 26, 2020 9:55 PM

[Quote] Doesn't OP have better things to do than to think of ways to put down others.

Um, you new around here?

by Anonymousreply 159October 26, 2020 10:04 PM

Gay ICONS like SJP worked as GAP models!

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by Anonymousreply 160October 26, 2020 10:10 PM

[quote] I’m sorry if I’m “presuming” to be more intelligent than a queen selling women’s shoes at Neiman’s, but I hold an M.D. (doctor of medicine) AND a J.D. (doctor of jurisprudence.) I have a combined 14 years of education.

And obviously very impressed with yourself.

Do you not allow these "queens" to assist you when you purchase ladies's shoes for yourself at Neiman's?

by Anonymousreply 161October 26, 2020 10:14 PM

^grammar typo: should be ladies'

by Anonymousreply 162October 26, 2020 10:20 PM

^punctuation typo: should be ladies'; Sorry, I only have an M.S. in economics. Perhaps I'm one of those "less intelligent gay men" with all of my errors.

by Anonymousreply 163October 26, 2020 10:24 PM

I still have fantasies about the handsome sales daddy at Bloomingdales who gave me the friends and family discount for my Hanro underpants. Call me!

by Anonymousreply 164October 26, 2020 10:35 PM

GAP is where it's at!

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by Anonymousreply 165October 26, 2020 10:56 PM

[quote] Gay ICONS like SJP worked as GAP models!

Sarah Jessica Parker was a GAP model?!

by Anonymousreply 166October 26, 2020 11:11 PM

Fall 2004:

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by Anonymousreply 167October 26, 2020 11:13 PM

Spring 2005:

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by Anonymousreply 168October 26, 2020 11:13 PM

Fall 2004:

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by Anonymousreply 169October 26, 2020 11:14 PM

DO NOT ENGAGE THE CRAKEN!

by Anonymousreply 170October 26, 2020 11:16 PM

R166 R167 R168 I knew there must have been some good reason that I never shopped there very much.

She's gone pretty far for such an ugly woman.

by Anonymousreply 171October 26, 2020 11:16 PM

Don't walk, run to your local Macy's department store, so I can sell you a bottle of Colonia Quercia Acqua di Parma. Hurry, before it winds up at Stein Mart! Did I mention I make $100k a year working this counter at Macy's?

by Anonymousreply 172October 26, 2020 11:22 PM

Ooh, r172, do you have any Ice Blue Aqua Velva left?

by Anonymousreply 173October 26, 2020 11:24 PM

I was a diner waiter in Kootenai County. Wore a dirty jock under my uniform pants. I loved taking truck stop loads with cum and lube leaking out of my filth trench. Diners could smell my musky boihole odors.

by Anonymousreply 174October 26, 2020 11:26 PM

If you can find a OG vintage bottle of Fahrenheit or Égoïste in the stock room, I'll do ANYTHING you ask.

by Anonymousreply 175October 26, 2020 11:28 PM

My damned ol asshole is sore

by Anonymousreply 176October 26, 2020 11:32 PM

These are all fine jobs to have in order to make a living. I truly believe their is dignity in all work.

I was a fag nyc waiter in the early 90s and I had a fucking blast. I made great money, met amazing interesting people and got laid by hot guys - both co-workers and customers.

by Anonymousreply 177October 26, 2020 11:36 PM

The Retail Queens thread has been this wild journey of I don't know where, but it's had many twist and turns. G-d bless anyone working in retail, now but especially in the crazy days of early Covid. That was especially scary and everyone that was there for food, supplies, anything that was open in March-June - thank you, thank you!

by Anonymousreply 178October 27, 2020 1:15 AM

[quote]Hurry, before it winds up at Stein Mart! Did I mention I make $100k a year working this counter at Macy's?

SteinMart declared bankruptcy and closed all their stores.

by Anonymousreply 179October 27, 2020 2:09 AM

R172, it won’t end up at Stein Mart. The chain is closing all of its stores by October 31, 2020.

by Anonymousreply 180October 27, 2020 2:43 AM

I have 98.6 degrees.

by Anonymousreply 181October 27, 2020 3:22 AM

So, at this point in the thread, I'd like to give the mic to the servers, retail men, and flight attendants to add their comments.

They have been relatively silent on this thread - most likely because it started off so negatively by OP.

by Anonymousreply 182October 27, 2020 3:32 AM

Hey, Judgey OP, have you ever considered that lots of people make their own choices and don't give a crap what you think they should do?

Everybody has the ability to change up their career, so as baffling as it may be to you, some people are content doing what they do, regardless of your scorn.

by Anonymousreply 183October 27, 2020 3:34 AM

I remember Joske's and Foley's. I also remember when Palais Royal was an upscale store.

by Anonymousreply 184October 27, 2020 3:42 AM

Shopbottoms will soon be a thing of the past. Why would I go into a store if I can shop online? Replace them all with factory robots and free shipping. Same with waiterbottoms - customers order on iPads and trays run on tracks to the tables.

by Anonymousreply 185October 27, 2020 4:02 AM

[quote][R140] - No server anywhere ever made $80,000.

You know NOTHING, r141.

I quit waiting tables at a mid-range restaurant (Ernie's on Broadway + 76th street) in 1992 and I was making $50,000 a year, twenty-eight years ago. I only worked four nights a week, because I had other things to do!

by Anonymousreply 186October 27, 2020 4:10 AM

Yes, let's just put everyone you don't like out out of work

by Anonymousreply 187October 27, 2020 4:14 AM

I worked for five years in restaurants then went back to school. IMO, restaurant work is more lucrative than retail. Hours (restaurant) are worse, though. Also, if your restaurant is open on Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc., expect to be working on those days. With retail, you're probably off at least on Christmas.

Restaurant work is harder on your body (walking, carrying heavy things, crouching, etc.). Plus, I'm guessing there is a *lot* of age discrimination (I quit when young). Also, I'm not-bad looking, but there were a *lot* of places that would never hire me because they were looking for someone better-looking. It's ridiculous and depressing. I'm not surprised when restaurants get bogged down in sexual harassment lawsuits.

Restaurant work probably has more temptations (than retail) to drink and use drugs.

by Anonymousreply 188October 27, 2020 4:22 AM

[quote] Why would I go into a store if I can shop online?

What if you need to try something on?

by Anonymousreply 189October 27, 2020 4:30 AM

[quote] Same with waiterbottoms - customers order on iPads and trays run on tracks to the tables.

Just more depersonalization.

by Anonymousreply 190October 27, 2020 4:32 AM

I can still remember my first retail position.

"Our new one-piece lace foundation garment. Zips up the back and no bone."

by Anonymousreply 191October 27, 2020 4:49 AM

I’m in retail.

At least I make more than my teacher friends.

by Anonymousreply 192October 27, 2020 5:02 AM

What type of store do you work in, R192? What are the customers like? Glad you are making a decent living.

by Anonymousreply 193October 27, 2020 5:46 AM

r191 Could you show me some hostess pajamas? And maybe a crushy belt and some ballet slippers? I'm looking for birthday gift for my neighbor.

by Anonymousreply 194October 27, 2020 5:46 AM

California lists all public employee salaries. Teachers can make up to six figures if you count benefits as income.

by Anonymousreply 195October 27, 2020 9:43 AM

[quote] I truly believe their is dignity in all work.

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 196October 27, 2020 3:41 PM

[quote] Zips up the back and no bone.

No bone in the back?

What a depressing world to think about.

by Anonymousreply 197October 27, 2020 3:42 PM

According to the CDC, the highest occupational suicide rates are retail queens, or the “direst customer service” positions.

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by Anonymousreply 198October 27, 2020 4:29 PM

but what if you work at Chanel or LV? How much do those retail queens make?

I know many friends in college who waited tables at all kinds of places...some places are huge with lots of staff and they pool their tips and split evenly...i am not sure if i'm remembering this correctly. and they have to tip the bar backs as well.

by Anonymousreply 199October 27, 2020 4:45 PM

Judge not lest you be judged. Not everyone who makes a lot of money is a good person. Many are users and abusers.

There is nothing wrong with making an honest living doing something others might scorn. Waiting tables in particular is more lucrative than retail.

A related field are jobs with sales commissions. Some who sell estate, insurance, or other high ticket items can make millions.

People are needed to do all sorts of jobs. What I find a disgrace is that companies and corporations, who can well afford it, do not pay workers enough to live on, let alone save for retirement.

by Anonymousreply 200October 27, 2020 6:31 PM

Waiters in very upscale restaurants make good money. Apart from their salary and benefits they get substantial tips—$13,000 in one case that I know of. Fine, it was from a drug dealer and it had to be shared with the rest of the staff, but still.

by Anonymousreply 201October 27, 2020 7:49 PM

A friend of mine waited on Mark Cuban many, many years ago. Mark only had a few drinks and the bill came to less than 30. He tipped 100 cash.

by Anonymousreply 202October 28, 2020 12:16 AM

I was a bartender at Indochine in NYC for a couple of years. I made on average $700 a night and this was in the 90s.

When I bartended a few times at the Roxy, I could make up to 1200 in a shift.

by Anonymousreply 203October 28, 2020 12:42 AM

Were/are you hot, r203?

by Anonymousreply 204October 28, 2020 1:04 AM

R199 - I have had friends at Chanel, YSL and Tom Frod. I would say the average is around 100K with some making a lot more. People in these stores don't just fold jeans, they are constantly reaching out to their clients with new collections, and competing against other sales people. You keep client files on everything - birthdays etc.

by Anonymousreply 205October 28, 2020 5:39 AM

Louis Vuitton sales associates do not make commission. FYI.

by Anonymousreply 206October 28, 2020 7:27 AM

Did some of you work at ‘Jeffreys’?

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by Anonymousreply 207October 28, 2020 9:40 AM

“Were/are you hot, [R203]?“

Well other people said I was hot, so yeah, I suppose. I’m a Brad Pitt type. But pretty boys really don’t age well and I’m no exception. I definitely look my age (47). Thankfully I stayed out of the sun, so my skin isn’t too bad.

by Anonymousreply 208October 28, 2020 2:20 PM

I still find you hot, r208.

by Anonymousreply 209October 28, 2020 10:12 PM
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