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Most NYC Firefighters Who Retired Last Year Got $100,000-plus Pensions

[QUOTE]40 of the 491 retirees landed gold-plated pensions of more than $200,000 a year, according to the study. The largest went to Assistant Chief James C. Hodgens, who was eligible to collect $282,476 a year.

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by Anonymousreply 17210/22/2020

And you point is OP?

by Anonymousreply 110/11/2020

These overly generous public sector pension plans will destroy cities and states. This is an enormous cost burden for NYC and it doesn't do anything for the quality of life in the city. I'm all for people like firefighters getting a good pension but there should be a greater contribution from the employee. They and other public employees would never get this kind of benefit in the private sector.

by Anonymousreply 210/11/2020

Our tax dollars at work! Yet we cannot get universal healthcare.

A relative is a retired fireman, he owns tons of property and an expensive home in the Hamptons. People from countries have no idea a blue collar job in the US can garner a worker millions.

The disability angle is usually scam, my relative claims a disability, yet is always out golfing and playing tennis.

by Anonymousreply 310/11/2020

People from OTHER countries have no idea a blue collar job in the US can garner a worker millions.

by Anonymousreply 410/11/2020

[QUOTE] And you point is OP?

I wasn’t really aiming to make a point, R1. Just shocked at the amounts, more than anything.

by Anonymousreply 510/11/2020

These people run INTO burning buildings. I dont see the problem.

by Anonymousreply 610/11/2020

It is a dangerous job.

by Anonymousreply 710/11/2020

why begrudge these guys

by Anonymousreply 810/11/2020

Obama gets $300,000 for a speech.

by Anonymousreply 910/11/2020

THIS is why it pisses me off when cops are worshipped as heroes who sacrifice their lives out of altruism. NO! They are being paid by US to do a job for 20-25 years and then kick back at 50 years old as MILLIONAIRES. The incomes they are guaranteed for as long as they live until the day they AND THEIR SPOUSES die - even if they live for 50+ years - is worth millions. Most of us would have to save $2 million+ to have anywhere near the retirement benefits / peace of mind they have.

by Anonymousreply 1010/11/2020

Ok, don't have police and firemen if you don't like the cost. They are unionized you know; so some of you are complaining about the union.

by Anonymousreply 1110/11/2020

R9, you're such a fucking idiot. Holy shit.

by Anonymousreply 1210/11/2020

R12 Michelle gets $250,000 per speech.

by Anonymousreply 1310/11/2020

While I admire firefighters, let's be honest: I don't even think it's in the top ten of most dangerous jobs and they mostly sit around, stand outside waiting to be worshiped, go turn on the hydrants around the neighborhood to clear out the sediment or take the truck to go grocery shopping. At least that's what I see in my neighborhood and I live near two firehouses. I see them grocery shopping more than I do putting out house fires.

by Anonymousreply 1410/11/2020

Of course they're complaining about the union. That's the point of the thread.

I think it's great that they have good pensions. People in the private sector used to have good pensions too until the rich Republicans took them away.

As for what former presidents and their wives make for giving speeches, I don't really care.

by Anonymousreply 1510/11/2020

R11 - I agree with you about unions. We all should have unions and those benefits. But given most of us don’t, I’m sick of cops being treated like they are saints - while teachers are bitched at and treated like servants.

by Anonymousreply 1610/11/2020

R13? WTF does that have to do with pensions that are negotiated between unions and cities which taxpayers get no say in?

Whatever the Obamas get paid for speeches is not coming out of the taxpayers' pockets. It's what people are willingly paying to see them speak. If you're concerned about such things, why not how Trump jacks up the rates on his properties only when HE comes to visit so that Secret Service have no choice but to pay and then pass that onto taxpayers. Taxpayers getting gouged by that gypsy family.

by Anonymousreply 1710/11/2020

R11, your case isn't helped by the fact that the NYPD union endorsed a corrupt pile of shit like Trump. It doesn't say much about law and order when they worship someone who has respect for neither and has literally bad-mouthed anyone in law enforcement who doesn't do HIS bidding.

by Anonymousreply 1810/11/2020

I'm SICK of these threads with a link to a New York Post article. The OP is trying to get DL people to subscribe to the Post.

by Anonymousreply 1910/11/2020

The Post online is entirely free, R19. There is nothing of which to subscribe.

by Anonymousreply 2010/11/2020

[quote]They are unionized you know; so some of you are complaining about the union.

Indeed, R11. HOWEVER, the firefighters' and police unions are essentially the only unions with that level of pensions/retirement benefits, thanks in large measure to the general public and their elected representatives doing their damnedest to KILL all other trade and teachers' unions.

And if a cop or fireman lives and works in a "Right to Work" (i.e., anti-union) state, their unions should be busted just like everyone else's.

I don't get why people are rabidly anti-union while at the same time fellating all cops and firemen.

Personally, I think any garbagemen who work at it 30+ years should get $100,000 pensions. Spend a lifetime carting off other people's shit, and smelling it all the while you're doing it? That's next-level difficult imho.

by Anonymousreply 2110/11/2020

If you know anything about how they cushion that amount with bullshit OT, you could only respect them for being shady as hell. No exaggeration.

by Anonymousreply 2210/11/2020

All you need is to be rescued once by a fireman and you wouldn't care how much money he got. I was rescued from a fire by a fireman and I think fireman should get everything free in life. A fireman's job is the highest job one can choose. You also find very very few bad ones in the barrel too. They go to work everyday knowing they could die for a complete stranger.

by Anonymousreply 2310/11/2020

LAPD don’t get six figures pension

by Anonymousreply 2410/11/2020

The garbagemen get six figures a year, like Michelle five time a day?

by Anonymousreply 2510/11/2020

^at the lesser yrs of svc tiers..Fire is same

by Anonymousreply 2610/11/2020

[quote] All you need is to be rescued once by a fireman and you wouldn't care how much money he got. I was rescued from a fire by a fireman and I think fireman should get everything free in life. A fireman's job is the highest job one can choose. You also find very very few bad ones in the barrel too. They go to work everyday knowing they could die for a complete stranger.

If you look at the actuarials, policeman and fireman tend to live longer than teachers. They also have few deaths from work.

How much do we give war veterans?

by Anonymousreply 2710/11/2020

Teachers pensions should be at the same levels as firefighters and cops.

Putting up with everyone's crotchfruit every day, tolerating stupid parents endless bitching, getting blamed for parents failing to properly raise their own children, I wouldn't do it. They should get great pensions forever.

by Anonymousreply 2810/11/2020

You know what was really crazy--a few years ago, I remember reading that the head carpenter (or stage hand or something) at the Met Opera made 650k per year.

Obviously, like any other institution, unions can get into the wrong hands. Let's remember they were created for safe conditions and fair wages.

by Anonymousreply 2910/11/2020

Hoffa in heaven

by Anonymousreply 3010/11/2020

Don’t forget - if they can get a dr to give them a disability claim, their pensions are tax-free or partially tax free (50% tax free, 75% tax free, 100% tax free). They start looking for disability when they’re in their 30s by showing up in the ER with some bogus on-the-job injury, then go to a dr to start the paper trail (Xrays, CTs, MRIs, etc) that will lead to their disability. And give them plenty of time to appeal when they feel their 40% disability isn’t high enough.

by Anonymousreply 3110/11/2020

They are heroes.

by Anonymousreply 3210/11/2020

Trump has fucked blue collar workers and this country out of billions... and that was before he was even president.

by Anonymousreply 3310/11/2020

If they're hot, I don't care. But if they're ugly, it's a waste of money.

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by Anonymousreply 3410/11/2020

I used to volunteer at our small city opera. All the talent (no big names) came from NYC. All the backstage workers were union and made more than the singers or musicians. One of the requirements was to have a fireman backstage during a performance. I saw the fellow when he introduced himself to the stage manager. He was wearing his dress uniform which I thought was fitting. He was sat in the wings so he could watch.

by Anonymousreply 3510/12/2020

The problem most people have with the civic pension system is the overloading of over-time to increase your pay the last 5 years. I believe most pensions are based on your last 5 years of income.

Overtime SHOULD NOT BE PART OF THAT. It's an obvious scam - and many of these police and firemen are Republicans.

In terms of 'heroes', yes - sometimes they put their lives on the line and very infrequently there are injuries or deaths. It's not 1900 anymore. But, for the most part, most firemen work two 24 hour shifts a week, mainly hanging out at the firehouse all day and sleeping there. It's not like a nurse or doctor shift. They then get FIVE days off a week.

R35 - agreed, the unions are what keeps theater prices skyhigh. It's disgusting. Unions are to protect workers, not to take advantage.

I'm pro-union most of the time, but we have to accept that there are excesses that do more harm than good - particularly in the public's perception.

by Anonymousreply 3610/12/2020

I have no problem with unions - all workers should be unionized, in my opinion - but the only places where unions are getting these big benefits are in the public sector. Corporations have successfully excluded unions, by and large, often with the connivance of the states (Right to Work laws). In many European countries, unions work with corporate management, rather than in opposition to them.

by Anonymousreply 3710/12/2020

OP, this should be the model for all frontline employee jobs, like the people who have been delivering your groceries and packages and working in pharmacies and warehouses during The Plague.

by Anonymousreply 3810/12/2020

A decent pension is a good thing. But $100K plus is exorbitant amount, especially since they will also be receiving social security benefits.

by Anonymousreply 3910/12/2020

R39 are you sure they still get SS? I understood most govt. retirees get the pension in lieu of?

by Anonymousreply 4010/12/2020

The overtime is bullshit. In most other countries, these jobs don’t pay six figures or even close.

by Anonymousreply 4110/12/2020

Good. They should get generous pensions. Which are nothing when you consider the vast income inequality.

Unionized professional workers like cops, teachers, miners, truckers, all should get this kind of retirement.

by Anonymousreply 4210/12/2020

[quote]These overly generous public sector pension plans will destroy cities and states.

This is indeed a looming crisis, and it's going to come to a head sooner rather than later as cities and states face a precipitous drop in tax revenues due to coronavirus disruptions of business.

by Anonymousreply 4310/12/2020

It’s not just NYC. The ones in small, inexpensive towns in New England collect big time. To me, it’s even more disgusting to collect $200k in a small town than NYC.

by Anonymousreply 4410/12/2020

Over generous? We agree!

by Anonymousreply 4510/12/2020

The starting salary for an EMT in NYC is $35,000 and they save lives every day.

by Anonymousreply 4610/12/2020

The ultimate irony is these jerk-offs then retire to low tax states so the nasty state tax man doesn't "steal" too much of their money.

by Anonymousreply 4710/12/2020

[quote]This is indeed a looming crisis, and it's going to come to a head sooner rather than later as cities and states face a precipitous drop in tax revenues due to coronavirus disruptions of business.

While this horrible Covid pandemic has been going on Gov Cuomo has quietly cut back many needed social service programs. He claims he's Democrat, yet acts like a ReThug. He's a sneaky bastard.

Meanwhile, in NY state, the wealthy who were smart enough to move their assets, are on Medicaid. They are in nursing homes and those who are still able to remain in their homes, are having their live-in home aides covered by Medicaid.

These wealthy people are basically getting all their healthcare needs covered by taxpayers. This is not a myth or exaggeration. I have several friends from wealthy families whose parents are now on Medicaid. The rich, and upper middle class, sure know how to bury their assets and game the system.

by Anonymousreply 4810/12/2020

My father was a retired firefighter. Not in NYC, of course. He retired in the 80s, and even though the city fucked with some of the pensions long time retirees were getting, between pension and SS he was making more a month than I bring home. He had many close calls over the years and saw many coworkers die, so yeah, he fucking deserved that money.

He died last year and thankfully had ZERO debt I had to deal with.

by Anonymousreply 4910/12/2020

I think hot young fireman should be forced to produce a really nice (nude) calendar every year early in their careers to insure they get a pension later in life. Same for the cops too. I would be willing to personally fund a couple of deserving candidates after a lengthly screening process.

by Anonymousreply 5010/12/2020

[quote]Meanwhile, in NY state, the wealthy who were smart enough to move their assets, are on Medicaid. They are in nursing homes and those who are still able to remain in their homes, are having their live-in home aides covered by Medicaid.

I don't know how it works in NY but in my state being on Medicaid gets seniors shunted into less desirable nursing homes -- I can't believe rich people would endure such sub-standard conditions.

by Anonymousreply 5110/12/2020

Strangely, I can't who this is trying to OUTRAGE - the anti-government people who don't want to pay taxes or the anti-government people who hate police, firemen, and that sort.

Or, whether this is an anti-democrat tirade to get people whipped up against firefighters - you may as well kick a baby in the face as go off on firefighters.

Or, whether this is an anti-rethug tirade to get people to be outraged about where their tax dollars are going.

Frankly, it could be operating on so many different levels that it reflects an increased sophistication that is more troubling than how much pension firefighters get.

by Anonymousreply 5210/12/2020

My father was a retired NYC firefighter who died in 1966 after 26 years on the force. My mother received his monthly pension of 113.66. The rules substantially changed in later years.

by Anonymousreply 5310/12/2020

[quote]I don't know how it works in NY but in my state being on Medicaid gets seniors shunted into less desirable nursing homes -- I can't believe rich people would endure such sub-standard conditions.

Not true at all, at least not in NY state. For a few months last year, an aunt was in a nursing home in NYC, a place which costs $450 a day! The stories I heard from the patients blew my mind. In most nursing homes, a good 95% of the full time patients are on Medicaid. Most of these full time patients have wealth. The ads for 'elder law' are all over the place, these lawyers know how to move rich peoples assets into trusts.

Healthcare plans/Medicare only covers up to 100 days per year, if you even get that many days.

The scams these nursing homes pull to get patients families to pay out of pocket are well known. The nursing home social workers are basically told lie to insurance companies, by not giving the full reasons why a patient is there. Most of the time they claim a patient is solely in their facility for 'physical therapy', which, in turn, the health care plans cut a patient off quickly, usually after a month.

If a patient needs to stay permanently or beyond the amount of day your healthcare plan allowed, you either have to pay out of pocket or plan way ahead to go on Medicaid. Which means all assets must be moved five years in advance of needing to be in a nursing home full time. Otherwise, you are screwed.

A neighbor's family lost all their assets, then, the nursing home tried to go after their house, where the patient's elderly wife was still living! Nursing homes are never happy with a patient's Social Security and pension, they want all their assets. The government could give a shit that nursing homes are bankrupting families.

Believe me, these places are filled with savvy rich people who scam the system. Meanwhile, hard working middle class people are the ones losing most of their assets. It goes without saying, poor people who are already on Medicaid, are also in these places.

Nursing homes don't care where the money comes from, as long at they get paid. Nursing homes are yet another horrible for-profit business.

Most people need to research this subject, people never know what the future brings. Even some younger people are in these places, due to a horrible car crash or complications from surgery, and especially now with what's going on with so many social service programs being cut left and right, most Americans will lose their assets due to these places.

The wealthy are always on top of things before everyone else is, they are the biggest scammers.

by Anonymousreply 5410/12/2020

R52 Or maybe just a situation that seems to be fucked-up from several different angles.

by Anonymousreply 5510/12/2020

It's always been a well known fact, at least to New Yorkers, that most city and state union workers pad their pensions by putting in a lot of overtime during the last few years of their jobs. That should be allowed, but it's been going on for years.

As for the NYPD, it's also a well know fact, many cops retire after putting in only 20 years on the job.

by Anonymousreply 5610/12/2020

Most big city firemen and cops are complete fucking scum. Angry, conservative, racist (even among minority cops themselves - i heard black cops say the nastiest shit about asians once when I was waiting for a friend in Chinatown). Oh and are they LAZY. They want to get their 20 years in, inflate their yearly salaries and then retire to some cush braindead security job.

The New Yorker just did a terrifying article about the NYC police union and furious PBA windbag Pat Lynch - the biggest racist of them all.

I have family working in city government here in NYC and it is widely known that the massive public sector layoffs coming won't touch the cops or firemen. They are being asked to find other "efficiencies" within their departments. Meanwhile, my husband - a tenured clinical social worker for over a decade in the trenches of the public school system - is getting notices that his head is on the chopping block.

Both departments need to be overhauled from the top down.

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by Anonymousreply 5710/12/2020

Foks, it's FIREFIGHTERS, not firemen! Get with the 21st century.

by Anonymousreply 5810/12/2020

Meant to post, "That should NOT be allowed, but it's been going on for years."

by Anonymousreply 5910/12/2020

Pat Lynch...what a perfect name for that racist piece of shit...isn't even a native New Yorker. Send him back to his home state.

I cannot even look at that ugly loudmouth bastard.

by Anonymousreply 6010/12/2020

[quote]Good. They should get generous pensions. Which are nothing when you consider the vast income inequality.

They VOTE for income inequality, so no, I don't cheer them on getting rich on bullshit OT and padding their hours by sitting on their asses.

R60, I can't stand Lynch, but he was born in Queens. What made you think he wasn't a native? Maybe you meant the mayor.

by Anonymousreply 6110/12/2020

The one that killed me was the small town cop who got a $500k payout at retirement PLUS a huge pension because he scheduled himself for overtime (he was the chief, he made the schedule).

The $500k payout was because he took no sick time or vacation time. He lived next door to the police station. Meanwhile, where I worked, we were forced to use our “personal time” (vacation, sick time, etc) within a year or lose it. All of us had to live far from where we worked and have a long, grueling commute because we could t afford to live near our jobs. The guy also had bought some shacks that baymen had lived in & defaulted on, renovated them and rented them out as the small town went from being a fishing & farming area to being a resort. After retirement, he demolished them & had them rebuilt as mansions & made a tidy million or so in profit.

Now some people would say “He’s smart.” Like Trump. But he took advantage of things that were meant to give a decent living to peoples they weren’t me at to make one a multimillionaire. And like, Trump, he took his father”s jib because his father had been the chief before him.

by Anonymousreply 6210/12/2020

I don’t understand letting them retire early. Fine - if the work is too dangerous they can transition from in the field to a desk or support position. But if they want a pension they should have to remain on the job until the full retirement age.

by Anonymousreply 6310/12/2020

Firefighters are the majority of second home owners in Breezy Point. Kind of ironic the place was ravaged by fire in Superstorm Sandy. I’m sure they all cashed in on their insurance policies & built even bigger, uglier houses in their place.

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by Anonymousreply 6410/12/2020

R9 and R12 are obviously trumpsters racists. Do you know what other major political figures receive for speaking engagements? The Minimum is 100K and up. Ever check on what Ronald Reagan received for speaking in Japan. I don't care how much they make in the market place because these fees are paid for by PRIVATE money. I know that may not register in your bigoted brains, but the fact is I am not paying taxes for their speaking fee.

by Anonymousreply 6510/12/2020

A lot of firefighters got in on the LLC thing years & years ago. Some of them have siblings who are bankers, stock traders, etc. a group of them form an LLC, buy a crap house, gut it, renovate it themselves & flip it. Firemen know how houses are built. They have to study structural requirements & local building codes. I knew FDNY who were doing this in Queens in the early 90s. Over the years they made plenty of money & would then demolish the ugly houses & hire construction workers to rebuild the houses in an ugly, ostentatious way. BTW, I’ve lived in Manhattan, Queens & LI all my life & can instantly tell whether a new McMonster house has been built by a foreigner or if it’s been built by an Italian American, an Irish American or Italian/Irish American.

by Anonymousreply 6610/12/2020

That's why I don't consider it serving the public like they made some sacrifice. They're serving themselves and if you live in NYC, you know the cops are fucking useless these days. Every other day, I see drag racers on the belt parkway. I never saw that before. And worse, I've seen HWP ignore it. I hate the mayor, but I'm not going to blame him for fucking cops and their dereliction of duty because they're entitled little cunts. And it doesn't help when you can't stand the sight of them because many of them are fat as hell.

by Anonymousreply 6710/12/2020

R65, how am I a racist when I was calling out R9?

by Anonymousreply 6810/12/2020

I think it should be a rule that if they collect a pension they should have to stay in the state the pension is from . I cant tell you how many new yorkers are down here in florida while collecting huge pensions from their home states . Why shouldnt they have to use their money in the communities that are paying them ? Our former sheriff (now congressman) retired from the police dept ,is collecting that pension,got rehired and retired again,collecting that pension on top of the 1st one and is now collecting congressional pay. So hes effectively triple dipping , or will be when his ass gets voted out of office (wich I hope will be this election) . Thats just not right.

by Anonymousreply 6910/12/2020

I think it should be a rule that if they collect a pension they should have to stay in the state the pension is from . I cant tell you how many new yorkers are down here in florida while collecting huge pensions from their home states . Why shouldnt they have to use their money in the communities that are paying them ? Our former sheriff (now congressman) retired from the police dept ,is collecting that pension,got rehired and retired again,collecting that pension on top of the 1st one and is now collecting congressional pay. So hes effectively triple dipping , or will be when his ass gets voted out of office (wich I hope will be this election) . Thats just not right.

by Anonymousreply 7010/12/2020

R66 - why wouldn't you go into house-flipping when you have so many days off?

That's the other thing - unlike policemen who have to work regular shifts - firemen get so many days off a week that many have 2nd jobs. Imagine going into work twice a week for 24 hours - many of those hours are downtime, including 8 hours of sleep. They're not constantly going on calls, unlike police.

But there's this faux-patriotism and public support of our 'heroes' - police, firemen and military - the vast majority of whom do not get into life-threatening situations. And they get great benefits and pensions.

It's a jobs program for white guys with limited education. And they get more than they deserve.

by Anonymousreply 7110/12/2020

They deserve the money. If they passed the firefighter exam they deserve the job and the benefits that come with.

by Anonymousreply 7210/12/2020

There are more volunteer firefighters than paid firefighters in this country. I wonder what the former think of the latter's lavish pensions.

by Anonymousreply 7310/12/2020

Are volunteer firefighters primarily in rural areas? I've always wondered why they would volunteer instead of get paid. Hey, why don't we have volunteer cops too? And volunteer teachers, nurses, etc. while we're at it?

by Anonymousreply 7410/12/2020

R72 - no one is denying their regular salaries and benefits. The point is the excessive run-up of overtime which pads their pensions for 25-30 years.

R73 - good point.

by Anonymousreply 7510/12/2020

All of that money is going to end up in being spent and taxed in Florida. It's a total waste for NY state.

by Anonymousreply 7610/12/2020

TV commercials are running promoting Home Health care provided by family members who are paid You must be on Medicaid. Just guess how many people are ripping off the system claiming their daughter is a Caregiver, while she's at a full-time job . Meanwhile, the average middle class family has to pay for hourly care at home .

by Anonymousreply 7710/12/2020

R54, before you get Medicaid in a nursing home, you have to "Spend Down" your trust to around $12,000, so there is no way to hide money in a trust and still get Medicaid,

by Anonymousreply 7810/12/2020

For what they have to do, it's fine. The problem isn't the firefighters getting this level pension, the problem is all the other people in the public (and private) sector who don't and never will. It astonishes me how people don't want other people to get good benefits, instead of saying "well if the firefighters get this much, maybe we should organize at my workplace and get similar benefits too." Especially teachers in public school, sanitation, etc. as discussed here.

by Anonymousreply 7910/12/2020

Many go into public service jobs because of the benefits and retirement pension, which is great. However I just think $100,000 or more a year is too much.

by Anonymousreply 8010/12/2020

Maybe R80 but in NYC where your rent or mortgage plus maintenance is likely to be $3-4K/month for a place large enough to house a family of 3 or 4, after taxes $100K isn't so much.

by Anonymousreply 8110/12/2020

R81, most of them live in jersey or LI

by Anonymousreply 8210/12/2020

I work for NYC govt as an attorney. I have a few more years to go, but my estimated pension will be less than $100k. I am more than pleased with the amount and also have social security and my own investments, but it makes me cringe to see the FDNY's pension numbers. Stronger union. Sadly, many FDNY are pretty much jerks.

by Anonymousreply 8310/12/2020

[quote]Are volunteer firefighters primarily in rural areas? I've always wondered why they would volunteer instead of get paid. Hey, why don't we have volunteer cops too? And volunteer teachers, nurses, etc. while we're at it?

Yes, there are primarily in rural areas. My uncle was a volunteer firefighter and EMT for 20 years in a small town in New Mexico for 20 years. He was recruited by his brother-in-law who served on the same volunteer squad. Here in New Mexico, volunteer firefighters do a get small monthly pension from the state if they serve 10 years and participate in 50 % of the calls. My uncle gets like $200-250 a month.

In some rural counties, there are deputy sheriffs which are like volunteer cops who assist in patrolling towns and aiding paid police officers.

by Anonymousreply 8410/12/2020

[quote]Are volunteer firefighters primarily in rural areas? I've always wondered why they would volunteer instead of get paid. Hey, why don't we have volunteer cops too? And volunteer teachers, nurses, etc. while we're at it?

Yes, there are primarily in rural areas. My uncle was a volunteer firefighter and EMT for 20 years in a small town in New Mexico for 20 years. He was recruited by his brother-in-law who served on the same volunteer squad. Here in New Mexico, volunteer firefighters do a get small monthly pension from the state if they serve 10 years and participate in 50 % of the calls. My uncle gets like $200-250 a month.

In some rural counties, there are deputy sheriffs which are like volunteer cops who assist in patrolling towns and aiding paid police officers.

by Anonymousreply 8510/12/2020

I'm R14. I just went grocery shopping at Stop n' Shop and there they were shopping. No fires around. No cats in trees.

by Anonymousreply 8610/12/2020

I have no problem with this. Public school teachers should get this as well.

by Anonymousreply 8710/12/2020

Have any of the people saying that all teachers and firefighters should get 282k pensions every tried to balance a city budget?

Or faced a public meeting of angry homeowners to tell them that prop taxes and millage are going up by 1000000%?

by Anonymousreply 8810/12/2020

Why would any retired public employee get $100,000 a year in pension when most people will be lucky to get $30K in social security to live on?

by Anonymousreply 8910/12/2020

You guys are cunts. How can you be dem if you don't support the unions?

So you want everyone to make min wage working for amazon and Uber etc and work until you die coz you can't afford to retire?

These are heroes who run into burning buildings to save you fat asses, cut you out of car accidents etc. They deserve it!

by Anonymousreply 9010/12/2020

There’s plenty of middle ground between minimum wage and $200,000 yearly pensions.

by Anonymousreply 9110/12/2020

Fair wages and safe conditions are what unions are for.

Not gold plated pensions for people who run into burning buildings twice during a 20-year career.

There are plenty of guys under fire every hour of the day in Fallujah who walked away with nothing.

by Anonymousreply 9210/12/2020

Im probably biased because I work for the government, but this is not really newsworthy to me. These people make sure you can pick up a phone and get life saving services 24/7, in a major world city at that.

While you are out enjoying your life on nights, weekends and holidays, there is a government worker somewhere toiling away, many for far less, to make sure you have essential public services. If there is a natural disaster, we can't flee, we report to work. I have worked with many who have done it for decades. Most people have very little knowledge of the logistics, resources, and man power involved to make these things happen, yet they can say for certain how much a lowly public servant should get paid. Perhaps those who complain need to live a third world country and let us know how that goes.

by Anonymousreply 9310/12/2020

Just lugging the equipment around is brutal on the firefighter’s body. They retire in their 40s with knee problems, back problems, shoulder problems, etc. That’s not taking into account any injuries from actually going into a burning building. Smoke inhalation, burns, etc. It’s not an easy job.

by Anonymousreply 9410/12/2020

If you think those numbers are crazy, know this- as soon as those retirees put their papers in, they ran right to social security claiming injuries from 9/11. Yes- they worked their 20 years, doing all that OT, retired and then claimed injuries. So now they will get their 3/4 salary tax feee plus social security. Social security hands out disability to FDNY like lollipops, while other agencies have to jump through hoops to get it for real injuries. Many do not even do a full 20 years and get these numbers. They’re all union guys but they love Trump.

by Anonymousreply 9510/12/2020

Yeah, I figured they were right up Deplorable ally. Just like cops and veterans. All peas on the same pod.

by Anonymousreply 9610/12/2020

In their defense, they need all of that money what with all of the cheating on their first wives, so lots of alimony to be doled out.

by Anonymousreply 9710/12/2020

There has to be incentive to do a job like this. I wouldn't want to be a firefighter or a cop, especially in a city like NYC. While the rest of us sleep and then sit around on our asses, they are on call in case they need to drag our fat asses out of a burning building. No one in this post is going to sign up to do that without incentive.

Public school teachers should get the same. The reason they don't? Teaching is still primarily a woman's job. If more men were public school teachers, they would probably fight for -and receive- a better pension plan. This country still gives zero fucks about women.

by Anonymousreply 9810/12/2020

[quote]most of them live in jersey or LI

Are you under the impression that NJ or Long Island are cheap places to live? They're not. There is nothing affordable that is also decent anywhere in the vicinity of NYC, especially if you have a family and care about schools, safety, etc.

by Anonymousreply 9910/12/2020

R16, plenty of teachers in New Jersey make similar pensions and they never risked their lives as firemen and police. These salaries and pensions are not everywhere. They're in big cities where it IS dangerous to police and there are numerous fires.

Check out the New Jersey state websites where they actually list pensions and salaries.

Anyone bitching about these salaries can strap some giant hoses to their shoulders and enter burning building or face a population which is heavily armed and then drop your guard for one minute during a traffic stop or a domestic violence call.

by Anonymousreply 10010/12/2020

R100, do you how many NYPD have died in the line of duty over the past 70 years? 331. Do you know how many NYPD there are right now? About 40K. Over 70 years, 331 POs have died.

Stop pretending there job is that dangerous because it isn't and certainly not in NYC these days. And when you tell people "You go do it," WTF does that even mean? You think people choose not be a PO because it's "dangerous"? It attracts arrogant, power-hungry douchebags who want easy benefits.

They're more likely to die from COVID than some shoot-out. And that isn't hyperbole. Google it. More have died from COVID than any other cause combined.

by Anonymousreply 10110/12/2020

This thread reminded me of trump complaining about the CEO of the Tennessee Valley Authority making over 8 million a year, when someone heading a private sector company of the same magnitude would have a salary that totally eclipses that. And furthermore the TVA is an enterprise agency that exists off its revenues, not taxes.

People have the same attitude about public servants, they expect private sector level service, but want the people doing the jobs to work for a fraction of what private sector gets paid. And then wonder why American government is crumbling and gone to shit.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 10210/12/2020

My first partner was a LAFD from the late 80s until just after we met in 1997. When he came out to his fire station, his captain "forced" him to retire by essentially having him fake an injury. Better to have the gay dude retire, than have a fag around the station. He was devastated. He was only his mid-30s and just loved his job. However, when he found out he'd be making around 90k a year from his pension? He got over it.

I was only 19 when we got together and man did we get in to trouble together for the next decade or so!

by Anonymousreply 10310/12/2020

I'm all for unions, public and private, and they should have good living wages, decent benefits, and fair pensions. Receiving $100 - 200K pensions is absurd, especially since few people make that money while they are working let alone in retirement. Expecting the city to pay for outrageous pensions is unsustainable unless you keep raising the sales tax and property taxes continuously..

by Anonymousreply 10410/13/2020

City and state administrations liked to offer generous pension benefits in lieu of big salary increases during contract negotiations, because the cost of pensions was kicked down the road, and didn't come due until they were no longer in office. That enabled them to avoid raising taxes during their terms. Once the genie was out of the bottle, every public sector union wanted the same deal.

by Anonymousreply 10510/13/2020

I wouldn’t have a problem with these pensions IF our elected officials would pass laws holding private sector businesses to similar standards—guaranteeing private sector employees the right to overtime pay, a set schedule, sick time, a nice pension at the end, and generally humane treatment. But they don’t—they’re terrified large corporations will take their shitty jobs overseas and they don’t want to piss off the small business community. But these same government officials are more than happy to make unsustainable promises to police and fire unions because taxpayers don’t have a seat at the bargaining table. They figure the financial shit won’t hit the fan until they’ve retired from public office and taken their own pensions to go live in Florida.

by Anonymousreply 10610/13/2020

That’s a nice setup. Shoulda married a hot firefighter instead of a Ponzi artist.

by Anonymousreply 10710/13/2020

The Obama's get 100s of thousands per speech and I get 20 bucks and a cigarette for blow jobs.

by Anonymousreply 10810/13/2020

[quote]People have the same attitude about public servants, they expect private sector level service, but want the people doing the jobs to work for a fraction of what private sector gets paid.

/thread

Some of these posts are Boris-level, anti-union trolling.

by Anonymousreply 10910/13/2020

Bravery should be rewarded.

by Anonymousreply 11010/13/2020

R110 please! They are compensated for their “bravery”. They wouldn’t do it free let me tell you. Or for minimum wage. Bravery my ass!

by Anonymousreply 11110/13/2020

They choose to go into their profession knowing all the dangers .Do you really think its for humanitarian reasons ? They know they can retire in their early 40s and live very well for a very long time on taxpayers dimes. If they offered police and firefighters the same kind of pensions that teachers get you would have a staffing shortage . Id also like to point out that very few "regular" people have the luxury of a pension anymore .

by Anonymousreply 11210/13/2020

If you think it is easy work and free money, then get off your fat, gay ass and take the firefighters exam yourself.

Well?

by Anonymousreply 11310/13/2020

“If you think it is easy work and free money, then get off your fat, gay ass and take the firefighters exam yourself.”

It is easy work 90% of the time. And why would we take the test? Firefighters are homophobic, racist, mouth-breathing, Trump-voting cunts.

by Anonymousreply 11410/13/2020

R14/R86 here: I shit you not. Had to go shopping again tonight and again these guys showed up with their purty truck to grocery shop and a couple of them had their masks down and they weren't even hot enough to justify showing their faces. And no reports of any fires or anything. just sitting around shopping and eating.

by Anonymousreply 11510/13/2020

they do more than just run into burning buildings. They also do building inspections, rescue of all kinds etc. Many have 2nd jobs bartending, contracting/construction jobs etc. They do get injured a lot, carrying all that heavy gear isn't good for your back, esp if they have to carry your fat ass out of a burning building down several flights or stairs etc.

by Anonymousreply 11610/13/2020

I greatly appreciate the work firefighters do, I just think getting that much money in pension each year is outrageous.

by Anonymousreply 11710/13/2020

[QUOTE] they do more than just run into burning buildings. They also do building inspections, rescue of all kinds etc.

$200,000 a year pension for building inspections?

by Anonymousreply 11810/13/2020

A lot of arguments singling out a profession because of assumed political beliefs on the part of people in that profession l. I guess as social liberals we’re supposed to be now okay with targeting a profession because we think many of its members don’t subscribe to the same political persuasions as us. Good to know. But reading these comments it’s like we’re supposed to demand these public servants to 1) have the same salary as social workers in office settings, 2) be prevented from moving out of city/ state where they receive pensions, 3) not be allowed to use free time to flip houses or other side income-generating activities, 4) not be able to support or participate in political discourse (unless they’re on our side).

Wow, I’m no fucking Repug or Trumptard but I wouldn’t want to live under the “liberal” society that sets such limits.

I live in California where raging wild fires have been the norm for years. No way would I want a job that has me going into fires risking my respiratory status in the acutely and in the future. Not to mention the possibility of being burned turns me off immensely. I also work in healthcare where over the years I’ve come contact with first responders like cops and firefighters. People like us, we get hazard pay for being exposed to violence/ unpredictability/ disease as part of the job in keeping society running. It’s appropriate that we receive consideration for extra layer of compensation be it salary or benefits.

RNs get exposed regularly to infectious bodily fluids, insane/ violent patients and families, abnormal work hours that wreck havoc on health, and stressors related to healthcare environment today. Similar things apply for first responders maybe to lesser degrees since they’re not at the patients’ side for hours in a shift putting up bullshit. But part of me sympathizes with these first responders. It has little bearing on how I feel about some of their political leanings whether nor not they’re too conservative for my taste.

As someone who also believes in fiscal responsibility in government budgets, there has to be a balance between certain public servants taking advantage if loopholes to increase pensions, and allowing essential public servants good salaries/ incentives to do these potentially dangerous jobs. I agree that $200K yearly pensions and possibility for abuse in disability claims should become transparent to the public since municipal and state pension systems are untenable under the current projections. Keep in mind that these pension plans also apply to government office workers/ nonessential workers whose numbers are greater than firefighters.

by Anonymousreply 11910/13/2020

R119, you're too verbose for me to read all of that, so I'll address your first couple of sentences: When you benefit from something specifically championed by the party you vote against, we have every right to call you out. These guys benefit from having a UNION, yet they vote in such a way that they want no one else being allowed to have that same support system. It's like being an anti-choice Republican and your name is Jason Miller.

Unions are a Dem thing and these guys vote Republican, that is in fact disgraceful.

by Anonymousreply 12010/13/2020

Gynecologists should be the one getting pensions Talk about PTSD. Ick!

by Anonymousreply 12110/13/2020

We are talking about 40 people, in a huge fire force that consists of tens of thousands of employees, responsible for safety of a mega city. The large majority are not receiving this payday.

Do you guys even know what's involved in the delivery of these kinds of services? Im kind of shocked at the ignorance. The assist chief of a emergency management agency in a mega metropolis like New York City is not doing fire inspections. A person in this role is doing specialized oversight and high level government administration, which requires years of experience in the field, and detailed knowledge of the agency operations, interfacing and working with other branches of the city and state government. This person has their own hierarchy of employees that report to them, managers, union staff, in house legal council, supervisors and battalion chiefs and on and on. In the private sector, someone in this role, who has been working for the same company for 30+ years, would receive MILLIONS.

by Anonymousreply 12210/13/2020

[QUOTE] Gynecologists should be the one getting pensions Talk about PTSD. Ick!

They chose to go down that hole. Nobody forced them to breach those walls. One assumes that before entering this field of medicine, they’ll create a list and check all the boxes before jumping in head first.

by Anonymousreply 12310/13/2020

[quote]Just lugging the equipment around is brutal on the firefighter’s body. They retire in their 40s with knee problems, back problems, shoulder problems, etc. That’s not taking into account any injuries from actually going into a burning building. Smoke inhalation, burns, etc. It’s not an easy job.

This is the case with my cousin's husband. He was firefighter for 25 years, but he became a firefighter at 30 after getting out of the military. He has several physical problems related to his job which have taken a toll on him post retirement.

by Anonymousreply 12410/13/2020

What are these physical problems, R124? Are they back related?

by Anonymousreply 12510/14/2020

Fine if the job is physically stressful. Can someone explain why they can’t do desk work for a decade or so after the challenging part is over? Why do they get to retire at 40/50? Can’t they make dinner and clean the firehouse until they are 65?

by Anonymousreply 12610/14/2020

I think you need 20 years on the job to be eligible for retirement/pension. So if you start working at age 20 you can retire at 40.

by Anonymousreply 12710/15/2020

Juiciest scandal  that made the page of a local rag was the scores of FM leaving their families for widows of 911.

these men were assigned to widows in the aftermath of nine eleven and things "just happened'. What man leave his wife and kids or another woman of the same age and BMI and with kids of her own ? One who smells the settlement money she received.

by Anonymousreply 12810/15/2020

Juiciest scandal  that made the page of a local rag was the scores of FM leaving their families for widows of 911.

these men were assigned to widows in the aftermath of nine eleven and things "just happened'. What man leave his wife and kids or another woman of the same age and BMI and with kids of her own ? One who smells the settlement money she received.

by Anonymousreply 12910/15/2020

In my agency, its 30 years of service or reaching age 65. 30 years is an eternity to work for the same employer, if you are lucky enough to live that long. That means many years of dealing with bullshit coworkers you hate, until they either retire or die unexpectedly. The pension is the only thing that makes it worth it. A lot of people retire and die soon after, from cancer or other long term illness. The money goes right back to the state.

by Anonymousreply 13010/15/2020

After 20 years, you'll receive 50 percent of the salary of a first-class firefighter as your pension. Any time put in after 20 years earns an additional 1 percent per six months until you reach your pension cap — 74 percent of your final salary.Mar 7, 2016

just Googled the above

by Anonymousreply 13110/15/2020

R130 When a firefighter dies their pension does not go back to the state if they have a wife or dependents under 18.

by Anonymousreply 13210/15/2020

Meanwhile a teacher in NYC is entitled to 35% of their final salary after 25 years. No overtime bullshit. And each year the teacher's union is beset upon to lower it even more.

by Anonymousreply 13310/15/2020

I don't mind teachers getting paid more. I do mind bad teachers and bad cops and bad firefighters being endlessly defended by their unions. No respect for incompetence being rewarded.

by Anonymousreply 13410/15/2020

Next time the unions come to city council for raises or pension bumps, demand some change in being able to fire bad cops for good. I don't know how to phrase that, but cities have some bargaining power. Use it to improve accountability.

by Anonymousreply 13510/15/2020

I’ve never understood the difference between Hook and Ladder and Engine Company.

by Anonymousreply 13610/15/2020

My pension (nyc govt attorney) is 60% after 20 years or 65% at 25 plus free health care and dental (better than Medicare). Most also invest in a 401K which is not matched and our union dues buys us a small annuity which comes to about $350 monthly. All in all it is better than Fed. Govt. jobs, but nothing like the FDNY or NYPD which has gotten these pensions over decades of fighting politicians who don't want to be called anti police or fire.

by Anonymousreply 13710/15/2020

343 firefighters died on 9/11, they deserve every penny they get.

by Anonymousreply 13810/15/2020

R138 this woman who's photo was iconic died penniless and very ill .Where was her multi million dollar payouts ? What about the 1000s of survivors just like her who suffered after effects of being exposed ? Why arent they being talked about ? No one is saying those firefighters and police werent heroes on that horrific day,but it irks that all the other survivors,the emt's, janitors,receptionists,etc,etc didnt get lauded and lives of luxury afterwards.

by Anonymousreply 13910/16/2020

Oops !

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14010/16/2020

There is a fund where they can claim medical expenses...if they get cancer etc. I've read that people got all their treatments paid for etc.

by Anonymousreply 14110/16/2020

[quote] Fine if the job is physically stressful. Can someone explain why they can’t do desk work for a decade or so after the challenging part is over? Why do they get to retire at 40/50? Can’t they make dinner and clean the firehouse until they are 65?

They want them to retire. They are capped at personnel levels and they need new blood and healthy bodies. Is the pension fund separate from the personnel budget - seems like it would be but I don't know.

In some ways it's like the military. Your work force needs to be deployable to whatever is needed at the time - a gigantic fire spread, 2 full time wars at the same time. If you can't fully function in the main mission then you're expendable. They don't have time to be creating make-work for those who can't carry their full load. I suppose there must be exceptions but they probably need a certain level of completely able-bodied employees. We've had discussions here about the military rejecting or ditching people for medical conditions people argued were work-around conditions. Of course, that's fine for corporations or educational systems but for the military that may have to deploy? That's a different can of worms. Hell this is where I learned about battlefield blood transfusions. Thank you. DL. I suspect a fire department isn't that dissimilar in some aspects. I don't know about ancillary jobs like dispatch and IT work - are they part of the union and do they get the same salary and benefits as firefighters? That wouldn't make sense.

by Anonymousreply 14210/16/2020

R139, how are your examples in any way related to this discussion?

If you'll recall this woman - bless her heart - was running away from the buildings and the firefighters were running INTO the buildings. Same with all your other examples. Also as mentioned above there were funds set up for survivors including businesses that were impacted.

Lots of tragedies in this country and in the world and people affected don't get what 9/11 "survivors" got. Whether the right people got what they needed is another discussion.

Sorry forgot to sign above at R142.

by Anonymousreply 14310/16/2020

R141 That is basically a smallish one-time nominal payment, it can't begin compare to a monthly pension payment or annuities.

by Anonymousreply 14410/16/2020

THiS is how we take on cop entitlement. Someone do the math showing how they make the equivalent of $250k year when all their benefits are added in. Every time someone says “back the blue” - the answer is cut their pension. NOW is an opportunity to final bring fiscal sanity to cop pensions. Defund their insane pensions. Stop attracting white suburban kids who are looking for a blue collar job for 20 years that will leave them set for life - like their father or uncle or cousin.

And stop banning urban kids who were arrested for a few joints in 2000.

by Anonymousreply 14510/16/2020

I agree R145. I hate that they pad their overtime the last year or so to increase their pension. That sounds kind of scammy/grifter-ish to me. Cops and firefighters do it. Not saying that some aren't heroes, etc. but come on...

by Anonymousreply 14610/16/2020

I’m against any instance when people are actively “gaming the system”. Firefighters and police are both notorious for this. For a career that falls under the heading of “public servant” there is very little concern about fleecing the community that pays them.

by Anonymousreply 14710/16/2020

[quote][R54], before you get Medicaid in a nursing home, you have to "Spend Down" your trust to around $12,000, so there is no way to hide money in a trust and still get Medicaid,

Yes, that’s true and not true! 'Spending down' works if you don't have much to spend down. No one spends down a $500,000+ trust. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Look into how eldercare lawyers work and how easy it is for people to set up a trust which Medicaid cannot get at. Wealthy people know all the tricks.

Years ago, my father got one of his sisters on Medicaid, this was before Obama changed the laws to help middle class people and then the rich got on the bandwagon.

My aunt had little savings, my dad spent dad her assets, she got on Medicaid for a nursing home immediately. Yet she didn't need the nursing home until at least the next year. My aunt was able to pay her monthly bills because she lived in subsidized housing where rent is based on income. He income was social security and a small pension, by small, I mean $150.00 a month pension! Not what these NYC workers get!

Spending down only works for people who have $10,000-$50,000 and are willing to spend that down, to $14,000-$15,000, yes, those people get accepted.

The others who are accepted for Medicaid, are people who have wealth, they move their money into trusts. That’s a fact. Everything I posted above is true.

An uncle had his assets moved to his wife's name, then she was accepted into a nursing home. The NY state legal paper for that is called "Spousal Refusal of Support" and it is LEGAL. Then when a wife anticipates needing to enter a nursing home, the money is put into a trust for any children or other family members. This must be done 5 years prior to needing to be in a nursing home facility. For nursing homes, there is always a 5 year loopback on assets.

To me, these are scams, yet they are technically legal. Wealthy people hire eldercare lawyers, move their money into trusts, put their homes under their kids or siblings names. The lookback has remained 5 years.

People with wealth who want to leave the assets to their families, must move their assets far in advance. Especially as they don't know how long they will need to be in a nursing home. Especially if the are close to their family or have a lot of children, these people want to pass their wealth on. My accountant's mom had Alzheimers, she was in a nursing home for 8 years!

The bottom line, savvy people move their assets years before they need to be in a nursing home.

I have no idea if this law is across the US, it likely isn't, especially in red states which have not expanded Medicaid.

by Anonymousreply 14810/16/2020

Ooops, my uncle had his assets moved into his wife's name, then HE was accepted into a nursing home.

by Anonymousreply 14910/16/2020

Community Medicaid is yet another program the wealthy manage to acquire, this is a service is for people who want to remain in their homes and don't want to pay for a home aide. Home aide hourly rates start at $25+. Some elderly homebound people need round the clock care or at least 11-12 hours of care.

This social service covers home aides and any expensive needed medical appliances, as well as adult diapers. The look back period was one month, Cuomo now changed the look back to 30 months. I heard from a social worker relative, the waiting list is now very long.

For people who actually need this service because they cannot afford outrageous home aide rates, you have to wonder why Cuomo changed the Community Medicaid law in the middle of a pandemic. Instead of simply taxing the wealthy in NY state at a higher rate, he cuts back a social service many middle class people in NY surely need..

by Anonymousreply 15010/16/2020

R150, would you know how much private nursing care would cost per hour? In NYC.

by Anonymousreply 15110/16/2020

R46 My parents weren't financially savvy. They sold their home and put the cash in the bank, moved to a 55+ rental community. My father had cancer died within 3 years of diagnosis. They had .$250,000 in assets. My mother went into assisted living 4 years ago @ $60,000/year. Everything will be gone soon and she will go on Medicaid. They will move her to a smaller room for the rest of her life. Compare this to my friends' parents with over $1 M in real estate and assets put into trust. They used cash from a savings account to pay for one year of assisted living, then the father died and the mother went onto Medicaid. She died 3 years later and over $1 M was split with the siblings from the trust. TALK to your parents to avoid my scenario!

by Anonymousreply 15210/17/2020

[quote][R150], would you know how much private nursing care would cost per hour? In NYC.

A friend needed a 24 hour private nurse for a relative, in that case, you'd actually need two nurses to work in 12 hour shifts. She was quoted $440-$500 a day. If that is the case and the person needs private care forever, the person would be better off putting their loved one in a nursing home.

Depending on the state, monthly nursing facility rates range from $10,000 to $14,000 a month! Another friend found an Alzheimers only facility for his mom, it cost $4,900 a month, compared to a regular nursing facility which was $13,500 a month.

With all these worse case scenarios, hopefully people in the US will finally comprehend why we need universal healthcare. Instead of applauding that fool Dump going after the AHCA! If that happens things will only get much worse.

Nursing homes are privately run and make huge profits from peoples misery. Most of the elderly are not engaged, left in dark room and hallways. The nurses and other workers are stressed to the max and underpaid. Of course, these facilities all gladly take Medicaid coverage. Many are owned by foreign entities, I won't eve get into that aspect.

Health care plans, and that includes the Medicare, and your secondary insurance only cover up to 100 days, after that you need to find a way to pay them. If you don't have Medicaid, these facilities go gunning for your assets. Thats why people need to move their money way before they need long term care.

Another option is paying into long term care healthcare insurance. With this type of insurance, if you immediately apply and pay a few premiums, then and expect to enter facility. Like an other insurance, you need to pay years into it before it kicks in.

by Anonymousreply 15310/17/2020

"Compare this to my friends' parents with over $1 M in real estate and assets put into trust. "

This is what we made my mom do. Though not crazy-wealthy by today's metrics, she has a couple of million in assets. A family friend is a lawyer and established a trust for our family. She moved almost everything in there. Though she is 85, she's still healthy and strong ... but i feel A LOT better knowing some retirement home wont eventually get all of that.

by Anonymousreply 15410/17/2020

R154, so basically, by moving her assets, your rich mom will qualify for Medicaid? That's not OK. Anyone having "a couple of million in assets" and getting Medicaid is completely absurd. The laws in the US must change. Of course, they won't, not while the GOP is in power.

How about you mom takes out a third healthcare plan to cover any longterm care costs? She could certainly afford to do that.

I'm damn tired of my tax dollars going to rich people on Medicaid. Fuck that shit!

by Anonymousreply 15510/17/2020

yes, but the look back period is like 5 years now. I took a class in elder law many years ago but the law has since been updated.

by Anonymousreply 15610/17/2020

[quote]yes, but the look back period is like 5 years now. I took a class in elder law many years ago but the law has since been updated.

The look back period of 5 years has been the same for the past 10+ years, at least in NY state it's been this way. Governor Cuomo recently changed the Community Medicaid look back rules, this has nothing to do with nursing home look back time frames.

Community Medicaid is for elderly or disabled people who want to remain in their homes with a home aide. CM covers the home aide fee 100% as well as any medical supplies. The look back was only one month, now it's 30 months. There is a fee for this service $50-$75. Much cheaper than the cost of paying a home aide out-of-pocket.

by Anonymousreply 15710/17/2020

“I'm damn tired of my tax dollars going to rich people on Medicaid. Fuck that shit!“

I’m not moved by your rage. Im ok with her not losing everything she worked her ass for. She has gladly paid a FUCK ton of taxes her whole life (and continues to do so) and considers it patriotic. Now we live in a dire age with a withering middle class beneath a brutally capitalist system. She was hospitalized once 20 years ago with a life-threatening allergic reaction - before she came into some money. We paid $120,000 out of pocket for 7 days of her hospitalization because there was a glitch in her insurance at the time. So overall I sleep well knowing we can make up for some of that. This country should have affordable healthcare for everyone. It’s evil that it doesn’t.

by Anonymousreply 15810/18/2020

Believe that R158 . Even with "good" insurance I had that much owing for 2 heart attacks . I told them to write the rest off or kiss my ass. That was 15 years ago,Im sure now theyd ruin me .

by Anonymousreply 15910/18/2020

[quote]I’m not moved by your rage. Im ok with her not losing everything she worked her ass for. She has gladly paid a FUCK ton of taxes her whole life (and continues to do so) and considers it patriotic.

Who gives a flying fuck what YOU are NOT moved by.

I sure don't think the wealthy, because they're savvy enough to move their millions into various assets, should be 100% covered by Medicaid for their longterm nursing home stays, that is absurd and absolutely wrong!

I'm not talking about people putting $100,000-$500,000 of an elderly person's assets into trusts, that's nothing compared to what the wealthy hide, then are eligible for Medicaid. This scam has been going on for years, rich people know all the scams! Like Dump paying $750 in taxes. It's basically another scam the wealthy have at their disposable.

Meanwhile, hardworking middle class people are told to "spend down" their assets, sell their homes and basically deplete everything they probably assumed would be left to leave their children or grandchildren. Fuck that shit.

Patriotic? WTF are you talking about. My parents were never patriotic. What there to be patriotic about, young Americans dying in wars over OIL?

My parents worked hard, saved and lived their lives. No one who has worked their entire life deserves to be destitute in their old age, to have their assets literally robbed by a predatory healthcare industry. Fuck this country.

by Anonymousreply 16010/21/2020

I hate cops, but this article is similar to ones that are printed at the time of a labor dispute where they publish the wages of the highest earning employees in an attempt to cause public outrage - "those bums are making 100k a year and now they're on strike wanting more??"

by Anonymousreply 16110/21/2020

160: breathe and drink a little oolong tea.

by Anonymousreply 16210/21/2020

A friend retired as a NYC school teacher after 30 years. His pension is $86,000.

by Anonymousreply 16310/22/2020

Why should a person lose everything they have worked for when that person's taxes has paid for benefits for so many who have never done a lick or work and get free housing, food, public assistance, and medicaid from the govt.? Cradle to grave benefits for many of these people, no wonder everyone wants to come from Central America to the US and not relocate to Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 16410/22/2020

R164, you're describing the Hasids and Russians who come here. They get everything for nothing and they actually abuse the system. The Central Americans who come actually work and want to work. They're not standing around Home Depot or the corners in NY for any other reason than wanting to work.

And as far as the wealthy being on Medicare or medicaid. How would you define "wealthy"? If someone's assets -which they worked for and paid taxes on for decades-including home is under $10M, I can't blame anyone for wanting to move assets out of the person's name. You think healthcare/expenses gets cheaper as you get older? The health needs of that person only increase and we don't have universal healthcare. An ambulance alone is hundreds of dollars even with insurance, Should the person go bankrupt and leave nothing for their family so they all have to continue to struggle for assets after their loved one worked so hard? Isn't the goal to make life a little easier for the family who come after you?

by Anonymousreply 16510/22/2020

R165, no I am talking about all of the above. I work in Social Services and there and way too many Central Americans are looking for a free ride. The Central Americans are all fed the same game plan to say they cannot return to their home country because of gang violence, but cannot explain why they didn't request asylum in Mexico or Guatemala. Sometimes they are completely honest and say the US gives more in benefits. Thirty years ago it was the Dominicans coming to the US doing the same thing, many to this day do not speak any English and have been on the govt dole ever since.

by Anonymousreply 16610/22/2020

It’s pretty gross that people are greedy enough to move money in trusts so they can inherit their parents’ money. When your mother dies, you should grieve her death, not be happy for the money you will get. She should pay her medical expenses and you should work for what you want.

by Anonymousreply 16710/22/2020

[quote]It’s pretty gross that people are greedy enough to move money in trusts so they can inherit their parents’ money. When your mother dies, you should grieve her death, not be happy for the money you will get. She should pay her medical expenses and you should work for what you want.

Mary! *snort* Are you lost? You will be more comfortable on a Christian frau messageboard, not here.

by Anonymousreply 16810/22/2020

R167, I see nothing wrong with it if as I said, you're under a certain threshold and actually paid your taxes over the years. And don't assume people don't grieve, but the idea the person should die a pauper having given it all to insurance and drugs and hospitals is ridiculous. Why is it a bad thing to leave a nest egg for your kids and why assume those kids just stop working?

by Anonymousreply 16910/22/2020

r167 is a rage-filled purity queen on the side of shitty insurance companies and their horrible practices. how sad. and boring.

by Anonymousreply 17010/22/2020

I truly believe threads like this are GOP talking points. All workers deserve benefits like this, and let’s face it, because cops and fire fighters are male dominated, they’ve done an excellent job of forcing the union to bargain up with the true cost of living (and above it, so what). Furthermore, think of how many minorities work in these sectors — this literally represents a path out of poverty/lower class to true middle class freedom. We should be fighting for MORE of this, not less. The GOP is thrilled that you’re taking the bait and doing their dirty work for them, they think NO ONE should be comfortable, except for them of course. Sick of the fucking greed of the GOP.

by Anonymousreply 17110/22/2020

"We should be fighting for MORE of this, not less. "

In theory I agree. But cops are assholes and abuse their power, making it very hard to wish them the best. They also ALWAYS vote republican and never defend or stand in solidarity with other unions. And more and more we are seeing police colluding with white supremacists.

Add to this their work slow down in protest against BLM and you have a disgusting, untenable situation.

As for minorities in the police dept, they know which side their bread is buttered. Their silence around police corruption is totally bought and a major part of the problem. They can't say shit or they will be ostracized.

Other public sector unions need to accumulate more power. Other sectors need to UNIONIZE. We just cant sit around and hope the police and fire dept will join the cause. Cuz they wont and absolutely never will.

by Anonymousreply 17210/22/2020
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