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Average American has $90,460 in Debt!!

This is crazy! If everyone is in that much debt how in the heck do you save for retirement?

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by Anonymousreply 112Last Tuesday at 4:26 PM

That includes mortgages.

by Anonymousreply 110/17/2020

Non mortgage debt is the only interesting or relevant number.

by Anonymousreply 210/17/2020

That's pretty much Trump's debt divided by 350 million.

by Anonymousreply 310/17/2020

Better question is who has a mortgage that low?

by Anonymousreply 410/17/2020

Mortgage $120k, car $20k, CC $0. Nothing I can’t handle. $90k seems about right.

by Anonymousreply 510/17/2020

AND grossly obese. You forgot to add obese OP.

by Anonymousreply 610/17/2020

My student loans alone are over $70k and that is after I've paid half of them off. I will never have enough to retire (oh, and I am obese R6).

by Anonymousreply 710/17/2020

I have zero debt except for a mortgage on a rental property I inherited (it's around $100K; worth >$600K) and even though that's higher than your average, I think I'm MUCH better off than at least 90% of Americans.

by Anonymousreply 810/17/2020

R8 stop bragging

by Anonymousreply 910/17/2020

OP, the numbers in the article don't add up.

GenX total: 135,831

breakdown for GenX: credit cards: 8,215 auto loans: 21,570 mortgage: 238,344 personal: not mentioned student loans: 39,981 HELOC: 49,221 total GenX: 357,331 (plus personal loans)

$357,331 is more than $200,000 higher than the $135,831 they give for total GenX average debt.

by Anonymousreply 1010/17/2020

Many feel rich, when in point of fact they're debters. Very little is often owned outright. It always surprises me how many spend financing fancy cars when they shouldn't afford them. Better to save your money, and buy a used car. Mortgages are somewhat the same; I've known several young people with two mortgages. Very little down payment, and very little security.

by Anonymousreply 1110/17/2020

Counting two bills that arrived yesterday for municipal fees and groceries bought Thursday, my total debt is about a hundred dollars.

by Anonymousreply 1210/17/2020

It's silly to include secured debt like a mortgage alongside unsecured debt like credit cards and signature loans.

by Anonymousreply 1310/17/2020

Average NON-mortgage debt is $38,000, for Americans, according to this Motley Fool article.

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by Anonymousreply 1410/17/2020

I have a $450k mortgage in a house I bought for $155k. But the house is now worth $1.3M.

by Anonymousreply 1510/17/2020

Then WTF are those fatties smiling?

by Anonymousreply 1610/17/2020

R15, do you live in that house or rent it out? How did the mortgage get to $450,000?

by Anonymousreply 1710/17/2020

And debt from medical expenses not covered by health insurance

by Anonymousreply 1810/17/2020

I live in it. I took a second mortgage & added onto it, with a great room, a 3rd & 4th bathroom, a basement apartment, a heated pool & a deck. My 95 year old MIL lives in a house with no mortgage that is worth $750k. I could drop dead tomorrow, but odds are my husband & I will outlive her & inherit her house, which we will sell. Her house is in an extremely desirable area for rich immigrants who will immediately knock it down & replace it with a multi million dollar monstrosity.

by Anonymousreply 1910/17/2020

R15 your house sounds wonderful! I love to swim too! Can I come over?

by Anonymousreply 2010/17/2020

Why would you get a mortgage for 450K? Why not just pay off the house and have a clear 1.3M?

by Anonymousreply 2110/17/2020

Why do you think mortgage debt doesn’t matter?

We’re heading into a long recession. You’ll see how much it matters

by Anonymousreply 2210/17/2020

From R19's response, I'm guessing the $450K mortgage loan was used, in part, to pay for improvements on the house.

by Anonymousreply 2310/17/2020

[quote] Why do you think mortgage debt doesn’t matter?

R22, I see your point. Mortgage debt skews the numbers because real estate prices vary so greatly from place to place. You might be $600,000 in debt (mortgage), but maybe your property can sell for a lot more than that, if push came to shove.

by Anonymousreply 2410/17/2020

They are in debt because they can’t stop eating chimichangas

by Anonymousreply 2510/17/2020

Oh, thanks, R23. i actually didn't see that R15 had explained further @R19. I posted after I had read R15.

by Anonymousreply 2610/17/2020

I owe about $90 more on the mortgage, but have about $1.25 million in retirement accounts and cash, plus the equity in my home, so it's not a big deal. I paid cash for my car so have no car loan debt and I pay off my credit cards in full every month.

by Anonymousreply 2710/17/2020

I have no debt but I don’t own any property. My parents are leaving me a condo worth $1 million.

Most people I know that have mortgages will never pay them off. They take out second mortgages and loans etc, and have high credit card debt.

by Anonymousreply 2810/17/2020

The Gen X group is screwed.

by Anonymousreply 2910/17/2020

^^^ No one should make a big deal about $90. You can get more than that from an ATM.

by Anonymousreply 3010/17/2020

Will interest rates ever go up? It’s way too easy for people to take on enormous debt.

by Anonymousreply 3110/17/2020

The APR for credit cards is around 14%. It’s why Americans are going broke.

by Anonymousreply 3210/17/2020

[quote]Will interest rates ever go up? It’s way too easy for people to take on enormous debt.

True. You see, if you shoot pool with some employee here, you can come and borrow money. What does that get us? A discontented, lazy rabble instead of a thrifty working class. And all because a few starry-eyed dreamers like Peter Bailey stir them up and fill their heads with a lot of impossible ideas.

by Anonymousreply 3310/17/2020

I don't think most Amurkans can get credit cards because they miss one paycheck and they're in a mile-long line for free food.

by Anonymousreply 3410/17/2020

Does anyone here have over $25k in credit card debt? Why?

by Anonymousreply 3510/18/2020

I bought something on eBay from Canada. I’d bought the same product for years & it was fine. This time it got intercepted in Buffalo. UPS showed up at my door telling my husband I needed to pay @ $50 in import tax on the delivery. I told UPS to shove it & refused delivery. UPS came after me. They handed my case to a collection agency which made robot calls every day. Seriously? This is 2020, not the 1960s. Nobody feels harassed by robit calls anymore, dude. We expect them on our landlines.

The collection company sent me a letter telling me I had 30 days to respond in writing, so I did. I wrote “I never accepted a package or any kind of merchandise from UPS that had a fee on it. Therefore I can’t pay a $50 fee, since I have no merchandise. No merchandise, no fee. That’s how capitalism has always worked in my lifetime”.

I got a robot call saying “due to the current national crisis, all debts have been forgiven.” Haven’t been contacted since.

Was it my letter, or has the collection company actually forgiven all debts because of the crisis?

by Anonymousreply 3610/18/2020

Saying mortgages “don’t count” as debt is a bit like saying a pre-payout 401(k) “doesn’t count” as an asset.

IMHO they both “count.”

by Anonymousreply 3710/18/2020

Here’s an economist saying all debts should be forgiven in order to avert a financial depression. The practice goes back to pre-biblical days.

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by Anonymousreply 3810/18/2020

[quote]IMHO they both “count.”

They do but they are so large they distort the picture. And there really is a substantive difference between a mortgage and, e.g., credit card debt and student loan debt.

by Anonymousreply 3910/18/2020

Interesting. From R38:

[bold] Brancaccio: [/bold] And I just learned this in preparation for talking with you today, professor, they did a version of a debt jubilee in the years that followed the Second World War in Germany?

[born] Hudson: [/bold] Yes, that was the economic miracle. And Germany canceled all debts except for the debts that employers owed their employees. And everybody kept a minimum balance. And it was easy for the allies to cancel the German debts in 1948, because most debts were owed to the old Nazis, or the people who had been Nazis, or to banks that were part of the Nazi regime. So the Allies didn’t want to let the creditors, who were the old Nazis, have power over the coming German democracy. So they canceled the debts, and Germany, as a result, its industry and its families were debt free, and that’s what enabled it to recover. And that was the essence of the German economic miracle: the debt cancellation. Right now, America’s economy is strapped. America could have another economic miracle by writing down the debts.

by Anonymousreply 4010/18/2020

Sorry about the “bold” error. Got distracted & hit send.

by Anonymousreply 4110/18/2020

A lot of debt is because we buy stuff we want, not stuff we need.

I see poor families where each room has a TV, each kid has an iPhone, each parent has a car. I don’t blame them so much because they’ve likely never been taught financial management. It’s appalling that schools don’t teach it as a basic living necessity

by Anonymousreply 4210/18/2020

[quote]Here’s an economist saying all debts should be forgiven in order to avert a financial depression. The practice goes back to pre-biblical days.

I've spent the majority of my life being financially responsible. My only debt is for my mortgage which I will pay off long before I retire. I paid off my graduate school loans within five years by NOT spending money and living within my means. I take vacations, but don't finance them with credit cards - I don't have any credit card debt. In other words, I do not live outside my means, I saved money by being responsible so that I could weather crises, like this current situation.

Forgive debt - no way. I'm not rewarding people for living beyond their means. Medical debts - perhaps. Cars, credit cards, Heloc, personal loans, student loans - not a chance in hell.

by Anonymousreply 4310/18/2020

A mortgage is most definitely debt. It’s a loan that you are paying back every year with interest. You never truly own your home if you have a mortgage because the bank or lender will repossess the home if you stop making payments.

by Anonymousreply 4410/18/2020

Uh, maybe forgive student loans but all debt? No. People will turn right around and max out their credit cards again.

by Anonymousreply 4510/18/2020

I must not be an average American 🤫

by Anonymousreply 4610/18/2020

I know someone who takes yearly vacations using home equity loans. I don't understand it.

by Anonymousreply 4710/18/2020

[quote] Forgive debt - no way. I'm not rewarding people for living beyond their means. Medical debts - perhaps. Cars, credit cards, Heloc, personal loans, student loans - not a chance in hell.

So you’d rather a worldwide depression than *proven* sound economic policy?

We did it for Germany after WW2 & it was brilliant. It disenfranchised the entire former Nazi apparatus & gave west Germany a reason to turn away from the USSR & gave them a way to rebuild their country, instead of doing the same thing that was done in WW1 - demanding crushing debt from Germany to the Allies - which was the direct cause of WW2.

[quote] [bold] Brancaccio: [/bold] I mean, it’s quite a cost to this. Will any lender ever lend another penny after this?

[quote] [bold] Hudson: [/bold] Of course. Lenders will always begin lending money as long as they see that there’s a normal ability to pay. The problem is that somebody has to lose when the debts can’t be paid. And the question is who should lose? Should it be the poorest people, should it be the wage earners? Should it be the small businesses, or should it be the banks? Well, one way or another, it has to be either the banks, or else the government will simply create the money to reimburse the banks. But in terms of justice, the banks have made an enormous amount since 2008. They were bailed out in 2008, their net worth and their stocks have soared in value. So, logically, the banks should lose something and bear some of the costs. And the government can simply pay for the cost just as it pays for military expenditures, or for Social Security, or anything else. The government’s able, simply, to print the money. What makes it hard today is that the debts are owed to the banks, and to the landlords, and to private creditors, and they’re very politically powerful. So this is going to be the political struggle or conflict that is unfolding in the next few months in the United States.

by Anonymousreply 4810/18/2020

Welcome to the new Chase Q Card! 0% interest for the first year with no credit limit!

(34% APR for year two, to help us find JFK, Jr.)

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by Anonymousreply 4910/18/2020

Only $90k including mortgage? We are in good shape, America!

by Anonymousreply 5010/18/2020

I know someone who has taken out equity loans to pay for her mom’s nursing home. Doesn’t that seem risky?

by Anonymousreply 5110/18/2020

r48, why not just give $x thousand to every citizen, just like the Covid stimulus $1200 that was done a few months ago? People can use it to pay off whatever debts they have, and anyone who is debt free can use it to buy something, with a multiplier effect throughout the economy.

by Anonymousreply 5210/18/2020

Not sure how best these calculations are made... but it seems like a mortgage debt should compared to equity in the house. We "owe" $350k on a house valued at $800k. So would our debt for these best be $350k or zero.

by Anonymousreply 5310/18/2020

Equity is a mirage. It only ceases to be debt if you pay off the mortgage or sell the house.

Sounds like people are using equity loans to finance a lifestyle or need they cannot afford from savings.

by Anonymousreply 5410/18/2020

R51. That sounds risky to me. They could pile up a lot of debt if she lives a long time. I hope they have enough for their own old age.

by Anonymousreply 5510/18/2020

[quote] Equity is a mirage. It only ceases to be debt if you pay off the mortgage or sell the house. Sounds like people are using equity loans to finance a lifestyle or need they cannot afford from savings.

Agree. Unless you cash out and move to a location where your money goes further.

by Anonymousreply 5610/18/2020

[quote] Sounds like people are using equity loans to finance a lifestyle or need they cannot afford from savings.

Sounds to me like R15 is using equity as an investment to increase the value of their property & create potential future rental income from the basement apartment.

by Anonymousreply 5710/18/2020

R54 Are you a proponent of the gold standard? What is an asset? If savings can be eaten up by runaway inflation, are savings a mirage too?

by Anonymousreply 5810/18/2020

R58, I think the point is that equity, *in the house you live in*, is a mirage. If it's an investment property (something that you rent out 100% or can flip), that's a different story.

by Anonymousreply 5910/18/2020

Savings are real. Equity is paper. There is nothing wrong with equity but it is not the same as cash or other tangible assets. Many people sell their homes at a loss or barely make any money from it.

by Anonymousreply 6010/18/2020

If you've got property in a desirable area, I think you can rely on selling for a decent amount. Last year, my grandmother's house was sold. Desirable area, house was single-wall construction. Very decent price.

by Anonymousreply 6110/18/2020

Slip off your pants and listen to me fellas

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by Anonymousreply 6210/18/2020

[quote] I think the point is that equity, *in the house you live in*, is a mirage.

Not if you bought an underpriced house in the Hamptons with a good deal of land during a recession & you plan to sell it at retirement .

by Anonymousreply 6310/18/2020

I’m relying on the equity value do my house to fund the bulk of my retirement. I use an amount that is 20-25% less than current market value to be safe - though appreciate it’s a risk.

by Anonymousreply 6410/18/2020

I have zero debt as of two months ago. I always lived below my means while I watched friends struggle to own houses, new cars, vacations, etc. and go further and further into debt. I had student loans that took a very long time to pay off (18 years at 9% interest). My biggest vacation was a week in Hawaii 20 years ago and mostly just little trips to Vegas here and there.

I have one CC that gets travel miles. I use that for all my purchases now, then pay it off every single month. I plan on starting to travel when the pandemic ends (IF it ends). I never bought a house because I couldn't afford it and most people I know either lost their houses in the crash of 2008 or they are in debt up to their eyeballs because they just had to have a house.

I live in a tiny, 400 sq ft. guest house in Los Angeles. I pay $690 per month plus utilities and yes, the house is not in great condition but I've been here for 20 years. Planning on moving soon as I can finally afford a bigger place and I finally have a really nice savings built up. I'll be renting, but I prefer that to buying (don't have enough saved for a down payment anyway). Los Angeles is so over priced in housing it's crazy. All the one bedrooms I'm looking at are over $2000 per month. I plan on spending the rest of my life living at my means instead of below it.

by Anonymousreply 6510/18/2020

[quote]I know someone who has taken out equity loans to pay for her mom’s nursing home.

Nursing homes are covered by Medicare, so assuming she's eligible, he shouldn't be paying anything.

by Anonymousreply 6610/18/2020

[quote]Average American has $90,460 in Debt!!

I told you I was above average!

by Anonymousreply 6710/18/2020

R65 $690 for a studio/guest house in LA is cheap. what part of town?

by Anonymousreply 6810/18/2020

Having a mortgage is an investment though, in some ways. Assuming you're able to make the required payments, at some point that house is going to be paid off. And then your monthly housing costs become zero... allowing you to spend that money on other things, or save, or retire.

by Anonymousreply 6910/18/2020

[quote]why not just give $x thousand to every citizen, just like the Covid stimulus $1200 that was done a few months ago? People can use it to pay off whatever debts they have, and anyone who is debt free can use it to buy something, with a multiplier effect throughout the economy.

Yeah, if only people had voted for the Presidential candidate who proposed that exact idea.

by Anonymousreply 7010/18/2020

Credit card debt is the absolute worst. The interest rates are so high that you can almost never pay it off, short of winning the lottery or getting a big inheritance. And it affects your credit score, so you're also at a disadvantage if you want to take out a mortgage or get a car loan...you're going to get a higher interest rate that compounds the problem. Bottom line, if you don't have the cash to pay off something within a month, then you can't buy it. Period.

by Anonymousreply 7110/18/2020

R68, North Hollywood. My friend owns the house and when I first moved in, it was $500. I have a big yard but the house is old and in bad shape.

by Anonymousreply 7210/18/2020

I feel like we are the Titanic about to hit the iceberg. For no apparent reason - other than easy credit for corporate stock buy backs - the stock market keeps going up. Soon millions more Americans will lose their jobs and default on rent or mortgage payments. Nothing feels like it’s on solid footing.

by Anonymousreply 7310/18/2020

[quote] Having a mortgage is an investment though, in some ways. Assuming you're able to make the required payments, at some point that house is going to be paid off. And then your monthly housing costs become zero...

Yes, that would be the goal. Your monthly costs wouldn't really be zero if you factor in property taxes and / or condo maintenance fees. But that's a good point.

by Anonymousreply 7410/18/2020

Consumers overspending on credit cards is propping up the economy. Thanks America!

by Anonymousreply 7510/18/2020

I'm about 9K in debut and I swear to God, I'm owed about $5500 for work I've done as a freelancer.

If that would come in, it would be such a boost. I'd put the money in my checking account, give it a day to clear and then click away on my computer and blast this debt in half.

I make about $500 to $750 extra each month once my bills are paid. So I know I can knock off the rest in about 5 months. Maybe less.

by Anonymousreply 7610/18/2020

Why is that family so fat? All of them are really fat!

by Anonymousreply 7710/18/2020

[quote]I’m relying on the equity value do my house to fund the bulk of my retirement.

Why can't you use a little self-control and save cash for your retirement instead of spending it all?

by Anonymousreply 7810/18/2020

I owe about $70K on my mortgage. It's a condo and only worth ~160k though it's in a desirable area in my city. It's got a lot going for it but it's an older (1954) property in a city that values everything shiny and new. I think my HOA and taxes are now more than my mortgage payment but it will be paid off in 6 or 7 years (I'm 64yo). On the plus side, I took a payout on my company retirement and that combined with my 401k now amounts to ~660k.

by Anonymousreply 7910/18/2020

Having a mortgage is an investment though, in some ways. Assuming you're able to make the required payments, at some point that house is going to be paid off. And then your monthly housing costs become zero...

I agree but that's if you bought the house when you were young. I'm 51. If I bought a house now, I'll be dead before it will be paid off. No point in buying for me. Housing market is going to crash BIG time next year when the effects of the pandemic start hitting. It will make 2008 seem silly. All that equity will be gone faster than you can imagine. Rents are already dropping because people are leaving for less crowded areas and can't afford the prices anymore in most large cities. The depression is coming. Cash will be king.

by Anonymousreply 8010/18/2020

R80 15 year mortgages now. You could be paid off and "relatively" young, at 66.

by Anonymousreply 8110/18/2020

[quote]Housing market is going to crash BIG time next year when the effects of the pandemic start hitting. It will make 2008 seem silly.

That's the time to buy. Housing prices will drop, and interest rates will be dirt cheap. Assuming you have a good credit score and have some cash for a down payment.

by Anonymousreply 8210/18/2020

It isn’t clear how they determine what the “average American” is.

I have a $250,000 mortgage at 3% on a condo I paid $166,000 for, 25 years ago. It’s worth about $1,100,000 today. I could pay off the mortgage using my savings, but I prefer to invest that savings in the stock market, where I earn considerably more than that 3% the mortgage costs me. Someday, when I sell, I can then payoff the mortgage with savings, or with the profit I make in the sale.

Besides having the money in cash rather than paying off the mortgage gives me more flexibility with my finances. I know a lot of people prefer to pay their mortgage off, but it doesn’t bother me at all.

by Anonymousreply 8310/18/2020

Very similar situation with me Pierre. A 3% mortgage is practically free money IMO.

by Anonymousreply 8410/18/2020

You can find mortgages for even less now at 2.5%

by Anonymousreply 8510/18/2020

Same here. I have a low-rate mortgage mortgage that I refinanced back in 2009. I could pay off it off today, but I have money invested in the market where I'm getting 25%+ rates of return right now. Yes, that's going to end when the stock market crashes, but there's no reason to pay off the cheap mortgage right now.

by Anonymousreply 8610/18/2020

R85k I’ve thought of that, but there’re fees and/or points. So, it can take a year or two at the lower rate to breast be even and start saving money. The last time I refinanced, I figured it will take me two years to start making a profit. Since I’ve been here for 25 years, it seems likely that I’ll still be here to profit from it.

by Anonymousreply 8710/18/2020

It’s still a loan and you are in debt but thanks for sharing.

by Anonymousreply 8810/18/2020

"That's the time to buy. Housing prices will drop, and interest rates will be dirt cheap. Assuming you have a good credit score and have some cash for a down payment."

I have a 786 credit score but not enough $ for a down payment in California. I JUST paid off all my debt a few months ago and have been saving a lot, but it's no where near what I need to have for a house. Plus, I don't like the idea of getting a house only to not be able to afford to live without going into debt again. I have way too many friends who are struggling in that scenario. A house is a thief.

by Anonymousreply 8910/18/2020

I can’t get a guaranteed 3% return. I thought about getting a mortgage - but I think saving 3% - or 2.7% - is worth paying cash if you can. I don’t trust the stock and bond market right now.

I may not be rich or have a ton saved for retirement - but I love not living with debt. If I need to sell my house in old age and rent, I’m fine with that.

by Anonymousreply 9010/18/2020

R31

Yes, they will, and the devastation will be life-changing.

Too much debt, too little growth, and a Federal Reserve that keeps printing money= Venezuela.

by Anonymousreply 9110/18/2020

[quote]Better to save your money, and buy a used car.

I have zero debt, so I am financially responsible in the frugal to thrifty range. I was looking for a car a few years back and looked everywhere for a decent used car with around 40,000 miles or so. There was literally nothing that wouldn't cost me nearly the price of a new car. It was ridiculous. The only way to get a low price that would beat the new car pricing was to buy something with 70,000-100,000 miles on it. That's just stupid. I keep my cars forever, so a new one it was. I just don't think the used car thing stands anymore, especially if you're going to keep it. This also might change now if the economy crashes to the point where tons of cars are repossessed and the used car inventory explodes.

by Anonymousreply 9210/18/2020

R73

An excellent explanation in charts.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 9310/18/2020

R80

Areas outside cities are booming.

This will hollow out the cities.

by Anonymousreply 9410/18/2020

I ruined my credit as a teen in the 90’s over about $400, and let it sit for two decades, paying cash for everything. When I met my husband it was the first thing he wanted fixed. A gym had billed me $1500 and it fell right off my report when contested because they went bankrupt.

I have a score of about 780 now and look back and thankful now that bad credit kept me from digging it worse during my gogo boy years. All I wanted back then was credit so I could spend. All I want now is to make sure it’s zeroed out every month!

by Anonymousreply 9510/18/2020

Oh hi Zerohedge @ r93!

Say hello to Tyler Durden for me!

by Anonymousreply 96Last Monday at 6:23 AM

R89, excuse me if you know this already, but when I was young, my peers would often buy “starter houses”, which were decent houses but not anything the owner intended or hoped to be their “forever home”. After sometime, maybe 3-5 years, you’ve establish or maintained good credit and hopefully, have some equity in your house and it’s risen in value, thus allowing you to buy your “forever” home then.

Housing doesn’t always increase in value. The 2008 crash was almost completely national. But there were local examples of this, too. The Dakotas boomed when fracking was new, but low gas prices now have hit the Dakotas hard, and I would expect housing there to suffer today. Boston home prices fell in the recession on 1988-1992. Houston had falling housing prices in the recessions of 1983.

However, you can’t go through life without encountering risk. There’s something called “opportunity risk”, which is the risk that you outlive your savings by not taking advantage of lucrative investments throughout your life.

So, I would encourage readers to consider a starter house, if you can afford it, with the intention of trading-up,at a later date. Just make sure it’s something that would be acceptable to stay in, if you have to live there longer than you originally plan, if circumstances require that.

by Anonymousreply 97Last Monday at 9:50 AM

[quote]Forgive debt - no way. I'm not rewarding people for living beyond their means. Medical debts - perhaps. Cars, credit cards, Heloc, personal loans, student loans - not a chance in hell.

[quote]So you’d rather a worldwide depression than *proven* sound economic policy?

From stupid anti-vaxxers to idiot anti-lockdown people, I am so tired of being held hostage to the stupid of other people. Setting aside whether I agree that it's a "proven" sound economic policy, it is ridiculous that the adults, once again, have to pay for mistakes and poor judgment of stupid people.

As for a worldwide depression, China begs to differ...for now at any rate.

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by Anonymousreply 98Last Monday at 11:29 AM

R97 The trouble, Pierre, is that first-time buyers today don't want starter homes. If you're a seller and fix/paint/replace everything, stage the place for $5-6K, price it right and it'll be shown over the weekend and sold over asking on Tuesday by noontime.

Offer buyers today's version of a starter home, a place they can live - everything works but isn't 2020-shiny/shiplap/open plan/bowls for sinks - but where they'd have to do the updates as they can afford them, then offer it at a price that reflects the cost of the upgrades but allows the buyer to get what they want and watch it sit there on the market for weeks before you have to drop the price.

Is it because first time buyers don't know how to fix things or won't? That's how it works here: if it's not move-in ready it doesn't sell.

by Anonymousreply 99Last Monday at 12:14 PM

"Is it because first time buyers don't know how to fix things or won't? That's how it works here: if it's not move-in ready it doesn't sell."

So buy a house that needs fixing? Where does one get the money to fix things? I don't even have the money for a down payment, let alone another 100 grand to bring a house into a good enough condition to live in. I know nothing about plumbing, I paint like shit, and I can maybe hammer a nail in without it bending.

You left out the part about needing parents who can lend you the money (my parents don't "give" anything. It would be a loan and they would charge interest but since they, too are poor, it's not happening ever).

I have no hope of owning a house, ever in California which is where I have to be to find work.

by Anonymousreply 100Last Monday at 12:23 PM

I wouldn't have the time nor the inclination to do a major renovation. Renovations sound like a nightmare, unless you have a separate house you can live in while the renovation takes place. Also, if you work full-time, you'd probably still want to be checking in to see how things are going. (Did the workers show up, etc.) That sounds just too tiring, unless you had a partner who could do all of that for you.

by Anonymousreply 101Last Monday at 12:38 PM

I have friends with two houses (city and weekend homes) and they are pretend rich. Barely getting by but they have to be A gays, so they take on a lot of debt. Vacations on credit cards etc.

by Anonymousreply 102Last Monday at 2:30 PM

I bought my house when the market crashed in 2010. It needed a ton of landscaping and cosmetic work and upgrades. I got a great price on the house which has since almost doubled in value. I made a triage list of immediate fixes and since I had no money left after the down payment, rolled up my sleeves and got to work. There are YouTube videos for everything and you rent tools you need for short term projects. I lived with a 1950s kitchen and it’s 1980s appliances for six years until I had the vision and money for the kitchen I wanted.

I was also in my 40s when I bought my first home and tired of renting for over two decades. I was willing to live with ugly until I could fix it or afford to pay someone to fix it.

And having spent the past eight months mostly confined here, there is no place else I would rather be.

by Anonymousreply 103Last Tuesday at 7:01 AM

[quote] Forgive debt - no way. I'm not rewarding people for living beyond their means. Medical debts - perhaps. Cars, credit cards, Heloc, personal loans, student loans - not a chance in hell.

R43, what other people do with their money is none of your business. Do you lecture SNAP recipients about what they put in their shopping carts?

by Anonymousreply 104Last Tuesday at 10:14 AM

R103, good for you that you could fix up that house yourself, and that you got a good price! Enjoy!

Did you have a lot of experience prior to doing the DIY stuff?

by Anonymousreply 105Last Tuesday at 11:02 AM

[quote][R43], what other people do with their money is none of your business. Do you lecture SNAP recipients about what they put in their shopping carts?

LOL - I don't care what they do with their money. If you want to go into debt that's your business. You want to live like that, go ahead. You want to buy garbage food with SNAP, go ahead.

I'm simply not going to fund paying off that debt for you. Do you think it just magically goes away, silly child.

by Anonymousreply 106Last Tuesday at 11:18 AM

R104 if the government is going to print more money to cover the cancelled debts as the article suggests, then it is our money.

by Anonymousreply 107Last Tuesday at 11:20 AM

R105, just yard work. I had a lawn mowing business from 13 - 18 and helped my dad with our yard. I actually enjoy it, it’s a great physical and creative outlet. Having outdoor space is what got me out of the city after 20+ year back to the burbs I fled at 18.

As for home repair, I had no prior experience. Assembling IKEA furniture was intimidating. But there is literally a YouTube video for everything. My dad helped me a lot the first couple of years, would talk me through things by phone, and showed me how to do Sheetrock and plastering. You learn because you have to! And there is a lot to be said for sweat equity in your own house.

by Anonymousreply 108Last Tuesday at 11:42 AM

R65 regarding looking for a one bedroom, do you think the prices will be going down? It seems like a lot of people are moving out of LA. Maybe supply will outstrip demand and prices will go down. Hopefully!

by Anonymousreply 109Last Tuesday at 12:03 PM

[quote] But there is literally a YouTube video for everything.

Thanks, R108. I used YouTube videos to learn how to replace the ice maker in my refrigerator. (Still required some improvising, though). Also learned how to rewire a lamp. Be careful, though. The video (lamp rewire) with the most views actually had some incorrect info about the difference between the two wires.

by Anonymousreply 110Last Tuesday at 12:17 PM

r109, yes, the prices are starting to go down in LA. But not by much...yet. I think next year will be the crash.

by Anonymousreply 111Last Tuesday at 3:10 PM

[quote]if the government is going to print more money to cover the cancelled debts as the article suggests, then it is our money.

No, r107, it’s the government’s money. You are not the government. Your name is not on the account. It’s the Treasury Secretary whose signature is reproduced on every bill, not yours.

No citizen can claim to have more of a right to tell the government how to spend its money than any other citizen, no matter how much (or how little) he or she pays in taxes. How you think the government should spend its money is no more or less valid than how any other American thinks our government should spend its money.

We all want more spending in some area that directly affects us, be it education, healthcare, defense, infrastructure, or something else entirely. Debt cancellation is simply another way some people want the government to spend its money.

by Anonymousreply 112Last Tuesday at 4:26 PM
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